Review: SRAM's New G2 Ultimate Brakes
SRAM's new G2 brakes are aimed at the trail bike and enduro crowd, and were designed to deliver more power and an improved lever feel compared to previous versions. There are two models of the four-piston stoppers, with the $280 USD Ultimates reviewed below sporting a carbon lever blade that rotates on a sealed bearing. You can save $100 USD by going with the alloy lever, bushing pivot-equipped RSC, which probably makes a lot of sense for many riders given that both versions offer tool-free reach and pad contact adjustments.
The weight is close between the two models as well - the 242-gram Ultimate is just 13-grams lighter than the RSC.
The weight is close between the two models as well - the 242-gram Ultimate is just 13-grams lighter than the RSC.
G2 Ultimate Details
• Intended use: trail / enduro
• New four-piston caliper
• Tool-free pad contact adjust
• Tool-free lever reach adjust
• Phenolic pistons
• Three pad compound options
• DOT 5.1 brake fluid
• Titanium hardware
• Weight: 242-grams
• MSRP: $280 USD per wheel
• www.sram.com
• Intended use: trail / enduro
• New four-piston caliper
• Tool-free pad contact adjust
• Tool-free lever reach adjust
• Phenolic pistons
• Three pad compound options
• DOT 5.1 brake fluid
• Titanium hardware
• Weight: 242-grams
• MSRP: $280 USD per wheel
• www.sram.com
The G2 caliper looks like a futuristic version of the original Guide, and it's said to be stiffer due to SRAM leaving more material around the two joining bolts.
What's New on the G2?
The G2 is the lightest four-piston stopper in SRAM's catalog, although it's within a handful of grams of the Guide Ultimate that we reviewed back in 2015. They are light, though, at just 242-grams (without a rotor), and that's with SRAM actually leaving more material on the caliper.
Wait, what? We're used to hearing about companies paring just a few grams off their latest creation, but SRAM has actually left extra material around the two bolts connecting each side of the caliper. They've also removed less material from the pad pockets in each of the caliper's face. The idea with all that is to up the caliper's rigidity, which in turn should make for a firmer feel at the lever when you're pulling it like your life is at risk. We all end up there sometimes. If you're looking for numbers, SRAM is citing a 7-percent increase in power from those changes.
In comparison, the original Guide caliper (left) looks pretty simple. SRAM had a steel heatsink hidden inside of it (right) that isn't needed on the G2 caliper.
There are updates inside the caliper as well. Gone are the aluminum pistons with an insulator in their center, with four phenolic pistons used instead. They're still a 14/15mm combo, though, whereas a Code sports 16/17mm pistons.
Phenolic is a funny looking word that refers to the pistons being made of a special resin rather than steel or aluminum, and they're said to do a better job of shrugging off the heat build-up that can happen down at the caliper during a long, hard descent. SRAM says they're so effective at that job that they've been able to ditch the steel heatsink that was hidden inside the previous Guide caliper. There are now three pad compounds to choose from as well; organic, metallic, and the new 'power organic' that's said to offer a more aggressive initial bite and better heat management than a traditional organic pad. Power organic is now the stock pad option.
The new caliper fits SRAM's Bleeding Edge fittings.
There's a load of changes at the caliper, but things are basically the same up top. The Ultimate's carbon blade rotates on a sealed bearing, and you have dials to tinker with both reach and pad contact point. The carbon blade is a matte UD job that looks like it's aluminum at first glance, so your friends might not notice that you've sprung for the high-end model. I wish you could see the carbon weave because, well, it plain looks cool, but that's small beans.
I bolted the new G2s onto our Giant Trance Advanced 29 for testing.
How'd They Perform?
As fun as locking a wheel up can be, power is nothing but trouble if you can't use it properly, and I've long rated SRAM's Guide stoppers, along with Magura's, at the top of the list when it comes to modulation. My concern was that a bump in power, along with a firmer feel at the lever, might mean that the G2 loses some of the control that its predecessor was known for.
That's a non-issue, though, as they feel every bit the SRAM brake that they are. That means an initial bite that's relatively gentle, at least compared to four-piston brakes from Shimano and others. That's with the new power organic pads, too, and it's always helpful when traction is low and the chances of going down are high. Picture wet, steep rock faces, of which there are always plenty to choose from here in Squamish, BC, and you'll get the idea. Locking up can mean a quick trip to the ground.
The G2's pad contact adjustment offers the same wide effective range as the Guide, and the tool-free reach adjustment refused to creep in or out during use.
Speaking of power, there's plenty of that as well. But with four pistons and claims of a stiffer caliper, that does make sense. Where do they slot in on the all-out power rankings? According to my bro-science-calibrated pointer fingers, I'd say that they're a tick or two below a Code or Saint brake on that front, but still with enough power for everyone short of plus-sized riders who are really pushing things. And maybe serious downhill racers. But the big differentiator between those two heavier options is that early braking control I was talking about above; the G2 is firm but just less abrupt.
The other question that needs answering: Are they consistent and reliable? I've had them on my strange Giant Trance Advanced 29 for a few months now, which probably isn't enough time for me to comment on the latter. That said, I've had zero issues with the G2's predecessor, so I have high expectations for these. They have been completely consistent (and quiet), with zero change in lever feel from day one. The end of the G2's lever throw is quite firm, too. A perfect bleed? Definitely, but there's a good combination of firmness without a hint of that nasty wooden feeling regardless.
Pinkbike's Take:
 | The new G2 is essentially an updated Guide brake that's going to be a good choice for anyone who doesn't need Code-like power. That's a lot of us, I suspect, and they make a lot of sense for trail riders and enduro types who fall into that category. |
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It's been a few years since I spun bike wrenches for a living, so I'm probably not up to date as @b45her is. But we had SRAM warranty on speed dial for brakes, cranks, road shifters, derailleurs. They were always nice and helpful, but we still had to call all the time. I only built and serviced several thousand bikes with sram brakes, which almost always needed to be re-bled out of the box.
We didn't have as many bikes with OEM shimano brakes, but we replaced a lot of SRAM brakes with Shimano. I called warranty for them a handful of times.
Maybe the new SRAM stuff is way better. I have a set of 18' codes and they seem fine. But I only have 1 pair - so I don't really know anything. Neither does anyone else with a sample size of 1.
I’ve had many more shimano warranties as well, mostly leaking ceramic pistons and leaking around the bladder in the lever. XT and up tend to have the most issues per capita out of my location, and shimano hasn’t always sent out replacements.
The guides ending in -17 had the piston issues but sram was great about warrantying every last set and they sent out a care package with a bunch of chains and small parts in it to make up for the labor time of swapping out levers.
I run SRAM brakes since it’s a lot easier to customize the lever feel and have it stay that way. Modulation and lever pull I prefer as well but that’s always personal. Their warranty department is a ton easier to deal with and much more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt/upgrade parts as needed in my experience.
However, I’ve had very few issues with shimanos cheap brakes on bikes I sell, but I never know how much they get ridden.
I am excited to have not had to warranty my TRP's .
Who'da thunk it
He's a SRAM sympathizer. Quick...lock him away quick before it spreads. LOL, JK.
I and really every one I know that ride have had the exact opposite to experience has you have. I would put the Sram guide problems to Shimano at 20-0 myself.
Where i am right now (big city, lots of commuters) it is the other way round, most shops won't even stock parts for Sram brakes because 99% of their disc brake customers run Shimano.
Since then I've been on all of their hydraulics, from the Juicy on up. Every model of Guide, and the Codes. In between I took a crack at the Saint and Zee. Didn't like the lack of modulation (although powerful) but they were never consistent. They would fade and come back all the time. Hated that on techy steap sections. Bled them numerous times, and correctly to try to remedy it, but no go.
Eventually locked back in on my favorite set, the '12-'16/'17ish Codes (the slate metallic grey ones). Started riding those when they came out in '12. Other than bleeds every summer as routine maintenance, I've rebuilt 1 master cylinder on one brake and replaced the piston seals on a caliper. Starting to get harder to find the master cylinder rebuild kits so I scooped up a couple sets when they were more readily available.
Brakes are another one of those things no one will agree on since everyone seems to have different experiences with them, but SRAM works well for me. (well, technically Avid's I guess..)
Zero Shimano issues.
Sram feels better, shimano is more reliable, that’s like the overwhelming consensus
i dont really mind either but i can see the appeal. more modulation is not always good. the sram brakes feel like you need to squeeze them harder no matter the setting, but you have more leeway in how you apply the pressure.
the shimano one feel more like "razor sharp" and if your finger move a bit too much you lock up, so in the end less modulation, but a "better feel" in many cases.
at least, thats, you know, like, my opinion and all
Every sram warranty I’ve had they provide tracked shipping back to them.
Does Shimano ever warranty brakes when the calliper seals fail?
The majority of 'warranty issues' mentioned here only confirm my view - reservoir leaking = most likely system has been overfilled or pads/rotor contaminated and rider is pulling too hard, if you squeeze amy Shimano system too hard the expansion reservoir will leak out the cap.
Again, pistons sticking = just need to remove pads and work the pistons in and out and oil them until they free up.
Really the only valid comment I see regularly is that their bite point/lever pull changes, this seems to be related to them sucking in air, again from excessive lever pull, getting too hot or pulling the lever while the bike is upside down, really the solution here is to get a more powerful model or run sintered pads which helps.
With the new Guides they do offer great finite control for trail type riding, but every pair I've used feels like a shimano set would with way too much air in the system, very spongy lever feel
We service hundreds of forks and shocks a year (including doing work that was done poorly by other local shops), we have custom built hundreds of wheelsets and cut all our spokes with a Phil Wood machine and we do lots of full restorations on lots of cool bikes.. Not saying that all shops are as capable as ours, but it's pretty hard to claim that we are not capable of solving whatever issue you have.
It’s nice that sram warranties their products, but I had to break off a 4 day bike trip after the 1st day, because my Guide lever was stuck. I could get them warrentied, but I don’t want to have the same thing happening again with future trips. I therefore just binned them and got different brakes.
youtu.be/9ZYmW8i8TWQ
www.epicbleedsolutions.com
Even the head of sram said at Interbike that it was inexcusable for his Company when he apologized. You would know this if you were there.
A good, reliable brake is fine with 3-5min procedure an idiot could perform. It just smells of manufacturers way to hide a shitty product behind complexity, sonthat they can say: “are you sure you are doing it right?”
3 to 4 Sram brakes warranty a week for us
Anybody ever heard of car brakes relying on mineral fluid? Just curious.
They just work.
I always laugh at that as well. You got guys like Kerr and Kendall-Weed both on em utalizing skill sets that require the upmost of brake feathering/modulation.
I'm obviously not sponsored, nor anywhere near as good as any of those guys and it is a non issue for me and my slx.. North shore, Whistler and all.
So unless Shimano changed something with the surface of the lever, it's going to be crap for many people. What is appaling is that they never announced a recall, and never adressed this issue in any statement. They are giving us a typical Russian PR silent treatment. Close your eyes, close your ears, don't open your mouth, never admit anything even if the whole world burns and you are holding a flaming torch in your hand behind your back, and everyone can see it!
Learn to brake properly and modulate with a "grabby'' brake and you'll not need to pull the lever as hard which will mean your forearms and hands aren't working quite as hard which can only be a good thing.
As an example I learned to manual with XT brakes, got my new bike with guides which I hated at first because felt like they would slow my wheel enough to bring the front end down (same story with hopping around and doing trialsy things, TERRIFYING on Sram Guides (the ones i had set up as mine were)). Now running the XT four pot brake and at first coming off the Guides I would always slam the front down when manualling or wheelying because they actually stop the wheel even without grabbing the brake all that hard, a few months in and I can wheelie and manual as I could before just with a lighter touch on my brakes.
All that being said the codes were damn powerful and in the last few weeks on my Guides I put a Guide RE (old Code) caliper on the back and it helped significantly.
Obviously that's all from my experience on just one set of each brakes mentioned and my personal preferences.
One more thing about the home mechanics side of things, super easy to bleed shimanos and all you really need is a syringe (any syringe, I've used a turkey baster) and a rag (catch the fluid in the rag instead if the proper funnel at the lever) and you can get the job done, Sram need two syringes (specific screw in ends, no basters here) and a process that is way more complex.
Sorry for ranting!
Also, u can get kick ass bleed kits with high grade syringes and the cups with many different attachments on amazon for about $15.00.Makes that bleed even more simple.
@waki yeah there’s not much difference between anything slx xt xtr except slightly better materials and a nicer finish on all components.
Crazy how much the internet differs from real life scenerios!
1. 2011-2016 Deore, SLX, XT (including your 2013 SLX) and XTR Race brakes - no unusual problems reported.
2. All one piece TRAIL master cylinders (XTR 980, Saint 820, M8000, M9000) - REAL LIFE ISSUE with the inner surface of the master cylinder and piston sealing = inconsistent bite, air getting into the system on regular basis. Ask any mechanic working in the business who has seen many many of them. It is undebatable, even Jeff Cavaliere won't help them with any magic rehab exercise.
3. M8020, M9020 - not enough data, too new stuff. Maybe they fixed THE LEVER. if you mount 8020 caliper to M8000 lever, the whole system will suffer from problems mentioned in point 2.
Sweet Bejesus freaking Christ - Is that clear now?!!!
I take the internet with a grain of salt..
I don't need to ask a mechanic.. Iam one.. A diesel tech but never the less been wrenching bikes for years.. Yes I understand the issues in point two and have read about it as well.. Never actually witnessed the issue tho from my local groups..
Like I said previously.. My slx are great and I'll run them for the season as I monitor the various shop riders current 4 pot xt/xtr groups..
Also I wouldn't mix match caliper /levers given the known issues as to point two.. Id buy the calipers levers complete on the new 4 pots.
The issues are over blown on this thing called the interweb..
I ride with two seperate shops on weekly and weekend rides.. On top of all the riders met that we meet on trails..
In the world in which I live I can count on one hand the issues that have been expressed on these brakes..
Yes I get it.. There has been piston leakage issues.. High maintenance is a bunch of bs.. Maybe on the ones that have an issue. Ratteling pads is hugely overblown and is nullified when u use a different pad... Trail noise is louder for f*ck sake!
Free stroke is an overfull reservoir 95% of the time.
Bite point I've seen and was corrected with a proper two way bleed.
No power? U must be on the good shit... I've never heard of a complaint on no power other than a contaminated set of pads, worn rotor, or shit bleed.. Shimano is notorious for power.
Modulation? Really? It's just a finer touch/featherimg control of the brake.. I mean Jesus christ I wonder how Jeff Kendall-Weed copes of that's the case
Most of these issues other than leaky seals/pistons are user related..
It's not rocket science.. Its more of an interweb blown out of proportion problem really..
My experience with SRAM/Avid is a consistent brake that doesn't fluctuate with temperature or brake use. There's no fading. The pad contact adjust works. They are tougher to bleed. To fine tune the pad contact sometimes you have to alter the width on the bleed block since there is a loss of fluid when trying to get the plug screw back in. The modulation is great. In the 8+ years I've been on them, I've replaced seals once and rebuilt a master cylinder once.
My experience with Zee and Saints is opposite. Outside temperature, fluid temperature had always messed with mine fading in and out. They were never consistent with me. Bleeding was really easy though. Those brakes were off and on. It had nothing to do with a "finer touch or feathering" of the brake pad. You could squeeze lightly half-way through the lever stroke and get nothing, and then get over the hump and you'd get all of the power. That was not to my liking. I tried multiple sets just to be sure it wasn't the ones I had.
Nothing to get worked up about, I really don't think there is a superior company, it's just what people like and have had good luck with. What has worked for one may not work for another.
Modulation is a nice to have. Jeff is a freak, we all know this. XT modulation sucks but the brake still works...its just not that ideal in some slower/wet stuff OR when you are following kids =). If I'm dropping money for brakes, I want the best performance today, regardless of history/maintenance etc and it isn't Shimano (unless new XTR is unreal but I haven't heard that so far). I want a bit of early modulation coupled with controllable power that ramps up aggressively with heat management for longer DH days. So I can modulate early in the stroke but the power is easily there and quick. I get all of that in spades with Codes. The best of both worlds with no compromise. I don't get that with XT, Saints, Deores etc. I have all of them Guides, Codes, SLX, Deores, XT in garage. Only Codes are truly ideal (with 180mm rotors) for what I've tried.
Also the contact point adjustment is legit...I actually dialed it in a bit which I never could do with the Guides or Shimano stuff. Guides I wanted it to bite soon due to the over-modulation (on my 180mm), the Codes however, its nice to have that early bite or even too early and then be able to adjust it in the middle a bit. Good for big DH when I want my levers closer to the bar for easy power...yet still adjust the bite point early. Then for normal days the levers are out a bit and the bite is moved in a little. VERY usable now. Seriously let go of those XT's and come over to Codes/Hopes or something that's a complete package. You'd see what you are missing (forget the guides).
You usually only here of the issues on forums is part of the issue.. You never really here about all the accounts of satisfied customers or people that don't experience issues..
You must of had a crazy situation then.
Suck a dick up till Ya hiccup home slice!
Haha, highly doubt shimanos profits will be affected.. The new 4 pots xt/xtr are super popular in my neck of the woods.. Still waiting for all these issues to occur on both of my shop rides 2x week..
No pride needed in my brakes.. They just work and I forget they're there.. The way it should be.
(I’m a shop manager and mechanic)
I'm not talking the two pot 8000xt or 9000xtr.
I get to try alot of different gear.. Including brakes.. The new xtr are the best out of the bunch end story.. The issues u describe I have not seen in real life even with the m8000 series xt.. Yes I've read(HEARD) of the issues..
Not sure what's so hard to understand! I can ride any brake I please.. Still making decisions as to my next purchase... So far, it's still shimano.
Lemons to limes boys, lemons to limes.
To bad about your slx.. Mine are going strong.. I used the finish line mineral oil in my latest bleed and they seem more dialed in this time.
Modulation is a non issue for me as I'm so used to shimano braking at this point in the hobby.
The newest xtr 9120 feel damn sweet!
I feel sorry for anyone who’s getting notifications for this nonsense guys but it’s just way too much fun making this guy look stupid.
Haha I'm afraid it is you that looks quite the daft ass hat there home slice..
U preach guides and that is all u know..
Get a little more educated maybe even some help in special needs class.. Then come back and have a chat!
Comprendo?
Hey I'll say this.. I'd rather roll my 2013 slx brakes on an absolute shredder than ride a kona process dl or an orange for that matter bro slice!
Neither of which are particularly that good.. Haha
Carbon levers sound silly but I love how much warmer my fingers are on a cold or wet ride vs when they're in steady contact with a heat sink...
And on the same bike (Trek Superfly) was a RockShox fork. Funny enough (or not funny at all) the air spring blew on the thing the same day of the first brake failure. All within a few minutes. The bike was a literal death trap!
No one else on the ride had imploding brakes or exploding forks due to hot weather.
I have been riding hope brakes since early-mid 2000's and never a hitch.
I got pretty frustrated with it, and ended up devising my own bleed kit - syringe and hose crimped on at the bottom bleed nipple, and avid bleed kit syringe at the top. I bled them like a SRAM brake - creating a vacuume at the bottom, then top, off gassing as best I could and then proceeding with the bleed, i bled bottom to top, top to bottom, bottom to top - probably about 10-12 rimes, to get air to stop appearing totally.
After that, they seem to work pretty well. They still act up in the cold, but I think that's a little more normal. They are on my girlfriends bike now because I know they won't try to kill her like the SRAMs.
Usually there are plenty of warning signs, like increased fading, burning smell, warped discs, funky lever feel, etc.
The exploding Reba air spring was also not uncommon around the same time. Not sure if it was due to heat or what, but the spring would blow up, and pressure the lowers, and then blow the wiper seal out of the lower leg.
Super reliable stuff.
And if that all wasn't bad enough, I've also warranty 3 Pike's for creating CSU's in the last 2-3 years.
AND the Pike that came on her latest bike (Kona Hei Hei Trail) was leaking oil from the top of the charger damper right out of the box. 2 rides and it went out for warranty.
Shit luck, or shit product....you tell me!?
FWIW my experience with Sram stuff has been good. Juicy 7 was good for many years with the occasional bleed, Elixir somethingorother was reliable with hardly any bleeding, current Guide is working fine so far, and various (Coil) forks were also fine. Our track records balance out pretty well. The truth of Sram reliability probably lies somewhere in between.
And a couple Monarch shocks that were completely average and worked fine.
Mixed bag. But way more failures that I'd like to see!
The issue was with the 2016 Guide R (not RSC), from what the shop told us. Not sure if it affected other model years. It's exactly like you said. In warm ambient temperature one of the seals in the master cylinder would swell slightly and the brakes would lock up. The lever was basically useless. Happened to 2 of my friends here in TX as soon as it got hot. Both bikes nearly brand new. You could put some water on the lever to cool it off for a little bit, but it would seize again shortly.
The local shops here knew about the issue and swapped out the lever internals. They haven't had any issues since.
Otherwise, I'd agree the guides have a spongy lever feel. I personally don't like that feel and I don't like the shape of the lever. I switched to maguras because I like the lever shape. I've been happy with them, but I've found they're a pain to fully bleed (no matter how much I try it always seems like there are bubbles in there)!
I also had some zee brakes on a previous bike and they were basically a switch - pull lever, with any force, ON, otherwise, off.
I haven't found brakes that feel exactly how I want, although the maguras are close. Lots of power if I grab a huge fistful, but I can feather them very easily. I just have to fiddle with them too much. Oh yeah, and the plastic on the lever body sucks if you crash. Damages too easily.
I'd like to try the trp quadiems or hopes, but I don't want to spend any more money on brakes.
Hope are more expensive, no doubt. But, problem free, and if you service them they will last as long as long as you care to own them, across several bikes for sure.
Still using hoses? weak.
Ive ridden the Guides on a Stumpjumper- getting to stop was literally a heavy finger workout...
Best bang for the buck in the aftermarket at the moment seems to be the Magura Trail Sport. Formula are fairly priced too.
Sticky levers incoming then. Consistency is key SRAM!
First generation Guide:
smaller opening, phenolic resin pistons
2nd generation Guide:
wider opening, alloy pistons, heat shield
G2:
smaller opening, phenolic resin piston, no heat shield.
But at least they introduced a more expensive model, and save 2 bearings for every rsc model
wtf???
How long are you riding them? I bought a pair 4 weeks ago, but had to warranty them, because the calipers f/r looked completley different. Also my adapters didn't fit and there seems to be a shortage of peacemakers (wich are way overpriced if you ask me...)
But still, i hope they will be great. Once i finally have them.
I'm running the new monolithic Formula Rotors, they come in 1,95 mm thickness, same as Hayes and they cost about half as much.
Trust sram to take a purely functional and descriptive naming convention and inject extra bullshit.
They pretty much just show up oem on the bike you bought right?
Never understood why the Guides exists, why not just buy Codes, why not have all the power possible, If you want to save weight and don’t need power, buy a 2piston brake, if you need the power, buy the powerful 4piston ones, brakes are not an area you can save much weight so why bother, power is much more important.
Newer seals in the caliper though, better tolerances...total new parts boner over here.
Could you do a long term group test so the best/worst are sorted out and then we can choose our next buy based on your test results and conclusions. Or maybe that is too much European magazine style?
I really can't remember using dumb washers. So either I used some wise adaptor for that 180mm rotor, or I had my first fork with IS interface.
ZEE solution is obvious.
I’ve switched the Guides mounted on my Rallon for Formula Cura 4. I’m mostly happy to get this ergonomy back but also appreciate the extra manageable power.