Rose Bikes Announces Price Increases of 8-12%

Mar 15, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  

Germany's Rose Bikes has become the latest manufacturer to announce price rises due to the effects of COVID-19.

The direct sale brand will be increasing its prices by 8-12% across all segments, joining brands including Commencal, Propain, Santa Cruz and others that have recently all felt the pandemic's toll on the cost of doing business.

The brand has described the bike boom as "unstoppable" and says that this has meant a scarcity of raw materials has increased prices across the industry and throughout the supply chain. The brand also says that shipping containers cost eight times more than normal and there have been increases in cost for land freight too. The price increase won't come into effect until March 25th so anyone considering purchasing a Rose bike is recommended to do so before that deadline.

bigquotesAlmost all components of the supply industry are now more expensive for us. On top of that are increased freight costs. Of course, we would also prefer to keep the old prices. Unfortunately, we could not delay it any longer. As a small compensation, we are offering our customers the option of ordering their bike at the old price until March 25th.Thorsten Heckrath-Rose, Managing Director at ROSE Bikes GmbH

bigquotes"If you want to cycle next summer, buy now! Because the boom is not stopping and delivery times will continue to be higher than customers are used to in the bike industry."Anatol Sostmann, Director Product & Brand

More info, here.


327 Comments

  • 484 2
 If you want to cycle next summer, keep riding the bike you already have.
  • 108 12
 Or go to a shop and see what they've got.
  • 44 28
 @BenPea: Ben is right, we have an S4 Enduro and an S4 Stumpy!
  • 69 3
 !00% agree. I bought Nukeproof 290 Factory in 2018 and I will keep it for the full 5 year warranty period and then see how much the industry has moved forward and if it's worth upgrading at that point. It looks like the rate of improvement has slowed down since 2017 when the geometry for 29er enduro bikes was nailed.
  • 15 1
 **edit: at our LBS
  • 3 0
 @BenPea: if they are like our local bike shops, there won't be much to go around. Moat bikes are sold out with loooong lead times. And Slack numbers coming in.
  • 12 3
 @drjonnywonderboy: I was planning to do the same with my old bike (2016 Vitus Escarpe Pro 29er) but since some nice people released me from it, I now have to wait for a new one (Commencal Meta).
So, 4 years distance:
Geo:
Minus cca. 3° Head Angle, plus 3° Seat Angle, plus 45 mm Reach, minus 40 mm Seat Tube length
Equipment:
148 vs 142 rear axle, mm vs inch Shock, 175 vs 125 dropper post, 30 vs 23 mm rims, 12 vs 10 speeds, 10-51 vs 10-42 cassette, bigger discs, 10 mm shorter stem and 20 mm wider Handlebars
  • 14 0
 Hopefully they'll have chains and brake pads in stock.
  • 5 0
 @pakleni: Makes for a pretty drastically different ride!
  • 14 2
 @Kainerm: my LBS told me they could have sold 20 of the current model year stumpys since they came out. They've only had 4! But for some weird reason, they have had enough ebikes...
  • 3 23
flag DroppingThreeTwoOne (Mar 15, 2021 at 9:16) (Below Threshold)
 @mountainsofsussex: LBS are shilllllz
  • 7 1
 @pakleni: You have a point but also consider that the 2018 Mega is still current in almost every aspect. It came with boost, mm shock, 150 dropper, 30mm rims, 12/11 speed, wide handlebars - also the geo numbers are very current even if you compare it to the new 2021 Mega.
It's also a very good platform even for some upgrades if you want since you are not throwing money at old geo frame.
It could just be me but I think the industry slowed down in the last 2-3 years (well a bit depends on the brand).
  • 4 0
 No plans to buy new ever again, was happy 3 years ago with it, will be happy for years to come
  • 2 0
 @pakleni: Basically the same bikes
  • 1 0
 Not much changed Smile
  • 1 0
 I got lucky and picked up a mega 290
  • 2 0
 @drjonnywonderboy: if it carries on like this it'll be worth more than you paid for it! ????
  • 3 1
 @mountainsofsussex: On the e-bikes, it's definitely not the shops that are prioritizing them. Although the sticker prices are relatively way higher than standard mtn bikes, the margins on them are total shit comparatively. Definitely just the brands pushing their agenda down our throats
  • 2 0
 Well, the bloom is off the rose.
  • 2 0
 @skyrez18: just got an S4 enduro back in January, such a rad bike! though i feel like the shock needs more room for bottom out spacers.. i got 2 in there and even at 20% sag i bottom out constantly
  • 2 0
 @PabloMoll: my shop has been out of stock of SRAM 12sp chains for the past 2 months.. RIP
  • 1 0
 Bike, Boom.
  • 1 0
 @PabloMoll:
Nope. Time to hoard the consumables!
  • 1 0
 @mllachance: the shop reckoned there was a serious problem with paperwork - loads of bikes stuck in containers in ports in this country. I believe the taxes are different on ebikes here, so that could have affected it
  • 1 0
 @TylerG96: That's odd, I also notice notice slightly less end stroke support that I would want but not enough to want to add a spacer (140lbs, 165psi, 28% sag, Performance Float X2). Do make sure you are measuring correctly as the Enduro uses a 205x60 shock which is the same as 205x65 just w a 5mm spacer so the length of the stanchion is 65, when your stroke is only 60mm.
  • 1 0
 I'm riding a 2013 Genesis Latitude with a few upgrades. A new equivalent trail bike would get me 10mm more reach, 5mm lower bb, about a degree more slack and new wheel axles, all for £2000+... I'm alright.
  • 1 0
 @TylerG96: ETA on most of them with UK distributors is now October. We have the same problem!
  • 1 0
 @drjonnywonderboy: 29er geometry still hasn't been nailed in 2021. I had to go with a mullet to get any sort of cornering capability.
  • 344 1
 I guess you could say the prices ROSE...
  • 42 1
 They should start selling spectacles so we can reminisce about the good ol ddays when bikes were cheap. I love my Rose-tinted glasses.
  • 36 0
 Would a Rose at any other price smell as sweet?
  • 45 0
 The thorny issue of supply and demand.
  • 55 1
 Rose is red Violets are blue I need a new bike But won't buy it from you
  • 54 3
 @mi-bike: this really shrubs me the wrong way. to be honest, it's pretty bush-league. i mean, what's getting more expensive on these, the stems? the petals? this is just rooted in making more money.
  • 7 0
 @rocky-mtn-gman: it would really help to have Pollen so that we could see if PBers agree this leaves Rose with a Stigma.
  • 1 1
 I see what you did there.
  • 11 2
 It really is unfair to blame COVID for supply issues that have long stemmed from the industry's short product cycles, overseas manufacturing, and just-in-time inventory.
  • 1 0
 Priceless!
  • 4 0
 For those not owning a bike yet - Mountain biking will be replaced by price hikes.
  • 8 0
 Every Rose has it’s thorn.
  • 2 0
 The bloom if off the... Rose?
  • 1 0
 @mi-bike: You really rose to the challenge there...
  • 173 3
 Will the price drop by 8-12% once the pandemic is gone?
  • 46 2
 I would reserve judgment on calling them greedy mofos until we see if the reasons for the increase also come down.
  • 121 9
 No, just because we will be hitting 10% inflation anyway. Not because of bike boom, but because of billions of dollars and other currencies are being printed right now to "overcome crisis".
  • 68 125
flag tkrumroy (Mar 15, 2021 at 6:24) (Below Threshold)
 @lkubica: thank god Congress was able to pass the $15 minimum wage increase to keep up with that inflation.

Oh yeah...ugh, republicans happened LOL
  • 1 1
 @lkubica: 10% would be nice
  • 11 10
 @tkrumroy: pretty sure 15$ minimum wage didn't get through with the relief package Frown
  • 13 2
 Rose just saw an 8-12% revenue decrease.
  • 70 86
flag utrider (Mar 15, 2021 at 7:10) (Below Threshold)
 @tkrumroy: if minimum wage goes up so eventually does the cost of everything. Within a year that $15 minimum wage buying power is nothing more than the buying power of today’s minimum-wage.
  • 5 1
 No. Corovid is the new normal.
  • 2 1
 @lkubica: So far it's in check. Unprecedented time, so time will tell. But the initial indicators are better than expected.
  • 26 7
 @utrider: that's not how price is determined, nor how inflation happens.
  • 69 19
 @utrider: Right, that's some sound logic. "If we raise the minimum wage, it'll be worth basically the same in a couple years so why bother!" No, minimum wage is NOT the main driver of inflation, and if the minimum wage stays the same, people will be making even less as inflation inevitably continues. P.S. the federal minimum in 1965 was $1.25 which is equivalent to a little over $10 today. In '68 it was $1.60 which is around $12 today.

When are we going to stop paying people ignorant wages for jobs that we've deemed should exist?
  • 5 7
 isn’t this a rose bikes post? asking for a friend. @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL:
  • 30 3
 @utrider: LOL

Hey kids 'never take financial advice from the PB comment section Exhibit A'
  • 11 4
 @utrider: misinformed comment
  • 1 2
 @utrider: science
  • 9 35
flag jrocksdh (Mar 15, 2021 at 7:57) (Below Threshold)
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: luckily in usa and other countries, people still have a choice to take a certain job at a certain price. What sucks, is many dont have the opportunity to work more hours than full time...if desired.
  • 26 36
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 8:17) (Below Threshold)
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: (username sus) you realize that increasing the minimum wage is going to increase the unemployment rate at a time when the government has already forced millions of people out of work? Even the beloved Bernie Sanders cut hours and staff when he started paying his staffers more. Not to mention we're talking about low skill labor jobs, like starbuchs baristas. Why would I hire 3 teenagers at 15$ hourly if I can buy an auto espresso machine for $300 once, cut down to 1 teenager, and be done with it? If the price of labor goes up demand will go down, simple.
  • 45 7
 @jrocksdh: That's some of the most indoctrinated wage-slave nonsense I've ever heard.
  • 11 28
flag Jasonbourne (Mar 15, 2021 at 8:24) (Below Threshold)
 Why stop at $15? Why not $100 an hour? @tkrumroy:
  • 15 20
flag Jasonbourne (Mar 15, 2021 at 8:25) (Below Threshold)
 Go start a company and do it then. Pay em $50 an hour. Or $100. @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL:
  • 24 17
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: I am a SoCal very small business owner. If I am forced to raise payroll on 3 of my workers, then I also will pay more in payroll taxes and work comp..... Do you think I alone will eat that, or my customers will?? By your screen name, I'm guessing you already know the answer.
  • 41 21
 @Jasonbourne: Are you saying a company can't survive if they pay the laborers who actually generate revenue what they deserve? Crazy, it's almost like capitalism I inherently exploitative.
  • 17 9
 What’s the number? How much do they “deserve”? Give me a number @lukeisdumb:
  • 3 4
 @Jasonbourne: Because...adults?
  • 1 1
 double post
  • 6 9
 @DBone95: they don't want to think critically. armchair economics and business management.
  • 19 17
 @lukeisdumb: your whole argument is completely farcical. If you have skilled labor, you can negotiate for wages, if you are unskilled and merely a flesh puppet who flips burgers, don't whine about making burger wages. We already outsource all of our labor overseas to cheaper labor markets and massive mechanical manufacturing plants, do you really think that's all just going to start when we raise minimum wage? it's literally economics 101
  • 6 8
 @Jasonbourne: he can't. username says it all.
  • 11 20
flag lukeisdumb (Mar 15, 2021 at 9:36) (Below Threshold)
 @Jasonbourne: You know as well I as I do that cost of living varies so it can't be boiled down to specific number. What they deserve is basic needs of survival met. Food, shelter, that kind of stuff. Minimum wage won't even get you a studio apartment in most of the U.S. What they deserve is more than the managers and CEO's get because the further up the ladder you are the more distant you get from any labor that actually generates cash flow.
  • 17 12
 @lukeisdumb: so much ignorance in one small statement. Assuming that just because you move up the ladder the less you work or generate revenue is the most "us vs them" "rich people bad" statement ever. Please substantiate that. Do you really think the kid flipping burgers generates more revenue than the CEO that makes decisions affecting the entire company? That's pretty telling about your real world work experience.

Just answer the questions: what rate should employees be paid? And for smaller companies, does that mean the company just makes less profit so that they can pay their employees more, or do you think the company (inherently profit driven) is going to likely cut some employees since now the marginal cost/marginal utility disparity has grown?
  • 15 6
 It's the new fiat dollars being printed. More dollars chasing a reduced supply due to lockdowns leads to higher prices. Basic supply and demand. Supply and demand should determine wages as well... not bureaucrats or pinkbike commenters. Besides, if price controls such as minimum wage laws worked why stop at $15? Why not $50 or $100? If anyone wants to be upset, get upset with the federal reserve and the politicians who recklessly spend while stopping people from going to work.
  • 64 11
 @TotalAmateur: It isn't possible to outsource food service. It isn't possible to live comfortably on food service wages in most of the world. Therefore, if you want to have food served to you, you must have people who aren't being paid enough to live comfortably.

The fact that you are arguing that there are human beings in the richest country in the world who don't deserve to live comfortably is sociopathic.

Every human being should be paid a living wage. It doesn't matter how much better than them you think you are. Every human being should be paid a living wage.

Paying the poorest people in our societies more puts money directly back into our local economies as the poorest people can't save money and they can't invest money. They will spend any extra money they have on necessities they are currently foregoing. That means that local businesses who are now paying their employees properly are also making more money so they are at a net gain. This is proven by every study into it ever done, there is no economic reason not to give every employee proper wages. The same is true of Universal basic income programs, every penny spent on them returns itself several fold in reduced reliance on government programs but capitalists rely on exploiting desperate people to focus wealth on a tiny fraction of individuals so they push the Socialism = Evil narrative down our throats.

The only argument against proper living wages for all human beings is that you think other human beings don't deserve comfort and happiness, and that's f*cked.
  • 1 0
 good one xD
  • 1 0
 @tkrumroy: is the first part of your comment sarcasm, or do you *actually* think that is how anything works?
  • 8 3
 The bootlickery in this thread is strong.
  • 27 8
 @westeast: Good straw man argument.

Nobody is arguing for a minimum wage of $50. The $15 amount is being pushed for as it is enough for most people in most states of America to afford to rent a home for them and their families.

A 10% increase in food service industry worker's wages generally leads to a 1.4% increase in the price of the food they sell. So a 100% increase in the minimum wage as is being discussed would lead to around a 14% increase in the price of a big mac (53 cents) but would allow every person in the restaurant to be able to afford to rent a safe and comfortable place to sleep and raise their family.

It also allows you, if you don't make minimum wage, to argue that your skills deserve to be paid better as you could go and make enough to live on flipping burgers. Your boss doesn't want to lose you as you are a skilled worker so you get a raise so that 53 cent increase in the burger price is more than offset when you treat yourself to some junk on the way home from a ride.
  • 16 25
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:23) (Below Threshold)
 @Patrick9-32: "It isn't possible to outsource food service" (false, restaurant automation has already begun, look it up)
"it isn't possible to live on food service wages" (my gf was a bartender and a sommelier and made over 5k take home a month before COVID so again, false. but granted that its much harder if your only billable skill is flipping a cheeseburger and not being stoned)
I've literally never once used the argument "people don't deserve to live comfortably". What a wonderfully painful and wild strawman that was.

and lets go with your logic one step further here, who is going to bear the burden of these increased costs of operations: you, the consumer, or me the business owner? Because we already have seen how vehemently opposed everyone is to any sort of increase in prices, so consumers aren't going to foot the bill most likely. And the business owner won't accept lower profits if he can replace the now expensive human capital with cheap non human capital.


Like I get it you want to have a kumbaya moment and everyone to be paid what they feel its worth, but take it out of idealistic sofa talk and apply it to the real world for 2 seconds and you'll find that pretty much every market subverts your efforts.
  • 3 6
 @Patrick9-32: quick maths
  • 8 11
 @Patrick9-32: so many unsubstantiated assumptions in your replies. Literally go and look at a supply and demand chart for labor and watch what effects it has on the market. the marginal gain for employees will either be negligible, or too high a cost for the employer to pay. Or they'll just cut hours, which is something you haven't addressed in the slightest but is an all too real outcome that we see time and time again.
  • 8 15
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:26) (Below Threshold)
 @Patrick9-32: isn't it funny how we keep increasing the minimum wage and yet every year minimum wage earners say that they're not getting paid enough for their remedial skill-less jobs? seems like something might not be working idk...
  • 11 15
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:29) (Below Threshold)
 @Patrick9-32: literally everything you've highlighted is an issue with the quality of labor, not the rate of compensation. are there chefs working at mcdonalds? probably not. show me a situation in which a person has a verifiable higher skillset but is forced to accept lower wages on the basis of "capitalism is greedy". If you are a skilled laborer working in a low wage, unskilled job, then you need to look in the mirror if you want to get upset with someone.
  • 6 14
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:30) (Below Threshold)
 @Almazing: is that what you call people understanding economics better than you? I forgot addressing reality as reality = bootlicking.
  • 18 8
 @TotalAmateur: "if you are unskilled and merely a flesh puppet who flips burgers, don't whine about making burger wages."

Sure sounds like you are arguing that some people... ahem, sorry, "flesh puppets" don't deserve to make enough money to live on here.
  • 6 1
 @Patrick9-32: what about some sort of hybrid system. I always hear the argument that it could shut down or at least hurt lots of smaller businesses. What if those businesses only had a minimum around $10 or current rates vs larger companies, say over 50 or 100 or 200 employees like Amazon had a rate more like $25. Oftentimes these huge companies like Walmart literally advocate for higher minimum wages to drive out competition and then they take over more and more. Amazon could easily afford to pay it's warehouse employees far more. I think there should be a tiered system.
  • 11 20
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:37) (Below Threshold)
 @Patrick9-32: ya i'm sorry if I offended an burger flippers here.

Is that the only thing you're able to come back with? seriously?
Ok let's open it up to you then, how much should someone get paid who only knows how to make a big Mac? And should the consumer bear the increase or the company?

furthermore, if these "living wages" measures actually worked, then why are we having this discussion? we already raised it to 12.50 and 13.5 in some states, and guess what, still not buying a house with them burger wages.

I've worked in fast food restaurants, I've been a pool boy, bar back, insurance salesman, bike salesman, you name it. People are paid based on what they can do, pretty much end of story.

If you think differently, please provide some examples that back up your theories.
  • 6 8
 @DylanH93: then you're incentivizing companies to hire less full time workers, or just offset their human capital with machines, something amazon is already doing.

not saying its not a good idea, just pointing out some early setbacks
  • 5 2
 @DylanH93: The increased spending power of poorer people disproportionately helps small businesses though as they usually don't have the economies of scale to compete on price with the big corporations so when people earn more and become less price focussed they might choose to, for example, shop at the local butcher rather than buying cheap meat from walmart or similar. This helps to offset the cost of higher employee wages for the smaller local businesses.
  • 13 21
flag Almazing (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:39) (Below Threshold)
 @TotalAmateur: 'Understanding economics better than you.'

Take your Fox News, Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson bullshit somewhere else. I've read your argument all over the internet.

I call it bootlickery because that's exactly what it is. Tell me, how much are you getting paid by capitalists and corporations for singing their praises and deep throating?

Unless you can furnish me an economics degree or your business earnings, you're just an armchair bootlicker that has watched way too many hours of Fox.
  • 13 17
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:44) (Below Threshold)
 @Almazing: lol I do have an econ degree, buddeh. I can tell you have nothing substantial you're literally just reverting to personal insults because you have nothing. also LOL at you not being able to understand shit that you should have learned in high school, typical liberal.
  • 17 5
 @TotalAmateur: "ya i'm sorry if I offended an burger flippers here."

I have never worked in fast food I am just capable of human empathy.

"Ok let's open it up to you then, how much should someone get paid who only knows how to make a big Mac? And should the consumer bear the increase or the company?"

How many times? Enough to live comfortably. That varies from place to place but it is sure as shit a lot more than the current minimum wage.

Getting into an argument over the specifics isn't addressing the central point that human beings deserve to live comfortably. What is your argument against that? What is your reasoning for people, no matter where they work, putting in a full week of work and not being able to afford a place to live without roommates or rats?

"People are paid based on what they can do, pretty much end of story."

I agree that people should be paid different based on what they can do, the lowest end of that spectrum however should be enough to live on comfortably.
  • 8 17
flag Almazing (Mar 15, 2021 at 10:46) (Below Threshold)
 @TotalAmateur:

Ah the true colors come out. Can I see this econ degree of yours?

Or are you just as full of shit as your Fox News overlords?

And for the record, I haven't made any sort of claims. I just like to call out bootlickers for what they are.
  • 4 1
 @Patrick9-32: "living wage" is pretty ambiguous. Across the US, that will vary an incredible amount. $15 in the middle of the country will have you living nicely vs in a city. Obviously the federal minimum can't work universally. So let the individual states or counties decide I assume? What about the federal, maybe just bring it to the lowest common denominator?
  • 2 0
 I doubt it. Those colour match bike and Porsche combs shown recently don’t pay for themselves
  • 8 5
 @DBone95: So you are saying your business is only viable if you underpay your staff? I think you need to look at your business model more closely
  • 12 10
 @CM999:

This.

I mostly like capitalism and the 'free market', and as such, I have zero sympathy for businesses that claim they can barely stay afloat even with underpaid laborers. I you can't stay in business while paying your staff a living wage based on locality and average housing costs, you shouldn't be in business. And as a consumer, your operating costs aren't my problem.

I wouldn't say I'm anti-corporation. I'm more along the lines of pro-labor.
  • 11 0
 @TotalAmateur: Ahh...I hate to say this...but I KIND OF agree with you? But take that with a grain of sand because my background is Engineering not Econ.

First...I don't think 7.25 is a livable wage...to be clear. As for what is...well...that depends on the individual I suppose...but in todays world 7.25 amounts to 14.5 K per year before tax. Wheew...no bueno.

That said, we live in a country where, IF you can move about, you can find a job doing unskilled labor for more than minimum wage...for the most part. I know in my area you can pretty easily find an unskilled labor job starting around 12-15 per hour.

The problem is, the contingent of people who can't move about (which admittedly is tricky on minimum wage without public transportation) or have some extenuating circumstance, and are literally stuck at the mercy of 7.25.

Now, I don't know what that contingent is, how big, whereabouts geographically but...I am SURE it exists. To YOUR point, I don't know that we can make blanket policy changes for this contingent without really hurting small business. On the other hand...how long can small business retain workers when...in areas like mine...big companies are ALREADY PAYING a near or greater than 15 dollar minimum wage...WITHOUT a federal mandate.

Eventually...if you let it play out naturally...the big fish are going to gobble up the small fish anyway. People can't survive on 7.25...period. If small business wants to keep paying that as to not "hurt" their business...they may find themselves without a workforce eventually. Wouldn't you agree?

I think the bigger question is...how did we let big business get so big that small business can't compete with a 15 dollar minimum wage? What are we actually doing to ensure small business can stay competitive? Surely the answer can't be...drive said businesses employees into poverty.
  • 7 6
 @TotalAmateur: people are greedy, capitalism is the mechanism. Also it's well documented that in America especially, capitalism is out of control.
And people have this perception that they make good money because they and they alone are working hard for it, and justify it to themselves in this way. Plenty of people are working two jobs and still just get by or juggling work and raising children etc. It's a very self centred and arrogant way of thinking, but that's what most people are.
  • 4 7
 @Almazing: you've absolutely quoted things I haven't said.
And ya forgive me for not divulging personal information on the internet, but if you want to have an actual discussion on economics I think you'd find yourself pretty clearly out of depth.

and I get it, you have no substance so you name call. which is why you're not taken seriously, maybe if you actually understood the basics of the system you engage in you could stand to learn something, but alas calling people idiots and staying ignorant is probably way easier.
  • 8 3
 @MattyFive: I would counter that bringing kids into the world before you can provide for them is also self centered and and ignorant. but unfortunately for your rhetoric, any economic system proves that people are greedy. otherwise why is Hugo Chavez a billionaire? why is Putin? Or Xing?
  • 4 3
 @scbullit36: ah the big questions come out! Ya I don't really have answers, I just know that doing the same shit we have done and expecting different results is......well you know
  • 3 7
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 12:32) (Below Threshold)
 @Almazing: you are clearly someone who has never successfully run, owned, or even managed a successful business lol. "if you can't keep up with demands made by the labor market you shouldn't even hire labor" ya if there were only some way of automating all this low skill labor. OH WAIT!
  • 6 4
 @TotalAmateur:

The pull yourself up by your bootstraps work both ways.
  • 4 1
 @MattyFive: This is so true. Greed and arrogance come together. The border between success and failure is really thin. Sure, you need to be very persistent to be successful in anything but in reality vast majority can be successful only because many people are working on their success. The major difference is that for some reason they do not believe themselves or don't want to take any risks. I still remember talking to an owner of restaurant when she was complaining about how hard is to find workers and how much they want for their work. In reality they were paying sh*t, and they were able to build a nice house after like 2 years of running the business. They could easily pay even 10% more, find plenty of workers and still have plenty of money.
  • 12 8
 @Patrick9-32: wait what? I asked how much should someone get paid and you said "enough to live comfortably". that's not a number, if someone said that to me in a salary negotiation I would have no indication of what they want to get paid.

And you're avoiding the issue: rewarding low skill labor at a value that is higher than the profit it can generate, is economically inefficient. If someone flipping burgers can do more than burger flipping, then the onus on them to go and find a job that is consummate to the level of labor/profit they can bring to the table. Im not saying giant corporations don't take advantage of it, but to quote Louis C.K "maybe if someone with no contacts or connections in the country who doesn't even speak the language, can take your job, maybe the problem is YOU"

Hey i'd love for everyone to make $100/hr, the problem is you absolutely devalue the currency if suddenly a high school student can make $800 a day without doing a single thing for the company other than pour/serve/cook/clean. And again, you're facing the problem that as technology gets more sophisiticated, the easier it is to replace these jobs with robots, which is already happening, so you're not only incentivizing companies to employ workers for less hours, you're also incentivizing them to just replace them. At the end of the day, you can't force corporations to not profit maximize, no matter how much you stomp your feet. And at the end of the day, lots of small companies wont be able to cover the additional expenses, and although @Almazing stupidly thinks that that's justification for that company sinking, they're ignoring the fact that on a bigger scale these means rampant unemployment.

Like most of these ideas fall apart at the very next step of their implementation if everyone just thought through them enough.

If you have some sort of economic model that is representative of the US economy that shows raising minimum wage actually results in a net benefit for the average consumer and worker then I think that's a better place to make your argument instead of hypotheticals.
  • 2 6
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 12:49) (Below Threshold)
 @Almazing: are you just done trying to make sense?
  • 6 7
 @TotalAmateur:

I get what you’re saying, but you see, you’ve typed up a whole bunch of claims without citing any sources or case studies or models. Provide links.

‘Trust me, I’m an economist’ just doesn’t cut it.
  • 18 8
 @TotalAmateur: you sound like the sort of guy that if I met you out on the trails I would probably cycle another 10miles up hill just to avoid you mate!
  • 3 4
 @CM999: I didn't say that, you did. Try signing the lower right FRONT of checks instead of just the back... maybe then you'll be educated to talk about owning a business.
  • 2 4
 @Meganstuart1: that’s a good one. Can I use that sometime???
  • 9 1
 Yes it varies depending where you live. However explain to me how it is an employers responsibility to make sure YOU make enough money to suit your lifestyle and needs. That’s YOUR responsibility. Not mine. Not the states. Not the federal governments. YOURS. someone who invested their time, and money into starting a business is not less nobel than the employees they hire. @lukeisdumb:
  • 7 5
 @Almazing: see the thing is, I'm just putting out basic economic supply and demand theory, as well as labor elasticity facts. I can't send you a link that's going to explain the entirety of basic economics, unfortunately, but if you're actually interested in learning some economics and why minimum wage increases don't improve the livelihood of low skill laborers long term, then lmk and I can send you some good lectures to get you started on your journey to understanding Smile

"i get what you're saying" so you're acknowledging you understand the principles of economics but you're just not accepting them and instead calling me names because???
  • 5 7
 @Meganstuart1: ah man some random scot online doesn't like me, whatever will I do?! probably go buy a bottle of scotch without paying 40% tax on it, ahhh ya.
  • 6 5
 How much is a “living wage” ? What’s the number? I’m all ears. @Patrick9-32:
  • 6 5
 Again. It’s not your employers responsibility to make sure that you have money to suit your lifestyle and needs. That’s YOUR responsibility @Patrick9-32:
  • 3 7
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 13:42) (Below Threshold)
 @Jasonbourne: apparently same as the right number of bikes, "N + more"
  • 6 8
 @TotalAmateur:

See theory is great. But as we've all seen with the GME fiasco, theory sometimes is just that. Theory. But I'd prefer so see published works from people smarter than you or me about why minimum wage increases would collapse American society as we know it(sic).

PragerU, unfortunately, doesn't count. Neither do any right(or left) wing pundits, or individuals who've openly supported partisanship on either side. I'm clearly a left-wing liberal snowflake, but I still like to see unbiased studies and data.

Because in all honesty, and I don't mean this as an attack on you, your arguments are the same ones I've heard from the likes of PragerU, the Fox team, Ben Shapiro, and the rotting Rush Limbaugh, to name a few.
  • 8 3
 @Almazing: Just an observation: why have I found it to be the case that Liberals are far more open to science based policy, regardless of their preferred narrative, than Conservatives? Seriously, in my experience this is not just a bit of confirmation bias on my part, but a real phenomenon.
  • 6 3
 @Rageingdh: cheers mate, you can use any time you like especially when it comes to people like him lol
  • 5 6
 @Almazing: you know gravity is just a theory too right? you should go test it. Did anyone make the spurious claim (aside from you) that minimum wage increases would collapse society? Or are you just that out of your depth you have to dumb down the opposition so that you can feel validated?
And if you've heard these arguments so many times how come you can't substantiate your rebuttals even in the slightest?
raising minimum wage will have an insignificant and short term effect/benefit for low skill workers. Refute that please.
  • 7 10
 @Chuckolicious: you're literally talking about the party that thinks science doesn't dictate gender, or listen to any basic economic theory. You think shit like the Green New deal is rooted in economic certainties? Like sorry but STFU about listening to facts. lmmfao, not sure if you're trolling but holy shit your comment is a joke.
  • 5 8
 @Meganstuart1: also way to assume my gender, bigot.
  • 5 2
 @TotalAmateur: it’s whisky mate, and I would Na bother the stuff taste shit your better having a good gin mate!
  • 1 7
flag TotalAmateur (Mar 15, 2021 at 14:12) (Below Threshold)
 @Meganstuart1: ah a gin drinker, that explains it all.
  • 6 4
 @TotalAmateur:

That was a snarky remark on my part. A joke, even.

I have clearly made my side known on this debate. That being said, I’ve only expressed opinions that are my own and haven’t tried to pass them off as fact. I have no rebuttal because you’ve failed to provide sources for your claims.

I’m sure you know about the burden of proof, yes? You’ve made the claim. Provide some proof.

It’s that simple. Unless your proof comes from the ‘forbidden’ sources I’ve mentioned earlier.
  • 6 3
 @Almazing: Here you go: economics.mit.edu/files/4689
I'd recommend starting at page 20, where he starts by stating experience is essentially the only thing that elevate a laborers wage value.

duckduckgo.com/?q=minimum+wage+doesn%27t+help+the+poor&atb=v246-1&ia=web

here is an opinion piece from CNN: www.cnn.com/2021/02/09/perspectives/15-minimum-wage-biden-hurt/index.html

www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2019/07/10/the-unintended-consequences-of-the-15-minimum-wage/?sh=2251e83de4a7 (this is probably the most relevant source)


TLDR version; minimum wage hikes only helps a select few low wage earners, while hurting more across multiple income brackets.

Still need more? Your turn to provide some meaningful data.
  • 3 5
 @Meganstuart1: "him" keep being a bigot, showing your true colors here.
  • 5 2
 @TotalAmateur:

Thanks for this.

CNN is an opinion piece. I do appreciate that you’ve decided to post a left leaning news source, however. Though I dislike CNN because of their overbearing bias.

The Forbes article is writing by a CEO and founder or a large recruiting firm. So I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that he is financially and personally invested in keeping wages low and profits high. Also an opinion piece.

And the MIT link. Well that’s the down and dirty theory.

Since experience then is tied to wages, do you not think American society has been undervaluing job experience for say, the last 10, 15, maybe even 20 years?
  • 6 5
 @Almazing: you know you're going to sound a lot more credible if you can actually start addressing the ideas instead of the people sharing them. just a suggestion.


And no I don't. I think that capitalism for the most part rewards competency. Obviously there are flaws and exceptions, but by and large the people working minimum wage jobs at 711 or McDonalds aren't rocket scientists or dentists that couldn't find work.

So now the onus on you, provide some sort of data that shows a minimum wage increase will improve the livelihood of low income earners.

Btw interesting tid bit, did you know that union leaders are played in proportion to the other salaries in the union, so the tiers are proportionate to one another. Meaning if you vote for union workers to be paid more, you're also advocating for union heads to increase their multi million dollar salaries? bet ya didn't know that one.
  • 5 2
 @TotalAmateur:

And you'd actually be really credible if you did provide 2 opinion pieces from authors that are actual economists. Information, at least in this day and age, is only as credible as the author is.

I'm actually trying to break down my own argument here, but I'm not finding any articles stating that the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007 had any lasting negative or positive effects. Then again, it was so long ago that such data could be lost in the sea of search engines. In any case, this topic is so divisive and generally always will be.

Below is my opinion, and my opinion alone.

I personally feel that minimum wage, should at the very least, go up proportionally with the inflation percentage every year. $7.25 in 2019 doesn't hold the same weight as it did in 2009. And the federal economists should work with states and cities to study what is, and what isn't a living wage in their regions, congressional districts, counties, whatever. I'm a federal employee and we have COLA adjustments to our salary depending on region. It works well, but as a government job, it doesn't pay as well as a private company.

You can't honestly think that the $7.25 federal minimum wage is worth just as much as it was in 2009 do you?

fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42973.pdf

Here's some data from a real credible source.

TLDR, 1968 was the last time the minimum wage held any real value. And minimum wage, despite being raised 22 times, has not been able to keep up with inflation and the steady rise of consumer products. Purchasing power has been on the decline, and continues to do so.
  • 5 6
 @Almazing: dude I provided op-ed pieces as well as university studies, if you still want to ignore them as sources that speaks more to your inability to critically evaluate information from different sources, rather than their biases. When I read the Green new deal, it's easy to point the wholes out not because of how stupid AOC is as a person, but because of the contents of the bill. So too should you be able to refute the other articles even if you feel the people writing them have more nefarious reasons for their beliefs.

I gave multiple sources, opinion and otherwise, showing the adverse and negative externalities of the increased minimum wage. And for the most part states have their own minimum wage, so we're talking about a broader topic than just the federal minimum wage.

And no, no money is worth the same as it was 10 years ago, is that a serious question?? Nobody is arguing that inflation isn't real, or deflation for that matter.


What you need to prove to me, is that there is some overarching benefit to the MAJORITY of low skill laborers/low income earners, as a result of the minimum wage increase. I've provided my evidence to the contrary, and you provided stats that the purchasing power for goods bundles has decreased, which is natural considering the variety of goods produced has skyrocketed, leading to constant fluctuations in dollar valuations.

I'm not trying to be rude, but a lot of the things you're arguing are somewhat agreed upon or at least accepted elements of economics, which you could easily learn more about with some light reading. I know you'll probably call him a coon or uncle tom or a sellout, but "basic economics" by thomas sowell has a great amount of information about basic market equilibriums and inefficiencies.
  • 2 3
 @TotalAmateur: 'so consumers aren't going to foot the bill most likely'... complete and utter b@llocks mate! people thinking like you is not the entirety of consumers... and especially when food services are concerned people when they can - let me see proper livable minimum wages? - will pay the extra 53cents for their freaking burger... I would call for some somber self reflection, but I'm willing to bet it ain't gonna happen... capital uber alles?
  • 4 3
 @TotalAmateur:

Actually, no. I ignore biases by completely refusing to acknowledge opinion pieces on both sides. Clearly, those opinion pieces are speculating on the potential effects of another increase in minimum wage. We will never know what those real world effects are unless the minimum wage hike ever comes to pass. I can make speculations too, and so can you. Doesn't mean it's worth knowing about or backed by data. Opinion pieces aren't something I would call evidence to support your claims. Echo, echo, echo, echo.

Please stop projecting on me.

I don't believe I ever said that minimum wage would solve all of our problems. Hell, I do believe that it may even introduce new problems. I merely stated that the minimum wage, at minimum, should rise with inflation on a proportional level, whatever that dollar value may be. I provided you with data as to why I feel that the minimum wage has lost its purchasing power. And why I feel it should be raised proportionally with inflation, at a minimum. And I'll leave it at that.
  • 4 7
 @SyKon: what in the English f*ck were you trying to say? It reads like a drunken ramble by someone mid-stroke.

look at the amount of people who bitch and moan about a tariff that affects only luxury goods, and tell me people won't complain when prices go up. Your extremely limited focus on cheeseburgers would be great if the economy consisted solely of cheeseburgers and people. People already don't tip in the US, despite knowing that it directly goes to the server, so ya forgive me for not betting on the altruism of the masses.
  • 4 7
 @Almazing: you're literally misrepresenting my argument at every opportunity, even when you're trying to paraphrase my responses. I never said half the shit you are claiming, even about your opinions.

"doesn't mean its worth knowing about or backed up by data" ahhh the ignorance of the modern left.

The point you so painfully keep trying to avoid is: Show me that a minimum wage increase will positively affect the MAJORITY of low skill workers or wage earners. That's all you have to do, I provided multiple sources opinion based and otherwise showing that it won't have the intended effect, and that it might have the inverse effect, so please substantiate your claim somehow that I'm wrong..

or you could go back to putting your fingers in your ears and calling anyone with more understanding of the economy a "boot licker", which I hope by now you can realize was incredibly immature and a total waste of time. just because people understand something you struggle with shouldn't be a reason for condemnation. grow up buddeh.
  • 3 6
 @Almazing: ya but do you know what speculations without any data are called? guesses.
Do you know what speculation is called when it's based on facts and data? Analysis.

at this point its clear you're not going to provide anything worth reading, should have guessed from your initial statements. ignorance must surely be bliss. later
  • 5 1
 @Patrick9-32: How is it a straw man argument? If you're arguing for a "minimum wage" then you are arguing that price fixing / price controls work. Anyone with common sense, honesty and some econ 101 knows they don't. That's my point. You're the one with the straw man argument trying to justify $15/hr. It could be $5, $10 or $1,000 and my point does not change. Price fixing / controls contradict laws of supply and demand. By the way, good luck raising you family in most cities on $15/hr. Instead ask why are prices rising but wages are stagnant? Why is wall street and billionaires making billions when the middle class is shrinking? Look at how our fiat financial system works, how it punishes savers and rewards the politically connected.
See the late Walter Williams for more:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y97UqMZvvIE
  • 2 1
 @Patrick9-32: I like flesh puppets.
  • 3 2
 @TotalAmateur: woah! That’s kinda explosive of you, dontcha think? Jeez. :-/
  • 7 3
 @TotalAmateur: I think you're looking for the wrong thing. A minimum wage increase is a net beneficial measure in a broken system. Chances are a significant increase in minimum wage would result in a decrease of a couple percentage points (however you want to actually quantify that) in teen and some "lower-skilled" unemployment. However, that effect is overshadowed by the benefits of more stable jobs with living wages and associated productivity and mental health... among other things worker benefits!

What do we need? Systematic change! When do we need it? We never should've allowed large corporations and wealthy individuals to buy policy change that degrades collective bargaining!

www.brookings.edu/research/living-wage-laws-how-much-do-can-they-matter/#:~:text=Living%20wage%20laws%20have%20both,and%20modest%20reductions%20in%20poverty.
www.epi.org/publication/bp170
edlabor.house.gov/imo/media/doc/FactSheet-RaisingTheMinimumWageIsGoodForWorkers,Businesses,andTheEconomy-FINAL.pdf
www.apa.org/monitor/2016/04/living-wage
crownschool.uchicago.edu/ssa_magazine/living-wage-ordinances-are-not-model-minimum-wage
www.jstor.org/stable/2117925?casa_token=qY8OT6cFVokAAAAA%3A6GzLmi__k42eYKd6EuIBwskbnmu_wGqULuZJ1rs0pejQZu2JSb776D8oJJKK5fPp88oX6VM6FqfT0FsId_Nf9JtVGKAUvFcXNdMArDQYDhzvrbeRtNqa&seq=5#metadata_info_tab_contents

*Do note that limited peer-reviewed studies have been effectively conducted on this topic due to its complexity! The body of evidence is widely inconclusive, thus the general economic analysis is reasonable.

*Also note that an economics course guide is relatively meaningless in supporting a point of view as it outlines various economic strategies but doesn't offer information addressing our current question.
  • 8 4
 @TotalAmateur: Please consider being more civilized.
  • 4 8
flag Meganstuart1 (Mar 15, 2021 at 23:46) (Below Threshold)
 @TotalAmateur: I think you might be lost mate and you ended up on the wrong site, I think you typed in pinkbike instead of pink boys!
  • 12 1
 Oh boy. It looks to me like the current situation in the US is working well for fewer and fewer individuals, and by many measurements the current system is broken. I don't know what the fix is, I wish I did. I don't claim to be an economist--but even the most educated economists disagree on what the best solution is. However, this is my experience in an area that raised the minimum wage via mandate (Oregon). I'm not arguing that this will happen everywhere, but for your consideration:

I sold my house in Oregon, but decided to stay local for a bit while I tied up some loose ends, and so that I could ride Oregon trails through the summer. I had already set an end date with my employer, and I just wanted a gig that would be like 4-6 months and something where I can just show up, work, and go home. No take home work and no stress. A buddy got me on with him doing light construction work.. like landscape maintenance, fence repairs, nothing all that technical. I started at $15/hr. Just 3 years prior that same position started at $12.25, which, at the time, was quite a bit higher than the minimum wage in the area of $9.75. You worked outside in the elements, rain or shine, and were compensated for it with a fair bit more than minimum wage. But as I mentioned above, Oregon voted to raise the minimum wage over a period of years, starting in 2016(?). *I* voted to raise the minimum wage, even though at the time I made a pretty decent salary.

The section manager explained his plight to me at one point. In a nutshell what happened was this: What used to be a nice bump up in pay for what is essentially low-skilled labor was now the floor for all jobs in the area. So he was having a haaaard time getting people who wanted to come work outside in the rain for 7 months of the year when they could make the same wage working in a climate controlled place like Target, a coffee shop, etc. It didn't help that you had to pass a pee test to get hired (in Oregon, ha) because we worked with heavy machinery on occasion. So he had to start offering a higher starting wage to even get people to apply. Even then, a good deal of them were just crap from what he said. He liked me because I showed up and worked hard and had a good attitude (I didn't stress over the job because I knew it was temporary)--and I had department management experience, so we would talk about that side of operations sometimes. Well guess what... *his* boss was like hey man, the company can't just pay all these new hires $15/hr, you'll have to raise your bids for contract work to compensate. So he did. And the few large apartment complexes that they contracted with just said well ok, we still need your services, and everyone seems to be charging more these days, so it is what it is. The apt complexes just cover that cost by hiking rent the maximum allowed each year.. and people need a place to live, so what are they gonna do, not pay it? Additionally, morale in the shop was an all-time low because the new hires were making as much as the guys who had been there for 4+ years.. these guys had 4, 5, 6 years experience, making the same as any new dummy walking in off the street. "Just pay them more"? And then what, hike bid prices even higher?

A federal minimum wage of $7.25 is absurd, and far behind the times. But then again, I've seen the cascading effects of a $15/hr hike in real life. Calling it a "living wage" is a farce, because it is completely relative. How nice of a dwelling should I be afforded for trading 40hrs of my labor? Which neighborhood can it be in? How much food, how nice of food.. organic, or gov't cheese? How new of a cell phone do I deserve? I don't know the answers.

I just need metal frames, good suspension, wheels that don't taco and I'm pretty good...
  • 3 2
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: I try but I can only take so much blind ignorance without getting frustrated. good articles though, my entire point was that the effects of a minimum wage increase aren't net positive, at least not from what I can find. I have yet to see any information to the contrary.
  • 3 2
 @Meganstuart1: you're bigotry and pedophilia remarks are really getting tiresome, grow up.
  • 41 2
 Whether bike brands "announce" price increases or not, they're coming. Yes demand has skyrocketed, but that is not the only logistical factor facing bicycle companies and component manufacturers right now.

Literally things as simple as finding raw cardboard for packaging is proving to be impossible due to the increase in demand for online shopping etc.

I cite port delays... Boats waiting to be unloaded due to not being able to dock. Massive delays. Do you think the shipping companies are not offsetting the fact that they are being delayed with price increases? www.freightwaves.com/news/inside-californias-colossal-container-ship-traffic-jam

All of these increased logistical hurdles are costing companies more money in getting product to your door. Its not as simple as "bike companies are being greedy".
  • 18 0
 I import raw materials from China. Shipping is stupidly insane and has been for the past year. Cubed 4 x 8 pallet was 1600 USD to airfreight in 2019 is now 8000 + in some scenarios. Also, don't even try shipping near a National Chinese Holiday, can easily add another 2 weeks of lead time to your material.
  • 10 0
 A large part of the inflation is due to COVID driven shift in buying patterns and from monetary stimulus. In 2020 a lot of recreational activities moved outdoor which allowed people to social distance. You will hear bike companies say this will continue but it’s nonsense. As soon as countries emerge from lockdown a segment of the market will shift back to other interests (e.g. drinking beer and throwing axes). I am starting to see it in my local market on Facebook bike market. A fair number of relatively new high end bikes are up for sale. Also pricing power is determined by demand, today material inflation is driving a good bit of the increase so manufacturers are passing on while they can and before the market cools off. In February / May of 2020 global trade fell off a cliff. This you can see by looking at the Baltic shipping index which then quickly reversed. The shipping cost increase was the result of firms slamming the brakes on the supply chain and then reversing when it appeared COVID wasn’t the end of the world. Everyone is playing catch up now.
  • 8 0
 Many brands have raised prices without an official announcement - for example Rocky Mountain jacked their prices by around the same amount, but haven't published a formal announcement of this.
  • 3 1
 @ratedgg13: True, RM just pushed up every bike trim one price tier higher. Which is more than 8-12%.
  • 2 0
 Yes, I know of another pretty big brand that has raised prices without doing a press release and it hasn't been mentioned on PB yet. They did let us dealers know, though.
  • 2 0
 @Geoman: it's more than just demand for bikes, and everything else though. We've printed something like 35% of all US dollars in existence just last year. The fact is the dollar is far less valuable than it was in 2019. I don't think these prices are changing unless there's a huge shift in US monitary policy. And similar situations for most of Europe.
  • 3 0
 @DylanH93: I don’t disagree with you, the monetary policy is crazy. Our politicians have promised things they know they can’t deliver. The only options are monetization or default over the long term. They will not default but they will monetize like hell which will eventually drive inflation like crazy.
  • 1 0
 @barp: cannondale?
  • 2 0
 I'm not denying the cost increase of materials, but it still feels like gouging. Watched a video on Vital yesterday from Push Industries. They have seen their costs go up but somehow have not passed those on to the consumer. So, at the end of the day a business has to decide, do I raise my prices along with everyone else and stick it to the customer? Or do I find ways to keep my costs down and stay loyal to my customers and/or principals?
  • 38 2
 Rosé Bikes now
  • 12 10
 Rosé is cheap wine
  • 5 1
 @fracasnoxteam:
And oh so good.
  • 4 0
 @fracasnoxteam: Champagne Rosé isn't that cheap Wink
  • 4 10
flag fracasnoxteam (Mar 15, 2021 at 8:21) (Below Threshold)
 @granjak: cheap taste
  • 4 0
 @fracasnoxteam: n’importe quoi
  • 2 0
 Funny you should say that--it just clicked for me that "Rose" is the surname of the company owner. Being a German name, shouldn't it be pronounced with two syllables? Though it would be "RO-zuh", not "ro-ZAY".
  • 2 0
 This is the Champagne of comments.
  • 2 0
 @Forest-Gnome: arguing about wine with a Frenchman is like arguing with a dog about a bone
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: surtout avec un con de bourguignon comme moi :-)
  • 1 0
 @fracasnoxteam: ouh là, oui !
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: T'inquiètes, le rosé c'est pas que pour la côte d'azur hein Wink
  • 1 0
 @Forest-Gnome: j'allais te contredire mais je viens d'en trouver dans le frigo
  • 31 9
 Personally, I think the price of a bicycle is now starting to become a joke. When you break down what a bicycle is made of to the raw materials (aluminium, carbon, rubber etc), and that most are mass produced in factories by machines in bulk, bike companies are now just rubbing their hands together at our expense.
Bicycles are becoming the new cars. The prices are becoming so prohibitive, that the only way to buy a nice car is through financing, or now even cheaper through leasing. You only have to go to any bike website now to see that finance is available on pretty much all bikes, and even components now.
YT's newly released bikes have proved it doesn't have to be this way. Their Jeffsy Core 2 bike is amazing value for money. To me, this exposes the likes of Santa Cruz and Specialized for that they are, lovely looking bikes, but WAY overpriced.
  • 16 3
 High end bike prices have risen a lot due to 2 things:

1) Inflation
2) Bike companies will design and sell what people will pay for

Inflation's a bitch, and is only part of the story.
An S-Works Enduro in 2005 cost $US 5500, today it's $US 10500. (+91%)
Adjusted for inflation, that '05 Enduro would be $US 7500 (+36%) in today's money.

We're footing the bill for how much better bikes are than they were 15 years ago, and we seem to love it.
But as always the bulk of bikes on the trail are not the highest-end ones. Your average trailbike is a better value than decades ago. Here is a case where trickle-down actually works:
In 2021 for less than $3000 ($2200 in '05 dollars) you can go buy (disclaimer: covid...) a Marin Alpine Trail or a Nukeproof Reactor with modern geo, modern damping, meaty tubeless tires, and a dropper post. The old '05 S-Works Enduro would have a hard time keeping up. And didn't even have a water bottle in the frame. lol
  • 10 0
 correct, bike prices are absurd or a long while now. But if everybody keeps buying, why are companies gonna stop?

And staying on topic of this article.. Rose has great bikes at incredible price points. Even with this increase they have a much better value than say YT, which increased their marketing budget and bike pricing once people over the pond got its popularity.
  • 4 2
 @chrod: How would you argue with sense and facts? this is pinkbike! take your logical processes and f*** out of here.

Bike brand X bad. Bike brand Y good. Oh, and f*** e-bikes, too.
  • 8 2
 Since you bring up the raw materials...

“Since the start of 2020, aluminum is up 15%, and rubber is up by 50% or more. Steel prices were up about 20% in 2020, and China Steel Corp., Taiwan’s biggest steel maker, announced another 9.5% price increase on Jan. 14.

Even corrugated cardboard is up 10% in the last year, with a sharp price increase in the commodity cost at the end of 2020.”

www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2021/02/05/take-hike-bike-prices-expected-go-again#.YE-OhCX3YlQ

Add in Brexit for you and Trump’s tariff war with China for us. I’m surprised the prices haven’t gone up more considering the crushing demand for stuff.
  • 3 1
 @chrod: Thanks for the inflation comparison. It's wild that 15 years yields 36%. As Brian Park says, high end has gotten higher, but agreed the low end has actually gotten much better, albeit much heavier. But still probably lighter than that 2005 Enduro!
  • 2 0
 There are definitely still good deals out there but prices are getting crazy. So glad I bought my new bike last Feb right before the huge demand increase. Got my Mythique VRS on sale for $1440. Then it went back to normal price of $1800. Then it got a price increase to $2k. And I'm sure it will probably go up even further not to mention it's practically impossible to get one in the first place. I'm just thankful I happened to buy when I did.
  • 22 1
 “The boom is not stopping” — much hubris? Every boom comes to an end. Once the plague recedes people will go back to doing whatever they used to be doing. I mean, what lowest-common-denominator human really wants to sweat for 2 hours and then risk injury when they can be sitting at the bar, watching football?
  • 8 0
 My neighborhood is full of Peloton bikes in garages. It sounds like a spin class every couple days out there...
But by next year those bikes will be $2-3k clothes hangers when people go back to work, the gym, and resume more normal activities.
  • 3 0
 Cannot upvote this comment enough...."lowest common denominator human"....perfect!
  • 19 0
 Never thought dirt biking would become cheaper than mountain biking.
  • 5 0
 Depends on what dirt bikes you ride. My 91 CR250 and 97 KX500 combined cost less than one of my mountain bikes. Old 2 strokes still run great, easy to find parts and work on. It's nice having a 2 hobbies that you can enjoy year round.
  • 34 18
 Who cares. They won’t send them to England any way Smile
  • 193 26
 you ordered your brexit, you got your brexit Smile
  • 10 8
 And who cares that they want send them to England??
  • 23 37
flag McArdle (Mar 15, 2021 at 6:01) (Below Threshold)
 @Sethimus: didn’t order bitterness as we aren’t EU family anymore tho
  • 38 4
 @McArdle: tell that @bigwill13, the reason why rose won‘t ship to the uk lays in the uk´s new import laws that puts the burden of collecting duties on the company instead of customs like in every other country on earth.
  • 49 4
 @Sethimus: We didn't all order it :-)
  • 27 35
flag Whipperman (Mar 15, 2021 at 6:09) (Below Threshold)
 Should have thought twice before voting for British Trump.
  • 15 3
 @Sethimus: only 1/3rd of us, not the majority
  • 26 6
 The real reason they stopped selling to the UK is that the UK is not a profitable country for Rose bikes. (Don't believe any marketing spin beyond this, its how business works).
If Rose bikes were making good margins and profit from the UK, they would have continued to sell here.
As it was, a wee bit of paperwork tipped them over the edge and they used it as their excuse to exit the UK market (pretty sure Rose bikes had a UK market share of 1%).
  • 14 1
 @betsie: Agreed, and when you complain about having to swap brakes over for the UK and use that as an excuse to stop selling here then the market can't have been great anyway.

www.bikeradar.com/news/rose-bikes-not-available-uk
  • 18 26
flag drjonnywonderboy (Mar 15, 2021 at 7:09) (Below Threshold)
 @Sethimus: We got Brexit, we got the DH World Champs and the DH overall World Cup. Our little Island is absolutely smashing it.
  • 6 13
flag drjonnywonderboy (Mar 15, 2021 at 7:11) (Below Threshold)
 @betsie: I thought the dropped some BS about brake leavers being on the correct sides in the UK as well and that caused problems for them.
  • 6 3
 @MaSz1: People in England, idiot.
  • 2 0
 Hopping on a ryanair Plane and collecting it in Germany will probably be cheaper and faster
  • 2 6
flag randalliser (Mar 15, 2021 at 8:27) (Below Threshold)
 @RBorek: Thats damn right mate at least half of us didn’t want brexit. That won’t stop Sethimus having another pop at us though, it’s what he does. (Whistles Dads Army theme)
  • 2 5
 @randalliser: you failed to inform the silent majority properly. lots of young ppl couldn’t be bothered to vote
  • 2 1
 @Sethimus: not sure if that's true? Supposedly the referendum had the youngest voter turn out ?
  • 2 3
 @nojzilla: a bit more than normal, but not enough considering what was at stake: www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/181252/1/dice-report-2017-4-50000000000852.pdf
  • 6 1
 @Sethimus: why presume that I voted for brexit? It’s absolutely f*#king everything up here. I just think rose bikes are sh#t simple as that.
  • 4 2
 @Sethimus: lots of old people didn’t bother. Lots of middle aged people didn’t bother. What’s your point
  • 8 5
 Lmao you guys in the UK will be fine. Y'all already have tons of amazing British boutique brands to buy from. Plus places like CRC for more value brands like vitus and nukeproof. Out of anyone you guys should be the least worried. Love how the Europeans love to act like you guys are screwed lol. Leave some brands for the rest of us!
  • 17 0
 Every Rose has its Thorn
  • 5 2
 Seems like we have been welcomed to the jungle
  • 9 2
 seems pretty reasonable. Shops are sold out and backed up with labor, material costs are up, demand is sky high.

I don’t hear anyone complaining about selling their 5 year old bike for damn near what they paid and upgrading.

There’s a lot of new people, there’s going to continue to be, and the companies are going to have to adjust to meet demand. And until the supply chain issues are sorted, it’s going to be who wants to pay the most. It’s no secret they don’t have a problem selling any of these
  • 11 4
 Hey Pinkbike, can we get a pole that asks price thresholds on bike tiers? So like "What would be your max you would pay for a Fox Factory XO1 build kit from **Insert boutique brand here**. ANd then the same for a GX, Rockshox build etc. I think we are all scratching our heads wondering when the plateau will happen...if at all? I mean, do we get to $10k on a factory, X01 build or will the 5 figures only ever be AXS level kit?...
  • 4 0
 That one would be tricky. A lot of people on PB work in the industry. Since I can buy stuff on employee discount or pro deal, I refuse to pay retail for pretty much any bike stuff already.
  • 9 0
 I noticed Marin bikes increased their prices recently too. It’s too bad wages haven’t been keeps my pace with cost of living and inflation.
  • 8 1
 Companies that believe the “boom is not stopping” may be on for a rude awakening. These companies are all assuming that the consumer will tolerate these increases. I’m not arguing the costs are not necessary. However, %10 instant prices jumps are enough to stall the purchasing frenzy. I’m probably wrong but I guess we’ll see soon enough.
One thing is for certain; my ‘19 Bronson looks better each day. SC won’t be getting anymore sales out of me...again not because they are greedy per se, but that the increases have priced them out of future consideration. These price increases are certainly changing the way I look at new bikes, especially high end.
  • 1 0
 I guess what they mean by "the boom is not stopping" is

"We have over a year of production already ordered, anything you order now or in the next 12 months will be affected by this boom even if in stops today and we get no more orders for the rest of 2021. Suppliers are unable to keep up with demand and are informing us of delays daily so delivery schedules are slipping further and further, every element of our business is increasing in cost. We will likely need to increase our pricing again to stay afloat unless things start moving in the other direction soon."
  • 8 1
 I was going to say something about greed and price gouging but I now think they should raise prices 50%

The boom has been good for everyone except people who actually enjoy riding bikes on a regular basis. The sooner it ends, the better for actual riders.
  • 2 0
 I’ve made a pretty penny on old stuff I had lying around that wasn’t old enough to be classic/retro and not new enough to be modern.
  • 2 0
 @DHhack: Haha, same I've cleaned out just about every single bike part or PC component in my stash over the past year!
  • 6 1
 So seriously, how cheap does a bike have to be to keep the proletariat happy? I don't know much about Rose, but they show FS bikes "Rose Ground Control" starting at 1700 pounds. Once you hit 2600 it's a pretty good usable spec- so 2860 after price hike. shimano 8100 groupset, pike select charger 2 fork, mavic crossmax wheels. That doesn't seem like gouging with that spec. You might be able to find better deals, but they're apparently assembled in Germany - I didn't see where the frames were welded though. Certainly not being put together in a cambodian labor camp. Seems like I see the same comments by the same commenters on bike after bike and they want XO1 carbon for $2500. So seriously, what is reasonable to you po's? When is it ok to raise prices?
  • 5 0
 go to your local shop. it's good to support the locals, they may do you good discount and make your a cuppa....plus if anything happens to it you are not too far away to get it sorted...
  • 1 0
 I tried that late last year when looking to replace my trail bike. The owner, who I've known for over a decade just laughed and said "I have no idea what I can get in the next 6 months , let alone in a few weeks!". Went to the shop last week to pick up some parts I'd ordered a few months back (yes, months. Long lead times on Shimano mechs!) and the showroom was empty, 2 bikes and a small cluster of clothing. Everything else was already sold and on long backorder. He had no idea when he'll next have stock to sell!
Thankfully I've got a new bike on order that's due in May but I'm one of the lucky ones, lots of people are going to be disappointed this year. Whatever you do don't break one of your bikes!
  • 1 0
 @DaMilkyBarKid: yeh true, it’s a bit bleak for sure. I also waiting n a new frame coming in May. I was lucky getting one sorted for May.
  • 10 2
 Holy shit a lot of pinkbikers need to take a remedial economics class.
  • 5 1
 When petrol prices drop, do they lower their prices? They first made us throw our 26 bikes, then our 650b, then our standard hubs....Now they are selling bikes like crazy, they just use covid as an excuse to increase their prices instead of admitting offer and demand law usage. They are, in fact, selling more due to covid .. I think they're surprised on how silly we are....MY NEXT BIKE IS GOING TO BE A 26" 2ND HAND BIKE. And I consider myself advanced andI also can afford a new bike, just want to fu&€ them...
  • 4 3
 yeah bro. enjoy your rigid 26er with 3X7 and rim brakes. gonna be a hoot!
  • 5 0
 @conoat: You mean full kashima commencal meta v3/specialized enduro/intense tracer/lapierre spicy/yt capra/giant reign for... let's say 600€??? Wouldn't you kill for those bikes just 7 years ago? What happended those last 7 years that everything changed? I still see the 2008 specialized sx trail more progressive than many recent 29ers...
Can't you do whips, scrubs and rip berms on those bikes? Please, let me know, I don't want to waste my money XD.
You can even make a mullet if you want. I think if you ride at least one 650b wheel you are still cool.
  • 5 2
 Ey I mean. Of cause I want a new two wheeled firecracker with all the new sh*t on. But a) I got my 2010 Nukeproof Mega wich is still good enough to let rich kids and dentist eat my dust in a bikepark and b) I`m a young dude with a good job but still I don`t have enough money to blow out 5k (I know they start at like 3) on a ducking mountainbike. I mean I don`t want to pay rent forever sooo...
  • 6 0
 2022: Base model alu bike starts at 7500 CAD with SX Eagle and Rockshox 35.
  • 4 1
 I love the complete ignorance of most comments on price adjustments due to material cost. But then again, most of the kids these days will never attempt to start a large business in which the inputs have variable change and demand is a constant moving target. Obviously the people in the comment section on PB are the true experts, perhaps they can start a bike company with a negative gross profit margin. I'll grab a bag of popcorn and watch...
  • 2 0
 Not directed at Rose but the industry as a whole. With the travel restrictions due to Covid were MFG's still spending the same dollars on sponsor ships and there racing programs? What about operational costs? Did they retain there entire workforce? When you take a look at MFG (A) and there 10K+ USA carbon Gravel bike vs MFG (B) and there equivalent bike for 6K -7K what gives. A few things that come to mind. MFG (A) is a huge global brand with a massive global racing program in all disciplines and MFG (B) has no racing program. Do I care if I see my brand in the Tour or World Cup races. Hell no.
  • 4 2
 Well, there's this bullwhip effect. When this pandemic is over and international travel, gyms, bars, etc are open 100%, there will be a lot of bikes on the floor and fewer people buying them. Good luck with your price increase.
  • 4 2
 Their hands are tied. I don't think you understand the extent of what is going on. Shipping prices are up, material costs are up, components are in short supply, packaging has gone up. It is not Rose saying "why don't we cash in on this huge demand?" It sucks for all of us in the industry right now....
  • 5 2
 Be honest bike manufacturers, demand is outstripping supply so you are profiteering. cut all the raw materials bulls$%t and just admit the board of directors have instructed you to make them richer.
  • 2 1
 The board of directors at these bike companies you mentioned seems to have influenced the press...


"Aluminum Prices Push Toward 2020 High on Sanction Worries, Demand
The metal has gained more than 13% year-to-date
Dec. 18, 2020

Aluminum prices are trading near their highest levels in almost two years, fueled by soaring demand for raw materials and worries that potential new U.S. sanctions on one of the world’s largest producers could limit global supplies of the metal.

Aluminum, used in everything from jet engines to electric vehicles, has surged more than 40% from its May lows, with contracts for delivery in three months closing at $2056.50 Friday, near the 2020 high of $2064.50 hit earlier this month. It has now gained more than 13% year-to-date."
www.wsj.com/articles/aluminum-prices-push-toward-2020-high-on-sanction-worries-demand-11608308859
  • 3 2
 @chrod: so you thing the cost of the ally in a bike frame is $500-$1200 raw materials, its around $2000 per ton.
  • 1 0
 @b45her: Just saying, raw material cost increases account for some part of bike price hikes.
Raw material cost will be passed from the supplier to the bike frame manufacturer, and on down the line. Same for rubber, plastic, carbon, increased shipping costs due to lack of supply, etc until the final product.
I'm pretty certain Rose and Santa Cruz et al knew that they would lose some customers with price hikes. There are many alternatives and Rose bikes are still a pretty good value.
  • 2 0
 WOW! Anything to do with mountain biking right now is already way over priced and everyone just needs to ride the same bike for years. Companies are being greedy, you can buy a quad or multiple dirt bikes for the price of one mtb!!!
  • 1 0
 So the container shipping price issue was caused by empty containers being stranded in destination ports, while all the demand is coming from the need for containers in origin ports (asia). Once containers have been constructed or moved around to meet demand, prices will come back down on shipping.

The big question: will bike companies reduce prices to reflect that?
  • 1 0
 @utrider: I think the biggest problem is can the smaller stores or mom and pop shops afford to compete and pay the higher wages. If they cannot we are just adding to their demise. I don't know what the answer is on such a complicated question.
  • 1 0
 I tried to order Enve M630s today. Availability, 10/27!!!
Wtf is going on? Yeah, covid blabla, people started riding. But a) Enve makes their rims in house and who as a beginner buys $1000 rims. What is going on in this industry right now!?!?
  • 2 0
 Jesus. I'd heard of stuff not being available until 2022. But October of 2027 is outrageous Wink
  • 3 0
 Everything going up but the wages. Understandable from a business point of view but pretty sickening considering the price of stuff before.
  • 3 0
 “Due to COVID we’re putting our prices up”
Translation
“Due to demand we’re putting our prices up, but using 2020 as an excuse”
Said all bike companies.
  • 12 8
 Never heard of them, I’ll just keep my 8-12%
  • 5 2
 You wanna stop selling out all inventory? Because this is how you stop selling out inventory.
  • 6 1
 which inventory?
  • 1 0
 @Sethimus: ????????????
  • 3 0
 It’s interesting how covid has increased the price of literally everything. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
  • 1 0
 I have never seen a Rose bike in the UK. I heard they pulled out of the UK due to brexit? But was it even a market for them, probably the nail for them in their decision making
  • 20 21
 Would be really nice to see manufacturers (in all industries) willing to take a 8-12% hit to their bottom line for 1-2 fiscal years instead rather than passing it to consumers. We all know once Covid is gone and the supply chain returns to normal that prices aren't coming back down, so taking the hit would be a lot more inline with what the majority of consumers are also feeling in terms of their own income and expenses during these times. If this keeps happening across the board (which it is) it just means inflation is driving higher while incomes are staying the same which is recipe for what? Ah, another recession...
  • 2 0
 oops
  • 6 0
 the supply chains will never return to normal. The geopolitics around Taiwan and SEA are very sensitive at this point
  • 5 2
 I'll take it you've never heard of making hay while the sun shines?
  • 7 0
 Wishful thinking, but that is not the way business works -- the leadership team are accountable for performance to their investors or shareholders. While taking a 8-12% haircut on a temporary basis sounds like the "right thing to do", it's not realistic and will never happen.
  • 7 1
 Citation for every industry raising their prices 8-12%? Because otherwise you're just complaining about MTBs becoming more expensive, and pretty sure no recessions ever started because of middle aged dudes not buying luxury goods... Also Dorel Sports made a whopping $50 million operating profit in FY 2020 on $1 billion of revenue (which tightened to $2 million on $250 million revenue in Q4!) so your 'accepting a 8-12% hit to the bottom line' turns into 'bankrupt the entire company' in a couple of quarters. If people wonder why nobody makes money in the bike industry, they should read comments like yours...
  • 9 0
 I’m guessing you’ve never worked in the bike industry. There isn’t much margin to begin with. Your idea would drive every small company out of business and take the big players like SRAM, Shimano, Giant and Velo to the brink of bankruptcy.
  • 4 0
 There's a reason why they are called businesses and not charities
  • 10 1
 @peleton7: I would take it a step further and guess they have no knowledge of how any business works. No business is going to accept an 8-12% drop in their bottom line to "do the right thing". They wouldn't be a business for long with that sort of attitude.
  • 4 0
 @mtmc99: I've worked in the bike industry and also own a business. Fully aware how business works. I didn't say take a 8-12% hit to your bottom line. I'm saying it would be nice to see businesses adjust short term profitability and flatten top line revenue during the crappy periods instead of passing everything along to consumers. I'm not one of these free handout clowns, but I think it's hogwash that I'm supposed to be feeling bad that doral sports only took in $50m in operating profit during a year where everything went to hell. I get it, it's wishful think at the macroeconomic level that businesses would actually do something altruistic
  • 4 0
 On the official accounting books, a lot of bikes in the market are making less than 15% for the OE and or distributors.

Where some money could be saved is if overseas invoices were not payed via a tax haven with a few percent creamed off for the company owners before the actual invoice was paid. Governments, Germany included turn a blind eye to that.
  • 2 0
 @man4sure: I'm glad to see a business owner that isn't a corporate and capitalist bootlicker.
  • 1 0
 What do you think the chances are of that? I mean, I definitely get what you're saying. Shit I wish one time a month when I went to the grocery store they'd comp my whole cart. Prices keep going up, the amount I've given them is crazy lol.
  • 2 0
 Damn, I was in the market for a new bike this year too. Oh wait, no I wasnt.
  • 4 2
 Oh well, plenty of much better bikes out there that people would rather buy lol
  • 4 3
 I’m done!!! We’re already spending way to much damn money on this sport. Figure out Local manufacturing and stop relying on overseas manufacturing/ importing!!!
  • 1 0
 Bike availability is crazy right now. I went to the lbs to order my daughter a new bike. Was told that any trek bike was no back ordered until August 2022!
  • 2 3
 The cost of bikes has seriously gotten out of hand.. now that our sport has been discovered.. it's time to blow the cost out of the water and make it an elitist thing with only the wealthy to truly get something decent.

My commencal was a 9k build and previous antidotecarbon jack was a 15k build .. it's it worth that... hell no..

Dirt/motor bikes are far more complicated and in most aspects, high tech.. and mtbs are starting to command those prices.. for items made in China/taiwan by people so underpaid.. no this is purely price gouging because the market will pay it.

I'm ashamed of what's happened..

I'll be building my own bike next time..
  • 2 1
 "no this is purely price gouging because the market will pay it."

you don't have to pay it. £1000 bikes are better than they have ever been before. You can get a great fun bike for a reasonable amount of money. Are there better bikes out there? Of course there are. Nobody is saying the entire car industry is insane and out of control and pricing people out of car ownership because a new ferrari costs £250,000.
  • 1 1
 Not sure that anyone is aware but in the past few months the price of raw materials, specifically aluminum, has gone up 10%-15%. Rose isn't being greedy, they're just trying to cover this loss.
  • 2 0
 By next summer, do they mean 2022 or in a few months time?
  • 1 0
 2022
  • 4 2
 ...Cause bikes weren't already expensive enough...
  • 2 0
 Can’t believe prices Rose
  • 1 0
 its ok tho as my industry in construction also promises a 8-12% in my pay packet.
  • 2 0
 Sweet now I can sell all my used bikes for 8 to 12% more!!
  • 1 0
 Is this price increase issue happening in other sports? I feel like cycling's copping the majority of this issue.
  • 1 0
 I don't know about sports but good luck to you if you want reasonably priced computer parts right now. There's even word of widespread semiconductor shortages on the way, which will affect everything.
  • 1 1
 Pinkbike: *mentions German direct to consumer bike brand*

Doublecrownaddict: *grabs pitchfork and starts screaming incoherently about nazis*
  • 1 1
 You appear to have jumped the gun somewhat.
  • 1 1
 @boozed: you appear to have not looked into his ridiculous post history... just don’t disagree with him on anything or you will be called a nazi too.
  • 1 0
 Of course, we would also prefer to keep the old prices. Unfortunately, we prefer profit
  • 1 0
 Why even mention this rose bikes customer service for anyone outside of the eu is shit or non existent anyways
  • 1 0
 Yeah, right, order now as if they were available.
  • 6 0
 Haha, exactly. The current delivery time for the Root Miller 2 is 36 weeks. Big Grin Ordered mine in December, and it got postponed from June to the end of October so I cancelled.
I wonder even if you order a bike right now will you actually receieve it in Oct-Nov, or if the delivery date is just going to get postponed over and over again.
  • 2 1
 Buy now, ride later...much, much, much later...
  • 4 5
 There’s so much more to it than that. Price for raw material, shipping material, air/freight transport etc have all skyrocketed in the last year. Not to mention those tariffs the lovely Donald Trump instated. Price of everything has gone up. I do a little woodworking at home for extra cash. The price of lumber has doubled, and even tripled for some species. Even though I have a higher demand with more people shopping from home, I’ve still had to increase my prices. Why? Simply because the price of every step for me to get lumber has increased
  • 1 0
 @ahauck: The shipping increases confuse me. Fuel prices tanked over the past year, yet shipping went up.
  • 1 0
 @Chuckolicious: massive demand for materials and goods have led to a huge shortage in shipping containers. In order to reserve a shipping container, companies are paying a higher premium to get them
  • 1 2
 @Chuckolicious: ships dont run on gasoline....so your 'fuel price' argument is moot.
Its supply and demand. fewer flights = less space available for freight = more pressure on the ships.
  • 4 0
 @thedirtyburritto: There are more types of fuel than Gasoline, ships don't run on fairy dust.
  • 2 0
 @thedirtyburritto: Yea, I know what bunker fuel is. I said "fuel". But let me broaden that to crude oil prices, which normally directly correlate to shipping costs. Yea, I can see the fewer flights/ships thing being an issue, and had no idea about the shipping container wrinkle. Interesting stuff.
  • 1 0
 @thedirtyburritto: this might be the dumbest thing anyone has ever said on PB. I literally did a face palm when I read your comment. Please tell me that was a joke.
  • 1 0
 @Chuckolicious: Indeed, you said fuel, I guess I assumed that most folks outside of an OEM shipping related industry might not see the difference in the various fuels and not realize that different industries are affected differently by oil price swings...my bad.

@garrisond5 If you doubt me, then I invite you to share what info you have from your factories and vendors in Taiwan, China and Vietnam....oh you dont have these connections, nor do you know anyone who does? Well then, move along.

Of course its not as simple as 'no flights = more expensive surface freight' But I will tell you this: when there are no more flights and the pressure to have faster surface freight from Asia to Europe or USA increases, then some ships will increase their cruising speed to -for example- knock a week off their transit times, if this is done the fuel usage per transit increases exponentially, this of course is a big factor on surface shipping costs.
  • 1 0
 @thedirtyburritto: My statement was regarding your absolutely moronic statement that ships don't use fuel. Everything you said after is disqualified.
  • 1 0
 @garrisond5:
Well if you want to split hairs, then I'll be happy to point out for a second time that you are wrong. I never said they dont use fuel, I said they dont run on gasoline, which is true. Gasoline is a type of fuel, but fuel is not always gasoline.

Reading comprehension. look it up mate.
  • 1 0
 @thedirtyburritto: keep swingin bro!
  • 3 3
 Why would anybody want to buy Rose bikes?! They are ugly as f*ck and looks stupid...
  • 1 0
 I am increasing my salary by 20%. Pandemic resolutions ...
  • 1 0
 just dont buy bikes that you think are overpriced.
  • 1 0
 There's a ton of decently priced bikes on the Pinkbike buy/sell section.
  • 1 0
 Hummm, it seems they Rose their price too...
  • 2 0
 Rose? Never heard of her
  • 2 1
 oof
  • 13 0
 Well those really rose.
  • 2 0
 I've removed my Rose-coloured glasses.
  • 1 0
 @caleb93: Lots of price increase articles sprouting up lately :-(
  • 2 0
 @caleb93: these rises are likely to get a thorny reception
  • 2 2
 Fans of unrideable Euro-clunkers will be devastated
  • 2 2
 the Chinese keep hoarding up all bike raw material to mine bitcoin
  • 4 4
 No one buys Rose bikes full stop
  • 2 0
 Is this a hot take?
  • 1 0
 Excuse me???
  • 1 2
 Once the 'pandemic' is over will they lower the prices back down?
  • 4 7
 Well they hardly sell any so will sell even less now.
  • 3 0
 I know they're (were) not that popular in the UK but Rose is pretty darn popular in Germany and in Europe in general.
  • 5 0
 @HollyBoni: also theyre in for the long run. Company founded in 1907 or something. When and if YT turns 50 years old.. Rose just laughs silently in a corner
  • 8 10
 Greedy greedy greedy
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