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Review: RAAW Madonna V2 - Ready for the Apocalypse

Apr 20, 2020
by Mike Kazimer  



There are companies out there whose catalogs are hundreds of pages long, full of every possible type of bike imaginable. Not Raaw. Their lineup consists of one single model, the Madonna, which first launched in 2017. Version 2.0 came out earlier this year, and while there were a few geometry and frame design tweaks, the overall goal remains the same: to create a tough, functional, and above all, fast bike that can still be comfortably pedaled to the top of wild descents.

The Madonna has an aluminum frame, 29” wheels, 160mm of travel, and was designed around a 170mm fork, although a 180mm fork is a completely feasible option for riders who plan on getting extra sendy.
RAAW Madonna V2 Details

• Wheel size: 29"
• 6066 aluminum frame
• Travel: 160mm rear / 170mm front
• 64.5-degree head angle
• 445mm chainstays (size L)
• 12 x 148mm rear axle spacing
• Price: $4,854.15 USD + shipping
• Weight: 33.4 lb / 15.1kg (size large, as shown)
www.raawmtb.com

The frame only is priced at $2,385, and is available in either raw with a matte clear coat, or black with shiny decals. The Fox Factory model reviewed here goes for $4,780, with parts highlights that include a Fox 36 Factory fork and DPX2 shock, Shimano XT 12-speed drivetrain and 4-piston brakes, and Newman A.30 aluminum wheels.


bigquotesHands down, this is one of the best cornering bikes I've ridden in recent memory. Mike Kazimer





Construction and Features

“Bombproof” is one of those words that gets thrown around all too often in the mountain bike world, but it's an appropriate adjective for the Madonna V2. Just look at the main pivot bearings, or the tall, gusseted headtube. Making the lightest bike possible wasn't really on Raaw's list of priorities, although this new version is 150 grams lighter than the original. Durability took precedence over saving weight, which is why every single pivot has a sealed cap that helps prevent mud and water from getting inside.

There's room for a full size water bottle inside the front triangle, and the two bolts under the top tube can be used to affix a tube or tool holder. Going along with the utilitarian theme, all of the housing is externally routed in order to make brake or derailleur swaps as easy as possible. Other details include a threaded bottom bracket, rubber downtube protector, and 203mm rotors front and rear. It is possible to run a 180mm rotor, but a bike like this deserves all the stopping power possible.

Raaw Madonna V2 review
Raaw Madonna V2 review

Raaw Madonna V2 review
Raaw Madonna V2 review


Geometry & Sizing

Version 2.0 of the Madonna gets a little slacker and a little longer, putting it right in the mix with the latest crop of modern enduro bikes. The head angle sits at 64.5-degrees with a 170mm fork, the reach is 480mm on a size large, and the seat tube angle is a steep 78.2-degrees.

The chainstay length varies depending on the frame size; it measures 440mm on small and medium, 445mm on a large, and 450mm on an XL. Want something shorter or longer? Raaw offers different dropout chips that can be used to increase or decrease the length by 5 millimeters.



Raaw Madonna V2 review

Suspension Design

The Madonna's shock is mounted to the frame in front of and slightly above the main pivot, where it's driven by a beefy aluminum rocker link. There are two different links available – one that's designed for use with a 60mm stroke shock, and the other for a 65mm stroke shock. Both links deliver a 20% leverage rate progression, but the Rocker 60 is intended for riders under 90kg, and the Rocker 65 is for riders above that weight.

What's the difference? Well, the Rocker 60 has a higher leverage ratio, which means that it takes less effort to get the suspension moving, creating a supple initial stroke, while the Rocker 65 has a lower leverage ratio, allowing bigger riders to run less air pressure and have better support.

There's a little bonus feature of the Madonna too – it's possible to run a 65mm stroke shock with the Rocker 60, which results in 171mm of travel. I stuck with the stock 60mm / 160mm travel configuration, but it is nice knowing that the potential exists to turn the bike into even more of a gravity fiend.

Anti-squat sits around 100% at sag in the 32/50 gear combo, and then decreases as the bike goes further into its travel.



Specifications
Price $4780
Travel 160mm
Rear Shock Fox DPX2 Factory
Fork Fox 36 Factory 170 mm Grip2
Headset Acros
Cassette Shimano XT M8100 10-51
Crankarms Shimano XT 170mm
Rear Derailleur Shimano XT M8100 12-speed
Chain Shimano XT M8100
Shifter Pods Shimano XT M8100
Handlebar Acros Alu 780 25mm rise
Stem Acros 40mm
Grips Ergon GD1 Factory Slim Black
Brakes Shimano XT M8120
Wheelset Newmen Evolution A.30 6 Bolt
Tires Maxxis Minion DHF WT 2.5 EXO+ TR 3C MaxxTerra / Maxxis Minion DHR2 WT 2.4 EXO TR Dual
Seat Ergon SM Enduro M
Seatpost Fox Transfer post




Raaw Madonna V2 review







Test Bike Setup

I ran 230psi in the Fox DPX2 shock, which put me at 17mm / 28% sag. Up front, I inflated the Fox 36 to 71 psi and added a few clicks of low- and high-speed compression to suit my preferences. The Madonna is available with either a 50mm or a 40mm stem; after trying both I settled on the 40mm.

I also installed a Float X2 for a portion of the test period, and ended up preferring the feel of the DPX2. It gave the bike a more lively, awake feel; the Float X2 muted some of that liveliness, and made the bike feel a little sluggish on more rolling terrain.

Testing took place on both sides of the border US / Canada border, and included laps on the North Shore as well as plenty of wet, wintery rides near my home in Washington.


Me.
Mike Kazimer
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Age: 37
Height: 5'11" / 180cm
Inseam: 33" / 84cm
Weight: 160 lbs / 72.6 kg
Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Instagram: @mikekazimer

Raaw Madonna V2 review


Climbing


Ok, the Madonna's not exactly light, and that's with regular 'trail' tires. Toss on a set of heavier duty rubber and the number on the scale is going to creep up even further. But you know what? It pedals very well, thanks to the steep seat tube angle and an appropriate amount of anti-squat. The top tube length of 617mm is compact without feeling cramped, and it worked well for my 5'11” height.

There's minimal pedal bob even with the DPX2 in the fully open position, and it's only exaggerated weight shifts towards the front of the bike that'll get the shock to dip into its travel a little bit. I did end up riding with the shock in middle compression setting fairly often, but that was more to increase the amount of support in rolling terrain at slower speeds.

I've seen some online mutterings about steep seat tube angles being a poor choice for flat terrain. I didn't find that to be the case on the mild three-mile approach to my local trails, although the Madonna does have a fairly tall front end and a higher rise bar, which put me in a comfortable, upright position. Also, if you are concerned about a bike's performance in the flats, it might be best to look for something other than a slack, 160mm enduro bike.


Raaw Madonna V2 review


Descending

Hands down, this is one of the best cornering bikes I've ridden in recent memory. The low bottom bracket deserves the bulk of the credit here, and while that might cause a few extra pedal strikes on the climbs, on the descents that low slung stance makes the Raaw an absolute riot when it comes to cornering or carving down the steeps.

It carries speed extremely well – the beginning stroke of the shock is very sensitive, which allows it to quickly get out of the way after an impact. I ended up going up one volume spacer size in the DPX2, from a .2” spacer to a .4” spacer in order to get more bottom out resistance. With that spacer installed and the shock set at 28% sag there was plenty of grip, which came in handy during the slippery, slimy conditions that prevailed during testing, as well as enough support to handle bigger hits without using all the travel.

This Madonna V2 has a tough, sturdy nature to it, a solidness that works well with a more aggressive riding style – if you get lazy it can feel like the bike is taking you along for the ride. Stay alert, take charge, and the Raaw will deliver the goods. I could see going with 165mm cranks and a 180mm fork, changes that would increase the ground clearance and make it even more of a downhill machine.

Raaw Madonna V2 review



Raaw Madonna V2 review
Raaw Madonna
Banshee Titan review
Banshee Titan

How does it compare?

Two aluminum brutes – the Raaw Madonna vs the Banshee Titan. Both bikes have a 64.5-degree head angle with a 170mm fork, and the wheelbase dimensions are only separated by 4mm. The balance of the bikes is a little different, though; the Raaw has a 480mm reach with 445mm chainstays, while the Banshee has a 470mm reach with 452 chainstays. In other words, the Raaw is a little longer up front, and the Titan's a little longer out back.

On the trail, both bikes sit towards the front of the pack when it comes towards taking on big impacts and rough terrain – if you’re the type of rider that likes to let off the brakes and charge right into the chunkiest trails imaginable, these two deliver. The Madonna's lower bottom bracket height is very noticeable, and for me that was the defining characteristic that set them apart. The Titan feels taller both while cornering and in the steeps, while the Raaw sits much lower to the ground. If I had to pick one word to sum up each bike, it'd be 'freeride' for the Titan and 'fast' for the Madonna. At the end of the day, neither bike will hold you back – it all comes down to where your handling preferences lie.


Raaw Madonna V2 review


Raaw Madonna V2 review
Raaw Madonna V2 review

Technical Report

Dropper post length: I'd highly recommend fitting the Madonna with the longest travel dropper post possible. That's due to the steep seat angle - the seat doesn't get as far out of the way when it's lowered as it would on a bike with a slacker seat angle. My test bike came with a 150mm Fox Transfer post (a 175mm post is offered as well), and it wasn't enough drop for my liking, especially on steeper trails.

Tire combo: It's hard to beat the tried and true Maxxis DHF / DHR II tire combo. In this case, I would have liked to see a thicker casing, non-dual compound tire in the rear. Yes, that harder rubber lasts longer tire, but the tire itself isn't going to last that long if there's a hole in the casing. A MaxxTerra EXO+ tire would do the trick, and a DoubleDown version would be even better.

XT M8120 brakes: By now the wandering bite point of the M8120 brakes is old news, but it's worth a brief mention. Theses brakes have almost everything going for them – there's tons of power and the lever shape is excellent, it's just that even with a perfect bleed the bite point can change from one pull of the lever to the next.

XT M8100 drivetrain: With quick, precise shifting, impressive lever ergonomics, and an adjustable clutch the XT M8100 drivetrain is one of the best options currently on the market. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between XT and XTR in a blind test – it's really only the weight and price that separates one from the other.


Raaw Madonna V2 review


Pros

+ Double sealed bearings, high level of attention to frame detail
+ Excellent cornering performance
+ Solid & speedy

Cons

- Not for gram counters
- Low bottom bracket can lead to more pedal strikes than usual
- Limited availability



Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesDon't be deceived by the Raaw Madonna V2's no-frills appearance – there's something very special about this bike. Not only is it build to survive just about anything, its performance out on the trails is highly addictive. The way that it rails turns and smashes through whatever gets in its way more than makes up for any weight related concerns.
Mike Kazimer








323 Comments

  • 155 0
 Pinkbike test: Raaw Madonna vs Privateer 161
  • 8 0
 I would absolutely love to see this.
  • 8 21
flag m4k1 (Apr 20, 2020 at 1:31) (Below Threshold)
 @RAAWMountainBikes: + bird aeris am9
  • 81 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes:

Just wanted to let you know that there are those of us out there that really appreciate the function over form approach to the Madonna. And you pulled it off in a way that (imo) is quite good looking, which is even more impressive. Hats off to everyone you and everyone you work with.

I love the double sealed (and huge) bearings, and external cable routing. I like that you can adjust the chainstay length to find the right length for you (or just play around), and the two rocker options.

Are there any plans to do demos in the US in the future?
  • 16 0
 @ocnlogan: Thank you, stoked to read! Unfortunately not in the near future, but we will be looking for long-term options.
  • 11 5
 Not just trying to pointlessly hate on the RAAW, but comparisons to the Privateer can't be ignored. Both made in Taiwan, very similar outward looks, similar suspension linkage, similar geometry, same customer-direct distribution model, drastically different price with apparently only a few small features and details to differentiate them
  • 5 0
 Yeah. I’m super stoked for Raaw, buuuuuut I got the Privateer instead ☺️ The frame arrived this weekend and it looks absolutely awesome... Hope to hit some (easy) Bavarian trails soon.
  • 11 1
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Any chance a 27.5 bike is in the works?
Bike looks rad BTW!
  • 86 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Us too! It's humbling to even be compared to such a class-leading bike.
  • 33 1
 @IllestT: I bought a Madonna V1 right at the beginning of 2019 and have to say that my "customer experience" has been ABSOLUTELY fantastic.

I bought a complete FOX and Shimano XT build and find that the value is absolutely great! There are NO compromises and weak parts on the build(ok, I swapped the rear tire to a 3C Maxxterra DHR once the Dual compound was half worn).

The frame has a very, very high end finish to it and is exceptionally well made. After a full season with loads and loads of riding the bearings were like new. The grease on (not in) the bearings under the special dust covers was looking fresh, like on a new bike. I didn't bother to open the bearings themselves, they worked fine - which I never had on any bike after that much riding before. A bearing change a season was the norm.

Also disassembling AND assembling the frame is an absolute breeze. Parts, bearings, rockers all fit like Lego. No bending, hammering, fumbling etc. involved. Which I can't say for my last frames from Specialized, Canyon and Giant. They all needed some convincing and a bit of elbow grease to mount the shock etc. tolerances etc.

And maybe as important as the quality of the product is the customer experience. RAAW bikes keeps me 100% happy and confident as a customer. They are easy to get in touch with, they seem very honest, friendly and I think they absolutely love mountain biking and are absolutely passionate about their bikes AND want their customers to be truly satisfied and not just to sell their product for a profit.

You can easily buy ALL spare parts and small parts or even upgrade to newer stuff (V1 - V2 there is a lot of intercompatibility). All bearings except the two giant main bearings are the same dimension, one bearing press is enough, no fiddling. So many details which I appreciated the more I rode and wrenched.

Privateer frames look remarkably similar to the Madonna (on photos, I haven't had a Privateer in my own hands), but value is not simply the price of a frame/bike - if you really ride it a lot and the brand has your back, that's going to make a big difference. And the devil is in the details!

I don´t have experience with Privateer bikes and I do hope they deliver a great product with great service. But as a customer you have to keep in mind, that they also need to pay their bills (or the ones of the frame builders etc). No business has money to burn (maybe Tesla with their stocks), so the cheaper price MAY come with some nitpicks at some point, whatever they might be. And they may or may not matter.

What I definitely can and will say, I am 100% happy with the price and value of my RAAW. Compared to some high-end carbon bikes I bought I'd say it's night and day better. Not for value reasons, but because it's hands down the nicest and best riding bike I've owned so far. Even though it was absolutely not the most expensive one =)
  • 31 3
 @PrivateerBikes: Pointless violence and marketing blare doesn't really seem to be taking off between the two of you. Nice. More riding, less shit talking. Peace.
  • 2 1
 It would be pretty difficult to tell the difference in pictures. They would have to put an orange fork on one of them.
  • 3 4
 @znarf: so in all the text you've written, you're saying you've tried the expensive one, like it, but have no experience of the cheap one that apparently looks almost identical?
  • 5 0
 @IllestT:
Yes, that basically sums it up Big Grin
  • 4 13
flag sam-swag-g (Apr 20, 2020 at 4:30) (Below Threshold)
 plus pole stamina180
  • 3 0
 @IllestT: the first two or three runs of the V2 were sold out before the first one even landed, so I’d say the price isn’t too high - it’s just not right for everyone.
  • 5 0
 @znarf: Agree - just bought a V2 and have a month on it and Ruben is super responsive with answering questions while I was specing parts for the frame and during the build.

I'm in love with the bike already and it has only been a month. The cornering ability cannot be overstated - it is on rails and the traction is unbelievable front and rear. The traction in loose terrain and off-camber reminds me of a DH bike with coil front and rear, yet the bike is super playful and poppy still. Love the DPX2 on this bike.

Biggest surprise has been how versatile the bike is. It pedals really well, and it is still fun to ride on mellow and rolling trails because it corners so well and has a lot of pop. It's definitely the most trail-bikable enduro bike I have ridden, more so than my last two bikes (Wreckoning and a Ransom).

The low BB makes it a bit more challenging on technical chunky climbs as you need to time your pedal strokes, but I wouldn't change it because the low BB is what gives the bike it's Sam Hill cornering personality.

The Privateer looks amazing too - probably can't go wrong either way. But I can attest the Raaw is legit.
  • 19 0
 @bakemono, we’re planning to get one in for review in the near future - there will definitely be comparisons made between the two.
  • 3 2
 Madonna vs Slayer
  • 6 0
 @rudeboybl:
I have been riding my V2 on some mellow trails and one very steep trail. When it’s not going uphill or downhill the bike sort of feels like you’re driving a supercar in traffic. Sure, it gets the job done without any trouble but you could be in a prius and you’d really rather be on the nurburgring.

The Madonna is a beast of a bike but it’s a great example of a bike not to buy if you live somewhere with really mild terrain. I live in the PNW and ride a lot of steep fire roads up to steep descents which this bike just eats up.
  • 2 0
 that would be very interesting. Quite a difference in price. Privateer with RockShox Super Deluxe Ultimate shock $1854.00 USD, Madonna with DPX2 $2709.00. $855.00. Common Pinkbike, let's do it! Both bikes look awesome.
  • 1 0
 Yep.
  • 1 2
 @RAAWMountainBikes: any way to get the bbdrop a bit higher? maybe a angleset or something?
  • 2 0
 @Pkadillak:

I thought the Privateer 161 was cheaper than that in the US?

The straight conversion from lb sterling to USD is $1854, but I don't think we have to pay VAT here in the states, which I think is 20%. Which puts the frame + shock price at ~$1500. So then the price difference is even larger (~$1200).

@PrivateerBikes can you confirm what the US price is?
  • 1 0
 And the Arbr RB2?https://m.pinkbike.com/news/arbr-unveils-production-ready-rb2-29er.html
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer: I will take that demo you have since I cant buy one.
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: Would like to know this also, interested in picking up a 161 but cant see anywhere on the website about VAT if being shipped here
  • 1 0
 Two of the best looking bikes I’ve seen in ages. I think we can all agree nothing looks better than a raw alloy frame when the welds are on point.
  • 1 0
 @zyoungson: Looks to be about £1380 (frame only) shipped
  • 1 0
 @ocnlogan: Looks ~$1720 usd shipped
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: @JDugan: I just bought one 1310.83 pounds shipped. At current exchange rate 1638.54 U.S.
  • 1 0
 I'll assume they both ride well, and choose the RAAW because its beautiful (or the Titan for the same reason) and the privateer is not.
  • 1 0
 @hmstuna:

Thanks for the response.

Sounds like we don't have to pay VAT here, so it is a bit cheaper, but mostly depends on how strong the lb sterling is compared to the US dollar at the time.

Still, almost $1000 cheaper. Hard to ignore that.
  • 1 0
 @jimmy-tiddlebun: to me they look almost identical, and one is a lot cheaper. I would go for that one myself. I probably would have done if there was a mullet setting on the 161. It was an itch that just had to be scratched.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: Nothing stops you from mulleting 161, one offset bushing and short cranks if you are worried about pedal strikes and and you are good to go.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: or you could just buy a Capra, which doesn't require offset bushings or short cranks, and off you go.
Laziness won the day in my case!
  • 2 0
 Also, a test against the Pyga Slakline. Alloy, made in South Africa, and very similar numbers.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Maybe add the Reeb Sqweeb V3 to the test as well. Shootout of the function over form horst link aluminum shredders.
  • 2 0
 Maybe what you're looking for:
"One of the bikes the Privateer 161 will inevitably be compared against is the new RAAW V2. Not only do they share similarities on paper and weigh about the same (3–3.5 kg for the frame) but the bikes also share a very similar aesthetic and Horst link suspension design. The Privateer features a steeper 80° seat tube angle (compared to the RAAWs 78.2°) and there is also a big difference in price, € 1,499 versus € 2,290. As tested, the Privateer prioritises huge mid-travel support and progressivity but cannot match the RAAW V2’s sublime planted feeling, grip and small bump sensitivity. The Privateer is a bike better used in strong hands, or as a race weapon, whereas the RAAW V2 comes at a premium, but will meet all those same demands while also offering a more relaxing and versatile ride feel."
Source: enduro-mtb.com/en/privateer-161-2020-review
  • 1 0
 @andrewdoud: I would have loved to get a 161 this year. Just an awesome looking bike. Maybe next year if they make the v2 with a mullet-friendly flip chip and offer frame kits with a coil shock and decent fork.

Just an awesome looking bike.
  • 36 0
 There isn't a bike i want more than this currently! Strong work Raaw!
  • 18 0
 Thank you so much!
  • 2 1
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Like a very reasonable $$$$ frame only option. Curious what 27.5 wheels would do to the equation?
  • 2 0
 good luck, currently sold out, the next run is sold out too
  • 1 2
 @philip9175: Their problem.
  • 32 0
 Such a cool bike. Simple and thoughtful. Looks like it would survive years of smashing and doesn't look like a filing cabinet. Would be very high on my list!
  • 2 0
 Owner of one of the first frames here: I confirm that it does not just look like it, it actually survives years of smashing Smile Finished checking up the frame lately and there's just nothing to do, except swapping bent derailleurs, elongated chains, f*cked up cranks and pedals.
Love it. Best bike so far in my live and not a contender on the horizon.
  • 25 1
 This bike looks just great, so simple and smoth.

Also, it is hard to believe the price TAG. for Europe, the frame is 2900€ with a DHX-2 shox ! 2900 for an aluminium frame, direct to customer !
End of the dream here for me
  • 11 0
 that is why we are waiting for Privateer 161
  • 3 0
 Yeah, I agree! Usually it’s the murikan and Canadian frames that get that European upgrad€ for us

Amazing bike though
  • 4 2
 Agreed, this bike is simply perfect, beautiful, sober, efficient..... but the price tag hurts. It`s even more expensive than a Nicolaï... also made in Germany.
  • 5 0
 @softsteel: Also? I thought Raaws would be welded in Taiwan?
  • 3 1
 @FloImSchnee: Hum... you`re right, I don`t know actually. At this price tag I automatically supposed it is 100% made in Germany. The pill is hard to swallow.
  • 20 0
 @FloImSchnee: Yes, we work with Genio Bikes in Taiwan. The best and most experienced bike frame production is found in Taiwan. Just like the corona virus, the Taiwanese handle it best Wink www.raawmtb.com/blogs/stories/taiwan-factory
  • 7 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Genio also built the Donut...
  • 3 0
 @ReformedRoadie: They work for many brands, there is also some great coverage in the 'We went to Taiwan and started a bike company'.
  • 1 0
 @dumr666: they bumped up their prices tho
  • 2 4
 +1 Great bike, but the price for me is an impossible pill to swallow. Warranty is also an issue. How does one sell itself (and family members) on the idea that it will be the ultimate bike given only 2 years manufacturing and material defects warranty and 5 year crash replacement at a 35% discount?
I hope RAAW makes it big and moves into an economy of scale.
  • 3 0
 FWIW, you absolutely get what you pay for with this bike.

Our dollar is pretty bad for buying from Europe, so other frames I was looking at (Rocky Slayer, Norco Sight) in carbon were about the same level as the Madonna. I certainly wasn't saving any money ordering an aluminum frame from Germany.

But the attention to detail and the build quality of the Madonna frame is far beyond any high-end carbon frame I've owned. And, personally, I see the aluminum as a feature, not a detriment. At least when it's been used to such a high degree of craftsmanship, such as the case here. I know I will be riding this bike for years without issue and that it'll be a pleasure to work on when maintenance is required.
  • 2 0
 @softsteel: Not sure where you're seeing the Nicolai as less. A G1 is 3150EU ($3400) from GeoMetron and 3700EU ($4000) from Nicolai (with rear axle and headset). Granted that's with the EXT but it's still 40% to 80% more than the Madonna. The Privateer is shockingly cheap at $1630 (w/Sup Dlx). If it's 90% of the bike it promises to be it will be a screaming deal. The Madonna is still a good value at $2370 (w/DPX2), and the existence of a shockingly cheap option doesn't make that go away. For my money, if I didn't already have a Capra 29 LTD, I'd have a hard time choosing since I like the Madonna's details (pivots and sealing, esp.) and lines more, and the reliability and cust svc track record from the V1 are so good. That could be worth $750 to some (including me).
  • 4 0
 @ohio: Compare frames only then...https://www.bike-components.de/de/Nicolai/Ion-G16-27-5-Rahmen-p52802/
Shocking 28euro difference, for frame made in germany from far superior material by best welders in the business. WIth 5 year no questions warranty, guaranteed supply of spares for 10 years, possibility of changing colors if you so desire in the future etc. There really is no comparison and I actually like RAAW even though I prefer V1 for some reason, privateer is sweet and for that price absolute bargain too.
  • 2 1
 @Mondbiker: I think you're mixing prices with VAT and without, with shock and without, and a model currently discounted by both Nicolai and the reseller in this case. Regardless, I agree that the same argument I made about the Raaw vs the Privateer (the incremental cost is worth it) could be made about the Nicolai vs the Raaw - an extra $750 isn't crazy for what more you get - Nicolai's warranty, unique aesthetic, configurability and customization. I just don't see how the Raaw is overpriced. BC it's made in TW? Design and quality are what matters. 6066-T6 is a high-end alloy, and the welders in TW are as good at welding aluminum as anyone on the planet (arguably better), and I for one don't feel any nationalistic sentiment towards Germany.
  • 2 0
 @ohio: if i remember correct raaws and privaters made in same factory
  • 4 0
 @ohio: Nope, both prices are with VAT, in Europe we don´t care about without VAT prices because we always have to pay that lol. And no, G16 is also full price from that seller, I guess they sell a lot of them so they can get them cheaper and it looks like they can get them quicker too. G1 is a bit more because it uses bigger downtube which obviously costs more and more machined parts too. If 6066 is high end alloy, what is 7020? Uber alloy? There is plenty of cracked/snapped frames made in TW, you will struggle to find cracked nicolai and people don t buy new model every year, my 2003 Helius DH is still fine and I´m 4th owner. You don´t have to feel any sentiment towards Germany but when all frames are welded by 2 or 3 welders that are like family chances are pretty good they are getting paid more than welders in Taiwan. If Madonna was 2300euro with shock, than it would be reasonable price, still significantly more than privateer made in the same factory from the same material with a lot of similar features but it would be more acceptable. Full build price is absolutely fine, I would even say good, I guess they don´t want to sell too many frames...
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: Not uncommon to have a enter the market cost that,s lower. Few years back I was going to frame swap. The one frame I looked at was at a certain price. When the time came to purchase. I looked at them again. Guess what it was increased by $500 USD. When they stopped making it , it was over $2K , funny it started at $1100.
  • 2 0
 @shlotch: I understand your point, as I am riding a Propain Rage AL
But you have to compare what can be compared.
The price of the AL Frame of the new propain Tyee is 1000 € cheaper than Raw

You can't compare big brands and direct to customer brands

And I fin it is even more a shame, because this bike looks absolutely perfect and definitely a bike I would have picked in my short list for my future trail bike if the price was more reasonable. But I don't think that 2800€ for an aluminium frame is a good price. (I don't have a Rolex neither, but I still like Rolex)
  • 1 0
 @jpnbrider: in the US, the frame isn't a super bargain, but the Factory Build with XT is actually really price competitive.
  • 1 0
 @jpnbrider: I certainly don't disagree with anything you say Smile . With the Madonna you are absolutely paying a bit of a premium for the fact that it's a small, boutique brand that is attempting to produce at the highest level of quality and finish.

Though when I try to think of a reasonable analogy, the one that always comes to mind is this one (arguably) overpriced cooking knife I bought years back. It's not much different on the surface than a quality brand you'd get in a store, nor is it a brand that is available in a store to begin with. But the differences in quality become more and more obvious with each use and the extravagance of the expense soon feels justified. You still recognize that it was a lot to pay, but you also recognize that it's a fair price for that level of quality. Sorry if it's a bad analogy, but it's the best I can do.

The Tyee looks to be a great bike and I'd argue it's moreso an incredible bargain than the Madonna is as equally over-priced. Though I can't really make a judgement without seeing the quality of the frame first-hand. If it were to be up to the level of what Raaw has done with this bike, then I'd be extremely impressed!
  • 1 0
 @shlotch: I think it really depends on the region. Tyee isn't available in the US, but the Hugene Performance is 3642 euros (with 20% VAT included!) and $5199 in the US without tax. The Tyee isn't available here yet, so I can't directly compare it to the Madonna, but if the price gap is the same, the aluminum Tyee Performance (which is most similar in spec to the Madonna) might actually be more expensive as it runs 3.664,00€ now.
  • 23 1
 Once the Privateer 161 gets reviewed, then we can finally have our long travel 29'er field test Smile .

Raaw Madonna, Banshee Titan, Privateer 161, GG Gnarvana.

But seriously, when someone in the industry who tests bikes for a living, says there is something special and addictive about how it rides and corners... you know its something special.
  • 2 0
 In the spirit of small, direct to customer, and Raw, I'd like to see how this rolls against the Starling Murmur.
  • 4 0
 Also the new mega sentinel or whatever transition will call it when they drop that!
  • 1 0
 Check the enduro mag website. They did a test already.
  • 20 0
 Mike, can you tell sth in comparison to the Specialized Enduro, which seems to be the new benchmark for long travel 29ers, especially regarding rear suspension (axle path)?
How did you get along with the high stack on the RAAW?
Thanks!
  • 3 1
 Unless you have a high pivot with idler pulley, the rearward axle path doesn't really matter that much, because its tiny as a percentage of vertical movement.
  • 1 0
 Aside from the fact they have gone full dentist with their pricing & not offering an alu version, I think it is an interesting bike. Would be nice to see adjustable stays & a steeper seat angle, 670mm top tube is huge on the xl size.
  • 25 3
 Come on RAAW, make a 130mm travel bike like this one!
  • 10 0
 Right. That's what I'm looking for. I want like a 135/150 bike.
  • 8 1
 @onemanarmy:
Last Glen (140/150)
  • 6 0
 @onemanarmy: look no further than the knolly fugitive. Superb build quality and pedals amazingly well.
  • 7 7
 @MattInNZ: well then you have to ride A knolly...
  • 3 0
 @danimaniac: this. Don't know this hasnt caught pbs attention. And the glen mx, ultimate fast play bike!!
  • 7 12
flag Plastercaster (Apr 20, 2020 at 3:57) (Below Threshold)
 @MattInNZ: Knollys are designed by cutting up drawings of other bikes then sticking them back together badly.
  • 11 1
 @Plastercaster: Wow, I didn't know that. Amazing that they end up riding so well, considering that the designer relies on nothing but blind luck.
  • 4 0
 @MattInNZ: have to agree.
Go the Knolly Fugitive ( or Fug ) If you’re after a mid travel Madonna.
Same Exceptional quality. Fantastic suspension, Sadly The Fug (Fuggenugly) got hit with that stick ( unlike the sexy RAAW )
  • 6 0
 Just get a Banshee Prime!
  • 1 0
 Anybody look at the Pyga Hyrax with 140/150 travel? Man this looks like a sweet bike at a great price, but I can't really find any reviews on it. Also the Reeb Sqweeb V3 is a 130/150 travel bike in this vain.
  • 1 1
 There is already quite a few trail bikes out there that cover all possible combinations of geometry and front and rear travel. No need for one more.
  • 3 0
 @onemanarmy:
You want a Banshee Prime. It’s a mini-Titan. I love my V2. I can only imagine the V3 is that much better.
  • 1 0
 @gafoto: When my v2 kicks the bucket or I've got more funds, I'm totally building up a v3 Prime
  • 3 0
 @professed: The Knolly Sispension is designed by an engineer to work as good as ot possibly can. Aesthetics come second. Personally I dont think it looks ugly, but it is different. Having built a few bikes recently, nothing comes close to build.quality. I'd like to see the Madonna in the flesh.
  • 1 0
 @wmoody54:
I just pressed in new bearings on my V2 after beating the piss out of it for 3 seasons. It’s too well made, it’s never gonna die. If Banshee isn’t careful they won’t get any obsolescence from their bikes and I’ll never buy another. Better start making chainstays out of thin carbon.
  • 2 0
 @onemanarmy: That sounds dreamy.
  • 2 0
 Yeah I hope they sell some Madonnas and then release a 130ish bike with slightly more playful geometry. A 130/150 would be perfect.

Currently on a Knolly Fugitive LT which is pretty much an awesome version of just that. Smile
  • 2 1
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Build it and they will come....
  • 1 0
 @FredrikWestman: Hell... I'd take 133/150. LOL!
  • 2 0
 @MattInNZ: Knolly and Raaw are both built by Genio. This is part of what convinced me to buy Raaw. I had a Knolly Warden for a while, then went plastic (other brands), and the carbon frames just kept breaking. Plus internal routing is just plain annoying. Part of the reason I sold the Knolly is I thought the linkages were really frustrating to service. Lots of parts, tightly fit bushings. The Raaw appeals because of extra seals for bearings, standard size bearings, and no bushings. And I knew I would be built as well as the Knolly. Anyway, the Madonna is sweet, I love mine
  • 19 0
 Now desperate to read comparison to the Privateer 161! Smile
  • 20 2
 oh baby i like it raaw
  • 9 2
 Shimmy shimmy ya, shimmy yam, shimmy yay
  • 20 6
 So I guess that it hum ? No more 27,5 now. It's all gonna be 29ers from now it seems like...
  • 16 35
flag thegoodflow (Apr 20, 2020 at 0:32) (Below Threshold)
 Finally! Wink
  • 28 2
 Bike brands are picking a wheel size and being dicks about it.
  • 3 0
 you go buy a last coal for a refined, capable enduro that'll compete well against the raaw
  • 6 0
 Check out the Airdrop Edit for something similar to the Privateer or Madonna but with 27.5 wheels.
  • 4 2
 A few are left: SC Nomad, YT Capra 27, etc
  • 5 1
 @FloImSchnee: knolly warden/delirium v2
  • 16 13
 The 27 for life crowd is such a whiny bunch
  • 3 1
 For lighter riders using the 65mm shaft shock with 60 rocker would setup it up nicely for a mullet
  • 3 0
 @grum-p: Airdrops look so good too.
  • 2 0
 Canfield Balance is a great option.
  • 4 3
 If smaller wheels were better, people would still be riding 26".
  • 6 1
 @phops: I ride 26", 27.5" and 29er - why choose one when each has their benefits. Not all of us want 160+ with 29er wheels
  • 3 1
 @artistformlyknowasdan:

Smaller wheels allow a more compact bike, so for things like dirt jumpers it makes sense. Beyond that, I just find it funny how people in the past were against 27.5 and stuck with 26, but now those same people are riding 27.5 and hating on 29.
  • 1 1
 @phops: and my aunt would have some we`d call her my uncle.
  • 2 0
 Its payback for the years us tall folk spent bent over riding tiny 26" bikes. Just wait til an in between wheel size comes out we might start seeing smaller wheeled bikes.
  • 9 1
 Wooo! Madonna review! As one of the vocal part of pinkbike community asking for this, I want to thank you for this, as well as the Titan comparison, I really appreciate it.

I really, really like the looks of this bike, and the description sounds just like what I'm looking for. Anything that helps me corner like how I describe to my friends is worth it IMO Smile .

How does it compare in fit (and ride) to the Norco Sight? On paper they look pretty similar in many respects... and at least I'd be able to demo the Norco for fit, whereas it doesn't seem likely that I'll even get a chance to throw a leg over the Madonna before I owned it. Wondering if it could be used as a proxy for fit testing?
  • 8 0
 How have I not seen any comparison/mention of Nicolai G1 in here? Actually made in Germany yet apparently cheaper. Adjustable if you want or don’t want that low BB. Takes all the dropper you can throw at it. Adjustable chain stay. Fit/finish/quality better with Nicolai, as is their 5 year warranty. Ride reports suggest there is nothing lacking in performance.
  • 3 0
 But does it have a bottle mount?
  • 2 1
 @Stokedonthis: It does, but no one made the bottle yet.
  • 9 1
 RAAW Madonna V2 Privateer 161 Ibis Ripmo AF Knolly Fugitive LT Bird Aeris Nicolai Geometron Pole Stamina 180 Kavenz VHP16 Banshee Titan Commencal META Starling Murmur BTR Pinner Cotic Rocket Max --the future is here, and it isn't carbon.
  • 2 1
 Stanton Switch9er too. Probably one of the few bikes that may look better than the Raww
  • 2 0
 @MattInNZ: Good call - figured I'd miss at least one big one!
  • 3 0
 Actofive P-Train
  • 3 0
 MDE Damper
  • 2 0
 Yep, bring on the metal bikes. Sick of seeing overpriced plastic frames. Some people just want a bike that rides good & can take a beating.
  • 9 0
 Raw is in vogue.
  • 2 0
 Raw is always in vogue.
  • 4 0
 A few points ...

'I've seen some online mutterings about steep seat tube angles being a poor choice for flat terrain. I didn't find that to be the case on the mild three-mile approach to my local trails, although the Madonna does have a fairly tall front end and a higher rise bar, which put me in a comfortable, upright position'.

Agreed on this, as someone who rides a Pole Evolink 140. You do need to get the correct stack / rise to make it comfortable but its a fine balance without making the front end too high for descending.

'Also, if you are concerned about a bike's performance in the flats, it might be best to look for something other than a slack, 160mm enduro bike'.

I don't 100% agree on this (but I get the gist of what you're saying...): I an ride from home but have an 80% road pedal to get to the decent bits that warrant a bigger bike so I want reasonable efficiency and comfort.
  • 6 0
 Everyone sleeps on bare height. IMO it has as big of an effect on handling as head angle or wheel base. Super high bars are comfy and nice in steep terrain but if the bike doesn't have the right geo for high bars it can trash its ability to corner. It gets harder to weight the front and it takes longer to lean the bike over.
  • 7 0
 Don't matter how good it looks you can't get one
  • 3 0
 Yeah it's frustrating to read reviews on something and fine out they're sold out for a few months. But that's pretty normal. Even specialized blew through the Enduro super fast. Add in this covid stuff.... all understandable.
  • 3 0
 "Hands down, this is one of the best cornering bikes I've ridden in recent memory. The low bottom bracket deserves the bulk of the credit here, and while that might cause a few extra pedal strikes on the climbs, on the descents that low slung stance makes the Raaw an absolute riot when it comes to cornering or carving down the steeps." -MK

I have my 160mm bike (Wreckoning in X-Low with a -1 degree headset 160 fork) at nearly the same numbers including the low BB height (334) and head angle (64.5). Nothing I've ridden corners/handles like it does and while my bike is now three years old, I'd have a hard time going back to something with a higher BB.
  • 3 1
 Hands down, this is the best enduro bike I ever had. And yes, the cornering is awesome. You have to get used to the low bottom bracket, then you won't want to miss it anymore. So well Balanced, so much front wheel traction, so much confidence inspiring. The review is right on target. I recognize my Madonna V2 exactly. Size L with XL dropouts, Float X2 and Öhlins RXF36 M.2 Air 170. Great Enduro Race Bike!
  • 5 0
 Need a battle of the raw alu bikes. Privateer 161, Raaw Madonna, Pole Machine, Pyga Slakline
  • 4 0
 Nicolai?
  • 2 0
 Knolly Fugitive LT.
  • 1 0
 Yep, that'd be amazing, all the glen mx, the rurok industries and Canfield into it too.
  • 1 0
 Banshee too
  • 1 0
 Plus MDE plus Nicolai G1
  • 2 0
 Amazing to see all these aluminum bikes with modern geometry entering the market. I’d love to see a geometron G1 review though!.

Or even better, an aluminum long travel shootout, RAW vs G1 vs Privateer 161 vs Evolink 158/Stamina 180..... that would be quite interesting to read.
  • 1 0
 Yes!
I know Pole may not be making more evolinks but to me, that's the group test I want to see. It's basically all the bikes I considered (went for an Evolink 158 in the end.
  • 2 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes i have been drooling over this bike for months now but curious why a 160-170mm enduro bike would use the dpx2 instead of the x2. it seems that most of the big travel bikes from other brands are using the x2 for their burliest builds - sb150, enduro, capra, etc.

did you test with an x2 during development as well? i ask because i am running a push elevensix on my current bike and found the x2 to be a very good approximation of the feel of that shock, whereas the dpx2 i tried felt terrible. i understand that bikes are usually designed around a particular shock platform but if an x2 would work on the madonna, i would be even closer to pulling the trigger.

thanks!
  • 1 0
 On their website you can change which rear shock comes on the bike. It comes with a up charge sure but you can do it.
  • 1 0
 @MillerReid: even better. thanks
  • 1 0
 @MillerReid:

in fact - on their website:

'We work closely with FOX and have custom tunes. We offer two air and one coil options.'

i got so drawn in to the photos i didn't scroll far enough!
  • 1 0
 @twonsarelli: They also mention the same thing on their website that Mike does in this review: They prefer the DPX2 for its ramp up and think it makes the bike more playful and so more fun.
  • 1 0
 @MarcusBrody: Have you experienced this as well swapping between these two? my only experience with the dpx2 was terrible and the x2 was bliss by comparison.
  • 2 0
 @twonsarelli: I've never ridden the Madonna. I'm just going by Raaw's own statement that:
"This is the shock [DPX2] we like most. It fits the character of the Madonna perfectly and is very straight forward in its setup. And it crams an immense amount of party into its deceptively small size."

And Mike's statement that:
"I also installed a Float X2 for a portion of the test period, and ended up preferring the feel of the DPX2. It gave the bike a more lively, awake feel; the Float X2 muted some of that liveliness, and made the bike feel a little sluggish on more rolling terrain."
  • 1 0
 @MarcusBrody:
i just meant in general have you tried switching between those two shocks and experienced anything similar? i know the frame design matters in this case but it seems that the x2 is really just an upgrade over the dpx2 and ideally would perform better.
  • 2 0
 I had been lusting over one of these ever since they first flew off the shelves with NA availability. Feverishly watched a couple websites to see if a frame would become available and, once one surprisingly did, ordered it immediately.

What I wanted to add to the discussion here is that when I'm looking at new frames, I often have a number of questions for manufacturers in order to aid in my decision making and plan a final build. Ruben was always the first to get back to me (even beyond those manufacturers in my own country) and always provided the most relevant and detailed information in order to answer my queries. There's something about having the opportunity to speak directly to a bike's engineer that I know I will appreciate as I continue to fine-tune this bike and inevitably find reasons to bother them again.
  • 2 0
 I was impressed when I saw the geo, and stays that change length for different sizes and adjustability. But then I saw the seat tube and was blown away. No more worrying about bottoming out your dropper of hoping the dropper isn't too long for the frame. Absolutely brilliant having that opening in the bottom. I went to the site and was about to order.......but sold out!
  • 2 0
 This is my kind of bike - alu, simple rugged design, good performance, threaded BB, and EXTERNAL F***ING CABLES! I'm not against carbon, (one of my bikes is carbon) but there's something about a sleek raw alu frame... And why do more companies not do external cable runs, at least for the brake line. Is it 'fashion', for looks? Ease of washing? At least one (GT?) has managed to hide the cables away without making them internal so it looks clean. IMO if external routing is done well, it doesn't have a visual impact - a good-looking frame is a good-looking frame, and a bad one is... Well, put it this way, no amount of internal routing is gonna help the Polygon/Marin R3ACT frames! Big Grin I won't be buying any frame with internal runs.
  • 2 0
 Has anyone ridden the Maddonna V1 or V2 and can compare it to another bike than the Banshee? So far I have not been able to test the Madonna but it sure looks promising! And the price seems reasonable as well.
  • 3 1
 in good ol'd Deutschland some people made the switch from Madonna to Last Glen. Or Titan.. maybe read up on it in mtb-news forum.
www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/last-coal-clay-glen-thread-aufbauten-tipps-einstellungen-teile-alles-rund-ums-coal.793062/page-267#post-16299824

for example.
  • 3 0
 I've been riding the V2 for a couple weeks. I haven't opened it up on 'proper' trails yet but it's been great fun ripping around the woods. It's not the jib machine that my 5010 is, but it carves a corner like no other. Also, Enduro Mag has a round up with other big bikes from January including the V2.
  • 3 0
 I see this bike around my local woods relatively often, it looks so sick. If I had the money, I would definitely buy one. The company owner is such a shredder as well
  • 3 2
 @RAAWMountainBikes Lots of companies seem to be releasing bikes "capable" of being run with longer stroke shocks than they are spec'd with at the moment. I really dont understand the logic behind this trend. If a longer stroke shock fits, why would you ever not run it? 60 or 65mm stroke wont effect the ride feel at all. As long as you run 17mm of sag the bike will feel absolutely identical. No different whatsoever, except that when the 60mm stroke shock hits bottom out, the 65mm stroke....wont. Why would you ever run 60?
  • 1 0
 This is in reference to the part of the article that states the 60 rocker can be run in conjunction with either stroke length. Obviously i understand the 65 rocker will provide a different feel
  • 7 1
 We offer two different rocker links. The Rocker 60 needs a 205*60 shock and is best for lighter riders (high lev ratio). The Rocker 65 works with a 205*65 shock and is best for heavier riders (low lev ratio). You can find more about that here: youtu.be/Kt1sn0NP_c0 and here: www.raawmtb.com/pages/madonna-v2

You can run a 65 mm stroke shock in the rocker 60 and it will give you 172 mm of travel. But like you said, you'd need to run more sag to actually use the extra 12 mm of travel at the rear wheel. And that would change the geo quite a bit. If you run the same sag, you've just got a bit of extra travel instead. That's why we don't think there is a big advantage in running a 172 mm setup on the Madonna. But the option of the Rocker 60 or Rocker 65 is a whole different topic.
  • 2 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes: yeah i understand the different links. Thats not what im asking about.
What im interested in is why wouldnt you run the longer stroke shock on the 60 link. There is no disadvantage at all to the extra 12mm of travel if you keep the sag the same 17ish mm at the shock. It seems odd to throw a spacer in the shock just to deny yourself a bit of extra squish. Whats the point?
  • 3 0
 @gabriel-mission9: I understand what you mean. In that case you'd have a 172 mm rear end that should be setup as if it was 160, also a little confusing. One real reason could be tire clearance and shock clearance at full travel. The clearance is fine on the Madonna, but that's not a given for any other bike with the same stroke option.
  • 1 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Yes. Obviously long-stroking is not a great idea on any bike where this will cause the swingarm or wheel to foul on the front triangle. I have just seen quite a few brands recently release bikes in a given travel bracket but then clearly state "you can run a longer stroke for more travel if you like". I cant work out why all these bikes arent just released with long stroke shocks already and guidance about what sag to run. Seems a no brainer to me, just the same bike. But better.
  • 5 1
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Thoughts on 65mm stroke with the Rocker 60 to enable Mullet Mode?
  • 1 1
 @hamncheez: Now that is an interesting thought.
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: not sure that would help mullet mode. Geo will be unaffected until full bottom out.
Longer e2e would push geo back to normal with a smaller real wheel, but would likely mess up kinematics quite drastically in early stroke.
  • 2 1
 @RAAWMountainBikes: sounds like a good option to mullet it since many of us don't have long enough legs to comfortable run 160+ travel with 29er wheels...cough cough
  • 1 0
 SO I was mistaken; the 60mm and 65mm stroke shock (metric) have the same eye to eye, so it wouldn't raise the BB to use the 65mm stroke.
  • 1 1
 @gabriel-mission9: The same 17 mm of sag in the longer stroke shock will give you a lower percent sag and won’t be as supple because of the slightly higher air pressure required. That change in sag percent absolutely would make the different stroke lengths feel different.
  • 1 1
 @gabriel-mission9: You would basically be making your shock feel more harsh than it needs to, and in return you would get 12 mm more travel that you would never touch except in events that would have bottomed out the shorter stroke shock. It would feel bottomless for sure, but at the cost of being less supple through the entire stroke.
  • 2 0
 @pacificnorthwet: 65mm shocks are limited to 60 by just adding a spacer to the shock shaft. The shocks are otherwise identical. Air volumes etc will be the same. The only difference at all will be that when one shock bottoms out the other will still have 5mm on tap
  • 1 0
 @gabriel-mission9: Oh, I didn’t realize that. But still, it wouldn’t make sense for them to sell the bike like that since they wanted to make two links that offer 160 mm travel with different leverage ratios. Otherwise they are just selling you a 172 mm bike with a really low sag recommendation that never hits the bottom of the travel. The only time I have ever wanted something like that is overforking a hardtail and running very little sag so that the geo didn’t get too steep at “bottom out” because the spring rate was too high to ever compress the fork the last 10 or 15 mm.
  • 1 0
 @pacificnorthwet: yeah each to their own i guess. Just seems odd to me. Like running a 160mm fork but chucking a spacer in the lowers so it bottoms out at 140mm with 20mm of stanchion still on show. If someone gave me a bike set up like that the first thing i would do is take those spacers out to allow full travel if i ever needed it. Same for the rear shock.
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: Forgetting about the spacer bit for a moment, it does make sense that for some applications you'd want to restrict the travel to 160 over 171. The bike, all other things being equal, should pedal a tiny bit better, it should be a tiny bit more responsive, it should pump and roll a tad better, and exit smooth corners slightly better.

I always wondered why EWS racers would choose the Stumpy over the Evo or the Enduro, and this is what people always told me. At some point, either you want a full DH bike or not.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: No! This is my entire point. It wont do any of those things any differently at all. Performance will be literally identical. Just with less travel. There are no advantages whatsoever to running a shorter stroke shock than necessary.
  • 1 2
 @gabriel-mission9: I said in theory. If you had a 60mm stroke shock that was actually shorter and not just with a spacer, then it will behave differently.
  • 4 0
 After the Propain Tyee this is the most attractive bike of the year. Great geo, and the matte black just looks amazing.
  • 1 0
 "I could see going with 165mm cranks and a 180mm fork, changes that would increase the ground clearance and make it even more of a downhill machine."

Interesting choices. Those changes would raise the BB and the "effective BB" (shorter cranks raise the rider's CG when a pedal is at 6 o'clock)... thus removing some of the "absolute riot when it comes to cornering or carving down the steeps."
  • 1 0
 Got a real soft spot for RAAW, always thought the bike looked great and the company and Ruben(?) were super cool. In the end, I bought a Pole Evolink frameset (which so far has only been ridden in the garden). Partly, because of the price was just a bit too much for me. Not to say it isn't worth it, just don't have the €€€.

It's sold out on the website, so is looking good!
  • 1 0
 I don't get the deal with wandering brake point on Shimano brakes, I have a set of M800's and have never noticed such a thing, is this something that appears on one set but not the next?!!!?? I will note that there is little modulation in the M8000's but that is a steady characteristic....
  • 3 0
 HAF- hardAF to get one of these bad boys...came up empty twice. wonder how many they make per batch???
  • 2 0
 Not that many - next delivery in May is all sold out. Bike-components.de have then in S and XL in stock, otherwise it's after summer.
  • 1 0
 Was about to ask what happens if you use a 65mm stroke shockwith the Rocker 60 link, but this is covered in the article. Such a combo for 171mm rear travel with a 180mm fork up front would be nuts fun! Smile
  • 1 0
 Can anyone recommend a multi-tool that can be used with the random top tube bolts? They are also on my Slash (I believe) but I have never found a tool available which trumps just using a pocket.
  • 3 0
 They are spaced the same as a bottle cage, currently using the front ones for a one-up pump on mine. Wolftooth also do strap mounts etc which fit
  • 14 14
 Wandering bite point is an old issue, and with a proper bleed, it won't appear. It was an Issue with the XT M8000 Brakes, and only with an early production run, I'm surprised that I hear it over and over again on Pinkbike...but honestly only on Pinkbike.

I have two bikes with M8000 Brakes, and one bike with a M8100 Brake (2 Piston though) and NEVER had an Issue. Seriously Never.
  • 2 0
 My Saints had a bit of a problem with that in the beginning. They’re working great right now, unless temperatures are dropping below 8-10 degrees (Celsius for the measurementally challenged americans), then the rear brake starts biting later sometimes. I think this is because the oil gets too viscous to flow back into the lever reservoir fast enough. Some people got rid of this problem by using a different oil. Kaz said he had plenty of winter rides on it so this might be where it comes from, as I know plenty of people who have zero problems with Shimano brakes.
  • 5 5
 I confirm. My 2 bikes are both equiped with M8000 for... 3 or years I think, and I NEVER had any issue, even in extreme conditions such as hardcore bike parks, dogday spanish ride, steep pyrenean free rides...
Did you notice that Pinkbike often features Sram adverts but rarely Shimano adverts?... rather odd
  • 7 1
 @softsteel: Yes I feel that Pinkbike is pretty "red" labeled. I don't want to highlight Shimano against SRAM, but I do feel they get a little more hate than they deserve. Their brakes are excellent in my opinion. I did have some trouble with them over the last 10 years though, I think two leaking calipers, but I have to mention that they got replaced without any hassle. And thats what it's all about.

I saw a video somewhere, they tiltet the levers up and down while bleeding, to get rid of air bubbles in the reservoir, maybe that will help some people.

Also, almost everyone I know that had SRAM Guide Brakes HATED them and swapped them out for Maguras or Shimano. But somehow every Pinkbike review is praising them.

And thanks for the excessive neg. propping so my comment isn't visible Wink
  • 5 0
 @Bayonetwork: Haha!! I think the North-Americans have a stockholm syndrom with Sram brakes Wink
  • 2 1
 @Bayonetwork: There's no question in my mind that shimanos drivetrains are far superior, and while I do prefer their brakes to Sram as well, the wandering bitepoint is still a persistent issue. Apparently not everyone has the problem, but a lot of people do, including the latest generation of 4-piston calipers. When people are constantly debating shimano vs Sram brakes, I just have to roll my eyes... Hope brakes blow them both out of the water in every way.
  • 1 0
 I have never rode a bike with the M8000 or M9000 brakes that do not have this issue. I have rode perhaps a dozen bikes with those brakes and they work well, until you start really going fast in the rough stuff. Once that happens, the bite point starts jumping around from immediately once you touch the lever to down to the grip. If the bite point trended one way due to heat or something predictable that would be one thing, but when you brake for a corner and the front brake lever hits the grip, then you brake for the next corner, 50 feet later, and the front wheel locks up as you start to move the lever, that is a different story. It is super frightening and always forces me to back off, which cures the problem right away. I am not saying that Shimano cannot make good brakes. I have never heard of a Saint, Zee or any of the previous generations of brakes having this issue. I haven't tried the newer M7000 brakes which look similar to the M8000 style brakes, to know if they have the same issue.
  • 1 0
 @thegoodflow: I can't fathom why people believe that there are only two brands of brakes available.
  • 1 0
 @NWBasser:
True. My favorite that I have tried are SRAM but I really like my Maguras as well and Tektro are likely my next stoppers.
  • 3 0
 XL Geo looks absolutely spot on for me at 190cm. 65 rocker, Cane Creek inline progressive coil, Lyrik 180. Dream build!
  • 1 0
 I wonder if when @mikekazimer tested the Titan, the adjustable dropout was in high or low position.
Personally, I find too low of cranks dangerous, but it is a fragile balance.
  • 3 0
 I tried both settings on the Titan - you can read more here: www.pinkbike.com/news/review-banshee-titan-2020.html
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Having read your review, I could not find where you mentioned what your setup was, other than that you tried both. Is it fair to assume that what you're saying is "despite riding in the lower BB position, the BB height still wasn't as low as the Madonna v2, giving it more of a mob-over-anything freeride feel than a pedal-smacking slotcar feel?"
  • 1 0
 "and it's only exaggerated weight shifts towards the front of the bike that'll get the shock to dip into its travel a little bit."

Weight shift _towards the front_ makes the _rear dip down_??
  • 1 0
 "I'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between XT and XTR in a blind test – it's really only the weight and price that separates one from the other."

I thought this well fairly well known by now.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, since about the dawn of time.
  • 2 0
 Adjustable chainstay length! This sounds like a real winner - esp for a bike you can’t demo before purchase. Would be interested to know if MK tried out this feature.
  • 1 0
 “A bottle cage mount is standard on all sizes. Size small and medium can fit a 500 ml bottle, size large and extra-large have plenty of space for any bottle. Even beer.”

Yes!!
  • 1 0
 Um, no. I've spent many sleepless nights contemplating hauling beer in a bottle holder, but the ride would shake the crap out it and it would spew upon opening. I've found that a pack is about the only way to do it.
  • 1 0
 @NWBasser: depends on the beer... Guinness with its bubbles all trapped away in the widget until you open it, that's much more resilient against shake-induced explosions!
  • 1 0
 @just6979: Interesting. Too bad that I find Guiness to be watery. I much prefer imperial stouts. But if it survives a ride in the bottle holder, it might be a decent option on a hot summer day.
  • 2 0
 @NWBasser: well it is only 4.2% ABV. With about the same calories as a BL, but 100x the taste.
  • 1 0
 Absolute dream bike material! They really got their priorities right. Unfortunately it doesn't really fit either my style of riding nor the terrain around here. A shame they don't make a short travel trail bike (yet).
  • 3 0
 Meanwhile I am patiently waiting for Ruben to make a 130-140mm Trail 29er
  • 1 0
 You can only run the longer shock with the Rocker 60? Why not the Rocker 65, you know for the bigger guys, asking for a friend.
  • 5 1
 The Rocker 65 implies you’re already using the longer stroke shock to achieve a lower leverage ratio.
  • 1 0
 I believe hes asking something along the lines of "can you run a 70mm stroke shock on the 65 rocker".
I guess the limiting factor would be e2e measurements at full extension. You dont want to mess with that. Other than that as long as the rocker doesnt clash with the frame there would be no reason not to run the longest stroke possible
  • 2 1
 @gabriel-mission9: there is no such thing as a 205x70 shock so no you can’t
  • 1 0
 @philmtb99: the e2e doesnt seem to be stated anywhere in the article. Unless ive missed it
  • 1 0
 @philmtb99: Ok, that makes sense, I didn't know the Rocker 65 implied the longer shock.
  • 1 0
 I weigh close to 255 lbs geared up and I have a Rocker 65 on the V2 with a float X2. That rocker allows me to run about 240 psi in the shock and it is pretty nice at that pressure.
  • 1 0
 A comparison to the nomad 4 would be welcome. My N4 is setup with coil rear and 180mm up front which is daft for 80% of the riding I do but the 20% matters most.
  • 3 0
 sweet looking ride, wonder how it compares to the Privateer 161
  • 3 0
 Awesome no-nonsense bike, cant wait to see this vs the privateer 161
  • 2 0
 Is this the ultimate Bootleg Canyon bike, or is the bottom bracket just a bit too low to be optimal for Rocky desert chunk?
  • 2 0
 I picked up the v1 on sale from Ruben last month and am running it with 165mm cranks. I have been riding it down the steeps around Tucson where it’s plenty chunky and the BB is not really an issue.
  • 1 0
 @Huskr84: Thanks! If I end up getting two bikes, the RAAW seems the perfect for the big bike role.
  • 1 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes very interested in this bike, I am curious as maybe my attention to detail is lacking this morning. Are there ISCG05 tabs for bash guard/chain guide?
  • 1 0
 Yes, there are ISCG05 tabs. I own a V2, OneUp Bash Guide mounted.
  • 1 0
 I got a size m with a 65 rocker and a Float x2. Been riding carbon YTs for the last four + years and must say, this is one solid machine. No squeaky pf bb. It is what it is.
  • 1 2
 " ended up preferring the feel of the DPX2. It gave the bike a more lively, awake feel; the Float X2 muted some of that liveliness, and made the bike feel a little sluggish on more rolling terrain."

That's a ridiculous statement. Pretty sure an X2 can be tuned to feel pretty damn close to a DPX2. That's kind of the point of it having all those adjustments...
  • 2 0
 You can not make poppets behave like shims...
  • 1 0
 the X2 has a much larger positive air chamber, and IDK if you can put enough spacers in there to get the progression of a DPX2
  • 1 2
 @hamncheez: He said sluggish on rolling terrain. That's really not got so much to do with deep end stroke progression provided by maxing out volume spacers. That's usually low- to mid-speed damping.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: yes, but you can get the overall tune pretty close. He didn't say he missed the (less ideal over poppet according to Fox and Push and a bunch of others) shim feel, he said it felt sluggish, which can be tuned out and is literally the point of the tuning range of the X2.
  • 5 0
 @just6979, have you ridden both shocks back to back? There is a noticeable difference in how they feel, even with rebound speed and amount of compression set similarly.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: You go deeper in the travel than you expect on flow trails & with small jumps, damping makes the bike feel dead
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer: "set similarly"? Like same clicks? What about air spring volume? Or same numbers on a dyno? Because the former isn't possible, because different number of clicks, and likely different ranges (DPX2 doesn't have high-speed clickers and even putting low-speed in the middle on both doesn't mean the same damping).

Yes, I understand they feel different, since they are different systems, but to say the X2 can't be tuned to be "better" (for most/all values of better) than a DPX2, well, I'll bet Jordi would have something to say about that.
  • 1 2
 @zyoungson: And the X2 has far more damping adjustment than the DPX2, so it should be possible to tune away the dead feel. Slam the compression shut, open the rebound wide, fill it with volume spacers, boost the PSI, and the X2 will be poppy AF.
  • 3 1
 newmEn weels. E. Great bike!
  • 7 0
 You're going to regret not proof reading that.
  • 1 0
 @Wimpyal: this is more a keyboard hardware issue
  • 5 0
 @Wimpyal: well, it is not Newman with an a. Not sorry for the proofreading, but actually sorry for being "that" guy Wink
  • 3 3
 Unfortunate title as we seem to be living in the apocalypse, which has also in many areas caused mountain biking to be banned. Sick bike though.
  • 2 0
 I would bet the title was deliberate.
  • 3 0
 @iamamodel: this is the bike for the apocalypse where rocks have become zombies and the only way to save the world is to smash them with a front wheel. The best bike for this apocalypse would be the one that doesn't bring a tear to your eye as it sits unused in the living room or maybe a road bike
  • 3 0
 Braawley nice bike
  • 2 0
 bike looks sik and very well priced to
  • 1 0
 Please add a mainstream brand in comparison too, like a Trek, Specialized, Santacruz or Yeti.
  • 2 0
 Great to see external cable routing again!
  • 2 0
 Site now says it has an Exo+ rear tyre & Fox 38.
Gimme!
  • 6 0
 The specs are updated for future delivery. 2021 fox, 38, exo+ and the updated Newmen wheels.
  • 1 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes:
Any stock in size small for complete build?
I can see that there is a small frame set available.
  • 1 0
 @KCsyd: There is, but frame only.
  • 1 3
 this bike is perfect in so many ways to me, shame is way, way, way overkill for most of my riding...
I'd be all in for a trail version, same features and build, just a bit less slack, a bit less travel, a bit less 29" wheels.
  • 1 0
 That is one cleanlooking frame... Raw and simple - yes please! More of this!
  • 1 0
 Lol “desenge” @4:07

Move over downcountry, desenge is the word for 2020
  • 2 0
 With that price it must be welded in Germany.
  • 1 0
 Why? There is so much more knowledge, historical experience and expertise for Bikeframe welding in Taiwan. I‘m from Germany and im proud of the Tag „made in Germany“ but i‘d rather final assemble a well welded Frame from Taiwan in Germany than do everything in Germany at cost of best possible Quality...
  • 1 1
 @screwbox: It's a lot of money for a Horst aluminum east asian frame.
  • 2 0
 Lady Madonna out on the trails, looking for another berm rail!
  • 2 0
 Waiting for the hype to settle down so I can actually buy one
  • 2 0
 RAAW, you had my curiosity but now you have my attention!
  • 2 0
 Thanks for the rad review @mikekazimer
  • 2 0
 2 bottle mounts............................................priceless
  • 1 0
 @RAAWMountainBikes: Any plans on a bike with less travel? I think I`m not the only one interested in such a bike from Raaw.
  • 3 1
 Where’s the 27.5 option??
  • 2 1
 "We were hoping to get a sidebar in the next PB Field Trip about how were the fastest by 1.4% on Contrived Route #1. So we said screw those guys who still want super tough wheels and tires without as much rotating weight penalty."

(To everyone else, yes, I know 29ers seem to "feel" just as manueverable and flickable now, but it's just physics: 27s on a same/similar bike are MORE of both. If you value those things over raw speed, then 27 is the better choice.)
  • 1 0
 @just6979: why are 27 more maneuverable at moderate speeds?
  • 2 0
 @thegoodflow: Physics. At any speed. Less rotating weight means less energy needed to move the wheels and thus the entire bike.
  • 1 0
 @just6979: cuz science, bitches. Ok. But what if a bike weren't just a gyroscope at the science museum? Could there be other factors that allow a human to maneuver a bike in a different way, than implied by simply looking at the gyroscopic and moment of inertia effects in isolation and on paper? Could it be possible that those new 29ers feel more maneuverable because they actually are? You know, with humans aboard, out on trails and stuff? And, does it even matter? If the new school 29s feel maneuverable, can't we assume that this is because they are actually maneuverable? Asking for science. You seemed like you've got a solid grasp of physics, so I was hoping you could explain.
  • 2 0
 @thegoodflow: I'm noy saying modern 29ers aren't good. I'm saying that if you're not looking for max speed and more rollover, 27 might be a better choice. If modern 29ers "feel" maneuverable, then it follows that a modern 27 would be even more so. Just as it follows that slope and DJ are still on 26...

So sure, you'll "get used to it" on a 29er, and eventually be able to flick the bike around like you could on a 26 or 27. But I'd rather get used to whipping my 27er just that little bit further, instead of getting used to managing the biike ol' wagon wheels. I'd rather have to put up a little fight with the trail to get the perfectish line to make that new rock to rock double I just found, instead of my massive wheels making everything seem smoother. For that I wouldn't be on a mountain bike, I'd be on the road.

Yes, there are limits. There is a reason we're not all on 20" wheels (But, look at what Ruben Alcantara is doing! Shit yeah!). But the industry and media really is pushing _everyone_ (adult) to 29ers like it's the greatest f*cking thing since sliced-bread-that-is-auto-toasted. I mean, I'm pretty sure the latest Field Trip only had one 27.5, but two hardtails (both 29). Shit, one of my local shops only stocks 29ers (for MTBs). The only 27.5 in the store is on the models where the S and XS don't come in 29. Allegedly that's all people are buying. However if they can't test/demo any 27s, and there literally aren't any to even look at or just sit on, that logic is a little flawed.

Kids can be too small for even a 26" wheel bike, but all adults, small and tall, are expected to fit on a 29er nowadays. If I was 6'4", I'd be so happy there are 29ers and XXL frames that really fit me. But I'm not, and neither is the average male, and especially not the average female. So why does a 5'1" person who fits maybe a 380mm reach want to deal with the same 435mm chainstay (because can't go much/any smaller on a 29er) as the 6'4" dude on 510mm reach? That's insane, those bikes would ride so differently. Plus the smaller person has even less mass to push around those big wheels with, so while they'll "get used to it", they'll be trading that for "getting used to" snapping around corners even tighter, throwing even bigger whips, and doing manuals so well you could just take your front wheel right off (because chainstays that much longer than reach, like a S or XS 29er, makes for a hard-to-lift front wheel).

*I'm actually all-for wheel sizes matching frame sizes: racers probably will choose the biggest they can get comfortable on (When do we see Minnaar on 31" or whatever? He's already got the chainstay length for it!), but for Average Joe and Jill, a more realistic size with balanced geometry front-to-rear (which is impossible in smaller sizes with needing to fit a 29er inside the chainstays.), that is going to be _so_ much more fun. And the "small" wheels will still go fast enough to scare the shit out of yourself every if you want to.

Most people benefit more from a balanced, adaptable, well-fitting bike, rather that one that is designed around the biggest wheels available just because those wheels are some tiny percent faster at the very top upper level of the sport. Jamming those wheels into the smaller end of a size range is going to have some compromises.

Regarding rollover, it's marketed as being able to, and does, literally makes the trail seem smoother. Is that really what we want? Considering how often people bitch about "everything is a flow trail now"... maybe not? I, for one, mountain bike _because_ there are rocks and roots and trees and everything in/on the trail. Would I trade those trails feeling a little smoother and not having to worry about picking a line as much, for having to pick and think and work for my line a tiny bit harder but also be able to dodge, dip, duck, dive, and dodge with less energy (because science)? No. Sure maybe I'm 1 minute slower over a few miles, who cares? And if you do, why not just get stronger? A core 29er group likes them because they tend to go uphill faster, and they like going up fast because they're very fit and they like being fit. So wouldn't the"less efficient" 27er be a better choice, because it will literally make you fitter by not being as easy rolling (but still easy rolling; I mean come on, it's not like we're comparing rollover between 29er and 16" wheels)

Again, I'm not saying get rid of 29ers (like the way the industry booted 26. Just think how hard it is to get good 26" parts, which still work on the same trails as ever, if some places already don't even stock 27s). Just that it's not a one-size-fits all thing. Yes,modern geo has made 29ers damn-good, but that means it can be even more damn-gooder on smaller wheels.
  • 1 0
 When the hell will they be available? They are all sold out in every damn frame!? ????‍♂️ They look Mega siiiiick!
  • 1 0
 Ready for Apocalypse bike should have only home/wasteland serviceable parts Smile
  • 2 0
 27.5 version, and I would be all over it
  • 1 3
 Regarding the brakes, for Gods sake, why 8100 when you can have 8120 4-piston, which have more modulation, more power, and guess what, do not suffer from wandering bike point.
  • 2 0
 The complete builds from RAAW come with 8120 4-pot brakes! Must be a mixup from pink bike.
  • 4 0
 I had wandering bite point with 8120
  • 5 1
 From my experience bite point is a BIG problem with shimano. Next biggest problem is finding seals for the lever as well as o ring piatons etc. Now you screw a 50cent seal and need to buy a whole lever for $50
I love shimano when they work good but thats only two pulls of the lever....
  • 1 0
 I have recently changed from 8000 caliper to 7120 caliper and the brake is much more consistent. It depends what you mean by wandering bite point. If you try grabbing your lever few times in a row quickly the bite point will move an it is the same in all servo wave Shimano brakes I had. But when riding this effect was simply gone when I changed the caliper.
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: Interesting, that you seem to have narrowed it down to the caliper. Always heard that it had something to do with the piston seals, perhaps durometer of the rubber?
  • 1 0
 Still my Dreambike! V2 looks even cooler than V1.
  • 1 0
 Looks and sounds great, why the relatively short 2 year warranty though?
  • 1 0
 What tool is hanging from the top tube in the video thumbnail?
  • 3 2
 Best cornering bike with 440mm chainstays?? Mmmh...
  • 1 0
 Awesome component spec on this unicorn.
  • 1 0
 I’d throw in the radon swoop in as a comparison also
  • 1 0
 Take my money!...but seriously, when back in stock?
  • 2 0
 Izzo Norco Sight
  • 1 0
 Orbea Rallon anyone, Bueller ?...
  • 1 0
 Awesome concept. Cable routing is pure comedy.
  • 1 4
 "it's just that even with a perfect bleed the bite point can change from one pull of the lever to the next."

Then it's not really a "perfect bleed". Or there is flex around the hub causing pad knock-back. Or mineral oil really does suck as a brake fluid: its hydrophobic properties are really a bad thing: water will get in, and then pool together where it can then boil at its much lower boiling point and change the system characteristics. Perfect bleed" ruined. With DOT fluids, water ingress just lowers the boiling point of the whole system, but it is still well above what normal riders can do.

Unless someone can give a plausible mechanical explanation of how a bite-point could change internally without fluid gain or loss, can we just drop this topic forever?
  • 1 0
 Other mineral oil brakes like the TRP Quadiem don't seem to have these issues.
  • 1 0
 @NWBasser: What's the bleed procedure on the TRPs? Perhaps it's Shimano's weird bleed system, and people aren't getting the "perfect bleed" they think they are...
  • 1 0
 @just6979: I don't know what the TRP bleed procedure is. Shimano's are very easy to bleed. There are a whole lot of people experiencing the wandering bite point issue. Probably too many to blame on bad bleeds. It can't be fluid loss, because then the bite point would just stay low and never return.
  • 1 0
 It's must be 4 20 I'm seeing Radical Dragons!
  • 2 3
 As for now, I'm not into full sussers, but this bike would be very high on my list.
  • 3 4
 It looks like............... a very beautiful bike. Just the name sucks. I would have named it the Nina Hagen Smile
  • 2 3
 I'd rather bring a steel hard tail with 650B plus tires and a coil fork to the apocalyps ;p
  • 2 0
 You`re completely right!!!
Don`t worry if a majority of mtbikers don`t understand that statement; they just can`t ;-)
  • 1 1
 Sweet looking ride is that
  • 2 3
 You guys are slacking, finally a full-floater rear end bike and not a single damn 'looks like a Session' comment.
  • 3 0
 Look again, it's not a full floater. Lower shock mount is not part of the chainstay.
  • 1 0
 @thegoodflow: Damn, so it is how did I miss that.
  • 1 1
 Looks like a Trek Full Floater. Would love to try it tho!
  • 1 1
 Well, we wanted to build a Trek Slash. Then this happened.
  • 1 0
 Awesome job Ruben!
  • 1 1
 Has anyone ridden it with a coil over?
  • 1 1
 Oh me likey
  • 1 2
 Looks awesome and at a great price.......but I still don’t want a 29er.
  • 11 14
 Man I'd ride that thing like a virgin, I wouldn't care what my parents say I'd tell them, Papa dont preach.
  • 4 1
 what.
  • 2 2
 @chyu: pop culture reference
  • 1 0
 @chyu: Madonna's big d*ck.
  • 7 9
 Looks like a remedy
  • 1 5
flag lake-st (Apr 20, 2020 at 6:27) (Below Threshold)
 The lower shock mount is the same as the older Remedy, very plush too.
  • 1 0
 Brilliant comment, Bandwagon. Tell us more!
  • 3 0
 @lake-st: Nope, lower shock mount is not part of the chainstay.
  • 2 0
 @thegoodflow: Looked again I am 100% wrong shock is not attached to the stays.
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