Spotted: New Shimano XTR

May 24, 2018
by Paul Aston  
New XTR
Jolanda Neff was out on course today with what looks to be a new XTR drivetrain on her Kross full suspension race bike.


These images today from Nové Mesto, the Czech round of the XC World Cup taking place this weekend show what looks like a new version of Shimano’s XTR groupset.


New XTR


The crankset looks similar to previous XTR, but more refined and with what looks to be a direct mount single chainring. Maybe Shimano has finally given up on the 2x front chainring idea? There is also a distinct lack of a front chain guide on this particular bike, even though most narrow/wide chainrings do a good job with chain retention, most racers will now use a lightweight guide for belt-and-braces safety, maybe there is a new retention design that gives racers the confidence to drop the guide?

We can see the cassette has a wide range, but I can't count more than 11-sprockets on that cassette, but there could well be another small sprocket tucked behind the dropout of that Kross bike. The smaller chunk of the cassette looks like it could be made from one piece, and the larger three sprockets are pinned together.

Surely 12 speed is the only option if the big blue S wants to challenge the big red S for the huge trail and enduro bike market that SRAM has taken a stranglehold on over the last few years.


New XTR
The rider was caught mid-gear change as she tried to make a getaway from the paparazzi.


The derailleur also appears to have a clutch, but it is hard to tell whether or not there is an on/off lever that we are used to seeing on Shimano mechs.

What else can we deduce from the photo? The rear brake is blurry, but the brake hose is now connected on the inboard side of the caliper, whereas the old XTR was connected on the outside. There are no finned brake pads on these brakes, but I hope they are still an option to match the IceTec rotors.


New XTR
New XTR


And according to Nicolas Vouilloz's Instagram page, something new is ready to drop from Shimano tomorrow – 25.5.18





383 Comments

  • 143 9
 I keep seeing a subliminal message in that second, the one on the right, picture where he is riding over the rocks....
  • 33 1
 Clearly foreshadowing the release of Shimano's new 12-speed Donkey groupset.
  • 15 4
 Oh, you mean the maxxis tire advertisement?
  • 44 1
 That's not a he.
  • 4 1
 @High-Life: sorry, that first photo was not in the article originally. I was just looking at the components.
  • 24 185
flag zer0c00l44 (May 24, 2018 at 6:55) (Below Threshold)
 Theres no need for such big dinner plate rear cassettes, the ratios are too much its like pedalling thin air in the bigger gears. Its a ll]oad of f*cking bollocks. For people with zero power in their legs. Ive got a 42 to 11 10 speed cassette on my bike with a 36 single ring up front and thats loads for 99% of terrain.
  • 90 5
 @zer0c00l44:
>i commute to work office 5km away by bike, why would anyone ever need a car

thats pretty much what you just said
  • 112 2
 @zer0c00l44: You live in Wales. There are serious mountains other places.
  • 6 1
 Centerlock interface on the cassette.
  • 9 5
 @DavidMakalaster: Hey, give him a break, 3 of the 7 summits are in Whales.
  • 23 5
 @zer0c00l44: come visit me in Colorado. Thousand riders who will smoke you will change your mind quickly. Just because you don't want it, doesn't mean other riders won't benefit.
  • 4 4
 She ffs...
  • 15 16
 @DavidMakalaster: I live around real mountains and honestly I agree with him. I run a 1x10 because I like the simplicity and shorter cage. I think it's personal preference though.
  • 6 1
 @Dejw: Exactally! Why are we calling Yolanda a he?!?!
  • 2 1
 @zer0c00l44: clearly, there is a need!
  • 3 10
flag taquitos (May 24, 2018 at 8:04) (Below Threshold)
 @bman33: if you have the let strength to keep proper cadence with a smaller range of gears you will be faster than someone dropping down to their first gear on a 12 speed. I my mind the benefit is being able to hold a more leisurely pace going up so that you can save some energy for dropping back down.
  • 2 9
flag mattsavage (May 24, 2018 at 8:18) (Below Threshold)
 sdfsdfdsdf
  • 27 3
 @taquitos: True and not denying it. However, it's an additional tool in the bike riding tool box. 12 speed allows a bigger front ring for the downs and a bailout gear. All while dropping the front derr. The hatred and trash talking about 12-speed or any other new component on PB is laughable. None of us need any of it. Not even bikes. We are basically big kids playing on expensive toys. According to many whiners on PB, all we need is a 26"-wheeled (all other wheels are evil) single speed bike apparently.
  • 13 3
 @DavidMakalaster: there are decent sized, technical climbs in Wales, there are also apparently decent sized, macho knob jockeys who have to aggressively boast of their prowess. Fortunately the former out numbers the latter.
  • 6 0
 2 cassette ratios to start with. 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-45T and 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51T. 51 teeth.
  • 5 2
 We're all pussies riding dinner plates compared to the old school guys. But today's gearing is proven faster.

Watch Lance talk gearing, and how you couldn't show up to a race with small gears back in the day.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwZtTgt1AbA
  • 13 0
 @High-Life: We're not pussies, we're getting up climbs that the oldsters had to push their bikes up. True story - was there. #oldguy
  • 3 58
flag zer0c00l44 (May 24, 2018 at 9:28) (Below Threshold)
 @Kickmehard: Tut tut tut, such animosity and double hard talk coming from some one with the name Timothy. LOL. Calm down Timothy you may strain your vagina. Looking at your rides you already have.
  • 1 3
 Holy crap that looks familiar,,, oh it's just like the old XTR. Spandexer's get it twisted please.
  • 6 9
 @taquitos: anyone who says 10 or 11 speed is enough might descend fast, but they don't descend REALLY fast. if this doesn't make sense to you, then you'll probably never need 12 speed. its not just about making it to the top. sometimes its about running a 34 or 36 in the front.
  • 2 14
flag taquitos (May 24, 2018 at 9:57) (Below Threshold)
 @dtrotter: you ever heard of a man named Gwin? I don't ride shit you have to pedal down or can pedal down for that matter. You'll never understand the glory of a short cage unless you do...
  • 2 0
 @bman33: I don't get the hate either. A lot of it is preference since both can work. I like shorter cage and less unsprung weight, but I get why a larger gear range would be desirable.
  • 1 5
flag megatryn (May 24, 2018 at 10:10) (Below Threshold)
 @High-Life: Phew! That's a relief! For a moment there, I thought I'd turned gay. Thanks for the clarification!
  • 3 0
 @zer0c00l44: hmmm, just a little creepy...
  • 3 0
 @Wilovanny: heard that from mtbpodcast, seems very likely
10-45 would suit my riding perfectly with 34 on the front, just hope that cassette isn't too heavy
  • 1 3
 @zepper: Nope. Most trail systems and roads predate modern gearing. We just ride differently now.
  • 8 0
 @bman33: Totally agree! I welcome progression... People hate in a lot of ways because it makes them feel their equipment is now dated and inadequate.
  • 3 0
 @dtrotter: Amen...
  • 4 1
 @zepper: yes, with more energy left in the tank to boot and possibly cover more ground or do more laps!
  • 6 8
 @zer0c00l44: to play the devils advocate: I agree.

I live in Northern California. I can ride UP tyrolean downhill with a 28 cog/32 chain ring. On my 38lb dh bike. I'm no olympian either.

It's not the derailleur or cassette. It's getting enough sleep, eating right, dead lifting, yoga, stopping after one beer, always eating your wheaties...

New gear and bigger cogs...I've seen 70 year olds with walking sticks blow past guys on $7k bikes spinning and sweating there way up the hill in their magical 42t+ cog.

Not liking what zero said doesn't make him wrong.
  • 7 13
flag zer0c00l44 (May 24, 2018 at 11:40) (Below Threshold)
 @hostforaxenomorph: what ever dude. Look im not bagging on advancement in the sport i just cant see how any one could want a couple of massive cogs at the back like that. The cassettes weigh a tonne and the first 3 gears are useless unless pedalling up a 90 degree climb. All the rest of the time thy're just dead weight and must be a hindrance. 46 at the back 32 at the front should be ample for 99% of riders IMO. Any thing else is just over kill. Plus they look ridiculous.
  • 4 7
 @bohns1: dude i dont run what i run because i cant afford the latest gear i run it because i dont need any thing else. When I ware out the gearing ill get the same again unless I buy a new bike with the modern stuff on. You dont even know me to be so presumptuous. I buy a new bike every 2-3 years which is ample for me and if I need to upgrade in the meantime I upgrade simple as that. Im not bitter sitting in my home hating on all the new shit coming out because i cant afford anything but my 2005 specialized enduro.
  • 6 2
 @zer0c00l44: 99% of terrain where? Saskatchewan?
  • 7 15
flag zer0c00l44 (May 24, 2018 at 11:50) (Below Threshold)
 @loganm2977: totally agree dude 100% people want it too easy and are negating the fact that mountain biking is exercise as well as an enjoyable pastime. The harder you work the fitter and stronger youll get and are rewarded for all that effort in many ways. The problem with mountain biking these days its more a latest craze sport than a get out on what you got and enjoy your self. Its totally ridiculous.
  • 5 7
 @rcybak: no mate i was referring to Amsterdam and all the gnarly terrain they have over there.
  • 9 3
 @zer0c00l44: My Eagle cassette weighs less than XTR. And again, I live in Colorado. My house sits at a mile high in Denver. Any trail I ride starts at least 6500 feet. Many hear have hour long climbs that peak above 10,0000 feet. We can run larger front rings for the long decents and have a bailout get to get up. Does my DH bike have one? No, it's a road cassette. I welcome you to come out to Colorado and show us how we are all wrong.
  • 2 0
 @dtrotter: accurate. I can’t understand why people don’t get this. This isn’t typically so you can run a 28t front ring.
  • 3 0
 Here’s a pic of the brakes
instagram.com/p/Bi4KzhfHZdK
  • 5 1
 @zer0c00l44: you’re looking at this the wrong way. It’s not about running a 30/46 or a 32/46. It’s about being able to run a 34 or a 36 ring and maintaining a decent climbing ratio. It’s awesome.
  • 5 3
 @bman33: Altitude is sort of irrelevant because there's a thing called acclimatization. People in Nepal would find the elevation in Colorado pretty cute. I too go on rides with climbs in excess of 3,000 ft and the lack of a dinner plate isn't holding me back. I'm not saying you can't enjoy it, but people can also do just fine without it.
  • 4 2
 I here Yanny
  • 4 2
 @bonfire: I did a little math for you 30x11 at a cadence of 80 rpm is about 4 mph slower than 34x10. But neither of those speeds are that high (18 mph vs 22 mph). For me and what I ride that makes no difference because the technical trails are slower than that and the open stuff is much faster. If it suits your trails great, but I benefit more from less unsprung weight and a shorter derailleur cage.
  • 4 4
 @taquitos: you are right....everyone using 12 speeds in Colorado is wrong. Come on out for a visit , stay till you acclimate and show us all how awesome you are on one of the 30 mile rides over a few passes.
  • 4 1
 I am 44 and have been riding MTB since '92. I remember everyone bitching about 8-speed when it came out "nobody needs that many gears", and the same for 9-speed, and the same for 10-speed, etc. etc. Guess we should all be on single speed 26" wheeled clunkers with coaster brakes. To hell with options or progression. I mean, nobody NEEDS any of this
  • 2 2
 @bman33: lol try 2by10 bam i have 20 gears so screw 12
  • 4 1
 @bman33: I'm glad you think you're hot shit being from Colorado and all. Want to drop that a few more times for us all? Apparently you can't fathom the fact that people have different preferences and like to selectively read like every other person in America. I ride 1x10 because I wanted to run an X0 derailleur, which Sram only does in 10 speeds. The cassette I have is 11-36 teeth and my chain ring is 32. This combination saves me 0.4 lbs over XX1 Eagle, which isn't insignificant and all happens to be unsprung as well. I didn't hesitate looking at that gear range because I know I can muscle it up 6k worth of fire road climbs just fine and I ride for the down not the up anyway. I didn't make those choices for a lack of other options or lack of money, but rather because they suited how I like to ride.
  • 5 2
 @taquitos: I am from the southwest natively. Got lucky and could move to Colorado. With that, CO, Idaho, Utah, Etc. Anywhere with altitude and extended climbs is my point. I don't care if you ride single speed and can crush everyone backwards up Mt. Everest. However, the shit talking zer0c00l44 on anyone that has a preference for 12 or the 'Altitude is irrelevant....' comments is what started all this. At not point did I say 12 is the only way or talk shit on anyone's choices.
Nothing wrong with 10, 9 8 or what ever. It just the shit talking and bitching PB'ers love to do on anything that is new or different is getting so old. Hell, live in Florida and ride Eagle or live in Nepal and ride a fixie single fully rigid. Just everyone stop with the shit talking on every component or new bike that comes out that doesn't appeal to them. Pinkbike is a bike blog/website. The are supposed to report on and hype when ever the newest widget is. Ok, rant over.....rubber side down everyone.
Cheers
  • 3 1
 @mhoshal: did for years. XT 2/10 works great. However, awesome to not have a front mech anymore.
  • 4 1
 @bman33: you pretty much told me "come to Colorado and find out you're wrong"... Sounds like shit talking to me. I'm not hating on 12 speed, but it isn't all rainbows either.
  • 7 1
 @taquitos: lol, 4mph isn’t a big difference? But yet you’re able to tell the difference between 100g of unsprung weight.

Ok, got it.

@bman33
I also don’t care about Colorado, lots of people climb lots of hills and think it’s impressive. It isn’t, harden up. Everyone thinks their local trails are hard. No body cares, work harder.

Big range is excellent, stoked on it. No more 2x/3x stuff. Allows you to get gearing that works for you, want an impossibly easy climbing gear? Done. Or you want some top end? Done.

On the sales side, not having to debate the merits of 1x vs the loss of climbing range on an old 2/3x system. So much better.

One day people will learn that climbing a hill never gets easier. You just go faster.
  • 2 2
 @bonfire: it's 183g actually and yes I can. Im not a fan of extra unsprung weight as I've said befor. Myavorite part of 1x12 is everything else is less expensive now haha.
  • 3 0
 @taquitos: I support any ratio people want. Why aren't we all pushing for more variety?
  • 2 0
 @taletotell: I'm with you on that. I have my opinions, but if someone has a reason for running what they run and it works for then hey we're all here to have fun right
  • 1 0
 @dtrotter: climbing with. 34x11/34 is faster on the up but also 1 tooth easier on the downs not a huge deal also spinning a higher rpm can be faster with less work on your legs. For instance I run a slightly lighter gear than most on my dj so I can get a few pedals in between jumps if I’m coming in too slow with a harder gear you can only get half a stroke.
  • 1 0
 @zer0c00l44: Ha! Now that is funny.
  • 1 0
 @bman33: I get what your saying but I think people wanted/needed more range not more gears. I’m years behind you (9Cool but I remember the excitement for 36s and for a while we were all happy. 11-12 speeds have thinner chains and cogs right?
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: do you think there is an opposite effect on people who buy stuff and want to justify it whether it works better or not. Placebo anyone? Do you maybe feel defensive because your new expensive equipment feels inadequate.
I’m kidding just flipping the script. I like progress as well.
  • 2 0
 @zer0c00l44: Reckon you don’t live near any big hills.
  • 4 0
 @taquitos: I went to Colorado once. Got sooooo acclimatised man.
  • 1 2
 @bman33: well bro you should lead by example. Thats the biggest load of f*cking shit ive heard in a while. You sound like the town clown, the type of person whos been every where and done every thing. dude you are amazing. you know nothing of what or how I ride and arent you a bit old to be offering people out. Come to where I live and ill show you what riding is. you sound like a whinny little girl. Grow the f*ck up.
  • 2 2
 @nrpuk: yeah thats what it is i dont know proper hills well done. grow the f*ck up
  • 1 2
 @colethompson: i will BRAH right after you eat shit and die
  • 2 2
 @ThomDawson: cool still came back a f*cking dick though
  • 2 2
 @taquitos: thats what its like on here, as soon as you disagree with some new shit you must be living in the gutter riding a 1980s BMX cause thats all you can afford. YAWN.
  • 2 0
 @zer0c00l44: erm. I was just making jokes about smoking weed but whatever. Think I agreed with you but didn’t really read enough to form an opinion.
  • 2 0
 @zer0c00l44: Never called anyone names, telling people to 'eat shit and die', etc. Who should grow up? I am confident in who I am and where I am in life. I don't have to bash someones component choices because they don't match mine. Rubber side down man. Have a great summer. I have a friend in the UK, let you know if I get over that way and you can show me the ropes.
  • 1 0
 @loganm2977: The guys that the 70,year old is blowing past must be extremely out of shape as well as probably not riding near enough!
  • 3 0
 @zer0c00l44: u should head on up to the Canadian Rockies for some uber steep tech climbing then... I'm busting ass in the gym 4 days week doing Ninos leg workouts 1 to 2 times and still can use a 50 on certain climbs.. Anything that helps keep you fresh is a win in my book dude!
  • 2 0
 @bman33: amen to that! I'm in the cad Rockies of Alberta... Everything involves excessive climbs.
  • 2 0
 @mhoshal: ya but 2x10 is lame!
  • 2 0
 @taquitos: actually, it is all rainbows.. Best upgrade yet for me other than my dropper!
  • 1 0
 @bonfire: actually climbing a hill does get easier once Bulgarian split squats and walking lunges are Implemented..
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: "In an unexpected turn of events, Shimano developed an 11-speed cassette that shares the same gearing as its 10 by 51, but with the 51 removed. The reasoning was that, when asked, Shimano's sponsored racers (both from enduro and cross country), maintained that they didn't need the 51, and were unwilling to carry the burden of the extra cog."

Except they happened to drop this in the other release. I happen to be of the same mindset. Can't really argue with people pushing back on something they would get paid to ride.
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: Ya and that's great... But for the everyday riding where I live in huge climbing days in the Rockies... It just makes sense... I performed on the 1x11 but after a long day it gets tough.. That extra from Eagle keeps you that much fresher over time for my terrain..

I'm sure those sponsored riders will fluctuate between chosen cassette on different courses over time.
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: I like riding fast. I don't care about easier. For everyday riding I don't care about 12 speeds. I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't be riding it, but if you try and tell me I'd be faster with it you're full of it.
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: Who said anything about faster dude! I said fresher... As in fresher legs after huge climbing metres to run more laps.. I've ran both and eagle keeps me with more in the tank... That's a win for me.. All this toughen up crap dudes spit is a bunch of bs! Lol
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: I don't care one bit if you think it's a load of bs. I don't really care if I have anything left in the tank. I do care about having a cog that I just plain won't use. It's plain and simple and apparently a bunch of Shimano pros agree with me. I would never dip to 51 during a race since I hardly ever dip to 36 during one.
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: Hey dude! You do whatever the f*ck u want.. Makes zero difference to me... The extra gearing is a God send for my terrain and many pros agree!
  • 1 0
 Play nice spandex warriors!
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: and some don't. Not sure why you've got to be a prick about it.
  • 2 0
 @taquitos: Haha sounds like ur the one being a douche canoe brah!
  • 2 2
 @bohns1: hey I'm not the one bragging about being in the gym roided up four days a week and dropping where I ride like it'll impress people.
  • 1 1
 @taquitos: Sounds like those are your own insecurities trying to determine your own pre-conceived subjective notions as to how you think I'm interpreting my statements there bud!
  • 2 1
 @bohns1: I just don't need to try and justify my points of view but dropping shit to try and impress people. I'm perfectly happy with my riding regardless of gym or speeds on the bike.
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: But u see u are justifying your points.. You're stating what u need and what u don't and that you like how your ride and like speed. As well as initially why one doesn't need 12 speed.. Just as I'm justifying why it works for me.. Our reasoning for what is preferred is subjective to our own self.. That is why I laugh at these arguments or debates in comments because all they really are is pissing contests..as previously stated... Ride what the f*ck u wanna ride dude and don't get ur tampon all wedged up just because not all are in agreement with your notions.
  • 2 0
 @bohns1: I think the big difference is I'm not saying I want it because I ride hard shit... that's called a pissing contest. I ride it because that's what I like isn't a pissing contest. There's nothing manly about grunting up a hill in a different gear than someone else and I never tried to make it about that. On the other hand as soon as people throw out the notion that they are in some way more hardcore, be it that they are from Colorado or do all this training to ride the Rockies, it just drives me crazy.
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: Ironically I've been mid xx race in my old spandex days and witnessed a pissing contest. It was 2 pro's leaking while riding. That was the easiest pass I ever made in a race.
  • 1 0
 XC race, dam auto correct
  • 1 0
 @fecalmaster: I bet with the right marketing campaign you could sell adult diapers or catheters to extreme cyclists so they wouldn't have to take such breaks and could continue being hard core all day. Something along the lines of nature's call ruining your strava times...
  • 2 0
 @taquitos: Haha then u never got what I was saying from the get go. If I wanted to grunt in a manly different gear that gear would be harder would it not? Been there done that.. I got Eagle to make my long climbs easier to stay fresh longer.. Nothing manly about that either! You interpret me as bragging about riding hard shit when in fact all I stated is that I prefer Eagle because of where I live (in the deep cad Rockies).. That is not bragging.. That is simply stating.. I have no choice but to ride crazy long and steep climbs to get to anything worth riding.. Not bragging there either.. I dont train because I live in the Rockies I train because it makes me stronger all round. That and the side effect of looking good with low bf levels, and easier to obtain more attractive women! Lol.. Nothing to do with being hardcore.. I think your reading comprehension got the best of you on this subject... That, or you simply twisted it into what you want to believe.. Lots of people train to be better at their craft! If that bothers you then, you're going to be bothered for a very long time.
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: I think what got the best of me is being bored at work and how easy it is to draw you into stuff...
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: Ahh the classic back pedal maneuver... Must be pretty damn boring job hanging out on pb comments all day! Lol
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: Oh I still 100% stick by my point of 12 speeds not necessarily being ideal for everyone and that there are negative aspects of it to go along with the positive. Just like I said before, it isn't all rainbows. And yes it is a pretty damn boring job. Not arguing about that haha
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: Guess I'm still trying to figure out what the negatives are on my set up since I've gone from 11 to 12..i guess a longer cage and a bit of weight but I don't notice it.. All negligible to me.
  • 1 0
 @bohns1: For people that feel like they would never use a cog as large as 51 yeah the extra weight and longer cage is added complexity that could be avoided. The weight isn't entirely negligible either. the 1x10 I have setup is 0.4 pounds lighter than Eagle. That's on a 150/140 mm trail bike so it's fairly efficient climbing though. For people that like 12 speeds there are the obvious downsides to 11 or 10 of course. Right now I'm building a slightly more burly bike and putting 11 speeds on it... saves about 0.25 lbs which isn't crazy, but I'm enough of a weight weenie to be willing to hike-a-bike every now and then if I do find myself running out of gears. I feel like at gears that low walking isn't that much slower though.
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: yep, comes back to using what u like.. I just don't notice a diff between 11 and 12 in terms of weight.. That's xx1 12 tho... Not the gx... And my 11 was xo1..
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: if you ran a different (harder) gear this year you would be faster next year it pushes you a little harder on the same climb which works your muscles builds them and then they are stronger then you would no longer need the diner plate next year you could go for the 36 instead of the 42 if you were running an 11 speed.
  • 1 0
 @taquitos: if you ran a different (harder) gear this year you would be faster next year it pushes you a little harder on the same climb which works your muscles builds them and then they are stronger then you would no longer need the diner plate next year you could go for the 36 instead of the 42 if you were running an 11 speed.
  • 133 4
 SpinalTap moment......

Shimano: The numbers all go to 51. Look, right across the board, 51, 51, 51 and...

Journo: Oh, I see. And most 12spd go up to 50?

Shimano: Exactly.

Journo: Does that mean it's better? Is it any better?

Shimano: Well, it's one better, isn't it? It's not 50. You see, most blokes, you know, will be spinning at 50. You're on 50 here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on 50 on your cassette. Where can you go from there? Where?

Journo: I don't know.

Shimano: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Journo: Put it up to 51.

Shimano: 51. Exactly. One better.

Journo: Why don't you just make 50 better and make the chain ring different and make that a little better?

Shimano: [pause] These go to 51.
  • 14 1
 Can see this!!!!, Except for a Japanese accent!
  • 8 0
 51 is a lucky number, especially for beverages.
  • 3 17
flag Whipperman (May 24, 2018 at 7:59) (Below Threshold)
 Sram started this pissing constest with the Eagle, 511% range is BS; thoughen the f*ck up
  • 18 0
 I could see oneup making a 52 ring
  • 3 0
 Well if you look at the gaps between the gears, they didn‘t just want to go „one more“, they just wanted it to be better for your cadence.

The Eagle has a big 8 tooth gap to get in the easiest gear, if you look at those screenshots of the shimano casette, the jumps between the easiest three gears is 6 teeth each.

Love that Stuff.
  • 2 0
 @polarproton: ...and I thought that the number that explains all is 42... Big Grin
  • 30 1
 I’m sure Pinkbike is playing dumb on purpose, but there’s already been teasers in the wild for days (like on Nico’s Insta) and even leaked spec sheets sayings there’ll be a 51-tooth and a 45-tooth cassette. Release date is tomorrow.
  • 3 0
 yes, 51
  • 15 14
 if they release 11sp 45t XTR I'll buy it. And then 36t chainring
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: it’s 12-speed.
  • 18 0
 @WAKIdesigns: 11spd xtr cassettes about to get cheaper Smile
  • 4 1
 @OrangeGoblin: don’t be so sure 11 speed won’t be available
  • 10 9
 @OrangeGoblin: Schaisse! No thanks then... 11sp irritates me already when it comes to how many gears I go through the cassette. I'll buy another 11sp XTR and go One Up to stay one down
  • 19 8
 Agreed! this post is nothing but a sponsored post by Shimano trying to bring some "hype".

Pinkbike is playing dumb like they have no idea of the 12speed coming out or have had pictures ready to go for tomorrow. These posts are the worst kind of marketing to me.

How much do you want to bet they will have first ride impressions tomorrow?
  • 22 7
 @Ibisguy: can you also tell us about Area 51t?
  • 3 1
 @Ibisguy: nsmb.com published an article today about a recent factory tour in Japan, and is even honest about not being allowed to give any details on the real reason for the trip, an upcoming launch. In the photos you can see a handful of recognizable mtb journalists, including RC.
  • 1 0
 51. Yea. Yea! 51 tooth rules! Heh heh.
  • 17 2
 @arden0 @Ibisguy no, this is not a sponsored post. When we attend a major launch I silo that tech editor off of that topic. That way we can respect a brand's embargo, but also chase down these stories when they're fair game in public.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns:
I read about 10-45t 11-Speed XTR.
  • 3 0
 The rider's bike has a giant XTR sticker on it. XTR course tape everywhere. As if they don't want photos taken haha'!
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Seems like a sensible way to do things, thanks for the info. Hope I didn't get Cam in trouble lol.
  • 1 1
 @arden0: hah, no no. I enjoyed Cam's piece!
  • 27 0
 Everyone seems focused on the size of the biggest gear, but the interesting part to me is the smallest (highest) gear. It looks like 10 tooth to me (if I counted correctly). You cannot fit 10 teeth on a traditional Shimano/Sram freehub, which means shimano is leaving the old freehub design behind. It was really incredible that for so many years (prior to xD), both shimano and sram used the same freehub spline design (back in the olden days of 9 and 10 speed). Assuming shimano doesn't adopt the xD driver platform, we are looking at a future of greater incompatibility (or greater specialization, if you will) on our bikes. Yeah!???
  • 6 12
flag Lookinforit (May 24, 2018 at 7:17) (Below Threshold)
 Wait don't TRS have a 9-46 tooth cassette? And doesn't it fit on Shimano drivers? Also that's more than 500% gear range so I would love to see more companies go on the smaller side instead of the bigger side of the cassette
  • 7 1
 This is the real news. If you haven't already got XD drivers on your wheels, you're about to get screwed.
  • 9 0
 @Lookinforit: the TRS cassette only fits on an xd driver.
  • 4 0
 @Lookinforit: The E13 TRS cassettes use the XD interface.
  • 9 0
 Campagnolo has had their own freehub body for years. I think we were lucky that Sram and Shimano both got along with one freehub body, but now comes the days of each brand having their own. Probably means it's a good time to invest in some quality hubs like DT with an easily changed freehub body
  • 2 0
 @Lookinforit: the trs fits the XD driver
  • 3 0
 @BigLips93: get the DT hubs for their easily changed freehub. You'll thank me tomorrow.
  • 11 18
flag iqbal-achieve (May 24, 2018 at 9:14) (Below Threshold)
 Every time I see XD driver I see lol driver.
And that pretty much sums up how big a joke SRAM is to me.
  • 1 0
 Precisely! I can count 9. How many more are hidden? I would say 1 more.
  • 1 0
 This is exactly the reason im not buying a new wheelset. first this XTR groupset must hit the stores. Then ill know its safe to move on. I was planning to but if you just bought a wheelset with the current interface your screwed if they release a new one.
  • 1 0
 @RecklessJack: No you just change your driver. Your wheeler is still fine.
  • 2 0
 @ThomDawson: Spot on Thom. Spot on.
  • 2 0
 https://cdn.brujulabike.com/media/1024/conversions/Shimano%20XTR%20M9100-1000.jpg

All over new XTR group.

Freewheel body is new.
New discs.
Chainring looks narrow-wide.
Lots of center lock.
  • 2 0
 @Stizzl:
Is that another new i-spec mount as well!!
  • 1 0
 @ThomDawson: ermm, you can't f*ck wit Dat gold xx1 eagle bling yo! It just makes faster!
  • 29 2
 I like current (mechanical) XTR, but 12... whatever, I get it, there are more dummies who think they think than people who shut up and pedal, you have to cater to where the money comes from...

Shimano, since for whatever reason you still make those non-silver face of the crank arm (like 970 980) I hope you guys sell XTR cranks with thick plastic tape like Sram does with their carbon cranks. Because it sucks to see a top tier product, look like old worn out 960 series, just 2 months after installing it to the bicycle. I just see your top cranks around, including stuff like ultegra, looking scraped, come on... you make possibly best cranksets out there, I personally believe they are THE best, but this finish wearing out is just a genuine shame. It hurts my eyes. Also the plastic clutch lever. On SLX, XT, fine - but XTR? Come on, show me you care.

Direct mount chainring - yes! Narrow Wide - yes! Chain lock - yes!

All the best, great stuff!
  • 3 1
 I kinda like the wear, I get that old favourite pair of jeans feel about it but I totally know what you mean. They can and should do better.
  • 2 0
 You‘ll be a happy man by tomorrow!
  • 1 0
 I think like you Waki...what 12gears suppose to befor ??.. I dont know ,but XTR looks classy and is certainly top notch when it comes to operation and service.
  • 18 0
 Get ready for some sweet deals on current-gen XTR stuff on Jenson...
  • 8 0
 Of course Shimano will announce this tomorrow but it won't be available until 2019 if past releases are any indication!
  • 2 1
 I wish but it’ll probably still be expensive as hell. The old SRAM XX1 is still 500+ for a groupset. You can’t win
  • 1 0
 Merlin (UK) sent out a email blast early this morning announcing XTR 9000 on sale.

New XTR is still going to be several months away. The manufacturers will get top priority for next year model bikes. Let's hope that doesn't mean there could be shortage of individual items early on (like we saw with new Dura-Ace last year).
  • 17 2
 "We can also see the chain has some kind of sliding quick link to break and connect it, which is clearly a much better solution than using Shimano's previous one-use pins." - Brought these out a while ago...
  • 7 30
flag TheRaven Plus (May 24, 2018 at 6:41) (Below Threshold)
 Yeah but not Shimano. You can use SRAM or KMC quick links on Shimano chains but Shimano does not produce nor support quick link setups. Well at least until now.
  • 16 0
 @TheRaven: They've had quick links for their 11-speed chains for a while now. si.shimano.com/pdfs/si/SI-0159A-003-00-ENG.pdf
  • 1 5
flag raditude (May 24, 2018 at 6:47) (Below Threshold)
 @TheRaven: Unless Shimano produces KMC chains.
  • 4 0
 @TheRaven: Yeah, Shimano. Shimano have been doing so for a short period now.
  • 3 0
 @TheRaven: Shimano have been producing and supplying Quicklinks for months now. Any of their chains that have a Q in the model number come with one, ie; HG601Q

www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-105-5800slx-m7000-hg601q-11sp-chain
  • 5 0
 i am a almost exclusively a shimano user. when i bought a chain recently and saw a master link included instead of the pin, i might have orgasmed a little...
  • 14 4
 Publishing these spy photos and making a hype-up story of them is so disingenuous it's funny, as if Pinkbike and the rest of the industry wasn't fully aware of all the details of the new XTR line. RC was in Japan recently checking out the Shimano factory with a handful of other MTB journalists, I wonder what Shimano wanted to show them? Oh well, you have to honour the embargo if you want to be invited to these press events. Looking forward to reading the full details tomorrow.
  • 8 0
 Yes, these are actual spy photos. RC was in Japan for a new Shimano launch, but he had nothing to do with our reporting on this today.
  • 1 0
 Hmm, I was thinking it was rather ingenious that it was Neff in these photos!
  • 10 0
 Direct mount ring with the ring mounted on splines on the bb spindle, which allows 7mm of left to right movement to allow better gear alignment. They patented it last year!
  • 1 0
 I wonder how that would work in muddy conditions.
  • 1 0
 @IluvRIDING: it's got a boot on either side
  • 9 2
 I count 11 in the top pic and 12 in the bottom right. I think it's because he's shifting in both pics. The top one certainly makes it look like there's no possible way that could be a 12-speed cassette. Also that's a 52t big cog.
  • 3 0
 The newer pic added shows it is definitely a 12sp and a massive cog. I really hoped they kept the 11 speed w/46 or 48T max.
  • 5 0
 its a 51t cog
  • 6 1
 I love Shimano products but Shimano trying to kill the local bike shop.

it will be on chain reaction for 50% off next week, cheaper than any small bike shop can bring in.
Or they'll have a 6% mark up on it so small bike shops can't compete!
  • 4 0
 This. This is the most important comment of this entire thread. There's a lot more riding on the intro of XTR M9100 than most riders realize, I think. Product managers may like Shimano more than they like SRAM, they may trust them more, but this release needs to go well for shops if Shimano wants to take back some market share on the mountain bike side of things.

We want XTR M9100 to be rad. We want to ride it. But if this is going to be the usual Shimano BS release of vapourware that ends up on Chain Reaction at 45% off before it's even available from a North American distributor (including Shimano Canada/USA) Shimano should just give up on pretending mountain biking is a product category they care about and/or are interested in and focus on road product.

I want this stuff to be good. I'd rather ride Shimano product over SRAM. But I'm over having Shimano treat the mountain bike market and North American shops as an after-thought. Do it right this time.
  • 2 0
 @somebikeguy: That isn't going to happen. Flat out. Keep buying SRAM and product managers, keep equipping bikes with SRAM.
  • 5 1
 @somebikeguy: what are you even talking about. The internet isn’t going anywhere. Adapt your shop or die. I’ve worked in shops for years and I’m so tired of this debate. Offer better service, offer better pricing, offer price matching, be accurate on your advice and help, don’t be a bike snob. We lost out on some customers for a few years with online back when I was in Canada, but plenty came back because they were tired of buying the wrong thing. We hired staff that were keen and avid cyclists to give them help.

Also we catered to wide range of cyclists and plenty of them have zero bike knowledge and are happy to pay for your time and help if you give them the right advice.

Get your workshop up to speed, and snag the install labour when they bring their online parts in. With a fast turn around, people get stoked.
  • 1 0
 People dont buy parts from bike shops anymore, LBS has become about servicing, complete bikes and consumables. I cant remember the last time I saw a set of forks or any other high dollar component for sale in a shop. Online is just so much better, this debate happened years ago when online became a thing and shops managed to adapt. People still need servicing so bike shops arent going anywhere and if I can get components without being gouged by LBS prices then all the better.
  • 12 4
 9 Speed?
(from looking at that photo)
  • 24 3
 did you pass grade 9?
  • 4 2
 I clearly count 12 mate, not sure where you're getting 9 from... look at the last photo and you can see them all lined up.
  • 11 0
 @landscapeben: I clearly counted eleventy four.
  • 7 0
 That cassette looks a lot lighter than the current one. Lot more space drilled out in the upper cogs.
  • 5 1
 i remember hearing something about SRAM's 11 speed RD and the NW pulleys being an issue. looks like shimano is using NW pulleys now as well. wonder if they got the issue worked out? i THINK the issue had to do with the chain getting jammed up after skipping a tooth or something.
  • 3 0
 When the chain misses a tooth on a nw pull, it can't sit on the pull (bigger teeth on a smaller space)
  • 5 0
 The Sunrace groupset will be in the shops before you can actually by the 12 speed XTR I'm sure. singletrackworld.com/2018/04/exclusive-new-1x12-drivetrain-from-sunrace
  • 9 2
 Another freehub body standard? F-off.
  • 13 2
 Yes another one, called the HyperGlide+. Unlike the XD that one was designed in partnership with other actors of the industry. Unlike the XD the HG+ doesn't require an expensive to built cassette. HG+ will use a lockring because it is by far a better solution. If Shimano and Campy are using a lockring it is for a reason. And don't forget about the outer bearing issue many XD freehub bodies have. It is a lot!

I can't talk about the whole LBS, but from our experience the XTR 12sp is more than welcome. People will have the choice of 10-45 or 10-51T cassette, unlike the stupid 10-50T for all. Pulleys will last way way longer on the XTR 9100, and if you need to replace them it will be cheap.

Oh, and it should be 30% cheaper than XX1 Eagle. And the 12sp XT should finish the job.

The industry trusts Shimano more than Sram. The HG8 freehub have been unchanged for 25 years. Now it's time to move on, and the HG+ was designed with the future in mind. The XD is close to its limit already.
  • 6 0
 @Euskafreez: If Shimano can keep cassette pricing similar to existing cassettes in their range, they will likely have a winner. SRAM cassettes are waaaaay too expensive.
  • 3 12
flag Whipperman (May 24, 2018 at 8:04) (Below Threshold)
 @FLATLlNE: The only problem is that 12speed is useless and no one need that range. We're not pro EWS racer that pedal downhill, if it's too hard with 11s get a smaller chainring.
Eagle is stupid and Shimano are jsut following them because for most people 12>11
  • 3 2
 @FLATLlNE: Shimano is now going after Sram. And it starts with a no non-sense high end cassette. The new XTR 12sp cassette is expected around 230€ VAT inc at your LBS. I suppose it will be cheaper online after some time, like it always is. The weight of the 10-45T 12sp should be around 330 grams. No idea about the 10-51T one.

The new cassette is inspired by the refinement they have made for the latest Dura Ace. And as usual with Shimano, if one -or more- cog is worn out, you will just have to order it without having to throw the whole cassette away. Let's face it, the 10T cog wears out way faster than a 11T or more. I have but a significant amount of XX1 cassette in the bin over the years for that reason -with loads of life on all the other cogs.
  • 5 3
 @Whipperman: Funny because I use my full Eagle Range Daily and I am no EWS pro. I guess when you have to ride up real MOUNTAINS its not so silly is it. The guys that say its useless just don't ride terrain that needs it.

Move to CA and spin a small range, also depends on your level. The 10T is used on paved trail transfers for me.

Just because YOU don't need the range does not make it stupid. Its also saving my knees, which are slowly fading with age.
  • 3 2
 @Whipperman:
>if it's too hard with 11s get a smaller chainring.

and lose top speed in the proces, what a great idea

why would i get smaller chainring if i can just buy 12s and have it all in one package?
what the f*ck does it even mean "its useless" ??
there is an option on the market and now there is competition, you have to be completely retarded to think this is bad for customers
  • 3 2
 @Asmodai: People think its cool to hate, when realistically this is the best thing that's happened to MTB in years.

No More Front Mechs, and the same range. Don't need the bailout then up the Front chainring to 34t.

I don't understand the hate towards something so great.
  • 2 0
 @FLATLlNE: When the ENTIRE XT groupset (no rotors or BB) was for sale on ChainReaction it was within $40 of SRAM's most expensive cassette lol.
  • 1 0
 @cole-bikeva: I bought an XT shifter, derailleur, cassette 11-42, and chain, for something like $175 Canadian on Black Friday. Perfect.
  • 2 1
 @Snowsed341: People just bought it because they believe in "bigger is better" sold by ads. YT bikes went back to 11s this year. With Eagle the derailleur is so long it scrape to ground. Chain is weaker, chainline sucks, yield is shit, cassette costs an arm.
Climbing with 32-50, you'd better walk. I live in the Alps btw.
  • 1 0
 @Snowsed341: discussion aside, its kinda funny you call em mountains in Cali (pretty small mountains) when hes got the Alps in his backyard. Haha.
  • 2 1
 @Whipperman: YT went with Shimano and E13 for cost reasons, nothing to do with range and I ride super Rocky conditions as I live near Laguna. I have never had a Mech scrape anything. Everything you just stated is crap. I run GX eagle and the cost is fine.

Stop hating coz you think its cool.
  • 1 0
 @atrokz: Small agreed, but our climbing is tough, its not just fire roads.
  • 3 0
 Don’t worry, Sram will announce 14 speed next month!
They’ve both admitted 18 speed is achievable, but the market’s not ready. That’s a good few years of R&D in the bank & millions of smashed up £200 mechs in there too.
  • 4 0
 Plus wheels have to get bigger to support the 18-speed 2-124t rear cassette.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: What if the rim were the cassette. BOOSH.
  • 3 0
 I was going to buy a new bike this year until i realized everything new that I'm interested in has SRAM drivetrains that I would have to replace. This gives me some hope of being able to buy a new bike with a Shimano drivetrain in the next couple of years.
  • 1 0
 I concur..
I’ve just ordered a cube stereo as it was one of the very few available to me that was all shimano spec
  • 13 10
 I don't see why you need 12 speed anyway. I run eleven speed 11-40 and I almost always double shift. Bigger steps would be fine by me. Also I heard there is a new driver for a 10t sprocket, and it is definitely 12 speed.
  • 6 2
 its nice to have options, maybe you dont need it but someone else does
especially that shimano wont stop making 11 speed (or 10) and sram didnt stop either
  • 3 2
 It's so you have range in places with 18% climbs and then steep descents. On my 11-40 with a 32, there are some climbs where I live that I struggle up, and then I spin out on the way down. Next drive train will be 11-46 with a 34. But I suspect even more range on a 12-spd helps to further alleviate this issue.
  • 4 2
 @Jvhowube: yeah but you can also have 10-50 eleven speed, just with bigger jumps, but you also have a thicker chain. Let's face it, even yen speed chains are pretty weedy.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: You're probably right - you can achieve that range on 11 with a thicker chain. The most likely reason is so the bike companies can sell us new parts.
  • 6 2
 I have an 11-speed 10-50t cassette and i'm mostly ok with it. But on some killer climbs i've really wished for a tighter spread...big jumps are evil death when you are on the last big climb of a 20+ mile ride.
  • 1 0
 I am in the same boat. i rarely just do one shift. luckily shimano shifters make it easy to double shift
  • 10 5
 @jaame: Because in Britain you have Hills, and in CA we ride up MOUNTAINS. 12 Speeds has been a godsend for me and many others that ride up 25-30% grades daily.

Coming from a guy that lived in England for 18 years and transplanted to CA. I also use my 10T when i am spinning out on paved sections between trail transfers.

If you think 12 speed is too much range you are not riding real MOUNTAINS.
  • 2 0
 Absolutely agree - have the same setup. Double and triple shifts all the time. I would love to take a 11-40 and just take out 3 or 4 gears, spread em back out. Done.
I’m not interested in telling other people they should want this too. Just wish somebody would make it for those that do.
  • 4 2
 Lol here in Vienna you see a lot of Enduro- dudes with their eagle for 200m ascends.
And if possible they take the lift.

I get Eagly for XC biking or really alpine stuff but most people who got eagle don’t need it- its just hip.
  • 7 1
 I use my 30-50 all the time. I was very happy to get a real granny gear when I switched from 28-42 1x11. I live in Colorado and I’m “old.” Sore knees and hips. Lots of miles weekly and I just can’t stop cuz I’m a MTB junkie for life. Air above 9k feet gets scarce and we ride to 12k often here. I like dinner plates with my 1x setup.
  • 1 0
 @Speeder01: no com not saying the range is not needed, I know some people would use 10-60 if they could get it. I just mean 12 speed is not necessary. There is already 11-46 on m8000. Would it really make so much difference to gear spacing to simply change the 46 to a 50, and the 38 or whatever it is to a 39 or 40.
  • 7 1
 "some kind of sliding quick" Where have you been?
  • 5 3
 hoping its 11 speed. As long as the #1 is a pie plate. Actually I wish we could go back to 10 speed. That was plenty of choice and not as much bother with as multiple shift changes when you actually have a change of terrain.
  • 2 0
 It seems like the cogs are 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51 (not a 100% sure though).
Where SRAM is 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-50.
I tried the SRAM Eagle GX a couple times and was quite impressed.
I currently have a 11-40T with 34T and 27.5 wheels which is ok for most situations in my area when my legs are not too tired.
My next setup might be 11-45T 10-speed Garbaruk cassette with XT 11-speed derailleur and XT 10-speed shifter.
I just think you get a very good chain durability versus price with a 10-speed setup (less skew in the chain & wider chain).
  • 1 3
 Beware. You can't combine 10 speed shifters with 11 speed derailleurs . They have different cable pull.
  • 4 1
 That’s incorrect. Many riders combining Shimano 10-Spd shifters with Shimano 11-Spd derailleurs. It works perfectly.

SunRace even makes a 10-Spd 11-46t Cassette for this combo.
  • 2 0
 @IluvRIDING: I've seen enough people running that setup in the wild to say that either it's the same or it's close enough that it still works. Probably not as good as a 10-speed derailleur would be, but the 10-speed stuff shifts like garbage anyway when you use it with a wide-range cassette since the b-screw is maxed.
  • 3 0
 @ChristophColombo: m8000 mech, 10 speed shifter and cassette works superbly, especially on >40t cogs.
  • 1 1
 @drewm: Well they don't have the same ratio Shimano 10 MTB ratio: 1.2 ...Shimano 11 MTB ratio: 1.1
  • 1 1
 In my experience, dialing back the clutch tension makes all the difference.

I run slightly more resistance than a SRAM derailleur has. Really lightens up the shifting.

XT 10-Spd shifter / 11-Spd der + XTR 10-Spd shifter / 11-Spd der both running SRAM chains and SunRace 11-46t cassettes.

@ChristophColombo:
  • 1 0
 The shifters (10-Spd / 11-Spd) need to pull exactly the same amount of cable per index point or they would not be inter-compatible.

There’s enough people here saying they’re inter-compatible from first hand experience that I think we can agree it’s true?

Therefore:


@IluvRIDING:
  • 3 0
 I bought a Sunrace cassette first (11-40T) keeping my XT 10-speed derailleur and shifter, but shifting was not so good with the small cogs. Then, I only changed the derailleur to an XT 11-speed derailleur and shifting became great all across the board.

There are a couple good options of wide range 10-speed cassettes outhere I believe with different prices and weights.
Sunrace CSMS3 11-46T (486g)
Sunrace CSMX3 11-46T (436g)
Garbaruk 10-speed 11-45T (266g)
  • 2 0
 @IluvRIDING: been using xtr 11spd shifter and cassette with 10spd Saint mechs ever since 11spd became a thing.
  • 4 2
 Two new standards in one bang. Is this really Shimano? I thought only SRAM would dump evil standards on us like this. Now I have to put up with another freehub driver body standard and another direct mount chainring standard. Let's hope they're *noticeably* better.

And imho, 51 stinks about as badly as 28.99.
  • 2 0
 Hot off the press from a reliable source (as in a good mate of JOM’s), we’ve learned the following:

Shimano is close to releasing XTR 12-speed for their 1x / single chainring drivetrains, known as CS-M9100-12.
Two cassette ratios to start with. 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-40-45T and 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51T. 51 teeth!
Other details include direct mount chainrings and a new freehub body design – no firm details on these items, but one has to wonder, yet another cassette body standard?
This one may not appeal to the gravel bike crowd, but flat-mount XC disc brakes.
  • 2 0
 HEY yes If you need a lower gear just use a smaller chainring up front, how often do you really need a bigger gear going downhill, thats time to enjoy freewheel, but there are some times when a few crank strokes can get going faster to get over a rise, but how often does that really happen?
Would it not make more sense having 9t - 36t out back & 22 - 26 up front?
  • 5 0
 I'm curious to see what they came up with for a free hub body.
  • 1 0
 Me too. This is my big question with it all.
  • 2 0
 Probably something like their Capreo freehub body.it allows the use of a 10t cog.
  • 1 1
 Same thing, just longer and will allow the cassette to clear the spokes. No step down like the capreo comment mentions.
  • 4 0
 If history has tought us anything, its that full XTR 12 speed with X01 Eagle cassette and XX1 Eagle chain will be tits.
  • 3 0
 "The derailleur also appears to have a clutch, but it is hard to tell whether or not there is an on/off lever"
I can see the lever pretty well?
  • 1 0
 Bigger pulleys,and maybe a little stiffer but smother cluntch,and yes perhaps a 12 speed range ,but the 11 speed xtr is still very good and tough,just the B screw that with the vibration loosens a little need to check it from time to time and the down shift padle just needs a little more shape and grip.
  • 1 0
 My word some people talk some absolute sh1te, more gears and bigger cassettes allow bigger front chainrings which means a wider spread of gears for peddling uphill and going faster downhill. Yes legs, weight and other factors come in , but we are all different and ride different terrain in different ways.. Hence different gearing works for different people
  • 1 0
 I also think maybe half DI with use of cable too? almost like fail safe - ie what happened to Nino when some one Blue tooth was on Smile rear mech is very DI looking on the lower cage.
  • 6 2
 Long live 9-speed. Reminisce of simpler times and Simpler Times.
  • 5 1
 "An eagle-eyed Pinkbike fan"

AKA Paul Aston, PB staff member??
  • 2 1
 "Continuing our detective work, we managed to grab this screenshot from the Shimano US website, the page has now mysteriously disappeared?"

it wouldn't take a genius to make the connection of the official launch date (as per the insta vids) and the fact that the page disappeared because it went up too early by mistake.

PB will almost certainly have had the full press-release before whatever the embargo date is, and know all the details...
  • 5 0
 eagle-eyed. kinda punny.
  • 1 0
 @hungrymonkey: actually PB normally stays silent for new releases if they have the full scoop. If they don't, then they do spy shots. I'm guessing Shimano will send them everything tomorrow, but they don't know now. Shimano knows this game, not sure why they didn't let the media in sooner. Maybe PB is on their bad list.
  • 3 0
 @ShredlyMcShredface: RC was in Japan recently, I'm sure Pinkbike has all the details. These spy-shot articles are a way to sort of get around the embargo and generate hype for the real release tomorrow.
  • 1 0
 @arden0: "approved" spy shots thenSmile
  • 1 0
 @ShredlyMcShredface nope, definitely not "approved". Just fair game.
  • 1 0
 I'm perfectly fine with it being a wider range 11-speed. ESPECIALLY if it is compatible with existing XT/XTR derailleurs, where you simply have to swap out for a longer cage or something.
  • 4 0
 wake me up when the XT/SLX model is out
  • 6 6
 At best this is 2 years too late - SRAM already has 12spd GX - wake up Shimano. There better be 12 spd all the way down to SLX before the end of the year or you're dead in the water... Too bad because I'm actually a Shimano fan boy. but If they're not already secretly close to releasing a wireless gearbox transmission that is better than pinion, they will be gone within 5 years.
  • 14 2
 Shimano dominates the drivetrain market by a significant margin. They really don't care...they just take their time and release stuff that works.
  • 2 0
 I was only buying Shimano drivetrain+ brakes for the last years.
My SLX group still runs good (3 years) and my current XT 1x11 is even better.

Oh and I dont even want to talk about Sram brakes.... I hated bleeding them.
  • 1 0
 @NotNamed: Oh no not brakes. That's not even a fair fight. SRAM has been so beat up over their brakes that I actually feel bad for them.
  • 1 1
 @TheRaven: Shimano dominates the entry level drivetrain market. you know the crap no one talks about, Alivio, Tourney, Altus, Sora, Claris, and acera.
  • 1 0
 @y9pema: True, but if you look close you'll see Microshift and Sunrace taking small bites out of complete spec. That matters more than losing XTR spec.
  • 2 0
 You actually think Shimano is going to shutter its doors in 5 years because they are doing a 12 speed? Im beginning to remember why this sites comments are the laughing stock of the industry.
  • 2 0
 @atrokz: People here tend to forget...all the time...that we are the extreme minority. I lol at the "nobody cares about an $800 Giant with Claris"...actually MOST people care...because to them that's an insanely expensive bike. More importantly - SRAM cares alot about that $800 Giant...because there's MILLIONS of them.

The drivetrain is just a small part of the whole bike margin. From Shimano's point of view - profiting $100 per bike on a million $800 Giants is way better than profiting $160 per bike on 10,000 $4000 Enduros.

Shimano is very happy with the approach they are taking because it's working just fine for them.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: that and they make some great stuff. Some misses over the years but in every segment they have winners. Their saint stuff is great. Great if not the best cranksets. Etc.
  • 2 0
 I'm just stoked for the trickle down on this... My SLX stuff today is really, really good (and cheap) even compared to my XT stuff from only a short time ago.
  • 4 2
 " The rider was caught mid-gear change as he tried to make a getaway from the paparazzi."

The rider is a SHE... There's a half dozen photos of HER on the page...
  • 2 0
 Absolute Black leaking the beans.. They sure know how to piss off the drivetrain companies!

www.facebook.com/absoluteblack.cc/posts/1284638204972175
  • 2 2
 Imagine if Shimano just admitted the xd driver was the way to go?
If they don’t actually we can basically be sure they’re a bunch of f*cks.
If they’re on board with direct mount rings, which is basically a revolution.
Maybe they’re finally getting cool and deciding to work with the people instead of against them.
  • 1 0
 You know XD drivers are garbage right.just talk to any mechanic that has had to explain to a customer that they can't remove their cassette because it is seized on.
  • 1 1
 https://cdn.brujulabike.com/media/1024/conversions/Shimano%20XTR%20M9100-1000.jpg

New XTR group.

Freewheel body is new.
New discs.
Chainring looks narrow-wide.
Lots of center lock.
  • 4 5
 Looks like they've gone similar to SRAM x-horizon, with the mechanism moving horizontally (or close to it). Should minimize the impact of the clutch on finger effort at the shifter. Also a big offset of the top pulley from the cage pivot, probably 1x specific for this derailleur.
  • 8 3
 It's different though. SRAM's pull geometry is horizontal rearward, whereas Shimano is vertical upward. This new m9100 derailleur appears to be the same. This difference is a major factor in SRAM's comparatively heavy derailleurs and also why they tend to be less reliable than Shimano's. Another example of the Keep It Simple concept.
  • 4 4
 I'm going to hold off until I see and hear more, but...it does look a lot like they reverse engineered x horizon, eagle, and xd driver features and made it all different enough to avoid and legal trouble. I'm glad they did though, the parallelogram movement of x horizon is vastly superior on any mountain bike.

I will say if they fixed the large cog shifting/skipping issue I'm hearing about on eagle drivetrains then that's a good thing.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: could you elaborate on the pull difference?
  • 4 1
 @TheRaven: @TheRaven: Sorry, but what? Weight: 242gr for XX1 Type 2.1, vs 222 for XTR. 20gr is a minimal difference between the two and show if anything, how closely matched they are.

Do you have anything to backup your reliability claims? I've run SRAM for 5+years and have had zero issues. I've recently used XT on a build and have had to fiddle with the cable tension far more than I did with the SRAM setup that was on there before. However after the tension was set, both have been excellent.
  • 6 2
 @loganm2977: On SRAM the cable enters the derailleur at a point behind and below the pivot, it then wraps around a pulley and makes a 110-degree turn forward and then to the right around a beveled guide. So when this cable is pulled, the parallelogram slides toward the back of the bike in an almost horizontal plane. This means that the upper pulley offset is what manages chain wrap and chain-to-cog clearance.

On Shimano the cable enters the derailleur at a point behind and above the pivot, it then continues straight downward to the lever arm. So when this cable is pulled, the parallelogram slides down and inward. This means that chain wrap and chain-to-cog clearance is dependent on both the upper pulley offset and the parallelogram range. There are several advantages to this - Shimano derailleurs don't need as much cage offset to clear bigger cogs, therefore maintaining slightly better chain wrap throughout the cassette range, and also the horizontal clearance is much better - a trait Shimano has dubbed "Shadow" - Shimano's derailleurs don't stick out as far on the horizontal plane as do SRAM's. Finally there's the weight advantage - there's no extra pulley and cable guide, and the parallelogram is smaller.
  • 8 2
 @unclemuscles: 20gr is a 12% difference between those derailleurs. Whether it's a big deal or not is relative, but i'm told that the 17% difference in weight between the XX1 and XTR cassettes is HUGE so...

Conversely i've been running and recommending Shimano for about 20 years now and found their products to be high-quality and nearly perfectly reliable. Every mechanic I know personally holds the same opinion. From my experience SRAM's drivetrains have been higher maintenance and easier to break. I say this all the time but it seems like Pinkbike is the only place I find so many SRAM drivetrain fans. In person, at my local riding spots, all the riders I know and meet are riding Shimano by choice or SRAM "because that's what came with the bike".
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: Thank you.

I use Sram derailleurs. I love X-horizon but it does stick out sooooo far. It's never been a real problem, but it still worries me. Hopefully any new gravity line from Shimano deals with the reliability issues I've experienced with zee and saint derailleurs. Really just using a version of x horizon would do it. When they work they're amazing but they have a tendency to fail catastrophically without even being polite enough to wait until they smash into a rock into do so.

That and a ten tooth cog? Pretty sweet.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: I see your point about the weight, but my point is that a 20gr weight difference will be almost unnoticeable to all but the most discerning of riders.

I think that Shimano and SRAM both make very high quality products, and that that position is arguably more tenable than a one vs. the other situation. I know a lot of mechanics who hold that position as well. Different strokes....



To me, the largest contributing factor to Shimano's XT M8000 domination trailside is the XD driver. Its costly and time consuming for riders who want to upgrade with SRAM, but don't want to change hubs and pay the premium. Now that Shimano has come out with their own hub standard, I think it will level the playing field... that is unless XT 12speed will use the standard freehub body.

I owned or ridden: XX 2x10, XO 1x10, XO1 1x11, XT M8000 11, XT M8050 Di2, SLX, GX, GX eagle, NX, Red, Force 11, Dura Ace 11, Ultegra, and out of all of that - I prefer the feel of Sram shifting and the price of shimano. All groups have had their issues, some defects, others caused by my hands. I haven't seen anything over time and countless miles with both Shimano or SRAM that would make me say that one is outright more reliable or better.
  • 1 0
 @unclemuscles: No doubt XT wins on simple quality and price. XT is so cheap that it even beats GX, which is a level below it...for that reason riders are always pitting XT against GX and there's just no comparison...hold a GX11 derailleur in one hand and an M8000 in the other, you'll instantly understand what i'm talking about.

I'm not sure the new freehub will really matter. The cog pitch is the same between Shimano and SRAM drivetrains so there's no reason you can't just use a SRAM cassette with your Shimano drivetrain, and Sunrace has a very complete line of quality cassettes available...there is no combination that can't be done. XD, Shimano classic, or MicroSpline with 11-speed or 12-speed anywhere from 42t up to 50t.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: Agreed with price and weight, but I think GX eagle is good quality - and matches to XT in terms of reliability. I've had zero issues with both. GX is heavy, and there is no arguing that! I'd say that a more comparable option for XT would be X01/Eagle, but in terms of backwards compatibility - GX is the only option from SRAM.

Good point regarding the cog pitch and sunrace. I think the biggest limiting factor for many riders would be the necessary hub upgrade to get to the 12 speed era. Lots of folks I ride with don't have the coin to go replacing a wheelset or hub. I haven't tested anything from Sunrace yet, but that looks to be a good cost/compatibility option, albeit at a heavier weight.
  • 1 0
 @unclemuscles: Agree to disagree...note on the product lines though - XT M8000 was designed to go up against X1, not XO1. For the 12-speed generation, it appears as though SRAM has shuffled things slightly...but it's not really clear where they have targeted each line. It also appears that Shimano is positioning XTR to directly compete with XX1/XO1 this time around - XTR M9100 against XX1 and XTR M9120 against XO1. They did not really do that with 11-speed. So naturally then we would assume that XT M8100 will go up against GX...but then what about SLX? SLX compares really well with GX and would slaughter NX. So I dunno.
  • 1 0
 @TheRaven: I agree with the comparison, good point!
  • 3 1
 11 speed has been fine for me. Never felt the need for a 50t. But if it satisfies the masses then so be it.
  • 5 1
 once i am riding in that 46 tooth gear, i might as well be walking. and i am rarely spinning out the upper end of my gearing
  • 4 1
 Day before release? Right about time CRC and Jenson put it on sale.
  • 1 0
 12 speed, 2 cassette choices. 10-51 or a 10-45 cassette with smaller gaps between jumps. Oh and the crank is spiderless/direct mount. That's about all Google knows right now.
  • 3 0
 Waiting for new Saint and ZEE, they haven't been updated for six years.
  • 1 0
 A 5/7 speed DH cassette would be so nice.
But you can still use a road cassette and put away some gears.
  • 2 0
 @NotNamed: In fact I am now using a Sunrace 10 speed 11-42 cassette, put away the largest three pieces and there comes a 7 speed 11-28 cassette, very cheap, feel good and concise with Saint group.
  • 1 0
 Looks like they finally have an XTR wide range cassette. It was the one thing missing from their lineup. Now the question, is it 11 or 12 speed?
  • 2 0
 How nice of Matt Delorme to remove his watermark from these for you guys. Same camera, lens, date, etc...
  • 1 2
 Now that SRAM is coming out with a wireless ETap system, it would be great is Shimano came out with a solution that allows you to convert an existing XT or XTR Di2 group to wireless. I believe there is at least one other company that does this, but I would be a lot more comfortable with putting out coin on such an upgrade if it came from Shimano. Hopefully they can work around any possible patents that might be out there. Or, as Shimano is such a huge company maybe they can buy that technology or strike a licencing deal with that other company so that people can turn a wired electronic group into a wireless group and have the peace of mind they need that the conversion is reliable. That conversion kit should also be compatible with XTR and XT.
  • 1 0
 They don't want wireless. Thankfully.
  • 3 0
 I'll pass on the wireless, thanks. Last thing I want is to have to pull over on the trail and wait for my derailleur to reconnect.
  • 3 3
 DANG you SRAM for patenting the derailleur cage hold back mechanism. COME ON Shimano...love to see your own version of this to make rear wheel changes easier! PLEASE AND THANK YOU IN ADVANCE! Wink
  • 4 3
 More stuff that could break/add weight. It's not that hard to pull back the derailleur cage and pull the wheel out.
  • 3 1
 @lemonaid: classic example of SRAM creating inferior shit and convincing people it’s gold plated gold
  • 1 0
 Disengage the clutch before you remove the wheel, it’ll make the job a lot easier
  • 4 1
 I’m going to say that 100% you are right. Worked in a Shop for years, ride regular. I’ve got SRAM, girlfriend got Shimano.. and 10000% of the time, I hate putting her back wheel in. Especially with fat carbon chainstays that snag the disk/trap the chain. I think that the SRAM lock button is the most overlooked little touch on all modern mech’s and makes life hella easier (and no chips off the carbon frame), especially when putting the bikes away in the dark/poor light conditions
  • 1 0
 @ThomDawson:
@lemonaid:
You guys are idiots
If you can’t see the good things sram and shimano have both done for the sport somewhat equally then you are part of the problem not the solution.
  • 1 0
 @jflb: which problem is that? War? Famine?
I am one the most liberal people you’d ever hope to meet. But can’t I just have this one hate? SRAM smells like poo and you know it. Chill. They’re just a couple of companies making bicycle parts. Well one makes parts, the other makes marketing.
  • 3 1
 Is there even a real need for 12 speed? Just make a ten or eleven speed cassette go up to 50t
  • 2 0
 Huh, i’m sure it’s been pointed out above this, but the screenshot of Shimano website has been removed.
  • 1 0
 The cat is out of the bag !
New XTR will be 12speed,
10-51 cassette,
510% ratio
New freehub - obviously we need another one!

Will be out tomorrow!
  • 1 1
 Sorry but why does shimano need 12 speed? The difference from gear to gear is too small, you're always double shifting. Of you need a huge cog in the rear get a double up front.
  • 1 0
 Finally Shimano coming out with some up to date gear, lets hope its good so I can purge all sram made components from my bike
  • 1 0
 Hopefully not 12 speed. 11 is already too many gears to have to shift through. I kinda want to switch back to 10 speed now that there are 11-42t cassettes for 10s.
  • 1 0
 Shimano, please make a 6 speed 11-42. Would be the greatest thing for mountain biking. Don't be dumb like Sram. The less gears the better.
  • 1 1
 New XTR group set.
cdn.brujulabike.com/media/1024/conversions/Shimano%20XTR%20M9100-1000.jpg

New freewheel body looks crazy.
New discs, sick.
Chainring looks narrow-wide.
Lots of center lock.
  • 4 6
 Just glad to see Shimano finally giving some thought to eh cosmetics versus the scrap metal look they’ve been peddling for years. Obviously that doesn’t really matter but when you pay a premium it’s nice to have a product that looks good and refined.
  • 1 0
 So the smaller cog has 10 teeth. Does that mean a new freehub standard *sigh* ?
  • 2 0
 No more direct mount derailleurs?
  • 1 0
 Nope, still doesn't look ready to me based on the perfect finish. MY2020 if we're lucky.
  • 2 0
 51 one you long time! So good to see that Shimano is back at it!
  • 2 1
 I hope there will be a 12 speed 10-50(ish) Shimano cassette under $100. The Sram prices are crazy.
  • 1 0
 @paulaston - pretty sure this is the clutch lever as usual.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/15935260
  • 2 0
 Good spot, Hawkeye!
  • 1 0
 They are only about 2 years behind SRAM. Seven more years and it should trickle down to Xt and Slx
  • 1 0
 Interesting. A dropper lever. Splined cassette but smaller diameter body for a ten tooth? Trail brakes with 4 pots.
  • 1 0
 Sure looks like a 50 tooth cog.
  • 2 0
 According to the leak info, there are two cassette. One is a 10-51 and the other is a 10-45.
  • 1 0
 Well done Pinkbike peeperazi
  • 2 1
 please don't go with a 30mm crank axle Shimano nor 28.99mm...
  • 1 1
 I am waiting for the 11 speed 10-50 XT cassette mounted on a standard freehub body.
  • 1 0
 "An eagle-eyed Pinkbike fan" Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Shimano Direct mount FK yes Hope they've kept the pinch bolts
  • 1 0
 So, does it use the forgotten SHIMANO CAPREO freehub?
  • 1 0
 New Shimano cassettes will be using a new cassette freehub body.
  • 1 0
 Hopefully it’s not 2 years till we see XT....
  • 1 0
 Surprised they didn't go straight to Di2...
  • 1 0
 Lets talk more about that fork...
  • 1 0
 Damn it... I just bought an 11 speed 11-46 set up.
  • 1 0
 It seems the Pandora's Box is opening...
  • 1 0
 I heard it uses a XD driver! lololol
  • 1 0
 I also learned Jolanda Neff has a killer set of gams. Good for her.
  • 1 0
 12 speed Sramano setup would be sweet!
  • 1 0
 shimano seagull? nice ring to it
  • 1 0
 26 is still not dead! And I saved a bunch of money in car insurance!
  • 2 1
 Shimano... still riding SRAMs coattails.
  • 1 0
 I thought the new XTR was being released today? Lies
  • 3 2
 I count 11
  • 2 0
 I stand corrected
  • 1 0
 Do a 13 speed
  • 2 1
 I think it's 12 speed .
  • 5 5
 SRAM Eagle with new colors!
  • 1 1
 I hope they split the difference with 11.5 speed to match my wheels.
  • 1 0
 About time!
  • 5 5
 Will XTR finally weigh less than SRAM's GX level?
  • 9 8
 maybe not, but it'll be exponentially better... GX is garbage
  • 6 0
 UM????

SRAM GX11 weight
Casette - 342g
Derailleur - 263g
Shifter - 122g
Crank arms - 558g
Total - 1267g

XTR M9000 weight
Casette - 328g
Derailleur - 222g
Shifter - 118g
Crank arms - 470g
Total - 1138g

When you take into account that XTR Is all carbon and metal and GX is largely plastic, the difference is even bigger.
  • 1 0
 They had me at 10T
  • 1 0
 13speed 4sho
  • 1 0
 And no Di2 option..
  • 1 0
 I welcome the new RD.
  • 1 1
 welcome to the 21st centery shimano
  • 1 1
 Just wanted to point out that 3x9 came out in the 21st century. We thought it was pretty badass at the time too.
  • 1 0
 Brah stfu
  • 5 7
 "Surely 12 speed is the only option..." no, I just want a wide range 11 speed (or hell 10 speed), why do I need extra gears?
  • 1 1
 you already have that, why not have more options for others?
  • 3 2
 @Asmodai: I just don't care for the insinuation that 12 speed is necessary and more gears are better.
  • 1 2
 @ZappBrannigan: more gears spreads the ratios so you don't get a massive jump in between each gear. It's just common sense.
  • 3 2
 @codfather1234: But on a mountain bike you have to shift multiple gears at a time on almost every shift. Let's be honest, if they could make a 11-42 6 speed that shifted quick, that would probably be the ultimate thing for real mountain bikers. The less gears the better. Give us that option, not more stuff for weak clueless new buyers.
  • 2 4
 Apparently you can sell a$$ in the Czech Republic. Oh, Europe.
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