Spotted: Pole eMTB Prototype Gets Hucked to Flat

Feb 12, 2021
by Daniel Sapp  

In an evening scroll through Instagram, we see that Pole's founder, Leo Kokkonen, is doing some huck to flat testing on what appears to be an eMTB. According to his post, their new shop floor feels solid.

It's hard to tell from the clip but it looks like the bike uses a different suspension design and elevated chainstays. Check out the video below and let the rumors and speculation fly.

400 [Failed to load instagram embed]https://instagr.am/p/CLKdHJ9hpMZ&maxwidth=1000
bigquotesFeels solid.Leo Kokkonen

We reached out to Leo for some more information as to what we going on here and he responded with the following intriguing news about the future of his Finnish brand:

bigquotesThe video's story is that our new production building is ready, and we have used the space for riding the prototype last few weeks because it is midwinter here. We were moving things with a forklift, and we got an idea that we should make at least a sender because soon the floor space is not usable anymore for riding. We just put two standard warehouse shelf railings through some pallets and off we went.

The bike is one of the prototypes we produced. We experiment with different motors and batteries and see what suits best our concept. We have been developing this bike for a while now, and we have already finalized the geometry and suspension layout. Now the development is more about the motor and battery, and we are waiting for better riding conditions to complete testing. We have a new geometry concept that will be something different in the industry again. Not so big thing as the Evolink was back in 2016 but indeed a move forward and something that has not been discussed earlier. The initial thoughts about this concept are that the bike accelerates very quickly and it is nimble considering that its and long geo, long-travel e-bike. We think that kinematics and geo are spot-on for this bike.

Currently, we are updating our lineup, and there will be more news from Pole next month. Stamina and Evolink are being updated. E-bike is still under development, and we'll update that later on. We can open the design process a bit more after deciding what motor and battery concept will continue.
Leo Kokkonen

Our resident huck to flat expert, Jason Lucas, has already volunteered to put the machine through its paces saying, "let me know when and where it needs to be hucked."

Leo also fired over a picture of Pole's new production facility:

The building on the right, will house manufacturing, surface treatment, and offices, and the one on the left will be stock and bike assembly.



192 Comments

  • 357 5
 Wow! This is breaking news
  • 123 5
 With the snappy performance of Pole bicycles, add a motor and they should really get cracking!
  • 31 3
 Busted riding a new pole
  • 27 3
 I wonder if it will be a flexible release or more of a blow up
  • 19 4
 Its going to crush the e-bike market!
  • 17 1
 I bet that pb would give this a crack in the emtb to flat challenge
  • 18 0
 Is this a new e bike they’re going to bring into the fold?
  • 13 4
 @rawmouth: isn't anyone riding a pole supposed to wear a g-string ??
  • 14 0
 come on guys, give pole a break
  • 1 0
 That's no Huck to flat test! You need a mini mate, speak to @mikelevy Wink
  • 2 0
 @landscapeben: technically Pinkbike called it a huck to flat, Pole didnt
  • 1 0
 @Tobsa: well I guess that's true... I hang my head in shame lol
  • 203 2
 The pre-production prototype was accidentally shipped with a production rear end.
  • 4 1
 excellent work sir
  • 138 54
 Just when I thought pole couldn’t be any more un-likable. They go make an e-bike
  • 235 40
 ... and totally redeem themselves!
  • 52 5
 @cuban-b: how in the world can people be downvoting a dumb and dumber line?!?!! well done.
  • 31 19
 E bikes are sick...
  • 16 30
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Feb 11, 2021 at 21:43) (Below Threshold)
 @SEA5ONS: Not when you're still on a slow bike and get passed by an old guy on one.
  • 25 16
 @SEA5ONS: yeah, sick like corona sick
  • 11 30
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Feb 11, 2021 at 22:52) (Below Threshold)
 @kyytaM: More like e bikes are the vaccine to being stuck on a slow bike.
  • 21 21
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Slow, lazy, rider.
  • 29 23
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Where you went wrong is by thinking that bikes are slow. They are not. People are slow. So yeah e-bikes are for slow and weak people (or people over the age of 50).
  • 12 32
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Feb 12, 2021 at 3:22) (Below Threshold)
 @BenTheSwabian: I'm referring to climbing speed, primarily. I am an overall slow rider but I do at least twice as many laps on my e bike as a fit rider on a slow bike.

@jclnv: What's lazy about doing twice as many laps? Work smarter, not harder.
  • 8 9
 @BenTheSwabian: I savor your bag full of prejudice! I take it you are strong and fast and under 50, right? At least you think you are strong and fast...
  • 18 8
 @DoubleCrownAddict: this is an honest question. I hear ebikers say “but I ride twice as much as the guys pedaling” quite often. I get it, the bike motor adds a lot so you have the energy to do a second lap.
But now the ride is twice as long as your friend’s ride, right? Well, if you have that much more time to ride, why not train harder and get fitter without the motor?
  • 17 5
 @BenTheSwabian: I am over 50 and e-bikes are not for me!
  • 8 10
 @like2pedal: I'm working on it... while riding an e bike. Once you get used to climbing on an e bike, for me at least, there's no going back. Plus I'm old and injured, there is a limit to my fitness.
  • 8 24
flag Danzzz88 (Feb 12, 2021 at 6:44) (Below Threshold)
 E-bike are faster? Faster how?... They have a max speed limit in the uk of 15mph until the motor cuts out... They output a measily 350 watts... granted that is like doubling a persons power if they were pedalling at a normal effort, but here's the caveat, an e bike doesn't output the full 350 watts during low effort riding about, and if you start pedalling hard and fast when it does output 350w your legs will be outputting over 1000w themselves and for some more gifted people 2000w....not exactly doubling your power is it? So let's say the motor stayed on and didn't cut out then yea e bikes would be faster...but they do cut out, and in the UK 15mph is f*cking slow, I can get up to that in a few seconds and maintain that on a normal bike after which point on an e bike the motor has cut out and I'm actually now left trying to accelerate more dead weight. So no E bikes are not faster...they are faster or easier for very weak people, but for people with good strength they are no faster than any normal bike.
  • 10 9
 @like2pedal: you get to do more of the fun stuff in the same time period, riding downhill as many times as possible, usually 2 to 3 times more downhill runs.
I for one have no interest in riding a bike for fitness. Never had, never will. If there is an uplift truck, a chairlift or an ebike, I will be on it.
  • 10 6
 @Danzzz88: I've yet to see anyone on a pedal bike go faster up a steep climb. In fact they are usually pushing their bikes up then having a rest at the top whilst the ebike rider is getting another run in.
So yes an ebike is faster.
  • 8 9
 @mcozzy: but going up a climb isn't fast on either bike...going downhill at 25/30mph is fast..that's like saying a Jeep with a winch is faster than a Ferrari because it can get up a 50 degree slope and a Ferrari can't.. yea E bikes make pedalling up hill easier and that is literally the only point for most people with restricted e bike.. but going up hill isn't fun for most people, for tgose that do find it fun usually enjoy the 'challenge' that e bikes don't offer. So to sum up, e bikes make it easier going up hill.
  • 7 4
 @Danzzz88: Well speed is defined as mile per hour. In an hour on an ebike I will have covered more miles than those on a pedal bike, due to maintaining speed uphill & not needing a break. So I would still maintain that an ebike is faster.
  • 12 2
 @BenTheSwabian: There are lots of men and women over 50 here in the Pacific North West who happily pedal their bikes and will most likely school you in everything from XC to enduro. They are riding while you try to be funny behind your keyboard. Ignorant comment.
  • 14 6
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I don’t find descending on a 50lb bike smart. Quality, not quantity.
  • 12 6
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Yeah but don't be coming here talking a bunch of crap on regular bikes calling them slow and being on your high horse of a fricken ebike and then follow it up with, "I'm old and injured bla bla" ride the regular bike and heal yourself man, flaunting passing everyone on your ebike is just pathetic and to talk down on regular mountain bikes is certain low i cant understand. like go ride your ebike man, we get it its fun, so are other electric toys to ride, but this is a mountain bike forum so shape up.
  • 8 5
 @gorideyourbikeman: watch out everyone!! Nobody mess with this guy, right here ^
  • 7 12
flag Danzzz88 (Feb 12, 2021 at 8:22) (Below Threshold)
 Ok lets state some facts.. Saying E mtb's are faster overall is inaccurate.
1. They are faster uphill over a prolonged period as the rider can go faster uphill for longer.

They are not faster on flat as the motor cuts out at 15mph...past 15mph you having to pedal more dead weight.

Downhill they are the same or slower as you are already going faster than 15mph in most sections, the added weight becomes a negative to cornering agility... If E mtb's were faster downhill then no one would be buying downhill bikes anymore and buying Kenevos instead.

If we argue the point E mtbs are 'faster' than normal bikes due to it having a motor then we can also argue that the cheapo 1000w chinese bicycle is faster than a Kenevo or £8k Santa Cruz Heckler so why not just buy that instead?

In the UK all places worth riding downhill have an uplift, you drive to the top or you have a small ride uphill for say 20mins and have 1hr 30mins of downhill..in the USA it's different, yea if you have to slog it up a hill for 2 hours to ride a downhill then yea an E bike makes sense....

If you enjoy riding uphill then surely it's because you enjoy the challenge, there is nothing different about riding uphill than down except you are going much slower, not doing any jumps etc and it is harder... There is nothing fun about any of those, only if you enjoy the fact it is harder and a challenge in which case you wouldn't want an E bike.

Bare in mind e bikes don't offer full wattage assistance when just casually cruising up a hill, they may offer 150 watts of assistance in this case or thereabouts.... This amount of assistance can easily be outdone by a rider who is strong and fit vs one who isn't... The guy who squats 60kg and has an E bike is not better iff than the guy that squats 140kg or more....but the thing is the kind of guy that squats 140kg or more wouldn't buy an e bike....the kind if guy like Simon Cowell buys an E bike.
  • 7 8
 @Danzzz88: It doesnt sound like you have ever ridden a decent modern ebike. Regardless, enjoy your pedal bike & I will enjoy my ebike (whilst doing more runs :-) )
  • 7 8
 @mcozzy: doing more runs where? If I go to Revolution bike park I'll be up that hill faster in the landrover, less tired and faster down on a downhill bike....as I say, anywhere worth riding downhill in the UK has regular uplifts, anyway else usually has a shirt ride to the top and over an hour down...after an hours coasting downhill I'm sure my legs will have recovered enough to bike back to the top for 20mins... If you are going to argue we will be there all day for say 8hrs your battery will be dead, then lets see you do more runs faster. I can take a regular bicyce on a road trip in the middle of nowhere and ride up and downhill all day every day...you can't do that with e bike with no charging socket in the Alps can you?

The only place you will be doing more runs is if you are going to shitty places where there is more uphill than down...yea if you have to bike 10mins up and only get 5mins down that's shit and an e bike would be better and you woukd get more runs in, but where do you know like that, that doesn't have an uplift?

If we are talking up and down for prolonged periods then that's basically XC riding isn't it.

As the guy above says it's not that we have a problem with e bikes, it's the people that ride them acting like thet are superior..it's bollocks. I have seen guys on road bikes dripping with Lycra so weak and unfit that I can pedal right past them in jeans and a backpack on with dh casing tyres and 180mm of travel. E bikes are only going to make you weaker so yea for people that own them when they get back on a normal bike they find it even more difficult than they did before, but instead of thinking I have got weaker they think E bikes are much faster... But no it's not that the e bike is much faster than the regular bike, it's that you haven't challenged your body in so long that you have gotten weaker so the difference is more profound.
  • 6 15
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Feb 12, 2021 at 8:50) (Below Threshold)
 @gorideyourbikeman: I'll probably continue to call them slow bikes, especially as long as I see comments in e bike articles calling e bikes mopeds, or other smart ass comments about them or the people who ride them. I'm not saying slow bikes can't be fun or enjoyed, but they are slow on the climbs.
  • 12 5
 @DoubleCrownAddict: what an ignorant decision on your part.
  • 6 4
 @cuban-b: yeah watch it man. or else. Take me seriously. trust me. you'll want to. or else.
  • 7 11
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Feb 12, 2021 at 9:06) (Below Threshold)
 @Danzzz88: You don't even understand the basic facts about e bikes, and if had ever climbed on one in turbo mode you wouldn't be saying such ridiculous things.

www.bosch-ebike.com/us/everything-about-the-ebike/stories/three-class-ebike-system/#:~:text=Class%201%3A%20eBikes%20that%20are,assisted%20speed%20of%2028%20mph.

Class 1 e bikes cut out at 20 mph, not 15. In turbo mode they are 3-4 times as fast as a slow bike on a climb, if not faster. When I pass somebody hiking it feels about 10x faster, honestly. On the flats they are also significantly faster. On any downhill that has significant pedaling sections they are also faster overall. There are defiantly some sections on some trails where regular bikes are faster, but not many.

I only call them slow bikes on the internet, and I also acknowledge people and say hi when I pass them.
  • 10 3
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Dude you have a MASSIVE hard on for ebikes. its all good. go tell someone on the trail riding a"slow" bike all about it.
  • 2 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: just so you know us in the UK have a 15mph limit.
  • 12 3
 @Danzzz88: Yeah dude, they’re fitting motors on there to slow the bikes down...

Look, your numbers are way out for start. A TDF Pro rider puts out about 300-350 w/h when racing a regular stage. A sprinter will hit around 2000w during a short, sprint effort. The key word there is “sprint”.
Olympic track cyclist Chris Hoy would hit around 2300/2400w. During a single sprint. A fairly brief one. And at which point, he’s done for the day.

You’re suggesting that regular people can sprint like that for several hours, on and off..? Like interval training? Because that would have to be the case for your argument to stack up.

You said a Ebike provides “a MEASLY 350w of power” “doubling a normal persons power at normal effort”. It’s not. 350w per hour is about what a Pro Roadie (not a normal person by a long shot) puts out when riding along during a regular stage.
And it’s not a measly amount either, particularly when it’s a continuous addition to whatever the rider is putting out (let’s say 250W on the flat). The motor can therefore perhaps double the wattage an average rider is putting out per hour.
And so for regular XC or trail riding, with several hours of singletrack up and downhill (I don’t just mean riding up the fire road alongside Hamsterly DH track / Rev’s or wherever) and several thousand feet of climbing/descending, an e-bike will smoke a regular bike for the same rider. How can it not?

Downhill? Proper downhill? Yeah sure, maybe slower. Maybe not. Probably (as ever) depends on the rider & track. Some EBikes seem pretty rapid, because the increased weight is planted, centralized and does some nice things for the sprung/unsprung mass on the suspension. But sure, a dedicated DH bike is a thing of beauty. They don’t generally climb very well though...

You mentioned about being able to ride up past the 15.5mph cutoff. So can most people, once the trail points downwards. But on rolling terrain, your average speed is going to be way lower. For example, In 2018 at the Mont Sainte Ann WC XC event, the average speed of the competitors was just under 18 kmh (12mph)... soooo, unless you ride faster then the WC XC field (while they’re racing..!), you’re going to be slower over the course of a ride. And at anything under that cutoff, you’re working proportionally harder and for longer, so you will also tire quicker.
And as to riding in “shitty places” that have more climbing vs descending... ever heard of ‘riding in a loop?’ It’s a profound concept; you finish where you started from. Several riders have been known to try it over the years. And you tend to climb pretty much the same height that you descend on these so-called “loops”...!

I don’t own an Ebike but I have ridden them in a few different places/terrain. And I found it to be much quicker then a regular trail bike ride (so several thousand feet of climbing & descents over a few hours) My $0.02
  • 5 4
 @gorideyourbikeman: Go look at this dude's profile, he's a total f*cking boomer nut job, I wouldn't bother arguing with him.
  • 4 9
flag Danzzz88 (Feb 12, 2021 at 9:21) (Below Threshold)
 @DoubleCrownAddict: faster on flat how? The only thing slow here is 'you' not the bike. I can pedal to 30mph on flat and maintain above 20mph on a normal mtb...why would I want the motor to cut out at even 20mph and have more dead weight to accelerate and increase rolling resistance on flat, I guarantee past 20mph I'll be getting well ahead of you on flat or road after your motor has cut out... Even if it's only 21mph it's going to be harder for you than me. Road cyclists can cruise at 30mph and hit around 40mph on flat during a sprint. So yea lets refine the argument, E bikes are faster when maintaining low speeds and going up hills. Peak velocitys are the same or faster on a normal bike.
  • 6 5
 @rickybobby18: their hatred for e machines overshadow their passion for boomer comedic references, obviously.
  • 2 6
flag Danzzz88 (Feb 12, 2021 at 9:33) (Below Threshold)
 @Corinthian: I agree with a lot if what you said, but regarding the loop thing, returning to the same elevation doesn't neccessarily mean the same amount of riding in both directions. If I climb up at an average gradient of 35 degrees for 10 mins but then descend at an average gradient of -5 degress, I'm still going downhill, I'm still able to hit ridiculously fast speeds but I will be riding down for much further than I'm riding up.
  • 9 5
 @cuban-b: no it's we prefer nkrmal bicycles becayse that is exactly what they are 'bicycles', not some hybrid cross between a moped and a bicycle. If I wanted to ride motor powered two wheel vehicles all the time I'd buy a motorbike or motocross bike. The whole point of a bicycle is it's a human powered vehicle.... You think it makes loads of sense because thry have become mainstream now...but let's hypothetically say that rowers that practice rowing in the lake or whereever go an fit a tiny 50/100cc outboard motor on their rowing boat...then they go to the guy on the regular rowing boat you boat is so slow and shit....meanwhile in the background some dude is blasting oast on his speed boat. Do you see how retarded that whole idea appears to be and yet tell me what makes bicyckes exempt from thus but rowing boats not?
  • 5 1
 @Danzzz88: That's a great reference...
  • 6 1
 @Danzzz88: lighten up - i was just being self deprecating. pinkbike = serious bizness

i dont even own an e bike. the amount of mental anguish expressing hate for a toy you people put yourselves thru is mind boggling.
  • 4 0
 @Danzzz88: I squat over 200kg and I'm considering an e-bike for that exact reason, because i'm a fat powerlifter with shit cardio lol
  • 3 6
 @DoubleCrownAddict: difference is you're not doing the laps the bike is. I mean I can do twenty laps on a dirt bike and probably have more fun too but that's not the point. Point is I ride a bike to push myself to the limit I didn't buy my bike to cut corners where I think I'm weak.
  • 4 0
 @mhoshal: but i ride a bike to stroll through nature in a relaxed state... Am i doing it wrong?
  • 2 4
 @ridingofthebikes: so if you ride a bike for that what do you need an E bike for, take it nice and easy on a normal bike and take the view all in...rofl XD
  • 3 0
 @Danzzz88: I........do? i dont own a ebike lol. Thunderbolt A50 for this guy.
  • 2 0
 @Corinthian: @Corinthian: I don't think it is very likely that casual people, choosing e-bikes because they reduce the workload, can put out 250w on the flats for very long. lets say its 160w.

I'm sure you are also aware that it's watts per kilo that really count (I am very aware...as I can put out healthy watts but am not "blessed" with a light body, so as soon as the incline starts....)

say you weigh 250 lbs (ebike,gear,yourself) and you can do 160+340 = 500 watts that is 4.4 watts/kilo
for as long as the battery lasts.

alternately lets say you weigh 185 (bike, gear, yourself) and you can do 285 watts that is 3.4 watts/kilo
for as long as you can.

the difference isn't so great, but it is substantial, 1 watt/3.4 watts = 29% power advantage to ebike

and what happens when the battery dies or you bonk?

250lb:160watts with no battery = 1.4 watts/kilo
185lb: 200watts and really hungry = 2.4 watts/kilo

1 watt/1.4 watts = 71% power advantage to pedal power

I do way more trail riding than DH laps. There is no way I am risking having to pedal a hulking dead ebike up the last 1,000 foot climb, because that would take eternity.

I am not concerned with what bike someone chooses
  • 3 0
 @mcozzy: I definitely feel you. I only ride regular bikes but the fitness is just a bonus, I'm mainly there for descents. If I had an ebike I'd be riding it all the time. Funny how these comments always get down voted. Some people take their hill climbing too seriously.
  • 3 5
 @DylanH93: but the question is where are you riding and how short are the descents for you to actually gain more runs with an e bike. Llandegla is a trail centre in the UK, you bike up for like 20mins, then descend for over an hour..most people do one run, if you wanted to do two runs you could on a normal bike, just bike back to the top again for 20mins casually and do a second run. Even if the e biker gets up the hill twice as fast he has only done 10mins less uphill per run over the space of 2 and a half hours give or take, and the same amount of time downhill. He would have to do over 6 runs to gain one extra run in over a normal bike...like 9 hours of riding...by which point he is not bored or just tired in general his battery will be flat.... For anyone on a normal bike if you are fit and healthy descending doesn't take loads out of your legs, it takes it out of your forearms (armpump etc) after 1 hour descending your legs easily have easily recovered enough to bike back up for 20 mins.

In the situation where the runs are much shorter and you are up and down every 15mins in the uk at least, those are called bike parks and you get a lift to the top, that is just as fast and takes even less energy than an e bike.

I'm struggling to find a particular instance in the uk where the trails are just so that you actually get more runs out of an e bike and there is no lift access.
  • 3 1
 @Danzzz88: that's some heavy analysis. I'm more just interested in getting up hills slightly faster but then not taking breaks and being ready to rip downhill. I'm in Northern California so it's lots of huge rides up then descending for a couple to 15min down awesome trails. My neighbor has been riding forever and always hated on ebikes. Then he recently got one and tells me just how amazing it is lol. I'm young and don't exactly have the budget for an ebike but definitely want one in the future. I don't mind hills, they can even be a fun challenge, but if I could just zip up the hills and focus more time on descents then I'm totally down.
  • 6 5
 @Danzzz88: "I can pedal to 30mph on flat and maintain above 20mph on a normal mtb."

Lol, if that was the case you would be a pro cyclist and not a pinkbike e bike troll.

I wasn't aware that e bikes were slower in the UK than they are in the states. Regardless, e bikes are still much faster overall because of the time they make up on the climbs. It's at least 2 to 1 and equals much more distance and fun overall. But fun is subjective, maybe you enjoy climbing at a snails pace.

It's obvious that e bikes are creating alot of anxiety with people who spent alot of money on slow bikes, just like 29" wheels when they emerged and made the 26 for life crowd anxious. Now the 26 for life crowd is on wagon wheeled carbon bikes and feeling anxiety over e bikes. Did you know there is an e bike filter to prevent you from expressing that anxiety publicly?
  • 4 4
 @DoubleCrownAddict: dude, you just tried to use being old and injured as an excuse to why you suck e bikes cocks so deeply. Your profile shows that have multiple comments downvoted into oblivion. Is it possible that your are doing nothing but bumping heads with the very people you pretend to jive with. MTB"ers. Grow up troll.
  • 3 0
 @like2pedal: I too am not remotely concerned with whatever form of bike folks choose to ride. As a pragmatic soul I can happily accept that there are wildly differing opinions when it comes to eBikes; And I don't own one, I'm not a flag waving champion for Ebikes, but nor am I against others buying and riding them.

I do appreciate objective facts in a discussion, and when I'm reading comments above saying that an eBike is generally slower, that normal rider can kick out 350w and repeatedly sprint up to 2000w+, for several hours on end, well that just doesn't sound accurate. So I agree with you; I said an average rider kicks out around 250w/h, perhaps it is indeed lower and nearer 160w (which further supports my initial point with respect to what an extra 350w can do)

And as to what happens when you run out of juice on a regular eBike? Well, you're dead right there, you end up with something heavy and cumbersome, a numb anvil on wheels. You may end up walking. But I mean.... what do you expect if the battery dies? I completely agree; I'd hate to do a long multi hour effort, only to find myself many miles and many feet of elevation away from 'home' and with a 50lb dead weight. But that's a very specific example of draining the battery towards the end of a long ride that you'd surely, as the owner, have thought "well, I'm pushing the range a bit here with this specific ride, might end up walking out....." and then did it anyway. So thats a question planning; I hate bonking towards the end of a ride too, so I take steps to mitigate that. And one of those steps might be to not do a long ride without making sure I have adequate food and water (fuel) to complete the mileage required. To be fair, electronics on MTB's in general are subject to the same sort of battery argument; I've read the same said of AXS, Di2 and so on, but people seem to buy and use that OK I guess?


And to just play devil's advocate - in contrast, what about all the rides that don't have that outcome, the vast majority that finish well, and with charge left in the battery? What about the extra laps in a given time, or the extra trails ridden, or climbs cleared, that might have not otherwise been? Like I said before - I don't own an eBike, but I do have a few other MTB's (hardtails/sus trail, DH etc). The regular bikes I use in different places for different things. The DH bike is great for trips away in CO, the Endorphin is fun at Bentonville's mixed trails for example and a single speed hard tail is excellent in the woods down the road from my house... Horses for courses at the end of the day, and an eBike is, to me at least, just another choice from the plethora of styles and types of bike available on the market.
  • 5 4
 he talks out his ass...he thinks you have to be a pro cyclist to hit 20mph on road average on a bike and 30mph at peak sprint... When I used to run track in the 100m I could hit 26mph on f*cking foot...

He's either fat/old or both so yea I bet to him E bikes are night and day. As for his retarded comment about being jealous cos we spent money on normal bikes, when I built up my Yeti sb165 I could have bought a Heckler or two Haibike e bikes for the same money...and guess what, I didn't, because I don't blood want one...my legs are powerful enough, I want better suspension, a lighter more agile frame and not a big ugly f*ck off downtube. Snobs like him think we are jealous when he goes past on his e bike, I see them as bikes for the disabled... It's like having a hearing aid and going, you're jealous because I have electric ears and can hear more than you...like wtf not everyone wants an e bike man which is why there is f all adverts on the front page of Pinkbike for them...almost all the bikes on the front page of Pinkbike that people drool over are non e bikes.
  • 5 2
 @Danzzz88: cool story, really riveting stuff
  • 3 2
 @like2pedal: you are going faster on the ups so you do more laps although, spend the same amount of time on the bike? I use zwift, with a road bike on a smart trainer for my fitness, I use my E-bike to practice my technique ... practice the same corner over and over, or whatever stretch of track and, then jump on my normal bike for super fun times. horses for courses I guess. Just trying to use my time wisely...
  • 5 2
 @jnroyal: that's ok. I'm 56, love my E-bike and what it offers me. I also love my Rallon and using Zwift with my road bike. Actually, I love riding all bikes. Just because I like doesn't mean you have to.
  • 1 0
 @like2pedal: riding X2 as much could come in many forms... an example that makes me think they make sense is: a short window of time opens up - not really enough for a ride + you can’t be sweating and hot for the following hour as you have to be on a conference call... enter the ebike. Suddenly your 40 minute climb takes 25, your 7 minute decent stays the same... you get home and are not a hot mess for any longer than your 2 minute shower.
  • 1 3
 @JosMaple: hey, just take dirt bike and suddenly that 25 minute ebike climb will take 10 and your 7 minutes descent stays the same...you can ride it X2 for the same time window and you get home are not hot mess...and you can buy dirt bike for less than ebike
  • 4 4
 @Danzzz88: Your infantile projection defines you, and you still haven't disputed the fact that a decent rider on an e bike is doing twice as many laps as on a slow bike.
  • 2 5
 @DoubleCrownAddict: only people upvoting you are other e bikers...you talk shit. You don't do twice as many laps on an e bike end of story. I already explained a typical trail in the uk, 20mins up, 1 hour down...say the e bike take 10 mins to get up so instead of averaging 8mph uphill it's averaging 16mph...1mph faster btw than it's restricted to in the uk... That means you save 10 min per run.... The whole run in total takes 1hour 20mins for the normal bike... So you have to do '9' runs to get 1 extra complete run in. Or basically over 10 hours of riding for the e bike.....your battery is flat welll before then.


Then again I will put forward the rowing boat argument... If a guy fits a tiny 100cc engine to his rowing boat, but still has to row, yet has a restricted top speed that is below a rowers capable sprint speed... Then he goes and laughs at the normal rower and say his boat is shit, meanwhile a full on speed boat goes past. Can you not see how absolutely stupid that whole concept seems....and yet tell me why your bicycle is exempt from the same ridiculousness but the rowing boat isn't? I have not had one person come back with an argument to that one because it's true, it is ridiculous and there is no exemption.
  • 6 2
 @Danzzz88: Go row a boat dude. Your points aren't backed by reality and aren't worth debating.
  • 3 1
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I can’t wait to read his next essay - can we get a TLDR here?
  • 1 3
 @cuban-b: case in point, you have no argument...
  • 1 5
flag Danzzz88 (Feb 13, 2021 at 6:44) (Below Threshold)
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I just gave you a realistic example layed out in laymans terms...and an anology and you say it's not backed by reality. Keep your head in the sand and ride you Powerwheels. When your E bike outputs over 1000 watts and assists you with no restrictions or caps on the speed limit I will agree with you but atm they aren't like that and probably never will be because then they will be classed as motorbikes.
  • 4 1
 @Danzzz88: nobody cares what any one of us thinks so why bother arguing?
  • 4 0
 @BenTheSwabian: I'm not slow or weak,but have bad genetics and I'm only 40, sorry I didn't live up to your expectation s
  • 6 0
 @Danzzz88: damn your boring yawn night night
  • 4 0
 @jclnv: I dunno, I was always a bit of a weight weenie but I've gotta say that these big heavy bikes, with tyres to match, just work in a different way- stuff that can knock my dh bike about gets pretty much brutalised by a decent ebike. It's not all one way travel. Repeat hits, really harsh rock gardens, stuff like that is pretty eye opening.
  • 1 1
 @Northwind: yes more frame mass means more sprung mass resulting in nicer suspension feel. The compromise is agility. This is why Chris Porter used to strap weight to downhill bikes.
  • 3 0
 @like2pedal: because.. Even at that.. Your still going to be more gassed despite fitness than the ebiker getting in three huge laps on the dh and completely being less fatigued than the fit guy.. I see it all the time.. The fitter guys still tapping out earlier, while the e- guys say.. "hey, how bout one more quick lap".
No, I'm not an e-guy
  • 1 5
flag Danzzz88 (Feb 14, 2021 at 15:52) (Below Threshold)
 I'd like to know what kind of trails are these where you get more 'laps' out of an e bike...they sound terribly designed trails... Most trails in the UK are much longer down than up...saving 10mins going uphill that would normally take 20mins over 1 and 1/2 hours of riding per 'lap meams you need to do 9 laps to get 1 extra lap in. 1 hour 20mins aka 80mins x 9 = 12 hours of riding, pretty sure the e bike is flat by then. It's almost like the e bikers are going to one hill in the middle of nowhere going up, bombing down then riding back up to do the same hill again, like going on a slide in the park. Proper trails are not like that and bike park and dh centres have somw form of uplift. Sound like these e bike dudes are going to the local hill and doing 20 second runs up and down it all day, then yea guess an e bike does make sense in that case lmao
  • 2 0
 @Danzzz88: Normal longer DH trails, fireroad climb back up. Not to brag, cause I'm not fast, but I've seen the same riders twice on one of their climbs, if I'm climbing in turbo mode. That's 2 to 1.
  • 5 0
 @Danzzz88: Jesus I'm glad I don't ride your definition of proper trails, 20 min up for 90 mins down! How flat and boring they sound.
The riding spots I regularly visit, examples include fod, Aston hill, rogate, tidworth and windhill bikepark, stoughton, okeford bikepark, 417 flyup would take between 5 to 20 mins to push up for 30 secs to 2 mins of down.
Push up in 8mins or ride up in 2mins, yeah I'm definitely not getting 3 times more DH runs in...
Even bmcc with the uplift, it holds me up going up the hill if I catch it up. Usually though they are still loading up and strapping down though whilst I have got to the top for another run.
Oh and by the way, 2 batteries ..
  • 3 0
 @mcozzy: I was thinking the same thing about his "proper" trails. If they are as flat and boring as he describes, maybe he can actually ride a cyclocross bike on them and actually can go as fast as he claims.
  • 1 4
 Llandegla, Bike park wales, Revolution Bike park... All the most well known and popular trails / bikeparks in the uk, all have longer descent than ascent times, one with the shortest relative descent time is Revolution bike park where I can get a jeep 5 mins to the top.. .never heard of half those trails you mentioned meanwhile.
  • 1 5
flag Danzzz88 (Feb 15, 2021 at 7:27) (Below Threshold)
 Case in f***ing point...

youtu.be/rfSJ0mtBjF8

Eat it...
  • 3 0
 @Danzzz88: So to summarize, ignoring all your ludicrous references to outputting 2000 watts, pedaling at 30mph & boat engines you say that a normal bike is quicker than an ebike as long as its on the back of a trailer at one site in the uk. Ok. Got it.
  • 1 4
 @mcozzy: 1. Boat analogy you think is crazy, yet same logic applies to bikes....

2.Some people can output 2000w, a lot of people can output around 1000w in a sprint...

3. I don't see what is so amazing about hitting 30mph on road? Road bikes can hit well beyond 40 with an average rider during a sprint, recumbent bikes well beyond that...

4.Your logic with the trailer argument is hypocritical...both methods involve using a motor to get you to the top of the hill...that is after all the whole point you buy an e bike isn't...to get to the top fast so you can get down? Shame you don't need an e bike for that and an uplift is quicker ehh? And shame that during longer trails that don't require uplift, the downs are much longer than the ups meaning you would have to do so many laps to get 1 extra whole run in that your battery would be flat.

5. The Youtube video I posted straight up tell it how it is, an unbiased video by an e bike channel and the uplift won. Fact is anywhere with decent trails and downhill parks doesn't need an e bike... If you are going to random trails built by Bob in the middle of nowhere that has 3 hills that you just go round and round in circles that's another matter, ofc e bike will probably get you more laps in then, but who wants to ride trails like that if they have access to proper ones.
  • 1 4
 In fact lets broaden the trails...you gonna go take your E bike to Austria and ride the bike parks there or Whistler and ride up by e bike rather than get the uplift? You gonna get more laps in? Case in point, nowhere 'decent' needs an e bike.
  • 3 1
 @Danzzz88: dude you aren’t convincing anyone of anything. But continue to lose your shit over this because it’s hilariously entertaining. It’s a children’s toy, move on.
  • 2 0
 @Danzzz88: Right im with you now. Ignoring the new & utterly unrelated roadbike & recumbent reference, a normal mountain bike can be faster than an ebike at your preapproved list of trails that have an uplift and any of the numerous sites around the uk & indeed the world that don't have an uplift are not worth riding.

Here is a video of one of my local trails, not my video, but shows clearly the ebike advantage. This is aston hill that rob warner, you may have heard of him, had input in designing one of the tracks there.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwF7iAd7IGI
  • 1 1
 Well you're right, you can't convince people with their head in the sand can you....I mean father Christmas still exists, talking snakes n that....guess some people are just wired in a 'special' way. But the point is those facts stay there on this page for everyone to read, not only the closed minded e bikers responding to me. I have backed up everything I say with valid arguments, stats and videos... The e bikers haven't backed up a single thing....only voiced their 'opinions'. So let the facts speak for themselves.
  • 1 2
 @mcozzy: that's a fair point, but that's like buying an e bike just for the odd few trails that are like that.. I suppose if a trail like that is right on your front door an e bike obviously makes a lot more sense, but if you live an hour away from it and an hour away from Revs most would just rather go to Revs because aside from the uplift it's a faster, better and longer downhill track. This is like a very specific type of trail, most places that put the effort into creating a dh track have an uplift or are so long dh that the uphill part is irrelevant. Truth is most people don't ride trails or bikeparks like that, if they did people would be buying Decoys and Hecklers and not Megatowers, Enduros and Yetis. The proof is in the sales, a decent e bike is not any more expensive than a top of the line enduro, yet most people rather take the higher spec suspension etc etc of the enduro than the mid apec of the e bike and the motor.. that shows that for them better, suspension, brakes, handling etc is a priority of needing a motor.
  • 1 0
 @Danzzz88: Well thats a responsible response Smile Indeed if I do go to revs a few times this year I would take my dh bike, well I wouldnt as I have just sold it, but will certainly stick the kenevo on the trailer as I do if I go to bpw as even with an ebike there its a grim ride to the top.
For me though and pretty much everyone in the south these are the usual type of trails, the terrain allows for 1 minute runs and there are certainly no uplifts, so ebike usage is prevalent in this part of the country.
  • 2 1
 @mcozzy: fair enough we'll call a truce. I personally have never been in a situation or been to a bikepark that required me to need an e bike, Llandegla, BPW, Revs, a week away in Serfaus-fiss, Delamere forest even...and everything else is just basically XC. Only proper bike park / trail I know like that within reasonable distance that has no uplift is Farmer Johns. So I guess it depends where you live, sounds like there is places near you that an e bike is almost a neccessity than an advantage so fair play.
  • 2 0
 @Danzzz88: Wait, 20 minute uphills and hour long downhills? Are you walking?
  • 1 1
 @fullendurbro: some places are like that, you have a fairly steep uphill for a little bit, then a long downhill witha few short uphill bits along the way...they are normally called trail centres over here as opposed to bike parks.
  • 1 1
 @Danzzz88: lol at you thinking people read what you’re writing
  • 1 2
 @cuban-b: considering how little interest in what I wrote you seem to be 'trying to convey', you are reading it so I guess so are others. Who cares what you think anyway lol.. to me you are one rat I don't know out of 7 billion people..You're a nobody as far as I'm concerned lmao
  • 1 1
 @Danzzz88: same same
  • 1 2
 @cuban-b: read it then? XD XD XD
  • 1 2
 @Danzzz88: the sad part is you actually think people care what u say hahahaha so who’s the rat?
  • 2 0
 Uhhh it's called the entire north shore and Pacific northwest...
  • 2 0
 @Danzzz88: pick your method of moving and be a dick about it
  • 62 2
 If that's a HUCK to flat by their standards, its no wonder PB broke their frame...
  • 7 0
 Yup, doesn't even look like it bottomed out the shock.
  • 21 0
 Pole didn't call it a huck to flat, PB did however...
  • 62 1
 Not much of a huck
  • 33 1
 Perhaps the weakest jump ever with a pinkbike post dedicated to it. Slow winter though..
  • 38 1
 they didn't want to break it
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: I was thinking the same thing. My grandma could jump off that and be ok... haha
  • 2 1
 This is the most rigorous testing a Pole has ever endured
  • 35 1
 No chainstays were harmed in the making of this film
  • 8 3
 the bike doesnt have chainstay.. look closer
  • 5 0
 @Lagr1980: chainstay disintegrated. Its an advancement from crumple zones in auto industry.
  • 1 1
 @Lagr1980: Orange called ... They want their... You know the rest !
  • 32 0
 Dude, you got like 3 feet of air
  • 29 1
 This is actually the one and only quality control test. Ship ‘me!
  • 18 1
 Nice. The floor is tested and is solid. How'd the bike do?
  • 14 2
 Oh this comment section is gonna a be awesome!
  • 9 0
 PB has something for everyone today.
"Video: make climbing easier with proper body position."

And for those who saw that and said "nah, that's not for me"
"Spotted: Pole eMTB prototype gets hucked to flat."
  • 10 2
 I'm not Anti-E MTB, but it seems weird for a company like Pole, that posed its ethics against carbon, to jump in the E-MTB market.

Considering on average only about 50-60% material of these batteries can be recycled, do they (or rest of E-MTB industry) have a plan for this? Honestly curious.
  • 7 1
 Where'd you get that 50-60% from?
  • 13 2
 e broke
  • 12 3
 Wow, so much hate in these comments..
  • 3 4
 Sell it! Or even better, just leave it out in the street unlocked.
  • 5 3
 Exactly. All the engineers of the world met here.
  • 3 2
 Well, good reputation travel far, but bad reputation will go even further.
  • 7 2
 Right!? And 99% of them coming from folks that have never swung a leg over a pole.
  • 5 3
 Its because its easier to hate on someone when in reality, you just can't afford a premium bike.
  • 4 2
 Yes you should remember how pole handled the chanstay situation with pinkbike. It was like they made a mistake and instead of apologizing, Leo was whining on pole website. Very bad for brand reputation !
  • 4 2
 @Simzesun: Chainstay situation is just a tip of the iceberg.
Disintegrating front triangles, 3 months waiting list that overnight becomes a 9 month, customer support that doesn't exist and persistence of Mr. Engineer that everything is just freaking dandy and that he knows best are pretty much the main reason for all the hate.

I am the model customer for the Pole. I'm old enough to prefer long and stable bikes, I have money, I can wait for the bike, love hi tech alu bikes... and 4 weeks ago when I placed the order for a new bike, it took me less than 3 minutes to discard the new Pole
  • 4 1
 @pakleni: can’t do that, love my bike more than any other imI have tried????
  • 9 1
 Doesn't look like he pulled too hard on the e-break
  • 7 0
 making sure pinkbike wont break it
  • 7 0
 The all new electric pole.....ride for longer
  • 13 8
 Well, they had the suspension set up, so it wouldn't bottom out which is good. Hint, hint, PB. Razz
  • 4 0
 you didn't get pitted. not a huck
  • 5 1
 Is it me or does that look a lot like the Forestal?
  • 4 0
 JASON LUCAS - Huck to flat expert.
  • 7 1
 Jason Lucas, the man who gives a huck!
  • 1 0
 “Just tell me where and when”

What a great guy
  • 3 0
 I'll buy one, just so everybody can say they saw a 62 year old man on a pole hucking big doubles in a Borat g string...
  • 2 2
 @DoubleCrownAddict: i cant reply to comments for some reason but in relation to the comment of

"What's lazy about doing twice as many laps? Work smarter, not harder"

its because your not putting in anywhere near as much effort. sure you can go further if you like but where i live if i had a pound for every time i see an e-bike rider rock up in a van get out there e-bike and run a single loop of an 11 mile long track and take strava shortcut lines in most places they can (ive seen many do this) to then pack up an go home whilst i ride multiple laps i would have a lot of money. it may not be true of every e-bike rider but from what i see most e-bike riders round my local trails are as lazy as they get yet most have pretty expensive e-bikes and all the gear.
  • 1 0
 Head over to Kuraläppä podcast's instagram highlights to see a bike check of this. Leo Kokkonen raced this season's first enduro series race in Finland and won ebike category.
  • 3 1
 Well if no one else is going to say it... Full review tomorrow
  • 2 0
 Chainstays:
Bring back the Mountain Cycles San Andreas - as an E-Bike
  • 3 5
 @DoubleCrownAddict: dude... not worth explaining to people what the merits are. You won't convince them that the exertion is just the same at the end of the ride (cumulative). What's ironic and funny is when these skeptics finally ride one, buy one and then silently agree (finally) that e-bikes are cool. I speak from experience. LOL
  • 2 0
 Pole is giving the stick to be beaten with.
  • 2 0
 Nimble? Compared to what, a cargo ship?
  • 1 0
 That's like the kind of jumps I used to do on my banana seat 20" back at the trailer park.
  • 2 1
 Naild react suspension...
  • 2 3
 Not sure about uber long and uber slack ebike, they are already stable based on weight, copying mtb geo will result in super stable and super effort to maneuver
  • 1 0
 “Feels solid”

WTF Leo, way to jinx it. ;-)
  • 1 0
 Weak huck, but B for effort.
  • 2 2
 Feels solid.—Leo Kokkonen................. unlike your normal bikes then!
  • 3 5
 I find this funny. Will not go into details but during "Bucklegate" Leo and I had an exchange or two........... Now it seems they are taking my advice. Must be the new CEO.
  • 1 2
 'Pole [eMTB Prototype] Gets Hucked to Flat'
'Feels solid.'
'"let me know when and where it needs to be hucked."'

Got nothing to add.
  • 1 0
 Ebikes, making E stays great again!
  • 2 0
 What a time to be alive.
  • 2 2
 Supposedly slick international biking company and that's the best ramp setup they could find
  • 1 0
 The price will breake my Credit Card
  • 1 1
 Now... does the current come out of the positive Pole or the negative Pole?
  • 1 0
 Don't mind me, I'm just wandering about looking for Friday Fails....
  • 1 0
 Pol€ gets a lot of attention...
  • 1 1
 Are they trying to rehab their perception after Jason Lucas broke their bike?
  • 1 0
 Wow! That's the biggest huck to flat I've ever seen
  • 1 0
 What's that white bike in the background? Evolink?
  • 1 0
 Only here for the chain stay comments
  • 7 8
 If only they put in the work fixing their current frames instead of developing something else that will probably break
  • 13 6
 They have. Stop hating, do some research.. They are solid bikes, all bike brands have failures.
  • 3 4
 If only people on the internet were smarter than a high schooler
  • 3 4
 Is the bar for durability really this low? My '97 Klein hard tail gets sent of bigger drops than this on my daily commute.
  • 3 3
 Are all the problems with the normal frames already solved?
  • 2 2
 I would call it "PolE - a break through mountainbike"
  • 1 0
 Nice
  • 1 1
 Quality control test #1 - success
  • 1 0
 Pre-production facility?
  • 2 3
 not going to last long without a chain stay
  • 2 2
 Now with rear Etriangles
  • 3 3
 Looks like an Orange
  • 1 2
 Looks like Dreck.
  • 4 5
 Weak
  • 1 3
 big brain time! can't snap a chainstay if you don't have any!
  • 1 3
 Definitely not a Cube.

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