Rotwild Teases New 180mm Travel Lightweight eMTB

Jun 21, 2021
by Matt Beer  

Last week at the Bike Connection media camp the German bike manufacturer, Rotwild, was showing off a new eMTB offering vinyl wrapped in swirly graphics that will officially be released later this summer.

We reached out to Rotwild for more info, but the only details they would release at this time was that the bike has 180mm front and rear wheel travel with a head angle around 62°, and will share the same features as their R.X375 and R.E375 models. These bikes are built for the traditional rider who doesn't want the full weight or power of a regular eMTB. The overall weight is minimized using a full carbon frame, including the links, a 375 Wh battery, and a Shimano EP8 motor with 63 Nm of torque to maximize the range.


The bike will ship with two motor profiles; one from Shimano and a second derived by Rotwild. Neither of the profiles are hard-coded and can be tuned on the Shimano app.

Even the link and the yoke are carbon.

The large head tube looks like it could house interchangeable cups to facilitate reach or angle adjustments.

There is plenty of tire clearance out back and the minimum rear rotor size is 203mm.

Rotwild had been prototyping bits using 3D printed plastics, but moved to alloys after learning more about how it affected the haptics of installing the battery. Testers preferred the "click" feeling with the alloy components. Brass hardware is used on the battery clip to keep things moving smoothly and an anti-theft lock is ditched to save weight.


One of the neat things about the whole design process happened by mistake. The motor was late to arrive, so Rotwild 3D printed an alloy dummy motor with a standard bottom bracket and rode the bike in a traditional mode to see how the bike performed, allowing them to refine the suspension further.

Stay tuned for more on this long travel eMTB as we get closer to the release date.




All photos courtesy of Roo Fowler and Bike Connection Agency.


153 Comments

  • 350 27
 Okay, I'm prepared to be down-voted into oblivion.

Paul Basagoitia is a legend among mountain bikers - and for good reason. Paul (and many others) have shown courage and tried to explain how ebikes allow them to keep doing the sport we all fell in love with.
We are quick to +1 Paul (and others) when they look like us, but just as fast do -1 their 'choice' of bike once they rely on an electric motor (which is not the same as an engine) to keep at what we all love (and what makes us mountain bikers).

We as a PB Community need to move beyond this goon-level hypocrisy and find a more developed, nuanced, even honest explanation for why we do/don't like ebikes.

Some starting suggestions (that all include opinion to debate):
- I don't like the ebikes usher in a pricing bracket into biking...
- ebikes encourage joeys to venture onto harder trails that they can't handle
- ebikes might be the answer to the most painful part of riding (climbing), but I just don't like that someone can drop a motor into a MTB and beat all the other gram-counting, effort saving work I've done.
- ebikes attract bears because bears can smell their batteries.

If the reasons our fellow mountain bikers choose ebikes are important - or the issue - then let's have a conversation about that, but 'ebikes are dumb' adds nothing to any conversation.

Let's be a better community Pinkbikers.
  • 23 10
 Upvote this
  • 17 4
 @zuckleberry: I second that!!
  • 60 22
 I like shit taking and 29ers aren’t gay anymore and flat pedals really no longer win medals on a consistent basis…so…. Ebikes it is….until I get one
  • 8 2
 Why… are you doing this? Why? Isn’t the universe big enough… for both of us? Ha ha ha ha. What is wrong with you people?

We could work together. Why be enemies? Because we’re different? Is that why?
  • 10 2
 The most rational argument I have is "I think e-bikes are ugly and their weight makes them inherently uncool (to me)" and I recognize that that's weak as f*ck.
  • 18 0
 Well, that's just great. You hear that, Ed? Bears.

Now you're putting the whole station in jeopardy.
  • 4 1
 I upvoted u
  • 30 0
 I used to not like e-bikes for the same reasons many here currently don't like them. I'm not a fan of the throttle assist bikes, the dirtbike looking ones with so much power and weight its like trucking a monster truck up the trails. But these lighter weight ones that can actually handle well are great. I have been riding an orbea rise these last 3 months or so and I can say that its been awesome. You can regulate your heart rate and still get an effective workout while managing the assist it gives you. It will double your downs, make riding in super hot weather bearable when otherwise you would cut the ride short or not ride at all.
  • 19 12
 - ebikes usher in a new era of proprietary components and planned obsolescence - ebikes make bike brands act even more like component integrators and less like bike makers - ebikes serve the industry more than they serve the rider - edirt bikes are better
  • 11 3
 Fyi, i have ridden an ebike enough to love it just as much as my trail bike but dont own one because of the prices it sold/sells at since their inception.
Not accepting ebikes as just an extra choice in the market of machines equals to being a closed-minded schmuck who cant accept progress. You cannot be against technological advancement unless it endangers life or is pure evil. Its a machine, you want those in the market or off to continuously evolve.

The only negatives i see : -adding an electric motor is one more large part to produce that ends its life in a landfill
-high priced as its an infant in its lifetime of existence offering that high level of incorporation into a mtb

They ride just like any other bikes of the past, most weight the same as an old DH bike and the lighter models as much as an enduro race bike in current time.
They do not destroy trails any more than heavier bikes used too or than any other bike on the trail right now. On the downs its ridden the same as un-powered bikes. Only on the ups constantly spinning while keeping both feet on the pedals smashing through soft ground that it will create a rut.
It gives you the option to ride with the same or less amount energy as usual and so the possibility to ride longer and faster and/or more distance within the same time.
For my part, i ride it with the same general energy as i would my 34lbs long legged trail bike on the uphills but more energy at slow speed (bunny hops, manuals, endo turns, track stands).
Climbing is done twice as fast but the downs are the same, just a different machine to use. Out of the bike parks you ride so much more and have possibly much more fun.
  • 15 19
flag cjeder (Jun 21, 2021 at 21:14) (Below Threshold)
 It comes down to this, the only eBike opinion anyone needs: eBikes are to mountain bikes what ATVs are to moto. No judgement. They're just not the same thing and it would be pretty rad if the industry would stop telling me they are.
  • 8 27
flag DroppingThreeTwoOne (Jun 21, 2021 at 23:00) (Below Threshold)
 ELECTRONIC MOTOR BIKES SUCK BAN THEM
  • 10 10
 Ebike Joey totally destroyed my local trails
  • 9 1
 I admit I own a Rise myself but still ride 80-90% on my non-e-bike.

There are good reasons to ride ebikes. But my painpoint with ebikes is that they cause more traffic on the trails. Which can also be seen positive. But in SOME areas the bike boom in combination with e-bikes are causing more problems then doing good.

Personally I use my e bike if I pull the kids, do an additional lap on the weekend or am short of time during the week. I'm aware the later is an excuse.

Using an e-bike to extend my range and do longer trips might be an argument for people who are not (yet) fit enough. For me using an ebike on such trips makes me feel like cheating and takes away the feeling having acomplished something. Mainly because if I'm honest it does not extend my range.
Beside that I wouldn't want to carry it on my shoulders for long which I regulary do with my non-e-bike.

Unfortunately its not black and white but I can't imagine riding just e-bikes like I can't imagine using cable ways when hiking. It's just doesn't give me the same experience.
  • 10 3
 In theory, you're right, but from my limited observation, all the people I've seen on ebikes have been perfectly healthy people who just want to avoid the work aspect of climbing. Live and let live and let love and let hate.
  • 7 5
 @cjeder: "eBikes are to mountain bikes what ATVs are to moto."

isn't it much more concerning that apparently people like you that are at least legally blind are out on the trails apparently? Because i can see no other way that this sentence ever came to exist ...
  • 17 1
 Good post. I'm a big fan of eBikes. I'm lucky enough to be light and fit which makes me pretty much the opposite of the eBike owner stereotype. The reality is life gets busier, whether it be work or family commitments many of us who love biking have less time to do it than we used to. It might be you only get out once a week instead of three times or maybe your weekend bike ride has to be earlier so you can be back by lunch instead of out all day. For me my eBike allows me to tire myself out quicker (yup this one will be controversial) and get that satisfied fatigued feeling that sends me home with a buzz. I can do 2000m in about 2.5 hours and be home for lunch - a ride that would have taken me all day. I can access some of the bigger loops that I just wouldn't have time for otherwise. The bike descends great; being a lighter rider the weight gives me the stability of an old DH bike that my lightweight Enduro bike doesn't despite it being longer and slacker. I get stronger when I ride it a lot and it's made me a better rider which is backed up with improved race results on other bikes. The trail damage topic is an interesting one; my combined weight on my eBike with all my kit is c.85kg (probably less than a lot without a bike) so I struggle to see how I am damaging the trail more than the average rider - the only point I have to concede on is I am far more likely to ride the trail twice on the eBike. I still ride my other bikes, but more and more it's the eBike I find myself reaching for. If something allows us to do more of what we love then I really struggle to understand what the deep routed hatred is all about. If you don't like eBikes then don't buy one, but for many they are a game changer and are here to stay.
  • 9 9
 @chri: great and very honest comment.

I don't like ebikes because I'm most case it is plain lazyness. None of the people I see/know on ebikes are Paul Bas. kind of riders. they are as fit if not fitter than me but they chose to ride an e-bike to do the exact same loop/length of ride.

Except I'm pulling my 13kg daughter in a single trailer filled with toys and that I manage to pedal up without any problem (other than sweat, snail speed), without motor, without training.

I have nothing against people using ebikes to replace their cars, or ride with heavy stuff, and I know some people have health issues and use ebikes to compensate these etc, but that s just not those I see riding ebikes.
  • 8 13
flag theobviousfaker (Jun 22, 2021 at 2:48) (Below Threshold)
 That was some easy upvote grabbing. As if people didn’t voice specific concerns why they dislike ebikes before.

My personal real experience:

-fat people reaching places they never bothered to before, then follow the „real“ MTBers down the trails which they then start disintegrating by cutting corners, etc
-riding group starts splitting, because some feel too unfit suddenly to continue without e (we never gave anyone shit about stamina or speed - i ride with these people because I LIKE them. When I want to go my speed I ride alone or in a pair).
-ebikers of my group STILL shuttle by car, despite the summit parking lots and roads being crowded. WTF?
-the same people have become slower and less capable on the descents, due to heavy weight, and mayne even due to lowered fitness

Doesn’t apply to all of them, but most. That’s unfortunate. I don’t mind evoked in general, but it’s one more way to go the comfy route in life. But (healthy, fit) people grow through resistance.
  • 9 0
 @monstertiki: I hear you brother! I'm 62 and two years ago I bought a YT Decoy, a few mounts later the lighter Ebikes started hitting the market. I wish I held off a little longer. I don't use all that power, and do all my rides in the lowest eco power. I'll use trail mode on the steepest nasty climbs, but that's pretty rare. it sucks getting older while you still have all the skills locked in your brain, and my bike allows me to save my energy for the fun stuff. No one really says anything to me about my Ebike other then my friends being ball busters, but honestly they are happy that I am back riding with them. I wouldn't ride with them anymore once I realized I was the weak link in the group. And because my bike is 49lbs I get a monster workout in the upper body, like I spent the whole day on my DH bike in the park. I did ride my friends lighter Specialized Levo SL and loved it, I would have been happy with that bike too.
  • 7 5
 Ebikes are just different sports. I like moto, and I like bikee, and I ride both of them, and never though on mixing toghether both concepts. That doesn't mean I hate ebikes... it's just a different sport
  • 1 0
 @fracasnoxteam: now that they are destroyed you can either 1) find a new hobby 2) do some trail maintenance and build with more durable techniques.

I have spent weeks digging since the snow melted this April and the only issue I see on my trails is the uphill braids the eBikes put in. So I block them. Either way, it doesn’t ‘destroy’ my trails. My trails ride exactly the same on my pedal bike.
  • 6 3
 The people you are trying to reach out to can't read. Well said though.
  • 6 10
flag fracasnoxteam (Jun 22, 2021 at 4:32) (Below Threshold)
 @Jvisscher: yes these guy totally don't know how to build trails you're right
mbf-france.fr
Cutting corners everywhere destroying berms, pedal scratches on every rocks, holes in climbs because of full power boost mode and 0 skills, flattening climbs by removing rocks. This is for the Joey's.
On the other side of the spectrum avg of +20km/h on a 10km loop to kill Strava time where only fast parts are shared trail, this isn't mtb anymore but electric motorbike with pedals, it won't be long before mtb in general will be definitely forbidden here. And I hope we won't see a crash with hikers, or worst...
  • 3 2
 @theobviousfaker: I like how you called him out on his pandering. Not enough people are able to call a spade a spade these days.
  • 9 3
 @fracasnoxteam: And there is is.... Strava times!

My grandma worries about me crashing with hikers on a pedal bike.

Regular pedal bikers remove rocks, scratch precious rocks with their pedals, etc. Strawman arguments are weak and exactly the trap so many fall into when even thinking about eBikes - and your thoughts are spilling out onto what you type.

Don't bring up Strava, instagram or Facebook. Once that is a factor in eBike vs bike, you've lost the sympathy of those who rode before social media was invented.
  • 2 0
 Wait bears!
  • 2 4
 @Jvisscher: 20kmh on average on a technical trail, that's why I mention Strava. You say strawman arguments, I'm saying cheery picking.

You don't know where I live and the context with hikers association. And I'm not trying to convince you of anything or judging or whatever, I'm just giving here what I've seen.

And I rode before Google was invented, by the way.
  • 3 0
 @Baoas:

"I believe that Diversity was an old old wooden ship"
  • 4 3
 @rustyglaze5: "Not accepting ebikes as just an extra choice in the market of machines equals to being a closed-minded schmuck who cant accept progress."

I think you are oblivious to the reality that ebikes are cannibalizing the non ebike market at every level of the manufacturing process, and ultimately mean less choice for people who prefer non ebikes. As far as Taiwan is concerned, ebikes are not a separate market -- they are the replacement.
  • 5 5
 @rustyglaze5: funny you mention progress! IMO the spirit of cycling is you progress through training and eating up yourself, not by adding a motor..no,I'm not hating,spare me your wokeness
  • 3 3
 @lenniDK: hey guys just don’t assault any e bike riders on the trails. And if you do I hope you go to jail for a long long time lol
  • 5 1
 What does add to the conversation though, is "ebikes are fun."
  • 1 1
 @SterlingArcher: he isn't from US and he never mentioned assaulting anyone, so you can keep your trolling for yourself.
  • 5 0
 California here, due to the electricity shortage please don't charge your eMTB between the hours of 4-9pm.
  • 1 0
 Bears, Beets, Battlestar Galactica, change my mind.
  • 1 0
 @zede: it doesn’t matter what country anyone is from - unhinged is unhinged.
  • 1 0
 @zede: or do you mean they don’t have jails in their country. Clarify?
  • 3 8
flag batteriesnotincluded (Jun 23, 2021 at 0:42) (Below Threshold)
 Hilarious to think that someone can ride around on one of these ridiculous things and then claim to have gone mountain biking. Its like someone riding a segway around and then saying that they went for a jog. Pb really should have a separate page for this e waste trash. Its not the same sport, if it could even be classified as a sport.
  • 1 0
 Suspension and disc brakes encourage joeys to venture onto trails that they can’t handle.

Wait, I to, was once and still may be considered by some, a Joey.
  • 4 0
 @zede: maybe, just maybe they are doing it for fun…….
  • 49 3
 I'm in my mid 50s and I'm looking forward to having an ebike for my 60s so I can have a blast when on the trails with my kids and make it my grocery hauler/coffee shop runner when not. I'll still give a friendly wave even if you cuss at me going by.
  • 3 0
 Ebikes in my area with stupid parking rates, horrible traffic, and plenty of significant hills, are a huge game changer!
  • 44 0
 Call it lightweight and then don't talk about the weight of it.
  • 1 0
 It still has to weigh like 20 kilos ya?
  • 3 0
 I read the article a few times wondering if I missed it. They mention weight savings a few times. Never give the weight. Editor fail.
  • 1 0
 its all about teasing you
  • 32 6
 Lets have a dose of realism here, you cannot effectively manage e-bike usage on trails with current resources (people and/or funding). In a democratic civil society, for a rule or law to be effective, it must have an enforcing agent (police) AND the effective prosecution of the crime. Is that what we really want in mtn biking? F-that!

Skateboarding had its naysayers, so did snowboarding.

Technology is changing the sport yes, but we must embrace the change, fighting it is futile, its gonna happen whether we are onboard or not.
  • 21 0
 Did y'all really just post an article about a "lightweight" ebike without listing the weight?‍♂️
  • 8 1
 Nice bike! Curious on the details. Weight, geo , wheelsize? Doesnt look like it has a flip chip. Not sure why builders spec their 180 bikes with 27. F and r(kenevo, husqvarna, commencal). Most dhers are on a mullet these days
  • 6 0
 Ya, no mention of weight. This is a clear competitor to the new Enduro ebike.
  • 3 0
 Their previous r.x375 was 18.2kgs but not really higend lightweight parts on it so I guess 17kg or less could be possible even more if your really customize it.
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: damn! 18.4kg is so fine. Thats light enough. Of course i cant help but add weight somewhere it seems
  • 15 6
 People still complain about ebikes..... Weird...
  • 4 2
 Welcome to reality
  • 1 2
 some people still think 26 ain't dead.....and we can't troll Trump supporters for another 3 years....
  • 8 1
 Searching the internet for a T-shirt with " Ebikes attract bears because bears can smell their batteries." printed on it...

LoL
  • 2 0
 Just our of curiosity, in battlestar galactica are batteries made of beet?
  • 1 0
 Did you find one? If so, post the link Smile
  • 5 1
 They said they produced a bottom bracket/(fake motor housing)and rode the bike w/out a motor to further tune the suspension (pretty cool idea BTW)so technically this bike has been both e bike and regular bike
Either way that things looks pretty bad ass &
I want one
  • 4 0
 Ive often said all emtb's should come with a dummy motor with a trad bb and cranks. Keep the reflectors, plastic pedals and bell and throw one of those in the box. The motor is going to have to get serviced sometime, usually before its expected. Then youre not stuck without a bike
  • 2 1
 @won-sean-animal-chin: usually within the first year, then every year after that... these things are not cheap to run.
  • 3 0
 @Otago: yup just running cheap drivetrains and buying 4 packs of brake pads and always on the lookout for discounted dh casing tires for the rear. The motor is the question mark. So far so good on my warrantee motor. Might buy a spare motor from ebay to rotate in as needed. Other than that it just keeps running
  • 5 1
 Ebikes have their place and whilst we all have our views, mine are turning and I will get one as the tech comes on.
One thing that really turned me is bike parks. At Wind Hill recently and ebikers were getting in 2-3 runs for every one of mine due to the push up. They were also clearing stuff easier being able to maintain speed. These were not crap riders. These were average to good riders to start with. Again, this week end at another park (all be it a much shorter push up), same thing.
Maybe in a couple of years. Maybe…
  • 4 1
 I'd say that ebikers are probably getting more than twice as many runs in at Black Mountain Cycle Centre than people on the uplift if not more. A day ticket for the uplift is around £45 and £18 for an ebike. Assuming you already have a normal bike, if you were to spend £7.5k on a Turbo Levo or similar and go to the bike park it would take approx 275 trips to break even which is for me about 4 years worth of visits. Personally I really enjoy having a chat on the uplift and meeting other riders which I don't think you experience so much on an ebike. I also think I would ride more conservatively on an ebike for fear of the repair bill if I cased a jump etc.

I have been fortunate to be loaned a Turbo Levo and for me where is comes into it's own is the post work 'power hour' I can probably do 3 times as much from my doorstep in an evening which makes a huge difference when you are time limited by family commitments etc. The increased torque and impacts of going so fast up hill absolutely munches through components though and the weight makes it feel pretty dead on the downs. At present it feels like a fun alternative to biking but I think they need to sort the weight and iron out all the issues with failures etc as it's pretty annoying when your £7k+ ebike just decides not to work as there is basically nothing you can do to solve the issue aside from taking it to a workshop. I certainly wouldn't buy one without a warranty.
  • 9 6
 Whenever e-bikes can substiute cars, great. Whenever you have a lack of fitness and want to compensate...no. earn your turns. The process of gaining fitness comes along with getting experience on and off the trails. If you cut the first, the second will take too long. Yes, there are a lots of exceptions with injuries and illness.... In the end, everybody has to decide by himself and shouldn't judge others too fast, I just like to find out, what I can achieve and how can I improve without the help of motor.
  • 3 0
 Talking about weight and recent attempts to reduce it to acceptable BIKE weight, what I check with ebikes, is that they use the same components on the drivetrain, has a Bike, and it seems incorrect, unless you enjoy changing parts as a ritual after riding.

Been seeing to many freewheel (on the rear wheel) failing - supposedly due to the high torque from the engine on an ebike.
Also drivetrain seems to last much less than a Bike.

I can imagine all this issues will be solved in the future to come, but unfortenatly it'll bring more weight!
Unless batteries progress and can deliver same power with fewer cells, making it lighter, I don't find reasonable to ask for lighter bikes, unless you stick with light tires, light drive train...and even going that route the problem will be allways the battery pack / range
  • 9 4
 Looks expensive. Bike brands need to work on making a more affordable ebike. Let’s say in the 3-4 thousand dollar range.
  • 8 2
 There are ebikes for 3-4 grand price range.
  • 5 12
flag zuckleberry (Jun 21, 2021 at 17:49) (Below Threshold)
 @jomacba: But they’re all sh!t. The fact that it’s an e-bike makes it even worse. Go buy a chinese carbon e-bike if you really think getting one for 3 grand is possible
  • 18 1
 Dude, you cant even buy a decent regular bike for those prices…
  • 7 0
 @neroleeloo: exactly my point
  • 7 5
 @zuckleberry: Your right they ARE all shit. So basically what your saying is, "That bike looks good, I want it, but I don't wanna pay the asking price". That's alot like asking a Ferrari to start making cars that cost 30-40 grand. That being said, you can always do what we did when we were kids, and get a cool poster for your wall!!!
  • 4 8
flag zuckleberry (Jun 21, 2021 at 18:06) (Below Threshold)
 @jomacba: You got one thing wrong: I don’t want it
  • 7 1
 @zuckleberry: So then why do you care?
  • 1 1
 @jomacba: the asking price is super inflated. That's the issue.
  • 2 0
 @giantwhip: Super inflated according to who? Based off of what information are you coming to this conclusion?
  • 1 2
 @jomacba: Maybe everything that’s on sale? Look at a graph comparing the prices from 2020-2021, to 2019. Then you’ll see what giantwhip is talking about
  • 8 2
 @zuckleberry: So nobody has taken into account the increase in costs of production as well as logistics based off of the impact of covid?
There are also tariffs to consider.
The amount of hands in the cookie jar all trying to get their share.
Adding in the global costs of inflation for everything, and the stagnant average wage of most North Americans.
I think your beef is poorly aimed.
While I would love to have several bikes in my quiver, and a dispensable income, these are the realities of today.
I for one can't afford this bike, but I'm also not here moaning and groaning at the cost of it.
Rather than sitting back and complaining about the fact you can't afford it, maybe ask how can you?
Pretty easy to spend money... it's gotta be just as easy to make it.
Somebody else has worked hard and long developing business plans, and developing an idea to come into fruition such as this bike.
I for one can't complain at the cost because i respect what it's taken for this bike to become a reality.
If I truly wanted one, I'd figure out a way to get one.
Complain less, and grind more.
  • 2 3
 @jomacba: When did I ever complain? You take this topic too seriously.
  • 3 2
 @zuckleberry: On the contrary my friend. If I had a dollar for how many times I head people say "it should be cheaper", I would be able to afford it.
That being said, when I say "you" I was generalizing, it wasn't specifically directed at you, I just clicked respond to your message.
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: Ah. Thanks for clarifying!
  • 2 1
 @jomacba: I’m not saying this bike shouldn’t be made or sold at whatever astronomical price I am sure it will be. What I was trying to say is that I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a decent major brand ebike come out that cost less than 5.5k. Should shimano have released Deore or just told their customers to figure out a way to afford XTR parts? Everyone talks about how nice it is that we finally have decent entry level mountain bikes that don’t cost an arm and a leg. How about a decent affordable entry level ebike too?
  • 3 2
 @jomacba: Has anyone seen the bikes in the stores. Nooo that's because they're all sold out!!! So there are a lot of dentist or people with real jobs that can afford (use the term lightly) them out their.
  • 3 0
 @srsiri23w: Thats a fair question, and I don't have the answer to it.
I can however speculate with an educated guess.
We are still at the early stages of ebikes.
Companies are still in the process of developing them, to the point where alot of companies still don't.
Costs of manufacturing is also associated with volume.
The more units sold, essentially the lower the overhead, and thus the percentage essentially becomes a small figure, and so on and so forth.
Essentially once ebikes make up a larger portion of market share, and the more options available, the more affordable they will become just due to good old fashioned competition.
Another factor to note is companies like shimano have been hit hard in terms of their ability to manufacture and produce anything, and I think once companies like sram throw their had into the ring, we will see more options become available.
In terms of tier of each brand "as you say XTR vs Deore, historically most brands produce their flagship "no holds barred" versions first, and let the technology trickle down into their more budget friendly products.
What your asking for is somewhat of an inevitability, however you also have to remember the motor and associated parts are an addition to a current list of parts required on a bicycle, and are not in lieu of. Therefore Ebikes will inevitably be more expensive.
As the cycling industry becomes more popular, and the available options to manufacture increases, so do the options to produce more budget friendly products.
  • 2 0
 @knarf1: I'm not sure I understand how this playes any relevance to my statement.
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: ah common, some brands like spesh sell some bikes at 8k .
Okay but they are big.
Compared to Unno who only make what? 25-50 frames of one type of MTB a year. Same price, made in the EU. Compared to mass production in China? How the fuq?
Next you want to tell be Unno isn't good quality wise..
  • 2 0
 @Serpentras: Specialized also have a massive marketing budget, and have a massive amount of market share.
They make most of their money on volume business, and I would say is a superpower within the industry;
Because of this they have the potential to back more professional riders, and have massive amounts of data acquisition in order to produce good products. I say this objectively as I am not a Specialized fan, and I personally wouldn't buy one for myself, but I do understand their business motive, and its companies like Specialized that set the bar for small boutique brands like Unno to reach towards.
Unfortunately on the other hand focus their attention on building the beat possible bike they can and do it sustainably. They however, don't have the same financial resources to pour into R&D, and have limited funding to back professional teams and riders to market their products. I beleieve they have done considerably well given those circumstances.
Mt statement has nothing to do with brand preference. I have my preferences for a reason.
I've been I this industry for 20 years, and I've seen the evolution and development. One thing that has always stayed the same is bikes are expensive. That's just the way it is. Companies have done a better job blending the gap between mid range and high end and I think overall, with all the options available, nobody has anything to complain about. If option A doesn't work for you, maybe Option B or C or D ect ect.
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: Sorry, that was supposed to say Unno, not unfortunately. Auto Correct.
  • 3 0
 @srsiri23w: check out husqvarna's emtb line up. Really nice bikes, great spec and they have a 180/180 bike for 6k cad/5kusd or a 150/160 mullet bike similarly priced and i think theyre available in N america currently. Cube hybrid 160 was a really good price too, not sure what it is now
  • 2 0
 @jomacba: if I look at bikes now and especially the Enduro segment I think small brands made that big leap towards DH-like-capabilities possible.
I know spech has a lot of marketing and I am strictly against that because it sells you crap.

There is a beer brand here who is the cheapest. 28cent for a big bottle. Less then 10€ for 10liters of beer. Quality wise it is a really good one. Other companies who are smaller or bigger want more then double.
This is a local made product, good wages and quality but without even an Marketing department or anything related to it. There are others who do the same now.

This marketing is crap because they don't even show you the product. I mean all angle's, high-quality pictures or VR. Not showing the small bits is a pity.
  • 1 0
 @Serpentras: That is a fair statement, but a tough comparison. Beer is a volume business. High end bicycles are a luxury item. The overhead costs are diluted significantly as the percentage ends up being a few dollars rather than hundreds or thousands. Even a small brewery can sell hundrwds of thousands of a single unit each year, where as the bicycle industry may sell 1% of that.
  • 4 0
 “ Neither of the profiles are not hard-coded and can be tuned on the Shimano app.”

Of course they aren’t... wait, what?
  • 3 0
 Double negative, so they are hard coded haha
  • 3 1
 Ebikes have brought many to the trails that would never come if they had to pedal . Some with attitudes , some sadly overweight and some having an enhanced experience . Many videos on youtube by Ebikers in Hawaii showing this
  • 2 0
 How cool it would be to swap to "alloy dummy motor with a standard bottom bracket" and drop the battery to turn your e-bike to a lighter version when you want. Feel good on the day or going for a shuttle assisted / bike-park week-end - drop the weight. Adjust suspension a bit and you've got a second bike. Now, who do I lobby to produce this aftermarket? Let's start with Shimano e8000/ep8.
  • 30 26
 Yep, I see the benefits and all the glamour and nuance that e-bikes bring to the market. I still hate them..
  • 23 2
 Good thing they still make non ebikes then hey?
  • 15 6
 Does the Pinkbike ebike filter not work anymore?
  • 10 20
flag Pinemtn (Jun 21, 2021 at 18:17) (Below Threshold)
 That’s what I would say if I couldn’t afford one too
  • 7 1
 Why do you hate them?
  • 3 3
 @Pinemtn: it's not an affordability thing
  • 11 11
 I think they are great, for seniors. Ba-da boom. I'm 63 so by the time I want one, in twenty or thirty years, they should be incredible!
  • 11 2
 I’m in my 40s and I want one, ideally I’d have an ebike for massive missions on a time constraint and an Mtb for every day stuff. Personally I can’t see what’s not to like about ebikes @andrewfrauenglass:
  • 5 2
 all good if you cant afford mate.
  • 5 1
 @giantwhip: haters are gonna hate
  • 3 0
 @jomacba: @jomacba: But I'm sure they sell more ebikes than non-e"
  • 1 0
 @Switzerlanded: your guess is as good as mine
  • 2 1
 @enduroNZ: my problem is that ‘massive missions’ should mean more than 50km/4 hrs of riding - which is when an eBike dies for me (spesh Levo). My enduro goes for 70km regularly- doubling the weight for fewer km wouldn’t make sense.
  • 1 0
 @Jvisscher: I own a Rotwild RE375. As the name suggests, it has a 375Wh battery, not 600, not 700, just 375. eBikers look at me like I'm nuts. You'll run out of battery in the middle of nowhere they say, or as you said, "it'll die". So this morning I went out to get lost, never more than 20km from home but hey. In the end it worked out at 60km, 600m vert, 20km/h average, and I still had 30% battery left. People should learn to use both profiles and mix eco with trail. This bike has done exactly what I expected since I bought it: it's opened up exploring again cos I'm not frightened of ending up at the bottom of a valley with no strength left to get back out and back to the car, it lets me keep up with my fastest mates who are younger and fitter than me but no faster on the down, and on these hottest of days it takes away that feeling of 'bugger this I'll melt in a pool of sweat and they'll never find me'.
  • 4 1
 “And an anti-theft lock is ditched to save weight.”
When you’re talking about 30+ pounds, does a lock for a $500 battery really weigh a big fraction of that?
  • 1 0
 Actually there is an anti-theft thingy available from the maker.
  • 2 0
 @boblike: Ah, didn’t know that
  • 1 0
 Sometimes, I feel like I would like a sub-20 kg (preferably 18 kg) Ebike. I tried a BMC trail fox but at 24 kg it was a lump despite getting me up hills steeper than I deserved to climb with my own lungs. It was hard to fling around at my crap skill level. Maybe a better rider could do more but I wasn't interested until the lighter detuned models came from Specialised and Orbea.

Now I am getting interested. Maybe. When I'm older. But if I was to get one, I would have significant concerns about the obsolescence. There seems to be a flood of Ebike models hitting the market. New motors from Shimano and Bosch every year or two. Maybe a dozen smaller motor manufacturers, some pending with gearboxes combined. So now its getting like mobile phones. A new and shiny improved model is always around the corner.
How long does one hang on to an Ebike until compelled to sell and get that lighter, bigger capacity battery combined with a lighter motor with more torque and greater efficiency, that feels more natural? Where does it stop? I think most folk can hang on to a bike for many years now that geometry is settling. Are Ebike owners going to be satisfied with having their bike become electronically obsolete within months of purchase?
  • 6 2
 E- bikes are dumb. That is; until I get one.
  • 3 0
 "New light weight emtb"....but no weight listed.
  • 1 0
 Are there any e-mtbs on the market that use the fazua system that trek has in their domane e-road bikes? Motor and battery are a single unit
  • 1 0
 NOX HeLIUM and Lapierre eZesty
  • 3 1
 every mtb e-bike should come with kit of tools for trail maintenance for obvious reasons
  • 5 2
 Looks pretty good.
  • 2 0
 Hoping it is under 5K with premium suspension and good drivetrain. Lol.
  • 2 0
 Keen to see what Norco brings out.
  • 1 0
 Nice bike damn sign me up for testing . Wish I had all day to right a book about this bike but I work..
  • 4 2
 Looks meta
  • 2 0
 sheeesh!
  • 8 11
 Seeing ebikes lapping me at a local private downhill park has changed my opinion on the subject. I like the idea self shuttling a big bike, especially on private, one way trails. That said “e-bike” is a marketing term invented to get motorized bikes on public trails.
  • 4 6
 What’s a motorized bike?
  • 2 3
 @Pinemtn: I think it's a bike being ridden by someone on copious amounts of performance enhancing drugs?
  • 4 4
 ELECTRONIC MOTOR BIKES MUST BE BAN!
  • 1 0
 Is schleyer gonna ride it?
  • 1 0
 Ebike sentiment aside......but, this bike looks pretty ruff
  • 1 0
 This is AI generated article is having a ID10T moment!
  • 1 0
 50lbs is lightweight now?
  • 2 2
 Looks rad. Would still rather pedal though.
  • 1 0
 I love all my bikes.
  • 27 27
 Ebikes are still lame
  • 1 2
 Lightweight ebike is an oxymoron. It doesn’t exist
  • 1 2
 More e-,mtb - More Factorys - more batteries - more polution.
  • 1 2
 German dentist
  • 2 0
 Nope German Denstists ride Santa Cruz or Liteville
  • 9 12
 KEEP BATTERY OPERATED BIKES OFF ALL MTB TRAILS
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