Rohloff's Electronic Shifter Needs Just 180 Milliseconds - Interbike 2017

Sep 18, 2017
by Mike Levy  
Interbike 2017


Interbike 2017


You can find the darndest things by wandering around and having an open mind. Case in point: Rohloff, zee Germans of 14-speed internally geared hub fame, have an interesting electronic shifter that will make their hub more appealing to mountain bikers. Not now, mind you, as it's only for e-bikes at this point, but word is that it'll be available for non-motorized, aftermarket use in about a year's time. Yes, I know I said a dirty word for these parts - e-bike - but let's just look at this trick shifter as something that will be available for us pedal-power folk in the near future.

The E-14 shifter is an electronic push-button system with one button shifting to a higher gear and the other to a lower gear, and holding down a button will move the ratio by three gears in either direction. It's wired to a shift box (pictured to the right) that can be retro-fitted onto older hubs, and you can mount it up to work with an ancient Speedhub without issue - these hubs last forever, by the way.

I'm fairly certain that advanced civilizations will dig up a Rohloff hub a thousand years from now and find that it's working perfectly after they do a quick oil change.
Interbike 2017

All of the above makes the E-14 system sound pretty neat, but the rub, at least for now, is that it's only designed to work with Bosch's e-bike motors... don't shoot the messenger, please. The shifter and motor talk to each other in robot voices that only they can hear, and the Bosch motor will ease up slightly on the power when you ask for a shift, then get back on the gas after the job is done. All told, Rohloff says that this takes 180 milliseconds. For reference, it takes around 300 to 400 milliseconds to blink, just 500 milliseconds for someone to post an angry e-bike comment, and there 1,000 milliseconds in each second. So yeah, the shift happens quickly.


Interbike 2017


But forget about the e-bike part for now... instead, picture a 14-speed internally geared hub that essentially never wears out and has a 526-percent gear ratio, and the ability to shift in 180 milliseconds. There are good reasons as to why Rohloff's Speedhub isn't for the large majority of riders, but those points are impressive regardless.


Interbike 2017
Interbike 2017


There were two other interesting goodies in their booth, one of them being the Acros hydraulic trigger shifter (above, right). This thing is just damn cool: you toggle the paddle up or down to determine if you want to shift to an easier or a harder gear, then push it to make the shift. That description makes the action sound awkward, but I tinkered around with it and could get used to it pretty quickly. Check the video below to see it in action. Plus, it looks really neat.

The other was a shift box that allows your Speedhub to be shifted with pretty much anything you want to use, just so long as it pulls the amount of cable required (above, left). You can use thumb shifters, bar-end shifters, or rig up a fork lockout button. You can also use normal trigger shifters if you open them up and gut their ratcheting internals. Hell, you could even just reach down and pull on the cables if you wanted to.


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138 Comments

  • + 152
 There is no such thing as an E-bike. They were Mopeds when they were gas and they are Mopeds now that they are electric. End of story.
  • + 28
 I really support this viewpoint. If one just refers to "E-bikes" as mopeds in a comment section or forum, it really takes the wind out of their sails.
  • + 4
 I got a feeling of a mass Pink e-bike exodus if they keep forcing this crap on us. This aint boost This aint 29rs This aint eagle I dont think they feel the anger yet
  • + 13
 you're right, they aren't lame mtbs, they are just epic mopeds that coincidentaly use some mtb parts.
  • + 8
 @scary1: calling for a remake of the movie Hot Rod with an ebike
  • + 1
 This is getting plain silly. I'm starting to feel that Pinkbike is going the way of Bike Rumor with the increased moped coverage. They'll gladly welcome you over there while they basically evolve into Moped Rumor all while moderating your comments.

Seriously Pinkbike, if you feel it necessary to cover/advertise mopeds, then please make a separate site instead of alienating your current users. If you're testing us while trying to find a balance of MTB and moped coverage, I'm not so sure that's going to work out in your favor...
  • + 5
 I totally disagree @pinkbike

I am interested in ebikes as well as pedal bikes. Well, the hardcore ones anyway.

Since it is such a divisive subject, you could offer a tick box or a second tab, to hide or show ebike articles.
  • + 14
 How about you all stop bitching and moaning, it was funny the first time but now it just sounds like a bunch of children. If e bike content offends you, simply dont feel the urge to read the article and get all offended. Seems to be predominately Yanks complaining about everything this year, get over yourselves!
  • + 3
 @jaame: all 2 wheels good. jaame .don’t get sucked into the knob heads rants . there is a silent majority with open minds.but it is funny to read
  • + 0
 @scary1: unfortunately the pinkbike landslide already happenned, it was just gradual enough that it didnt bother too many people. it started with the 29er reviews instead of dh bike reviews, when was te last time we saw a dh bike reviewed? its all 29ers nowadays. they figured if they are getting away with that maybe they can slide e-bikes in there too. its not like theres a shortage of dh bikes...
  • + 4
 @whitebullit: good point. When was the last dh bike review? I think the sender one that Paul Aston did where the headset cups came loose.
You're friggin right! It's all 29er trail bikes now!
  • + 8
 So sick of commenters' coverage of e-bikes, wish they would get back to talking about DH bikes.
  • + 14
 This is not an article about e-bikes or mopeds it's about shifting technology which will soon be available for bicycles. If someone wrote an article about the sickest new fork technology in motocross that was soon to be available for mtb everyone would be drooling.
  • + 2
 @scary1: Forcing it on you? With a knife to your throat? DON'T READ IT DUMBASS!!
  • + 1
 @whitebullit: although my only bike now is an Evil Wreckoning, i completely agree with you
  • + 1
 @nohit45: thats my point. Soon enough many wont
  • + 1
 @kbonesddeuce: mmmno, im gonna disagree
  • + 2
 @doe222: its probably cuz you euros love that shit for some stupid reason. Over here it feels pushed.
  • + 7
 @kbonesddeuce: Exactly. Thank you Smile
  • + 2
 If Pinkbike wrote their articles dedicated to MTB's or mopeds, the moped articles would get more comments with people clicking into them to be offended. If people want to send a message about mopeds, then just completely ignore the content. Once manufacturers realise that there is no market for them here, they'll move on to the next fad to relieve you of your money.
  • + 2
 @scary1: That's the cycle man, eventually someone will create something that will take us from PB, but you look at how much attention the ebike crap gets on here. Of course they are going to keep posting more, those articles get the most attention! Clicks are clicks man, whether it's for hatred or for love, clicks are clicks and that's all PB cares about.
  • + 3
 Guys, shotouthoods said End of Story. I guess the discussion's over.
  • + 6
 This has nothing to do with E-bikes. An E-bike has a motor. A gearbox isn't an E-bike without a motor. The amount of technically illiterate trolls ranting about E-bikes on gearbox articles is asinine.
  • + 8
 @scary1: Is this article about e-bikes? No. Did you read that and understand it? No.

Yes, there will be some e-bike content on Pinkbike, especially right now as they ARE relevant to traditional mountain biking. I am not a fan of e-bikes, but we're here to cover what's coming and the implications of that. Hell, this isn't even an article about e-bikes.

You'll love tomorrow's article about the Yamaha e-bike, I assume Wink
  • + 3
 @whitebullit: "when was the last time we saw a downhill bike reviewed " - you mean those bicycles that require a big truck or a lift to get you to the top of the mountain?
  • + 1
 @pirati: I've held back from counter-ranting with that argument for ages. The likelihood of the haters not using anything other than their bikes from their doors to the trails, then back again, is pretty low. The illogical arguments about pedal-assist being comparable to an engine grinds my Di2 assisted gears (I wish I could afford Di2!).
  • + 1
 @malv173: just wanted to illustrate that we can in fact find an angle for about everything to demonstrate it is not "pure" mountain biking (our at least not what mtb means for each of us).

I only ride Xc/trail with my 2x9 26er, but I like reading about other disciplines and emerging technologies in the industry, and have some problems understanding people who want to censor a great site like Pinkbike into reporting only about what they think mtb should be.

Diversity + dialog = better
  • + 0
 You are really hateful towards bikes with motors on them. Too bad for you. I really enjoy my E-bike, weather you like it or not Smile
  • + 38
 Any way they can get Pinion's transmission to not use a Grip Shift? Either one of those shifters would be a better solution.
  • + 58
 Soon.
  • + 24
 @mikelevy: Tease.
  • + 3
 This is coming next guaranteed.
  • + 1
 Yeah I noticed there was a version with two paddles. One for each handlebar. One shifts up, the other shifts down. Still disappointing there still are so few bikes with the Effigear gearbox. That is designed to work with trigger shifters or with a grip shift that is kind of triggerish.
  • + 28
 @mikelevy - you say "There are good reasons as to why Rohloff's Speedhub isn't for the large majority of riders". What are those reasons? This seems like a pretty compelling system to me.
  • + 63
 They didn't pay pink bike yet to say it's good
  • + 47
 Well, they add about 1.5kg to your rear wheel...
  • + 12
 @Socket: Seriously tho, how much does this thing weight? If you remove a derailleur and a freaking 12 speed cassette, the Rohloff might still be heavier but probably not by +1.5kg. (For reference, GX Eagle der. + cassette is 740 grams).
  • + 12
 If you have rear suspension, unsprung weight. Also $$$
  • + 2
 Shut up and take my e-bike money!
  • + 3
 I'm more interested in what "ground-breaking" developments and articles/PRs will happen at InterBike 2017 in Flat Pedal designs as compared to 2016!
  • + 5
 @WaterBear: You forgot to include a hub in the equation, which quickly weighs in at 3-400 grams. Making for a total of around 1,1 kgs. So you'd add around 3-400 grams.
  • + 3
 @megatryn:
Rohloff weights about 18xxgr...
Lets take some normal parts:
-) Hope hub 300gr
-) E13 TRS+ cassette 320gr
-) GX Derailleur:270gr

That totals to about 900gr... so the difference is about 100% or close to 1kg, even without lightweight stuff...

Lightweight stuff migtht open that gap by another 100gr easily...
  • + 4
 @MalcolmXL: Rohloff hubs make sense on hardtails, winter, touring, and gravel grinders. They don't belong on the rear of full suspension bikes.
  • + 1
 @VTwintips: True, i have a speedhub on my touring/travel/commuting/road bike, love it there.
But i do not want it on my mountainbikes.

Kinda intrested in the electronic shifting thing once its available for normal bikes. Now the gripshift does not fit well the drop bars.
  • + 3
 Would a rohloff fit in the bottom bracket area? Like a gearbox but it wouldn't be the same since the mechanism is different. And the unsprung weight issue is solved
  • + 1
 Why has no one ever thought of a derailleur in a box like Honda did? It seems to combine the best of both worlds: the obvious advantages of a gearbox but with the feel of a derailleur.. Tried a few Pinion/Nexus/Rohloff travel bikes and I hated the vague, disconnected feeling when shifting.
  • + 1
 @MalcolmXL: Thank you. We have the numbers now.
  • + 2
 Nicolai used them on there gear boxes for a while. Pinion is lighter and interested in getting lighter still. Rohloff has been perfect forever and will be the only gear system post apocalypse.
  • + 2
 @bonkywonky: Not sure what the Suntour V-Boxx is like inside (the still have it on their website) but Hayes currently owns the PeteSpeed gearbox from B1 (beone). They bought the patent but simply won't do anything with it. I don't think it is too different from what Honda did. A shame of course considering that with Hayes, Manitou, Answer and a gearbox they could take on the big SRAM. That said, I think this concept is considerably more bulky than Pinion which is putting brands off. Especially for full suspension bikes where people have decided that bottles and tools belong onto the bike. Pinion and Effigear are much more compact so it is hard to compete.

As for the weight, I think Rohloff could bother to make something lighter but that simply isn't their market. Their customers aren't after the lowest weight, but they want something they can expect to survive a trip over the Himalaya on a heavily packed bike (or even tandem) without bothering with any maintenance. A derailleur type drivetrain designed to meet those requirements isn't going to be light either.

The biggest downside with the Rohloff concept for us mountainbikes is that you're investing in an expensive rear wheel instead of in a more expensive frame. We would like to be able to swap wheels and compared to Pinion, with a hub like this you're investing in the wrong thing.
  • + 2
 @vinay: I think it's a bit questionable to keep a patent that could move things forward but don't actually do anything with it. I agree that it's quite bulky but then again I think the benefits would outweigh the weight and bulkiness when executed properly. I would personally love a mech-in-a-box bike with a belt drive.

The biggest gripe with the Rohloff or Pinion IMO is the way it shifts (impossible under load, rather than having to slightly ease off the power for a second with a rear mech) and the system's slack which feels like crap when used to a modern hub. I'm not an engineer but I can imagine this being inherent to those designs. Until these drawbacks are solved I doubt the gearbox will be a mainstream success TBH.
  • + 1
 @bonkywonky: Oh yeah, I suppose Hayes just grabbed what they could when B1 went out of business. And back then brands were really exploring the gearbox concept. Nicolai used to take a Rohloff hub, mount it inside the front triangle, hold the axles and have the other large pulley bolted to the hub shell (at the spoke holes). This was before Pinion entered the stage. I think GT did something similar with a Shimano hub. Things have settled down lately. Effigear doesn't seem to get any foothold (so they eventually started their own bike brand Cavalier), Pinion does the gearbox market, no one uses Suntour V-Boxx and Hayes just sits on the patent so that no one else can use it. Shame indeed.

To be honest I'm seriously considering Pinion for my next frame. I like the idea of never being too worried about excessive wear when riding through the wet or loose sandy sections. Especially as I like to go out for short rides, riding ten minutes longer instead of reserving ten minutes after each ride for cleaning and lubing seems like a nice idea. I've never ridden with Rohloff or internal gearboxes. I do have two (regular) bikes. One with a Shimano Nexus 7 hub, the other with Nexus 8. They feel more than efficient enough. It doesn't feel vague. I can shift, then hammer. Not sure if my mountainbike (with 1x9 derailleur drivetrain) is more efficient. There is so much different that it is hard to compare. As for shifting under load, I don't really do that and I expect the chain to just lock up. For a while I tried gripshift for the rear mech. It is easy to force a shift like that but I bent too many rear mechs doing that so I went back to trigger.

One downside with Pinion is that you can't really get the rear end real short, it takes space. The BTR Ranger can have it really short, but Tam said that for a 27.5" rear wheel he probably can't go shorter than 428mm with Pinion. Same with Portus. The Krowd Karl (krowdkarl.de) can get shorter chainstays than mentioned on the project page (if you ditch the possibility to run 29" in the rear) but Alex can't get it shorter than 428mm. Obviously with Rohloff this isn't much of an issue. But it feels odd to invest so much in a hub. I'm more likely to have several rear wheels for a single bike than share one wheel across several bikes.

Either way, it is a lot of money. But grinding away expensive chains and cassettes adds up quickly too.
  • + 2
 @bonkywonky: I looked this up:

www.rohloff.de/en/experience/technology-in-detail/mechanical-efficiency

According to Rohloff, their gearbox isn't quite comparable to regular gear hubs like Nexus and the Sachs/SRAM counterparts (did SRAM ever do any development there?). Then again part of the efficiency they attribute to the oil bath, so Alfine 11sp may do fine too. But then if Rohloff is on par with a regular derailleur drivetrain, why wouldn't Pinion be, too?
  • + 0
 @MalcolmXL: trs+ cassettes ftw there the beesf, just saying
  • + 28
 So it turns out people hate eMTBs more than they hate derailleurs. Gotcha.
  • + 19
 I thought this was a safe space Frown
  • + 5
 @mikelevy: hahahaha
  • + 17
 Only gonna buy it when they also launch electronic brakes, so I can use it on my eletronicBike with my electronic (wireless Mavic) dropper seatpost while putting the whole bike on my electronic treadmill, wearing electronic VR glasses to see electronic pixeld trees and forrests...

I am sorry but are we really getting that stupid?
  • + 1
 No, we just want better components on our bikes. If an electric one does the job better, I'm in; so that I can spend more time enjoying the real trails.
  • + 1
 +1, honestly I like that my bike is quite simple mechanical thing (not including Garmin). Electrical shifting will take some of it's minimalistic nature.
  • + 1
 @polarproton: "better" is the unclear part. You shift a real motorcycle with your toe; The process is entirely mechanical, unless you have a hydraulic clutch. Note that the gear change is purely mechanical.

Now explain to me why a bicycle gear box needs an external source of power. To shift quickly? No sale.
  • + 1
 @WaterBear: better --> improved characteristics over the traditional shifter, some will want the speed, others the reliability. A solution that floats my boat might not suit you, is this a reason to repel it? For the sake of precision, I will correct you saying the whole shift action is performed my one hand and a foot. Using the selector "only" moves the gears. With bikes we have a single thumb action. Smile
Subsequently, I never said a bicycle gearbox "needs" an external power source, but that IF it offers improvements THEN I am in. I don't claim to know everything in how a gearbox exactly works, I don't work at pinion and have never ridden one ( although I'd love).

Now, my initial comment intended to point out it's silly to label all electric part in a bike as bad. Most people use a garmin// heartrate monitor//PoV cam and honestly, once you are on the trail/road I pity you if care about your shifter being electric or mechanical. Electrifying parts such as the shifters// saddle//suspension doesn't change the ride experience at all! In that regard, the initial comment is pointless as it mixes everything.

@eugen-fried : Bikes are awfully complex piece of mechanic, from the shifters ( XX1 derailleur has more than 100 parts) to the suspension. The Di2 is mechanically much more simple due to a motor and a PCB. You can think of a mechanical vs electric watch. This also means that the Di2 is much more durable than its mechanical counterpart ( LBS words).
  • + 20
 Phew The slowness of my XT Di is really infuriating
  • + 13
 This unholy alliance with the vile electric mountain moped means it will forever be marked with the stank of corruption! Burn it! Burn it with FIRE! Smile
  • + 3
 I think it's neat that motorcycle innovation has applications for bicycles.
  • + 10
 I wish rohloff hubs weren't more expensive than my bike. The technology and durability have always been amazing from what I've read. I'd love to try one.
  • - 3
 So amazing technology and extreme durability should be cheap?
  • + 11
 @Tr011: no, I just wish I had the disposable cash to buy one. I'm not complaining about the price point but my own monetary situation.
  • + 5
 @Tr011: cheap and more affordable are different.
  • + 1
 I bought and sold one 10 years ago. Sold it because it can't shift under any load whatsoever. You think that's no big deal, but it turns out it sucks big time for any kind of real mountain biking where you might end up in the wrong gear halfway up an incline. A typical derailleur system can shift under moderate pedal load.
  • + 1
 @jondrums: same with pinions. Such an annoyance.

But this one doesn't have that issue, solely because it uses a robot and a motor.
  • + 6
 Why can't they make a smaller, slimmer version with a much narrower range and much less internals ?
Would love one for my DH bike if it was no so bulky and with such a big range.
  • + 3
 a 5 speed dh version would be nice or even a 3 speed fro version.
  • + 1
 @bat-fastard: Yeah 5 would suit me fine
  • + 1
 @bigburd: I agree. Surely it is the best solution to a gearbox despite the added weight which, as you kind of suggest could probably be reduced with some refinement and slimming down. I'd love one for my hardtail.
  • + 5
 For real bikes, if they're using electronics and shifts are 180ms then they should be able to time shifts during low torque parts of the pedal cycle.
  • + 2
 That's seriously good idea. Like the robot hunting sights that only fire if the aim is on target AND the trigger is held down. So when you want to shift you just hold down the shifter and as soon as the torque on the hub drops below threshold the shift happens. Need a torque sensor but that should be all.
  • + 1
 hooked up to a power meter in the crank? Fancy!
  • + 2
 All the people in the beginning of this post who are bitching about the e-bike/mopeds are really just the readers who have somehow forgotten about the whole 26/27.5/29 bitchfest and need something else to bitch about. They have found their new soapbox.

I'm not saying I support ebikes. Erg, Mopeds on the trail. Especially when its'a 20 something rider smoking a cigarettes and drinking a Mickies wide mouth at the top of the trail. But when I talk to an 80 year old rider out on the trail who says it's the only way they can get out that far in nature again it makes me happy
  • + 0
 Regardless of age of fitness, who are we to keep anyone from enjoying the outdoors on any sort of bike? The fun police? So nice to see all these 16 year olds slagging off ebikes when Yamaha brings one out, I recall the comments were a lot more nuanced when the Coastal Crew were involved, guess that's the power of marketing...
  • + 5
 Mike your millisecond math is solid !
In fact, perhaps a 2nd career if you're not reviewing e-bikes in old age ?
  • + 4
 Ha ha... I agree. Motor Assisted Mountain ScooterS "MAMS". There you go, buddy! Run with it!
  • + 1
 I remember back when you didn't have opposed shifting for gears (thumb and fore finger), then we got opposed shifting, double shifting, tactile feedback (SIS), etc etc. Now someone wants to put the shifting experience (I couldn't care less how it shifts so long as it shifts reliably) back into the dark ages with something that is harder to reach, uses the same finger for up and down, doesn't have good tactile feedback, is harder to know how many gears you have shifted, you cant double shift and to add to that you have to remember to keep charged. Lets not even talk about wheel interchanging with a hub gear or the unsprung mass....
Looks like someone had some pretty limited design input requirements... Smile
  • + 1
 "wheel interchanging with a hub gear or the unsprung mass"
So can anyone explain for the masses in simpleton English why +500g of unsprung mass is a bad thing on a DH bike? Because it sounds reasonable to run internal gearing in the rear hub and no derailleur if we only need 7 gears and not the 14 that a moped needs... with a little engineering that 500g could be far less.. Wheel changes would be a pain but does everyone have extra wheels on hand or do most just change the tire and keep the same wheel setup?
  • + 2
 In a world where nearly all rear hubs use through axle, the worlds most advanced hub uses a QR........common rohloff. I have been waiting for a convertable hub from you guys for years.
  • + 1
 ... just have a look at ther website. it is called "A12" which even works with 148 boost.

go to your lbs, measure your frame as rohloff tells you to and ... 1400$ later.... you are ready to go :-)

www.rohloff.de/de/produkte/speedhub/varianten

How to: www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Rohloff-A12-beide_Messmethoden-DE.pdf
  • + 5
 Pinion + Rohloff please. Thanks!
  • + 5
 In robot voices only they can hear...you mean like skynet?
  • + 1
 Next up, the T1000 model...
  • + 3
 A Rohloff equipped ebike. I imagine the mass of such a thing would develop its own gravitational pull.
  • + 3
 Forget the shifter, is that some new sonic dropper post remote in the first pic?
  • + 3
 That transmitter dome with the stealth black parts is something to behold - why has everyone overseen this part?!
  • + 3
 It looks incredible, but given that it is new tech none of us will be able to afford it for a good few years.
I just worry whether you can mount it under the bars and it still work? If so, they're onto a winner...
  • + 4
 Anything with a battery is a no no for me!!!
  • + 7
 Hand over your phone then.
  • + 0
 Well then I guess you will have to quit riding as teh Human body is nothing but an electrochemical battery.
  • + 1
 Man, I didn't realize so many people were lacking opposable thumbs. If I was in that situation I would be all over this, but since I am not, I won't bother schlep around a battery that needs charging.
  • + 1
 I love the Rohloff Speedhub since 2003, Tyler Klassen and Tarek Rasouli inspired me to build up my freeride bike with the 14 gears dream machine! Now I have it on ALL my bikes, also on my new Polygon bikepark fun tool!
  • + 3
 the comments on this site are getting as bad as the daily fail, as soon as E-bikes are mentioned you loose your shit.
  • + 1
 I once saw a 160mm full sus bike with a Rohloff gear box, in a garage, it didn't look like it had being ridden for quite some time. I have nothing more to add.
  • + 3
 "only 180ms". Lol, as a programmer that's an eternity!
  • + 2
 unless you're running ruby
  • + 4
 I used to play counter strike online with 180ms ping........
  • + 2
 Lol that's what I was thinking...and I program micros!
  • + 1
 Please do some more wandering around and find the Eagle E-Tap....that would be news. The Rohloff is more like a DCT for motorcycles than a bicycle innovation.
  • + 1
 It's unfortunate how many times you felt like you had to apologize for saying eBike - grow a pair and own it.
  • + 10
 ...or just stop calling mopeds 'ebike'
  • + 6
 @scottzg: No kidding, if you replace every "ebike" with "moped" in any of the "peaceful discussions" around here it automatically puts them back in their place-not associated with traditional mountain bikes. That industry is piggybacking on the history and work of the true cycling industry much like almond "milk" does with the dairy industry. The name has value and connotations that we shouldn't give it.
  • + 13
 Sorry for the sorries, eh.

I write for Pinkbike and regularly get torn a new a*shole by commenters, but I wouldn't have it any other way! I've grown a few dozen pairs by now and I'm happy to own anything. My e-bike sorries were in jest, and I'm sorry you didn't pick up on that Smile
  • - 6
flag DirtGuru2 (Sep 18, 2017 at 21:47) (Below Threshold)
 @swamper1: Got to the part about dairy vs almond milk, and couldn't help thinking... One of them is worth drinking, while one of them has an acceptable level of hormones, pus and feces.

Interesting reading: www.rense.com/general26/truth.htm
  • + 15
 @DirtGuru2: pick a milk and be a dick about it
  • + 2
 @kanasasa: excellent referencing. *applauds
  • + 3
 Shift happens.
  • + 1
 Pinkbike: came for the hucking, stayed for the Enduro (tm), left the place in smoldering ruins over electric mopeds.
  • + 1
 It does not matter how quick it shifts if you still have to stop pedaling.
  • + 1
 Poopety poop poop on your batteries I'll go analog thanks.
  • + 10
 He says from his phone/computer
  • + 4
 @onemind123: No one listens to his phonographs. What's a guy to do?
  • + 3
 @onemind123:
I'll put up with the batteries I need in my life.
Our experiences in the mountains with our good friends are not better because of batteries.
  • + 1
 @jflb: agree. Noticed from my phone and gps that battery life can be pretty short on cold days.
  • + 1
 @Pinkbike Can we stop with moped coverage please. It's not 'pinkmoped.com'
  • + 2
 Is this article even about e-bikes?
  • + 2
 BANG!! messenger shot.
  • + 1
 Damn stealth helicopters man. Russia. I'm telling you.
  • + 2
 BELL
  • + 1
 I assume it's wired into the system somehow.
  • + 1
 @phile99: e-bell
  • + 1
 This is the first bit of electric bike tech that I appreciate.
  • + 0
 Guess how long my fingers need?
  • - 17
flag mollow (Sep 18, 2017 at 18:50) (Below Threshold)
 To make your wife cum? Way too long
  • + 2
 @mollow: Booo.
  • - 1
 I can't wait to rig up this system on my Fat trail building E-bike.
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