Spotted: BlackBox RockShox Lyrik - Andes Pacifico 2018

Feb 13, 2018
by Mike Kazimer  
RockShox 2019


The 5-day Andes Pacifico enduro race just started in Chile, but Dave Trumpore has already spotted a few previously unseen components. The most notable is a BlackBox labeled RockShox Lyrik. The fork appears to have the same low-speed compression adjusting dial as the current model, but the secondary dial isn't the typical three-position version that we're used to seeing. Does this mean the high-speed compression adjustment found on past models of the Lyrik will be making a comeback?


RockShox 2019
The BlackBox Lyrik appears to have adjustable low- and high-speed compression damping.
RockShox 2019
RockShox originally developed their DebonAir technology to improve the small bump sensitivity of their air shocks, but it's now used in their forks as well.


RockShox 2019
Santa Cruz's Hightower LT currently doesn't use metric spacing, but the RockShox Super Deluxe is only available in metric sizes. Hmmm....


RockShox 2019
This rim profile looks like what Bouwmeester Composites used on their wheels until they ceased operation when Mello Bouwmeester was hired by the Selle Royal Group, the parent company of Crankbrothers. Jason Schiers, the founder of ENVE also now works for that group; putting the clues together it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to expect Crankbrothers to debut some new carbon wheels in the near future.



143 Comments

  • + 306
 CrankBros carbon wheels : I'd be scared to even roll down the street with these
  • + 19
 I'd send 'em if they were sponsored.
  • + 37
 crapbrothers? crackbrothers?
  • + 224
 If you want a close up of that photo, I'd advise clicking very gently. Even a harsh mouse click of the photo could break them
  • + 16
 Crankbrothers iodine wheels are the worst set of wheels i have ever owned. EVER
  • - 11
flag kilazilla (Feb 13, 2018 at 3:46) (Below Threshold)
 Will CrankBros carbon wheels get cranky and won't spin smoothly?
  • + 17
 I went to the crank brothers/syndicate meet up at CB headquarters in Laguna Beach not too long ago. Apparently these are gonna be some high end/expensive wheels with a solid warranty policy. The guys at CB made it clear they realize they’re going up against Santa Cruz’s warranty policy...
  • + 23
 @theberk: now they just have to go against Santa Cruz’s actual product quality...
  • - 21
flag yzedf (Feb 13, 2018 at 10:30) (Below Threshold)
 Judging on how the hole was drilled misaligned for the nipple... things are on track to enter production ASAP!
  • + 16
 @yzedf, spoke nipple holes aren't perfectly centered down the middle of a rim - they alternate sides. Take a look at the wheels on your bike to see for yourself.
  • + 3
 @yzedf: That's actually correct, and they laced it correctly too. Bigger triangle == larger bracing angle.
  • + 3
 @Flowcheckers:

Send 'em in for warranty?
  • + 1
 @UtahBikeMike: no luck they only had a one year...they literally fell apart after 2 seasons haha had to buy some race face hoops. That's the last CB product i will ever buy
  • + 1
 @IllestT: hahahahaha well played sir well played
  • + 2
 Inside knowledge: CB's issues were highly driven by the fact that the engineers ran product management. If you've ever worked with a company where this is the case, you know the problem. If an end user does something not expected by the engineer, it's the end users fault. eg: riding a dropper post in the mud, and having a bit too much tension on the cable = post fails. Engineer says it's the end user fault. A true product manager would say, how to we handle this without failure. Till CB changes this attitude their products will continue to fail.
  • + 2
 @ShredlyMcShredface: mhmmm, to me it was the other way around : too much marketing, not enough engineering
  • + 1
 Anybody know what font that black box sticker is in?
  • + 54
 There was a blackbox sticker on a Revelation RLT Ti I had, I'm not sure if they all had that or if mine was special, but that fork did feel pretty damn special! I'm a sucker for skunkwerks stuff, you could stick shelby, black edition or gazoo racing on a brick and I'd probably set it as the background on my phone
  • + 6
 @GumptionZA: I hear you. Sneaky and trick $hit...I'm all in.
  • + 7
 You can buy stickers like that from a guy in an alley. Nothing special here. :-)
  • + 17
 @headshot: Never seen a guy in an alley selling stickers. Crack and whores yes, stickers no. Maybe they do things differently in S.A.
  • + 5
 @headshot: by the way, you looking for new stickers ... my new unobtanium fusion bonded custom molded rim decals are now available, they are also 2grams lighter and there is a red option, which we all know makes one faster.
  • + 2
 That’s funny about the phone
  • + 7
 @HairyLegs: I got these cheeeseburgers man...
  • + 2
 @Boardlife69: You won't find sticker dealers in any old alley, you need to know the right ones.
  • + 2
 The Ti is why it was black box. The black box revelations have a Ti (titanium) spring tube on the compression damper and a shimmed rebound damper. The regular RLT version had a plastic spring tube and a simple orifice rebound damper.
  • + 1
 That BBMoCo damper was super nice
  • + 2
 @mullen119: geek props for knowing your shit sir.
  • + 23
 A black dial? Rockshox, where's your marketing strategy? I woulda added some bogus dials and doohickeys: "We asked Rockshox but they wouldn't tell us what the concentric pair of green dials with the '+/- %' etched on it does, probably not compression since we assume that's controlled by the remote reservoir. It seems you can change the volume of the reservoir by turning the top of the barrel with a 15mm spanner, and the two grub screws (probably LSC and HSC) are adjusted with a T25 bit..." etc. Send us keyboard engineers into a frenzy.
  • + 1
 Yes focus on the dial! I wonder why there is no picture of the crown on the spring side...
  • + 4
 Hopefully the new Lyrik has LSC and HSC. Normaly I am a Rockshox fan but those adjustments give the Fox 36 a big advantage.
  • + 3
 @kamelfront: Agreed. Air cartridge pictured, but HSC comes in mighty handy with a coil, here's to hoping!
  • + 1
 @kamelfront: Fox 36, Cane Creek Helm, DVO Diamond, Ohlins RXF......seriously Sram, what took so long to get high- and low-speed compression?
  • + 1
 @zsandstrom: What if it takes a just takes a splined socket to remove the cartridge and that's not a knob whatsoever after all?

I looked, they make splined sockets with 12 splines in that size.
  • + 5
 @kamelfront: I like that high speed dampening on the charger dampers is managed via shim stacks. For avg. weight riders the stock shim stack configuration works amazing....heck the charger damper was game changer when it was introduced a few years ago. More adjustments may not necessarily lead to better performance.
  • + 21
 I like those *Blackbox* fork decals. Hmm...might have to make some.
  • + 24
 expect some people to be madly rushing around taking photos of your bike.
  • + 3
 @BradenW: haha...didn't even think of that.
  • + 4
 Nah, wouldn't excite me in the slightest. I don't read words that long. I'd think it is a Manitou Black and move on. It is pretty much the same font, innit?
  • + 18
 Blackbox was always the secret sauce of the racing world, would love to see it on more pro's bikes again.
  • + 10
 Glad to that at least their racers can get forks with adult settings from SRAM.

For the rest of us, we need to be content with new names for things that don't mean anything - DebonAIR, Rapid Recation, AcidReflux and dummy dials because even though we can spend 1200$ on a fork we can't be trusted to set it up.
  • + 2
 Its annoying that all there “technologies” have like cringy names. Not like anyone really remembers them or cares.
  • + 8
 so rock shox is trying to make a RC2 36 with evol...? I guess if your going to try to copy a fork that would be the one to copy, also I know metric size shocks have a different size then imperial but if the bike is made for imperial, why could you not just put a metric shock that is close to the same size would it not work? ok let me have it PB here we go
  • + 4
 I imagine it's something to do with mounting point compatibility with imperial bikes. Fvckers probably introduced a new eyelet standard at the same time. Total guess, I've never touched a metric shock, but I'd be shocked if it weren't true.
  • + 6
 Metric shocks of similar stroke are much longer in eye to eye length, and similar length shocks have much shorter strokes. That's where the "better bushing overlap" comes from. Trunnion mount exist to reduce this effect aka solves the problem that was created first.. And the only place you need that increased overlap are bikes with that stupid shock extension yoke nonsense.
  • + 4
 @hirvi: there are a lot of those stupid shock extension yokes these days. Which came first, chicken or the egg?
HTLT uses a 200x57 I think? There’s a 210x55 metric size Rockshox shock with standard fitment I believe. Not a million miles off. Yes I’m aware 10mm at the shock equates to like 25mm at the rear axle but there are ways to make it right if you have the means.
But for SC those means are probably just that they moved the shock mounts to work properly with a metric shock. Perhaps they’ve also tweaked some other geometry issues? Doesn’t seem like SC though, they’d usually save such tweaks for a redesign but I suppose the HTLT was a bit of a rehash to begin with?
  • - 4
flag chrisrobin (Feb 13, 2018 at 4:40) (Below Threshold)
 Actually, if they were to copy a fork, the Fox 36 is not the one to copy. Constant issues.
  • + 2
 Perhaps different length shock gives more travel or steeper seat tube angle?
  • + 1
 @metareal: well...a 210x55 shock would actually yield 5mm less travel than the current 200x57 so not exactly ‘long travel’. More likely they’ve adjusted the frame to run a 230x60? Delivering more like 152mm travel to match the 150 (or even 160?) up front.
Could be they’ve added some reach back that was lost when they went LT, made a little more room for a longer shock and made the LT even moar LT?
Still doesn’t seem like SC to do this sort of incremental change but I did think it was odd when they brought out the LT in the first place which is basically a bodged Hightower.
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson: 200x50*
  • + 2
 @chillrider199: I thought the OG Hightower used a 200x50 and the LT uses a 200x57? But I am far too poor to have ever been near one. I am not worthy.
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson: Im not entirely sure. If you go to CaneCreeks website they have like an index for every bike that is in the market for a correct shock fit. It shows you the numbers for all frames. Thats how I got that number. Unless if they are wrong about it? I dont own a SC so, yeah, no idea haha.
  • + 0
 Trunnuion 205x60 maybe with some shims to reduce travel.
  • + 11
 Imperial super deluxe!?!?
  • + 11
 Probably not, most likely metric parts for the Hightower LT to metric-convert it. Smile
They were all shouting out loud how metric is the way better standart to go for shocks.
  • + 16
 Probably changed shaft diameter to 28.99 as well
  • + 2
 @winko: It's common knowledge these day that girth is just as important as length for your shaft...
  • + 1
 Go check Allan Cooke's insta, his list of items for Andes includes mention of a custom link for the HTLT.
  • + 10
 Cool we finally get to ride on time .... I'll get my coat ...
  • + 2
 Amazing !!!
  • + 3
 This will not be beaten today.
  • + 2
 Brilliant. Have an upvote
  • + 2
 took a moment, but yes awesome.
  • + 1
 Someone's going to have to explain it to me.
  • + 3
 @panaphonic: you just walked right in...walked walked walked right in
  • + 1
 @panaphonic: Thank, thank, thank you, baby
  • + 1
 @panaphonic, just don't move.
  • + 6
 I've never understood why bicycle wheels have a different cross section that motorcycle wheels. Almost all motorcycle wheels have the same cross section as HED fatbike rims and what appears to be these rims. Seems like these would be lighter due to less material but much stronger for their weight.
  • + 5
 As an owner of rockshox lyrics 160mm,I really don’t think they need a high speed adjuster. I never find them out of their depth or spiking and high shaft speeds. The only mod I’ve added is the luftkappa which really does make a hell of a difference to small bump sensitivity and allows a much higher pressure to be used. I currently run 100 psi with 3 tokens for my 87kg weight. Very supple but ramp up great on big hits and drops. I think the factory high speed is set as good as needed tbh.
  • + 4
 To be honest, PB saw a dial and went wild guessing what it is. Have they actually touched it? They don't know how it is indexed and what it does. Maybe it is still just a three position adjuster. It is blackbox, they can just pick something from the box of concentric dials as long as it fits and the rider knows how to work with it.
  • + 4
 Using shockwiz for my 170mm lyrik from 2016 it says that the HSC should be made much more softer than it is. Everything else is just right. I would like a HSC adjustment now that I know what I need to adjust Wink
  • + 8
 I think that black dial is to alter the amount of boost.
  • + 4
 Not a fan of dumbing down shock tuning like they seem to do with Rockshox forks. They do work well but have their limitations and I much prefer hydraulic bottom out control like Manitou use rather than tokens which cause a spikey quick rebound. Think RS need to add another more adjustable level to their range IMO
  • + 4
 Coming from a Mattoc onto a newer 36, I'm scared to see what the new 36 feels like because the Mattoc was a spectacular fork.
  • + 2
 @defineindecline: I put an R7 on my old 26er. Incredible fork. Great low speed sensitivity made the fire road chatter disappear on climbs. HSC never seemed to be an issue for its 100mm of travel either. If my Pike died a sudden death, I'd consider a Mattoc for sure.
  • + 2
 @Poulsbojohnny: awesome! I had an R7 on my old stumpjumper about seven or eight years back! The damping and control of the stroke made the Mattoc. Forever a believer in the Dorado air system and IRT. MRP ramp control seems to mimic the IRT (or vice versa, not sure which came first) so I've been thinking of giving that a try a little ways down the road if I don't like the feel of the 36.
  • + 3
 Hell YES re the wheels, after seeing plenty of Bowmeester wheels and users experience, can not wait for him to release these, even if they are under the crankbros name. These will not be like any other CB product, I’m sure Mello will make sure of that.
  • + 3
 I'm done with RS. They are such a hassle to deal with as every small part I need from them needs to go though a LBS, which I don't have.

Wavy washer for my Boxxer? A 50 cent part they could have mailed to me in an envelope... What a hassle!
  • + 3
 The world is well on its way to online businesses being the norm. Any company that digs in its heels is going to feel it on the customer experience end of things. Delivering small parts like you’ve identified would bring end-user costs down and increase satisfaction with owning that product. I hear ‘ya Mike. ...but does RockShox?
  • + 1
 @cwatt: Yep. They aren't going to hear from me any more for sure... Just bought an MRP Coil to replace my Pike. Changing out most of the guts from my Boxxer too, so I won't have to haggle with them for a small broken part 5 days before a big bike trip. Hate cutting out the middle-man, but I've almost never lived in a place with a reliable, full service LBS anyway, so mostly do it on my own. Glad more options are opening online to buy direct.
  • + 7
 Does this fork come with 34.99mm stanchions?
  • + 6
 About time they did an rc2. Hi low rebound would be awesome too. I might actually consider rock shock again if they do.
  • + 3
 If the adjusters work as they should- on my last Lyrik RC2DH adjusting HS/LS didnt make a noticable difference sadly
  • + 0
 @NotNamed: I've yet to own a fork where it does ,Think it's all hype mate
  • + 4
 @konacyril: on my 2 X Fusion forks you really feel a difference at the adjustments.
I find it hilarious that my 40 Float and Lyrik both had these adjusters and you didnt feel a difference- the X Fusion for 200€ performs better than these two and you feel the difference between every click.
  • + 3
 @konacyril: it’s noticable on the 36
  • + 2
 @konacyril: Try a Diamond
  • + 2
 Debonair was only a matter of time. Considering Vorsprung were supplying parts to an unnamed enduro racer that finished near or on the pointy end of the field last season I think its safe to say they are getting with the times.
  • + 2
 Blackbox, is that code for more or less plastic in the damper? The charger is their first damper that's anywhere close to what dirt bikes we're doing decades ago.

If I had the money I'd ride fox or just custom cartridges and never touch another rockshox "damper" as long as I live. Rockshox would be better off reverse engineering an avi cart this point.
  • + 4
 Don't know why you got downvoted, I've broken plenty of plastic rockshox internals.
  • + 2
 @stumpymidget: To be fair I trolled hard the way I put it.

I do ride Sram brakes, drivetrain AND suspension after all. I have a boxxer with motion control in it right now, so really I'm just bitter that I can't afford a charger damper yet.

Now that being said, and not necessarily in my defense, I am interested in the reasons for why mountain bike suspension dampers in forks are just now beginning to catch up with what is decades old technology in other industries. Comparing a racetech emulator and a motion control damper I can't help but wonder how much cost and effort is required to produce at that level of precision and, respectively, if that much cost cutting was of true value to any consumers. As it is I've "ported" the orifice on my Boxxer to the point where the blue dial is only for looks, and reshimmed it with a much softer, though larger, speed stack. It FINALLY doesn't try and break my wrists as I ride. Stock as a downhill fork for anything but jumps motion control damping is utterly useless.

I don't have the pertinent details or know *#$% about manufacturing at that scale, or any scale for that matter, there could be very good reasons Motion control looks the way it does and plastic was turned to in so many cases. Smarter people than me know.
  • - 1
 @LoganKM1982: it feels like it's way behind and cheaply made because it's a SRAM product, trying to squeeze as much profit out as they can, to the detriment of the consumer.

on the other hand, look at the dampers in manitou forks. well made, shimmed dampers in open baths, with hydraulic bottom-out - all the things that people pay $500 to Avalanche racing to "fix" their rockshox forks.

even Manitou's cheapest, lowest end fork uses an open bath and comes with shimmed compression and rebound dampers. meanwhile, even some of RS' more expensive forks still come with their motion control dampers, which, at best, can be described as "not completely horrible".
  • + 5
 Was hoping/expecting this would be a hint about a coil Lyrik. Frown
  • + 4
 I thought blackbox program was dead
  • + 1
 Love anything with a charger damper. Having bought my fork as a blown up 26 boxxer for cheap and dropping a charger damper and some new 27.5 lowers on it saved me $400 or so cad to buy a new boxxer at wholesale.
  • + 3
 Where is the actual Andes Pacifico update and pics?
  • + 3
 Too much wired informations
  • + 1
 It's hard to tell for sure, but does the offset on that fork look a bit shorter? I noticed the knobs seem a bit further back than normal (like SBG)?
  • + 1
 Now that you mention it it does seem like it is shorter but the angle makes it difficult to tell for sure. Maybe it's the same as the one for new Transitions.
  • + 1
 @vid1998: Normally, I think the adjustments seem to come a little further forward of the headtube, but you are right, it's hard to tell with the angle.

I'll also put on my tinfoil hat and wonder if that's why we didn't get a full axle to crown shot of the one on the Nomad in the first photo?
  • + 1
 @Adodero: Just now I've seen that there are 2 DIFFERENT bikes and thus forks (I really need to start thinking while looking at something...). I've found the owner of the Nomad (someone mentioned in the comments), its Allan Cooke on the instagram (pic of the bike www.instagram.com/p/BfGrUIIBWbv/?taken-by=ac_fabz ).
To me the fork looks just like the one used in the stock Nomad but I can't find the offset of that.
  • + 2
 Does someone remember the Last time we saw a a boxxer blackbox?
  • + 1
 Snapped a few sets of crapbros mallet pedals in my time, never shimano. Then there is the dropper post ..
  • + 1
 That bike build was seen through these last days on Instagram, and belongs to Allan Cooke, Santa Cruz team manager.
  • + 2
 Nope... None of these are Allan's bike and one is an employee of a component/suspension brand ;-)
  • + 2
 @davetrumpore: That's intriguing!!
  • + 2
 @davetrumpore: haha too much assuming from my side after seeing the bike on Allan's ig these last two days Wink
  • + 2
 New Hightower LT and new Lyrik Big Grin
  • + 1
 So now Santacruz Hightower LT big change is that it has metric shock spacing...crickets
  • + 0
 For me 3 position is better in Oder to have fast adjustment on a trail. Why they stopped producing carbon version of forks like old revelations?
  • + 0
 I don’t know why they stopped but carbon steerer/ crown assembly was shaving 50g and adding 150$ or something like that. I must admit the Lyriks current knob is just fine.
  • + 2
 Cause probably they managed to drop the weight of the newer ones without carbon, and even if they made a carbon Pike with a ridiculously low weight, it would cost bonkersly big money....
  • + 3
 @hitarpotar: youre right, but ridicously low weight combined with bonkersly big money seems to be exactly SRAMS marketing strategy. ( e.g. compare cassettes with shimano)
  • + 1
 @hitarpotar: yep but you can buy that pike at Christmas sales, and difference would`t be so big
  • + 5
 @daweil: Sorry, in my opinion Sram cassettes do deserve to be ridiculous money compared to Shimano's: their craftmanhip is on another level, nreachable by Shimano at the moment. They're at the forefront of the cassette-building and in some ways do dictate how the industry goes regarding cassettes. They manage to make lighter cassettes than Shimano OUT OF STEEL, which wear slower, are more beautiful, easier to clean, and just look like a gem. As for the forks, all brands cost money in the high-end stuff, not just SRAM. But you have to admit Sram really upped their suspension game in the last 2-3 years! And i'm telling all this as a fan of Shimano shifting and Manitou suspension. Smile
@nvidia: At Christmas sale you'd be able to find both carbon and non-carbon Pikes, for example. And voi la - the difference would still be big. Smile Probable reason for no carbon Pike - enduro began to look more and more like a light-DH competition, so a carbon steerer and crown would find it hard to have a long life. Smile And on top of that, enduro-bikes are light enough for competitive enduro without the carbon-mumbo-jumbo (for the record, i used to own a Revelation XX WC 150mm until 6 months ago - beautiful piece of equipment!!!). Smile
  • + 4
 @hitarpotar: "Sorry, in my opinion Sram cassettes do deserve to be ridiculous money compared to Shimano's: their craftmanhip is on another level, nreachable by Shimano at the moment."

It's not craftmanship, it's CNCing a billet instead of making a composite/alu spider and putting stamped cogs on it. Guess which one is more technologically advanced and requires more complex tooling? And Shimano cogs are made of various sorts of steel then ti depending on a model.

Carbon in forks is useless for the most part. Marginal gains at maximal costs can be achieved making carbon CSU. It's fully motivated in RS-1 then maybe in arch on DVO. Considering how much Enduro bikes are tossed around (even just to put the bike on the ground with rocks around, against other bikes on shuttle) putting any carbon there is just asking yourself for trouble.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: agreed on the forks. As for cassettes, as english ain't my mother's language, i'm not entirely sure what you mean. I accept your correction about craftsmanship/CNCing, you're right. However, i don't care which one's more complex or time-consuming to be made, or what tools are used in the process - i care about looks, wear, performance, maintanance, weight, price. Sram's high-end cassettes are lighter, more beautiful, offer greater range, steel has a great wear-ratio, and as funny as it sounds - steel cogs are cleaned easier than ti-ones, not sure why, that's just my expirience (dirtyness just gets away from steel cogs easier than alu- or ti-ones). As for price, both Shimano and Sram high end stuff is costly - if i'm to spend a bucket of cash on a cassette, i'd choose to spend a little bit more and get the best stuff in my eyes. Smile
  • + 2
 @hitarpotar: Sram cassettes are costly as hell regardless of the model. Their NX and GX are crap yet cost as much as XT. To match the wear of 80€ XT cassette you need to go X1 for 200€. Off course XT weighs a ton. That’s why Both companies look silly by comparison Sunrace and Praxis
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: i don't consider the XT cassette very high-end - Praxis and Sunrace cassettes are real alternatives to it. but high-end is he XO/XX/Leonardi cassettes, may be even the e13 - all cassettes that push the limits of innovation, each of these companies has smth innovative in its model (the Eagle cassettes are 12-speed and a huge range, e13's got a 9t small cog, thanks to it the biggest range for an 11-speed block, Leonardi now is also 12-speed and is 9-46 or 9-48 and lighter than XX1 Eagle). Smile

P.S. how the hell did we end up discussing cassettes while starting out with carbon CSUs for forks?!?!?! Big Grin
  • + 0
 @hitarpotar: I cried when used to change my carbon black box revelation rct3 to pike:,-(
  • + 0
 @hitarpotar: sram cassettes are great till all the pins start creaking like mine! Replaced twice for same thing. On shimano now and loving the silence and half the price!
  • + 1
 @mikelee: Pins - sounds like a low-end cassette or a mid-range stuff. I'm talking about high-end stuff - no pins there. Nevertheless, cheaper cassettes from Sram also look better - i've got a Sram 1070 cassette for several years and it has never been problematic, still lots of life in it. I now have a XX 1099 cassette siting back home, waiting to be mounted. Smile Not planning to buy a Shimano cassette... although i would change my Saint 820 drivetrain only for the next Saint. Smile
  • + 1
 @hitarpotar: it was the X1 cassette so hardly cheap at £170! I’d never spend that again on a part that wears so quickly either. I’ll stick with xt now. Much cheaper and no creaking. The top sram cassettes are better being machined from one piece but the price is crazy for a part that’ll last 12 months at best in uk riding conditions. Sram did warranty them no probs though but I sold the third and went back to shimano.
  • + 2
 @mikelee: not to mention the fact that if you want to switch you lash out 70£ for a freehub body.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns:

$70 Is a drop in the bucket of costs. That's one maxxis or schwalbe tire here.

Sram cassettes are one of the few instances where i feel the cost is justified. My preferred 11s setup was an x1 casette with m8000 shifty bits.

10 speed shimano/sram the shimano were better.

My m8000 cassettes sound like you're plucking a can every time you shift, don't shift as well and the steps are horrible on the wide spread cassettes.

Yes the x1 casettes are expensive. This year I ended up just getting GX eagle because it was only $80 more for the whole setup because i needed a new casette and RD. I can't be mad about the x1 casette as it lasted 3k miles over 3 years. Sometimes I'd go through 2 10 speed xt casettes in a single season.

Gx 12s shifts better than my 11s x1/shimano and won't be as expensive to replace. Sometimes change is good.
  • + 1
 @UtahBikeMike: There is very little chance I will ever buy a Shimano or Sram cassette, I'm sucking on Sunrace or Praxis in coming years. Right now I have M9001 XTR in my bike. I have a rather unused M8000 cassette up in the attic an I hope I won't need to use is again because of backpedalling issue. I'm also not pedantic about shifting. If you give me a GX and XX1 cassette I guarantee you I won't notice the difference in shifting when in the woods. That is one of the reasons why I'm so "whatthefkever" with 11sp, I am actually annoyed with how many shifts it takes to go from the bottom to the top of the cassette, even though I run it for the second year now. i will never run Eagle and will hate Shimano for going 12sp. I like clunky shifters, no ghost shifts (which comes down to setup and maintenance) and as litle back pedal derailling as possible. That's as much as I care. Smooth steps between gears , easy gearing, I leave it for 2nd hour my pseudo road bike when I have had enough time for first world problems Big Grin
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns:

Takes 3 full revolutions backpedaling to knock my chain off the largest eagle cog. Just sayin'
  • + 1
 @UtahBikeMike: Boost in the rear old party in the front?
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns:

Nope, riding an ancient bike without boost
  • + 1
 We are one outlier?
  • + 0
 Compression dampening is dumb
  • + 2
 Ramp up is a good idea, but general compression dampening is just spring rate, I don't see the difference. You're right.
  • - 3
 Hmm so will that black dial become a new standard, called dub compression? and now all forks will be obsolete? Wouldn’t be surprised. Lol
  • - 3
 "When you said it was over you ain't got my heart
Oh, everybody
Oh, everybody
Everybody
Oh, everybody
Oh, everybody
Everybooooddyyyyy!"
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