The New Santa Cruz Nomad is Longer and Slacker Than Ever – First Ride

Jun 1, 2017
by Mike Kazimer  



Who says freeride is dead? Not Santa Cruz, and to prove it they've created a new Nomad, one that's bigger, badder, and more gravity oriented than ever before. Okay, so maybe they're not using the term “freeride,” but with 170mm of travel, a 64.6-degree head angle (in the low setting) and a new rear suspension layout inspired by the V10, this is about as close as you can get to a pedal-able downhill bike.

Given the success of the previous Nomad, Santa Cruz could have taken the easy road and just tweaked the geometry a little bit and slapped on a new paint job, but they made the conscious decision to push version 4.0 into new territory.
Santa Cruz Nomad Details

• Intended use: shredding the gnar
• Wheel size: 27.5"
• Rear wheel travel: 170mm
• 64.6º or 65º head angle
• Carbon frame, C or CC options
• Metric shock sizing
• Boost hub spacing
• MSRP: $4,499 - $9,399 USD ($8,399 as shown)
• Weight: 30lb / 13.6kg (size large)
• Available: June 15
www.santacruzbicycles.com

After all, the 150mm Bronson has the all-mountain side of things pretty well covered, and don't forget that the 29”-wheeled Hightower and its upcoming longer travel sibling — in short, something needed to be done to make sure the Nomad didn't get lost in the crowd.

Prices start at $4,499 USD for the Nomad C R, which comes with a 170mm RockShox Yari up front, SRAM Guide R brakes, and a SRAM NX 11-speed drivetrain. At the other end of the scale is the $9,399 USD Nomad CC XX1 Reserve, which gets Santa Cruz's highest end carbon wheels, an XX1 Eagle drivetrain, Code RSC brakes, and a RockShox Lyric RCT3.

The bike pictured above is the $8,399 Nomad CC X01 Reserve; highlights include a 12-speed SRAM X01 Eagle drivetrain, Code RSC brakes, Reserve carbon wheels with DT Swiss 350 hubs, and a Lyrik RCT3 fork.


Santa Cruz Nomad 4

Frame Design

The rear suspension layout is the most immediately apparent difference between the new Nomad and its predecessor, with the shock situated low in the frame where it passes through a split in the seat tube. As you'd expect, it's still a VPP design, with two large counter-rotating links that control the 170mm of travel.

Even with that split seat tube design, Santa Cruz still managed to internally route the dropper post housing (it runs through a tube molded inside the non-driveside of the frame), and to fit dropper posts with appropriate amounts of travel – 150mm on a size medium, and 170mm on the large and extra-large sizes.


Santa Cruz Nomad 4
In addition to a downtube protector near the bottom bracket, there's also a guard to help prevent frame damage from shuttling.
Santa Cruz Nomad 4
A tiny bolt-on fender helps keep mud away from the shock.


The Nomad is designed to play well with both coil and air-sprung shocks; riders can choose from a RockShox Super Deluxe Coil RCT, or a Super Deluxe Air RCT. There's a small integrated fender bolted onto the frame to help keep some of the mud and grit that this bike will undoubtedly be subjected to at bay. Other frame niceties include a guard on the underside of the down tube to prevent the frame scuffs and dings that all-too-often accompany a day of shuttling, and there's even enough room to carry a full-size water bottle inside the front triangle.

The Nomad is debuting with a full carbon frame, but there is an alloy model on the way that should be available in the fall at a more budget friendly pricepoint.


Santa Cruz Nomad 4 geometry

The previous generation Nomad was a trail-smashing beast in its own right, which meant that there wasn't any need to go too wild when it came time to revise the geometry numbers, although the reach has been lengthened by 22mm — a size large now measures 460mm. A few millimeters were trimmed off the chainstay length, which is now 430mm, and thanks to a flip chip on the lower link the bike's head angle can be set at either 64.6º with a 339mm BB height, or 65º with a 344mm BB height.


Santa Cruz Nomad 4

Reserve Wheels

Along with the new bike, Santa Cruz is also launching their own line of carbon wheels, called “Reserve.” Rather than re-labeling an existing rim profile, Santa Cruz set out to develop their own unique design, drawing on their in-house expertise and carbon testing facilities.

The result is a rim shape that has a slight protrusion above each spoke hole, external reinforcement that's intended to help keep spokes from pulling through the rim, one of the modes of failure that Santa Cruz found with other carbon wheels. The rim and spoke holes are asymmetric in order to even out the spoke tension between the drive and non-driveside as much as possible, and they're laced up with 28 spokes using a 3-cross pattern. There will be two 27.5” internal rim widths available — 27 and 30mm, and the 29” wheels will be available with an internal width of 25, 27, or 30mm.

The Reserve wheels will add $1,200 USD to the MSRP of a complete bike, and they'll also be available as aftermarket items this fall. Laced up with Industry Nine hubs, a complete wheelset will retail for $1,899 USD, or $1,599 with DT Swiss 350 hubs.

Just like Santa Cruz's frames and bearings, the Reserve wheels come with a lifetime warranty. When a damaged wheel is received at Santa Cruz's California facility, they promise a 24-hour turnaround, an impressively quick time frame that should help keep the amount of time off the bike to a minimum.


Santa Cruz Nomad 4
Santa Cruz Nomad v3
New vs. old - the fourth and third generations of the Santa Cruz Nomad.


3 Nomad Questions With Jack Russell, Santa Cruz Bicycles' Senior Industrial Designer

Mike Kazimer - Who do you see as being the ideal rider for the new Nomad?

Jack Russell - I don't really know what to call it, but the bike was built for people who want to ride gnarly descents where you can't shuttle. It was not built as an enduro race bike or any kind of race bike for that matter. It's more of a mountain bike that you will never feel like is holding you back in the "I would do this on my downhill bike, but not on this trail bike" kind of way. It's a bike for trails where you can't stop once you drop in, it's a bike that solves the problem of "Should I bring my trail bike or DH bike on this trip?" I think a lot of people will think of it as a park bike, but personally, when I think park bike, I think of a short travel DH bike that can't pedal up hills. This one can pedal. Adventure-duro maybe?

Kazimer - Given the popularity of the previous Nomad, when this project started, was their one main goal you were trying to achieve?

Russell - When we began this project we looked at where the N3 was and what people used it for when it came out, and what people use it for now and how riding has changed in the last few years. Also, we looked at what the Bronson was being used for. We made a deliberate decision to push the N4 closer to a DH bike and not go down the path of making it an enduro race bike. This is a different path than the N3 took, but we think this is an underserved market and the Bronson can do most of what the N3 could do.


Kazimer - What was the reason for deviating from the suspension layout seen on the Nomad 3? What's the benefit of the new configuration?

Russell - The main reason for the lower link mounted shock on the N4 is to give it a similar leverage ratio as the V10. To get that leverage ratio you have to attach the shock to the lower link. We have had years and years of experience with the V10 leverage rate and have been tweaking and improving it with the Syndicate. We knew the most uncompromised way to make this "full DH bike feeling trail bike" work was to give it a V10 leverage ratio.

The V10/N4 leverage ratio is a linearly-progressive line that works great with a coil or air, depending on how you want to the bike to feel and is always predictable, which is great for dialing in the tune. With all that leverage ratio stuff happening, we were able to give the bike the correct amount of anti-squat so you can still pedal it up a hill.





Rather than going through the whole rigamarole that typically accompanies a new bike launch — traveling to a far away destination, and then trying to get accustomed to a strange bike on unfamiliar trails — Santa Cruz sent a new Nomad to my stomping grounds in Bellingham, Washington. So far I've been able to get in a bunch of solid rides aboard the new rig, several of those on the steep and loamy trails close to my house, and the rest on the sharp, dusty, and loose terrain outside of Pemberton, BC. In other words, plenty of time to formulate some initial impressions about the new Nomad's handling.


Climbing

The new Nomad's focus may be almost entirely on going downhill, but the fact that both the air and coil shock options have a lockout feature means that with the flip of a lever it's possible to turn it into a manageable climber. No, it's not the bike to grab if you regularly seek out extra-technical climbs full of slow speed maneuvers — the slack head angle and long wheelbase make those type of ascents more challenging than they would be on a shorter travel bike with steeper geo numbers — but the Nomad has no trouble cruising up steep logging roads en-route to the day's descent. That 30 pound weight is very reasonable considering the burly build kit, although the Nomad's climbing manners are still more steady than sprightly; it doesn't exactly strain at the reins when faced with a big climb.

Even without the lockout lever engaged the Nomad's rear suspension remains fairly calm, unless you're standing up and really putting the power down, at which point there's a little extra rear end movement, but it's anything out of the ordinary, especially for a bike with this much travel. In short, the new Nomad can climb, but its subdued handling mirrors how I imagine Floyd Mayweather feels between fights, twiddling his thumbs while he waits for smashing time to commence.


Oops...

There was one small snafu that happened after only a few shuttle runs on the Nomad — I cracked the rear rim. Yes, that brand new Santa Cruz Reserve carbon rim met its untimely demise when I came up a foot short on a stepdown, smacking the rear wheel squarely into one of the cedar logs that formed the backside of the landing. Time to make use of that lifetime warranty and 24-hour turnaround... The incident was fully user error, and I'm sure that there would have been some sort of damage even if I'd been on an aluminum rim. Santa Cruz has since sent out a replacement, and I'll be putting this one to the test over the coming months in order to see how it holds up.


Santa Cruz Nomad 4

Descending

The previous Nomad was an excellent descender, but version 4.0 has an entirely different feel — it's about as close to a downhill bike as you can get without a dual crown fork. The bike's weight feels centered around the bottom bracket, and the lengthened front center combined with the shorter chainstays makes it easy to pull up into a manual, or arc turns down steep, loose chutes. That 170mm of plush travel goes a long way towards smoothing out the roughest of trails — you'd be hard-pressed to find a track the Nomad can't handle. The rear end feels very composed throughout the entirety of its travel, free from any unexpected harshness or abrupt ramp up.

So far my time on the Nomad has been split between the air shock and the coil shock, and while they both work very well, at this point I prefer the feel of the air-sprung RockShox Super Deluxe Air RCT. It makes the bike feel more energetic and eager, with a little more ramp-up towards the end of the travel. If I was focused solely on plowing through rough, rocky sections of trail, I'd lean towards the coil option, but for more varied terrain, and especially when it comes to hitting jumps, the air shock is the way to go.

Should you rush out to buy a Nomad? Honestly, unless you're lucky enough to have relatively easy access to trails that are worthy of a 170mm mini-downhill bike, probably not. Yes, it's wickedly fun, but this is a bike that needs room to run — taking it on mellow flow trails is like forcing a mountain lion to live indoors. It's even a bit much for most enduro races — this is a bike that's made for seeking out the burliest descents, not sprinting against the clock.

On the other hand, for riders who are fortunate to live in close proximity to long, gnarly trails, the Nomad should be a formidable weapon. We're going to keep putting the miles in on it, miles that will include plenty of time in the Whistler Bike Park, in order to see how it holds up. Stay tuned for a follow-up report once the pummeling is over.








520 Comments

  • + 519
 Hmmmm....got to admit, and i hate to say it, it may be awesome.... but the previous version looked better!!
  • + 32
 Agreed.
  • + 109
 This thing looks terrible.
  • - 33
flag no1000 Plus (Jun 1, 2017 at 0:27) (Below Threshold)
 Looks much better than previous version. WAke up and smell the coffee
  • + 104
 The desert tan is pretty awesome, though, and I think it suits the new frame's aesthetic best. Rugged, functional, and purposeful. Yetis are pretty; this is more like a baja truck. Anyway, it's still a strong profile and I think it'll grow on us.
  • + 13
 I take none in 'I can't beleive it's not butter' yellow ????
  • + 53
 I think it looks really good. Super burly and aggressive.
  • + 43
 Well if it doesn't look as good then what's the point! I suppose we can ignore the fact that this will finally have a decent leverage curve and suspension performance.....
  • + 58
 @Bluefire: I'm calling that color 'weathered white male'
  • + 16
 @Racer951: can't wait to see the aluminium version!

Or the new long travel 29er!
  • + 13
 yeah, slacker, longer, and they defo forgot uglier...also adventure-duro...wtf???? Looks like rock shox should #BRING BACK THE TOTEM with all these burly new bikes. Still Im sure it rides really well, and colours are cool, not like the new ibis or tracer which are just horrible. Love all these LT new bikes anyways, they make lots of sense.
  • - 52
flag MmmBones (Jun 1, 2017 at 1:33) (Below Threshold)
 looks like trek session
  • + 12
 @Racer951: on PB looks are everything and technical improvements (except weight) doesn't matter...
  • + 95
 @Bluefire: I'm going with 'prosthetic limb beige'
  • + 0
 @MmmBones: Ha... yawn.
  • + 27
 When you re-design a frame based on fitting a XL water bottle
  • + 3
 @Yahh: I think you will find it has more to do with the strange leverage curve the old Nomad and most other SC bikes except the V10 share.
  • + 11
 Hmm, Max Commencal
  • + 69
 welcome to 2017, where riders care more about looks than just about anything else.
  • + 3
 @Yahh: I'm glad I am not the only one who thought that!
  • + 12
 @MmmBones: Looks like a GT Sensor
  • + 15
 @whitebullit: Nah, that's not it. When paying this kind of money and in 2017, a bike needs to both look awesome and ride off the charts.
  • + 6
 @Bluefire: spot on man I think it looks rad.
  • + 2
 N3>n4
  • + 8
 @Demoguy: yeah, it's also reminding me a bit of an old Rocky Mountain Slayer SXC

I applaud their bravery for stepping away from their traditional designs and trying something new.

It's definitely not for me but they have focused on a specific target rider here.
  • + 5
 @stefanfresh: a new totem would be awesome, but i doubt they will ever release anything bigger than 35mm again.... because accountants
  • - 2
 Not a fan of the new design, where is the 29 though? it need more travel then
  • + 90
 My new girlfriend looks worse but she fucks better
  • + 5
 @mkul7r4: Possibly the best PB comment i've actually ever read!!!!!
  • + 3
 Looks like a Strega, Juliana?
  • + 7
 I like the new one better. Especially like that low shock position.
  • + 1
 @Bluefire: marzocchi had a fork that color years ago - pretty sure it was called Hershey Squirt
  • - 1
 Agree. SantaCruz bikes starting to look like shit.
  • + 7
 Looks better, as do most bikes with the shock down low. Evil, gt, ...
  • + 3
 100% Agree, my first thought when I saw this was..Damn that doesn't look like a Santa Cruz...not as bad as the new Polygon, but definitely takes some getting used to. That being said, when you're riding a bike do you really care how it looks?

Also...did I read that Santa Cruz warrantied a wheel that was damaged completely by user error? That seems to good to be true.
  • + 5
 Glad you have your priorities straight. The pinkbike rider demographic is a sad bunch
  • + 0
 Atleast there's a lot of space for that bottle cage!
  • - 11
flag Ride406orDie (Jun 1, 2017 at 7:42) (Below Threshold)
 Last version looked better, glad I went with my Knolly Delirium.
  • + 18
 @Ride406orDie: I am not sure if your opinion is valid here if you think a Knolly is in any way a good looking bike.
  • + 8
 I have a feeling you never owned a Nomad
  • + 2
 @whitebullit: It's not 2017. It has always been. Would you spend thousands of your hard-earned cash on a bike that you're not in love with, just because it is functional or well-built?
  • + 17
 @Protato: Man, I find it so lame and irritating for people to come here and criticize a bike's appearance on the day it has been announced to the public.
To Santa Cruz engineers and managers, I think it's sweet. Congrats on the release.
  • + 7
 I thought the opposite - finally a Santa Cruz bike with some decent colours. Although I don't like the rear shock being too low as it's a nightmare to clean.
  • + 6
 Required shock position for a counter rotating link bike. If it wasn't using such a pointless design then they wouldn't have to jump through hoops to get the leverage rate they want.

Rear hose routing still looks crap. Why do they persist in routing along the seat stay? Have a look at a new Enduro for how hose routing should be done.

They more I look at messy designs like this the more I think all bikes will end up looking like Trek/Norco/DW in the future. Anything can be achieved leverage rate wise with such a design and it's by far the neatest.
  • + 2
 I used to think SC had some of the best paint jobs in the industry, the older Bronson, the 5010, the High Tower
(I love the red version), but I no longer think that. These bikes look uninspired from a paint point of view.
  • - 1
 @jclnv: all designs can produce similar kinematics. The best engineering designs are the simplest. Geo and suspension trump suspension design anyday imo. Not sure why SC went with a shorter rear end, The climbing will suffer along with stability. I think I would pass on this bike.
  • + 3
 @mkul7r4: Lady on the streets but a freak in the sheets!!!
  • + 11
 Hmmm... not only did the previous version look better, but according to their own video (dated Mar 2016) which summarized the testing of the mule version of this and comparing it back to back with the V3 version, "the consensus was that the upper link mounted shock (ie. V3 older version) was the bike that had the better bump performance, and so that's what ended up going into production. So, here's what could have been (ie. the mule version of this V4 version) and would have been had it been preferred by the guys (ie. to the V3)."
Video is here - skip to 9:20 in:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaC_UOsnRRQ
So kind of funny, that they are now saying this is an improvement??? Change for the sake of change? And if the V10 can look so good - how can they make this look so bad? Planned obsolescence?
  • + 1
 @jaydawg69: You can't produce linear/falling rate on a counter link when the shock is driven off the upper link. Which is a shame as the bikes certainly look cleaner in that format. IMO they're just trying to fudge a flawed design. They should just can the VPP marketing BS and start making single pivots or Horst-Linked 4-Bars like everyone else.

Suspension certainly doesn't trump kinematics as anyone with a current 650b Stumpjumper or previous Bronson will tell you. Those bikes are pretty much unfixable regardless of shock.

Agree regarding the rear centre but it seems they've designed this bike for park rats and shuttles who love the "short chainstays bro".
  • + 5
 The more I look at it, the more I like it.
  • + 1
 @trillot: I guess SC would rather have worse bump compliance than a shitty leverage ratio.
  • + 0
 @jclnv: you can certainly help bad kinematics with good suspension. That's what they did/tried with the Nomad. I guess it depends how flawed the kinematics is in the first place or what the issue is.
  • + 1
 This is what long and slack looks like. I can't say I'm a fan, but that's the way it is.
  • + 1
 @jaame: It would be awesome though wouldnt it?
  • + 3
 Ohh mmyh god, look at her bottom bracket. I like big cranks and I can't lie.
  • - 1
 The blue and gold is fine, nothing special, I hate the tan one. I actually liked the crazy colors theyve been doing the last few years, I hope they dont go back to boring.
  • + 1
 With this "kinda" new models it's all just about where to stick the rear shock... always.... Smile
  • + 3
 @Happymtbfr: pretty much! Aesthetics are huge her on the pb!
  • + 2
 @bohns1: if it's $10k better look as good as it rides.
  • + 3
 @mkul7r4: if it's $10k better look as good as it rides.
  • + 3
 Personally I prefer the looks of the new ones over the old one. The old one looked a bit too slick, this one looks more aggro, which I like. The lower top tube makes me happy too. And even though it is not for me, those who prefer to ride with a bottle should have it easier reaching for the bottle on the new design than it was on the old one. Adventure-duro, I'll add it to the ever expanding list of cycling disciplines...
  • + 1
 @Protato: I don't think it looks terrible; that's a bit extreme. But it sure looks different than we are accustom to. It's a more true freeride bike now.. They have incorporated a lot of features of the Devinci Spartan.
  • + 0
 @someguy101: That's a broad statement. The whole line?!?!
  • + 0
 Best review you're likely to see - www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJgQo3UuFbc
  • + 2
 @someguy101: Exactly! I do like to sit and gaze at my bikes during the long cold winters!
  • + 2
 @Franziskaner: I think the official color name in the catalog will be "JC Penney Mannequin".
  • + 1
 @onemind123: ask Bryson!!!
  • + 1
 @stefanfresh: the totem was an awesome fork. I fell in love with it the first time I saw it.

Sold it last year and got a fox 36. I works better but it doesn't set my pants on fire like the totem did. Plus it creaks.
  • + 2
 to me, a low center of gravity is always sexy.
  • + 1
 As a designer, I am surprised all of you opionists think this bike is ugly. Frame looks lighter and it has a simpler swing arm set up. Color isn't bad either. It's very jeep military. There is a lot of hate from people that I'm sure have questionable taste. Personally I want a carbon 26" version but I'm sure I'll eventually be on board with the 27.5
  • - 1
 @xzpsmk: Not sure why you felt the need to tell us you are 'a designer' but whatever makes you feel all superior and stuff.
I actually think the bike looks incredible, I'm just not 100% on the paint choices.
  • + 2
 @sledMXer: How about 'Trump's Neck'
  • + 1
 @mkul7r4: thank you, just thank you.
  • + 0
 @whitebullit: welcome to a sport where lycra was banned because of looks! THIS GOES TO ALL OF YOU WHO SAY THAT LOOKS IN BIKING ARE NOT IMPORTANT, OBVIOUSLY THE INDUSTRY SHOULD BE CAREFUL! And it goes for that artcile there was here on pinkbike about people saying a certain bike forgot the name was ugly!
  • + 4
 @stefanfresh: I personally group the people bitching about the looks of this bike with lycra wearers, so I don't really relate to your anecdote
  • + 1
 @stefanfresh: Dude, all those capitals. If I read it out loud, I'll wake up the neighbours.

As for cycling clothing, lycra never appealed to me because it has no advantages but the poor durability is a disadvantage. I'd rip it within a single ride. Not just from crashes, also from thorns and branches. What's wrong with a simple shirt and shorts? I'm going to get sweaty and dirty anyway, no need to go all tech about that. I only started riding with DH type shorts because they really are stronger (than cotton, which wears and rips eventually). But banning lycra because of the looks, I must have missed that. Actually before the UCI banned lycra for WC DH racing (which isn't the same context as what this bike is for) people were obliged to wear a skin suit at the World Championships. And the MTB Cut team (with the likes of Ben Cathro, maybe Chris Porter was involved too) was riding pink Orange 223 or 224 bikes and in black skin suits. It wasn't about looks, they just wanted to be fast and not worry too much about their garment.

So I'd say looks may count, but they are nowhere near as important as performance, durability, compatibility and maintainability.
  • + 1
 @vinay, @me2menow: man just what the hell are you guys talking about? I said UCI world cup dh, where they wore lycra beacause it supossedly made them faster... but 29ers are ok for the same reason, but whatever!
  • + 1
 @Franziskaner: My comment wasn't targeted towards you. just trying to be positive about the bike. I was hoping the designer comment would give me some credibility since I am pretty sure we were talking about aesthetics.
  • + 1
 @stefanfresh: Ah, I missed where you said that. Still can't find it.

Anyway, UCI WC DH racing is a different context than what this bike is for. This Santa Cruz Nomad bike is not a downhill bike and it is not primarily intended for competitive racing. People riding these are free to wear whatever they feel like.
  • + 1
 @vinay: Man, you are like on a completely different world to me. I said, welcome to a sport where Lycra was "banned" because of looks. In dh world cups they agreed to stop wearing lycra beacuse it didn´t look cool, so all Im saying is that looks obviously are important for the sport, being it the bikes or the kit! Also it´s funny you mention compatibility is important cause if you follow the industry a bit you can see they are not too big on that either...
  • + 2
 Who cares
  • + 1
 @Squeakybb: true, true
  • + 1
 Saw Loose Dog on the cream coloured version on Sunday. They look way better in the flesh, very clean lines. Photo really doesn't do it justice, unfortunately. The only thing that was a bit of an eyesore was the upper linkage. Gotta agree though, the previous version does look nicer even though technically not as good.
  • + 3
 @trillot: There can be a very big performance difference between one or another implementation of a particular style of linkage. The comments made in connection to that earlier mule by the Santa Cruz staffer don't suggest that there was no way to get things right with a shock driven from the lower link. Compared to that earlier mule the shock on this bike is longer and the mount point of the shock on the lower short link that drives it is entirely different. So, this bike would have a significantly different leverage ratio curve and thus suspension performance characteristics to the earlier mule. There are lots of reports coming in (documented in video clips) suggesting that the new suspension is good and that the rear wheel tracks very well.

That longer and rotationally 'slower' upper link should also slow down the fall in anti-rise that is characteristic of VPP bikes as travel increases and that is detrimental to maintaining both geometry stability under brakes and braking traction.
  • + 119
 www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/nomad

If you go to their website and check the spec list on the S build, you will see something new from Sram as well Smile
  • + 21
 gx 12er
  • + 20
 GX Eagle Wink
  • + 14
 Nice catch!
  • + 16
 that may be the greatest part about this whole article hahaha so under the radar, good looks man! as much flack as we gave the eagle launch, im not gonna lie, that is something that could be a great add on to anyone who has a xd driver. ato a rider that may be looking at a 1x11 build, might as well go gx
  • + 7
 You should become a PI
  • + 5
 There's already a placeholder on the sram site:

www.sram.com/sram/mountain/family/GX-eagle
  • - 5
flag scottay2hottay (Jun 1, 2017 at 7:02) (Below Threshold)
 @csquared253: I had xo1 eagle and was so unimpressed that I exchanged it for xtr 1-11 with an e-thirteen 9-44 cassette. I also broke the derailleur twice, it was fragile as shit. xtr is amazing.
  • + 5
 every single enduro bike last week is now out of date
  • + 11
 To be named EaGXle. It was either that or "Eagle for non-dentists"
  • + 2
 Please say you can get a 165mm crank arm length.
  • + 1
 Why wouldn't they make X1 Eagle first?
  • - 1
 Ne znam zakaj ekipa drka na Eagla... Ja se penjem sa novim Tracerom čist ok na XT kazeti 11-46. I isto tako me sve skupa doslo drito na pol cijene. XTR shifter/derailleur, KMC lanac i RaceFace G4 cranks.

Osim toga, zlatna boja nije za mene he
  • + 4
 @RM3851: That's what she said.
  • + 1
 @cornichons: LOLz. Yeah, she pretty much did.
  • - 1
 @RM3851: Zato jer ima veci range i skokovi izmedju zupcanika su gladji. Cijena je drugi par rukava. Vidis da ekipa ima love pa hoce sve najbolje Wink XT 11-46 je isto u redu, imao sam ga na starom bajku.
  • + 1
 @tgent: Eagles don't have teeth. They do have claws though. Is this for people who do manicure? Should come at an exciting price point then Wink !
  • + 2
 RIP shimano
  • + 1
 @scottay2hottay: u for real.. I went the opposite direction! Smooth as silk shifting
  • + 0
 @tevaru: My 2018 Jekyll is almost the same,nothing in that bike so new,nothing radical or different to the main stream bikes,just the same. Today I ride a little bit a Nomad 3 and it feels like a BMX,same size L,nothing to do whit a 2017-2018 bike.
  • + 73
 Really interesting direction for the Nomad. Now I am even more curious to see the new long travel 29 since that is obviously the new race weapon. Well done on SC to create real separation in their product line and daring to still take chances.
  • + 9
 Someone recently said SC used to innovate, but now they just iterate. Well hopefully this is the start of some overdue innovation. Like.
  • + 23
 They wanted revenge since the Capra beat the Nomad in almost every review at 1/3 the cost. YT woke up this morning saying "Hold my pilsner"......T.B.C
  • + 16
 @Boardlife69: I was going to buy a Capra but then I bought a second hand nomad because.... they are exactly the same bike!

I read all the reviews a million times and basically if you take price out of the equation, they are both too similar to split... except SC build and finish quality is streets ahead.

Capra beats nomad 3 on price only.
  • + 4
 @jaame: I'm not sure I agree that they don't innovate anymore. They have been the first bike brand to try loads of new things that have since become the industry norm.

I can't see how you can say they just iterate after all of the hype around their 29er at Lourdes.
  • + 1
 They'll blow every other manufacturer out of the water if they make the 29er this aggressive but with slightly less travel.
  • + 12
 @jaame: the older Nomad has a strange suspension leverage curve though that the Capra doesn't - that's the whole point of moving to this new design.
  • + 9
 @jaame: with different leverage ratios the only similarites may have been geo and travel. They felt completly different with the Capra being a lot more poppy and fun with a bit more reserve when things got hairy. Sorry but NOT the same bike. And price IS important. Buy a SC and live on bread and water the next few months. Buy YT and take a pimp mid winter vacation to Finale and still afford to eat at those horrible tourist resturants.
  • - 1
 @Boardlife69: hey guys, we haven't sold the Noton for a while, lets make a new one...
  • + 1
 @timlake:

I didn't coin that, I read it in the comments section of Pinkbike, but I kind of do agree with it. Pretty much all their bikes of the last five years look the same.

Regarding Capra vs N3, obviously I was using hyperbole when saying they are exactly the same bike, but they are very similar. Don't get me wrong, I live the Capra. I made a deal to buy one from PB buy sell, but the seller pulled out. I was gutted, even though I knew about the sub standard finish of the carbon capra.

A second hand Nomad came up about ten k's away from me so I did a lot of reading and research. I was satisfied that the Capra was getting better reviews than the Nomad primarily because of the price. Take price out of the equation and I think it's too close to call for someone like me who only rides about two hours a month due to work and family commitments.

If a scientist can prove the Capra is 3.2% more poppy or whatever I won't argue. It may well be, but for the likes of me they are basically the same bike... with the exception of the SC having undeniably better finish quality. I would prefer it to be made in Taiwan rather than China, but shit happens.
  • + 1
 @jaame: I cant comment on if a frame is 'poppy' or not as shock setup has a lot to do with this but you do need to at least take into account that the Nomad had a strange suspension setup in terms of leverage ratio and its sizing was very dated, all over quite a dated bike which has now seen a considerable update.

The Capra has a decent suspension leverage curve though sizing also seemed a little small previously at least 5"6 guys are not on large bikes.....
  • + 3
 @Racer951: Well I don't know about that, I've got a DHX2 on mine, and anyway as I said I only ride about two hours a month off road.

Regarding the geometry, it may be dated in that I have to use a 50mm stem as opposed to a 35, but I'm pretty sure there are still a lot of pros using 50 and longer stems. I seem to recall Bryce uses a 65. Just because something is in fashion doesn't necessarily mean it's better for everyone. Does it?

I had a 35 on mine for the first month and it was worse both uphill and down. After I put the 50 on it was night and day better. I know it was designed around a 50mm stem, and the new one may well be designed around a 32mm, but I don't think we can say that a very short stem is better for everyone at all times. You have to admit, a lot of it is driven by fashion.
  • + 4
 Capra aside, SC made the conscious decision to sell fewer N4 than the N3 by moving it in the freeride direction. I think their money is on selling lots of 29ers but said hey this N4 could be fun so let's do it.
  • - 3
 @jaame: I dont mean any offence by this but if you ride around 2 hours off road per month you are probably not the target market for more aggressive bikes - you are likely just not riding at a level where a longer bike would be beneficial to you and you are probably better off on a shorter bike due to the speed you will be riding.

How can you tell if a 30 or 50mm stem is better if you hardly ride?

I am suprised you have the Nomad to be honest, do you ride proper DH style terrain for those 2 hrs? If not, it may be a good idea to look for something with a little less travel?
  • + 17
 @jasdo: Somewhere, Bulitt is thinking, "Nomad...I am your father."
  • + 4
 HAHA, people posting youtube links claiming it's a fact bike A is better then bike B. HAHA.
  • + 9
 @Racer951: I used to ride a lot until my wife and kids got in the way. I'm still OK on a bike. I mean, when you start young you and put the time in, you never really lose it. I literally spent hours a day riding for about ten years so I'm hardly a pro, but I am probably in the top 20% of riders still. Not top 20% at Whistler, but 20% of people around here.

Stems wise, it was easy to feel a difference instantly. I was riding a lot more at the end of last year because I did a race and my wife made a lot of time for me to train but this year... not so much.

You're right though, I would get more out of a short travel 29er most of the time, but I didn't buy my bike for that. I bought it for the twice a year I do a shuttle day in Wales. It's my way of acting out the fantasy I guess!
  • + 2
 @jaame: Dead on. I've said this for quite a while.
  • + 6
 @Racer951: and now you are preaching. This was an interesting exchange, until you placed your judgement into his riding. You have no idea how he rides. Plenty of people have been riding bikes for a long long time and can bomb, but have reached a stage of life where commitments to other things don't allow for as much riding as one would like. Talk frame design and the merits of different designs all day long, don't tell people you know what bike they should ride.
  • + 3
 @VwHarman: I did say I meant to offence and I wasnt preaching but I do stand by the fact that the older Nomad will probably suit Jaame better, he certainly seems happy with it too. Its maybe something we should all think about when getting older / less time to ride - Would we be better off with a shorter travel / less aggro bike?

@jaame - Real life gets in the way for most people, I have hardly been out this year, sold my DH bike at the end of 2016 because of lack of use (used once the whole year) and value any time I can get out on the bike now - So I wasnt trying to preach because it sounds like we are in a similar, all too common situation, I used to race DH, certainly know how to ride a bike still but know I am not as sharp as I used to and that maybe a 170mm long and low bike just isnt the best thing for me to be on anymore.... My intentions dont match up to the reality of how much / where I can ride, it sucks but thats life.....
  • + 5
 @Racer951: no worries. People buy what they want, not necessarily what they need. Look at the Yamaha R1, or the LaFerrari as proof of that.

Personally I believe that a lot more is made of small differences in MTB geometry than those differences actually make in the real world. 80% rider, 20% bike. I could be wrong.
  • + 1
 @jaame: Totally agree - If we only ever bought what we need how boring would life be?

I think geometry is a lot about mental state, If you are comfortable then it can make a huge difference, look at the DH racers who will change geo by 0.5 of a degree after having a tough race, searching for answers / confidence to go quicker.
  • + 3
 @jaame: I would say the suspension design on the Capra is better than the VPP of the N3. That extremely progressive ramp up at the end of the Capra's stroke is a very nice touch to make the bike have more rear feedback.
  • + 1
 @AlexS1: There are other options out there for a long travel 29er with great geometry numbers that will not be blown out of the water. Yeti 5.5, Evil Wreckoning, and Trek Slash just to name a few. The only thing that would make dentists buy a SC is the fact that its a Santa Cruz. They have a big stigma attached to their brand.
  • + 3
 @Lastpikd: i thought that SWorks was a brand for dentists... I know one dentist who rides and she owns a Capra...
  • + 4
 rant all day about capra and N3... now the n4's geometry is updated and is within few mm of a 16-17 Canfield Balance, for example. Kinematics wise, no one should claim capra is better than N3 or viceversa, they are different. I still stick to Canfield though. Ride your bikes!
  • + 1
 I love it, this bike screams "FUN". The SC line needed some separation in their models. This bike is on my short list for my next purchase. Hopefully they have some more color options. I also hope they keep the 27.5 V10 in production.
  • + 3
 @jaame: Naw, the Capra is way more progressive than the N3. The N4 has fixed that.

1. Price matters.
2. It's also nice to have something different in a world full of SCs (I've owned 3 SCs).


Edit - I wouldn't have written this had I read all the other remarks.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns:

"I know one dentist who rides and she owns a Capra..."

I like her.
  • + 2
 @Lagr1980: This is why I ride a RIOT. The bros just know what makes bikes fun.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Is it because when PBers talk about bikes for dentists, they are talking about bikes for dentists who do not live in countries with socialized medicine?
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: While I am a dentist that rides, you only know me from here. No S-Works or halo builds for me. I ride a modestly built Evil Wreckoning and prior to that was aboard a Banshee Rune.

@codypup: Most likely such comments are directed at American dentists, but I've met plenty of Canadian and European dentists that do just fine.
  • + 1
 @E-ROG: There are lots of colour options, it is called a custom full frame wrap. Then you can have what ever your imagination allows/ heart wants and you get 3M protection as a bonus.

nsmb.com/articles/kazs-ride-lightning-santa-cruz-bronson
  • + 2
 @codypup: More like the vp-free...
  • + 2
 @jaame: Copying the Firebird/Uzzi is innovation?
  • + 3
 @gdnorm: good point. at least it looks different!
  • + 1
 @Lastpikd: I'm saying this assuming that the suspension is pure dh. I think every bike rides differently and I'm sure we can't just value a bike just from price point and the components it comes with. It's just that a good rider can adapt to any good bike easily. Like the old saying, 90% rider, 10% bike. The only long travel 29er I can comfortably afford is the alloy e29 Smile
  • + 3
 @codypup: no, even dentists, doctors and therapists in counties with "socialized healthcare" earn good salaries. Keep reading that anti healthcare propaganda. Stay misinformed. Power to the corporations!
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: my friend's next door neighbour is a dentist. He works about 20 hours a week, takes three or four holidays a year, drives a BMW M4 and always has a top of the line carbon road bike (three at the moment actually).
  • + 3
 @jaame: dentists, pharmacists tend to earn well and live good lives (unlike surgeons) but I can't complain, they offer a crucial service to humanity. I recently spotted a shitty wealthy breed in my building/real estate branch. 30-40 project leaders, born to members of the board in the company. I am glad I stopped working with one last year, 3yr old Porsche cabrio, boutique clothing, huge watch, Trek Top Fuel 9.9. Dude was giving me sht about keeping the budget all the time, while his stupid decisions (or rather staggering indecision driven by staggering lack of experience) were costing company millions. Senior engineer in the project hated him. For cotrast I know three super cool guys who started their own construction management company - super cool guys not minding to get their hands dirty on the site. But those entitled fks ugh...
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: one of my friends is a surgeon and she makes about £80k a year (before tax, so about £16k after tax).

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against anyone getting well paid. As you say, it's how you handle yourself. Rich or poor, just don't be a c*nt and you're all right by me.
  • + 1
 @jaame: It will get better Smile . My daughters are five and six years old now and I'm getting more and more riding in again. In fact, I take my oldest daughter along every now and then. Of course you can't go too wild, but there is always some low speed tech stuff to work on, just like you'd do on a group ride when you've got less experienced or less fit riders along. That's the good bit about mountainbiking right, there is always room for more messing about. Maybe someday you'll turn into a great trials rider Wink .

As for geometry, I'd argue these longer and slacker bikes are just for riding harder and faster. The creators of Pole and the Nicolai Geometron will agree. My bikes (DMR Switchback and Cannondale Prophet) have relatively short rear ends by modern standards (about 420mm, I think) but also short front centers. When I started riding I probably hammered with my mid foot but I was taught to learn to ride with the ball of my foot over the axle. And with these concave pedals, that also felt good. But I got these Catalyst pedals as soon as they came out and they are designed to be ridden with the foot much more forwards over the pedal. So basically the rear end got longer and the front got shorter, relative to my mass. Maybe by 40 or 50mm. Which is a lot in geometry terms. And I definitely notice. I always used to put relatively much weight over the front and little over the rear but I think it got more extreme this past year. The chart says I need to run about 4.5bar in the forks, I run about 7 bar to maintain my ride height. And I rarely wash out the front, but easily wash out the rear (without braking, obviously). So yeah if I'd get a new frame, I probably would get one with a considerably longer front.

Especially as chainstays haven't gotten shorter (despite the marketing blah). And really, how do they measure chainstay length on full suspension bikes anyway? Except maybe for those designs with a raised pivot (and idler pulley to match) the axle is most rearwards around the sag point. So whether the suspension compresses or decompresses, the rear axle moves forwards (despite the marketing blah, again).

So much for geometry. As for suspension travel I agree that you'd ideally want just enough to leave enough to challenge you.
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: some of us in the US still have our sense of humor, despite the news being all black.
  • + 1
 @jaame: 80K Euros for a surgeon? That seems grossly underpaid. Bus drivers here make more.
  • + 3
 @endlessblockades: Bus drivers that make $103'000 a year? Where are they driving? Eighty thousand pounds is a big wage here in the UK, near as damnit three times the national average.
  • + 1
 @Fix-the-Spade: I am guilty of exaggeration, I'm afraid. I was repeating something I heard and I thought there was more currency exchange parity. I did google it and this is more realistic:


"Most Muni operators make anywhere from $60,000 to $70,000 a year, according to public records."

They also get full beneits, retirement, 401k and whatnot.

Beginning surgeons have it better:

The Profiles survey shows the median income for general surgeons as $225,000 in their first year. Pediatric surgeons are also lower at a median of $295,000, as are vascular surgeons at $259,400. Cardiothoracic surgeons start at a median income of $360,000, orthopedic surgeons at $315,000, and neurosurgeons at $395,000.
  • + 2
 @timlake: It is tough to innovate from top, many of the two link designs out there are variations on the vpp design. I don't actually see that there will be much innovation from this point beyond material science developments pushing weight down over time. Although i can see a day where all the large wheel technology is applied to 26" and they 'discover 11% less weight in 26" wheels vs 29ers!! lol same as when k bontrager started cutting down road rims to make light 26" rims way back in the day.
  • + 1
 @Racer951: I think the point is described in the article, the Bronson has the space covered. the new Nomad is a mini dh sled. the 'strange leverage curve' is very deliberate for use with air cans iirc as they naturally have a extremely non-linear spring rate approaching bottom out.
  • + 1
 So not a shuttle/park bike...but best for shuttle/park use?
  • + 0
 @jaame: Agree..! Not to mention Santa Cruz support is miles ahead of YT!
  • + 1
 @bohns1: nice joke... made me laugh...
  • + 0
 @Trailstunter: Only speak the truth!
  • + 68
 I love whenever a carbon rim gets busted they immediately rationalize it with, "if it had been aluminum it probably would have broken as well." Whatever helps a dentist sleep at night...
  • + 28
 Dentists give me nightmares, but more than anything I included that line as a way to illustrate the force of the impact that caused the damage.
  • + 8
 @mikekazimer: Surely doesn't sound like it. It is the wording you used. "I'm sure that there would have been some sort of damage even if I'd been on an aluminum rim". Some sort? Even? I thought carbon was way stronger than aluminium. Or put it this way: At that ridiculous price point (compared to no boom boomy explody wheelsets) it certainly should be. But enough now, may I translate your statement for the average customer: Pretty sure an aluminium rim would have survivied.
  • + 27
 @mikekazimer: well I'm pretty happy that you guys never lie about carbon rims breaking
  • + 8
 @jaame: @jaame: It is good they say they break yes, but I agree with @Powderface, there are just many types of impacts where a carbon hoop will crack and aluminum will just get a dent or bent in... Not worth it for average riders unless you have so much to spare you don´t care.
  • + 3
 @stefanfresh: that's what I mean. I would never buy carbon rims
  • + 8
 It does not matter whether aluminium rim would survive this or not. What matters is that rim is a disposable item, just like drivetrain, so it is quite stupid do invest thousands of $ in it, unless you are rich enough to buy a few of them a year and you do not care.
  • + 21
 Coming up a foot short on most big jumps and smashing into the backside of a landing that has logs in is going to damage ANY rim, including aluminium (and to be honest, I have been there and done that). I think Mike was just making an honest point.

A different brand of carbon rims may have escaped unscathed and yet another brand would have probably failed catastrophically. Not all carbon rims are made equal.
  • + 5
 Low spoke counts don't help either. Carbon hoops always seem to have too few spokes. Maybe this is where the actual weight savings occur??
  • + 7
 @mikekazimer: If I really had the power to "give" people nightmares...man that would be awesome! Otherwise, my only thought on the N4 are Driver 8 2.0 and I'm psyched to see the Eagle GX. Oh and BTW, while my bike now is carbon my rims are not. Now, spit.
  • + 4
 @Konda: @Konda: It's not always about weight savings. For me carbon hoops is about not having to true my wheels every 10 rides. It ride very rocky trails and carbon holds up about the same as aluminum. I've had failures with both..
  • + 9
 I've killed 3 carbon rims in the last year (all fully my fault). I JUST had an alloy rear wheel built Saturday, and it's already toast. I'll take one carbon rim every 2,000-2,500 miles vs. an alloy rim a week, thank you very much. Besides lasting longer, I also don't have to touch carbon wheels with a spoke wrench. Whereas alloy wheels need touching up all the time.

High-quality carbon rims are pretty damn impressive these days.

YMMV, this is my experience riding 6,000 miles per year primarily in Fruita, GJ, and Moab - places that aren't friendly to rims.
  • + 4
 @NoahColorado: ~16 miles per day, eh? Damn...wish I didn't have to work.
  • + 2
 I've never dented my carbon rim
  • + 0
 @WhatToBuy: Well he works for MRP...
  • + 1
 @NoahColorado: What carbon are you riding? I've been blowing up roval traverse fatty sl rims and was going to switch to an aluminum flow, spank, or possibly dt. The roval's have also needed 35psi to avoid blowing out spokes.
  • + 1
 @Billjohn6: @NoahColorado is without a doubt a superior rider to me, but I am sure that I weigh more (and I'm likely goofier too). My last set of wheels that graced my '14 Banshee Rune (LB AM/DH 35 rims/Sapim Race spokes/Hadley hubs locally built) were trouble free for over 2.5 years. In that time, I never once flatted, burped or had any rim failure. I had one spoke break due to a stick getting caught in my wheel and the wheels never went out of true. I ride 2-4 days a week (N GA/E TN/W NC as well as a couple of bike park days), clock in at 220 lb +/- with gear and have the riding style of an angry bear. They stand as the most bombproof set of wheels I've ever owned in my nearly 30 years of riding. I will be building another set of them for my new bike and it's bigger wheels/spacing.
  • + 2
 @hellbelly: Did you get the heavy duty rim? Twice the price of a stans or spank rim ($200 vs $100), but the carbon is lighter and likely more stiff. Although I hear the flow mk3 feels incredibly stiff
  • + 2
 @Billjohn6: I had the AM lay-up on the front and the heavy duty in the back. The wheelset weighed about 1800 grams. It was stiff as hell and accelerated like nothing I've ever ridden. I recently spent a month riding a wheelset built with Flow Mk3/I-9 hubs. They were nice, but they did not spin up as fast nor were they as stiff as the LB's. The LB's were pretty incredible and it's tough to explain just how much I beat on them, never pulling any punches. The builder who has built many carbon wheels including ENVE's, Nox, Atomix, etc said they outlasted everything he's seen having had many of those brands break in less time under more svelte riders.
  • + 1
 @stefanfresh: That's me! Money to spare and don't care! That being said... Plenty affordable options... Nox and Noble being a few... Never had an issue, and that's hucking to flat as well off loading docks
  • + 67
 if this had been another make of bike people would be vomiting in their mouths
  • + 7
 Haha. So sad, but so true!
  • - 8
flag TheRaven (Jun 1, 2017 at 6:06) (Below Threshold)
 I still did. Well maybe that's exaggerating...but SC's products have always put me to sleep. Why buy SC when you can get the same bike with much more inspired asthetics from Intense? I guess if you are a hardcore function over form guy, I can see the argument. But for me, if i'm going to pay 6-10k for a bike, it better have function AND form perfected. SC's are a yawn fest.
  • + 48
 "The New Santa Cruz Nomad is Longer, Slacker and Uglier Than Ever".
  • - 6
flag Treze (Jun 1, 2017 at 3:32) (Below Threshold)
 You wanna know what's even uglier? Ignorance!
  • + 12
 @Treze: true, ignorance is ugly just like this bike is.
  • + 9
 @nyhc00: Ignorance - that would be a great bike name i.e. Evil Ignorance.
  • - 2
 @Treze: There are so many nice looking bikes on the market, it's for sure ignorance to find this beautiful ! Big Grin
  • + 1
 @KRVZ: well shoot, i must be stupid then
  • + 1
 @l8igz: Maybe you're not an engineer... ...maybe you haven't actually realised that form doesn't necessarily equal function...
  • + 1
 @KRVZ: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..."
  • + 19
 "No, it's not the bike to grab if you regularly seek out extra-technical climbs full of slow speed maneuvers — the slack head angle and long wheelbase make those type of ascents more challenging than they would be on a shorter travel bike with steeper geo numbers "
Headangle and wheelbase alone are certainly not responsible of the problem. The problem is rather the rider's weight distribution. With shorter chainstays than previous gen, and no steeper seatangle (or marginaly) of course it climbs less well. But put it a steep seatangle and you'll see... When will we get rid of this 72-esque angle really?! That's a value coming from rigid bikes used on flats! Yes, roadies usually stand on their pedals when climbing, not us, and their bikes won't sag whereas ours will. Hence the need for much steeper seatangles, even more if the reach increases! You'll otherwise feel stretched out like on a XC bike with a 120mm stem...
Also funny to see the bikes having a reach that is longer than what was considered way too long for the previous generation bike... It's like the axle dimensions and getting one more sprocket on the cassette every 4 years. Stop being scared of a big leap forward and make modern bikes right away! Unless it's just a business plan à la Apple.
This shout out is obviously not exclusively targeted at SC. Only a few brands (Mondraker and Nicolai come to mind first, but also a few other small brit brands) have been rethinking the dimensions of MTBs for modern use.
  • - 1
 Good analogy. SC is like apple. Used to innovate now just mass produces the same as everyone else but still charges the premium
  • + 2
 But it has 74.5° seat angle in the high setting. Doesn't it? Should be really spot on for climbing.
  • + 11
 I really think the next geometry step should be lengthening the chainstays on the larger sizes. With nearly everyone keeping the chainstays and seat angle the same across all frame sizes, taller riders, with a higher seat, sit closer to the rear axle and the bikes wheelie too much on steep climbs. The new SC Chameleon has 415-430mm chainstays and a 73 degree seat angle, even on the XL, which is just silly.
  • + 3
 @goroncy: I *guess* this is again an effective seat angle measured at head tube height. So something like 73 or less at full height. So almost zero change with previous generations. Except they've shortened chainstays and increased the reach. So your weight has more backward bias than ever before. And then if you ride up a slope with significant gradient with short chainstays it will even more influence the SAG and therefore further slacken your seat tube angle...
Try 77-78 ACTUAL seat angle. It's amazing. Even with too short chainstays.
  • + 3
 @Smevan: then you should buy Norco. I am pretty sure most of their bikes now sport Chau stay lengths that vary with the bike size. The Aurum definitely does.
  • + 1
 @EnduroManiac: And slacker the REAL STA the effective one gets even worse at full height.
  • - 1
 @EnduroManiac: it sounds like this bike is designed primarily for the downhills. Personally, I still like slack seat angles for the descents because it allows you to sit a bit during your run. Steep seat angles put your weight too far forward to sit while descending and you're forced to stand the entire way.
  • + 0
 I ride new 2018 bike, a little bit longer than new nomad,35mm stem and 170 mm fox36 and 165 mm back. I can climb on the seat the most technical stuff,at the first time I was climbing like in my old bike (out of the saddle and weight on the front wheel) and I was losing traction all time,grab a bigger gear,seat and relax and bum,you are at the top any drama...New bikes likes to keep you in the bike between the wheels ,not over the bike. I was doing weird things while climbing till I realize that,ass in the saddle,power on the pedals you are done.
  • + 2
 @EnduroManiac: OK. Got you. Still I think this is a good idea to ride the thing and check out.

Regarding extreme 77-78 angles I tried those "unusual" bikes during last Eurobike and I have to say I don't like them. There is always some trade-off when riding them. They tend to be very good e.g. in going fast down, going up great but feel like shit when doing jumps and bunny hops and are like buses when cornering. Germans went into these strange geometries because there is a niche for it and it sells. Otherwise companies like Nicolai would be in deep trouble cause they sell alloy frames for shit load of money with no carbon options. So until Germans will finally come up with a robot that does carbon frames they will have to sell their alloy frames for prices others are selling their carbon ones. Sorry for being so elaborate but this is a little bit complicated to explain all the bullshit that is going on in bike business.

Right now I ride 2016 Intense Tracer 275 and I am just looking for something equally versatile just a little bit more towards big jumps and park. But to be honest I don't feel much pressure because this is really an awesome bike. Not the execution. It's done like crap and it creaks like a pig but the suspension and geometry are just really good.
  • + 3
 @goroncy: Did you have a chance to ride (uphill) anything a bit steep at Eurobike? Because yes, on flat it's gonna feel weird a bit.
  • + 0
 @EnduroManiac: Thank goodness none of us ride on the flat!!
  • - 2
 @EnduroManiac: Yep. I was going steep and it was okeyish. But still. These are bikes for dentists that cached in and started MTB in their 30' to whom bunny hop is like a no go island.

I just don't like too long and too steep and too everything I suppose. And I am not very lonely here. Even the designer of the long geometry of Mondraker always said it was to make better times. He also said that Mondraker started using almost normal stems now which was never the intention.

If you like weird. Go for it.
  • + 1
 @carym: I feel some irony here Wink But I'm not sure what!
  • + 1
 @Smevan: I totally agree. I'd like to see an ESTA number measured for different seat heights. They obviously have these numbers. It would be a lot more useful that stating that every frame size has a 74' ESTA, which is technically true but not that useful since ESTA varies with seat height.

FYI the new Norcos are measured this way, that's why the Range 29 in XL has a slacker ESTA than the M. It's much closer to the truth but looks weird on paper compared to a brand that just gives the same number for every size.
  • + 1
 @Smevan: Not everybody. Chainstays length is the same on 95% of the brands because of the price. If you want a serious company that changes the whole geometry (I mean really the whole geometry) depending on the size is Liteville. This is not only about chainstays. It is about really changing the whole bike depending on the height of the rider. I am not saying Liteville rides well because I just don't know, but I know that they are extremely serious about that.
  • + 1
 @newenglandrocks: I did say "nearly everyone" Wink I'd read about the new Norco Sight on PinkBike earlier this week and been surprised by the varying chainstays, so that's a good shout.

@goroncy I didn't realise Liteville varied their chainstays, but happy to learn. It is exactly about changing the whole bike, you're right, but usually manufacturers do change the reach, stack height, seat tube length, crank length, etc, meaning it's only really the chainstays that mostly get left the same across the sizes.

@alexsin I hadn't really thought about that problem with quoting ESTA when it varies with seat height :s On the plus side, longer chainstays mean we could all have straight seat tubes again and ESTA would be simple again :p
  • + 2
 @goroncy: The cone/collet style axle hardware so prevalent now, including the T275 ( I ride a 2014) is stupid. It allows uncontrolled thrust of the bearings and is prone to creaking. I could write a novella on what I've been thru trying to remedy the creaks on mine.

Anyway, not mentioned here but over at Vital MTB Santa Cruz finally acknowledges the design is lame and have reverted to tried and true bearing design:

'Gone is the company’s angular contact bearing with adjustable preload system. In its place is a more traditional, less torque-sensitive radial bearing with a spacer system...Overall, the company found this style of interface to be more user friendly and less prone to creaking compared to the previous pivot hardware.'

Hallelujah! I've been singing this song for 3 years and figured it was just falling on deaf ears!!!
  • + 18
 So basically it is what any enduro bike should be, a bike to ride hard downhill and that can climb. Here we used to put double rings on our DH bikes to achieve that 15 years ago. Never understood why so called enduro bikes weren't like that. I mean who wants to ride anything else than DH tracks ? Enduro is just a way to do so when the Park/Race isn't there yet.

Oh and what's that BS about slack HA not climbing well ? I'm running 63.5° on my Meta v4 and that thing never climbed so well than since I tweaked my geometrie.
  • + 5
 Wait ,how did you get your HA so low on the meta?
  • + 18
 @Melchorhedman: mine was initially sold with the 350r in 160mm which is giving roughly 66°. That has been replaced with a Mattoc pro 160mm no gain there. Then slapped a Superstar -2° headset which bring me to 64°, lower front end as well. Then offset bushings bring to 63.5° and lower the BB to balance the lower front. Since i've done that the Meta v4 is finally dping what I want from a enduro bike.
  • + 15
 @Balgaroth: Damn. You're not messing about.
  • + 1
 @Balgaroth: any corners where you ride? haha! that must be like a truck in the tight stuff?
  • + 2
 @lifted-d: plenty of them ! Nose turns are a good help when really tight, other than that Saul goodman Wink Coming from my Suprem v4 anything less feels rubbish so modified my Meta to match the geo, best 100€ spent on a bike.
  • + 21
 Ordered. May be the last aggressive bike I can ride at my venerable age. Let's go out in style.
  • + 19
 Definitely doesn't look like a Session....... However 'Looks like a mid naughties Commencal' is a fair shout
  • + 6
 Almost looks like an old Mongoose...
  • + 3
 You could say it looks a little like the Trek Session 10 from a few years back.
  • + 1
 it's def naughty.
  • + 2
 You don't see that it's basically a mini V10?
  • + 15
 Bike looks awesome on paper and in the review. Cool that after 5 years Santa Cruz finally made a bike that does not look like most of their other bikes, I honestly had to ask people: is it a Bronson or 5010? Bronson or Nomad? Cool with variety, always!

As to carbon rim cracking... well it is pretty much always a user error. But I would like ENVE to take that sentence: "if carbon rim gets broken it means we should worry more about how did the crash go for the rider" write it on piece of paper and eat it. You may take a sip of drink afterwards, even a beer, as long as you drink it from aluminium cup
  • + 4
 I love the way its always 'I bet an alloy rim would also have been damaged" as if this somehow equates to the fact that the rim actually "cracked". I have been riding a Flow rim for 3 years and cased numerous jumps and drops with the worst damage being some minor dings.
  • + 4
 Yeah, it's funny, on Vital 2017 review, almost all in-house branded carbon rims cracked, like 3 on 20 bike tested, including bikes with aluminium rims...
  • + 3
 @headshot: i know a Dude who's been the third fastest guy in Sweden and he rode two seasons on DT EX500 including Swedish DH Cups, few weekends in Hafjell and a road trip to Alps. He did a similar feat on DT EX471. Few slight dings and one truing per year. All on a DH bike off course and he isn't messing around.
  • + 2
 Just wait until they update the Bronson and 5010 with the V10 style linkage!
  • + 3
 Correction, over 18 bikes only 2 bikes had cracked carbon rims on 2017 vital's test session... The 2 only bikes with carbon rims...

Giant Trance 0 2017: cracked
www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Giant/TRANCE-ADVANCED-0,18070#product-reviews/2644/expand

Intense Recluse Elite 2017: cracked
www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Intense/Recluse-Elite,18073#product-reviews/2669/expand
  • + 18
 Freeride? Or freeduro? Or down-duro? Need to know.
  • + 9
 "...at Santa Cruz, the name is simply Spindrift!"

Whoops, so easy to mix up these copy-paste descriptions...????


In all seriousness though, I'm loving this "new" resurgence in long travel baby-DH-enduro things.
  • + 2
 @danob: Back in 2012 we'd call these "mini dh bikes." Who remembers the transition tr250?
  • + 9
 My N3 is too much bike for about 95% of the trail I ride it on and the N4 would be too much bike for about 99%. I could somehow justify buying the N3 but I don't think I can on the N4.
  • + 1
 "Adventure-duro " Wink
  • + 3
 @jasdo: So if you wanted to stay with SC, that sounds like a Bronson would be the call, no?
  • + 1
 @jasdo: how does that work? An extra 5mm travel and suddenly it's unrideable? If anything this new version's linkage should be more poppy than the old one. It's a bit longer, but that's just a frame size label.
  • + 1
 Hey more of a statement about my local trails and my progression as a rider. Longer, slacker, more travel, more capable will take too much of the thrills from where I ride. Yep, the Bronson or Hightower make more sense for me. I'm definitely an SC guy, had a Blur XC and an N2, and my wife has a first gen Bronson. Love the Bronson but I'd probably go Hightower.
  • + 1
 @g-42: , Agree.
  • + 11
 So wanted to love this and replace my N3 frame as soon as it was announced! I knew the spec a few weeks ago and I was even prepared to get a new rear wheel with boost and a new 170-180mm fork to help me make the move, but not so sure now, the V10 kinematics will be amazing, but I can ride my N3 all day anywhere and I'm now not too sure this will be as easy to live with day to day - Time for a test ride......... :-)
  • + 4
 I think for you and what you just said, the new long travel 29er will be the way forward.
  • + 1
 @jaame: Good shout! I've been thinking about the high tower for a while, so when they bring out the new version it may be the better option for what I want. Must say I have loved the 29ers that I have had previously, so something long travel with good geometry will rock, especially from Santa Cruz!
  • + 5
 I sold my Nomad3 and am awaiting this new 29er launch.. Giddy up!
  • + 2
 @samoooli: brave man! I bet You will like it though, 29ers rock!
  • + 0
 @rjwspeedjunkie:

I got an N3 last year... it was a toss up between that and the Mega 290. I still wonder what that 29er would be like...
  • + 1
 @jaame: The Mega would have been fun, I've had the 650b version and it was a blast, but it wasn't in the same league as the Nomad, so I think you made the right decision. Granted a 29er would have been a different beast, but there is still a fair difference between the weight, build and ride characteristics on a Nukeproof vs a Santa Cruz carbon frame. If you were talking a HighTower or Wreckoning though, it would be a different story!
  • + 12
 Why not put more adjustment in the high/low setting. Slack or super slack if its for going downhill primarily. .4 degrees headangle change is meh
  • + 2
 Is it because flipping the "chip" is essentially lowering the BB at the suspension linkage, and you'd have to lower the BB significantly to get a big change to the HA? I'm asking, I'm not super familiar with how SC or others implement their high/low settings, but I would assume short of swapping headsets, Pivot Switchblade uses that(?), it would be pretty hard to get a significant HA change from the current crop of flip chips.
  • + 11
 So half the comments here say that it's ugly without giving any reasoning for it. Go back to your Polygons people, bike looks great and I'm sure performes the same.
  • + 6
 Looks like the most capable Nomad yet. These armchair athletes can polish their bikes with a diaper for all I care. We'll be out shredding meantime.
  • + 1
 @danny611: hmmmm...guess it would depend if it's dirty or not. But come to think of it you might be on to something. If a diaper is none abrasive on a baby's bum then it would be good on my carbon frame.
Btw the bike is still ugly.
  • + 1
 Do you need reasoning to find something ugly? Just look at it and that's it.
  • + 8
 This is one of the better PB reviews I've read in a while. They covered the bases, but also acknowledged that it's not a bike for everyone. I read a few other reviews elsewhere that made the bike sound like it could be everything to everyone (aside from XC/trail climbers), which we all know a 170mm bike won't be.
  • + 5
 Tbh, I think Vital's review has some more depth in the suspension analysis.
  • + 2
 With such a linear linkage you'd have a lot of flexibility in shock tuning this bike for different ride feel. With more XC tires and pumped up shocks you probably wouldn't lose too much vs. a typical trail bike. The trail bikes are all getting slacker anyway, it's not a massive difference anymore. But this bike goes to 11.

I can't logically justify a bike like this, nor do I have skills or the youthful invincibility to push its limits... but it would still be fun to own. The most awesome and memorable trails are the ones where at least 160mm is enjoyable, even if you don't ride them often. This 170mm bike is the same weight and geo as a 160mm bike (or 153mm in the HD4) anyway.
  • + 12
 And we have now gone full circle. It's a freeride bike.
  • + 9
 If you want a bike that falls into the nomad v4 ballpark but minus the ugly looks and minus the santa prices, check out the propain spindrift!
  • + 11
 Even more interesting is the C build option with GX Eagle listed
  • + 3
 Official announcement is coming in like a week..... Sadly OEM only for 2018
  • + 2
 Also interesting is SC went all in with Rockshox/SRAM with the Nomad. Zero Fox and/or Shimano options.
  • + 2
 @TheFunkyMonkey: "America First" seems to kick in.
Next step: Frames from the US and A. Watch out...
  • + 3
 @TheFunkyMonkey: The C XE build is a Shimano XT drivetrain , but ya other than that one, all SRAM. Not super surprising as they've been leaning more and more SRAM recently, especially with the high end builds.
  • + 1
 @squarewheel: I doubt it. Given that SC is now a dutch company I cant see them caring about the USA thing except for BS marketing reasons
  • + 7
 I love it when the first thing the product designer says is that it's meant for riding up to trails that you can't shuttle... and then they put a protector on the downtube to protect it while shuttling.
  • + 10
 This design is like marmite...and i love it Smile
  • + 10
 The affordable Eagle has landed.
  • + 9
 Never thought I could fall in love with a bike so quickly... Talked to my dealer already, going to order one tomorrow
  • + 34
 So you talked to your dealer, got high, then ordered one while tripping. Good work.
  • + 7
 I am more interested in the new carbon wheels with lifetime warranty Big Grin
The bike seems to be quite nice, but, if you already own a downhiller, I would prefer the Bronson Wink
  • + 6
 A super-capable 170mm full suspension that is so clean looking it almost seems like a hardtail = a beautiful bike. I love it! Really want to see how it rides compared to my current version 3.
  • + 6
 I bumped into Jack Russell on a ride and was keen for him to answer a few questions regarding this bike, he chewed my front tyre, dumped a shit and ran off down the trail. Rude.
  • + 5
 You guys can say whatever you like about the looks, carbon vs aluminum rims etc. (I'm an aluminum rim guy btw) but... the fact remains: This bike is a beast! The suspension kinematics of the V-10 are arguably some of the best ever conceived for aggressive gnar pounding DH style riding. The number of podiums on the WC circuit proves it. This bike is simply one gnar gobbling beast of a bike. I won't say sexy beast because that's all in the eye of the beholder. But an indisputably capable beast.
  • + 4
 "Looks different. It must suck. Even though it looks technically similar to a few older designs from this company. Shit's expensive. Everything was better before. Tired of brands forcing their so-called improvements on us. 26 is still great."
  • + 7
 Back to back test with Pivot Firebird, please. I know PB and dirt are test riding Pivot bikes as well at the moment. Smile
  • + 4
 Throw in a Capra and Delirium for a four way shootout.
  • + 4
 @carym: Five way with a Slayer
  • + 1
 @carym: Good shout
  • + 8
 looks like a Commencal Supreme V2, just saying Big Grin
  • + 7
 I for one love the new look.
  • + 1
 I for two love the look.
  • + 3
 For some reason, it seems like a fair size of the riding public likes to hate on SC (colors, aesthetics, price, ego). Whether the haters are inspired by annoyance, envy, poor taste in colors Wink or the high price, they are FULL of themselves. Its a market, don't like it ~ don't buy it. I have been a long time Santa Cruz fan and love my bike. I think they have great taste in colors and style. I don't understand, especially since preference in style is subjective. "Its a great bike, but fugly..." (Even more so, its not like that mastodon bike free-ride/xc bike (was it cube?) that was reviewed recently).

I feel like its similar why people hate on the the patriots, manchester united etc. They are too good, too pricey and people want to see the underdog roar.
  • + 3
 After owning and loving a N1 (polished), N2 (carbon green) and a N3 (stealth black) this is no longer a Nomad to me. They should have modernized the N3's geo and sizing then made this a VP Free because that's what it is. No-Mad!
  • + 3
 VPP has finally jumped the shark. No one wants the regressive to progressive leverage ratio anymore. And for SC to dial that out they have to design the frame to look ridiculous. Do bike manufacturers know we hate designs that vomit dirt onto the shock and pivots?! It makes it so hard to keep the bike running smoothly
  • + 4
 You can jump sharks on this bike?! Woah! Take my money!
  • + 1
 Slack and Longer ,well Mondraker do have this geo, for a quiet 3years ago, Is SC have no more idea of developing their own? For me my old Nomad looks better than this one.
  • + 6
 Looks like you could fit a couple bottles if you wanted to
  • + 5
 Funny how that is still something people look for on a mini-DH bike designed mostly for shuttle days Wink Will the new V10 fit a bottle too, you know, for drinking on the chairlift...
  • + 2
 @SonofBovril: if I had chairlift access, it would be fitted with a beer for sure!
  • + 1
 @SonofBovril: SC literally said that this is not a bike designed for shuttle days. Lol/
  • + 2
 I've got a MK3 Nomad and it looks far far better.

Why are SC only offering a shit brown color and a rubbish blue with shit brown decals?

And for anyone thats interested, in comparison to the 2016 model in XL, the new one is;
+20mm reach
+3mm stack
+25mm wheelbase
- 15mm seat tube
- 20mm stand over
Samee BB height and head angle

Hardly ground breaking.
  • + 1
 I think I will keep my N3. With an 11-6 shock on it.. I haven't found ANYTHING that it couldn't really handle. Anything more and I was reaching from by DH/DC bike anyway. I give them props for trying... I think it got uglier and the main reason is trying to accommodate a stupid water bottle. Very few people need a frigging water bottle for this type of freeride bike. Bring a pack, set it down and session for a bit on some big stuff... pick pack back up.. It's not that difficult. Now they end up with this very angular and awkward looking design. It may start to grow on me but probably not since the N3 was about as perfect aesthetically as they came. I wish the N3 had slightly shorter chain stays though. Also, how is the rear end of the N4 as stiff as the N3? It only has one side triangulating the rear triangles...
  • + 2
 " this is about as close as you can get to a pedal-able downhill bike", no it isn't, a Nicolai Geometron is. Plus what's with the 64.6 degree head angle? I mean is that a perfect figure someone chose through months of testing or did they just cock up the manufacturing process and it came out at that random figure?
  • + 21
 despite the Geometron head angle covfefe
  • + 0
 @MmmBones: my Geometron is 62.5 degrees. Not sure what your point is? I do not mean the new Nomad is slack, I mean why 64.6 and not say 64.5 or 64 etc?
  • + 5
 @duir: Who can figure out the meaning? Enjoy!!
  • + 2
 Marking told them that was the head angle most likely to sell bikes.
  • + 6
 Fugliest SC bike for years. There, I said it.
  • + 2
 A few things that come to mind:

(disclaimer, I own a Santa Cruz HighTower and a Pivot Firebird)

Color way (both of them) are not attractive at all
Even though there is a "fender" covering the rear shock, the stanchion looks very vulnerable to scratching - this along with how the lower linkage on SC bikes have a tendency to grit up / squeak could mean a lot of attention will be needed on the entire rear suspension (just a thought, zero proof of that)
They had a year to out maneuver Pivot's Firebird - I don't think they achieved that with this bike, and the Firebird looks better hands down.
I suppose this may be a good bike for current V3 nomad owners who feel they need more reach and a bit more travel, but those that aren't loyal to the SC brand have plenty of other choices.
  • + 5
 With Jack Russell penning the design, the Nomad must be a real terrier on the trails.
  • + 3
 So this bike was essentially made for .05% of mountain bikers?

Gotta love Santa Cruz for doing what they want, market be damned.

I'd LOVE to demo it, but probably couldn't ever rationalize buying it.
  • + 2
 Although this bike probably rips on the kinda trails i live for, you still need to get to them and that usually means lots of steep climbing, i was eagerly anticipating the release of this bike but i think i shall be looking elsewhere now,and i think a lot of people will be thinking the same, no longer nomad by nature just by name. Sick bike nonetheless just a bit one trick!
  • + 1
 How is it any worse than old Nomad? It's virtually the same apart from the linkage improvement.
  • + 2
 or maybe ive changed my mind ,I rather like it now.
  • + 6
 Exactly the same frame like juliana in previous report?
  • + 5
 Juliana are no longer any different. Just different decals and colours
  • + 1
 @lukachadwick: They never were any different.
  • + 2
 Could be cool. I hate the soon to be covered in mud shock. And 4400 for a base build. I could buy a YT Capra or another direct sales carbon enduro rig with specs 2-3 levels up for the same price as the NX/Yari Santa Cruz with a minimal loss in descending quality. But I love the warranty on the bike.
  • + 3
 This is always going to be true of direct to consumer bikes...
  • + 1
 The old carbon vs aluminium rims argument, took my N3 the the Megavalanche with Enve's on it and they were perfect and true throughout the whole week! Personally I have bust aluminium rims but never Carbon! Thats not to say it doesn't happen but I'm more at ease with aluminium on my Hightower purely down to cost, £40 a rim against £800 is a no brainer! Oh to be loaded or sponsored and not care lol
  • + 3
 Intense makes the tracer essentially the same as the Nomad and discontinues the UZZI, then Santa Cruz makes the Nomad similar to an UZZI. WTF
  • + 1
 The points above about SC previous innovations are telling. Hiding ever so close to the edge in all of this is the PON group.

That's not to say that there may have been direct influence throughout the design phase of the nomad on the part of PON. Yet, in looking at the tragectory of other brands under PON (cervelo, etc.) this "new, but far less" upgrade for SC seems to the norm.
  • + 1
 The builds are either an indication of how much Shimano has fallen or of how much of a deal SRAM gave them for the full package.

On paper the wheels look good, but feels like buying a Trek or a Specialized with house brand parts all over it. Also, I might be in the minority, but I have had less than stellar customer service with Santa Cruz so I'm very skeptical of the 24 hour turn around.

Two question:

Is VPP with the shock driven off the upper link a dead end?

If the V10 is 29 now, is 27.5 a dead end?

Glad there aren't any new axel standards at least!
  • - 3
 Nothing wrong with house brand parts. Bontrager and roval make great pieces of equipment that many people are happy to buy aftermarket
  • + 1
 All of these are obviously guesses, but here are my answers:

Is VPP with the shock driven off the upper link a dead end? No, they'll continue using it for all of their "shorter travel" bikes

If the V10 is 29 now, is 27.5 a dead end? No, they will likely sell the V10 in both 27.5 and 29, Along with a bunch of their other bikes. Will 27.5 die eventually? Who knows.

Glad there aren't any new axel standards at least! Ya, but boost is new to the Nomad.
  • + 1
 @rrsport: no doubt. SC now is part of Pon Holdings, so they're part of a purchasing pool on par with Trek or Spec. House brand parts, if done right, can be awesome.
  • + 1
 I've had two great experiences with Santa Cruz warranty. One time was a crash replacement for a Heckler, this was years ago like 2007, and more recently a full warranty frame replacement on a 5010cc v1 where I got the v2 upgrade.
  • + 1
 Wow, how to go from one of the best selling frames they make to one of the worst. That thing looks vile. This bike is almost redundant with the Hightower LT being the riders choice for racing. I predict this will go the way of Driver8. Hell, it's almost as ugly.
  • - 4
flag mikeep (Jun 1, 2017 at 1:26) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah, doubt we'll see this at any EWS races. It seams like a pointless bike to me.
  • + 15
 @mikeep: did you guys even read the article?
  • + 6
 Bla Bla, I prefer a bike that looks a certain way to one that works better, bla bla....
  • - 1
 @Racer951: Nah, I prefer a bike that looks nice and rides well, rather than dropping 10g's on something that looks like my cat sh*t out.
  • + 4
 @HobNob: Doesnt look like the nomad has ever been the bike for you in that case, when it was a looker its suspension was suspect and sizing all over the shop, now its suspension has been corrected and sizing is on the ball it looks like crap.

I dont disagree entirely either, I dont think its that ugly but if you do, I probably wouldnt want it either.
  • + 2
 @mikeep: yep. because that's what you're doing every week, racing EWS, not dicking about on a bike going DH...
  • + 1
 @Racer951: You're right - the sizing was whack on the last one for me & the suspension was awkward to get right.

I went to a Reign from my old Nomad - much better (for me).

And it didn't look like sh*t!
  • + 3
 @HobNob: YOUR CAT SHITS BIKES OUT? :O
  • + 3
 I liked my Driver 8. You hurt my feelings.
  • + 2
 It's too bad SC don't put more effort into their part spec at a decent price. At ~$4500 for a bike with a yari,really? I bought a Capra not only for the frame but also for a great spec
  • + 6
 Looks like Trump
  • + 4
 so 30yo supermodels are attracted to it? I'll take two
  • + 1
 @MmmBones: 40 year old 'ex-super models' that are washed up and wrinkly ARE ATTRACTED TO THE MONEY.

They want nothing to do with the man.

And I'm sure you'll take two of those!
  • + 1
 Not sure if this makes me want to barf, laugh or ride one, my stomach is churning in those colors, is 2018 going to the year of ugly colour ways! Ibis, SC! Not doing it for me so far!! Once only the realm of boutique bikes, like Turner when they made bikes still, SC Ventanas etc, lest Trek offers a custom paint program instead of these colors meh! Still I'd test one if they gave me one to try, if I really had too, haha. Bike sounds good on paper! 27.5" is so 2014..
  • + 1
 Took Joe Graney how many years to take my advice about the stupid saggy but leverage curve of the VPP bikes! Jeez, ten years later, how many crappy bikes sold under the Santa Cruz banner? Jeesus christ people. You bought a lot of crappy bikes. I almost feel sorry for ya. Well, in another ten years, you might actually get something that passes for modern technology. But stupid kids get stupid parents to buy stupid bikes for them, so the idiotic industry continues.
  • + 1
 A full kinematic analysis of the Nomad 4 can be found at
mrblackmorescorner.blogspot.com.au/2017/07/santa-cruz-nomad-4-vs-ibis-mojo-hd4-vs.html
and it looks to be an improved bike in all areas. Significantly, the revised leverage ratio curve looks to be a big improvement on the previous Nomad and the recast LR curve profile is wholly due to the relocation of the shock absorber. Things could even have been better if a 65mm stroke shock had been specced in preference to the 60mm stroke shock found on the bike.
  • + 1
 If you demand a high performance reliable bike, I'm not sure aesthetics needs to be on top of your priority list. Also, I don't think its ugly. I'll take a 6 with a good work ethic and no gag reflex over a 10 that's high maitenance with an attitude problem.
  • + 4
 Think I'll stick with my V3 Nomad. Never saw anything wrong with it and the V4 seems unnecessary.
  • + 3
 What exactly don't the haters like about the bike's looks. I'm sure Jack Russell, SCs Industrial Designer would love to hear your feedback.
  • + 1
 I like how this new release doesn't make me feel like I made the wrong move buying a end-of-run clearance Nomad 3. Them clearly stating they went a different route with the N4 makes me think the N3 better suits the riding I do anyways. Thanks Santa Cruz.
  • + 2
 props to SC for making a bike that doesn't fall in middlegrounds. Before you could by a N3 when what you needed was a Bronson, this will clarify the choice.
  • + 0
 This is what I have been waiting for....it a cross breed of the V-10 and the Bronson. What a waste of time. Last year Nomad is the was the king. I"m sticking with my Capra and my Enduro....Sorry SC but you drop the ball this year,
  • + 4
 The real question is can you run a dual crown on it Pimp @theminsta
  • + 3
 First thought: ugly.
Second thought: not that ugly.
Third thought: I want it but the bike is gnarlier than me.
  • + 3
 It's meat to ride downhill where you can't shuttle, and it includes a shuttle guard. Hmm
  • + 1
 Trying to think of the rider that would buy this? Enduro racer that needs a sled for non-pedal-intensive rough courses? What would make someone buy this over a Specialized Enduro, Trek Slash or Pivot Firebird?
  • + 2
 Man ENVE can't be happy with Santa Cruz making carbon rims now. Those blinged out colour matched Bukes had to account for a good part of ENVE's sales
  • + 1
 I finally realized what it reminded me of. Initially I thought it was the Morewood Mukulu but it's the Turner DHR.

rbikes.com/merchant/482/images/zoom/2013_DHR_Pro_Orange_1920-800.jpg
  • + 1
 Was kinda hoping it would follow suit with the V10 and offer a 29-er version but if SC is making a longer travel Hightower then this bike makes total sense in their lineup. It's like a reboot of the VP Free.
  • + 1
 Does this have a 34.9 seat tube or is it still 31.6? Any idea if the new Hightower will be? As seat tubes get shorter and droppers get longer it only makes sense to go to a bigger inner diameter.
  • + 2
 ooh, anyone notice that one of the build kits on SC's website includes GX Eagle! I knew it would trickle but def happy to see 1x12 in a more affordable package!
  • + 1
 You can check the kinematics of the new Nomad in my blog. I hope you like it!

mrblackmorescorner.blogspot.com.es/2017/07/santa-cruz-nomad-4-vs-ibis-mojo-hd4-vs.html
  • + 1
 Amazing looking bike. $8300.00 $700.00 more i can a new purchase a KTM free ride. Bike prices are stupid. Only one group of people that can afford this price range.
  • + 1
 As a big guy, I'm just happy to see that SC is finally making bikes with decent Reach. We can probably thank Greg Minaar for that.
  • + 1
 The designer throws out a term like "Adventure-Duro," and no one says a word? Damn bike industry always trying to shove new marketing down our throats...
  • + 2
 My prediction for every 2018 production trail bike. __________ is now longer and slacker than ever.
  • + 1
 Downtube angle looke like a capra. If you want to go steep looooong and fast get a mondraker dune xr carbon! Better switch from my nomad v3. Wwwooooop!
  • + 1
 m.pinkbike.com/photo/14789041

haha...looks a little like these old scribbles from 2010......

Nice to see something in a similar direction......
  • + 1
 It doesn't look that bad but they should have called it the new Bullit and left the Nomad alone. Why mess with one of the most popular bikes of recent times?
  • - 1
 Not sure what is revolutionary about this bike as it seems it has just caught up to the YT Jeffsey and Pivot Firebird. All are freeride bikes, just with 6-10 years of development resulting in having lost 5-8 pounds, with slacker head angles, lower bittom brackets and steeper seat tubes compared to older bikes like the Norco Shore and Santa Cruz VPP Free.
  • + 2
 Wow, suprised by the down votes. Did I say something that wasn't true?
  • + 2
 @carym: Nope, square on the nail. Welcome to Pinkbike, the site for people who know nothing about actual bikes. And, god sakes, don't tell the truth about how crappy a $10k bike is, because that's the last thing a 12 year old wants to hear. They can't even comprehend 'leverage curve' anyway.
  • + 0
 @carym: evolution over time is always in effect. the yt or pivot are nice bikes but hardly innovative, only another step on the evolutionary chain. the original outland VPP was revolutionary. as was the horst link that it ousted when it was first developed. Indexed shifting was revolutionary too, disc brakes ditto.
yt or pivot, yawn. nice bikes all the same
  • + 2
 have they heard of the giant reign? i'd buy one of those again way before this.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer did Santa Cruz really warranty the wheel even though it was damaged by user error? That's really cool if they did.
  • + 2
 I don't think SC could have picked worse colors!!! (well, not as bad as Intense, but still bad...)
  • + 2
 The circle has closed , the enduro evolution ends where the freeride evolution beggan: with a 170mm single crown bike
  • + 2
 Shhh, don't tell, all the young kids think it is new.
  • + 2
 Can't wait to see one with a triple crown. Someone put a boxxer on that thing please.
  • + 2
 I agree.
  • + 1
 That's the equivalent of putting a bag over her head. Yeah, she's that ugly. But it gets the job done, so out with the paper! Do you need a hole to breath through, mate?
  • + 3
 $13,349 for the top end model. LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG
  • + 1
 Who owns Santa Cruz ?crazy people ,looks almost identical to the commencal of the athertons ,they just lost it ,and the brand a little too,sad
  • + 3
 This is more like the re-incarnation of the Driver 8!
  • + 2
 Where are the complaints about the price????? Everyone loved ripping rocky mountain, trek and others apart!
  • + 4
 Oh dear
  • + 1
 Nice to see they have gone back to sensible seat tube angle (actual)
First sanata cruz since the last nomad which will suit taller riders or those with long legs
  • + 3
 Cedric seems happy about it! Wink

youtu.be/1TZOyCCLRkg
  • - 1
 Awesome bike i imagine, i look forward to dentists in their mid 40's exploiting the stability of such a bike whilst wobbling down their local flow trails and holding up us less ''enduro'' plebs whilst we wrestle with our malnourished ''trail'' bikes.
  • + 3
 Well, looks like a better ride with a less better look.
  • + 2
 Awesome, that means the current model price will plummet and I can finally afford one
  • + 4
 fugly
  • + 3
 Adventure-duro? Got to get rid of my Downduro immediately!!!
  • + 1
 *Enventuro
  • + 1
 That's an ugly bike. Like a real ugly bike . so ugly didn't bother to read the article yet . at least access to the water bottle is easier.
  • + 3
 Looks like a session....10
  • + 0
 Looking at this 4.0 version, geo, specs and looks...

They went too far, maybe"ahead of his time", but i will not worship/ buy as the previous frames
  • + 1
 i think its ugly. looks like an commencal supreme from 2010 and that brown-sand colour is even worst
  • + 1
 The name "Nomad" doesnt really apply anymore. The Bronson is the new enduro bike obviously.
  • + 1
 the coors banquet yellow is a pretty gross color on that bike. honestly the Juliana bikes have a better color scheme
  • + 1
 I don´t like the new look compared to the N3. But the performance should be more important..
  • + 1
 Surprised they went with more of a Reserved look on their wheels compared to the flashy ENVE's
  • + 2
 Honestly Knolly already have a mini DH that pedals well and rips descents
  • + 1
 Not the most flamboyant SC I've ever seen. I'm sure it will ride just fine though.
  • + 1
 This and the Ibis HD4 make two enduro bikes with sub 65 degree head angles. How long till we reach geometron numbers?
  • + 0
 @pinkbikeaudience One short question. Does anybody kniws anything about SRAM GX Eale, since Nomad C in the spec S comes with one
  • + 1
 Release is in a week I read. Only oem for 2018 though
  • + 1
 @rrsport: Shame, as it should be a good competitor against current aftermarket 11 speed cassets, tho weird sram didn't go with X1, looks like they have no intentions of keeping it for Eagle
  • + 2
 I like pretty bikes, I'm relived I placed an order on a Firebird now!
  • + 1
 Current Nomad owner, who lies the brand, but did someone's pencil slip when designing this?

'Voila, she will do'
  • + 1
 For once I won't complain about no FD mount as this is not a bike for climbing the nasty.
  • + 1
 Dose this mean they are going to change the linkage on their other bikes as well??
  • + 1
 Best looking SC bike I've ever seen. Coil and air shock compatibility yes please.
  • + 2
 Why you want it to look good? Is more like a Baja truck than a ferrari
  • + 3
 Beautiful!
  • + 1
 ford / chev / dodge.
personal pref, progression is good.

still waiting on my SC super 8 to make a comeback
  • + 2
 freeride bike with pedal-ability? glad i still have my 07 uzzi
  • + 2
 it just looks so bad, so bad its compering with the polygon.
  • + 1
 It looks like the old Commencal DH bike... I bet it descends great, but for sure it doesn't look nice Smile
  • + 1
 I absolutely love the new lock and more over the first reviews are all convincing !!!
  • + 1
 The new look of course, sry for that
  • + 2
 #iwillwaitforthenewgiantreignthanks
  • - 1
 Giant is trash
  • + 1
 I would love to slap on the v10 build kit and use this as a park bike. Looks super fun!
  • + 1
 I'm disappointed they didn't develop a new hub standard for it, but whatever.
  • + 3
 It's the carbon VP-Free!
  • + 2
 oh boy, here we go again...... dang it!
  • + 1
 It looks like an old rocky mountain dh bike. They fixed something that wasn't broken.....
  • + 2
 Straight up free ride commencal v2 style
  • + 1
 my word
  • + 1
 At the end, the shock location in the GT Force was an idea to follow, ehehe. Seems strange the first view... Let's see.
  • - 2
 Slacker and longer eh? 2017 bike had a 65 degree head angle same as this one. All they have done is shifted the weight around by making the rear shorter and the front longer as far as pure geo goes, so it's really no longer or slacker at all. As for the rest? Taking strength out of the swingarm can't be good and making it ugly can't be good either. Yuck.
  • + 3
 Wrong, look at the numbers!
  • + 1
 With a name like Nomad, it should have retained a better pedalling platform to.....go places.
  • + 1
 Don't care how it rides. A part of me buys a bike on aesthetics and this bike does not have any.
  • + 1
 "Got Down Sat On A Bench" I just bought the old version. Thanks for heads up Santa Cruz.
  • + 2
 Thanks to Santa Cruz my ACV is now the second ugliest bike on the Mtn.
  • + 1
 Such a nice bike Drool looking forward to the long term review as this could be my ticket to one bike that can do-it-all
  • + 1
 How much is a First born going out for theses days??
Loved every inch of it!
  • + 3
 2014 NomadC 26" forever!
  • + 1
 the old nomad definetly looks better, but I don't think this bike is ugly at all.. it's just the N3 was too pretty
  • + 1
 Is it less better at climbing than the current model? That's the big question for me.
  • + 3
 I have a jack russell
  • + 2
 The good thing is that the previous version will be cheap now!
  • + 1
 This was a scrapped prototype, you know they can do impressive marketing when they can sell polished turds!
  • + 2
 Looks great imho, but well everyone´s got different tastes.
  • + 2
 The new bro bike has been released.
  • + 1
 Dare I mention that Mr dailey has been stomping the competition all year on a 170mm travel bike?
  • + 1
 That new Nomad looks incredible. Funky shock layout, but you're getting a mini v10 with a bottle cage. And it pedals.
  • + 1
 YO! Santa Cruz, just make a 170mm travel 'mini' V10, and you'd sell heaps of them....
  • + 1
 Still prettier than anything the &$&!ing squids are riding.
  • + 1
 Like to read what DIRT has to say about it ,after they try it
  • - 3
 As a designer, I am surprised all of you opionists think this bike is ugly. Frame looks lighter and it has a simpler swing arm set up. Color isn't bad either. It's very jeep military. There is a lot of hate from people that I'm sure have questionable taste. Personally I want a carbon 26" version but I'm sure I'll eventually be on board with the 27.5
  • + 1
 You suck if you can't see how awful this bike looks. Just look at the angles of the tubes, they don't merge into one another, they are completely disjointed and fugly. It looks like a two year old scratch drawing of a biSICKle!
  • + 1
 @allballz: your name says it all. All balls no brains
  • + 1
 Great news for nomad owners. They posses the last beautiful nomad.
  • + 1
 the more you watch it, the more you like it.
  • + 1
 Mini downhill bike that pedals: get an uzzi....
  • + 1
 Morewood have been doing this design for years
  • + 1
 It's hideous. What a stupid bike. Santa Cruz, you guys fucked up.
  • + 1
 just begging for a 29" front wheel and dual crown with 26x2.8" rear
  • + 8
 You been in that bong shed for longer than usual?
  • + 6
 @Racer951: I am the bong shed
  • + 1
 Great bike for a reasonable price ????????
  • + 2
 I dont like it.
  • + 1
 Freeride is back! And now it gets you up the hill too!
  • + 1
 Where's the suspension cycle vid???
  • + 1
 What about a 29er Option ????
  • + 2
 New hightower LT will be coming soon I think
  • + 3
 Yup, 150mm hugetower will be out soon and will outsell this I think.
  • - 8
flag adinmtb (Jun 1, 2017 at 0:52) (Below Threshold)
 29=no thanks
  • + 1
 @adinmtb: It's more than a cult. 29ers are marginally faster, somewhat more efficient, and perceivably steadier. Nothing will beat the blazing fun of a 650B bike, but when every second counts I'll take the shame anyday.
  • + 6
 @siderealwall2 Yes 29 is fast, but 27.5 seems to be doing just fine in the EWS on race day.
  • + 1
 @NickB01: Different story in Qualifying for Lourdes. I'll take the Session 99er and V10-29 to the bank every dry race this season.
  • + 1
 @siderealwall2: agreed. for me 29ers are more than just marginally faster. long story short: put a 29 backwheel and shorter shock in my 29/275 bike -rode my hometrails ( where momentum is key) - 10 % faster without pushing 100% (even on dh trails). might just be me and the nature of my trails, but the times just blew me away.
  • + 1
 @mikeep: Jeeez Hugetower, how big is it gonna be?
  • + 1
 I dig it! Its got everything I always wished my nomad 3 had.
  • + 1
 490mm reach... now we're talking.
  • + 2
 Is this April 1st?
  • + 1
 i, for one, am not-mad at the new no-mad.
  • + 1
 Man, I'm reaaaally liking this! @beeboo what do you think?
  • + 1
 Omg no way! It's a mini V10 Big Grin I like the idea but the frame looks kind of funny. Give me some time and it will grow on me!!!
  • + 0
 Not a fan of the new design, where is the 29 though? it needs more travel then.
  • + 2
 Looks like Strega.
  • + 1
 Intended use: shredding the gnar
  • + 1
 and you show this one after my birthday ????????!!!!!!!
  • + 1
 So, how do I buy the frame only?
  • + 0
 Your first impression is almost always correct, this should have stayed scrapped!
  • + 1
 Nicely done Jack!! Does it manual by itself like all your other bikes? Wink
  • + 1
 Longer, slacker aaaand... uglier.
  • + 0
 Or this: "The New Santa Cruz Nomad is Longer, Slacker and Uglier Than Ever".
  • + 1
 Think I'll stick with my RM Slayer..
  • + 1
 Still shorter then my 29r ?
  • + 1
 I'll wait for the 210mm and 60 deg HA version
  • + 1
 Adventure-duro? Hell no! It's ALL MOUNTAIN!
  • + 1
 The New Santa Cruz Nomad is Longer and Uglier Than Ever
  • + 1
 yeah ugly ugly thumbs down sc
  • + 1
 Why did they have to change the headset standard, very annoying!
  • + 0
 Tan and Black? Haven't heard of the Black and Tans? More Ink and Gold will be sold in Ireland for sure!
  • + 2
 Looks like my old RM6!
  • + 2
 Yeah, when I first saw it I was instantly reminded of my old RM Slayer SXC
  • + 1
 Man that dessert tan just looks so nice!
  • + 1
 Not sexy like MK1 od mk2
  • + 1
 I like it.
  • + 1
 ButtAssUgly
  • + 1
 I like it.
  • + 0
 Someone who is not crazy. Nomad= No+mad.
  • + 0
 shits sexy idk what y'all are on
  • + 1
 Looks awesome!
  • + 1
 1.5L water bottle? mmmmk
  • + 1
 Got 1 one on order
  • + 0
 Have they just copied the old Specialized Enduro from 05/06.
  • + 0
 The New Santa Cruz Nomad is More Boring Than Ever – First Ride
  • + 0
 I guess I can keep my bike now. Sheesh that thing looks unfinished
  • + 1
 why is it so ugly
  • + 1
 Barf
  • + 1
 i2i length?
  • + 1
 Nice bike...
  • + 0
 Thumbs down...
  • + 0
 looks sooooooooo good
  • - 3
 Ugly
  • - 3
 Who cares about an Embargo hey SC? Oops Big Grin
  • - 2
 Ruined , think I'm gona through up
  • + 1
 through up where did you say?
  • + 1
 @Racer951: stupid smart phones !
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