Schwalbe's Procore Only Available at your LBS

 Not necessarily needed. However please make sure your brakepads are in good shape as Procore might bring your riding to a new level. ;-)

 So if it bought online it wont come through schwalbe uk so will be back to who its bought from anyway.. And buy sounds of it if you change a tyre yourself it will invalid the uk warranty too. So not much point buying it from uk. Just by it from Germany or France online as they don't have this 'must be fitted in a bike shop'

 At an exchange rate of a nearly 1,4 and the usually lower continental prices you would be stupid not to order from Germany or somewhere else. Within 6 months they have to replace it anyway if it fails, that is EU law that is often ignored in the UK but still applies, i am not speaking of the warranty that the manufacturer gives you. It is way easier to get German shops to acknowledge that, another advantage. Apart from that of course support your LBS, because some dude thinks he should make a living out of his hobby.

 To qualify for a refund the product would have to be fitted by someone qualified and competent to do the job. Good luck proving that when you've bodged your own installation

 "Within 6 months they have to replace it anyway if it fails".

Kind of true. Under EU Law, a full replacement or refund can be requested within 28 days, or thereabouts. But outside this 28 days, the consumer needs to give the seller of the goods an opportunity to confirm no user damage, or damage that falls outside a manufacturer's warranty.

 there are two things at play. the sale of goods/EU sale of goods contract you have with the retailer and the manufacturer warranty. Within the first 6 months the retailer show that a fault on an item is down to the actions or misuse of the buyer, rather than an inherent fault in the product. However, after this 6 months the onus is on the buyer, The EU directive 1999/44/EC, gives the consumer two years and they don't have to prove it wasn't their fault.


A manufacturers warranty is over an above this and is provided by the manufacturer not the seller.

 If there is a warranty issue with the product (bear in mind, you have 2-years warranty wherever you buy it from in Europe) you will have to send it back to the retailer you purchased it from, therefore you will not be covered by UK & ROI aftersales service provided by Schwalbe UK and its dealer network, therefore the replacement service might take some time. All Schwalbe products come with a 2-year warranty. With our dealer network in the UK and ROI we want to ensure you get the best possible service in the shortest time. Please consider- if you want to save a few bucks on a Procore set you buy online or pay slightly more, knowing that in case you have a problem your LBS is there to help.

If there is a warranty issue with the product you will have to send it back to the retailer you purchased it from. This is the standard way for warranty-claims anyway. Would you ring VW`s HQ if you had a problem with your car? Usually you would see your local dealer. Schwalbe UK offers an additional aftersales service for all dealers who buy in the UK and provide the service that is needed for a highly technical product such as Procore.

All official Schwalbe products have a 2 year warranty regardless of where you purchase from.

The reason why we only supply selected bike shops is simple - We are supplying Procore in this way to support local bike stores in the UK & ROI and ensure that you the customer receives the best possible service from your LBS. Consumers will always have a choice whether to buy online where it`s cheaper or in store where your dealer is there to help you in case you feel unsure mounting the system yourself. We say support your local store that pays local taxes, creates jobs, supports the local cycling community and helps YOU in case you need a spare-part on a Friday evening when you want to go for a ride this weekend!

 I take it you are doing this in the rest of the EU as well, only supplying select brick and mortar stores?

 No @poah , this is UK only. Copy paste responses here are shockingly missing the mark. pretty hilarious.

 @schwalbe if I buy it and have it fitted by uk shop what happens at a race on a sunday morning when I need to change tryes for mud spikes? will changing or fixing a flat myself invalidate uk warranty and aftersales service as has been suggested by some dealers?

 @bat-fastard - Changing the tire, as long as you have a rim with a minimum width of 23mm, is very easy. You don`t even need a compressor to do that which is a big bonus as you know as a racer. You simply change the tire, the procore system can just stay on the rims untouched.

Once you inflate it again, please start with the Procore. Inflate it up to 2-3 bar. Then inflate the tire till it`s properly sitting on the rim. Using Easy Fit makes the tire come out better. Now you can inflate the Procore to the riding pressure and adjust your tire-pressure. Please note, you have to fill in the sealant before you inflate the tire. Do not try to fill the sealant through the special Procore valve!

 @schwalbe, yes I already gathered that as that's how the similar mx one is fitted...
What about uk warranty as dealers have said this will invalidate warranty if I do it myself?

 The MX system - I guess you`re talking about Tubliss - is not as easy at you have tire locks and two tubes. Ours locks the tire only with its inflated pressure. But yes, the way you mount a tire is very similar.

It won’t invalidate the Schwalbe warranty if you do it yourself. BUT if you fit the system incorrectly and it fails because of that then your LBS won’t replace it for you because it is not a manufacturing fault. We are the same as many other companies - we only replace products with manufacturing faults, not faults caused by the user. Please use the instruction manual or our web-video when you work on your Procore system.

 "BUT if you fit the system incorrectly and it fails because of that then your LBS won’t replace it for you because it is not a manufacturing fault"

so just like every other part ever sold

 Thanks, that is different to what we being told so far.. yes if we muck it up its our fault, same as anything else, but schwalbe uk dealers where saying if you change your own tryes would invalidate warranty...

 As a bike mechanic with nvq level 3 qualifications and over ten years working in stores as a mechanic. I could be earning twice the money if I worked on cars, or practically anything else

 Well as a design engineer with over 20years working in automotive and machinery manufacturing I can easily fit this blindfolded with one hand ffs... I am actually thinking of making my own ghetto verion as I did have a 26" road tub fitted inside a wheel at one point.. was a pain to adjust trye pressure but worked first class.

 Unfortunately not everyone is as fantastic as you. Only takes one asshat to mess themselves up to spoil all the fun for everyone else

 Most of our customers are designers/engineer's and mechanics. Who know experience in bike mechanics is key to parts working properly when fitted properly.
As a design engineer surely you should take home 500+ a week and can afford anything so long as you aren't drinking/smoking all your wages

 Have a wife n kids to spend it for me, but then wife makes more than me too
All of ones I ride with are more than able to fit this. Its just stupidity and profiteering,
I'd like to see a mechanic that takes a bike into get fixed, wise up...

 I have kids and gf to spend my earnings too, gf would be wife if customers would pay more so I can afford to do more than just pay my mortgage and bills. I only have a decent bike due to the terms suppliers give me

 Schwalbe are insulting the end consumer. They are saying a big 'f*ck YOU' to people like myself who have invested in quality tools and equipment, spent time learning (the not very complex) skills involved in bike maintenance and the enthusiasts who keep up with the latest technology. This isnt about money either - without trying to boast, I can afford most of the top end gear without blinking - however I do resent wasting my money on paying someone to do something I have the skills and infrastructure to do myself not even considering the drive and passion us geeks have to understand and maintain our gear independently of a bike shop. This is unbelievably patronising and a massive dick move. If I do end up purchasing this technology I will be buying from a European supplier and installing them myself.

 I think @yoshikapur makes a valid point here.

@morewhitenoise - If you were friendly with you local bike shop I'm sure they'd let you buy them from them and fit them at home yourself. The issue in this world is the have-a-go heroes that will do it wrong and then blame the manufacturer. All Schwalbe is trying to do is make sure the right shops are fitting it for customers, and that the brand reputation is protected from forum/keyboard warriors.

Oh and the margin is absolutely shocking, so discounting will be minimal at best, at which point, you might as well go and support your LBS.

 Unfortunately @podderz your assumptions and generalisations miss the mark completely - and like schwalbe - you are dismissing my argument based on your ignorance of the market and your customers (i assume you work in the trade based on your sentiment).

I do 'support' my LBS - i get wheels built by them and have had other things done where I cant justify the one off cost of tooling. I get on with the guys in the shops i use (not just one) and ride with some of them too. This is completely irrelivent.

The traditional retail model doesnt fit my needs. I dont work 9-5 5 days a week, i work 60 hours a week regularly and have upwards of 4 hours travel time either side of my work commitments. I also have my own business and other hobbys. I cant physically get to a shop to buy stuff, so i order online and do it myself. why should i have to take a day off work to go and get some inner tubes fitted?!

No one should be penalised for buying things from one supplier or another, this strategy goes against the free market we have in the EU. Protectionist marketing like this will never succeed and i dont see this strategy lasting more than a quarter.

All of your excuses attempting to validate this direction are baseless marketing spin. Any good warranty department should be able to filter out the user error and 'JRA's - this is dick move is far more damaging to the brand reputation than a few burst inner tubes!

 Very well said, @podderz !

 @morewhitenoise

If you are good friends with your local shops, and go riding regularly with them, why not pick it up out of hours on an evening ride, or some time when you aren't working? This is obviously possible if you can get wheels done or other repairs made.

If the retail model doesn't work for you that's fine, but by buying everything you can online you are destroying the local shops you are friends with. Why not even get your local shop you're friends with to mail it to you!? I think you are in the minority here, there is plenty of excitement elsewhere in the market for this product, people want it, and they will get it however they can.

I'm sure there is very few people commenting here that have had actual experience fitting pro-core. I have, and it is technical. @schwalbe did it for me the first time to show me exactly how it worked!

 nothing on a bicycle is that 'technical'. If you can do it after being shown once, im sure i could work it out in a few minutes... ignoring the needs of the market is a bad move. as i kept saying my personal situation is irrellivant. You are wrong and so is schwalbe. every single comment on here against this move is another customer that wont venture near their shop for fear of warranty denial. protectionist economics always fails...go do some research. im not against the lbs business model, it has its place in the market but this move does nothing to help the LBS at all and just adds another layer of cost and price fixing that customers will not want to fork out for.

 Just don't buy it then?

 Hey @morewhitenoise - we offer 2 years warranty for all our products. You can choose 2 models of how to get procore:

1. Your LBS get`s you the procore and helps you to assemble it on your bike or does it for you. In case of any question ask the LBS for help or contact Schwalbe UK who offer a ON-TOP SERVICE, the direct support for UK procore customer. If you have any problem the dealer will take care of it.

2. U buy your procore from dealers outside UK - You will get your procore and can mount it yourself. In case of any problem, please speak to the dealer you bought it from. In worst case and you want to send back the product as you think it`s a warranty case, please contact the dealer you bought it from and send it to him. Therefor you have to pay the shipping costs. This is exactly as EU and UK laws define the procedure of warranty claims.

It`s not like we want to support economists, we want to make sure the customer is happy with the product and a possible problem is not caused by incorrect assembling. We have a long experience with technical products and get a lot of products back that were used in the wrong way (such as commuter tires used with too low pressure or roller-tires are used outdoors and people want to sue us since these tires have no grip in wet conditions and so they crashed). There are customer who know how to work on their bike and some don`t.

 yep it's bollocks they stated the schwalbe one road tyres would only be available through your lbs but no wiggle are selling them

 Schwalbe say this also so you have to pay full price for them, and so they will get rid of all the "cheap" suppliers so they can control pricing.

 Schwable can't tell retailers how much to charge, they can only suggest. if they try to price fix the EU will fine them significant amounts of cash

 hope so a thin tyre with no tread and a small tube with even a double valve will sort it very simply... I think the tyre and tube could even be combined into a tub tbh to make it better and more simple.

 It is a UK & ROI strategy only, implemented by Schwalbe UK, the UK subsidiary of the Schwalbe HQ in Germany. We experience many problems with our high-end tyres caused by compatibility problems and incorrect use of our tyres. We follow the rules of the ETRTO to ensure Schwalbe tyres fit perfectly on every ETRTO conformed rim. With the new trends of wide-lightweight rims or hookless carbon rims, we foresee some customers struggling to get their tyres on as the tyres get stretched on the rims. We want to make sure our customers are happy with the product and have a contact to speak who knows their bikes and can see a problem straight away in case they have a problem with our products. Of course the Schwalbe offices in Telford or the HQ in Germany are happy to answer your questions, but this can take some days and we don`t see your bike or rims to get a good idea of a possible problem. However we also meet a lot of very skilled customer at events and know that not every customer needs a LBS to put a technical product like Procore on their bike. Those skilled consumers can still shop online or ask the LBS for a set.

 why the neg prop FFS, also if you do a self repair on the trail will that invalidate the warranty, as I all repaires have to be done by the shop as well feel free to neg prop that aswell

 Only neg propping because you told me to

 Yeah it's shame they only last a few weeks , love the grip but my wallet can't keep up with replacing them

 there are EU regulations about restricting sales and monopolisation. you will be free to buy these products anywhere in the EU and have them shipped to your house. Warranty will be impossible to enforce and it would probably end up in court if they tried to screw people over.

 If you put a bike together yourself, its already voided the warranty. Getting a bike shop to do it means its done properly, and hence why they warranty that only. I've been taught how to do it and so I'm happy to fit it to any bike. Its fairly complex and if done wrongly can be pretty dangerous.

 That's a bit crap then, so do they want you to take it to bike shop every time you want to change a tyre too?

 well that's no good, standing in carpark before a race and decide I want to put mud tyres on.. hold on I have to go to bike shop to get them fitted...don't see that working well...

 So l turn up to a race or ride
The conditions / weather changes
I need to change tyres
Do I need a bike shop to come an change my tyres for me, or I'm not warranted if I change my own tyres??????

 Legal BS more like

 There's nothing more dangerous with procore than a normal tubeless setup. That's a bunch of crap, ok so obviously there's no labour covered under warranty if you build a bike yourself but all the parts like brakes, forks, frame, shock and so on are covered against manufacturers defects. Usually companies ask to have the items sent back for inspection to see the cause of the issue and decide if they will warranty it. Also in the terms of the warranty there is a whole heap of things they will not cover like damage from abuse, misuse, improper assembly or lack of maintenance. This is another reason manufacturers ask to have the parts sent back. So if I order something online I'd expect there to be a warranty still. Which protects against manufacturer defects like for instance a leaking seam on the inner procore tube or a dodgy valve that won't change between the 2 chambers. Hopefully that explains it to you. Thanks Euan

 what 90psi... that's not that high, road tyres can be twice that. rim width must be over 23mm, carbon rim that's certified.. how hard can it be? its only a tube inside a tyre with no tread.
If the core bursts it will only bring tyre upto about 35-40 psi from 20psi so wont blow the tyre either..
profiteering is what its is....

 A stubborn tyre on a proper tubeless rim can potentially need 6 bar to seat it as I know from experience. So going on that idea, I can't bleed my own brakes or change pads myself because there's a danger I do it wrong and it fails. Or I don't tighten my wheels up properly and one falls out whilst riding. What if I service my forks and don't tighten the top cap down properly causing them to explode when I pump them up to 140 psi. Or on my car I change the brake disc but don't tighten everything up properly and it falls off at 70 on a motorway. The list is endless....

 Took me almost 80psi to pop wtb wardens onto halo chaos rims... A rim that cant take 40psi...now your having a laugh....

 "Road rims are different, I know of a couple of rims that won't take more then 40psi... So crack!! Basically, stopping idiots fitting them.."

That's the exact reason I want to do it myself to stop idiots fitting them on my bike.

 No just one valve actually, it just rotates and switches between chambers. It's not rocket science, yes it will need care and patience when fitting but I should have the option to buy the system online with a warranty.

 Its not rocket science, been a similar system for mx bikes as years...

 That sounds better than the initial report I read. I'm no idiot around bikes and agree we should have the right to install. I do however agree that products should be properly installed and the only way to ensure that is for it to be installed by someone who is recognised as being competent. It's the same with whatever you buy even if you build your own mtb it's clear in the warranty terms it should be assembled by someone deemed competent.

 Yea the system is pretty straight forward to fit, but you just know someone will come out with a "better" way to fit it and will bodge it. Seen many bodged tubeless systems not go up properly etc. Rather everyone would take the procore into a shop at first. Maybe Schwalbe will change their policy but atm, they're doing it for their warranty and prices. This comes straight out of the horses mouth...I spoke to Tim Ward, their (Schwalbes Sales Promoter) and he told me these exact two reasons.

It certainly isn't rocket science but there are a LOT of dumb people out there...That can't be denied.

 At last! Someone with sense lol

 There is no sense in this and you try to defend it by saying there's a lot of dumb people, the rest of europe can buy it online with a warranty. Everything I do in my job has the potential to be fatal, there's high pressure gas containers, welders that could deliver a lethal shock or terrible burns, Oxy/propane cutting torch and there is far higher risk of these things going wrong, also anyone could just buy that equipment if they wanted to and just use it. Yet schwalbe think it's too dangerous for someone to buy procore and fit it themselves, where is the logic in that. I'm done arguing now but the whole idea is pretentious and your argument for them doing it has no grounds. It's a tyre and tube setup for crying out loud.

 Thing is... Those things you work with... Are clearly dangerous, so no one in their right mind would work with them without training or know how. Setting up this setup is not hard...I'm not saying it is, but its more difficult then a normal tyre or tubeless etc. I think the main reason for this is for the pricing. If you buy cheap, you don't get backup.. Simple. Buy to support local bike shops and not support online companies that hustle Schwalbe out of Procore and tyres on the cheap to sell them cheaply.

 That's my point it's clearly dangerous yet you can buy it all easily. Pro core isn't dangerous. Thing is who's really being hustled, I'm sure schwalbes pockets won't be empty wherever we buy it from, how much do they pay the people who make their products?

 Yea they're not out of pocket here at all, I know this. I guess the reason I'm so pissy about this is because we have a lot of people asking for online prices on things that we cannot even get close to. I spoke to Tim and mentioned this, his answer was to restrict it somehow, and the backup is that restriction. Can't compete with online prices but if companies put these arrangements in place, the local bike shops get a bit or support too. Which is nice..

 So Schwalbe UK are propping up LBS' business with consumers money hanging the threat of no warranty?
It's not the consumers fault you're not competitive, and shame on Schwalbe UK for holding the ultimate customer to ransom.
If they really wanted to ensure correct fitting, they'd refuse to supply online shops (like nextdaytyres) but this would hit their pocket so instead they'll just hit ours and hopefully save a few quid by refusing some warranties.
Schwalbe would do well to remember who it is that lines their pockets.
the workaround is just to order from Germany and send it back there if there is a problem.
Out of interest how much are you intending on charging for installing this system?

 Randy, there's a difference between supporting your LBS (who might not be a schwalbe accredited supplier anyway) and being strong-armed with a tactic not applied to the rest of europe.
Of course Schwalbe could easily support B&Ms by offering preferential pricing but they don't want to do that. Interestingly they want to support them, but only as long as it doesn't hurt their own pockets. If they're concerned about installation, they could just produce comprehensive instructions.

I think the competition will be interesting and if Schwalbe have managed to wrap up the patents for a product which already existed (albeit for motorcycles). For the record, I was very excited about this product, it shapes up to be a real game changer and Schwalbe (germany) deserve lots of credit for it.

 Im just not seeing the big deal. Schwalbe can distribute the product as they see fit. As consumers if we dont like it we just dont buy it. It always amazes me that whenever a new product comes along the the industry gets slammed for being exploitational. To my knowledge in this case there is no other alternative to this product for a pushbike. It represents a lot of development on the part of the companies involved and potentially offer us cyclists a solution to age old puncture problems. So what if its expensive and exclusively availabe. Its not unusual in the cycle industry, some bike suppliers only supply to certain shops, rigidly enforce a no discount policy and no online purchasing policy. Im not seeing anything different or surprising here

 you just aren't getting it, we are interested in this product but they're trying to lock us in to spending another £50-60 getting the bike shop to fit the system and threatening us with no warranty if we buy it online. It's basically extorting anyone that wants to buy it, sure some might say it's an investment but that £50-60 would also buy me a new pair of schwalbe tyres online to go along with it, I will most likely buy it from bike discount or star-bike because there's no BS and the customer service is top notch.
Call us haters or whatever you like but we're just using common sense and can see how stupid this idea is. As someone else pointed out are we supposed to go to a bike shop everytime we need a tyre change, it's an absurd idea.

 Only warranty issues your likely to have is a flat tyre, which will either be a puncture or poor installation.
Neither of which would see a claim anyway. You currently pay £40 plus for decent rubber plus decent tubes or a tubeless kit and not one of you would consider a warranty claim for failure.
Personally I'm happy to install myself and would probably buy out of the uk. Difference is I'm not outraged by this and don't expect any level of support because I've got it from a third party.
A lot in here are also making the assumption that they will do a better job than the approved stockist which considering its a new system which none of us have had any experience of is ridiculous and at the same time insulting to professional mechanics.

 That's not a warranty issue, I'm talking potential problems like leaking seam, things that might be wrong out the box that you would get a warranty claim for. I'm paying about £30-35 a tyre for schwalbe and obviously putting a hole in a tyre isn't a warranty thing.
You come across far more outraged at us questioning the thought process behind this idea, If you agree on being allowed to buy it online then why did you argue to death that it's fine for them to carry this out. Obviously with buying stuff online if you fit it wrong there's no comeback but that's on us to decide if we want to go that route not schwalbe and they've given the rest of Europe that choice, why not us?
Ok that one was a dig at highend bikes telling us it's too dangerous to fit it ourselves.

 I guess in the long run it won't matter anyway. If we all choose to buy abroad and fit ourselves the policy will soon change. It's a bold move by a tyre supplier and I will agree that it's interesting that this system only affects the uk and roi. I just don't think its a big deal

 "high-end-bikes Plus (1 days ago) (Below Threshold) show comment

If you put a bike together yourself, its already voided the warranty"

no it doesn't

 Don't be silly.... Read the box you get the bike in... must be put together by a "specialized" or "whatever" dealer...

 Just shut up, the argument had been resolved. Yes your warranty will still be valid as I explained above.

 "flag high-end-bikes Plus (38 mins ago)

Don't be silly.... Read the box you get the bike in... must be put together by a "specialized" or "whatever" dealer..."


It could say you must shit in the mouth of a passing Frenchman while building your bike in order to keep your warranty it would still not make any difference as its not legally enforceable or people wouldn't be allowed to change things on their bikes themselves. anyway the sale of goods act supersedes any warranty so the bike shop would have to warranty the item

 Thanks @klerric

 We make money on every sale of Procore regardless of where you purchase it from because Schwalbe is a group of companies across Europe so we benefit from all sales online or otherwise. All wholesalers buy our tyres for the same price, so at the end of the day it’s the shops who decide what margin to make since online shops have significantly smaller running costs than a LBS they can sell their product for less. However, Schwalbe UK will actually make less money because they are delivering direct to local bike shops in smaller qtys when normally they would supply wholesalers in larger qtys. As you can see, this is not a money-driven decision.

 I support local bike shops as much as I can but I'll always go for the bargain option. CR does lead the market so it's giving the smaller companies chance to sell a good product. I just hope they price it realistically. It's good that comments are read on here and responded too. Cheers

 it up online on few German sites etc for preorder atm