Descending Let's get straight to it: The linkage suspension on the front of the SCW feels impossibly smooth throughout its travel, almost enough to make me think conventional forks are filled with a 50/50 mixture of sand and maple syrup for lube. And it's not just at the top of the stroke where we think it matters, but throughout the entire range of travel. That's leverage at work, with a telescoping fork being one-to-one and this, much like your bike's rear-suspension, definitely not; the friction of the shock's seals seems close to non-existent.
The sealed bearings help, of course, and the result is, as much as it irks me to say that Structure wasn't stretching the truth with their claim, a lot like the damn thing has an extra 20 or 30mm of travel. It's implausibly smooth and frictionless, delivering the sort of ground-tracking action that I doubt any telescoping fork could ever match, regardless of pricey clout-coatings and fancy seals.
You know when you try something for the first time and you end up kinda liking it even though it weirds you out, but you're also more uncertain than before? That's how I feel about deep-fried brussels sprouts, gravel riding, and the Structure during the first week I had it. Here's how that played out...
The first few rides: "Hhhmm, either I'm too fat or the fork's shock - ugh, did I just say that? - needs more air in it. If I'm honest, it's probably both, and it's time for me to be honest with myself... I really hope no one sees me riding this thing." Much like when I first rode the Trust Message, I had to remind myself that this isn't a conventional fork and won't feel like one, either. We're not used to front suspension like this, and my first thought was that it needed more air. It didn't. When the front wheel hits something and moves up and out of the way, the way the fork lets that happen effortlessly makes it feel like it's way under-sprung. The fork doesn't use more travel than it needs to, though, and there's enough bottom-out resistance in stock form to keep me happy.
I'm still not sold on those deep-fried 'sprouts, and I certainly wasn't sold on the Structure right out of the gate. It was doing some neat things, no doubt, but it also felt unfamiliar.
The next few rides: "You know what really gets my goose? The people coming way out here to smooth out the singletrack. It's supposed to be bumpy and rough, so stick to Zwift if you don't want to deal with that. Keep the mountain in mountain biking, bruh! Then again, I am going faster than usual... " Wowza, whatever it's doing, it's doing it well. Smaller impacts and the chattery stuff that you might feel but don't think much about are dealt with quietly; it doesn't seem like the front tire left the ground, almost like it went
through the root rather than up and over it.
Was it a ghost root? Probably not, but the way it absorbs those small, high-speed impacts is otherworldy. Cool trick, but there's more to a suspension fork than just being slick and forgiving.
Does it matter what it looks like if it works well? The fork's ability to smooth out the ground while also providing calm, consistent handling simply can't be matched by bushings and stanchion tubes.
Riding a fast, rough section of trail back-to-back on a dialed-in conventional fork and on the SCW 1 highlights the differences between the two. In comparison, the normal fork acts as you've nearly closed the high-speed compression, while the Structure's linkage front-end does a far better job of dulling impacts. It does it so well, in fact, that the entire bike seems far less concerned about what's going on, although I suspect that's where some of Structure's geometry voodoo is coming into play. Anti-dive isn't no-dive, though, and the fork will dip into its travel in the same situations that a telescoping fork would, just far less.
The SCW 1 isn't a long bike by today's standards, and there's nothing about the geometry, and especially that 66-degree head angle and the chainstays, that screams stability and "Let go of the brakes" to me, but that's exactly what ends up happening. It stays remarkably composed during those I'm-just-hanging-on moments, a lot like it's a few feet longer than it actually is. When the fork goes into its travel, the head angle gets many degrees slacker, the trail increases, and the front-center length grows substantially, but it never comes across like there's that much going on while it's happening.
Instead, it's like both your handlebar and the bike's handling are simply calmer than you might expect.
The SCW 1 is solid and overbuilt, especially at the front of the bike, with it feeling as torsionally stiff as a dual-crown downhill fork.
Many rides later: "The trail hasn't been smoothed out and I don't know what I believe anymore. If this fork is real, maybe Lazar is telling the truth..." I hope he is, and the fork's performance is very real.
All that calmness that I talked about above applies in the berms and switchbacks, too, and especially when they're choppy, worn-out corners that the over-maintainers haven't "fixed" yet; the rougher the ground and higher the speed, the more the fork and geometry changes felt like an advantage. And it'll only get better if Structure lengthens the SCW 1's rear-end. Then again, the fact that it's not an overly long or slack bike, and has very efficient rear-suspension, means that it's pretty quick when the corner is so tight you're more worried about tipping over than losing traction. I love a bit of slow-speed, mega-awkward jank, the kind where you're thinking so much that 30-minutes goes by in only 5-minutes. The big black linkage bike feels the exact same way, despite the small-diameter wheels not helping matters.
On the handling front, it's almost like Structure has been able to double-dip by creating a bike that doesn't feel too long and unwieldy at slow speeds by using conservative head angle, reach, and wheelbase numbers. Then, when it's time to drop your heels and hang on, the head angle relaxes and the wheelbase doesn't shrink, which is the opposite of a conventional mountain bike that gets steeper and shorter in length. Even so, I'd like to see them add 10mm-ish to the reach across the board, which would take my G2/medium from 460mm to 470mm, as well as 10mm to the chainstay length - the front-end feels so planted and easy to live with, but it was a party behind me sometimes, regardless of if that's what I wanted. More length and more active rear-suspension should help. Speaking of that...
The reduced unsprung weight would help to improve the rear end performance like you said would benefit this bike.
In reality this is not the case and gearboxes are superior to the derailleur system in almost every way.
So I'm still left wondering what the justification for calling them silly is.
Sounds like you're making these assumptions without having ridden a gearbox.
The chain doesn't spin whilst coasting on a Pinion.
Actually you can pedal and shift a Pinion, you just have to learn the technique. (same as you had to learn the technique for shifting a derailleur)
Dunno what you're on about. Technical climbing is even easier on a gbox! If anything it's fireroad style climbing that's more difficult because the drivetrain can't shift under constant heavy load. Even this is easily overcome by using the right technique though, where you give the pedals a quick burst which reduces the load on the gearing and then you can use this window to shift anywhere you want in the gear range with the grip shifter.
If you've ridden several gboxes then it sounds like you haven't put any significant time in on any them. You can't just jump on a completely new system and expect to ride it like a derailleur straight away. Gearboxes are different and they're different because they're better.
I've been using a gearbox for over a year now and have real world experience which counters all of your arguments.
“I would rather sacrifice a marginal performance gain to have a bike that I also love to look at”, ha!
And listen you chuckleheads, that's not to say:
1. That everyone finds this to be an unattractive offering. It is quite possible people find this design attractive, or at least interesting enough. Those people might be giant Praying Mantises from Planet X who appreciate a bike that looks so much like they do, but I suppose it's possible people find the design attractive.
2. That this company isn't on to something revolutionary -- it's just ugly.
Say what you want, but when the rubber hits the road, none of y'all are buying this. I'm sure you'll come up with a reason to justify your decision after the fact, but we all know the REAL reason, don't we?
In my case I've had to accept that I'm the one with the messed up mental wiring. I mean aesthetics really seem to matter to just about everybody. I just don't have a sense of how inanimate objects are supposed to look. I don't find certain buildings uglier or prettier than others, I don't have design cues I like or dislike in cars, and I find the idea of colors clashing or going well together completely nonsensical.
As for your thing about all the design not registering and all that -- it is possible you are the exception that proves the rule.
1. That everyone finds this to be an unattractive offering. It is quite possible people find this design attractive, or at least interesting enough. Those people might be giant Praying Mantises from Planet X who appreciate a bike that looks so much like they do, but I suppose it's possible people find the design attractive
Or, they may just be people who know more on design than you! (think on that)
You’re quite right here. Ridding something that is “recognizable cool” seems to matter most! At the early 80’s – 90’s having a suspension fork (usually with elastomers!!!), was creating mixed feelings. Even so called specialists, writing mostly at magazines. Were defending the “clean look” of the total rigid hardtail!
But,
my point is that a bold design like this should get more respect.
I've said it before, I'd ride a Redalp if they actually worked.
For me the advantage of the gate would have to be massive to consider it, not negligible.
In the case of the Structure it would seem yes, however in the case of the Redalp I've never heard anything conclusive to say either way.
If it looked like a gate but didn't have a significant demonstrable performance advantage, then I would still have to consider one that looks like a bike.
They do have issues - weight, pickup, Q factor, fitting the suspension around it being some - and electronic shifting is an obvious development (available now for Rohloff www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/e-14).
For now (and probably even after e-shifting) I'm more than happy with the Pinion gripshifter. It's excellent.
They already had this when the bike came out first.
www.pinkbike.com/news/structure-cycleworks-carbon-enduro-bike-and-linkage-fork-sea-otter-2019.html
Here are pics.
imgur.com/a/wH0yDkL
To me it looks like this fork makes the HA steeper not slacker, so like any other fork on the market.
But they gave me that answer.
Quote:
"Under compression of both front and rear, the SCW 1 definitely gets slacker, moving from 66° to 58° at full compression. Under pitch (front compression only), our head angle changes by only .5° through the entire travel."
Doesn't any full suspension bike works like that?
And here: www.instagram.com/p/B8JnsHwn75W
Many more videos to come this season.
"It's called a Mini and I sit inside it, sir."
I love it when people think outside the box, having tried both the Motion Ride and Trust linkage forks I’m certain they can out perform telescopic forks, this is taking things to the next level.
It´s kinda like looking at a tank. Not an especially beautiful vehicle by any means, but there´s beauty in the way it exudes power and purpose.
lol spot on
figured there had to be a reason for such an atrocity.
Being able to pedal a bike is still a requirement on most I guess.
Also, @mikelevy, this has gotta be my favorite review of yours to date. Excellent writing and a lot of really good analysis.
Either Levy was riding too many different bikes over those 6 months for his finger to dial in this new way of braking for this bike or it takes longer to adapt than that. Just my thoughts.
Because we did not prioritize anti-dive over axle path, anti-dive in our system is viewed more as a useful side effect. NOTE that we still prefer a bit of suspension loading under braking. As we both know (probably too well), when it comes to braking you want maximum grip at the contact patch with enough modulation to prevent lock-up, so if the the four-pot Maguras are too powerful, something with more modulation (twin-pots) seems like a good solution. One of the things we're most proud of is that guys hop on the SCW1 and feel right at home going fast. We haven't had anyone say that hard braking required much adjustment, but we have heard a lot of, "Holy sh*t, these Maguras are almost too powerful."
Please don't take that as evasion or an excuse. If others ever report the same few milliseconds of lockup under almost vertical drops, we will be looking into kinder, gentler brakes, and may just offer twin-pots to lighter riders as standard.
I've only had a few days on the Structure so far, nearly all in slippery/wet conditions, but the braking didn't take any adjustment and I had no issues.
As a comparison, riding super long/slack bikes needed much more adjustment to ensure the front wheel was weighted. Sit back and relax on those and it's easy to wash out the front (I managed it climbing the first time I rode a 63 degree bike)
-golden stanchions
-overly exposed drivetrains
-oversized wheels
On this point, maybe Loni and crew should think about an HSP design to fully max out the Rube Goldberg machine thing they have going on (before anyone hammers me on this, I own a Druid - some of my friends jokingly refer to it as the Rube Goldberg machine).
As an aside, Loni and Structure hail from my home town - the Structure literally sits on the floor of my LBS. Like it or hate it, it's super cool having some local innovation. I love these guys, their passion, and their fearlessness. I wish them nothing but good luck and success in their pursuits.
Anyway, sorry for the derailment.
I am going to get in touch with Loni and ask him about the HSP option and whether he has considered it. I know that some Druid owners, even with the stock DPX2, say that no fork can match it performance-wise, air or coil sprung. That's been my experience too (although I just swapped out my FIT4 damper for a GRIP2, added a Luftkappe, and replaced the DPX2 with an 11-6).
As an aside, our rear end currently has kinematics that would almost directly overlay some current popular enduro models. It's the suppleness of the front that now makes a perfectly good four-bar rear seem crude. Talk about "first-world" problems.
Ha!
This isn’t a budget-friendly bike - it’s clearly high-end by any measure (just look at it!), so expecting it to cost what a budget bike costs is ridiculous. Not to mention the lack of economies of scale.
It may look complicated, but we made real efforts to make the bike easy to maintain and live with, as Levy experienced. Hopefully in time folks will see that front linkage is no more difficult to live with than the best linkage rears, which few riders nowadays describe as "too complicated to live with".
With the front suspension being very planted, how does it perform of jumps?
[...]when's the last time you reached for an umbrella? There's your answer."
[jingle] *its the analogy of the year sooo faaaaar* [/jingle]
We'll do some big drop to flat videos soon.
Yes...
"That's how I feel about deep-fried brussels sprouts, gravel riding, and the Structure during the first week I had it"
Oh thank god, I thought that was going someplace very uncomfortable, like the back seat of a volkswagen, or maybe a mini in Levy's case.
I kinda not find this bike revolting too...
maybe I need some time with a shrink
Seriously, we care about aesthetics, but function drives form. Look for plenty of variability to the looks of front linkage in years to come.
Let's do a cable actuated steering system like some cargo bikes.
Or better, an electric wireless system. Should be future proof.
Or maybe a hydraulic steering system ?
But I'm also a geek/nerd so the idea of a cable/hydraulic steering appeals to me. Also, all the huge mining machines use hydraulics so this is some strong stuff, I'd be more worried about sensitivity or lag.
I can think of a number of popularized AM/EN/FR frames that weight that much or more. Seems kind of disingenuous to call this setup heavy.
Also since this is a new design, in a few years the designers aught to have more ability to shave weight, whereas current chassis design has been wittled away at for a couple decades.
Otherwise both linkage designs maintain or increase trail values through the travel range. And both have anti-dive kinematics. Which are tunable on the structure frame design to suit feel or terrain preferences. Not so on the trust.
Seems to me this is an all or nothing proposition. Linkage forks need to be frame out integrated to reap the real benefits they provide. Otherwise just stay with telescoping.
I personally would be more willing to try one of these frames before I would just mount a linkage fork on a conventional bike. At least with the current limited options. Nevertheless, this is an exceptional effort at very relatively reasonable price and weight concessions.
As far as the all-or-nothing proposition of a Structure bike, very true. That is true of the rear linkage on most frames, BB and headset types, and a number of other brand-specific details. In our case the commitment is to two shocks (which we hope is not too strange (FRONT SHOCK, MIke Levy. Yes, we said it.).
That said, a tremendous amount of possibility for tuning exists on our bike for those who like to tinker. DVO is certainly not the the only metric trunnion shock that fits the SCW1, although we're big fans of the crew at DVO. Coil at the rear and a four-way adjustable front shock? Doable.
@mikelevy would a high pivot rear suspension layout give this bike the performance it needs to match the front AND give it the pedalling efficiency it has?
Pretty sure I saw this thing in Starship Troopers. The bug, an ugly but efficient (trail) killing machine.
Me too
www.instagram.com/p/BwLoURYAP87/?igshid=c1z6y1ppylb9
Does that mean I have to be set on fire?
=
Frock?
Shork?
Be interesting to see Dave Weagle's/Cesar Rojo's rear suspension added to this, would it reduce some of the choppiness from the back end that @mikelevy described? Kudo's for trying something outside the norm too, hope it works out for you.
Progress often results from improving one thing and then finding that another is not as perfect as we supposed!
Question on the looks: Why does the linkage need to stick so much in front of the bike? Couldn't this be done with shorter version, slacker angle that will make it resemble a more standard bike/fork and also make it more compact?
Regarding slackness, we chose 66° because we wanted nimble handling at/near sag. By 60% of the way into the travel in pitch (compression of only the front suspension), the 66° of the SCW1 is slacker than even a DH bike, which starts at ~63° static and ends up at ~73° at full compression. It takes long arms to hit these targets the way we wanted..
The loss of front suspension travel / front end dive when descending steep terrain with the brakes on has always been a big problem for me. Sure you can add more pressure to your fork (or make it more linear such as with the DSD Runt which works better) and this helps in that situation but makes the fork harsher / less compliant in other situations.
Guess this one works and the Trust sounds like an overinflated XC fork.
I would guess that the type of corner that requires you to turn your bars enough to generate any serious side loading in all the linkages is also going to require you to go so slow that it makes no difference.
Cool product.
Maybe it has something to do with showing off your gore tex jacket or something.
It’s definitely a thing here though. A quiet thing. A passive aggressive sleeper macho comment here or there, that’s exactly where you’ll encounter it. Kinda like here!
Umbrellas are so sick.
Although the a*shole giant golf umbrella is the MAGA hat of the Seattle. F those things.
Self loathing Stockholm Syndromers with the preemptive sabotage so we can save ourselves from ourselves with our waterproof breathables.
I'm popping the bubble. Catch me in a leather NASCAR jacket under an umbrella.
I find it notable that most of the riding shots are butt flavor. Let's see some 30° coming-at-us shots, or a vid of it approaching through some roots.
I don't doubt it works. But what are we doing here?
I pedaled around on the Structure bike in parking lot C at Crankworks last year as well, perhaps the same bike as used in the test. The bike felt just like it looks, like there is plush rear suspension directly in front of you. Parking lot test felt good for how little that was worth. I'd like to see this as a 29" with a long top tube and more Pole like seat tube angle!
I encouraged the Structure team to get these out in popular riding locations so people could get out and get firsthand riding experience on them. Possible coming Hood River...
Funny to see that this kind of design, which is not new at all, reappears and redisappears regularly as years are passing by. Makes me think that despite of its qualities, this design will never really pierce because of its alien singularity. I might be wrong though..
Yeah yeah, there's other linkage forks, but I am simply not ready to invest until it's established, proven, and doesn't look like you've bolted something on to the front of your bicycle that you could also fend off an Alien invasion with. I'm all for function over form but good lord these things are unsightly.
As the Regional Ambassador for Structure Cycles in the Vancouver/Whistler, if you are in the area, message me and we can set you up for a demo ride.
Personally, being someone 6'4" and over 240lbs, I not sure I would entrust my life to that design, as I think on the first ride I'd snap it like a turkey wishbone...which would quickly be followed by a smashed up face.
When the upper and lower control arms are mechanically connected to form a box of 8 points, it creates an incredibly stiff structure (consider how difficult it is to twist a box) with a typical - if truncated - steering head for the fork, which itself is immensely stiff due to its double crown, single-piece construction, and relatively short arms. The sum of these parts is a system that is 25% stiffer than a typical enduro telescoping fork.
Importantly, reduction in the chance of OTB is the main reason the SCW1 was designed in the first place, so we're thinking about keeping riders out of trouble, not getting them into it. Our factory builds bikes for other major brands and stands behind our lifetime warranty with riders like you in mind, and none of us wants to see you hurt.
Back to that carbon handlebar. We made sure it was by far the weakest point in the system.
I am 6'1" 200lbs am will be ripping this wicked ride all over the North Shore Mountains here in Vancouver. I'll definitely do a long term test review after a full season of riding.
Happy trails, and always land rubber side down.
I still love how well my Whyte PRST-4 handles, particularly after putting a set of high pressure slick tyres on it, hammering around slippery bumpy city streets in a big hurry! )
I am sold on the geometry, just when the front end starts to step out and traditional suspension forks would skip sideways, these things hang on.
Bring on the next lighter weight model with the bigger wheels, the better (my other bike is a 36er with no suspension required. )
"At no other point did I come across the same issue with locking the front wheel in any other situation, even under the heaviest of braking from hyperspace to a dead stop, or on steep-but-not-that-steep rock slabs, and low-speed maneuvers using the front brake were the same as on any other bike."
A little bit of play in the bushings got amplified for each bushing, and the end result was that barely noticeable play in each bushing added up to a whole lot of slop between skis and handlebar.
This would need some pretty amazing bushings to avoid this in the long term.
If they are widely enough spaced, it shouldn't really be a problem though.
geometrygeeks.bike/bike/structure-scw1-2020
I seem to miss some progressivity in the leverage ratio though?
No one else has reported the same sudden grab without room to modulate at the lever, and there's nothing in the articulation of the linkage that would make brakes bite harder mechanically, so our theory is that the braking force applied was simply too great for available grip at the contact patch in a near-vertical drop situation. The bike in question might have simply had a particularly hard-biting set of Maguras, but it's more likely that twin-pot calipers will serve lighter riders better than the extremely powerful four-pots on the bike Mike tested. We'll keep a careful eye on this and do some testing with other calipers, for sure.
I don't care about the looks, but either way, it'll grow on us.
Would love to try one, not sure about owning one.. I guess they could aim for the rental market to start?
www.instagram.com/p/BwLoURYAP87/?igshid=c1z6y1ppylb9
Ladies and Gentlemen, keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times, for your safety.
With a lifetime warranty on frame and bearings and reasonable crach replacement pricing, we're here for you when things go sideways. Of course, a bike that handles better in the first place will (ideally) crash less often!
And hardtail? Really? Why make the rear of the bike perform even worse? It already can’t keep up with the front. HT sounds terrible, especially considering the HTA change if not accompanied by some rear squish, too.
Anyway, how often do you really make use of your 180mm rig? Have you ever tried underbiking for once?
Do you need a shock in each spoke so you can fall asleep riding your bike and not get bounced around? SOme of us actually like to feel like we are riding a trail rather than a smooth road. Is that why you need so many stem spacers? So you can be in the old man cruiser bike position?
Also, I never knew people still rode doubles.....
FYI i dont own a civic....
structure.bike
wheels: www.wired.co.uk/article/softwheel
stem: www.cxmagazine.com/stafast-suspension-stem-air-shock-angle-adjustment-gravel
If the Shout had been as successfully reviewed, perhaps there'd be more buy in ...
I really appreciate what this bike represents, but I'd probably get a Shout before I'd buy a dedicated frame/fork system.
STFU, not everyone needs or wants 29er wheels.
And the head angle as a single number to hang your argument on is useless on this design, because it gets _slacker_ through the travel. Did you not even read your own article?
Also, how are you/they measuring head angle? The upper tube? The lower tube? The effective angle between lowermost crown and uppermost bearing? Because if it's just the lower tube, then the amount it slackens doesn't quite equate to the same extra slackness you'd find on a telescoping bike. If the bottom tube slackens by 7 degrees, the relationship between the front axle and the handlebars changes less than the same slackening on a solid front triangle. Most of the numbers just don't correspond to a conventional design, so it's pretty stupid to get hung up on them.
And you are right, not everyone needs or wants 29er wheels. however, some do/want.
There's no getting "hung up" on anything, just talking about the bike. Did you read the article? In it, I say that the static head angle won't sound slack enough to those who pay attention to those numbers, but I also go on to say that this bike's static numbers aren't as important as on other bikes.
You can be as rude as you want, but it'd help if you read the article first
Why not reinvent the wheel while youre at it?! ha!