Shimano Announces 4-Piston XT Brake Caliper

Aug 21, 2017
by Mike Kazimer  
Shimano XT 4 piston

There hasn't been a four piston version of Shimano's XT disc brakes since the early 2000s, but now the powerful stoppers are back for another round. Aimed at aggressive trail riders, along with the eMTB crowd, Shimano says that the M8020 caliper delivers 20% more stopping power over the current 2-piston M8000 caliper.

For riders who already have XT brakes and are thinking about upgrading, the good news is that the caliper is backwards compatible with the M8000 lever. When the new calipers become available this December they'll retail for $119.99 each, or $199.99 for the caliper and lever.


www.shimano.com

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313 Comments

  • + 155
 I am no longer upset about your lack of 12 speed innovation. Good move Shimano!
  • + 80
 Why would you be upset in the first place? 12 speed is another "innovation" MTBing doesn't need. This is sick though. XTs are the best brakes on the market.
  • + 78
 I agree! Upgrading what are possibly the best brakes ever and making them backwards compatible? Double win right there!
  • + 46
 As a person who's been on 11 speed and 12 speed, I'm over the moon (in an ecliptic way) about my 12 speed. I can run a single 34t ring up front and never run out of gears for any style of riding. I'll never go back to 11 speed because of that. Sram has certainly improved from all the negative issues from previous drivetrains which makes eagle so great but I still prefer the crispness and two-click lever of Shimano.
  • + 18
 Yes but this one goes up to 12. INNOVATION!
  • + 78
 SRAM for drivetrain, Shimano for brakes. Same on all of my bikes. Admittedly though, I'm still on 11 speed and plenty happy.
  • + 24
 @dirtworks911: But with the E13 11spd cassette (9-46), I have more range than you while having a smaller front ring (improved ground clearance) and shorter chain.
  • + 4
 Yeah... Innovation for e-bikes.
  • + 29
 @passwordpinkbike: 11-36T 10spd w/ 34 tooth and some tall boy Rainier's will get ya anywhere ya wanna go
  • - 77
flag Reidwyllie (Aug 21, 2017 at 18:30) (Below Threshold)
 @scott-townes: these brakes are pointless, the ZEE brakes are still almost as powerful as Saint so XT is useless. Also when magura, sram and trickstuff why would anyone want to resort to shimano brakes when they are so inferior.
  • + 2
 @motoxxxer26: how are the shifts and hows the back pedal?
  • + 19
 @Reidwyllie: Pointless?... You think having options is pointless?... XT brakes are just as good (if not better) than the other brands' brakes and much lighter than the ZEE or Saint brakes... That to me is important (XC rider) so it's far from pointless!
  • + 8
 ran both e13 9/46 with XTR and SRAM x01 eagle on my bike. The Eagle is way superior to the e13 setup. Better, smoother shifts, less chain drag and less noise.
  • + 38
 @Reidwyllie: You're a kook if you think shimano brakes are "inferior".
  • + 16
 @Kenfire24: Shimano brakes aren't bad, but there are definitely better options than XT at the same price point. I honestly don't know why people buy XT brakes. The only difference between SLX and XT is that XT comes with the nothing adjustment.
  • + 11
 In Shimano I trust.
  • + 12
 ***reintroduces 4 pot xt caliper***
  • + 3
 @motoxxxer26: but not as smooth of a transition from 9 to 46
  • + 5
 Well done Shimano! I believe this is worthy of a 12/10 rating, even an Eagle badge Wink
  • - 2
 @LukeBurgie: slx doesnt have lever adjust right? Im not talkn bite point
  • + 11
 @LukeBurgie: Because XT. Three years of one finger stopping power in sometimes horrific riding conditions. Never touched 'em except for pads about every six months.
  • - 1
 @jrocksdh: it has, but you need a hex key.
If you ask me, I prefer the hex key instead of the knob. I have XT's and Deore by the way.
  • + 20
 @WaterBear: Why don't you just make 10 louder?
  • + 8
 @billreilly: Really? How much lighter are XT brakes than ZEE??
  • + 6
 @scott-townes: Do not knock on 12 speed. It's really hard to complain about Eagle once you ride it...That shit is bomb... I can tell you that after doing a 4000ft climb, that granny gear sure feels nice on the steep technical gnar. Then you don't have to spin out when you're raging down the hill..
  • + 12
 @scott-townes: I would be OK with wide range 9 speed to be honest. I skip so many gears as it is on shimano 11 speed. And I don't understand for that price why you wouldn't just get Saint or zee on the brakes
  • + 12
 XT8000 - thy without issues raise your hand. Mine need bleeding once a month
  • + 11
 You lost me at "eMTB crowd"
  • + 5
 @yaska515: as a loser and wanker who writes tons of sht online I did all day rides with on 34-40 on 27,5 160 bike with DH tyres. I will knock on Eagle...
  • + 5
 Wondering the same thing. AND if the goal is greater stopping power for e-bikes just use ZEE in the first place. It's an e-bike, who cares about a couple grams.?.? Still, these look cool.
  • + 0
 @mikericci: The only thing with SRAM is the lack of 165mm crank arms.
  • - 2
 Counting might have been an innovation who knows ... 20,000 years ago? I think most can count: 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 speed and more 14, 15, 16, 17 ...
  • - 4
flag duzzi (Aug 21, 2017 at 22:44) (Below Threshold)
 @dirtworks911: Kind of ridiculous ... you can easily have a 11 or 10 sped with the same range of a of the Eagle. Only thing 12 does is to add weight.
  • + 8
 @scott-townes: I used to think XT are the best brakes on the market, until riding some "alternative" slopes in Morzine. They simply were not powerful enough. Took a bike with a pair Guide R's, and they did the job great. Now I neither want to say that Sram brakes are better (I remember the pain to bleed my old Elixir 7 and some people had defective Guides, that were sticking pressed while overheating), nor that it's fair to compare 2 piston to 4 piston brakes. But any bike that will go to real mountains should either have a pair of Saints or maybe these new 4 piston XT's, or have a wizard rider that touches them only once in a while.
  • + 1
 @scott-townes: i need it.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Shimano period???
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: although this comment is probably not coming out of your trollside i cant believe it. you are probably fitter than a lot of riders. i try to ride /train 2-3 times a week and could not do this (given there is an average ammount of climbing involved- (>1000m)). in fact i am very happy with my 28-42 on allday rides in the alps (29er though).
  • - 7
flag WAKIdesigns (Aug 22, 2017 at 0:27) (Below Threshold)
 @optimumnotmaximum: no matter where I go I'm usually lining up comfortably in top 20% of local populace if I get to ride a trail 5+ times. Either up or down. Please note though that while difference between 60th place to 10th may be big, difference between top 10 and top 3 is dramatic. And then you have guys who race in top20 of Xc/DH World Cup and EWS and that's another chasm to gap. My power output or weight lifting are just above average so not really that strong. But I am far from doing much to get there. 90% of my gearing ratio is to my genetics and trained physiology, I am just built for low to medium cadence. However judging by statistics and 80/20 principle I cannot be the only one and there is a high chance that there are quite many folks out there who spin fast because 99% of information on the subject points them to 90-110RPM mantra. What I mean with that is that Eagle is a product actually usable by a niche, while 42ish stuff is the thing for majority of humans.

If I lived in Alps I'd be simply running 10sp drivetrain 11-36 rear and 36t chainring with 24 granny without front mech, moving the chain by fingers on the bottom and top of the mountain.
  • + 3
 @malitia: not really. Not after my experience with XTs of all kinds since 2008. I am looking forward to try Codes and maybe Hopes to see if MTB Crossfit vegans are right about them.
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns: sorry meant that as a gross reference. Your Shimanos needing bleeding once a month... Shimano periods. I hate Shimano btw
  • + 1
 @rocky-mtn-gman: can I get an AMEN!!!
  • + 10
 @kiddlivid:
XTs are already damn powerful, and they have 4-piston variants in zee and saint. Why does there need to be an XT version?
  • + 2
 @LukeBurgie @jrocksdh : I agree, MT5 much more power, lighter, with a lever that many people like to flame on but imho works just fine.

I am super happy with my Deore 615. There you need a 2mm hex for reach adjust. SLX has tool-free and slightly bigger ceramic pistons, XT then has the "contact point" or whatever it is supposed to do wheel. Could be more powerful though, next thing I would do is to bolt a Zee caliper on the front one.
  • + 4
 @E-ROG: Marketing, everyone wants Shimano XT everything on his bike over here. Plus Fox suspension and Conti or Schwalbe tires.
  • + 2
 @murphburg: Couple of grams i guess.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: if your within the top 20% going up it is no wonder your described gearing is sufficient. in my case the percentages are quite different . going up is usually around the 50% mark -at best. going down it is always my task to be within the first 10 % - and i mostly succeed. looking at the numbers i think my fitness is a bit more representative for the average rider than yours. 34-40 is simply not enough for me in steep terrain (alps)

the time I lived in the alps i used to do the dirty finger trick as you mentioned -nowadays i just visit my parents there and every time i try to run the 32 ring (again 29er) i suffer hard. I guess 32-50 would be fine.
  • + 2
 @optimumnotmaximum: again it has a lot to do with your genetics as well as with how you have conditioned your body. Body can adapt quickly. I adapted to low gearing in a matter of max 2 years when jumping from front mech to 32-36 (26" bike) at the moment if I go 34-42 and it gets too steep I am reaching walking pace. If I had 46 in the rear it would simply make me slower riding than walking and at those speeds walking is more efficient

However there is no running away from the fact that all this gearing chit chat comes down to the terrain one rides in - how steep are climbs, what is the surface, what air temperature and what altitude we are talking anout. Then what tyres and what suspension. Each of those faxtors alone, has dramatic influence on climbability. For instance this summer I was climbing a fireroad at a really good pace, often dropping to 36t cog, then suddenly road gets steeper and I am suffering. Then it levels out, in less than 5 minutes later my body gets into "endurance high", I am dropping from 40 to 36, I am flying. Then it gets rough, some old cobble stones come through the surface and I am barely riding. I am almost getting off and see the mountain pass ahead. Roll onto it, turn into final ridge, steep, no more cobbles though, just getting on top, closer and closer, just before the summit It gets really steep with lots of fist size rocks. Perhaps Nino Schurter could pull it off. I can't. Would Eagle help for that last bit? Hell no, it would be even worse, if you ride such loose chunk you need to drop to really low gear, at least 1:1 and mash pedals like an idiot.
  • + 2
 I have XT and wish they had more power. Guide's I have on another bike are much stoppier (running sintered metallic pads on both). However, I don't quite understand why I'd want 4piston XT over Zee or Saint.
  • + 3
 @dthomp325: I jumped from guides straight onto XT 8000. I found Guides to be amazing with modulation but XT SEEM to have more power. I no longer know what to buy... every single brake system I have owned, save the first 4-pot Saints, has failed me after a year or earlier.
  • - 1
 @E-ROG: I have XT m785 levers with ZEE calipers on my ebike. It's just perfect. And cheaper.
  • + 1
 @motoxxxer26: I have 11 speed, but I'll side with @dirtworks911, who observed "for any kind of riding". If you take your enduro to the bike park with 11 speed and small chain ring, the widely spaced gearing is frustrating. With 12 speed and a 34t, as he mentions, you can climb steep stuff near the resort and have a fun time railing the park later in the day at the resort.
  • + 2
 @Rudolfo-Balofo @jrocksdh: SLX does indeed have the lever adjust knob, it's Deore that requires the hex key. I ran SLX 675 brakes for 3 seasons.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I've xt on my 08 Reign, works flawless... it sits most of the time, or hangs up actually. Brakes are rock solid every time i bring it down to ride. ZERO issues
  • - 1
 @jvbutter: my M785 XTs were great for two years, then I took them to a bike park, rode a steep old school DH track a few times, cooked them up and they were never the same again
  • - 2
 @sam264: because saint and zee calipers are the size and weight of a small child.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: The initial bite on my XTs is grabbier, but my Guides are definitely more powerful when squeezing hard. Where I live we have lots of mach 10 straights->180 degree switchbacks, so the brakes get a real workout if you're trying to ride fast. In some sections I just can't get enough stopping power.

Setup: XT with sintered ice tech pads, 200/180 XT rotors. Guide RS, sintered Sram pads, 200/180 HS1 rotors.

I should have bought the Saints... may upgrade this winter.
  • + 4
 That's the whole advantage of 4 piston right? First piston has a lower leverage ratio for modulation at low force, and then the second kicks in with a higher leverage ratio for more force.

With a dual piston you're limited to either giving it good modulation or good power, but can't really do both.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns:

Had my XT8000's for about 2 months... crap. My Guide RSC's are much superior in feel and power.
  • + 0
 @JDUBKC: Can't wait to get enough cash to buy CODEs...
  • + 2
 @etga6657: there must be a electric moped site where you can talk to people in the same "sport" as yours. This is a biking site.
  • + 5
 @RedRedRe: where a bunch of losers call themselves legitimate cyclists who by the order of Gawd almighty get to decide what real cycling is about. Simply put 26 for life and flat pedals win medals. Peaty legend, Minnaar GOAT, Norbs got robbed and Redbull should pay. That's more or less it. We know what and how to think. everyone else is lamé
  • + 2
 @Mitch7Yeti: thats funny mine is the opposite xt dt with codes on my dh and slx dt with elixirs on my trail bike
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: if they need a re bleed monthly they're either broke or you can't bleed them properly. Send them back, all shimano stuff has 2 years warranty or 3 years for XTR. my xt 8000 brakes have been great from day 1.
  • + 1
 @motoxxxer26: I had the 9-46. Wears out too fast in my area. $100 replacement cogs gets old. I spent more on the 9-46 in one season than XX1 10-42 in 3 years. I'm a Shimano trigger fanboy and used to despise SRAM's "clunk chunk" shifting, but Eagle with a 34 is almost as smooth and quick as my XTR trigger. Okay, that's not true, but Eagle doesn't suck like old SRAM.
  • + 2
 @murphburg: The current XT brakes are about 50g lighter each (100g for the set) than the latest Zee brakes... I would imagine the new 4-piston XTs will be a bit heavier, but you never know.
  • + 0
 @sam264: XTs are weak sauce for anything but trail riding
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: It's Pinkbike after all, which is Entish for "pick a brake brand and be a dick about it" It is pretty hilarious how we all (nearly) assume that our Valid Experiences cancel our everyone else's' VEs. Would your Avids magically start to suck if you came and rode my trails? I don't know, as the only Valid Experience I have with other brake brands are the permanent scars from my Juicy period, the photos of me begging the fellows at the Sea Otter Magura booth to make my brakes work for a full weekend and Bad Dreams about changing pads in my 1998 Hayes. (Which still work, though)
  • + 2
 @Kenfire24: He's a 17 year old kid with an 'opinion' lol.
  • + 1
 @dirtworks911: yeah but all you needed was a wider range cassette, not more gears.
  • + 2
 @jrocksdh: slx has tool free lever adjust.
  • + 1
 @duzzi: arguably at some point, with increased range top to bottom, you need more steps in between for smooth shifts. But where is that point in a 10-50 tooth range? 10 gears? 12? 12 will give smoother shifts than 10, but is it really noticeable?
  • + 1
 @FLATLlNE: no it isnt.
  • + 1
 @FLATLlNE: it is, if you are in position to feel it. That is a long climb on fireroad. Once you get a bit tired you everything becomes uncomfortable. People are more affraid of experiencing discomfort than of pain. Once you get on a real trail and do real mountain biky things, smooth gearing ratio change will be quite far down on the list of priorities.
  • + 1
 @adrennan: no? Not arguable at all hey? So then by your statement you could have a 500% range and only 2 or 3 gears and have smooth shifting?
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: yep, smooth shifting, it's not necessary, but it is a "nice to have". Personally I don't place a lot of weight on spending for super crisp shifting. Slx/XT or gx/x1 is as pricey as I'll go. But if you want it and have the cash...by all means, fill your boots.
  • + 1
 @FLATLlNE: everything comes at a cost. 12speeds mean more expensive parts, faster chain wear (11sp is already bad) less crisp shifts. I own both 10 and 11sp 11-42 cassettes and couldn't be more arsed. It's nice to have is a principle that can be applied to anything including tripple chainsets
  • + 1
 @dirtworks911: I just have an 11 speed 11-50 tooth cassette. Almost same gear range as eagle and far far cheaper.
  • + 1
 @FLATLlNE: i guess for how i ride iam always skipping a gear with shifts so it would probably make for a smoother shift feel (not necessarily cadence). I would love to have a 7 speed narrower cassette that had a 500 percent range and wider flanges for stronger rear wheel. but thats just me.
  • + 1
 @a
  • + 1
 @adrennan: PREACH! Although I personally would be fine with 420%...
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Hahaha! I've only had to bleed my back brake once in 4 years with my XT 7000's. Enjoy hanging with the vegans and DOT4 lovers, I'll keep my meat and Mineral Oil.
  • + 1
 @RideTahoe707: XT m8000 was only announced in April of 2015. Pretty sure you haven't had them for 4 years.
  • + 1
 @motoxxxer26: Still a SRAM driver though. Really that driver is the bigger differentiator between SRAM and Shimano, not 1x11 or 1x12.
  • + 58
 Retail for $199? So... $99 on ChainReaction?
  • + 14
 And hardly ever in stock.
  • + 7
 Closer to $95 on jenson or $130 at your LBS.
  • + 2
 U def wna buy brakes from a place u can easily warranty them through.
  • + 7
 @jrocksdh: they're shimano brakes, they hardly ever go wrong, and if they do it's easier/cheaper to replace the caliper/lever than get the replacement part.
  • + 1
 @colourclashing: i agree, mine have been solid, very reliable. I have warrantied them...some shops are better(friendlier) about doing that 4 u.
  • + 55
 Stop, Shimano. Just stop.
  • + 18
 How have the people not recognized this pun for its greatness?
  • + 11
 @WaterBear: Give it a brake...
  • - 7
flag blackthorne (Aug 21, 2017 at 23:37) (Below Threshold)
 @WaterBear: because it's not that great
  • + 1
 We need another piston to help stop these puns.
  • + 4
 @Boardlife69: Now that I have access to the codes, I can blow this pun train into bits
  • + 17
 @WAKIdesigns: Go home Waki, you drank too much Elixir.
  • + 2
 making good puns these days is like piston in the wind!
  • + 31
 What will be the difference between these and Zee?
  • + 13
 Price?
  • + 13
 weight. hopefully Wink
  • + 17
 Power. Although these are a 4 piston, the piston diameter and brake pad service are smaller. Think of these as Zee's little brother.
  • + 7
 What's the different between Zee and Saint?
  • + 114
 @PHeller: spelling
  • + 4
 Thanks for the replies. Interesting about the piston diameter. I have a set of Zees on both my park and trail bikes and TBH never noticed the weight.
@PHeller main (only?) difference I believe is the reach adjustment on Zee levers requires an allen key, while Saints adjustment is tool free. And the gold details.
  • + 52
 Zee price and Zee name.
  • + 7
 The weight is super minimal compared to other components like cranks etc @beast-from-the-east. I'm wondering if they will use the same pad size as before or beef the current XT pads up a little. If they don't, people are gonna be burning through pads faster than Trump burns through White House personal.
  • + 3
 @PHeller: Saint levers are more sleek as well, similar to the xtr and the zee is a similar lever to the last generation xts where you can take the cap above the reservoir off.
  • + 3
 @PHeller: weight and design the saints have a little more swag
  • + 6
 @PHeller: materials for the most part. Saint is all cold forged where Zee is cast which makes the caliper and levers stiffer for better response. In addition the Saint pistons can handle heat better. All of it is a last 5% type of thing though where most people will never notice the difference.
  • - 1
 I wish they would release Zee>XT conversion kit with paint remover and XT sticker
  • - 11
flag dubod22 (Aug 21, 2017 at 22:07) (Below Threshold)
 @beast-from-the-east: The pads are different too. Zee- resin. Saint- metal
  • + 7
 @dubod22: couldn't be more wrong
  • + 5
 I simply added a zee caliper to the front of my all XT bike keeping the XT Lever. now i basicaly have a Saint up front without one component labled as such. works sweet and i wont go back.
  • + 2
 @Luneec: For some time I have had an intention of upgrading my M8000 brakes with Saint/Zee calipers as well. I like the XT levers and since my shifters are I-Spec II changing the complete brake would just create additional complications/costs. What's your experience with this set-up? Any problems?
  • + 2
 Zee/Saint levers move more fluid than XT so you'd have more lever throw.
  • + 1
 @dirtworks911: Or even as Shimano finally bringing out something to compete with Guides? An XC race lightweight 4-pot.
Wink
  • + 5
 @jollyXroger: I have absolutely no Problems with the combination, but then again i have had a SLX Lever to Zee caliper Setup for 3 years. This was created by a shimano race technician after i destroyed the original zee Lever on a race stage.

The more fluid Thing does not seem true the only Problem i ever encountered was due to overfilling the reservior, bleeding the Brakes with out resetting the Pistons correctly.
  • + 1
 @PHeller: brake lever/master cylinder design. almost same design but saint has tool less adjustment and contact adjustment, Zee needs an allen head
  • + 2
 Price and weight. The intention here is to use this four-piston caliper on the front while retaining the two-piston rear caliper. So you'll get 90% of the Saint/Zee power, at not much more than half the price. It's just XT maintaining it's position as the overall best (price/performance/weight/reliability) hydraulic MTB brake there is.
  • + 1
 @Luneec: Same here, front and back.
  • + 3
 @poah: I don't think that's true, all modern shimano mtb hydraulics have the same lever pull ratios. I have XTR levers + Saint callipers on my DH bike, works great.
  • + 4
 Yea it seems some people think there are significant differences between the three brakes, and I'm not so sure. I'd like to know if Shimano ever references the "cold forged" vs "cast" aspect of the Zee vs Saint. The cranks, yes, but I've never seen that mentioned with the calipers. I personally think the Saint/Zee/XT calipers are identical, but the Saints just have some extra machining and polish on the caliper. Also the Saints using a threaded bolt for the pads and perhaps lighter/more blingy hardware, all of which can be transferred to the Saint caliper.
  • + 4
 @NordieBoy: guides are trash. Unless you like doing monthly master cylinder replacements with parts that are constantly sold out.
  • - 1
 Most brakes are trash, buy new ones, replace after max 2 years. If they haven't broken in 3 years, it means you have a fricking lucky pair so never sell them. Ok guys, brace yourselves, a Hope crossfit vegan is chiming any time now to tell us how they have never failed him
  • + 2
 @Altron: Lever pull ratios and the amount of fluid moved are not necessarily dependent on each other. Take any given lever and increase the MC bore size and you've increased the amount of fluid it moves without increasing it's pull ratio.

Also, this is not taking into account Shimano's "Servo Wave" which introduces a different lever to piston curve. So just looking at the "pull ratio" doesn't really tell you what you want to know. Shimanos "Trail" brakes have a very different feel than their "race" brakes.
  • + 1
 Zee is m640 and is a deore lever mated to a saint caliper and anodized a different colour without finned pads like saint. Zee and saint are both very good brakes but the saint will perform marginally better and due to the new lever design and gold detailing they look slightly more refined. For the record I personally love SHIMANO brakes but I've so far managed to break 3 sets of xt m8000's due to the silly phenolic pistons breaking into a million pieces. Nevertheless chain reaction have replaced them each time so I'll keep using them till i kill them and just replace them every year or so. Ps with the way the industry is going, there's no point spending vast amounts of time and effort on getting the best new part as they'll become obsolete in the next six months. Peace. W
  • + 1
 @Will-McCurrach: I wonder if those phenolic pistons are also different between models. If for instance, the lower end stuff has metal pistons as opposed to the plastic ones.
  • + 1
 @PHeller: the cheaper models use metal and the more expensive ones; slx and above use a material similar to an elderly relatives finest tea set. Basically stare at it hard enough and will shatter into millions of pieces. As I said, it's an occurance which means I get a new set every 6 months
W
  • + 16
 Maybe finally E-Bikes are giving back to the sport !?!?
  • + 14
 Lets not get carried away here. This is PB
  • + 1
 Why mess with good thing?
  • + 1
 stick a different logo on charge a different price! its just the same old thing they have been selling for years with a new sticker.
  • + 5
 The look exactly like Saints. My guess is that they are on the verge of releasing some new Saints, so just re-appropriating these.

If 20% increase in power, still not as powerful as Saints...

enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/2
  • + 12
 YES I said I was ready to give up on Sram, ONLY if Shimano XT 4 piston came out; said it for years. I got a set of RS Guides for sale lol
  • + 9
 I'm down. Never in my life have I felt like my brakes were too strong as I'm over 200lb and rollin' on wagon wheels currently. Seems like Zees really got it covered, though, outside a few grams (which means shiz when you're carrying lbs around the middle).
  • + 9
 I bought 165mm XT cranks for my girlfriend's bike in May... don't understand how "Shimano also have a 165mm XT crankset on the way" is supposed to mean.

www.jensonusa.com/Cranksets/Shimano-XT-FC-M8000-Single-Crankarms?cs=Black
  • + 2
 I bought some over a year ago. Thought the same thing..
  • + 1
 The new 165mm crank is a heavier, beefed up version of the xt, designed for e-bikes. It is will be available alongside all the normal xt options.
  • + 3
 Shimano already make 165mm XT M8000 cranks. These are M8050 XT branded E-bike specific cranks that fix to the axle of the E8000 drive unit.
  • + 1
 @Kickmehard: So it's a Zee crankset that says XT on it.
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: the Zee crankset weighs more than a yacht. I'll bet these M8050s are still lighter.
  • + 2
 @MarkGreshon: if they fit to the E8000 drive unit does that mean they're not a standard 2 piece design and won't work on a proper mtb? Forgive my ignorance, no idea how e-bike power units work in conjunction with cranks. Furthermore I fail to see why they need to be any stronger?
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson: They're an 165mm XT branded version of the E-8050 e-bike cranks
  • + 1
 @MarkGreshon: if that's the case then the pic that PB have used is not correct..? What I'm curious about is whether the left hand crank is bonded to a spindle? I'm not that bothered because I found the M8000 crank quite poor but this whole thing just has me curious about how the power unit interfaces with the crank...and whether 'E-bike' cranks will actually fit a mtb.
  • + 1
 as far as I can tell the Shimano e-bike cranks wont work with a standard mtb BB setup...so this whole exercise has been for naught. And e-bikes are to blame. Again.
  • + 10
 Oh sick, they painted the Shimano Zee's sparkly black and put XT on the side. Zee are redonk BTW!
  • + 10
 Will they find a way to inject foam in these brakes?
  • + 5
 You will get spank-ed by asking that question, dear sir
  • + 10
 they make good fishing reels
  • + 8
 more expensive than Saint, and have less brake power and look cheaper? This won't make it into my rig any time soon...
  • + 2
 What? Have you looked at the price of Saint brakes? A set of XTs with this caliper up front would be 90% as powerful and nearly half the price!
  • + 1
 @TheRaven: Well given it's 200 bucks for caliper / lever, yeah I think they are quite expensive. Right now at Jenson a Saint set will go for $180 aprox. and $ 120 for Zee set (eBay).

If you ride anything from trail to AM, there are some key areas where I wouldn't suggest sacrificing power over weight, brakes being one of them.

If you do this type of riding, why would you even consider XT 4 piston brakes when you can get Zee's for less? I'm not saying these brakes are bad (I haven't even tried them), I just think they are meant for those XC guys that have been wanting Zee / Saint power but at XT weight.
  • + 1
 @SK250: Right now at Jenson the XT complete front/rear set goes for $179. MSRP is $299. That's $149 per side. So swap out a 2-piston for a 4-piston and you have a complete set MSRP of $349. MSRP on Saints is just south of $500. Zees MSRP is $400. So yes it's a big savings.

Don't compare MSRP to sale prices. Sale prices tend to be about 70% of MSRP so that $199 lever/caliper set is going to be $130, making an M8000 brakeset with 4-piston front caliper $220 at Jenson. Still cheaper and lighter than Zee, and WAY cheaper (and still lighter) than Saint.
  • + 4
 I still have the 4 pot XT that I upgraded too on my 2000 SWorks FSR. They were on that bike forever, then were moved to wife's bike when I upgrade it to disks. I have never bled them and they are still working as good as they did new. Can't find a better brake.
  • + 7
 Awesome brakes! The only thing i think shimano brakes are missing is a pad contact adjustment.
  • + 11
 Whereas the only thing missing on a SRAM brake is... a sense you are going to stop perhaps?
  • + 1
 @dubod22: You sir have hit the nail on the head. I have SRAM Guide RSC on one of my bikes and they are terrible. I have been tempted to put my very old Hope M4's on said bike.
  • + 6
 Isn't this just the same as the saint/zee? Why are people excited about this?
  • + 2
 No it is a smaller/lighter caliper. Not as much outright power as the Saint/Zee which tend to scare some people.
  • + 5
 @salespunk: My Saints scare me, normally right after riding Guides. I always get a brutal reminder how brakes are supposed to work.
  • + 3
 I was considering Zees on my latest build but ended up with MT5s instead. To be fair, I have a set of MT5s on another bike and love the power and modulation, and price. If there had been an XT four-pot option, I probably would have been on those, but the Maguras are still sweet. Plus the Mags were literally half the price of either.
  • + 5
 What difference do you you see besides the xt being more enduro than zee? I run saints on my all mountain it's not like you notice 20 grams...
  • + 2
 Not much out there that's more reliable than Shimano XT brakes the only thing that comes to that's built present day would be a Honda Civic, these brakes just work & they do it predictably with good power & very little fuss almost to the point of forgetting about them.
  • + 1
 Yep I've been loving XT's for quite a few years now, very reliable, plenty of power for the very steep DH stuff I ride, good modulation and they are always on discount.
  • + 2
 Shimano should do away with their confusing product naming once and for all. Just make XTR-XT-LX-X level gear for XC, Trail, DH:

XTR - DH
XTR - TR
XTR - XC

XT - DH
XT - TR
XT - XC

etc. etc.

A simple Good-Better-Best approach for each discipline. Would be much easier to find the right products for your riding needs.
  • + 2
 Personally I've never found Shimano's naming scheme to be confusing. And to be honest what you're suggesting just sounds like more SKUs for them to not have in stock :\
  • + 1
 @ChubzyWubzy: Like now, there doesn't need to be an complete offer for each riding category- perhaps DH only needs XTR and XT, for example. So, it can be the exact same number or even less than they have now. I've just always failed to see how the names "Saint" and "Zee" related to anything downhill oriented. While the same can be said for "XTR" etc, at least these are far more established within their hierarchy. It would be easy to attach a simple suffix to it which would simplify their marketing efforts (get people to associate XTR with racing, as opposed to splitting it between XTR and Saint).
  • + 1
 @ka-brap: XTR entered the hierarchy after years of XT being at the top, the R is for Race.
  • + 2
 Good news is you can order them from Germany for less than your local shop can order them from Q.

Bad news is they will suck until Shimano does a secret recall on them on three months that no one in the MTB media will acknowledge until three years later.

"Shimano brakes are the best!"
  • + 0
 Yeah, this isn't exciting news. Shimano brakes have bad seals, leaky reservoirs, inconsistent bite, are impossible to bleed perfectly, and in my opinion look outdated and cheap. Those "radiator" find on the caliper body are just decorations. The finned pads are the real deal but are not enough to make Shimano brakes any good
  • - 2
 @LoganKM1982: Shi8mano makes nice fishing rods and reels. They should stuck with them and road bikes... Their brakes sucks just by lack of modulation.
  • + 3
 Shimano, setting their priorities directly to emptying my bank account with 200% accuracy. Me: .........Half way sat down Shimano: "oh here sir is a chair" Me: "I'm going to go broke so comfortably"
  • + 5
 Assuming these will work with my XTR Trail levers?
  • + 3
 Yah definitely. Now to try to break my XTR calipers so I can get these babies...
  • + 1
 These calipers are about expanding the XT family of products, E8000 is XT also. Saint and Zee use the same piston set up but aren't black with XT written on them. As a long time Shimano user - almost 30 years- these are cool, and if i can ever justify replacing my Zee's these XT's will match my matt carbon frame ;-)
  • + 3
 XT Direct Mount Crankset. Yes. This crank has a removable spider. This is way bigger news than the brakes. A reliable crank with DM.
  • + 5
 Meh il stick with my zee's
  • + 2
 I used to love XT til the M8000 grey ones. They have been nothing but a pain with there variable bite point. Got SRAM guides now and they are excellent.
  • + 5
 4 pot XTR coming soon ?
  • + 1
 I'm keeping my hopes up for a "Guide RE" sorta version; XTR levers and XT-4 pistons.
Dammed lever feel and consistency has me addicted!
  • + 2
 4 pot xtr trail please.
  • + 1
 @siderealwall2: i mean pros in the past have had xtr levers mated to saint calipers (jared graves was running this if i recall). if you know how to bleed brakes there is no reason you cant do it.
  • + 1
 @adrennan: Reason here would be cost, convenience, and weight.
  • + 2
 is no one else excited for the return of 4 pot xt brakes, saints are great but no always necessary and they should have better modulation with smaller pistons!
  • + 1
 The orginal 4pots were amazing, I've been lamenting their demise for years... until now! Smile
  • + 4
 why choose these over Zee's?
  • - 6
flag DandelionDan (Aug 21, 2017 at 17:05) (Below Threshold)
 Because they're better
  • + 6
 These XT's come with an adjustable lever and I bet they are a little lighter in weight too. In short, these are more "Enduro" and thats where the money is.
  • - 1
 No reason, maybe price. I bought XT's because my local bike store had them, and they were a good price, and my favourite option. Personally it was a good decision until they pull the, "more power" card for another $120. A baby could figure out "more power" for hydraulic brakes, I'm not paying out the nose because they didn't do it properly in the first place. Personally they should be giving those calipers to current owners.
  • + 1
 I'm on my third set of XTR trails in less than 2 years and just had the caliper replaced under warranty on that set. 2 blown master cylinders on the first two sets. Shimano brakes just aren't that reliable.
  • + 1
 Also have 2 sets of the grimece xt 4 pots ran them for years and just change pads and a couple fluid freshnings best brake ever might try them again with my xt levers just to see
  • + 1
 just get Clarks M2 or 3, done. Spend saved $$$$ on beer. Brake and have fun. Seriously, very impressed with my M2's, got them as a stop-gap.... and would probably only replace them with the new M3, if ever I need to.
  • + 3
 Caliper XT M8020 is $119.99 each, so same price as the SAINT ..... Ah OK .....
  • + 0
 so I'm confused. For everyone excited about this, are you already running 200mm rotors on your trail bike and not getting enough braking power? If not, why would you want this instead of a larger rotor?

Bigger rotors are cheaper, probably have more heat dissipation, easier to set up than and maintain than a 4 pot caliper (ugh).
  • + 1
 i agree with you more or less. depending where you ride 20mm of clearance could save your rotor from rock strikes but that is the only major thing. i have 180mm rotors and saints for reference.
  • + 1
 Aren't quite a few single crown forks only warrantied for up to 180 rotors?
  • + 2
 Oh man, count me in! I have M8000s right now and love them and would totally upgrade to a pair of 4 pistons, especially as I look to add another bike to the stable.
  • + 3
 Gonna change out the calipers on my trail bike so hard...
  • + 2
 @WaterBear: Yup, my Nomad is going to get itself a nice new pair of pinchy stoppers in a few months.
  • + 1
 @WaterBear: if you put these on it wont be a trail bike anymore. it will be full enduro.
  • + 3
 The price of a Hope Tech3 V4/E4 without the quality and power.

Bravo Shimano !
  • + 0
 To all the people complaining on why Shimano introduces a 4-pot XT caliper which would be pretty close power-wise to a Zee, didn't you think that may be Shimano is preparing to come up with a new, more powerful and crazier Zee/Saint in order to shut everyone's claims that the Magura MT7 is more powerful??? Wink
  • + 2
 I will literally never understand why everyone doesn't just use Hope brakes...
  • + 4
 Price?
  • + 3
 @barbasma: These are $200 per brake dude!
  • + 1
 @deadmeat25: But only for a while, they will be 100 a side with rotors soon enough, XT's price always takes a dive but the product is always good, never get why they get so heavily discounted as I have been using XT's for years now and find them reliable and powerful.
  • + 1
 @bigburd: Hope V4's are under £150 all the time, the E4's are even cheaper, it's a no brainer.
  • + 1
 Also, it's sad that it takes eBikes for Shimano to make something new. How long has it been since Saint has been updated? Still no carbon cranks either. No innovation at all
  • + 0
 LAME! Go with saints and save yourself $100. Unless your a weight weenie and can feel the extra weight of a weed getting stuck in your derailleur. But I'm sure the prices will come down quite a bit in the first year.
  • + 1
 If I try Shimano Brakes anytime ( I hate them) I would install the Saint calipers instead of these XT, the Saint are already tested in WC and cost 20 USD less each!
  • + 3
 So, my question is "when does the new Zees and Saints are coming out?".
  • + 5
 That's a hell of a question.
  • + 1
 @panaphonic: Haha, superb!
  • + 1
 6 pot saintsssssss with 220mm rotors
  • + 1
 Yes! Great ! Goodnews! Make your inconsistent bite point of your xt brakes even worst with a higher volume caliper! Great ! Thanks! Diserve a 13!


For f@@@@kcs sake!
  • + 0
 I'm glad anyone is mentioning this. That and FOUR pistons to leak, that's twice the leaks! Yay!
  • + 2
 I just brought some mt5's last week to replace my M8000's. If they had released this earlier I would be all over it.
  • + 1
 MT5's will still be a better brake.
  • + 1
 Dirty cheap Saint equivalent! Currently running Saint on the big bike and XT8000/Zee callipers on the trail bike, xts way more powerful it seems
  • + 1
 Backwards compatible my ass, as long as levers run the same fluid they will work. people use guide levers on codes and mix-and-match Shimano stuff. straight up marketing.
  • + 3
 More pistons, obviously more better.
  • + 3
 What does backwards compatible mean.?
  • + 2
 Face down ass up that's the way we like to F*#%?
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: so what's advantages of that,still not sure what it mean.So the hose comes in from the back,instead of down the chain/seat stay.
  • + 4
 It means you can use this new brake caliper with the older/current master (lever), rotor, hose, brake fluid etc. Unlike what @Boardlife69 is suggesting, it doesn't necessarily mean the brake hose can be connected to bleed nipple.
  • + 2
 @vinay: cheers,
  • + 1
 @jase111171: one of the huge advantages of shimano hydraulic braking systems is that you can use any caliper and any lever from any generation and it should be compatible. it means you can cannibalize old systems to work with new ones. its quite nice actually - makes for some interesting and cool brake setups. I have the new carbon/magnesium XTR race levers on M810 saint calipers and i f**kin love it.
  • + 2
 @cuban-b: yeh,I've run xts for many years now,just never heard the terminology "backwards compatible"learn something new everyday eh
  • + 1
 These look pretty nice! I hope they work with the non-servo wave levers XT currently work with, for good feathering/modulation.
  • + 3
 I hope to see XTR Trail go to 4 piston......
  • + 1
 Slx offer more than enough power for trail riding for less than half of that price
  • + 1
 I will refuse to sell them if your not already running a 203 ice tech rotor.
  • + 1
 Glad to see these come back around...I had them back in the day and was the best stopping brake ever!
  • + 1
 I still run the old 755's on my bikes, you can't beat the power and modulation of the 4 pot xt brakes!
  • + 1
 I had 755 calipers with 775 levers. The servo wave lever made the brakes very strong
  • + 1
 You bet your arse I will wait for these brakes instead of ordering standard XT brakes for my 2018 Trek Stache 7!
  • + 2
 No word on BB spacing on the 165mm crank?
  • + 1
 Did they just change the logo from Zee to XT? looks identical... but who cares there both great brakes!
  • + 2
 Cool. do they use the same pads as current xt?
  • + 1
 Good question. Why the down votes? Am I missing something?
  • + 1
 @WaterBear: 4 piston Shimano brakes like Zee and Saint use a wider pad, this prolly accepts those
  • + 1
 @MmmBones: I think the caliper is a little bit smaller than the saints, so I hooooppe its not a new pad size.
  • + 2
 @YouHadMeAtDrugs: ya my 1st thought was isnt a saint 4 piston so whats difference?
  • + 2
 So does anybody have an easy way to break my calipers and nothing else?
  • + 5
 Hammer.
  • + 2
 via giant iceberg in the north atlantic and years on the bottom of the ocean until a submersible with a mechanical claw arm finds it. Oh, wait, you said "easy."
  • + 1
 Just don't bleed them every
  • + 4
 Yup, I just did by mistake. I put new pads in, but the piston's weren't returning enough and couldn't get enough adjustment. So I decided to pump out the pistons a bit without the pads in, so I could clean and grease them. It doesn't take much to pump them out to far. Then they won't go back in at all, and since its a one piece calliper, you need to order a new one. So juts take your pads out and pump the leaver like hell, then they are ruined. your welcome
  • + 1
 @pedaler: Usually that means your piston is cracked, I've seen several "crunchy " pistons.
  • + 1
 my feels are Zee just felt more pronoun fluid and now identifies as XT but with extra moving parts
  • + 2
 Okay but Hope are making a 6 piston Wink
  • + 1
 So did Grimeca, didn't they?
  • + 1
 I've zee and are fantastic If these are lighter... good Shimano has always strong reduction price online
  • + 3
 Wait, what year is it?
  • + 3
 we've come full circle. back then, shimano made a 4-pot XT in order to fill a need for a dh brake. now they make a 4-pot XT in order to fill a need for the non-dh crowd.
  • + 2
 2002
  • + 0
 1984
  • + 3
 #Magura MT5/6/7/8
  • + 2
 MT5!! bleeding isn't as easy as shimano, but once it's done their levers feel so good.
  • + 3
 wait for 8 piston.
  • + 2
 I don't know what brand this is, I emailed Magura, and they said it's not theirs: i.imgur.com/MUV2mZD.png
  • + 4
 I want a 3 piston brake, fuck even numbers
  • + 1
 You kno your a wanker when you worry about how much your brakes weigh
  • + 1
 Damn! I just bought mt5s!!! Why u do dis
  • + 1
 Should have focused on making brakes with a consistent bite point first!
  • + 1
 Will the free stroke adjuster actually do anything on these?
  • + 1
 Sweet... if my M755's ever die I'll look into these..!
  • + 1
 Or have extra sticky pistons...
  • + 1
 Finally! An direct alternative to my Guides
  • - 1
 There are objective measures of brake power / torque out there and Guides are about the same as XT. Unless you think modulation will improve with new calipers.
  • + 1
 @WaterBear: I am hoping for improved modulation. I've used both brakes and ended up with guides on my most recent build for that reason
  • + 2
 M820 .. they've always been there. Wink
I've run Saints on my DH and trail bikes for a few years. I prefer the feel of the 4-piston shimano brake; better modulation, and tons of power. Shimano is going to sell a million of these.
  • + 1
 @WaterBear: except guides are spongy...at least any i've used. Saints for me...
  • + 1
 @RMSlayer50: I meant that as a joke, but I hope it works out.

@nvranka: Don't get me wrong, I prefer Shimano. No more corroded levers.
  • + 1
 I have tried, seen, and tested several dozen guides. Some bled to race-spec, some left in the garage for months. Never once enjoyed the feeling on the trail or in the parking lot. Recently I have seen several fail at the gasket, and a few levers disengaging from the piston. Have seen even more get "sticky" mid-run. The only brakes SRAM makes that hold a candle to XTR are the Code RSC's, and they come in far more expensive and heavy. I will admit that the warranty for sram is alot better than shimano.
  • + 6
 @siderealwall2: SRAM just have more experience handling warranty claims than Shimano... so that is to be expected :p
  • + 1
 can I put this in my Honda?
  • + 2
 Rebranded saints?
  • + 1
 But I already have 165mm XT cranks :-/
  • + 1
 Direct mount?
  • + 1
 what about 785 levers no dice?
  • + 5
 I have zee calipers and 785 levers/master cylinders with no issues so I bet this will work
  • + 1
 My bet is that as long as the same banjo fitting works, it's compatible.
  • + 1
 As far as I'm aware all shimano levers are compatible (within a current generation). Plenty of people running mixed setups (zee/xt mostly) right now
  • + 1
 All Shimano levers and callipers are cross compatible, all the way back to XT M755 up to now. There are some slight differences in pad clearance at the rotor with some combinations, but you can put Saint on your road disc bike if you want.
  • + 1
 yeahh...this stuff for UCI World cup DH fantasy contest ^.^
  • + 1
 Fodasse
  • + 0
 Will they leak oil twice as fast as the two-pot ones?
  • + 2
 Yes, and you won't be able to repair them either.
  • + 1
 @deadmeat25: as usual with Shimano, someone else has to clean their mistakes: www.ebay.ca/itm/222595765877
  • + 1
 Nice! About time!!!!
  • - 3
 @sweet-bike: How did I get downvoted for saying the pads are different on a Zee and Saint? When I researched them both, I was informed that the pads were different.

It's bloody mob rule on here!
  • + 1
 Sick!
  • + 0
 Wonder if the 165mm cranks will be 83mm BB compatible...
  • + 1
 Yes pls
  • + 0
 Its just a SAINT/Zee caliper.

Like what Sram did with the Code.
  • + 1
 yes. the m755 reborn.
  • - 1
 How much less modulation 20% ?
  • + 0
 Holy shirt!!
  • - 1
 Stupid prices.
  • + 8
 Lol, not like we ever actually have to pay that.
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