For a company whose mantra is “Innovate or Die,” Specialized's reluctance to enter the burgeoning mid-sized wheel market was slightly unexpected. When they finally did decide to release their 27.5” models, it was with little fanfare, lacking the splashy marketing campaign you'd expect from such a large company. This hesitance to fully get behind another wheel size was likely due in part to the efforts they'd spent on developing their line of 29ers, bikes that had earned them countless accolades, including Pinkbike's Bike of the Year for the Enduro 29. Whatever the case may be, the brand has now firmly stepped into the 27.5" arena, with models to cover everything from trail riding to DH racing.
The S-Works denotation on the Enduro 650B we tested signifies that it's Specialized's top of the line offering, a bike spec'd with all the bell and whistles, including a carbon front triangle, carbon wheels, a SRAM XX1 drivetrain, a 160mm RockShox Pike RCT3, and Cane Creek's new DBInline shock. Those high end goodies do add up, bringing the Enduro's price in at $9300 USD, but there are less expensive models available, including the base model aluminum version for $3600 and the base model carbon version for $6000.Specialized Enduro 650B Details
• Intended use: all-mountain / enduro race
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• Rear wheel travel: 165mm
• FACT IS-X 11m carbon front triangle, M5 aluminum rear triangle
• Cane Creek DBInline shock
• RockShox Pike RCT3 160mm fork
• Sizes: S, M, L
• Weight: 27.2 lb (size L w/o pedals)
• MSRP: $9300 USD
•
www.specialized.com @Specialized Frame and Suspension DesignThe Enduro 650B's frame isn't the complete redesign many expected to see when the bike was announced. Instead, it uses the same carbon front triangle that the 26” version uses, paired with a different chain stay, seat stay, and shock mount to accommodate the slightly larger wheels. The overall look of the bike remains unchanged as well, with Specialized's distinctive X-Wing frame shape that has the rear shock mounted in between the top and down tube, and then connected to the rear seat stays with a U-shaped mounting bracket.
The derailleur and brake housing are routed along the bottom of the down tube, a design that's seen a decrease in popularity with the recent resurgence of internal routing, but at the same time it's one that we haven't had any trouble with, and also allows for easy housing swaps. The housing for Specialized's own dropper post, the Command Post IR, does run internally down the seat tube, but it soon exits on the downtube and runs externally along the underside of the frame as well. The lever for the dropper post is a close replica of the lever shape used by SRAM for their shift levers, making it one of the most ergonomic designs out there.
SRAM's 1x drivetrains have proven to provide excellent chain retention even without any sort of guide, but for a little extra peace of mind Specialized has included minimalist upper chain guide that uses two out of the three ISCG 05 mounting points, a creative way to save a few grams while still providing plenty of security against dropping a chain.
It should come as no surprise that the Enduro uses Specialized's FSR Horst Link suspension layout, a proven design that places the rearmost pivot on the chain stay in order to minimize the effects of hard braking on the suspension. This design is part of the reason Specialized has been able keep the bike's chain stay length down to 422mm, since the chain stays mount directly to the front triangle rather than using some type of secondary link in between. The Enduro 650B also uses Specialized's own 142+ rear dropout spacing, which is intended to increase rear end stiffness. This spacing sees the driveside hub flange moved 2mm farther out, while the end cap on that side is shortened by 2mm, a design that's intended to provide a better spoke angle and to increase wheel stiffness. Don't fret, though, because a 'regular' 12x142 rear wheel will fit just fine if for some reason the stock wheelset gives up the ghost, although it's worth noting that a 142+ wheel won't work on a 12x142 frame.
Specifications
|
Price
|
$9300 |
|
Travel |
165mm |
|
Rear Shock |
Custom Cane Creek DB AIR Inline, high/low-speed compression and rebound adj., w/ climb switch, 8.5"x2.25" |
|
Fork |
Custom RockShox Pike RCT3 650b, Solo Air spring, tapered alloy steerer, w/ lockout, 2-stage compression, rebound adj., 15mm thru-axle, 160mm travel |
|
Cassette |
SRAM XX1, 11-speed, 10-42 |
|
Crankarms |
S-Works FACT carbon, custom XX1 chainring, OSBB, 34T, 104mm BCD spider |
|
Rear Derailleur |
SRAM XX1, 11-speed |
|
Chain |
SRAM PC 1195 |
|
Shifter Pods |
SRAM XX1, 11-speed, trigger |
|
Handlebar |
S-Works All-Mountain, low rise, carbon, 8-degree backsweep, 6-degree upsweep, 31.8mm |
|
Stem |
Syntace F109, 6-degree rise |
|
Grips |
Specialized Sip Grip |
|
Brakes |
SRAM Guide RS Carbon |
|
Wheelset |
Roval Traverse SL Fattie 650b, carbon, 30mm inner width, 24/28h |
|
Spokes |
DT Swiss Revolution |
|
Tires |
Specialized Butcher (F), Slaughter Control (R) |
|
Seat |
Body Geometry Henge Expert, hollow Ti rails, 143mm |
|
Seatpost |
Command Post IR, 3-position height adjustable 125mm |
|
| |
Climbing / Handling Our test bike came equipped with Specialized's 780mm S-Works carbon bars, a good choice given the bike's hard charging intentions, although the 70mm stem that the size large comes equipped with is an oversight – a 50 or even a 40mm stem would be more fitting for all sizes across the board. Suspension setup is fairly straightforward, and although the number of adjustments on the Cane Creek DBInline shock can seem daunting at first, the base tune that Specialized and Cane Creek have come up with is an excellent place to start before turning any dials. Cane Creek have their reasons for forgoing tool-free adjustment option on their shocks, but it'd still be nice to not need to take out a tool for every adjustment.
165mm of travel, a 65.5 degree head angle – look at those numbers and you're probably thinking the Enduro will be another addition to growing “Mediocre climber, comes alive on descents” genre. That's a reasonable expectation, but the truth is, the Enduro 650B is an excellent climber, especially on the chunky, technical stuff, the type of obstacles that Sedona's trails were full of. Initially, I'd felt certain I'd be using the Climb Switch feature that's found on the Cane Creek DBInline shock, where the flick of a lever adds more compression damping while also slowing the rebound to aid with climbing. In reality, I found the feel of the shock in Climb mode to be too harsh for my liking, especially in the full 'On' position – it took away the grip that helped the bike climb so well. This hasn't been the case with other Climb Switch equipped shocks that I've been on in the past, and the custom tune that Cane Creek provides for Specialized may have been the reason for the different feeling. It was also a little tricky to actually reach the Climb Switch lever since the shock is hidden from view by the top tube of the frame. Luckily, the bike's pedaling performance with the shock fully open is nothing to scoff at, and I was surprised more than once by how the bike could clamber up menacing-looking walls of rock without any trouble. The bike's light weight certainly deserves partial credit, but it was the way the rear wheel hugged the ground without losing traction, even during hard, out of the saddle efforts that made the Enduro 650B so capable on the climbs.
Depending on your local terrain and fitness level, the 34t front chain ring may end up feeling a little tall - I was fine with it in Sedona, but I typically run a 32 tooth ring to help with the long, steep and sustained climbs in my neck of the woods back in the Pacific Northwest. Also, since there's no direct mount option on the S-Works carbon cranks a 30 tooth chainring will be the lowest gear option that's possible.
DescendingThe Enduro has a Clark Kent / Superman-like personality, one that's mild mannered and easygoing one minute and then transforms into a full-blown superhero the next. This is a bike that's just as comfortable cruising along at a casual pace as it is blasting through technical sections of trail at warp speed. Achieving this level of versatility can be a difficult feat, especially on a bike with 165mm of travel, but Specialized have done it, creating a bike with easy handling at slower speeds that can also be pushed hard on gnarly terrain without skipping a beat. The short, 422mm chain stays make quick direction changes a breeze, and when you combine that with the bike's weight, you've got a lively, nimble machine on your hands. The bike's ride height does feel a touch taller than some of the more low-slung, ground hugging offerings that have recently hit the market, but cornering was still quick and precise, and I didn't have any trouble moving the bike around underneath me in steep, chopped up terrain.
When it comes time to get airborne the Enduro shines as well, with minimal effort required to hop from one side of the trail to the other. There's a liveliness that encourages doubling up trail features and looking for obstacles to bunny hop over, while at the same time bike's suspension has a way of smoothing out rough sections of trail in a way that encourages going faster and faster. I plowed through every shape and size of rock imaginable, but the Enduro refused to get bogged down, even when faced with repeated square edged hits, the type that can easily cause a shock to pack up and lose its responsiveness. However, we did run into an issue with the DBInline shock - it lost its rebound damping after only a couple day of hard riding. Cane Creek quickly sent out a replacement, and after swapping out the faulty shock, it was smooth sailing once again. When it's working properly, the DBInline has a smooth yet supportive feel that's one of the best around, and not just for an inline shock either - its performance is on par with the top reservoir-style shocks on the market as well.
Component Check• Specialized Roval Fattie SL Wheelset: Wide, light, and as it turns out, strong, the Roval Fattie SL carbon wheels held their own in the desert, even when faced with miles of chunky sandstone that perfectly demonstrate the phrase 'square edged hit.' On more than one occasion the sound of a carbon rim smacking against sandstone had me fearing the worst, but each time the wheels remained true and unscathed. They did occasionally emit a 'thwang' noise under hard cornering or heavy braking that seemed to come from the straight pull spokes, but this didn’t seem to have any adverse affects. We currently have another set on hand for an even longer term test where they'll be subjected to the harsh conditions of a Pacific Northwest winter, but given their excellent performance in the desert there's no reason to think that they won't perform just as well.
• Specialized Command Post IR: It was the Command Post's lever that won me over, a near mirror image of the SRAM shifter on the right side of the bars. It's the most intuitive remote lever I've used, and the lack of a hydraulic line and the fact the it sits under the bar gives it a much greater chance of surviving a crash. I'd still like to see the post offered with an infinite number of stopping points instead of the three positions it currently has, but other than that nitpick the post worked well, with a quick return rate and a solid feel.
• Specialized Slaughter Tire: The Slaughter was an excellent tire for the hardpacked to dusty desert conditions we ran into during the test period, with even more grip than I'd expected. Even when it does lose traction it remains predictable, and it doesn't take long to figure out how to break it free to slide through a turn for even quicker cornering. Riders whose terrain tends to be wet and extremely steep will likely want something a little more substantial, but the range of conditions that the Slaughter is useful in is greater than its appearance belies.
• Cane Creek DBInline: As was mentioned previously, the DBInline is one of the best feeling rear air shocks currently on the market, but unfortunately ours only lasted two days before losing its rebound damping for the first third of its stroke. We didn't run into any issues with the replacement that Cane Creek sent out, but it's too bad that such a stellar performer seems to be having durability issues. Cane Creek is currently evaluating the shock to determine what went wrong, and this review will be updated when more information is available.
Pinkbike's Take: | Let's deal with the elephant in the room first, the number that many will see as an exorbitant sum of money: $9300. Yep, this an expensive bike - that's what happens when you spec a bike with high end suspension, SRAM's top of the line 1x drivetrain, and a set of carbon hoops. But remember, this is the flagship in Specialized's line, an eye catching aluminum and carbon creation that's meant to be the best of the best, with no cost spared in making the highest performing machine possible. That's why Specialized offers other versions, ones that are still well equipped but are less likely to require a visit to the pawn shop to find out the going rate for a kidney. The Expert Carbon is the next model down, with a very similar spec minus the carbon wheels, and a retail price of $2,700 less.
So, price aside, what about the bike itself - did Specialized succeed in creating a bike that can hold its own in the top tier of the all-mountain arena? If success can be measured by the number of smiles the Enduro's performance elicited, the answer is a resounding 'yes.' Whether climbing or descending (especially descending), the Enduro 650b is a treat to ride, and as an added bonus it feels at home on a broader range of terrain than some of the more race-oriented specialists out there, which means you don't need to have steep, rugged mountains with thousands of feet of vertical in order to have a good time on the trail. - Mike Kazimer |
Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review.
People will be blinded by a reviewer giving the edge to one bike over another - but the fact is that the "best between x and y" is subjective, and highly dependant on various factors.
Also, if you;re dropping this kind of money, you would be kinda stupid not to at least try 2 of the bikes on your shortlist, and figure what's "best" for you.
www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6513
www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6637
Simple things such as compare the given weight to the actual weight (they did this for wheel sets)
Components comparison.
Price.
These all count for nothing unless they have other bikes to compare to.
If I was going to spend 10K $ on a bike these are the things I looked at. My last bike was just over 3.4K £, so things such as "will I be selling the avids for zee" and "will I make any changes to the other components" were only possible by doing the comparison myself. Most of the reviews were similar, this is a good bike, this other bike is also a good bike. Nothing much about what I got for my money if I looked at more than one bike.
I do like the very indepth review pinkbike gives, please dont take any of that away but It would be nice to see a small comparison tables at the end.
bought a new spesh stumpy evo last February, seatpost was faulty inside 4 weeks of British winter - wouldn't sit in any position with your weight on the seat which is more than pretty annoying when on a climb with bobs and bumps/ruts etc.
had it sent to spesh by LBS - came back 3 weeks later apparently fixed, worked for approx. 4 weeks, then went again, this time failing to hold air pressure for more than one ride, sent back again, came back apparently fixed 3-4 weeks later. all good then on the service although they could have been faster or replaced it with a new one......after 2 months it went again - so sick of sending it off I just spent the latter part of the 2014 season pulling it up when i wanted it up and having to place it in position with my hands when lowering it mid trail......I was told they need servicing to stop this from happening - BS ! a service should not happen every 4 weeks regardless how many muddy miles you are doing.
just bought a reverb - - hoping for better
So... just ride what you like. Really.
@Sontator - it only depends if you like that kind of thing, I don't say it's a wrong, it's just that I personally really don't like comparisons if Canon is better than Nikon, Mac or PC... Pinkbike conneseurs? Wow I didn't realize, sounds flattering Now if you look at NAHMBS... if you'd review THOSE bikes, then you'd have variety of opinions among testers, but don't expect that from reviews of mass produced bikes like the Enduro above. Cynical - always! Cynicism is a creative yet defensive act of being helpless in the face of a happening you cannot do anything about
I just want the fastest one.
Pinkbike is sent the bike by the company. I don't believe they have much choice in what they get. And specialized can't be blamed for wanted to show off their masterpiece. The frame geo is the same so this still gives you an idea of how it'll ride.
we have this strange thing called testing, find a dealer, arrange a day or weekend, ride the bike/s on trails you know and love. you will soon discover that the bike you think you want, may or not be the bike you actually want.
the test riders opinions are still valid, but "climbs like a X" "and "descends like a Y" "turns like a Z" etc is entertaining but probaly due in large part to the setup and the rider in many ways.
one thing I would like to see a bit more of is more in-depth comment of the specific design features,compatability and service requirements etc. and the
possible benefits/pitfalls of them from the testers, most decent bikes can be dialed to suit any riders taste/style and go up/down/sideways adequately
might help to make the short list shorter, and don't see why it would upset the advertisers
Apparently the problem isn't big enough that it needs fixing, but in my opinion it's just asking for trouble. This type of bike obviously isn't the most likely to get hung up on stumps/rocks or throw up big big rocks from the front wheel - but it does happen! I could easily see sticks and shit like that getting caught in that mess of cables though.
1) Pull all of the slack out of the cables toward the front of the bike (I mean ALL) after cables are tightly attached to rear triangle with zipties.
2) LOOSELY clamp the cables with the downtube clamp nearest the bottom bracket.
3) Push the rear suspension through it's complete travel a couple of times. This pulls a little of each cable back to give the minimum amount of slack.
4) Tighten the downtube clamps, DONE. No cutting required.
There is a minimum amount of slack needed, otherwise you get funny shifts when the suspension moves. The picture above is way more slack than necessary and is just a lazy setup.
I then cut the slack at the control end, but this is optional, unless you have big loops of excess cable.
Lots of rocks here!
@keyul- I wouldn't tie the two or three cables together,their stronger and its better to rip one cable than all of them
It's inexcusable that they are just ignoring common sense. I can just picture one of their managers saying, "we don't need a frame protector, the brake line will stop rock impacts!"
fwiw I really wish they weren't there and were hidden away......damn you spesh you cheap ass mofo's sort your sh#* out
#SpeshSortYourShitOut
However, I wouldn't give Specialized any plaudits in the first place for sticking with 26/29, they make great bikes, granted, but they are as much money oriented as any company (even more so than some of the smaller ones) and I'm sure their initial push back against 27.5 was a subtle marketing ploy in the first place.
There is no perfect bike for anyone. It has to be determined by where you ride most regularly and what you actually WANT most from the bike.
insane speed, grip, ascending, descending, granted they are not for everybody, then again neither are 26 inch versions of this or any other bike.
I've no problem with 29er, I'm sure it makes a lot of sense for taller people, but I strongly believe that there is a kind of ratio between user mensuration and wheel size that discard 29er for not so tall people, as well as 26 wheels for taller people.
So finally I demoed a Devinci Troy, a Kona Process and bought the Troy.
Sure if spesh released the 27.5 version at this time, my choice would have been different.
I totally agree. Only one wheel size to fit the whole variety of human body height, shape and weight is a non-sense (except for scale savings).
A real progress will be to conserve the three wheel size in the future, not to try to impose one over the others.
That's a bit what happen with spesh, last year 26 and this year 27.5 enduro shares the same front triangle, 29er stumpy and 27.5 shares the same front triangle too (and the fact that the 27.5 stumpy gets a head angle of 68.5° (!) is no problem for spesh).
Talking about savings, spesh usally update it's frame line-up each two years, meaning new carbon molds, new structural studies, frame certifications, etc... each 2 years.
Following this, they theoritically had to update in 2015, but they didn't.
Instead of what, 27.5 bikes appeared, based for half on already existing frame, with conservation of the 2013 enduro 29 and stumpy 29 frames...
One last funny thing, 2014 and 2015 enduro comp spec are the same, except that C1 formula brakes on 2014 are replaced by deore in 2015 (which are 100$/brake cheaper than C1 on CRC), and 2015 lost its front derailleur, one front ring and front derailleur shifter.
Despite that, 2015 is 100$ more expensive than 2014.
Damn inflation.
This the whole point why this industry push to 27.5 was such a cynical money grab. It isn't THAT much of a change from 26, but as sold as this amazing thing (which it isn't). 29ers are definitely a different thing and have significant advantages and few disadvantages but at least provide a real measurable change in characteristics.
I don't really give a shit about 27.5 wheeled bikes. I may buy one someday, but it will have nothing to do with the wheels size. I will probably go with 29" on my next FS bike because I am learning to like the way they ride and the promises of better stiffness from 148mm axles (coming) and wide light CF rims.
A 29" could ride very similar to a 650b if the geometry was compromised enough. The Enduro 29" was compromised to feel more 26". Head angle/wheelbase/bb drop. Subsequently it's feels more nimble at slow speed than the Nomad IMO. People who find them hard to manoeuvre tend to come from a trail/XC background. They're definitely not as hard to manoeuvre as a long, low 26" DH bike. Funny enough nobody had an issue hauling those tanks around.
Have you ever considered the ratio between the bicycle weight and a rider's weight ?
Have you ever considered the effect of a shorter stem or of the position of your feets on the pedal on the mass distribution, as well as the immense variety of body shapes ? Same for bb height, given a riders habits, compression tune of the shock, pedal thickness, more or less sag, rider's inseam, etc... it is an illusion to think that you can fine tune the mass location.
Head angles, wheelbase and wheelbase to chainstay ratio makes sense in that they allow to define the overall bike handling whatever the rider's mensurations, and mass distribution is just a consequence of these choices. That's why the Nomad feels more planted at low speed (longer WB, CS and slacker HA). Any bike with steeper HA, shorter WB and lower WB/CS than the Nomad will feel nimble at slow speed, and that is the case of the enduro 29. But as soon you accelerate, (non-linear) increase of wheel inertia and gyroscopic effect cannot be compensated by (static) angles.
bb height as to be dropped on a 29er in order to compensate for the increased height of the center of Gravity due to increased ground to hub distance (relatively to a 26er), and then maintain it in the same value than a 26er.
So as a comparison, if the Enduro 29 doesn't feel as nimble as the enduro 26, it has nothing to do with mass location, but mostly wheel inertia. The only way to compensate for it is to increase the lever action to the center of inertia (hub), that's to say increase your bar width. But, of course, this only work for the front wheel.
That's why "geometry" tuning of 29ers is a kind of an hoax since all the trick is -given wheel size- to set the geometry the closest as possible to a bike with smaller wheels, and that's why so much effort is spent in making lighter tires and wheels for 29ers, by spesh in particular.
FWIW I run dual ply minion DH tyres on my stumpy 29....I can tell you now that its very very easy to move around. rider style, strength, flexibility etc etc all go into how a rider perceives the bikes handling, I don't mind the extra weight for the abuse I give the tyres, i get much more in return.
Gnralized, you are incorrect regarding mass location. If you don't think 40mm of BB drop doesn't make a massive difference to bike handling I suggest some more reading. Especially on compound pendulums.
Here's another fact, imagine a bicycle with a third wheel with twice the mass of one of the others rotating in the opposite direction. By your reasoning that bike with have zero gyroscopic energy and would be highly unstable. Guess what? It rides identical with the third wheel installed or removed.
I'm not sure what you mean by "low and fast"?
I kind of agree regarding the steep tight stuff. I think the head angle should be a degree slacker to be honest. You have to work out it's strengths though. There are times when I'm behind guys on good 650b's and it just rolls up behind them like they have their brakes on.
I agree regarding the suspension. They got the kinematics bang on.
I own both a top-of-the line YT and Canyon, and there is no way in hell I'm trading any of them in for a Specialized, Santa Cruz, Trek, etc. They are both examples of brilliant German engineering, they stand out in the crowd AND they are actually worth their price.
I understand why people are skeptical though, as I was years back: "How can a bike at half the price be as good as that $10.000 bike? Yes, the components are the same, but they MUST have cut corners elsewhere then?"
The truth, however, is that we were just so used to being f*cked over that we didn't even realize how sore our asses were! Specialized's profit margin is ridiculously high, and that is the only reason that their bikes are so expensive. It's not R&D, it's not the high-end 3rd party components, it's not those sexy carbon or billet aluminium pieces - because other companies are doing the same at half the retail price. It's nothing but greed.
But when it comes to big 'S' - wow-effect all over. And not only MTBs, road as well. These guys thinks on a different level. Well - I agree that base models are compromise and hard to upgrade somtimes, but nevertheless the feeling is "Spesh".
If no one was talking about it, how would people (especially newcomers to the sport) become informed? Isn't discussion, whether it's about function, reliability, comfort, price, etc. the EXACT point of having a forum such as Pinkbike? To unite people with a common interest and learn from each other?
If no one was pointing out that product X (in their personal opinion) isn't worth it's price, poorly constructed or otherwise flawed, then how would a less informed individual learn this information?
You could easily argue that you get two fully loaded Nissan GT-Rs for the price of a single base Turbo 911. So, why does anybody buy those overrated overpriced Porsches anyway?
Now for the funny thing: People wouldn't buy the 911 if it just cost just $50k. As simple as that. Porsche is a premium brand and people who look into buying Porsches expect to be charged what Porsche charges them.
Next. Apple could product the iPhone for much less and would still earn a premium with it. They don't do it, however. Ever wondered why?
The final price is not a calculated by summing up the price of the components. That doesn't make sense. Specialized is a premium brand and charges as such. As simple as that. If you feel that's too expensive, fine. Don't buy the big S then.
As far as customer service goes, YT Industries is by far the best company I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Last year I received a complete hub and axle rebuild kit for the e*thirteen LG1 wheels on my TUES WC Edition, because the freehub could potentially (as in a couple on known cases worldwide) lock up if not serviced and maintained correctly. They even offered me to return the wheel and kit id I didn't knew how to perform the work - all free of charge. This year (two years after I bought the bike) I received a new Rental Integra stem from YT, because stems from that period could potentially have a weakness due to off tolerances. Again, totally free of charge and on YT's own incentive.
Unlike most companies it seems like they actually care about their customers and reputation, and do their best to solve problems before they even occur.
My point: A bike doesn't have to cost $10.000 to come with great customer service.
@tomtom80 - Yes, but Porsches and iPhones aren't bikes, are they now? They are highly customized products, designed and build from the grown by the manufacturer and/or their OEM suppliers - and in case of the iPhone, part of a very elaborative ecosystem and "free" software that all has to be paid for somehow. Bikes, on the other hand, are build primarily from off-the-self parts, and the only thing that makes them "special" is the frame.
I can assure you that Porsche wouldn't be able to charge the prices they do, if all they did was stick 3rd party off-the-shelf parts on their own platform.
It would be sweet if we had access to them but for now we'll continue to support our local shops to pay slightly more for the same thing. I paid $5,000 for my Spec Enduro Carbon Expert.
@katmai I see Specialized reversing their stance on 27.5 as a willingness to admit they were wrong. The fact that they were able to utilize an existing carbon mold is relatively simple geometry, not lack of effort. I'd be willing to wager that there were grumpy people at Specialized eager to roll out this bike sooner knowing that it would be a great option in their line-up.
having seen and ridden YT bikes often I can assure you, there is a difference. mostly build quality. they also have a lot of quality issues during first model launches...
after buying a Yeti (first with a lot of hesitation because of the price) and I held the frame in my hands for the first time, this difference occurred to me. the haptics, details and beauty are a different world than YT (and even speci, giant etc.) and you do get "more" for your money. is it a lot more? is it worth it? from a rational perspective, probably not. but I just love it. I couldn't go back.
BUT, in all fairness: looking at specialized frames, they are nowhere near the haptics of a Yeti and so it is just more irrational to ask for this price... these mass produced frames are all very similar ragarding haptics and details.
same goes for the car analogy: when you have driven or even just sat in a porsche, beemer or merc you suddenly realize the quality. and you start to appreciate it.
Could that, perhaps, be because the famous mid size isn't exactly innovative?
But off course I am a biased lunatic, I believe in significant superiority of a man over machine and relate all bicycle design to particular feature that characterizes human kind above other species, thing that made us the rulers of this planet: adaptability
@Vanguard - yea, it seems so.
£2800 - frame
£550 - forks
£750 - groupset
£1200 - wheels
£250 - brakes
-------
£1500 for a finishing kit? Something doesn't add up...
wish people would stop saying "high end spec" when it has pikes, they are the cheapest fork you can get, zocchi, fox and BOS are all more high end
Unless you 100% create something for yourself, you're never going to buy a product from a company and only pay them the exact amount they used in materials to make it. There are so many other costs that a company has that drives up the price of any product they make. Because remember, at the end of the day they are a company and their goal is to do what? Make money. And remember, comparing bicycles and cars is completely irrelevant solely due to the demand and numbers produces. How many people in the world spend $15000 on a car at least once in their lifetime? Now how many people mountain bike at a lever where they'd even remotely consider spending >$1000?
I get that the spec is top notch but the use of older molds for the carbon parts of the frame means that they save quite a bit of money. Savings that don't get passed to the potential buyer.
@timkoerber
this grim creation? It just felt so wrong to ride. Probably the first Specialized bike I've jumped on for a test ride and thought "Yuk!"
www.pinkbike.com/photo/10781376
Coming from a 26" Enduro (2010), I was recently in the market for a 650b trail/enduro bike and went with Giant for the reasons above. If Specialized put in the time, money and effort they did with the Enduro 29er, I think this would be getting much better reviews and accolades. Oh, and they would have kept me as a customer.
Now this is a complete review! I don't give a s..... if the the S-Works rides like a dream. Of course it does and it should ......
Pinkbike get serious with the reviews and give us what we actually want to know......
Please do a review of some lower cost enduro bikes, there are international viewers too, not just Canadian, and American, but even for a lot of them these bikes are very expensive (as a lot of comments are proved this).
Commencal's Meta AM V4 is a serous contender with the 2000€ price range, or ROSE Uncle Jimbo, even Canyon's new Strive...
I bet a lot of folks would appreciate that too.
Apart from this, this is still a WANT NOW bike, and a good review..
But I 100% agree with a Meta AM V4 review!!! It's so far at the top of my list for my new bike, but there's hardly any ride info out there! I meant there are a few reviews on how it handles but I want more convincing before I pull trigger.
Anyway if your curious I found a video of Nico Quéré shredding on the Meta V4, there's only a minute of riding in the video but it is awesome riding!
www.26in.fr/videos/megavalanche-reunion-2014-ni.html
The v4 am has a sleek design, and I dont like 150 travelled bike, I believe in 160 for my application but it seems to be nice, if I could buy one lower model, I just swap the brakes and the shock for a Monarch plus and its good to me..
I think the reviews are just as subjective as the PB ones but sometimew it's nice with some euro bias for a refresing change.
Unfortunately, they just don't have the cash to buy the bikes outright generally, & therefore have to depend on review samples from the company.
ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11799716/p4pb11799716.jpg
i'm not sure you guys are interested to hear a Bronson C vs. Enduro 27.5 comparison but here goes...
-both have the DB inline shock
-rear end is shorter on the Enduro, i reused the same chain that was on the bronson (the chain was recently replaced) and had to shorten a few links.
-both are L frames. The L Bronson is like a medium for other companies...the L Enduro has a reach nearly the same as the XL Bronson. Being a lanky 6'2", i felt more comfortable and centered on the L Enduro.
-the Enduro frame is a tad heavier than the Bronson C
-the ride was alittle surprising. I used to have a 2010 Spec Stumpy FSR and ditched it because it felt inefficient climbing or hammering the flats. This current FSR kinematic on the Enduro has very little of that. I agree with Mike that I would only feel the need to engage the CS on an extended climb.
-flickability and cornering is at least on par with the Bronson. easy directional changes, and holds the corner very neutrally, even tho it is slacker.
-I did not take it on any gnarly downhills (as I am still healing/recovering from an achilles injury), but the FSR outshines the Bronson VPP on the easy downhills I did ride. I was running a pretty conservative XC-ish sag at 20-25%, and the rear end felt supple and responsive to the chatter but great support through the entire stroke. The VPP on trail bikes and with an airshock has a sort of unsupported dead zone on big hits. It had great small bump sensitivity, but on fast square edge hits or landing to flat inadvertently, it would just blow thru the midstroke.
In summary, I thus far like the FSR Enduro. I would love to compare this to the Ibis HDR. I hope to update this summer after some solid time on it...
Is it posible to recycle a carbon fiber frame ?
I think that's what everyone wants to know...
P.S. Stop complaining about prices people, Pinkbike reviews what they get and the companies just dont give them their lesser equiped bikes.
FYI that's not written in stone Mike. I've been a running Roval DH 142+ wheels on my 2013 Trek Slash for the last 2 seasons hard and fast.
I think everyone would rather see reviews of these bike models in there more affordable builds as well. Side by side. I want to know how good these ride without all the carbon. Then you could explain to us just how different they feel and how much performance is lost.
Personally this bike in the 29er base model is on my hit-list of wagon wheeler's but its a gamble to buy one based on the review's of the highest priced models.And thats all ive been seeing.
I know its not PB fault every manufacturer wants their top dog at the show but throw us mutts a bone we can chew on,
I know 2mm may not be a big deal, but I want my rim dished properly dammit! Hence, why I am never buying a 142+ bike. Proprietary can kiss my ass.
So in a word my shifting could be better but holds when Its needed so far, and those 2mm are a bitch. Strong wheels though.
While I love mine (working well on a low leverage ratio 140mm travel bike), I would worry about it on the Enduro.
Brilliant. And applicable to quite a lot of today's big business if you think about it.
.-)
this bike is great ... but expensive
I am interetsed in your choice of words Mike, and would like to ask a question if I may, about your inclusion of the word "carbon" in that sentence. By including it, it could be read to mean that you were thinking "God, this rim is Carbon, I hope its OK"...
Were you fearing the worst becuase
a) the hit was big enough to warrant a "Lordy, that's torn it" on any rim, carbon, alloy or other?
b) the hit was on a set of carbon hoops?
Also, do you think you would have included the word "Alloy" in the equivalent sentence had it been, say a Stan's Flow?
We get to hear a lot about how xxxx is as strong as / stronger than / more flexible than yyyy etc etc, so It would be interesting to hear what someone who gets to ride a lot of bikes takes into consideration when writing....Thanks.
Until YT Industries becomes a global brand and competes in every market, rather than just their safe little corner of the world, you cannot compare their prices directly. Buy YT if you want, but you can't compare them fairly with any brand that sells in a market they won't touch.
"With a combined population of over 500 million inhabitants,[23] or 7.3% of the world population,[24] ..."
That's about the same population as North America. Neither one is a particularly huge market on the global scale. I supppose both buy more "stuff" in general than our fair share per capita, but we're just not that big. Nothing I said was in any way a shot at Europeans.
The fact is, YT is not (currently) a global brand, so until they have a few years of facing the same pressures and challenges of serving a lot of varied markets, you can't fairly compare them directly. It's easy to be cheap when you don't serve the more difficult markets.
BTW… 5 grand is daydreaming!!
With 650B as close to 26" as it is:
If you're racing, an E29 will be the more competitive choice in most situations.
For the fun of flickability, go smaller wheels, but then, ideally go all the way to 26", because the 650B version's wheelbase is actually bigger than the E29's.
The bike climbs brilliantly. I have found the command post to be really solid and you can hike it really high, lock out the rear shock (if you need to) and hammer it up trails...coming from an xc background I have to say that this really surprised me. Descents are mega fun though. This thing takes a serious amount of punishment and you can plough over/through pretty much anything that your skill levels will allow. In fact its so good that I am taking myself off on a skills course to practice my big jumps so I can do more and more, really this thing can handle anything - just look at the YouTube series following Curtis Keene in this seasons EWS if you want proof!
I don't ever buy into the really technical aspects of bike reviews because thats just not my language. But if you want a bike that is serious fun, gives you a ton of confidence, climbs great and will handle pretty much anything you can throw at it then I can't recommend the Enduro enough. For the Specialized haters, you should re-consider because this thing looks the bomb, isn't actually 'too expensive' if you buy the right model and trust me it gets a lot of compliments and attention out on the trails. But the main thing is that it just puts a massive smile on my face!
Next stop, the alps
I rode the E29 and loved it and was really looking forward to see how the 650b felt in comparison going back to back. But, the 650b tried to throw me over the bars on the first jump I hit. I quickly took the bike back and got on something else. I assumed someone messed with the rebound on a previous ride. Interesting to hear what Cane Creek will have to say on this.
but way way too expensive like most bikes now, you cant justify car price tags for push bikes its simple as that, plus 90% people on here wouldnt tell the difference between this and a bike half the price back to back
also i doubt you would have any less smile at the end of a run on a cheaper model, unless its an ego thing in which case u got it for the wrong reasons anyway
ive been into bikes for best part of 30 years now but can barely afford to enjoy my lifelong hobby thanks to insane pricing , old low end bikes.. like most things now joe average is pushed out
still its a spesh so it would get my vote
Wahhahaahhaa, I cannot believe this is actually a common english expression. Do people really say that?
I have to admit though, after the rethinking, I've done it all and it actually felt alright, just a bit faster..'cos the braking didn't do quite as much as I'm used to. And I do brake too much. Still, I think it[the tire]'d possibly make me faster, but a lot more likely to crash.
That said the Control sidewalls keep burping my tire so I've ordered the Grid casing.
i bet it handles better than this $9300 'mid wheeler'
Some editing needed
What a Shame!
. First Nov. Then Jan, now March (FFS).
Plenty of people out there with the money to pay for the "halo" models; but the big companies make great mid-range bikes for mere mortals or those with more sense than money.
The "value" in most consumer products (whether a bicycle, motorbike, laptop computer, smart phone, etc.) is always the 'mid range' product, not the high-end or entry level model