Spank's Foam Filled Rim Promises Better Reliability and Feel - Crankworx Whistler 2017
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Can a specially made, foam filled aluminum rim provide a smoother and more forgiving ride? Spank believes that their soon to be released Ooozy 350 Vibrocore rim does exactly that, and it's a technology that they've been using for quite awhile with their Spike 800 Race Vibrocore handlebar.
We've seen rims grow over the last few years to the point that a 30mm internal width, a number that was once unheard of, has become pretty dang normal. But in order for strength to be retained, rim height has also had to increase a good deal, a combination that's made for some stiff and unforgiving rims, especially when they're done in carbon fiber. That's not necessarily a bad thing, of course, but a rim or wheel that's too rigid vertically and laterally can sometimes transfer harsh vibrations right up through the bike and into the rider, especially if large carbon fiber rims are fitted to a short-travel bike. High-volume rubber can help, sure, but there's a reason why World Cup downhillers have been known to run 'soft' wheels that feature lower spoke tension: better tracking and less fatigue. Hell, some of the best racers in the world have been spotted running dual crown forks with arches cut in half, or the same done to their seat stays, in a search for more forgiveness and improved tracking.
Can't a certain amount of flex be built into a carbon rim? Spank believe that they can accomplish the same thing with their foam filled alloy Ooozy 350 Vibrocore rim, and at a much lower price to both the consumer and the environment than anything constructed out of carbon fiber.
 | From a design point of view, I love carbon fiber. There's a lot you can do with it, but from an environmental and a cost point of view, I don't see the value in it. The cost of the product exceeds the value that it brings to the consumer. |
The rim itself is an all-new shape for Spank, with an ultra-low height that's designed to allow for a specific amount of vertical compliance, more so than a taller rim that wouldn't flex as much. The corrugated shaped OohBah rim bed is used, as is their Bead Bite anti-burp treatment, but the Vibrocore foam that's hidden inside the rim is the real trick. The low-density green foam is injected into the rim in a soft state, only hardening once inside to expand and provide structural support. Spank's Gavin Vos likened it to a full and unopened can of pop that can support a lot of weight whereas an empty can is easily crushed.
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Just like in Spank's Spike 800 Race Vibrocore handlebar, the foam is designed to filter out a lot of that high-frequency buzz that can tire riders out without them even realizing it, but Spank claims that it also allows the low-profile aluminum rim to take in bigger impacts and return to its original shape much more effectively than a standard rim. The Vibrocore rim pictured here is designed with exactly that in mind, and Vos did say that there will be a number of rims designed specifically for the Vibrocore treatment, starting off with a downhill model. I could also see an exceptionally light aluminum cross-country rim using Vibrocore foam to increase strength without adding too much weight; Vos said that the Vibrocore foam adds about 40-grams to a 27.5" rim.
The rim still requires tubeless tape, foam or no foam, and the standard external nipples can be replaced if required as per normal - no special tools or technique required.
Spank plans to have Vibrocore-equipped rims and wheelsets available before the new year, and we'll have a set in for testing quite soon. How much difference will it make? I'm not sure, but I know that the Spike 800 Race Vibrocore handlebar that I tested back in 2014 did surprise me with how effective it was. And, having ridden pretty much every carbon wheelset on the market, I also know that my favorite wheels featured low profile aluminum rims because they simply feel nicer. Either way, Spank's Vibrocore rims sure are interesting.
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More foam = more fun
It is pretty much the same structure they are trying to achieve here...
I can see Mik Hannah opening his mouth at the spank factory, ready for the foam.
Spank tech: guess again!
Check out the link and the white paper with all the data.
spank-ind.com/vibrocore.php
Ask people who have ridden the bars as well.
Curious why you think it's snake oil? This isn't just spray foam you buy in a hardware store cause that truly won't work, we tested different formulas that are used on industrial machines. Take a look at the info I would love to hear your thoughts afterwards.
It is another thing to claim that vibrocore has an effect in a rim on ride quality and impact resistance. I am not sure how you measure ride quality but the impact resistance can certainly be tested to see if their is an advantage over a similar rim. The beer can analogy is not applicable. Compare the wall thickness of an aluminum beer can to their rims. A toddler can squeeze and deform an empty beer can with their fingers - try that with a spank rim. When you fill a beer can with foam of course it gets harder to deform, the same may not be true for the several orders of magnitude stiffer rim. Iamamodel has it right below.
On an aside - my buddy uses SPANK rims and absolutely raves about them. They make good products....
Resonance is the biggest issue and we can accurately show our bars reduce resonance to make a ride more comfortable.
www.bike-magazin.de/komponenten/lenker_vorbauten/test-2016-spank-vibrocore/a33999.html
And isn't it the real world where it would count? Cool idea, but so far, in my eyes, not independently verified.
You ask for evidence, it is provided, then you say you 'skimmed it'..... Good stuff.
If you read my posts again -never once have I questioned that the handlebars do reduce fatigue though vibration dampening. As far as I can see from the white paper Spank has tested their bars against 6 other representative bars (2 in each class -carbon, 35 mm, 31.8 ) and made conclusions based on the testing. I cannot read the writing on the graphs in the appendices so that's all I can say/guess at. Lets give Spank credit. How many times have you heard people in the bike industry make claims of unprecedented/minor performance gains without backing them up?
They make claims about stiffness and fatigue life in the white paper but there is NO DATA to support this in that paper. All I am questioning is how the foam improves IMPACT RESISTANCE not fatigue and want to see EVIDENCE. This evidence is not provided in the white paper - only a paragraph on Page 9 and Page 10 alluding to it. That's why I could just skim the document. Maybe Spank has that data and can present it?
Also remember the White paper deals with handlebars -not rims.
Also lets put things in perspective - based on the comments rankings - we should stop this debate and push Spank develop and test a rim/handlebar that can store weed...........
Meanwhile, related but not he same stuff, check this Bastion Cycles 3D printed bottom bracket: medium.com/@everett.koh/melbourne-bastion-cycles-3c0450c50e8a
As for "adult stuff", since we're going down the "if you don't agree with me you're a child" path, How about admitting that you were wrong with your "snake oil" claim? Snake oil insinuates that the product has no benefit, while they have formal testing backing up their claims. Instead of admitting you were wrong, like an adult, you moved the goalposts, made the goalposts unreasonably specific, & entirely dismissed their isolated testing, which is LITERALLY THE ONLY WAY TO BACK UP A CLAIM ABOUT ONE COMPONENT OF A SYSTEM.
If we're talking about "adult stuff," rule one, on page one, of how to be an adult, is "admit when you were wrong."
"isolated bench numbers translates to any real world benefit is the definition of snake oil."
Really? Pretty sure the definition of snake oil is "bottles of fake cure-all sold by traveling salesmen in the 1800s without any testing to backup their claims, often with direct knowledge of the lack of efficacy of their products."
The very fact it has been tested in a controlled manner, & that those testing results have been published, contradicts your claim.
1) highjacking his radio station using a high powered fm transmitter (they're out there for around $60 but technically some sort of violation) and sending over something ridiculous...like the Barney song on repeat.
2) taking Bose wave cancelling headphones or something similar mounted on my fence...sending the speaker signal out to an amp and then to outdoor speakers also mounted on my fence pointed towards my house.
Why not both?
Old school thought was that stiffer is better, but when pros are having their wheels built with lower spoke tension and fork manufacturers are finding faster times on flexier stanchions, there's a lot to like about that rim. As a marathon and xc racer, comfort is everything.
The can if soda analogy isn't quite right as liquid doesn't compress. I'd like to see a test of the same rim with and without the foam.
You know you want to...
Is a can of beans stronger when the beans are still inside?
How many fatigue cycles will I save my body with this technology? And how many seconds in the race against time?
Fail.
...but the corrugated shaped OohBah rim bed is a pain in the A#$ for tubeless...it's a struggle to get rim tape (including Gorilla tape) to seal the spoke holes.
Also check out our video with tips and tricks to setting the tape up
m.youtube.com/watch?v=LWJ7RiDGYuc
Conclusion: Our test drives and our praxise impression on normal trails show no verifiable comfort gain. Nevertheless, we can not rule out that Vibrocore has a positive effect on very long and hard runs.
We've seen rims grow over the last few years to the point that a 30mm internal width, a number that was once unheard of, has become pretty dang normal"
Cmon Mike, the mag30 rim was available in 2000 - it is not anything as new as your poetic justice is cracking it up to be.
So some pro racers are using rims made out of CFRP (commonly called, "carbon") nowadays. I always thought it was because of the stiffness to weight ratio. Apparently not then, judging from the first bit of the article claiming that riders require more "give" (=elastic deformation?). Would it (the application of carbon, that is) be for (yield) strength over weight then? That would make me consider steel or even titanium. Agreed, harder to shape into complex (closed cross section) shapes but then again the production of carbon products isn't exactly easy either. How I understand it though is that riders seek a less stiff bike, somewhere between the dirt and handlebars and pedals. That's something very different from getting more vibration damping. It seems like this is commonly understood when people discuss suspension forks and shocks but when talking about materials, it all gets mixed up. Basically, I do think it is good to have damping in structural bike materials like frame, bars and wheels. And yeah, one solution is to add foam for damping. Hit an empty aluminium tube and it rings, fill it with foam and it sounds dull. I think it works. Important there though is that the foam doesn't go brittle over time, crumbles or loses its adhesion to the rim wall. I expect Spank has taken care of this but it does mean not everyone can fill their rims with random foam to get the same effect. There are other solutions, different rim material being the most obvious. Steel or titanium may have helped (though maybe not necessarily as effective or even cheap as aluminium) but the elephant in the room is, why don't the carbon rim manufacturers use a different resin. Considering the first section of the article, it seems there is no need for a more "glassy" type of thermoset resin as epoxy. Instead a more forgiving thermoplast could be a better solution. Maybe even different and/or shorter fibres, if you don't need the stiffness of carbon anyway. There is so much that could be done and the current composite rims are merely exploring it (and apparently not there yet so hold your wallets). All this said, considering aluminium extruded rims are already so well developed, foam filled seems to be the most viable solutions. I'm actually surprised to see so much skeptics in the comment section whereas carbon in the silliest places is just being accepted. Would I buy this? I typically prefer to be at the tail end of technological progress and only buy when something is mature and reliable. My main concern for this product would be the durability of the bond between the foam and the aluminium. If it breaks the rim still looks fine but you lose much of the damping properties. I'd love to see some corrugations to the inside wall of that cavity to help with bonding or at least with some mechanical interlocking of foam and alu. But if this product proves to be durable over the next year or so then yes, I'd get it. Much much more likely than spend it on the kind of carbon rim we currently see.
Spank- if you knew who it benefitted sales could be directed as such. Just supposing riders over 30yo felt the benefit but those under didn't...
With any luck these rims are a huge success and spank take over the world.
RIP carbon fibre.
— Gavin Vos, President of Spank Industries
Something to think about
Oh and 120psi takes about 4-5 seconds to completely seat AND inflate the tire. Done. No doubt it can be done with a track pump, hand pump, horse and buggy, or steam locomotive. But this is 2017 and I have technology. I don't need to waste time with rudimentary tools and I can be out riding in no time!
Happy reading...30 pages of tech shizzle...
I guess becauses it's patented, no one else bothered yet to spend extra money on innovation as long as the same old sh#t still sells...
Curious, what are his favorite wheels?
I use Spank rims and of all the brands they are the hardest to tape without leaking of the tape at the valve. I have developed some very creative ideas trying to prevent the lifting of the tape at the valve. I use 5 minute epoxy to fill the deep grooves on either side of the valve hole along with a cone shaped stone on my drill for the valve hole so it is round regardless of profile.. 100 percent success now for valves not leaking.
If the tire does leak to a few PSI, the bead doesn't lock on the bead bite and slides off with tight-ish bead tires.
The Spank rims are plenty stiff and light. If they went with a wider bite area at the bead they wouldn't need to use such a big diameter.
This could lead to some cool experiments, and I think that's kinda cool.
Yeah I do ride obviously.
Is a 5mm ish thick strip of foam going to stop a wheel from buckling err no obviously. Only way it would do that is if it was solid really solid but then it wouldn't damp the vibes and would add load extra weight and be the same a simply adding more metal.
Yanks really do get your knickers in a twist over some gentle piss taking.
Chill out maybe go watch some myth busters might learn something
"the foam is designed to filter out a lot of that high-frequency buzz that can tire riders out without them even realizing it" LMAO!!!!!!!! Marketing Bullshit 101 right there. WOOOOOOOW!
Cut the crap!