Review: Zipp's 3Zero Moto Carbon Wheels Live Up To Their Compliance Claims

Sep 18, 2019
by Mike Kazimer  
Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review


Light, stiff, strong; for years those have been the ultimate goals when it comes to building up a set of high-end mountain bike wheels. Recently, a different word has been appearing, especially with regards to carbon rims: compliance. It turns out there's a tipping point when it comes to wheel stiffness, and it's entirely possible to have too much of a good thing. Zipp's 3Zero Moto wheels use a single-wall carbon rim design that's designed to allow them to absorb impacts that stiffer rims would transmit directly to a rider.

As the name suggests, the inspiration for the rim design came from the motocross world, where single wall rims are the norm. The 3Zero Moto rim is designed to pivot from side to side around the spokes – Zipp calls this motion “ankle compliance.” Along with creating a more comfortable ride, Zipp also claims this can help prevent pinch flats and rim damage.

Zipp 3Zero Moto Details

• Intended use: trail / enduro
• Single wall carbon fiber rim
• 32 hole, 3-cross lacing
• 37.5mm external, 30mm internal width
• Hub: 4 pawls, 52 points of engagement
• Weight (29"): 1970 grams, 920 front / 1050 rear
• Laid up and molded in Indianapolis, USA
• Lifetime warranty
• Price: $1,999 USD / $700 rim only
www.zipp.com

The rims are laid up and molded in Indianapolis, Indiana, and come with a lifetime warranty. There are 27.5” and 29” wheelset options, which are laced to Zipp's ZM1 hubs and retail for $1,999 USD. That price includes the TireWiz pressure gauge, which allows riders to monitor their tire pressure via a blinking LED light, or a quick look at their phone or cycling computer. The 29” wheelset tested here weighed in at 1970 grams, including valve stems, rim tape, and the TyreWiz devices.


Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review

Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review
Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review
The 3Zero Moto rims use a single wall, asymmetric design, with a 30mm internal width.

Details

We covered the story behind the wheels when they launched back in April, but it's worth taking a moment to reiterate the key points.

As mentioned, the 3Zero Moto rims use a single wall design, as opposed to the box-style profile that's commonly used for most aluminum and carbon rims. It wasn't a quick process to settle on the final carbon and resin recipe - Zipp's engineers experimented with over 112 different laminate configurations and six different resins on their way to creating the final product.

The rims have a 30mm internal width, and a 37.5mm external width. The single wall design does mean extra care needs to be taken to use the correct length spokes, since spokes that are too long could potentially poke through the rim strip. A washer is used under each spoke nipple, and a thin fabric rim strip is placed over the nipples underneath before the wider tubeless tape is applied.

Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review
Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review
Zipp's ZM1 hubs use a four pawls design, with 6.9-degrees between engagement points.



The rims are designed specifically for use with Boost or SuperBoost hubs – the wider bracing angle of those hubs is needed to provide enough lateral stiffness.

The ZM1 hubs use a four pawl design, with 52 points of engagement - that equates to 6.9-degrees of crank rotation between engagement points. There are Hyperglide and XD driver options for the hub, but no Microspline. Riders that are keen on running a 12-speed Shimano drivetrain will need to purchase 3Zero Moto rims and build up their own wheelset.


Photo: Roo Fowler


Ride Impressions

My first rides on these wheels took place in Portugal, where I was able to do back-to-back runs, pitting them against Specialized's Roval carbon wheels. The difference in that case was eye-opening, and made it clear just how much more comfortable the 3Zero Motos felt in rocky, hard-packed terrain. I don't consider the Rovals to be uncomfortably stiff at all, but after switching back to them it felt like I was getting knocked around and pushed off line much more often than with the Zipp wheels. With the 3Zero Motos, the increased traction in rock gardens and chunky corners made it feel like I'd significantly dropped my tire pressure, even though that variable hadn't been changed. That feeling persisted during my testing on the rooty, loamy trails of the Pacific Northwest - the wheels have a way of muting harder impacts and tracking the ground that's very enjoyable.

If there's a noticeable difference between carbon vs. carbon, how about carbon vs. aluminum? Compared to a set of Stan's Flow EX3 wheels that I also had in for testing the difference in ride quality wasn't nearly as dramatic. However, it did seem like the Zipp wheels had a more 'springy' feel to them. It's a tricky sensation to put into words, and it was a fairly subtle difference, but the Zipps felt like they did a better job of absorbing impacts when I was pinballing through really rough sections of trail, a feeling that I preferred.

The one scenario where the 3Zero Moto's performance faltered a bit was in the bike park, on high-speed, hard-packed bermed turns. I had a couple instances where the handling felt vague, similar to what it feels like when an underinflated tire rolls over on the rim. If I was spending the majority of my time schralping berms on machine built trails I'd probably want something stiffer, but that was really the only scenario where the wheels felt on the verge of being too compliant.

Recently, a few companies have released wheelsets with different rim profiles in the front and rear, pairing a stiffer rear wheel with a more compliant front. It'd be nice to see that as an option in the future from Zipp, especially for bigger riders who may want a more precise feel from the back end of their bike. During testing, I found myself installing just the front 3Zero Moto on a bike when I knew I'd want the maximum amount of traction and comfort; wet weather rides on rough terrain being the prime example.


Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review


Durability

The 3Zero Moto rims have survived everything I've subjected them to, including multiple big days in the Whistler Bike Park. Most of the aluminum rims I've spent time on in the park this summer have ended up with at least a small dent or two, or needed multiple trips to the truing stand. With the 3Zero rims, they've barely required any attention other than a couple of minor spoke adjustments. The low profile shape also seems to have the added benefit of not getting scuffed and scraped up as easily as taller rims – there are barely any marks to be seen. I haven't had any flat tires either (knock on wood), despite several big impacts that I was sure would have inflicted some damage.

The bearings are still spinning smoothly, although a tiny bit of play has developed in one of the rear hub bearings. The hub engagement isn't the absolute quickest out there, but it's quick enough that I didn't give it a second thought. If I was in considering these wheels, I'd likely go the rim-only route in order to build them up with a hub that could accept SRAM XD and Shimano Microspline freehub bodies.


Zipp 3Zero Moto wheels review

TyreWiz

It's easy to poke fun at the TyreWiz, and with a $200 aftermarket retail price the “Who needs that? My thumb is all I need...” comments are understandable, but it actually ended up being one of my favorite features of these wheels. Once the desired tire pressure range is chosen using the app, the blinking LED light makes it easy to quickly assess whether or not you need to add more air before a ride. A slow blinking red light indicates an underinflated tire, a fast blinking red light signifies it's overinflated, and green means everything's good to go.




Pros

+ Deliver extra traction, especially in rough terrain
+ Very comfortable and compliant
+ TyreWiz is a convenient feature

Cons

- On the heavier side for high-end carbon wheels
- May feel too soft for bigger riders
- Made-in-USA doesn't come cheap




Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesZipp are rolling down the right path with the 3Zero Moto wheels – they're very comfortable, and track very well in rough terrain. They've also held up extremely well to five months of hard usage. Yes, there are lighter and less expensive options out there, but the single wall rim design does offer tangible benefits on the trail.  Mike Kazimer








221 Comments

  • 273 13
 You all forgot ENVE, which has built in compliance as well. Granted, one time only but still...
  • 12 4
 I see what you did there.
  • 7 0
 Haha! This is gold!
  • 20 2
 Genuine question, has anyone here actually bought these? Or planning to buy?
I keep thinking all these aftermarket carbon MTB wheels are for customers who don't exist.
  • 6 0
 Compliance for "big" features.
  • 2 0
 [ deleted ]
  • 3 1
 @iian: I think most sales come from high-end complete bikes. I have seen a handful of people upgrade to carbon wheels only.
  • 5 0
 @iian: I've ridden these wheels a couple times myself, it feels like you're on rails so to speak. they work
  • 10 2
 yep, I bought a set earlier this year and built them up with hydras - they definitely work as advertised. That said, I couldn’t keep them true for more than a ride, a bit odd for a carbon rim. I ended up swapping the rims out for We Are One unions and have been way happier since. The zipps are remarkably compliant, but felt a bit muted and a wheel that won’t stay true is useless. I’m 175lb and tend to hit things hard, but I was still pretty infuriated that the wheels wouldn’t hold true. If you’re looking for a rim that improves grip and ‘suspension, these do the trick. I wouldn’t recommend them to anyone who rides hard unless that person also lives spending time behind a trying stand after each ride.
  • 4 0
 @RubyRedJed: What kind of nipple were you using?
  • 1 0
 @iian: Not ones for $1999, but I've upgraded to a 1384g carbon 29er wheelset for my xc hardtail for about $1200. So much stiffer than my previous Crest wheelset, and over 200g lighter. They've held up great, whereas I had put a dent in the Crests. I definitely think $2-3k wheelsets are overpriced. Not sure if I would have if I wasn't racing for podiums.
  • 4 2
 @RubyRedJed: This is to be expected. If the rim flexes the tension on the spokes just go up and down at extreme levels. You can't build a reliable wheel out of noodly rims.
  • 4 3
 It has been said that nobody buys carbon wheels aftermarket because the prices are artificially inflated in order to make more money on OEM. Bike manufacturers buy and sell 90% of their product through OEM. Put on a pair of wheels that costs $280 and tell your customers they are worth $2000 and suddenly they are biting your hand off thinking what a great deal that complete bike is.
I don’t know how much truth is in that, but I kind of believe it given how much you can buy carbon rims for on eBay.
  • 5 0
 @iian: I tried them on a friend's ripmo and I'd back the review here. If money were not object I'd love to have them specifically for longer rides where comfort matters.
  • 3 0
 @iian: [REDACTED]
  • 1 1
 @opignonlibre: AH, the good old Mavic 231, extruded from the finest French goat cheese. Good for at least one lap of the parking lot.
  • 1 0
 @iian: the buy and sell ads seem to be full of them
  • 1 0
 What about the side knobs. If the rooms deflect/ pivot, you won't be able to carve hard in soft turns?
  • 2 0
 @RubyRedJed: nice to ear this feeling as there is no word on how they live under power climb and pedaling in general... So, muted... Next!
  • 1 0
 This is a wise man. Well said @jaame:
  • 1 0
 @jaame: I know I’ll probably get called out for this, but I actually used to race real heavily on a pair of aftermarket carbon rims that I got for $400. I had those and a pair of carbon DT Swiss rims, and the aftermarket rims stayed more true, they took bigger hits without any damage, and they felt a little stiffer. So I think there is a lot of truth given what you’re saying!
  • 76 6
 So all this technology and money to get them to feel like alloy wheels? And they weigh more than my Hunt Trail Wide wheels! I am totally not convinced by carbon wheels, the only time I would buy them would be if I was trying to show off how much cash I have (which I don't!).
  • 38 43
flag ctd07 (Sep 18, 2019 at 1:58) (Below Threshold)
 That is the only reason people buy carbon
  • 19 7
 let the roadies buy it.
  • 4 1
 If it had similar compliance to aluminium wheels, more lateral stiffness, and weighted significantly less, I would start to consider spending the extra cash hoping not to have to rely on the crash replacement on race day or when I am way out in the sticks...Until then I will keep running ali wheels, even if it means truing them every now and then
  • 14 0
 @metareal: For the cost of a carbon set, it's easy to have a backup alu set of your choice.

I can have two DT XM 481 laced to 350 (or EX 511 if you wish) wheelsets for the price of a pair of these carbon RIMS. I can upgrade my hubs to 240 and still be under ONE carbon wheelset price.

I don't worry about down time with my two sets of lightweight AND strong alu wheels.

I can also have different tires for diff conditions if I so choose
  • 4 0
 The bike industry at its finest lol
  • 1 0
 @drpheta: or spare rear at least.. snag last year I9 clearance on jenson ; )
  • 1 0
 Totally. These are heavy, expensive, and just feel similar to aluminum rims? The reason I ride carbon is for a bit of extra stiffness, but that's me. My e13's have been perfect for a year and a half now and are $700 cheaper than these. Guess if "compliance" is all that matters these might be good for some folks....
  • 11 0
 I'd go through at least 4 aluminum rims a season. Sometimes destroy one on the 1st ride with it. Typically I ride 28lbs in the rear with a DD Assegai and a Huck Norris. I bought a carbon e13 rim for the rear and it was perfect for a full season. Since then I switched to 29 with e13 carbon rims f/r. No issues with reliability. No cranks, stays true. All of the money spent on replacing aluminum rims should have gone to just getting a quality set of carbon rims ages ago. My brother is on the same bike as me but with metal rims, we just wrapped up a BC trip a few weeks back, my wheels are good. He needed new f/r. His are bent and dented to shit.
  • 2 1
 @Lagr1980: even roadies don't like zipp
  • 1 0
 Since I can't delete a comment from my phone, let me try again. Since this rim "pivots", doesn't it change the grip of your tire & the angle you "think" you're leaning the knobs into the dirt? Seems like you would turn hard, lean the bike to get the side knobs to bite, but the rim is leaning/deflecting so that the center treads are still engaging, which tend to be shorter & have less bite.

Seems like you'd almost need a tread design specific to working with this type of pivoting rim?
  • 1 0
 @bizutch: interesting thought. Yeah, it would make it harder to get your cornering knobs to bite potentially.

Reality is however (I suspect) that almost all wide and shallow rim profiles have some rim "twist" to them. I doubt this is unique to Zipp
  • 1 0
 Nonsense. Carbon lets you tune a rim in a way you cannot tune an extruded aluminum rim. I have the Zipps and have been pounding them through rocks and roots all summer. Zero marks, zero flats even though I run 20 psi and the wheels are true as the day I bought them.

Plus they feel fantastic. Pin point accuracy and no pinballing through the rocks, I dont need any more than that.

Is the increase in performance worth the bigger price point. That really depends on your disposable income. With all high performance parts there is a law of diminishing returns. You can say it’s nothing worth the money, bit you cant say it not better.
  • 60 4
 Oh, where is Paul Aston when you need him....?
  • 57 0
 Doing laps of Finale on alumimium rims!
  • 29 1
 @sewer-rat: on aluminum frames and italian shocks..guy knows a thing or two..
  • 2 0
 What happened to that guy??
  • 14 4
 @Svinyard: He was too honest
  • 4 0
 @Svinyard: I think he works at Nicolai now.
  • 6 0
 @vinay: @Lagr1980 all correct! After five years of testing a bunch of products you find out what is best/what you beleive is the best, then riding other stuff for the sake of testing is mostly a waste of time!

Now I get to ride the best products all the time, it's the ultimate job! I am still testing some other products to feedback and develop with some brands.
  • 2 0
 @paulaston: Sounds great. Plus of course with production in house, Nicolai is probably able to protype and test new concepts right away so this must be a great position to be in. Enjoy!
  • 46 6
 Bottom line: Save your money and take Stan's Flow EX3.
  • 8 1
 Or Newmen SL A30 for 1750g (29er).
As expensive as the Stans.
  • 6 1
 @NotNamed: Or just about any other good alu wheelset. (...Stan's were metioned in the review)
  • 1 0
 Nope.

Buying aluminum might make you feel better about the money you spend, but they aren’t better than these rims. You cant tune an aluminum rim. I actually own them, and I ran aluminum last season, but hey, you read an article, so what do the people who have actually run them know
  • 40 10
 Life is.. Every once in a while.. bending the limits. Widen one's scope and broaden the horizon. Break free from the straight and narrow. Compliance for your freedom. And then it just keeps rolling on... Life, that is... and now back to the bong shed..
  • 11 3
 ...what
  • 3 2
 Yeh, I don't get it either. U wot m8? U trippin? ಠಿ_ಠ
  • 17 0
 @thomaspearson: There was 2 words that explained everything.....bong shed.Get why you don't understand yet?
  • 1 2
 Just say no to drugs and alcohol. Smile
  • 35 3
 TyreWiz? More like Tyre-d Wiz all this cash weighing me down please take my $200 do not pass go am i right folks
  • 18 2
 Everyone's tires lose air so why not just buy an air compressor and a decent pressure gauge for under $200 and plan to air them up each ride.
  • 14 2
 I can definitly see the use of having that if I burp or loose air from my tires on a rid and want to pump them up with a mini pump. Just pump til the light is green and you're good to go! Or CO2 after a fixed puntrure and let out air until the light turns green. Briliant! Never thought about that before this review.

Same with bikepark laps. None of pumps at parks have good manometers, so a TyreWiz would be awesome for consistency.

The price tho... Need to come down to be viable for most. But I guess it will if there's demand and/or competition in the market.
  • 2 0
 @megatryn: Exactly. Half that price and i might buy one!
  • 1 0
 @Marcencinitas: yeah, dosent everyone do that??
  • 2 0
 @megatryn: yeah we all have to air up before each ride. Does the wiz tell me as I’m inflating if I’m in the green? I could see it being useful there. Vs having to overfill and air down with an accugauage
  • 3 0
 A full TPMS kit for 4 tires on a vehicle is ~$50.
I realize they must be customized for bikes plus bluetooth/app programming, but seems like these can and should come down in price. When its $50 a pair I would definitely consider them, seems like a nice convenience.
  • 1 0
 @megatryn: I see the use case...but just bring your own portable gauge in your toolkit...$10-30, goes right in your tool kit.
  • 2 0
 @preston67: proper TPMS are more like $200 for a set of 4. Those $50 kits don't give you an actual reading of air pressure in the tire, they screw onto the valve instead and use the speed of your wheel spinning to estimate how much pressure is in there.
  • 2 0
 @Marcencinitas: Buy a Silca Superpista Digital and be done with it for life!
  • 1 0
 @generationfourth: Danny Hart counts pump strokes. If it’s good enough for him.
  • 1 0
 @radioinactiv: lol...lol..... can you point me to A system that is external that uses speed of wheel spinning to estimate pressure..... Pressure has a relationship to Temperature... but unfortunately not to tin foil hat speed spinning wheels......................I have used both for many years and external sensors are easier for so many things, battery changing, swapping of a faulty sensor and price just to list a few.... my high cost low service internal sensor units are literally junk as the cost to replace the sensors when the batteries ran out was like fitting 2x units to my other vehicles.....
  • 1 0
 @dmanvan23: All of the VW/Audi cars use the wheel speed (ABS) sensor to estimate tire pressure instead of a tpms sensor.
  • 1 0
 @Deeeznuts: and we all know how trustworthy VW is!!
  • 2 0
 @Deeeznuts: true but it is an 'indirect system' , the comment I was referring to was putting external TPMS into that bracket which is NOT true as external TPMS actually sense the pressure and temp of the tyre and transmit signal to the receiver... You can use any one of these cheaper TPMS for monitoring of a bicycle, motorbike... VW system NOT so as bikes dont have ABS ...and too many other variables going on off road to use an indirect type system as well.
  • 1 0
 @dontcoast: I have a digital gague in my tool kit which I bring for races. I've tried having it in my bag which I never ride with and it's too much faff to ever use it unless I'm racing. To be able to get consistent tire pressure regardless of pump, temperature and altitude without the faff is, to me, worth a lot of money.
  • 31 4
 So the alloy ones "needed multiple trips to the truing stand." and the 3Zero rims required "a couple of minor spoke adjustments".......

Isn't this just using different words to say effectively the same thing? Pretty telling if one has to carefully phrase around yet another shortcoming of these ultra heavy, ultra expensive carbon toys.

But hey, after all the budget that went into marketing these rims with their new, cheaper manufacturing process they must get glowing reviews, right? Otherwise big man SRAM (who owns Zipp) might bring out the hose again....
  • 9 6
 PB gotta meet their carbon rim shill quota, can’t have it look like cHeAp aLu rims are as good as the expensive plastic.
  • 30 3
 There’s nothing wrong with needing to true a wheel every so often - it’s rare that a wheelset comes in that doesn’t need at least a little touch up, especially after spending time in the bike park. With the Stan’s vs Zipp, the Stan’s wheels did need more attention than the Zipps.

There are downsides to these wheels, which I clearly lay out in the ‘cons’ section above, but they’re also an intriguing concept. Yes, I wish they were half the price, but I’d imagine they’ll get less expensive in the future.

And @Upduro, I’m no carbon shill. I’ve broken plenty of carbon rims over the last five years, and have nothing against aluminum rims. However, it’s our job to test and evaluate interesting new products, and these wheels certainly qualify.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: I own them and I agree. All summer banging these on the Canadian Shield, rocks and roots, zero rim marks, zero spoke issues. Much better result than my Ibis 738’s last year.

Are they expensive, sure. Does that mean they aren’t good, nope. They might not fit your budget, to you they might not be worth the added cost, but to enough riders, cost is really not an issue, so why the hate. they aren’t being forced on anyone?

Everything you said is what i have been telling people. Fantastic rims.

The biggest issue is the Tire whiz takes too long to connect to your phone.
  • 31 3
 can we get someone who's double hundred pounder to ride this? I think wheel strength and durability test should always be ridden by someone who's big boned.
  • 14 1
 Why ? Many of my friends (who ride at similar speed than me) would be 65/70kg and destroy a set of Mavic EN427 in 2 DH sessions while it takes me a season to end-up with the same result, weighting in at 85kg. I still don't understand how this happens but it does so the weight of the rider is far from everything when it comes to destroying gear.
  • 15 0
 @Balgaroth: ride styles, some people just ride very heavy no matter the rider weight
  • 20 1
 @Balgaroth: The kinetic energy absorbed by the wheels is roughly 1/2*m*V^2, so speed counts a lot more than mass/weight... (nerd comment of the day). But I am with @jdeuce in that "wheel strength and durability test should always be ridden by someone who's big boned" AND fast.
  • 1 5
flag Balgaroth (Sep 18, 2019 at 2:46) (Below Threshold)
 @Davichin: If we consider your formula, Speed is way more important than Mass. If you add riding style in the equation as well (line choice, tire pressure, rider "stiffness") weight becomes almost negligible.
  • 5 0
 @Balgaroth: Yep, that's what I said, but the thing is that big people can also go fast so, being speed, line choice etc the same, someone who weighs 100kg will punish the wheels with 50% more energy than some 65-70kg rider. So, if we are going to test something´s strength and durability, it only makes sense doing it for the worst case scenario, a heavier&fast rider...
  • 2 1
 @Balgaroth: Do you all build your own wheels? Maybe your friends are just bad at it.
  • 2 0
 @Davichin: Call in Greg Minaar. Tell him to ride and destroy the tested thing as fast as possible.
  • 3 0
 @Balgaroth I dare you to hand your wheelset to Kyle Straight and say don't worry, your weight is almost negligible.
  • 5 0
 PB in general needs someone on staff that's more than 160 pounds IMO. they all seem like they were produced in the bicycle racer factory. maybe RC is the outlier here...
  • 5 0
 @jamesbrant: diving weight belts.

All the skinny pb reviewers should be force to wear a 40lb weight belt at all times.
  • 3 1
 @jamesbrant: Maybe people who ride bikes a lot tend to be in shape?
  • 1 0
 @mnorris122: fact is I do but I don't pretend to be any good at it and don't believe it matter that much. I mean aside from getting the right spoke length, everything can be done by a monkey. My friends would have it done by a shop or bought from factory, depending.
  • 1 0
 @Metacomet: Meh, not sure he breaks more wheels than someone like Bruni of Pierron for instance.
  • 1 0
 @Balgaroth: Getting the right spoke length and lacing the wheel are the only two things that can be done by a monkey, as long as it has access to verniers and prowheelbuilder.com. That's the easy part. It's the tensioning that's the reason wheelbuilders (rightfully) charge $60 for their expertise.
  • 1 0
 @mnorris122: I agree with the spoke and lacing as that's how I started lacing wheels. As for tension I always did it by hand and feeling and never had issues even running en427 on a DH race bike. I guess I must be naturally gifted lol
  • 15 1
 Interesting comment regards the weight - I've had these since launch and have been able to ditch the rear pool noodle and still run lower pressures so as a system weight I'm down on my previous 'light' carbon wheels. I thought the tyrewiz were a bit of a gimmick too but since downloading the tyrewiz app on Garmin IQ having front and rear live readings on display is quite handy for those 'oh shit have i burped' moments.
  • 5 20
 ya for those moments its called "look down at your tire" lol you're one of those "more money than sense" guys my mom always talked about
  • 1 0
 Is it true that you're not supposed to run cushcore in these?
  • 1 0
 @scary1: No idea - i think the idea is you don't need to due to the way the rim faces into an off centre impact.

I used to run a Vittoria Airliner and 23-24psi to stop pinches. Im now running the same tyres at 20psi with no pinch punctures.

I've still had a couple of flats from split carcasses for sure just as i did before hand but i think these sorts of flats are actually more likely with an insert as its easier to cut something pressed against a harder surface.
  • 1 0
 Same I have them. Running 20 psi on roots and rock all summer. Zero issues, zero marks, hundreds of smiles!! They track perfectly through the chunder and feel perfect doing it.
  • 18 0
 “Over 112.” So... 113?
  • 19 2
 "... equates to 6.9 degrees of crank rotation between engagement points." Only in a 1:1 gear ratio.
  • 2 13
flag texag (Sep 18, 2019 at 6:55) (Below Threshold)
 uhhhhh, wut? Regardless of the ratio you still turn the cranks the same amount as the wheel, the angular measurement stays the same even if the linear distance is greater on larger cogs.
  • 6 1
 @texag: there's a chain and several cogs with different numbers of teeth in there somewhere...
  • 4 6
 @Mac1987: yeah, with 6.9 degrees of rotation between engagement regardless of which one you're on. The radius of the circle changes with different gearing setups, changing the amount of leverage you have and how fast you can make the wheel spin, but there are always 360* to complete a rotation, and the amount of rotation needed to engage the pawls remains constant, it's just the linear distance that changes.


I'd love for someone to explain why I'm wrong if I'm wrong
  • 5 0
 @texag: you're right in regards to the cassette. The angle between engagement points will remain constant between the smaller and larger cogs. However, because of the gear ratio, a 10 degree turn of the crank will result in twice the change at the casette when comparing a 1:1 gear ratio to a 1:2 gear ratio.
Vice versa, a 10 degree angle at the cassette will correspond to a 10 and 20 degree angle at the crank respectively. 1 tooth at the crank moves 1 tooth at the cassette. A 1 tooth movement in the lowest gear corresponds to a different angular movement than in the highest gear.
The angle between engagement points at the crank can therefore not be calculated without incorporating gear ratio in the equation.
  • 7 0
 @Mac1987: Thanks! I understand now.
  • 1 6
flag clink83 (Sep 18, 2019 at 19:26) (Below Threshold)
 @Mac1987: there's more to it than gear ratio..the same gear ratio in say 50t with a small chaining in front will require more crank movement than the same gear ratio using a larger front chaining and a smaller cog.
  • 1 3
 @Glenngineer: yep. As the radius increases the arc length increases. If you turn a 36t and a 46t the same number of degrees the 46t travels a longer path, irrespective of gear ratio.
  • 4 0
 @clink83: Nope
  • 3 0
 @clink83: Think about what you are saying. A large chainring and a small cog can't have the same ratio as a small chainring and large cog.

Also, nope.
  • 3 0
 I put my bike in the stand. I have a 32t chainring. I put the chain on the 32t cog of the cassette. I hold the wheel and rotate the cranks backwards exactly one turn. The cassette rotates once and clicks 52 times. 360 / 52 = 6.9 degrees of rotation of the cranks per click. I put the chain on the 16t cog of the cassette. I hold the wheel and rotate the cranks exactly one turn. The cassette rotates twice and clicks 104 times. 360 / 104 = 3.45 degrees of rotation of the cranks per click.

The harder the gear I am in the quicker is the engagement when I rotate the cranks through the slack chain between clicks. When I am in a really easy gear, I have to rotate the cranks more befroe it engages, which can be the difference between getting the power down in time to power-wheelie up an obstacle or not.
  • 4 0
 @acali: yea after I went to bed I realized I was mixing concepts up. With a 1x you do move the cranks farther to move up the cog, but not with say a 2x with redundant gears. My brain needs a vacay.
  • 12 0
 Yet another opportunity for Zipp to call one of their rims EddyDoDah....missed. For shame...
  • 10 1
 So Zipp creates a carbon rim that is much cheaper to manufacture, yet still asks premium price. Other good feature is that the rim is so « compliant » that the spokes can lose their tension completely (saw some pictures), increasing the risk of rim tape puncture, and most importantly, decreasing dramatically the fatigue life of your spokes. Brilliant.
  • 1 1
 I'm also curious about that. Compliance is good to a point. If your spokes end up going completely slack because a rim is really compliant, then that definitely is not good for your spokes in the long term. You'll end up with spoke failure.
  • 1 0
 I’ve wondered about that too. I built up a set when they launched, and have about 1,000 pretty rough miles on them, and they’ve stayed true and well tension balanced so far, but only time will tell how they hold up long term.
  • 1 1
 I got reamed in the initial product release comments when I explained this... These rims remove the need for an inner bladder during layup construction and are significantly beneficial to labor time saved, yet they are still priced as premium with no saving passed onto the consumer.
  • 1 1
 @Jamminator: because SRAM
  • 3 1
 "a carbon rim that is much cheaper to manufacture, yet still asks premium price"

Well, yeah.

R&D isn't free. There's a lot more that goes into the cost of wheel than just manufacturing costs.

Brand image and pricing go hand in hand, they're not going to price this beneath what they think they can sell it for or what a product from their brand, with the warranty they have for less than market rate.
  • 1 0
 In my experience they aren't any more vertically compliant in the rim than anything else ive used.

The compliance is meant to come via twist rather than compression with the rim pivoting around the spoke nipple (i built mine - they run a brass washer to accommodate this).

This picture probably explains better than i can.

www.zipp.com/media/images/Ankle.width-800.jpg

Mine did come a little loose initially but then after being retensioned at the recommended levels (115 Kgf) they've not been touched since. Just had a quick check on Strava and done about 180000 feet of descending on them since.
  • 1 0
 @moominator: most wide rims with a shallow profile should twist like this I imagine.
  • 1 0
 Where is your proof on spoke fatigue etc?

Ive actually run them all season, been bomb proof. And yes they are brilliant
  • 1 0
 @BlackPenquinn: having built hundreds of wheels, and servicing hundreds more, I know spokes that are under tensioned (rear: most factory wheels) tend to fatigue and break more often, because they are loaded and unloaded constantly. Very flexy rims unload spokes similarly, though probably less frequently. When spokes go from tensioned to slack constantly, they are more susceptible to failure/breakage related to fatigue.

It's possible however, with these rims, that's not happening enough to cause material fatigue, or maybe they just flirt with the edge of being too compliant. All we can do is speculate here.

It's nice to hear they are working for you. Zipp have some pretty bogus rim technology - like their golf ball dimple rims - glad these MTB rims are working for someone.
  • 7 0
 As someone who actually has a set of these hoops(laced to Onyx), they’re rad. They’ve got a different ride feel to anything else out there, carbon or otherwise. Especially in chunk, they make the whole bike feel smoother and more composed. Think a nice damp crud ski, but in wheel form.

I’m pretty sure they’re going to hold up really well. They’re really thick, and being as flexible as they are, when you hit them hard, they seem to want to deflect out of the way and rebound afterwards. I’ve had a stupid number of rim strikes since I got these and no damage whatsoever, along with zero pinch flats.

They ain’t cheap though, that’s for damn sure.
  • 2 0
 They ride like a stokli then?
  • 7 0
 Definitely enhanced my trail riding experience from the stiff DT carbon wheels I was previously on. Used the 3ZEROMOTO wheels in the whistler bike park and they were fine. They REALLY come to life on narrow, off camber, and technical single track. Stoked on 'em!
  • 6 0
 Mello Bouwmeester had created a similar rim here in Australia, visually I prefer the cross sectional design of the Bouwmeester over the 3Zero, how they compare in reality, who knows, it appears that Mello had left his company behind and now works with Selly Royal in the US. www.bouwmeester.com.au ..putting cost aside and I only ride aluminium rims, I do like the concept of solid carbon rims.
  • 3 0
 I thought that he designed these with another guy. Any one else know more about this? I would have loved a pair of the bouwmeester rims!
  • 3 0
 @NickBit: he (and Jason Schiers) is behind the Crankbrothers Synthesis rims.
  • 4 0
 @Crossmaxx: Correct. And those Synthesis rims are pretty brilliant.
  • 1 0
 @Crossmaxx: ahhh! My bad.
  • 9 4
 @mikekazimer : there is a lot of emphasis on 'feelings' in your article. However if you read Zipp's press material it could very well be that your brain was tricked and you felt things out of a placebo effect.

Did you even tried doing some kind of blind tests by lacing the 3 different kind of rims described in the article on the same hubsets, rims desticked and painted in black and ask someone to swap the wheelsets and record your impression after every lap of the very same loop (doing more than once but not necessarily consecutively on the same rims) ? Unless you have been doing that you could have sent your article to the trashbin it would be the same.
  • 5 1
 What do you think this is, Big Pharma?

Sure it'd be nice to have double blind tests on all these products, but for a free resource it's what ya gonna get. Reading between the lines as you have done is how to further evaluate the product imo.
  • 3 1
 I own a set of these, and the difference between the Zipps and any other carbon rim is pretty unsubtle.
  • 1 4
 @MegaStoke: you've tried them all? You really take your pre-buy research seriously then!
  • 3 0
 @Mac1987: no, but I do manage a bike shop and spend a lot of time trying different bicycle products, wheels included. I’ve ridden on at least a dozen models of carbon rim this summer for instance. Even the ones billed as built for compliance, such as the synthesis are just not the same as the Zipps. Hell, just hand flex a bare hoop and you’ll see what I mean.
  • 1 0
 @MegaStoke: Do you have an opinion if the Zipps are TOO flexy for aggressive heavy riders (#220, whatever)?
  • 1 0
 @IamZOSO: I can’t really weigh in on that one, since I’m 160lbs soaking wet. I certainly haven’t felt even a hint of unwanted flexiness though.
  • 1 0
 @MegaStoke: Thanks for the response just the same.
  • 1 0
 @MegaStoke: Your spokes might have however.
  • 8 0
 Oh boy, nothing lime a carbon rim review to bring out the haters.
  • 2 0
 I do like the look of these and admire Zipp for thinking outside the box so to speak. I have to say they're a mint effort for the first go and look wicked too. I would probably also go rim only and building my own so I could get better hubs with Microspline in an ideal world.
  • 3 1
 I love my carbons rims but what's the point if there as bendy as alloys??
They would have to be Insanely light.

Where any suspension setting changed when switching between. I found I had to tweek the dampening to get the best out of them
  • 3 0
 "It turns out there's a tipping point when it comes to wheel stiffness, and it's entirely possible to have too much of a good thing."

Funny this... Motorsports figured this out back in the early 90's. LOL
  • 8 3
 Tyre Wiz ? Mountain bikers will buy anything.
  • 8 0
 That is actually pretty useful for enduro racing. Much more so than the Zipp wheels. A quick glance at the wheel before/after each stage will tell you if you lost any air. Might save your race if you have a creeping flat or lost air due to burping.
  • 3 0
 I think it's pretty neat. Broken rims happen because there's not enough air in the "tyres".
  • 7 0
 Yes but this is actually a worthwhile gimmick. I used my back up pump last ride - rear tyre was 30psi or so I thought. Turns out they weren't because the gauge is dodgy. Tyre wiz ftw.
  • 11 4
 @Ttimer: Perfect for those times you lose your thumbs during a stage.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: It sure feels like it sometimes.
  • 2 2
 @BenPea: Ha ha BenPea, perfect!!! Been thinking whilst reading down the whole thread, just use your thumbs fools.
  • 1 0
 @Ttimer: solid point. Not every product is targeted at every rider.
  • 2 1
 @mikekazimer
do you know for sure, that the better compliance is down to the rim? not just due to low spoke tension?
i recently rode a rental bike and it felt very smooth, back then i was giving credit to the coil shock for doing great work
but then in a berm i felt the same as you, the feeling of the tire rolling over the rim because of low pressure
i went to the bike shop, they said everythings alright, just ride
at the end of the day i broke a spoke and almost all the other spokes got loose
my situation seems very similar to the sensation you are describing...
  • 3 0
 It’s definitely not a function of spoke tension. I custom built up a set to standard spoke tension values and the ride feel is undeniably different. My girlfriend would notice the difference.
  • 6 3
 Probably achieve the same "compliance" effect by running CushCore/CushCore XC and dropping your tire PSI by few pounds and letting your tires do the "compliance" work.
  • 3 0
 Surely this is a completely different physical effect?
  • 1 0
 @FoggyDH: I think the question is what are we after?

In this case, I think in2falling is right on considering the positive effect of more compliance starting at the tire. The result being more traction.

In this case it seems they are after something else...

"...and made it clear just how much more comfortable the 3Zero Motos felt in rocky, hard-packed terrain."

In other words, rider comfort.
  • 2 1
 For that price, I can definitely find a more cost effective way to improve compliance ... think tires, tire pressure, suspension, etc...
  • 3 0
 Or.. buy a nice alloy rim.
  • 2 0
 It's whether you prefer your wheel or your tyre to feel floppy.
  • 2 0
 I've back to back tested the moto wheels against some E13 rims with cushcore. It's not the same same feeling at all.
  • 1 0
 It pretty heavy doing that. I’ve run the numbers
  • 2 0
 I got a set with King Hubs, on my YT-baller....but, i've been purposefully trying to destroy them, hasn't happened. They are phenomenal wheels that hold up but also ride uniquely well. 2 thumbs up.
  • 1 0
 www.pinkbike.com/u/diycarbonbikes

I have tried the carbon and this guy above does carbon wheels for a fraction of the price..

I rode his cheapest carbon wheels/hubs for 2 years in Colorado and Canada.. 150 rides per year with no problem.. blew up 5-6 tires in the process but the rims never failed... why spend 2k??
  • 1 0
 I can see a major problem after a year with a tyre change when you don't have the right replacement tape and fabric? and also use of your home shop. Having to use two layers of defensive tape and material makes for bunch ups at the sidewall seal areas after degradation of a few months. No mater how hard you try some part of the sidewall gets jacked by the tape especially when its marinating in Stan's or Orange for a long time. I swear by rims with smooth sealed inners it makes changing any tyre a cake walk. Last season in Jamaica I had a bike go down due to an unsealing Stan's rim that had exposed inner nipples. There was sealant in every hole when I dissected the rim at home in Toronto.
The tape would not hold even after changing a few times and using alcohol to clean the rim up. I gave up and was down a bike for the 1st time and imho was caused by that aggravating hoop. Sealant has it's own way of getting into everything.
For 2K I expect a smooth sealed inner rim at least 28mm wide and smooth as a baby's ass that seals with a floor pump.
  • 1 0
 Through these on my hardtail and they are great! Surprised to hear some much hate for these rims. They are not cheap, but since when are bike parts cheap when your buying high end products. $250 cnd foam tire inserts and these get the hate. King rear hubs are over $1000 cnd for the rear alone. Great product, made in North America! I love all of this but the price.
  • 4 0
 We Are One is like, uh huh.
  • 1 0
 I imagine the front is most of the business. Does the hub have torque caps? There isn't much of a center channel to mount the tire. There is nothing smooth or flowing here and being less battered while holding a line, as if.
  • 1 0
 After riding I9 carbon Enduros for 6 months. I went back to alloy. DT Swiss EX 511 and the ride quality is actually a lot better. Sure they are 300g heavier but after a ride for two , I don't even notice the weight
  • 2 0
 These are the best wheels I've ever ridden, hands down. With a lifetime warranty just ride the f#+k out them and replace as needed..
  • 2 0
 Somebody explain, please:
how do you place a tubeless tape on that rim? Nipple heads don't mess around??
  • 3 0
 A rim strip over the nipples and tubeless tape over the rim strip.
  • 2 0
 @kwapik: that's .. uhmm..
Would be interesting to see some photos or better video of installing tubeless on these rims..
  • 2 1
 RTFM
  • 2 0
 @jasminov: I agree, looks like a nightmare to get those to seal.
  • 1 0
 @jasminov: I was a bit dubious of that solution as well, but they were super easy to tape up with their provided rim tape, and they haven’t given me any issues in ~1000 miles of use.
  • 1 0
 @MegaStoke: ok, but, if you have a hard flat drop - wouldn't some of nipples move a little bit 'upward' causing troubles for tape?
  • 1 0
 @jasminov: like I said, I was concerned about that too when building them, but haven’t had any issues so far. The Zipp provided rim strip that goes between the tape and the nips is pretty burly.
  • 1 0
 @jasminov: They set up the exact same as any other rim that allows for setup with a floor pump.
  • 1 0
 @skelldify: Super easy in fact. Mine set up with a floor pump, and I did not have to max out the tire pressure to seat the bed.
  • 2 1
 Zipp is sort of known for putting sub par bearings in their road wheels. Good to see they are continuing the tradition in their mountain bike wheels as well.
  • 2 0
 The hubs are sram hubs...
  • 4 1
 is that sealant leaking out, or tire wiz?
  • 3 0
 ***rim shot***
  • 1 0
 At least the Tyrewiz looks less obvious as it's been designed for the Moto rim, the version available for everyone else just looks crap.
  • 1 0
 The Tirewiz thing sounds helpful! Would the weight at one point on the rim create imbalance issues (fast wobbles) when rolling at high speeds?
  • 1 5
flag nurseben (Sep 18, 2019 at 10:28) (Below Threshold)
 Come on, you can't be serious, do you not know how to tell if your tire pressure is okay?
  • 5 0
 @nurseben: I find it tricky to tell. Congratulations for being gifted with tire gauge hands.
  • 1 4
 @cedrico: Gifted or practiced, it's kinda like sex, some of us just do it better... so maybe you could practice more?
  • 3 0
 @nurseben: I probably could. I could also practice feeling air temperature until I wouldn't need a thermometer, or I could just buy a f*cking thermometer.
  • 2 1
 At last bike industry looking for a real other industry like motorbikes, keep watching guys !, maybe found the mystery of the rear suspension they use, du !
  • 2 0
 sounds like crank Bros got it right then with the two different rim profiles
  • 1 2
 @mikekazimer

"I found myself installing just the front 3Zero Moto on a bike when I knew I'd want the maximum amount of traction and COMFORT" do you mean "comfort and STIFFNESS"? You say that these wheels are comfortable but that you'd swap to a different wheel if you wanted comfort.
  • 1 1
 I'm by no means anti carbon and run a set of carbon rims, dt350 hubs. I don't understand paying that much for a set of wheels that are intentionally made to feel like their much cheaper counterpart and weight just as much.
  • 2 0
 Cheap carbon wheels are not flexy from my experience. I like my 3Zero rims a lot. I was not a huge fan of the Sram hubs, so I laced them to 240's.
  • 1 0
 Waiting for the 26” crowd. Anyway, Amazon is having a sweet deal on 26” Magic Mary’s.
  • 2 0
 Too bad my wallet does not comply.
  • 9 0
 You should look into carbon wallets for increased compliance.
  • 2 0
 Any time on the 3Zero Moto with CushCore inserts?
  • 2 0
 The variety of carbon wheels can only mean big market, big margins.
  • 3 0
 700$ rim only. Wow!
  • 1 0
 So they feel like alloy rims. Weigh more than alloy rims and cost over twice the price of alloy rims. So why?
  • 1 0
 Degrees of rotation at the cranks is dependent on gear ratio. Give us degrees of rotation at the hub, please.
  • 1 0
 2000 dollars for about 2000 grams of wheels ain't so good... they better ride compliant AF!
  • 1 0
 What I got out of this . . . buy a set of Stans Flow rims for an equivalent wheel set that costs way less - but I knew that.
  • 1 0
 I'm sure it has been explained somewhere but I'm real curious why they weigh more than a comparable alloy wheelset.
  • 1 0
 Alternatively, you can just wrap your aluminum wheels in carbon fiber print. Bragging rights AND flex!
  • 1 0
 It would be.nice.to have a guide of.how.to.build.good wheels.on.a budget. Good aluminum rims J bend spokes 32h hubs
  • 1 0
 Sounds like they'd be a good option for an aggressive hardtail...
  • 1 0
 Who else is already tired of hearing "Not available with Microspline."?
  • 1 0
 Gee should use these to soften the trail a little.
  • 1 0
 It will be a big nop!!
$2000?
You mad bro?
  • 2 2
 Dunno about all the technical chatter.. but they look rude!
  • 1 2
 Frakkin dollar rims. For 600 euro I got a pair of Newmen SL.A EWS edition. Less than one replacement rim.
  • 1 0
 Out of stock everywhere though
  • 1 1
 Hopes to Spank, doggggggggggggggggggggggggg
  • 2 1
 WE ARE ONE!! thats all!
  • 1 2
 These also weigh just as much as aluminum... but make me an ambassador and I will ride them
  • 1 1
 ACS, bring back single wall nylon rims in MTB sizes! Yes! Include 26
  • 1 1
 Rovals are the biggest pieces of crap out there.
  • 1 1
 I'll keep rolling on We Are One Rims!!
  • 1 3
 Tried carbon, rim crumpled in a moderate rock garden. Back to strong alloy wheels for 1/3 the price.
  • 2 5
 Just more ocean fill
Below threshold threads are hidden

Post a Comment



Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.043856
Mobile Version of Website