Spotted: Prototype SRAM Direct Mount Drivetrain - Les Gets XC World Champs 2022

Aug 23, 2022
by Mike Kazimer  

After a year of rumors and speculation, SRAM's new drivetrain has finally appeared out in the wild, installed on several XC race bikes in Les Gets. As we expected, based on a patent that was granted last May, the derailleur uses a direct mount design that places the derailleur body more inboard compared to current SRAM derailleurs. That should help keep it safe from impacts, and the direct mount itself has the potential to add stiffness and stability to the system, improving overall shifting performance.

The design also looks like it would keep the derailleur in a more stationary position, something that would go a long way towards reducing the amount of unnecessary chain movement, and noise.

It's likely that the new derailleur will only be compatible with frames that can run a Universal Derailleur Hanger in order to ensure there's enough room for the mount to sandwich the frame's dropout. If that's the case, it seems like a very smart tactic on SRAM's part. The UDH standard has seen widespread acceptance, making it it easier to find a relatively inexpensive replacement derailleur hanger, and now those UDH-compatible bikes will likely be able to run this system too if riders decide to upgrade, or companies decide to spec it.

The derailleur is wireless and electronic, with the AXS battery tucked in between the two sides of the direct mount, and the power button situated in a recess in what looks like a composite plate on the side of the derailleur. It's hard to say for sure, but the pulley wheels look like they could be aluminum. If that's the case, it'd be a welcome upgrade from the plastic that's currently used.

The derailleur’s not the only new, unreleased item floating around - check out that BMC.

Interestingly, the chain has the same 'Flattop' design SRAM uses for their road bike chains, which is said to add strength while still allowing for the correct width for a 12-speed cassette. The cassette looks to be all new as well, with the cogs pinned onto a carrier rather than the one-piece design currently used for XX1 cassettes.

There's no review coming tomorrow, but we'll try to get on one of these drivetrains as soon as possible - the potential for a quieter, more reliable shifting system is certainly very intriguing. The fact that SRAM's athletes are racing it at World Champs is typically a sign that it's getting closer to full production; this article will be updated if any release timeline is revealed.





253 Comments

  • 126 0
 Classifieds going fill up with a lot of "brand new, only ridden 576 miles according to Strava" Eagle components.
  • 39 181
flag ilovedust (Aug 23, 2022 at 12:25) (Below Threshold)
 576 miles on GX eagle is chain and cassette replacement time twice over!! Worst wear I have ever seen in a drive train.
  • 460 4
 @ilovedust, you're getting less than 300 miles out of an Eagle cassette? Are you riding inside of a cement mixer?
  • 240 1
 @ilovedust: username checks out?
  • 23 4
 @ilovedust: Yea, I've got both Sram and Shimano and I seem to wear through Shimano chains/cassette quicker than Sram. I've got both GX and XO1 and a bike with XT.
  • 39 2
 @ilovedust: guess what, you can replace most chains a few times before you need to think about cassettes.

One of my bikes is running a cassette with over 5000 miles of UK mud through it (though the last chain took a few crunchy miles and stern words to bed in)
  • 17 32
flag ilovedust (Aug 23, 2022 at 12:50) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: its sandy round here but I am utterly shocked just how quick its worn through. I would not mind but of late I dont ride that hard or that much.
Someone tell me otherwise but I used my Park chain checker and its exceeded ‘1.0’ in a time that I would not have even thought to check full stop. My boy rides SX and thats done the same though granted its SX….
Either way, thats my experience and it will not be replicated with more 12spd sram.
  • 34 4
 @ilovedust: GX isn't great lasting buts it's not terrible. XX1 is the longest lasting cassette on the market by miles, it really is a fantastic pice of kit, lools great and shifts well...however I run Shimano because it shifts better, is better priced and they have no nonsense better cranks that enable the use of properly sized bottom bracket bearings unlike stupid 30mm spindle plastic cranks that crack around the pedal inserts.
  • 23 0
 @ilovedust: I've heard this cliche w/ SRAM but am not seeing it at all over countless chains, cassettes & chainrings. I'm gettin about 14-1500 miles per GX chain (1700 on one of them) and going on 3500-4000 miles on a typical GX (or X01) cassette - this is about 2500-3000 trail miles per year.

I'm doing this (maybe) from constant cleaning (chainpig) & lubing about every 2-3 rides (plus not shifting under loads) and this is in rough-ass Pisgah (eastern US / western NC) enduro and some pretty raw / rough DH conditions about 200-250 miles +/- per month and year round riding here. This also includes rides throughout east coast & Rocky Mountain regions annually - but maybe yr issues just the eternal radioactivity where you live (insert smile here).
  • 13 0
 Chainline is often overlooked. I try running a 6mm offset chainring before I decide on whether a 3mm offset is necessary.
  • 23 3
 great, so now you have to buy a whole new derailleur instead of just the hanger
  • 33 0
 @ilovedust: you might already know this but just in case... which Park chain checker are you using?

cyclingtips.com/2019/08/bicycle-chain-wear-and-checking-for-it

This article discusses (among other things) the fact that several common checkers (any tool that measures inside-to-inside or outside-to-outside) throw a false reading on SRAM 12 speed chains due to SRAM's roller diameters being larger than normal:

"SRAM chains, and their oversized rollers, throw a spanner in the works. If you’re dealing with SRAM chains, then definitely get yourself a tool like the Pedro’s Chain Wear Checker II or Park Tool CC-4. They’ll work great with all other chains, too."
  • 13 5
 @Mtn-Goat-13: shifting under loads has very little to due with chain wear. Shifting under loads breaks or bends chains, it doesn't "stretch" them. Nor does roughness of terrain have much to do with wear. It's simply how much it's used, under how much force, and how clean it is.

Perhaps you're on the lighter side of the weight spectrum. Perhaps you clean and lube extra fastidiously. I'm 100 kilos, lubricate regularly (follow Dumonde Tech's recs, just wait until you can hear it, then reapply, 3-4 rides usually), and wore a GX chain to 1.0% stretch in 400 miles in New England.

If you're getting 3000 miles out of a GX with it's lack of hardening treatments, then you're just not putting the same forces through it, and/or it's always insanely clean.
  • 5 0
 @bkm303: A) those oversize rollers are only SRAM road chains, the flat-top ones. B) Get those kind of checkers anyway, they actually measure pin-to-pin, not roller to back-of-roller. It's the only proper way to measure beside counting links and using a ruler or caliper to measure pin-to-pin and doing maths.
  • 6 0
 @justinfoil: I'm just taking it straight from the article... it says all Eagle chains are affected:

"SRAM chains are one clear exception to using these suggested tools. Most chains on the market start with a roller that’s 7.63-7.65mm in outside diameter. SRAM’s chains are larger — for example, rollers from a Red 22 chain are 7.69-7.70mm, while an Eagle 12-speed chain uses rollers that measure 7.72mm. And SRAM’s new Flat-Top chain as part of the Road AXS groups is larger again (7.90mm)."

I use a caliper.
  • 5 0
 @ilovedust: I wore through my GX chain in a similar number of miles - suddenly terrible shifting. Held it up to a new chain and it was visibly longer. Based on (I think) zero friction cycling recommendation, I've changed to XO1 and they last almost indefinitely. My GX cassette lasted until I was getting embarrassed by the number of teeth I'd smashed off on rocks, or broken off trying to straighten
  • 2 0
 @funboi-parisi: @ilovedust

prolly works for shimano lolz
  • 5 0
 I got about 500 miles out of a GX chain before it was done, I'm over 200lbs though. I started using X01 chains after and they last much longer. I got over 2000 miles out of my GX cassette.
  • 5 0
 i’ve put 1700 mtb miles and counting on my nx eagle. not gunna say it works like new, but it does work
  • 2 0
 @jeffreysendit: Lucky you, mine wiggled its way into the spokes within 15minutes of riding as NX like SX don´t seem have a working clutch at all.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: Apparently he loves riding "on the beach" in the evenings...
  • 3 0
 @bkm303:
I got one of those CC-4 checkers, but using it on 4 bikes with Sram drivetrains over a year now I can say that the difference to normal chain checkers is so tiny that it doesn't matter at all.
I have 3 different checkers in total and when the CC-4 say 0,5, so do my other normal 2 chain checkers.

So yeah, the CC-4 is nice, but not really that important for Sram chains.
  • 2 0
 @mininhi: nope, the current design will still be available. Some pre 2021 bikes are UDH compatible.
Then there is also after market possibilities for older bikes since the UDH is an open standard to bike manufacturers so they can design a retrofit hanger for older models (within reason)
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: I weigh 70 kg at destroyed a GX Chain in 800km. I get 5000-6000km out of XX1 chains, easily with no special care
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: the oversize rollers are in the eagle chains too
  • 1 0
 @bkm303: bingo
  • 5 0
 @golefty: yup, the X01/XX1 chains are worth every penny over a GX one, plus a less worn chain won't wear cassette and chain ring so fast. We should keep this quiet though, as we don't want SRAM putting the price up...
  • 1 1
 @ilovedust: I've never found a chain checker that comes back with reasonable indications of wear. Bin the chain checker and ride your bike! Also don't bother replacing the cassette every time you replace a chain; do it every 2 or 3 chains instead
  • 1 0
 Am I the only one that just uses a ruler?
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: I just use a ruler to measure pin to pin and look how far off it is at 12 inches. No math or counting needed.
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: Well, they're wrong (CyclingTips is wrong?! gasp!>Wink .

I just measured every chain in my house, including Shimano 8-speed, Shimano 10-speed, KMC 10-speed, and Eagle XO1 12-speed. All had roller diameters within +- 0.01mm of 7.70mm, with the Eagle measuring exactly 7.70mm.

If it was true that so many chains, not just the FlatTops, have oversized rollers, then they should not be recommending _any_ of the opposing-side-of-rollers style of checkers, since they won't work for a large number of new chains. Yet, while they did quickly mention the matching-side-of-rollers style are better, they continued to recommend the style that doesn't provide accurate measurements on dirty chains, and, according to them, all SRAM chains. That makes zero sense.

I mean, they state the following useless crap: "This digital chain wear checker proves that chains don’t wear evenly across their whole length. Additionally, dirt and grease (as seen here) can greatly impact the measurement." So in trying to prove that chains don't wear evenly, they use a dirty chain and also state that dirty chains can change measurements. The series of pictures showing differing measurements on the same proves _nothing_ about uneven wear because the chain is dirty, which definitely causes differing measurements. It just proves that those kind of checkers are wildly inaccurate unless used on a perfectly spotless chain (with rollers of a certain size and within a certain tolerance).
  • 4 0
 @mountainsofsussex: How are you hitting your cassette on rocks? Without demolishing mechs and/or wheels?
  • 1 0
 @OneTrustMan: You've just been lucky that your chains are relatively clean. The problem with opposing roller style is that if there is some dirt inside the rollers, it'll read short (less worn) and you can end up wearing the cassette beyond were it will take a new chain happily. If you're swapping at 0.5, probably not an issue, but some people will go old-skool/cheap-skool and wait for a 1.0 reading before a new chain, but that 1.0 could be closer to 1.5 on a dirty chain and then the cassette is likely cooked. The real checkers won't have this issue for those that want to maximize time before a chain swap by taking it right to the "limit".
  • 1 0
 @Tambo: And how do you know when to do those 2 or 3 chain replacements?
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: honestly no idea what's doing it, stuff gets flung into the huge cassette when the mech is near top gear I guess...
  • 5 0
 @Danzzz88: I'm Happy with my X01 cassette, over 11300km and still going strong, only chain(XX1) I replaced around 5000km, very happy and impressed with the quality of the X01.

Currently on XX1 drivetrain with 4992.1km, almost 5000km(lol) and it seems it can go for a long time more, I bought a new XX1 chain last month, but my mechanic told me the chain is in very good condition and no need to replace it yet

I live on a island, with a lot of dust, rocks and sea all-round and Sram rocks,

Big respect for Sram.

And I was a Shimano guy.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: just by 'feel' I guess. That and when something else is knackered and I'm placing an order anyhow, or something like that. A ruler would be better than a chain checker though, since all the chain checkers I've used my chain would be off the scale (over 100% worn).
  • 2 1
 @Aruman: Yes the XX1 cassette is very very good...my problem is mainly use the fastest half of the cassette especially the smallest 3 or 4 cogs so spending all that money isn't not beneficial for me..the smoother shifting, cheaper price and ability to buy the smallest gears separately for Shimano cassettes is the reason I run Shimano, plus I prefer the shifter and clutch. But if I used more of the cassette more often the XX1 would probably be the better choice, it lasts so so long and looks fantastic. Both brands are great for different reasons, Shimano for performance and price, and SRAM for durability, looks and weight, at least in terms of the cassette.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: Comment Gold
  • 1 0
 @Aruman: +1
I have exactly the same experiences with longevity of XX1 chain and cassettes (two bikes).
  • 1 0
 @Danzzz88:
Maybe choosing more teeth at the chainring would help to wear all cogs at your XX1 cassettes more equally?

(considering that you write : "But if I used more of the cassette more often the XX1 would probably be the better choice")
  • 1 2
 @northboy: I already run a 34t...I don't do a lot of climbing really so don't even need 50t cassettes...currently running Shimano 45t...though it may come off soon as I'm getting skipping under load...I dismantled the free hub twice and everything looks ok so thinking it may be the chain skipping on the smallest 2 sprockets...if that is the case that is shocking as I only had the cassette and chain less than 2 months...my XX1 didn't skip or show much wear after over a year. It's really hard to tell if it's the free hub or chain/cassette as it happens so instantly looking back at the drive train when it does it it's too fast to see what is happening. If it is the cassette and chain though that Shimano stuff is coming straight off.
  • 1 1
 @Aruman: same here. Shimano cassettes last me about 12-18 months before they ready for the bin and the performance has dropped off significantly from new over that 12-18 month span. I’ve got a X01 cassette from 2017 that’s only just started to go through the coating, still shifts better than a new shimano cassette and as far as I can tell the performance hasn’t dropped off yet at all.
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: Yr right and I meant breaking chains vs. just stretching. What's a kilo? Ah...you must be from N.England. Totally kidding my man - 100 kilos is 30 lbs more than me @ 190lbs so yeah, that's on the lighter side compared to you. I am a clean-chain nut for sure...but I usually pre-empt the squeak via Dumonde's suggestion b/c once I hear that in a ride, I'm pissed...hence the 2-3 ride cleaning / lube.

I have an X01 & 2 GX cassettes on 3 rear wheels, the X01 brand new and my 1st one so I'm just assuming it'll be better than GX but about 1.5-1.75 yrs per GX cassette, give or take a bit (and lots of summer park riding so maybe less harsh overall?) those seem to last overly long. I'm actually wondiering if riding harder / steeper stuff means less overall wear (for me) that general trail / XC style - usually do bigass pulls much of the day then bomb down vs. constant gear switching all day as in XC. Dunno - I've not even tried Shimano in a decade, maybe I should check it out.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: what exactly is the "performance drop off" in a cassette?
  • 1 1
 @Mtn-Goat-13: all the eagle cassettes seem to last, the cheap ones are heavy steel, and the expensive ones are decent alloy.

It's the cheaper chains that don't last. Lack of hardening on the pins is the big thing. GX gets hardened plates only, which maybe exacerbates the pin wear. NX and lower I think get hardened nothing, might actually be better than GX...

It's not really gear switching that wears the chain, it's just pedaling and dirt. A bad shift might break it, but doesn't really add much wear-wise.

Def try Shimano, I know lots of people beating the shit out of SLX and XT 12-speed and that stuff takes it well. The lever action is also way lighter than the past couple generation, which is super nice. I run SLX shifter & mech with GX cassette and XO1 chain, and race face ring (104 bcd for bash guard FTW!), works awesome.
  • 117 3
 Isn't the whole point of having a seperate derailleur hanger so that that bends instead of derailleur?
  • 34 0
 I'm looking at the points where the 'hanger'/direct-mount intersect with the upper derailleur body and wondering if maybe the breakaway points have moved there. It seems unlikely that the whole concept of not breaking the frame has been abandoned to me.
  • 9 0
 @Woody25: I am sure it has been (or at least hope) but it is going to mean replacing a derailleur instead of either bending back a hanger or replacing it.
  • 17 1
 Likely relies on the AXS clutch to save the derailleur now, not the hanger
  • 8 0
 Also thought the UDH allowed for some rearward rotation of the hanger if struck, which in addition to the clutch would help save things.
  • 4 0
 More so to be separate from the frame I'd say, having to weld them back to the frame when they broke was a real pain.
  • 18 1
 @tkrug: The "AXS clutch" just allows the parallelogram to freely actuate inward, which has always been possible on cable mechs. (except RapidRise, but we'll ignore that) Didn't negate replaceable hangers then, why would it now?
  • 1 2
 @93EXCivic: I'm not convinced, I think even SRAM know they'll get a tonne of blowback for that. I was wondering if they could do it with magnets so that the mech just breaks free if hit on the axis that AXS clutch isn't working on, but I guess the challenge is that ideally it bends but without breaking away completely and ending up in the spokes.
  • 3 1
 @tkrug: Can't tell now a days- was this a serious comment?
If so how the heck does a clutch save a frame when the RD is slammed into a rock?
  • 8 21
flag FaahkEet (Aug 23, 2022 at 14:55) (Below Threshold)
 Every time I've bent a hanger I've also broken the derailleur. I don't think there's ever been a time the derailleur was saved.
  • 32 0
 We (East Bench Composites) run a carbon repair business in Utah... these Universal hangers are way to stiff for XC frames, we see about 1 every two weeks where the frame broke instead of the hanger.... So i guess this is good for business (unfortunately)
  • 4 0
 Well you see, because the tolerances on 12 speed systems are so slim and large rear cassette cogs require a lot of cable tension, normal "soft" hangers aren't good enough to maintain reliable shifting like on your old 8 speed train. 12 speed hangers are significantly stronger. This is just another step in the same direction.
  • 13 1
 @mikekazimer can we get a Pinkbike Poll on broken derailleurs vs. broken hangers? For example: Q: "If you broke a 12-speed derailleur or hanger recently, what broke?" A: 1) Derailleur 2) Hanger 3) Both

Anecdotal evidence but I haven't yet seen someone break a 12-speed hanger before replacing their derailleur.
  • 6 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: please tell this to Specialized! Their newest hangers bend at the sight of a derailleur. I replace with North Shore Billet hangers immediately and all is well.
  • 4 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: I recently broke my hanger in a crash. 12 speed
  • 4 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: I broke my hanger. Clean off. X01 Derailleur. New hanger, didn't have to even adjust it. Shifted just like it used to!
  • 1 0
 It looks solid enough to take some knocks or if anything bend the lower cage. Mech hangers were bought in to save a very thin piece of steel hanging off the back of the dropout on old frames. Looks like you will have other problems before destroying a frame with these.
  • 2 17
flag FaahkEet (Aug 23, 2022 at 19:01) (Below Threshold)
 I can't imagine the insecurity of the several individuals that decided to down vote my experiences even though I never said they were widespread or even anything other than my experience. Well done, you've accomplished something?
  • 12 1
 @FaahkEet: " I don't think there's ever been a time the derailleur was saved."

This is the internet. There's a pretty clear record of what you said. Perhaps you misspoke. But it certainly was a general statement about hangers, which is untrue.

After seeing you whine about the down votes, I added one to the tally. I really do feel like I've accomplished something.
  • 1 13
flag FaahkEet (Aug 23, 2022 at 19:45) (Below Threshold)
 @TheRamma: That's quite the leap, but I'm glad you feel something.
  • 8 1
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: Stiff VS compliant (soft) isn't the same as strong VS weak. What we need is stiff but weak hangers, that don't bend but do break if the force is too large. Aka brittle. Ceramic derailleur hangers anyone?
  • 1 0
 @FaahkEet: unless the bike fell over on its derailleur then the hanger can bend without breaking the derailleur
  • 1 7
flag FaahkEet (Aug 24, 2022 at 2:30) (Below Threshold)
 @golefty: or a rock/tree hits the derailleur at mach chicken then the hanger may bend while the derailleur gets exploded. Clearly a lot of riders that comment here baby their bikes on wide open green trails.
  • 1 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: not broken hangers, but bent a few, and never broken the mech or the frame.
This design looks like it involves the axle, and if you break the frame there, well, I suspect other "bad things" happened that day...
  • 4 1
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: It almost sounds like 12 speed isn't all it is cut out to be...
  • 2 0
 @FaahkEet: So I broke my derailleur clean off. There's a drop at the top of Moto, and as you come up to it, you see a rock on the right, mid-drop. I didn't go far left enough, sheared the derailleur off, it was slapping against the spokes.

As I said, new hanger, everything was fine. Still riding that derailleur (Eagle X01). But I guess I was babying my bike that day...
  • 1 0
 Yeah, well you know, with the price of derailleurs dropping so much and fast, it's super cheap to just replace the derailleur vs the hanger - either that or the entire rear end of the bike. Ha. Well, someone's going to be making more money doing away with the derailleur hanger (but it won't be the consumer).
  • 1 2
 @TheRamma: Lucky you, hasn't gone that way for me. Destroyed cages or bent the RD and can't be bent back white the hanger either still fine or just barely bent.
  • 1 1
 @93EXCivic: The industry went to 1x drivetrains to smooth the transition to ebikes. Additionally, there wasn’t enough profit in front derailleurs as THEY NEVER BROKE!
  • 2 0
 @FaahkEet: There clearly have been many times that _some_ hangers do save mechs, and to deny that is discounting everyone else's experiences, literally the same thing you're complaining is happening to you.

Your experiences are also proving what others have said: that _some_ hangers are too strong and break mechs before the hanger breaks. Run with that instead of just whining about being picked on for being a hypocrite.

If you keep breaking mechs, maybe try scoring your hanger with a dremel or such. In the 7 speed era (and earlier), when replaceable hangers were rare, mech bolts were designed with a thin section in order to break away upon a large impact, in order to save the hanger and the mech. Worked reasonably well, similar concept might work for someone with a too-strong hanger.
  • 1 0
 @EricHarger: I was more talking about wide range 9 or 10 speeds like Microshift or Box.
  • 1 0
 @EricHarger: Riders were doing home-made 1x way before modern-style mid-drive e-bikes were even a thought. Manufacturers were doing it for frame stiffness and optimized suspension layouts before e-bikes were viable.

If you never broke/wore-out a front mech on an MTB, you didn't ride enough or enough trails.. Every one I've ever had eventually wore through one of both of the plates from the chain rubbing against it and scraping dirt and muck along.
  • 2 2
 @justinfoil: I never once said that hangers haven't saved RDs. I said in my experience they haven't. 3 RDs and 0 hangers in the past 4 years. I'm not being a hypocrite at all.
  • 3 0
 @EricHarger: You are exactly right. This is all down to big-cassette pulling strings behind the scenes.
  • 2 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: I've bent (straightened or replaced) several hangers on my current trail bike. Only derailleur I have damaged was a fluke*. I have yet to replace a derailleur from damage or wear** (I have 100,000 miles according to Strava)

*Riding my gravel bike parallel to some railroad tracks and a piece of rebar hooked my spokes, Wrapped around my wheel, and jammed in the derailleur. I was able to bend the cage back.

**My GX derailleur felt really sloppy, so I bought an X01 to replacement. No change in shifting performance, so I have a spare now
  • 2 0
 @TheRamma: Same, 22 Trek slash and XT 12sp, I fell while balancing and the UDH cracked, XT fine
  • 1 0
 @FaahkEet: I’ve got a GX mech that’s currently on my sons bike from 2016 that’s outlived three hangers. What derailleurs are you using?
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: 2 XT and 1 XTR. The XTR the cage blew up even though it looked like the body was hit first by the scuffs to it. 1 XT caught a tree in a turn rotating but the RD and the hanger to rotate from below the chainstay where it belonged to on top of the seatstay. Hanger was barely bent, damage to the frame and the RD 'worked' but would never shift to the smaller two cogs without being unable to use the larger cogs. The other XT not sure wear happened because I had to eject but it had to have been a side impact. RD wouldn't shift rift after that. Same bike/hanger for the XTs, different bike/hanger for the XTR.
  • 2 0
 Should have waited to proofread before submitting but hopefully you get the gist of it.
  • 1 0
 @A-HIGHLY-EDUCATED-PROFESSIONAL: 12spd hanger?? No such thing. Hanger specs haven't changed for donkeys years
  • 83 0
 Now we know what the SRAM UDH derailleur hanger "standard" was made for...
  • 32 0
 Very clever move from SRAM there
  • 27 11
 I was totally negatively propped when I said that the day they announced UDH. Now see what will happen.
  • 4 0
 @Paco77: Not as green as they are cabbage looking.
  • 11 9
 Getting new products SRAMmed down our throats.
  • 7 2
 Not surprised by the switch to flat top chains.....locking you in to a full drivetrain. They will push for a Sram specific BB shell system next, to 'unify' standards. Fair play to Sram they smell blood in the water and are taking advantage of it.
  • 2 3
 @deciduous: Yeah-and now you're getting downvotes for saying that you said so....
  • 2 0
 ..and the derailleur attachment in this way is patented. So there you go.
  • 1 2
 @watchmen: flat top chains don’t lock you into anything. It’s just a chain with a flat top for extra strength. It’s compatible with current eagle cassettes and derailleurs
  • 5 0
 @golefty: Apart from the different diameter rollers- totally identical.
  • 39 0
 "There's no review coming tomorrow" so a review is coming this afternoon?
  • 39 2
 I wish.
  • 5 0
 After the World champs ^^
  • 34 1
 Honestly not much to be mad about here, assuming the derailleur mounting points are replaceable. Sram made a new universal standard for hangers that’s been fairly widely accepted and now they are using that same mounting to make something that (hopefully) performs better. The wider mounting point makes sense for a stiffer mech, while hopefully being malleable enough to bend when it’s hit. Even if it doesn’t catch on, you’ll still have the option to go back to a standard udh and regular derailleur.
  • 7 0
 Agree. Just the fact that the body is more inboard and therefore more protected, a la Shimano, is a huge win.
  • 34 0
 Anyone know if the hanger can be swapped out once bent, or is it a coin toss between a new carbon frame and a top spec derailleur when it gets bumped?
  • 4 18
flag salespunk (Aug 23, 2022 at 13:10) (Below Threshold)
 Since it uses the UDH standard it has to be replaceable
  • 8 0
 @salespunk: Not necessarily.
  • 1 0
 @bkm303: yes the UDH hanger can be changed if you bend it
  • 1 0
 No hanger here. It can rotate in an impact like the udh can...if that helps?
  • 30 4
 I hate my AXS. Its great when its new but after some proper use with an enduro bike the derailleurs just keep getting play and dont shift properly anymore and you cant do anything about it as you can with mechanical drivetrains. At some point the parallelograms of the derailleurs start falling apart and you cant even get a single spare part. Went through 3 derailleurs in 1,5 seasons and never had problems with other derailleurs in the past. Also because the derailleur is quite heavy, it's much noisier as its slapping around in rough terrain.
  • 19 0
 Yes, the fact that there are no spare parts for those AXS derailleurs at all which makes them disposables is unbelievable
  • 7 1
 I have seen a lot of problems with GX, but XO1/XX1 have been really solid for me.
  • 9 1
 @salespunk: my first 2 were X01 and I do thrash my bike down a lot of mountains here in the alps but as Johsch said the disposability is disappointing and for my use it only makes things more complicated with no advantages.
  • 6 1
 @mirskeinereingefalln: agreed on spare parts. It is just stupid. As an FYI Sram also fully integrated the power meter on the road side with Red cranks which is asinine.
  • 5 1
 @salespunk: good to know. Don't buy a cheap $8k GX bike then but save up for a $10k+ XX1 build.
  • 9 0
 Not sure if it's entirely related, but this is probably worth a look:

www.mtbr.com/threads/attn-all-axs-drivetrain-owners.1207581

Could link to the reliability of the parallelogram.
  • 1 0
 @chaoscacca: That is amazing...
  • 3 0
 @Mac1987: wish brands & sram would spec/offer xx1 mechanical on builds
  • 2 0
 This is why i will never buy sram products
  • 2 0
 @bkm303: have you checked that M2.5 screw that supposed to be the pivots are actually present. Ot appears that AXS eagle derailleurs have been shipping without those bolts installed and it’s causing the pivots to move or fall out. Other than that there’s not much to replace on AXS derailleur except the pulley wheels and jockey pulley cage. If you break anything in the derailleur body it’s broken and you throw the derailleur away. So what spare parts are needed?
  • 3 0
 @JohSch: It's honestly sad how many parts are not serviceable in our industry that supposedly cares about the environment. An O-ring breaks on your forks damper? Gotta buy a whole new damper, no way you could replace that little rubber piece. Same with cassette teeth. We always wear the 3 smallest gears, just sell me those if you really care about saving the planet.
  • 1 0
 @chaoscacca: DUDE! Thank you so much! My x01 axs started acting up recently, and this looks like a superb fix.
  • 20 0
 I'm interested. The only time I've bent a hanger is when I was at Starbucks sipping on a latte and the wind blew my bike over onto the cobbles. I had my supermodel gf hold my latte while I picked up my bike and examined the XTR derailleur. Fortunately it was ok. But my latte got cold and this started a string of events that culminated in us missing our reservation at Dorsia that evening.
  • 3 0
 Which bike do you use to return videotapes?
  • 1 0
 @boozed: Any that can take an overnight bag from Jean-Paul Gaultier
  • 20 0
 that BMC looks clean af
  • 16 0
 That BMC is a prototype too, and completely different to the current model.
  • 5 0
 I looks epic Wink
  • 6 0
 I know! Looks great! Surprised there was no mention of it
  • 17 0
 Ended up in the comments again. I need to sort my life out.
  • 12 0
 Same.
  • 11 1
 Hopefully they keep the current 1 piece XX/XO eagle cassettes around, new one looks to have 3 alloy cogs like XTR which are gonna wear way faster than the steel cluster. Maybe they'll at least sell replacement alloy cogs separately like E13
  • 11 0
 So you break your frame or $800 derailleur instead of a $15 hangar? Sign me up.
  • 7 0
 How is the derailleur more inboard here? It not only now has half of its mounting device on the outside of the frame but it's position needs to correspond to the cassette, which has not moved. And does the whole derailluer now just break, since there's no replaceable hanger?
  • 5 0
 You don't understand, something now sticks out farther so the RD looks like it is more inboard, but is just as likely to be hit buy anything that doesn't smash your chainstay. /sarcasm
  • 10 0
 is santa cruz going to put this on their $15k megatower
  • 31 0
 No, entry level Santa Cruzes get NX.
  • 1 0
 @boozed: Megatower owner here...I lol'd
  • 7 0
 I always thought the derailleur hanger’s intended purpose was to bend/breakaway to mitigate any damage to the frame or derailleur. Wouldn’t a direct mount defeat that purpose?
  • 14 0
 They sell more deraileurs this way.
  • 7 1
 They're not even selling spares for AXS, serviceability and customer friendly solutions probably aren't their top priority?
  • 3 5
 The AXS clutch theoretically allows the derailleur to swing out of the way long before the hanger would bend. With that mechanism in play it probably eliminates the need of a hanger for most of all but the most violent impacts
  • 9 0
 @JohSch: they've given away so many free replacement Reverbs and Guide brakes, they feel they have the right to now make people pay for replacement derailleurs.
  • 4 0
 @Mac1987: haha, probably
  • 2 0
 @Jvisscher: more like new frames
  • 9 2
 will the clutch work though? have X01 AXS and never lost so many chains in my entire life, and the noise!! appears pinkbikes review of the new mega tower suffers the same as mine!
  • 4 0
 Same here. I’ve even dropped a chain with a MRP SxG chain guide!
  • 1 3
 @bkm303: ???? I have a 4 year old XX1 mechanical RD with clutch that functions like new.
No axs of mech rear mech I’ve worked on has had a clutch problem. They just work. Maybe the chain slap isn’t a derailleur problem but specific to some bikes
  • 1 0
 @golefty: I can push the derailleur into it’s locked position with my pinky finger. They do it for smoother shifting and longer battery life I’m guessing.
  • 2 1
 @somebody-else: ive warrantied 3 GX AXS and a X01 AXS which they sent as a good will replacement. the clutch is just a bit poo unfortunately i think, hopefully theyll get round it the adjustable clutch patent one day, as the functonality of them is great
  • 1 0
 @MartyMcfly2810: my local shop won’t even try… :-/
  • 6 0
 Unless SRAM moves to a somehow either adjustable or replaceable clutch (I know, patents…) this derailleur doesn‘t solve the main problem I‘ve had with SRAM drivetrains in the last couple of years. My GX AXS clutch lasted five rides and is in for warranty claim right now…
  • 6 0
 How is it going to shift more quietly with alloy pulleys? Those make for a much louder driveline on every bike I have installed them on. They have some other benefits, but they are definitely more noisy.
  • 7 0
 Can sram just make the clutch serviceable and adjustable on their cable derailleurs? I don't give a flying frenchie about robots shifting my gears.
  • 9 0
 That BMC paint job tho
  • 5 0
 Shimano 9-speed Saint rear derailleurs had "axle mounting" too. If Shimano ever revamps the group, maybe we'll see that feature return.
  • 3 0
 I was hoping someone else would mention that. And it was such a great idea that it was desirable for, what? Maybe three or four months? And don't forget Hone had it too.
  • 4 1
 "It's likely that the new derailleur will only be compatible with frames that can run a Universal Derailleur Hanger"

that first bike is a supercaliber that DOESNT run a UDH in its current form....
  • 5 0
 It actually does @mm732. There's one on mine rn
  • 2 0
 Though this was coming as AXS has had discounts applied to it for a few months. I wonder if it will just be the top groups will get it or if they will roll it down to GX from day 1. Will the UDH mount work for cable pull... cant imagine it will.
  • 3 0
 Only benefit that would be worth it to me is a stronger clutch to help with chainslap noise. The rest...i don't really care. Upside for everyone else is maybe current gen sram 12 speed eagle cassettes will go on sale?
  • 3 0
 I really love my AXS setup, but I run an XT cassette. The jump from 52t to 42t is just too much. Hope they fix that with this new setup so I can run all SRAM. It does look like it.
  • 1 0
 That picture looks like a fixed cassette... as in the second cog could be a 46 if the top one is a 52? Cause yes, that jump is insane!
  • 6 0
 UDH = Trojan horse.

That said, can hardly wait to buy one!
  • 7 0
 It was a truly brilliant maneuver.
  • 4 2
 I only ride Shimano but I have to admit Sram are the ones who seem to always bring the advancements and clever stuff!? Shimano is just falling behind more and more…although their simple stuff works I guess…maybe this is their attitude!?
  • 3 1
 They don’t care about mountain bikes anymore, they’ve stopped innovating, they’re always late usually by years and always with a substandard product and they refuse to sort any of the issues that have been plaguing their products for the last ten years if anything they’ve got worse. They’re worth five or six times the amount Sram is worth, if they wanted to they could still complete with sram, I just think mountain biking is such a niche industry and they make so much money elsewhere they’re happy to forfeit the market and let sram dominate.
  • 3 0
 This doesn't seem clever to me. This just seems like a great way for SRAM to sell more replacement derailleurs.
  • 5 0
 The derailleur looks ok. That new cassete colourway looks bad AF.
  • 2 0
 Question for the Hive: is the issue w/slappy chains on AXS mtb derailleurs due to reduced spring tension from the factory (to save on battery?) or from increased spring wear due to weight/design of the unit?
  • 1 0
 Derailleurs will still be spendy, wouldn't be surprised if the clutch is still too weak and can't be adjusted. If SRAM offers a GX mechanical version of this with more (and adjustable) clutch tension it'd be great, but I doubt it.
  • 1 0
 There's a reason why the GX, X01 and XX1 AXS upgrade kits have been on-sale on and off (for pretty good prices too) over the past 2-3 months...SRAM is unloading the old inventory.

Also, we all knew that the open-source UDH was NOT going to be a free-lunch. SRAM is pretty smart in trying to get everyone to adopt to this all-new open-source standard...only to then drop products that are patent protected that other manufacturers cannot adopt. Making their original UDH mostly proprietary other than for older tech competitor parts. Very smart. Sneaky. But smart none-the-less.
  • 1 0
 e-thirteen 12sp cassette with a 9-tooth cog. unless the chain fails and you are unable to fix it, run a brand new drivetrain until it is trash and then replace the top cluster (e-thirteen), chain and maybe chainring. opinions are like armpits. What are these chain checkers everybody is talking about?
  • 6 1
 Muh gearbox
  • 1 0
 MmmHmm
  • 3 0
 Can we talk about that cassette instead?? Its 12 speeds, but that second gear looks like a 46 instead of a 42!
  • 1 0
 That would be so, so good!
  • 1 0
 Can we talk about the chain too? It's that flat top that doesn't play with anything else in the market?
  • 2 0
 to the guy in the blue shirt with the giant gut-why on earth would you tuck your shirt in to your belt? asking for a friend...
  • 1 0
 @flipoffthemonkeys fanny pack maybe?
  • 2 0
 Can we please just get a lightweight, compact 12 speed cassette with a shorter cage axs derailleur? Not everyone needs/wants a 50t or higher cassette.
  • 1 0
 Can you run 10-45 Shimano (after forking over $ for driver)? Works with SRAM mechanical, don't know about AXS.
  • 1 0
 @bikewriter: I'm amazingly surprised at how well the XX1 AXS shifts with a Garbaruk cassette on a Microspline driver (so I assume Shimano spacing?).
  • 2 2
 @bikewriter: That does work, but the shimano 10-45 cassette is heavy as hell. You're better off just running the massive sram one
  • 5 0
 @mrkumro: Ah, I was thinking the compact gear spacing was the priority, but as for weight, the xtr 10-45 is 3 grams heavier than the x01 10-50.
  • 2 1
 @bikewriter: Yeah, that xtr cassette is a tank. I have seen that Rotor makes a 12 speed cassette with a couple different ranges. I just can't find any reports of it works ok with axs.
  • 2 0
 Can we stop developing drivetrain systems with a flappy flimsy piece of metal at the back and maybe focus on something actually a bit more robust?
  • 1 0
 If anyone is interested, Jack Moir shows the drivetrain in his latest video, understandably gives no info, but can get a good look at it from there. Controller/shifter has also been updated, a lot smaller.
  • 4 2
 At least they didn't call it the Derailleur Universal Hanger. That'd be DUmB. Wink
  • 2 0
 Hot bike parts and then I see that blue shirt belly and I can't stop staring...oh baby...
  • 1 0
 I'm totally good with my SRAM GX drivetrain. It is solid and using it with a Shimano XT cassette. Lol. Can't even remember when I changed my cables last.
  • 2 0
 That dude's gut isn't the only unreleased thing floating around in this article.
  • 2 0
 Why are metal jockey wheels "a welcome addition"?
Theyre basically the same as plastic ones, but worse
  • 2 0
 can we talk about the cassette? i like that is not all black, it wont show wear well which is nice.
  • 2 0
 First photo looks like there’s a small hole below the derailleur/hanger junction. Hopefully replaceable.
  • 3 0
 53t sprocket?
  • 2 1
 Digging the bullseye cassette. Plz hold while I rattle can my 11-46 to look like that.
  • 2 0
 Clever placement of the work stand.
  • 3 1
 Looks like 12 speed to me.
  • 2 0
 Okay but the cassette looks clean af
  • 3 0
 the BMC is clean af
  • 1 0
 Zooms in to flat top chain... wonders why all Sram chains are not like this if it shifts better for 12 Speed?
  • 2 0
 Looks like they changed (fixed?) their cassette gearing!
  • 2 0
 Is this just a new take on the old Shimano Hone groupset?
  • 2 0
 That's what I thought I've got two saint mechs that are direct mount to the axle?
  • 2 0
 @dotman: I forgot about the Saint mechs
  • 1 0
 Seems like frames will have constraints on the thickness of the dropout in addition to being UDH compatible.
  • 2 0
 No word on the prototype BMC tho
  • 2 0
 That new BMC looks pretty Epic
  • 2 0
 It may look a little more Epic than before but that is still a multilink design.
  • 1 0
 The cassette is interesting. Seems the big 3 are aluminum the spacing looks more even. Wonder if its a 10-50 or a 10-52
  • 1 0
 Take sensitive part that dangles and tuck it more inboard when there is risk to damage? Their logic checks out.
  • 1 0
 I just want that silver polished integrated dropper-post from the BMC prototype!
  • 1 0
 Hmmm that probably wouldn't work with a Split Pivot / Trek ABP full sus frame...
  • 2 5
 Sleek, sexy, and really cool! I'm sure the consumer version won't look as good. That cassette is drool-worthy, I'm sure it costs over $700 though. Battery placement is much better than the current iteration. PB let us know when they've fixed the AXS Reverb posts.
  • 7 1
 Wait, what's wrong with the AXS reverb? I've had no issues with mine in the past year and I bought it used on buy sell.
  • 3 0
 @pisgahgnar: The position of the battery can be problematic on some full-sus bikes. Let the air out of your shock, slam your post all the way down, and see if the rear tire rubs the battery at full compression.
  • 5 0
 @pisgahgnar: Berm Peak on YT made a video / hack video about it
  • 3 0
 @cgreaseman: Oh that issue. Yeah it's a problem I guess but as Seth admitted really only an issue for a few frames in the smallest size with the post slammed. That's such a small group. Why would I slam my post just to test if it rubs when I set my bike up for riding with the post out of the seat tube slightly?

But, I'm sure they can figure something out for the next gen.
  • 2 0
 @pisgahgnar: I don't think they meant slam it in the frame, they meant drop it all the way.

Also, Seth's bike hit the battery quite a bit, would likely still hit even with the post slightly out like 10-15mm.
  • 1 0
 It kills me that a derailleur wouldn’t work with all derailleur hangers
  • 1 0
 IIRC from Sram’s patents, the hanger screws onto the derailleur so they can also make a standard version in addition to this UDH Ultra Boost version.
  • 1 0
 Is there enough clearance for a shoe larger than size 8?
  • 1 0
 Just realized this has a flat top chain too.
  • 2 0
 Apparently i missed the second half of thw article… sheesh
  • 2 0
 Big Monkey Cheese
  • 1 0
 2 closeup pictures of the derailleur at brujula Wink
  • 2 3
 Hey guys, get onboard with out UDH! Syke!
  • 4 5
 Shimano where you at?
  • 20 2
 2019
  • 5 0
 @Jvisscher: oh do they have something new coming out? Exciting!
  • 6 3
 Shimano was slower in releasing their versions of 1x and then 12 speed, but their stuff was/is better than SRAM.

That said, Shimano 11 speed rear derailleurs were waaaaay more durable than the 12 speed ones. Hopefully they don't chase SRAM further into making stuff with more features and less reliability.
  • 4 1
 @wyorider: Shimano has it's fair share of issues when it comes to 12 speed...I would even say that SrAM is more reliable when it comes to 12 speed groupset.
  • 3 0
 I really just want more wireless options. A bit more competition, drive those prices down.....ha
  • 1 4
 Now with type 4 oxymoron clutch, no thanks!
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