Shimano XT Di2 - Double Header Review
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Shimano began using batteries to power some of their high-end drivetrains over seven years ago when they first introduced Dura-Ace Di2 for the road. That was eventually followed up with an electronic drivetrain for us dirty mountain bikers, XTR Di2, in 2014. The latter cost around $2,800 USD for a complete 2x11 group, which is enough coin to buy a decent entry-level bike, one that even comes with a drivetrain, albeit controlled by silly steel cables. XT Di2 costs roughly half as much depending on how you configure it, with a 1x11 setup coming in at around $1,300 USD. Yeah, that's still a load of money—I could live in Central America on $1,300 for a long time—but it's at least a bit more realistic for some riders to consider.
XT Di2 is, for all intents and purposes, the working man's electronic drivetrain. It should function to within a shift cable's width of its twice as costly XTR Di2 brother, and it sure as hell better offer some sort of advantage over the now "antiquated" traditional XT drivetrain.
So, does it? To find out, I spent far too long installing an XT Di2 1x11 drivetrain onto my bike in December, and Vernon Felton had the same thing but with two chainrings (argh, a front derailleur!) bolted to his own bike. Two testers, two different setups on two different bikes, and four solid months of use throughout the wettest, nastiest winter that we can remember.
So, does it? To find out, I spent far too long installing an XT Di2 1x11 drivetrain onto my bike in December, and Vernon Felton had the same thing but with two chainrings (argh, a front derailleur!) bolted to his own bike. Two testers, two different setups on two different bikes, and four solid months of use throughout the wettest, nastiest winter that we can remember.
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It'd be easy to add another thousand (or ten thousand) words pouring over all the details of what makes XT Di2 tick, and while that's usually how I roll, I'll spare you the essay by sending you elsewhere on Pinkbike. You can read all the tech mumbo-jumbo in Mike Kazimer and Vernon Felton's 'First Ride' piece from back in November of last year, or if you're really keen, you can get the lowdown on the history of Di2 in the dirt by reading RC's comprehensive early look at the first XTR Di2 group back in 2015.
XT Di2 can be had in either a single or double-ring configuration, and just like the more expensive XTR version, shifting speed and style can be customized to the rider's preference. Shimano's app can be connected wirelessly, or via a USB cable to your computer, and it allows riders to tailor the shifting to their liking. You can speed up or slow down the shifting, switch the function of the shift levers, and even enable Synchro Shifting that sees one shifter control both the front and rear derailleur.
All neat stuff, but the question that really needs answering here is if there's actually an advantage to letting a computer and tiny motors do the work for you instead of ratchet wheels with cables controlled by your thumbs. I'm a lover of any interesting technology, even electronics, but the product needs to do something better, doesn't it? Let's find out if it does.
Installation and Setup
Levy's Take:
• Drivetrain: XT Di2 one-by
• Bike: Rocky Mountain Element 990 RSL BC Edition
• Duration: early December to mid-April
Are you prone to fits of rage? Or do you have the calmness of a sloth high on laughing grass? Those who fall into the former category may want to put on a soothing nature soundtrack with rain noises and birds making bird sounds before jumping into this job; it's not nearly the simple task that I was lead to believe. Sure, bolting the bits onto your bike and plugging the wires in isn't difficult—this is actually easier than installing a traditional drivetrain as there's no farting around with cable tension to get it just right—but it's the damn battery, junction box, and rat's nest of wires that nearly gave me a stroke.
You having a stroke or not might come down to whether your frame was designed to accept Di2, and it's not a homerun even if it is. To be fair, a lot of bikes will require you to remove the fork and slip your bubble-wrapped Di2 battery and junction box into the downtube, so that's what I did... only to have one of the wires pull out, forcing me to start over. I did eventually end up getting everything jammed in there only to have the battery rattle loose from its bubble wrap cocoon during the next ride and slide down towards the bottom bracket. And that's when one of my eyes started to twitch all on its own.
In the end, I swallowed my pride and strapped my lithium-ion foe to the side of the bottle cage. Ghetto, yes, but it took all of three minutes, and I avoided having a nervous breakdown, which is nice.
Battery battle aside, XT Di2 is simple to get running once you have everything installed and connected. There's zero cable tension adjustment because, well, there is no steel cable, and the brain in the control box figures everything out for you. I wish the rest of my life were like that.
• Drivetrain: XT Di2 one-by
• Bike: Rocky Mountain Element 990 RSL BC Edition
• Duration: early December to mid-April
Are you prone to fits of rage? Or do you have the calmness of a sloth high on laughing grass? Those who fall into the former category may want to put on a soothing nature soundtrack with rain noises and birds making bird sounds before jumping into this job; it's not nearly the simple task that I was lead to believe. Sure, bolting the bits onto your bike and plugging the wires in isn't difficult—this is actually easier than installing a traditional drivetrain as there's no farting around with cable tension to get it just right—but it's the damn battery, junction box, and rat's nest of wires that nearly gave me a stroke.
You having a stroke or not might come down to whether your frame was designed to accept Di2, and it's not a homerun even if it is. To be fair, a lot of bikes will require you to remove the fork and slip your bubble-wrapped Di2 battery and junction box into the downtube, so that's what I did... only to have one of the wires pull out, forcing me to start over. I did eventually end up getting everything jammed in there only to have the battery rattle loose from its bubble wrap cocoon during the next ride and slide down towards the bottom bracket. And that's when one of my eyes started to twitch all on its own.
In the end, I swallowed my pride and strapped my lithium-ion foe to the side of the bottle cage. Ghetto, yes, but it took all of three minutes, and I avoided having a nervous breakdown, which is nice.
Battery battle aside, XT Di2 is simple to get running once you have everything installed and connected. There's zero cable tension adjustment because, well, there is no steel cable, and the brain in the control box figures everything out for you. I wish the rest of my life were like that.
Vernon's Take:
• Drivetrain: XT Di2 two-by
• Bike: Pivot Switchblade
• Duration: early December to mid-April
Shimano kitted out my Switchblade test bike with the 2x version of XT. I opted to control both my front and rear derailleurs with a single (right-hand) shifter. Installing the front derailleur took all of two seconds. Wiring the whole system up, however, took longer. A lot longer. Shimano’s Joe Lawwill did all the hard work, I helpfully sat around and made jokes while he snaked miles of wire through the frame.
The installation should have been a breeze. Pivot Cycles’ notoriously Type-A founder, Chris Cocalis, sent over a wiring schematic. What’s more, his bike features a very tidy port for the battery, so we didn’t have to stuff the battery in a top tube or fork steerer or stoop to strapping it to the side of the downtube with duct tape and baling twine (What’s up, Levy?). The Di2 battery went in easy. Teasing all that limp wiring through the down tube and chainstay? That proved more of a pain in the ass—even for a seasoned wrench and, yes, even with Park Tool’s handy-dandy magnet tool. The phrase, Like sticking an oyster into a slot machine comes to mind. Going wireless would be a boon.
Snaking a steel cable through some housing is, no doubt about it, a whole lot easier. To be fair, however, once those Di2 wires are tucked away in the frame, they are not likely to need replacing for years. In my mucky conditions, on the other hand, I’ll swap out a cable once or twice a year.
Once the wiring was done, it was time to adjust the shifting. It’s absolutely painless. Pushing the Mode button on the visual display sets you into Maintenance Mode. From there, you select which derailleur you want to adjust and then you use the shifter paddles to fine-tune the shifting.
• Drivetrain: XT Di2 two-by
• Bike: Pivot Switchblade
• Duration: early December to mid-April
Shimano kitted out my Switchblade test bike with the 2x version of XT. I opted to control both my front and rear derailleurs with a single (right-hand) shifter. Installing the front derailleur took all of two seconds. Wiring the whole system up, however, took longer. A lot longer. Shimano’s Joe Lawwill did all the hard work, I helpfully sat around and made jokes while he snaked miles of wire through the frame.
The installation should have been a breeze. Pivot Cycles’ notoriously Type-A founder, Chris Cocalis, sent over a wiring schematic. What’s more, his bike features a very tidy port for the battery, so we didn’t have to stuff the battery in a top tube or fork steerer or stoop to strapping it to the side of the downtube with duct tape and baling twine (What’s up, Levy?). The Di2 battery went in easy. Teasing all that limp wiring through the down tube and chainstay? That proved more of a pain in the ass—even for a seasoned wrench and, yes, even with Park Tool’s handy-dandy magnet tool. The phrase, Like sticking an oyster into a slot machine comes to mind. Going wireless would be a boon.
Snaking a steel cable through some housing is, no doubt about it, a whole lot easier. To be fair, however, once those Di2 wires are tucked away in the frame, they are not likely to need replacing for years. In my mucky conditions, on the other hand, I’ll swap out a cable once or twice a year.
Once the wiring was done, it was time to adjust the shifting. It’s absolutely painless. Pushing the Mode button on the visual display sets you into Maintenance Mode. From there, you select which derailleur you want to adjust and then you use the shifter paddles to fine-tune the shifting.
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XT Di2 on the Trail
Levy's Take:
The first thing I took note of is how the Di2 shifter feels just right in every possible way. The adjustable paddles are exactly where I want them, and both the throw and the tactile feel is spot on—if I were blindfolded and had never seen a Di2 system before, I might even tell you that the positive 'ka-chung' of each shift surely comes from a steel cable being pulled through black housing and that there are no servo motors or electricity involved. Shimano has clearly strived to keep the mechanical feel of their, ahem, mechanical system, and aside from the oddly satisfying ''zzzzt'' of the tiny motor doing its job, they definitely succeeded.
How it feels notwithstanding, Di2 doesn't actually shift any quicker than a mechanical drivetrain, and dumping a bunch of gears in a hurry to get to a larger cog actually takes more time to do than with Shimano's standard XT drivetrain. While a mechanical XT shifter can jump up through four cogs with the full push of a thumb paddle, XT Di2 is a one-click, one-cog kind of operation. Sure, you can hold the paddle down and Di2 will run up through to the largest cog, but the action isn't as fast as smashing up through the gears with a mechanical setup.
But while XT Di2 might not move the chain with quite the same urgency, there is absolutely zero smashing involved. Quite the opposite, actually, with it offering metronome-like precision for Every. Single. Shift. You and I both know how to shift, of course, but I think we've forgotten that it certainly does take some know-how, especially from drivetrain to drivetrain and knowing just how far to push the thumb paddle. This is basic stuff, yes, but stick a neophyte on your bike, point them towards some sharply undulating terrain, and they're going to f*ck it up. With Di2, however, you literally can't do anything wrong; pushing the paddles will do exactly the same thing every time, no matter what. It's next-level consistency, really, which is impressive given that the bike was abused, often covered in a week's worth of mud and grime, and pressure washed with the kind of recklessness that can only come from someone actively trying to trouble Di2. But I couldn't and now I feel a bit defeated; like the damn robot has beaten me.
The first thing I took note of is how the Di2 shifter feels just right in every possible way. The adjustable paddles are exactly where I want them, and both the throw and the tactile feel is spot on—if I were blindfolded and had never seen a Di2 system before, I might even tell you that the positive 'ka-chung' of each shift surely comes from a steel cable being pulled through black housing and that there are no servo motors or electricity involved. Shimano has clearly strived to keep the mechanical feel of their, ahem, mechanical system, and aside from the oddly satisfying ''zzzzt'' of the tiny motor doing its job, they definitely succeeded.
How it feels notwithstanding, Di2 doesn't actually shift any quicker than a mechanical drivetrain, and dumping a bunch of gears in a hurry to get to a larger cog actually takes more time to do than with Shimano's standard XT drivetrain. While a mechanical XT shifter can jump up through four cogs with the full push of a thumb paddle, XT Di2 is a one-click, one-cog kind of operation. Sure, you can hold the paddle down and Di2 will run up through to the largest cog, but the action isn't as fast as smashing up through the gears with a mechanical setup.
But while XT Di2 might not move the chain with quite the same urgency, there is absolutely zero smashing involved. Quite the opposite, actually, with it offering metronome-like precision for Every. Single. Shift. You and I both know how to shift, of course, but I think we've forgotten that it certainly does take some know-how, especially from drivetrain to drivetrain and knowing just how far to push the thumb paddle. This is basic stuff, yes, but stick a neophyte on your bike, point them towards some sharply undulating terrain, and they're going to f*ck it up. With Di2, however, you literally can't do anything wrong; pushing the paddles will do exactly the same thing every time, no matter what. It's next-level consistency, really, which is impressive given that the bike was abused, often covered in a week's worth of mud and grime, and pressure washed with the kind of recklessness that can only come from someone actively trying to trouble Di2. But I couldn't and now I feel a bit defeated; like the damn robot has beaten me.
Vernon's Take:
Again, I was running both derailleurs off the right-hand shifter, which frees up room for a dropper-post lever on the left-hand side of my bars. The basic idea behind Synchro shift is that, in any multi-ring drivetrain, there are a bunch of redundant gear combinations—many of them awkward combos that have the chain running at crazy angles. Synchro shift basically eliminates the shittier, duplicative gear combos, while affording you the full gear range of a dual-ring setup. Sweet! It accomplishes that feat by automatically shifting the front derailleur as you run up and down the cassette. Wait! What the f*ck?
Automatic front shifting? That sounded crazy to me, as if Shimano's computer was suddenly calling the shots. I mean, what if that computer and I disagreed at a key point in the ride when I didn’t want to be talking to a computer at all?
Amazingly, Synchro mode works brilliantly. You aren’t surprised that a front shift is going to happen because the system beeps at you when you are one rear derailleur shift away from the front derailleur bursting into life. Moreover, front derailleur shifts are natural and smooth, even under heavy pedal loads. I prefer the simplicity of a 1x drivetrain, but if I used a front derailleur, I’d only run it in Synchro. Rear shifting has proven flawless from day one. After about five rides, however, the front derailleur began struggling to hoist the chain from the small to large chainring. On downshifts (and particularly chunky descents) I was also starting to drop the chain onto the bottom bracket.
Solution? I simply entered Maintenance Mode and used my shifter paddle to reposition the front derailleur; that remedied the weak shifts to the big ring. Front and rear shifts have been perfect ever since. I still encounter the occasional dropped chain on particularly fast and technical descents; frequency-wise, it's about par for the course for a front derailleur system. After four years of running 1x drivetrains, however, I have little tolerance for that kind of thing. So, while I am impressed as hell by Synchro, I’d personally opt for the single-ring version of this group.
Again, I was running both derailleurs off the right-hand shifter, which frees up room for a dropper-post lever on the left-hand side of my bars. The basic idea behind Synchro shift is that, in any multi-ring drivetrain, there are a bunch of redundant gear combinations—many of them awkward combos that have the chain running at crazy angles. Synchro shift basically eliminates the shittier, duplicative gear combos, while affording you the full gear range of a dual-ring setup. Sweet! It accomplishes that feat by automatically shifting the front derailleur as you run up and down the cassette. Wait! What the f*ck?
Automatic front shifting? That sounded crazy to me, as if Shimano's computer was suddenly calling the shots. I mean, what if that computer and I disagreed at a key point in the ride when I didn’t want to be talking to a computer at all?
Amazingly, Synchro mode works brilliantly. You aren’t surprised that a front shift is going to happen because the system beeps at you when you are one rear derailleur shift away from the front derailleur bursting into life. Moreover, front derailleur shifts are natural and smooth, even under heavy pedal loads. I prefer the simplicity of a 1x drivetrain, but if I used a front derailleur, I’d only run it in Synchro. Rear shifting has proven flawless from day one. After about five rides, however, the front derailleur began struggling to hoist the chain from the small to large chainring. On downshifts (and particularly chunky descents) I was also starting to drop the chain onto the bottom bracket.
Solution? I simply entered Maintenance Mode and used my shifter paddle to reposition the front derailleur; that remedied the weak shifts to the big ring. Front and rear shifts have been perfect ever since. I still encounter the occasional dropped chain on particularly fast and technical descents; frequency-wise, it's about par for the course for a front derailleur system. After four years of running 1x drivetrains, however, I have little tolerance for that kind of thing. So, while I am impressed as hell by Synchro, I’d personally opt for the single-ring version of this group.
Shimano used to get slagged for not providing riders with options, but Di2 opens up all sorts of options. In my case, I could choose to use two shifters, or just one, to operate both front and rear derailleurs. Riders can also use their computer, iPad or smart phone to tweak shifting speeds and, if you are running a front derailleur, to adjust the points in the shifting process when the front derailleur kicks in (in Synchro mode) and does its magic.
While I personally prefer the simplicity (and lack of dropped chains) of a single-ring drivetrain, I'll readily admit that the front derailleur has achieved its apex of performance when operated in Synchro mode. You essentially use a single shifter, just as you would with a 1x set-up, and the front derailleur kicks into life at the right moments, to provide you with a wider gear range. Moreover, it does the auto shifts magnificently well. I had to ride it (a lot) to believe it.
Reliabilty
Levy's Take:
Nothing to gripe about here. I've had the XT Di2 system on my Rocky Mountain Element 990 RSL BC Edition since December, enough time to completely wear out the stock Shimano chain, and have had absolutely zero reliability concerns. No amount of water has been able to give the electronics any trouble, and nothing has disconnected since I managed to sort out the install. Hell, I only just had to charge the battery a few days ago, after roughly four months of use. A typical B.C. winter and spring will usually see me change a few shift cables in that time, depending on the bike, but the XT Di2 has made exactly zero fuss.
Nothing to gripe about here. I've had the XT Di2 system on my Rocky Mountain Element 990 RSL BC Edition since December, enough time to completely wear out the stock Shimano chain, and have had absolutely zero reliability concerns. No amount of water has been able to give the electronics any trouble, and nothing has disconnected since I managed to sort out the install. Hell, I only just had to charge the battery a few days ago, after roughly four months of use. A typical B.C. winter and spring will usually see me change a few shift cables in that time, depending on the bike, but the XT Di2 has made exactly zero fuss.
Vernon's Take:
A well-maintained cable-driven derailleur is dead simple to operate, but I will concede this: With Di2, Shimano has created a system that does not degrade in performance—no matter how much you abuse it. That’s no small thing. Mud, water, general mean-spiritedness… none of it fazed this robot version of Shimano XT. Push on the paddles and you are rewarded with a firm click and a perfect shift. Every. Damn. Time. While I was initially concerned about battery life (the front derailleur uses more juice than the rear derailleur), I squeezed in two months of riding before I needed a recharge. You won't suddenly lose power out on the trail; it's a non-issue.
A well-maintained cable-driven derailleur is dead simple to operate, but I will concede this: With Di2, Shimano has created a system that does not degrade in performance—no matter how much you abuse it. That’s no small thing. Mud, water, general mean-spiritedness… none of it fazed this robot version of Shimano XT. Push on the paddles and you are rewarded with a firm click and a perfect shift. Every. Damn. Time. While I was initially concerned about battery life (the front derailleur uses more juice than the rear derailleur), I squeezed in two months of riding before I needed a recharge. You won't suddenly lose power out on the trail; it's a non-issue.
Pinkbike's Take:
 | On the one hand, the XT Di2 drivetrain offers an atomic clock-level of precision and consistency, something that I don't think a traditional setup can ever match. Cable operated drivetrains have, for the most part, plateaued as far as shift performance goes, and there's not much to complain about, regardless of if it's an NX, SLX, XTR, or Eagle group—Shimano has shown that the only way to raise the bar is to employ electronics. But while XT Di2's consistent shifting performance is impressive, I find it hard to justify the group's cost when I could get a lighter, easier to install, and much less expensive standard XT drivetrain and call it done. No Di2 for me, thank you very much. |
| I’ve come away entirely impressed by XT Di2's durability, precision, and adjustability. This group is nothing shy of a modern marvel. But does going electric actually improve my ride? That is the question. For me, the answer is “Not really—not the way that suspension forks or disc brakes fundamentally changed my rides for the better.” Shimano has lowered the price of dirt-ready Di2—props to them for that—but when a Di2 system costs more than its equivalent, cable-driven counterpart, it needs to bring much bigger benefits to the table. Regular "old" cable-driven XT is already damn good to begin with. Is Di2 impressive? Yes. Is it necessary? Not for me. |
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182 Comments
Awesome review; unbiased, witty, and practical; keep them coming guys!
Shimano HAD to be aware of how this review would turn out. Great reliability and effective shifting, but not worth it price-wise. For them, that's still a win, because, again, for their target here, $ is not an issue.
Great honest review, great to see Shimano out pushing the technological limits, just a good article overall.
Reckon most people will be all over electrogears (Shim or Sram) once the price hits SLX level, where the question becomes "do I spends $500 on SLX Di2 or $500 on XT mech?"
My choice was between XTR mech vs XT Di2 and I don't regret the electronics a single bit. As both reviews point out, it's the consistency and predictability of the shifting action that sets it apart from mechanical gears and that's a major concern for XCM and stage racers.
Battery life it's not even a discussion point. I had to charge mine once since November.
Anyways love the format of the review!
Definitely need 2.7mm cables to improve shifting performance. Of course you'd need a larger housing to go with that. And oh, while you're at it, you'll need a new frame with internal guides that can accommodate said housing.
[it's sarcasm, but I still feel dirty typing that]
Go Mike and Vernon.
I'd describe it as faster in the cognitive load sense - as that's the most important. I'm sure that it would be possible to get the time difference really small with tuning the controls, but the fact that your brain is at some level tracking the number of times a repetitive task is performed feels more taxing than just doing one thumb movement until the right tactile feedback is achieved. So, I'd say that the outright timed 'speed' is nowhere near as important as 'how fast can I stop having to think about the drivetrain of my bike and worry about the change in the trail that has convinced me to use a different gear' - and in that regard the cable system still holds an edge: importantly an edge significant enough to make riders including myself not want to part with the already really dialed in standard XT groupset.
@cmanser: The M8000 XT has the double upshift capability as well, once again something that I could quite contentedly live without, but having experienced it and realizing that it's a tiny cost difference above stuff without that feature, I'd continue to buy stuff with that ability.
I've been on frigid death marches where you lose the feelings in your fingers. With Di2 you don't need that fine tactile feedback to make a crisp shift.
And BTW while the XT shifters are better ergonamically, the R600 shifters can shift much much faster. How-fast-can-you-tap-the-spacebar-of-your-keyboard kind of fast.
- More ramps on the cassette along which to shift up and down.
- Fewer cogs (and bigger steps in between) so you're quicker in about the right gear.
- Smaller rear wheel so the cassette rotates faster.
- ...
But yeah as it is, the cassette determines how fast your gear changes are. Same with most internal gear boxes (hub or frame mounted). The cogs still need to to synchronize. Actuating the shifter merely pre-loads it. NuVinci could be quicker but that is typically too heavy for conventional mountainbikes (though I think Ellsworth has used them in the past). It is not about how fast shifting is though, it is about removing friction between shifter and mech. We've seen it all now. Cable actuated is quite common. A few companies tried hydraulic shifting. Shimano had pneumatic shifting for a while (Airlines), it was only a matter of time that they're going to implement an electronic signal between shifter and mech.
That 1:1 ratio, I thought it was so that the cables and system could get stickier and dirtier and still shift reasonably fine. Shimano needed to be more precise. That changed with their 10sp groups (so now they pull more cable too). But yeah, this is what I liked Sram for at the time. The cable for my 9sp X9 short cage rear mech is probably nine years old now but it still shifts reasonably well. Every once in a while it gets too inaccurate and think of replacing it. But then I add some lube and the cable does fine for another while.
I ride 4-7 days a week and was replacing the rear cable about every 3 months, even had two cables break on the trail. I've been riding 25 plus yrs and never experienced this problem.
Just a guess but on my ride (Fuel EX) I was thinking might be the DW suspension causing it, who knows?
I even used teflon inner housing over the section of cable where it was fraying, just cut through it after a ride or two.
SRAM - Wireless Etap for MTB please and thank you! I'll take the Gripshift version
My next build (Bronson) will be all di2 for sure!
As for battery life, it last so long that it's not even an issue like Vernon said.
So for me :
- road bike = yes
- mountain bike = no
bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/components11/city---comfort/alfine-di21.html
Besides, how can I spit out my vituperation at e-bikes if I'm also going to use an external power source to enhance my bicycle?
Even tho i admit that mountainbiking has become an expensive pastime I'm not surprised.
If SRAM can sell a big range 1x system (eagle ofc) for this amount of money I think shimano can sell a complete electronic system for roughly the same.
However I DO like to see this becoming more affordable.
www.pinkbike.com/news/startups-300-do-it-yourself-wireless-shifting-sea-otter-2017.html
It's impressive and works well, but what's the point?
DI2 is the best 4-head, high-resolution, VHS VCR ever made. Nobody cares about front derailleurs and Vern's review reminds us why we got rid of them.
Shimano is stuck in 2005 and falling further behind. Why anyone would buy this over Eagle is beyond me,
Plus it has wires! It's either obsolete next year when the wireless comes out or Shimano is once again stuck in the past. It's 2017, there is no reason for wires!
The payoff is faster install time. To me that's something that saves me an hour every 4-5 years, at the cost of having to charge the batteries every week, and knowing that a time will come when I'm near some radio source that causes it not to work (like when I ride past the airport and my wireless computer skitzes out).
The main benefit of wireless in general is portability; that doesn't really apply on a bike.
The cost is a real issue, and since we're all on 1x now, the real benefits of di2 are kind of lost.
That being said, there are eagle complete groupsets for sale online $800, and that includes arguably the best carbon cranks out there.
www.ridingfeelsgood.com/topic/marketing-wank-analysis-sram-eagle-chain
Also, wireless is an issue. Wireless is never used in high performance systems for control of anything within that mechanical system, let along shifting. Imagine if Lockheed was silly enough to try to use wireless controls, or an F1 or MotoGP bike had wireless shifting or throttle for that matter. You'd be laughed out of the boardroom, but not the case in cycling! Ant and bluetooth can be hacked with smartphone and both can be jammed with cheap jammers bought online($100). It's 2017, which means sram should know better by now... but looking at that chain illustrates they just don't want YOU to know any better......
Since I've been on 1x11 (6 months), I can count the number of times I've had to use the 42-tooth ON ONE HAND. And if I'm not going anywhere near it, than it literally is just dead weight, isn't it?!
If I had to choose between Di2 XT or Eagle, I'd be more inclined to try the Di2. But either way it's never gonna happen... SRAM X1 all the way!
In all honesty, for most of us $1,200 will be WAY too much for a drive train electronic or not. However, for those with a hard on for tech and/or with the disposable cash sounds like they can knock their boots off.
We all love to take a look on the “overpriced / high-end / experimental / early (and expensive) prototyping / race-only bikes.
But these are not the bikes we ride (once upon time I was riding a prototype bike…)
So,
The difference between the mid - prized bike and a high – end one is quite… nothing. I do agree with you.
Sure looks like a Shimano crank. Did you have sufficient clearance for the 34T using just a Boost crank, or is Shimano working on some super boost spaced cranks?
Seriously. The shifting is the best. If you're a racer, you'll go to Di2 after you try it. Just like hydraulic brakes. Just like tuneable suspension. Just like carbon frames. It makes a big difference. Now the cats outta the bag, haha!
Full disclosure: I'm on Shimano's friends-and-family plan but don't get things for free. I also worked for one of those crazy tech startups and still had difficulty with the "tech" side of setting up the Di2 system (it's not easy yet). And I've done product development for various bike and action sports companies.
I debated going eagle but decided that the cost of consumables (chains and cassettes) was ridiculous, I can replace my chain and cassette five times for each eagle one.
This is a new low for us and one that solidly puts us in spoiled-nerd territory far to deeply. I have ridden pretty much every drivetrain (including Di2) out there from years of working in shops and being an avid MTBer for 25 years and this is just an idea pandered to what cycling companies know cyclists generally are; geeks willing to pay stupid money for stupid gimmicks.
I swear there must be some inferior-performance complex that many cyclists have to make them buy into dumb shit. I have nice bikes but when I am slower than the next guy it is because I am not as fit or as skilled and I never once think, "hey, I would have beaten that a*shole if I had Titanium skewers."
Stop shopping, go ride.
Although I will dispute one thing- the shifter(s) are terrible. Nowhere near as smooth or nice as the mechanical versions.
Di2 is great for CX or road bikes, not really necessary or an advantage for mtb.
Well, for once you DID address one of the mail drawbacks of today's bike sub-culture. I am NOT "attacking" the very high-end bikes, nor the experimental ones or even the pure racing beasts. But the mainstream of mountain bikers, as things seem to evolve, are forced to pay more & more for a "decent" bike...
It seems that the bike related press, purposely "pushes" the envelope of "decency" quite ahead, pricewise, excluding nicely made bikes within the price tag of the 2500 - 3000 USD. Most of the people who enjoy mountain biking don't have the support of a sponsor.
A few years ago the 2,800 USD was almost at the top, as a cost for a bicycle, as most of the magazines and articles were claiming... Now the 5000 to 7000 (or more) seems to be the high limit.
We all seem to forget that the evolution of technology on mass production, was supposed to make those products ALSO cheaper…
As for the not-that-new idea of electronic shifting, if I had to choose between having a battery less to worry about while I ride my bike in the wild (it is called reliability) of be able to pose with the “latest cool part from the shelve) I do refer reliability.
Yep.
I know, I am an old guy.
Assuming we are still using derailleurs and cogs there will come a day when the shifter(s) and derailleur(s) are all you install; no wires; no cables.
So ... really ... what is this ... an anti-Shimano commercial?
This is not an anti-Shimano commercial. Nor is it a pro-Shimano commercial. This is an objective measuring of the pros and cons of this iteration of XT Di2, which is why I think readers will find both praise and criticism in it. There are a lot of amazing aspects to this group and it does have its strengths, which we've taken pains to point out.
Ultimately, there's little black and white in life....lots of gray. Same holds true for a lot of products. We're exploring that here. We could just give this a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" sort of verdict, but that would be dumbing down our review and that's not something we're interested in doing. Cheers.
For XT Di2 I need a rear derailleur, shifter, battery, display unit, wires, junction box, charger. That's going to run $850+
If I'm concerned about price I'm buying mechanical XT, GX or NX.
Don't get me wrong, I would rock the Di2, but how well will it shift if the derailleur hanger is slightly out of alignment or the derailleur itself gets hit hard? Mud and water are one thing, but what happens to it when it becomes physically altered?
If people dig front derailleurs, they should try this thing out in Synchro mode. I can't even do the shifting performance justice in words. It works that well.
As for on-the-trail rear derailleur adjustments... Should you knock things out of alignment, you can push the Mode button on the visual display, enter Maintenance Mode and tweak the rear derailleur shifting so that you are getting more accurate shifts again. It's actually kind of, well, rad. Shimano did solid work on this group and that includes allowing for troubleshooting of those real world problems. I gotta give them credit where credit's due.
www.evanscycles.com/en-us/sram-xo1-eagle-groupset-10-50-EV276448