Rocky Mountain responds to your questions.

Apr 21, 2010
by Tyler Maine  
Rocky Mountain's Alex Cogger takes a moment to reply to all your questions in regards to the all new Rocky Mountain Slayer 70 that we first featured at the Sea Otter Classic last week. He explains everything from the visual looks to how the suspension works.

Video inside,View the initial world premiere of the Slayer 70 here.

Views: 10,005    Faves: 7    Comments: 5




Rocky Slayer Pricing:

Slayer 70 $4799 CDN, $4599 USD

Slayer 50 $3799 CDN, $3699 USD

Slayer 30 $2999 CDN, $2899 USD


www.bikes.com



115 Comments

  • 29 3
 WOW!!!! THAT, is exactly what every company needs to do to quell the masses and educate the new guys out there. Very impressive Rocky.
  • 4 1
 Very much agreed!
  • 14 5
 Ok, I don't know how technically different it actually is from a giant reign but the fact that these two bikes look generic and similar now is just wrong. Where are the Rocky mountian paint jobs? the bright flames or the Fighter plane? where are the glorious CnC'd parts, the drilled holes? the gussets?
Yeh blah-de-blah it works well now and its light and it goes uphill, but I don't want that. I want it to be heavy, colourful and with maple leaves and canadian flags on it and dripping in syrup
  • 1 2
 giant doesnt have a linkage below or above the dropout and the slayer does
  • 3 1
 they should give some syrup with the bike! Razz
  • 3 1
 I could always send you some of my extra maple syrup if you would like Wink
  • 7 1
 browner, that was a great comment. It's true though, how many older rocky's were sold on looks and "Canadiana" alone?
I'll tell you, because I sold Rocky's for 5 years: a lot.
  • 4 0
 Whaddya think's in the fork? Jeeze...
  • 1 0
 browner +1 cheers!
  • 6 0
 I like how some people are calling this design "generic" or similar to other bikes. I'm not trying to take away from the slayer here, i'm just happy bikes like this are almost considered common and the sport has progressed to being this awesome!
  • 1 0
 Well it would be awesome if they were reasonably priced
  • 3 0
 There's alot of great bikes in the market place. Each manufacturer is trying to get to the same destination. They just taking different routes to get there. Test ride the bike and see if it suits you. If it does, buy it. I like Nike (fashion / brand positioning) but I wear New Balance (Fit). Bottom line.. you should buy what feels best to you and your style of riding whether it's a Trek or a Specialized or a Rocky.

Keep it in perspective. Look at the shit designs we used to ride 10 - 15 years ago. Lifes good. Ride your bike.
  • 1 0
 "Look at the shit designs we used to ride 10 - 15 years ago."

Amen brother! And remember how much they used to cost?
  • 5 2
 (continued from previous post)
Also, chainline changes significantly based on what gear you're in, so despite the somewhat Ellsworth-esque claims of the lower link "always" being parallel to the chainline, that is also obviously untrue - not that it matters because the theory that chainline being parallel to the lower link alone will impart no extension or compression force to the suspension is flawed anyway. Braking performance is a factor of instant centre position relative to wheelbase and the height of the centre of mass. Basically, it's the same old marketing filler-talk the bike industry has given us for the past 20 years. There is nothing legitimately innovative in the suspension design in my opinion.

However, in fairness to RM, the bike does look really cool, it's great that they've considered the option of reservoir shock mounting along with water bottle mounting, and I'm sure it's great fun to ride. The geometry looks good, the suspension will do its job (small imperfections aside - let's be honest, it's not a big deal despite my big rant) and I don't doubt that anyone buying one would have a sick time on it, regardless of the marketing spiel.
  • 1 0
 Listen up Socket - and watch the video AGAIN.

He flaps his hands near the chain THEREFORE THIS BIKE IS TEH AWESOME. For the reasons he gave. And so much more awesome than all those other bikes that it looks like. It just costs more, which is OK too.

Hi Alex :wave: glad you're kicking ass.
  • 3 0
 D-smack: Thanks for TEH AWESOME reference. It was missing.

*flap flap*

RE: axle path etc. Yup, you're right, axle path doesn't vary all that much, and chain torrque line was averaged out, as noted somewhere above.

You are right in all your points. I should have said "more parallel more often" rather than "always"...
  • 3 1
 Either the guys at Rocky are very brave or very stupid coming on here to answer questions of which 90% must be asked by total morons.

Congrats on the bike guys. Definitely looks like a step forward in overall design. If the BB height isn't too high I might get one for the wife. A degree slacker HA and I might get one myself Smile
  • 2 0
 I'll take... Brave?

Wink

It IS a fine line...
  • 4 2
 Sorry but the suspension explanation was flat out wrong. The angle of only one particular bar of ANY 4-bar linkage has no bearing on motion of the axle. The axle path NORMAL line is what you should be looking at, not the angle between chainline and a single bar of the suspension. That theoretical detail aside, the actual axle path you get from that layout will be very VERY close to circular, ie that of a singlepivot, so claiming that it's better than Trek's ABP or FSR (which also almost always generates a damn-near-circular axle path) based on that is also incorrect. For all intents and purposes the ride characteristics that you can achieve with the "smoothlink" layout are pretty well identical to both ABP and FSR. Whether the pivot is above, below or at the axle makes surprisingly little difference to axle path (and thus pedalling characteristics), because the distance between that pivot and the axle is extremely small relative to the distance between "horst" pivot and main pivot, and the angle between chainstay and seatstay links changes very little and at quite a low rate. How do I know? Because I've mapped it out (download Linkage from www.bikechecker.com and check it yourself).
(continued next post)
  • 1 0
 Not sure how it performs under braking. Yes it could perform realy good under pedaling over bumps. Yes function over fashion, always. Dont get fooled if one bike looks similar to another - ITS WRONG. But lets get serious, every design is a matter of compromise and it only matter how it suits YOU. Let riding do the talking !
  • 1 0
 the more I look at this new slayer, the more I'm stoked... its actually super clean design and BOMBER pivots (can the look a likes say that, eh??). And the new smoothlink, realize they evolved the 4 link from the horst or whatever the other 4 links are called. To be better. I'm with Alex, and I don't even know the guy. (see you in Garda, we'll have a few beers, eh!).

Ja someone mentioned the brakes, thats the only unknown for me... as I have a 2006 slayer 70 and she jacked hard especially how I had the RP3 pumped up 5-10psi over. My 2009 remedy, she has the nicest all around rear end any man could ask from an all day ripper! But I know this gen slayer is better... the days are numbered for my rem, and I didn't even get to know her so well....
  • 1 0
 I couldn't edit my post... the brake jack was the same no matter the pressure in the RP3... I pumped it up a bit for pedaling up mix of dirt roads / trails.
  • 1 0
 if i'm remembering correctly here, the reason why FSR is a good climber is because the chain tension keeps the suspension from playing out while under load. so if my thinking is correct here, this is going to pedal worse than an FSR bike since there is no chain tension to keep the suspension under control while climbing. correct me if i'm wrong here...
  • 1 0
 The problem there is it works both ways... If chain tension KEEPS your suspension from bobbing, when it DOES move, it jerks your pedals... Ever ridden a VPP bike in a granny gear?

Awesome bikes, but VPP relies heavily on chain tension. Works great in the 32 (which it was designed for) but starts to act up in the 22. Try a VPP bike w. Hammerschmidt! All day in the 22.
  • 1 0
 sure .. they design and explain great bikes, but can they hang a sign? or stand one up? NOPE, their handy skills seem to be lacking just a touchWink I SURE HOPE THE TALL BLONDE GUY isn't in the engineering dept.... or we are in teeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrouble!
  • 2 0
 Sign hanging: not our forte.

Don't worry, he's a marketing hack.
  • 1 0
 Recently tried the Slayer SXC and loved it for both up and down, and looks like this will be an improvement in several ways (besides the agressive looks in my opinion but that's secondary and I'm not too keen on the cable routing..)

Curious about the patent pending "Straight Up Geometry" though - what makes it different from other bikes with similar geometry and exact same seat angle (i.e. Trek Scratch at 66degHA/75degSA or Spec Enduro at 66.5degHA/75degSA)?
  • 1 0
 Fine looking bike! I love the paint job (much nicer then the current Slayer paint jobs). Just wondering, why was the announcement about the new design made so early in the season? Isn't Rocky worried no one will want to buy the 2010 Slayers? When can we expect the 2011 Slayer to go on sale?
  • 1 0
 artt: I have Slayer SXC (09) and have about 500 hours of heavy duty XC riding on it....half of it with a coil rear, 180mm fork up front doing full on BC bikepark runs, epic multi hour XC with a shorter fork, moderate jump trails with the 180 fork (Shore, Island, Interior BC). Albeit I haven't done any large drops to flat, but 6-8 feet to transition at speed. I consider it my XC/Mini DH bike... Frame has held up well, but the 09 has a slightly more substantial chainstay than yours. I consider myself a fairly smooth rider, but I have been known to be a hack on some trails.

Seat tube crack? Have a long enough seatpost extending past the TT?
  • 4 4
 boomforeal: I think you do have a point but by focusing solely on the parity marketing you overlook many other aspects.

Because bikes are expensive and often a passion, the buying process is most of the time a high involment one which suggest that people have a certain level of knowledge on what they are going to buy. Rocky has addressed most of the critics that the former Slayer had and it just so happens that the bikes "looks like" another brand. Rocky can easily overcome this point in a marketing perspective by saying "function over look".

Also, people are going in boutique and get to talk to a salesperson prior to buy their new bike. This is a critical point where the buyer will be educated on how different the Smoothlink is compare to Maestro or Horst link bikes.

Finally, I agree with you that people on discussion forum will give some credit to other brands for the desing but I you would still have to convince me that will translate into a direct negative effect on sales. A good example is how people used to say that Trek with their ABP "looks like" a horst link but at the end of the day Trek has now a pretty successfull line-up in term of sales.

Just my perspective, thanks,
Lp
  • 2 3
 great points. but i don't agree that you have to sacrifice form for function. look at the new ibis mojo - they let a designer with no bike experience go crazy designing a unique frame, and then tweaked it to get all the functional attributes they wanted. function, reputation, information - all these factor into a buyers decision, no doubt. my comment was mostly aimed at the fact that buddy spent so much time addressing the "lookslike" comments when there was no point in doing so. he should have focused on the positives and unique attributes rather than answer critics on an issue where, with this bike, i think rocky's just going to have to take their lumps. in marketing, once you start playing defence, you've lost.
  • 3 0
 Did you not watch the video? He did focus on the positives of the design, as well as the unique attributes. The fact that it looks the same as some other companies bikes, does not mean that it performs the same. He wasn't playing defense, he was addressing the questions that people like you had. There was a point in making this video boomforeal, and I don't think you understood any of it.
  • 1 0
 I wanna ride that bike! Perfect seat and head angle plus ISCG tabs! But I'm not sure I wanna own one: I need to like the way it looks, and this one looks a bit sad. I guess I'll keep my Slayer for at least another year.
  • 1 0
 That was well explained...but as someone who rides a 150mm trail/am bike as my main rig, I agree with Slacker head tubes on bigger bikes, but really steep seat angles with really slack front ends feel really weird.
  • 1 0
 Give it a whirl. There may be a Rocky demo near you, you can try an Altitude (Slayer will be at Fruita Fat Tire next). Also, Marzocchi has a full demo fleet of Rockys. They will be hitting up a bunch of events, so you can try their new suspension on our frames (Element, Altitude, Slayer SXC, Flatline, Altitude 29).
  • 1 0
 You seem like a well informed individual, and I'd love to demo one of these rigs, but shops in Marin aren't to fond of stocking demo rigs. I still find it odd climbing my banshee with a 67 front and 71 seat. Much appreciated that you responded. Canada RULES!!!!
  • 1 1
 Great response from Rocky.
I love the 75/66.5 angels, that sounds ace for AM riding.

As for the Air vs coil argument.
I have both on my bikes, for me the Air is a fit and forget shock, I have had a couple of Dhx5.0's and a RP23. The coil (I have a Dhx5 and Vivid, I can break in no time at all).
It is important to remember that many XC guys with air shocks will use the full travel of the shock for 5 hours plus every Saturday and Sunday, as well as several rides of 2hours plus during the week, so that is well over 10 hours ride time a week, sometimes for 2 or more years between a service. Now we are up to 1000hours ride time in a couple of years between a services.
Now how many minutes ride time do you get out of a coil shock between services?
  • 1 0
 Quite a long time actually lol. my old rocco RC went 4 years without a service, when i did finally service it, it had that buttery feeling, but when riding there was no noticable difference in performance. As for you breaking DHX5s and Vivids, I'd say you need to sort you're riding out... shocks dont break as a general rule.
  • 1 0
 I had a Rocco too..... lasted a few weeks before it was squeeling like a pig :o)
As for my riding, it is all about improvement, I guess it is great that you have seen my riding/results etc. to make that comment.
www.pinkbike.com/news/Empire-Test-3-2009.html
www.pinkbike.com/news/SDA-Round-2-2009.html
Search for John Young
  • 1 0
 Chesty cam video on my local track for your referene.
www.pinkbike.com/video/128043
;o)
  • 1 0
 Sorry, I didn't mean that comment in a malicious way, just you dont hear about many breaking. Change the ... to Razz and you get what i ment.

Sorry again, Craig
  • 1 0
 the old design was way sicker, it was like nothing else on the market, i understand the climbing aspects, but come on couldn't you have just improved the old design a little bit.
  • 1 0
 We tried. And tried. And tried. Just couldn't make it light / stiff enough, and we wound up with a weird suspension rate when we tried to build in SmoothLink.
  • 1 0
 I've been completely stoked with my old Slayer SXC, this looks like a sweet ride, a seat tube angle that'll let you ride up, and a head angle that'll let you descend. Looks like a perfect Fro-ride bike to me!
  • 1 1
 Interesting. Definitely has some Giant styling. Suspension isn't a horst link, ha. Silly bike companies moving a pivot point a few centimeters and giving it a new name. Wonder if they are licensing the suspension design. Still it looks nice, and if rides well who cares.
  • 2 0
 We aren't licensing: falls under our patent (US:6,843,494). And we ain't licensing it to anyone else for now either. We know of at least one infringer...
  • 1 1
 i would never get a slayer again. i cracked a frame in the seat-tube weld, and it was like pulling teeth to get rm to honor the waranty. rm finally did after i threated them with my imaginary lawyer. the bike is great when its up and running, but the company doesnt seem to back up its product.i have a 2006, this new one is probably just as flimsy(lite weight). the seat tube looks just as lonng and unsupported as past models(snap into a slim jim).im a 195lb xc rider who likes to keep rubber to the ground and i doent think i abused my ride like rm said i did. buyer beware! ask lbs, rm has a rep, hopefully they will change it. kona rulz!!
  • 1 0
 I had a 5 year old 2 month Slayer with a BB that was ovalized. Yes - ovalized. It was warrantied - no questions asked. I bet you'll find lots of happy RMB customers out there
  • 3 3
 Very awesome. Liked the old design better.. however, less fragile parts. (i.e Carbon fibre seat stay) Always really preferred this look as opposed to other linkages on different designs.
  • 2 0
 Where can I get one of those northface jackets with the rocky mountain logo on it, Im diggin it!
  • 3 1
 getting sponsored by rocky mountain is your best bet...
  • 1 0
 well thats probably never going to happen lol.
  • 2 0
 These bikes are astonishing,probably designed by Chuck Noriss's inspiration.
  • 1 0
 This shape of frame is common because its effective, simple as that. Its awesome that rocky answers thier critics, theres not alot of brands that would do that.
  • 3 1
 Reminds me of the GIANT REIGN, looks a hell of a lot similar
  • 6 1
 hmm, thats like saying your girlfriends titties look like my girlfriends titties... but guess what, my girlfriends titties are real!

I gotta break the silence. Ride the bike. Realize the parts are way smarter than the older models (317's suck, juicy's were good in the 90's... wheels and brakes and suspension are about the most important pieces on a bike - This slayer has it dialed) and the idea of making the bike better to ride UP and DOWN with this new 4 bar design, and you're complaining it looks like another girl you know? common! Do something, go to Giants webpage, put up a reign x and keep a page open from pink with the new slayer, then split your screen with the pages -> look left, look right, look right, look left... they ain't so similar.

Rocky has built a bike to ride all day, and and capable of most things most of us can ride. If the bike can't handle it, you need a different bike. If you can't handle it... whats next?

I've got a 2009 remedy that I swapped out the wheels, put formula mega's on it, and a deus crank (xtr is too bling for me) and now look - this slayer is dialed.

Ride on!
  • 1 0
 It looks like all others: Trek, Giant, ............................????
Where is the special Rocky-Style?
  • 2 1
 In the Suspension, Geometry, Ride Quality and Details. And a Maple Leaf or two.
  • 1 0
 Try to read and listen "bikersinn".

Fantastic looking bike! Would love to try it out!
  • 2 1
 Does this mean there may be a new Slayer SS coming soon??????
  • 1 1
 who knows... but if so... then... SS will be a God's bike!
  • 2 1
 I'm glad another company has figured out the best way to design a pivot.
  • 1 0
 Hahaha, loving the subtlety of this comment. But honestly, how many companies lay claim to having the best and most efficent suspension design...
  • 1 0
 Ha ha someones phone is ringing.
  • 1 0
 I wish it came as a frameset!
  • 1 0
 It will... Slayer 70 (ano) finish.
  • 1 0
 Awesome, it will be in just (ano) finish?, and which will be the approximate price of it?
  • 2 0
 Yeah, Ano finish only. But you'll notice that unlike every other ano bike I've ever seen, instead of laser etching the name in, we've included some color / graphics. So looks like a std paint job, but get the weight savings of ano...
  • 1 0
 is it coming with a fox 180 talas? if so that is a damn fine bike...
  • 1 0
 Wade tested with a 180mm fork, and it jacks up the Geo too much. You wind up with a 15+" bb and a 63 deg HA.

Built for a 160mm fork.
  • 1 0
 good job guys, looks awesome and well done
  • 1 0
 so are they using this design for their slopestyle platform?
  • 1 0
 I think if u ask a good question u should get one for free
  • 1 0
 165 ain't half bad.......
  • 4 3
 That's awesome !!
  • 4 4
 SYSTEM EVO BY TREK copy.. copy ...
  • 2 2
 Except for the Full Floater, pretty much yeah.
  • 3 2
 Trek: ABP. Pivots are ON the rear axle.
Rocky: SmoothLink. Pivots are ABOVE the axle.

Why does this matter?

CHAIN TORQUE. If the swingarm and the chain torque line aren't parallel, you get bob / kickback.

Trek can't use FSR. Nor can they use SmoothLink. What's left? ABP or Single Pivot. Wheel Path is single pivot, but it decouples the brake. So It brakes like an FSR and SmoothLink bike, but suspension is Single Pivot. The rate varies though, thanks to the full floater. So it feels more bottomless. But wheel path is still Single Pivot.
  • 1 0
 Hey Alex, is the chain torque only a factor of pedaling or also braking? The chain can have tension when brakes are hit hard...so any influence? I have more bob with the remedy than I do with the old slayer, but I also can compensate with the RP23. Brake jack I can't compensate.
cheers!
  • 1 0
 Chain torque doesn't really affect braking (unless you are pedalling at the same time. Which, hey, if that's how you roll)... Has mostly to do w. brake position vs pivots. The only reason chain gets tension is because suspension is jacking.

It's a bit chicken vs egg, but mostly no chain torque effect.
  • 2 0
 Surely the swingarm and the chain torque line are only parallel in a couple of gears - which gears?
  • 1 0
 We averaged it out to the most common gear combo. I can't remember exactly what it is? 32/26? 32/24? Based on field experiments, looking at how much time we spent in which gears.
  • 1 0
 nice
  • 1 1
 4799 for a bicycle is a bit retarded
  • 1 0
 Fromme Killer!
  • 1 1
 looks like a Mondraker Factor...
  • 1 0
 Nice bikes I want one!!
  • 3 4
 wow, sounds pretty sick
  • 7 3
 looks like they think about everything
  • 6 0
 yea thats awesome that they actually address the consumer like this, i defiantly heard a blackberry lol made me think mine was going off
  • 5 1
 don't want to complain but... I've never saw a water bottle on a AM/Enduro rig! Only camelbacks etc are truly reasonable in this sport!
u say it looks like 100 other bikes, e.g. Giant. For me new Slayer looks like an Altitude which was before new giants, so in this case - Giants looks like Rocky Altitude or Slayer.
btw I love the shape of tubes! the bike looks so smooth...
could be some red canadian maple leaves painted...
  • 2 2
 i have never defiantly heard anything in my life. next time i am at sea otter, i'll try.
  • 12 0
 ukal. It's nice to have waterbottles on AM rigs. Examples are mostly Canuck bikes but the Norco LT (long travel) series, Fluid series have them. Lots of locals asked for this. Canadian trails tend to be so technical many of us ride AM, long -travel and even freeride bikes on long trails (30 - 40 - 50 km rides. You can use the waterbottle for energy drinks (sometimes its nice to just have water in the backpacks and bottled drinks). Good to have waterbottles too for batteries for night-lights. SOmetimes when you just go for shorter rides too and don't want to bother with the pack you can just stick the bottle in there. Props to Rocky for putting in water bottle cages
  • 2 0
 What Lee said. one of my most memorable rides last summer was a 7hr, 70km Alpine epic. Without bottles, I would have been screwed. And that was with a 3L Camelbak.
  • 3 0
 lee, u said about shorter rides. I'm so used to having a backpack (even an extra small one for 2l camelback only + phone) that I can't imagine riding with nothing on my back even on 5km distances when I'm busy all day. What's more, I got a bad memories about losing waterbottles during a ride and really dislike putting extra weight on a bike (I would rather go 12kg backpack than add this 1 freaky kilo to my bike). A bit radical, I know, but... just my thoughts. Despite all this, I didn't mind neg proping RM for adding the mount of course, just can't see me using it.
RMB-PM. When I have a feeling that my SourcePack is gonna be not enough I take extra bottles but guess what... in a backpackBig Grin I'm mad with my backpacks or sthBig Grin
  • 2 1
 someone explain why 1kg on the bike is different than that same 1kg in the pack? Ok, perhaps the center of gravity is a bit lower and you feel a bit more straight line balance. Props for the water bottle mounts... notice there is no cage on the bike standard so you don't have to use it.
  • 3 2
 haha, next RM response to pinkbike users gonna be a long speech about waterbottles vs camelbacksBig Grin
  • 1 3
 i like water bottles better. backpacks feel awkward to ride with. its like ur fat only on the back. it throws me off. personal opinion i guess, but waterbottles are way better for ME!
  • 2 0
 why lug around a 2L camelback for a 1hr ride?? water bottle holder tup whats big deal with putting it on the frame you dont need to have the bottle rack just are able to very quickly/easily
  • 1 0
 im reeeeealy liking this bike..just waiting to see its price in europe...veeery nice machine..well done rocky!!
  • 3 5
 i want one
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