They're best known for their brakes, but in 2019 TRP stepped into the drivetrain world with the debut of the DH7 shifter
and derailleur, components that were first seen being tested by Aaron Gwin on the World Cup downhill circuit. The new TR12 components are the follow-up act, a shifter and derailleur that are designed to work with 12-speed cassettes and chains from other manufacturers.
The TR12 derailleur has all of the features found on the DH7, including an adjustable clutch and the Hall Lock, which locks the B-knuckle to the derailleur hanger. It also has a carbon fiber outer cage and upper link in order to lose a few more grams.
TRP TR12 Details
• 12-speed shifter and derailleur
• Carbon cage and upper link on derailleur
• Adjustable clutch
• Adjustable Hall Lock
• Colors: black, gold, silver
• Weight: 291 grams (derailleur), 110 grams (shifter)
• MSRP: $329.99 / set, shifter: $109.99, derailleur: $229.99 USD
The actual weight of the derailleur is 291 grams, and the shifter weighs 110 grams. Retail price for the shifter and derailleur together is $329.99 Shifter
The TR12 shifter is pretty much the same as the DH7 except that, surprise, surprise, it has 11-clicks instead of 6. One push of the larger paddle will shift through up to four gears, with a distinct 'click' for each, while the smaller lever is used to move the derailleur and chain down the cassette one cog at a time. The levers have raised diagonal lines on them for extra grip, and the position of the larger paddle can be adjusted by 20-degrees in either direction to make sure it sits in exactly the right spot.
The Hall Lock feature locks the B-knuckle in place, preventing the derailleur from rotating clockwise and hitting the frame.Derailleur
The overall design and function of the TR12 derailleur isn't radically different from the norm, but there are a few features and details that set it apart. The most visible is the Hall Lock, the lever that sits just behind the derailleur mounting bolt. When the lever is closed it locks the B-knuckle in place, preventing the derailleur from rotating clockwise and contacting the back of the frame's dropouts. A 2mm set screw allows the amount of resistance the Hall Lock provides to be adjusted, or it could be turned off completely if a rider decided not to take advantage of that feature.
Along with the Hall Lock, the TR12 has a ratcheting clutch mechanism that's turned on or off via a sliding switch. The amount of resistance if provides is adjustable via a pair of 2mm screws that are partially hidden by the upper pulley wheel. Adjusting the clutch isn't the easiest task, especially with the rear wheel on – it's easier to do with the wheel off and the bike in a stand rather than on the side of a trail. It's also worth noting that a small turn of each screw can make a big difference – it's best to start with 1/8th of a turn if more clutch resistance is needed.
TRP also designed in a couple of handy set-up helpers. A white line on the backside of the outer cage makes it easy to set the proper B-tension – it should line up with the largest cassette cog once the tension is correct. On the other side of the cage there's a small chain icon that helps check for the right chain length. That icon should line up with the one printed on the derailleurs knuckle when the chain is sitting on the smallest cassette cog. Installation
Installation didn't present any problems, and the little chain length and B-tension indicators did help make the process even easier. The rubber cable port cover on the shifter is a little fiddly, but it's not exactly something that you'll be removing and re-installing all that often. The bulk of my testing took place with the TR12 components paired with a SRAM X01 cassette and chain. Since they don't make their own cassettes or chains, TRP has a list of recommended match-ups, and SRAM is at the top, followed by Shimano, SunRace, and e*thirteen.
I did end up increasing the clutch tension slightly after my first ride in order to reduce the amount of chain slap. The stock setting was a little too light for my liking; what I settled on was closer to the amount of tension typically found on a Shimano derailleur. Performance
The ergonomics of the shifter worked relatively well for me once I'd adjusted the thumb lever position by a few degrees. Each shift creates a very positive, audible click – there's no vagueness here. However, the amount of effort it takes to actually make those shifts, especially moving the chain up the cassette, is more than I would have liked. It takes a decent amount of force to push that thumb lever, and it's not nearly as effortless as what you'll find with high-end SRAM or Shimano shifters.
I replaced the cable and housing to ensure that that wasn't the issue – it wasn't – and I also turned the clutch off to see if that was the cause. It is easier to shift with the clutch off, but even then, there was more resistance than I expected. The shifts themselves were fine – the chain moved the correct amount each time, and there wasn't any skipping or jumping around on the cassette.
The clutch does its job – I didn't have any dropped chains, and I wasn't running a chain guide of any sort, although it was hard to find the sweet spot between too much and two little resistance. The resistance that it applies is also a little less consistent than SRAM's or Shimano's clutch mechanisms – TRP's is a little more jerky feeling as the cage is pulled forward.
It's too early to comment on really long term durability, but over the course of the last two months the TR12 components have been subjected to plenty of wet, muddy rides, and so far all of the bearings and pivots are still operating smoothly.
Handy set up features+
Derailleur is very adjustable and serviceable+
Adjustable thumb lever position
Takes more effort to push thumb paddle compared to Shimano or SRAM-
Can be hard to find sweet spot between too much and not enough clutch resistance-
Price is on the high side
|I'd be more likely to cut TRP a little slack on the new TR12 components if the price was more wallet-friendly. As it is, that $330 price is a tough sell, especially since you can get the new Shimano Deore shifter and derailleur for $87 with only a 30 gram weight penalty and better shifting performance. Or a SRAM GX derailleur and shifter for $150 with no weight penalty at all. The TR12's list of adjustments, and the fact that it's easily serviceable is impressive, but unfortunately, in this case the price vs. performance ratio simply doesn't work out in TRP's favor. |
— Mike Kazimer
Mine is pretty much perfect and 100% reliable so far - plus the whole group costs less than the TRP derailleur here tested
That's because the Pinkbike comment opinion bubble dosen't represend the real world.
In reality the difference in performance of highend Sram and Shimano stuff is tiny.
Some prefer the light click, and crisp shifting of Sram and some the bit smoother Shimano feeling. Both work really well.
I"m guessing a large reason is because SRAM does a better job at grabbing OE business by bundling drivetrain, suspension, and peripherals together(forcibly with some of it).
Sram has definitely dropped their quality in recent years, the old x9 9 and 10 speed was actually quite nice. I had to swap an x9 10 speed mech a few years ago for a gx because that was all the bike shop had. Was surprised at how much plastic and bits of pressed steel had replaced nice chunks of alu. Seems they are happy drop quality but keep prices up there and tell you it is the best ever in the marketing
It's shagged. The clutch doesn't work properly and the cage bends like toffee.
I am going to swap it for an XT unit. Even though the clutch is said to be identical, I am hoping there are more differences in quality of materials throughout the part. It's a shame, because I love that blue gunmetal hue of the 7100.
It is not at all even close to the performance
of any road groupset I have been on in 20 years, let alone Record/Super Record.
Why is it mechanics do not use that red thinger to set the B screw? Works so much better if you do (I guess the red thing is not cool).
Oh, and most shop guys near me are on SRAM, but, for hipster reasons.
XX1 is far superior in feel...still, not even close to Record.
Yeah and the earth is flat, space is liquid, the universe is electric and every non Shimano metal is cheese.
And of course everything is planned by the reptiluminati alien overlords, which Sram is a part of. I have heard it all.
Meanwhile some people just riding their bikes and have a blast on whatever parts they have and without ever making a comment here.
Shimano makes good stuff, no complaints at all.
The new full XT12 set-up tries to emulate the XTR but, in the end it feels kind of mushy; the gears are snapped like with the XTR but it is not as precise; GX is more controlled and more precise, even though that snappier feeling does not exists; and, for the record, full xx1 never skipped a beat..never!, it requires a different approach and I don't think I'd put one on an enduro bike...in fact, I would not put any top of the line drivetrain on an enduro bike, as it is pointless - race bikes need only geometry, high end suspenssion, brakes and tires, nothing more - .
As for the XTR12, I tested one and it was a reminder of my XTR11 but with 12 gears instead of 11..bam-bam though gears, no holding back and no remorse for the drivetrain; the XT12 was a letdown though.
My new bike came with 12 speed SX - and it's hot flaming garbage. The shifting is imprecise and halting, I'm constantly adjusting stuff. I initially figured I'd wait until the cassette was worn to switch driver bodies to Microspline and go 12sp Deore - but I'm sorely tempted not to wait that long because it just annoys the hell out of me every time I ride it.
I have had a Box 9 speed on my adventure tandem for about a month. I have the Box 1 shifter, the Box 2 derailleur and the Box 2 cassette. The shifting effort is higher than the GX Eagle it replaced, but the SRAM would miss gears a lot. The Box 9 speed has never missed a shift. Important on a trail with 450 lbs of people and stuff on a bike.
Box calls their Prime 1 unibody, but it doesn't look like one in their pictures. It looks like it is two pieces. Still, 300 grams saved is a lot for a bike that is supposed to pack into two suit cases and fly.
2.stupid people who buy sram
Adjusting the limit screws could possibly deal with the 11 clicks.
As I run 650b I do not need a great big gear bigger then a 42 for what I ride. I would be curious how much rotating mass would be removed getting rid of that 51 tooth.
If anyone has a knackered xtr cassette I would purchase it just to dissect it for the cause.
I don't know what to do now. I would give the 9 is fine a go to be honest. It's a bit pricey though.
Getting these 12 speed drivetrains to run smoothly after a good dose of abuse is pretty damn finnicky.
1. Yes it's expensive, but it's not surprising... A smaller company comes out with a new "proto" derailleur, with features/setup-ta-bility, we haven't seen before. It's like when the gto came out back in the day. Yes it was a car, but a car the pushed the envelope of what a production sedan could do. Same story here, period.
2. 95% of actual mtbers agree, anything but the most top end from Sram is junk, except they're brakes and suspension, which are pretty much the industry standard, when it comes to price vs quality vs performance.
3. For a change, 75% of what Waki said is actually true... the other 25%, debateable, but not troll level shirt.
Come on Waki, what happened to you!?… Your are resident troll 'guru, you've let us all down.
I hope I didn't break you, for taking you on with logic, and common sense.
Please don't let that be the case! I don't feel it's time for me to take the mantle... Ooooo' That should get your blood boiling. YOU. ARE. REPLACEABLE.
Now if I could look on CRC or Bike Inn, and see the whole setup for £200, I would probably do it. Again it's a case of - it's interesting, but too expensive to be interesting enough to take a punt, knowing that on balance of probablitilty it's going to be worse than an XT 12 speed setup.
As I see it, another example of the 2C tyre for 3C money, because it's different.
I'll tell you a company that gets it. Hope. They make quite high end kit in the UK that works really well, and they sell it for not totally ridiculous prices. Other small players should take note.
However, looking at the 12 speed groupsets, I would never pay even street prices for SRAM, since the lowest acceptable level for me is GX, which is worse than SLX and as expensive as XT.
I’ve never had much luck with SLX / Zee mechs I used to go through so many and everyone I know who hasn’t moved over to sram are still having the same issues I had back then.
Dude way too many drivetrains there. Easy fix. Throw all in trash. Buy Deore 12 speed, the Pinkbike gods will rejoice.
Waki as much as you are on here. I did not know you were a dentist. XTR shifter? You’re crazy.
The obvious and only choice is Deore on every aspect of the bike. I hope they make Deore suspension.
My short review:
Both are great. Anyone who thinks that one is magically way better than the other is delusional. Just buy whichever set up you like better and enjoy.
I like the shifter better on the Sram, but the Shimano feels slightly smoother. But the "under power" shifting is no better or worse on either. Maybe I haven't found an instance where I could really test it, but I didn't find the Shimano to shift much better, if at all, than the Sram. The double click is nice, but the better ergonomics on Sram cancels it out.
They both felt completely equal in performance. Some aspects being slightly better on one vs the other. End of the day, I am keeping the groups I already have, Sram and Shimano, they both work great. I WOULD say that if the cassette life sucks on the Shimano, I might change my mind. But I have an XTR hub and I don't want to swap hubs just so I can put a different cassette on, so the Shimano cassette would have to REALLY suck, and I doubt that will be the case.
I am very satisfied with Shimano and Sram 1x12.
Yeah a years not a long time I’ve got two alloy x sync chainrings that are over three years old that still haven’t worn through the coating and have never dropped a chain. Typical SLX, you have to buy three when you could just spend that little bit extra and get something that will last three times as long.
Even with 28 up front.
That's what i'm planning on doing, not for better quality/shifting, but for weight loss. I've already upgraded the pullies to xt's, that made a big-tiny difference. Better quality, lighter, and smoother operation over deore. Heck, if your bending cages all the time, then just pick up a couple replacement set's off ebay. Just looked, brand new ones from reputable, American bikes shops, to be had for under $30 bucks a set (plus S&H). That's the next upgrade going into my drivetrain... I basically have the simple reliability/toughness of the deore, and the weight savings/tech of the xt, best of both world's. If your constantly breaking/bending derailleurs, then it's not the kits fault... It's you abusing the sh** out of the thing, I bet it's like everything you own. Flease a brand new $60,000 truck/car, drive like no tomorrow, just when the warrantee expires, you dump the thing, and start the vicus cycle all over again. Just like 80% of the people out there, broker then a dog's hind leg. If you spending 5 to 10 thousand dollars on a bike, then you do the best job you can to take care of it, like your home. If a guy goes through windows/doors as fast as you are, then there's something wrong with the homeowner, not the home.
And I don't know where your getting your downshifting problems from, sounds like not correctly shifting/pedalling, or not maintaining/setting it up. There is a little learning curve with shimano, I found that out pretty. But once you get it, it's a breeze to work the drivetrain, very intuitive to use. I grant you, shifting needs a bit of force to work it, but I really prefer that anyway, feels nice and solid, with secure shift/clicks. It's a beefy, no-nonsense drivetrain, for us working men. I can't afford, or want to spend 150 bucks a pop for derailleurs, rather go with cheap, well made components, that ya, may not be as good as your dentist XO's, but there plenty awesome enough enough to get the job done. And save a pile of cash too boot... so I can save up for part's that I really want, like a nice quality wheelset upgrade .
Hey it's awesome that your having great luck with Sram. If you like what you got, then stick with it. But that's the exception, not the rule. Like a good 90% have found out, anything other then the top-of-the-line is crap.
You can upshift 5 gears at once, but only downshift one at the time.
Not a problem for me, because the click is so light that you cam make multiply downshift in no time.
Unlike the notorious mic, I shift in doubles all the time. Probably more often than singles to be honest. And also unlike the notorious mic, I don't suspect myself to be on the SRAM payroll.
Micky Smalls, are you working for SRAM or the importer? It seems unlikely to me that someone would be so one sided in their SRAM/Shimano affiliation. I can see the good and bad in both but it seems you can't, or are choosing not to.
Exactly my experience.The difference between Sram and Shimano is more about feel than actual performance.
You can't go wrong with either.
That's rich coming from someone like you.
I mean look at your name
Either way considerable work has gone into this. Congrats, I guess.
If true, than it's kind of sad that he can only find agreement with himself.
His next account will be WakiNPC2
Sram man bad, Sram man bad Reeeeeee
Hold the phone. The cassette is the downfall? Durability? For real? I have a hard time following your spout offs. But I will just assume that you have ridden high end Sram? Currently I have over 3,500 miles on a XO1 eagle cassette. It nuts what keeping your drivetrain clean will do for you. Watching you all argue over which cheap ass group is better is quite hilarious. So carry on. And for the love of god, did you see Shimano came out the Deore 12 Speed. Holy shit balls. I can’t believe the came out with such a great product at such an amazing price.
Dude I just cant let good enough lay. It’s like an all you can eat pizza buffet at CiCi’s, just keeping coming for more, even though it gives you exploding diarrhea. After all I am a fat ass murrican.
No. Wakis comments are like explosive diarrhea.
It's shit all over the place.
Ok, maybe that was harsh. Should I have compared discussion with Waki to slamming your dick in a door? Totally pointless and painful?
Wow, man. I know people from different countries have different fetish’s but poop on the face? That’s weird.
I stand corrected.
I was worried when they said “video” that they found a video of the IN Hotpocket. Wheew that was a close one.
Sounds like you can't tell what's good or bad, so you settle for expensive, or complex, really.
Me for one, i'd rather to listen to some Rush, have a few beers, and love on me deore to the grave .
Forged, machined, stamped, yadda yadda… It all comes down to how well things are designed/made.
And I have to call the bs out on Sram vs Shimano shifting, it's that, bs .
My previous gen deore is bulletproof, shifts under heavy loads either way...
Like @jaame said, you can have any drivetrain, any price point, if you don't maintain and look after it, it's give you problems/fail in lickety split.
I'll say it, and say it always... Shimano's chain retention system is practically perfect, and who cares if it utilizes "old" tech, according to "modern" sram… If it's new, and can't work well, then who cares how fancy it was made. Hmpf.
Why do you think it's called sram butter ...
THe SRAM cassette is a piece that I am interested in though. It's light and it looks very nice - the top end one does anyway. It looks better than any other cassette on the market. It jollly well should at £400 or whatever ridiculous amount it costs.
THat said, watching that video, which is what looks like a brand new SRAM setup against a used XTR setup.... it is pretty clear the upshifts are smoother on the SRAM cassette. I'm never going to buy one, but I can still appreciate the engineering and shifting quality.
@thenotoriusmic: there's a limit in what you can achieve with stamping vs machining, yes, for that reason nice stems are machined after forging to remove extra material, for example. Now, I can't see how that is relevant for a cassette that's gonna be ground though mud and just trashed and disposed. Is it to make it feel crisp? Cause that's a matter of taste dude.
Do you know Hambini? What's your opinion on the fact that someone actually qualified constantly bashes sram's engineering and manufacturing quslity, while prising shimano's? Oh, that must apply to road only eh
Both work fine for me.
I use a mixed 11 speed drivedrain with GX chain, trigger, NX der and a XX1 cassette on my hardtail.
That thing shift freaking smooth under power. I can climb, standing up, smashing my pedals and it shifts so smooth with out any effort that most of the time I can barely feel it. Same with my full X01 Eagle.
So the agrument that Sram shifts bad under power is utterly delusional BS by Shimano brand bois. Maybe you should learn how to adjust your Sram drivetrains properly.
My most ridden bike uses a Deore 10 speed.
A really good drivetrain for the money, but not even close to how good my Sram feels.
And unlike most of you guys here I'm more than willing to try out new stuff. It's pretty much settlet that I will give the new XT a try.
I know that it won't be a magical bazzillion, gorrillian, opinion bubbillion times better, than my X01, but just the same as good with a different feeling. And that's totally fine.
Try to hunt for used parts in very good conditions.
Got my first almost new XX1 cassette for 100€
My full XX1, except cranks for 220€.
And a few days ago another XX1 cassette in very good shape for only 70€.
Bying new makes zero sense to me if I can get them so cheap.
Thoughts on that?
Look at the teeth, especially the alloy cog.
The steels cogs can takes 1000s of miles without a sweat.
I like the non black highend cassettes, because you can clearly see the teeth.
Also look how crediable the seller is.
I buy my parts on Ebay Kleinanzeigen.
It's a german side, but you can give it a look too.
Like this offer.
150€ for XX1 cassette in good shape with trigger and der. But it's 11 speed.
These deluded fan boys are hilarious. It’s like telling a religious fanatic that Jesus doesn’t exist or something, you can physically show them something and they’ll just cover their ears and continue to sprout the same old fake news from a by gone era when shimano was actually the best. Those days are gone and if you don’t start calling them out they’re just keep selling the same old tat they’re been selling us for the last ten years. Like I said it’s no coincidence that shimano’s in the bargain bin online and sram isn’t yet 75% of riders and I’m being generous with that are all riding sram. Seems I’m not the only one willing to pay extra for better quality. If the demand for shimano was there, it wouldn’t be so heavily discounted pretty much everywhere online and I’ll remind you when sram was releasing its first eagle cassettes this was shimano’s answer. They actually though this was not only acceptable to put out to the public as a serious alternative to a sram eagle cassette. Go home shimano, you’re drunk. Lol
1. I hope you appreciate the irony of yourself calling fanboy to someone
2. That guy's video is not very empirical, let's say lol, and shifting feel is subjective.
3. Still waiting for the explanation on why CNC is better for an cassette aplication and not just 'a 24 karat toilet'.
4. God bless you! XD
Mind I'm using Sram at the moment cause it came with the bike and I'm happy with it, even tho I start dropping chains cause the clutch is going bad (I could tighten a shimano one) But buying it aftermarket? Not even drunk.
The reality is that all modern drivetrains, even the cheaper ones from whatever brand work damn well.
We are pretty much blessed to life in a time were mtb tech is so freaking good that we can find time to nitpick over small details.
In real life when I ride with others, no one gives a damn what parts, frames, wheel sizes, or even ebikes others ride. We just want to have a good time.
You can find those petty fights mostly on online forums like here. Well it is what it is I guess.
No shifting is not subjective. That’s fan boy talk for I know it’s not the best but I love it anyway. Watch the video and you can see the cassette rotation and you can see the sram cassette shifts faster and smoother and this is without weight going through the system. The differences are more apparent when your pedalling hard over rough ground.
Do I really need to explain why milling a cassette out of a solid piece of metal to the micron by Germans is superior to a bunch of stamped metal disks held together in a box with a zip tie which gouges itself into your freehub body? Ignorance is bliss it really is.
Shimano and Sram feel different, and feel is a matter of taste. Not that you can't see that, you just don't want to.
Man this fight is funny xD
To be fair. Shimano needs to use like 4 titanium cogs and 3 alloy cogs to get to same weight as a fully steel, 1 alloy cog Sram cassette. But that's fine since it works.
Sram alloy cranks are not the prettiest, but you can beat the shit out of them. They don't care. Same for their carbon cranks.
Well unless you are a fat bloke.
I have seen pictures of saint cranks snaped in half by 280 pounds guys, but they can destroy anything.
And talking about big derailleurs.
Have you seen the new 12 Shimano ders in person?
They are just as fat and bulky as Eagle.
I doubt that this will make a difference in terms of rock stikes.
If demand is high, price will be high.
If supply is low, price will be high.
A surplus supply drives prices down. It doesn't matter what the commodity is. Oil, gold. Double the amount on the market and the price falls. That's what happens with Shimano. Multiple channels all supplying the same market at the same time.
SRAM on the other hand, obviously have tighter controls on their suppliers which helps them maintain their ridiculous prices.
Garbaruk make copycat SRAM cassettes for 40% less. I bet they use the same grade of metal and the same CNC machines. Ok they didn't have to design the cassettes so take €120,000 off the total amount they need to recoup to pay those three SRAM engineers their €40k salaries...
SRAM cassettes are overpriced whatever way you look at it. I really want one but I will never buy one.
The SRAM products I have been really happy with are the X9 9 speed shifter and all my rockshox forks. Monarch shocks, totally shite. I've never had a reverb. Guide RE brakes are definitely better than Shimano. SX cranks, heavy but solid. Eagle chainrings are really nice. Rear mechs are something I just wouldn't consider from Sram. You are literally the only person who thinks GX mechs are any good. I'm never going to buy one because everyone says they are plastic junk except you!
I would buy X0 cranks, but I would buy takeoffs because you can get them for £170. No way would I pay the £460 RRP or whatever it is. If I was paying that I'd buy XTR because they are made of metal and they look better.
The situation with SRAM and Shimano is a bit strange though, because the scenario described above only works for the market as a whole (incl. competitors). This indicated that the market they operate in isn't totally free and open. This is likely the OEM part of the market where package deals and strict enforcement of suppliers/buyer rules massively influence prices.
Sram used to have huge portion of OEM for a few years because they had 10-50 12sp cassettes. It ends there.
I’m done here.
I agree Shimano cranks are bulletproof and last for years. I have had a Hone crank which had a pedal insert, God knows why, and it came loose on the left side. I hammered it back in and it cracked the crank from the pedal hole right to the end.
Since then I've had a few Shimano cranks including Zee, two generations of XT, SLX 7000, and they were all absolutely rock solid. Sram cranks, the SX are my first bite at the cherry.
In my opinion, SRAM has a lot of OEM because of their product family deals. Everyone knows Fox is better quality than Rockshox. Everyone knows Shimano uses better quality materials than SRAM except for the very top tier of SRAM. You can argue about the shifting quality but you can't really aruge about the build quality with few exceptions. Holding a Rockshox fork and a Fox fork together, the quality is evident. The same can be said for cranks, even brakes. I am into the SRAM brakes I have now, but in terms of materials and build quality, Shimano is definitely better... but the SRAM brake obviously has a better design at the current time, because it actually does what it's supposed to do and Shimano's 2015- brakes don't always.
Cassettes yes, X-Dome cassettes are really special... but none of the others are.
Shifters, I think Shimano ones are better. Better design, better function but they are both OK and feel nice on the top levels.
SRAM had a wider gear range. The 1x idea was gold. They should have used it to put Shimano out of business but unfortunately they didn't make it as well as they perhaps could have. Then Shimano didn't buy Marzocchi which would have given them great long term competitive parity with the SRAM whole-bike-spec-family pricing structure thing.
When you look at cheap bikes, they all have suspension forks now. Your average customer looks at the bullet points on the shop floor. Suspension fork is one. It's obviously easier to sell a bike with a crappy suspension fork that adds 1.2kg to the weight of a bike, and then crappy gears that don't work properly and also add another 400g and have a shorter lifespan, than it is to sell a quality rigid bike with solid gears and brakes at a good weight. Sex sells. SRAM is sexy. Shimano is a middle aged Japanese man in a grey suit. He turns up to work day in day out. Even working bank holidays with no fuss if he is asked to. SRAM is more your highly strung artist. Great ideas but hardly dependable, especially after a night on the sauce and marching powder, when he doesn't get the right breakfast cereal that he ordered from his hired help.
One is never going to set the roof on fire. The other one is going to set the roof on fire, which could be good or bad depending on your viewpoint.
That said, I think the 2020 Yari works as well as my 2015 36 RC2.
Most people ride rockshox becase their bikes came with rockshox because rockshox offers the same performance for less money... especially when companies also spec sram gears, reverb posts etc. A lot of companies have Fox on their more expensive bikes, because it's better. That may or may not be in finish quality only.
I don't have a lot of experience with Sram, but I have solid years on Zee, XT M780 and M8000. Nothing to complain about with any of them except the M8000 brakes. The cassettes are a bit agricultural but they are also cheap. 11 speed XT cassette vs GX? Too close to call? Neither of them is exactly a desirable item. The X Dome cassettes are desirable, but so are a lot of other things that are absolutely ridiculously priced!
I wonder if someone else can chime in about how GX derailleurs are better than anything that Shimano makes. I want to believe you, and being in a minority of one doesn't necessarily make you wrong, but it's a hard sell. If you take the balance of all PB commentators' experience, you would certainly get the idea (as I have) that GX is pretty crap.
I’m currently running XT, SLX, GX and XO1 cassettes on my bikes. The XO1 shifts significantly better than the rest and it’s had the most use by far. I posted this around a year ago it’s still working faultlessly after another year in the mud getting smashed off rocks. Ive been through so many shimano mechs over the years I’ve never had a single one come close to taking the beating this has. That £10-15 extra you pay for GX over XT has paid for itself twice over.
I guess you got lucky with that GX mech because it seems like literally everyone else says they are rubbish. Unless they're all lying, that is.
Alas, I will never find out for myself. XT has never let me down. SLX has once, two weeks ago.
12 speed SLX has left a lot to be desired.
It picked up a stick and mangled the cages. I bent them back good enough to hit every gear but it amazed me how soft the metal was.
Also the clutch pretty much only works in seven or eight gears.
Ah, I ain't a brand boi either..
I'm just getting a kick out of, being part of this "discussion", and watching all us board mtbers blow are lids .
Sounds like a good set up you got there, and same story here... Only way to get something exactly the way you want, is to build it up your self, like suspension upgrades. I'm running deore 10 speed too, derailleur upgraded with xt pullies, made a small, albeit a nice difference in weight/smoothness of the bearings. I planning on upgrading the cage to xt, once I figure out which one to order. Also planning on changing the chain to xt 11-speed, supposed to help with shifting performance, i'm told.
My big stinker with the nx is, the cassette is a pig, and the derailleur is cheapy plastic/way over complicated. Shimano deore beats in ease of adjustment, and build quality. And the clutch mech on the deore is much more refined then on the nx. It's those small, but important, things that add up to deore being better then nx im my book.
And you can't compare xx1 to nx, it's another world...
It's like me paring a xt 10 speed old stock cassette, with my upgraded derailleur, and new xt 10 speed chain. And like you, I hardly purchase any parts full retail, I snoop the web looking for discounts. Here's some examples...
New Deore M6000 10-Speed 11-42t $119.30
New XT M8000 11 speed pullies $25.00
New Old Stock Sram Guide R Brakeset $180.00
New Sram 180mm Sram Centerlock Rotor Set $60.00
New Old Stock Manitou Markhor fork $180.00
I didn't know AK47 where stamped, but you couldn't have picked a better example: AK47, made to be cheap, easy to use and totally reliable, atributes that made it the most popular assault riffle ever. Could it be any better if machined? Nope. It could be a bit lighter or better looking, if you care about that (that's the reason fancy stems are machined after forging). But would it be any better at killing people because of the CNC? No.
I hope the analogy is clear enough.
Also you insist in calling me fan boy even though I'm telling you I'm using Sram right now and I'm happy with it for the most part, just saying that buying it aftermarket is stupid.
See you next time.
I did 70 miles, 12000' of climbing on my XTR equipped XC bike Saturday.
I did 50 miles, 8000' on my Eagle equipped E29.
Yep, still think both groups are great. I actually think the Sram shifts better under load than the XTR, but, I have a tough time believing that. I am guessing they are both so good that I was just busy enjoying them both.
Also have to say, the XTR brakes are great too. Never experienced any wandering bite point. Modulation was great too, compared to the XTR I used before. I can't directly compare as the Codes are working at slowing down a 40 pound E29 where the XTR is slowing a HT XC, but, I like them both too.
It's cheap but so far that's all.
Don't get me wrong, I wish it is perfect!
Dude, how dare you question if Deore is a good set up. It’s Shimano Deore. And it’s 12 speed. All you need to know.
They still hate Sram and are not open to new ideas/companies. Today's Popular Opinion: "why? when shimano deore exists", and "300$? for something new, not financially stable yet, and from a small company? DISGUSTING". Thanks for tuning in, and tomorrow we will be back for more insight from the industry's leading experts, the pink bike commenters.
So yes, "Why, when Deore is an option?" is a very, very valid sentiment. Shimano just has a huge advantage. Likely TRP cannot compete with such a large company on low-end price, so they have to bring something at least slightly different to the market. Then, price matters less. Think if they brought a $100 derailleur that had similar functionality to Deore. Why get the slightly more expensive TRP derailleur that does the same thing? With the Hall Lock and other marketed differences they're pushing the "different" option concept which in the case of a derailleur is hard because they're basically all the same.
But the buying masses don't write comments on Pinkbike.
It's pretty much the same people that comment here under those articles.
Look at Waki. How does he even find time to ride a bike when he is like 24/7 on Pinkbike making one shitpost rant after another.
Most of the time I just need to read the title of new articles to know what the comments will be like.
Especially when it comes to drivetrains, or brakes.
Based on Pinkbike comments Sram would already be bankcrupt, because their derailleurs explode if you look too hard on them, DOT will make your bike melt away and all their cassettes are made of cheese.
The problem with " they are sample of the masses " is that is always the same sample.
You have like the same 1000 people here who write the comments on the articles.
This number is irrelevant to the market.
The Nocro did sell well,because it's good bike. Nothing special. Good bikes sell well, bad ones aren't.
Trust did not do well, because they made overpriced, ugly markting hype forkes.
Anyone could have foreseen this.
Will this shifter be around in 5 year.s I would not be surprised if not, because it's to overpriced and worse than others. Again, nothing special. Anyone can foresee this.
Let´s appreciate the fact, that someone finally took their time to make a visual guideline for chainlength and B-tension. And on top of that added a "Hall-Lock". I´m not sure about the last one, but the two first ones could be gamechangers for the novice home mechanic.
Other than... Tropical beige paint.
TRP is certainly a more serious contender than SRAM was with the gripshift.
- Yeah they are pretty good but...not quite as good as FiveTens
Shimano are FiveTen thought I'd clear that up
Hint, either make it cheap or make it offer something unique.
I call for a BOX/TRP/SRAM/Shimano showdown!
Read that review.
Seems there's still some kinks that need ironing out.
Exactly, with Shimano’s new Deore 12 speed. Not much else is appealing anymore.
As a full-time wrench, I'm a big fan of some of the subtler innovations on this new derailleur (alignment icons, locking B knuckle, SRAM-style cable guide pulley). I'll need to test it out before giving it any kind of warm endorsement, but if John Hall - "Hall Lock" refers to the former Marine and Aaron Gwin's personal wrench - agrees to put his name on anything mechanical I'm going to at least take a serious look and see.
I respect your opinion
That’s true - I have forgotten tons of stuff. I forgot all about the Stratos FR4 fork i had for a while too. It was made in Santa Barbara CA and i did the mod to make it an FR5. Just saw the box it came back from a warranty service in 20 years ago tonite. Wife says i am outta control with the junx