Santa Cruz V-10 Carbon - Previewed

Nov 10, 2010
by Mike Levy  



Santa Cruz V-10 Carbon


Here it is, a bike that if given the chance, a lot of readers would gladly trade a kidney or loved one for without batting an eye. With its scheduled release date fast approaching in the coming new year we thought it was high time to swing a leg over this superbike of superbikes to find out exactly what makes it tick, and let me tell you, there is a whole lot more to talk about than Santa Cruz's use of carbon fiber to build their premier downhill bike. The new V-10.4 is not only more adjustable, letting you tweak both the travel and head angle, but also sports new larger pivot bearings and hardware, a 1.5
Here it is, a bike that if given the chance, a lot of readers would gladly trade a kidney or loved one for without batting an eye. With its scheduled release date fast approaching in the coming new year we thought it was high time to swing a leg over this superbike of superbikes to find out exactly what makes it tick, and let me tell you, there is a whole lot more to talk about than Santa Cruz's use of carbon fiber to build their premier downhill bike. The new V-10.4 is not only more adjustable, letting you tweak both the travel and head angle, but also sports new larger pivot bearings and hardware, a 1.5" headtube, and a longer stroke shock than what was used in the not so distant past. Total weight of our test bike? 35.6 lbs! Impressive considering that this is a stock build straight from Santa Cruz - some extra coin spent will have you in the mid 33's without getting too crazy. Keep reading to get your geek on.
The engineers at Santa Cruz knew that they could design and produce a lighter, faster, and stronger carbon version of their much loved V-10 downhill bike, but you have to wonder if they were 100% sure that today's riders are ready for such a thing. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that most of our minds were not open to the idea, and I would say that there are those out there who never will be, no matter how many stringent tests it passes or how reliable it is in the real world. As for myself, I say bollocks, this is the real deal. Not only is it impressively light, our carbon frame and Vivid Air shock weigh in at 8.6 lbs, but it's also said to be as strong and even stronger in some regards than its aluminum predecessor. A perfect example of this would be the headtube and downtube junction where the carbon material is nearly half an inch thick. This really highlights carbon's ability to be used sparingly where not much material is needed, but layered on thick or even in different layups in high stress areas. While the burly junction up front may not be able to be seen without looking at a cutaway, the frame's smaller than average diameter downtube is more obvious. While everyone seems to be going towards massive, but thin, tubes that can be susceptible to rock strikes, the engineers at Santa Cruz went the opposite direction. Not only does the smaller diameter present a smaller target for impacts, but thicker material has been used to resist any damage that could be caused by rocks being thrown up from the front wheel or in crashes.
The engineers at Santa Cruz knew that they could design and produce a lighter, faster, and stronger carbon version of their much loved V-10 downhill bike, but you have to wonder if they were 100% sure that today's riders are ready for such a thing. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that most of our minds were not open to the idea, and I would say that there are those out there who never will be, no matter how many stringent tests it passes or how reliable it is in the real world. As for myself, I say bollocks, this is the real deal. Not only is it impressively light, our carbon frame and Vivid Air shock weigh in at 8.6 lbs, but it's also said to be as strong and even stronger in some regards than its aluminum predecessor. A perfect example of this would be the headtube and downtube junction where the carbon material is nearly half an inch thick. This really highlights carbon's ability to be used sparingly where not much material is needed, but layered on thick or even in different layups in high stress areas. While the burly junction up front may not be able to be seen without looking at a cutaway, the frame's smaller than average diameter downtube is more obvious. While everyone seems to be going towards massive, but thin, tubes that can be susceptible to rock strikes, the engineers at Santa Cruz went the opposite direction. Not only does the smaller diameter present a smaller target for impacts, but thicker material has been used to resist any damage that could be caused by rocks being thrown up from the front wheel or in crashes.
The carbon frame is the big news, but this bit of detail is what should excite a lot of people as well. With its 10
The carbon frame is the big news, but this bit of detail is what should excite a lot of people as well. With its 10" of travel the previous iterations of the V10 may have been pigeonholed by some as simply being "too much bike", even if they hadn't ever ridden it in anger. The 2011 V-10.4 goes a long way to appealing to more riders by featuring a simple and easy to use adjustable travel system on the lower link that lets you reign in the travel out back to 8.5", which also lowers the bottom bracket and slackens the steering angle. All one needs to do is remove the shock bolt and flip the aluminum inserts, quick and easy. This should completely change the character of the bike and allow you to decided how much feedback from the terrain you are looking for and whether you want a more playful steed or a bike that stays low and fast. While this may necessitate a spring change on frames equipped with a coil shock, the Vivid Air bolted to our carbon '10 will require only an air pressure adjustment. Working with the travel adjust to let you have your cake and eat it as well is the bike's adjustable head angle via the included Cane Creek AngleSet headset. Depending on your rear wheel travel choice, you can settle on a head angle as slack as 63 degrees in the 8.5" travel mode and 66 degrees in the longer travel setting by using different cups. This nifty piece of hardware could well be the product of the year.
It isn't always about being as light as possible. Much hoopla has been made about the carbon frame's impressive weight, and rightfully so, but this has allowed the bike's designers to actually beef up other aspects of the bike without being penalized for it. For example, larger and therefore heavier pivot bearings have been utilized, but the benefit should be even better reliability. The bike also uses expanding collet pivot axles to keep everything tight, but also quiet, during the season. Hidden from view is the bike's ISCG05 chain guide tabs. Made from carbon, the tabs are incredibly beefy and the frame is now fully taco approved (tab mounted chain guides voided the aluminum frame's warranty).
It isn't always about being as light as possible. Much hoopla has been made about the carbon frame's impressive weight, and rightfully so, but this has allowed the bike's designers to actually beef up other aspects of the bike without being penalized for it. For example, larger and therefore heavier pivot bearings have been utilized, but the benefit should be even better reliability. The bike also uses expanding collet pivot axles to keep everything tight, but also quiet, during the season. Hidden from view is the bike's ISCG05 chain guide tabs. Made from carbon, the tabs are incredibly beefy and the frame is now fully taco approved (tab mounted chain guides voided the aluminum frame's warranty).
If you're going to test out one of the most advanced and anticipated downhill bikes ever made you should probably hang some of the best components possible off of it. Two complete bikes are available, both using the same frame, but differing in parts. Our test bike comes kitted out with the higher end parts, including a beautiful set of black Race Face Atlas cranks and DT wheelset that is built around their premium 440 hubs. The black machine is air sprung on both the front and rear, with the RockShox BoXXer World Cup fork complimenting the new RockShox Vivid Air shock. Keeping the chain in place is a proven e.13 guide.
If you're going to test out one of the most advanced and anticipated downhill bikes ever made you should probably hang some of the best components possible off of it. Two complete bikes are available, both using the same frame, but differing in parts. Our test bike comes kitted out with the higher end parts, including a beautiful set of black Race Face Atlas cranks and DT wheelset that is built around their premium 440 hubs. The black machine is air sprung on both the front and rear, with the RockShox BoXXer World Cup fork complimenting the new RockShox Vivid Air shock. Keeping the chain in place is a proven e.13 guide.

Specifications
Release Date 2011
Price $6972
Travel 8.5" /10"
Rear Shock RockShox Vivid Air
Fork RockShox Boxxer World Cup
Headset Cane Creek Angleset
Cassette Shimano HG 80, 11-28
Crankarms Race Face Atlas
Chainguide e.13
Bottom Bracket Race Face
Pedals n/a
Chain KMC X9 SL
Rear Derailleur SRAM XO short cage
Front Derailleur n/a
Shifter Pods SRAM XO right trigger
Handlebar Easton Havoc Lo 31.8mm
Stem Thomson
Grips Lizard Skin Peaty lock on
Brakes Avid Elixir CR Mag w/ 203mm front 185mm rear rotors
Wheelset DT FR FR600 rims laced to DT 440 hubs w/ DT 14 guage spokes, brass nipples (20mm front hub)
Hubs DT 440
Spokes DT
Rim DT FR FR600
Tires Maxxis Minion DHF dual ply 2.5 wire
Seat WTB Silverado SLT
Seatpost Thomson Elite


While they certainly could have made the rear end of the bike out of carbon, Santa Cruz didn't see the advantages of it at this point in time. This aluminum swingarm, the very same as you can find on the Driver 8, is not only as light as they thought a carbon version could be, but it's also easier to produce and keeps the price reasonable as well I'd imagine. Carbon used where it makes sense, up front, and not where it isn't needed, out back. I have to say that it is refreshing to see something not being done simply because they can, but because it isn't needed.
While they certainly could have made the rear end of the bike out of carbon, Santa Cruz didn't see the advantages of it at this point in time. This aluminum swingarm, the very same as you can find on the Driver 8, is not only as light as they thought a carbon version could be, but it's also easier to produce and keeps the price reasonable as well I'd imagine. Carbon used where it makes sense, up front, and not where it isn't needed, out back. I have to say that it is refreshing to see something not being done simply because they can, but because it isn't needed.

Looking for more information? Have a look at the great piece that we did with Santa Cruz engineer Josh Kissner that goes into more detail of the carbon frame. Check out the Santa Cruz website as well.


Lighter, stronger, more adjustable... all around better than the aluminum version? At this point in time it is hard to fault the new carbon bike. Hell, it's even essentially the same price as its metal relative was at $2999 USD for the frame. Stay tuned for the in depth test, but for now let the discussions begin below! I know you have an opinion on the new carbon downhill bike from Santa Cruz, so let's hear it!


229 Comments

  • 19 0
 Great write up and preview. Carbon definitely has been proven as a solid frame material this year on the world cup and at Rampage. 33 pounds? Holy moly! My trail bike is only a few pounds lighter than that
  • 9 1
 *jizm*
  • 11 1
 just done a bit of sex wee right there.

HOWEVER, my mate has got his STEEL framed brooklyn machine works down to about 37Lbs now as a full race bike... so when you think about it, is it worth that much for the weight drop? (obviously it is for the pimp factor!)
  • 4 1
 Yes, I think most of the weightsavings is in the build. Santa Cruz actually states the weight of the carbon frame to be only 0.18 lbs or about 80 grams lighter then the standard V10! Is this wrong? (10.1 lbs vs 9.92 lbs medium frame with shock)
  • 19 1
 I would like to say on behalf of the entire pinkbike community how disappointed we all are in that statement rideracelive. The old ones weren't the prettiest bikes, but that carbon frame just looks sooo much sleeker!
  • 5 0
 A lot of the weight savings come from the air suspension, no coil in the fork and shock saves over 2# alone.
  • 21 18
 To be honest I don't like the idea of carbon frames I just do think they will last a few years. But yes they did survive rampage and the world cup but all we could know is peaty is getting a new frame every race. Plus alumamin dents, carbons doesn't dent just cracks. Just my 2 cents
  • 8 2
 This is the future! Carbon can be stronger than steel and aluminum... And rides better!
  • 16 0
 Make any downhill course your bitch with this new V10
  • 6 0
 All I can do now is put little hints everywhere in hopes to get PB to start a contest for a full build, and then win that contest!
  • 8 0
 @brett, aluminum may dent, but it wont be long after untill the dent turns into a crack depending where it is.... and another thing, carbon does not have more strength then steel, it just has a better strength to weight ratio... a common misconception, which is why in the article there was almost a half inch of material around the head tube junction.
Althogh it sounds like im bashing this bike, im not... it sounds amazing, id ride it any day
  • 11 0
 this bike rolled in, and I, JIZZED IN MY PANTS!
  • 5 0
 Peat, Minnaar and Gracia were on the same frame all season. Cedric's race frame was the same one he rode at rampage.
  • 22 1
 Wow jamis than is so disturbing what you are writing! SC V10.4 make people around the world Jizz their pants. Watch out for it on the trails near you!

Recent news: Bob I am standing here in Kicking Pig bike park which witnessed a nearly tragic situation where several young man almost dehydrated themselves to death due to constant several minute lasting-pissing their pants. Rason for that remains uncertain but park authorities said it happened right after some guy came on the lift with a super sexy bicycle which is suspected to be the new Santa Cruz V10carbon. Henry Rogers from bike patrol told us that similar accident happened when a young boy crapped himself after spotting a new Devinci Wilson. Stool falling out his trousers contaminated the brake pads just before the steep rock section.
  • 7 0
 it is actually going to be cheeper to fly to the america, buy one and fly back than it is to buy in the uk.
  • 5 0
 @ Tejj - technically, carbon fibre is stronger than aluminum as it has a higher modulus of elasticity i.e. the material can withstand greater stress prior to yielding/failure. this is a material property independent of size or shape and is fact. In frame design, the material is also more easily manipulated so that material can be added where it's needed... like mentioned with the headtube. So, the material property (stronger) combined with its ease of manipulation combines to produce a 'stronger lighter' frame. As for denting vs. cracking.. yes, those failure modes are true for aluminum vs. carbon... but an impact that dents aluminum probably won't even phase the carbon, and an impact that cracks carbon will obliterate aluminum... theoretically.
  • 1 0
 OK. Can someone clarify please how much lighter this frame is from the aluminum frame? Is it really only 80 grams? Where are the titanium DH bikes?
  • 3 1
 Lets talk science, your theoretically is mostly true, but you missed one thing, that an impact to dent carbon is harder if the carbon is the same thickness as aluminum, but carbon is, as stated above, applied to areas that need it more and less in less stressing area of the frame. this saves weight and at places compromises impact. Lets all just hope you wont fall that hard with your $8,000 bike. But it does happen, and most riders will not even get close to what the engineers build these up for. If you break a carbon V10 it will be more from miss handling then from riding or from working on the bike with improper tools. Carbon is amazing and is the expensive bikes of the future. As for DH bikes being made out of Titanium, thats not a good idea as dh bikes as we all know are subjected to a lot of force from a lot of different impacts and as there expensive XC Titanium bikes it is a possibility. In my study of Titanium it is way to brittle to bend under multiple point of stress and seems to explode once it meets the max threshold of force for its density and composition. Carbon is stiffer but can me manipulated to give in places of importance so that the bike will last and not just fall apart. To stiff of bike will give you a bad ride and make the bikes life shorter parts will break faster and you frame will have a higher chance of cracking.
  • 2 0
 side note: None of this would be possible if NASA was not doing space research on new carbon materials and as the carbon itself becomes better so will bikes. Its great to see companies like Santa Cruz building carbon bike as the technology needed to test and find where and how to manipulate carbon on the frame and the construction of this is very difficult. Thanks to Santa cruz for being the first company to test bikes in the first place with computers and seeing the breaking point to build the best bike. Without such knowledge carbon would be possible. 80g lighter would sound right, but the ride will be more responsive and wight will be placed more for the overall ride of the bike. Also if you noticed the rear triangle is not carbon... That area has to much stress to make carbon affective. The best carbon bikes are all mountain, like the nomad and the ibis Mojo Dh witch i have seen ride Northstar a place that is know for destroying bikes. So Thank you Santa cruz for pushing the limits of bikes with new ideas sometimes even if they might fail you are always looking for the best ride! Look forward to see next years line up!
  • 1 0
 rode it at interbike, with the vivid air and would have to say i was disspointed. not in the bike itself but in my failure of setting up suspension to how i like it.
  • 1 1
 ill trade a kidney any day for this bike
  • 1 2
 I know im a skeptic but i had a carbon baseball bat and it snapped at the handle so easily it broke like wood, i just couldnt trust the material after that.
  • 2 1
 people forget that carbon isnt just about the weight. carbon is dope because A it can be slapped on where its needed, and taken away where its not. this gives designers SO MUCH MORE freedom in their designs. the second and more important thing, is that when its applied, the carbon is put on it a way that allows it to flex slightly in one direction, but not the other. in other words, the frame has natural flex up and down, but is stiff as hell left right. this makes for a smoother ride that is stronger and also, oh yeah LIGHTER
  • 5 0
 ridin down a trail and a v10 past me and i, JIZZED IN MY PANTS!
  • 5 0
 just be careful with not contaminating the brake pads!
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns your right! lol I should...I'm not expecting then some guy rides by on a V-10 carbon...XD
  • 1 0
 and that shock looks awesome too.
  • 1 0
 @Tejj Wood also has a better strength to weight ratio than steel. Do you suggest we start making bikes out of wood?
  • 2 0
 @Jamis, apparently this contraptors relaxing influence of V10 can be dangerous to the owner as well! Imagine some wee guy, that knows abit about bikes, read this article on PB and he is off for hiking with a girl he fancies, but they take the bikepark lift to just gain some altitude. You know, so the poor girl doesn't get too tired and she will be still in mood for a little kissy kissy in the bushes. They sit there on the lift, the guy spots some promising good looking bike riding towards them, takes girls binoculars (a must have on a hike!) looks through them and OH CRAP it's the V10 carbon! Then the wet thing happens and all the crap goes straight into riders face!

Take my advice everyone! you buy that bike and if this peeing your pants at sight is true: have some tears offs with you all the time! and the long visor!
  • 2 1
 What if it does break all frames do, and you get the carbon in a cut or something your guranteed cancer.
  • 2 0
 lol "because of NASA". NASA doesn't do shit. Defense companies are the ones who pioneer stuff. NASA just buys everything from everyone else. lol NASA.
  • 1 0
 "Carbon used where it makes sense, up front, and not where it isn't needed, out back. I have to say that it is refreshing to see something not being done simply because they can, but because it isn't needed." I'm going to keep this quote on hand, and I'll be sure to bring it up in two years when Santa Cruz introduces the new completely carbon all around V10 frame and says it's 200% better than the one with the aluminum swing-arm.
  • 1 0
 @seary: so what you are basicaly saying is that you don't want any development? in order for SC to be truthful and to "keep it real" they should stick to alu swingarm forever? you change your mind over time as you evolve with what you are doing, the most stupid thing you can do is to stick to something that doesn't make any sense anymore, cause there's plenty of better solutions newly discovered!

What is most terrible with such discussions is that if they take too long, people go so nerded into their beliefs pro and against any design that they loose any distance to the case. Then weirdest most primitive stupid arguments are being pulled out: must be good they use it in NASA, blaa wood also has good weight to strength ratio blaa FFS! Are you actualy reading what you just have written?!

Distance guys distance... and I say this just in case (cause you never know who's reading) I don't mean any measure! like the one between seatpost axis and head tube axis a.k.a top tube length...
  • 2 0
 V10 carbon has all benefits over alu version but the fact that they are uber expensive and some part of "the community" is psychologicaly not prepared to buy and ride a thing that was not thoroughly tested. But someone has to take it for the team and pull the trigger every now and then so that technology development happens! So we all get better performing products in time. What else can you discover with aluminium?!

Right now for me personally CF bikes are so expensive and offer so little advantage (yet still they offer it!) over an alu bike I have right now, that I just won't buy any of them! However while I could consider myself changing my old Nomad for CF Nomad (if i.e mine gets broken), I have no lust whatsoever to change for the new alu bike, because that's an even smaller gain. I might consider an used alu one though, just to save some money.
  • 14 0
 Can someone tell me, how much we can actually earn by selling a kidney??
  • 6 0
 You`ll earn quite a bit but just dont sell it in india...
  • 5 0
 30k+ blackmarket value
  • 1 0
 rly ??
  • 6 0
 i have a spare apendix! anyone interested? seriously now, this frame is amazing. i do ride the new DHR but i would get on one of these V 10s in no time!
  • 2 0
 I'll trade you my kidney AND my appendix for a rig like that and a decent dj bike. Any takers ?
  • 3 1
 One of my kidneys may be going on PB buy/sell soon, watch this space!
  • 5 0
 Yea dude! nice idea you gave me. I gonna do that for sure. if i can get 30K for selling a kidney, i will really do it. and buy a top end DH bike!
  • 4 0
 haha good luck with that ^^
  • 3 0
 vineet - there is a flaw in your plan. If you sell a kidney to buy a DH bike you won't be able to ride it - you may crash and rupture your one-and-only kidney.
  • 2 1
 Its okay, by then he`s gonna trade the bike for a dialysis machichine anyways...
  • 10 1
 Looks incredible! Will you guys be testing it with a coil shock as well?
  • 10 16
flag Rasterman (Nov 10, 2010 at 5:55) (Below Threshold)
 Wow really? I think its butt ugly. The front tri shape looks AL, which is fine, but the rear tri looks carbon, doesn't match at all, and they are diff colors making it even worse. The lines in the front of the frame are great, but once you get to the shock and mid section its terrible looking. I also think its sad they charge $7,000 for a bike and don't include Chris King or I9 hubs, if you're going to pay top dollar, at least provide top dollar parts.
  • 5 0
 Well one thing that should be mentioned (and probably is in the article) is that the new carbon v10 frame costs almost the same as the old v10 (give or take $150 or so). My guess is that Chris King doesn't produce the amount of hubs needed for all of these santa cruz frames (I know Industry9 doesnt, I waited almost 6 months for one of my wheelsets). They ARE providing you with top of the line dt swiss hubs (440's which are $400 for only the rear hub) who they clearly have ties with because they've always been included in their previous models as well. They are including top of the line gearing, the lightest brakes, and one of the lightest forks on the market. If you built one up with the same spec you'd be paying more (obviously why they provide a complete build option).
  • 1 0
 Ok, the looks, great design. other then that, I'm with Rasterman on this one. And the rear end looks duck taped from a distance, ugly. Please make it black and add some color when your on it.
  • 2 0
 i dont know what you guys are talking about, "front looks like aluminum, back looks like carbon". the front looks nothing like aluminum, look at those curves!! color isnt too interesting but its still a beautiful bike. the linkage and midsection is a little busy looking but thats because of all the technology they put into it. its not surprising that being able to switch from 8.5 to ten inches of travel would require a little more hardware. i think its a sick bike, well written article too. i think its great that bike companies are really putting some serious thought into carbon on downhill bikes
  • 2 0
 If you get it in white and gold it's a beauty
www.santacruzbicycles.com/v10_carbon/#builder.php
  • 6 0
 I love it. I love how all the arm chair engineers scoff at the idea of carbon. lol. To each their own. After having a V-10.3, I am very interested in this one!

So Mike...when can I borrow it? He he.
  • 3 0
 I'm just going to throw in my 2c on the carbon debate. I was speaking to an engineer about the carbon issue. And really I didn't understand a lot of what he was saying about the strength of carbon it got all a bit confusing, but his bottom line was, that the old carbon ' the break and toss" version is more related to the quality of the carbon used (weave or something), as opposed to the material itself. As technology advances, this will become more and more a thing of the past.

The thing that stood out more was the following. He was saying that we'll see a lot more manufacturers going across to carbon, and the price of carbon bikes will come down heavily. Why? Companies can buy carbon as flat sheets. Therefore a company can bulk buy carbon sheets and press only the bikes they need for that year. Then if their design changes they can just press our different ones the following year. This reduces waste each season, and saves them having a whole bunch of Alu frames that have been designed to obsolete spec, geo etc that they have to sell off cheap.

Now I am no expert on Carbon, engineering or anything to do with building bikes. But I know business and economics, and to me (if this is actually true what this guy was saying) then it seems like a no brainer. Regardless of what you may think about the values of companies etc..If it produces a bike that is better to the market, and lifts their bottom line. 9 out of 10 times...they'll do it.
  • 1 2
 Don't talk to engineers not working with certain application of material. Talking to engineers in general is very dangerous for your perception of the world. Just go to any university of technology and look at the students studying any kind of engineery... engineer is good as long as he is creative. R&D guys are cool,can talk to them forever. Unlike I-know-it-all geeks working at quality control or stress calculations.

signed: an architect -> we hate each other
  • 2 0
 +1
  • 1 1
 What kind of retarded "in stereotypes thinking" is that?!?!?!
  • 1 0
 Last sentence was meant to disguise the first part being a joke, I am an engineer myself... ok half engineer but I have it in my occupation status - chill out Wink
  • 1 0
 i.e. a disgruntled wannabe engineer? Seeing as you've put R&D guys and engineers in their place, maybe you can sum up the relative worth and coolness of all other professions for the benefit of the rest of the readers here.

Signed: know-it-all geek Smile
  • 1 0
 Well if you want me to insult more people, let's go with the architect first:

- thinks he knows a lot about everything from every discipline (structure, materials, function, facilities management, economy, sociology, fine arts

-considers himself an artist just as every other type: sculptors, painters etc. While 99% of the time he spends on meeting with clients and drawing win Cad

- thinks himself to be highly skilled in all possible software 2D CAD, 3D CAD, 3D visualization, 2Dpostprod like PS (while 99% of the time he draws in AutoCAD LT and SketchUP)

- as soon as an consulting expert points out some lack of problem understanding, he draws out the DESIGN argument.

- he rides a trendy looking bicycle preferably an "Apple" looking foldable, so he can take it to the meeting rooms so clients or experts can see his "low carbon footprint approach".

- white is the colour mostly used in fancy interiors, he puts it everywhere, floors, ceilings, walls, doors, chairs - all you miss is a girl from The Ring and a blood pool on the floor. At the same time 99% architects wear black...

- he tries to use MAC as much as possible, and brings one to the meetings, while nearly none of the CAD software works well with it.

- sees himslef as an bochemian party guy, when most arch students get blue screen tan at nights, while stiff engineers in student house next door party till they are down.
  • 1 0
 Excellent. Accountants next time you have time, so I can share with my wife. Smile
  • 1 0
 Mah, haven't met many in my life. Those two who I had something to do with, usualy tend to have one answer for even simpliest question: can I take some unpaid days off cause I haven't worked long enough? - oh I can't answer that because it always depends, it is complicated. Then I extended my brain to specify my question and the answer usualy was: oh I don't know, I don't work with sole contractors, I do only this big company stuff and rules are different. Then I delivered this accountant (who was damn cute BTW) the books and records with invoices and bills for my miserable own company that I'm happy is over - oh Mr Kipszak, you effort to organize your records and understand the tax system is exceptional among my male clients and really worth recognition, but everything you did was wrong...

damn she was cute... she sounded a bit sour on the phone so I got this stereotype image in my head, then I met her and she was the cutest round 40 woman I ever saw, and I'm 28...I was telling to myself, stop staring Wacek, fukin behave! I get this weird thing going on after I turned 25 and got married, I lost nearly all attraction to younger girls, should help me out when the midlife crisis comes along...

I hope this offtopic cools down some of guys here, draging their attention abit away from CF, seriously some guys geek lenses got such a zoom on this material that the sanity lost focus...
  • 2 0
 I recognized that "signed: an architect -> we hate each other" was meant to be a joke... But what about the quality and stress calculation guys?? And why are R&D engineers cooler???? I'm one of these stress(ed) guys, and feel like a never get laid guy now... Sorry, I think my language skills are not good enough to get that kind of humor...

BTW: Calculation of stress, deformation and especially fatigue in a directional fiber reinforced plastic is not trivial and there are very few calculation guys who know what they are doing, I'm not one of them, and I'm quite sure that none of them is working in the bicycle industry...
  • 1 0
 Sorry I didn't mean that. Wel i am comig from this perspective that if I can laugh at myself I can laugh at everybody else, expecting them to have same distance to themselves as I do with me. And I realize that being solely my own, not necessarily good way of seeing the world and having expectations to others Smile

To get into it R&D guys are the engineers bit closer to architects. It means we understand each other bit better as we create stuff, don't solely go into testing whether the given solution or material works at all. That does not mean you guys are any worse, I totaly appreciate your job, and I believe that most ignorant thing to do (and many maaany architects think that) is to consider expert consultants such as stress calculation guys, ventilation, sanitary or whatever, to be geeks sitting in tight rooms in front of old 13" monitors. Well there's plenty of bastards considering themselves arty and creative, thinking that way, but I'm not one of them.
  • 3 0
 you who complain about colors and wanting the rear end painted are chumps. that thing is a weapon, it would be like painting a stealth bomber. colors? the 90s called and they want you to put the anodized sh!t away. posers
  • 3 0
 Nice read Mike,

I just need to give my two cents; this is hands down the best bike I have ever ridden. I have been riding for 18 years. I am a hack THE hack my bikes cart wheel down the hill behind me more than I ride them. I ride six-seven days a week I put 73 days in the whistler bike park on the carbon v10 this summer with nothing more than cosmetic paint chips in the down tube and scuffs from the dakine gate pad. The current vpp set up with grease ports allows anyone to wash grease lube chain and put your bike away till tomorrow. There is no creaking no fatigue and it’s the same price virtually as the alum version which was amazing but nothing like the 10.4 knock carbon all you want boys and girls but also be ready to get passed by the guy or girl on carbon bike who spends way less time working on their bike and more time smiling and riding. Has anyone been watching the world cups? ya maybe the w.c. racers get new gear more often than average Joe us But performance is everything, Get on your local shops backorder list or miss out... search bikerguysctrp on YouTube earlier this summer I put together a short video with the carbon v10 on Goats gully. Remember riding is an easy way to find that happy place. Cheers
  • 6 4
 for a weight difference of a couple of pounds im sticking to aluminium. at least i'll be able to see when the structural integrity has been compromised. and i know carbon is stronger, but it doesnt show any signs when damaged. i was working on a specialized allez that was involved in a crash, after checking it over throughly i took it for a test ride. luckily it was raining outside so i only rode the bike inside the shop, went to turn around and both carbon legs on the fork snapped off completelly!!! and there were absolutely no signs of damage, no cracks no nothing......so yeah i'm stickin with the heavier aluminium
  • 8 1
 1.How can you compare CF fork to a CF frame? Don't you think this is a bit of two different worlds? Especialy having in mind the material (CF) that can be done in so many ways to adjust to certain requirements of certain application? Some applications (like brake levers or SRAMs XX shifter bodies) are just plain stupid, I mean you gain nearly nothing that would justify price increase. For now Magnesium lowers of forks are just best. They weigh second to nothing, do their job well, putting CF there is just asking for trouble.
2.Yea Alu shows signs of damage right, after some proper carnage when you see a dent or a proper crack. I assure you there are lots of people on alu frames riding at the moment I write this rant, with small cracks near welds of their swingarms or headtubes. Stuff you don't see until you wash your bike and look super closely, preferably having other person to push down on the bike to make the structure work under load - a thing very few people do.
  • 2 9
flag lalalala213 (Nov 10, 2010 at 2:12) (Below Threshold)
 1 -> i can compare CF fork to a CF frame exactly because of the material (CF). No matter the application, CF will always have the same physical properties, which include but are not limited to when carbon fiber hits its failure point, it shatters or splinters apart. There is no give to carbon fiber. Aluminum, on the other hand, will deform or bend once its elastic limit is reached.
2 -> its entirely upto the rider to check over their bike and im aware most people dont, however if they did they would be able to spot a problem. not so much with carbon fiber
  • 7 1
 it all depends when it comes to CF. Let's say we make 2 frames with the same fixed resistance for stress such as i.e bending twisting stretching compression. One with large tubing section and thin walls and one with small section and therefore thicker walls. The first one will come a bit lighter but the second one will have more hit resistance (no idea what is this mechanical characteristic in english). That is if we speak only about using just carbon fiber patches, rowings etc. Then add some other fibers like glass aramid that have better hit resistance properties which is absolutely doable and put it in between carbon fibers and you get even better overall frame hit resistance. Just make sure these others are not exposed to elements (i.e UV rays not to for i.e kevlar) or bending (I don't remember exactly but I think it was aramid fibers that don't like too much deformation, the resin starts to shatter between them). Add some shielding if you don't like outer layer chipping off
  • 7 1
 at the end of the day it all depends on application. If you gain too little by using CF over alu magnesium or whatever, just use the "classic" material just as they did with V10.4 swingarm.
  • 4 1
 CF can be very different depending on the application and amount the company wants to spend it can have VASTLY different properties. The CF used on Allez bikes will be very different to those used on this bike, basically you can't go comparing your experiences of the Allez breaking to what this bike would be like because the properties of what they're made of are very different.
  • 3 0
 WAKIdesigns what you're referring to is impact resistance (toughness) in english, so you got it pretty much right!

Just a side note from someone who knows a bit about composites: Every thread where carbon is mentioned, an advantage that is always mentioned is the fact that you can specify the layup to give directional properties; ie. withstand higher loads in certain directions. This is true, but only up to a point. You can never build a structure with only unidirectional fibres; as it will be far too weak in the other (bending and compressive) directions, and also prone to splitting. You will therefore always need other directions (usually 45º and 90º) fibre plies to "hold" the structure together. With thick section components (eg yacht masts) these other directions don't need to comprise a large percentage of overall material, but when you move to thinner section (eg bike frame) the relative amount off-axis plies that are required increases a lot. Things like bike frames are thus a lot less directionally tailored than you would think.
  • 3 0
 Best looking bike out there! It's the state of the art in all fields, from engineering, materials, kits to driving aspects of the bike. And it comes in all sizes (from small to X-large). Beautiful!
  • 2 0
 I think all this carbon stuff is a good thing when it comes to the development of new technologies and to advance things which by some time in the future could actually be on a "affordable" bike.

BUT for normal bikers with normal income that thing is just a vision of the future :-)
  • 3 0
 If carbon wasn't strong they wouldn't use it in both race and exotic supercars. Lamborghini, Aston Martin, and Pagani all use carbon for the frame and subframe of their cars. Just food for thought!
  • 1 6
flag mikeonetray13 (Nov 10, 2010 at 22:17) (Below Threshold)
 carbon fiber does not flex it snaps because its rigid = bad for dh bikes. that one plan that crashed off the coast a while back was carbon composite and it could not handle the flexing, so it broke.
  • 1 1
 mikeonetray: Actually you are wrong!

Carbon does flex and can flex allot!

It´s the designer that desides how much a carbon product flexes.
That is controlled with the one dirrectional layers in the frame.
Then the waved matterial support´s as a top layer.
The flex is allso controlled with different types of carbon sheets and the % of resin in the product.


Now i can only suggest you do some research on your own before you say anything more stupid.
  • 1 0
 Okaygo ahead and ride the carbon I rather get the metal one. Because it is proven stronger
  • 1 0
 when you get a nick it you frame kiss it goodbye. i will be riding with a dent.
  • 1 0
 well a hit that will dent a alu frame will not effect a carbon frame with as many carbon layers as the v10 and the Fury have!
It wont effect the carbon frame untill the force is so high that it would deffinetly ruin a frame with alu tubing.

And not at any time has a metal bike been proven stronger than a carbon frame if anyone compare two frames that weigh the same the carbon is always stronger.

And even if i get a nick in my frame i deffinetly wont worry at all because there are many more layers under the "nicked" ones that will keep the frame strength well above an top alu frame still!

So please more stupid comment´s please, like "it´s prowen stronger" and "kiss it goodbye" is just funny to read. So please continue making me laugh...
  • 1 0
 Do be a retard a nick will create a weak spot then crack then donezo steel Frame is stronger than carbon also
  • 1 0
 Well then you are a retard...

Congrats!

A nick in a carbon frame with as many layers as these DH frames have will not weaken the frame!

I have worked as a bike mecanic, metal worker, welder and with carbon making top quality produkts.

If you don´t have any experience working with this matterial don´t argue with pepole that have.

Cheers.
  • 2 0
 Alumunium does usually not show any signs of weakness before snapping.
A carbon construction will only snap completly in two where it has been glued together or where there is only epoxy in the construction without the carbon fabric in it.
Notice that these frames have Kevlar matterial in the top layer on the down tube and that can hold the frame together if the carbon cracs...
And the carbon will not give in because the human body does not take the same abuse as a bike frame layered with that much carbon.
Carbon is the future, you guys better get use to it!

vid.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=12jgP_NFDd4 />
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-fbSHENjHc&list=PL532C02035762658A&index=28&playnext=2 />

You can see how flexible some threaded carbon fabriks can be.

These treaded layers are used as a top layer but the layers underneath are one directional and allow the designer to control the flex and optimize strength at any given point or spezific direction in the frame.
  • 2 0
 Personally I can't wait to ride one this summer and I know our campers are foaming at the mouth to ride them as well. The day Dano our rep at Santa Cruz phones and says, "Your bikes have been shipped" is a day that will be better than Christmas.
Ken
  • 4 0
 I must say, i didn't like the design at first but it doesn't look too bad now Razz
  • 5 3
 It would be nice if you guys could add the weight in Kg's also to these reviews. There are loads of people visiting pinkbike how don't know about lbs's and don't bother to search for a convertor.
  • 7 3
 Geez, just google it. Or multiply lbs x 2.2 to get to kgs.
  • 5 1
 Sorry mistake above, DIVIDE lbs by 2.2 to get to kgs.
  • 2 3
 My point was exactly that I DONT want to google it.
  • 4 2
 Then Learn your conversion or stop whining.
  • 3 1
 Thanks for reminding me why I don't post in Pinkbike.
  • 1 0
 laars: Helppo tapa muuttaa jutut on laittaa googlen hakuun esim. 1lbs to Kg tai 1$ to €. Toimii kuin junan vessa. www.google.com/search?q=1kg+to+lbs&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:fi:official&client=firefox-a

Everybody else: I thought Canadians were using the metric system so why do you want to support the Americans stupid stone age Imperial unit system. Wake up! The whole world is using metric system except USA, Burma and Liberia.
www.unsoughtinput.com/index.php/2007/06/19/united-states-of-america-and-the-metric-system
www.meh.ro/original/2010_02/meh.ro3551.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units
  • 3 0
 I don´t like how the air shock looks i would prefer a Ti coil spring vivid i know is heavier than air but it would look better for me. nice bike !
  • 3 0
 alright now everyone blow out your Alu V10.3 size large I am looking to spend 1k for a frame, otherwise I'll just get a new one wholesale.
  • 1 0
 Sick looking bike, best sexy looking Santa Cruz ever no doubt, now be good to see how it handles the hacks out they're like me/us!

Carbon done right is hot hot hot, and SC looks to have done it right imo! But let’s not get into weight debates, the new DWL DHR is 9.5lbs with coil shock and no thin lizzy like the 1st gen Session for ex, it’s all about execution in any form of material sometimes that comes at a cost! Don’t get caught up in marketing hype, carbon has been around a long time and done right for along time in other industries as has alloy and steel….

This is one frame that could turn me to SC, but I'll wait a year or so lol.

I use Exilir Rs on my DH bike no issues, bleed and setup ya brakes from new and ya won't have a problem, if ya do ya riding wrong and braking too much too hard, which is slow, or you ride 8hrs a day in Morzine!
  • 1 0
 "With its 10" of travel the previous iterations of the V10 may have been pigeonholed by some as simply being "too much bike", even if they hadn't ever ridden it in anger."

"'Ridden it in anger," that's good stuff.

Sweet rig.
  • 2 1
 well we do have some green eyed monsters on this page dont we boys and girls not to mention some complete bell ends!!!

Also" Tommp" santa cruz would not build a bike which needs rebuilding after every ride, get with the programme!!! do you really thing they would risk their reputation theyve built up after all these years and let a production bike be un reliable and need servicing every five minutes!!?? I very much doubt it. Ive just ordered one of these frames and im a big santa cruz fan, i wil keep you all posted, although u prob wont see me on it too much as soon as i ride it the rear end will need servicing haha
  • 1 0
 take an example, whytes e-120 which is a full carbon xc bike with carbon links (although it differs with a rear carbon end) however the fact still remains that they creek like an absoulte bast*rd, its not santa cruz's fault it is just what bearings in carbon do. The e-120 is a great bike but it still needs constant attention and that isn't being ridden like we all should on a dh bike its being ponyed about by xc boys. That said i would ahve both an e-120 and a v-10. Still i guarnatte it will creek at a picture of muddy water, bit of grit and it will be making more noise than an F1 car!
  • 1 0
 Grease ports.
  • 1 0
 Sucks that they equipped it with a over priced air shock. Out of the 6 or 7 people I know that rode those shocks , none of them had positive things to say after the first week or two. I tried it and it felt awesome out of the box. Small bump tracked really well and took the big hits nice but after a week of solid riding the shock feels totally dead.
  • 1 0
 "For example, larger and therefore heavier pivot bearings have been utilized, but the benefit should be even better reliability. The bike also uses expanding collet pivot axles to keep everything tight, but also quiet, during the season" -excellent. That was not so much a problem as it was just a minor issue with the old bike. Pivots needed a lot of maintenance.
  • 2 0
 personaly I don't trust carbon frame especially my weight 95kg I'ts around 200lb(around)
and for example guys like B.Lopez(Ibis) S.Peat(v10)they can change frames every each race ,as like brett878 says
  • 1 1
 Yes I am sure they change a frame every race, I am sure they get to that level and race at the edge all the time on a product that according to guys like you can fail any moment... ouuuuuuuu - this is how SC engineers brain must be screaming after reading such posts - ouuuuuuu - like a donkey moaning straight after someone shuffled a baked potato up its arse
  • 1 0
 I Agee with u carbon is not the way to ride dh unless want ur bike to blow up on impact
  • 1 1
 there are two things that blow up so easily as you guys think CF does: James Bonds watch and Chucks blow doll...
  • 1 0
 the bike is totally sexy, but the big ol vivid air just kills it for me. I know its light and all, but it just looks.... well... rediculous. I just think a DH bike looks soooo much better with a coil shock (ti coil preferebly), i'll deal with the weight penalty. my oppinion, but i'd rock that bike if it were given to me! Wink
  • 1 0
 For everyone thats whining about the price of this beautiful piece of engineering, have a look at the price of every top of the line bikes and there pricing! Most sick bikes frames are all over $3000 and are not as light as this one. This bike is so sick looking and if anyone disagrees have a look on the santa cruz website and have another look at it or have your eyes checked! I have ridden and seen this bike put to the ultimate test by being ridden in all types of weather in the whistler bike park and many other trails, almost everyday day of the summer. And it is tuff as nails and takes any beating as good or better then any aluminum frame. And the ride... well it's the best bike I have had the pleasure of riding. Words can't explain it, but I have never seen anyone with out a huge smile on their face after doing a run on this sweet machine. I'm still blown away on how it handles every time I ride!
  • 1 0
 question is it true if you scratch carbon fiber it makes it week and suseptable to breaking ??? cuz i had a carbon fiber derailer and it snaped in the first month of owneing it ? could that happen to this v-10 frame too ??
  • 2 5
 Yes.
  • 1 0
 No, if it did SC would s**t themselves that a batch had screwed up.
  • 1 1
 Time will tell brah.
  • 1 0
 i know SC is good owning a vp free i know i cant compare the two but i think id rather stay with a alloy frame thats not suseptable to cracking like carbon fiber i think its a good idea just i realy dont like the idea of having my bike turn into splinters after i case a landing cuz we all do it ocasionaly not often but some times..... i just dont see the strength where the rear shock mounts looks like one hard landig and its toast... but wut khoolhandz says time will tell and ill get my answer.... im not dissing the bike at all just want to know if its as strog as the alloy frames
  • 1 0
 thats amazing i think at some point dh bikes are gonna max out in how light they can be and start being a disavatage there is such thing as to light none the less i wouldnt mind me one of those
  • 3 0
 you guys want to read about this discussion go here:

wakidesigns.pinkbike.com/blog/CFforum.html
  • 1 1
 Nice Bike, however Carbon fiber is resin casted and cannot take the abuse of Aluminum or metal, after a few big hits or crashes you can throw it in the garbage. Lets be realistic, this is geared for the world cuppers and people that have the money to spend on the best materials money can buy. Santa Cruz is overpriced to begin with, considering they sold-out to Taiwan I feel they charge way to much for there bikes.
  • 1 0
 Well i weigh 94kg and i have been racing my 16,7kg Fury all last season and will be racing the sema frame at least the next 2 years! Witout any worries a can tell you all! I have full trust i carbon and i know carbon very well as i have worked allot with carbon at a prosthetics company - www.ossur.com Carbon bikes that are built with this much material in are sollid and extremely strong and take lots more punishment than aluminium frames without loosing strength. The carbon frames only loose strength if you go oldscool Bender style and stress the matterial soo far that it actualli cracs. If you dont see a crack it wont snap but aluminium frames will snap without a warning after a lot shorter stress time!
  • 4 0
 Mmmmmmmmmarvellous!!!
  • 4 3
 really nice looking bike though i don't understand why companies keep putting Elixir's on bikes like this...doesn't make sense.
  • 5 0
 Why not, please explain?
  • 2 0
 why does it not make sense?
when the codes first came out they were considered overkill.
i have been using juicy 7's on my dh bike for years now and i never thought they were underpowered and the elixer's are even more powerful than the 7's.
  • 9 1
 I've had Elixir Rs and Elixir R-SLCs with Carbon levers.

They both sucked ass going down. Only good for trail/AM bikes imo.

Traded up to saints.
  • 2 1
 Well I rode Elixirs on my friends bike and I was pretty impressed comparing to Juicy which had the gummy feel that I hate personaly, but I know few like. Elixirs seem to be give a better feel how much power do you actualy apply. A thing that Saints are just bloody awesome at. Codes were a total crap to me, huge power sure, but well controlling it wasn't so easy. Just hit the steep wet slippery section and it was: "I hope I won't lock my front wheel". Rode them on a rented out bike and no thanks.

Still I'm not sure what is it that you don't like about them. If you are as spoiled as me with Saints though, or you have maybe even tried Formulas The One: well then every other brake system will most probably be disappointing to you Smile
  • 1 0
 i have the codes and they are over kill and i also have the elixers and the 7s the elixers are just right i find for DH
  • 2 0
 I had Saints, didn't like them at all. Fine when they worked but found they needed bleeding all the time and didn't like the feel of the lever or the level travel before they bit. Tried every adjustment to no avail. Also noisy as anything. I have Codes (2011) and they are awesome. Lovely feel to the lever, 100% reliable, light, easy to set up and perfect for DH. I would also happily consider the Elixirs as well, lovely modulation, great feel and plenty of feedback. Both are a million times better than the Juicy's of old.
  • 4 0
 to not just go to deep into that, people have different likes of brake feel and that's a fact. I love Saints, and only like Elixirs, while my friend HATES my Saints, too much power blaaaa f blaa, and nearly writes poems about all Avid brakes he has and have had. I find that relation Avid - Shimano users LOVE > HATE pretty common. then there are Magura users who in vast majority for some reason say Magura Louise is a best brake period. Well I can't tell that as I never rode one. Codes I tried were the old ones, and they felt like lots of power, with strange feedback. Haven't bled my Saints since a year, but maybe because I've put them together myself so I know that "the system is tight!"

What I know is: people are different and have different likes regardless of teKnology, if there are people who like riding FIXIES in city centres, then I truly believe that anything can feel great to someone... -so let's maybe cut this offtopic brake subcomment as some fixer will hang around with NO BRAKES is the best Razz
  • 1 0
 don't know if they're very big where you guys are from but hope brakes are incredible in the uk. literally i rode elixir carbons then hope tech x2s (which are the lightweight ones) and the difference was phenominal. soo worth the extra wonga
  • 1 0
 I personally like Formulas The One, the levers make most others seem like moto levers and they have great modulation.
  • 1 0
 I ride elixirs and they are nice but I wouldn't put them on a bike like this. I guess it makes sense in some ways (lighter, world cup riders are probably on the brakes less anyways) but for me personally I'd like a more powerful and reliable brakeset (Codes, Saints, etc). I'd trade the feel and modulation of Elixirs for the new Codes any day, especially since the new Codes have the Elixir levers now.
  • 1 0
 I laughed out loud when WAKIdesigns said "if there are people who like riding FIXIES in city centres, then I truly believe that anything can feel great to someone...". Thats a hilariuos quote that totally makes sense. There are real people designing these brakes that have opinions on how the brake should feel. Their opinion may be different from mine or yours but ultimatly, the people behind the design decide what a given brake will feel like. If you like AVID or SHIMANO chances are you have the same taste as the designers of your braking system.
  • 1 0
 the whole brake argument has to factor in rider weight. codes too much? you probably weigh less than 170lbs. i weigh 225lbs. and codes burned up, so did magura gustavs. there is no single answer to a good brake, its dymanic with your weight and trail choice so trying to argue for the "best" is kind of pointless...
  • 1 2
 I thought the V10 was designed hand in hand with the VPP to be run with around 40% sag to work properly, hence the 10" travel? So why the 8.5" travel option? Also how will this travel adjust feature effect the future of the Driver 8?
  • 4 0
 I was thinking the same as I saw the picture. Anyway all of us cannot afford this V-10, so possibly Driver-8 will take place longer time on the market... In my opinion, driver8 is a good but useless project from Santa Cruz. Sorry guys if I hurt somebody's feeling for D8. I do not want to be rude!
  • 2 1
 D8 is a park bike and was designed around that idea also to replace the Vp-Free and give someone the ability to have a long travel bike that pedals to the top.
  • 3 0
 It doesn't pedal to the top having no front derailer. That was the beauty of the vp free
  • 1 0
 you need two chainrings>>? Really? My VP has never had such a thing
  • 1 0
 Freak'n sweet! I wonder why they didn't do an internal cable routing? I wouldn't think it would compromise strength too much. But yes I love that bike.
  • 2 0
 Internal cable routing looks neat but is a total PITA if you need to change something quickly when racing. Any bike of mine with internal routing has always ended up with zipties holding lines in place externally - far easier to just have the tabs on there in the first place.
  • 1 2
 I think it's scary that's theres only a few lbs difference to the YT-industries Tues 2011, which costs 2100€ for the fr version (or 2200 in the DH edition) ...

EDIT : ok there's actually a 2kg difference ^^" sorry bout that
  • 1 0
 I am going to stick with my aluminum V10 for one more season and see how this carbon masterpiece holds up to everyday hell and abuse.
  • 2 0
 makes sense! and i think its a wise decision.
  • 1 0
 personally i wouldn't trust it i have seen what carbon fiber bars can do to a guy when they snap... hate to see what a frame would do :s
  • 1 0
 Well i don´t think you shuld compaire cf downhill parts to cf XC parts.
Even though some idiot desited using cf XC bars for something they where not desingned for!
Most all XC products will fail on a DH rig, metal and carbon.
  • 1 0
 The future of downhill is now visiable, not to keen on carbon fiber, but at sub 36lbs and if it holds strong.. No chance for metal frames
  • 2 0
 I'm getting bored and annoyed by all these Jizz and erections comments... Watch less porn guys!
  • 1 0
 agggrrhhhhh so devo i just bought a new scott gambler 10 and then spent 2.5k on better parts, would have thought bout this Frown
  • 1 0
 extraordinário!... é o que poderia se esperar da santa cruz... quando entra num segmento (quadros de carbono DH) entra pra detonar...
  • 3 1
 Wow, cheaper than my Nomad Carbon.
  • 9 0
 yeah, but that nomad is a sexual bike dude!
  • 3 1
 that geometry is very well done.
  • 2 0
 all i can say is sweeeeeeeeeeet!!!!! Big Grin
  • 1 1
 That is a bargain. With both an aluminum and carbon version that are similar in price, hopefully we shall see which version is more popular.
  • 2 0
 alu will be discontinued once this is released.
  • 1 3
 I don't see the point. Your components need to be heavy to be strong enough and long enough for DH. For example: That fork is 7 lbs alone. Why bother with a slightly lighter frame? Are they trying to do the lift chair a favor? Too light a frame and you are just going to move too much weight forward so you dive all day long.
  • 5 0
 "Too light a frame and you are just going to move too much weight forward so you dive all day long"

sorry man that is one of the most ridiculous speculation things I ever read... the whole bike weighs 35lbs, a DH coil fork weighs 7lbs - fine. Average Joe weighs 160lbs - 190lbs and most of his weight is behind bikes center of gravity. Which physical entity do you think plays the major part in front end going down?
  • 1 1
 And yet you can feel every pound in front of the bars times three, or I can anyway. I think it has something to do with leverage. Fork equals long heavy lever. Wheel equals weight.
Admittedly I might be delusional, but hear me out I have a home brewed theory:
I mentally draw a triangle between the points of contact with the bike (bar and pedals) and the front hub which is the part you're leveraging upward. Certain triangles are easier to tip back than others right? That's why bad geometry feels so crappy for drops and jumps: mechanical disadvantage. Another variable is relative weight on different points of the bike. The heavier the fork in comparison the more you would need to adjust the geometry to make up for it. Now I know rider weight is considerable, but long wheel base takes away at least some of that advantage, and regardless of weight it still effects overall performance and why would I want a bike that performs worse than the aluminum counterpart and costs more?
Gravity and light frames just won't mix until the components are light too.
  • 1 0
 well yes certain rear tringles and lighter front ends feel better when coming off a drop but if you ask me it is a matter of a proper riding technique.

If we take high speed drop off and you are in a neutral position and low on the take off then compensate in mid air with extending your arms and legs, then well you can have a super monster upfront and it is gonna be ok. If on low speed you are coming to a step down and you sort of "load the gun" by moving forward for a split second to give the front end an extra push - then you can add a gazzaloddi 3.0 to that super monster and it is still gonna be right. And this is how it is supposed to be done.

If you take a stiff rider with usual too far back position held all the time in all conditions, the he can have a 4lb Fox36float with DJ hardtails super short chainstay and sooner or later he is gonna bury his nose to the forest floor. In general with mechanical disadvantages with jumping I would blame badly setup underdamped/ oversagged long travel forks for most of "mechanicaly driven" carnages.

So it would be the fork to blame mostly, frame weight plays no role to me here. frame geo wmight be an issue if you run a bad size for how big/small you are.
  • 1 1
 yeah. I realized the weakness of my position early on but decided to soldier on regardless out of dumb pride
  • 1 3
 if i was rich enough to buy a new v.10 frame every time i had a big crash, i would so go for it. but if that frame slides down a rock face on cypress, i would have little hope for it. Carbon is also a matirial that, when it does fail, it fails catastrophically. and any small damage to the epoxy coating, or any impact will severely comprise the durability. With these two factors put together one must consider the amount of care, and inspection required to keep this bike running at full strength. It's an awesome bike for the educated, rich racer, but i dont know if it would be good for the weekend warrior who does 10 shuttle runs of cypress on an average Saturday, or even a week off at the bike park. But i guess the real world will prove how successful this bike is, and i'm sure it's an amazing fast ride!
  • 4 0
 I had a a conversation with a knowledgeable shop guy who said the CF may actually have durability advantages over aluminum. With the use of ballistic nylon fibers in the layup, the material has the ability to deflect impacts (like a soda bottle.) As you know, aluminum tends to dent pretty easily. He said this is what they are seeing in the real world (with the Ibises, carbon giants and carbon SC's) - more stuff bouncing off and not leaving dents and nicks. Durability of carbon cranks has been similar. I has the impression of it being brittle but I think that probably won't turn out to be the case.
  • 3 0
 This bike seems to be much better for a weekend warrior than the previous V10. And all of that thanks to the adjustability, so you can get yourself angles suiting average or below average riders.

Regarding the CATASTROPHICAL failure: I've seen few and it is called a Hollywood action movie.
  • 3 0
 z-man's concern seems to be the most common reservation with CF.. i.e. in a big event, my aluminum frame will bend/crack and keep me alive, while a CF frame will explode into a million pieces and plunge me to my death. While the comparison of these two failure modes has some conventional truth, I think the point at where they occur is missed... and also the modifications to specific CF applicatoins to resist this type of impact failure.. I suspect that the event that cracks or dents your aluminum frame won't even affect the CF frame... and the event that "shatters" the CF frame would equally and catistrophically destroy the Al frame... i.e. while CF failures "might" be more brittle than Al, they occure at much higher stresses... i think the frame manufacturers (SC, Ibis, etc) should get a good article out to run these comparisons if they want to promote the use of CF. I'm all for it and while I have my theory, i'd like to see the data and testing.
  • 2 0
 Very well said.
  • 1 1
 Well i weigh 94kg and i have been racing my 16,7kg Fury all last season and will be racing the sema frame at least the next 2 years! Witout any worries a can tell you all! I have full trust i carbon and i know carbon very well as i have worked allot with carbon at a prosthetics company - www.ossur.com Carbon bikes that are built with this much material in are sollid and extremely strong and take lots more punishment than aluminium frames without loosing strength. The carbon frames only loose strength if you go oldscool Bender style and stress the matterial soo far that it actualli cracs. If you dont see a crack it wont snap but aluminium frames will snap without a warning after a lot shorter stress time!
  • 1 0
 Nice! Remember when we debated the merits of aluminum over steel? "Yeah aluminum is light and stiff, but it breaks!" I just hope some of the CF stuff like wheels comes down in price. That's the real problem.
  • 1 0
 yes... but first thing made of CF I would love to see cheaper wouldn't be frames: I'd love to see Easton Haven carbon wheelset 1000$ cheaper. 1450g of USt ready rotating mass at the strength of Mavic CMAX SX... I'm scared to even imagine that in combo on trails with Contis supersonics... braaaaaaaaap!
  • 1 0
 Schuttg: So true. Pepole are just affraid of the things they don´t understand...

As the airplaine companies started making the big jets put of carbon the price has rised.
But as the cf manufacturers adjust to the ever demanding market the price will come down and will be cheaper than ever in a fiew years i hope.
  • 1 0
 There is a way around it... it's called communism Big Grin
  • 2 0
 its dirty, but has no pedals? :L
  • 1 3
 looks nice, 2 m,ajor problems 1 - carbon fails doesnt fatigue which means evrytime you crash you should inspect the whole of the bike. and when its breaks it breaks, no riding with dents 2 - it will creak like a mother unless after ever eide you remove the rear end and clean and re grease all moving parts. On the other hand it looks the balls and is fairly say , i'm just saying i wouldnt be one of the first people to have a prodcution one, to much at risk!
  • 2 0
 well "tommyp" im sure santa cruz would not have put a bike into production that needs stripping after every ride. That being said mine is on back order so i will let you know. woohoo cant wait!!
  • 1 0
 i think if santa cruz pushs the limits more than they have they might find a new dimension
  • 2 2
 i dont care how strong it is carbon can never be bendy so when u juge it wrong and clip a tree or somin in stead of a dent it will be a big crack or snaped
  • 1 0
 who in the right mind would pay 7000 dollars for a bike. Even 2000 is steep to pay for a bike. My GOD!!!!!
  • 1 0
 7 grand adds up piece of piss, 2k would get u a ghosty bike, cause thats about all it would be good for haha
  • 1 2
 yeah is still wouldnt pay 7 grand for a bike. There is better things to spend money on.
  • 1 0
 enorbz- i have spent at least 20k on my bikes and parts over a span of about 5years its not a big deal and its the most fun you can have.
  • 1 0
 damn fool thats just nuts
  • 1 0
 i will sell myself to get this bike hahah
  • 1 0
 looks clean as hell!!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 the $2999 is not with the Vivid Air
  • 1 0
 fuck me i want it but the shock looks strange any good
  • 1 0
 $7000?? I could buy a brand new dirt bike for that much! Cool bike though
  • 1 0
 MY GOD THAT'S A BEEFY AIR SHOCK
  • 1 0
 That thing is lighter than "my" AM bike...
  • 1 0
 Looks like the second hand re-sale value of my frame just went up Smile
  • 1 0
 i thought it wass more money
  • 1 0
 we should make roll cages out of carbon fiber. its so smart...
  • 1 0
 mmmm my next bicycle
  • 2 2
 Think i'm going to stick to aluminum thanks.
  • 1 0
 why he dont clean it!?
  • 1 0
 for me i need a canecreek shock " saint components all over then it might be ok "as it is it looks dull
  • 1 2
 my erections has lasted more than 4 hours just from the first sight of it....should i call my doctor?
  • 8 10
 i miss metal bikes- not plastic ones.
  • 3 7
flag lux-freerider (Nov 10, 2010 at 5:52) (Below Threshold)
 carbon is just as much a metal as aluminum is ...
  • 7 2
 apart from the fact its not^
  • 3 2
 would you mind telling me what carbon is then ?
  • 4 6
 Carbon fiber is a composite material most often found in race cars and expensive supercars although like all advanced technology it is finding its way into more and more vehicles. Despite it's expense and high-tech uses carbon fibre is relatively easy to work with. The expense of carbon fibre is offset by it's amazing strength and extreme lightweight properties. It is also extremely stiff and body stiffness plays an important part in contributing to good handling, especially at high speeds.
  • 1 0
 didnt realise my sarcasm was going to set all this off. nah i was kidding this is a rad idea. it just struck me as odd that the wiped the alloy v10 for the trial run year basicly of the carbon. spose there is always the driver 8 tho.
  • 1 5
flag lux-freerider (Nov 10, 2010 at 8:18) (Below Threshold)
 yeah but their tests proved that they can take as much abuse so I guess they didn't see a reason to keep the alloy V10 (altough personally I don't like the idea of a carbon dh bike) ... You can always go buy your bikes from another company ... santa cruz is too expensive for me anyways ^^
  • 1 0
 yea, the ride is always gonna be a bit different though. agree with you total santa cruz are a few thousand quid out of my range haha.
  • 1 0
 why did I get neg propped for my last comment ?? I only stated a fact, then my opinion ...
  • 1 0
 look at a periodic table carbon is a non-metal
  • 1 0
 Carbon is plastic and coal. Honest
  • 6 0
 I thought it was Kellog's fruit and fibre with no more nails in it...
  • 2 4
 i think it needs some more asthetic work befor i buy one.
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