Spotted: New Shimano XTR
Jolanda Neff was out on course today with what looks to be a new XTR drivetrain on her Kross full suspension race bike.
These images today from Nové Mesto, the Czech round of the XC World Cup taking place this weekend show what looks like a new version of Shimano’s XTR groupset.
The crankset looks similar to previous XTR, but more refined and with what looks to be a direct mount single chainring. Maybe Shimano has finally given up on the 2x front chainring idea? There is also a distinct lack of a front chain guide on this particular bike, even though most narrow/wide chainrings do a good job with chain retention, most racers will now use a lightweight guide for belt-and-braces safety, maybe there is a new retention design that gives racers the confidence to drop the guide?
We can see the cassette has a wide range, but I can't count more than 11-sprockets on that cassette, but there could well be another small sprocket tucked behind the dropout of that Kross bike. The smaller chunk of the cassette looks like it could be made from one piece, and the larger three sprockets are pinned together.
Surely 12 speed is the only option if the big blue S wants to challenge the big red S for the huge trail and enduro bike market that SRAM has taken a stranglehold on over the last few years.
The rider was caught mid-gear change as she tried to make a getaway from the paparazzi.
The derailleur also appears to have a clutch, but it is hard to tell whether or not there is an on/off lever that we are used to seeing on Shimano mechs.
What else can we deduce from the photo? The rear brake is blurry, but the brake hose is now connected on the inboard side of the caliper, whereas the old XTR was connected on the outside. There are no finned brake pads on these brakes, but I hope they are still an option to match the IceTec rotors.
And according to Nicolas Vouilloz's Instagram page, something new is ready to drop from Shimano tomorrow – 25.5.18
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>i commute to work office 5km away by bike, why would anyone ever need a car
thats pretty much what you just said
Watch Lance talk gearing, and how you couldn't show up to a race with small gears back in the day.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwZtTgt1AbA
10-45 would suit my riding perfectly with 34 on the front, just hope that cassette isn't too heavy
I live in Northern California. I can ride UP tyrolean downhill with a 28 cog/32 chain ring. On my 38lb dh bike. I'm no olympian either.
It's not the derailleur or cassette. It's getting enough sleep, eating right, dead lifting, yoga, stopping after one beer, always eating your wheaties...
New gear and bigger cogs...I've seen 70 year olds with walking sticks blow past guys on $7k bikes spinning and sweating there way up the hill in their magical 42t+ cog.
Not liking what zero said doesn't make him wrong.
instagram.com/p/Bi4KzhfHZdK
Nothing wrong with 10, 9 8 or what ever. It just the shit talking and bitching PB'ers love to do on anything that is new or different is getting so old. Hell, live in Florida and ride Eagle or live in Nepal and ride a fixie single fully rigid. Just everyone stop with the shit talking on every component or new bike that comes out that doesn't appeal to them. Pinkbike is a bike blog/website. The are supposed to report on and hype when ever the newest widget is. Ok, rant over.....rubber side down everyone.
Cheers
Ok, got it.
@bman33
I also don’t care about Colorado, lots of people climb lots of hills and think it’s impressive. It isn’t, harden up. Everyone thinks their local trails are hard. No body cares, work harder.
Big range is excellent, stoked on it. No more 2x/3x stuff. Allows you to get gearing that works for you, want an impossibly easy climbing gear? Done. Or you want some top end? Done.
On the sales side, not having to debate the merits of 1x vs the loss of climbing range on an old 2/3x system. So much better.
One day people will learn that climbing a hill never gets easier. You just go faster.
I’m kidding just flipping the script. I like progress as well.
Except they happened to drop this in the other release. I happen to be of the same mindset. Can't really argue with people pushing back on something they would get paid to ride.
I'm sure those sponsored riders will fluctuate between chosen cassette on different courses over time.
Shimano: The numbers all go to 51. Look, right across the board, 51, 51, 51 and...
Journo: Oh, I see. And most 12spd go up to 50?
Shimano: Exactly.
Journo: Does that mean it's better? Is it any better?
Shimano: Well, it's one better, isn't it? It's not 50. You see, most blokes, you know, will be spinning at 50. You're on 50 here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on 50 on your cassette. Where can you go from there? Where?
Journo: I don't know.
Shimano: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Journo: Put it up to 51.
Shimano: 51. Exactly. One better.
Journo: Why don't you just make 50 better and make the chain ring different and make that a little better?
Shimano: [pause] These go to 51.
The Eagle has a big 8 tooth gap to get in the easiest gear, if you look at those screenshots of the shimano casette, the jumps between the easiest three gears is 6 teeth each.
Love that Stuff.
Pinkbike is playing dumb like they have no idea of the 12speed coming out or have had pictures ready to go for tomorrow. These posts are the worst kind of marketing to me.
How much do you want to bet they will have first ride impressions tomorrow?
I read about 10-45t 11-Speed XTR.
And that pretty much sums up how big a joke SRAM is to me.
All over new XTR group.
Freewheel body is new.
New discs.
Chainring looks narrow-wide.
Lots of center lock.
Is that another new i-spec mount as well!!
Shimano, since for whatever reason you still make those non-silver face of the crank arm (like 970 980) I hope you guys sell XTR cranks with thick plastic tape like Sram does with their carbon cranks. Because it sucks to see a top tier product, look like old worn out 960 series, just 2 months after installing it to the bicycle. I just see your top cranks around, including stuff like ultegra, looking scraped, come on... you make possibly best cranksets out there, I personally believe they are THE best, but this finish wearing out is just a genuine shame. It hurts my eyes. Also the plastic clutch lever. On SLX, XT, fine - but XTR? Come on, show me you care.
Direct mount chainring - yes! Narrow Wide - yes! Chain lock - yes!
All the best, great stuff!
New XTR is still going to be several months away. The manufacturers will get top priority for next year model bikes. Let's hope that doesn't mean there could be shortage of individual items early on (like we saw with new Dura-Ace last year).
www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-105-5800slx-m7000-hg601q-11sp-chain
it will be on chain reaction for 50% off next week, cheaper than any small bike shop can bring in.
Or they'll have a 6% mark up on it so small bike shops can't compete!
We want XTR M9100 to be rad. We want to ride it. But if this is going to be the usual Shimano BS release of vapourware that ends up on Chain Reaction at 45% off before it's even available from a North American distributor (including Shimano Canada/USA) Shimano should just give up on pretending mountain biking is a product category they care about and/or are interested in and focus on road product.
I want this stuff to be good. I'd rather ride Shimano product over SRAM. But I'm over having Shimano treat the mountain bike market and North American shops as an after-thought. Do it right this time.
Also we catered to wide range of cyclists and plenty of them have zero bike knowledge and are happy to pay for your time and help if you give them the right advice.
Get your workshop up to speed, and snag the install labour when they bring their online parts in. With a fast turn around, people get stoked.
(from looking at that photo)
I can't talk about the whole LBS, but from our experience the XTR 12sp is more than welcome. People will have the choice of 10-45 or 10-51T cassette, unlike the stupid 10-50T for all. Pulleys will last way way longer on the XTR 9100, and if you need to replace them it will be cheap.
Oh, and it should be 30% cheaper than XX1 Eagle. And the 12sp XT should finish the job.
The industry trusts Shimano more than Sram. The HG8 freehub have been unchanged for 25 years. Now it's time to move on, and the HG+ was designed with the future in mind. The XD is close to its limit already.
Eagle is stupid and Shimano are jsut following them because for most people 12>11
The new cassette is inspired by the refinement they have made for the latest Dura Ace. And as usual with Shimano, if one -or more- cog is worn out, you will just have to order it without having to throw the whole cassette away. Let's face it, the 10T cog wears out way faster than a 11T or more. I have but a significant amount of XX1 cassette in the bin over the years for that reason -with loads of life on all the other cogs.
Move to CA and spin a small range, also depends on your level. The 10T is used on paved trail transfers for me.
Just because YOU don't need the range does not make it stupid. Its also saving my knees, which are slowly fading with age.
>if it's too hard with 11s get a smaller chainring.
and lose top speed in the proces, what a great idea
why would i get smaller chainring if i can just buy 12s and have it all in one package?
what the f*ck does it even mean "its useless" ??
there is an option on the market and now there is competition, you have to be completely retarded to think this is bad for customers
No More Front Mechs, and the same range. Don't need the bailout then up the Front chainring to 34t.
I don't understand the hate towards something so great.
Climbing with 32-50, you'd better walk. I live in the Alps btw.
Stop hating coz you think its cool.
They’ve both admitted 18 speed is achievable, but the market’s not ready. That’s a good few years of R&D in the bank & millions of smashed up £200 mechs in there too.
I’ve just ordered a cube stereo as it was one of the very few available to me that was all shimano spec
especially that shimano wont stop making 11 speed (or 10) and sram didnt stop either
Coming from a guy that lived in England for 18 years and transplanted to CA. I also use my 10T when i am spinning out on paved sections between trail transfers.
If you think 12 speed is too much range you are not riding real MOUNTAINS.
I’m not interested in telling other people they should want this too. Just wish somebody would make it for those that do.
And if possible they take the lift.
I get Eagly for XC biking or really alpine stuff but most people who got eagle don’t need it- its just hip.
Where SRAM is 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50.
I tried the SRAM Eagle GX a couple times and was quite impressed.
I currently have a 11-40T with 34T and 27.5 wheels which is ok for most situations in my area when my legs are not too tired.
My next setup might be 11-45T 10-speed Garbaruk cassette with XT 11-speed derailleur and XT 10-speed shifter.
I just think you get a very good chain durability versus price with a 10-speed setup (less skew in the chain & wider chain).
SunRace even makes a 10-Spd 11-46t Cassette for this combo.
I run slightly more resistance than a SRAM derailleur has. Really lightens up the shifting.
XT 10-Spd shifter / 11-Spd der + XTR 10-Spd shifter / 11-Spd der both running SRAM chains and SunRace 11-46t cassettes.
@ChristophColombo:
There’s enough people here saying they’re inter-compatible from first hand experience that I think we can agree it’s true?
Therefore:
@IluvRIDING:
There are a couple good options of wide range 10-speed cassettes outhere I believe with different prices and weights.
Sunrace CSMS3 11-46T (486g)
Sunrace CSMX3 11-46T (436g)
Garbaruk 10-speed 11-45T (266g)
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16C3Rz6qmzmurSNd-L3IeMSFukkBFV6D1DRbfS59EDrE/edit#gid=965182040
And imho, 51 stinks about as badly as 28.99.
Shimano is close to releasing XTR 12-speed for their 1x / single chainring drivetrains, known as CS-M9100-12.
Two cassette ratios to start with. 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-45T and 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51T. 51 teeth!
Other details include direct mount chainrings and a new freehub body design – no firm details on these items, but one has to wonder, yet another cassette body standard?
This one may not appeal to the gravel bike crowd, but flat-mount XC disc brakes.
Would it not make more sense having 9t - 36t out back & 22 - 26 up front?
I can see the lever pretty well?
www.gravelcyclist.com/bicycle-tech/exclusive-shimano-xtr-gets-12-speed-for-1x-single-chainring-with-two-cassette-options-and-more-good-for-gravel
AKA Paul Aston, PB staff member??
it wouldn't take a genius to make the connection of the official launch date (as per the insta vids) and the fact that the page disappeared because it went up too early by mistake.
PB will almost certainly have had the full press-release before whatever the embargo date is, and know all the details...
My SLX group still runs good (3 years) and my current XT 1x11 is even better.
Oh and I dont even want to talk about Sram brakes.... I hated bleeding them.
The drivetrain is just a small part of the whole bike margin. From Shimano's point of view - profiting $100 per bike on a million $800 Giants is way better than profiting $160 per bike on 10,000 $4000 Enduros.
Shimano is very happy with the approach they are taking because it's working just fine for them.
The rider is a SHE... There's a half dozen photos of HER on the page...
www.facebook.com/absoluteblack.cc/posts/1284638204972175
If they don’t actually we can basically be sure they’re a bunch of f*cks.
If they’re on board with direct mount rings, which is basically a revolution.
Maybe they’re finally getting cool and deciding to work with the people instead of against them.
New XTR group.
Freewheel body is new.
New discs.
Chainring looks narrow-wide.
Lots of center lock.
I will say if they fixed the large cog shifting/skipping issue I'm hearing about on eagle drivetrains then that's a good thing.
Do you have anything to backup your reliability claims? I've run SRAM for 5+years and have had zero issues. I've recently used XT on a build and have had to fiddle with the cable tension far more than I did with the SRAM setup that was on there before. However after the tension was set, both have been excellent.
On Shimano the cable enters the derailleur at a point behind and above the pivot, it then continues straight downward to the lever arm. So when this cable is pulled, the parallelogram slides down and inward. This means that chain wrap and chain-to-cog clearance is dependent on both the upper pulley offset and the parallelogram range. There are several advantages to this - Shimano derailleurs don't need as much cage offset to clear bigger cogs, therefore maintaining slightly better chain wrap throughout the cassette range, and also the horizontal clearance is much better - a trait Shimano has dubbed "Shadow" - Shimano's derailleurs don't stick out as far on the horizontal plane as do SRAM's. Finally there's the weight advantage - there's no extra pulley and cable guide, and the parallelogram is smaller.
Conversely i've been running and recommending Shimano for about 20 years now and found their products to be high-quality and nearly perfectly reliable. Every mechanic I know personally holds the same opinion. From my experience SRAM's drivetrains have been higher maintenance and easier to break. I say this all the time but it seems like Pinkbike is the only place I find so many SRAM drivetrain fans. In person, at my local riding spots, all the riders I know and meet are riding Shimano by choice or SRAM "because that's what came with the bike".
I use Sram derailleurs. I love X-horizon but it does stick out sooooo far. It's never been a real problem, but it still worries me. Hopefully any new gravity line from Shimano deals with the reliability issues I've experienced with zee and saint derailleurs. Really just using a version of x horizon would do it. When they work they're amazing but they have a tendency to fail catastrophically without even being polite enough to wait until they smash into a rock into do so.
That and a ten tooth cog? Pretty sweet.
I think that Shimano and SRAM both make very high quality products, and that that position is arguably more tenable than a one vs. the other situation. I know a lot of mechanics who hold that position as well. Different strokes....
To me, the largest contributing factor to Shimano's XT M8000 domination trailside is the XD driver. Its costly and time consuming for riders who want to upgrade with SRAM, but don't want to change hubs and pay the premium. Now that Shimano has come out with their own hub standard, I think it will level the playing field... that is unless XT 12speed will use the standard freehub body.
I owned or ridden: XX 2x10, XO 1x10, XO1 1x11, XT M8000 11, XT M8050 Di2, SLX, GX, GX eagle, NX, Red, Force 11, Dura Ace 11, Ultegra, and out of all of that - I prefer the feel of Sram shifting and the price of shimano. All groups have had their issues, some defects, others caused by my hands. I haven't seen anything over time and countless miles with both Shimano or SRAM that would make me say that one is outright more reliable or better.
I'm not sure the new freehub will really matter. The cog pitch is the same between Shimano and SRAM drivetrains so there's no reason you can't just use a SRAM cassette with your Shimano drivetrain, and Sunrace has a very complete line of quality cassettes available...there is no combination that can't be done. XD, Shimano classic, or MicroSpline with 11-speed or 12-speed anywhere from 42t up to 50t.
Good point regarding the cog pitch and sunrace. I think the biggest limiting factor for many riders would be the necessary hub upgrade to get to the 12 speed era. Lots of folks I ride with don't have the coin to go replacing a wheelset or hub. I haven't tested anything from Sunrace yet, but that looks to be a good cost/compatibility option, albeit at a heavier weight.
But you can still use a road cassette and put away some gears.
@lemonaid:
You guys are idiots
If you can’t see the good things sram and shimano have both done for the sport somewhat equally then you are part of the problem not the solution.
I am one the most liberal people you’d ever hope to meet. But can’t I just have this one hate? SRAM smells like poo and you know it. Chill. They’re just a couple of companies making bicycle parts. Well one makes parts, the other makes marketing.
New XTR will be 12speed,
10-51 cassette,
510% ratio
New freehub - obviously we need another one!
Will be out tomorrow!
cdn.brujulabike.com/media/1024/conversions/Shimano%20XTR%20M9100-1000.jpg
New freewheel body looks crazy.
New discs, sick.
Chainring looks narrow-wide.
Lots of center lock.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/15935260
portal.bikeworld.pl/tag/zdjecia/958/shimano_xtr
instagram.com/p/BjJ6vQZjHmh
SRAM GX11 weight
Casette - 342g
Derailleur - 263g
Shifter - 122g
Crank arms - 558g
Total - 1267g
XTR M9000 weight
Casette - 328g
Derailleur - 222g
Shifter - 118g
Crank arms - 470g
Total - 1138g
When you take into account that XTR Is all carbon and metal and GX is largely plastic, the difference is even bigger.
Pinkbike; "WTF, you posted a picture on your homepage we could have leaked it and got all kinds of traffic"
Shimano: "you can leak that one set of pictures to tease things"
In any case, this stuff is a complete joke. For being experts at metal that's a janky casette.
And if XT is another year off, they are done. NX Eagle and XX1 eTap will bury them
Wrong league my friend.
XT has always been the everyman's ultimate groupset. Yeah XTR is the halo groupset but for riders who aren't sponsored and don't work in the industry, XT is the holy grail. Now that it's so cheap...of perhaps I should say - now that SRAM groups are so overpriced - there's absolutely no argument against it.
@guylovesbike gets it.
XT is vastly overrated. Just because it's second to XTR doesn't mean it's second best. The cassette is cheap stamped steel junk. It's GX level at best. Shift feel isn't anything special.
XT is both a higher level groupset than GX and higher quality. It's also significantly cheaper.
Ain't nobody here care about an 800$ Giant with Claris.
To me, XT M8000 feels better than GX. The shifting experience is a little more crisp but the major difference is that the build quality of the derailleur feels superior. Tuning the GX derailleur always felt like a chore and was required more often than with the XT, as It's been pretty much set and forget with the latter. Oh and by the way, I used the XG-1150 cassette with both derailleur.
That said, I can appreciate that other people feel differently and that's fine. It's by no mean outrageous to me that someone else would feel that GX is superior to XT.
"And according to Nicolas Vouilloz's Instagram page, something new is ready to drop from Shimano tomorrow – 25.5.18". Yep a derailleur and hangar from a frame
Gearboxes need a lot of work before they are ready for the general riding populace.