Spotted: Pivot's Lugged Carbon DH Bike Prototype

Jun 3, 2023
by Mike Kazimer  
photo

It's no secret that Pivot has been working on a new downhill bike, thanks in part to a tour of their in-house R&D facility we published earlier this year. That tour revealed the aluminum-lugged carbon construction that was being used for the new bike, a method that Pivot says reduces the time required to make a rideable prototype. It also makes it easier to adjust the frame design, whether that's via a different tube or lug, without starting over completely.

With the first DH World Cup of the season finally about to get underway, Bernard Kerr hasn't been shy about sharing images of the new bike. We're working on getting some better shots now that it's out in the open, but in the meantime it's still worth digging into what Pivot has been cooking up.

photo
photo


The bike appears to be using a high-pivot version of Dave Weagle's DW6 suspension design. There's a rocker link connecting the seatstays to the frame and then the shock, and two short links connecting the elevated chainstays to the seat tube. Compared to the DW4 design, which uses two short links to connect a swingarm to the front triangle, the DW6 configuration is easier to adapt to different frame geometries and chainstay lengths.

photo
Two chains. It's a vibe.

The bike also uses a dual chain setup, also likely another Dave Weagle design – Seb Stott went over the specifics of the patent here. The benefits of this configuration include improved chain wrap compared to other idler pulley setups, and the ability to run a smaller chainring at the cranks, increasing ground clearance.

We'll see if all of the off-season testing pays off when racing begins in Lenzerheide next week. Qualification takes place on Friday, June 9th, and then semi-finals and finals are on Saturday, June 10th.

We've reached out to Pivot for comment, and will update this article if any more details are revealed.

photo


Author Info:
mikekazimer avatar

Member since Feb 1, 2009
1,716 articles

125 Comments
  • 89 4
 That bike is absolutely gorgeous!!! Shut up and take my money!! (If I had any...)
  • 42 1
 don't get too excited, the final version will just be normal carbon construction. the lugs are just for prototyping.
  • 73 3
 It’s a pivot. You’re going to need A LOT.
  • 7 0
 I’m having an affair on my bike right now!!!
  • 17 3
 @brighterlights: So why don't the bike manufacturers make lugged carbon bikes? Seems as if it would reduce the production time/costs, be equally as strong as full carbon, allow lower price points (?), and give us yet another discussion debate item such as flat vs. clipped pedals. :-)
  • 29 1
 @jddallager: not cheapest in production, lowest cost and complexity in rapid prototyping. Once the designs are dialed, tooling (expensive part) will be finalized. Pressing composites for mass production overseas seems like it will always reign most cost effective.
  • 19 0
 @nskerb: yo dawg we heard you like pivots so we made a pivot bike to include pivotal movement
  • 16 1
 DW6 is my 6th favourite of Dave Weagles best ever suspension designs.
  • 18 0
 I lugg it; I lugg it a lot!
  • 24 1
 @jddallager: ever heard of Atherton Bikes?
  • 3 12
flag jrocksdh (Jun 3, 2023 at 17:58) (Below Threshold)
 But for all that orange..gross
  • 15 2
 Dope! More innovation articles on the site, please. Less John Doe shreds schralps rips rides sends slashes xyz trail
  • 5 1
 @jddallager: Athertons?
  • 5 4
 @HaggeredShins: Laying up a carbon tube can be fully automated, the same goes for machining the lugs(potentially forged first), and bonding the 2 together doesn't take a ton of labor. Laying up a traditional carbon frame has to be done by hand and is not a quick process. Guerilla Gravity is using a compression molding process that they have automated to some extent and you see that reflected in their competitive pricing with US made carbon frames. I have a feeling you could get the price of a production version of a lugged frame at or below a traditional carbon frame if a company wanted to make it happen.
  • 3 1
 @millsr4: Possibly, but like all things it comes with a series of tradeoffs. Lugged composite frames preceded monocoque construction in cycling, you still can find tons of 80's and 90's examples on eBay. I'm no materials scientist or composites engineer but my understanding is that mass production moved to monocoque because of cost savings (labor+time+overhead) above even chassis considerations, which are there in aerodynamics, weight, stiffness, etc. The expensive part of monocoque construction is developing molds, hence why virtually every modern carbon MTB begins with aluminum or lugged mules.

In my limited view the real modern benefit of returning to lugged construction is where additive comes into play, allowing mfgs to build strong, light, custom geo frames. Additive is also incredibly time consuming and currently niche vs monocoque scalability overseas (read expensive), and the price reflects, re: Atherton.
  • 2 1
 @jddallager: Because its slow, heavy and expensive.
  • 4 0
 @jddallager: im pretty sure they did back in 1994-1996 it was a bit of a mixed bag success wise
  • 1 0
 @millsr4: tell colnago that those italian craftsmen must be on 3000 euros an hour i just looked at buying on it was a choice between a private plate for the ferrari or a c64
  • 2 0
 @lehott: do people even know who xzibit is these days? It’s like knowing Ciscos thong song (still one of my favs)
  • 2 1
 @brighterlights: They are missing a big opportunity here. Think a lot of us would love an Atherton Frameset for those tasty looking lugs
  • 1 0
 @cuban-b: Prolly not...and that makes me sad. That show was addictively entertaining...with some highly suspect "engineering".
  • 1 0
 @ReformedRoadie: X to the Z.
X gonna give it to ya! Oh wait, that was DMX.
  • 1 0
 @jddallager: artheton does and funny enough they are dw6 as well
  • 1 0
 You can not be serius !? Ugly ! and will be probably overpriced :-)
  • 1 0
 @jddallager: look at Atherton bikes. in house 3D printed Titanium lugs and stock carbon tubing allow for infinite custom sizing and geometry combinations across their line of bikes
  • 2 0
 @ECT: this is literally the first place I've seen anyone in the bike industry say they WANTED bonded lugs on a carbon frame. It's the oldest and original version of carbon bike construction (from the 80s), and it didn't work that great. We went away from bonded lug construction because the lugs liked to separate, and it's heavier. This is one of those comment threads that leaves bike designers going "WTF?? they want WHAT???"
  • 41 1
 I'm not a carbon guy but I admit that lugged raw composite with raw metal as alloy or titanium makes it fckin sexy*

*fishnet stockings effect probably Smile
  • 28 2
 Reminds me of the GT lobo, and GTLTS thermal, plastic bikes
  • 3 0
 Had the sts DH myself, love the look..
  • 1 0
 I thought exactly the same at first sight. with updated component and hopefully better quality and lifetime it should be very nice
  • 27 2
 I lugged in just to comment on this article.
  • 8 4
 I lugged out loud. Here, have my ipvot.
  • 1 0
 @mi-bike: Top VI Carry-ons
  • 21 2
 Seems fitting that Pivot added a few extra pivots to the design..
  • 5 1
 could prove pivotal
  • 2 0
 @baca262: or perpetual bliss..
  • 1 0
 Would be a shame to see them pivot away from this new design.
  • 10 3
 Wow!

The Atherton version of DW 6 has a Horst pivot allowing for active braking, this appears to have a new version of DW 6 with a 1 piece rear triangle.

Is it a true 6 bar or a 6 link- Can’t wait to see more pics!

And yea it’s gorgeous and I want it just as it is!
  • 10 0
 It's like a modern Giant CADEX.
  • 9 0
 Which were released only relatively recently, and not about three decades ago, 'cause that would mean those of us who know what you are talking about would be really old... and we're not. Ooooh no....
  • 4 0
 I still ride my Cadex but the 30 year old glue is starting to make me question that.
  • 2 0
 Ahem vitus
  • 5 0
 Talking about bikes constructed with lugs. This Miyata Century, with 18K gold plated lugs from year 1990.
www.thespoken.cc/miyata-century

I am sorry to say that it did not hold up very well, it cracked everywhere around the lugs.
  • 2 0
 the very first carbon production bike was a Trek road bike with carbon tubes and aluminum lugs.
  • 1 0
 I still have my ‘92 Miyata lugged Ti bike! Heaviest titanium hardtail you’ll probably ever find! I thought it was the shit back in the day! You know- Greg “Hairball” Herbold cool!
  • 6 0
 How do they tension the short chain? If either the bb or the idler is eccentric or otherwise adjustable, doesn't that mess with numbers people are really finicky about (chainstay length, bb height, anti-squat etc)?
  • 6 1
 As I understand it, a tensioner isn’t necessary as both the idler and the chainring are fixed to the front triangle. They never change position relative to one another.
  • 3 0
 high precision sprockets that get changed out as soon as soon as the chain gets too slack. If you swap chain often and run steel sprockets you probably could run the same sprockets for 2yrs...
  • 2 0
 @housem8d: seems like for this purpose you could run 1/8” track chains (and similarly wide sprockets)
  • 2 0
 Thanks for your responses. Yeah the relative positions will probably remain the same as long as the connected sprocket changes with the same number of teeth as the chainring does. Not proportional indeed, so you can actually play with the chainring size as long as the sprocket changes along. Still, it would be convenient to be able to detension the setup as I've never managed to install a chain immediately under tension. But yeah, to compensate for (acceptable) chain wear you'll probably only need about 2mm or so which is not going to have a massive effect on the anti squat etc. But yeah, if you need to be able to detension it anyway, it does actually give room to play with (improve or mess up) these numbers. For people who agonize over that kind of stuff, it could be a cool option to play with. That said, a floating brake arm back in the days did allow people to play with brake squat/jack too but it has gone out of fashion.
  • 3 0
 Burnished alloy lugs and exposed carbon weave looks 100% sexier than Atherton bikes, I've always loved the look of GT STS bikes and would love to see it relaunched with modern geometry but more durable this time around, I think the classic Horst link four bar design would still hold it own today especially with the advances in rear shock tech.
  • 6 0
 And a new saint crank set
  • 2 1
 Prob hope cranks with decals.
  • 1 0
 This design remind me the original three axis gearbox from Effigear on the Cavalerie Anakin V2. Approximately the same dimensions than the design proposed by DW. It's weird, especially when think about the10 years of existence of this gearbox btw
  • 1 0
 would love to see some modern high output shaft gear boxes start to show up on more modern Dh bikes
  • 2 0
 Maybe this is why Levy has been MIA. After the factory tour and his ingenious design approach with the Grim Donut, Pivot saw his talent for disruptive innovation and he has been locked away helping develop this bike.
  • 2 0
 Anyone remember Chris Cocalis' (Pivot Founder) last bike company Titus? He was doing Carbon tubed, Ti and Aluminum lugged frames 20 years ago. Those frames were stunning, works of art. The original "Switchblade" was a Titus.
  • 1 0
 Weren't these tried back in the 90's and 2000's and most frames with these aluminum lugs either failed due to galvanic corrosion with the carbon material or the glue from the lugs just don't work to secure the carbon tubes? I guess it's OK for prototyping but Pivot would either have a short warranty period or keep replacing frames if they actually put these lugged frame into production for sale to the masses.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer I spotted a few new Trek Slashes that look like a complete redesign being ridden by some folks from Trek in a tiny town in Michigan. I grabbed a picture after talking to them. Is this newsworthy, or is that old news for reviewers like yourself?
  • 1 0
 Wait, I'm a fan of high pivot, but the whole point of DW is vertical wheel path. So they're using a suspension design purposefully made for vertical wheel travel and overcomplicating it to provide rearward wheel travel? Just go to a simpler design if you want HP/VHP.
  • 8 4
 looks like a Atherton frame
  • 2 1
 Is it a coincidence that Bernard has just bought a house in Machynlleth, same place as Atherton hq?
  • 1 0
 Yeah Pivot should offer some of these lugged bikes for sale for the few guys that could afford them even if it was like a limited edition thing. They just look like some sort of Imperial battle cruiser or something.
  • 1 0
 But for warranties...
  • 1 1
 I dont plan on buying a new DH bike BUT if pivot was to actually make the bike look like this, id actually buy it.
The thing looks fantastic... bike manfs, this is how you make a modern MTB look sick.

(i know it wont happen, Pivot are to stuck in their ways)
  • 1 0
 Cool inside look at the Pivot R&D department and how they are building some of these new bikes-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT5_B4H43xc&t=42s
  • 2 0
 Good to see A M making lugs an option. We now need Kevlar flairs and paisley Cordura.
  • 4 5
 Glad to see BK on a better bike to compete against the other big names. The stock Phoenix is a great bike but is probably holding him back compared to what other top riders have available racing at the top of the WC. Go get 'em BK!
  • 12 3
 Think the Conti tires have boosted their athletes’ game more than the suspension design
  • 2 0
 BK''s sponsor loyalty paying off, signing with conti was risky
  • 1 0
 @housem8d: how was that risky? do you think they didn't test the tire before?
  • 1 4
 @bashhard: before they came out with their new line of tires they had sub-par stuff compared to Maxxis. But the car tires and road tires were excellent at this time so it was a safe bet
  • 2 0
 Bad ass and I reckon made in america (proto anyway) regardless, Pivot is awesome.
  • 1 0
 Jack shaft at the chainstay pivot means no chain growth, very interesting!

I’d love to see this design with a pinion gear box!!
  • 4 0
 Effigear and no extra chain!
  • 1 0
 Is there any reason not to use a belt instead of a chain for the shorter chain segment (chainring to idler i guess?)
  • 1 0
 mounting a belt with no built-in tensioner is not a good idea.
  • 1 0
 Belts are cool but the last thing you need is your belt and sprocket clogging up with mud or worse gravel. Not sure it's the best choice for DH, I could be wrong though.
  • 1 0
 @housem8d: I installed a LOT of synchronous belts on high powered fans for buildings without tensioners. The belt drive on the Buell I used to own didn't have a tensioner.
  • 1 0
 @JSTootell: yeah my experience is limited to gates CDX
  • 1 0
 @housem8d: Whys that? Just hard to install the belt while maintaining correct tension? Wouldn't it be the same for a chain?
  • 1 0
 Availability of the right length chain/belt is probably a big reason.
  • 1 1
 Why another high pivot?! I would like to see some outside the box thinking not every brand going to 6bar high pivots. Maybe it’s just me tho….
  • 1 0
 Here for the arm chair engineer comments! And of course anything Bernard and Chris are doing. Let it eat boyz!
  • 1 0
 m.pinkbike.com/photo/16794042
I like my 2 chains .. going good after 6 years now
  • 1 0
 Looks like an Atherton and BK has been spending a lot of time at Dyfi recently.....
  • 2 1
 Would you look at that, reminds me of 1995... trek 8700 and GT STS Lobo have entered the chat...
  • 1 0
 Suspicious crop on that first photo...someone wanted those dawgs in the frame
  • 1 0
 Look behind far left ...looks like Ronald McDonald is back!! Need an ad going thru the drive thru on the dh grabn a bag! FAST FOOD
  • 2 0
 New saint cranks too! hopefully still 24mm bb and direct mount chainrings
  • 2 0
 No mention of the new Shimano saint cranks?
  • 2 0
 This just fits the “Pivot” name better.
  • 1 0
 Everyone suddenly very interested in the front end construction of this frame…
  • 1 0
 Who needs China with this design....
  • 2 0
 Shaft, Jack Shaft.
  • 1 0
 love it , its like the GT lobo in construction.
  • 1 0
 Reminds me of a Dark Owl.
  • 1 0
 Lest we forget the NR from Cycle's Balfa.
  • 2 1
 High-Pivots are so hot right now
  • 2 0
 The Pivot 2 chainz
  • 2 1
 I love my Pivot. It just works really well.
  • 2 0
 Phoenix Rising?
  • 2 0
 Tow ball 2 Chainz
  • 1 0
 Anyone know some black market organ dealers? I have a kidney for sale.
  • 2 1
 make mine a double, chain that is
  • 4 3
 BMW rip off and the pivot is STILL too low....
  • 4 0
 BMW ? Make bike i though they just did cars that you paid a subscription fee to indicate and keep cool
  • 3 5
 @Compositepro:


Brooklyn Machine Works (BMW) is a renowned bicycle manufacturer based in Brooklyn, New York. It was founded in 1996 by Joe and Ross Ellis, who initially started the company as a small custom machine shop. The Ellis brothers were passionate about cycling and began building custom frames for BMX and mountain bikes.

BMW gained recognition in the early 2000s when it introduced its first signature product, the Gangsta track bike. The Gangsta track bike became popular among urban cyclists and bike messengers due to its durable construction and distinctive design. It featured a unique frame design and robust components, making it suitable for the demands of urban riding.

Over the years, BMW expanded its product range to include other types of bicycles, including mountain bikes and dirt jumpers. They continued to focus on producing high-quality, durable bikes that could withstand the rigors of urban riding and extreme conditions.

The brand gained further prominence in the cycling community through collaborations with well-known riders and athletes. BMW bikes were featured in various competitions, and the company garnered a reputation for its commitment to performance and craftsmanship.

BMW's commitment to handcrafted bicycles and attention to detail made its products highly sought after. Each bike was meticulously designed and fabricated, often requiring several hours of skilled labor to complete. This dedication to quality, combined with the company's Brooklyn roots, helped BMW establish a strong and loyal customer base.

While BMW faced challenges and underwent changes throughout its history, it maintained its focus on producing exceptional bicycles. The company's bikes are known for their ruggedness, durability, and unique aesthetics, reflecting the spirit of their Brooklyn origins.

Please note that the above information reflects the historical context up until September 2021, and there may have been developments or changes in the company since then.
  • 2 1
 Barney got some long toes
  • 2 0
 Is it mullet?
  • 1 0
 Spotted 5 months ago in Queenstown. Catch up!
  • 1 0
 Pure filth!
  • 1 0
 Need One !
  • 1 1
 That looks horrible but in the best possible way. I love it.
  • 1 0
 Yes please.
  • 4 4
 Damn only 4 months behind vital lol
  • 1 0
 Seb Stott!
  • 1 1
 Does this mean custom geo for customers?
  • 1 2
 Has the same sort of vibe as the Atherton frame...i can only imagine how pricy this is?!
  • 1 0
 Luggin good!
  • 1 1
 full review tomorrow
  • 4 0
 Man, I wish. I’d love to get some laps in on this thing.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: @pivotcycles make an unpaid interns dreams come







Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.052901
Mobile Version of Website