Shimano XT M8000 Drivetrain - Review

Feb 8, 2016
by Mike Kazimer  
Shimano M 8000 drivetrain review


Shimano didn't exactly rush into the world of single ring, eleven-speed drivetrains, likely due to the fact that they've spent so many years refining their front derailleurs, but the demand continues to grow, especially in North America. For that reason, when the news arrived that the XT M8000 group would be available in a single ring option based around an 11-speed, 11-42 cassette, loyal Shimano fans who'd been reluctant to jump ship and dive into the world of SRAM breathed a collective sigh of relief.

Shimano XT M8000 Details

• 11-speed, 11-42 or 11-40 tooth cassette
• 1x11, 2x11, and 3x11 crank options
• Textured shift levers
• Redesigned rear derailleur with externally adjustable clutch
• Price (1x crankset, cassette, derailleur, shifter, chain): $424.94 USD
www.bike.shimano.com / @shimano
The focus of this test is on the 1x configuration of the M8000 drivetrain, which uses Shimano's new chainring design to provide chain retention, in conjunction with the clutch-equipped derailleur. Before going over the results of five months of hard use, let's take a closer look at the components that make up the group.


Shimano XT M8000 review

Cassette: There are two cassettes available in the M8000 group, one with an 11-40 tooth range that can be used for both single and multiple ring setups, and the other with an 11-42 tooth spread that's meant to be used with one ring up front. Both cassettes work with a standard freehub body, which means there's no need to factor in the cost of a new driver when calculating the price of upgrading from 9 or 10 speeds to 11. The 42 (or 40) tooth sprocket is constructed from aluminum, and the remaining cogs are constructed from steel for increased durability. There are two sets of three sprockets joined to aluminum spiders, and then five individual cogs. The CS-M800 11-42 cassette has the following gearing: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-42. Total weight is 430 grams, with a retail price of $89.99 USD


Shimano M 8000 drivetrain review
The grey lever allows the clutch mechanism to be turned on or off.
Shimano M 8000 drivetrain review
How much tension the friction clutch provides can be adjusted with a 2mm hex wrench.

Derailleur: Compared to its predecessor, the XT rear derailleur's slant angle has been reduced, which helps keep the upper pulley wheel close to the cassette across the entire gear range. The clutch mechanism, which can be enabled and disabled with the flip of the grey lever at the top of the derailleur's parallelogram, is now externally adjustable with a 2mm hex key, a feature that allows riders to easily fine tune the amount of retention to their liking. For instance, cross-country riders on smoother terrain may prefer to reduce the tension in order to have a lighter feel at the shift lever, while riders on rougher trails may run it tighter in order to increase the amount of chain retention and reduce chain slap. MSRP for the derailleur is $82.99, and it weighs 280 grams.


Shimano M8000 review
Dimples and ridges on the levers ensure that greasy thumbs don't miss a shift.
Shimano M8000 review
The chainring is constructed of plated steel joined to a carbon carrier.

Shifter: Shimano's shifters have always been renowned for their ergonomics, and the latest version doesn't disappoint. A number of the features were first seen in the XTR gruppo, and from the dimples on the thumb paddle used to shift up through the gears to the vertical ridges on the lever used to shift down the cassette, it's clear that some serious thought went into the little details. It's possible to move the derailleur through four gears with one push of the forward lever, and to drop down up to two gears at a time with the smaller rear lever.

Our test shifter came equipped with a gear indicator that I made use of a grand total of zero times, but Shimano does offer the shifter with the indicator already removed, an option I'd imagine most riders who are going the 1x route will choose.


Cranks: The main talking point about Shimano's latest Hollowtech II crankset is the chainring itself. Constructed from plated steel and held on a carbon body, the ring uses what Shimano call 'Dynamic Chain Engagement' (DCE), rather than using an alternating narrow / wide tooth pattern. The DCE tooth shape supposedly results in a 150% increase in chain retention. The teeth have a relatively square profile, with a deep channel between each tooth. Cranksets that can accept direct mount chainrings are becoming more common, but Shimano chose to go with a 4 bolt, 96mm BCD layout, which means that a 30 tooth chainring is the smallest possible option.

The outer diameter of the M8000's external bottom bracket cups has been reduced, which means that they require a different tool than the previous version for installation and removal. It's a slight inconvenience, but there is an inexpensive plastic adaptor available, the same one that's used for XTR bottom brackets, which means riders shouldn't have to buy a completely new tool.




Shimano M 8000 drivetrain review


Shimano XT M800 pricing





On the Trail

The M8000's shifting performance lived up to expectations; it's crisp and precise, quickly and smoothly moving the chain up or down the cassette as needed without any harsh jumps between gears. The XT shift lever can only shift four gears up the cassette at a time compared to SRAM's five, but when it comes time to shift to a harder gear, Shimano has the advantage, allowing riders to drop down two gears with one push of the lever. I never found myself wishing I could grab more than four gears, even when faced with a sudden, steep uphill, but I regularly took advantage of the ability to drop down two gears in order to achieve the speed or cadence I wanted. It does feel like it takes slightly more force to move the XT lever through its travel compared to a SRAM shifter, but it's a very slight difference. The battle of SRAM vs. Shimano for drivetrain domination is a heated one, but when it comes to shifting accuracy and feel, both companies offer performance that leaves little to be desired.

I ran the XT crankset without a chainguide for the first month or so of the test period and didn't suffer any dropped chains, even when pinballing down some of the rougher and steeper trails in the Whistler Valley. Of course, given how many light and simple chainguide options currently on the market there's no harm in running one, although it's certainly not a requirement.

As far as durability goes, the M8000 upholds XT's reputation of being a set-and-forget drivetrain, and it's required minimal attention since the day it was installed. The steel chainring isn't showing and signs of premature wear despite being exposed to everything from dust to mud to snow, and the derailleur itself is still going strong. The same goes for the bottom bracket, which is still spinning smoothly even after all of those aforementioned nasty trail conditions.


Issues

I found that backpedaling with the chain in the largest, 42 tooth sprocket causes it to jump down two or three gears, an occurrence that's most noticeable when adjusting the shifting with the bike in a stand. Because it takes more than a half revolution of the cranks for this to occur, I didn't notice it out on the trail (I rarely find myself backpedaling more than that, especially in the easiest gear), but since everyone has different riding styles, it's worth a mention.

The only other issue I can see arising isn't related to the construction or function of the drivetrain - it's the fact that the 11-42 cassette doesn't offer the same range as SRAM's 10-42 tooth options.

For many riders (myself included) this is a fairly minor point. The terrain I frequent tends to be steep going up and down, which means I'm more concerned about having an easy enough gear to get to the top of a brutal climb without my head exploding, not setting a new land speed record spinning my way to the trailhead.
Shimano XT M8000 review
It's close, but the XT 11-42 cassette doesn't have quite the same range as SRAM's 10-42 offering.

That being said, I do know that there are riders who want the range that a 10-42 cassette offers, but prefer Shimano's shifter and derailleur. The solution? Run a SRAM cassette, and get the best of both worlds. Of course, this does require having an XD-driver equipped wheel, and neither company is going to fully endorse this practice, but it works just fine, without any noticeable decrease in shifting performance.





Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesWe've finally reached a point where 1x11 drivetrains have become relatively affordable, a welcome development for riders who had been put off by the high price of upgrading. The question will inevitably arise as to which is better, Shimano or SRAM, but the truth is, one isn't drastically superior to the other - both offer excellent functionality and durability, although at the moment Shimano has the edge when it comes to pricing.

All told, aside from slight ergonomic differences, plus the fact that SRAM's drivetrain requires a different driver body, and Shimano's doesn't offer as wide of a gear range, at the end of the day, it comes down personal preference. That's not as satisfying of an answer as declaring that X is better than Y, but it's also a sign of how good today's drivetrains have become, something that benefits all of us out on the trail.
- Mike Kazimer



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Author Info:
mikekazimer avatar

Member since Feb 1, 2009
1,742 articles

303 Comments
  • 300 5
 brace yourself for the old guy thats just fine with 1995 8 speed shimano
  • 80 5
 I know him, but he rides alone these days.....
  • 25 2
 single speed pedal brake, beat that !
  • 31 2
 let's go klunking!
  • 30 3
 Of course a lot of people are fine with 8 speed. But this is the groupset we are all looking for. Great performance, reliable, durable, and about the price of an xx1 cassette. This will be my next drivetrain.
  • 8 1
 you can get these for @$200 on ebay if you already have good cranks. with no need to buy a new free hub, this will probably be my next upgrade this season.
  • 23 21
 I cannot wait for electric xt next year!
  • 19 49
flag Axxe (Feb 8, 2016 at 23:41) (Below Threshold)
 I really wish they made 8 speed cassettes with the same range and derailleur/shifter quality. Will buy one in a second.
If you have time to match cadence to more then 8 gears your trails suck. Leave it to roadies.
  • 56 7
 Well I am just fine, i got me a 1995 zaskar with shimano xt 8 speed. I still ride that thing! Out of the 20-70 bikes I have in my garage its definitely my go to one and that includes my 2016 spicy and the Tues I stole from gwin while he was probably out partying. Thats the problem with you young people no dedication. My main trail back in the day had 1000 ft of elevation change in half a mile and it was uphill to and from the trailhead...both ways!! You people putting so many gears on just a bunch of wimps! Maybe if you left some space you could put a spoke guard on your bike so you dont ruin your fancy smancy carbon wheels when your chain inevitably falls into it!!
  • 16 22
flag phutphutend (Feb 9, 2016 at 0:08) (Below Threshold)
 I only changed from 8spd to 9 last year. With a 32T-42T you might as well push! Why can't they solve the real problem and plough some money into gearboxes. Start simple with a 3sdp, up, along, down!
  • 6 17
flag jaame (Feb 9, 2016 at 0:43) (Below Threshold)
 Plus one for your pushing argument. 32-34 is ok for me. Steeper than that I'll push.
  • 8 14
flag WasabiJim (Feb 9, 2016 at 2:52) (Below Threshold)
 are you accounting for them new fandangle 29er hoops? bigger diameter and all. not everyone is on the beach cruiser 26in standard these days. plus you need the gears to make use of that extra climbing traction you get with ya 650DD plus size wide arse fatties
  • 12 0
 hey, I'm running 9 speed, get with the times, Wink
  • 8 3
 i just got done modding a 9 speed cassette to work with a oneup 40t cog. I pulled the 13 and 15t cogs out and swapped in a 14t. now i have 11-40 range and it shifts just fine. i wont be "upgrading" to 10 or 11 speed anytime soon as long as i can still get 9 speed stuff.
  • 4 0
 @ibishreddin lol
I'm that guy! Though dunno if 35 counts as old. I have been rocking 8speeds since the 90s. Just finished putting on a brand new 8speed sram cassette 11-30 which I added a 34T from another 8 speed 11-34 shimano cassette to get 12-34 (smaller gap between cogs). Not a fan of pie sized cassettes that weigh more than my 8 speed cassette! I run a 30T front for climbing and 32T for the bikepark.
  • 4 0
 Props for the 8-speed guy! The debates about 'what's better from what' seem to go on forever here. Taking all into account I decided to go singlespeed on my new 29er.
  • 4 0
 How about my 3x5 set up from the eighties that I commute to work on? Pretty sure that old Shimano SIS stuff will still be fine when the sun goes supernova. That and Honda Supercubs will be the last operational machines...
  • 5 0
 Dear big bike manufacturer a wide range 10 spd cassette is all I needed.
  • 1 0
 i have an old shimano "deerhead" rear derailleur hiding in the shop somewhere.
  • 1 1
 And who "doesn't' understated what all the fuss is about."
  • 2 0
 @ fix the spade ,the statement about Honda supercubs be true I tell thee.
  • 6 0
 Check out the sunrace cassette dude 11-40 or 11-42 in 10 speed
  • 2 1
 Yep i run eight speed. if i up grade i would buy this.
A full drive train for under 500$
What would the Sram X1 cost? three times as much or four times as much?
Cassette works on a normal hub. Bonus!
And this looks good!
  • 2 1
 Full xt except for a sram cassette
  • 3 1
 Refreshing to hear soo many riders sticking with trusted "classic" platforms like 8-9 speed. The price and corporate force feeding of 11 speed 42tooth gigacassettes has turned me off but shimano has an interesting approach here. My trails go straight up or straight down so never needed a 42t cassette. This price is unbelievable in todays market considering XT crankset alone used to go for $200+. This has me considering a switch up but even with my awesome, silent e13 guide,,,,, my setup still weighs less and I only push up on trashy girls at the bar.
  • 2 0
 @christillott I bought a praxis 10spd 11-40 to use with my existing 10spd XTR drivetrail. It's lighter than the current 11spd XTR cassette and the 10spd der. is also lighter than the new 11spd XTR. the 10spd also shifts alot crisper as well. I have another bike with xtr 11 spd and it just doesn't shift as nice. That being said, the praxis is a VERY nice cassette but the jump from a 34t to a 40t on the 2 largest cogs is somewhat large, wish it was 36-40 but oh well.
  • 1 0
 1mm bottom bracket spacer got me round the back pedal issue... I'm running XT with XTR derailieur and I'd say mud combined with 11 speed chains and narrow wide rings is more of an issue, I've found it skips and runs worse than 10 speed.
  • 65 2
 That's like, cheaper than XT 10 speed was....
  • 29 73
flag Hobo1337 (Feb 8, 2016 at 21:35) (Below Threshold)
 and quality has declined to pretty much match up with the sram gx offering. from what i have seen in person this should be called deore or slx 11 speed. not hating, just stating
  • 39 1
 I dunno, I feel like my new m8000 stuff is better quality than the 10spd stuff it replaces. The shifting is super crisp and precise, an adjustable clutch, etc etc. I've loved mine so far.
  • 21 33
flag Hobo1337 (Feb 8, 2016 at 21:44) (Below Threshold)
 all i know is that after demoing xtr and xt 11 back to back the quality differences are immediately noticeable as far as the smoothness of shifting. not at all a bad system and maybe im just over sensitive but the observations that I have had.
  • 6 1
 probably a good thing that xtr has some reason to justify the price diff then... dura-ace vs ultegra is so close for example
  • 45 3
 XTR shifter...XT dérailleur...XO1 cassette...XT brakes...KMC X11SL chain = drivetrain sorted

Super crisp shifting and quiet running and the chain doesn't fall off when back pedaling.
  • 30 2
 It's less expensive because there is only one shifter, only one derailleur, and only one chainring.
  • 6 1
 I'm talking individual parts, not just the groupset. XT 10 speed derailleurs MSRP was 100+ for some of em'.
  • 8 5
 @Hobo1337 So you are making those judgements on what you have "seen." Go ride m8000 for a day and you'll notice how much better quality it is than the previous XT. Even the brakes are better (which says a lot)
  • 2 2
 My hack job XT at the back with a 40 t/Saint shifter has no back pedal issues in any gear.
  • 14 11
 Shimano went down in finish quality for 11 speeds but shifting action is still top notch. A personal preference for sure and I prefer Shimano over Sram for crispy yet effortless and fast shifts. With sram I always feel like I am slamming my thumb into paddles, and downshifting on SRAM sucks.
  • 4 0
 @AaGro You pretty much just nailed it to a T.

Top shelf shifter, inexpensive to replace solid derailleur, wide range & light cassette, smooth quiet braking, and a durable light chain.
  • 2 0
 I just priced at CRC = $411.45 CAD if you use your own crank + a Hope or Race Face narrow wide chain ring (included in price)
  • 1 0
 Prefer Shimano over SRAM, but prefer Zee RD with a Saint Shifter...10 speed fer life, I guess!
  • 8 2
 I have found the "downshifting while backpedaling" issue to exist for both Shimano and SRAM. In my experience, it depends on the frame and not the drivetrain itself. Of my two 11-speed shimano bikes, one does it and one does not. Both the XX1 bikes I rode did it, but one that I had on the stand did not. It's kinda luck of the draw from what i've seen.

As for value, XT wins hands down. You can add a GX cassette and XD driver (assuming your hub is compatible) and still come out cheaper than going all GX, all while having better components.
  • 5 12
flag Hobo1337 (Feb 9, 2016 at 7:18) (Below Threshold)
 I already expected to be neg propped, just sharing my experiences. For the money i would go gx all day
  • 1 0
 @cliffyjj - i found u in the wild!!
  • 4 3
 the new m8000 brakes are last years xtr. my old 2015 xt levers on zee calipers was the tits! far better then any sram setup ever. my new m8000 xt brakes are even better then that.
  • 5 3
 Ich liebe Guides! Guide schreibebremsen uber alles. Fehrtamte Shimano propaganda!
  • 1 2
 i hated my guides. even after a rebleed, metal pads, sanded rotors, proper bedding process.
  • 4 2
 Regardless of how they perform, Guides still howl like a beotch.
  • 1 2
 ^this!
  • 3 1
 @cptstoney, the M8000 brakes are not last year's XTRs. They are clearly different in both the lever and caliper. They are however, much closer to XTR when compared to the previous XT discs. The finish and overall quality seems to have gone up.
  • 1 1
 I've got chain problems too with my XX1 when backpedaling! My new bike has boost hub so I think this will solve the problem... right?!

Boost spacing, Sram X1 cassette, XT der. and shifter, 48 and 51mm offset ring but if needed I'll buy a 49mm. That should be okay?

@AaGro do you have boost spacing? And do you know your ring's offset? Do you think the shimano cassette makes the chain fall off?
  • 5 0
 Talking about the cost of the 11sp Shitmano drive. Cheaper than older models? - maybe. New 50" LCD tv - cheaper than 30" 5 years ago. And that is exactly what is happening EVERYWHERE.
The problem is people are stupid - we just go and buy whatever, constantly being attacked with new, 'cheaper but better' stuff, and no one is even questioning whether we really need all of that NEW.
What we are not being told is the result of our stupidity, but essentially we are slowly killing our home, the Earth, turning it into massive garbage dump.
Hold on before you click another 'buy'. Think twice, learn how to re-use and recycle.
  • 1 0
 @Timo82

No boost spacing. Hell! I'm still running a trail bike with 26" wheels. Spacing is meant to be 51mm but I have difficulty accurately measuring this. Sure seems like I'm running it between 49and 50.
  • 1 0
 @AaGro If I didn't have a badass deal on my bike, I would still be running my Santa Cruz 26'' trail bike too! No real differences with 27.5'' so if you buy a new bike go with 27.5 otherwise stick with your 26! Wink

I didn't measure the offset either, I just saw it on my rings website! Wink Weird that your chain dont fall off... well I guess I'll see that once it is installed! Thanks anyway!
  • 46 8
 SRAM is now 4 generations into 1x11 and they still can't compete with the pricepoint of Shimano's second teir line. And no XD driver needed!
  • 15 26
flag hsracer (Feb 8, 2016 at 22:11) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah they can. It's called GX. Yes, everything else from SRAM is more expensive, but it is also way lighter. We're talking like a half pound lighter or more.
  • 38 5
 M8000 is miles ahead of GX in terms of parts quality. We're talking plastic vs metal internals in the shifters, and derailleurs. There are very, very, very few people who are willing to spend $200-$500 on a cassette that they will wear out after a season. When it comes to marginal weight savings or an extra $150: most people will take the $150 and be happy with the smoother, crisper shifting they will have to endure. SRAM really missed the boat with the pricing and spec of this GX thing.
  • 7 3
 Allix2456@ I fully agree. Just got a 10 speed GX to replace a worn out X9 and after one ride it is sloppy!
  • 7 3
 @MX298 Potentially a cable tension issue, you probably know this but if you replaced the shift cable you'll need to fine tune it after a good hard ride.

GX isn't a terrible drivetrain, it simply doesn't compare to M8000 in anything but price.
  • 4 5
 Gonna get neg propped to hell with the shimano circlejerk, but screw it. We did a side by side test of GX and XT 11 speed at work and unanimously agreed that the GX shifts better. Don't be fooled by how far down SRAM tier list it sits.
  • 6 0
 Yea, it's shifting is crisper but the low end SRAM derailleurs dont seem to last! And XO I need to take out a loan to buy. . . . .
  • 4 0
 Have to agree with MX298, nicer "feel" is not always indicative of quality and durability.
  • 2 1
 I wasn't very impressed riding GX, seems to be much lower quality than X01. XT price seems great, especially for that crank, and Shimano's alloy cranks tend to be way better than Sram's alloy offerings. I do like the larger range of Sram XD driver. It's nice to hear they are compatible.
  • 34 7
 C'mon, one tooth, if the one tooth less Sram offers trumos the ability to drop two gears is more important to you, have fun wasting money.
  • 33 4
 It really is personal preference. I know I'm bringing on a ton of hate here, but I think that a 10-42 does make a difference. After being unsure of if it mattered for so long I jumped on an online gear calculator and messed around with different chainring sizes and their respective gear ratios with the two cassettes. The difference one tooth made on the top end blew me away. Heck, E*13's new cassette with the 9-44 range allows me to run a 32T up front while having a gear nearly identical to a 34T front and 10T rear while maintaining a climbing gear similar to a 30T up front with a 42T out back. That's just me trying to have one chainring for the park and back country epic rides though. I hate having to have and XD driver, (new proprietary stuff drives me crazy) but once my new bike came with a SRAM 11 speed I stopped complaining because I already owned it and looked at the numbers. I totally understand where you're coming from, this is just my two cents from the numbers I've crunched.
  • 5 3
 For sure the 1 tooth makes a difference but for the price if buying a conversion kit, (there are so many) I would say that unless you can easily justify paying the extra bucks. Shimano is a better option.
  • 3 3
 Well, like Mike said- Sram cassette, Shimano shifter and mech. Best of both world's.
  • 16 6
 Smaller cogs wear faster, which means you need replacement cassettes sooner...
  • 8 1
 Damn you and your impeccable logic, deeeight! Fuckin up my party, man.
  • 8 1
 Running the numbers opened my eyes...

I'm happy with the 44, but I heard there was an issue with a 9T being so small and some sort of polygon effect (I have no idea what a missing parrot has to do with drive trains)..... Have you had any issues with your 9T?
Cheers
  • 1 0
 in regards to the 9t, it snaps chains faster. ask any bmxer from when 9th came out, just dont use it constantly and it'll be fine
  • 1 0
 @PaulLehr is that because the bmx dudes blow them when they do a standing start?...or are they susceptible when already moving?
  • 1 0
 @Mitch7Yeti have you run the 9-44? how are you getting on with it?
  • 3 0
 Its because of the torque load on a tighter radius of chain. This is one of the reasons KMC's multi-speed chains are designed with higher strength pins than their single-speed chains, or even their 5-6 speed chains (which typically do not ever see a cog smaller than 14T).
  • 2 5
 No worries, Shimano has been spotted patenting chain rings with wide teeth as in N/W but narrow ones missing... So a 32t chainring is having 16 teeth at same radius - Chain wear FTW!
  • 5 1
 Shimano actually invented and patented narrow-wide toothed cogs for chain driven farming equipment originally roughly forty years ago. The technology was later adopted by the motorcycle industry. Guess where SRAM got the idea... but of course due to the stupidity of the USPTO, you can re-patent existing ideas if you pay your fees promptly and be creative with your claims. Shimano probably would relish a lawsuit from SRAM for it makes it simpler to introduce their own patents into evidence in a court hearing... patents SRAM's engineers likely didn't cite when they filed their patents as it would have been known prior art.
  • 6 9
 Whatever, it still doesn't make them look any better by simply behaving like they are above N/W stuff, and going for some ridiculous solutions. My dad used to call it: holding your arse way too high for what it takes to sht. Those multilayer XT and XTR chainrings are really messed up. The only more stupid thing is a 500$ rear derailleur. The last frontier for Shimano is to create a servo motor controlled clutch, easing up tension for shifting and firming it a lot when coasting. Then you will have 800$ worth piece of metal and plastic hanging in the way of rocks. Gwinny chose to pay for SRAM over Shimano, another PR battle lost. At least to me Di2 hasn't topped out SRAM's XX1 effort, Shimano wins with cassette price only. Now if SRAM pulls another one with 12speeds, possibly with a new hub spacing, Shimano will be a second class company.
  • 10 0
 Except the NW rings are a clutch fix to get around the fact shimano brought us clutch mechanism rear derailleurs first, and theirs work better than SRAM's version.
  • 12 12
 That is purely personal. I prefer SRAM's clutch, I never dropped a chain on SRAM and it did happen to me on Shimano. Then the rear wheel installation on SRAM is much easier. Hopefully thanks to clutch screw I will be able to adjust it on my XTR mech so that it won't happen again, however I am a bit worried to break this long, cheap plastic clutch engaging lever. It is pathetic for Shimano to make such thing on their top of the line product. If you hold both the XX1 and the XTR in your hands, it becomes obvious that the first one is way better made. I'd say even X1 is better done. XT shifter and a hole at the bottom of it through which you can see the mechanism? What is that?!

I prefer Shimano shifting but they go down with the quality with each release. Their last quality highlight was the 980 crankset but still... almost as expensive as RF Next SL...
  • 8 2
 Yeah WAKI I have to completely disagree there. I've held several XX1 RD's in my hand and TO ME they feel bulkier, more plasticky, and even the cage rotation just feels sloppier than the XTR.

It's a completely subjective argument, but i'm firmly in the stance that XTR holds the "quality feel" crown. I'm not going to stake the claim that that alone makes it better. It really does come down to what kind of feel is most important to you.
  • 2 0
 @Travel66 I haven't gotten to try the 9-44 cassette but I plan on buying it once my XX1 cassette is toast. I have an XO1 backup but really would like to try the bigger gear range so I can bump my 30t chainring up to 32t without losing my lower climbing gear.
  • 1 0
 ok @Mitch7Yeti
Anyone else tried a 9-44 or 10-44?
  • 2 0
 the tight wrap puts extra stress on the chain when you're standing on the pedals hard. But we have gears and we're not stomping from 32-9 on a 27.5 or 29 from a stop. curious to see how it'll shift on and off though.
  • 1 0
 cheers @PaulLehr
  • 2 0
 So it's not about missing parrots, it's about Indian elephants and helicopters... I get it now!
  • 1 0
 you got it!
  • 29 7
 that whole group is not much more than a xx1 cassette??
no brainer..
  • 14 17
 Right but xx1 is half the price of xtr di2. Dont compare top of the range stuff to bottom of the range.
  • 20 8
 @inked-up-metalhead - now you're comparing electronic shifting with mechanical, after just saying don't compare different ranges?

Compare XTR mechanical with XX1.
  • 15 7
 That was the entire point of my comment, to highlight how ridiculous it is to compare things that aren't in the same class. Some things go way over peoples heads.
  • 6 4
 What item mentioned is 'bottom of the range' though?
  • 5 10
flag inked-up-metalhead (Feb 9, 2016 at 3:53) (Below Threshold)
 Shimanos bottom end 11spd set up is xt.
  • 5 5
 But is xx1 so much superior to xt that it justifies being what, 3, 4, 5 times the price? I'd say given the reliability Shimano consistently provide for far far less makes comparing xt to anything else in sram's range pretty fair. Especially when it clearly competes against 'higher end' sram stuff very favourably.

If he was comparing xt to some lower end sram then fine, but he is saying it stacks up well against their top end stuff.
  • 8 6
 Compare weights and tell me it stacks up.
  • 5 10
flag mgolder (Feb 9, 2016 at 4:13) (Below Threshold)
 That's it? Weight is all you have to offer in terms of how they can stack up? You really need more than that I'm afraid. I just told you they do stack up. But I offered more than weight.

Reliability. Far far better price. Lack of needing to go and buy a xd driver.

There you go, there are 3 reasons already that are better than weight. If a groupset costing 5 times more than xt isn't lighter by default anyway I'd be offended. The fact that it is 5 times the cost of xt and doesn't have shimanos reliability, doesn't have cheap replacement part costs, and still needs an xd driver bought . . . Then what exactly does it offer for all that money to justify it?

Other than weight of course.
  • 7 8
 A lot of new wheelsets come with an xd driver as an option or included, so ignore that. Reliability? Do you have any milage stats to back it up? No? Didn't think so. In my experience sram is far more durable and reliable than shimano, so its all a matter of personal experience and preferences in that department. And in case you hadn't noticed, lightweight parts that do the same job are the biggest expense in this sport. Its why carbon frames are on average 1000 quid more than an alu equivalent. Then combine the extra gear spread from the 10t cog (means you can drop at least 1 chainring size) making that 42t even more effective, youve got an overall better system. Thats what dictates higher prices in this sport, incrementally better products. Maybe its not worth it to you, fine, but it is still a better product, especially at the sharp end of the sport (racing). Saving 200g off the cassette and mech will ultimately be more rewarding than 200g off the frame because its unsprung weight, meaning your suspension will react quicker.

So tell me again that the only thing better is weight.
  • 5 7
 Erm, you said the only thing better is weight. You used that as you primary example remember. You only suddenly decided to try delving deeper into it once I countered it with multiple reasons where xt has an advantage.

Also, did I actually say xt was 'better' than xx1? Show me where I said overall it is better please. I'll wait. . . . . I didn't. I said it stacks up incredibly well considering it costs 5 times less, and is universally known to be more reliable and long lasting than sram gears based on basically any review as well, over the course of Shimanos history. And if lightweight cassettes are the best as you seem to think, why did my Sunrace 11-42t cassette that is lighter than xt cost less than xt?! And will certainly not be as reliable I can tell you now. So is lightweight and expensive the be all and end all or not? Your argument seem to suggest it is?

Again though, looking at your post, you start on weight, bring it up in the middle and then the end too . . . As a means to justify a 5 times price hike.

Then you mention racing.... Well, if you are talking racing now for some reason, why are you so concerned about xt stacking up? A 'racer' wouldn't dream of using xt would they . . . .

See, now you are the one doing what you complained about with the other guy, you are comparing a sram top end 'race' product with a 'bottom end' shimano product and trying to convince me the sram is 'better' . . . why? All I did was say xt stacks up incredibly well to xx1 taking into account all the areas xt has advantages. Price, reliability, replacement parts cost, no xd driver (some wheels have them, some don't so it is still an expense).
  • 5 7
 Because I couldn't be arsed replying fully at that point. And i can't now. Youve just admitted sram is better, so thanks for agreeing with me.
  • 4 3
 Oh and me keep using weight as an advantage is only the same as your 5 or 6 mentions of cost.
  • 4 4
 Really, did I say that? Or did I say that 'I didn't say xt was better than xx1' . . . I don't say either is better. But nice try.

Also, as well as cost of parts (the most prohibitive aspect of mountain biking for the vast majority), I mentioned reliability of shimano products (as evidenced in basically any review of them of course). Price, and therefore ease of getting replacements parts as well. And the lack of needing an xd driver (you saying some wheelsets come with it so ignore that is hilarious. Because all it means is a lot do . . . . And a lot also don't come with it, meaning it is an expense people have to consider).

So, that is more than just 'cost' as you seem to think I said.

The fact you can't see that xt stacks up incredibly well with a groupset that costs 5 times as much is probably the funniest thing I will read today. But, a 22 year old who knows no better than what sram have told him is probably not the best judge of what 'value' really is.
  • 5 6
 Your weight argument is baffling too. You are saying lower weight is better.

Again, my Sunrace cassette is lighter than xt . . . . So is it better?! Get a grip. Lighter does not automatically equal better, even in the 'race' world. A key factor along with many others? Of course. But it does not mean better.
  • 3 8
flag inked-up-metalhead (Feb 9, 2016 at 5:48) (Below Threshold)
 I know what personal experience I have from the last 10 years (im actually 24, ive just never updated my profile) of riding almost every day and spending around £20,000 in that time, and that says sram is more durable. Ive spent less (for the mileage) on sram set ups overall than shimano, despite the higher initial cost. Whys that? Because sram rear mech can take a rock strike or two, shimanos cant. Ive never said xt isnt good. Just xx1 is better. Its lighter (which is a benefit no matter what you say) with a wider ratio, which surely are the main things to consider on a drivetrain. You could come out with a super durable, 10-50 groupset that was 100 quid all in but if it doubled the weight of my bike I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.you said 'show me where I said xt is overall better' which means you didn't which implies xx1 is overall better (regardless of cost). And if two products do exactly the same job but one is lighter, then yes, it is better. I don't see how you cant see that.
  • 5 6
 You've spent 20 grand eh..... Woooo. Big spender. Who cares? Also, if you had bought shimano you'd probably only needed to spend half that due to the far better value they provide.... Especially whem compared to a set that costs a stupid amount more that doesn't really justify it.
  • 4 6
 I have bought shimano, and been disappointed with its long term performance. Ive had 9,10 and 11 spd x0, 10sps x9 and 9spd x5, 9 and 10spd slx and xt, 10spd zee and saint, and the only one ive been happy with from shimano is Saint. The only one I wasn't happy with from sram was the x5. It's why I don't see the higher cost as a problem, ive always got better performance overall from sram. So stop trying to tell me my opinions are wrong, I know what I know from experience.
  • 9 4
 Wow, so one guy has had better luck with SRAM, well that's enough for me...i'm ditching all my Shimano stuff and going SRAM! This is a stupid argument. Over my 15 years of riding and extensive building experience, i've had far better experience with Shimano than SRAM, as have all the guys I ride with. Despite that, i'm not going to submit that that means that Shimano is clearly better. And shut up about weight. You're talking about groupsets that are within 100g of each other, and you're most likely riding a bike with a 2000g wheelset and 1200g tires
  • 8 0
 Aaah, kids...
  • 3 2
 wow fellas!! didn't mean to start a rant...was kind entertaining though.
my point was in my position, father of two kids, wife doesn't work outside the house, living in a resort town because i love the mountians, and have a bike addiction its a no brainer to me to go with a 11 speed group on my alu framed smuggler that weighs 29lbs that doesn't make me go broke and can still afford milk and cereal.

im not trying to compare volkswagons to audis.. but my life style favors the vw and love everything (reliability and cost) like @mgolder was trying to bring out..
cheers!
  • 4 3
 Within 100g of each other? Really? Go check the weight of the cassettes alone.
  • 7 0
 Either one works very well and I greatly appreciate any 11 speed no matter who makes it. Bickering just cuts into riding time.
#GoOutAndRide
  • 2 2
 The cassette weight difference alone is enough to make sram setups better. The unsprung weight has a significant effect on how well the rear wheel tracks. I didn't believe it until I put an 11-36t cassette on my DH bike after riding with a road cassette. Huge negative impact on suspension performance.
  • 4 2
 @inked-up-metalhead I did...

XT M8000 Cassette 435g
GX Cassette 395g

@nobble - having ridden XX1 and M9000, I disagree. There's no noticeable difference in suspension performance from my experience. I would imagine that if you are riding a lightweight XC machine with a 700g rear wheel, and switch from a 9-speed XTR cassette to the M8000 cassette, you might notice a difference. But I highly doubt you are riding a 22lb Epic. I bet, like me, you are riding a 30lb AM bike with a 1000g rear wheel and 800g+ tire. Switching from an M8000 to a GX cassette for us is a 2% change in weight, and that's at the axle, not on the end of a 11-13" leverage arm like a tire's weight would be.
  • 2 1
 A GX 1175 cassette is 325g, an 11-42 XT is 433g. That's about a quarter of a pound weight saving. (and it's actually closer to a 5% change than a 2% change)

The difference would be less noticeable on a bike with less travel. When the wheel moves farther it becomes more noticeable. Tire/wheel weight have the same effect for suspension tracking because they all rotate about the axle.

The difference is significant regardless of if you want to admit it or not.
  • 2 0
 I own a bike with full XX1 and another with the new XT8000. I also just rode a buddy 2016 Ibis HD3 which has Shimano electronic Di2 set-up. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take the XX1 drivetrain any day over the XT8000 or Di2. While the Di2 shifted just fine, I just don't see the need and don't want to deal with any potential failures 30 miles from my car. As far as the XT8000, the XX1 is superior in every fashion. While the costs add up when paying MSRP (who does that anyway?), if you do your homework and are patient, XX1 on the whole doesn't have to be crazy expensive.
  • 3 1
 The GX cassette is the 1150 in the groupset, not the 1175. And it weighs 394g

So, much closer to the 2% difference The Raven mentions.


Also, to the guy above. So, as long as you pay less than retail for xx1 it is all fine? You do realise that you can also still get xt or any other groupset for far less than retail too? Meaning the price difference maintains.

And, as has always been the point of this . . . If you can clearly say you believe that xx1 is actually 5 times better than xt, to justify the price difference, then, well, I still wouldn't believe you because it would be nonsense of course. Nobody said one was better than the other, well apart form the other guy earlier.

It was all about justification of price versus overall value. And shimano do win there.
  • 5 1
 Yup...it's the X1 that weighs 325g. Ironically that's the cassette we SHOULD be using in this comparison, but no one wants to touch it in this argument because it's almost three times the price of the XT and shifts slower.

@k2rider - XX1 is certainly superior to XT, no question. Di2 is a completely different experience and really doesn't belong in this conversation. Its a preview of the future of bike drivetrains.
  • 10 1
 Anyone else notice the msrp posted is what most retailers "sale"price is... After they add 20-30% to show a discount. Check your retailer, I just looked up several and they're listing msrp for the RD for example as $120ish, marked down to 80... Cassettes $140 "discounted" to 90. I sense trickery & water-muddying...
  • 2 1
 No doubt. But where are you getting these prices? You can get the cassette and derailleur for around $70 each, and the shifter for around $50. The entire "upgrade" groupset (CS, CN, RD, SL, NW) is easily had for $250 shipped.

I'm used to the price thing...I don't even notice the "sale" anymore...I just compare what it's going to cost me at different sellers.
  • 1 0
 That's what I was going to say... I bought a pieced together XT M8000 groupo and while my prices were below what was listed in the article, that was through creative use of coupons and sales. Some e-tailers are listing the 'high' price and some are consistently at the 'sale' price highlighting the so called discount. Now I need to look up Shimano MSRP because something is a bit fishy.
  • 4 0
 Shimano recently (within the last few days) lowered the MSRP on the XT group, which is where some of the pricing differences you're seeing probably come from.
  • 1 0
 I did the same. I didn't get the whole group, just the cassette, RD, shifter, and a new chain for a little over $200. I didn't buy the crankset and just set it up with the 2x10 SLX cranks I already had and a RF narrow wide.
  • 1 0
 Good to know @mikekazimer . Thanks!
  • 8 0
 Whatever sails your boat, err, pedals your bike. As long as you're smiling after a ride, doesn't matter 10-42 or 11-34 . Yes, these are important for performance gains indeed but let us remember ,
"A bicycle is just circles turning circles. It's the human motor that makes it elegant"
  • 24 16
 Can't understand why people hatin so much the xd-driver thing, but at the same time don't notice:
- a bad crank design that looks like shit after 5 months of use (!)
- a need for a new bb tool
- a 10% less gear ratio (yeah that's 10% big-not 1 tooth small)
- an almost half kilogram cassette (yes it's cheap, but damn that's heavy!)
- an uncomfortable pcd specced crank
- an ugly crank (ok, that's a little personal)

As far as i'm concerned, i wouldn't compare this group to the X1, not even the GX.. I have to be fair and say that it's a good attempt to make affordable drivetrain with characteristics that move to the direction of sram's offerings, but come on people. In terms of quality and performance, we know that xt comes a little lower that X9..!

It's ok, i can stand some neg props
  • 9 4
 I'm gonna bite the hook. Bs total Bs
  • 9 6
 @thebikings what planet are you from? If you can tell me with a straight face that GX can compare to XT...well I think that alone would say enough. We can totally discount everything you say from that point on.
  • 2 0
 Good points there, but either group works well.
  • 7 7
 "Can't understand why people hatin so much the xd-driver thing"

Really? OK. When you've finished throwing money away, let me a tenner?
  • 5 2
 @pimpmasterjazz

Don't know why you're getting neg propped. You have a totally valid point. Those xd drivers are realllyyy expensive. Especially if you have a 10 speed Chris king. The 10 tooth is cool and all but I don't believe it's worth that upgrade
  • 3 2
 You forgot that they refuse to make a carbon crank... So they are left with all the things you mentioned AND a heavy crank... Also, you can specify which driver you want on most wheels. It is not like you have to buy both...
  • 5 2
 Uh...XTR crank is lighter than XX1 crank (540g vs 565g with 1x ring) BTW.

And what happens if I want to keep my existing wheels?
  • 1 2
 Agree with Raven, Shimano crank saves me alot of money from pedal strike routinity. I can smash any climb or down without worrying too much bout my crank arms scratch.
  • 10 1
 That chainring is not a "traditional 94mm BCD." The bolt spacing is custom (in an X-like pattern), so chainrings are not compatible with standard 94mm BCD.
  • 3 2
 aka asymmetric. and it's 96mm, not 94mm.
  • 7 0
 @christopheryang It is symmetric..... lol
  • 9 0
 Riding a GX shifter/der with the xt 11-42... works flawlessly.
  • 3 0
 Mike is recommending (or more like suggesting) the opposite so you get the extra high gearing.
  • 1 0
 well, I think it's cheaper to get the XT cassette since you don't have to get a 100 dollar driver body.

was ~230 for kmc chain, absoluteBlack oval chainring, 11-42 xt cassette, gx derailleur, and gx shifter.

not too bad since it blows my old Zee out of the water
  • 2 1
 I think Mike was subtly suggesting that the 10t and lightness in the cassette are the real advantages to SRAM, while Shimano has better DR's and shifters, so why not take the best of both worlds.
  • 1 0
 well if price wasn't an issue, that's probably what I would do.
  • 3 1
 Yeah in theory that's exactly right...a SRAM cassette with Shimano everything else would seem to be the holy grail. The problem is that if you want XT-level performance, you are buying a roughly $300 cassette (X01 cassette + XD driver) at minimum...maybe a new wheelset too. Then you look at the $70 XT cassette that bolts right on to the wheelset you have and say f-it, one tooth ain't worth it. That's exactly what I did with my trail bike. Tried to make a 10-42 cassette feasible any way I could, but ended up going with the XT cassette and OneUp 45t. Still ended up at half the price of an equivalent SRAM cassette.
  • 8 4
 @mikekazimer - In the article you talk about Sram being able to upshift 5 gears at a time while Shimano can downshift 2 gears at a time. It's actually the opposite. Upshifting is shifting into the higher gears (which Shimano can do 2 at a time vs. Sram 1 at a time). Downshifting is shifting into the lower gears (Shimano can do 3 at a time vs. Sram 5 at a time). Your low gears are the large cogs, where your high gears are the smaller cogs.
  • 6 2
 dave is right
  • 3 3
 Well, the chain does go up when you're moving from small to large cogs so... It's just a matter of point of view, as long as we understand each other
  • 3 2
 I think about it as a mechanic... when I'm tuning a derailleur, it's physically moving up the cassette when shifting into "easier" gears.

You're thinking about it like a car, shifting up is shifting into "harder" gears.

Neither is really wrong, per se.
  • 2 0
 dave is right.
  • 2 1
 Mike fixed it in the article and made it easy to understand as well.
  • 4 0
 Wow, guess we should just close our shop, I don't know where they got those prices but no Canadian retailer can sell you that drive train for that price and make enough money to keep the lights on and feed their family. RIP LBS.
  • 4 0
 And yes I did the conversion.
  • 1 0
 @gozerthegozarian, Shimano recently announced a fairly substantial price drop on XT M8000, which I would assume means that the wholesale pricing was reduced as well.
  • 8 4
 Eventually you will have to make your mind about product comparison. It has become clear that you cater to this companies advertising. Why websites in Europe like Bikeradar have no problems telling wich products are better
  • 12 3
 Because they get paid more to say that? Honestly, Bikeradar has the worst "reviews" going. One paragraph of mostly company spiel does not make a review.
  • 3 2
 True, This 'review' doesn't really say much beyond beyond the spec sheet. What a shame.
  • 7 0
 I've been running this since late August and there really isn't a lot more to say, IMO. It's a drivetrain, it has shifty bits, the shifty bits work and nothing broke. It's heavy, but it's not the heaviest out there and it doesn't require a XD driver. Compared to the SRAM drivetrains I've ridden, the shifting isn't as smooth and feels a little more clunky, but it's not so dramatic that I'd want to pay for the more expensive SRAM drivetrain and use a XD driver. The shifting is equally responsive on both. I can't really speak to durability differences, but I have probably 500-600 miles on mine and everything has held up fine, with the top ring in the back showing the most wear, obviously since it's aluminum. It's easy to install, adjust, and is really no different than any other drivetrain in that regard. Aside from that, the specs sheet says most everything else important, mainly weight and gearing range. It's not like a fork, frame, or other components where there is room for discussion around multiple factors, drivetrains just aren't that complicated. I'd recommend this to anyone wanting an inexpensive, simple 1x11 drivetrain, it's worked well for me and I have no gripes.
  • 1 0
 Thanks for your review. Definitely reinforces the XT reputation for being the working man's component. Where Pinkbike could add value is in specifically comparing it against other brand options, such as Sram, so consumers can make educated decisions. But of course, pinkbike would never do that, actually giving honest personal opinions. I get it, media company, etc. Job security, etc.
  • 6 1
 I'm 35% more stoked about the 150.00% increased chain retention but as Homer once said. 'oh you can used statistics to prove anything; 37% of people know that'
  • 1 0
 Yeah, you've also got to wonder how they tested to get that figure. I'm sure they have a way, but just wondering.
  • 4 0
 Is the backpedal issue to do with the unique chainline Shimano decided to use on their 1x11 chainrings? The aftermarket chainring fabricators WT/Oneup/AB talk about how they 'adjusted' the chainline to be better...
  • 3 0
 I read a review in an Australian mtb mag where they had the same issue, they put it down to the chainline as well.
  • 1 0
 I too have this back pedal problem. But mine takes less than the half revolution that the review describes. I am nervous to 'ratchet' pedal due to the problem. I am going to work on chainline too see if that improves.
  • 5 2
 I've been hearing alot about this backpedal upshift thing, and seen it myself on both XTR and XX1, and thinking about it, I can't think of a situation that i've ever been in, in my 15+ years of riding, where I would ever BE ABLE to backpedal in my lowest gear, let alone WANT TO. EVERY TIME i've ever used that gear, i've had every muscle in my body straining to maximize the amount of force i'm applying to the pedals. In EVERY situation I could come up with, backpedaling in that gear would have been followed by walking.
  • 1 0
 I have seen this on nearly every 1X setup I've fiddled with. I had a full XX1 group that would jump off the top gear in less than a quarter rotation backwards, drove me insane. Test rode a Pivot with XTR 11 speed, same story. I think it does depend on the frame though, some will just have a better chain line and maybe not have that issue. If you think about it, you are asking a lot of the chain to swing from end to end on a cassette from a fixed position in the front. I have to imagine that kind of constant cross chaining leads to faster wear. I've also noticed 1X's tend to be noisy because the chain is on such an angle a lot of the time.
  • 2 0
 @TheRaven what about climbing in the lowest gear, coming up to a log/root/rock/whatever. You speed up briefly to keep from stalling, then backpedal ~1/4 turn to avoid a pedal strike? I feel like I use that kind of pedal kick pretty often on chunky climbs. Don't have 11sp myself, but it seems like that's what people are talking about.
  • 2 2
 @bkm303 while I understand completely what you are talking about, in the situation you describe, if i'm on a climb steep enough that I need to use the 42t (or 45t like on my trail bike), letting off the pedals AT ALL, even for a second, means i'm going backwards. That's what i'm trying to say...the situations where i'm on my 42t or 45t are EXTREME. Now I can definitely see needing to do what you describe while i'm on my 28t-36t, but then I don't have the upshift issue in those gears so it's all good.

I have no doubt that there are guys who use their 42t alot more than I do, but we're still talking about a very limited number of riders when you look at the big picture.
  • 2 0
 I have the XT setup and have the backpedal issue just the same as Mike described. Its has never been an issue on the trail yet and I really don't expect it to be after riding it. Mine does take over half a revolution to drop so even if I ad to adjust the pedal backward it doesn't come off. It really is for me anyway only an issue on the bike stand. It really is just an issue of the limitations of chain lines when you try to spread it across 11 gears. With 11 speed the cassette is just very wide and requires the chain to swing a great distance, so something like this is going to be inevitable in some cases. On my bike I was able to get the backpedal issue to stop by removing all my BB spacers and spacing the chaining is as far as possible, but when I did the bike didn't ride very well in the smaller cogs as the chain was pushing too far inboard. So I ended up moving it back out since I prefer the bike to most efficiently when I'm in the gears I will use the most. From what I have read its a issue on many 1x11 setups of both brands. It all depends on how much range of chainline a particular frame offers, how long the chain stays are etc. I've also read that some people have solved the issue by switching chains as apparently certain brands are less rigid and have more play in them.
  • 2 0
 Want to know how durable the 42t is. Is it ok to replace the chain to new one and still use the old sprocket?

I ride a transition patrol with fourier 42t rear and 30t atomracing front. When I replaced the chain which is still useful to new one, new chain poped up and 30t got sucked on the chain ring after 1 year use.

I guess 2x10 set up saves much money and provides much wider and practical gear ratio.
  • 3 0
 Depends on how much you ride, and how often you replace the chain. If you do not replace your chain early, you will grind down the cassette which will force you to replace both. If you replace the chain sooner than normal you will get a little more life out of the cassette. Both are wear items however and you should never expect them to last forever
  • 7 2
 As close as you'll ever get to the dream of light, strong and affordable. XT doesn't make you pick two.
  • 5 1
 Maybe "not too heavy" is appropriate here.

Don't get me wrong, I still laugh at the guys who complain about a sub 100g difference in drivetrain weight while riding their 2000g wheelset and 1200g tires.
  • 2 0
 Who has tried Sunrace or Praxis?
I'm currently running 1x10 (XT derailleur) and it would be sooo much cheaper to change just the cassette to go from my 11-36 to a 11-42 rather than this 1x11 XT : Sunrace MX3 11-42 is 85€ and 390g.
I'm ok with having bigger jumps between gears, but I would like to know if you lose shifting performance or durability with these 10sp wide range cassettes?

BTW, Shimano if you made your own 11-42 10 speed cassette, I would buy it.
  • 6 0
 My experience: I have a Sunrace 11-42 10sp cassette that came on my Fatboy. It's a total and complete piece of shit compared to the XT M8000 group on my other bike. The Sunrace cassette shifts clunky, runs rough and other than being slightly lighter than XT and slightly cheaper doesn't have many redeeming qualities. I have tried the SR cassette with both a Shimano SLX derailleur and a SRAM X9, neither was satisfactory.

I can't wait for the Sunrace cassette to wear out so I can get something decent on that bike. I will likely save a few more bucks for another XT M8000 setup.
  • 3 0
 Hmmm. I loves me some XT but new BCD limiting after market chainrings? New tool for BB? And they STILL can't design a crank to minimise heel rub?!?! Hope managed this on their first attempt!
It's good, but its not great.
  • 3 0
 Even superstar makes NW chainrings for the new XT and you won't get cheaper than that

www.superstarcomponents.com/en/shimano-xt-m8000-96bcd-asymetric-narrow-wide-chainring.htm
  • 5 0
 You can indeed get cheaper nowdays - These little guys are dropping pricing now competition is high

www.workscomponents.co.uk/chainrings--cogs-19-c.asp
  • 4 0
 Cheers @Racer951. There is no way I'll be buying from superstar and putting money into that idiots pockets.
  • 3 0
 The BB comes with the adapter so it can be mounted with standard tools, FWIW
  • 2 1
 Yeah, but the M8000 chainring is good enough that it's worth dealing with the proprietary BCD. The stainless steel teeth wear very well compared to aluminum NW, and with much less relief to wear out even after seven months mine look brand new.
  • 1 0
 @Dobbs59 what's wrong with superstar can you tell me? I don't know them and if they are some shady company i would order from somewhere else. Right now they are selling all NW chainrings for £15.
  • 2 0
 The owner has been caught (without any shade of doubt) on MTB forums with sock puppet accounts, slagging off competitors kit whilst telling everyone how good SS stuff is.
I wouldn't say they were shady, I suppose it depends if you care about improving the wealth of ****s.
  • 1 0
 I see and no, I don't want to improve the wealth of these kind of people...
  • 2 0
 had XX1 and X01 on my last two bikes which i bought second hand and the sram groupsets were perfect! before that i always had xt. now for my new build i couldnt justify the pricing of the X01 groupset and i bought the m8000 xt. i am very pleased with it, the only complaint i have with it is the weight over the sram stuff. but as a dude with 100 kilogramms weight i should not worry about the weight of my groupsets :-) for the price the xt 11x absolutely rocks!
  • 2 0
 Is there a weight comparison somewhere between Shimano 1x11 vs 2x10 gruppos? I know the Shimano stuff tends to be heavier than SRAM, but I'm curious if it's worth it to upgrade my Deore/SLX 2x10 drivetrain with 11-36 cassette to this 1x11 XT. It definitely looks slick, and I like the simplicity of a 1x system.
  • 2 1
 My new bike comes with xt shifter included in the brake leaver(xt brake) . I changed the xt brakes to put my saint brakes and turns up that I can't fit the shifter in the Saint leaver and cannot buy a handlebar holder for the shifter..... Not good that
  • 5 0
 You need an "I-Spec B" shifter for the Saint brakes because the one comes with the new XT brakes is "I-Spec II". It's really annoying but at least you can still but it...

www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-xt-11-speed-rapidfire-plus-sl-m8000-i-spec-b-right-450106/wg_id-6568
  • 1 2
 Has anyone made a mount for shimano shifter to fit SRAM matchmaker?
  • 1 0
 @Waki - I used to have a Hope Matchmaker clamp, allowing me to use Sram brakes with Xt shifters. It worked very well and was well made, as with all Hope stuff I've owned... They'd be worth a shout with your specific requirements...
  • 1 2
 I just found that Problem Solvers make such contraption mounting I-spec shifter to Matchmaker clamp.
  • 1 0
 Is it I-Spec II to Matchmaker?
  • 1 0
 Problem Solvers told me it should be out soon... like 2months ago but nothing new on their internet page! I gave up, I'll just buy the xt shifter with handlebar clamp because I need it ready to ride this spring! Just hope everythings gonna fit right for my fingers.
  • 1 0
 The adapters cost almost as much as a shifter - if we are talking about Shimano. They have the new XT with three mounts on the market - I-Spec B, I-Spec II and the clamp version so you can buy the one you need and sell the one that came with the bike. From the clamp version you can remove the gear indicator and install a cover on it.
  • 1 0
 @bosnianrider we want our xt shifter to fit on a Sram matchmaker (guide brakes). I don't know if what youre saying is true but I've always saw the M8000 as I Spec II or clamp version. Shimano didn't have the cover ready to sell.... It should arrive soon but I have been waiting long enough for these two so I'll just go with clamp version and gear indicator! :S
  • 1 0
 @bosnianrider wow thanks!!! Not even on shimanos website and must be really new cause wasn't on crc or anywhere else like 1-2months ago!!!
  • 1 0
 I did! Haha
  • 1 0
 @Timo82 they announced it together but it's only available since the end of November.
  • 1 0
 @bosnianrider they're not on cad and american site that I go on...only in Europe maybe that's why I didn't see them! Pretty sure they were not on CRC 2months ago as I went to see their pricing! Anyway thanks again for the input, it will help me a lot! Wink
  • 4 2
 Since when was a non-symmetrical 96mm BCD standard?

Shimano have done this before, made a new BCD "standard", only to ditch it some years later. Trying to find chainrings for my '98 XTR cranks on my commuter is really hard!
  • 1 0
 If I'm not mistaken, Shimano used the same spider for the 1x and 2x cranks, and a different one for the triple. So someone can theoretically buy the 2x11 drivetrain and easily convert to a 1x11 by just buying the DCE chainring and 11-42 cassette. Going the other way is a bit harder though, because I don't think they sell the proper chain rings yet?
  • 2 0
 I've been looking for pics of the backside of the 1x cranks and all the pics I see have two sets of chainring bolt holes - there isn't a true 1x crank (I don't think).
  • 1 1
 Art's usually has great pictures that show the spider. Check it out:

a href="http://www.artscyclery.com/Shimano_XT_M8000_Crank_Arm_Set/descpage-SHCA800.html">art's/a>
  • 1 0
 a href="http://www.artscyclery.com/Shimano_XT_M8000_Crank_Arm_Set/descpage-SHCA800.html">art's/a>
  • 2 0
 There are so many options out there right now that make Shimano a bit "outdated" (in a sense that is). Other than that, one would certainly expect from Shimano precise and crisp shifting and they always do offer that.
  • 1 0
 I was literally just about to buy a new shimano cassette chain and chainring since my lowest cog is wearing out. I was thinking about going to SRAM's 1x solution but the XD drive scared me off along with their questionable reputation (I've never liked my SRAM x7-x9 stuff and have always loved my shimano bits. NOW A DAY LATER THEY COME OUT WITH THE GX EQUIVALENT !!!! So pumped!
  • 4 0
 I run a SRAM 5 speed and I go past all the silly boys with there suspension at Glentress every weekend
  • 2 1
 Roflcopters. I'm still waiting for the Tom XHorizon-Uber-Triple-Shift-Well-Gnarly Groupset you promised me.
  • 4 3
 I feel like Mike is just playin nice. Price is way less and the performance of contemporary XT over x9 is superior. I can't imagine why anyone would go SRAM for the one extra tooth and a ridiculous cassette specific driver. Aside from making a wide range 10speed cassette I have to assume this is the dream for most.
  • 1 0
 I used a very similar looking m9000 shifter the other day, and to be honest it was the most uncomfortable shifter I've ever used. I also felt a fair amount of flex coming from the body of the shifter when the clutch was enabled. Razz I much prefer the xt/xtr shifters from a couple years past Razz
  • 1 0
 I run a xt rear derailleur and cassette but with the one up 45 tooth, a kmc chain and a xtr shifter. I also had issues with the biggest cog and pedaling backwards. I purchased a longer b limit screw and the 11 speed goat link at wolf tooth sells. Have not set it up yet but I am hoping my shifts become cleaner, like my 10 speed xtr stuff was.
  • 1 0
 I've been running this setup except the crankset and the only thing that bothers me is the backpedaling. On my bike it only takes about a quater of a rotation for the chain to drop down the cassette--really makes it a pain when I'm forced to stop in the middle of a climb. I'm running a Wolftooth oval ring on X9 cranks, so maybe that's not helping the backpedal thing.
  • 1 0
 I have XT 11s and like it but the backpedalling issue can get annoying. Stall out on a steep climb and the chain will fall down to the 36t every time. IMO the problem is the Shimano 42t is offset inwards , making an already bad 11s chainline even worse.

If Shimano had offered a 11-42 XT cassette in 10 speed, I wouldn't have even consider 11s. The M8000 rear derailleur works with Shimano 10s shifters. Unfortunately the aftermarket 10s 11-42 are lacking compared to the XT M8000 cassette. My 10s 11-42 wolf tooth /rad cage setup had no backpedalling issues but didn't shift as well as the XT 11s.re
  • 1 1
 My Praxxis 11-42 10speed cassette is pretty weak compared to my old XT 10speed. it's like I'm running SRAM agan, ahah. But I get good range without buying a bunch of new stuff, so it's ok. Wish I'd known 8000 was coming out a few months earlier...
  • 1 0
 I have this set up on my Giant Trance 4, 2014. I was having so much truble with the SFA set up that came with the bike that I bit the bullet & went for the full set up of the XT800. It is brill for me I do about 25K to 35K rides most weekends & it has not let me down. Gears are spot on. But I do not go that fast & on fire roads or down hill on the tracks I don't pedal that much. On the up hill I do find the 42 tooth (with 30T up front) is good for me. I have had it on the bike about 3 moths now & it is good.
  • 1 0
 I just upgraded my 8 year old bike to the M8000 group set and man it's a completely different bike. All the components work smoothly. I just had to replace the shifter that came in defected. But got the new one and works great. wonder what they are going to do next.
  • 1 0
 The chain jumping down from the tallest gear is likely due to an imperfect chain line.

If it's an "aftermarket" drivetrain, like the SLX 1x10 I installed on my Knolly you will need to play with the BB or shim the chain ring to get a perfect line.

I hacksawed some washers and squeezed them in with extra long chain ring bolts and now my drivetrain backpedals flawlessly on every gear.

My setup also got better with time; a new chain isn't as flexible as an old worn one so the 1x liked to be broken in a little.
  • 1 0
 Old thread, but I have just read the whole thing, very entertaining.
I looked at it as I am deciding to sell or keep a GX Eagle drivetrain on a fat bike, or go 2x11 or 2x9.

I have 1 other fat bike a Felt DD70 which came with a 22-32-44 x 11-36 Deore/Alivio 9 speed drive train.
This drive train is super robust and has a giant range. With the Jumbo Jim's being a fast fat bike tyre being in the 44t chainring out of the saddle, cruising along on tarmac I enjoy the 44t.
Main point about Deore/Alivio 9 speed is how tough it is.
3 times I have mashed the RD, and straightened it on the trail by hand, and it works fine. Thats amazing.
The quality of the shifting is excellent and 9 speed is so easy to setup and stays tuned with nice big spaces between cogs.

The GX Eagle on the other hand is extremely sensitive to misalignment. When it works its tremendous. Slick changing, back pedalling on the 50t, huge range.
But I'm on my second RD in 800 miles, and its been in shops 3 times to be realigned.
(just learned that the bearings in the hub must be tight, any play will have a negative impact on shifting on the 36t-42t-50t).

I can imagine the 2x or 1x 11 Shimano XT must be a great drivetrain,
but I am seriously impressed with Deore/Alivio 9 speed. Its extremely cheap too. Probably go 9 speed 22-36 x 11-36 which is good on a fat bike.
  • 7 3
 A little harsh to assume we all have greasy thumbs!
  • 5 1
 I always eat bacon wrapped fried chicken after my safety breaks. It's usually not the greasy thumbs that are causing mis-shifts afterwards, though...
  • 2 0
 Gutted, my "greasy" thumb just neg propped you by mistake Frown
Sorry man!
I'm gonna go console my clumsiness with some fried chicken.
  • 1 0
 Well at least bring me some! lol
  • 2 1
 Just make sure you tape the cranks if you care about that sort of thing. The paint finish seems to have taken a budget cut...it annoyed me at first but then I remembered that Shimano ftw!
  • 4 0
 cassette is chunky though! 430gms
  • 2 0
 Indeed. In actual fact Shimano quote 447g (ouch!) for the 11-42T. 411g for the 11-40T.
  • 3 3
 Mine 11-42 is 429 incl. lock ring - I can post a pic if I must. Heavy but cheap. Maybe next year I buy the Sram, but their price is sick...
  • 4 2
 Gx cassette is only 20 quid more (over here at least) and 100g lighter. Counter in the fact most new wheels will come with an xd option (some at no extra cost) and surely the gx is worth it even if you don't think youd need the 10t
  • 5 5
 Yea but with the driver I'd pay for GX as much as for XTR, and sorry but 50 series SRAM cassettes of all speeds are not really a cutting edge tech since they are equal to Deore.
  • 6 2
 Except there's no deore 11spd. I cant imagine how heavy that will be when it eventually surfaces, 650g maybe?
  • 4 3
 @inked-up-metalhead then you have to factor in the price of the new wheels, as the buyer doesn't need them for XT. Most folks upgrading to XT or GX do not have convertible wheels. Even if they do, they need the XD driver, which can be as cheap as $50, but can be expensive as $200 (exactly the price for the XD driver for my former Fulcrum WS).

There is NO price comparison between Shimano and SRAM. SRAM is more expensive across the board, period. Which one is better is subjective.
  • 5 2
 There is actually. What if your doing a major upgrade to your bike or building a new one. Youd get a wheelset that comes with an xd driver. I know thats quite subjective, but so is saying theres loads of people who cant upgrade without a new wheelset. Sram 11spd has been out long enough now that most wheels do have ab xd option, and if theyre pre 11spd then theyre getting on a bit and may need replacing soonish. Im not saying to go out and spend loads on converting to sram 11spd, but if your upgrading the core components anyway its worth going for a sram cassette just for the weight saving. Combining it with the larger range that allows a smaller chainring for better ground clearance aswell aa making the 42t more effective, its a far better overall system.
  • 3 2
 That's a much better argument. I won't disagree that there are situations in which SRAM drivetrains become economical. But to say that that fact makes them better is completely inaccurate.

The problem is that the majority of the world is still riding cup and cone hubs that are not convertible. Sure someone upgrading their drivetrain may have planned on new wheels anyway, or they may be spec'ing a new build. But in the context of the common man, riding his 5+ year-old bike, who just managed to scrounge up a couple hundred dollars and is trying to budget the rest of the cash he needs for a new drivetrain, XT is so much more attainable than even GX...let alone X1.

But again, which is better is completely subjective. Larger chainrings reduce ground clearance, but since in 99% of cases we are talking about a 30T vs 32T chainring, it's exactly the same non-factor as the fact that smaller chainrings wear faster (and wear chains faster). Both are such a small distinction as to be nearly inconsequential. Also being forgotten here is the effect that the GX and X1 pinned cassettes have on shifting. Small difference, but about the same small difference that 100g makes mounted on a 1100g rear wheel with a 1200g tire mounted on it. All these minor points we are arguing are silly. Price and preference are far more important.
  • 3 2
 Actually, its more like 34 to 30t in chainrings, and if you were to add in an e thirteen cassette its 34 to 28. 36 drops to 32 or 30. Theres quite a difference in diameter between a 30 and a 36, roughly an extra inch ground clearance. And I get your point on the overall weight, but if you can save 150g on your cassette for 20 quid and get a sturdier rear rim so the overall weight is the same but it's a tougher set up surely thats better.
  • 3 1
 XT cassette is $70 (Merlin or CRC)...what's the best price on a GX cassette? Best price i've found is $124. So it's $50ish to save 40g and have slower shifts. You could go to an X01 Cassette for equivalent shift quality and save like 150g (which is still going to be unnoticeable on a 1000g wheel with a 800g+ tire), but that's a $160 difference.

This is completely forgetting the XD issue. So i'm still not seeing it.
  • 4 1
 In my few years of riding and testing various cassettes, Shimanos always outlived Srams by a margin. 950 and 1050 cassettes were crap. There is no way I'm spending 120€ on such quality of steel and shifting for 1150. The problem Is that 11sp XTR cassettes are reported to suffer from annoying creaking just like their 10sp counterparts.
  • 2 1
 I'm with Waki here, I had an X1 cassette that lasted about 8 months and was completely worn out, with missing or bent teeth. Really not impressed for a wear item that costs 230$. Same story with 9 and 10 speed sram cassettes, fast wear, teeth that break off or cogs that fold. I might no be the smoothest shifter when climbing, but I never had those problems even with the cheapest shimano cassette.
  • 1 1
 I got the full groupset on ebay brand new (brakes included) for less than the xx1 cassete and rear derailer

Wow no brainer
  • 1 1
 XT cassette with XTR/Dura Ace chain (solid links if possible) is the bees knees. Shifts well and probably saves your money.
  • 4 3
 Am I the only one wondering why the logos on modern cranks only last for weeks? I am also riding decades-old 600 Shimano and XTR 950 cranks and they are still in a better optical condition than my 1y old SRAM.
  • 1 0
 Usually due to the paint they used.
  • 3 0
 The best thing about the new Shimano 1x11 is now the 1x10 stuff dirt cheap!!
  • 2 0
 Some day I'll get this, in the mean time I'll ride what I have. 10 speed narrow wide, with a granny ring I can manually switch too for prolonged climbs.
  • 3 1
 I have XT 10sp & XTR 9sp and X1 11sp bikes. They are all excellent drivetrains. Don't be such fanboys and arguing how your set up is the best.
  • 4 0
 respectable pricing.
  • 3 1
 Surprised not to see any mention of the colossal price difference between this and even Srams most basic 1x11 drivetrain
  • 2 1
 I just went from a 2x9 set up to this 1x11 over Christmas thanks to my awesome wife. Only having gone out on a few rides so far I can honistly say I love this drivetrain
  • 2 0
 Why in the world wouldn't the reviewer mention the fact that this drivetrain is so loud in comparison to sram's 1x11 system.
  • 1 0
 In what regard? I found the noise between the two drivetrains to be similar - one didn't seem to be noisier than the other, and with Shimano's adjustable clutch you should be able to have very minimal chain slap.
  • 1 0
 I am not talking about the chain slap. That would be similar but as the reviewer mentions the fact that in the stand the chain will drop he should have also noticed that on the 42t cog the chain makes a lot of noise at the crank due to the chain line. I find that the xo or even x1 system seems to make less chain noise. noise due to chain slap and general chain noise due to chainline are different my apologies for not clarifying.
  • 3 3
 And I just bought the XT cassette... Still 85€ vs 250€ + 65€ for the XD driver - I take Shimano and try to remember that back pedal sht...
  • 2 2
 My factory setup SRAM X1 drops from 42T when backpedaling after I moved the chainline in 2,5mm. Before it dropped from 36 and 42 so I don't think it's unique to Shimano.
  • 3 2
 That is correct, it's not a Shimano problem. It appears to be a 1x11 chainline problem, and it's also dependent on frame. Of my two Shimano 1x11 bikes, only one does it. I've seen XX1 bikes that do it and ones that don't. That said i'm still waiting for someone to offer a compelling explanation as to why it matters.
  • 2 0
 @TheRaven as I can do a good half rotation before it drops it doesn't matter for me. Before I moved the chainline it was bad because it dropped immediately and it was be problematic when I had to reposition the pedals on a technical trail.
  • 3 2
 See there again I just can't fathom how this can be an issue. In my experience, if you are in such a situation that you are able to backpedal in your lowest gear, then you don't need to be in your lowest gear. I'm only using that gear for the kind of climb where if I attempt to backpedal, i'm going to immediately be moving backwards.
  • 1 0
 I don't see it as a big issue especially now when it only drops from the 42. My bike came with 34T chainring and it was a little bit tall for me and I used the 42t cog more ofthen than now with 32T chainring.
  • 3 1
 @TheRaven I'm right there with ya on this one. Who backpedals while climbing?
  • 1 0
 Obviously it's not a problem when you are climbing but you might need to rotate the pedals back after you stopped so the pedal is in the "preferable" position when you want to restart. If it drops immediately when you kick the pedal back it can be annoying that's all.
  • 2 0
 @TheRaven, I ratchet in my lowest gear occasionally going up long climbs with ledges and rock gardens, where I need to keep my heart rate in check. It happens because I gear for 90% of my riding, not this one hill (though I do that hill frequently). So it doesn't make sense to set my gearing for this one spot.

So I'll be spinning along up the slope, probably at about 75-80 rpm and then come to a ledge/rock climb at which point I'll spin up to say 100 to pick up a bit of momentum and pop up the ledge at which point I find myself in a 15% upslope rock garden where I'll hit my cranks if I don't ratchet. And yes, I'm usually stopped and track standing at this point, but can keep going/get started again (sometimes) if I'm in my granny and can rachet to the right spot.

That being said, it really is just one or two locations I ride, i'm only ratcheting a 1/4 to an 1/8th of a turn, and my chain doesn't fall off anyway, but, theoretically at least, I can see it being an issue for people who are way above my skill level riding super steep technical terrain.
  • 1 1
 Yeah that's what i'm figuring must be the case. It's very hard to think up situations where it would be a problem, so while I have no doubt that someone somewhere has been, and will be, fouled up by this issue, i'm certain it's extremely rare. Furthermore, i'm confident i'll never experience it.
  • 1 0
 crank is light but cassete is .... WTF . My old xtr derailleur 215-230 . I will stay with my 2x9
  • 2 2
 I have that same issue when back padling. It downshifts 2 cogs and after whrn I pedal it goes up again. I really dont like that for me is disapointing.
  • 1 3
 Probably you're deralliuer is not setup right
  • 3 1
 Problably you didnt read the review and see that they have the same problem...
  • 2 1
 But looks like you are following me. Every time come to my comenta to be against me... Get out of my shadow please
  • 1 1
 I just priced at CRC = $411.45 CAD if you use your own cranks and run a Hope or Race Face narrow wide chain ring (included in price).
  • 1 2
 there is no way the new GX kit compares to this new Xt kit , I have both........perhaps on price and weight , but the quality shifting with the XT is FAR superior, it just feels way more quality.
  • 1 0
 $424.99 USD is about $799 CDN. Will have to keep the XT 10spd on my bike for another year!!
  • 1 0
 I have this set up, but cannot find the plate to remove the gear indicator. Does anyone have a link for it?
  • 1 0
 Give me Simplex not herps.
  • 1 0
 Dōmo arigatōgozaimashita, Shimano! ;-)
  • 2 2
 Now just bring that technologie down to slx next year and shimano is back on top again.
  • 3 3
 £170 to change to XT 11sp, how much to change to sram just for a 10t that I'd never use?
  • 1 2
 Just built 1*11 with xt shadow at the rear, xt xt cassette and xtr shifter. Best combo i ever had. The shifter makes the real difference
  • 3 2
 Yeah, I cheaped out once on a SLX shifter and will never do that again. the small price hike for an XT was so worth it.
  • 1 0
 steel joined to a carbon carrier, yes steel not Ti.
  • 2 2
 Shimano >> Sram in my book.

I love the pricing of the new XT stuff. Awesome.
  • 1 1
 Or use the new E thirteen cassette with this group?
  • 3 3
 gonna wait for SLX version
  • 2 0
 How can SLX cost less?
  • 1 0
 SLX is always cheaper than XT.
  • 1 1
 Anyone tried pairing the XT shifter with XX1/X01 derailleur?
  • 3 1
 won't work. shimano and sram use different pull ratio's on their shifters. shimano is like 2:1 and sram is 1:1.
  • 2 1
 That used to be true back in the days of 9spd, but he pull ratio's are now very close between the 2. Some people rigged their 10spd drivetrain using some spacers at the cable bolt to make up for the pull difference, but it probably doesn't work all that well in real life and I can't see why you would want to do that anyway. Just use a shimano derailleur if you prefer the shimano shifters, shit quality is mostly in the shifter and cassette, the mech makes very little difference.
  • 1 1
 Well reason I asked is cause I've tried XT rear d with a GX gripshift, and it works. Only reason I haven't tried XT shifter with X01 rear d is cause I do not own the shifter. I very much prefer Shimano's trigger shifter over SRAM's
  • 2 0
 Shimano and Sram 11sp transmissions are fully interchangeable. You can use any shifter/rear der/cassette and it will work.
It was tested on russian local forums.
  • 1 0
 Sweet! Thanks for that info @Legalaze
  • 2 1
 Come on SLX!!!!
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