Review: Shimano Deore M6100 12-Speed Drivetrain - Low Price, High Performance

Nov 4, 2020
by Mike Kazimer  

Shimano's Deore M6100 12-speed drivetrain brings much of the technology found on their flagship XTR components down to a very reasonable pricepoint. In fact, you can get the entire group – derailleur, shifter, cranks, and cassette, for only $40 more than an XTR derailleur alone.

The focus of this review is on the 12-speed drivetrain and its 10-51 tooth cassette that uses a Micro Spline freehub body, but there are 11- and 10-speed options available for riders who don't want (or need) to run a dozen gears.

We went over the details of the new M6100 group when it was launched in May, but it's worth taking a moment to go over the key details.
Deore M6100 Details
• 12-speed, 10-51 tooth cassette
• Hyperglide+ cassette and chain technology
• Requires Micro Spline freehub body
• Direct mount chainring
• Adjustable clutch derailleur
• Price: $298 USD (cassette, derailleur, cranks, shifter, chain)
www.bike.shimano.com




Details

Cassette / Chain: The 12-speed, 10-51 tooth cassette is the heart of the drivetrain, an all-steel affair that weighs in at 593 grams. For comparison, that's 59 grams heavier than an SLX cassette, and 123 grams more than XT.

The easiest way to differentiate Shimano's 12-speed cassettes is to count the number of black anodized aluminum cogs. XTR gets three, XT gets two, SLX gets one, and, you guessed it, Deore gets none. A Micro Spline driver body is required to mount any of Shimano's 12-speed cassettes.

The Deore cassette and chain uses Shimano's Hyperglide+ technology, which is designed to allow for smooth shifting under load. That's accomplished by the shift ramps on the cassette and the shape of the chain. That chain is a key part of the equation, and while it is possible to run a non-Shimano chain you'll be missing out on getting the full benefits of Hyperglide+.



Shifter: The shapes of Shimano's 12-speed shifters are similar, as are the weights (there's only a few grams difference between them), but there are a few details that set them apart. With Deore (and SLX), Multi-Release is taken off the table – that's the feature that makes it possible to shift two gears down the cassette with one push. Intead, pushing the smaller paddle drops the chain down the cassette one cog at a time. Moving up the cassette to easier gears is done with the larger paddle, and a longer push can move the chain up the cassette three cogs at a time.

The Deore shifter does have some texturing on the thumb paddles for extra traction, but it doesn't get the rubber pads found on the XT and XTR levers.

Derailleur: The Deore derailleur uses Shimano's adjustable clutch design, which has a lever located near the upper pulley wheel that's used to turn it off to simplify wheel removal. The derailleur uses bushings on the pulley wheels instead of the cartridge bearings found on the XT and XTR derailleurs, and the pulley cages are both steel, rather than aluminum or carbon.

Those design choices put the weight at 318 grams, which is just 2 grams lighter than SLX. XT is a fair bit lighter, at 287 grams, and of course, XTR is the lightest at 242 grams, although you could buy four Deore derailleurs for less than the price of one XTR.

Cranks / Chainring: The 12-speed compatible Deore cranks are single ring only, and use Shimano's direct mount rings. There are 30- and 32-tooth options at the Deore level, but SLX chainrings are available with 34 teeth, and XT options run from 28 all the way to 36. The cranks are made from forged aluminum, rather than using the HollowTech II construction process used on the higher level cranks. This could be an easy area to shed some weight without needing to cough up too much extra cash – SLX cranks are only $10 more, and they weigh 130 grams less.



Installation

Installation was hassle free, and I was able to get everything up and running with ease. I'm still a big fan of the little line on the back of the inner derailleur cage that makes it easy to set the proper B-tension – there's no need to keep track of a silly little plastic gauge with Shimano's design.

There is one tip to keep in mind – a liberal application of grease on the Micro Spline driver body will help keep any potential creaking at bay. Shimano's 12-speed cassettes do seem a little more prone to emitting the occasional creak compared to SRAM's, but in my experience it's usually due to not enough grease on the driver body.




Performance

It's easy to equate a budget drivetrain with sub-par performance – cheap, plasticy shift levers, vague shifting, derailleurs that fold in half at the slightest impact – those traits often start to pop up as the price goes down. However, the Deore M6100 components are a glaring exception to the rule. Sure, compared to XTR the shifting isn't quite as silky smooth, and you can't shift down the cassette more than one gear at a time like you can with Shimano's higher end shifters, but those are minuscule details when the price is added into the equation.

Honestly, without knowing the weight, it'd be easier to convince someone that this was a much higher end drivetrain. In fact, when I first got the group I kept having other riders hop on and give it a try in order to feel just how nice it felt. The shifts are quick and require minimal effort, and even when I shifted hard under load the chain would move up and settle into place without putting up any sort of fuss - that Hyperglide+ design works very well. There is a noticeable difference between the feel of a Deore and an XT shifter - XT has a more positive, snappy feel, while Deore has a lighter, but not quite as crisp feel, although the actual speed and accuracy of shifting between the two felt identical.

I didn't experience any missed shifts, dropped chains (even without a chain guide), or anything at all that would take my attention away from the trail.




Durability

The Deore group's durability has been very impressive. After nearly six months of regular use there haven't been any issues to speak of. The crank arms do have the typical scuff marks that inevitably appear after a few muddy rides, but it's minor considering how many miles are on them.

The cassette is still looking fresh too – the steel rings clean up nicely, and there aren't any glaring indicators of all the hard shifting and grime it was subjected to. As for the derailleur, it bears a few marks from close encounters with rocks, but the clutch is still working like it should, and the pulley wheels are spinning smoothly.




Shimano Deore vs. SRAM NX

Deore and NX occupy a similar space – this is the pricepoint where components make the jump from being better suited to casual riders to ones that can withstand the use and abuse a more dedicated mountain biker will dole out, so it's worth taking a moment to compare them. SRAM does have a less expensive 12-speed drivetrain in their lineup - SX - but it's only found on complete bikes, and isn't readily available aftermarket.

Both company's shifters can be mounted to their brake levers – Deore is offered in an I-SPEC EV version, and the NX shifter is MatchMaker compatible. As far as shifter feel and shifting performance goes, I'd say Shimano handily takes the win here. The little ridges on the Deore shift lever and the ease with which the chain moves through the gears gives Deore a more refined feel.

Speaking of cassettes, Deore wins when it comes to range, with a 10-51 tooth spread vs. the 11-50 tooth spread that NX uses. I also prefer the 45-51 tooth jump over the 42-50 tooth jump on the NX cassette, although that's a fairly minor detail – at that point on a ride you're usually just looking to find the easiest gear possible as soon as you can to get up some silly steep section of trail.

Don't forget that NX uses a standard splined freehub body, rather than SRAM's XD driver, while Deore needs a Micro Spline freehub body. That can be looked at two different ways - on one hand, if you have a standard splined freehub than NX makes it possible to get 12 speeds without any additional hub parts. On the other hand, that means if you wanted to upgrade to a higher end Eagle cassette in the future you'd need to get a different freehub body first. With Shimano, the Deore- to XTR-level cassettes all use the same Micro Spline freehub design.

The Deore derailleur’s adjustable clutch gives it another point over SRAM – I'd much rather have a rebuildable and tunable clutch over being stuck with SRAM’s one fixed setting, which is often too light for my tastes.

As far as weight goes, the complete NX group is lighter than Deore by 73 grams, a difference that's mainly due to the cranks - NX cranks are lighter by 76 grams. When it comes to price, Deore is the less expensive choice, largely because the derailleur is half the price of the NX option.


Shimano SLX 12-speed
For $10 more you can get a set of SLX cranks and save 147 grams.
Shimano XT 12-speed
An XT shifter is another worthwhile upgrade due to its Multi-Release shifting capabilities.

Getting the Most Bang For Your Buck

My ideal setup, one that keeps costs low with a few higher end bits added into the mix? First, I'd splurge on an XT shifter, in order to get that multi-release capability. Yes, it's an extra $30 more than Deore, but I think it's a worthy upgrade. The next place I'd spend would be on cranks – I'd bump up to SLX, since paying $10 to save 130 grams seems like a great deal.

Other than that, I wouldn't change a thing, and I'd be totally happy running that setup on any bike out there, no matter how fancy the other parts were. I'd rather put my money into nicer suspension and brakes; the Deore drivetrain works so well there's really no need to spend any more other than to save some weight.


Pros

+ Incredible price vs performance ratio
+ Adjustable clutch derailleur
+ Doesn't feel like a 'budget' drivetrain
Cons

- Cassette and cranks aren't for gram counters
- Need to upgrade to an XT shifter if you want Multi-Release



Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesShimano absolutely nailed it with the new Deore group, creating a budget-friendly drivetrain that leaves little to be desired when it comes to its performance out on the trail. It's very, very highly recommended for anyone looking to enter the 12-speed world without breaking the bank

Here's hoping that we see these parts become a common sight in 2021 as the next wave of more affordable bikes hit the market.
Mike Kazimer







331 Comments

  • 292 41
 Another nail in coffin for GX
  • 217 22
 GX is fine these days and its not going anywhere. The newest refresh makes it at a very minimum look premium. Now don't get me wrong, I'd take most shimano drivetrains over it in a heartbeat, but it's perfectly fine. This kills NX and SX though, which is well deserved.
  • 102 117
flag honda50r (Nov 4, 2020 at 7:38) (Below Threshold)
 @j-t-g: GX is garbage. It was rolled out too quickly and the performance reflects. Shimano 12 speed is superior to Sram offerings
  • 49 9
 I agree with you. Shimano 12 is much better. But now in the second generation of GX its "fine".
  • 74 12
 Never had a problem with GX. I'm on my second set (new bike), superior performance. Outstanding.
  • 42 2
 I really really like shimano over sram. But I have gx on my current bike, and 11spd gx on my old bike. Both have been absolutly abused and very very neglected. Overall, it works fine. Replace chains more than needed and haven't had to replace a single drivetrain part on either bike.
  • 42 3
 I agree, when working the new shimano stuff is better. But why is nobody talking about the failing clutches? I’ve had issues with 2 different new shimano 12 speed derailleurs that basically don’t work after 300 miles.
  • 15 4
 @j-t-g: Imo GX is a bit too expensive to be relevant. It might be fine if you look at it in isolation, but not compared to Shimano's 12 speed product range
  • 64 3
 @honda50r: GX is definitley not "garbage" SMH. SX and NX are, but GX definitley isn't.
  • 26 16
 I have been riding the slx group set for this season and it has truly been nothin but a bad experience. Had to get the cassette replaced within the first 10 rides. (Rivets were faulty) my pedal just mangled all the threads in my slx crank (yes my pedals were tight) and hub needed new bearings within like 3-4 months.

Besides the point, shimano has been very good with the warranty and I have not had to replace anything on my own dime.

The girlfriend has the gx stuff and it always seems to be running good. Nothing breaks. Just reliable. (Thought I should mention, I am also quite a bit heavier then her)

The shimano 4pistin brakes have been amazing. I like the shifter a little better. But I am a little sour about the “microspline” I couldn’t get one for the longest time for my hope pro2 so I just ended up switching

New shimano stuff is good but not great. Still would take gx over the slx anyway
  • 32 1
 Two bikes with GX and they have performed flawlessly. I would take Deore over NX or SX all day though. IMO SRAM and Shimano are, at the mid price point and above, both shift great and either way deliver a good, reliable riding experience.
  • 7 12
flag lkubica (Nov 4, 2020 at 8:39) (Below Threshold)
 @Woodrats: You needed a new bearings ona Shimano hub? Are you sure? Cause you know, they are not replaceable..
  • 11 8
 @Woodrats:
I agree with you about the slx group set being a total problem. I have had issues from day one with the derailleur and the xt hub was the worst piece of technology put out. I have replaced that with a spank hex-j on one wheel set and hydra on the second.

Good luck getting anything from Shimano at the moment.

When the time comes, and it won't be long I will be switching back to GX.
  • 14 0
 @Cambot: Me too! Bought an SLX at REI, so I just returned it when the clutch crapped out, but now the new one is going bad again. . .
  • 3 1
 @GumpiDemo: I wish I had the same experience but as well as @j-t-g it's always been "good enough" on both of my bikes. I get most of the gears. Never had a more fiddly drivetrain in my 30 years of riding.
  • 8 1
 @Cambot: Or the exploding microspline bodies on Shimano hubs. I guess you should be fine if your hub is from another brand
  • 1 1
 Mano drops Mic
  • 14 0
 @lkubica: Uhhhhhhh regreasing and replacing the ball bearings is a yearly bit of maintenance for nearly all Shimano hubs, though the MT410 (I think that's the part number) now comes with sealed bearings. Replacing the bearing races isn't possible, but the balls themselves should be changed out, or at the very least cleaned every year.

I will say that the design of the microspline hubs results in a HUGE length of unsupported axle on the driveside, very bad for bearing/axle longevity.
  • 8 5
 @j-t-g: What's so bad about NX? I ride NX and XT/SLX 11-speed and it's hard to say which is better for me. Is just NX 12-speed that bad?
  • 8 3
 @lkubica: how did you come to conclusion that cup and cone bearings cannot be replaced?
  • 7 1
 Doubt it. is it better than NX? I'd say yes, I would take a deore over NX. The NX is alright but the deore is just better as long as you can get the correct hub.

But would I take a deore over GX? nope... specially with the new 10-52 derailleurs, not because of the range, but because they're definitely stronger now that i've installed a couple of them.

Now that I'd really like is a proper di2 XT with an integrated battery, and XT brakes that fix the weird loss of power issue. I think high quality with long battery life would be a great alternative to AXS, specially with the better shimano shifting.

Until then, I'll keep running GX and XX1 on bikes though.. and deore on cheaper builds (i build bikes for friends a lot)_
  • 11 2
 @mnorris122: Wow, I had multiple shimano hubs and never ever needed to replace balls. Just a little cup tightning and that's all. Some hubs are running like 15 years now. It sounds very ulikely. To do such a damege you would have to run them not tightened at all in the mountains. Those bearing are simply ethernal when serviced properly,
  • 13 5
 The refreshed GX Eagle Lunar is far superior to Shimano 12 sp IMO. Much sturdier rear mech, the clutch does not stick, better shift feel, cassettes not biting the freehub body...
  • 2 0
 @KalkhoffKiller: I have not ridden NX, I have GX and it has been very solid. When I bought my last bike NX was an option, in taking a good look at NX it has a lot of plasticy pieces and does not present like GX and above or Deore or above for Shimano. From my perspective Shimano gear has a consistent level of quality a step above the lesser offerings of SRAM.
  • 3 1
 @Mondbiker: the balls are, but the races aren't. So the bearing as a whole cannot be completely replaced. Most people understand it when you mean the balls though.
  • 5 0
 @lkubica: It really depends on your riding conditions and how you wash your bike. Smile When I worked as a mechanic i've dealt with cheweed up and/or rusty cup and cone hubs every day (Shimano and all kinds of other hubs).
It's not a bad idea to replace the balls every know and then when you open up the hub anyways to clean and grease it, since the balls are dirt cheap.
If the balls actually get damaged (seen that a few times) by that time the cups and the cones are long gone as well.
  • 3 0
 @Cambot: This is a very easy fix... and takes no more than 5min. Remove the clutch cover, clean and regrease.
  • 1 1
 @KalkhoffKiller: NX and SX have poor quality control and reliability. Many users won't ever know this because most sets are totally fine. But if you work at a shop you'll see the vast majority of grenaded drivetrain parts on decent bikes come straight out of these two drivetrains. It seems like if you keep it running for a couple months, that set is in no danger - the failures all come within the first few weeks of riding in most situations.
  • 1 0
 @j-t-g: Sram NX is so bad that after spending a couple hours tuning everything to spec, I still have to manually kick my derailleur in gear. I want to clutch kick my car not my bike.
  • 2 0
 @DaFreerider44: That's just it - some sets shift like absolute shit, and some shift totally fine all other things equal. Poor QC practices at SRAM.

Also they sometimes snap in half.
  • 3 3
 @Woodrats: XD driver was the most stupid thing ever, not required and only reason we have micro spline, plus SRAM wont put their cheap 12s cassettes on it so you have few choices to mix and match NX to GX bit while Shimano all interchangeable.
I've had zero issues with SLX, sometimes you get duds.
  • 4 2
 I’ve had two gx drivetrains with over 2500 miles on each, a third NX with 1,000 miles on it, all the original except the chains which I just upgraded for the hell of it. I never had a single shifting issue, never a dropped chain....except for when my hub failed. I didn’t even use a new a shift cable this year. Why would I ever switch? I oft wonder if most people just need a little humble pie and a course from the LBS of how to maintain and adjust a drivetrain. Everything I have works great and is light and durable.
  • 4 0
 @thisspock: Man you'd think they'd teach me how to maintain a derailleur before they had me work at a bike shop but you know...
  • 2 0
 @KalkhoffKiller: it’s not that bad. This is Pinkbike though, so hatred of components must be exclaimed. I got a second bike that came with SX, which I planned on changing out ASAP. I didn’t get around to switching it out until Shia Spring and everything was out of stock. I ended up just riding it a bunch expecting it to fail catastrophically since Pinkbike comments said it would. Well, it’s still going strong. I’m relatively hard on drivetrain components generally, so I was pleasantly surprised.
  • 2 0
 @embi: I have to agree with you on the Lunar refresh of GX. SRAM seems to have made a superior product to the prior model and overall I've been very happy with my GX lunar rear mech compared to the non-lunar one
  • 8 15
flag thenotoriousmic (Nov 4, 2020 at 18:00) (Below Threshold)
 @thisspock: it’s just a small vocal minority of angry old shimano fanboys talking nonsense on pinkbike meanwhile in the real world sram absolutely dominates sales wise and any pro that doesn’t have a parts sponsor rides sram. It’s absolutely hilarious reading some of these comments, anyone seriously comparing deore to GX needs ignoring completely. Everything I’ve bought from shimano over the last five years has been absolute crap. The new 12 speed stuff doesn’t seem to be holding up well and after ten years they still haven’t fixed the random bite point issues and leaky pistons. I have gone through 7 shimano callipers in two years. All my sram stuff works better, lasts way longer and requires way less maintenance but costs more. Well worth it in my opinion.
  • 2 2
 @lkubica: You can replace them. It’s been a while since I’ve done this but I used to get a deore front hub of crc for around £15 take the axel out. Heat the outside of the hub with a heat gun and tap with a rubber mallet until the cup falls out. Repeat and replace.
  • 2 0
 @brumos: no they are a whole nother level of crusty rusty inside than any previous derailleurs. They truly do have a sealing issue, and the first production runs of XT had little to no grease to begin with. I dont know if it is the P-knuckle seal, the clutch cover seal, or the adjustment access plug, but they get moisture inside waaaaaaaaaay to easily. Shimano has since been greasing them more, but were tight lipped about any real running changes - which means not yet anyway...
It is a real issue. If you have a shimano 12 speed derailleur, open it up and grease it often, even before you use it the first time...if you do that, then I agree it is fine. But seriously they cannot be compared to previous generations which really had no issues other than pulleys for years...
  • 4 0
 @Cambot: the clutches are serviceable. some derailers leave the factory without enough grease in them which leads to premature ‘sticking’. just needs more grease. there is a great youtube tutorial on how to disassemble and lube the clutch. mine’s been ticking for a year since i greased it properly.
  • 2 0
 @jdh: omg just grease the clutch. they are not ‘going bad’. just needs grease. watch a tutorial on youtube
  • 2 3
 after going to a box 2 prime 9 drivetrain.. its a nail in the coffin for both SRAM and Shimano 12 speed drivetrains (too expensive, too finicky and unless you are doing XC riding, too many gears placed too close together (ratio wise)
  • 1 1
 @Cambot: right? My clutch has never dialed in for me. It seems to change tensions whenever it feels like it which is constantly and the stupid gasket that is supposed to seal the clutch compartment in my opinion should be fixed to one side so I don't have to deal with that nonsense. Never fails that I think I have it on properly and tighten it down and then next time I get my rig wet the shifting goes bad and it's because water got into the clutch. That gasket is useless. And I've never like the way my catch has worked for wheel removal and disengaging the clutch. It's has never seemed to close properly to engage the clutch despite spending some time trying to get it dialed in. I have on many other systems but it seems the luck of the draw in getting one that works perfectly and one that is nothing but trouble. Do something about the clutch Shimano. I love the job it does but I think you can redesign it to be better. Happy trailing y'all. ????
  • 3 0
 @lkubica: over tightening likely. It kills cup/cone bearings then it kills the freehub bearings. I know. I did it for years. Wears them out fast.
  • 2 0
 @lkubica: obviously they are replaceable...who would make a hub with non replaceable bearings...?
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I though me and my buds were the only ones. Speaking of shifting, the new 12 s Shimano derailleurs still have that tendency to get the derailleur links twisted. Then it's either good shifting on the large end of the cassette or on the small one, but you can't get both unless you buy a new mech. Funny thing it has been like this since the old M737 XT series
  • 2 0
 @lukazy: omg, get off your high horse. Should a less than 3 month old derailleur have RUST in the clutch? Mine did, and at that point greasing it was just polishing a turd. You can bet I'm checking it now, but it shouldn't happen in the first place.
  • 3 0
 @j-t-g: exactly.

Shimano XT is better but if you have GX its not worth to upgrade because the difference isnt that big IMO.
i have recently installed the new XT group. (havent had the chance to test it tho.)

There are a few things that Shimano doesnt do better that Sram
To begin. I spec bullshit. honestly this is so irritating. there are like 4 or 5 different versions. As far as i know Sram only has matchmaker so everything fits to everything. This is the single most irritating thing about shimano.
Also the cage lock on Sram derraileurs is neat and deserves kudo's.

I havent been able to test my bike because i found out my old derailleur used a direct mount. so i needed to change the hanger. (new hanger in tomorrow.)

The multirelease on the shifter tho is gold. That alone would make me go shimano. (plus the fact that Shimano is the brand i went for since i started mountainbiking and it has never ever let me down).

My girlfriend has GX. and i will admit that the shifter is very smooth and the release has a short throw. it also shifts good. I cannot imagine myself replacing a GX set for XT or SLX. Shimano isnt that much better.
  • 1 0
 @lukazy: I properly greased the old clutches as per what I found on the inter webs months ago. I even replaced a clutch, no dice. I had one slx go completely bad, a deore is now going out, my sister’s slx went bad. I do have an Xt going strong after 600 miles. A guys at our LBS said shimano had a bad batch.
  • 1 0
 @brumos: I tried this of course. Not working for me. I even replaced a clutch.
  • 1 1
 @j-t-g: My experience has been NX shifters being a problem holding onto the cable, SX derailleurs snapping at the mounting bolt because the derailleur is made of plastic there and XT and SLX failing in the parrallelogramme pins.
Both brands have their problems.
  • 1 5
flag thenotoriousmic (Nov 5, 2020 at 5:33) (Below Threshold)
 @Vindiu: No it’s pretty much everyone, next time you’re in a bike shop and if you can find a bike with a shimano group set, go grab the bottom jockey wheel and give it a wiggle and see how much wobble there is compared to a sram mech and this is before it’s even been used. It’s cheap and poorly built and that’s why it never lasts and it never really works perfectly but you’ll still get deluded moron pinkbikers saying ridiculous stuff in the comments.
  • 3 0
 @Cambot: i have maybe 150 Miles on my XT clutch and it started to behave weird and a lot of squeaky sounds when moving. Tried to open, clean and lube but didn’t do the trick.
  • 4 1
 As a diheard Sram fan, running 1x11 X1 and upgrading to GX Eagle on my previous bike, with Guide RS, Pike, Monarch Plus and a Reverb, while running X01 (with an Al GX crank), Code RSC, Lyrik RC2 and Super Deluxe Ultimate and a Reverb on my current bike (which was built using a configurator, giving me the choice of selecting what I want), I'd take any Shimano drivetrain over the SX, NX and GX stuff currently.

With X01 it's a tossup with XTR, until the 10-52 cassette comes into play. With that cassette, Sram can just GTFO. Who the hell gave the greenlight to do a 'Wallmart' 'Megadrive' cassette that costs 300 USD?!? Who gave the greenlight for that stupid jump?

I'm keeping my Codes, Lyriks, Super Deluxes (well, first I need to find one that isn't knocking) and Reverbs, but I'm SERIOUSLY tempted to get an XT or XTR group to try things out.
  • 3 7
flag thenotoriousmic (Nov 5, 2020 at 7:04) (Below Threshold)
 @Primoz: Are you trying to be funny? You’d take a cheap stamped shimano cassette that comes in bits held together with a zip tie that gouges itself into your freehub body over x01 cassette that’s been machined to perfection out of a sold piece of high quality steel that shifts way better and lasts for years? That’s a prime example of the ridiculous shit people say on pinkbike. My XT cassette is just about done after about a years worth of riding on my second bike my main bike has a three year old xO1 cassette that still shifts better than my XT ever did but it costs about three times as much, hardly a coincidence that it works so much better.
  • 1 1
 @BenSandle: XD is great! Especially with the ethirteen cassettes!
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Everything you wrote is true. I'm still on 11 speed Shimano setup but you don't have an option of a durable and light cassette with Shimano. Yes you have XTR but that is not durable - it's actually the least durable cassette due to titanium cogs.
Since my cassette is almost done, I'm swapping the driver to XD and going with SRAM X01 10-42 (which I got for cheap since nobody wants 11 speed anymore).
And like you mentioned it costs a lot more, but it also lasts a lot more as well so in the long run it might be even cheaper to run a X01 cassette - same applies to chains - it was proven that the XX1 chain lasts the longest and is the cheapest when you factor in the mileage it can handle.
  • 3 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I bought X01 for my current bike because of the cassette. Because I'm a freaking nerd and I wanted that CNC goodness. If the X01 spec came with the GX cassette, they could have just stuck that X01 where the sun don't shine. I've even bought two XX1 black chains purely for the pimp factor (note though that the chains are essentially painted to be black, on the outside only, the inside of the plates, where they are actually in contact, are ordinary chrome plated steel) instead of the X01 ones (the bike came with a GX chain though).

That's why I'd go for Shimano, to test things out. I had a test ride on two e-bikes this summer (still hate them, though the Turbo Levo SL is somewhat bike like instead of motorcycle like), but the fact is that Sram shifted like shit on the e-bike (in turbo mode, where you can't really modulate your power like you can under your own power), but in the same situation Shimano shifted flawlessly. So their shifting under power thingie actually does work.

As for X01 and the performance, GX was good for me for the year that I owned my previous bike with it installed. Many people say GX is fiddly and starts making problems after a while. On the other hand I've often had problems with my X01 in the 42T and 50T gear when shifting to it, with the chain making a bit of a jump right after the shift under decent power. Not always, but often. And I never could get rid of that. So yeah...

And yeah, now that they have that god awful monstrosity of the 52T and though they said the 50T will still be offered, but is getting harder and harder to find, I'd prefer Shimano over Sram in any case. Even a Deore setup to a 10-52 XX1 setup. And it's not 'oooooh, too much range', far from it. It's a 'oooooh, they made a MegaDrive cassette purely to have +1 to Shimano with zero development costs and investments but made a huge jump'. Had they made alterations to the main part of the cassette, just by going 32-37-44-52 instead of 32-36-42-52, would have made ALL the difference. But that means a completely new tooling setup. And that's expensive. And the way they made it just shows how much they care about the customers having a good experience overall vs. oneupping Shimano in the total range.

Yes, I'm REALLY salty about the 52T cassette. Not really sure why apart from the fact it's just SO stupid.

@tonit91: the XX1 chain is not the price performance champion, the X01 is. THe XX1 chain comes in fancy colors that, given what I wrote above (based off my black chain) does nothing for actual performance and is purely a looks thing. And it's 50 % more expensive because of that.
  • 2 0
 And if it wasn't clear above, I completely get it why they made the 52T cassette the way they did it, as it makes all the sense from the business point of view. They just make a new aluminium cog and press it onto the same cassette body. And they can actually keep backwards compatibility with the 50T cassette (same main steel body and averything) so people are not pushed into buying new derailleurs when they have to replace a cassette and can't find a 10-50T cassette.

But still, user experience wise it's SOOOO stupid, as the 52T cog makes a huge jump in gear ratios. And it is something reviewers have noted. And I, as a user, want to have useful things, not cheap to make things. Unless the price is right. Which, honestly, for an X01/XX1 cassette, regardless of the cool factor (as I've mentioned, I didn't mention I'm an engineer and that I get really weak knees at things like that), it's not really priced 'that well'... (it's 300 €!!)
  • 1 0
 @Primoz: cyclingtips.com/2019/12/the-best-bicycle-chain-durability-and-efficiency-tested

It's not just fancy colours, it's the coating that gives the XX1 chain the durability. It's same when it comes to cassettes, the 11 speed X01 cassette is actually lighter than the XX1 by around 10g due to the coating on the XX1.
  • 1 0
 @tonit91: the link you gave (that I'm familiar with) shows the exact same performance comparing X01 and XX1. And it shows the X01 performance/cost ratio being the best with the XX1 coming out at around NX levels as the XX1 chain costs 50 % more than an X01 chain (for same performance).

And I wrote above that the coating is cosmetic, as when you take a few links of the chain out (to install it), you can see there is no coating on the surfaces of the plates that can actually come in contact. Meaning that the coating is applied AFTER the chain is manufactured and the coating is not applied to the insides of the rollers and so on, where it could actually make a difference (if it was a performance oriented coating and not just some paint). If you want I can take pictures of this if you don't believe me. This is true for the black chain, can't say what it's like on the golden and rainbow versions though, I've never had one of those. And it's also very logical as they also manufacture one chain and keep te tolerances of all the parts the same, then just leave X01 chains chromed only, but paint/coat in gold or rainbow the XX1 chains on the outside without affecting performance.
  • 1 0
 @Primoz: I’m with you on that one, I don’t need a 52t at all. I don’t even use all the gears I do have.
  • 1 0
 @Mac1987: If you use the system correctly, the balls shimano uses are far softer than the cups and the cones are replaceable. Only ever seen issues with the cups when people use what they believe is an upgraded ball which is too hard.
  • 1 0
 @bonfire: I've had worn out races on a low-end Alivio hub. Bought the bike second hand. There was a lot of dirt in the (poorly sealed) bearings. They do need maintenance and the previous owner obviously didn't do his. With cartridge bearings they would still be salvageable. Because of the fixes races, this hub wasn't. However, I replaced the whole wheelsets for something more decent, so couldn't care in this instance.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: that's the key, I'm not against the range, it can be very useful, it's all good on that front. I'm against cheap oneupmanship fixes that give have a debatable effect for the user as opposed to having things engineered properly.
  • 1 0
 @Mac1987: They’re crap and there’s absolutely no reason to still be using cup and cone but you can replace the cups if you needed to though buying a new set of wheels is definitely the best way to go.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: as I recall, the inner side of the races was fixed and couldn't be replaced. The balls and outer ring were replaceable. The inside one had heavy pitting, so no cost efficient repair was possible. Did they change the design? Are both sides replaceable nowadays? That would be an improvement, but would make the design more like a cartridge bearing, only more complex and maintenance intensive.
  • 2 0
 @Mac1987: You buy a deore front hub for £15 of chain reaction. Heat the hub body with a heat gun and tap the cup out with a rubber mallet. The cup just falls out. Not ideal but has saved me from having to buy wheels back in the day.
  • 1 0
 @Primoz: This whole time I was talking about 11 speed chains and cassettes, maybe I wasn't clear about that.
But yes for 12 speed it's different because the X01 uses the chrome also, so I guess it should be compared to something like a GX for price/performance.
And AFAIK the chrome is applied before the chain is assembled unlike coatings on KMC chains which is applied after assembly. The coating definitely helps - it's pretty obvious from the test results 11 speed or 12 speed doesn't matter.
  • 1 0
 @tonit91: and I was talking about 12 speed, as 11 speed XX1 doesn't even have rainbow and black chains. And yeah, the assembly parts are chromed, the chains assembled and the XX1 chains appear to be coated after the fact, at least the black ones.
  • 2 0
 @Cambot: I have the new Shimano XT 12-speed drivetrain. And I am also having problems with the clutch on the rear derailleur. From what I understand, the plastic clutch cover is not water tight. Thus allowing water to get in to it and cause corrosion. So every now and then, I need to remove the cover and clean the clutch. I then spray the clutch with a silicone. This protects the clutch from corrosion and also repels the water.

I've called Shimano about this issue. And they actually admitted to me that they know about this, and said that there is an inherent issue with their design. So they have developed a modification. It's called the "new stabilizer kit". They also told me that I can get one free of charge. But I need to go through an authorized Shimano dealer. So my local bike shop/mechanic needs to order it for me.
  • 1 0
 @Garyciminelli: Very helpful! I’ll give this a try, I’ve known about the issue, cleaned and lubed clutches multiple times, they never go back to normal and I ride in slop all the time. I’ll give the stabilizer kit a go. Thanks!
  • 95 0
 XT shifter, SLX cranks, Deore Derailleur, and maybe XT cassette.
I’m happy for this positive news this morning.
  • 9 2
 Performance wise, I would go with XTR chain and Deore cassete. It would erode the chainring before anything else.
  • 21 7
 and if you order today, you might get it in April in time for the new season!
  • 7 1
 In stock in LOTS of places....@f00bar:
  • 4 0
 @Notmeatall: Agreed. This is what the Shimano Rep recommended as well. XTR is lightest, strongest and most durable:

"According to Nick Murdick, if you were going to only have one XTR part on your bike, choosing the chain is the way to go."

m.pinkbike.com/news/shimanos-back-in-the-game-with-new-xt-and-slx-12-speed-groups.html
  • 1 0
 @Notmeatall: yup, xtr chain is cheap and great. No brainer upgrade
  • 3 0
 Built up my winter bike with XT shifter, Deore cassette and derailleur, and a spare set of non-series MT900 cranks. The only difference I notice on this compared to my trail bike (full XT), is the extra noise from the bushing pulleys on the cheaper derailleur. And that's obviously a case of "who cares." I'd happily run this mix on any bike Big Grin
  • 75 10
 This is the best MTB product of the last 5 years
  • 10 9
 Ive had a new XT derailleur that bent the leading edge of the outer plate, by the jockey wheel, right out at 90deg, without obviously catching anything. That mech later self destructed on a tree stump through my own fault, the deore I replaced it with was bent out in the exact same way after half a ride. I've bent it back and its ok ish, but the chain derails from the bottom jockey occasionally now. Basically, if they could beef up that particular bit, I'd agree with you.
  • 9 4
 @pbuser2299:

That exact same thing happened to my buddy’s brand new slx. Just got it brand new, straight out of the bike shop, and it busted midway down the mountain. The thing literally just folded when he was riding light trails...
  • 3 0
 @pbuser2299: if the clutch is too tight and doesnt give, i could see this happening. usually the clutch is tuned from the factory and doesnt need to be touched. maybe the QC guy missed a handful of these and they were way too tight?
  • 1 0
 What was the last? I'm leaning towards the Deore 11-42 10spd cassette.
  • 6 1
 Everyone on the internet nuts themselves over these, but in my experience they are just as finicky as SRAM 12spd. Two buddies got bikes with brand dew Shimano Deore and SLX, and even after carefully setting up and adjusting they click and clang like mad. Especially after a day in the mud.

I'll be sticking to the SRAM 11spd that I picked up for less than $200 and has been rock solid and never needs adjusting. 50+ tooth cogs are completely unnecessary anyway.
  • 4 1
 @adamweld: ssssshhh don’t go saying that on the internet, we don’t want those x01 11 speed cassettes selling out.
  • 1 0
 @cherbein03: no it's not a structural bit, it's literally just the guard part that goes round the front edge of the lower jockey wheel. I guess with the larger jockeys, the amount of material they've removed and how low it hangs, makes it liable to snag stuff and then bend easily.
  • 35 0
 I'm just so happy that many brands like Giant, Trek, Vitus and many more have ditched OEM setups that was always including the utter garbage hidding under the badge of Sram SX / NX for their base bikes. GX and above are nice groups but anything below cannot compete with Shimano Deore,
  • 40 7
 I would like to see a review of the 10 or 11 speed. I don't need 12 and want to keep my traditional hubs. For an old bike the 10/11 speed groups seem like a killer deal.
  • 8 10
 Try the Box Prime Nine.
  • 28 0
 My 10sp Deore review: works all the time, every time, and usually has more range than I need
  • 17 0
 @p-m-z: Out of stock until the Second Coming, where we will all be riding gearboxes anyways.

@Rigidjunkie try advent X. Half the price of Deore, and lighter than XT. Uses normal, old school freehub.
  • 10 1
 The advantages don't stop at old hubs either. Adjustment on 12 speed is just too finicky (like people said about SRAM) and not worth the headache for a 10T cog IMO. Longer derailleur as well. I've never ripped a derailleur off and I've done it twice less than a year on 12 speed. (also the hangers are so burly that they never break, the derailleur does) If SunRace or someone comes out with a microspline 11 speed cassette (doubtful) I will be switching all my 12 speed stuff to it.
  • 7 7
 I went from GX to XT 11 speed, haven't lubed my chain once, not one missed shift.
  • 2 0
 @EnsBen: You should post a full review somewhere. Details are SPARSE.
  • 11 0
 try MicroShift
  • 5 1
 @hamncheez: Half the price of Deore? Advent X is slightly more expensive than both 10spd and 11spd Deore, at least here in Europe. Are the prices different in the states?
M5100 RD, M4100 shifter, M4100 11-46 cassette: €107
M5100 RD, M5100 shifter, M5100 11-51 cassette: €120
Advent X RD, shifter, cassette: €134 (and that's with the cheaper version of the RD, shifter and cassette)

(All prices from bike24 with 27% VAT, which will differ from country to country)

@coletrane-mtb Derailleur cage length is related to capacity, not the number of speeds. A derailleur designed for an 11spd 11-51 will have the same length cage as a derailleur that was designed for a 12spd 11-51.
They're Microspline but Shimano makes 10-45 12spd cassettes. They made a shorter cage 1x derailleur for the 10-45, but sadly it's only available at XTR level.
  • 1 0
 It's been done when they were first released years ago...
  • 6 0
 @HollyBoni: Sorry I forgot to take into account the crankset and chain.

Here, the AdventX is about $165 for derailleur, shifter, & cassette.

As stated in this article, Deore is about $180.

I've been loving my Microshift AdventX. Probably doesn't shift quite as well as Deore, but much lighter where it counts and you don't have to find a still obscure microspline freehub. Range is less, but shift jumps are larger, which is so much better.
  • 5 0
 @hamncheez: Deore now comes in 3 versions, 10spd, 11spd, 12spd. The 10spd and 11spd groupsets use the 8-9-10spd HG freehub body.
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: But thats not what this article is about...
  • 4 0
 @hamncheez: Yeah I know, but Rigidjunkie's first comment was originally asking about 10spd and 11spd Deore.

Anyways i'm not trying to argue or anything, I just thought i'd mention that Deore isn't 12spd and Microspline only in case you didn't know about it.
  • 2 0
 You really should try Box or Advent X. If you can ever get ahold of them. Both are cheaper, lighter, and perform better than the mid ranged SRAM/Shimano stuff.
  • 3 0
 @phops: so you haven't shifted yet...
  • 2 0
 @EnsBen: does it have the same range? I don't need a million options in the middle as I really only use 3 or 4 across the entire spectrum...
  • 1 0
 @alexisfire: Well, only box one is lighter, and that one isn't cheap. Granted, the cassette is completely steel and probably bombproof, but who knows for sure since they haven't ever been in stock
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: I contacted Microshift about European stock levels as I was interested in Advent X. They misinformed me about supply times, told me I could buy direct, then ignored 2 emails asking how to go about purchasing. They eventually replied over 2 months later. If that's their level of interest when you're trying to give them money, I dread to think what sorting any issues would be like. I hope you get better service from them in the US, personally I wouldn't want to give my hard earned to a company that slack.
  • 1 0
 @commental: I bought from JensonUSA; I emailed microshift directly about stock and never got a response.... but it shifts really well!
  • 2 0
 @commental: If you're still interested, bike24 in Germany seems to carry a lot of Microshift stuff. They have every Advent X part in stock right now other than the more expensive shifter, which is kind of a miracle with that whole plague thing going on.
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: good point- I've been complaining all over the place that Box one Prime 9 has never been in stock, but with COVID its hard to complain
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: There is a 5 month wait for the bike I want... Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: And the 10 and 11 spd cassettes have interchangeable ring groups for the specified number of speeds. So, for 10-speed cassettes, SLX, XT, and XTR can have some interchangeability of mix and matching the cassette rings. SLX and XT have the exact same biggest 3 carriers, then the next 4 or 5 can be swapped out. XTR on the 10-spd cassette is the most adaptive but creaks like heck on the rivets.

11-spd cassettes are much the same way - probably less adaptive as the 10-spd cassettes. For SRAM, 10-spd and up - all cassettes are one piece, except for the extra 10T ring!
  • 1 0
 Yup, I was ready to take my trail bike from 11 speed down to 9 or 10 this summer, but couldn’t source the right combination of parts. Guess I’m stuck with 11 speed for another year or so...
  • 2 0
 I am running the Box2 Prime 9 setup and will not be going back to either Shimano or Sram... as good shift wise, way less finicky than the 12 speeds and cheaper. TBH, I got sick of how often I was shifting gears with my old XO1 eagle drivetrain.
  • 1 0
 If I have a old Shimano 3x9 cassette and hub, what exactly do I need to convert to a microspline freehub?
  • 5 0
 For anyone reading this thread and interested in the Advent X stuff, that guy who 'partys on hardtails' over on YT rode it and reviewed it and couldn't say enough good things about it. I left working in bike shops right before 12spd came out--I know it supposedly fixes some chainline issues, improves shifting, etc. over the 11spd stuff.. but the finicky nature of such fine shifts is a pain in the a**. I hated working on the 11spd stuff after it had been out on the trail for a while. I'm sold on wide range 10spd for life!
  • 3 0
 @HollyBoni: I'm not interested in giving Microshift my money. I understand stock issues in the current situation, but there's no excuse for taking over 2 months to reply to an email. I'm very happy that I found out how bad their communication skills are before making any purchases.
  • 2 0
 @skelldify: go with the microshift you wont be disappointed. Been a shimano guy all my life its been great not a hiccup and the lighter cassette has no wear after 4 monthe might even go two seasons for $65.
  • 1 0
 @commental: Yeah that sucks, but keep in mind that if there are issues, you'll be dealing with the shop, not Microshift directly. Not defending Microshift or anything, just saying.
For example I ordered a SRAM groupset from bike24 and there was an issue with the cassette. I never spoke to SRAM directly (and bike24 sent me back a new a cassette that was twice as expensive as the cassette I bought originally Big Grin ).
  • 1 0
 @motard5: you need a micro spline free hub body for your rear hub. From memory, my DT Swiss Micro spline freehub was around £60 so not insignificant.
  • 6 0
 @commental: sorry to hear that you haven't gotten a response from our customer service folks. We've been contracting out some of our CS duties, and it hasn't gone well. We're committed to bringing it all in house ASAP, but it will take time to grow our team. That's not an excuse for ghosting you, I just want to communicate what's going on.
  • 1 0
 @plyawn: definitely less range than the 10-51 but still more than it sounds like either of us need ya now?
  • 1 1
 @halljam: additional details:
-clicky things to shift are crisp
-only takes like 2 screws to tune it real nice
-cheap as heck if you manage to break it
-granny-ish cog is a different color, very fashion
  • 1 0
 @microshift: I was dealing with a guy called Kuma if that helps.
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: Microshift initially told me I could buy direct from them, then the communication stopped. Had the purchase gone ahead I would have been dealing directly with them as I would have purchased directly from them.
  • 28 2
 Good luck getting anything from shimano
  • 23 1
 Or any other bikes parts right now...its bleak out there.
  • 6 0
 eBay. Just ordered a full SLX group with brakes for $640ish taxed and shipped. Plenty more on eBay and there's a pinkbike seller doing the same in BuySell.
  • 2 1
 @rickybobby18: but will it actually be delivered on time?
  • 2 0
 @Mac1987: it shipped on time. USPS determines whether it gets delivered on time (it's marked as in transit).
  • 12 0
 I totally agree. I just put this groupset on my Evil Wreckoning. Works flawlessly and it was cheap. Can’t ask for more.
  • 2 0
 Came stock on my RipMO AF and is pretty close to my old XT 11spd set and definitely better than my old SLX 11spd set. Spot on review from my experience too.
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: same here and I’m just as pleased with it so far. Might upgrade to xt shifter but that’s it.
  • 11 0
 Been waiting to swap to the shimano stuff but here I am 1200kms in on a GX drivetrain and I have yet to replace anything but the chain....
  • 1 0
 Same. I keep wanting to go shimano 10 speed, but can’t seem to get the right combination of parts.
  • 11 3
 600g a cassette. Lol.
If only they'd make a 10s Hg+ cassette with alu carrier and steel cogs. 11-42 is plenty enough for the avarage joes.
  • 4 0
 @lRaphl:
No, not this one. This is a "classic" cassette which carries nothing from the innovations that have been packed into the new 12s family and it is almost identical to the cs-hg500 that im using now. The reason is totaly justifiable tho...
I know that sunrace has its okay parts, but sadly nor the shifting performance, nor the durability is in par with the deore.
If i want to upgrade, i either need to shovel a small fortune on the bike and/or change/mix systems with sram if i wish to keep the weight in par, or reduce it a bit.
  • 4 0
 Agreed, 10spd with HG+ and 11-46/51 for me because we have steep, sustained climbs where I am. Shimano nearly got it with the M5100 11-51 cassette minus the HG+.
  • 5 0
 I have two bikes currently with Shimano. A hard tail with SLX Cassette/Shifter, and Deore Mech/Chain, and then another bike with XT Cassette/Shifter, and SLX mech/chain. I also have a bike with GX Eagle, but an X01 Cassette. I can report that in 6 months I have not had any issues with the Shimano groupsets. No adjustments, just cleaning a chain every other ride or so. I have about 400 miles on each drive train. Also, I have noted that the shifts on both feel crisper than the SRAM drivetrains I have and have had. I also enjoy shifting under load, and the double tap shifting on the XT shifter. I think at the lower price points Shimano has a rear winner on their hands. Not that there is anything wrong with GX Eagle, but I dig the shimano a little more. I will however say I have a set of Shimano SLX M7100 hubs that have been a bit more of a pain. They creaked when they were new, apparently there is a spacer that originally Shimano said you didn't need to grease, but ya did. That has since been remedied and they are silent. Hopefully they hold up!
  • 4 0
 Yeah that HG+ is insane. First time I tried it going full bore up a climb, stand-up smashing...click, click, click nothing but quick, smooth engagement and the gear spacing didn't throw off my cadence. Trying to dump multiple gears doing the same obviously is a little more hectic but single clicks are smoooooth. Def couldn't say the same about any of my previous SRAM drivetrains.
  • 7 1
 Advent X is better, cheaper, lighter, and has better gear spacing. You just lose range. I want to try box Prime 9 but I'm starting to think it doesn't actually exist.
  • 1 1
 you can get the prime 2 series. it's worth checking out.
  • 3 0
 @alexisfire: The prime 2 cassette is so heavy tho
  • 5 0
 Deore all-steel cassette is probably a good idea for non-weight-weenies even over XT and SLX. All steel means you won't be wearing it out when you let your chain grow a little too long right? Worth it IMO.
  • 1 1
 Cs-hg500 would be a better choice, as its 42t is aluminium, and weights like 460g.
  • 4 0
 Thank You SHIMANO!

For those like me, that have limited budget amd other priorities other then MTB (morgages, kids education, and all those boring things....), this IS the group to enjoy on my MTB trips (that will be more, due to the money saved)
  • 5 1
 @mikekazimer By the way: How's your Norco Optic holding up? Might we get some long term ownership impressions?

I'd be especially curious what you think about durability under what I presume is pretty hard riding. And what do you think about the geometry after a year of ownership? Does your favourable opinion of the long reach still hold true? Ever encountered a situation where you'd ideally have wanted different lenghts, angles, more antisquat, etc? What would you change about the bike?
  • 5 0
 @mikekazimer
The SLX crank is $10 more for just the arms: you need to buy the chain ring separate. It is still worth the substantial weight savings, but it is a bit more than that.
  • 2 0
 Hmm, I'll look into that - prices may have changed from what I have.
  • 5 1
 Always hated SRAM NX shifting. Feels like supermarket bike performances. Very happy to hear Shimano nailed it on the afordable shifting componentry. I was running Shimano brakes for years paired with SRAM GX drivetrain, Now bye bye SRAM.
  • 5 2
 Stoked to see Shimano getting the credit they deserve...no more well marketed but poor performing sram BS. If more companies could execute this price to performance ratio the sport would be a much more inclusive space. Stoked on this stuff!
  • 4 0
 I broke a SLX and while I was waiting for a replacement (they were sending me an XTR since all SLX and XT were out of stock) I bought the Deore. I could not tell a difference when I went from Deore to XTR.
  • 3 0
 Feel like we've been waiting years for some proper trickle down. Aside from the shifter, you could pretty much slap an XT sticker on it and no one would have been upset when comparing it to the older 11spd stuff. Brakes are good too! I haven't wanted plain ol' deore in about 25 years, but this new stuff is very impressive.
  • 3 0
 Did anyone have the same problem as me? Quite often the derailleur gets stuck on the gears and doesn't shift down. It doesn't shift down eventhough there is no tension on the cable. It seems like there is some initial friction. I have to do a litte bunnyhop to let the derailleur fall down to the smaller cogs after. Looks stupid and is quite annoying. Smile

I already tried to regrease the clutch. But the problem does still occur.
Any ideas?
  • 3 0
 Probably too much clutch tension or B screw need to be adjusted....
  • 3 0
 @Andrazzz: The clutch only works one way, when the derailleur cage rotates forward. When you shift to a smaller cog, the clutch shouldn't affect shifting, unless the one way needle bearings are seized.
  • 2 0
 @HollyBoni: it is true what you said. But from my experience I can tell you that it won't downshift from 46T if clutch is too tight (for 11 speed SLX)...
  • 2 0
 What grease did you use?
  • 4 0
 It's pretty easy to diagnose if it's the clutch or not. If it's the clutch the issue should go away when you turn it off.
To me it sounds more like friction in the cable and/or at the pivots, but then you'd mostly have issues in the smaller cogs where the spring tension is lower.
Whenever i'm dealing with weird shifting issues I always start with the hanger alignment.
  • 2 0
 Lube your derailleur pivots.
  • 2 0
 I have the exact same problem on my XT 11-speed derailleur. It sometimes refuses to shift down from the biggest cog even though there is no tension on the cable. I have lubed all the pivots and nothing seems to be binding up. Adjusting the B-tension helped but didn't solve it.
  • 2 0
 @Skooks: Take off the clutch, clean and regrease with Shimano Shadow plus or Nexus internal hub grease (both are white) and it will be perfect
  • 2 0
 @havroski: I don't see how that could cause the problem but I will give it a try. Thanks!
  • 2 0
 @Skooks: m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztf38cO2Ej4 here’s a quick little video. No need to even take the rd off. Just use the shimano stuff not the 3rd party stuff
  • 1 0
 Thank you guys! Now I got a few new ideas on what to try out.
  • 1 0
 @havroski: I used the white Shimano internal hub grease. It is explicitly recommended for shadow+ derailleurs.
  • 1 0
 I've got this problem too. New SLX mech and shifter, new XT cassette. Shifts fine apart from dropping off the largest sprocket, it really doesn't like doing that with the clutch on. Maybe I'll try the magic Shimano grease (which wasn't present on a new mech when I stripped it down). Dread to think how fussy 12 speed would be, I've dug out an 8 year old zee mech and saint shifter, bought a dirt cheap 11-36 10 speed block and getting fit! That old zee mech is genuinely much better than fresh out of the factory stuff.
  • 1 0
 @gavl79: I have a ZEE RD as well and the clutch is the same as the 12spd stuff. It requires attention now and then, and if you don't use the Shimano grease it can be a bit notchy as well.
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: I'm sure the basic design of the clutch is the same across the whole Shimano range, and probably has been since they started fitting them. Still, my old one still works fine with never having anything done to it, never took it apart and greased it! Now stuff leaves the factory unusable until it gets taken apart and greased. My theory (and I'm no engineer), is that the whole system is being pushed too far. 11 and now 12 speed is getting to be too much without a big compromise somewhere. Mechs are too long, chains too thin, setup too fussy. Throw in one small hiccup and it stops working! 10 speed was enough, 11-40 maybe with a 30 chainring.
  • 1 0
 @gavl79: My experience is not the same, my ZEE RD needs attention as well sometimes, otherwise the clutch becomes a bit notchy.
I have 10, 11, 12spd drivetrains. Somehow they all work great. I've heard the too fussy, too much precision needed, chains too thin and too weak, cog spacing too tight etc. arguments a few times already. People said the exact same things at the 8-9spd switch, 9-10 switch, 10-11 switch, and now 11-12 switch. When indexed shifters first came out, people said they're too complicated and unreliable. Smile (Mechs were just as long in the triple days, since cage length is related to capacity)

Shimano had some trouble around the time they released 12spd. Maybe the QC suffered a bit.
  • 5 0
 If you have the old HG hub and are happy with the 11-51t range, the 11-speed Deore M5100 is also an excellent upgrade. I would just use the M5100 (instead of M6100).
  • 4 2
 This is an excellent development. Having again ridden SRAM drivetrains this summer I'm baffled by the funny engineering choices they made....having to disassemble the shifter to change the cable...needing to thread the cable through three!! tiny holes in the derailleur....the pretty tedious bleed procedure on brakes... maybe shimano has better patents, but those are things that get me big time...
  • 4 0
 To be honest when the bar is set by SRAM Nx you don't have to do much to raise it......not self destructing after 3 rides should do it.
  • 3 0
 Great review. If someone would figure out a way to get us people with hg hubs a lighter cassette, that would make me happy. 11-50t is fine, just give me something like the new e-thirteen helix cassette that works with hg.
  • 1 0
 look for TRW 12s. weigh around 360g
  • 2 0
 Garbaruk. those are pretty light IMO
  • 1 0
 @RecklessJack: I was considering one of those, but the youtuber that had initially put up a positive review and got me interested, released another shortly after saying that they weren't able to get consistent shifting and took away their recommendation. Probably more likely to go back to 11 speed shimano than an less mainstream brand. I had no issues with it on my last bike.
  • 4 2
 I have Deore and it’s not bad.... I was surprised after coming off of XX1 eagle stuff.

I also have GX eagle and am really impressed....

With this being said, C’mon! Why no cage lock on the Deore? IMHO this should be a minimum requirement.. WTF! It’s so minor but for someone who travels constantly with my bike I really miss the SRAM cage lock.
  • 4 0
 Spend £2000 on a frame, £700 on wheels, £140 on tyres, £350 on brakes, £500 on finishing kit then slap a bargain basement drivetrain on it hahaha just doesn't compute Smile
  • 2 0
 When I buy new parts I have a short list of boxes that need to be check....

Durable
Dependable
Not expensive (I'm a blue collar working stiff. Every dime counts in my world)
Black
Easy to maintain
I don't care about weight

Shimano has always checked these boxes for me. The new Deore looks amazing.
  • 7 2
 Why would you get anything else?
  • 5 1
 If you want lower weight - especially the cassette. IMO that's the only thing SRAM does better - lightweight cassettes that last, but they aren't cheap.
  • 1 0
 @tonit91: Or the Garbaruk cassettes. Weight even less than th XX1 stuff.
  • 1 0
 @tonit91: something SRAM is also good at is clunking. But hey, they do complete the shift everytime!

- Former X1, X01 and GX owner
  • 2 0
 Own this groupset for several month, nice, however fully agree with shifter upgrade;

Also shimano released deore wheels and brakes - which are falls in the same category of good performance for the price
  • 4 0
 Hard to say no to Deore 4 pot brakes, very consistent and reliable.
  • 4 0
 I have 12sp Deore on one of my bikes and I'm constantly amazed by how good the shifting is. I highly recommend this group!
  • 5 1
 I bought the deore cassette on purpose. I figure with those all steel cogs, it will last the life of my bike.
  • 4 0
 Superb and very informative article. Loved the price to weight comparisons and personal recommendations.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer - When you speak of greasing the Microspline driver body do you mean the outside portion that comes into contact with the cassette?
  • 5 0
 Yes, exactly.
  • 2 0
 i run Shimano 12sp on 2 bikes. never greased this and no issues!
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer @zarban creaks can also come from the rivet points between the cassette clusters. I've had 2 12-spd XTR cassettes here in the dry and dusty Okanagan, both developed pretty annoying creaks between the low range and middle range cluster rivets. A couple drops of PTFE lube on the rivets solved the issue, though it would come back after 30 or 40 hrs of dry riding. Not a performance issue, but something to keep in mind.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: I've got a bit over 100 miles on a new XTR set up and the cassette started making a ton of noise yesterday, then I read this article today. Lubed things up and will try it back out tomorrow. If Sram has anything over shimano it's the one piece cassette and the XD Driver. For reference, I'm coming off of XX1 eagle and had zero issues there over many miles, just switched to see how the new XTR stacks up, and I've always been partial to the Shimano Brakes.
  • 2 0
 My XTR 12sp cassette with DT rear hub developed an annoying creak that was fixed temporarily by greasing but always came back. The permanent fix was to get the wafer thin transparent plastic washer (shimano part) that sits between the hub face and cassette. After this no more creak.
  • 1 0
 @RunToTheHills: Thank You!
  • 1 0
 @RunToTheHills: Do you happen to know the part number for that thin plastic washer? I have these cassettes on two bikes and only one of those washers.
  • 7 3
 Pinkbike loves to hate Sram and I love when people make comments that a groupset with a 600g cassette is a "GX killer".
  • 3 0
 It's classic pick a side and be a dick about it. The cassette is heavy but i think the point is that Deore is priced at SX/NX level so the fact it can even be thought of as challenging GX (which is meant to be more SLX/XT level) is what should worry SRAM.
  • 1 0
 I like the idea of a long range derailleur with a clutch for under 100$ . I'm happy with Sun Race cassettes in ten speeds with a 46 for the largest cog. I find I shift too much with ten cogs. Can't imagine trying to push through twelve gears. Glad we have affordable yet reliable options.
  • 3 2
 Some really cheap Shimano 4 piston brakes came on my 2020 Scott Gambler. And I am amazed at their performance. Other than the lever feel, I can tell zero difference between them and my Saint brakes. And they are more powerful than the code RSCs on my trail bike. Shimano has the budget performance formula locked down!
  • 4 0
 I just bought a urban bike with the M200 brakes. I can't tell about heat resistance, but they are damn powerful for less than half the price of any other mtb brake worth buying.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer Do you know if the Deore chain, like the XTR, XT, SLX chains I'm told, require a Shimano proprietary narrow wide chainring? I have a set of Hope cranks with their own n/w chain ring and am seriously considering moving to an SLX chain/cassette for the HG+ shifting, but I don't really want to bin my current cranks and buy a new set of Shimano ones just to have to use their own chain...

What I've been hearing/reading is that the Shimano 12sp quick-link is a bit too narrow for most current n/w chainrings, and the hack is to use a Sram link instead - but this seems a bit clumsy and obviously won't be approved by Shimano. Have you heard about this? Just don't seem to see it being mentioned in the reviews of the new Shimano group sets.

See the Wolftooth website for a neat run down of the issue: "12spd Shimano Hyperglide+ Quick-Links have an inside width narrower than the rest of the chain so there will be interference if you use any chainring not specifically designed for HG+ chains. The extended inner link plates of the HG+ chain will also quickly wear into the wide teeth of a non-HG+ chainring so the hack of using a KMC quick-link on Shimano chain is not a recommended solution. The HG+ chain requires a chainring specifically designed to be compatible with its unique shape."

www.wolftoothcomponents.com/pages/chain-compatibility-by-chainring-tooth-profile
  • 1 0
 Hey: I've found that I tried to run shimano 12 speed on a standard absolute black ring (one compatible with 12 speed sram), chain was really grindy. Upgraded to a Shimano 12 speed specific absolute black and the noise went. There's an obvious difference in the profile of the tooth. I can clearly see the marks on the old ring where the hyperglide chain has been rubbing. I've got friends running used sram/raceface rings with shimano 12 speed with no issues. So my observations would say a new ring you might not get away with it, but a worn ring maybe?
  • 2 0
 m.pinkbike.com/photo/19673942

Top is shimano 12 speed specific, bottom not. Notice profile difference, both 12s hyperglide chains.
  • 3 0
 The Shimano clutches need to be serviced and it’s a five minute job.
I use red wheel bearing grease and mine works like new after the service.
  • 1 0
 running new shimano 12sp on 2 bikes and have thousands of trouble free miles. only issue is chainstay clearance on my XTR cranks. certainly be sure you get the correct q factor / crank width to clear some of the wider chainstays out there. i'd also recommend not spending extra on xtr stuff unless you are doing XC. agreed with mike here the XT shifter is >>>>> superior to SLX / Deore but other than the trigger shifter there is no reason to do anything >>> SLX unless you are trying to save ###
  • 3 0
 Shimano clutches can go bad/rusty. they are serviceable but don't always come back. Sram's clutches are more durable but not serviceable.
  • 1 0
 It does have multishift down the gears as well, if it is anything like the older ones, they simply added a plastic tab inside the shell of the shifter which stopped the lever from going far enough to release another gear. You can simply cut this out, with a dull knife, which i did on my xt m770 9-speed shifter, which "didn't" have it either, there is a video on youtube with a tutorial i think.
  • 2 0
 Finally good news to replace my disgusting NX rear gears and that overshiffting that burned my head almost every ride, day yes day no to readjust the gears... THANK YOU SHIMANO !!
  • 5 0
 The more Sram parts I take off my bike, the more I like my bike.
  • 1 0
 I switched from SRAM to XT right when it came out and have been on it all season. It worked well for 2 months but now it’s a mess. Tuned back up and then gross again after a ride, shop fixes it and then yuck. The trigger on the shifter jams and I have to jiggle it to release it. I haven’t taken it apart but I feel like it’s faulty. Gets hung up in the 51 after a couple rides then WHAM shifts half way down the cassette. It’s super odd. I’m sure it’ll get fixed with replacement of a few bits but still frustrated with the inconsistency. When it works it’s great though.

Long story mtb drivetrain are finicky regardless of who makes them. Glad this is mega cheap so it’ll be less awful to replace when it inevitably stops working.
  • 1 0
 Why not compare this to SX? Surely it's closer than NX.
Although is SX OEM only?
Comparing feature/feature price/price surely it's XX1/XTR race, X01/XTR Trail, GX/XT, NX/SLX & SX/Deore.
And before anyone says XT is = X01.. No not even close.
  • 1 0
 Ive got an XTR XT combo on my bikes, and the XTR shifters are other worldly for feel and responsiveness, but there really is no need for it.
I'm of the opinion that: If you've bought above Deore its because you're a "bike person" and you're treating yourself to something a bit nice.
Deore has always been incredible VFM.
  • 1 0
 I found BOX Components product in that category is far more superior at a better price range. I think they are trying to hit the market where BOX successfully did. I know that those who have tried that that matchup will also agree. Good Job BOX!!!
  • 1 0
 went from a NX 11S to a hybrid Shimano 12s without changing my hub. The NX is like a horse carriage/horseshit compared to a Shimano.

i wanted to get the M6100 12s as a replacement for my NX, but I got a TRW 12s cassette, weighs 360g priced around $70, an XT M8100 derailleur+shifter, XTR chain and SLX 165mm cranks. Sorry guys I live in Malaysia and Shimano factory is over here so everything is available. Early days but it really feels night n day difference for people riding on budget NX drivetrains
  • 2 0
 But if you’ve ridden any of the shimano 12spd stuff you know that the performance is short lived, before the clutch has to be rebuilt and the shifter requires a bionic thumb to shift.
  • 1 0
 I just upgraded from a 2014 XT 3x drivetrain to an Eagle NX non boost. Had a deal and was basically the only thing available. Boy oh boy do I miss the shifting of my XT. I can't reliably shift under power on the NX without having these random armageddon misshifts. It became the closest thing to a gear hub where you have to release the torque to shift.
Nothing loose on my bike, installed it properly as per instructions (not my first installation btw), adjusted B-nut with guide plate, no stiff links in the chain. etc. I examined my XT derailleur after 7 years of use. Nothing loose whatsoever. Needless to say that post pandemic, I'm returning to Shimano. Sad thing though cause the goupo is nice and price was very good. Can't believe we see it spec on so many 4 to 5 k $ bikes.
  • 1 0
 Update: shifting under power is getting much better after few rides, as if it was a bedding in issue, up to the point where I forget about it now and no longer fear the drivetrain reaction when pressing the shifter for an upshift. If shifting can keep improving with usage, then the conclusion will change to a thumbs up for the NX. Wish it would have been like that out of the box but at least it is getting in the right direction.
  • 2 0
 @spaceofades to each their own, that is one of the beauties of the bike industry. The ability to pick and choose based on preference. Big Grin
  • 5 1
 This over any level SRAM any day!!
  • 1 0
 Yeah shimano rocks...till You want to order and realise everything on backorder. I just got my Trek Slash 9.8 XT postponed from 10.Dec.20 to 10.March 21. If I would want Sram drivetrain, I would allready ride it...
  • 1 0
 The review mentioned a line on the inside of the derailleur cage for setting the B-screw. Does anyone have a link for that? I have always just eye-balled it.
  • 4 0
 @timgross, it looks similar to this, just without the lettering: www.pinkbike.com/photo/17365190
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: Cheers did not know about this feature + 1 point to Shimano
  • 1 0
 Look closely, on my SLX shifter it is just a line pressed in material of the cage. Really hard to find. But perfect feature
  • 1 0
 Ok, so how do I proceed now. I have SRAM SX, which SuXs. Of course, I can not fit 12 speed cassettes from Shimano. Do I have to buy a new wheel?
  • 2 1
 GX
  • 2 0
 @T4THH: You will need an XD driver body to move up to a GX cassette
  • 2 0
 See if you can get a microspline driver for your wheel.
  • 1 0
 incase you want to run the Shimano 12speed? it will run on your Sram SX cassette as well. Just search on youtube. I had a nx 11 speed and i got a trw12 speed cassette and a shimano 12s XT derailleur+shifter without changing my hub. Shimano 12Speed is compatible with Sram SX and NX 12 speed cassettes.
  • 1 0
 @kawkaw: Why bother? The benefit to Shimano 12sd is Hyperglide+ which is chain and cassette.
  • 1 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: yes thats true. No point in running the SX cassette even though its compatible. But I think he can run the 12speed shimano cassettes without requiring a microspline driver. Since i didn't need to change my freehub to microspline. early days but so far its running well with the shimano 12s.
  • 2 0
 Using xt cassette and slx cranks can save over half a pound! Slx cassette would save some too.
  • 4 1
 Coke vs Pepsi...they'll both give you heartburn after awhile.
  • 4 1
 True mountain bikers just run budget sram 3x10's from 2013 tbh smh
  • 2 1
 I have the 11sp version on my Honzo AL. It's the best drivetrain I've ever had the pleasure of riding, the hyperglide+ is real!
  • 1 1
 You only get hyperglide+ with the 12spd cassettes... Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: it still shifts flawlessly under load
  • 2 0
 Great article, Kaz. The comparison and mention of worthy upgrades is all really good reporting.
  • 1 0
 Does anyone know what good, complete bikes these come on? I'm looking for a bike for my girlfriend, but can't find any Deore 6100 bikes.
  • 3 0
 You can get most Ibis bikes with full Deore
  • 1 0
 @arrowheadrush: Yep, Ripmo AF comes with full Deore now, looks like they've dropped the NX option
  • 1 0
 Haven’t bother to read the comments, but this would be perfect drive train for emtbs where weight doesn’t matter and they wear out at3x the speed....
  • 1 0
 Honestly, is there much reason for replacing an older 10 spd 11-42 Deore drivetrain? It's lighter, cheaper, and shifts like a dream still.
  • 1 0
 Not IMO, though it might be worth upgrading to an 11-46 cassette (Shimano or Sunrace), or an 11-48 (Advent X), if you live in a hilly area.
  • 1 0
 Not unless you want more range, but then you also have Deore M5100 which doesn't require a freehub body change. M6100 is a very sweet option if you're building a new bike or buying a new bike.
  • 1 0
 @jnroyal: I'm with you on wanting more range, but just went with a 28t front sprocket.
  • 1 0
 @woofer2609: A smaller chainring doesn't give you more range. It gives you a lower lowest gear, but at the expense of also having a lower high gear. Sacrificing that high gear may not matter to you, but you are definitely not getting "more range" with a smaller chainring.
  • 2 0
 @MtbSince84: Good point, my terminology was wrong. I rarely use the 3 smallest rings on any cassette anyway. Pretty much steep up, steep down here on the North Shore.
  • 2 0
 @woofer2609: Makes sense. For me, where I live, I find I need the full range that a 12-speed 10-50 cassette gives - lots of steep climbs and spun-out cranking descents. But yeah, when I visit BC, not so much need for the high gear.
  • 1 0
 @motard5: you need a micro spline free hub body for your rear hub. From memory, my DT Swiss Micro spline freehub was around £60 so not insignificant.
  • 4 2
 Shimano. And it's not even close.
  • 1 0
 Im curious if sram will release a "new NX" or just "bring down GX price" now.
  • 2 0
 In Poland you can buy SLX cheaper than SX Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Does it compatible with sram 12sp shifter? Realy like that setup in 11sp: sram cassette and shifter + shimano derailleur
  • 1 0
 deore and nx up , they are all strong enough its just pay more money for les wieght
  • 3 0
 *Laughs in singlespeed
  • 2 0
 We need a head to head with Deore vs Advent X.
  • 8 8
 Not included: the $100+ microspline driver for your hub and the 8-20 week wait time for all the parts
  • 3 0
 Missed the point if it comes on a bike, then it'll have the driver and unlike Sram's bottom of the line, you don't need a new driver to upgrade the cassette.
  • 1 0
 is this actually available?
  • 1 0
 Still need more Advent X builds coming direct.
  • 1 0
 Take me back mate, To a 3x8!
  • 1 0
 Yuk, im sticking to gx 11
  • 1 0
 Would this fit on a Shimano Deore M525 hub?
  • 25 25
 Shoot me for having an opinion, but I prefer the shifting from GX over XTR
  • 37 0
 Burn the witch!
  • 5 0
 It's the snappy down shift isnt it?
  • 7 6
 I guess you also prefer maple syrup instead of Nutella on your pancakes?
  • 6 11
flag jambarbeast (Nov 4, 2020 at 7:32) (Below Threshold)
 I’ll do you one better. I prefer the NX on my current bike by miles more than the 11 speed XT I had on my previous bike. Shifting was slow and vague and would constantly shift super hard.

I’m pretty sure I won the lottery with mine since the only issue is there’s some play in the hangar but SRAM warrantied it immediately.
  • 3 10
flag JSTootell (Nov 4, 2020 at 7:38) (Below Threshold)
 I have XTR on my XC race bike, and I still prefer GX. Though I have slowly been upgrading all those GX parts to XO1 (still GX shifter) on my enduro bike, which gets the most use.

Not that XTR is bad. But the "Hyperglide" whatever shifting is BS, it BARELY shifts smoother into the lower gears, and it definitely is not as crisp when I am slamming gears in a sprint.
  • 1 0
 @JSTootell: lube your derailleur pivots. Mine was shifting into the lower cogs poorly and once I lubed it it's back to incredible.
  • 6 0
 I have one bike with GX and an X01 shifter, and one with XT. The XT shifts feel lighter, but SRAM feels like it sets into the gears more positively. The better price and the closer gear steps at the top make XT the winner. The best shifting bike I have is my gravel bike with SRAM Force. Feels amazing.
  • 2 0
 Some people prefer their steaks medium-well.
  • 2 1
 @pakleni: Actual Vermont or Quebec Grade B? f*ck yea, over that weirdo Euro peanutbutter thing stuff.
  • 1 0
 @jambarbeast: Ha, me too! It came on a 2018 Diamondback that I use as my all around bike, and after three hard seasons I've only had to change the chain. Works perfectly.
  • 4 4
 I wish I didn't, but I have to agree. I really wanted the Shimano 12s to be better than it is. Also I'm really coming to hate the multi piece cassettes with spacers. The 10-52T GX Eagle drives that I've put on customer bikes are way nicer and shift better than the XT 12s.
  • 7 1
 No, this is Pinkbike and Deore 12 speed is the best drivetrain in the whole wide world. I think it will put Sram out of business. It’s so good I think Shimano will quit making all other drivetrains. Look for it at WC races next year. Shit I heard it’s so good they are even going to use it on the TDF bikes too. Such a game changer.
  • 2 1
 @rickybobby18: Nothing wrong with my XTR setup. That bike just got me a (local) Pro Class championship this past weekend (the actual fast guys weren't consistent). I take good damn care of my bikes.
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: yes there is every thing wrong with your XTR setup. It’s not Deore 12 speed for one. No that’s pretty much it. All others s are inferior.
  • 3 0
 @sunringlerider: Just you wait for the Tourney 12 Speed with 2000g full lead cassette.
  • 3 0
 @OneTrustMan: #gamechanger
  • 2 0
 @sunringlerider: I know you're not being serious but it is really a sweet drivetrain. The cassette is cheaper than NX and you get a 10T cog (and yes both NX and Deore cassettes are heavy), the RD is considerably cheaper than NX as well.
No it's not a #gamechanger but personally i'm pretty darn happy that a drivetrain like this is available at this price point (and the 11 and 10spd versions are awesome low buck options as well). This is just me but personally I didn't want to run Deore 1 or 2 generations ago but I happily do now.
  • 2 0
 @pakleni: he's probably an adult. So yes.
  • 3 0
 @pakleni: Shots fired! And I thought Switzerland always stayed neutral. Not when it comes to sweet nut paste, apparently.
  • 7 0
 @MtbSince84: Swiss neutrality is just a story for masses. Something like US democracy Wink
  • 1 0
 @HollyBoni: glad you picked up on that.
Only true downfall I see is the microspline driver. At that low price point the typical aftermarket user isn’t going to want to buy a new wheel set if they cannot get the corrrect driver. So a 600g cassettes that has to have the micro spline?
IMO anyone that would be springing for the new group set and also a new wheel set would be at the xt level. Or at least an xt cassette.
  • 2 0
 @sunringlerider: I imagine Shimano has some sort of plan to accommodate the HG users like Sram does with their sub GX cassettes, just haven't heard about it yet.
  • 3 1
 @sunringlerider: I wonder how many people actually buy complete groupsets for their existing bikes (I did when I was building a bike).

You can look at the cheap microspline cassette both as a positive and a negative. It can be a negative if you're upgrading an existing drivetrain. But it can be a positive if you're buying a new bike. If you buy a bike with NX or SX, you get an HG driver. If you want to upgrade the cassette for less weight and/or more range, you have to change the driver.
However if you buy a new bike with Deore, you get a microspline driver which is (probably) more future proof, and easier to upgrade. (Personally I don't care that much about weight, and i'm also happy that I can buy a cheap cassette with the same range as the more expensive ones. But that's just me.)
  • 5 5
 LOL NX and GX are such trash compared to Deore
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