Review: Trust Shout Linkage Fork - Does Different Mean Better?

Jan 22, 2020
by Mike Kazimer  
Trust Shout review


The Shout is the second entry into Trust's linkage fork lineup, a longer travel version of the Message fork that debuted back in 2018. Like its shorter sibling, it's constructed almost entirely from carbon fiber, including the one-piece upper legs and steerer tube assembly.

The Shout is air-sprung, with 178mm of 'contour travel', and Trust says that the fork can replace a 160 – 180mm telescoping fork. Contour travel refers to the path the front wheel takes as the fork is compressed; with this design there's a curved axle path, as opposed to the linear path of a telescoping fork.

The fact that there's no brake arch to get in the way of a tire means that the Shout can work with both 27.5” and 29” wheels, but keep in mind that it has a 580mm axle to crown measurement, a number that's typically seen on a 160mm 29” fork.

Shout Fork Details
• 178mm contour travel
• Air-sprung
• Carbon chassis, aluminum pivots
• Externally adjustable rebound, low-speed compression
• Axle-to-crown: 580mm
• 250-hour service interval
• 15 x 110mm Boost spacing
• Lifetime bearing warranty
• Weight: 2,160-grams (actual)
• MSRP: $1,975 USD
www.trustperformance.com

The actual weight for our test fork was 2160 grams with an uncut steerer tube. The price? $1,975 USD. Where do those numbers place it compared to other options in this category? Well, a 29" RockShox Lyrik Ultimate weighs in at 2000 grams and costs $999 USD, while a Fox 36 Factory weighs 2020 grams and goes for $1,065 USD.


Trust Shout review
There are three compression settings, and it's possible to fine-tune the open and middle setting.


Chassis Details

Installing the Shout on a bike is a guaranteed method of attracting loads of questions and curious glances. Its appearance can be visually jarring, partially due to the fact that the positioning of the Shout's oversized carbon fiber legs makes it looks as if the bike it's installed on has an incredible slack head tube angle. That's just an illusion, though; take a look at where the front axle is in relation to the head tube and you'll see that it's in roughly the same place it would be on a telescoping fork.

The left leg holds an air spring, which is accessed by flipping open a rubber plug on the side of the leg and then removing the air cap with a 4mm hex wrench, a step I wish wasn't required. Sure, air pressure adjustments are going to be more common during the initial set up period, but it's still more of a hassle than having an air valve at the top of the fork.

Trust Shout
Rebound is adjusted at the bottom of the right leg...
Trust Shout review
...And compression adjustments are hidden under a rubber plug in the middle of the same leg.

Another air spring is located in the right leg, along with a twin-tube damper. Just like on the left leg, there's a rubber plug that covers the air valve, except that there's also a second rubber plug that provides access to the compression adjustments. There are 20 clicks of open-mode compression, and 5 clicks of medium-mode compression. Those modes are selected via the silver lever at the top of the fork. There's also a third mode, firm, but the amount of compression for that setting is not adjustable. Rebound damping is adjusted by turning the red dial at the bottom of the right leg.

Trust Shout Huck Puck
Huck Pucks can be added or subtracted to adjust the amount of ramp-up, but it's not the quickest procedure.

Along with the compression and rebound adjustments, it's also possible to adjust the amount of end-stroke ramp up by adding or subtracting 'Huck Pucks' to each leg. It's a similar concept to what most telescoping forks use these days, although the process is more involved than just opening up a top cap and adding a spacer or two. The air spring and damper need to be removed from each leg to accomplish this task - you're looking at closer to a 20-minute job instead of two minutes, and it's not something that can easily be done trailside. The Shout comes with three Huck Pucks already installed, and it can accommodate up to two more, for a total of five.


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Suspension Design

What exactly happens when the Shout is compressed? Well, it's a little different than what happens with a telescoping fork. Rather than traveling in a linear manner, the wheel moves up and back, away from the impact. This motion effectively changes the offset, the distance between the axle and the steering axis. A change in offset also alters the amount of trail, the distance between the tire's contact patch and the steering axis. In theory, the result of the increasing trail number as the fork compresses should result in more stability, by helping to balance out the steepening head angle as the fork goes into its travel.


Maintenance

Trust says that the Shout shouldn't need any servicing until 250 hours of ride time is reached. For reference, that number is double the recommended interval for a Fox 36. There's also a lifetime warranty on the fork's cartridge bearings. After 4 months of use the bearings in our test fork are still smooth, and the carbon legs have survived countless rough trails without any damage.


Trust Shout fork

Set Up

Trust's set up materials are outstanding – the illustrations and instructions in the included booklet are clear and easy to understand, no matter your level of mechanical know-how. Once the fork is installed, the next step is to set the air pressure in each leg and then the low-speed compression and rebound.

For my 160 pound weight I settled on 155 psi in each leg, 14 – 18 clicks out on compression depending on conditions, and 17 clicks out on rebound. Those settings are all within 4 clicks of what Trust recommends – I ended up running slightly less compression and faster rebound than their suggested base settings.

Keep in mind that the ol' parking lot squish test isn't always the best indicator of how things will feel out on the trail, and that's especially true with the Shout. It's best to find a short section of trail and take repeated runs to figure out your preferred set up.


Trust Shout review
Our test fork spent time on a Banshee Titan, Norco Sight, and a Kona Process 153.


Performance Report

I've been testing the Shout for the last four months on a wide range of terrain, everything from smooth flow trails to chunky, steep, and natural tracks. I wasn't the only one that spent time on this fork, either; two other testers were involved in order to get a wider range of opinions on its strengths and weaknesses.


Smooth Jumps & Flowy Bermed Trails

This is where the Shout felt best. On bermed corners, the fork stayed nice and high in its travel, which made it easy to really trust the front-end (no pun intended) and push even harder through the turn. That trait was also helpful on bigger jumps, where the lack of dive made it possible to get a little more loft off the lip. In these instances the fact that it didn't feel like a typical 160mm fork was a benefit – there wasn't any excessive movement, and it was very responsive to quick direction changes.

Its takeoff performance was admirable, but landings didn't always feel as good as I'd hoped. There were times when the fork felt buttery smooth, typically while touching down onto a steeper transition, and then there were other moments when it felt as if there was barely any travel at all. One of those instances occurred when I came in for a landing from a decent-sized stepdown. I landed a little rear-wheel heavy, and when the front end came down it sent an unexpected jolt through my arms, with more of a 'thwang' than the 'squoosh' that I was expecting, to use some super-scientific terminology.

That happened on smaller drops and jumps as well – at times it didn't mute impacts nearly as much as I'd anticipated. This wasn't due to air pressure or lack of volume spacers either – the amount of travel I was using was in line with the size of the impacts, and I still had a little left over on all but the biggest hits.


Photo Angi Weston


Steep Terrain

The Shout's performance in steep terrain was a mixed bag. On smoother steeps – picture a twisty dirt chute without too many obstacles in it – it performed quite well, with a noticeable lack of dive compared to a telescoping fork. Even though the wheel was contouring to the ground, my weight wasn't getting pulled towards the front of the bike, making it easier to remain in a centered, neutral position. That feeling of calm control is addictive, and some of my favorite moments aboard the Shout occurred while navigating steep, twisty sections of trail.

However, add in some chunkiness to that steep chute and the story begins to change. The lightly damped initial portion of the Shout's travel usually isn't that noticeable when the fork is weighted, since the fork sags past that point, but when riding stair-step like sections of trail, which involve moments when the fork was repeatedly weighted and then unweighted, that initial free play could make it feel like something was loose. I stopped more than once to confirm that yes, my headset was tight. I wasn't the only one that encountered this – other testers noticed the same sensation.


In the Rough

The Shout tracks very well through rough terrain, with an impressive ability to plow straight through obstacles without getting knocked off line. However, it never felt as comfortable as a RockShox Lyrik or Fox 36 when dealing with repeated sharp impacts. It's tough to say whether it was the oversized carbon legs or the compression tune that was making me notice more feedback in my hands and forearms, but either way, in really rough terrain it wasn't the plushest ride.

There's also the fact that with a telescoping for it's relatively easy to anticipate what the front wheel will do when an obstacle is encountered. Hit a rock and it'll move in a predictable, linear fashion. With the Shout, this isn't the case, and different impact angles and speeds can cause it to react quite differently. Not being able to accurately predict what the fork will do can be challenging; there were moments when the Shout would go deeper into its travel than I expected, and others when it felt like it barely moved. This meant I ended up paying more attention to what the fork was doing, rather than being able to put it to the back of my mind and concentrate on the ride itself.

Trust Shout review


Trust Performance's Response
bigquotesShout was designed to provide riders with unparalleled traction, stability, and control at speed. It wasn’t designed to mimic the feel of a traditional telescopic fork. It’s a linkage system—a fundamentally different platform that allows the front of your bike to reap the benefits the rear has for years. So, hell yes it feels different! Sure, you may feel sensations you’ve never felt before—but that’s performance at work.

If you can ditch your years of telescopic experience and accept that Trust suspension will change how you ride, it’ll likely come down to this: looking for something that’s soft and comfortable? Get yourself a Buick. But if you can handle high-speed and crave performance, get a Porsche. Here at Trust, it's straightforward: we're all about riding and making shit for those who like to go fast.
Ben Craner, Marketing Manager Trust Performance




Pros

+ Excellent cornering performance
+ Very composed on steep, smooth trails


Cons

- Not the most comfortable ride feel
- Expensive
- Heavier than its direct competition



Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesIf the Shout's on-trail performance trounced that of a traditional telescoping fork it'd be easier to look past its price, weight, and looks. Unfortunately, that's not the case. While there are intriguing elements to its handling, they're not quite enough to outshine the current crop of high-end telescoping forks on the market.  Mike Kazimer









488 Comments

  • 459 4
 Put this on the Grim Donut!
  • 55 1
 Cam to post the same thing. Got to do it, even if it's just for one picture.
  • 37 61
flag yoobee (Jan 22, 2020 at 2:41) (Below Threshold)
 Better straight to the trash bin.
  • 107 1
 It would be completely horizontal
  • 20 2
 I came to ask if anyone else thought they HAD put it on the Grim Donut. That HA looks crazy with this fork.
  • 12 3
 Username checks out.
  • 6 3
 $2,000 !?
  • 8 36
flag webermtb (Jan 22, 2020 at 7:23) (Below Threshold)
 @cole-inman: That head angle is ridiculous. It is against all physic´s principles and it is going to break in the first big hit for sure.
  • 23 11
 There is definitely a visual illusion that the fork is suuuper slack, but it's actually not. I have spent some good time on the Shout and can agree with Kazimer in that it doesn't feel as plush as telescoping forks. But you can sure bet it feels more controlled and fun!
  • 8 4
 Looks like the headtube or fork would shear off on the ride to the trail head.
  • 11 0
 @christian-peper21: from all I hear about it’s performance over drops, jumps and in the rough stuff id be curious what makes you think it’s more controlled and fun
  • 3 0
 @webermtb: That looks like the design of the fork. Draw a line from the center of the front hub to the steer tube, like it would with a standard fork. Looks more standard slack than super slack then
  • 8 0
 It is probably the only fork that will work on that bike. It will need something with a rearward axle path on that head angle.
  • 37 0
 It'd turn the Grim Donut into the Limp Bizkit.
  • 4 1
 @endurocat: lol, you can buy a whole bike for that
  • 20 0
 @blackapturphoto: @blackapturphoto: The thing is, with the Grim's head angle, the Shout would be the only fork out there that would still work and not bind up.
  • 7 7
 @thisspock: @thisspock: I can answer that, controlled: you stay high in the travel and your bike maintains it's head angle through any terrain where a telescopic fork will make your head angle dive into as steep as possible and really slow you down and therefore lack of fun, especially when it makes you crash.
  • 26 2
 @thisspock: I think what makes it particularly fun for @christian-peper21 is being sponsored by them
  • 11 2
 @thisspock: it probably has to do with the fact that he’s sponsored by them.
  • 2 1
 My comment was referring to the Grim donut bike on Instagram posted by @cole-inman
  • 24 3
 @endurocat: My wife would endlessly Shout at me if I bought a $2000 fork and would never Trust me again.
  • 3 0
 @oldmanfalling: It's an optical illusion because of the where the axle needs to be placed. Look at the fork angle and then, look at the actual head tube. The head tube is actually normal... See?
  • 5 7
 @Ghostifari: okay bud lol never had my fork dive so bad it made me crash lol and the trust is plain horrible for cornering tight corners. Longer bikes are not more fun at all from my experiences.
  • 5 1
 @mhoshal: have you ever spent any time on any Trust fork or are you basing this on looks alone?
  • 1 0
 @cole-inman: not as crazy as I thought...
  • 8 4
 @Ghostifari: I have spent quite a bit of time on it. It's a POS, no question about it.
  • 5 1
 @Ghostifari: Would you get the same "control" you speak of from a rigid fork, since the head angle remains static?
  • 7 1
 Don't. This fork will perform better on the opposite - a steeper than normal head angle. The hits will be more perpendicular to the linkage, making it absorb better, and the disadvantages of steep head angles won't be felt due to the way it performs.
  • 12 7
 What I really want to know is at 2x the cost of a 36, will a Trust fork make me 2x faster?Jump 2x higher? Corner 2x harder? Or just 2x poorer?
  • 9 2
 @Hayek: your wallet will be lighter, so you will be 1% faster, jump 1.5% higher, and corner at least 0.75% harder.

And shitload poorer.
  • 13 4
 @Hayek so stick to mid range hardtail? Cause a bike that costs 2x as much as another bike wont go 2x faster.

Hell, maybe stick with a $60 craigslist find cause you won’t go twice the speed on a $120 craigslist find either. Basically sounds like you should get the cheapest rideable bike you can find and call it a day? Cause as long as it has gears, you won’t find a 2x speed boost from anything really
  • 5 0
 @sdurant12: I like the way you think
  • 4 0
 @garrisond5: If I understand him, he’s saying that because of the linkage kinematics, the HA stays the same while still absorbing bumps. I’d like to try one. Probably just not buy one. $2k is a big commitment for a product that appears to be so divisive.
  • 7 1
 @DavidGuerra: This. A bike designed around the fork would be rad. Most current slacker longer bikes are being made because of the telescopic dive. So when it does go deep in its travel it’s still relatively slacker.
  • 2 2
 @thisspock: and ugly as hell
  • 3 0
 @gnarlysipes: Bought it, rode it, sold it. Got a new Lyrik, a Wolf-tooth axle, and second air cartridge, brought my partner out to a nice dinner, and still have change left.
As for the fork, it shines over a traditional fork in a couple specific areas, but overall, as of now a telescoping fork is better for diverse terrain riding.
  • 2 1
 @gnarlysipes: I know what he's saying. I'm being facetious cause I'm a jerk and this fork sucks and I'm not afraid to say it.
  • 1 1
 @garrisond5: to an extent, yes. The traction and control won't be there nearly as much. One of my bikes is a fully rigid steel custom bike I had fabricated. I run it with a 29x3.0 front and a 29x2.2 rear. It has a 66.8* head angle and it f*cking rallies harder than a lot of my friends on full-sus bikes, partly because of the lack of angle changes you get from the bike moving around in the steep and rough
  • 1 0
 @gnarlysipes: Most shops have free demo programs for them.
  • 1 0
 @webermtb: doubtful.. Kendall-weed has been on one for a few.
  • 1 0
 @Shafferd912: with a shit spec... Sure.
  • 1 0
 @garrisond5: and a 2 grander at that...
  • 3 0
 @bohns1: "Kendall-weed has been on one for a few."

Yeah, but when has he ever not been manualing?
  • 1 0
 @geephlow: Its not just his manualing either, he has a back wheel bias riding style like no one I have ever seen.
  • 1 0
 @geephlow: Hahaha.. I got nothing on that one bro.. Very valid point
  • 2 0
 @salespunk: literally any fork would have a rearward axle path on the donut ????
  • 1 0
 @Ghostifari: I have tested one thats how I know I'd never invest in one. They may be for some people but not this guy.
  • 1 0
 @mhoshal: fair enough
  • 203 6
 I'm a huge fan of linkage forks and I like the solid chassis Trust has created. Unfortunately, they're always going to struggle to work around their digressive motion ratio curve. Not loving the tone of the marketing and unwillingness to acknowledge criticisms that keep coming up in reviews.
  • 211 8
 "looking for something that’s soft and comfortable? Get yourself a Buick."

yeah, this kind of arrogance is def not what I would like to see from a manufacturer.
  • 39 1
 @bikefuturist: And that's coming from a Finn! Wink
  • 51 3
 "making shit for those who like to go fast."
Are we talking quality here?
  • 84 1
 I don't like this generic 'performance' that's being used in the marketing talk. What does that even mean? In principle you shouldn't even notice your suspension. That's normally when it's doing its job correctly.
  • 6 3
 I'm pretty sure the leverage curve is progressive overall. What makes you think otherwise out of interest?
  • 30 0
 @bikefuturist: it is a touch Leo-esque.
  • 14 1
 @seb-stott: Hi Seb, nice to hear from you. Run it through Linkage and you'll see it's falling fast. I believe the ride characteristics can be explained by an unconventional damper being used to offset the motion ratio.

Gergely has uploaded a file to the public library that agrees closely with my own. Let me know if you want to discuss this or ... ahem ... "other" front linkage products and we can continue via email.
  • 30 4
 @R-M-R
Yep. Totally agree. Very interested in the concept but their poor marketing speech serve themselves badly...
They wish to compare to Porsche, so it will be very interesting to see them stand behind that on a timed section back to back with a 36 or lyrik. Until proven, I find their assertions very pretentious considering the technical solutions thatc actually works in MTB and other sports, like MX/SX, moto rally, etc...
Even BMW, which is presently the only maker producing rocker-and-pivot based front suspension anti-dive system use telescopic stanchions and a monopivot rocker, not a horst-link system...
  • 10 2
 @gnralized: BMW's Duolever is fully based on rockers, without the strut of the Telelever. And don't forget the Honda Gold Wing! Every double wishbone / dual A-arm suspension system in a car is essentially the same. It's not uncommon.
  • 5 0
 @CircusMaximus: yup def had that episode in mind
  • 23 4
 @bikefuturist: their response kinda put me off the fork. The analogy isn't great either. If that's how they all think within the company i would find it hard to trust that they really think they've go a winning fork.
  • 28 1
 @bankz: Their unwillingnes to acknowledge criticism might be part of the reason that the Shout suffers from some of the same spring and damping performance issues as the Message.
  • 20 2
 @Ttimer: I don't think that's the case. The Shout has a modified damper that uses little or no compression damping in the initial part of the stroke to reduce the perception of harshness. This appears to be a direct response to internal and/or external feedback and I give Trust credit for trying to address the issue.

My suspicion is the problems are due to trying to use an unconventional damper to work around less-than-ideal kinematics. It should be possible to do so, but it's clearly not easy and, if this is correct, we can hope for continued improvement with each iteration.
  • 10 0
 @R-M-R: what if the ideal kinematics turn out to be upwards and rearwards...if only there was a way.. ????
  • 34 1
 @bikefuturist: I get what you're saying and yes, telescoping forks are reasonably well aligned with the bump forces. One challenge with telescoping forks is that designers have to simultaneously balance steering and handling geometry, bump compliance, and bushing bind.

Linkage forks essentially eliminate binding and allow the designer to separate the other variables. Linkages also allow for a tailored axle path. I'm not sure what the ideal axle path is, but I know it's not a perfectly straight line.

This are some of the reasons why linkage forks have a higher maximum performance potential, but they also create a lot more opportunities to get it wrong and make a worse product. Given as much development time as telescoping forks have had, I think linkage forks should be able to take the lead. Keep in mind how much work has been put into telescoping forks!
  • 2 1
 @R-M-R: good points, thanks!
  • 7 1
 @R-M-R: Obviously, for more rearward axlepath (compared to telefork) you need higher vertical component of impact force to get the axle moving. It's clearly seen in this Insta video someone already posted here, that fork chassis starts bending immediately after front wheel's touch down.
www.instagram.com/p/B558E0rnjV0/?igshid=ee31xvd7l6xr

.
Actually, the bending seems to me a bit strange. Because the chassis must be very stiff from axle up to the crown, for the sake of accomodating the spring and damper inside of it, the bending force has to move up, up to a stronger point which is at fork crown and only then fork legs start to bend. This behaviour makes situation even worse IMO, because it delays the need for axle to move along it's 'contour'.
I wonder if engineers at TRUST has taken into account this behaviour when calculating wheel spring force rates.
Simply said, I wanted to say the fork legs should not be so evenly stiff, they should get stiffer from axle upwards. But it probably isn't safe for the spring and damper components within the legs.
  • 15 1
 @fluider: I have no knowledge of the design process, wall thickness, or lay-up, but I do know the company is full of smart, experienced people and it seems highly likely they thought of that.
  • 42 5
 Yeah.. that marketing response from Trust is unfortunate. No acknowledgement of the same critiques that have consistently come up in reviews and a generic "awww yeeeuuuhh.... that (insert problem) is just the feelin' of PERFORMANCE baby.. you're just not used to it.."

That reeks of not knowing your market and is not what I'd expect from a serious engineering company.
  • 28 26
 As an owner of the Shout, I’d say Trust’s response is accurate, which’s makes it hard for me to see a “tone” in there or denial of criticisms. The fork does make more of a sports car feel. I love that feel. Set the front wheel down from a manual and yeah, it isn’t as supple as my 36 grip 2 was. But that’s not how I ride trail and not how forces hit the bike fork. Like Kazimer’s feedback, when I tested one on my bike, I immediately noticed how planted the bike felt And the confidence it gave me. My bike immediately felt more composed with it on and it kinda just laughs at the rocks I throw at it. I’m really surprised, to see a ho-hum review from PB.
  • 69 2
 While sports cars tend to do well on smooth groomed roads, the trails I ride tend to require some measure of trophy truck softness.
  • 45 1
 @garrettstories: In fairness, its had a ho-hum review from most that have tested the fork, which is why people struggle to accept the tone that everybody seems to agree is coming from Trust regarding any criticism, I understand you are an owner and it cost you a huge sum of $$ though, which does make it difficult to be impartial - we all do it.
  • 14 1
 @garrettstories: I have a few friends that ride them, and the first thing they noticed was now much more traction they had on the front wheel. They love it.
  • 6 1
 Obviously you want to go slow. I want to go fast therefore I must get a Trust fork. Ha! Eat my dust!
  • 11 2
 @garrettstories: same love my shout.
  • 9 5
 @justanotherusername: for me its the best fork ive ever ridden.

I dont really fanboi shit. If i buy and it sucks i let everyone know it sucks.
  • 17 0
 This fork is out there in looks. And obviously based on Kazimer's review not a mind blowing improvement on the current available forks (At twice the price). The response to the review is a bit shocking, I felt they were calling the reviewer Mike Kazimer a sub standard rider. I think thats a bit low (And foolish).

"But if you can handle high-speed and crave performance, get a Porsche. Here at Trust, it's straightforward: we're all about riding and making shit for those who like to go fast."—Ben Craner, Marketing Manager Trust Performance

If they want to prove this new technology, why not acquire some telemetry equipment and do a side bye side review with @mikekazimer.
  • 27 0
 @bikefuturist: this Buick/Porsche analogy is fairly shitty. If we all rode on smooth pavement track, then maybe Trust would have a point.
For the kind of terrain that mtb push hard on, maybe compare your “Trust Porsche” against a trophy truck instead and see which you would rather ride in the rough stuff.
Bad PR.
  • 33 4
 @bikefuturist: I wasn't really turned off to this fork at all until I read the marketing bro response.
  • 16 2
 Wonder if Leo Kokkonen is the voice of the company, too??
  • 4 5
 @bikefuturist: I read the Trust as being the Buick
  • 22 3
 They’ve invested the wife and kids in it, the fork cost double everything else and many reviews say performance is inconsistent.

Do you think they can concede any ground marketing wise? I think they’ve gotta dig their heels in there or it’s game over. Perhaps they should have called the forks the ‘Belief’ and ‘Faith’?
  • 5 1
 @R-M-R: You're right, but to my (limited) knowledge duolever has never been used on an offroad bike, and I was only referring to present working solutions for use in similar context/environment ;-)
Of course 4 bars systems are common on cars, but not designed with the same objectives/benefits as on bikes (wheel/axle path, anti-dive).
  • 7 0
 @R-M-R:
"The Shout has a modified damper that uses little or no compression damping in the initial part of the stroke to reduce the perception of harshness"

It's exactly the same for bikes with high AS/PK: designers lighten the compression tune of the shock to lessen the amount of forces that counteract the suspension compression, and thus diminish harshness.

I agree that you can fine tune the pivots placement to reduce harshness, but you will loose the anti-dive benefit.

For me Trust forks are based on the same conception bias or parti pris that lead to bikes with high AS/PK : having a firm platform without relying on damping.

Maybe it works for "agressive" riders with strong legs and arms that compensate for firm suspension (you know, this Richie R. guy) or those who rides perfectly smooth terrain, but for me it doesn't. I want small hits plushness backed by spring progression and rod speed dependant compression. I will pay for it.
  • 3 0
 @seb-stott: out of curiosity, have you been able to get your hands on one of these for a review? I’ve always liked your suspension reviews so I’m hoping you’ll have one of this thing soon
  • 3 0
 @R-M-R: Touché!
  • 8 0
 @gnralized: If you look into the history of moto forks you will see that linkage forks have been used at various points on offroad motorbikes. But they were never truly successful. It seems like the undisputed benefits didn't outweigh the drawbacks.
The only place where linkage forks ever were the mainstream was in sidecar-racing, to keep the geometry stable under heavy load shifts while braking.
  • 1 3
 @seb-stott: The leverage curve of the fork is 2.4:1
  • 5 2
 @gnralized: when engineers try to talk marketing it never goes too well. Case in point, Einstein trying to explain why we all need to worry that nuclear energy was a bad idea.
  • 5 3
 @Leppah: these forks make their own traction, especially while climbing. That is one of the first things I noticed when I got my Message.
  • 2 0
 @adj227: I like this idea. @TrustPerformance How about a telemetry test?
  • 7 1
 @dirtdiggler: not always sure of my English but I felt bad reading this marketing guy! Maybe is he a WC contender or over skilled alien to answer like that?
Wonder if their after market is as gentle as him?
  • 1 0
 Slap this thing on a Pole....
  • 5 2
 @nozes: More like talking shit for dentists who think they go fast!!
  • 3 2
 @Ttimer: This!!!! Motorcycles are heavier and get pushed harder than any pedal bike ever will. If a heavy, complicated telescoping design isn't a winner for any motorized discipline from MotoGP to motocross, how is it better on a bike where the motor puts out (at best) a couple hundred watts and speeds don't break 60kph?!
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: I reckon the harshness is from the axle path. The rearward axle path doesn’t line up with the direction forces are applied from on landings. Especially when landing rear wheel heavy.
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: That's interesting, by "Digressive ratio motion curve" you mean the leverage rate is digressive, correct? I'd be super interested in seeing the leverate rate curves for the fork. Sounds like a very digressive rate will produce some of the behavior noted in this review and others. I believe there are a number of other compromises made in order to fit the damper and spring in the legs of the fork. While it looks better, the performance may be hindered.
  • 6 2
 @kleinblake: I agree. In some thread, probably far below here by now, I said the same thing. Better compliance on typical "head on" impacts and worse compliance on "slap down" impacts.

@tgent: I mean motion ratio, which is the inverse of leverage ratio. When people say a bike's rear suspension is progressive, if you look at the leverage ratio curve, it's actually digressive, so I'm being more disciplined with my terminology. For example, a bike's leverage curve may go from 3:1 to 2.2:1, which is digressive. The motion ratio is 0.33 to 0.45, which is progressive. The force curve for such a linkage with a linear spring is progressive. This may feel pedantic, but I hope you can see why I'm being extra careful as we get more technical in the discussion.

With that out of the way, my point is the leverage of the Trust products behaves opposite to what we've established as desirable for rear suspension. This requires a very different spring and damper set-up from what we use on rear suspension and it seems Trust is struggling to dial it in. It may or may not be possible to achieve ideal performance with such a curve; we'll find out in a few years as Trust refines their products.
  • 4 2
 @R-M-R: if we’re going to be that specific then I have to address that digressive can still be a rising rate, but with a negative concavity. Basically the curve starts off steep but becomes flatter. In mountain bikes I think it’s best to simplify to 3 types of leverage curves: progressive, linear, and regressive. This way we don’t have to split hairs too much.
  • 4 1
 I think it will take a few refinements before they produce something that will get generally positive reviews. But the Buick/ Porsche line is kinda BS. Maybe they were afraid of a trophy truck reference because a lot of those run Fox?
I’m really hoping for Trust be successful. It just may take a couple versions and for them to actually listen to feedback.
  • 1 0
 @R-M-R: Ok, I follow, I just use leverage ratio much more often, and you are correct a progressive leverage ratio drops which can be confusing, though the curve is digressive, the suspension platform is progressive. This fork's leverage ratio rises, which creates a digressive suspension platform.
  • 5 2
 @nozes: It's 2,000 US dollar shit. So there.
  • 14 7
 While their response to the comfort complaints might have been a little harsh, I can understand why they start to get pissed.
All the reviews just repeat themselfes over and over and complain about comfort, but comfort isnt the primary goal of this fork. It is meant to be stable, grippy and enable to go stupid fast.
I am not here to taunt anyone, but this fork isnt for the average pinkbike commenter (I am just average as well), but for people that go hard on the bike.
Have you ever felt the suspension of a serious racer or pro freerider?
They dont set their suspension up for comfort, but for going fast.

When you want to go fast that 40% sag sofa feel just wont get you very far.
  • 19 1
 @PaulBoettig: I think you are confusing sag / spring weight - which you could also set the trust fork to this 40% example figure and damping / suspension geometry when in use which is giving the impression of reduced ‘comfort’ over more traditional forks.

Pro riders run suspension setups that match their weight, riding style and speed requirements, they don’t all run over damped / sprung forks, infant many pro enduro bikes have very ‘conventional’ setups.

Also, what’s the point in making a fork that isn’t suitable for the average PB contributor - after all that’s the customer, is it not? Pros don’t buy forks and if people as fast / doing as many miles as journalists all think the same thing - isn’t is possible they have a genuine point?
  • 2 0
 @garrettstories: did you demo the fork before you bought it?
  • 13 8
 Is it possible their opposition to criticism has some merit? The one theme I keep picking up from the people who own and are digging it is that it will never outperform a telescoping fork as long as you keep trying to ride it like one. When you’ve had a lifetime habit of riding a particular way it seems inherently difficult to overcome that. It seems that they’ve sold quite a few of these forks, but they’re few and far between finding one for sale at all, let alone a “get this pos out of my life ASAP” kind of bargain sale. Frankly, that says a lot to me just on the surface of it.

Further, why some people are so quick to have their hair raging on fire over the slightest petty perceived slights; emphasis on perceived, still baffles me. Yeah, some of that statement is unnecessary, but that’s true of most marketing schlock. So you’ll never give them a dime ever over that statement? They’re not kidding anyone and were never going to buy it for other reasons regardless or whatever else is going on inside their head. These are the same people that go Johnny Storm “flame-on” meltdown if the POTUS barely twitches his eye. It used to be called being immature. Now it’s just accepted as normal.
  • 2 3
 @bikefuturist: Things that work in a computer model isn't always how it really works in the real world... these people only understand hard numbers. The real world doesn't always go along with that.
  • 3 0
 @TheUnknownMTBR: In fairness, its the same 2-3 people spamming this entire page about the fork with their positive views, I wonder how many have actually been sold? - its hard to criticise something you have spent a fortune on, especially if you sell up.

As for the statement, marketing is one thing, a strap line on an advert thats a bit controversial or an interview response off the cuff, but this is the marketing managers response to a review from the largest MTB community / online mag in the world. Why make this response? Either like POTUS you know it will work as a marketing strategy for your customers / base or maybe because you know what you are doing is a bit 'out there' and there isnt really a better way to respond that wont put off customers in some way / create its own comment storm.
  • 2 0
 MBR just reviewed the fork here with some interesting insight. Thought it may be of interest.

www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/forks/trust-shout-review?fbclid=IwAR2n95QOZ11yfsriaKej5-R9eQb_Nw6KHdWX1DHj4kaXnE7VInFwBhDkfuE
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: Sounds like he really "felt the performance".
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: sounds like he wasnt fast enough either - should have run an additional 100psi so the fork wasnt over damped....
  • 1 0
 Well I agree with him that the Lyrik Ultimate is the fork of the moment (haven’t ridden the latest Öhlins) so he has good taste.
  • 1 3
 Sounds like someone needs a Buick... Yet another pro bike reviewer who couldn't ditch his years of telescopic experience and accept that Trust suspension will change how he rides.
  • 1 0
 @grand69: How should he changed his riding style?
  • 4 0
 @grand69: does changing how you ride account for rebound damping being excessive?
  • 6 0
 @cvoc: I find this incredibly off-putting as well. And the assertion that if you don't like their fork, you must be some slow wanker doesn't help.
  • 3 1
 @Ghostifari: But Nuclear Energy wasn't / isn't a bad idea, Weaponized Nuclear Energy is the bad idea. Big difference.

As for parallels with motorcycling, on and off road - it would seem the telescopic fork has won out and that includes high end racing. There must be a reason for that.
  • 1 0
 @gnarterrorist: It's called money. Telescopic forks are cheaper to build
  • 1 0
 @Ghostifari: That can't really be the reason. The one place where linkage forks are somewhat common is on tiny scooters. That is very obviously not the place where expensive performance technology would be used.
  • 1 2
 @jclnv: That's between him and the fork, But I would guess that he needs to point his dick in the direction he wants to go.
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: I involves not being such a little bitch and accepting that the rebound damping is EXACTLY the right amount for PERFORMANCE..
  • 2 2
 @grand69: can’t tell if serious....

Maybe you are exactly the right amount of brainwashed to be happy with any old shite.

X
  • 1 0
 @justanotherusername: Agreed. He should work for Trust's marketing department though. They guy has selfrightous on lockdown. Even though every review says the fork sucks I'm sure he knows best.
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: yes every review says it sucks.
  • 3 0
 @reverend27: Maybe not sucks but I haven't heard a single reviewer say they're going to run the fork over others.

Arguably, at near double the price of alternatives, you could say it sucks.
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: Guys guys.. I thought I had the sarcasm turned up high enough that it would be obvious.. I mean c'mon. haha
  • 2 0
 @fluider: your post got me thinking. Telescopic forks go through their own share of weird flexing. This is just as unsettling.
youtu.be/NMq2p12RkTk
  • 84 13
 I don't know if I could Trust this fork
  • 22 2
 I'll see myself out...
  • 23 2
 Good Shout
  • 14 3
 Shout out to this Message
  • 1 15
flag RedBurn (Jan 22, 2020 at 1:35) (Below Threshold)
 thats why its called that way Big Grin
  • 4 3
 Shocking
  • 8 2
 I'm struggling to link a pun
  • 4 3
 Who the fork is buying this monstrosity?
  • 12 2
 Don't shout the messenger
  • 4 2
 Doesn’t sound like it’s worth shouting about
  • 5 2
 @nyhc00: Pretty sure Peter Dlinkage runs a set
  • 27 2
 Let it all out. These are the things we can do without. Come on.
  • 7 2
 you know you make me wanna...…..
  • 3 2
 @bishopsmike: to be expected from a Lannister.
  • 2 2
 @Dudeclimbsrocks:

came here to post this......

I fear there might be tears in my eyes were I to ride one of these
  • 1 0
 They are sending us mixed Message's.
  • 1 1
 i'm sure they'll rebound from this mediocre review
  • 58 3
 that statement. there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance..
  • 42 4
 They're playing a similar game to Pole, which is to basically call incompetent both the consumers and reviewers.

Makes me sad to say this, but I think they're doomed. Second product release in a row and they're offering something that attempts to solve issues the average user barely notices, for double the price of the competition, with no OEM deals and plenty of subpar reviews. I really wanted to see some linkage fork to succeed.

Meanwhile, one buys a Marzocchi Z1 for €500 and gets top notch performance and parts support.

I also bet RS and Fox have plenty of cards up their sleeves to keep milking the telescopic fork cow for some years, like "light" DC forks, sliding bushes or maybe damper bypasses
  • 13 0
 @Arierep: You make some good points. Something to consider, though, is that if linkage forks become more popular, the cost will come down as start-up, tooling, and R&D costs are distributed over a larger number of sales.

I still believe linkage forks have a higher maximum performance potential, but it's so difficult to break into a mature market. If a telescoping fork was released at the same $1,975 USD price point, it could have some great technology that could elevate it far above current top models, which would further weaken the value proposition of alternative designs.
  • 9 1
 @R-M-R: price will become reasonable once a linkage fork makes it into a OEM deal. For that to happen they need to either have a clear overall performance advantage or to become en vogue enough. Neither is true as we speak, certainly not with Thrust. The pricing trick they pulled last year didn't help either, plenty of people were annoyed by that
  • 10 2
 @Arierep: I agree. It doesn't absolutely need to gain OE sales: direct-sale margins are super high and they're rapidly paying down their start-up and R&D costs.

The pricing "trick" may have annoyed people, but it was clearly effective and I think it was the right move. Those who purchased at the initial price have been placated with discounts - which also promote future sales - and the enormous profit margins of those early sales solidified the company's finances. Bold move and it worked.
  • 25 6
 I didin't read it this way. It was a bit cocky but not offensive. At least to me. Pole on the other hand... they took big business marketing, turned it up by some and added even more crap of their own "pole originals". The literally said, they made the best mountain bike ever... "All companies are killing the planet, their geometries and manufacturing methods are completely outdated, MTB journalism is against us, everyone is against us, only we and our clients know how cool we are, because our bike is actually the best in the world".
  • 6 1
 @R-M-R: gotta agree with you there. Even if I would think OEM contracts would be better for an emerging company due to the predictability of the supply.

@WAKIdesigns: it takes a special kind of person with the right combination of confidence and technical skill to come up with an out of the box idea, implement it correctly and bring it to the market. From my own personal experience, that's often the last guy you'd want in charge of marketing or PR
  • 3 2
 @Arierep: In this case "The Visionary" is the owner, marketing person, designer, client support, possibly even accountant... I must say, in most cases, these awkward bikes are made by awkward people. Somehow many consider it to be the norm we should asprie to. Let's not forget these are tall people... I think we are simply living in a stage when awkward is sexy. Look at Sick... back in 2010 virtually nobody would give them money.
  • 10 4
 @R-M-R: what they need to do is strap one to the front of Sam Hills bike.

You get some of these on ews bikes and people see that these are faster they will sell like hot cakes. And the competition will scramble to make their own linkage forks.

Linkage are the future no where but up to go.
Telescopic can only continue to make small changes to sell them to you year after year.
  • 5 0
 @reverend27: You're not wrong!
  • 7 2
 Their response sounds like something the dicks from ‘sick bike co’ would have come up with
  • 2 3
 @CrispyNuggs: oh ya totally the same.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: have you actually ridden one?
  • 50 1
 I want to really like this fork and see it become a real alternative to the telescoping status quo. Even its looks have become familiar so therefore not quite the shock it was initially. Give it another 5 years of development and I'm sure it will be excellent.

But: 'Sure, you may feel sensations you’ve never felt before—but that’s performance at work.' I dunno, we all know that line is marketing w*nk but it seems a little contrived and almost defensive.

I wish them the best to crack the concept and will hope to ride it one day!
  • 29 8
 I didn’t want to like this fork. It’s expensive, and looks weird. Then I rode one and My preconceived ideas were left to rot in a rock garden after I cleaned a nasty section of trail I’d never been able to get. The cornering traction, extra pop on the jumps, the way I could just throw the bike into any rock garden Made me a believer. There’s something to the beginning rearward axle path (like rear suspension on our bikes) that helps you maintain control and speed. It also helps make the bike more stable because the “trail” measurement doesn’t get out of whack as it goes through the travel. Believe the hype, don’t believe it. I don’t care. But you gotta ride one.
  • 21 1
 Considering telescoping forks have about a 30 year head start on the R&D, I'm impressed that this can come out of the gate and outperform the big guys in a few key areas without bombing in the rest. It might be an early adopter kind of product right now and it's priced that way, but I agree that it's shortsighted to write it off at this point. 2 months on my Shout and I value the benefits far more than I am concerned about the couple of areas where it doesn't quite compete yet (price, weight).
  • 13 1
 @esmith223: I think that's a relevant take on this. All the bikes that are used with this were designed for telescoping forks, and partially around telescoping forks' shortcomings (binding, vagueness in the front end under dynamic load, etc.). It'll be interesting to see if they just have Dave Weagle design this and call it good, or if they go a step further and have him work out how you'd want to change geometry and rear suspension on a bike to see if there's something that can push the whole package beyond what this can do on a standard bike. Right now, it seems like it's definitely making some early adopters who value the things it does well (cornering traction and such) very happy, which is a good start, but they've not even begun to really exploit the potential. Mind you, they might work really hard at that and in the end not really come up with anything that's a serious step up from how the status quo is evolving - but the potential is intriguing.
  • 3 7
flag Ghostifari (Jan 22, 2020 at 8:58) (Below Threshold)
 They really are all that, the proof is riding them though. It is all about first-hand knowledge and forgetting all you know about riding on a telescopic fork. Everyone who writes a negative review about the fork and claims it is too "harsh" are all riding the fork like a telescopic fork and that is the problem with the test.
  • 3 2
 @esmith223: linkage suspension is about as old as telescopic, The AMP Research fork came out in the 90's and linkage suspension has been around longer in auto and moto
  • 12 1
 @Ghostifari: what is with you posting "bump" all over the place? We get it, you like the fork, quit the spam.
  • 2 2
 @Socket: my bad. I was thinking I was on MTBR for a minute
  • 7 0
 @garrettstories: looking for some clarification on how it helped you clean a nasty section of trail that you have never been able to get.

Is this a section that you rode daily? Weekly? A few times a year?

When you couldn't get it did it result in a crash? A dab? Or just stopping and walking it?

Once you were on the linkage fork did you just charge straight into the section in question and cleaned it?

Have you retried the section since o. A telescopic fork and resulted in carnage again?
  • 1 0
 @Ghostifari: Everyone who writes a negative review about the fork and claims it is too "harsh" are all riding the fork like a telescopic fork and that is the problem with the test.“

Please explain.
  • 1 0
 @CircusMaximus: With a telescopic fork you need to keep more weight up front over the wheel to keep traction. This is usually done without even thinking about it or being aware of it, it is something our body may do naturally as the front wheel moves in and out of traction patches. Along with this, it weights the fork that helps facilitate flex.

With a Trust fork, the traction is already there inherent in the overall system of the trailing link. The weight bias is unnecessary and will cause more of a straight-line vector of the ground to the arms/shoulders leading to more trail input. If the rider changes their body position and adapts to the movement of the fork and basically rides the fork as if it were a rigid fork, the traction will come and the benefit will be noticeable along with less of a transfer of trail input.
  • 3 1
 @Ghostifari, so I'm supposed to pay $2,000 for a fork that only works if I change my riding style to the opposite of what my body naturally wants to do. Where do I sign up?
  • 39 2
 @mikekazimer Give us the Titan review asap!
  • 21 2
 Agreed. Much more interested in the Titan than the Shout, to be honest.
  • 16 2
 Came for the Shout review, left wanting for the Titan one.
  • 4 12
flag WAKIdesigns (Jan 22, 2020 at 4:06) (Below Threshold)
 What's Titan? What did I miss?
  • 13 3
 @WAKIdesigns:
It's the RST Titan fork of course!
rstsuspension.com/en/forks/dh-fr-am/titan-dh-fr-am
Who isn't waiting for a review?!
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: the bike they tested it on
  • 4 1
 @WAKIdesigns: new generation of banshee bikes out. Titan is long travel 29er
  • 6 6
 This is all very confusing... nothing here is made of Titanium nor has anything to do with Greek Mycology or Saturns moons
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I ride a new Titan and it's awesome . But this fork,as much as I want to need one, makes me confront the reality I'm not riding terrain that justifies owning one and if I did, I'd be on my KTM 300 doing it.
  • 4 3
 @chasejj: I am waiting for Fox 38 impatiently... something tells me though that Fox 40 or Boxxer Ultimate, both in 180mm versions, would suit me better and 700g weight penalty would be worth it... The 38 will not be cheap. 36 is already morbidly expensive in EU.
  • 5 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I still maintain that a 2300g twin crown enduro for would be easy to make and would out-perform any single crown fork. A 29er 170mm fork is getting seriously long.

This hypothetical fork would just need massive fork bumpers so frame manufacturers wouldn't have a heart attack.
  • 6 2
 @hamncheez: Oh my God... imagine this! DC Fork bumpers being the selling point for an Enduro frame! DC fork compatible! We just made so much money for them! That silly Nicolai trail bike is park compatible... oh really... my Enduro bikes are DC fork compatible!

WARNING! Comment patent WA.KI.2020.555.555.69
Cconcenrns use of DC fork bumper in proximity of headtube on frames with less than 179mm of rear travel. Company must contact Wakidesigns before creating such frame and selling it to the public.
  • 1 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Too late!!! YT is already using "dual crown compatible" in their marketing of the new Capra:

www.pinkbike.com/news/the-new-yt-capra-everything-you-need-to-know.html
  • 4 2
 @hamncheez: VERDAMMT! Ich wurde beraubt!
  • 1 0
 Yessssss!!!!
  • 3 1
 @hamncheez: Manitou X vert carbon
  • 1 0
 @Mac1987: Strange, no 29" option...
  • 1 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: ? isn't that like a 15 year old fork?
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: at least- not entirely serious comment. But something like that a modern enduro dc could look ( maybe a bit bigger stanchions though)
  • 2 0
 @optimumnotmaximum: So MRP makes what they call a freeride/enduro DC, but it weighs more than a boxxer 29er. The boxxer only weighs 2600 grams, so if its run in reduced travel mode, maybe you could use lighter crowns and save some weight there. 2300 grams is about 5 pounds, and I bet thats the breaking point weight for people to actually buy such a product.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: The DC MRP Bartlett weighs 2,580 grams (their coil single crown weighs 2110 g). The 180mm travel Bartlet has an AC of only 584mm, which is on par with a single crown 170mm travel fork.
Waiting for someone that shreds harder than me to implement one of these forks in to a 'Super-Enduro' build.
  • 4 0
 @SunsPSD: Why is it so heavy, though? That is almost 600g (or half a XC fork) for a bit of extra empty stanchion and one extra crown (which is probably lighter since there are two of them).
  • 1 0
 *almost 500*
  • 2 0
 @Ttimer: I dunno. Maybe it's overbuilt with consideration for how it might be used?
  • 1 0
 @mixmastamikal: It's pretty cool. One note is that the stanchions in that kit are not Kashima. Some other unnamed ano treatment. If that matters to anyone.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: WTF I looked at it just the other day and I could have sworn their website said like 2800g for the Bartlett
  • 1 0
 @mixmastamikal: thats pretty cool
  • 4 2
 @mixmastamikal: why would I do this? What’s wrong with stock 40? Looks like another woke af idea of Chris. 699£ to signal to people and fool yourself how much of a bike physics expert you are? Let me guess: everyone who bought it brags how much difference it makes but you cannot see it for sht in their riding?
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: dont lie to yourself or us, you'd buy a fox 36 DC 180. That would be a rockin enduro fork.
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I was more referring to the kit that converts a 36 to a dual crown fork. I am not trying comment on the reduced offset so much and especially not for the 40. I personally don't know of anyone that has ridden it.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Not many upgrades make any rider go outright faster than they did before, it's really about comfort and confidence which ultimately helps a rider progress once they learn to utilize the advantages.
I'm a 180# trail rider riding on a 65 degree HTA 160mm Lyric (which is already much stiffer than a Fox) so a DC fork would be wasted on me. However I know some big boys, that smash really hard, on a 170mm travel bike that's really slack (which effects flex), I feel these guys would be good candidates for a 180mm DC fork on their Enduro rig.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: dont forget the rocky mountain slay says it. And the rose soulfire says it too.
  • 3 0
 @mixmastamikal: ahh sorry, I didn’t notice that, I thought it’s crown kit reducing offset on 40 to 36mm - dumb me. Interesting but it will be equally or more expensive than 40 and weight difference will be minimal. Seems to me
Personally like piston kit for 40 would be a better idea.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: After last year, I see little point in running less than 180 travel in the front when riding in actual mountains. I am completely sold on “Super Enduro” or converting DH bikes to be climbable - wide range cassette, dropper, Strap between crown and arch to lower the fork for climbs. I use DH tires on my Enduro bike anyways since I am destroying Double Downs.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Totally agree here. Dual Crown forks and a sturdy frame make much more sense than what a lot of manufacturers are trying to sell as innovation.
The problem for me is finding a DH bike with a not ridiculously slack seat tube angle and and straight seat tube that allows for a dropper post to be inserted. Any suggestions on compatible frames?
  • 1 0
 @Klosteinlecker: it goes under the radar but effective seat angles of DH bikes hover around 74-75 degrees (otherwise tires would smack in the saddle all the time, given frames have so much travel and low pivots) so at least for folks up to 180cm tall, it’s fine. Off course rear sags a bit more but the SA is still in 72-73 area after sag has been added. The biggest issue is the poliferation of shock adjusters requiring tools, so you cannot just adjust LSC on the fly.
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: True, but on the other hand I struggle to find a dh bike with a dropper compatible seattube (straight).
  • 1 0
 sold out
  • 2 0
 @Klosteinlecker: Soon we will be pedaling up mountains on 38lb Enduro rigs with DC forks. At some point around 34+ lbs it starts to feel like work.
  • 1 0
 @chasejj: Hats off to the Bros that need that sort of rig. I'm pretty content with a quality Enduro bike even at the bike park.
Still I dream of a Superfoxy with a Bartlet DC fork but in a bike that can be pedaled. Guarantee I could have a shred worthy rig like that weigh under 33#s.
  • 32 1
 Pinkbike Poll:
Do you prefer your suspension to be thwangy or squooshy?
  • 5 2
 Mine goes bouncy-rebouncy
  • 8 1
 @WAKIdesigns: try slowing down your rebound. You should be going for “bounceeee”, not “bouncy-rebouncy”
  • 26 1
 I've ridden this fork for a little while and I agree there is some harshness when 'hucking to flat', but felt the complete opposite over rough terrain. I seem to accelerate over rough terrain compared to my lyrik. It is quite a strange feeling. It has made me faster too because you can 'pump' the front wheel with considerably more support than a regular fork. I think my favorite thing about this fork though that was only glossed over in the review was the geometry preservation. I noticed I could very accurately apply more force to the front and rear wheels off my bike in flat corners because of the added support of the front, and the anti dive characteristics, it allowed me to more effectively counterweight the rear wheel (if that makes sense).
  • 15 1
 Agree to what you’ve said above. I never thought my telescoping fork was lacking until I rode one of these. The way this thing handles rough terrain is unreal.
  • 1 0
 I guess this fork works better with a steep HTA. The travel is more backward and with a slack HTA it might become horizontal, especially when you land rear wheel first!
And is it maybe pushed more into its travel under breaking? And that is why it doesnt performe in the steep?
  • 1 0
 @WoS: From my experience brake dive happens less with this because of the axle path.
  • 21 1
 I think one of the biggest overlooked things on the Trust forks is technical climbing performance. On my second ride ever on The Message, I PRed the downhill AND the uphill. Being able to shove it into square edges and just have it roll over while climbing means you can take almost any line and it is so much easier to keep momentum. The increased cornering and downhill confidence is worth the trade-offs for me.
  • 7 6
 How much did you PR it? Are you using Strava all the time? Because I had quite a few PRs last year despite it being first year of no gym training and rode much less than last year, due to lower back injury and fascination with Dirt Jumping. I also got up 4kg in weight and used heavier tires. If you ask me... Strava feeds you with “keep using me, I’ll make you feel good about yourself” kind of shit. As if innacuracy wasn’t bad enough, making 99% of DH segments timing worthless (you have a 2 minute downhill and you have 5-10s differences when hitting lines in a similar manner? - anybody who did Strava on DH runs in the park knows that.

Otherwise the best explanation would be: Dirt Jumping does wonders for climbing!
  • 2 2
 Right? these forks climb like scared mountain goats!
  • 3 1
 @Ghostifari: how many Watts exactly?
  • 2 2
 @WAKIdesigns: #allthewatts
  • 5 2
 I agree. Technical climbing is much smoother/easier with a Message or Shout. Plus there's a lot less bobbing than with a telescope.
  • 5 1
 @leelikesbikes: yes nothing was mentioned of the fact you can stand up and pedal without going thru half your travel with each pedal stroke.

Or the lack of brake dive.
  • 4 0
 @reverend27: from all the descriptions I have read, Trust should simply make a DJ fork... while I will not buy it, I do appreciate the fact it exists. We do need variety of products on the market. It moves everything forward.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: thanks waki.
  • 21 1
 I wish there was a huck to flat video on the shout. The wheel path doesn’t seem like it’ll be forgiving unless you’re plowing into a rock.
  • 4 0
 Great idea.
  • 22 0
 @sdt0012: Wow. That looked like the suspension equivalent of someone dropping a sack of potatoes on the ground. Hope they got a big marketing budget......they gonna need it.
  • 5 0
 WHERE IS THE HUCK TO FLAT TEST???!!!!
  • 2 0
 That's what I experienced on the message. It's just not much movement when there's no obstacles pushing the wheel back. And that hurts pretty bad
  • 9 2
 I have the shout. Landing flat is good. Landing rear wheel first then front wheel isn’t as plush as my 36 was, but not jarring by any means. But Huck to flat test is kinda pointless because you don’t rude your bike like that.
  • 4 0
 Maybe you don't. But some people do @garrettstories
  • 5 2
 Like the reviewer said, when the front smacks down on a flat landing it was very harsh. Probably same type of feeling but worse than slack DH bike with an overstrung fork. Those long arms have to be creating a large amount of torque around the head that feels odd. Linkage forks might have a future but probably not this one.
  • 3 0
 @garrettstories: come ride in New England, I think huck to flat was invented here....
  • 2 1
 @SirWonky: sacks of potatos are pretty tightly packed and probably have less flex than that
  • 22 0
 Think of how many water bottles you could mount on that thing !
  • 2 0
 LOL!
  • 18 1
 I wish the review had talked more about geometry and body position. I've had a Shout on my Ripmo for about two months and those are some of my biggest takeaways. The way it preserves the geometry of the bike in the corners and steeps lets me shift my weight slightly forward more of the time, or at least not shift it back as much. That makes me more balanced on the bike more of the time, and in turn gives me better control and a little more traction on the front end to boot. The only time I've noticed more harshness is what Kazimer mentioned with an occasional sensation on hucks to flat, and not even all the time in those scenarios. To me that's not a deal breaker because that's not a regular part of my riding. It's certainly not cheap and there's no arguing that it's a few grams heavier, but so many riders don't blink at dropping $2000 on a set of carbon wheels when you can get the exact same performance for half that. IMO the Shout performs better than my 36 in terms of control in rough terrain and traction on the front tire, and that's what's most important to me in a fork, even more that perceived comfort.
  • 5 1
 Totally agree! The way you can ride the front and weight your bike more evenly with the Trust forks is a game changer. It makes up for the slight harshness on flat hucks, and I found that even on those if you just point the front end in a little more than normal it eliminates the harshness. Traction & Control over a telescoping fork all day
  • 16 1
 "looking for something that’s soft and comfortable? Get yourself a Buick. But if you can handle high-speed and crave performance, get a Porsche"
... if you want both in one - get a coil fork.
  • 14 0
 I currently have a Trust Message on order, along side a new custom hardtail frame. After a long discussion with the framebuilder and with Trust we are going for a 68 degree head angle. Some of the main things about this fork is the different effects under compression compared to a telescoping fork. I think to get the most out of it we need to modify the frame to suit. I know 68degree head angle.....makes me sound like a roadie who has posted in the wrong forum... Super excited though
  • 8 2
 You have the right idea. Although many are calling for Trust forks to be mounted on very slack bikes (like the Grim Donut), doing so will result in harsher slap-down landings than on a steep setup like yours. Because the Shout has a rearward-then-upward axle path, its initial travel could be made to be entirely horizontal -- given a slack enough head angle (technically true of a telescoping fork also, which Mike Levy seems to be trying to prove with the Grim Donut). Your bike will probably be the sweet setup at 68 degrees!
  • 2 8
flag Ghostifari (Jan 22, 2020 at 9:13) (Below Threshold)
 bump
  • 14 0
 Funny seeing everyone miffed By Trust's style of promoting it's products... Lol

You guys don't know much about Dave Weagle do yah? That guy could shit on your lawn and would argue it's the best looking flower in your garden.
  • 4 0
 DW is no competition to message board engineers. Weagle doesn't know what he's talking about, I have it from multiple teenage sources that this fork looks like it's going to break.
  • 13 1
 Into the mosh pit I go..

So I’ve been riding a shout for about five months now. It’s on my megatower. I’m 5’ 10” and 150 lbs. I work full time but race pro level enduro in my spare time. Full disclosure: I’m sponsored by trust for equipment but not paid by them.

I’ve ridden this fork in hot weather, rain, mud, dry, snow, rocks, jumps, fast, slow, up, down. Every product out there has both strengths and weaknesses. One filter point I use is do those strengths line up with mine to create a better experience or not. I would not have committed to riding this fork unless I felt like it was going to improve my ride. Here are my opinions based on my experience riding this fork:

Yes it feels different than a conventional fork. It takes a little time to get used to it and to figure out the spring tune and damper settings (much like getting a new frame with different suspension platform). I settled on air spring psi equal to body weight in pounds. My rebound is set fully open. My compression settings are also fully open. As far as damper adjustments go this is actually pretty similar to how I would run a lyrik.

The chassis feels more rigid than most other current single crown forks I’ve ridden. I think this is part of what gives the fork such a planted feel in corners. That and the fact that the steering geometry is less affected when compressed versus telescoping forks.

When riding trails with average speeds of 20-30mph and big square edged bumps I was impressed by how the fork made them seem to disappear. I haven’t ridden a fork that handles this type of speed and bump better. Not even close. Maybe this is a combination of chassis rigidity and axle path?

At slower speeds and cornering through flatter rocky sections I noticed the fork was active and stable. There are no bushings in the system to bind under these loads.

In snow I notice that it has excellent tire clearance. Also it doesn’t seem to perform differently in very cold versus warm weather. I think part of this is that the chassis doesn’t rely on any type of grease or oil (I’m not counting the cartridge bearing pivots here) to keep moving smoothly. I’ve always noticed that when things get really cold telescoping forks tend to feel more sluggish. I’m sure that’s partly the spring but I think it’s also partly what the dust wipers and grease/oil do when cold. Another reason for this might be that there is no lower casting that is holding air pressure (and sometimes building pressure) like most telescoping forks. This takes away the inconsistencies that some people experience in most forks when going through big elevation or temperature changes forcing them to either just deal with it or try to bleed the pressure off. Some forks actually have bleeder valves to make this easy (FOX 40).

In short all that stuff made me realize how consistent the fork performs.

I do notice the harsher feel on flat landings. At first it bugged me. Then I realized that It wasn’t making me slower and that that type of feature is a small part of some of my rides whereas most of most of my rides are high speed bermed corners and jumps with ramped landings.

I notice that the fork is slightly less compliant over stutter bumps than other forks. This is again probably in part because the chassis is so rigid.

Let’s talk about maintenance. Most telescoping forks work best if you pull the lowers off every 50 or so hours and replace wipers/seals and oil. That’s time/and or money. How much depends on how much you do yourself. Most forks dampers require a rebuild every 100-200 hours. more time/money. The Trust is a 250 hour interval. that’s pretty sweet.

Over time I realized that the trust fork strengths lined up with mine and I really like it’s ride quality. It’s weaknesses were minor for me and my terrain.

I’ve found that there is really nothing like riding something for yourself though and forming your own opinions based on your own experience. Trust offers a 30 day return policy. Get one, ride it on your bike on your trails. Figure out if it works for you or not. Ship it back if you don’t like it. That’s pretty rad. If you end up wanting to keep it then.. well you’ve got fancy problems.

Due to the day job and kids & stuff I may not hop back on here for a bit. Apologies in advance if I’m slow to respond to something.
  • 14 1
 I suspect that people will eventually get over the strangeness and start to appreciate the other things it does better than a telescopic fork.
  • 7 0
 If prices were comparable, I would agree with you. But I think price is going to slow the acceptance rate. It's also tough when a $700 fork from one of the big companies feels pretty good for most people.
  • 10 1
 I agree. This is the first version of this product (second version if you consider the Message as v1). It's still priced for early adopters and I can't imagine the costs of launching a product like this. But if it's this good for a first version (my experience on the fork is different from a few of the more critical points of this review, I think it outshines traditional forks in a few key areas) then I think the potential is massive. If I were Fox or RockShox I'd be keeping a close eye on Trust.
  • 5 0
 @esmith223:
If at any point Trust becomes a real "problem" for the big players, they will just straight up buy them and the Trust founders will happily take the paycheck and ride off into the sunset.
  • 4 1
 @jrich2095: I am sure there will be a "budget" aluminum version coming really soon. Dave Weagle made one for his Cake E-moto www.instagram.com/p/B7Zin2nFcXj
so it is a matter of time I am sure.
  • 4 0
 @Ghostifari: The fork looks right at home on the Cake! In a good way I mean.
  • 2 0
 @jrich2095: right?!?
  • 3 1
 @jrich2095: lucky i was able to land one from pb buy/sell for $1100.
  • 4 1
 @Ghostifari: oh hey wow an actual electric motor cycle.
  • 13 2
 I found that Trust forks feel the best when you start to ride them more aggressively. When you weight the front end in a steep rock chute or pushing that front end to maintain traction in a corner it’s loads different than a telescoping fork and I find it much better and has a higher confidence level. The more aggressive you ride, the less you feel these claims that Kazimer makes of it being harsh and or not predictable. I find once you are used to the stiffer chassis your handling is more predictable as there is less fork flex
  • 7 3
 I agree totally! This is from a review I wrote up about the Message,

The very first thing that you notice about the Message is the feel at the bars and the view of the trail. The solid feel is very reminiscent of a rigid fork. Holding on to the bar and applying pressure to one side then the other in a twisting manner gives a feeling of holding onto the bars of a bike with a double-crown fork. There is zero flex in the system, and I can’t emphasize this enough. There was so little flex, I needed to keep my body looser than normal.

I found that the more aggressive you are with the fork, the more rewarded by speed and stability you are. The fork just makes its own traction in every situation I threw myself at. From big rocks to pea gravel and some sand pits, the front end stayed glued and predictable, as long as I remembered to stay fluid on the bike. Lean and steer with my hips, keep my head and shoulders level with the ground and the front end would just track like it was on a rail. I stopped a few times to play with the rebound to get it just right. It was feeling a little slow for my liking, so I adjusted the rebound to 16 clicks (always begin adjustments from the closed position/full counterclockwise) and it was spot on.
  • 8 2
 I was in my lbs and it was funny watching them ride around the shop bouncing up and down on my bike like kids. Just a reminder that bikes are fun and thats why i do it. But to the Shout and handling.. The way i would say it it normalizes my bikes handling. Its the same all the time its there and its reliable. Just came off a coil fork and the Shout is more plush less sticktion. I have several test area i like to use a certain root garden a certain flat corner a loop around a lake that i can run over and over again. On the 90 degree flat corner and just let me say railing flat corners is something i obsess over. This fork corners like no other i have ridden. The first time i went into the corner i went at it like i normally would shifting my weight way forward leaning the bike while twisting my hips toward the exit. Then i realized it was not necessary i was shifting my weight too much i dont need to do that with this fork. Just point it into the corner lean and it just carries you thru the corner. Cant wait to really push it and find the limits of this forks handling. Forks i have bought and ridden in the last 4 months looking for Goldie locks. Dvo Diamond, mrp Ribbon coil, Fox 34 150, Rock shox lyric ultimate, fox 36 grip2 and Intend Hero. Shout just makes me faster and i ride for speed that's what i find fun cornering at high speed is exhilarating and addictive.
  • 15 3
 what a terrible quote from the marketing manager.. swearing? using car brands to try to convince you? wtf find someone that isn't a bone head
  • 13 1
 Slap one of these on a mixed-wheel size Ebike equipped with Sram AXS components and a Backcountry sticker. You'll piss off literally everyone.
  • 11 0
 "Believe it or not, it doesn't feel much different from a regular fork like this" - guy I overheard talking to his mate while manualing down the carpark
  • 14 5
 Trust and Pole demonstrate that "I'm smarter than you, what you're feeling is wrong." response that definitely make me want to stay the hell away from their products. Clearly demonstrating what a typical customer service inquiry will sound like. No thanks.
  • 11 1
 They’ve had the best customer service of any brand I’ve worked with. I had a leaky air spring while I was on a trip, and they next day aired the replacement to a nearby shop. They may be confident (Arrogant?) in their marketing but I can tell you from experience that they stand behind their product.
  • 12 3
 I am a big fan of both the Message and the Shout. I have been on the Message since last spring and put the Shout on in September before a trip over to Zermatt. It does ride differently, and you need figure out how many tokens and what pressure to run. But when you dial them in they are magic! I think of it like driving a Porsche vs Grandpa’s Lincoln town car down a twisty mountain road, Sure Grandpa’s Lincoln has a comfy ride but the Porsche blows by gramps at 3x the speed…
  • 7 6
 This must be why all the enduro pros and downhill pros are riding them. Oh wait, they aren't.
  • 10 1
 Having spent about 6 months on the Shout I actually understand now that gushy plushness is not equal to speed and control. I love the analogy that a grandma's cadillac has plush suspension, but a race car has suspension that may feel stiff, but actually lends great control and speed. I feel like the Shout gives me better control, especially in corners. It's also fun as hell to ride!
  • 10 1
 I'm a little surprised that a suspension fork review doesn't have one single mention about traction. You mention that the wheel tracks the ground well (but don't mention if it does so better or worse than traditional forks), but never once mention if it provides more or less traction. Seems like a serious oversight for any suspension product review, much less one where one of the primary selling points is claimed increased traction.
  • 15 5
 Double the price and half as good as a normal fork. They must have a hell of a marketing department if they’ve actually managed to sell any!
  • 11 0
 Despite the feel, was the bike actually faster than with a normal fork? Maybe some timed testing is appropriate?
  • 10 2
 The marketing-speak in that response was a real turn-off. When Fox got feedback that the 36 wasn’t as good as the Pike over small bumps, they went and made GRIP2. They didn’t go around telling people “you just don’t understand how a performance fork is supposed to feel.”
  • 9 3
 They didnt make grip2 marz did.
  • 1 1
 @reverend27: true story. I was working for Zoke in 2014 when we were developing it with the C2R2
  • 5 4
 @TheBearDen: damn downvote for telling the truth you must work for fox news.
  • 2 1
 @reverend27: I didn't downvote you. I just WUTED you. It's a meme thing....

So buddy boy who worked on the charger damper for the pike who then moved onto fox to work on the grip damper... Was he from Marzo originally then? Because now I'm a little confused on how this timeline works....
  • 3 1
 @TheBearDen: there was an article here on pb where they said (fox) grip2 came from the marz purchase.

Im not really in the mood to go find it and then read it and find that part.
  • 2 0
 @TheBearDen: Yeah, it's quite well known that the GRIP series dampers were designed and built by Marzocchi which was later acquired by Fox. Fox developed the GRIP2 with the Marzocchi team and used it in their high end stuff. This is about the time they stopped trying to push their sub-par FIT4 dampers.
  • 1 0
 @Brett13: The article I read just said it was designed by the man behind the Charger Damper who then came over to fox it never really explained he didn't go to Marzo who then got bought out by Fox.... Kind of Odd they would report it incorrectly if it was common knowledge and would have made for a better story.

interesting information to know though!
  • 2 1
 @TheBearDen: i can see the motivation

Biggest suspension manufacturer in the world gets bested by a smaller company in financial trouble and then buys them out and uses the other manufacturer damper in their most expensive fork.

Kind of embarrassing.
  • 9 0
 I'm sure this fork on a Polygon XsquareOne (yup, the NAILD R3ACT one) would cause quite a scene at any bike park. I hope somebody does it.
  • 14 3
 Heavy, expensive,ugly. Pick three.
  • 16 0
 I never thought I'd have so much in common with a suspension fork.
  • 14 7
 Weird Review. I have riden the fork a couple times and where it really shinned for me was in rough rock gardens and super steep terain. I have some very steep an rough trails around me with some hucks to flat. This is where I test the shout, it perfromed really well in these situations. With the geometry conservation in the steeps made me much more confident the go faster on the very steep bits of trail; as well it felt as though I was gaining speed through rock gardens where on my 36 I would either be maintaing speed or loosing it. I am not sure where he got the more feedback in rough terrain, maybe not set up right? he did run low air pressure in the fork. I am 145lbs and I run 160 psi in the fork so that might be where the harshness the reviewer was coming from. As with hucks to flat for me it didnt feel better or worse than a 36 just like a normal fork. All in all the fork is pretty sick and a bit better than a 36 in my opinion.
  • 4 1
 I run 20psi lower than my body weight in my Message and it is as plush as I need it to be.
  • 10 0
 Don't care about the fork, how's that Banshee?
  • 6 0
 Reading the review, it sounded like the Shout was a very nice fork with some advantages over the Fox 36 and Lyrik and some disadvantages while costing 2X as much. The cost is worth it if you value the benefits. Just because it costs 2X as much does not mean it should be better in every way. Compare a 160mm hard tail with 160mm travel dual suspension bike, for example. Both are awesome but both are totally different.
  • 7 1
 I found it odd how Ben's snarky marketing response is a complete 180 from Dave's personality. Weagle used to chime in on forums about his designs, and never has he took the caustic route when a keyboard warrior or armchair bike engineer voiced an opinion or fact. Reading this review, I thought "I wonder how Trust will respond to the opinion of PB". FWIW, in a former life I was a manager or director of marketing for over 10 years, a few positions in the outdoor sports industry, and while I've sent out a few PR and given interviews that should've never been released, Ben's is a doozy.
  • 8 0
 @Banshee-Team titan yet again a fork test mule.... where is the Titan review???? ????????
  • 8 0
 Guess they like the frame!
  • 6 1
 I've been spending some time with the Trust Shout on my SB6, where I usually ride a Fox36 with a Vorsprung Luftkappe. So far, I would agree with the fact that it most definitely does not feel as plush as the Fox36 but what I think should, and needs to be mentioned is that it makes the bike feel so much more stable and controlled! If you want to see how my SB6 looks with the fork, and some POV riding, check out my IG @Swetrail
  • 8 0
 This on a Pole. Show us how slack it can get.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: these pole bikes are sick looking rides.. lot of my friends over in Singapore ride them and they absolutely love them.. .two ride it with that Trust fork too.. excellent reviews so far....
  • 8 0
 @mikekazimer: I threw up
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: you have it on backwards
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: thanks! Looking forward to a ride report on that one Smile
  • 2 1
 @mikekazimer: MY EYES!!!!!
  • 1 0
 1.5m wheelbase, here we come!
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Great, soon i'll need to buy a wide screen to view content on pinkbike? Smile
  • 7 3
 The Porsche Vs. Buick comparison is laughable. Actually, they seem to have it backwards. Only in this case, the Buick (Shout) weighs more, costs double and offers less performance than the Porsche.
Marketing like that is why I don’t like most marketing.
  • 3 9
flag reverend27 (Jan 22, 2020 at 7:05) (Below Threshold)
 It doesnt offer less performance. How bout you just make shit up..oh wait you already did.
  • 4 10
flag vinay (Jan 22, 2020 at 7:24) (Below Threshold)
 Give the marketing dude a break. It is just a free lance general tech marketing guy working from a call center in Pakistan. He probably had the wrong catalog in front of him and was under the impression that the Trust Shout is a car. Give the same guy another call and he'll go "if you want cheap coffee go instant. If you want really good proper coffee then get a Jura. But if you just need shit to go fast then get a Trust."

Don't worry, this guy is not your mechanic. He won't jam a Buick up your headtube when you ask for a more comfortable tune.
  • 2 2
 It's also laughable because Porsche makes very comfortable cars. I drove one for two years and it was the most comfortable car I've owned. I've been in several others and yet to be in one that was uncomfortable by any stretch.
  • 4 0
 The pros/cons list really tells you all you need to know. Expensive, heavy, not the most comfortable, but good on smooth, steep trails, and good in corners. You know what else is pretty great on steep trails and corners well? Most telescopic forks. I get that linkage forks might corner slightly better, but you have to wonder if it's worth the drawbacks. I really want to try one out.
  • 2 1
 @Ttimer: it is significantly different in corners. The whole time I rode one I was asking myself "would I rather have amazing support in the corners, or a plush rode on chunk."
  • 8 1
 @mikekazimer Throw a regular fork on there and tell us what you think of the new Banshee
  • 13 0
 That's the plan - there's a full review in the works.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Hell yeah! Cannot wait to read about it
  • 6 1
 "Smooth Jumps & Flowy Bermed Trails
This is where the Shout felt best."

Isn't that where every fork would feel best? Surely there isn't any fork which feels better through rough stuff than it does on smooth stuff.
  • 8 1
 They should put this on the Marin Wolf Ridge and call it the praying mantis
  • 5 0
 "looking for something that’s soft and comfortable? Get yourself a Buick. But if you can handle high-speed and crave performance, get a Porsche" I believe the Grand National would like a word with you.
  • 4 0
 So its better at and addresses what "we" feel telescopic forks are bad at. But gives up a bit where telescopic forks are known to excell....Sounds exactly like what everyone should be expecting here. Looks like a great product that will succeed as long as the expectations are realistic.
  • 9 3
 That marketing speech at the end... barf throw up. Trying so hard to be cool
  • 11 5
 That response from Trust was immature and confirmed for me that I'll never give this company a dime.
  • 5 5
 Oh, so you were going to buy one but that response is what will keep you from doing it? Right.
  • 2 2
 @Leppah: yes, and I guarantee you I'm not the only one. They need fire their marketing department.
  • 2 0
 @RustySaguaro: in a small company sometimes the marketing dept is doing what they’re told to do to keep their job. If they’re just the messenger then shooting them solves nothing.
  • 4 1
 My theory on the slap down harshness:
On a flat landing with a raked front end the forces going in to the bike are vertical (perpendicular to the Earth) meaning any raked front suspension needs to flex forward (because of it's raked angle) which a telescopic fork readily does underscored by tne Huck to Flat videos, yet the rigid chassis and the rearward path of the Trust ONLY moves rearward, so the Trust essentially doesn't move at all initially on a flat landing.
I'm sure the Trust is amazing when impacting trail obstacles head on where this rearward path is activated immediately.
  • 4 1
 No better way to comment on your review than exactly what Ben Cramer from Trust wrote. 2 Messages and 3 Shouts on my bikes. It’s downright scary to ride a telescopic fork as fast as I can on a Trust. Guess I’ve forgotten how to ride one.
  • 4 1
 I'm with the posters saying they wish it would succeed, but it seems like something is lacking conceptually or in execution, and absolutely in marketing. Don't forget... One of the ENVE guys is a trust co-founder, so they have fundamental roots in the brand identity, cult of you can't afford it with the marketing to match. Pretty dissapointing.
  • 5 1
 Could a sudden harsh impact overwhelm the linkage and force the fork up due to the raked out angle? Might be the reason for the "thwang".
  • 6 0
 That's no different from any fork. Linkage forks are less likely to bind under bending loads than telescoping forks, so it may be slightly less of a concern for a linkage fork. Trust forks aren't more raked out than a telescoping fork, they just look that way because the axle hangs behind / below the chassis, rather than in front of / above it.
  • 2 1
 @R-M-R: I understand what you're saying and in theory it should work that way. The real world results from the tester do indicate a problem though. The rake between headset and top of the linkage is where, if the linkage gets stalled, it would flex. A telescoping fork has the advantage of being more linear. In the highspeed compression videos you see that all force is directed straight up towards the headset until the bottom out where the lesser rake of a telescoping still flexes and the front wheel moves forward. I think a highspeed huck to flat on this would show a more pronounced forward motion.
  • 7 0
 @Powderface: The real-world results are not due to "stalling". The initially rearward axle path of the Trust products reduces compliance on "slap down" style hits, while improving compliance on typical "head on" style hits. Don't be fooled by the visual appearance of the upper chassis.
  • 2 0
 @R-M-R: I'm noticing a trend with your comments. Care to clarify your relationship with the company? Someone else posted the flat landing and clearly shows the fork bending forward. Please tell me how my eyes are lying to me though.

www.instagram.com/p/B558E0rnjV0/?igshid=ee31xvd7l6xr
  • 1 0
 @Powderface: Any fork would bend forward in that situation. I have no relationship with Trust: none in the past, none at present, and none anticipated in the future.
  • 1 0
 @Powderface: @R-M-R
interesting IG post. I don't know though...Yes ANY fork will flex huck to flat, but I'd have to say that Trust flexed a whole lot more than normal forks! Check it!
www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-13-bikes-hucked-to-flat-at-1000-fps.html
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer would I be wrong to say the 580mm A2C is more typical of a 170mm 29 fork rather than the 160mm you mention in the article?
  • 1 0
 depends my Ribbon 160 is 5mm shorter then this fork so it is not a big deal to me. Also fox atc is too short for me didnt like it.
  • 1 0
 Misleading too? linkage forks lose much less of their a-c, Maintaining geometry better, unlike telescoping forks which lose a-c in direct proportion to travel
  • 8 2
 Funny how Moto never went this way.
  • 3 3
 they are working on it
  • 3 0
 @Ghostifari: source...........?
  • 2 3
 @bonkywonky: I've seen different linkage forks on Buell motorcycles for years now. Not to mention what Trust is working on now
  • 4 0
 @Ghostifari: Buell haven't "worked" on motorcycles, much less linkage forks, in over a decade since Harley Davidson shut them down.
  • 6 2
 'If you can ditch your years of Atheism and accept that GOD will change how you live' - heh. Just have faith and hand those dollars over to the church / marketing companies.
  • 9 7
 The fork does not ride like a traditional fork, at all. Think rigid fork that actually will bend and flex over the terrain allowing the tire to track to every inch. It is a really strange sensation at first. What I get from my time on my Message (coming off a Fox 36 that was custom tuned by the guys there), is it all about forgetting your muscle memory learned from riding a telescopic fork.
You need to ride the fork like it is a rigid fork. Stay loose, keep your shoulders level to the ground and steer with your hips. Also, don't put so much weight into the front wheel.
It is here that every negative reviewer is making a fatal mistake. The fork will find its traction in every instance, it is not necessary to put so much weight into the fork to help it gain traction.

Looks aside, I have had my Message for 7-months and am noticeably faster and more confident on it than any other fork I have used. And I went from a 150mm travel bike to a 110mm travel bike (rear) and a 36 to a Message.

The proof to everyone is to get out on a demo and ride it. Set the air to 20-psi lower than your body weight and go ride the damn thing before you say anything bad about it.
  • 3 1
 Different typically has to be groundbreaking otherwise the industry will not accept it. In the bike industry if it weighs more and cost more then there has to be some very significant gains in the performance category..................... Regrettably, I think the reviews speak for themselves. It's too bad because sometimes the entire process discourages thinking out of the box.
  • 4 0
 Betteridge's law of headlines: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.

seems to apply here...
  • 2 0
 Jeff Weed has a video about this fork. his opinion is about the same as the OP. The fork needs to be better than a fox 36 in every way to justify the price. In some ways it perform better and it will react different from a telescoping fork. is it better?
i will stick to my Buick for now.
  • 2 0
 Sounds to me the linkage fork in general is fundamentally flawed. Having it compress smoothly is dependant on the geometry of the landing? No thanks. This re enforces opinions from other reviews. I’ll stick with the telescope fork for now.
  • 2 0
 Pretty rad that Trust Performance has added another option to the mountain bike suspension line up! I enjoyed reading this article (which details some of the finer technical points quite well) and I also appreciate hearing the feedback.

Thought I’d put in my 2 cents since Mike Broderick and I, Mary McConneloug have been fortunate to have the opportunity to test out both suspension platforms by Trust Performance on the 2019 Enduro World Series race circuit.

We raced on the Message (@130mm) for most of the EWS and when Shout (178mm) became available just before the final race in Zermatt - Mike and I were stoked to give the bigger version a try… We both have enjoyed our experiences getting to know this incredible technology. It is quite different from what we knew before…

Both versions of Trust Performance’s suspension platforms are unbelievably durable and the ride characteristics that we have come to love - the stable feel, incredible cornering and traction - leaving us grinning from ear to ear as we fly down the trails. The feel of the front wheel path moving back and up makes it so the bike just hugs to the ground, gobbling up ruts and giving a solid feeling of safety and security.

We found The Message to be a fantastic smaller trail bike fork. The 130 mm of travel was great for most everything we wanted to ride, excelling in bumpy, tight winding, rooty, fast or steep trail conditions. It is well able to pick down most any gnarly chute…and it climbs notably well giving excellent traction on steep technical climbs.

The EWS race circuit holds some pretty gnarly DH sections - with big hits/jumps - we were perhaps a bit under-gunned racing with the Message on some features… (since more commonly Enduro MTB racing requires 150-180 mm of front travel) - So when ‘Shout’ was launched just before the EWS finals in Zermatt, Switzerland, we were super stoked to give it a try!

It was an epic week getting to know our new set ups in Switzerland… We had some huge days out riding - launching, cornering, braking, sliding, climbing - Putting on Shout brought our bikes to a new level of all mountain comfort. We were impressed with how good everything felt, especially on the rugged rocky stair step trails. I guess Plushness is a relative term - because to us, it was. The consistent feel of support and buttery handling on corners alongside impeccable traction turned our days out riding into a flow game!

I love the feeling of control and stability that the Shout provided in this big mountain terrain! I could just let ‘er rip as I made my way down some incredible tracks.

I might be the only female so far who has raced this new product… proud to represent and keen to share the discovery of such a ride inspiring product!!

Congratulations to Dave Weagle and his team at Trust Performance - Incredible that he could dream this up - and then create it into a reality!

BLOG - maryandmikeride.blogspot.com/2019/12/a-product-review-message-by-trust.html

Instagram - www.instagram.com/mikeandmaryride
  • 5 0
 man that Titan though -would love to testride a rune v3
  • 6 1
 Very composed on steep and smooth. So are crocs
  • 2 1
 This is like inventing a new wheel with 8 sides and saying it can compare to a circle. the force on the front wheel is from the handlebars to the axle and is a direct force when needed. Changing this moves the steering forces whilst under load, and therefore should require more rider input into a simple process. We have enough to think about whilst riding, adding some additional variables into the equation is just mad.
  • 2 2
 Disagreed. A lot of the forces also come from your feet if you’re dropping your heels and plowing like you should be
  • 2 0
 @sdurant12: We can agree to disagree then.
Where do you drop your heels to plow!
Heels get dropped under braking, but at that moment you are not massively loading the front (this is a fork review), for the majority of the trail your feet (ankles) should be active but mostly flat.

Probably one of the heaviest loading points coming up at Fort Bill WC track
www.rootsandrain.com/photos/3925416

or a couple of years previous (when I trained for the race) through pinball, low and loading (this section is hard due to how loose it gets as well as a few rocks)
www.rootsandrain.com/photos/2401475
  • 4 0
 Keeping my money until the Dave Weagle Signature Trust Shout 3 is released....that'll crush the competition.
  • 4 0
 You should see the EMoto version he has on his IG page! Looks like 300mm travel in aluminum.
  • 3 0
 @chasejj: for real! I want to put it on a DH sled!
  • 2 1
 I’d be interested to know if the performance is affected by head tube angle. There’s been quite a big shift in the last year or so when things have got slacker. Maybe this fork has been designed around steeper headangles being the norm and then this is causing some of the issues.
  • 2 0
 It is something new and I’m completely for innovation. The problem for me, is just that it is absolutely hideous. I would never knock someone for buying it but looks matter to me. So for that reason, I’m out.
  • 4 1
 I cannot believe a marketing manager would come out with a line like "we're all about riding and making shit for those who like to go fast" for such a premium priced product.
  • 3 0
 An unconventional, super expensive fork that only works for specific types of bumps. I like the experimentation, but hard pass for now.
  • 1 0
 I really want to love this fork, but the reviews match my impressions, so I'm just not destined to ride this fork. Make it supple, point and shoot, not harsh on the landings, and predictable on little hits, then we can talk. Just got a Manitou Mezzer, replaces a Bomber Z1 with Smashpot Coil, feels pretty good so far ...
  • 1 0
 Install on the Dimgronut but spin it 180 because it just seems like the right thing to do please and this clearly proves that there are those in this industry trying get us to look more dorky than we already do with played out ideas cast off from other industries.
  • 1 0
 Excellent review. I applaud the makers for doing something different. Why don’t we see linkage forks all over the motorcycle world. I know there are some but I don’t think I’ve seen one on a motocross or enduro bike. I knew a number of riders that used the Girvin back in the day and they liked how they worked but pivot maintenance was a pain. They wore quickly and those sponge springs on the first ones went fast too. I think we have figured out how to make longer lasting pivots these days and dampers and springs are also very good. This fork looks like a better made iteration of a Girvin. But you know, I had a DVO Diamond on my last bike and with the OTT set properly that fork allowed the tire to stay glued to the ground but the fork had great mid stroke support while allowing full travel. My reading of the benefits of the subject fork is that it will do what I thought the DVO did for me.
  • 4 0
 Clearly you're just not fast enough for it.
  • 6 2
 But how are the footjam capabilities?
  • 6 4
 This thing still looks ridiculous and the fact that it doesn't perform as well as the traditional forks for what it costs makes this even more absurd.
  • 6 6
 Tested it for four months ... really? How many people are employed by Pinkbike to try out bikes and components. One? Two? How can Kazimer test this fork for four months AND simultaneously "test" a dozen of others for their "comparative" plus doing all the other stuff that appears on PinkBike? Be honest and publish time and locations of the tests.
  • 10 0
 @duzzi, as I mentioned, two other test riders helped out with this review in order to put as much ride time on the fork as possible.
  • 7 4
 Doesnt matter it will all be opinion anyway. Pb doesnt do science or really even attempt it. Like i said before lets get this fork on some ews bikes and see what happens.
  • 5 0
 I saw this fork raced to the podium in DS and Enduro at last year's Sea Otter (USA) - at my expense in one case.
  • 2 0
 Just cuz you're a weekend warrior doesn't mean that everyone else suffers the same fate. Mike rides bikes for a living, he had this fork on four different bikes, probably hits the trails with multiple bikes and multiple riders in tow. Don't blame the messenger if you don't like the Message ...
  • 1 0
 @nurseben: sorry just finished a ride and i dont agree with anything he said about it.
The only thing im going to change is send it in to have the rebound sped up.

I've rode it on trails that ive been riding my entire life. There's no confirmation bias going on.

As far as people saying it has gotten all bad reviews that's nonsense.
The feed back I've read is like 100vs3 negative.
  • 4 1
 I’m for the ‘little guy’ and entrepreneur, but I think a Buick handles rougher terrain better than a Porsche.
  • 1 1
 The Porsche comment is idiotic. A Porsche is a superior sports car because they honed the product through relentless improvements over many years. Porsche is the worlds most winningest sportscar manufacturer, as much as I find Trust interesting, they are a long way from that. Have they even made it to the podium in a major race yet?
  • 1 0
 “While there are intriguing elements to its handling, they're not quite enough to outshine the current crop of high-end telescoping forks on the market. ”

Thanks Mike, this ^ is the answer we were looking for.
  • 1 0
 I love that they basically called the PB test riders slow. That will win them cred, slagging the riding skills of all their reviewers saying that they aren't good enough riders to like it. Nice.
  • 1 1
 I wonder if their product testing (and setting of service interval) has involved running one of these forks through a British autumn/winter/spring where people ride in mud and grit for nine or 10 months at a stretch?
Bearings look a similar size to rear bearings used on four-bar bikes, and they don't tend to last a full year IME (Specialized, Transition and Nukeproof all seized).
  • 1 0
 Fair enough a telescopic suspension fork needs more frequent service than once a year so maybe it is doable. It may have just as much to do with the cleaning regime as it has with the riding conditions. It is probably better to leave them dirty than to jet wash them. That said, with people running fenders on regular forks to protect their stanchions, I'm interested to see how caked this compact "close to the ground" linkage will end up after one of your mucky rides.
  • 1 0
 I really question the added straight that it might put on the head tube? Is this just a visual thing or would the increased angle affect the force the HT takes... and likely cause it to sheer more easily?
  • 4 1
 Did she resist to the Pinkbike huck to flat test?
  • 3 0
 Is it anti-dive like the USE fork?
  • 3 0
 Anti-dive: Yes.
Like the USE SUB: Not really. The USE had a lot more anti-dive and the slopes of the curves are inverted.
  • 3 1
 I trust Pinkbike would shout about some snappy performance results if this was linked up with the Grim Donut.
  • 4 3
 The comparison with Porsche and Buick is so lame!
Maybe if this fork was the same price as the market-leaders...but at double the cost...with those looks?!
  • 11 9
 This fork is so off-putting I had to actually un-subscribe from Jeff Kendall-Weed. It just so awful to look at.
  • 12 4
 His facial expressions alone are enough for me to not watch his videos, let alone what suspension he uses.
  • 5 3
 I did the exact same thing! I can't look at this fork.
  • 6 1
 @TheSlayer99: Maybe he rides Trust products to distract you from his expressions! Seriously, though, he's a positive guy with endless style. Who watches bike videos for the rider's face?
  • 1 1
 @R-M-R: positive yes, but it always feels like he’s forcing it. His riding videos are alright but everything else I can’t watch because of his expressions.
  • 3 4
 it's just ugly. like the cannondale lefty. it would have to be sooooooooooooooo much better before i'd ever consider this ugly and expensive fork. I wonder if it would even fit in my rack? i have a 1-up and i think the fork might be in the way.
  • 3 4
 Based on review and photo - i would not by this thing ;

It does not look appealing or usual, also more minuses then pluses;
So far the best improvement in performance for the 160-180 category is to use dual crown fork such as dorado Etc...
  • 5 3
 "Very composed on steep, smooth trails", does that mean not so great on the super gnarly rough ones we all love?
  • 3 1
 That is correct, gnar gnar is a no go, especially with a bunch of repetitive rock hits that come from all sides.

So yeah, works great for steep flow trails, but not great for jumping unless you land perfect.

Maybe there’s an ideal use for this fork but we don’t know where or what it is...
  • 2 0
 @nurseben: That seems to be a useless upgrade for pretty much any well seasoned mountain biker then? Strange.
  • 1 0
 @nurseben: not in my experience. The rearward axel path of the form makes it feel as though you are accelerating through rock sections
  • 1 0
 @ibishreddin: So it's sucking up the hits better? That would be my expectation and perhaps it's the reason Kazimer and company struggled with how the fork responds to impacts. I'm open to this concept, just sitting it out for a while longer, not gonna be an early adopter this time.
  • 1 0
 @nurseben: definately
  • 1 0
 I raced it in the gnar gnar of the EWS in Zermatt - and loved it!!! Shout felt amazing. See my comment below... cheers!
  • 5 2
 Suddenly a Lefty fork looks like a good idea
  • 5 2
 When you look closer, you can see a tear in the eye of the poor banshee
  • 1 0
 Reminds me of a simpler, maintenance-free (mostly) fork:

www.laufcycling.com/product/lauf-carbonara

May not be as much travel but very light and tough as nails!
  • 3 1
 Don’t care about the fork. Want to read the Titan review. Just built one. It’s rad.
  • 3 0
 That Banshee looks great, minus the fork.
  • 1 0
 I will put my TRUST in this linkage fork when they put linkage forks on motocross bikes. For now, the only bike ive seen one on is a 50cc piaggio scoot.
  • 2 2
 I can't remember the last time I read a company response and immediately wrote off anything they'll ever produce. I had already bought my evolink before Leo had his foot in mouth episode.
  • 5 3
 Does looks mean anything? That thing is fugly.
  • 8 0
 I remember hating the looks of the telescopic forks back in the day. Give it time and you will get used to the looks.
  • 3 0
 @fiatpolski: everyone has their own aesthetic. I fell in love with the looks once I put it on my bike.
  • 3 4
 Thought as much. Telescopic forks are that good and that refined its going to be years before a linkage fork will out perform them. By that time telescopoc forks will be even more refined. Plus this looks horrendous!
  • 4 2
 Different certainly means expensive.
  • 2 2
 How much of this dislike is based on unfamiliarity with the fork. Is it just so different that riding it for a year or two would avoid the inconsistency?
  • 1 0
 Sounds like Trust just needs to retune the damper characteristics and this thing will perform very well.
  • 3 1
 that is the ugliest fork I have ever seen and that includes threaded
  • 3 0
 HIDEOUS!!
  • 1 0
 I can believe in Guinness Stout, but heck I don’t TRUST this fork one bit.
  • 2 0
 Twice the cost for 1/2 the performance at extra weight!
  • 1 0
 I can help but to think that the reviews and comments would be more favorable if the fork were $1,500.
  • 1 0
 $1000 and I’d agree, but having just purchased a Manitou Mezzer for $750, I really doubt you’ll get many folks chomping at the bit to buy this fork.
  • 1 0
 Would be cool to have different linkages that adjust anti rise and axel path for different tracks or a desired feel
  • 1 0
 Well yeah, that's a good one. The disadvantage to this fork as I saw it was that most bikes are typically designed around telescopic forks. So if you're happy with the ride, best is to stick with telescopic forks on that one. If you'd like more stability then getting one of these Trust forks on there may set things straight but it is a bit of a gamble. Is it enough, is it too much? So yeah, if there would be custom links to tune a fork for a certain frame then that would actually be nice. Just like you see with rear suspension linkages basically. Heck, the first e-thirteen (another Weagle brand) product I ever saw was a custom link for the Specialized Big Hit so he'll understand.
  • 1 0
 That fork on a Marin Wolf Ridge. Because even the ugly ones deserve to be ridden.
  • 2 0
 I believe PT Barnum wrote us earlier about the buyers of this fork.
  • 1 0
 So what you're saying is that its great if they give you one for free otherwise buy a 36 and some carbon wheels?
  • 1 0
 Absolutely horrendous. I would not put that thing on my bike even if they paid me.
  • 6 4
 Hideous!
  • 4 3
 And for those con reasons.... im out..
  • 5 6
 Love DW’s stuff, want this to be a good product.

But does my eagle eye spy a crack? 4th photo, detailing the compression adjustment. Anyone?

Eric
  • 2 1
 Whoa! Possibly.
  • 7 0
 I think it's just a water streak. My black carbon frame looks the same when I am drying it off and leave a streak.
  • 1 2
 Ya looks like a crack to me
  • 3 0
 @jrich2095:

I don’t think it’s water but upon closer consideration I guess it could be the gloss black from the decals.... sorry!!!
  • 3 2
 @AckshunW: Why the apology? We are all just speculating because it's more fun than work.
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer Would you take a look at the fork and let us know if it's cracked or not? That picture looks like the fork is 100% cracked.
  • 8 0
 @millerstone, it's not. It's an optical illusion due to a reflection on the sticker.
  • 4 2
 No. No it does not.
  • 5 4
 So its not as good as what else is out there cool
  • 5 5
 Even if this thing out performed everything else by miles, I just couldn't look at all day. I just couldn't...
  • 4 3
 Im more interested in the future review of the Banshee
  • 1 0
 Any chance of the Motion linkage fork a review?
  • 4 2
 $2,000 Snake oil
  • 3 1
 Pass
  • 4 2
 Kill this trend already
  • 3 2
 Total bust. Company will be out of business within 12 months.
  • 3 1
 Con: Ugly as all hell
  • 1 1
 PB should have a reading TAB of "just cause you can, does not mean you should" category!
  • 2 1
 You jaws must be super slack to have this on your bike!
  • 1 0
 Would you just post the rest of the Gerd-Damned Grim Donut story!!!!?
  • 1 0
 Long live the Fox 36 grip 2 with a vorsprung luftkappe!
  • 1 0
 It looks like the Titan is set up as a mullet .
  • 1 1
 I think this is wrong, Jeff Kendall-Weed rides one. That must make it the best. He's so cool and relevant.
  • 1 0
 we best get a review of the titan pretty soon, i saw it and got excited!
  • 1 0
 It's just so painful to look at...
  • 1 0
 Pole and Trust must share a marketing department
  • 1 0
 i will trade my 36 factory for one... i want to try
  • 1 0
 "We're all about making shit..." lol
  • 2 1
 SHOUT! SHOUT! LET IT ALL OUT! THIS IS A FORK WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT! CMON!
  • 3 4
 Is it just me or that angle feels like it would split open if you case a landing on the knuckle?
  • 8 8
 How can the looks not be under the 'cons' section?!?!
  • 4 4
 Note to self: rent a Porsche the next time I go offroading.
  • 3 3
 I'm going to wait for the titanium version in reduced offset to come out.
  • 2 1
 No, better means better.
  • 1 0
 video footage?
  • 1 0
 Looks like a session.
  • 1 0
 make it go away!
  • 1 0
 looks freakin awesome
  • 1 0
 In the Mantis we Trust
  • 1 0
 Looks nice to me.
  • 4 5
 And that’s a no from me.
  • 4 4
 No thanks
  • 4 5
 Ouch! Guess someone didn't pay the advertiser fee to PB.
  • 2 4
 In the forth picture, the one where he shows the compression adjustments, it looks like there is a crack? Could be wrong
  • 1 3
 Sure looks like it to me. It seems extremely unlikely that it would be missed by the photographer though, must be some sort of weird shadow.
  • 7 0
 It's not a crack - it's just a reflection on the glossy sticker.
  • 2 2
 Huck to flat?
  • 3 4
 TRUST SHOUT
  • 1 4
 Any Huck to flat vid of this fork?
  • 3 1
 Yep, see comments.
  • 1 0
 Buick to flat?
  • 2 5
 ouch.... guess somebody missed the advertising bill
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