Santa Cruz are the Latest Brand to Increase Retail Prices Due to the Effects of COVID 19

Mar 10, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  

In a letter shared to distributors and then leaked on social media, Santa Cruz have reported they will be increasing their prices by an average of 10% from April 2 due to the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Santa Cruz have confirmed the letter is genuine to Pinkbike but they are far from the only brand to raise prices in this unprecedented year. We've previously reported on similar statements from Commencal, Propain and Nukeproof as the impacts of the virus and global politics increase the cost of doing business for bike brands.

The letter highlights five key issues that affect Santa Cruz's pricing:

Increased transportation costs - The shipping industry is currently running at capacity and, with demand outstripping supply, prices are skyrocketing for both sea and air freight, affecting a multitude of industries

Increased component costs - These same transport costs also affect the component companies that spec Santa Cruz's bikes, meaning the OE cost of the parts on a new Santa Cruz bike will be higher. Apparently, even packaging materials cost more due to the huge increase in online shopping.

Exchange rates - The NTD (New Taiwan Dollar) has increased in value against the US dollar. A year ago, $1 USD bought you $30 NTD, now it only equates to just over $28NTD.

Tariffs - Joe Biden may have replaced Donald Trump in the Oval Office but the former President's tariffs remain in place and continue to affect prices.

Assembly Costs - Santa Cruz has invested heavily to ensure their assembly plants exceed local guidelines for safety in the pandemic.

These issues are affecting the whole bike industry due to the overwhelming demand for bikes and, the letter suggests, they look set to continue for some time.


604 Comments

  • 479 5
 I feel like there has to be a ceiling somewhere. Like, at some point, not enough people are going to be willing or able to spend $8K+ on a new MTB, and the market will have to adjust.

Of course, I've been saying that about lots of things for a long time, and pretty much been wrong.

"People can't pay $1-million for a modest house in Vancouver/SF/SEA/Wherever, the market has to crash any day now...."

"People can't pay $50K for a pickup truck, that's unsustainable..."

"People can't pay 30K/yr for college, prices will have to come down..."

If my track record is anything to go buy, you should all rush out and buy a bunch of MTB's, because they're going to be worth twice as much by this time next year.
  • 54 20
 Lets check out the positive: PB overall and buy/sell section is gonna blow up more than ever!!

For us that means; Site Traffic = More articles and overall MTB media, likely more people seeing PB as the best avenue for used bike parts and bikes, and hopefully more positive support for the sport.
  • 21 10
 Manufacturer direct is going to become an increasing trend, at least for frames. I think more and more people will feel comfortable just buying straight from the factory where the frames are made VS going through a bike company who paints and retails the frame at an increasingly massive up-charge. Competes will probably remain the same, but for people willing to build their own, it can equate to a huge savings with the days of under $2,000 carbon frame sales being behind us for the foreseeable future.
  • 284 5
 It's almost like there is growing income inequality that hasn't kept up with inflation, productivity, OR cost of living.
  • 51 2
 I'm worried that more people are going to result to financing bikes to offset the initial financial hurtle... taking the poison in small doses rather than all at once
  • 41 3
 Meanwhile we have YT releasing a new bike for $2700.
I don't know about you but I think that means that the market is adjusting?
  • 24 32
flag mrkkbb (Mar 10, 2021 at 16:43) (Below Threshold)
 Here is why it is sustainable: 1) People lease houses/condos, 2) people lease trucks or buy used, 3) people take out loans that they cary for a good portion of their life, and 30K? more like 60K if you add housing.
  • 2 0
 @labrinsky: and that is what is going to happen, hopefully people buy full (crash+theft) insurance coverage for the bikes that they finance.
  • 29 2
 I wish it was just 30k a year for college....
  • 53 5
 The ceiling is when folks stop buying bikes and keep riding/upgrade what they already have. It's the same thing with cars, appliances, houses, etc...

The industry responds to market demand.

I suppose the issue is lots of folks have disposable income, so demand is adequate.

On a bright note, the performance of low grade components is improving and lots of companies are starting to produce their top tier carbon framed bikes from aluminum.

I build my own bikes and tend to swap over parts as I buy and sell frames, so my new parts are kinda added piecemeal fashion.

Being a fair mechanic, I save a lot of time and money doing my own work. This is probably what more folks should learn to do versus complaining about bike prices and shop rates.

If I was a non mechanic, I'd invest in a bike repair course.
  • 8 0
 @labrinsky: already happening, most of the major brands have a credit card and encourage the sales force to utilize the card as a tool to get customers to spend above their comfort zone. They typically have a 6mos 0% offer and attach a 20% or so discount on any accessories for some period of time after the sale.
  • 26 0
 I need to ride slower and stop breaking stuff
  • 13 0
 @rideallday110: yeah and people bitched that the geo was “out of date”. Sub $3k with a solid spec. $3000 more for half a degree and there is soooo worth it. /s
  • 23 2
 Meanwhile at Guerrilla Gravity HQ: [Monty Burns voice - Excellent]
  • 3 1
 @atourgates But people will.............not me.
  • 18 2
 @bridgermurray: I wish the education I was getting was worth it! haha. My wife has a lucrative "government" job and she is miserable! I on the other hand, was perfectly happy making ~$40k a year as a bike mechanic, with no debt, and the ability to go enjoy my time off. She'll come around some day. Or I'll wisen up.
  • 1 0
 you are awesome man, love your comment!
  • 8 1
 @NorCalNomad: will be interesting if inflation jumps up soon due to increased debt levels from government Covid response.
  • 6 0
 @rickybobby18: use your brakes less too... worried consumable parts will be hard to get as well. I guess the indirect result, could be making us better riders.
  • 19 4
 @atourgates the same thing happened/ is happening in all the outdoor recreation industries. The ceiling will continue to rise, people will bitc*, pay the outrageous money (while bitc*ing), and the very large outdoor industry corps will raise the ceiling some more.
But it's not THEIR fault..you know..COVID.. tariffs... inflation... taxes.. former president Trump... President Biden... because we are dumb enough to buy it (BS and all).
  • 15 21
flag pocketsandcollector (Mar 10, 2021 at 17:56) (Below Threshold)
 @NorCalNomad: something something raise the minimum wage

(fr though)
  • 4 0
 Exactly, they are going to pass along the price to the consumer until the consumer rejects the price. Then they will be squeezed at the margin and have to make a change to lower their costs.
  • 9 1
 @rtclark: When the consumer rejects the prices then they will squeeze the LBS to taking less of a percentage. Supply and demand is a fine line.........consumer is King/Queen
  • 3 0
 @labrinsky: I’ve been a Trek card abuser for years!
  • 3 2
 @rivercitycycles: Nobody is forcing the LBS to carry that brand. If the margin isn't good enough, the LBS could choose to sell a different brand. Then if the brand loses enough accounts, they can choose to find away to lower their cost or eliminate the LBS from the equation to keep their margin and not worry about their costs.
  • 12 0
 @Dmaxwell: Buy Sell Prices went up 10% to match! And dickering plus low balling just increased by 50%.
  • 8 1
 @ripinitup: Last time I checked running shoe prices haven't changed....
  • 129 113
 Stop complaining - choose a different occupations that pays more or cheaper place to live and a used bike. Yes people will keep buying 10k bikes, 50k pickup and a 1mil houses on North shore. The divide will continue to grow its called capitalism wether you live in Bay Area or Vancouve. You can be a part of system or complain about it - it’s up to you. Choose right career, make smart decisions in your 20s, 30s and this life of toys and adventure can be your; or at least you can fool people to think your crushing it with easy credit and no savings. Just remember a dollar saved is $2 earned. It means a lot more to save for rainy day than live over your means. Find a cheaper place to live and used bike!!!
  • 40 33
 @trollhunter: no idea why you're getting down voted for that simple observation
  • 11 0
 @nurseben: This. At the top end, the prices are nuts, but subject to availability, you can get a better bike for $3,000 that at any time in the past.
  • 17 8
 @trollhunter: Brutal but true. Just like life.
  • 46 1
 @trollhunter: You can be part of the system AND complain about it. (Myself and a legion of PB'ers areWink
I do believe in most of what you say, fwiw. One issue is when inflation outpaces wages, that $1 you saved will only buy $.80 tomorrow.
  • 25 3
 @trollhunter: LOL The irony of your name with THAT post.
  • 17 1
 @trollhunter: a dollar saved is not $2 earned the us dollar is depreciating. More like a dollar saved is 50 cents earned.
  • 106 21
 @trollhunter: Man...I know--it's so easy. It's a wonder why there is even a wealth gap. I mean all these people had to do was not make one mistake or have life intervene at all with sickness/injury or death of a loved one. I know atleast 99 out of the 100 some odd people I know, made every right decision and all are living debt free with their kids tuition already paid for (some of them don't have kids yet either).

Like, I know this one guy--who took time off to care for his cancer ridden and wheelchair bound mother. Well, he gambled and paid the overpriced Cobra insurance (just to be safe and not make a mistake). Was pushing his mom to a Doctors appointment and a car lost control--hitting/seriously injuring him and killing his mother. He lost both his and his moms house and now lives in a trailer--with at home nursing visits. I mean, can you believe this idiot didn't save every dime since his first job at 16--just in case of that rainy day accident. I mean how stupid of him of not to make smart decisions in his 20s and have atleast some rental property to live off of now. Such a noob at this life and for what---because he wanted to help his mom out.

I mean, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink....right?

Also, can I make a copy of that blueprint to life you have. I'd like to put it on the internet so nobody makes a mistake in building the correct life for themselves
  • 32 36
flag westeast (Mar 10, 2021 at 21:18) (Below Threshold)
 @trollhunter: I’m pretty sure delayed gratification/ time value of money is considered racist these days.
  • 49 3
 @leelau: Because the comment is rubbish? I particular love the part when that states that capitalism is creating an unhealthy wealth divide but you shouldn't complain about it because you can easily switch jobs and make 200+K per year. GTFO
  • 34 11
 @kymtb0420: LOL. Trollhunter's post is like Colbert Report level satire of conservative stupidity at its finest.
  • 38 0
 @PhatBrett: "Why doesn't everyone just get a job that pays a ton of money."
  • 22 4
 @kymtb0420:

I had a high 6 figure job and very large savings wiped out when the SHTF. Everything that's supposed to help you worked against me. I may never recover from this. But who cares about what happend to me. Just letting you know that my anecdotal evidence is, when your cards up you get crushed.

People going "blah blah blah just get a STEM job." you are not thinking clearly about what's next for you.

Your gig is either getting offshored (coding)
Or turned over to a neural net very soon. (Also coding, law, accounting, some elements of medicine ect)

When your job disappears, you think equal pay will be part of the new job?
  • 11 0
 @jackalope: This! Let this be a lesson in overseas manufacturing.

You shouldn't be able to assemble and ship a bike across the world for less than you assemble it in the country of origin.

Tariffs are there to encourage companies to keep their processes in origin countries.
  • 12 2
 @spinzillathespacelizard: People don't get it until it happens to them, unfortunately.

White collar jobs are getting more and more competitive to get in the first place. I am in a good spot personally. I have Big 4 accounting experience, SEC reporting, etc. so I am relatively comfortable that I will always have a decent job, but yeah, entry level accounting jobs that lead to career growth are becoming harder to get and if don't thread the needle and get into public accounting early on, you are going to have a harder time. The law market is f'ed. It's basically a trophy system now where a few people in the top of their class gets a job and everyone else is saddled with debt. Medicine is cool and probably safe, but you need to go into massive debt and get into highly competitive programs to even do it.
  • 6 1
 @spinzillathespacelizard: Bro, I feel for you. Also, people don't understand the effect A.I. is going to have on the information systems career field. You're right
  • 1 0
 @PhatBrett: Ha....it does
  • 7 3
 Most of their bikes are currently owned by people who ride once or twice a month, with a beginer level. If they are happy with that then good for them.
  • 6 4
 @leelau: envy is a terrible thing...
  • 13 0
 @cmj1254: Inflation is running at 10%. The gov just lie to us and don't truthfully report it.
Basing inflation on CPI is a joke.
  • 2 3
 @trollhunter: agreed. The riding isn’t what I’d call world class where I live but a liveable wage can be had easily, the housing cost is reasonable and flights to Queenstown/Tasmania are fair. Cant have it all.
  • 3 1
 @PhatBrett: maybe it was satire, but that necessitates an intellect one doesn't usually find around a forum of bike slobs.
I hope it was, cause otherwise it's just an ignorant observation unconnected to what most people consider reality.
  • 2 1
 @mrkkbb: not sure why you're getting the downvotes on your "sustainable" comment. I get what you are saying. "sustainable" in the logical / economic debt for life sense. Yes that's sustainable and yes that's shit . Think folk are seeing "sustainable" as a wholly good word and getting confused with your comment. I just hope things dont get so "sustainable" that debts being passed on to debtors children ever becomes the norm.
  • 7 2
 Sounds to me like they are just taking advantage of the situation. I might be wrong but at least where I live bike sales have been through the roof. I love Santa Cruz but this just seems like they are taking advantage. Crazy how much bike cost have gone up.
  • 5 0
 @clos8: you'll know for sure if they keep the price when the covid crisis is over... In France there have never been more bikes sold than in 2020, and there is apparently a crisis impacting the whole bike industry giving no choice than raise the prices, pretty hard to believe
  • 7 1
 @kymtb0420: AI and automation are going for drive a train through a huge proportion of what are considered ‘safe jobs’ - it’s going to be an interesting if a little scary next 20 years.

Just in my line of work, a machine tending robot is now in the budget of smaller shops, the narrative is it frees up staff to do more complex tasks but in reality it will just close many roles entirely.
  • 2 1
 @clos8: They list why they are doing so, I can’t see a single made up reason there - lots of sales mean costs go up proportionally.
  • 5 0
 @woofer2609: The volume of USD has increased of 20% over a year. The central bank is printing more dollars (same with the european ECB) which also devaluate your savings. That's why the German Constitutional Court is complaining loud about what the ECB is doing atm.
  • 40 17
 @spinzillathespacelizard: Totally. The overarching culture in America is all about deluding yourself that you are superhuman and that only the weak, lazy and stupid need a safety net, that life is a simple equation, that input = output. It's an eminently inhuman approach that completely ignores it's massive flaws. The trick is to deny that these flaws exist and to convince people that it is the only way, that there's no such thing as luck and that fair's fair. I'm sure there are millions in the States who would rather die than be helped out by the state, such is the power of the rhetoric of pride and uncompromising self-sufficiency in ultra-capitalist Disneyland.
  • 3 1
 @bridgermurray: It can be way less. Pick a different college. College is an investment that better have a good return on degree of choice, especially if you’re going into debt for it.
  • 13 7
 @BenPea:
I don’t agree with what your stating, but maybe from several thousand miles away you know how how all 300m people in the US think and how the system works. While not to the degree that some European countries take things, I think the US has a lot of social programs and supportive services to help people back on their feet. I am not saying the system or people here are perfect, but I think your comment was inaccurate and a bit ignorant.
  • 3 1
 @leelau: because some people don't like to hear the truth
  • 14 14
 @BenPea: Yeah, because France has it all figured out. Get your head out of your a$$, thanks for generalizing you incredible douche bag.
  • 9 0
 A lot of people have more money than ever. Can't spend on restaurants, clubs, pubs, bars, travelling, etc. Money just accumulates on the bank account and lot's of people get nervous about having so much money. So they have figure out new ways to spend it and bikes a one of the major one. The bike manufacturers know that so they try to get the most out of the situation.
  • 9 0
 @PhatBrett: I used to pay around $120 for decent running shoes. They're around $200 now..
  • 24 3
 @NERyder: it was just based on the attitudes I've heard so frequently. It's an obvious and blunt generalisation, but the stigmatisation by so many of anything "social" stands in the way of the support you mention being expanded, while military and police expenditure remains stratospheric. France is dumb in its own ways, every country is, but the contradictions and inequalities at play in the extremely wealthy US, which wants to and possibly should be an example to the rest of us, are just off the chart. Sorry for generalising, not everyone in America is obsessed with mythical communists, I know. It's a country full of f*cking amazing people and things, and, a bit like France, from the outside it often looks like it's eating itself when there is more than enough for you all to feast on.
  • 27 1
 @trollhunter: Yes, exactly, just stop complaining. All you need to do is to be born in a developed country to good health, above average intelligence, good willpower and a supportive family. Then just get some good education, land a nice first job or inherit wealth, avoid injury, sickness and mental trauma and the sky is the limit! All the whiners are clearly not trying hard enough.
  • 1 0
 @labrinsky: I think you're right. But I also think that the financing causes what @atourgates started with: bikes to cost $8k+, houses to cost $1 million+, college to cost $30k/yr, etc. etc. It's a bad long-term strategy, unfortunately.
  • 7 0
 Bike companies: prices are going up because of a bunch of economic reasons!

Consumers: so if those things change and reduce your costs prices will go down accordingly, right?

Bike companies: ......
Consumers: ?????
Bike companies: .......
  • 7 0
 If u pick up enough beer cans everything is free
  • 10 0
 If a bunch of Reddit retail traders can band together and make the price of failing company's stocks rise 420% then we can do the same thing here. My economics 101 course told me that if the demand drops while the supply remains constant the equilibrium price will go down. So if we all strike together and do not buy a Santa Cruz for at least a year I might be able to afford a Bullit next spring?
  • 11 17
flag cuban-b (Mar 11, 2021 at 6:26) (Below Threshold)
 I’m with trollhunter. It’s called supply vs demand. Welcome to the free market. This is what u all wanted, so get off your asses, be competitive and quit complaining about others’ success.
  • 1 0
 @spinzillathespacelizard: So don't go for STEM, law, accounting, or medicine. What would you study or choose as a future profession?
  • 4 3
 I up my price as a consumer because of the political virus sell me something!
  • 12 4
 @trollhunter: 1) Name checks out. 2) It's been awhile since I've seen life oversimplified to this degree. Life isn't as easy as "choosing a different occupation that pays more". If you yourself have the ability to just grab a higher-paying job, it's highly likely it's because you acquired education and rubber-stamped paperwork that allows you to...and that education was at a cost. You've eliminated a whole spiderweb of socio-economic factors and boiled life down to everything most peoples' parents say: "Choose right career, make smart decisions in your 20s, 30s and this life of toys and adventure can be your" (sic). If everyone listened to you and your parents the world would be right, no?

Further to @woofer2609...being part of the system gives me the right to complain about it. And try to make it better, if only for myself or those in my scope of influence.
  • 7 4
 So many comments that make want to reply with an exacerbated "okay, boomer" ... And I'm in my mid thirties with a stable career.
  • 2 0
 @Tacodip420: you should read Malcolm Gladwell books
  • 1 1
 @MegalodonMatt: I assure to Brooks has not changed their prices.
  • 4 1
 @Tacodip420: I think it is a bit overstated that reddit made the stock jump like it did. Yes, they got the hype train moving but the volumes of trades were undoubtedly the result of large institutional investors making moves.
  • 3 1
 @bocomtb: medicine is actually the most stable and well paying career choice if you can pay of debt or utilize bank of mom and dad. The New York Times had a write up about it - the largest number of those in the top 1% of earners were doctors
  • 3 0
 @cmj1254: that’s what happens when you print money. Research Weimar Republic, or more current Venezuela.
  • 2 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: Canadian tire is really pushing for that right now. I work for a sporting goods retailer owned by them and there was mandatory training on their card. They're trying to push it as much as possible and our incentive is $20 per signup. I never push people towards the card, because I hate seeing people spend more than they're comfortable with.
  • 5 0
 Coming soon: $8,500 bikes equipped with SRAM NX/Shimano Deore. I think people are going to start holding onto the bikes they have for longer.

So XX1 or XTR builds are going to be $12k? That aint gonna fly....
  • 9 5
 @PhatBrett: Sad state of our system when millions cannot afford healthcare yet doctors (who claim to want to help people) are some of the richest and most well off in society, huh?
  • 4 0
 @zoobab2: I'm with you! I get it, quantitative easing has led to inflation that is far outstripping wages, yet some people still insist on urging others to pull up their bootstraps.
  • 2 1
 @PhatBrett: No way dude this was purely driven by memes and stimmys.... Maybe that's the way, I need to make a meme account with the intent to stop people from buying new bikes and then later buy one with the ad revenue. It's so simple now.
  • 4 2
 @HB208: So your saying the wealth of the doctors should be redistributed, huh?
  • 6 5
 @bocomtb: No, I am saying that doctors shouldn't be paid $400k in the first place. I am not saying doctors should have their wealth taken away. If expensive schooling is the reason for pay, maybe the US government should subsidize medical school more. I mean, at this point, it is really hard for people from underserved communities to become doctors in the first place because of the high schooling costs... that would help alleviate that as well.
  • 5 0
 I'm in a similar boat as you, to the point that when I'm trying to predict an "accurate" price of something I go through all the logical calculations, then scale up by 50% and I'm usually pretty close.

"People can't pay $1-million for a modest house in Vancouver/SF/SEA/Wherever, the market has to crash any day now...."

I read an interesting article on this aspect, and for Canada it seems we've all implicitly agreed that owning your own home is just really important to us, so we plough more resources into a house. The part that has me worried is younger people who will have the same ingrained desire to own a home but how are they supposed to find a million-plus in their lifetime to do so? They also grew up with essentially 0% interest rates so their parents financed a lifestyle that has set very unrealistic expectations about what a first house looks like (just sold a home to in a market of millenials; it was very informative).

On the other end, $50K for a new truck? Either it's entry-level or an absolute steal. I hava a friend you just spent closer to 100K, but when you're paying a couple hundred a week it doesn't really matter what the actual sticker price is. You're just renting it forever.
  • 3 0
 @nurseben: this kind of works, but fights another trend: plan obsolescence and pre-planned manufactured lifespans of 5-7 years. IME every major appliance/purchase that I replaced ~10 years ago after the original lasted 20+ years, has already been replaced yet again after 7 years. Bikes are not immune with a switch to way more plastic for key components, ali over steel, etc.
  • 2 0
 @labrinsky: I know people do this and I understand why. But taking finance out on an item that has such poor residuals as mountain bikes is madness.
  • 2 0
 @rideallday110: Yeah I mean we have a couple good LBS's in my area and I would like for them to continue to see success, but YT and other direct to consumer's need to hit other companies where it hurts. When looking at the specs for the new Instinct from Rocky, I went on YT's website yesterday. The top end Izzo is 7300 USD. Expensive yes for DTC, but the spec level is outstanding. I mean the bike is spec'd with factory suspension, full x01 and DTSWISS XMC 1200 wheelset which on its own is 2800 USD.
  • 2 3
 @HB208: Government subsidies are wealth redistribution. Because the government will pay for that with higher taxes, preferably on the 1%, who are mostly...doctors. To be fair, I'm not personally opposed to the idea. Just pointing out why it's unpalatable to so many Americans, no matter the social benefits.
  • 4 0
 @trollhunter: Just remember a dollar saved is $2 earned.

My savings acount is currently paying 0.10%
Some places in the world have negative interest rates for personal savings right now
The markets are at all time highs suggesting some sort of looming correction
Every level of government is pushing borrow, spend and pay later (or never)

I'd love to know where I can put my money and guarentee 100% return. Lots of people would love to know where they get that first dollar your strategy is built upon.
  • 3 0
 @rtclark: Just listened to VITAL MTB's podcast with push industries. Yeah their shocks are expensive, but they just released the brand new 11:6 in march and found ways to keep the price the same through their own efficiencies.
  • 8 2
 @bocomtb: It's unpalatable to most Americans because most Americans think that policies that benefit the middle class are socialist while policies that benefit the rich are just part of the system. We have wealth distribution in the US right now... most of it just goes to the rich.
  • 3 0
 @leelau: probably because of the over-simplification of major systemic problems, plus the fact that change comes from people who are participating in the system AND complaining.

The world's problems are not solely attributable to unemployed 20-somethings in metro centres eating avocado toast. They're not helping, but it's not all their fault.
  • 4 0
 Id kill for a $1,000,000 dollar "modest house" here in Vancouver!!!
  • 9 0
 rather than fighting each other why don't we recognize the problem (or at least a big part of it). We have central banks printing money out of thin air and they hand out some bred crumbs to the people to keep them placated while they hand out billions and trillions to more government and big business? Something like 25% or more of all dollars in existence were created since the "pandemic" began. In the most recent 1.9 Trillion dollar stimulus in the US, the $1400 that will go to some amounts to $400 billion. That's the bred crumbs. The other $1.5 trillion will go to government and big business and a host of other politically connected entities. Meanwhile, your bikes, groceries, gas, etc.... all the things you live for will get more expensive while your wages continue to stagnate. When you complain the gov. and academia will blame the "greedy" businesses, institute price controls eventually... it's a downward spiral. Doesn't matter if it's Trump or Biden. The policies are mostly the same as is the end result.
  • 9 1
 @HB208: Nailed it. The middle class is its own worst enemy; crabs in the bucket. We could be helping each other out, and in a democratic system, someone who wanted actual positive change could be elected (Think Bernie) but the population seems to be intent on voting in pretty much the same old same old, and look at where it's gotten us (hint, the buying power of mine and yours dollar has been declining since 1972.)
  • 5 0
 @andwrong:

100% I’ve made over $100k for quite some time and get super bummed about my work, the time commitment and the mental toll. All jobs have their stresses but I really want to do something that isn’t a “24hr” gig. I want to clock in to work and clock out to not think about work.

Unfortunately my wife doesn’t make a lot of money and we live in an expensive region. So DINKs like us have to work like we do or consider moving. Ugh.
  • 4 2
 @woofer2609: I'm hoping that'll change with time and some day we'll live in a country where people are actually willing to vote for someone like bernie, hopefully sooner rather than later, the current unsustainability is worrying
  • 7 0
 @trollhunter: I think we are all part of the system no matter what. I don't think people will stop buying $8k bikes anytime soon. When I used to go to the trailhead there were always beater cars and vans, now porsches, audis, teslas are the norm. MTB is a rich man's sport now.
  • 2 0
 maybe, but while people are paying it you can be sure brands are going to charge it!!!!
  • 3 6
 @PhatBrett: careful when you insult @leelau , he's been know to defecate on your car if you cross him
  • 1 0
 @jackalope: Guerilla Gravity sold out big time!
  • 1 0
 @labrinsky: this has been going on for 25 plus years already
  • 1 0
 @chuoi152: hell yeah, their new stays work with zero dish wheels. Nothing more unpatriotic than that. Pretty sure Pacific owns them now.
  • 3 0
 Bike sales were through the roof last year! Bikes were constantly out of stock. Bike manufactors probably had the best year last year. This raise due to "covid" is horseshit. Bike riding went up 50-100% last year. They had more sales in 2020 then ever before
  • 7 1
 @bikeparkmemes: What a surprise! Yet another generic anonymous coward.
  • 3 0
 @BenPea: I like you. Nailed it.

Except, due to some nefarious bullshit. Elements of the state are run by private companies with the ethics of vampires.
  • 3 4
 @HB208: poor people don’t need cheaper med school costs. I had zero dollars and zero help from my parents. All loans. Got out of school with a million in debt between my wife and I. By the time I paid 100k/yr for taxes and 100k for loans and 25k for licensing and dues and 25k for continuing education each year I didn’t have any more to live on than my assistant until I was 38. Drove a scooter until I was 25. Didn’t have money for a mtn bike through my 20’s. School costs are just fine for poor people.
  • 2 0
 I say the same about fast food prices. Seems to have gotten out of control once chains started accepting credit cards at their windows.....
  • 4 0
 @Jvisscher: school/university/medschool costs are all out of control. Most just demand the government pay for it. Few ask why are the costs out of control in this sector? Peter Schiff did a video a number of years ago that followed the cost of tuition at Yale all the way back to the 1600's. Tuition was mostly stable or rose very slightly until the the federal reserve was created in 1914. Costs began to rise. Then post WWII the gov. started making GI loans. Decades later the gov. started backing private loans and costs really started to pick up. We haven't seen more universities or medschools (those have actually declined in the states) rise up to meat the new demand financed with debt. Instead we've seen administrator salaries and positions skyrocket. Just like no one goes to the hospital to be seen by an administrator, no one is educated by an administrator either yet we have admin, czars, etc. popping up all over the place.
  • 4 2
 @HB208: Doctor's should be paid what patients are willing to pay them and they are willing to perform services for. It should be the market (supply & demand) setting prices. Instead we have government and giant insurance companies setting prices in some extremely convoluted ways. Next time prior to visiting a doctor call ahead and ask what the visit or procedure will cost. Often they cannot tell you. When do you buy a house, car, bike, meal, etc. and not have some idea of what the cost is going to be? On top of that, being a doctor does not mean you make 400k. Many doctors make much less, have debt and pay a high amount in taxes. Many doctors are looking for alternative careers, because practicing medicine is so unrewarding (low take home pay after taxes & debt, lawsuits, entitled patients, making medical decisions to satisfy bureaucrats rather than whats best for the patient...).
  • 1 3
 @westeast: exactly. Any profession is worth what the market will bear (stay in school, kids). A bunch of blowhards on the a mtn bike website don’t determine this, to my disappointment Frown .
  • 3 1
 @cuban-b: Yeah dude, except that the reason doctors are paid so well is because of lobbying by the AMA and artificial limits on residency programs (again, lobbied for by the AMA). It isn't a free market in the first place.
  • 1 1
 @westeast: Sounds like we should have the same type of system as every other developed country.
  • 1 0
 @dldewar: telling would be tire kickers to f-off just went up 50% as well..
  • 1 1
 @HB208: reported for Marxist tendencies
  • 2 1
 @BenPea: Oh I know, wanting a better healthcare system that doesn't lead to millions of people being underserved in the US is the same thing as wanting full Marxism.
  • 5 1
 @HB208: don't shoot, I'm just parodying the crazies. Convincing people that healthcare (the thing that helps prevent humans dying or suffering until they die) should be subject to the same market forces as bike components has been one of the greatest achievement (from their POV) of corporate lobbyists. The food industry, insurers and others have created the perfect vicious circle, the population gets the bill and is coerced into voting for that system again and again, because Mexicans and other assorted boogiemen.
  • 1 0
 @westeast: It doesn't make sense to operate healthcare as a free market, because at some point a patient will pay everything they have (or even don't in the age of easy credit) to receive treatment. The asymmetric dynamic here between patient and doctor doesn't work.
  • 2 2
 @BenPea: I got you. Your French flag made me think it was sarcasm, but I didn't want to assume lol. Wanna trade healthcare systems?
  • 1 0
 @HB208: oh god, you’re another burner account coward. You’ve lost all credibility lol
  • 2 1
 @westeast: Also, another issue is what type of doctor we are talking about. Cosmetic plastics? Yeah, I kinda agree with you. Oncology? Well, if you are going to die without proper treatment there is almost nothing you will not pay.
  • 1 1
 @cuban-b: WTF are you talking about? I have had this account for a year.
  • 2 1
 @HB208: uh oh he’s upset everyone! cool man hey good luck out there in the real world
  • 4 1
 @cuban-b: I'm doing just fine bud. Believe it or not, people can have opinions on making our system better and still be doing well economically.
  • 3 0
 @HB208: Please don't mistake my comment as a defense of our current system. It's not a free market system in the US and instead is run by bureaucrats and giant corporations for their benefit, not for the patients. You're totally right that the AMA has historically artificially reduced the supply of doctors as well as suppressed alternative treatments slowing or even reversing our knowledge of good quality healthcare. We then import doctors and elevate PAss and NPs to fill the role of doctors. Again, it's all to benefit the insiders and not the patients. Doctors have benefited from this at times, but that is increasingly not the case.
  • 1 0
 @sspiff: You'll have to explain that better for me. Are you saying since a patient might be so desperate they would give anything for life saving treatment putting them in an unfair bargaining position and open to being taken advantage of? Wouldn't that be the case for food, shelter, and transportation as well? I'd argue that all these services are much too important to trust to bureaucrats and corporate insiders. Give me freedom and the ability to purchases these services as I want them without those evil entities saying I have to buy this or can only have that service.
  • 2 2
 @westeast: lol at people on this thread thinking they can determine what professions (that they dont even do) earn. the entitlement is mind boggling.

to all the children: there isnt some jedi council that just "makes it so" because some douchebags were jealous.
  • 2 2
 @cuban-b: Yes, there is a "council" that makes it so. Do you really think that the AMA does not pull strings to keep wages high? You seem to have a misunderstanding on how lobbying works.
  • 1 4
 @HB208: lol wow.

School is important kids!
  • 3 0
 @cuban-b: @HB208: I think you both can find some common ground. I don't believe anyone, even the government, should be telling what others should or should not make (price controls don't work and that's basic economic 101). Also, we do NOT have a free market in healthcare so in some cases doctors may make more than they otherwise would have. Forcing down doctor's pay isn't going to make healthcare cheaper though. Next time you get a massive bill from an ER visit look at the breakdown. The doctors portion makes up a small amount usually. It's a complicated mess and beyond the pinkbike forum. It's been a while, but there are articles and I think the book The Primal Prescription does a decent job breaking down the mess we are in. HB208, it also highlights the role of AMA limiting doctor supply thereby driving up prices. I recall reading a long article at mises.com giving the corrupt history of the nation and state AMA formations. It's very much a corrupt cartel. I belive freedom is the answer though, not more government intervention (when's the last time that brought lower prices???).
  • 3 0
 @westeast: yeah maybe I shoulda led with “it’s more nuanced than ‘pay doctors less’”
  • 2 0
 Generally they can't afford to buy theses things, so they go into debt. It's when a lot of people can't afford to pay their debt back that causes the problems.
  • 3 0
 @drjonnywonderboy: it's more than that. With a fiat monetary system and lots of new dollars being created it encourages people to take on debt. The saver is punished. Debt is then inevitably taken in a sector that has developed into a bubble and eventually it pops (up or down) depending if the new dollars creation increases or slows.
  • 1 0
 @rideallday110: How come they can manage all these added increases and still sell very reasonably priced bikes? Makes me wonder if the others aren't just taking advantage of the crazy demand and folks with stimulus money to spend.
  • 1 0
 @nurseben: I just built my freind, Instense Primer from the frame up. Sourcing the components we needed/wanted was difficult without paying crazy high prices. Frames prices (MSRP especially) has gotten out of hand and components were about 20% higher than my last build two season ago. It will all come back to normal eventually, I hope.
  • 1 0
 @jwpeltier: IDK... I think prices don't go down. Its not gas or milk. Once these companies get a taste of higher profits, its not the natural order to take less.
  • 3 1
 @bridgermurray: Come to Canada. Degrees are more affordable. I paid $48k total for my degree from a good school. You end up paying more in taxes living here but I think we have a high standard of living. I can crash my bike and not worry about my hospital bill.
  • 2 5
 @carbking: "I can crash my bike and not worry about my hospital bill"...

That's because you have already paid for it... time and time again for the rest of your life. You have paid your hospital bills and other peoples hospital bills... people who don't contribute tax money.
  • 7 1
 @Baller7756: I'm ok with that....I can't fathom why Americans like you are not. It's not like he's calling for a government takeover of Ford, GE, Amazon, etc.... So chill out bro, I promise you--life will be better when we have a single payer healthcare system. I don't want my "insurance" tied to my employer anymore...I want the freedom to change jobs and actually contribute something to society and myself, If I choose.

I bet you're one of the guys that gets off on 60 hour work weeks and 30 minute lunches----all the while it's leading your kids to early pregnancy and dependency issues. Ever notice how many of your "peers" aren't that great of people anymore?????

Your mentality is old and dated bro...it's time to move on to better things. I want clean streets again, I want good infrastructure/roads again, I want to wake up from this nightmare of Reaganomics....Face it man, they stole our labor and your really mad about that--not social healthcare
  • 2 4
 @kymtb0420: What in the world are you talking about?

1) You have no idea who I am, what I do, or what I believe.
2) Where are you living now that you don't have clean streets, and good infrastructure?
3) You don't have to get your health care through your employer now. You can go on the healthcare exchange. Or just pay for your expenses directly.
4) Perhaps I can judge you too for a moment... You struggled to finish high school, you have a weed and minor recreational drug problem that prevents you from committing to a career, so you have a manual labor or entry level job... until you are fired or quit. You and your girlfriend argue over money, bills and your immaturity. You're a victim, and blame the success of others for your failures. Because you cant be successful in this environment, you want to "change" it. You're lack of education and life experience leads you to believe that government has money and should provide for the people. You have no appreciation for those who came before you, who sacrificed to create everything you see and use around you in this modern world. So, please... continue to blame Reagan for your situation.
  • 5 1
 @Baller7756: STFU dude. I am a white collar professional and this guy is spot on. Not everyone who thinks our system is shit is poor and destitute.
  • 3 0
 @HB208: true. Another one here who paid >$70k/yr in taxes a year in the US and agrees with you.
  • 3 1
 @Baller7756: So play with Ballsers7756....unlike you. I researched a little before I posted a reply to you. It's one of those weird things left over from college. You know--kind of like, thinking before you speak. I've read your past posts and can easily tell the "character" you're playing. That's the problem with some Americans--they don't really have an identity or personality (exhibited by your numerous pinkbike arguments)--so they make believe a role to play in life--because self reflection and empathy (pre-cursors to a personality) are real hard things to do,

Take what you want from that information--but you hate a lot of people that will help you when the times get tough--we're in this together and I'd rather my tax dollars go to single payer and infrastructure. Not another war and tax break for the corporations. Remember when America had a lot of independent shops that paid taxes....Why aren't you this upset at Jeff Bezos-or the 91 Fortune 500 companies that constantly have a 0% tax rate? Why aren't you this mad that corporations are listed as people and lobbyists run our PUBLIC DEMOCRACY??? Why??
  • 3 3
 @kymtb0420: Dude.. I'm not upset about anything, or at you. I appreciate but don't agree with your point of view. I have seen the formula for success so many times... its not difficult to follow the numerous examples. Im not playing a role... and sharing my point of view is not something that you should try to cancel or dismiss. Every successful nation employs some form of capitalism. Its the only system that drives individual accountability which ultimately drives innovation and progress. You do want to continue our progress, don't you?

That's not real info... all those corporations and individual leaders of corporations pay millions and billions of dollars in various forms of taxes every year. In the US, the top 1% pay 40% of all taxes paid... the 49% of earners below them pay 50% of all taxes... and the bottom 50% only pay 10%. Is this not how it should be?
  • 1 1
 @Baller7756: Lol, some form, yes, not our hyper Randian form that we practice here where if you don't make it you are kicked to the curb.
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: yet if I were to crash my bike and injure myself once or twice our system pretty much guarantees that my out-of-pocket healthcare costs were I uninsured would be decades of the taxes I'd pay in Canada. Rigging a system to promote hand-to-mouth living for a large fraction of the population and then expecting people to set aside funds for insurance is irresponsible governing. A lot of us are just tired of entitled people, mostly from privileged demographics, who "got theirs" through a stroke of luck and then pretend like individualism is just.

We're all better off when we help each other out. Change my mind.
  • 2 1
 @sspiff: Attempt to change your mind...

"We're all better off when we help each other out"... this is a nice thought but, unrealistic expectation. An entire human history tells us so. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. You cant build a government and an economy on hoping people eschew their primal programing. That primal programming is "survival". You cant shake it, you cant condition it out. We are undeniably programmed to be selfish and greedy. You see it in infants, toddlers, children, teens, and adults. This instinct guides every thought and action... and for good reason of course... survival. Even our acts of generosity and kindness can be linked directly back to some self interest. There is no alternative way so far discovered of improving peoples lives that can compare to the productive activities that are unleashed by free-enterprise.
  • 3 0
 @Baller7756: that argument sounds silly to those of us who moved to a country that has a functioning healthcare safety net.
  • 2 0
 @Baller7756: I guess it comes down to each other's definition of success....I dont want to be "American successful" anymore....Money isn't everything bro. I want the opportunity to help my community without having to sacrifice my health, life, etc. It's hard to start a non-profit dirt jump park--when you have to worry about insurance costs. I don't know if you notice---but other countries are building pump tracks/jump parks at an astounding rate. Meanwhile, the drops at my local park are taken out because of insurance risk. The Insurance business model is only for cars/property etc... .Not humans-----healthcare is a right and will produce better citizens.
  • 2 0
 @Baller7756: Huh, it's almost like humans aren't wandering around the desert in tribes looking for food anymore. Wonder if we can also evolve to take care of each other a bit more... you know, like most of the industrialized world.
  • 3 0
 There's probably some smart, driven guy (or girl) with a fantastic idea that will ensure low-cost, high quality health care for all Americans within the free enterprise framework. But they live in fear of losing their existing employer-provided health care and so the idea will never see the light of day.
  • 2 0
 @bocomtb: You just dropped the truth bomb
  • 4 1
 @bocomtb: Meh, the issue is that there are three huge lobbies preventing change: The AMA, Pharma Lobby, and Insurance Lobby. The fourth can be people who think we have a free market as it is or that we will have "commie healthcare" with a single payer. We do not have any sort of free market as it is.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: it’s more nuanced than “pay doctors less”
  • 1 0
 @lastminutetech: In Vancouver? that boat sailed 20 yrs ago, maybe you can find one in Langley still??
  • 1 0
 @plyawn: dont buy beverages, coffee, pop, booze. or make it yourself. drink tap water, unless you are in Michigan...
  • 2 0
 @Baller7756: I am ok with paying other peoples hospital bills through taxes. Illness shouldn't be a death sentence or bankrupt you. We should all have the basic means (healthcare, education, stable housing) to get on the starting line. Many people don't even have enough food to eat so how can we expect them to better themselves and contribute to society?
  • 2 1
 @carbking: How can we expect them to contribute? How do we expect anyone to contribute? Everyone starts somewhere, everyone faces obstacles and hardships. If it were easy, every nation would be where we are today. Our poor live like kings compared to many places in current times, and have it better than wealthy people from as recent as 100-150 years ago.

People will always find a way to survive... humans have been doing it from day one. There was no free housing, free healthcare, free food, or free clothing... just a will to survive and the natural intellectual and physical tools provided by God. Some people just aren't motivated until its real. The people happily living poor and taking handouts, would find a way to support themselves if the handouts stopped.

Being on your own is not a death sentence.. its natures way.
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: In fact God said, blessed are the poor. So its God's way too? Only if you excise a portion of the thought out of the entire context. Something politics is good at doing with religion to keep people from helping others and keep the riches consolidating.
  • 116 0
 How are they going to increase the prices of a bike you can't get?
  • 42 0
 Thats the point... 1/2 the reason you can't get is they are sold before they land! Simple as uptick in demand, slight downturn in supply, uptick in cost, and boom, why not put those prices up? People will still buy them, and welcome to the great game of business. Let's face it, only reason anyone works/starts a business, is to make money...

Its unfortunate, but lets buy used bikes boys... see u in the buy/sell section
  • 2 0
 Exactly. Came here to say every this.
  • 3 0
 @Dmaxwell: Also: they're stuck on ships waiting weeks (hopefully not months) to be off loaded.
  • 1 0
 @mbresler: Yeah that is pretty wild.
  • 2 0
 @Dmaxwell: You don't even have to see an uptick in demand. Look at the price of oil right now. How could it be rising with people driving less then they have in the past? Sometimes it's just about supply. And we all know you can't get ahold of bike right now.
  • 3 0
 @Dmaxwell: that’s exactly it. They can talk about shipping costs or manufacturing costs all they want, but at the end of the day price is mainly driven by supply and demand. It doesn’t matter how much it costs to produce something, if the prices gets too high people won’t purchase it. They know demand is high right now so they can get away with passing on the cost increases to the customer. If all these increased costs were the same, but there was no increase in sales from COVID, then they would not be raising prices this much. They would be forced to eat into the profit margin and just absorb the costs.
  • 7 1
 While I do think supply/demand balance is the reason for the increase in price. There's a couple of other factors outside of supply demand that can cause the increase too. One is brand equity which SC certainly has and they could be trying to see what their brand is worth. Yeti is a brand that seems to be able to charge whatever they want. And are competitors increasing their prices and they definitely are. There's also more new "boutique" companies popping up and charging high premiums even though they are unestablished brands.

It's all very infuriating as the bike industry has moved their factories to China to reduce their cost and that savings should be passed to the consumer and here we are. Clearly the tariffs haven't been successful in bringing manufacturing back to the US. If the tariffs are removed and/or the exchange rate changes, are we going to see that 10% back? Nope. Less jobs, more expensive goods. Win-win right?
  • 5 3
 @rtclark: What brands are popping up charging more? Evil? Well, their GX buildkit is 6k, but comes with I9 hydra hubbed alloy wheels and top spec RS suspension. Transition? Their GX buildkit is $5.5k, but comes with performance elite suspension or XT with performance suspension. Forbidden is a new brand and offers pretty good value on their bikes.

A 10% increase on the GX build for the hightower is going to make the bike $5,700. A GX Yeti is $5,500 and you can upgrade to full factory suspension for an extra $500... or you can get SLX for $5,200. Meaning SC is now more expensive than Yeti, which is probably the most expensive brand beside maybe RM. IBIS is similar pricing to Yeti, but you get carbon handlebars and a bikeyoke droppper on the GX buildkit, which you do not get on the other two brands.

The thing is though, Specialized, Canyon, Trek, Commencal, YT, etc. are offering really good bikes for the money. Are they as good as Yeti and SC? At least some bikes are and that is a preference thing anyways.

Maybe this will not hurt the brands ever or maybe it will take a while, but they are going to increasingly become brands for the rich hobbyist if they go this way. For every shredder I see on a Yeti, I see 5 dudes in their 50s who kinda suck (downvote me for that comment if you want).
  • 1 1
 @HB208: I look at price as frame only. Yeti Sb150 is $3800, Forbidden $3500, Deviate $4300 USD all spec'd with a float x2. Certainly the direct to consumer brands Canyon, YT, Commencal offer compelling value.
  • 1 0
 @rtclark: the Deviate is $3500. You need to subtract 20% tax which is included in the price you quoted.
  • 4 1
 @rtclark: guerilla gravity is lookin pretty sweet price-wise with their USA made carbon frames
  • 1 0
 @rtclark: I was obviously talking completes, in which case, my point stands.
  • 1 0
 @HB208:
Looking at frame cost is the better common denominator for comparing what you're paying for from brand to brand. All 'gx' builds are not created equal as you're only looking at the drivetrain aspect of the build and actually is just a small portion of the build price and does not factor in suspension, wheels, ect. And each of those pieces of components can be mixed around to hit a price target, so it's not a fair comparison. What you are really buying is the frame since there are less component choices and the same components are found on almost all bikes.
  • 1 0
 @rtclark: Yes, but that is why I added what suspension kit you are getting. Between the suspension kit and components, that tells you a lot. The only thing left is wheels and handlebars. Which, yeah, wheels mean a lot, but they are usually pretty close spec wise between brands and a lot of people upgrade wheels regardless.
  • 3 0
 The thing is, the bike I got, full Factory Fox Kashima, blah blah for 3k few seasons ago, now costs 6k+, while at the same time cost of living has gone up as well.

No only I can't get a Santa Cruz, I can't get the bike I already have Big Grin
Mountain biking is becoming some pretty elite orientated sport.

Maybe the Troll from the above thread is right, we should all move to Siberia, live off the land and ride for free!
  • 1 0
 @Dmaxwell: you don’t think the price of used bikes is going up as fast or faster than this new bike increase?........ interesting
  • 1 0
 @numbnuts1977: you just need to work on your negotiating skills... lol
  • 58 0
 April 2nd. Now we know they really mean it.
  • 16 1
 LOL. They didn’t want to be trolled on Pinkbike. Our voices DO make a difference! Should we use our powers for good, or just keep on crapping on everything new?
  • 3 0
 @kungfupanda: actually our voices don’t mean too much. We’re niche and represent maybe 0.5-1.0% of the mtb market, and that’s a high estimate. Just stating facts. It’s sobering I know.
  • 54 6
 IT may have valid, but let's face it. Bike prices are out of control. If you look at what is still the majority of the components, i.e the drive train, those have DECREASED in cost even since XT 11 speed. Suspension has not gone up and if the Alibaba searches are correct then the cost of Alu and Carbon has not either. What has gone up is the cost of a hosue in SF/SEA/Van and our willingness to support the CEO of these companies in order to ensure that they can afford these things. If this was not the case then why would soooo many new bike brands be popping up? Even starbucks pulled back on over saturating the market when PROFITS were affected. Clearly profits are at an all time high. I cannot recall the name of the company that last fall sold for mega millions. It was a bike conglomerate. But this is not like housing. It is not sustainable. Me personally, I will be taking my kids hiking and fishing more than biking for sure because I don't want to pay that much for 3 kids for bikes as they get older. They have shot themselves in the foot.
Pinkbike. Please do "bike price archives' . I did it once for MY15-20 for devinci. I can't recall exactly when it happened but there was a HUGE jump one year and then a steady climb since. Cars go up 500$ a year ona starting price of 20-50k. Bikes go up 200-300 a year on a starting price of 3000$ initially. Not sustainable.
  • 28 3
 On the flipside of all this, brands like YT and Ibis are offering some of the raddest Aluminum bikes for dirt cheap (in comparison) if you can handle lower end drivetrains & brakes. I mean, that stuff is as good as higher end components from a few years back, so if you buy metal frames and value based components you can have a radical bike for 'cheap'. $anta Cruz and $pecialized start with S for a reason.
  • 4 1
 @jesse-effing-edwards: all bikes are going up. Nothing to do with alloy.
  • 17 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: My full carbon $pecialized Enduro with Fox Performance Elite, XO drivetrain and codes was $5900. Not cheap by any means, but $2k less than some other brands with similar or lesser components.
  • 14 0
 Marin.
  • 11 0
 @CircusMaximus: My point was more that there haven't been better value bikes almost ever, so we're not at a loss even as the fancy stuff goes up. Almost never been better to have a limited budget. I think my Ripmo AF is like $200 more this year - that just sounds like inflation compared to a 10% increase on an already expensive bike like a carbon Santa Cruz. Heck, my 2008 alu Stumpjumper with x-9 was $2800 in 2008 dollars, which makes my $4000 alu ibis seem like a straight up bargain.
  • 3 0
 @rickybobby18: Yeah, they got the value game down pretty well too.
  • 15 0
 Bike prices are not out of control, interest rates are. Money is dirt cheap and billions are being created out of thin air every day and flooding the market. This inflates the price of all assets - stocks, property, vehicles, education, bikes ect.
  • 16 0
 @murlsquirl: IDK why people have been trashing Specialized for being expensive. Maybe they used to be, but their expert level build kits are really competitively priced.
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: you’re not wrong. Cheers
  • 2 0
 @rickybobby18: Given the context, I am reading this as "Marin bikes are affordable." I had to double take on it though because it feels so weird to see that word dropped alone to mean "inexpensive". Cognitive dissonance.
  • 6 0
 100%. Just won’t be affordable to outfit myself and the rest of the family. More camping, fishing and kayaking. The bike industry loses.
  • 1 0
 @murlsquirl: yeah thats still really steep.
  • 3 0
 @StanMarsh: Bingo bingo bingo. Excess liquidity strikes again...
  • 11 1
 @HB208: Maybe it's because you can pay $5500 for a road bike frameset. Road bikes don't even come with shocks! Frig!

And for anyone who tries to justify this, just shut up. It's a road bike frame that looks like a road bike frame and acts like pretty much any other road bike frame. It has one moving part and that's the headset. I have a steel road bike frame from Craigslist that costs $100 and has 98% of the performance for less than 2% the cost.
  • 4 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL:
For sure.
Sometimes when trails are wet but sun is out I actually go ride my road bike and I think "wow, this is fun. Why don't I do this more often?" And when I do I start to think about a new bike but then I realize that there is literally no advantage I am going to have on a new bike compared to be 2002 or so Lemond steel bike.
Good points on the alu bikes though. Ripley AF with an eventual wheel upgrade and change to XT when the very good value deore runs out of steam is a great option
  • 3 0
 @HB208: Depends on what country you're in.

Here in Australia a Stumpy Evo Expert build is A$9900 (US$7660). Fox Performance elite level suspension, X01 groupset and alloy rims with a DT360 3-pawl driver.

Compare it to the Canyon Strive CFR with full Fox Factory, XTR groupset and DT Swiss EXC1200 wheels at A$9399 (US$7273).

In the US you pay $6999 plus taxes for the Canyon, $1999 more than for the Stumpy (US$5000), but here the Canyon is actually nearly US$400 cheaper than the stumpy...
  • 1 0
 @dsut4392: Yeah, IDK. It does depend. The top spec US Spectral build (with factory, x01, and DT carbon wheels) is $5800. Seems like a good value. They don't have the XTR spec in the US.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: atleast Speci makes really good bikes and they dont all look the absolute same.

There is no competition in adjustability and weight to the Stumpjumper EVO atm
  • 1 1
 @jesse-effing-edwards: true there are still brands with normal pricing, but yt is on the forefront of increasing prices/lowering spec each year, and it only gets worse because there's always the guy saying "but look at how much more expensive the others are!!"
  • 1 0
 @murlsquirl: well some of the less fortunate if us bought that same bike for $7,000, then Specialized decided to drop the price over $1,000
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby18: Even they have been upping prices. Their Hawk Hill 3 was $2650, then 2750, and just last like went up to 2850
  • 1 1
 You could always just get a job at a bike shop and get a discount.
  • 1 0
 @jesse-effing-edwards: this a cool thing to see, but they spec and build their bikes in the same global market. and YT doesn't have the best reputation on delivery timing - is anyone actually going to get one of these? The increases have actually created room for someone to offer bikes that are relatively cheaper but still quite expensive compared to high end of only a few years ago.
  • 1 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: Yes, ok, but everyone knows S Works is overpriced. I am talking about the non-S Works models.
  • 1 0
 @downhillin4life: And then take a huge paycut lol.
  • 2 0
 @skyrez18: Yeah, that blows. Sorry, dude.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: no way dude look at the price of bikes!!! Everything innovative is a total scheme for the bike industry to make money. Everyone in it is just there for the money
  • 29 2
 Wait until you see how much they cheap out on spec next year.

Profits are going up! Investment in decent carbon and current geo is heading down.

Hope you like NX and 370 hubs!

You are going to be spending 7 grand to get something remotely decent. Hope all their loyal customers remember this in two years when the bottom falls out of this boom.

Next to go will be the lifetime warranty. Not such a big deal. They only people who talk about how great it is are people who haven’t had to actually use it.

But they built an ebike trail in downieville. They care about you.
  • 11 1
 I was always under the impression SC had the best warranty in the industry and it was worth the premium but found out this is not the case when I broke my frame and had to pay for a "crash replacement"
  • 10 3
 They do have a great warranty for manufacturing defects that lead to frame breaks just like most companies. And just like everyone else, they don’t warranty rider error.

Their frames are best in class, incredibly easy to service.
  • 4 15
flag Baller7756 (Mar 10, 2021 at 22:17) (Below Threshold)
 @Stampers: What exactly is rider error? Crashing is part of the sport... if a frame cant handle a crash, its defective.
  • 2 12
flag NotNamed (Mar 10, 2021 at 23:40) (Below Threshold)
 @Stampers: what part on a frame is there to service?

Do I need to oil the carbon layup?
  • 7 0
 @NotNamed: @NotNamed: He is talking about the accessibility of the bearings, the links etc. Its easy to disassemble and reassemble the bike. Not to mention that if you can disassemble a santa cruz you can disassemble a yeti and others too. So ye.

@Baller7756 no its not. Nobody could just build a carbon frame and think of all the possible spots of impact. If you want a frame made out of concrete then get one yourself but just because you hit that rock back there doesn't mean your frame supplier has to get you a new one.
  • 2 2
 @Freerider-09: thank you, gotta love ignorant keyboard warriors
  • 4 3
 @Freerider-09: Really, the bearing thing is just a nice-to have but:
1. who changes their bearings (themself)
2. most people switch bikes more often than bearing need to be replaced

All other frames are as easy to disasemple.

I really dont get the bearing thing- that doent make up the 2000€ markup.
  • 5 0
 @NotNamed:

1. me
2. Id say most dont switch bikes that often. Id bet people just never maintain their bearings is more likely.
  • 4 0
 @rtclark: I have had only one warranty issue. It was a 2015 Enduro. The white paint faded to pee yellow being out in the sun. I had some frame protection the held out the UV and under it was white still. Took it to the dealer, got a new 2017 Enduro Pro frame with swat. The spacing was different so I ended up with new wheels. Changed the fork too. Spesh took care of me. Maybe I was just a lucky one. But I sure was pumped on that deal.
  • 1 0
 There’s no ebike trails in downieville.
Downieville is mostly all moto trails bunch of Jerry’s out there on the wrong tool
  • 2 0
 @NotNamed: try doing a full bearing replacement, or just service the frame linkage on most bikes and you’ll quickly see why the serviceability of a SC frame is so appreciated, not to mention the great suspension kinematics on SC bikes.

Lots of people take time to care and service their bike. You can too if you want to save 100s if not $1000’s. Otherwise, you’re paying a shop to get your bike dialed or riding a bike that’s clapped.

You want to waste $ blowing through full suspension bikes every couple seasons and ride bikes that creak horribly due to lack of service, go for it. It’s your money.
  • 1 1
 @Freerider-09: @Freerider-09: The point is not who or what caused the broken frame. Riders will ride, conditions change, crashes happen. The "warranty" is basically insurance... and the cost of the insurance is built into the bike.

These $3000 frames cost the manufactures hundreds not thousands to produce (particularly high volume models). They are made by people making a few dollars per day. The biggest cost is initial design, and molds. Once they start cranking them out, the cost per unit drops and drops. What percentage of sales turn into a warranty claim... 3-5%?

Sure shipping increased a few bucks per bike, tariffs added a few bucks per bike, and components went up a bit (driven by demand). There was already so much profitability in a single bike sale... they didn't need to pass these increases on to the customers.
  • 2 0
 @Baller7756: Your understanding of warranty is bonkers. It’s not insurance against riders wrecking their bikes. What are talking about?Name ANY company that will warranty a frame that breaks due to a rider crashing...

And your understanding of the costs involved in the manufacture of a frame from factory to walking out the door of a shop is straight up amateur hour.

Costs have increased across the board. Raw material (rubber, , components, labor, shipping, currency exchange rates all are playing a part in every company’s need to raise prices.

It’s hitting a most sectors in the global economy. Go ask a contractor how much material costs have increased since the start of Covid. You’ll see a 10-30% increase in costs for lumber for instance.

Read the recent NYT article about the disruptions to global shipping. Some companies are having to drive their goods 1000 miles from one port city to another just to get containers so they can ship their goods internationally. Ships are sitting off ports for 2-4 weeks due to labor disruptions from labor strikes and Covid restrictions.

And please don’t preach about profitability on bikes. If they were so profitable, then why have the number bike shops been cut in half over the last decade. We’re those former owners so tired of making money they decided to shut their doors so they could wipe their ass with 20’s? Margin on bikes at the local level, after all the overhead won’t even keep the lights on. Service, accessories etc on top of the bike sales are what enable shops to stay open.

You don’t want to pay for or can’t afford a top end bike, fine. It’s understandable. But don’t bitch foul because a bike company won’t warranty your frame when the rider caused the problem.
  • 2 2
 @Stampers:
(1) Let me express my appreciation for the insults you tossed my way... I assume if we don't have the same opinions on this or any subject, that I'm 100% wrong and should be canceled?
(2) Forgive me for not writing a decertation on manufacturing processes in a forum, and offering such inconceivable opinions.
(3) I did not say or imply that a LBS operation is extremely profitable... I talked about bike manufactures selling $3000-4000 frames and assembled bikes for $8000-$10000. You don't need a PhD in Economics to know that there is not that much engineering, materials, labor, and logistics in that single frame or bike.
(4) I currently run a 2021 Transition Spur XX1, and a 2021 Yeti SB165 T3.
  • 2 0
 @Baller7756: don’t make misinformed assertions about the bike business and warranty policies on pinkbike, (which has a LOT of industry employees up and down the supply chain) and not expect pushback on such assertions.

Sorry for attacking you personally.

Cool bikes btw. I hope you’re enjoying them.
  • 2 0
 @Stampers: Giant warranties crashes. You're talking out your anus.
  • 2 1
 @DetroitCity: Interesting but the devil is in the details with their program. Lots of limitations and the customer will still have a substantial out of pocket expense to get it replaced since labor/parts/shipping are not covered. Perhaps the rest of the industry may follow suit to some degree some day if they lose market share to Giant but I doubt it. Giant is able to do it since they manufacture most of the world’s frames.
  • 3 1
 @Stampers: more hot air from uranus. You've obviously never used the program, since you didn't even know it exists. I suggest you ride more, talk less. Its a no questions asked policy. What policy does your brand offer?! Just stop trying to defend the price gouging and go ride.
  • 1 0
 What frame did you break? What model year was it and what year didnit break? Just curious as I've had many SC bikes and have a couple now. Thanks!@rtclark:
  • 1 0
 @LocalScruznut: It was a Nomad 4. The strut on the rear triangle literally exploded on me. Of course all their bikes have 2 struts now instead of just the 1 the N4 has.
  • 29 0
 Kind of like stocks. Guess it’s time to start selling all my Santa Cruz’s.
  • 4 3
 Except bikes lose a ton of value out the door lol more like bikes are similar to investing in gmc and fords
  • 17 4
 @makripper: Because they weren't worth that much in the first place.
  • 14 4
 @TobiasHandcock: most likely because they were never 'investments' to begin with
  • 6 0
 @generationfourth: yeah, I don't buy bikes as an investment. Maybe an investment in my health, but not as an asset.
  • 33 8
 Wait, didn't SCs CEO specifically say in an interview on VitalMTB that their warehouse is fully stocked with frames?

Also, if dentists buy Yetis then CEOs buy Santa Cruz. I began ignoring Santa Cruz after they rebranded the affordable Heckler as an overpriced E-bike hog.
  • 15 27
flag StanMarsh (Mar 10, 2021 at 17:10) (Below Threshold)
 SC is so trendy i'm pretty sure only hipsters buy them to hang out at the coffee shop after their 'ride'
  • 9 1
 @StanMarsh: coffee? that's beer time...
  • 12 0
 Frames aren’t the issue with a lot of companies, it’s the parts that are delaying things.
  • 10 0
 Literally every 3rd person I see on the trails is riding a Santa Cruz. I doubt there's that many dentists around here...
  • 5 0
 @skeen95: yup. Try to find a X01 derailleur or chain right now.
  • 8 2
 @DHhack: SC with X01? My computer would run out of RAM trying to display such price Razz Most of their bikes are seriously under-speced for the price and only the highest model is with X01. Most are NX, GX, XT.
  • 2 0
 @lkubica: even with some ridiculous upgrades my Ripmo af will be significantly cheaper than a gx level Santa.
  • 2 0
 @lkubica: That's how every single bike brand spec works. Sram SX-XX1, with a different price point for each spec level. Pretty much all X01-XX1 bikes are priced within a few hundred bucks of one another across all brands (excluding consumer direct). If you actually look at EVERY part on a Santa Cruz bike, it is right in line price-wise with any other brand. Mid-level build kits have a perceived higher price (they are higher price) because they don't skimp on white logo OEM Maxxis Tires, in-house cockpit wheels etc. like you would find on Specialized, Trek, or pretty much any other brand. You are paying for what you get, and if you value what letters are on your derailleur more than other stuff, then I could see why people think they are overpriced. That being said, Specialized has made great leaps with their price to spec ratio of certain models. The Stumpy Evo Expert with X01/GX and performance elite suspension for $7200 was a great value.
  • 1 0
 I just sold mine to a person in Boulder. Checks out.
  • 26 0
 Huh, might be a good time to start looking at bring manufacturing back to North America, who would have thought.
  • 9 12
 way too many enviro and labor costs in usa.
  • 5 2
 @jrocksdh: I'm sure they can afford it
  • 35 1
 @jrocksdh: Guerrilla Gravity has entered the chat.
  • 8 0
 One thing this crisis has shown to US and EU is the dependance on China for so many things : bike parts, bike frame, clothing, medical stuff.
  • 1 0
 Vital have a podcast about just that and the issues - I’m going to listen today at work.
  • 4 1
 Our workers aren’t skilled enough and too entitled to perform these jobs lol. Entitlement + no talent = bad job security. We can’t compete with the rest of the world unfortunately.
  • 2 0
 @atourgates: I hope they're a success. Not in California, so that's helpful.
  • 1 0
 price out a moots or lynskey and see what that is all about.
  • 43 22
 Yeah cool. Show me your financial statements. I want to know profits and cost increases because we all know its been a banner year for bikes and will be again this year. Prove that you're not funneling every single penny of the cost down to the customer on that $12k bike you sell while raking in record sales. I get it, I know....supply, demand and whatnot but without seeing the #s....its hard to not be cynical, especially given the cost of bikes these days.
  • 34 1
 Working in the industry there is a bit of gouge for sure but actually its mostly the cost of transporting EVERYTHING from components to finished bikes. Logistics costs are like +400% - its nuts.
  • 34 2
 Container shipping prices alone have increased 300% in the last 6 months. Add to that an increase in raw material costs across the board and a very weak US dollar, all of the major bike companies are US based, and you have a perfect shit storm brewing.

If you think companies are increasing prices in order to increase margins rather than just survive and have some product to sell until shit calms down, then apparently ya’ll have been under lockdown too long to realize what is happening in the real world.
  • 14 15
 Being "cynical" about what others do is silly, there's nothing that forces you to big name products, new products, or to pay others to fix your stuff.

Being cynical is a world view and it has more to with how you see the word and you place in that world than it has to do with the world.

Good shite is expensive, that's life, you don't like it, then don't play the game.

Unicycles are much cheaper and there's rarely a reason to upgrade, just saying ...
  • 5 12
flag HB208 (Mar 10, 2021 at 17:33) (Below Threshold)
 @hardcore-hardtail: AND volume is way up. Even if a container is up 300%, what is that per bike? Probably not that much. You can fit a lot of stuff into a container.
  • 10 7
 @hardcore-hardtail: important to note that the f*cknuts at Santa Crus are horrible at supply chain management and forecasting so they routinely have to ship their bikes via air from Asia.
  • 21 6
 Santa cruz owes you exactly nothing. Why should they be responsible for lowering prices for you? They're not a charity.
  • 4 3
 @lefthandohvhater: That might be true, but at the end of the day, PB readers buy a lot of bikes...
  • 21 6
 @HB208: "Even if a container is up 300%, what is that per bike?"

Um, 300%?
  • 5 0
 @lefthandohvhater: exactly right. And the customer doesn’t owe them anything either. I hope everyone who has been gouged during the boom remembers this when it’s over.
  • 6 1
 @bishopsmike: Yes, but in actual numbers. If it was $40 per bike and went up to $120 that would be different than if it went from $100 to $300.
  • 18 3
 @HB208: It's much less than that.

I just did a quick search on Alibaba, and the first seller I found selling bikes by the container load fits 290 bikes to a 40 ft container or 120 to a 20ft container, for their full-suspension carbon 29er. This is individually boxed bikes too, not naked frames and oem components in boxes of 100, which would let you optimise shipping volume further.

The price of 40ft container shipped from China to US east coast is around $5k, after the so-called 300% price increase, or less than $18 per bike (total, not increase). Obviously this is only port-to-port costs for the end product, and other freight costs have also gone up for the whole supply chain, but still...

Component costs, tariffs and assembly costs may be a reasonable argument, but citing shipping costs as a significant driver of price increases on a $4-8k bike is ludicrous, because the absolute increase in this cost is the same as for department store bikes.
  • 2 4
 @HB208: It is called absolute numbers not actual
  • 3 1
 @JorisSneagle: I guess. I am a CPA and "actuals" is just engrained in my mind.
  • 4 2
 @HB208: Assuming SC are shipping in frames in boxes I'd make a conservative estimate that you can fit 800 frames in a 40' container. Apparently Asia to US west coast rates for a single 40' container have hit a peak of $4000, so that would be $5/frame, up from somewhere around $1 - $1.50/frame pre-COVID.
  • 3 1
 @ChiefSilverback: Sounds like a $500 price increase on lower end specs is justified.
  • 4 0
 @ChiefSilverback: I work for a UK based bike supplier. A year ago, a 40’ container cost £2500 from Far East to the UK. Last I heard we were paying £14000 for the same service.
This isn’t the only price pressure, but it is the most significant in terms of %age cost increase. High end bikes less affected, but low end bikes are hit really hard, as an additional landed cost of $40-50 is a huge %age increase on landed cost for a bike that previously retailed at £300-£400. Above £3K it is increasingly insignificant.
  • 4 1
 @ChiefSilverback: You guys can make up random shipping costs and speculate all you want but the reasons for price increases have been well articulated and aren't going to change anytime soon.

This is conspiratorial thinking at it's best and it seems to be what the internet is best at breeding.

Good luck trying to find a bike this year, especially at the prices you think you "deserve".
  • 1 0
 @hardcore-hardtail: Google "Asia to US shipping costs" and you'll find numerous articles that say the cost for a 40' container from Asia to US peaked around $4000.

I did speculate on the number of frames you can fit in a container, but efficiently packaged I'd say 800 is easy. They don't have to be individually boxed because they are going from the factory to and assembly plant.

I don't need to find a bike this year, I ordered mine in September and it should be here in early April!
  • 1 0
 @davechopoptions: I searched for the cost of shipping from Asia to the west coast of US, where SC is based. From what I can tell it hit a high in the $4000s for a 40' container?
  • 1 0
 @ChiefSilverback: I can only speak of costs to the UK as that’s where I’m based, but the cost increase is due to a lack of containers being available in the Far East, so I’d imagine that costs to the US have seen similar %age increases.
  • 1 0
 @davechopoptions: How much of that has to do with Brexit tariffs though?
  • 2 0
 @ChiefSilverback: Freightos Marketplace Estimates gives a quote for £7500 to £9500 at the moment for Taiwan to US. So considerably less than the UK, but also considerably more than typical rates that the trade/retail pricing structure is based upon. Also - “estimate” - would not be surprised at all to find that actual costs are higher still.

Edit - Apologies - all my costs should be $ rather than £ - I keep typing £ out of habit!

Either way, price increase %ages are the same.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: Nothing - that only affects product coming to the UK from the EU that was primarily sourced from the Far East. Product that comes directly from the Far East to the UK is not affected by the new EU-UK duty rates and customs charges. The numbers I’m quoting are purely freight cost increases due to a lack of containers in the regions that bikes are sourced from, but as previously said, these are not the only cost increases.
  • 1 0
 @davechopoptions: Out of interest is that east coast or west coast US? From the reporting I've read the shipping companies have been prioritizing Asia to US routes as that's where the greatest demand is, but the ship are leaving without loading empty containers!
  • 1 0
 @hardcore-hardtail: Who is making up shipping costs? This figures in my post came from shipping industry journals and actual bike sellers and are based on actual prices for an off-contract container booked in Feb 2021. Average contract prices are lower, see here for instance: www.joc.com/maritime-news/ex-china-container-contract-rates-rising-sustained-demand_20210225.html

There's no conspiracy thinking involved in saying that the cost of freight contributes only a small proportion of an expensive bike price - it's simple mathematics.

Your last point is really the best explanation for price rises in a free market - "good luck trying to find a bike this year". The higher end bike market is a very neat example of the price of a product being much more closely related to the price the market will bear than the cost of manufacture. I haven't seen anyone saying that they 'deserve' lower prices.
  • 1 0
 @dsut4392: My guess is that SC increases prices, loses customers, and then increases the quality of buildkits while keeping prices the same in future releases.
  • 1 0
 ur tinfoil is too tite...
  • 17 0
 While I understand factory labor and shipping container prices have increased and this may be temporary, but there is no way that bike prices will ever go down when those cost decrease. Time to get used to these prices.
  • 6 0
 Hopefully, some companies will find a niche as being price-conscious.

Specialized is on my shortlist for my next bike (assuming bikes are available at some point in the future again) in no small part because of their super-competitive pricing right now. Even a year ago, I wouldn't have considered them at all.

I think you're right that many of the big names in the market will never reduce their prices once costs fall, but they might get some competition from other brands who will focus on price as a differentiator.
  • 6 0
 @atourgates: They might not reduce their prices, but they will increase their spec on models, which is effectively a reduction in price. That is what Specialized seemed to do. The big brands are going to each the boutique brands' lunch if the boutique brands insist on being thousands more than the big guys. It's not like the major players aren't coming out with highly well reviewed bikes right now.
  • 17 1
 The reasons given do point to a few things that SC could have been doing better. I mean, in any supply chain partner contract, there is or should have been a pre-negotiation of tarrifs and escalation limits. Its not like they are calling fedex at the last minute.

Fact is, those more sophisticated supply chain managers, like Trek, got way ahead of smaller brands, anticipated demand better via closer collaboration with the DC's and stores and used a volume leverage to secure product and price.

Exchange rate, Thats fair. But COVID protocols? Would love to see the real numbers. Maybe $50K annual on 100K SQFT facility? If that!

You can blame it all on external sources, but at some point it would be good to see a brand like SC (who is one the best bike brands out there) to own up a little bit more to the missed opportunities and operate closer to cost, rather than pass on the cost.
  • 18 3
 "We had to buy a few boxes of masks and some disinfectant, so we raised our prices by 10%."
  • 4 0
 Trek may have dodged a price increase, but I was at a Trek dealer about a month ago and bikes they had on ship list for JAN 2021 are now pushed back to JAN 2022. He told me straight to my face 'If you can locate the bike you want, buy it!'. But he did also say that, like others here have mentioned, it was largely contingent on component availability, not the frames.

Will be curious if brands who have been forward looking (like you explain Trek has) if they will keep their prices down, or if they will just pump prices since every one else is doing it? Secondly, if prices pump...let's pretend a year-ish from now manufacturing is humming along pretty much normally, I wonder if SC and all these other brands go 'Yaaay, costs are back down, let us drop prices again for our customers' or if they think well, the demand has been there, let's keep the prices high as long as we can. It will be an interesting thing for sure.
  • 1 1
 @HB208: labor productivity is down due to dealing with the added ppe. Also the lovely increased unemployment last year hurt BC people stayed home rather than working. That hurt productivity as well
  • 3 0
 @nolacelikeloam we ship full trailer loads via FedEx. Regularly 4000-4300 per trailer. We had a trailer at our facility loaded up and they let us know the day they were picking it up the shipping was going to be $15,000
  • 1 0
 Trek raised prices last month. Not quite 10% but close.
Spec raised a few 100 across the board too.
  • 1 0
 @meathooker: Do you have proof that people stayed home? It's my understanding that in order to qualify for unemployment you have to be searching for work, so if your employer opened up again and offered you your job back and you declined, you would no longer qualify for unemployment.
  • 2 0
 It looks like Trek raised their prices by $100 or $200 depending on the bike. I can understand that price increase. 10% on a $7k bike? Nah.
  • 13 1
 I’m confused. The ski industry has seen all the same issues not to mention having their manufacturing centres decimated by Covid-19 infection rates. Wholesale and retail pricing hasn’t gone up in response. Sure, some product was hard to get, took a little longer to show up and wasn’t necessarily re-orderable. Still, pricing didn’t creep up.

Other outdoor sports? Same thing on pricing, all while dealing with the same issues.

Something here doesn’t add up.
  • 10 0
 Well skiing was basically cancelled in the Alps this year. That does have an effect on the demand of skiing equipment. I believe there is a significant buildup of stock.
  • 2 1
 It does it’s called let’s make as much money as we can. It’s always been the sc way
  • 1 0
 You can fit way more skis than bikes in a container, and so the additional landed cost per unit is less for skis than bikes.
  • 14 0
 Good time to sell a used bike. Bad time to have to replace it. Glad I like my bike.
  • 14 2
 So the biking industry just had it’s biggest year ever and they feel that they still need to cover these extra costs by charging even more for already ridiculously overpriced bikes. Gotcha.
  • 14 4
 Glad I still ride my old shit that still kicks ass and makes me smile don't think I will ever understand what has happened to the MTB scene full of toffs with more money than sense and the funny thing is most of the people that buy/ride this overpriced rubbish ain't got the skills to match the equipment!
  • 12 0
 Cue the rush to get your poorly spec'd bike before you gotta pay another $500 for your carbon frame NX build.
  • 3 0
 SX for 2022 lol
  • 10 1
 Just last night, I thought I'd check something.

Vitus Escarpe CRX (2021); CF, Shimano XT, Fox Factory: AU$6200.
Scott Genius 940 (2021); CF, SRAM NX, Fox Rhythm: AU$6300.
Scott Genius 940 (2020); Al, Shimano SLX, Fox Performance: AU$5100.
Scott Genius 940 (2019); Al, SRAM GX, Fox Performance: AU$4500.

They're all taking the piss.
  • 5 0
 A Santa Cruz frame in Australia I’m guessing is going to be around $6500 - frame only

You can get a carbon nukeproof with fox factory and full XT for the same money. My current Bronson may be my last SC.
  • 5 0
 I don't think you're far off. While we're having fun, the difference in price between a Vitus Sommet CRX and a Yeti SB150 T1, which have the same suspension, groupset and wheels, is AU$6000. The Yeti SB150 frame alone is AU$5990.
  • 2 0
 @boozed: And not for nothing the Vitus frames are looking quite keen these days. In past years I didn't give them much thought, but these days I don't think I would hesitate to pick up a Vitus one bit!
  • 11 0
 @boozed: But the Vitus doesn't come with a pre-production rear triangle, you have to step up to a boutique brand like Yeti or Pole to get real cutting-edge performance like that.
  • 12 0
 well due to a Stumpy Evo incident m’y Bronson is up for grabs
  • 3 0
 You did it? Couldn’t resist the 29er wave? j/k congrats on the EVO.
  • 10 9
 Evo is like 100x better than the Bronson. Nice move.
  • 9 5
 @noplacelikeloam: come on man. Be real.
  • 4 3
 @CircusMaximus: Haha! Ok, maybe that was a stretch. But a better bike for most, for sure!
  • 5 1
 @CircusMaximus: I work in a shop now as a bike mechanic and we just received an S 3 and and S 4 and all Evo s are sold out so yeah I’m like a bitch couldn’t resist Smile . Bronson is an amaizing blaster
  • 8 0
 Like anything, so long as one can finance it, it rarely gets cheaper.

Pre pandemic WSJ reported average car loan in US was almost $39,000 with a seven year term... local (Boise) home builder tells me his profit margin on a new house is roughly 10%, almost regardless of size/sales price... he used to build $500k to $800k houses, now nothing under $2M... and his target buyer? Retired CA police officers with six-figure pensions.
  • 15 6
 Absolute bullcr*p they already charge exorbant rates for bikes that cost a quarter of the price to manufacture. They just wanna keep similar profit levels as pre covid. Covid is just an excuse to get even more profit now.
  • 1 10
flag jrocksdh (Mar 10, 2021 at 17:06) (Below Threshold)
 for many its either a choice of layoffs or increase prices.
anybody notice adult beverages are up at restraunts bc covid? doubt theyll go back down once your given place of biz is fully re opened.
remember when Obama said $5/gal of fuel is the new norm....lol
  • 8 1
 @jrocksdh: Bro, no one in the bike industry is getting laid off right now, or at needs to be (sometimes corporations suck).
  • 1 0
 @HB208: see front page...300 jobs cut.
Many just dont have anything to sell and/or cannot take orders as most are filled 1 year out already.
  • 1 0
 @jrocksdh: Hence the "sometimes corporations suck" part.
  • 8 1
 Perhaps this will drive more innovation in local manufacturing in North America and beyond?

I believe @ibiscycles has a US carbon project under development, and We Are One has a Canadian carbon bike coming. Guerilla Gravity is US made... it will be interesting to see if their prices change this year.

I could also see this pushing a resurgence for carefully engineered aluminum frames that keep cost and weight to reasonable levels. (like what Pole is doing)

Maybe we will even see a return of the $4-5k aluminum models with top tier suspension and good wheels?

I’m glad I got my Tallboy v4 frame a year ago on the PB buy and sell page! Looks like I might be riding it a while longer.
  • 1 1
 What difference does it make where the bike is manufactured? Don't hide behind the excuse of more jobs at home that's not a valid argument. I bet you wrote that comment from a laptop or phone made in Asia.
  • 6 0
 So.... if various bike brands are saying that current price increases are due to the direct effect of the COVID pandemic, does this mean we will see prices decrease after most of the global population have been vaccinated? ????
  • 3 0
 That's what I was thinking too but I honestly highly doubt it!
  • 2 0
 Can only speak for us, but we will drop prices ASAP as price increases invariably dent volume, while we are making reduced margin. The costs will only reduce when the freight industry gets itself in order though - nothing to do with vaccinations.
  • 6 0
 Meh, who cares. I stopped getting excited about Santa Cruz years ago. They were a legit boutique brand on the leading edge years ago, bikes like the Tazmon, Heckler, Bullit, Blur, and Nomad were truly groundbreaking when they first came out. Their current lineup is nothing special, now they're just a stagnant division of a conglomerate that prioritizes style over substance. Great build quality and warranty, but their geometry is old hat, VPP is no longer special (and still does weird things throughout the leverage curve). The real interesting bikes nowadays are coming out of more progressive, rider-owned brands like Transition, Knolly, Pole, Orbea, etc. In the trailhead parking lot, you see plenty of well-off but mediocre riders loading up their SC's onto their BMW X5's Kuat racks, but not too many shredders throwing their SC's over the tailgate of their beat-up pickup truck. Those riders have long since moved onto more progressive / better value bikes.

Santa Cruz seems content to rest on their laurels and charge super-premium prices for their ho-hum product based on brand cachet alone. This seems like a great opportunity for companies with domestic manufacturing facilities such as Devinci, Guerilla Gravity, and Orbea to start eating up SC's market share...
  • 3 0
 Yup, this is market adjustment. Santa Cruz will become the brand for the dentists while other brands for shredders will arise. This is good. We want many brands with different identities. Competition always breeds innovation. For example, I really like what Guerilla is doing. They are pushing innovation. They are doing things that other brands aren't doing. Santa Cruz has been there and done that and now they are just living off of their past glory. I used to ride a 5010. At the time of it's release it was awesome and cutting edge. The 5010 now is bland. Nothing new or cutting edge. More of the same and that's not exciting. If I were to buy a new bike, I'm looking at Transition or GG.
  • 1 0
 @rideallday110: I also simply prefer a good solid performing bike with a great value, such as Nukeproof. They keep stepping their game up every year, and their bikes review VERY well. They're $2-3K US less than a SC.
  • 10 4
 2021 is the year of price increases. the US dollar has fallen into the crapper, and demand outstrips supply. Our store is seeing price increases on items that were ordered last year!
  • 5 8
 Stop making stuff up: tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency

The dollar right now has more value than it did for the entire decade of 2004-2014.
  • 4 4
 Yeah you have the whole demand/supply for the worth of a dollar backwards haha
  • 13 1
 @atourgates: The US dollar has seen the largest decline in value compared to Asian/European/Canadian currencies since 2018 or so. For the past 3 years we have seen growth in value of the USD, and we're now back where we were in 2018, give or take. If you can't see how the decline this year decreases US purchasing power against other currencies, I don't know how to help you. Pretty basic economics. The USD to TWD exchange is the lowest it has bee in the past decade. How do you figure that impacts what we pay for things that are coming out of Taiwan? Simply put, things are more expensive than they were last year, and you the valued customer, get to pay that that difference. Not sure what the value of the greenback in 2004-2014 has to do with 2021 price increases, but please enlighten me?

@hi-dr-nick I'm not talking supply and demand of the USD, I am talking supply and demand of bike parts - more specifically the manufacturing and transportation of those parts.

I'll reiterate for you guys. Actually, no, instead of you morons skipping down to the comments, go read the article first!

Point one on currency, straight from the article you are in, to do with price increases: Exchange rates - The NTD (New Taiwan Dollar) has increased in value against the US dollar. A year ago, $1 USD bought you $30 NTD, now it only equates to just over $28NTD.

Point two, on demand issues, from the article you so clearly did not read: "Increased transportation costs - The shipping industry is currently running at capacity and, with demand outstripping supply, prices are skyrocketing for both sea and air freight, affecting a multitude of industries
Increased component costs - These same transport costs also affect the component companies that spec Santa Cruz's bikes, meaning the OE cost of the parts on a new Santa Cruz bike will be higher. Apparently, even packaging materials cost more due to the huge increase in online shopping."
I will add manufacturers cannot keep up with demand in many cases, adding new machinery, new facilities, more labour, also driving up costs. If you work for a shop, you are seeing priced go up on components and bikes for any ones of, if not all the reasons above.

But what the heck do I know...I'm just making stuff up that just happened to be in the article you are in the comments section of!
  • 4 0
 They gotta get while the getting is good. Once everything gets back to normal all those bikes they sold are going to be sitting in garages gathering dust. That used market for ebikes is going to blow up.....literally and figurativley.
  • 4 0
 The first signs of severe inflation hit around the first stimulus checks, and they keep coming. Bike company costs are only a small part of the story, the bigger factor is that people are clearly willing to spend the current price, supply is low...demand high. They’re increasing price because the market will bear it.
  • 4 0
 What is so good about Santa Cruz bikes? What makes them worth the extra 1500-2k for the same build that another brand has. Is it just free bearings? VPP is nothing you that makes the sale on a bike. They have no special angles or measurements that change your riding ability. I guess they look kinda cool but have just never understood what makes them so much more expensive than most.
  • 2 2
 All of the boutique brands have tremendous resale value. If you buy/sell bikes every couple years, you will take less of a hit with a high end brand. So to answer the question... you are paying for the name/brand. Doesn't mean its a better product... kinda like VW/Audi, Nissan/Infinity, or Toyota/Lexus.
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: No way you loose more with a VW than an Audi...don't compare them at the same price point...if that Audi costs 70k it will bomb down considerably even on the same day you purchase it.
And it's hard to compare car maintenance to bike maintenance.
  • 1 0
 @tonit91: vw fan I’m guessing ? Lol
  • 1 0
 @Baller7756: You are acting like being able to sell your three year old bike for 40% instead of 35% of what you bought it for makes this pricing ok. If anything, SC second hand market is good because SC keeps raising their prices or decreasing their spec each year.
  • 1 0
 @tonit91: Yeah, I debated adding context to that last part. The VW/Audi comparison was not related to the money component, but rather the quality component... i.e. the quality is the same, but one is regarded as high end and the other as entry level.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: Well... I usually sell every 1 to 2 years... and usually its the first couple years of the model. I would say on average I spend $6-8k on a new bike, and sell it for about a $1000 off retail. I consider it a $1000 per year rental. Yeti, and SC bikes sell within a week or two...
  • 6 2
 How about instead of complaining about bike prices you set a bike budget. Mine is bike price / miles where the equal to hits .25 cents. 1k bike, I need to put in 4K miles before I get any parts or upgrades.

You obviously can adjust to your preference, but realizing what you get out of what you put in puts chasing trends into perspective.

Comparing to cars, houses or education is pointless. All of those things retain, appreciate or depreciate at a significantly better rate than bikes. If bikes are an investment, you are a bad investor. Budget gives perspective and makes sure it stays a hobby. Because an 8k bike isn’t essential transportation
  • 3 2
 I’d rather complain about why the world doesn’t cater to MY wants and needs. This should solve all my problems.
  • 5 0
 Among reasons mostly not listed.... trillions in new USDs have been printed over the last year. More dollars chasing same number of goods = higher prices.
www.mises.ch/library/Rothbard_What_Has_Government_Done.pdf
  • 1 1
 Uh, only one part of your equation is reality though. It's a lesser number of goods. More dollars chasing the same number of goods doesnt automatically make things cost more. If that were the case we would have seen this price hike announcement last March after the first stimulus was announced and passed in a week because companies would be aware of the influx of cash into the market. Santa Cruz's reasons for the price hike are suspect, but it's not solely because more cash was infused into the market.
  • 1 0
 @ryd-or-die: I agree that it's not solely due to new cash, but you can't deny that's a massive part of of the equation. It's simple supply and demand which is realty.
  • 4 0
 the bike industry used to blame R&D and limited sales on high prices, now its hard to find a bike shop that has actually got any bikes to sell.
ive just bought a brand new motorbike for significantly less than i paid for my last MTB, seems like these Covid costs are only affecting the bicycle industry.
  • 2 3
 that's patently untrue. first, just because one thing used to drive costs, and now a different thing is driving costs up, does not mean either or both are invalid. There are tons of parameters with the ability to drive costs up. In fact, modern consumer goods run on such insanely low margins, that basically anything outside of perfect market conditions will drive the prices up. Very hard to drive them down...in fact, the last thing left that can reliably do that, you seriously do not want to happen. Deflation. second, If you bought a motorcyle for less than the cost of a mountain bike, you either bought a super expensive MTB or a very cheap Motorcycle, or both. No issues with either, but you are seriously comparing apples and oranges. they only commonality they share is they are both fun and have two wheels.
  • 2 0
 @conoat: motorcycle.honda.ca/model/dirtbikes/competition/crf450rx

Id call that significantly less than a top of the line Rocky, Santa Cruz or , Specialized bike...
  • 1 3
 @neroleeloo: $11,000 isn't less than any of those bikes! wtf are you looking at that's over $11,000 in MTB that isn't a blinged out Ebike?
  • 3 0
 @conoat: you either not very smart or completely out of touch with reality.This was posted 2 days ago...check out the price on the Instinct carbon 99:

www.pinkbike.com/news/the-complete-2021-rocky-mountain-instinct-lineup-compared.html

I invite you to go browse Specialized, SantaCruz and Trek website...look for their top of the line bikes...You’re in for a severe reality check my friend
  • 8 1
 The invisible hand strong at work.
  • 3 0
 Price creep happens every year. This just gave them an excuse to have it states clearly in the open. A company would very rarely aim to not increase profits every year. The price increases are always passed on to consumers, but the savings rarely are. And with the demand high and low supply they likely would be able to increase prices even more without it hurting them in the long run.
  • 6 0
 Shopping for a new bike. Your XO builds are over $1k more expense and 3lbs heavier. SC rider since 04....moving on now!
  • 3 0
 I have never seen a price decrease due to the market stabilizing. Let's take a look at the skateboard industry as an example. Pricing has remained remarkably stable despite costs going up. Santa Cruz Skateboards, from which @santacruzbicycles began has realized that their consumer cannot and will not absorb massive cost increases. Excessive profit motive will only drive consumers away. I rode Santa Cruz bikes for more than two decades but there are other options out there that better the ride quality and cost less than the current Santa Cruz bicycles. There used to be an incentive to support skateboard industry brands, but this one sold to investors and lost that appeal for me.
  • 3 0
 SC is owned by the same group that Cervelo is owned by. Take that for what its worth, but Cervelo targets the "has a lot of money and wants to show it in their choice of gear" crowd. Unfortunately, SC is starting to become the Cervelo of MTB. I think SC makes some of the best looking bikes on the market, but I, at the end of the day, don't care about looks as much as how much performance my dollar buys.

www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2015/07/03/santa-cruz-bicycles-sold-pon-holdings-owner-cerv%C3%A9lo-and-focus#.YEmuVJ1Kg2w
  • 4 0
 @HB208: I had to unfollow Santa Cruz on Instagram recently because I couldn’t stand to watch them mall grab the future with $10k mopeds. Time to move on to other brands...
  • 2 0
 @Spacejunk: Anyone who buys a SC ebike is an idiot. Holding my tongue on whether I like ebikes, the Orbea Rise looks better than anything SC has put out and is significantly cheaper.
  • 4 0
 Meanwhile Dartmoor and a bunch of no-fuss alu brands will let you carry around 300g more on your frame for 1/5th of the price and are ridden across the philipines, thailand, poland, south america, and Scotland!
  • 4 1
 2 years worth of bikes completely sold out in the past year and they have the nerve to raise their prices?

It's bad enough trying to actually get a bike. But tack on another 10% and your loyal customers aren't going stay loyal anymore. Especially when you have the likes of Yeti, Ibis, and Transition(to name a few) who haven't raised their pricing in an attempt to cash in on a global pandemic.

What a f*cking crying shame. I thought SC was one of the good ones.
  • 2 0
 They might not have raised their prices across the board, but wait for next MY bikes to appear. Pivot increased the price of the Trail 429 by ~$500 with the recent 'new model'....
  • 7 1
 I just bought a Ripmo so I'm good to go. Lol
  • 3 0
 go where? go let your ibis do the job?Smile
  • 1 0
 @conoat: GOIN TO RIP SOME TRAILS!!
  • 6 0
 And when everything returns to normal, the10% will remain.
  • 9 0
 No, it will increase a further 7%
  • 4 0
 @m1dg3t: golly willikers! I just wished a sody pop from the mercantile was still two bits!!??
  • 1 1
 @conoat: I'll keep it simple: You are a fool. The only thing 2 bits is your "brain"
  • 1 0
 @m1dg3t: stellar use of quotes! I "apologize" for upsetting you.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: LoL. Like I said, several times, you are a fool.
  • 5 0
 Well the good thing is that once COVID is over the prices will come back down. Riiiight.........
  • 2 0
 "Increased transportation costs - The shipping industry is currently running at capacity and, with demand outstripping supply, prices are skyrocketing for both sea and air freight, affecting a multitude of industries"

- We'll expect this promptly in other products too.

"Increased component costs - These same transport costs also affect the component companies that spec Santa Cruz's bikes, meaning the OE cost of the parts on a new Santa Cruz bike will be higher. Apparently, even packaging materials cost more due to the huge increase in online shopping."

- Not enough competition in component market - only 2 major players is enough to stifle supply.

"Exchange rates - The NTD (New Taiwan Dollar) has increased in value against the US dollar. A year ago, $1 USD bought you $30 NTD, now it only equates to just over $28NTD."

- Legit

"Tariffs - Joe Biden may have replaced Donald Trump in the Oval Office but the former President's tariffs remain in place and continue to affect prices."

- Could not find any recent info on this, although Trump did have tariffs in place for bikes.

"Assembly Costs - Santa Cruz has invested heavily to ensure their assembly plants exceed local guidelines for safety in the pandemic."

- Hard to argue this, although would have thought shutdowns also contributed (as has been the story).
  • 2 0
 Someone has to check if producing in China or somewhere is still price justified. China is rising prices too because they want to switch for more environment friendly manufacturing. There is this delivery for everything cost. Maybe it will be better by now moving production to domestic or east europe?
Better quality, cheaper transport, leaving money in friendly country, destroying chinas economy... maybe the price in american/european is acceptable now?
  • 5 1
 destroying China's economy by shifting mtb manufacturing back to EU? nice joke.
  • 1 0
 @DKDHILLER: seriously. Just post a poll on Pb asking “will u work a mfg for x price” and see how many of us say yes LOL
  • 5 3
 No one is talking about the elephant in the room and it's hilarious.

let's see...The US has borrowed something like 5,000,000,000,000 dollars in less than a year. this devalues the currency. then other currencies get strong and you lose buying power. this is inflation.

how is that Stimmy check treating you now!???
  • 2 1
 Yup! Inflation is going to be a killer. Not many people voting or supporting policy that counters it these days, unfortunately.
  • 3 2
 Re: printing = inflation, Modern Monetary Theory suggests otherwise: podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?l=fr&i=1000505970533
  • 2 1
 @Artigas: modern monetary theory is written and taught by the people that are printing the money. convienent!


It's all horseshit. It's voodoo, slight of hand theory that ignores humans and their actions when presented with pressure.

MMT completely discounts the Laffer Curve almost wholecloth. Evidence in the real world proves Laffer correct. MMT is simply an elitist flat earth society.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: Prices are going up everywhere, not just in the US.
  • 2 1
 @boozed: that's because everywhere has rapidly growing debt! the planet is bankrupt.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

only 3 of 208 countries with reported data, have no external debt. this doesn't even take into account internal debt. the planet has lived beyond it's means for 100 years. The gig is up. Its going to be a game of musical chairs with 20 countries. The difference is instead of there being 19 chairs and 1 odd man out, there will only be 1 chair...
  • 2 0
 It's not just boutique brands putting up prices. I bought a 2021 Trek Checkpoint SL5 last June for £2,600. That same model is now £3,100. That's over 19% price increase. Trek can easily blame COVID, shipping costs and in the UK, Brexit and seem perfectly reasonable (some their bikes for the European market – like my Checkpoint – are assembled in Germany). But I find it hard to believe there's not a big dollop of 'make money before the bubble bursts!' in that price hike, too. #capitalism
  • 2 0
 SC aren’t a boutique brand. They are mass produced in the Far East like every other big conglomerate they are now part of
  • 1 0
 @CM999: That's true, but compared to the volumes of Trek or Specialized, they're a boutique. Maybe I should have typed "smaller brands"?
  • 2 0
 So much fuss...Everybody is buying bikes because it's a passport to be outdoor. Just wait until Covid is gone or just residual and everything opens - Pubs, discos, restaurants, etc. Friday and Saturday night comes back and those guys and girls will stay in bed saturday and sunday morning. The 2 hand market will blow be great hahahahahaha
  • 2 0
 They're such pigs...now demand increases, they increase the price too and use covid as an excuse, if not brexit or whatever's on the news. When petrol prices drop, do they lower the price????
If brands released an enduro bike that's a super simple single pivot design, with quiality components at an affordable price they'd sell millions.
Let's say Rock shox 35 fork, microshift 8 speed transmission, deore brakes, pnw dropper... c'mon, It can be done for 1200-1400€ easily...Components like those are perfectly reliable and functional. You don't need kashima to be fast.
  • 6 1
 Time to bite the Bullit and buy an SC asap
  • 4 0
 Supply and demand. Or put another way: The rule of money-the people with the money make the rules.
  • 1 0
 welcome to earth
  • 8 3
 Volume is also way up so that should offset the price increase...SC is just terrible at forecasting and poorly managed this “ crisis”

Dont be so gullible, this my friend is pure greed bullshit
  • 5 1
 Yeah, except that shipping containers can hold a lot of shit. So when you are talking about small boxes with build kits, forks, and frames, you could probably fit a fifty to a hundred bikes into a shipping container. So cost per unit isn't enough to justify a 10% increase on a product that costs $4k-8k. Plus, every other bike brand pays the same amount and they, along with RM, are the only ones starting to push $6k for a GX build kit without performance elite or factory suspension.
  • 5 0
 @HB208: This^^. This shipping cost increase is the same on a $6000 SC as on a $200 Wal-mart bike. The cost of a 40 ft container from China to US is about $5k, and that fits close to 300 full-suspension 29ers. You're talking $20 per bike for the end product
  • 6 0
 @dsut4392: Yes, people are fooling themselves if they think shipping has gone up multiple hundreds of dollars on bikes. If that was the case, walmart bikes would be doubling or tripling in price, as you alluded. Someone else pointed out that the supply chain woes are forcing them to air ship bike frames. That could be the case, but maybe SC should eat that a bit if they can't get their shit together.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: Canyon air-freighted my complete bike Frankfurt-Miami-SFO-Honolulu-Sydney-Melbourne-Hobart and charged me $150 for the privilege...

I'm not saying SC should be charging less - it's a free market, and like other manufacturers positioning themselves at the premium end of the market, SC pricing is based on what the market will pay rather than on their actual cost.
  • 4 0
 Looks like I’ll have to wait a year for a less expensive V5 nomad on pinkbike
  • 5 0
 And just like that, dental fees has also risen 10% to match.
  • 2 0
 Maybe time to swap "Dentist" for Bike Co. employee?
  • 1 0
 Yes shipping prices have gone up and I hear some companies switched to getting their frames via ships instead of planes, which evens out cost, but takes a lot longer obviously. Regardless if this is true or nor, I believe in the end, companies who produce in-house or at least in-country will see a huge surge in demand and I can even see customers being happy to pay more for it. The one thing I don't quite understand is, that demand is up because of a lot of people picking up biking, but I would assume alnmost no one starting to ride is ready to pay $7000 and up for a bike, yet whatever high end model you want to buy or even high end parts, they're all sold out, unavailable...out of stock.
  • 1 0
 I am also flummoxed by this same thing. Maybe it's the resellers who are snapping up the $7000 bikes and hoping they can screw someone over in the resale market. Lord knows I've seen it enough on some of these pb ads. "You won't be able to find this bike anywhere else, and I won't charge you the 10% upcharge that bike shops will" while selling a 2016 alu bike with mid tier components for 6k.
  • 3 0
 Curious to see what consumers decide. My guess is more will flood to better valued options, as design and technology seems to have improved for most across the board.
  • 2 0
 oh no mass produced made in china "boutique" rising prices to get more profit. how original
european hand made customs becoming more cheaper compared to china produced boutiques.
  • 2 0
 Just a question for the future:
- will the prices go down again after everything goes back to normal?
- or will they keep the prices high just because people are willing to pay anyway?
  • 1 1
 this will not go back because those newly printed money will not disappear even if the pandemic is over. And the price will be higher and higher because cash printers of the US are speeding up, hence a continuous climbing trend of inflation.
  • 2 1
 I’m just assuming that a lot of these companies are using the last 12 months as an excuse to put up their prices. They were probably planning on doing it anyway but now they have something to blame it on to deflect from their greed.
  • 1 0
 In 1995 a pair of alpine skis purchased at a brick and mortar ski shop cost about $699 and a high end MTB purchased at a LBS cost about $2500. In 2021 a high end MTB costs $6k+ and most new skis can still be found for around $699. I’d say it’s the ski industry that’s more F’d...
  • 4 0
 Meanwhile a Jeffsy Core 4, carbon X01 build with fox factory squishy bits is $4999.
  • 1 0
 To all the people who were acting pissed about how YT was moving away from model years: Theoretically, doing that will keep this from happening and their prices should stay reasonable, as well as actually having bikes in stock most of the time. Hopefully it actually works, and other brands will follow in their footsteps.
  • 2 0
 I thought for sure that direct-buy bike companies would have brought prices down for a lot of companies and made them adapt their business models to direct-buy, but that hasn't seemed to happen.
  • 1 0
 I’m hoping to limp my 2014 along for 2 more years. I still love my bike and nothing new seems worth the price to me right now. My hope is in 2 years we will be looking at a bit of an oversupply as manufacturers rush to meet current demand.
  • 1 0
 I bought the new Santa Cruz Bullit with the X01 Reserve kit from the first shipment last December for a little over 10k€ and very happy with the value. Carbon frame, carbon handlebar and rims. X01, DT350 Hubs, Kashima everything. 2021 Specialized Turbo Kenevo with alu frame and mid-range alu parts is 7600€. So for a little more I got a high end package. And knowing the 3-year SC life-cycle the price will be divided over a long period of time, and with the top spec I don't need to constantly upgrade parts.
  • 1 0
 i have not purchased a current model year bike since the late 90's

i am always buying new but unsold stock from the previous model year at massive discounts (i got a 2019 rocky mountain instinct c50 for nearly 50% off just because it was early 2020 and the next years model was out).......that isn't looking likely no more though with demand outstripping supply. just hope i don't break any of my bikes anytime soon.
  • 1 0
 So let’s raise prices even thought Santa Cruz is selling out and bike brands including Walmart fat bikes are selling out. Ok I get it shipping cost is increasing but again sales for mtb is through the roof bike shops can’t keep them in stock. How about lower prices 10 percent, look at another component companies instead of the same two or three transition to a more direct to consumer model for the time being and stay true to customer satisfaction and making a great bike. This raising prices when people are being put out of work and relying on a stimulus check is just insane IMO. Here is an idea make a pandemic model, have it cost anywhere from 2500 to 3000, don’t use big brand stuff, keep is simple 120 to 140 worth of travel, good geometry doesn’t have to be carbon just need to ride well under all conditions and last.
  • 1 0
 10%? Yeah just add that to the manufacturer’s/distributor's margins.

They'll be crying when the market shrinks when the true affects of covid job losses are felt. The first markets to be hit will be high spend/maintenance indulgence hobbies.
  • 1 0
 I was about to put a deposit down for a X01 RSV bullit for 2022 (due Aug/Sept) ( got a rebate on my mortgage) 1 of the 3 shops i got quote from cant and wont freeze the 2021 price but will give me 10% off ? they state santa cruz will put the bikes up at least 10% average , so there top model might get a 5-10% increase so i still get 5% off or 5% increase on 2021 pricing on 2022 model, also i get FOC Invisiframe . other 2 quotes is same deposit but a 2021 price freeze and nothing else. I think im going to wait 18 months . .Im glad i got my Levo SL Comp carbon for 12% off right before 1st UK lockdown in may 2020 . also in september 2020 i got a 2020 Creo SL Expert evo for 40% off from perhaps best bike shop on the planet but had to drive to it . I will just keep these going and lose 11kg in body weight instead of £11k...whats also strange all 3 bike shops state the SC 2022 bullit will still have same colours ,, hahaha seems fishy to me ( selling 2021 stock as 2022) ..even though im in love with that copper colour .
  • 6 2
 Specialized already did it...
  • 13 0
 Except that you can get the new Specialized Stumpy Evo Expert, which has a mixture of Gx and X01 and performance elite suspension for $5k, which is less than the Hightower's GX build that only comes with performance suspension and no X01 parts. At this point, SC can F off with their pricing. My next bike will either be the bike I mentioned above, a Orbea Occam, or a Canyon Spectral 29er. A 10 percent jump means that you will be paying $5,700 for a meh spec. Santa Cruz makes nice bikes, but not that nice.
  • 3 0
 Shit, I mean, even Transition is offering a Sentinel GX build that comes with performance elite suspension for $5,500.
  • 9 0
 @HB208: There were a few years when most of SC's models would go on sale at Backcountry for 15% - 30% off at the end of the season.

Made them downright affordable, and how I got my Miami-Vice colorway Nomad, still the best looking bike I've ever owned.

Anyway, can't see myself buying another SC for a good while, despite the fact they make some nice bikes.
  • 2 0
 @atourgates: Same. I probably could convince myself to buy one at 2019 prices, but the current pricing just does not make sense unless you literally don't care about burning money. Which, hey, some people don't, but I would assume most do.
  • 4 0
 @atourgates: agreed. End of season sale is the only reason I could afford my SC. Won’t be looking at new ones a these prices though. Same can be said for MANY companies I suppose. Just look at the prices of those Rockys!
  • 1 0
 @HB208: No you can't, because they are sold out till 2022
  • 1 0
 @KSP-PRODUCTIONS: Ok, I can wait. I have a bike I like well enough. Plus, it's not like SC bikes are really in stock either.
  • 1 0
 @atourgates: Hey congrats on that Miami Vice Nomad--that was a naaaaughty bike that I had no business on with my skill set, but f*ck me if I didn't want to buy one just because it spoke to the rad 12 year old living inside of me. Happy to hear you are still enjoying it man!
  • 1 0
 @HB208: The Occam jumps out as a great deal, you can build up the AL H20 with Fox Factory and an SLX/XT drivetrain for under $4K, even with Orbea's COVID price increases.
  • 2 0
 @ChiefSilverback: Yup. My wife got the deal of the century. She ordered the H30 at the beginning of covid (which is all SLX) and then Orbea ran out of the model so the shop bumped her to the H20 at no cost. So basically, she got almost $1k off the bike in comparison to if she had ordered the H20 this year. She didn't upgrade to Factory suspension. She is a new rider so doesn't necessarily need it.
  • 1 0
 @HB208: I've got an Oiz H10TR on order from Orbea. Placed the order back in September and they just moved my estimated ship date from 4/14 to 3/25.

They don't offer the Fox Factory upgrade on the Oiz H10 otherwise I'd have probably gone for it because they're only charging you the difference between the Performance and the Factory.
  • 1 0
 @mikealive: sadly sold it a couple years ago. The Smuggler I replaced it with is a great bike, and more “appropriate” for most of my local riding, but damn do I miss that bike.
  • 4 0
 Price Signalling. Hey Santa Cruz - run this shit past your lawyer...
  • 4 2
 Don't think of it as prices going up, but the value of your money going down! You can thank the governments for devaluing fiat currencies....
  • 3 2
 Okay but what do Italian cars have to do with any of this?
  • 2 0
 soooo.... the most expensive brand gets more expensive...... I can buy a matching spec on most other brands and get better parts anyways.
  • 5 0
 The spice must flow.
  • 4 1
 raw materials are cheaper for 21 and 22 product runs, 10% just profit increase nothing more
  • 4 1
 I think if you could afford a Santacruz carbon bike before price rises then you can afford one after.
  • 3 0
 £3600 for a CC frame in the UK, that's utterly scandalous. I feel my current Hightower frame will be my last SC.
  • 1 0
 You guys should see how much some of these frames cost already in Aus/NZ... +10% will push them towards 6.5K.
  • 4 1
 It's the start of massive reshoring. Made in USA (and Canada, aye), bring it back baby.
  • 1 0
 Querstion: would u work a mfg job?
  • 1 0
 @cuban-b: Answer: Yes I already do!
  • 1 0
 Santa Cruz also hasn’t had to mark down a bike in its dealer portal for years. They’re doing just fine, it’s simply a matter of they can (increase prices), so they will.
  • 4 1
 Santa Cruz 'are' / Santa Cruz 'have' reads really weird to me.
  • 4 0
 Literacy is a lost art
  • 1 0
 It's how it's written in English, which after all is where English comes from Smile
  • 2 0
 Should be "is" & "has" - and I speak fluent Journalese as well as English English.
  • 3 0
 I'd like a 10% raise too! Greedy bastards.
  • 2 0
 I save money by riding a singlespeed hardtail. Who am I kidding, it's titanium and everything on it is carbon.
  • 3 0
 10% more for a bike I can’t get
  • 4 1
 Bring manufacturing back to the US!
  • 1 2
 Lol. You assume Americans have the skill and modesty to perform such jobs lol. A buncha entitled untalented bumpkins can’t hold down Taco Bell jobs, let alone mfg production jobs where you have to show up on time and not be stoned. ‘muricuh can’t compete with everyone else.
  • 3 0
 Not a problem, wasn't going to buy one anyway.
  • 4 3
 It's not compulsory to buy one of you don't want too. Buy something in your budget instead. Lots of jealous poor people on here.
  • 1 0
 About a 6.66% drop in us dollars worth against tiawan dollar means the 2nd most expensive big bike brand make a 10% increase in price to the consumer?
  • 2 1
 Yes, because there were 4 other significant cost factors they listed which are all legitimate.

Shipping costs have increased by over 1000% in a lot of cases.

Component costs are up 10-20% already and are likely to rise further

Tariffs still exist, they are costing significantly not just financially but also in terms of the amount of work needed to be done by the import teams.

Covid restrictions in factories are significantly reducing the amount of output per employee that is possible so you have to either pay more people or make less stuff than 14 months ago.

All of that adding up to only 3.44%? Its likely Santa Cruz are making a lot less net profit per bike sale than they used to, even after this price rise.
  • 3 2
 @Patrick9-32: In a recent interview with the CEO of SC he said they were shipping more bike than they ever had, so COVID obviously hasn't impacted productivity too much. Also I think shipping prices have gone up 200 - 300%, not 1000%. Even if they had, assuming SC brings in frames from Asia and does all the assembly in the US, I estimate you could fit at least 800 frames in a 40' container, pre-Covid it looks like ~$1500 was the cost to ship from Asia to US west coast, so maybe $1.90/frame, so a 10x (1000%) increase would take that to $19/frame which is a far cry from 10% of the cost of an SC!
  • 5 1
 @ChiefSilverback:

You can assemble more bikes than ever and it still cost you more per bike to do that assembly, you have to employ more people or spend a lot on new production equipment.

I work in a bike manufacturer, air shipping has gone up 1000%, sea shipping at least 500% (but your container might not arrive for 6 months when the door to door shipping time used to be 6 weeks). Your estimate of how many bikes you can fit in a container is also a long way out. If you think of it in complete bikes (all the parts have to come from somewhere, even if they are not assembled when shipped) you can probably get around 2-300 mountain bikes per container if you don't have the wheels built or any assembly done in the far east. (we don't make mountain bikes so I don't know specifics but it is definitely more than 3 cubic feet per packaged bike.)

Also raw material costs are up massively (if you can get hold of them at all)

Manufacturers are hurting badly right now. We have more orders than ever and we can't get the parts to build or ship them and everything we do is costing more money than it ever has before.

From a pure capitalism point of view, every manufacturer is raising prices. If it was all fake and they were just trying to squeeze consumers wouldn't the best thing be to keep prices the same and advertise hard on that fact, bringing people to your brand, making people distrust the others and building a long term fan base, increasing volumes and increasing profits. It might not be the best strategy for every manufacturer but the fact that none of them are doing so has to say something.
  • 1 0
 @Patrick9-32: My comments were based on the interview with the CEO of SC I watched, and he didn't make any mention of hiring more staff, or investing in new equipment, just that they are turning out more bikes than they ever have before.

As for shipping, I searched for the prices from Asia to west coast USA which seem to have been far less impacted than other routes from what I could find.
  • 1 0
 @Patrick9-32: how dare you share facts and see other perspectives!
  • 4 0
 Money money money $$$
  • 3 0
 It's alright, I didn't want one anyway.
  • 3 0
 Unaffordable just got unaffordabler
  • 2 3
 All commodities and raw materials are price increasing including metal and carbon... the reason is because cash printers of US government are speeding up (USD 1.9 trillion, you kidding me?) for economy stimulation, which is leading to a ridiculously massive inflation all over the world! So people outside the US are really the victims who need to pay for what the US is doing! That said, when people in the US receive money from the government for pandemic, people all over the world are paying for that through inflation of raw material...
  • 2 0
 According to the letter the price increase is only MY 21/22. we all know the prices will not go back down in 2023.
  • 1 0
 lets talk about how covid pricing will never come back down and even after production is back to normal, they still gonna pocket big off us.
  • 2 0
 They probably sold more bikes last year than any other year due to covid ......
  • 1 0
 My new SC frame in 2005 cost 1k. My new SC frame in 2020 cost 1.7k

I don't see a problem with the cost of either.

However...

Wages dont/won't have near doubled..
  • 1 0
 sure, container shipping freight costs has gone up. however what about the previous years when the shipping market was at rock bottom? did they reduce their prices?
  • 2 0
 Glad I just built a new bike, now I just need to sell the old one.
  • 1 0
 Fortunately for you, prices for used bikes have also gone up significantly.
  • 3 4
 if santa cruz would accept bitcoin the BTC per bike would gradually become less over time (albiet very volatile) deflationary, my dear watson... tesla's already thinking this way, who will be the first major bike company?
  • 2 0
 Bud, you can't buy a SC direct.
  • 3 1
 @HB208: ...yet.
  • 1 0
 their bikes were outrageously expensive to start with... why bother buying one now ??
  • 2 0
 Nobody forces us to buy bikes (SC or other)
  • 2 0
 No, because marketing is so good these days.
  • 1 0
 I got lucky. Snagged my new commencal supreme last week on sale for $900 off.
  • 8 7
 Santa Cruz trying to jack the price up on some janky Chinese made plastic frames and blaming it on covid. ????????
  • 1 2
 Jealous much? Lol
  • 1 0
 And all the bikes are sold out, so you can't get one until after April 2nd anyways.
  • 4 2
 Making The Santa Cruz Wuhan Great Aga$n ..... no thanks Santa Cruz
  • 1 1
 Lol Asians are taking over so you’re just projecting. Good luck
  • 2 0
 So what was their reasoning before?
  • 2 0
 If you raise it, Nerds will pay.
  • 1 1
 Since nerds earn waaaaay more than you, yes your statement is correct
  • 1 0
 Sad reality is they couldn't do this if there wasn't the demand to support it.
  • 3 0
 Evil for life son!!!
  • 2 0
 Yeah that's why they raised prices. Lol
  • 3 1
 NX is gonna be popular for the China Cruz
  • 1 2
 Bumpkins can’t compete unfortunately lol
  • 1 0
 So they will reduce their prices of about 10% when the crisis is over, can't wait !
  • 2 0
 Well, guess i'm gonna continue ride my old bike
  • 4 2
 Correction: due to the effects of the covid cult.
  • 2 0
 Maybe more cost affective to bring some manufacturing back to the states?
  • 3 2
 Honda Civic Type R ~30k€. Santa Cruz Bike ~10k€.
Santa Cruz your business model is outdated!
  • 2 1
 Japan and China are two different countries. Just like someone of your kin was Austrian LoL
  • 1 0
 @cuban-b: Actually my kin is from Scotland, Yorkshire, Bavaria and Siebenbuergen. No Austrians to report and we can trace our family back to mid 14th century. How about you? And this has nothing to do with the reality that I can get a 300bhp car with brembo and full sachs racing adjustables for 30k or three pushbikes with mediocre rockshox products
  • 2 0
 It's not like their bikes aren'tt already expensive enough.
  • 1 0
 YT Jeffsy starts at $2700 and has Fox Performance spec. Why are so many people complaining here!!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 I can't buy a house , I can't Buy a truck....cry me a river . work harder, sleep less, ride more!
  • 2 0
 Well, gg make their announcement just spot on
  • 2 0
 Buy Bitcoin instead of a Santa Cruz
  • 2 1
 Due to COVID! Excuse for everything! Already one of the most overpriced brands out there
  • 1 1
 Agreed... the Covid Shutdowns were very impactful to particular industries restaurants, bars, travel et al. But most manufactures kept running the large majority of time. I don't buy the covid excuse for raising prices.
  • 2 0
 I didn't think it was possible for SC to get any more expensive!!
  • 1 0
 "Santa Cruz are the Latest Brand to Increase Retail Prices Due to People on Pinkbike boasting how much tax they pay" FTFY
  • 1 0
 What's going on with the crowns on the bike in the photo, have missed something,??
  • 1 0
 Sad I just bought a 2021 Kawasaki 300 for the same price as a Nomad R build.
  • 2 0
 ouch
  • 3 2
 god i wish i was as drunk as that guy a couple weeks ago...
  • 2 1
 Well I was just going to get a tallboy. I will consider the spur instead
  • 2 0
 Or the Epic Evo is an option. Or the Norco Optic. That's one of Kaz's favorite bikes apparently.
  • 2 0
 Get an Evil Followin. You will not be dissapointed
  • 2 0
 @OlManJenkins: following a good option but epic evo better specs and pricing and before discounts
  • 2 0
 @HB208: Norco raised prices last month, as well. The Optic C2 increased ~15%
  • 2 0
 @nodata2000: You still get a performance elite fork and XT components for $5,100. Plus, I think it was $4,800 when I looked last month, which is like a 5-7% increase, not 15%. The C3 is $4,100 and you get a mixture of SLX/XT and RS select fork and ultimate shock. Seems like a good value outside of the direct brands.
  • 2 0
 @HB208: C2 Shimano build was $4449 USD. I know because I may or may not have purchased...
  • 2 0
 @nodata2000: Maybe, and it sounds like bought it so I believe you, however, I just put the page into the Wayback Machine and it was $6k CAD ($4.8k USD) Q3 of last year. Regardless, a $300 jump isn't too bad.
  • 1 0
 If you can finance it, it doesn’t get cheaper.
  • 7 6
 Losing their a$$ cause the bikes are Chinese made
  • 2 1
 Well maybe if us Americans weren’t so shitty at mfg maybe we could make them here
  • 3 2
 Who buys Santa Cruz anyways..
  • 2 0
 ahahahaha..
  • 1 0
 Lmao if only they kept assembling and manufacturing in us
  • 1 0
 Any excuse to make pon more money
  • 1 0
 E bikers be like, chump change
  • 1 0
 Not affordable anyway so makes no difference.
  • 1 0
 Just keep riding your old rig and save some money
  • 2 0
 Or.... you can buy mine and save lots of $$$$$$$$$ !!!!!!!!!
  • 3 1
 Its just greed !
  • 1 0
 How about just saying "We're charging more because we know we can"
  • 1 0
 Ill sell me 2021 tallboy for the right price.
  • 1 0
 you won't own anything but you will be happy anyway.... step by step
  • 1 0
 why is the fork crown on backwards on the Santa Cruz in the main picture?
  • 1 0
 Comming from the most expensive and overpriced brand in the industry....
  • 2 4
 Least you can get a Pro-Spec YT for like 30% of the cost of a top end Santa Cruz. The Aluminum portion of the market seems unfazed by all the market issues.
  • 13 0
 No you can’t. They’re gone.
  • 3 0
 @CircusMaximus: There's that, haha
  • 9 11
 Haaaaahhahahah good thing I bought my Tallboy last year suckers
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