Shimano released its electronic XTR Di2 drivetrain in May of 2014. While those who rode it universally returned from the experience with glowing reports, the $2,800 USD asking price (for the complete 2x11 group) led just about everyone else to shrug off dirt Di2 as something that couldn’t possibly be worth the financial fuss and bother. “I’ll give a damn,” a lot of people said, “when I can actually afford it.”
Which is where Shimano’s new XT Di2 group enters the picture. Released last spring, XT M8050 costs approximately $1,300, well below XTR’s initial asking price, yet brings several key improvements to the table. The biggest of which is this: You no longer have to connect the drivetrain to a PC computer in order to program it. XT Di2 features a Bluetooth-enabled processor that lets you wirelessly connect with Shimano’s E-TUBE program and tune shifting performance via an iPad app or (soon) either iPhone or Android-based smartphone apps. Thanks to a new battery, there’s now also the potential to control other components (dropper posts and suspension immediately come to mind) through the left-hand XT shifter.
Shimano recently rolled into town with both 1x and 2x versions of their XT Di2 drivetrains. The plan went like this: Set up a Trek Slash 29er with the single-ring set up and graft the 2x system to a Pivot Switchblade. Head out for a ride or two or three or four and then roll out this First Look. Once we’ve laid down several months of proper riding and abuse on XT Di2, we’ll post our long-term review.
So, here they are: our first impressions of Shimano XT Di2.
InstallationInstalling the XT Di2 drivetrain firmly solidified our belief that a wireless version of this technology can't come soon enough. At first we'd imagined it would be a quick and easy procedure – after all, it's just a few wires and a battery, right? It turns out it's not as quite that simple, and it wasn't long before the workbench looked like a bomb had gone off, an explosion of tools and parts.
The cause of the extended installation time? Tucking everything away neatly inside the frame. Routing the whole system externally wouldn't have taken so long, but when you factor in the time it takes to figure out the correct wire length (which will vary from bike to bike), hide the battery in the top or down tube, and then running and connecting all that wiring, you're looking at a process that takes a good deal longer than setting up a “regular” drivetrain.
The good news is that there theoretically shouldn't be any need to replace the wiring any time soon, especially not at the frequency that you would have to change cables and housing. In any case, a round of meditation and deep breathing might be helpful before diving into an XT Di2 install on your own, or if you decide to have someone else tackle the task, be sure to to tip your mechanic very, very well.
Once everything is in place, all that's left to do is set the derailleur's high and low limit screws and fine tune the derailleur's position. That fine tuning is done by holding down a button on the display unit to put it into 'Maintenance Mode', and then using the shift levers to move the derailleur in the desired direction until it's aligned properly without the chain rubbing on the next cog.
As we mentioned earlier, Shimano also has an app that can be connected wirelessly with an iPad (an iPhone version should be available in December), or via a USB cable to a laptop that allows riders to customize the drivetrain to their liking. The app makes it possible to speed up or slow down the shift speed, switch the function of the shift levers, including enabling Synchro Shifting, which makes it possible to use one shifter to control both the front and rear derailleur. We're testing both 1x and 2x configurations of the Di2 drivetrain, in order to experience and evaluate both options.
On the Trail with Mike KazimerEven though it's my job to geek out over the latest and greatest mountain bike technology, I still harbor some Luddite tendencies, likely due in part to the years I spent working as a bike mechanic. I'll admit that the idea of needing to remember to charge my bike in order for it to shift makes me uneasy, and I can't say that have any real beef with how the traditional cable and housing works. However, I do live in a part of the world where many of my rides take place in wet, grimy conditions, and not needing to deal with contaminated cables and the resulting sub-par shifting does sound appealing. There's also the fact that the XT battery should be able to go weeks, if not months, without a charge (and RC's experience with
XTR Di2 supports that), so the whole remembering to charge my bike thing shouldn't be too much of an issue.
I'm a big fan of 1x drivetrains, and these days it's getting harder and harder to remember the last mountain bike I rode that had a front derailleur on it, so it seemed fitting to go with the single ring version of the XT Di2 drivetrain, with a 32 tooth chainring and an 11-46 tooth cassette. After some tinkering with Shimano's E-tube app to get the drivetrain set up to my liking – I set the shifting into the Fast mode, and set it so the front paddle shifter moved the derailleur up the cassette to an easier gear – it was time to start putting it to the test out on the trails.
That first ride had a number of extended logging road climbs, which gave my mind plenty of time to wander, and I started wondering why the shifter had to be so similar to a traditional layout. What if there was a toggle switch of some sort, maybe something with a shape similar to the remote for a KS Lever dropper post? Or even just two triangular buttons, one pointing up and one down? I'm sure there are reasons for this design, but it's entertaining to think of possibilities for the future.
As far as the shifting performance goes, so far, so good. Every click of the shift lever was met with a 'zzzt' noise that meant the derailleur was moving with robotic precision to the next gear. One of the benefits of an electronic drivetrain is that each shift is the same, and once the shift lever is pushed that derailleur is going to make its way up or down the cassette no matter what.
It didn't take long before I was accustomed to the slightly different ergonomics of the shifter, and the fact that you hold down the lever to shift multiple gears in a row. There's a smooth jump between gears, even when it's the massive, 9-tooth span up from the 37-tooth cog up to the easiest 46-tooth gear. Shifting through that jump wasn't an issue, but the change in cadence did feel a little strange - maybe I'll get used to it one I have more rides under my belt.
On the Trail with Vernon FeltonAs a product tester, I’ve spent decades wrangling and wrenching on “the latest and greatest” products—and it’s an experience that’s left me with abiding distrust of the untested and novel. But there’s also a point when refusing to accept anything novel simply becomes an exercise in close mindedness. And, to be fair, Di2 is hardly new-and-untested. Shimano’s electronic drivetrains have been kicking around on consumers’ bikes since 2009 and were in development long before that. The question, for me, is this: Does going electric actually improve the ride?
Though I haven’t run a front derailleur on my personal bike in almost four years, I opted to build the Pivot Switchblade with the 2x version of Di2, knowing that some readers will gravitate towards the extra gear range this option can provide and because the Synchro-Shift function is intriguing. Shifting both the front and rear derailleur through just the right-hand shifter? It sounded cool. I was curious to see if it actually worked out on the trail.
The first ride, as Kaz mentioned, consisted of a decent chunk of fireroad climbing, followed by its polar opposite—a singletrack descent with its share of mud and roots. I followed that maiden voyage with another four or five rides. Almost all of it in the rain and goop. Though we’re months away from having enough ride time to give a thorough review of this group, we’ve had a healthy first introduction with it.
Shifting up the rear cassette, the jumps from cog to cog are clean and quick, even under heavy loads. Should I want to make those shifts happen even more quickly, I have that option. Or, rather, I
will have that option shortly when the iOS app hits the market next month. At this early stage, I need an iPad or PC computer to get the E-TUBE deed done and I have neither device.
Shimano’s tech guys, however, did run me through the Bluetooth-enabled tuning process on their iPad and it was both surreal and kind of awesome. Though it sounds complicated, changing shift speed and shift maps (the particular points in the gear range at which the front derailleur automatically shifts from the large to the small chainring) seemed fairly straightforward. We also reversed the role each paddle played on the righthand shifter. It only took seconds to accomplish. I’m looking forward to the smartphone app. Shimano has been rightfully slagged, in the past, for limiting the degree to which riders can customize their drivetrains, but that’s far from the case here.
As it stands, the most crucial derailleur adjustments are easily accommodated with a couple button clicks of the handlebar-mounted visual display. That’s a good thing because, after a couple rides, I started dropping chains on Synchro shifts, from the large to small chainring. A bit of button pushing, however, seems to have put that to rest. We’ll see how it fares in the long run.
How will Di2 fare over the long run? That’s another big question. Fortunately for us, we’ve got several months of shitty winter weather in store for these bikes that will help add some wear and tear to the answer. Look for a long term review once we put in a whole bunch of muddy miles.
The diagnostics suite is fantastic and it still surprises customers seeing their bike being plugged into the workshop PC and the ghost experience of watching the bike automatically shifting as the application runs.
I've built and worked on 100's of Di2 bikes (mainly road), including all the add-ons like sprint shifters, climber buttons, time trial extension shifters, etc.
But I won't put it on my own bikes, I just don't like the lack of tactile feel on Di2.
I prefer the definite mechanical shift action of both Shimano STI-LVR and my XT 10 speed mechanical shifters, Campag's EPS has their great aluminium alloy "dome" under the switch to provide a tactile sprung feedback click which feels better than Di2.
Would not be hard for Shimano to improve the shift feel/provide customization of paddle surfaces for grip, ergonomic shape and shift action/feedback click
The buttons on the mouse on my gaming PC actually feels better!
If you ever look at PC gaming keyboards you can get various grades of mechanical switch with the top brands offering different levels (i.e. red) of resistance to key press.
Should not be hard to have a small module that plugs into the existing lever blade or base. the current switches are simple and are installed during assembly, so can be removed and something else installed. customisation is the key, both switch action and the actual shape/profile/material of the contact points.
To be able to get a nice punchy shift action at the trigger or road lever would be cool
GOOD INOVATED SHIMANO
That is exactly the reason gearbox bikes will never be a mainstream stable in our tiny mtb world. I do however love the continuing argument about them. One thread people bitch that we don't need new standards or "not in 26 not interested" then next thread "we need gearbox now". Almost as entertaining as the Kardouchians
Beacause there are meaningfull and not meaningfull innovations, that's why! 27.5 is a marginal improvement to us, but great improvement for bike manufacturers because they sell much more bikes. You literally have no choice but go 27.5. On the contrary, gearbox is something we could really benefit from, and, unlike new wheel size and new shock length, it does not make you 5-year old frame obsolete. Simple as that.
Wait. . .wut?
Ok so 27.5 is pointless because it makes and old frame obsolete but a gear box transmission that will not fit an old frame doesn't? makes perfect sense to me.
www.nicolai-bicycles.com/shop/index.php/gearbox-bikes.html
The only upside of E bikes is that l think it will accelerate the gearbox development as regular drivetrains can't handle the extra force.
Dear aliens: If you can read this I wish to congratulate you to be a K3+ civilization. We envy your ability to transcend the speed of light. Before killing us, please consider that not every human is such a blunt idiot to think that attaching a battery and motors to a bicycle is a great idea. Yes it is the same kind of mentality that lead 50 year old men from Germanic countries travel to Thailand to have sex with 12 year old boys, and some of us consider buying a Toyota Prius to be Polar Bear saving endeavour. Yes we did not kill Kanye yet and use mobile devices with access to all information in the world to watch Russian drunk drivers or cats chasing laser dot. Please, if only for me, spare us. I believe that electronic shifting for mountain bikes is idiotic.
Thank you.
Have a nice day.
That being said, I only know one person who had a battery die while on a ride...
So 500 grms heavier than X01 eagle and $100 more expensive. No thanks, I'll stick to cables.
we get customers all the time asking about Di2 road bikes, if its on sale its worth a punt, but I'd never pay over the odds for electronic shifting when there are better areas on a road bike, and mountain bike, where the money spent would make a much bigger difference (i.e. wheels and suspension)
That said, every time I'm in the shop I wander over to the $10k bikes and change the gears on the Di2 bikes because I'm really a 12 year old at heart and it's frickin' cool. I'd take that drivetrain in a second were it offered to me!
I guess we'll see when the same guy has us retrofit it to his anthem when it makes its way to Aus.
Theres nothing wrong with luxury stuff but luxuries are at the bottom of my list for bike upgrades.
In regular 2X, if the chain drops you just shift the front der. the other way (i.e., if it drops inside, you shift to the big ring; if it drops outside, you shift to the small ring), and the chain usually finds its way back on. Is there a way to do this with Syncro Shift?
But I still think this is exciting. My XT8000 1x11 setup is good and gave me no issues this season, other than a lot of barrel-adjustments to fine-tune. If I can get responsive, abrupt and solid shifting, I am open-minded and into it. Adding up all the parts I need, is still pricey and a bit ridiculous - that's my downer, but it is never cheap enough.
I'd sooner shove a glass rod up my d!ck and whack it with a hammer.
Been a long time Shimano and a big 2x fan, but have moved on to 1x and am replacing Shimano parts with SRAM. Looking at the cassette tech alone has SRAM in the lead by a far margin. Let's not complicate stuff. Need a granny for the long climbs? Just run a 2x crank, no FD, and do a manual shift.
Fortunately, there are some people working on new ideas who aren't afraid of taking the occasional step backwards in the pursuit of making bikes better. The first indexed shifters were truly awful. I'm glad they kept developing them. Maybe di2 will eventually be a similarly excellent quality of life improvement for mtbs.
Got an xtr on another bike and hot balls that thing shifts smooth. Still no issues. Going to convert the big bike to shimano as well. Can't argue with the reasonable pricing from shimano right now.
I've talked with multiple riders and so far SRAM and shimano are equal in performance leading me to believe that a lot of it is personal opinions.
That is $256.00 plus tax.......$300.00
2nd thing is no mater what anyone here thinks......any electronic path adds latency to the circuit, a trade off for physical push/release. The game breaker for me is it is electronic and add mother nature and I feel a loss of confidence relying on a battery. I am a sound engineer 9 months a year and deal with hundreds of batteries a week, sometimes a day. I can say that I have had full lots of bad batteries and really anything can happen. We pre-check all batteries with a load checker and we still have failures as continuity for battery life and work length is incalculable.
So if the system fails you can't even MCGIver a set up to get home unless you like a granny ride.
The $300.00 I would spend on a battery and charger will go to a new chain, rings, detailers and tires.
I'm just thinking the whole keeping weight as low as possible kind of thing.
Yeah I was wondering about the retrieval part mostly... I have the new fuel so I completely understand how hard it would be being as the control freak cable tie down is already a job that requires a flashlight in your mouth and two J hook spokes being used with surgical precision...
I'm kind of surprised the new line of treks don't have some kind of option for Di2... but it's still early maybe something is on the way. fingers crossed haha
Sorry what is everyone else talking about??
There is a simple up/down button shifter as you spoke of available for road di2 that is compatible, I believe it is referred to as a remote climb switch although I'm not entirely sure.
This is like the greatest fax machine ever created. I'm sure it works well but the world has moved on.
and it's almost 2017 why are their wires everywhere?
I hate SRAM but Eagle is better, XT is the equivalent of GX now and Shimano is falling further and further behind.
GX feels like cheap crap and the paddle shifters are cheap plastic with sharp edges. The x1 was much better.
Xt feels like it shifts the same as x1, but the shifter ergonomics are much better and it costs less than half of x1.
I was super impressed with my x1 setup, until it wore out. The derailleur has so much play it was ghost shifting randomly. I was looking to replace just the x1 the derailleur and found both XT shifter/mech to be less money. I'm not sorry i went back to shimano, it feels as good as if not better than 10 speed XTR
The current XT should be compared to XO1, and as much as I love XTR, the XT's quality and performance has become so good I'd be very happy owning a bike with a full XT set up.
I'll pass on this crazy juju magic electric shifting bing bong stuff...
For this amount of money I could buy a really nice frame...with a 9 speed drivetrain....and solid alloy wheels
Or a really nice fork/shock.
First electronic shifter i had was the brownie (? Still have it) and was far better than any front derailer. At the time. And 10 years after. 1x good for "mtb trails" common in the us, but when i ride real mountains with uncertain destination, i still prefer an alpine drivetrain. Triple for the youngsters.
S: Super
H: High
I: Ingenuity
M: Man
A: A lot of
N: Not Cheap
O: Options
X: Extremely
T: Top- Notch
D: Destruction
I: Is
2: Not 2 Easy