Spotted: Hope's Prototype High Pivot Enduro Bike [Updated with Response from Hope]

Aug 8, 2021
by Ed Spratt  

It looks like Hope may be the latest brand to be joining the high pivot hype train as Tristan Tinn, our photographer at 'Ard Rock, managed to get some shots of a prototype enduro bike from the British brand.

This new prototype could be the first new bike from Hope since it launched the HB130 trail bike in August 2019 following on from its longer travel sibling the HB160. Both bikes used Hope's carbon manufacturing at its factory in Barnoldswick. Looking at this new bike, it appears to be potentially sharing the same production methods with a carbon front triangle paired with an aluminum rear end as we saw on both the HB160 and 130.

The similarities with Hope's past bikes seem to end there as the prototype frame now uses a vertical shock placement and a different suspension design to its past bikes. The most obvious difference to the past designs comes in the form of the high pivot and idler.

We don't currently know if this is planned as a production bike, but we do know that with its carbon manufacturing facility, it is far easier for Hope to create and try out different designs and ideas than brands that outsource manufacturing.

The high pivot Hope has a few similarities with the HB160, but there are plenty of changes to be found on this prototype.

Updated with response from Hope

Details are light on this bike at the moment, but we did reach out to Hope who were able to confirm that this is a very early prototype of a new bike it is working on. Hope don't have much to share about the bike just yet, although we were told that we should expect the launch of this new bike before summer next year.


185 Comments

  • 118 44
 Love that these “spotted” shots are clearly staged and photoshopped.

I’ll be the first to say it… review tomorrow.
  • 24 1
 Curious on the rear pivot location. Is weagle or trek going to sue first?
  • 223 39
 “Spotted” doesn’t mean ‘We snuck into a factory and took pictures’. It means there was a bike that most of the world hasn’t seen at a race and a photographer snagged some shots.

Hope obviously wants the press, or they wouldn’t have the bike at a public event.

Sorry to disappoint, but there’s no review tomorrow.
  • 44 0
 @mikekazimer: maybe the day after tomorrow? Wink
  • 25 1
 @mikekazimer: get em told lad.
  • 1 0
 @Vlad-Putin: correct me if I am wrong, but the patent was for 10 years, and now it has passed. It is ringing somewhere in my head. Sorry if i am wrong.
  • 8 2
 Which part of the photo is photoshopped in your opinion?
  • 59 0
 @TEBP: it is so obvious. no wrinkles, waist is impossibly tiny, perfect hair...
  • 20 14
 @mikekazimer: That is what "Spotted" should mean though. When someone says they "spotted" an animal, I don't think anyone in the world would assume they mean at the zoo...
  • 5 0
 @TEBP: every photo on every site is probably photoshopped to some degree. The only thing I can assume they are referring to is how the stick holding the bike upright has been photoshopped out.
  • 16 2
 Lol pinkbike is always so touchy about this comment.
  • 3 3
 @skimtb1: they are always touchy about everything. The next one should be "look at this photograph of this bike with next to zero information about besides the brand and it's a bike"
  • 2 4
 @mikekazimer: as a paying Outside+MegaUlraElite pinkbike member, I expect “spotted” photos to look much more natural than a blatant press photo shoot. I will be leaving a very strongly worded review about this disappointment.
  • 6 15
flag ProChargedZ28 (Aug 7, 2021 at 21:50) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: when you spot a loin in the wild, you don't ask it to sit pretty while you snap photos. This was a photo shoot. Call it what it was please.

Thanks,
Everyone on PB
  • 8 0
 @ProChargedZ28: Mmmporkloin.
  • 21 0
 @ProChargedZ28: taking photos of loins in public? Not sure you can do that nowadays without a visit from the police
  • 11 0
 @ProChargedZ28: you had one job…
  • 1 0
 @Vlad-Putin: Its a split pivot.
  • 1 0
 @Vlad-Putin: previous Commencal Clash also had what appeared to be a split-pivot design. Nobody sued them so guess the patent expired. Smile
  • 1 0
 @makripper: You mean like Mark Scott's bike check?
  • 1 0
 @ProChargedZ28: I've never seen a pride of loins in the wild.
  • 1 0
 @Vlad-Putin: I hope that doesn't happen.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: it would be nice if companies could get scoops line they used to , inside scoop kind of thing
  • 2 0
 @ProChargedZ28: a loin in the wild eh
  • 2 0
 @whateverbr0: lol that's no bike check. "Bike is yellow. Much wow"
  • 2 0
 @a100steaksauce: maybe the patent has expired. As noted elsewhere in here commencal and Orbea have both used it.
  • 7 0
 @mikekazimer: Listening to the pb podcast has made me understand so much more of how PB operates and makes me much more appreciative of the work you guys do.

Not everything is a conspiracy to me since getting insight of the inner workings and your thoughts.
  • 1 0
 nah you have it all wrong, "spotted" means just that.

But wait till Hope officially release this bike, THEN pinkbike will release their 3 month review the day after
  • 2 0
 @Compositepro: a loin spotted in the wild goes unnoticed by hundreds of pb commentators. I say the loin deserves more recognition
  • 1 0
 Over 50% of wild loins remaining today share their landscape with people, outside formally protected areas like national parks. We should all do our parts to help protect loins.
  • 4 0
 @sportstuff: covering them with a loin cloth may hide them
  • 49 0
 Not spotted at all... that bike is black.
  • 30 1
 I Hope this comes out at reasonable price.
  • 14 3
 I shore hope it is
  • 62 1
 Spoiler, it won't
  • 11 1
 @schlayer: Hope business execs all got high one day and decided to pivot in a new direction
  • 6 0
 @browner: You say they did a spliff pivot?
  • 34 11
 Looks like a session
  • 12 1
 ...and there it is.
  • 9 1
 Looks like the norco
  • 14 0
 @Compositepro: are you Shore? I cant see it
  • 18 0
 Is that a fawking Ardent??
  • 2 0
 noo, its an ardent race
  • 6 0
 Hope they do an all ally version available in 6 pretty anodised colours.
Bet they won’t though.
Always wondered why the didnt offer their rims in pretty colours, you could have some very pretty colour combos along with yer fancy hope brakes
  • 9 0
 @Kebabroll Because they don’t make the rims.
  • 2 1
 @davechopoptions: sure enough but they could get em shipped over in raw then anosise in da house?
  • 1 0
 You can get colour decals for the rims, less stock/cost than getting them painted/anodised.
www.invisiframe.co.uk/custom-decal/rim-kits/hope-rim-decal-kits
  • 6 0
 I still ride a 2013 Kona Abracadabra. It’s not a high pivot but the chain stay lengthens . But not always. It’s a dual shock design and chain tension works in combination with the two shocks and basically dual pivot points . It’s a cool design and has its advantages. One is it’s poppy most of the time . You can climb with 4” of travel and use the 160mm intermittently the rest of the time . It’s a suspension you have to learn how to use to its strengths and try to avoid its negatives . Like when you need the short wheel base going through a corner and your punched in too hard and the rear lengthens and you can’t cut the tight line . You’ll push wide because the rearend is too long all of a sudden. Like any design you learn to ride them to their advantages.
I like the high pivot design and glad it is finally back and being developed.
Hope everything works out for Hope . Love the quality of their products.
  • 8 1
 This actually looks genuinely interesting. Hopefully the geo is sorted unlike the HB160 which was short and steep and outdated when it was released
  • 42 38
 Does anyone actually want all that extra chain bs for questionable suspension improvement
  • 72 12
 Yes
  • 29 18
 My opinion is: No
  • 53 2
 I’m not knowledgeable or good enough to know.
  • 26 19
 have you ever ridden a high pivot on a proper downhill track, heck on any trail? i thought not. difference is night and day. i dont care how good your platform is, nothing beats a rearward axle path
  • 8 0
 By knowledgeable, I probably mean experienced. I haven’t ridden one to compare to, but I understand the theory.
  • 26 4
 @tonkatruck: yea I've owned one for two years. Not the revolution you so describe. Good but has drawbacks like any design.
  • 8 0
 Will it make you faster? Probably not. Are they amazing to ride? Always yes.
  • 10 7
 @tonkatruck: Funny, I can’t tell a bloody difference. As long as it’s comfy and lets me bunnyhop I don’t care, and I’m not exactly crawling down trails either.
  • 14 1
 @tonkatruck: I have a 180mm high pivot and liked it so much I just bought a druid.

For me, high pivots have been a total game changer.
  • 16 0
 @AlanMck: that’s the thing everyone just says it’s better than the last thing they rode.

No it’ll be better in some ways and worse in others, buy the bike that suits your terrain and style because there is no perfect bike
  • 8 0
 @toad321: yup. Depends on a lot of things. The axle path is important and I think that one that is purely rearward has significant drawbacks in handling, as the chainstays grow if you corner hard. You get used to it of course and they are amazing in the rough. I've got a DW link bike now and I'm really enjoying it.
  • 2 1
 Yes I do
  • 10 2
 Having had 3 high pivot DH bikes, I think the most tangible benefit of the rearward axle path is the ability to maintain and even gain speed in rough and rocky terrain that hang up other suspension layouts. For me, it was game changer for racing. If that isn’t your typical terrain, especially on a trail bike, the drawbacks may outweigh the (huge) benefit.
  • 4 0
 Rearward axle path and no pedal kickback. Until you’ve experienced it, don’t knock it. It’s an incredible difference.
  • 3 0
 hell yes until you ride a high pivot u wouldn't no any difference but my god its the way forward it feels amazing on the rough stuff
  • 6 3
 Some may indeed. To me it looks like more mechanicals to worry about. Sure there's a benefit, but I don't need a better suspension platform. The one I ride works just fine the way it is.
  • 2 1
 Absolutely
  • 17 3
 Questionable? The difference is huge. I immediately noticed it on my first lap with my 2021 supreme. The rearward axle path is noticeable right away, especially when you're deeper into the travel. Rather than the wheel base getting shorter, it gets longer as the suspension compresses resulting in better stability in fast, steep rock gardens. Because of the rearward axle path, rather than getting hung up on rocks and roots it just effortlessly plows through tech like it's not even there. Instead of losing speed in rough sections I pick up speed instead. It just wants to keep going faster.

Benefiting from high pivot depends on what you ride. If you're riding flow you won't see any benefits. In my opinion a low pivot design would be better. It's much harder to jump. I had to relearn how to take off from a lip. High pivots want to stay glued to the ground. If you like a playful, poppy ride it's not for you. Basically high pivot is for people who want to go as fast as possible on rough DH tracks with natural jumps and drops.

Anyways, this is just my observation with my own experience comparing my commencal supreme to every bike I've ever owned. Take it with a grown of salt but high pivot definitely is not a gimmick
  • 4 2
 High pivots have pros and cons like all things bike related, pros being through rough terrain and holding more speed and a soft ride through the biggest bumps. Negatives being harder to bunny hop, changing geo can be an advantage or disadvantage and the small bump performance is usually worse on high pivots as small bumps usually act upwards and in high frequency, this is one area whwre traditional axle paths are superior. On a full on dh bike at mach chicken on rough terrain though high pivots make perfect sense.. on a trail bike at trail speeds on modest terrain tbey make less sense, poorer snall bump, high frequency chatter performance and a less playful bike that is harder to hop over obstacles and chick around...horse for courses.
  • 1 2
 yes of course why would high pivot bikes sell otherwise
  • 4 1
 @tonkatruck: yes, it’s better at something’s and worse at others just like most other designs. In two years there will be something else and the mtb industry will be telling you why you should sell your high pivot bike for something else.
  • 6 2
 @thenotoriousmic: probably true, the next will probably be gearbox bikes and how belts are better than chains and are not compatible with an idler therefore meaning high pivots are old news. There is always something they come ip with to make people feel their bike is outdated. I think a lot of people forget just how much snappiness, agility and acceleration we have goven up from the 26" days in order to get better rollover speed.
  • 7 4
 @Danzzz88: they still currently focusing on selling us mullets after everyone’s bought a 4 meter long 29’er as soon as enough people have bought a mullet then high pivots are next, once they’ve sold enough high pivots they’ll bring out something new. This is how the bike industry works. It’s all bullshit. Want a genuine honest review of a bike product, then just wait until the next version comes out and they’ll tell you exactly what’s wrong with the product and why you should buy the latest version despite it being the best thing since sliced and a must buy when ot was reviewed 12 to 18 months previously.
  • 5 0
 I wonder if anyone has ever tested the losses theough the idler
  • 4 0
 @Compositepro: Aaron Gwin once tested losses through crankset, cassette, and deraileur
  • 1 0
 @vemegen: ill google
  • 1 0
 No as I ride oval chainrings lol
  • 5 0
 @stubestrong: you could run an oval idler
  • 1 2
 @tonkatruck: I know a few good racers who are delighted to be off that night and day rearward axle path and they are going faster again having left that must have, night and day suspension.

I have ridden one at my local, over spring, didn't overly like it, might suit big open, fast tracks abroad more maybe than here in the UK.
  • 1 0
 @drlancefreeride: Spot on! Having been on the first 5 years of BB7s way back. Total game changer, for that specific terrain.
  • 1 1
 @Compositepro: the dude at Beta did and concluded it was something like 1%
  • 1 0
 yes everyone who understands chain growth does
  • 8 1
 @ThunderChunk: I owned a supreme and the drawbacks of a single pivot design are still there. The suspension performance under braking for example...

I'm not knocking it, I just find that everyone's new bike is the best bike they've ever ridden, and fuel has been added to this by the Commencal team success. The success is ultimately down to the insane talent they've got on the team, Thirion was on a high pivot bike for at least two seasons before this success came (not that he isn't talented, my point is that he didn't just get on the HP design and start winning).
  • 1 1
 @thenotoriousmic: so true. If you haven’t seen it, here is a glimpse into one of the great marketing strategists of the bike world...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj0uBQ7j5c4
  • 1 3
 @notphaedrus: that’s exactly what they do and then you have people on here talking nonsense about how boost is a night and day difference and they’re never going back to regular hubs etc. Not once has anyone got a new bike, damper or wheelsize and got better on a bike. Never once has your mate or anyone else turned up to the trails on a new bike and been a better rider than they were on their old set up. It might make a difference to elite riders racing for fractions of a second but doesn’t make any difference to most people. I can’t barely tell if I’m really much faster on my full suspension than I am on my hardtail.
  • 6 2
 @thenotoriousmic: yeah, I ride an unfashionable 2016 27.5 transition patrol with NON Boost wheels!!! Seat angle under 75 degrees and it’s a large with the reach of a ‘modern’ medium. I still ride faster than most blokes half my age! It’s great bike. I’m not anti-development, we wouldn’t have disc brakes and dropper posts without the industry meeting the market demands, but there is too much pushing the next slightly different trend down our throats by the magazines / tinternet.

Why not have an article on the greenest approach to mountain biking (e.g. keeping your bike for as long as possible) or a head to head between a five year old and a new version of the same bike? (Which will be almost identical)

Just stop reading this, get your bike out, and enjoy our beautiful trails!
  • 2 0
 @notphaedrus: laughed my ass off
  • 5 8
 @notphaedrus: ikr, anyone would think this is F1 or something looking for 100ths of a second performance improvement, so some fat ass rich bigger can ride his local blue trails at 10mph in 14:59 instead of 15mins. If you genuinely like riding bikes you wouldn't be overly concerned about all this bollocks, a pro can ride a bike from 20 years ago faster than some casual dude riding his Trickstuffed, EXT shocked Spec Enduro ever could. Half the guys buying these stupidly expensive bikes have probably never even had air time, as if 1cm of extra rearward axle path is going to make f all difference to them..
  • 4 0
 @Danzzz88: who cares what anyone else wants to spend their money on though? If it makes them happy then so what? No one is forcing anyone to buy a HP bike or to increase their reach by 7mm.

Also, shit bikes still exist and that is a fact. I've owned several.
  • 2 9
flag Danzzz88 (Aug 8, 2021 at 9:24) (Below Threshold)
 And not only that, even if it does make a difference, wtf does it matter if you go for a casual ride amd finish a second or two faster on a lap...who are you racing against? Is it really worth 5-10k to upgrade just for that? Like it's going to be any more fun or the ladies will come running. This is all just a market driven dick swinging contest, it's so some arrogant cnt can turn up at the trailhead and have his ego stroked by other 'riders' that can't ride for shit and are only intwrwsted in the next flashiest thing. It's funny when you actually go to these places, the guys that truly rip don't have fking clue about tge latest tech, they ride bikes from years ago and still shred. I've seen goes that absolutely shred and didn't even k ow what Eagle was, they were just like that looks flashy, then proceeded to rip on their dh rigs from 2005. As I say this is more a dick swinging contest than anything else, and the mugs are willing to pay for it.
  • 7 0
 @Danzzz88: you care too much about what others are riding. I know plenty of fast lads on 2021 rigs specced to the hilt. I also know some slow lads, they just like having nice bikes... so what.
  • 5 1
 ‘Is it worth the 5-10k extra?’

Speaking from experience, yes.

I don’t care what other people ride or how fast they ride, even how fast I ride, but riding the best of the best kit is really, really nice.
  • 2 0
 @tomhoward379: and also, who's to say this is going to be super expensive? The 130 is £6299. A similar groupset and suspension on a hightower is nearly 7 last time I checked. If Hope managed to spec some Rockshox and SLX a complete could come in at £5500...
  • 2 0
 @AlanMck: keep in mind I never said the supreme was the best bike I've ever ridden. I was just explaining how a high pivot feels. The best bike I've ever ridden is still my specialized Enduro s works with ohlins suspension. It has set the bar pretty high for what a bike can do. My supreme is my "beater" bike so I don't kill my Enduro in the park or on gnarly DH tracks.
  • 1 1
 @Danzzz88: i like that
  • 4 0
 Lots of highpivots rolling around these days! Hey PB could plz get a highpivot shootout article??Smile
  • 3 2
 I don't really get the hype over High Pivot. I owned a High Pivot bike, it was a very nice bike, good build quality for sure, super stable at speed felt really supportive on landings as the wheelbase technically expands while going through the rear travel...I defenitly felt the resistance on the climbs which I disliked a lot and the wheelbase actually felt to big (that being said I, I sized up). All those pros with the cons, I personally prefer the feel of a regular drivetrain with the Kinematics of a regular drivetrain. The Pros if the High Pivot for me do not add up to a better feeling bike.
  • 6 2
 I have high hopes for this
  • 5 2
 Hope: sorry about the road bikes lately guys...high pivot enduro bike anyone?
  • 1 0
 Lolled
  • 4 0
 Reminds me a bit look like the Norcos Shore. Though I could be wrong...
  • 1 0
 i agree. looks just like it
  • 1 0
 @theredbike: I mean it could be a scenario like how other bike brands borrow the designs of other bike companies
  • 5 1
 Big downtube training us to accept ebikes????
  • 3 0
 Hmm... I just want a successor to the Pro 4 already. Pro 6 with 6 pawls for better engagement. Just an idea. Oh well....
  • 1 0
 I'm hopeful that the production version will have a more aesthetically appealing rear triangle, right now it looks like an afterthought compared to the gorgeous front triangle.
  • 2 0
 I like the look of that concentric pivot around the rear axle...same layout as the Session and upcoming Devinci prototype.
  • 2 0
 thats a nice one. hpp is the hype now.... they should make a vented 230 disc for 29er wheels Razz
  • 2 0
 Thank goodness I feel there is a Huge shortage of this design to Choose from
  • 2 0
 If the current trend continues, we'll have seat tube angles over 90° in five years time...
  • 2 3
 Firstly, good on the fact it has same size wheels. Like all bike should do.

Secondly, I hope (excuse the pun) it rides better than their previous incarnations. Was one of the most sluggish, uninspiring bikes I've ridden. Does look better thankfully.
  • 1 2
 Was waiting for this. Their 130 and 180 seem fairly rudimentary and practical as far as their first bikes go, a safe and sound entry into the frame market. But this thing looks like it's designed to live up to Hopes name, It should be exceptional.
  • 1 0
 the straight lines, lack of potbelly and chin-tuck makes for a SWEET looking bike! especially compared to previous swoopy things.
  • 6 3
 Looks like an Orange.
  • 3 0
 underrated !
  • 5 0
 Better than looking like a lemon
  • 1 0
 unfortunatley
  • 6 8
 "High Pivot"
Moving the instant center by 3 cm so the axle path gets 5° slacker does jack shit for rear end compliance (small angle approximation). If your lower pivot is still so low that you can get away with keeping the standard horst link/ four bar suspension layout you dont have a high pivot, but just a standard rear end. To really reap the benefits of a high pivot the pivot needs to be so high up, that these layouts no longer work and you have to use a design like forbidden or commencal on their dh bike.
This right here and Treks "new" Session is just a way to be able to use the phrase "High Pivot" for marketing without actually putting any effort into developing a new bike.
  • 1 1
 By these standards do the Forbidden bikes qualify? Are the Forbidden pivots that much higher?
  • 2 1
 @alexsin: Forbiddens is a fair bit higher, but I think they too could still go up a little. There is going to be a point where the pivot gets too high, but I dont think that any of the newer high pivot bikes has reached that yet. I dont want to push high pivot on all bikes and riders, since it doesnt make sense in all use cases, but most current "high pivot" designs arent high pivot enough to really make the rider feel the difference to a normal rear end imo.
  • 3 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: the Forbiddens have a rearward axle path throughout their full travel. Maybe that’s a useful benchmark as to pivot location being high enough. Not every high pivot bike has this. A bit subjective of course.
  • 1 0
 @Vlad-Putin: Doesnt sound that arbitraty.

If "h" is your pivot height above the axle and "l" is your chainsay length you could use "sin(arctan(h/l))" to determine hom many % of the axle moment are rearward at 0mm travel. This would be an easy and linear way to determine how rearward an axle path is.
  • 1 0
 @endoplasmicreticulum: yep, like the Zerode G1 DH frame, most advantage in corners when the wheel base remains "long".
  • 1 6
flag stubs179 (Aug 7, 2021 at 11:59) (Below Threshold)
 They are all essentially single pivot frames. They just run a triangle with a lower linkage driven shock so it looks fancy. Commercials doesn’t even look to be much higher than this Hope. How knows, it’s all just a gimmick imo.
  • 1 5
flag LouisMTBw (Aug 7, 2021 at 12:42) (Below Threshold)
 have you seen the size of 3 cm, the pivot is way higher then that, not the size of you d!ck
  • 3 1
 Beautiful example of how ugly are derailuer drivetrains.
  • 2 3
 Can't wait to see some high pivot ebikes.
Makes so much sense when pedalling efficiency iant as critical...esp with a the new dual crowns that can turn like single.(hopefully those are coming)
  • 1 0
 Haibike used to have some. Can't bother to look up their website to see if it's still the case though.
  • 1 1
 I just whish this bike was made of metal. You know, mashining metal, what Hope does so amazingly well. Looks amazing though - but is just another carbon bike to me.
  • 2 0
 The back half is...
  • 1 0
 The proto looks like definitely an improvement over the HB160. The HB 160 was too short of reach.
  • 1 0
 Is this item available?
... sorry, i know it's not marketplace, just need someone to query then ghost today.
  • 2 0
 A Hope, an Orange, and a Session walk into a bar...
  • 1 0
 Decent. But if its full of hope proprietary standards then there is no hope for it
  • 2 0
 High Hopes....
  • 1 0
 Glad I got on the high pivot train before it was cool
  • 2 2
 I’m sure I drew that when I was was about 12 and pulling one off to Kate Bush....
  • 3 1
 looks like a shore
  • 2 0
 That was my first thought
  • 2 1
 Looks like a shore, but somehow uglier
  • 1 1
 Perhaps they could get some brake pads out the door?? Been waiting on those for about 13 months now.
  • 1 1
 ‘We don’t have any replacement parts…….hold my beer……frame time!’
  • 1 0
 High pivot and green components. Take my MFin money Hope.
  • 1 0
 Shore + 2018 carbon patrol = this
  • 2 0
 Hope it rides amazing
  • 1 0
 Mmmmmmmmmmmmm, fuck yeah.
  • 2 2
 Is that a reverse mullet? Kinda looks like it.
  • 2 1
 Looks like an e-bike.
  • 1 1
 Sorry, I don't need CNC on my bike frame.
  • 2 1
 I love hope, i love cnc
  • 1 0
 Looks like a session
  • 1 0
 looks like a session
  • 1 0
 Looks like Norco Shore.
  • 2 3
 Let's hope this one is a winner
  • 1 1
 —
  • 1 1
 Doughnut anyone?
  • 1 2
 "Spotted"
Ban yourself !
  • 2 3
 Who really care?
  • 1 4
 sick bikes comes to mind for ripping off customers
  • 2 0
 What? Hope have been in business for decades?
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