Review: SRAM's New G2 Ultimate Brakes

Apr 7, 2019
by Mike Levy  
SRAM G2 brake review


SRAM's new G2 brakes are aimed at the trail bike and enduro crowd, and were designed to deliver more power and an improved lever feel compared to previous versions. There are two models of the four-piston stoppers, with the $280 USD Ultimates reviewed below sporting a carbon lever blade that rotates on a sealed bearing. You can save $100 USD by going with the alloy lever, bushing pivot-equipped RSC, which probably makes a lot of sense for many riders given that both versions offer tool-free reach and pad contact adjustments.

The weight is close between the two models as well - the 242-gram Ultimate is just 13-grams lighter than the RSC.

G2 Ultimate Details

• Intended use: trail / enduro
• New four-piston caliper
• Tool-free pad contact adjust
• Tool-free lever reach adjust
• Phenolic pistons
• Three pad compound options
• DOT 5.1 brake fluid
• Titanium hardware
• Weight: 242-grams
• MSRP: $280 USD per wheel
www.sram.com


SRAM G2 brake review
The G2 caliper looks like a futuristic version of the original Guide, and it's said to be stiffer due to SRAM leaving more material around the two joining bolts.


What's New on the G2?

The G2 is the lightest four-piston stopper in SRAM's catalog, although it's within a handful of grams of the Guide Ultimate that we reviewed back in 2015. They are light, though, at just 242-grams (without a rotor), and that's with SRAM actually leaving more material on the caliper.

Wait, what? We're used to hearing about companies paring just a few grams off their latest creation, but SRAM has actually left extra material around the two bolts connecting each side of the caliper. They've also removed less material from the pad pockets in each of the caliper's face. The idea with all that is to up the caliper's rigidity, which in turn should make for a firmer feel at the lever when you're pulling it like your life is at risk. We all end up there sometimes. If you're looking for numbers, SRAM is citing a 7-percent increase in power from those changes.


SRAM Guide Ultimate
SRAM Guide Ultimate
In comparison, the original Guide caliper (left) looks pretty simple. SRAM had a steel heatsink hidden inside of it (right) that isn't needed on the G2 caliper.


There are updates inside the caliper as well. Gone are the aluminum pistons with an insulator in their center, with four phenolic pistons used instead. They're still a 14/15mm combo, though, whereas a Code sports 16/17mm pistons.

Phenolic is a funny looking word that refers to the pistons being made of a special resin rather than steel or aluminum, and they're said to do a better job of shrugging off the heat build-up that can happen down at the caliper during a long, hard descent. SRAM says they're so effective at that job that they've been able to ditch the steel heatsink that was hidden inside the previous Guide caliper. There are now three pad compounds to choose from as well; organic, metallic, and the new 'power organic' that's said to offer a more aggressive initial bite and better heat management than a traditional organic pad. Power organic is now the stock pad option.


SRAM G2 brake review
SRAM G2 brake review
The new caliper fits SRAM's Bleeding Edge fittings.


There's a load of changes at the caliper, but things are basically the same up top. The Ultimate's carbon blade rotates on a sealed bearing, and you have dials to tinker with both reach and pad contact point. The carbon blade is a matte UD job that looks like it's aluminum at first glance, so your friends might not notice that you've sprung for the high-end model. I wish you could see the carbon weave because, well, it plain looks cool, but that's small beans.



SRAM G2 brake review
I bolted the new G2s onto our Giant Trance Advanced 29 for testing.


How'd They Perform?

As fun as locking a wheel up can be, power is nothing but trouble if you can't use it properly, and I've long rated SRAM's Guide stoppers, along with Magura's, at the top of the list when it comes to modulation. My concern was that a bump in power, along with a firmer feel at the lever, might mean that the G2 loses some of the control that its predecessor was known for.

That's a non-issue, though, as they feel every bit the SRAM brake that they are. That means an initial bite that's relatively gentle, at least compared to four-piston brakes from Shimano and others. That's with the new power organic pads, too, and it's always helpful when traction is low and the chances of going down are high. Picture wet, steep rock faces, of which there are always plenty to choose from here in Squamish, BC, and you'll get the idea. Locking up can mean a quick trip to the ground.


SRAM G2 brake review
SRAM G2 brake review
The G2's pad contact adjustment offers the same wide effective range as the Guide, and the tool-free reach adjustment refused to creep in or out during use.


Speaking of power, there's plenty of that as well. But with four pistons and claims of a stiffer caliper, that does make sense. Where do they slot in on the all-out power rankings? According to my bro-science-calibrated pointer fingers, I'd say that they're a tick or two below a Code or Saint brake on that front, but still with enough power for everyone short of plus-sized riders who are really pushing things. And maybe serious downhill racers. But the big differentiator between those two heavier options is that early braking control I was talking about above; the G2 is firm but just less abrupt.

The other question that needs answering: Are they consistent and reliable? I've had them on my strange Giant Trance Advanced 29 for a few months now, which probably isn't enough time for me to comment on the latter. That said, I've had zero issues with the G2's predecessor, so I have high expectations for these. They have been completely consistent (and quiet), with zero change in lever feel from day one. The end of the G2's lever throw is quite firm, too. A perfect bleed? Definitely, but there's a good combination of firmness without a hint of that nasty wooden feeling regardless.



Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesThe new G2 is essentially an updated Guide brake that's going to be a good choice for anyone who doesn't need Code-like power. That's a lot of us, I suspect, and they make a lot of sense for trail riders and enduro types who fall into that category. Mike Levy







338 Comments

  • + 176
 The only review of any SRAM brake should be of bike shop employees after they've been out 6 months. Then you can poll them to see if there is a pair they HAVEN'T had to warranty discreetly.
  • - 16
flag b45her (Apr 5, 2019 at 11:21) (Below Threshold)
 I'm a shop mechanic and have had to warranty shimano brakes at a rate of about 20-1 compared to sram. ive never had any serious issues with anything since the juicys. shimano on the other hand are total shite.
  • + 35
 @b45her: Ah, the Juicy. "Maybe I'll fell perfect and let you execute brilliant manuevers on your ride...or maybe I won't. Maybe I'll work through part of this turn, but not the exit."

Bi-Polar
  • + 77
 @b45her: doubtful
  • + 21
 RIH Juicys (Rest in Hell)
  • + 121
 @b45her: these comments are so, so confusing. ALL the people I ride with have such a heavy shimano preference. All north shore really good riders, and when I lived in whistler, everyone from Scotland/england/aus said they preferred shimano. "modulation" isn't really as big of a deal as they make it sound in reviews in my opinion. I have zees and they have all the modulation I need, and so much power. Always trouble free, I essentially forget that they are there, which is a good thing.
  • + 6
 I'm a shop mechanic and I run Guides on both of my bikes because the Shimano's are a pain in the ass to work on and tend to need a much more frequent bleed.
  • + 51
 I think your suggestion is good for any consumer product. "Reliability" is thrown around on this website all the time with a sample size of 1 or 2. I'm sure there are several dozens of elixir brakes still around that "work fine" "never been bled" etc. I just saw a 90's Astro van that didn't have a sagging headliner, I should find a van forum and say how good they are.
It's been a few years since I spun bike wrenches for a living, so I'm probably not up to date as @b45her is. But we had SRAM warranty on speed dial for brakes, cranks, road shifters, derailleurs. They were always nice and helpful, but we still had to call all the time. I only built and serviced several thousand bikes with sram brakes, which almost always needed to be re-bled out of the box.
We didn't have as many bikes with OEM shimano brakes, but we replaced a lot of SRAM brakes with Shimano. I called warranty for them a handful of times.
Maybe the new SRAM stuff is way better. I have a set of 18' codes and they seem fine. But I only have 1 pair - so I don't really know anything. Neither does anyone else with a sample size of 1.
  • + 26
 @b45her: How much is SRAM paying you?
  • + 41
 @b45her:
I’ve had many more shimano warranties as well, mostly leaking ceramic pistons and leaking around the bladder in the lever. XT and up tend to have the most issues per capita out of my location, and shimano hasn’t always sent out replacements.

The guides ending in -17 had the piston issues but sram was great about warrantying every last set and they sent out a care package with a bunch of chains and small parts in it to make up for the labor time of swapping out levers.

I run SRAM brakes since it’s a lot easier to customize the lever feel and have it stay that way. Modulation and lever pull I prefer as well but that’s always personal. Their warranty department is a ton easier to deal with and much more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt/upgrade parts as needed in my experience.

However, I’ve had very few issues with shimanos cheap brakes on bikes I sell, but I never know how much they get ridden.
  • - 48
flag SlodownU (Apr 5, 2019 at 12:31) (Below Threshold)
 @parkourfan: Amazing how many of you "shop" guys post on here. I'll submit that you're all full of shit, since all of the shop guys that I know don't even go on internet bike sites, since there is nothing here for them to discover that they don't already know. I guarantee that the actual warranty rate of Sram vs. Shimano brakes has Sram way ahead. Next time I go to my friends bike shop I'll take a picture for you of the box that has all Avid and Guide brakes that he's warrantied. Most cases Sram didn't even want them back.
  • + 14
 I've warrantied 3 sets of shimanos (leaking levers) and 3 sets of srams

I am excited to have not had to warranty my TRP's .

Who'da thunk it
  • + 8
 I've never had any reliability issues with my Guides, I've now moved on to Codes, but have no concerns about them performing consistently over time as my Guides did take a serious beating on very steep terrain around NV, Squamish,Whistler. I just wanted a bit more power.
  • + 8
 @b45her: I wouldn't say they're shit but they definitely have an inflated reputation of reliability and performance. I run Guides and they're great, I had Saints and could get them consistent. The bite point and deadband were all over the place. 90% of my friends run XT and nearly every ride one of the brakes pulls to the bars or their standing around pumping them up. I went riding recently and a friend unloaded my bike and felt my Guides and said that out of everyone in the group my brakes felt by far the most dialed. Still on the stock bleed for 2 seasons.
  • + 12
 Discreet Warranty of brakes is how Shimano rolls, sorry. Have heard of Sram recalls, never heard of Shimano recalls and their inconsistent bite is a really good way to eat sht hard. Sram was sending new pistons, Shops were sometimes replacing them directly, Shimano on the other hand, you were without brakes for a month. While I agree that bike mechanics are the best source of info on reliability of any product, this time around the shots have been fired... and missed. Sorry
  • + 22
 @b45her: wow... I have warrantied probably 300 pairs of guides in the last 2 years. So much that SRAM just send us a box of levers ahead of time so we have them when we encounter issues.. And maybe 10 Shimanos in the same 2 years..
  • + 5
 @b45her:
He's a SRAM sympathizer. Quick...lock him away quick before it spreads. LOL, JK.

I and really every one I know that ride have had the exact opposite to experience has you have. I would put the Sram guide problems to Shimano at 20-0 myself.
  • + 13
 All those personal reports are not very useful without any information about the "brake population" they refer to. If your customers only run SRAM brakes you will obviously only ever warranty SRAM brakes. I would guess if you are a MTB specific shop in the US, chances are most of your customers are on SRAM because that is what comes stock on most complete bikes.

Where i am right now (big city, lots of commuters) it is the other way round, most shops won't even stock parts for Sram brakes because 99% of their disc brake customers run Shimano.
  • + 4
 I had so much trouble with my Guide RSCs I've sworn of Sram for the foreseeable. 3 warranties lever replacements in the first 12 months. I've run the same Shimano XTs on another bike for nearly 5 years. I run Hopes on another three bikes and I don't see that changing.
  • + 3
 @mattbrown9: They really stepped up when they dropped the avid name through the last generation of avid codes where really good. Took my guides out this week after not riding them since October and they were still absolutely solid haven’t been bleed in about a year brakes over two years old. Mentioned this before but I’ve had issues with 2 pairs of XT’s and one pair of slx all for the same reason as everyone else. Leaking pistons and random bite point and they don’t perform particularly well even when they are working properly. Took them two months to send me back my brakes sent back a pike and ks lev seat post at the same time which I got back the same week. Still I won’t be buying guides again if it doesn’t have a bearing in the lever on the rsc model.
  • - 8
flag Norconinja75 (Apr 5, 2019 at 14:02) (Below Threshold)
 Sram brakes are the worst brakes ever... period.
  • + 17
 Modulation? I've never understood how the brake is responsible for modulation. My brakes' modulation comes from how hard I squeeze the lever.
  • + 2
 I've been personally running SRAM/Avid since the introduction of the BB5. Those and the BB7 were great on the ole trials bike and the mechanical pad adjust was slick.

Since then I've been on all of their hydraulics, from the Juicy on up. Every model of Guide, and the Codes. In between I took a crack at the Saint and Zee. Didn't like the lack of modulation (although powerful) but they were never consistent. They would fade and come back all the time. Hated that on techy steap sections. Bled them numerous times, and correctly to try to remedy it, but no go.

Eventually locked back in on my favorite set, the '12-'16/'17ish Codes (the slate metallic grey ones). Started riding those when they came out in '12. Other than bleeds every summer as routine maintenance, I've rebuilt 1 master cylinder on one brake and replaced the piston seals on a caliper. Starting to get harder to find the master cylinder rebuild kits so I scooped up a couple sets when they were more readily available.

Brakes are another one of those things no one will agree on since everyone seems to have different experiences with them, but SRAM works well for me. (well, technically Avid's I guess..)
  • + 10
 @b45her: warrantied probably 10-12 Guides last year with frozen master cylinders and have already had to reset pistons on 5 this year on fresh out of box builds.

Zero Shimano issues.
  • + 9
 @trizachblak: what? Im barely able to torque my nuts properly and shimano brakes could be serviced by helen keller
  • + 5
 @SlodownU: I don't know how long you've lived under that rock but maybe you should visit more bike shops. The reason many mechanics are well versed is because we eat, sleep, live and read bicycles and yes, that includes pinkbike. How about you stop chirpin out your ass and do something productive.
  • + 2
 @krashDH85: You are one of the lucky ones. I loved the feel of the old avid codes . But they would freeze up and need replaced in a couple of months. Switched to hopes and haven't looked back
  • - 1
 @charnek: as someone who’s had issues with three separate pairs of shimano brakes in the last 12 months... I don’t believe you pretty much everyone I know has had issues with them most people just use them as temporary brakes as there dirt cheap and you can’t service them knowing full well that they’re going to blow up.
  • + 4
 @b45her: There are always statistical outliers, aren’t there. I, along with every mechanic I’ve ever personally talked to, have had nothing but endless SRAM warranties on the shelf every summer.
  • + 2
 @eicca: it’s almost like sram totally dominate the market and put way more product out than anyone else. I mean if they had any competition for reference then you might have a point bit when every bike comes fitted head to toe with sram then yes your going to see a lot of warranties. Never takes them long to get new parts out ether does it?
  • + 3
 @trizachblak: your literally the only person I’ve ever seen say that. It’s almost objectional that shimano is more reliable and easier to service.
Sram feels better, shimano is more reliable, that’s like the overwhelming consensus
  • + 1
 iunno, ive only 2 pairs of the previous guides and i havent had any issue. anecdotal but still ;-)
  • + 3
 @aceface17: ive noticed most people i know dont actually like having too much modulation and prefer the shimano brakes.
i dont really mind either but i can see the appeal. more modulation is not always good. the sram brakes feel like you need to squeeze them harder no matter the setting, but you have more leeway in how you apply the pressure.

the shimano one feel more like "razor sharp" and if your finger move a bit too much you lock up, so in the end less modulation, but a "better feel" in many cases.

at least, thats, you know, like, my opinion and all
  • - 1
 @bankz: you’re not riding steep enough trails if that’s your view on modulation. Likewise i see the appeal in shimano brakes if your riding bike park stuff where scrubbing speed is more of a factor and traction not much of an issue.
  • + 4
 @bankz: Not all the brakes are the same, its like everyone thinks the Guides are the only brake sram makes. The Guides do what you describe but are about the same power as XTs. You just have to pull hard unless you've gone up to 200mm rotors. Arm pump happens. The Codes are a different beast. A little modulation up front and than a really nice power ramp up. Like a Hope with more power at the end. My XT's are in no way a brake that has feel. They are fine at speed aside from not having enough power at speed. At slow speeds on wet-tech they kind of suck tho, this is clear. The beauty of the Codes is there is no compromise. You get the best of both worlds.
  • + 2
 @Pixels42: Same with me. Lever issues, seized caliper pistons, and endless vibrations and honking.
  • + 1
 @SlodownU:
Every sram warranty I’ve had they provide tracked shipping back to them.
  • + 1
 Same goes for Magura
  • + 3
 @b45her: you are one in a million then, SRAM has been the most warrantied brake at the two shops ive worked at.
  • + 6
 SRAM owned the design fault with the first generation of guides. If you warrantied 100s of them it was because they were replacing them.

Does Shimano ever warranty brakes when the calliper seals fail?
  • + 9
 @trizachblak: If you find Shimano brakes a pain to work on when they clearly have a more straight forward bleed process then you're doing something wrong
  • + 2
 Ha. I have owned 3 sets of sram brakes. All 3 had the levers warrantied. Hut after the replacement levers, zero issues and I love the brakes. It was easy with no hassle either. The shop replaced my levers with new ones in 20 mins and sent me on my way.
  • + 2
 I hate the old cliche of 'I work in a bike store and...'. I've also worked in a bike store as a mechanic but only for a very short period as the pay was crap and I would be the first to discredit being a 'bike mechanic' as any kind of reliable qualification, most bike shops do nothing but shoddy work and have no idea how to fix stuff unfortunately, it's very hard to find a competent bike store, so much so that I wouldn't even 'risk' taking my bike to one ever, I prefer to do all my own work from suspension servicing, brake bleeding, wheel building etc.

The majority of 'warranty issues' mentioned here only confirm my view - reservoir leaking = most likely system has been overfilled or pads/rotor contaminated and rider is pulling too hard, if you squeeze amy Shimano system too hard the expansion reservoir will leak out the cap.

Again, pistons sticking = just need to remove pads and work the pistons in and out and oil them until they free up.

Really the only valid comment I see regularly is that their bite point/lever pull changes, this seems to be related to them sucking in air, again from excessive lever pull, getting too hot or pulling the lever while the bike is upside down, really the solution here is to get a more powerful model or run sintered pads which helps.

With the new Guides they do offer great finite control for trail type riding, but every pair I've used feels like a shimano set would with way too much air in the system, very spongy lever feel
  • + 2
 @ctd07: here you go.... I was a helicopter mechanic for 5 years and kept them flying.. I loved the work but hated the schedule. And I am now a bike mechanic again. My manager is a civil engineer who spent the first 25 years of his life as a Ferrari mechanic. Neither of us work on bikes to get rich, we just love bikes and getting people riding..


We service hundreds of forks and shocks a year (including doing work that was done poorly by other local shops), we have custom built hundreds of wheelsets and cut all our spokes with a Phil Wood machine and we do lots of full restorations on lots of cool bikes.. Not saying that all shops are as capable as ours, but it's pretty hard to claim that we are not capable of solving whatever issue you have.
  • + 0
 @Dexta: they’re super easy to bleed but you have to bleed them all the time at least with sram you know you won’t have to do it again until you get new pads at least.
  • + 0
 @thenotoriousmic: my experience with bleeding 2012+ Shimanos is as bad as Srams until 2017 models. The latest Code is a breeze. Like first servo wave shimanos which were as straight forward as hopes
  • + 2
 @ThunderChunk:
It’s nice that sram warranties their products, but I had to break off a 4 day bike trip after the 1st day, because my Guide lever was stuck. I could get them warrentied, but I don’t want to have the same thing happening again with future trips. I therefore just binned them and got different brakes.
  • + 2
 I’ll put it like this: bleeding m7000 and m8000 Shimanos is like servicing Reverb at home. At some point in an act of desperation you will want to perform the rain dance and read Necronomicon to cure away whatever demon sits inside. It happened to me too many times to fail to get a firm lever feel, got out for a ride with best whatever result, only to find the lever go all the way to the bar 100m down the street From my home. Pre 2012 Shimanos, you open bleed screw refill the brake at the top a few times, 3 minutes later you put the plastic bag around the bar, under the lever, flush the system with full syringe, pump the lever a few times - Done! And I did it like once a year.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: follow this video (I find it the best) and get yourself a proper bleed kit, just done mine yesterday and they feel awesome, no cursing, just being methodical and know your enemy = air.

youtu.be/9ZYmW8i8TWQ
www.epicbleedsolutions.com
  • + 2
 @b45her: How about all those defective guide levers. Now I know you're liyin, every bike shop had them.
Even the head of sram said at Interbike that it was inexcusable for his Company when he apologized. You would know this if you were there.
  • + 3
 @swan3609: what shop do you work at where you can have 300 pairs come in for warranty!? Are you hiring?
  • + 1
 @TheBearDen: 300 was a bit of a streach..... But over the last 2 years, I know that we have done over 150 pairs. I had a day last year where I did 4 sets in one day.
  • + 2
 @mattbrown9: I've had 2011 codes since new and have done three pad changes and one bleed thier whole life and they are still the best brake I have even though they are the oldest brake I have.
  • + 1
 @iamamodel: but you get tired and your 'modulation' is all over the place, typical shimano
  • + 4
 @ctd07: the moment someone tells me to get a proper bleeding kit is the moment I am sure the brake is crap. Because all the good brakes I had do not need special, proper bleed kit nor do they need some mystical combination of opening/ closing bleed kit, pumping the lever then opening the bleed port etc.
A good, reliable brake is fine with 3-5min procedure an idiot could perform. It just smells of manufacturers way to hide a shitty product behind complexity, sonthat they can say: “are you sure you are doing it right?”
  • + 2
 Get them warrantied. The new levers fixed the problem. No since in just throwing them away. I’ll gladly take them off your hand if you don’t want them. @cvoc:
  • + 2
 @b45her: I had three Guide RSC warrantied last year....my XT's have been the usual, non issue. I'm just a guy that rides bikes. Maybe it's the air where you live?? Smile
  • + 1
 @GlassGuy: dang... That's a lot for one guy. What year were they?
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: you're doing it wrong then..putin the bleed cup, turn the reach a dust screw out, pump the lever till the aur is out, then open the bleed screw on the caliper. Easy peasy.
  • + 1
 @trizachblak: so you are not the best mechanic if you have problems with shimano brakes…
  • + 4
 @clink83: yo dawg why u gotta bring Putin into this?
  • + 2
 @swan3609: well said and the same here.
3 to 4 Sram brakes warranty a week for us
  • + 2
 @cuban-b: no collusion!
  • + 1
 I agree with Waki on this particular issue, the inconsistent bite of Shimano brakes makes them inferior. I blame in on the more natural mineral fluid rather versus the toxic dot fluid in Sram's.

Anybody ever heard of car brakes relying on mineral fluid? Just curious.
  • + 3
 @b45her: weird... I'm still bangin away on a pair of slx from 2013 already on their 4th frame... Keep thinking I'm going to upgrade and then just end up forgetting about them..

They just work.
  • + 2
 @aceface17: I hear Ya... Still on some 2013 slx that just keep going.. Modulation is a non-issue.. Just need a lighter touch.
I always laugh at that as well. You got guys like Kerr and Kendall-Weed both on em utalizing skill sets that require the upmost of brake feathering/modulation.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Still waiting to eat shit on my 13 slx.. Keep meaning to upgrade but then forget they are even there and move on..
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: I bought the proper bleed kit of amazon for $15.00.. Watched the Don do his bleed on gmbn in 10 min.. Went and did the same.. Although it took me about 20 min fist time.. Pretty simple if u ask me.
  • - 2
 @bohns1: the older ones didn’t have lever issues but Bleeding was still a pain for me. I had the original bleeding kit. I bought saints in 2010 and they were stellar. Sold them with the bike and the owner still uses them with no issues. Deores are great too. I had 2013 XT for a while and maybe my model was screwed but they had rather crappy modulation. I was getting an even build up of power through like 50% of the lever stroke and then they were becoming an on/off affair
  • + 2
 @Flowcheckers: ya I don't know how Bernard Kerr, Jeff Kendall-Weed or Brian Lopes deal with such inconsistencies on their shimanos.. I mean, I get they're sponsored but still

I'm obviously not sponsored, nor anywhere near as good as any of those guys and it is a non issue for me and my slx.. North shore, Whistler and all.
  • - 2
 @bohns1: I talked to a world renown pro rider sponsored by Shimano and he said he the first batch of M8000 was a disaster and the “refined” batch needs frequent bleeding. Just something to live with Smile
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'd be stepping to 4 pot 8020 if I upgraded. Huge love for them around here..
  • + 1
 @NZPeterG: well that just tells us that a lot more people ride sram, not that the brakes aren't as good. All brakes can fail doesn't matter the brand. Ive had both brands work amazing and work like shit.
  • + 0
 @bohns1: single pots are powerful enough, so this can be only better. No doubt about it. But again, it was not the calipers, it was the levers that were causing all the trouble. I am now 3 rides into Codes and they seem a bit too strong for me. I’ll see. Single pot XTs had the exact amount of power I needed and fading was minimal. I have very little issue with arm pump. Romanian deadlifts do the job, so i don’t care about the power much. Wanted codes for modulation of final bit of stroke and the consistent lever feel
  • + 2
 Just got done with a ride on my 10 year old Epic with Avid Elixirs (that I’ve done zero maintenance on aside from pads and the very infrequent bleed) because the Guides on my 5010 are once again spongy as hell and in the shop. Definitely hoping that SRAM has a reliable alternative out there.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: tried my buddies new m8020 set up and there is more modulation with them for sure as well as power.. Not saint like but not far off.. Perfect for what I'd need.. I've never had this bite point issue some speak of tho.
  • + 0
 @bohns1: Again doesn’t matter because your still going to get the same problems as before maybe even more if there’s more stress on the seals.
  • + 1
 @bohns1: they barely use them, no way the won't complain about inconsistencies for that matter
  • + 1
 @aceface17: you better don't forget where you left your brakes.
  • + 1
 @b45her: maybe the sram users throw them directly in the rubbish can.
  • + 2
 @thenotoriousmic: that's well within your right to not believe a name on the internet. Dont blame ya. But in my neck of the woods, near Keystone, so lots of trips to the desert too, people replace Guide with either Code or XT and are much happier. Guides are weak and now noone trusts them to last.
  • + 2
 @thenotoriousmic: I call bs.. Still waiting for problems with my slx 2013...Riders in my area are loving the m8020 As well.. I'll believe it when I see it
  • - 1
 @bohns1: there is something going on with the inner surface of the master cylinder making for a bad seal and quick wear by the piston, then wear of the seal if I remember right. Once the seal is worn it sucks in air. And as far as I know they actually haven't fixed it completely with recalled brakes, probably just changed the seal or something. A symptom of it is black contiamination of the brake fluid, which can occur already within a few weeks since the bleed. I actually saw the contaminated fluid within a week. I did a fast pre-ride, poor bleed bottom up and it wasn't feeling good from the start but I didn't want to be late for a ride. So week after I bled it again, the first thing that shows is traces of black something, even though I flushed the system completely with fresh oil in the previous bleed. The inconsistent bite point and grabbing directly is a genuinely dangerous feature, especially when riding on bumpy stuff, as the lever can engage pads hard and instantly, while your bike jumping around is naturally making you press the lever a little bit. I did a brake check before getting between two trees once and my rear brake grabbed hard directly, I went sideways through the gap, not hitting any of them by sheer luck. I also overcooked a corner once, came to a near stop in the middle of it, then wanted to pedal but my finger pressed the lever just a tiny bit as I leaned forward to pedal, dank! over the bars.

So unless Shimano changed something with the surface of the lever, it's going to be crap for many people. What is appaling is that they never announced a recall, and never adressed this issue in any statement. They are giving us a typical Russian PR silent treatment. Close your eyes, close your ears, don't open your mouth, never admit anything even if the whole world burns and you are holding a flaming torch in your hand behind your back, and everyone can see it! Smile
  • + 2
 @adespotoskyli: u saying Kendall weed or Kerr barely use their brakes? U can't be serious?
  • + 1
 @aceface17: I've always had trouble understanding just what modulation is, having ridden Zees, dual piston XT guides for a while and now quad piston XT with two days on a friend's DH bike with the old codes, here's my two cents on modulation: it means that it's harder to lock up the wheel which means that to get a lot of power out of the brake you need to pull the lever quite hard-> more arm pump/hand cramps therefor no good.
Learn to brake properly and modulate with a "grabby'' brake and you'll not need to pull the lever as hard which will mean your forearms and hands aren't working quite as hard which can only be a good thing.
As an example I learned to manual with XT brakes, got my new bike with guides which I hated at first because felt like they would slow my wheel enough to bring the front end down (same story with hopping around and doing trialsy things, TERRIFYING on Sram Guides (the ones i had set up as mine were)). Now running the XT four pot brake and at first coming off the Guides I would always slam the front down when manualling or wheelying because they actually stop the wheel even without grabbing the brake all that hard, a few months in and I can wheelie and manual as I could before just with a lighter touch on my brakes.
All that being said the codes were damn powerful and in the last few weeks on my Guides I put a Guide RE (old Code) caliper on the back and it helped significantly.

Obviously that's all from my experience on just one set of each brakes mentioned and my personal preferences.

One more thing about the home mechanics side of things, super easy to bleed shimanos and all you really need is a syringe (any syringe, I've used a turkey baster) and a rag (catch the fluid in the rag instead if the proper funnel at the lever) and you can get the job done, Sram need two syringes (specific screw in ends, no basters here) and a process that is way more complex.

Sorry for ranting!
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Basically Shimano brakes suck like pretty much anything shimano these days. Though I can’t speak for the fishing rods.
  • + 2
 @thenotoriousmic: put down the meth pipe, hoss
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: wow sounds dramatic.. I'm going to run my slx probably this season and see how my riding buddies get on with their 4 piston 8020s.. I'll make a move from there
  • + 2
 @Louisd2000: I hear Ya.. Its just a lighter touch with shimanos to modulate.. Tried the 4 pots and they felt sweet..

Also, u can get kick ass bleed kits with high grade syringes and the cups with many different attachments on amazon for about $15.00.Makes that bleed even more simple.
  • + 0
 @willycoolman: Hey Willy, I’ve been riding and wrenching on bikes before you were even a wet spot in your daddies pants, so why don’t you go swan dive into a pile of dicks.
  • + 1
 @bohns1: I have a proper bleed kit at home as does the shop where I work, just to make a point about just how basic it is, it did happen in a moment of desperation though! Get proper bleed kits kids!
  • + 1
 @b45her: liar, liar, pants on fire. I’ve had three sets of Guides warranted for lever failure. My Shimano brakes work flawlessly. It’ll be s cold day in hell before I’ll trust SRAM brakes again. But I do like their drivetrain,
  • - 1
 @pargolf8: what do they actually make that’s actually good these days? XTR hubs? Opps.
  • + 2
 @thenotoriousmic: 11sp mechanical XTR rear mech and shifter are super tits. Their chains are super tits. Their cranksets are the best out there if you consider functionality, durability, weight and price all together. The only thing their cranks miss ATM, and hopefully 12sp XT will solve it, is an affordable spiderless option.
  • + 2
 @b45her: So you're the only mechanic on the planet who never threw a set of Avids across the room into your special Avid filing cabinet?
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: you mean they make really good budget cranks with is true they do make the best cranks at a certain price but they’re not the best by any stretch. XTR shifter and mech is really good but still not as good as xo xx1 or even gx possibly so they’re not leading the field there ether. So what do they actual make that’s legitimately good that someone else doesn’t do better? Chains? Well done shimano.
  • + 2
 @thenotoriousmic: you can look up product sheet of SLX crankset on CRC and then show me something that beats them by any signinficant amount without costing 300£ more. No RF crank does, no Sram crank does, Hope crankset doesn't either - I'll save you the time. The only cranks that beat them are carbon cranks, in weight department, at the cost of durability, so why would you run carbon crankset in the first place
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: carbon cranks are death traps. Fine until you clip a pedal or land one footed and rip the inserts out. But yeah XT cranks are all you need.
  • + 2
 @thenotoriousmic: but XTs offer virtually nothing over SLX. They are whole 10g lighter. I prefer the way SLX looks over XTR and defo over XT. Quite frankly Deore looks good to me too. 2008 SLX crankarms weighed 560g and were bombproof, at least for 75kg me. XTR from the same year was only 30g lighter and was damn strong too. I cased the sht out of jumps on them. Shimano cranks are like minion dhf or dt swiss rims, renthal bars CCDB or hope brakes (as I am told). Results and preferences may vary slightly, but none of them will let you down and you can get 90+% pf available performance of nearly every situation, everywhere in the world. If you on another hand get some Rental Cube bike with Schwalbes, Magura brakes, GX drive train, low end RS Suspension, RF controls, then you have no idea what the hell can happen and something probably will
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Right on, WAKI! I rode Freeride on the Deore M615 cranks for several years, put them on my DJ bike afterwards and they held up incredibly! At some point I replaced them for some Chesters, as I wanted bombproof. Your comment is right on the money! SLX is just perfect for the average freerider, I'd love to see what the new 4pot Deore can do! Moreover, after looking at some bike builds in 2019, the low-end ones are a lot better than the expensive options.
  • + 2
 @bohns1: er what?

@waki yeah there’s not much difference between anything slx xt xtr except slightly better materials and a nicer finish on all components.
  • + 1
 @b45her: I almost believed you until you said you haven’t had issues since the juicy. Did you already forget the elixir nightmare?
  • + 2
 @b45her: funny because my co worker made an apoxy table with 30 guide warranty levers...
  • + 1
 @swan3609: TRUE
  • + 1
 @SlodownU: by your theory then why are you on PB? If your such a mechanic.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I had an 10 speed SLX crankset on my scott scale 900 SL, that's how good that crankset is weight/durability wise.
  • + 1
 @daugherd: I don't know why XT brakes act that way but I have a set of M8000 that pump up and two sets of M7000 that are flawless. So I just buy SLX now. Better finish anyway!
  • + 1
 Try modulate a light switch with how hard u push the switch. On off. Is Diffrent then a dimmer switch @iamamodel:
  • + 0
 @JohanG: SLX are made from slightly cheaper heavier materials which cope with heat better and they don’t have the free stroke adjuster which was supposed to be the main source of the problem with XT’s so I went and bought some to replace my XT and yeah they are slightly better but not by much both up there as some of the worst brakes I’ve owned but they’re super cheap so I guess you get what you pay for.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: The 4 pot xt 8020 and xtr 9120 are superb.. None of of the riders I've talked to on shop rides have had issues yet in regards to these.. I'm still on 2013 slx that have never given me even a hint of an issue other than bleed and pad replacement.. They just work.. Modulation is just different on shimano.. Its a lighter touch compared to sram.. When use to it it is a non issue..

Crazy how much the internet differs from real life scenerios!
  • + 1
 @bohns1: again...

1. 2011-2016 Deore, SLX, XT (including your 2013 SLX) and XTR Race brakes - no unusual problems reported.
2. All one piece TRAIL master cylinders (XTR 980, Saint 820, M8000, M9000) - REAL LIFE ISSUE with the inner surface of the master cylinder and piston sealing = inconsistent bite, air getting into the system on regular basis. Ask any mechanic working in the business who has seen many many of them. It is undebatable, even Jeff Cavaliere won't help them with any magic rehab exercise.
3. M8020, M9020 - not enough data, too new stuff. Maybe they fixed THE LEVER. if you mount 8020 caliper to M8000 lever, the whole system will suffer from problems mentioned in point 2.

Sweet Bejesus freaking Christ - Is that clear now?!!!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: That's great I have my own data.. Its called real world riders.. Lots good reviews on top of that.. They've been out awhile now.. In my world, I've yet to see an issue on any of the 4pots..Thats good enough for me buddy!

I take the internet with a grain of salt..
  • + 1
 @bohns1: yeah the ones you’ve got don’t have the same problems. I know people who are still using xt and slx brakes from that year no problem it’s the newer ones that do it and they haven’t changed anything except released a four piston version. You’re still going to have the exact same problems just with probably more leaks as now you’ve got 8 pistons to fail instead of just 4.
  • + 2
 @bohns1: "In my world, I've yet to see an issue on any of the 4pots..." you did not even try to understand what I wrote... Please reread the first freaking sentence of point 3. And please ask a mechanic who is not a kid working a summer job about point 2 unless that does not count as a real world data for you. I would not write it if I wouldn't speak to mechanics, also the amount of online data is tremendous so you better take a very little pinch of that salt. it's like: "does eating protein build muscle?" - google answers with majority of article saying YES. Some holistic bullshitters think otherwise. Write "does cupping or taping speed up healing?" - most scientifc articles will say NO. A bunch of holistic bullshitters and producers of "rehab tape, infused with fkng snake oil" (literally!) will say: YES it does! Google inconsistent lever bite Shimano - are you insisting there is some kind of SRAM of God knows who perpetuated conspiracy? Holy sht...
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: I'm waiting to see those issues arise from my local shops and ride groups.. Making my assement from there
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: yep saw that.. Not enough data is irrelevant to what I'm seeing real world and reading.. There's the odd pump up problem but that is mostly incorrect bleeds and gets sorted with forum help..

I don't need to ask a mechanic.. Iam one.. A diesel tech but never the less been wrenching bikes for years.. Yes I understand the issues in point two and have read about it as well.. Never actually witnessed the issue tho from my local groups..

Like I said previously.. My slx are great and I'll run them for the season as I monitor the various shop riders current 4 pot xt/xtr groups..

Also I wouldn't mix match caliper /levers given the known issues as to point two.. Id buy the calipers levers complete on the new 4 pots.
  • + 0
 @bohns1: are you claiming to not know about the many issues shimano brakes suffer from? Leaky pistons? High maintenance? Rattling pads? Free stroke doesn’t work? Inconsistent? Different bite point from one corner to the next? No modulation? No power? Is this serious all news to you? Link us your Instagram I’m going to need to see some brief mate.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Can I smoke some of what u have?

The issues are over blown on this thing called the interweb..

I ride with two seperate shops on weekly and weekend rides.. On top of all the riders met that we meet on trails..

In the world in which I live I can count on one hand the issues that have been expressed on these brakes..

Yes I get it.. There has been piston leakage issues.. High maintenance is a bunch of bs.. Maybe on the ones that have an issue. Ratteling pads is hugely overblown and is nullified when u use a different pad... Trail noise is louder for f*ck sake!

Free stroke is an overfull reservoir 95% of the time.

Bite point I've seen and was corrected with a proper two way bleed.

No power? U must be on the good shit... I've never heard of a complaint on no power other than a contaminated set of pads, worn rotor, or shit bleed.. Shimano is notorious for power.

Modulation? Really? It's just a finer touch/featherimg control of the brake.. I mean Jesus christ I wonder how Jeff Kendall-Weed copes of that's the case

Most of these issues other than leaky seals/pistons are user related..

It's not rocket science.. Its more of an interweb blown out of proportion problem really..
  • + 1
 @bohns1: Problems on forums are usually not blown out of proportion, just everyone on forums shares their issues because someone else has usually had them, and it's good resources for finding fixes. Think of all the car and MC forums out there. 99% of the threads are "issues" and "fixes", which is great for DIY'ers. All of the problems on this forum are issues everyone has had. Nothing blown out of proportion.

My experience with SRAM/Avid is a consistent brake that doesn't fluctuate with temperature or brake use. There's no fading. The pad contact adjust works. They are tougher to bleed. To fine tune the pad contact sometimes you have to alter the width on the bleed block since there is a loss of fluid when trying to get the plug screw back in. The modulation is great. In the 8+ years I've been on them, I've replaced seals once and rebuilt a master cylinder once.

My experience with Zee and Saints is opposite. Outside temperature, fluid temperature had always messed with mine fading in and out. They were never consistent with me. Bleeding was really easy though. Those brakes were off and on. It had nothing to do with a "finer touch or feathering" of the brake pad. You could squeeze lightly half-way through the lever stroke and get nothing, and then get over the hump and you'd get all of the power. That was not to my liking. I tried multiple sets just to be sure it wasn't the ones I had.

Nothing to get worked up about, I really don't think there is a superior company, it's just what people like and have had good luck with. What has worked for one may not work for another.
  • + 0
 @bohns1: No the issues are not overblown on the internet. I’ve had issues with four XT and two slx in the past year all for the same reason all had the same issues. They suck! They go from being mediocre to being dangerous from one corner to the next. You need to bleed them around every five rides to minimise this. They overheat so fast and they have no power a lot of initial bite but no actual real power you have to pull hard when riding really steep tracks and when you do you can actually feel the lever flex in your hand. The rattle in the pads isn’t about the noise it’s about there being a dead spot in your braking as you’re trying to modulate down something like a steep wet rooty chute. Anyway how’s there a debate when there’s actual adjustments that work on a sram brake?
  • + 2
 @bohns1: My XT's aren't that bad but they aren't powerful. Saints overcourse. XT's middle of the road. When I'm going fast it is nice that I don't have to pull very hard to access that power; unlike my Guides, but once the power is on...its not a lot but not bad. Enduro brake test showed about the same or worse deceleration results for XT's compared to guides(I think the guides were even better). They just clamped the lever tho so the guides extra pull strength required (which gave me some arm pump at times) wasn't a factor....yet the fact remains the XT's at full grab didn't slow down as fast as Guides at full grab. Same thing on the trail for me.

Modulation is a nice to have. Jeff is a freak, we all know this. XT modulation sucks but the brake still works...its just not that ideal in some slower/wet stuff OR when you are following kids =). If I'm dropping money for brakes, I want the best performance today, regardless of history/maintenance etc and it isn't Shimano (unless new XTR is unreal but I haven't heard that so far). I want a bit of early modulation coupled with controllable power that ramps up aggressively with heat management for longer DH days. So I can modulate early in the stroke but the power is easily there and quick. I get all of that in spades with Codes. The best of both worlds with no compromise. I don't get that with XT, Saints, Deores etc. I have all of them Guides, Codes, SLX, Deores, XT in garage. Only Codes are truly ideal (with 180mm rotors) for what I've tried.

Also the contact point adjustment is legit...I actually dialed it in a bit which I never could do with the Guides or Shimano stuff. Guides I wanted it to bite soon due to the over-modulation (on my 180mm), the Codes however, its nice to have that early bite or even too early and then be able to adjust it in the middle a bit. Good for big DH when I want my levers closer to the bar for easy power...yet still adjust the bite point early. Then for normal days the levers are out a bit and the bite is moved in a little. VERY usable now. Seriously let go of those XT's and come over to Codes/Hopes or something that's a complete package. You'd see what you are missing (forget the guides).
  • + 1
 @Svinyard: agreed my guide rsc’s have been the best brakes I’ve ever owned I love them but there’s absolutely no reason to get them over codes now especially now you don’t get a bearing on the new version.
  • + 0
 @krashDH85: crazy I feather mine when manualing and wheeling and pretty much have them figured.. They are not just off/on.. U can. Modulate with a light feathering..
  • + 1
 @Svinyard: dude many guys can modulate these brakes.. I have them figured with wheelies and manuals myself albeit not like Jeff it can be done.... How do gmbn guys do it? They aren't all freaks

You usually only here of the issues on forums is part of the issue.. You never really here about all the accounts of satisfied customers or people that don't experience issues..
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: never witnessed these dangerous sceneries with any of the shop rides I've been on at any point in the last three seasons..

You must of had a crazy situation then.
  • + 2
 @bohns1: HOLY SHIT STOP REPLYING TO THIS IM SO SICK OF GETTING NOTIFICATIONS
  • + 2
 @dhmtbr777:

Suck a dick up till Ya hiccup home slice!
  • + 1
 @Louisd2000: its not easy to bleed shimanos properly and I doubt you did it with a turkey baster. Not sure what you're talking about with the codes either Ive owned multiple sets over the years and never had a problem with arm pump I can literally lock them out with one finger and not much pressure do you have chicken arms or something?
  • + 0
 @Svinyard: oh yes I bet you stuggled with every ounce to squeeze those guide brakes lmao give me a break and go back to drama class you can literally one finger brake without much pressure at all with guides don't make up bullshit to fit your narrative ya shimano fanboy.
  • + 1
 @bohns1: Seriously just give them a go mate. I can guarantee you won’t be going back. Swallow your pride and stop making life harder than it needs to be and when shimano see’s It effecting their profits they’ll do something about it.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Get off the fentanyl while u still can.. I've tried the codes.. Not bashing them but still prefer Shimano feel,ease of maintenance/bleeds.

Haha, highly doubt shimanos profits will be affected.. The new 4 pots xt/xtr are super popular in my neck of the woods.. Still waiting for all these issues to occur on both of my shop rides 2x week..

No pride needed in my brakes.. They just work and I forget they're there.. The way it should be.
  • + 1
 let’s just agree to disagree. At the end of the day it’s only you who’s missing out. I’m 50 / 50 between guides and xts. It’s laughable how much better my guides are. Not even close and I got the XT’s expecting them and wanting them to be better.
  • + 1
 Maybe Guides..... CODE RSC’s.... best brake out there. PERIOD.
(I’m a shop manager and mechanic)
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Dude I've tried the new 4 pit xtr and they trump the codes so Ya.. Agree to disagree.. I guess Bernard Kerr, Lopes, and Kendall-Weed are all missing out..

I'm not talking the two pot 8000xt or 9000xtr.
  • + 1
 @bohns1: Ok mate you keep talking about what you’ve heard and what you’ve tried and I’m going to keep talking about stuff I actually own, ride and maintain on the regular. Nice chat buddy.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: reading comprehension at minimum I see... Said in atleast three other statements.. I'm on slx 2013s..Theybe been stellar.. I go on two seperate shop rides 2x week plus weekend rides with other groups..

I get to try alot of different gear.. Including brakes.. The new xtr are the best out of the bunch end story.. The issues u describe I have not seen in real life even with the m8000 series xt.. Yes I've read(HEARD) of the issues..

Not sure what's so hard to understand! I can ride any brake I please.. Still making decisions as to my next purchase... So far, it's still shimano.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Thanks for comin out bud!
  • + 1
 @bohns1: It is all a matter of lemons to limes. My SLX were atrocious, a set on the FR bike and a front brake on my DJ bike. Friends had the Zees and Saints, same thing, cannot rely on them for emergency braking. The 2pot XTR brakes had a good lever, yet their utter lack of power and modulation was in perfect conflict with their price point. This is all based on personal experience and is not set in stone. What it does prove to me is that I shall be more cautious next time I buy brakes. Sponsored friends were also complaining from the Guides, but then again, we all know it was no secret that something would go wrong with them.
Lemons to limes boys, lemons to limes.
  • + 1
 @FrEeZa: Exactly.. Most of my determining factors are based off what I see from the shops and or on group rides over the course of a few seasons..

To bad about your slx.. Mine are going strong.. I used the finish line mineral oil in my latest bleed and they seem more dialed in this time.

Modulation is a non issue for me as I'm so used to shimano braking at this point in the hobby.

The newest xtr 9120 feel damn sweet!
  • + 1
 @bohns1: yeah we know your opinions are based of hearsay not your own actual experiences. So if you’ve got nothing to contribute why are you still talking?
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: wow! U are truly more dumb than initially anticipated..
  • + 1
 @bohns1: yes I’m dumb for talking about products I actually own when I should have based my opinions on what other people say like you do.


I feel sorry for anyone who’s getting notifications for this nonsense guys but it’s just way too much fun making this guy look stupid.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: yes u are indeed... I have ridden them all from formula to hope and everything in between numerous times.. You don't need to own product to form an opinion.. Otherwise all reviewers would need to own everything they reviewed.. On top of that I listen to what others in my ride groups have to say themselves as many are respected riders some even sponsored.. So why wouldn't I take everything into consideration?

Haha I'm afraid it is you that looks quite the daft ass hat there home slice..

U preach guides and that is all u know..

Get a little more educated maybe even some help in special needs class.. Then come back and have a chat!

Comprendo?
  • + 1
 @bohns1: it’s comprende. “Comprendo?” literally means “I understand?” which I would answer as “questionable”
  • + 1
 @cuban-b: comprehendo! Don't be so literal.. Term of expression.. Sit back have drink relax!
  • + 1
 @bohns1: I currently own hope, shimano and sram brakes. So no it’s not all I know. Most of the time I’m on ether guide rsc or m8000 xt. You’ve still got the same brakes from 2013 which I also own but yeah keep talking about the time you tried you mates bike and all that. I ride shimano brakes more than you do hence why you’ve still got the same brakes from back in the day that weren’t particularly good even back in 2012. Haha you giving up up or you still going to carry on saying ridiculous shit?
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: give up? Now why the Fuk would I go and do something stupid like that?

Hey I'll say this.. I'd rather roll my 2013 slx brakes on an absolute shredder than ride a kona process dl or an orange for that matter bro slice!

Neither of which are particularly that good.. Haha
  • + 1
 @bohns1 so that’s a no? You won’t stop saying ridiculous shit? Understood.
  • + 1
 I think you two should challenge each other. Use @Keit method. Challenge another person on the other side of the planet for an unspecified form of a bike race and call him a coward if he doesn't accept. So basically the first one to make a call wins. The gentlemans duelling over dick measuring on the internet. The winner gets a set of brakes of his choice, the loser must pledge forgiveness and never use his Pinkbike account again.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: Haha the fun of it is the fact that u truly don't understand!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: dumb.. Just go on zwift and roadie it out
  • + 0
 @bohns1: that would be too easy, where's the element of surprise.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: yeah they can do what Wakis suggesting on strata. Find two trails of similar lengths and elevation drop. Battle it out. Or the true genetleman’s way is to hash this out with a friendly ride and a cold brew. Yknow- bury the hatchet
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: too easy! Ha it's border line heart attack time trying to hang in some of those races with the full timers.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: what you say doesn't matter, becuase you live under a bridge.
  • + 1
 @BIKE-TROLL: Under the bridge of town is where I found my love
  • + 100
 So did you spray the brakes with a hose to make them look fresh, like produce in the super market, or is that legit rain? Wink
  • + 13
 it generally rains a lot up here
  • + 33
 Rain, unfortunately. So much of it.
  • + 6
 @mtbiker2k: Surplus of rain and a deficit of towels.
  • - 9
 How much do people like comma splices?
  • + 17
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: When they're needed in the context of the writing, it is likable!
  • + 17
 They look more "Juicy" with the water.
  • + 3
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: where’s the comma splice?
  • + 1
 @irck: I'M-NOT-LOOKING-IT-UP
  • + 8
 @mikelevy: unfortunately? What about the farmers? Food? Nature! Rain is a good thing!
  • + 2
 @ceecee: Was actually curious. Couldn’t see see a sentence that met the criteria for a comma splice.
  • + 1
 @irck: You're correct, I did look it up, I never met a criterion I didn't like, higher education rules
  • + 1
 So, this is the second article on these brakes. Pinkbike is becoming the new Amazon of Mountain Biking.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: anything to the rumours that Sram are working on wireless brakes next....?
  • + 39
 Save a $100 and get the alloy levers....said every human with common sense practicality.
  • + 3
 No kidding. How many of us need carbon? Is there really that much of a market out there for $200 worth of carbon levers? At least Sram gives a fellow the option.
  • + 4
 Not arguing the price difference and whether it’s worth it or not but I definitely like the feel of carbon blades over alloy.
  • + 13
 I wish there was a compromise to spend $50 for carbon levers but still use a bushing instead of a sealed bearing.

Carbon levers sound silly but I love how much warmer my fingers are on a cold or wet ride vs when they're in steady contact with a heat sink...
  • + 7
 @elsb0048: Cost savings at the expense of the consumer? The current Guide RSC has the pivot on bearings, but now only the extra stupidly expensive ultimate version has them ? meh ..
  • + 1
 @elsb0048: Yeah I’m not spending that much just to get a bearing in the lever that I already have on my current RSC model. It needs a bearing on that model or I’m trying something else.
  • + 1
 @elsb0048: You can buy just the levers (they sell them as replacement parts) and upgrade which solves that, but I love having the levers ride in a bearing and that can't be upgraded down the line. Good thing I have Code RSCs I guess
  • + 1
 @mtb-sf: I have guide ultimates so I'm happy. If I were to upgrade I'd want codes or saints w/ carbon levers which I didn't think was an option (could be wrong). But there's probably some chance that code and guide levers are interchangeable.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: is there a big benefit to the lever riding on bearings? I don't feel like I've noticed much compared to bushed options on previous brakes but I suppose I could be convinced. Seems like the friction compared to leverage there is pretty minimal and it has such low 'rpm' that a bearing just doesn't seem warranted for that application other than for bling.
  • + 1
 @elsb0048: Honestly no it just makes it much feel nicer and it’s just one of those things you don’t want to loose now you’ve got used to it. Generally a way nicer experience but when your going fast your not going to notice.
  • + 1
 @Wayners: but carbon feels so nice on the fingers. ;P
  • + 1
 @elsb0048: They make rubber grips for brake levers if that's something you want to pursue
  • + 1
 @Deoratwo: Thanks for the recommendation maybe on the next set of brakes. I do worry that it would make the lever feel sloppy since the rubber might squish and slide on the alu. The bike snob in me may require the fit and finish of a bare carbon lever :-P. Clearly need to be going to dentist school!
  • + 1
 @elsb0048: id take bearings over bushings any day I like a tight lever feel not one that flops while riding. Probably one of my biggest pet peeves about brakes they should all use bearings.
  • + 1
 @mhoshal: fair enough. It feels like with appropriate tolerances and bushing design you could have a similarly tight feel. But maybe bushings of that quality are not available of the shelf to keep this price point.
  • + 1
 Dentists love carbon
  • + 1
 @Savagm: so do mechanics!
  • + 28
 Can we get another test in the heat of summer so they can overheat and stop working??????
  • + 8
 This issue nearly killed my girlfriend. And they wouldn't warranty both brakes at one time. So we had to wait for a second accident before they would warranty the other. And it happened just a ride after we got the first brake back. One accident, one near accident, and about 4 weeks warranty time. Not so stoked. Zero regard to rider safety.
  • + 6
 @privateer-wbc: Same experience for me. Pretty horrifying few weeks between brake failures. Couldn't trust the bike. Wreckless policy.
  • + 5
 @OriginalDonk: there should have been a recall on that issue.

And on the same bike (Trek Superfly) was a RockShox fork. Funny enough (or not funny at all) the air spring blew on the thing the same day of the first brake failure. All within a few minutes. The bike was a literal death trap!

No one else on the ride had imploding brakes or exploding forks due to hot weather.
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: Same with my Shimano SLX brakes, had a number of bad rides and just sold them as soon as I came home. They were gone in 1 day and I am one happy camper, riding the Formula train.
  • + 1
 @OriginalDonk: Wreckless is a good thing on a bike. Wink
  • + 3
 @FrEeZa: what was wrong with them.

I have been riding hope brakes since early-mid 2000's and never a hitch.
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: Very inconsistent lever feel. First they grab at the grips, the next pump will have them grab on top, the following will stay like that. If I then do not brake for a while, they will again grab at the grips, but just barely. Stopping power was there, no bout adoubt that, but having had too many near hits with trees just got me angry and I sold them, then got Formula T1 up front and an RX Ltd in the back. Friends of mine had similar Zees and Saints and I can't justify such poorly made brakes. Mind you, I bled my brakes before every second ride around the end, did not help at all. It's really hard to find good brakes for a decent price.
  • + 3
 @FrEeZa: I used XT m8000's for a season and they were much the same, very inconsistent lever feel.

I got pretty frustrated with it, and ended up devising my own bleed kit - syringe and hose crimped on at the bottom bleed nipple, and avid bleed kit syringe at the top. I bled them like a SRAM brake - creating a vacuume at the bottom, then top, off gassing as best I could and then proceeding with the bleed, i bled bottom to top, top to bottom, bottom to top - probably about 10-12 rimes, to get air to stop appearing totally.

After that, they seem to work pretty well. They still act up in the cold, but I think that's a little more normal. They are on my girlfriends bike now because I know they won't try to kill her like the SRAMs.
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: I actualli did a similar thing and it still did not really fix the issues. I would go back to the old XTs but they are impossible to find!
  • + 0
 @privateer-wbc: How in the world did that happen? I haven't heard of catastrophic brake failure from overheating since the early 2000s. And with a light rider? (which i assume your girlfriend to be)

Usually there are plenty of warning signs, like increased fading, burning smell, warped discs, funky lever feel, etc.
  • + 1
 @Ttimer: it wasn't due to overheating brakes in the sense you would be thinking. It wasn't even at the caliper! It was at the lever, and due to high ambient temperature. As far as I know, SRAM was using bad seals that would swell and stop working on a hot day. It was an issue with a lot of brakes for a period of time as I understand it.

The exploding Reba air spring was also not uncommon around the same time. Not sure if it was due to heat or what, but the spring would blow up, and pressure the lowers, and then blow the wiper seal out of the lower leg.

Super reliable stuff.

And if that all wasn't bad enough, I've also warranty 3 Pike's for creating CSU's in the last 2-3 years.

AND the Pike that came on her latest bike (Kona Hei Hei Trail) was leaking oil from the top of the charger damper right out of the box. 2 rides and it went out for warranty.

Shit luck, or shit product....you tell me!?
  • + 2
 @privateer-wbc: The lever thing sounds bad. Not something that should ever happen on critical parts like brakes.

FWIW my experience with Sram stuff has been good. Juicy 7 was good for many years with the occasional bleed, Elixir somethingorother was reliable with hardly any bleeding, current Guide is working fine so far, and various (Coil) forks were also fine. Our track records balance out pretty well. The truth of Sram reliability probably lies somewhere in between.
  • + 2
 @Ttimer: I have had some good product. Like you, Juicy 7 worked well, aside from the dying turkey sounds. G1 Pike 454 (545?), Boxxer WC, Boxxer U-Turn....I have had a lot of good product. Also battled with the top end Elixr (7?) Carbon brakes that leaked out of every orifice and seal pretty much from new. And a set of cheaper Elixr brakes that worked a treat.

And a couple Monarch shocks that were completely average and worked fine.

Mixed bag. But way more failures that I'd like to see!
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: I have to say, the best brakes I have had the pleasure to ride were the Juicy 5 and Juicy 7. Power and modulation was perfect, they never faded on me, as I am very light, never had oil or lever problems. Shimano XT DH 203mm rotor up front and I was golden!
  • + 2
 @FrEeZa: my Juicy 7's were pretty issue free to.
  • + 1
 @privateer-wbc: For m8000s all I do is put on the bleed cup, screw out the reach adjust screw and adjust the levers out, then pump the levers till any air bubbles are gone then gravity bleed from the calipers. Trying to push fluid into the brakes always introduced air into the system for me.
  • + 1
 @clink83: Used the bleed cup before every ride at the end. Levers were still horrible. I guess some people just get lemons while others get the good stuff. In terms of brakes, there is hardly a right answer, I guess Hope are good, then again, you have to pay a hefty price. Maybe Codes? I am somehow most pleased from Formula, both their hubs and brakes. 12 year old E-Hub, still spinning like a champ and the RC Tune gave up the gost after 4 great years. P.S. It was my fault.
  • + 3
 @FrEeZa: Hope are great. You pay a little more up front, but they will outlast several bikes. Unlike SRAM/Shimano, they aren't just disposable parts. Hope will have seal kits and spare parts for their current line of brakes out there and easily available for the next decade or more, and spare parts from hope are inexpensive in general. You can keep them running almost indefinitely without issues.
  • + 23
 Sorry, but the Guide R brakes was the worst brake I have ever tried. There is a reason they are the OEM of choice for the cheapest models in lineup (e.g. Commencal specs they top-level build with Shimano XTs and the lowest level with Guides). Every 2-piston shimano brake is better than this crap. The most funny thing is that initially they had so good reviews (also on PB) and after few years nobody says they are ok, even this review states they are "good choice for anyone who doesn't need Code-like power" which means they are simply weak brakes.
  • + 23
 I was hoping this would be a review of the new AXS wireless brakes.
Still using hoses? weak.
  • + 101
 Those are wireless hoses.
  • + 2
 @GriefTheBro: underrated comment......
  • + 3
 Wirless brakes... they won’t stop you from getting a Darwin Award
  • + 2
 The wireless brakes will still use dot fluid.
  • + 1
 @GriefTheBro: nice. nice. Smile
  • + 15
 I love how they left some material on the caliper for stiffness. In a year or two they will refine this brake by removing some material from the caliper and magically it will not impact the stiffness of the caliper at all thanks to some new bs technology they made up on the spot.
  • + 6
 When, in the history of hydraulic brakes, has anyone, ever, felt that their caliper wasn’t stiff enough?
  • + 14
 I wish they went with a different colour...they remind me too much of Avid Elixirs
  • + 6
 Yeah a weird blue color in a black cockpit isn't ideal.
  • + 1
 @Svinyard: Yes. Fugly.
  • + 13
 I run saints on my 130mm trail bike, there isn't such a thing as having too much power.
  • + 1
 Not as long as they can be modulated (and See/Saint modulation is fine btw, actually like them better than the 2-piston brakes).
  • + 2
 @Mac1987: Damn rights they can.. Love the way saints feel.. Probably going to get the new 4 piston xt eventually but my slx still work fantastic 6 years in.
  • + 9
 While I think the existing Guides are fine, you do need to run 200mm rotors on them to work well (I had too much arm pump/fatigue on 180mm). I think SRAM would be better to just drop the Guides all-together. The Codes do everything they do now and way more. They are INSANELY nice. Early modulation is great at slow speeds in tech and the power ramps up super nice. If they just continued to make Codes and improved on them while doing the same for their Level series, I think it'd be ideal. Fwiw I've seen people speak to the fact that the higher end Level series is about the same performance or a touch better at times than the Guides (Level had better deceleration results). Enduro brake test results showed much of that as well. Too much product overlap.
  • + 3
 Now that we have the updated Codes that seem to be holding up and working very well, I agree that the mid range brake seems odd. Bronsons come with Codes now (with 200mm rotor). Saving weight on brakes is the dumbest thing to focus on. If any area of the bike needs more reliability, durability, and performance, its always been the brakes. Take a shit in the morning and enjoy more powerful/consistent braking. Easy choice.
  • + 10
 I have Guide Ults. Since the lever assembly is essentially the same as the G2, as is the hose/banjo, if I want to upgrade my Ults, I can just get the fancy new calipers. Thanks for allowing interchangeability, SRAM.
  • + 8
 Not even going to read this review.. you bastards suckered me into the guide RSC’s. I had the original and replacement seize on me.. I used to buy thier drive train until recently trying the Shimano 12 sp.. holy shit is it bad ass!! The shifting under load is phenomenal!!!
  • + 8
 The price levels have gone out of control thanks to sram and they use small updates as their reasoning for it. So glad I went with Hayes dominions. I'll never buy a scam, I mean sram, product again.
  • + 4
 You can get Formula Cura for 200€ (Front and rear brakes and rotors) or the Cura 4 for 270€....hmmm difficult choice.

Ive ridden the Guides on a Stumpjumper- getting to stop was literally a heavy finger workout...
  • + 2
 Does anyone even buy Sram brakes aftermarket? I think 90+% of all Sram brakes come on complete bikes where they are no more expensive than any other non-boutique brake.

Best bang for the buck in the aftermarket at the moment seems to be the Magura Trail Sport. Formula are fairly priced too.
  • + 1
 @NotNamed: the 2 pots are phenom.
  • + 7
 " things are basically the same up top."
Sticky levers incoming then. Consistency is key SRAM!
  • + 4
 Yeah I wish they had commented about that saying that this issue has been resolved. (Or did they? Maybe I missed it). It gets really hot in BC's interior, and when you get to around 30 degrees C outside, they lock up and don't release. I had that problem with the Guide RSCs and then again on the pair that were replaced on warranty. Another replacement set went on the bike that I sold and I'm hoping that solved it. I switched to Shimano when I sent them away and not going back.
  • + 7
 There is a reason they send out their new brakes for review in the cooler months.
  • + 7
 If you want the best brakes buy Hope. If you want the best bang for your buck buy Zee.
  • + 3
 I just got back from Windrock. I have the 4 pot XT's and they worked great! The one thing I noticed was a lot of other riders with skidding through steep sections and around corners. Perhaps its the way I brake, but I was able to modulate my brakes in all situations so that I wouldn't skid ... but they still got me down from speed if I needed it. I have a mix of those brakes and Saints on my bikes, I love the lever feel, look, and how they modulate (including for doing manuals on small and big wheeled bikes). Maybe SRAM stuff is up to snuff, but I'll stick with Shimano.
  • + 3
 Thats not the original caliper. Its the revised caliper with the wider pad opening, which was advertised as an improvement at the time. The original caliper was the same as the Avid Trail 4 pot, looked more like the G2 and had a smaller opening similar to the G2. They back stepped.
  • + 5
 So much YES!
First generation Guide:
smaller opening, phenolic resin pistons
2nd generation Guide:
wider opening, alloy pistons, heat shield
G2:
smaller opening, phenolic resin piston, no heat shield.

But at least they introduced a more expensive model, and save 2 bearings for every rsc model

wtf???
  • + 7
 They sure look Juicy, but I'm an Avid fan of SRAM brakes.
  • + 7
 save yourself the headaches associated with SRAM brakes and just get XTs
  • + 4
 Does anyone actually BUY SRAM brakes? Like new in a box, not off some dude on craigslist?
They pretty much just show up oem on the bike you bought right?
  • + 3
 Sram is what comes on your stock bike. Sram is what you don't buy if you want an upgrade.
  • + 2
 @PB: Can you say “these are not as good as” or “they are better than” without worry of losing your jobs? For example in comparison with the new Hayes Dominion, how would you rate the G2?

Could you do a long term group test so the best/worst are sorted out and then we can choose our next buy based on your test results and conclusions. Or maybe that is too much European magazine style?
  • + 2
 I'm just glad Mike is still alive! To not do a recall on something that could kill shows how much they care about their customers. I had to replace the stupid levers on two bikes, and pay for it because the shop was not a SRAM dealer. I will never use them again.
  • + 0
 Why disnt you take it to a Sram dealer. Srams replacement/warranty policy ia great as you can do it anywhere in the world regardless of where you bought your bike.
  • + 5
 Does the new caliper provide easier access to the lower mounting bolt, or are they still a PITA to get centred?
  • + 6
 Great question. The shape of the caliper still makes getting at the lower mounting slot tricky if you don't have a long hex key. My folding set doesn't work but the standalone 5mm does.
  • + 6
 I hate when my calipers aren’t stiff enough. Thank you SRAM.
  • + 4
 FFS, power organic pads?
Trust sram to take a purely functional and descriptive naming convention and inject extra bullshit.
  • + 2
 I had XTs. They were very strong, without requiring a lot of squeeze, but the bite point would sometimes jump inwards between brake lever pulls. I learned to live with it, they were awesome brakes nonetheless. Now I have Code RSCs, they are almost as strong, but make it easier to control braking power in the wet. This is just my own experience, of course. Feel free to get super upset with me.
  • + 3
 By "improved lever feel", do you mean pistons that don't get stuck and a master cylinder that doesn't lock up and require a warranty claim right out of the box? Cuz I guess that might be a good place to start.
  • + 4
 Nice try Sram, I'll stick with shimanos... you know ... cause they work... or v's.. cantilever, really anything other than Sram will do....
  • + 2
 “good choice for anyone who doesn't need Code-like power“
Never understood why the Guides exists, why not just buy Codes, why not have all the power possible, If you want to save weight and don’t need power, buy a 2piston brake, if you need the power, buy the powerful 4piston ones, brakes are not an area you can save much weight so why bother, power is much more important.
  • + 0
 Agreed, thats why i run custom 500mm rotors for skidz #POWER
  • + 4
 Had sticky pistons with both guides and codes. Lubed the pistons, bled them, same issues. Might be time to switch to saint or zees
  • + 2
 Or try Formula Cura 4- best brakes Ive had (and still use)- sadly my Shimanos Saint and SLXs were sweating at the levers. (XT not)
  • + 3
 Hayes Dominions, the power and feel blew my mind
  • + 1
 @mullen119:
How long are you riding them? I bought a pair 4 weeks ago, but had to warranty them, because the calipers f/r looked completley different. Also my adapters didn't fit and there seems to be a shortage of peacemakers (wich are way overpriced if you ask me...)
But still, i hope they will be great. Once i finally have them.
  • + 1
 @whoopsy: the finish on them was different? Most adapters will work, but there are a few that are too shallow and hit the caliper. I used a formula adapter. My only complaint is they really need to be paired with D series rotors which are thicker than other brands (and ridiculously priced). You can get around it, but it's kinda annoying. It's worth it one you hit the trail though. Power and modulation is the best I have used.
  • + 1
 Yes, the front looked brighter and had a smoother surface, while the caliper on the rear looked blasted/pitted and was darker. At the price of those brakes I couldn't overlook that flaw. Especially since those brakes aren't Lookers to begin with :-)
I'm running the new monolithic Formula Rotors, they come in 1,95 mm thickness, same as Hayes and they cost about half as much.
  • + 1
 @whoopsy: good to know on the rotors. I'm going to build a second wheel set and will probably go that route. I'm assuming the color issue is a difference of something that changed between production runs, I thought I read something about the 2nd production run having a nicer finish Hopefully not too many people get sets that don't match.
  • + 5
 Bonus - comes with free turkey call.
  • + 3
 Getting the sense from the review that there isn't a big reason to upgrade from Guide RSC for those of us already riding them... @mikelevy: Would you say that's accurate?
  • + 4
 For sure. The Guides work well and there's no reason to change unless it's time for a new set of brakes.
  • + 4
 @mikelevy : How much of the extra power (the 7%) is from the new organic pads? I'm guessing adding those pads to my Guide Ultimates will see a power increase to those brakes too
  • + 1
 The contact dial area looks different. Do they still hang up at the extreme ends of adjustment? I love the contact adjustment, but it does like to stick when it's all the way in or out.

Newer seals in the caliper though, better tolerances...total new parts boner over here.
  • + 3
 Nope, but I didn't find that with the Guides I've used, either. I tend to run the contact point as far out as possible.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: Maybe it's just the codes. All it takes is some needle nose pliers and a rag to get it loose, it happened maybe twice? In any case I've really liked all my Sram brakes since the guides came out.
  • + 2
 I’ve found that pumping that brake loosens it when you’ve wound it in all the way.
  • + 5
 Steel heatsinks LoL ROTFLMFAO LoL
  • + 3
 Hmm a sram product, How many gimmicks? how many built in flaws on the lower models to push you in to spending $$ on a top end one with sh*t you dont need.
  • + 3
 Seriously levy, those grips are super ugly lol. I know, I know you love them...but man, its like putting the oldman leather wrap around a Ferrari's steering wheel.
  • + 4
 How does this brakes power and modulation compare to the Hayes Dominion A4?
  • + 3
 Someone needs to answer this question.
  • + 3
 @thenotoriousmic: well if you want something reliable. Don't get Sram.
  • + 3
 wtf do I need to do to get a non-AXS priced oil slick cassette. take my fkin monies.
  • + 1
 All the fookin Monies
  • + 2
 Anyone have their guide lever pistons overheat and not retract? That was fun experience having to ice down my brake levers to get them to work...
  • + 4
 Sram calling anything ultimate is a joke.
  • + 4
 For that price I'll go with Hope brakes for the win.
  • + 2
 Avid brakes pain in the butt to work on and repair, finicky always need adjustment loud and bleeding them is another whole different ball game and did I mention fading?
  • + 4
 Not buying them. My Guide RSCs and RS were such garbage. No thanks.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy hello good sir, In all of your years have you truly never had an issue with a guide brake? I have no issues with guides however I find that statement truly unbelievable
  • + 2
 If only SRAM had made Guides with decent power. My 2013 Slx brakes are better than 2018 Guides. I should not need to buy new brakes on a year old bike to match
  • + 5
 I dont trust you, sram.
  • + 3
 If they landed on the moon, you'd think SRAM could make decent brakes. I don't think they landed on the moon.
  • + 2
 280$ per wheel, got a complete set of Cura for less : best brake i have ever had
  • + 1
 @mikelevy any input on how these compare (in terms of power/modulation) to the TRP quadiems? Both seem to be focused on modulation first and power second.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy important question...when installing the caliper, did the allen key take some of the finish off the caliper by the lower/rear bolt?
  • + 3
 Steel heat sink? There are better materials out there to shed heat...
  • + 3
 LEEROY JENKINS AND HAYES DOMINIONS
  • + 2
 I was going to say exactly this, for really no reason at all. Hayes fanboi, never even tried either of them. The alignment screws on the Hayes were a legitimate step forward, you gotta hand it to them.
  • + 1
 r/explainlikeimfive: how does slightly stiffening the caliper increase braking power?
  • + 1
 It takes quite a bit of force to flex the caliper, so by stiffening it, the force goes into the pistons instead of flexing.
  • + 1
 At least none of you obviously had to work on Promax Decipher brakes. Literally make both Shimano & Sram look amazing.
  • + 1
 They still need dump washers to properly setup hundred bucks worth calipers? 21st century?
  • + 1
 If you've got 160mm post mounts using an adaptor for 180mm you do need conical washers to align the caliper to the bolt axis. Every brake does this!
  • + 1
 @Demoguy: I really doubt it's needed for every brake. I had several forks with 160mm PM interface and always a Shimano caliper with postmount and I never needed any washers. Any.
  • + 1
 @fluider: And what size was your disc rotor?
  • + 1
 @Demoguy: All sizes. 160 and 180mm on Trek 8500 XC hardtail. Now 200mm on Lyrik 2009.
  • + 1
 @fluider: So you would've had conical washers on the 180mm as the postmount adaptor is tapered (bigger on one end) which makes the caliper not parallel with the 160mm post mount,
  • + 1
 @Demoguy: I had an adaptor like this one, cdn.arena.pl/59ccafc0301e8497bd1702825ecef3d3-product_lightbox.jpg

I really can't remember using dumb washers. So either I used some wise adaptor for that 180mm rotor, or I had my first fork with IS interface.
  • + 1
 Good looking brake! I’ve had mine for 3 years and absolutely love them tup
  • + 2
 Waiting for electric version...
  • + 1
 I had a pair of 2012 saint brakes that have outperformed every sram brake I’ve tried since
  • + 2
 The nightmare, 2008 Avids is happening again!
  • - 1
 really? Sram needs to fix its rotors before all these new brake options coming out. They don't dissipate heat at all! They have nothing on the Ice Techs. Just one fat kid trying to keep his speed in check.
  • + 2
 I run ice tech rotors with sram brakes. Actually can’t tell the difference between rotors.
  • + 1
 @thenotoriousmic: id have to totally disagree. less its the actually brake that isn't dissipating any heat. Sram get so hot so fast and takes forever to cool down.
  • + 0
 been happy with several sets of guides. do not like shimano brake feel. they both have problems. it typically depends on who gets crappy OEM deals
  • + 2
 I have been waiting for a 'stiffer' brakes for years. Take my wallet.
  • + 1
 Is ‘power organic’ just marketing speak for semi metallic or are they actually something new?
  • + 1
 more to the point, how are those foamies in the rain?
  • + 1
 so basically a slightly lighter code
  • + 1
 Waiting to hear more about that fork!!!
  • + 1
 But does the reach adjust actually do anything?
  • + 1
 What snazzy chain is that?
  • + 1
 Still using my margura mt5 ????
  • + 2
 Code like power ? hmm
  • + 1
 They couldn't of picked an uglier color.
  • + 1
 I really don’t see the need
  • + 4
 The Codes modulate so well, why have these. If you are an XC weight weenie, you get the Levels. SRAM, just offer the Codes, reduce production costs with one beefy brake.
  • + 1
 Nice to see a quantitative improvement for once. Fresh color to boot.
  • + 1
 You probably meant 'quantifiable'..
  • + 1
 @thesharkman: I suppose I did. Thanks sharkman for pointing that out and teaching me something today. Glad you knew what I meant.
  • + 0
 Still uses DOT fluid. No thanks.
  • - 3
 So basically you're saying no thanks to the fluid that works best for brakes? Yeah, seems logical.
  • + 1
 Brakes that use brake fluid... weird!!
  • + 3
 Hahaha trolled. DOT fluid is terrible though.
  • + 1
 Smam!
  • + 1
 Kooky
  • + 0
 Sram going after hayes dominion brakes for most boring paint job
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