SRAM Commits to Greater Gender Parity & 'More Women to the Start Line'

Mar 2, 2020
by SRAM  


PRESS RELEASE: SRAM

SRAM is joining the global effort in supporting International Women’s Day on March 8, 2020, by outlining our commitments to pursue gender parity in the sport of cycling. We are adding our voice to the #EachForEqual conversation by endeavoring to get more women to any of cycling’s analogous start lines, including riding, racing, advocacy, and employment. We are also appealing directly to athletes, industry professionals, and customers to help make a difference. For 2020, we have made four commitments to support these efforts.


Community: A long-term commitment to the SRAM Women’s Program, now in its fourth year of operation. The program’s mission is to get more women on bikes through ambassador support and development, education programming, skills clinics, and by embracing peripheral communities at events. We have a full-time team member dedicated to this program, who serves beginner to advanced cyclists in both road and mountain disciplines. The SRAM Women’s Program has grown its reach to participants through events by 45% year over year and aims to continue this growth trajectory through 2020 and beyond.


Work: Since 2015, we have empowered women within the business to develop and lead the SRAM Women’s Leadership Committee (SWLC). The group was founded to attract, develop, and retain more women to work at SRAM. The SWLC is responsible for creating global mentorship opportunities for all SRAM team members, including addressing the challenge of creating a more inclusive and diverse workforce. Our global workforce today is 41% female. Our U.S. team has grown the number of women by 11.5% in the past 3 years.


Youth: Increased support to the National Interscholastic Cycling Association (NICA) through 2023. NICA provides entry points in cycling to youth in North America to learn the ins and outs of riding bicycles and supporting youth racing development. SRAM will actively be involved in helping NICA reach its goal of 33% female rider participation through collaborations with the Girls Ride Together Program (aka GRiT).


Athletes: We will continue to endeavor to support female athletes and teams in at least equal proportion to men.

bigquotesSRAM believes that achieving gender parity in cycling is imperative for the long-term success of the industry as a whole. And our commitments will be sustained well beyond March 8.Sara Jarrell, Marketing Coordinator of Women’s Programs at SRAM




266 Comments

  • 387 173
 f*ck gender parity. I want the most qualified talented professionals making parts for my bicycle. I don’t give a f*ck if it’s a male, female, memale, or a gmale. Just make the best parts for the money. And gtfo with all this privelaged bs.
  • 81 60
 Boom. Yes.
  • 188 39
 And what if the most talented qualified professionals end up in an entirely different career path before they even consider this one due to the perception they have of a male dominated industry? Ok yes in the short term you want the best products made by the best people. But in the long term these kind of trail blazers will encourage future talent to follow in their footsteps. Or maybe they will crash and burn. But good on them for trying.
  • 67 51
 @chasejj: whoa dude, you sound like a 58 year old white male there.
  • 33 13
 @chasejj: I wouldn't switch brands over annoying virtue signaling. But I will say shimano stuff just plain works all the time.
  • 160 3
 @johnnyboy11000: Exactly. Growing up in my household we were all huge Formula 1 fanatics, brothers & sisters together. One of my sisters was absolutely fascinated with the engineering, aerodynamic & mechanical side of the cars. My dad, a former amateur rally driver, taught her to strip & rebuild engines from motorcycles through to Commercial HGVs before she had left school. In the wider world of further education & employment all she faced was a barrage of negativity as she tried to pursue a career because she was a girl and "it wasn't her environment".
Eventually she took a sales job for a vehicle manufacturer as it was deemed appropriate place by a male led industry.
Thankfully attitudes within motorsports changed and now her daughter, my niece, spurred on by the issues my sister faced & a change in gender attitudes, is employed as a Power Unit Engineer by F1/Formula-E team not because she is female, because she is the best person for that job.
  • 15 57
flag dirtologist (Mar 2, 2020 at 12:03) (Below Threshold)
 says the white dude
  • 49 17
 @Ohiomtbwannab just lol if you think a majority of places are staffed with the most qualified person who interviewed. may as well hire women regardless of that. holy f*ck PB got some incel haters up in here.
  • 11 8
 @tegnamo:
What is an incel?
  • 10 30
flag hamncheez (Mar 2, 2020 at 12:18) (Below Threshold)
 @johnnyboy11000: there is no evidence that happens in the cycling industry. The evidence that it happens in other industries is dubious at best.
  • 13 12
 @johnnyboy11000: “Perception” shouldn’t be a consideration in anyone’s decision making. Ignore pre conceived ideas and this entire subject is a non-issue.
  • 11 2
 @jclnv: I agree with you. Unfortunately preconceived ideas are literally all we have to fall back on when we are making choices that aren't backed up by experience.
  • 12 22
flag SmashySmashy (Mar 2, 2020 at 12:40) (Below Threshold)
 @johnnyboy11000: What is is with pprogressive types and their refusal to link to actual proof of their assertions.That's one woman's subjective opinion. There are no statistics or any other corroborating evidence. If you're going to make a sweeping denouncement of someone else's proposition, at least justify your counter-argument with some actual facts.
  • 6 7
 @brytar: Seems racist
  • 45 22
 Equality feels like oppression to the privileged.
  • 2 0
 *or a gmail
  • 10 7
 Lets start with a women specific groupset.
  • 16 7
 @johnnyboy11000: ? How is a single article considered economic evidence? Its a editorial from a woman relating her experiences in the Middle East, where it is illegal for women to drive cars. What does that have to do with the West?
  • 1 0
 @tegnamo: spot on my friend ????
  • 5 2
 i don't vote by color, sex parts, hair length nor do i shop that way. i will pay extra for products made by a non enemy 1st and foremost.
  • 14 5
 @SmashySmashy:
All I see from either side here is anecdotal evidence, and funnily enough, ZERO input from an actual female, so cool it with your holier-than-thou attitude.

My girlfriend has commented multiple times how she finds bike shops to be fairly intimidating, male dominated places. She's right, they are.
  • 7 2
 @Dropthedebt: My wife also watched Formula 1 because my father in law was a big fan. She ended up getting bachelors and masters degrees in Mechanical Engineering yet she decided not to work in the industry because she feels much more fulfilled as a High School teacher.
  • 8 15
flag JohanG (Mar 2, 2020 at 14:47) (Below Threshold)
 @johnnyboy11000: why would you want someone in an industry who wants it so little as to be intimidated by the prospect of working with men?
  • 6 0
 @konrad1972: my niece has said in a few years, when she is ready to stop the excessive travelling & have children, she will move in to the higher education sector to help a new generation progress.
  • 12 3
 @hamncheez: I'm not making the argument from an economic position. I'm nowhere near qualified enough to make a statement based on that. My point was that nowadays more and more women are considering careers in a traditionally male dominated industry, ie construction, because they are inspired by others before them who bucked the trend. Which is true, and anecdotal evidence is sufficient to prove this. Whether that means construction companies are worse off or better off financially is not a question I can answer. I do think it is better for society as a whole though. Just my opinion.
  • 6 7
 @johnnyboy11000: anecdotal is not evidence. Its never enough to conclude things when looking at an entire industry.

Women have increased their participation in the labor force in all areas in the last 30 years, mostly due to declining birth rates. However, if you look at female penetration (hehe) in top tier professional careers, and only look at women who were never married (a great way to filter out the cost of pregnancy, child care, or anticipated child care) the rates are the same they've been for 50 years.
  • 30 10
 @johnnyboy11000 and @Dropthedebt get it. I'm a teacher. Boys and girls are equally excited about math and science in my school, and the girls do just as well as the boys academically. So why is engineering and the sciences dominated by men? Because society discourages equally talented girls from going into it.

So if you want the BEST engineers designing your bike parts, the question you need to ask yourself is: What can society do to stop discouraging women from going into engineering and the sciences? Because half of humanity, who is on average equally as bright as men, is being discouraged from designing your bike parts.
  • 12 2
 @JohanG: because I believe that you can be intelligent and capable of meaningful contribution, while still feeling intimidated by certain things
  • 7 9
 @gumbytex: That simply isn't true. Thats not what the evidence shows. If you take the most egalitarian societies, in this case the Nordic countries and certain parts of Israel (egalitarian for gender disparity) the evidence shows a stronger disparity between the professions men and women choose compared to the USA, not a weaker one. A notable example is the nursing profession, its as high as 20:1 female to male in these economies.
  • 13 3
 Yo dudes don't get your feelings hurt about this. They are just trying to sell more bikes to women. Men, boys and man-boys will still be able to purchase bikes and cycling accesories!
  • 5 3
 @hamncheez: show us some peer-reviewed research that corroborates what you just said
  • 4 1
 Hey @SRAM, how about sharing some of this data? I think we’d all be interested to see the effect of these types of policies. If you’re interested in sharing, let me know (any other economists out there that want to co-author that paper). This could make a great setting for an empirical paper on gender and innovation.
  • 19 4
 @Hayek: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox

It's very well known research and easily visible in any kindergarten class where boys are clearly interested in things and girls are interested in people/social hierarchies. There are outliers as have been mentioned above but on the whole men and women are, surprise!, different.

So there you go, what we’re talking about here isn’t equality of opportunity, it’s equality of outcome. A discriminatory system that insures a suboptimal result.
  • 2 1
 @JohanG: Fair point.
  • 2 2
 @hamncheez: Correct.
  • 6 2
 @jclnv: I’m with you on equality of opportunity. Also, thanks for the effort to share some actual research on the topic and not just opinion. Ignoring the endogeneity issues in the linked study, it still doesn’t confound the point made by @johnnyboy11000. Let’s assume that at the mean, men are more inclined to be engineers — this doesn’t preclude women from being as good or better engineers, it just means that there are fewer of them. If a firm is interested in developing a culture that attracts those exceptional female athletes/employees, kudos to them — they’ll end up with talented people that their competitor won’t.
  • 3 5
 @gumbytex: Look up how the sexes choose specific career paths when given free choice. What you are noticing is your own personal bias.
  • 2 3
 I think you misunderstood the word parity - and then just went ahead and replaced it privileged. Did you even read the article?

Also, go back to school.
  • 3 1
 @johnnyboy11000: Anecdotal evidence is too easily manipulated/ mis-remembered to be sufficient to prove anything. When you understand that then you'll realise why it's so important to gather facts in order to report on anything correctly.
  • 3 5
 @gumbytex: Actuallly it's proven that males are more inclined to go into these fields, and more males have the requisite talents for them. Also, the females who do have the required abilities tend to be more rounded in their abilities, opening up far more options for them.
  • 4 4
 @notthatfast: I see. Do you let your mom pick out what clothes you're going to wear each morning? Or does your imaginary girlfriend choose the feminine hygiene products you two share? Contrary to what people like you think, women are no more virtuous than men, and hey are definitely not the ultimate arbiters of what passes for the *correct* truth. Nor do they have a monopoly on either holding the only valid opinion or any particular insight into the challenges they face. In fact, very often it is the very people who are faced with a situation who cannot correctly identify the issue. And that's a human problem- which is why we depend on facts when making judgements (Or we used to at least).
Case in point: We've all been intimidated by bike shop staff, it's about as universal as an experience can get! We're talking to people with far more knowledge about a subject we're considering sinking a great deal of time and money into, and we'd very much like to make the best decision and if possible, avoid looking like an idiot. It's the very same when we bring our bikes back, complaining about how this and that won't work- and it gets fixed in 20 seconds and we get a look of 'Was that so hard?'
Ask yourself: If the world hadn't told your girlfriend that all those mean mens were out to hold her back, would her ego immediately jump to the conclusion that her local bikeshop was a bastion of poor male behavior, or would she reach a more reasonable conclusion such as 'These guys are busy and don't have time to be dealing with things that I should be able to understand/ fix myself'.
  • 4 2
 @gumbytex: it is also possible young women choose to pursue other fields of study because they have other interests. Not everything is society's fault.
  • 5 4
 @JockoJones: Well, they're actually taking money spent by men (mostly) and re-directing it to special interest groups (in this case women) solely because of some innate characterictic, and then they're cynically exploiting that fact as a marketing opportunity. They're actually denying men twice- once for a potential pool of sponsorship opportunities such as riders/demo days/camps/ races etc. that would be proportional to their representation as customers (assuming they had open criteria for such things), and again because that money could otherwise have been spent on product development or simply knocked of the RRP (again, a net benefit for all their customers and not just a select few).
  • 7 4
 @johnnyboy11000: EXACTLY! I won’t open a rabbit hole, but doesn’t this sound eerily similar to certain privileged people telling repressed cultures to just “go get ‘em!” now that the playing field is “even”? Forget those hundreds of years of discrimination and the biases that current culture is built upon...
  • 4 2
 @DirtbagMatt: Contrast that perspective with the countless hundred of millions dead from communism because they were deemed to be more successful than the mandated productivity of the masses, and the privileged couldn't have that.
The only thing remotely impressive about communism is it's ability to murder so many, and destroy so much in so little time.
  • 2 5
 @tegnamo: If we hired the most capable person....well, I am not so sure how many female firefighters there would be......but, if my home is burning, please, send in the STRONGEST MAN to drag my carcass out, thank you.
  • 3 3
 @hamncheez: Sir, please. You have to understand. Facts and reality have no bearing on the emotions and delusions of the "woke". Simply by asking a question we must now flame you, decry your every thought and insist that you are fired from your job.....now, where again do you work? Rosie Odonell and Whoopie would like to know (they will be waiting in the buffet for your answer).
  • 10 5
 When I read this article yesterday it inspired me to share with you all a personal & relevant family situation. I did this in the hope of showing how, in only a few short years, our attitudes & perceptions of each other & our capabilities have changed for the better.
Today it is difficult to see a changed attitude. Today it is easier to see we are more divided that ever. Today I see hate magnified & spread further than ever. Hate more anonymous than ever, and in that anonymity, those spreading the hate of difference feel more justified, more empowered, more righteous in their actions than ever before. No longer does hate have to come face to face with the object of hate & fear the repercussions of that hate. Today, hate can be directed anywhere, at anyone, at anything, at anytime from the anonymity of a smartphone or computer keyboard... all without a single care of the harm that hate may cause.
We do not have to live like this. We should not live like this. Instead we should work to understand our differences... our difference of gender, our difference of opinions, our difference of circumstance; We must learn to reap the joys of our differences... our difference of race, our difference of cultures, our difference of ideas... and we should do all this without hate.
We must all understand that our differences are the thing that drives our species forward to a better future. When we learn to understand & accept the value of our differences, we will find that ultimately, we are all the same.
  • 6 2
 @Dropthedebt: This is f---ing rad! Thanks
  • 6 4
 @Dropthedebt: well said mate. I sometimes wonder if these people ever grew out of the infant school mentality of "I don't want to play with girls!"
  • 4 1
 @Hayek: Here you go- a study that used data from 475,000 teenagers across 67 countries found that "countries with greater gender equality (such as Finland, Norway, and Sweden) see a smaller proportion of women taking degrees in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics"

www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girls-3848156-Feb2018
  • 4 2
 @johnnyboy11000: How do you guys confuse "you shouldn't discriminate when hiring engineers" with "we don't want to play with girls"?

I have only daughters (still very young). I'm doing everything I can to make sure they have the opportunity to learn cycling. I want them to do wrestling, BJJ, BMX racing, etc. But I'm not going to force them. I can already tell the oldest, while she likes riding her strider bike, has far less interest than her male cousin of the same age.

You can't try social engineering and expect good outcomes. What you can do is fight for equality of opportunity, but once you start trying to manage other peoples life choices you're going to have a bad time.
  • 3 1
 @hamncheez: tell us what the findings of this paper are. What are the endogeneity issues? Do Geary & Stoets findings indicate that women demonstrated inferior ability in STEM fields? Have the econometrics been replicated using Geary & Stoets original dataset?
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: nobody is social engineering or forcing anybody to do anything. I have a young daughter who enjoys a wide variety of activities too, and the last thing I want is for her to think that certain things (e.g. football) might not be enjoyable because "boys do it". that feeling extends to any situation where somebody might decide against doing something for the same reasons, whether right or wrong.

That comment i made was not about you, in fact although we clearly disagree you still seem to have at least given it some thought. I was talking about some others who clearly are threatened by the thought of women joining in.
  • 4 1
 @hamncheez: I have a 6 year old girl too. I think men without this direct experience are far more likely to be from the ‘end the patriarchy’ mentality. I also find their lack of interest in men working in the paediatric care fields very odd.

I could go on and explain the clear evolutionary advantage women have in society up to 35 years old or so but I’m sure that would baffle the equality of outcome mob too.
  • 3 1
 @Hayek: ? I've said nothing about aptitude. Waki has suggested that, and there is some evidence for spatial reasoning being easier for men, but the research is new and I don't think its mature enough to use for any real world conclusions. What is very established by decades of research is that men and women, on average, have different preferences in occupations.
  • 2 5
 Bore off virtuous white knight @Dropthedebt:
  • 1 4
 “The patriarchy” haha yes of course. @jclnv:
  • 4 3
 @gumbytex: Can you give specific examples how society discourages women from being plumbers of car designers? In my life I only heard a handfull people saying "that's" not woman's job. I never heard a man saying I don't want to be a nurse because it is not man's job.
  • 3 1
 @JockoJones: You might be right. If they want to make more profit of women then definitively SRAM needs to acquire a clothing outfit as well. The first thing that my wife did when I bought her a bike, was buy bunch of riding clothes. Last time she rode the bike was like 5 months ago and I have no idea when will she ride again. That is despite my constant encouragement and borderline begging.
  • 2 1
 @Ohiomtbwannab:

....so as long as it has the word Male in there somewhere?

-Asking for a fungus.
  • 1 1
 @Ohiomtbwannab: Thank you for being logical and stating the facts
  • 2 2
 @CrispyNuggs:
Thanks for sharing that. I'm a resilient kind of guy so making that type of comment doesn't bother me personally.
It show more about your own character than it does mine. tup
  • 4 2
 @jclnv: Good points made.
One of women's greatest currencies is youth.
A young man is considered worthless unless he has done something.
A young woman? Society values and rewards her simply for existing.
This is how it is, is it fair? I dunno but people have had thousands of years to figure it out, yet now suddenly stupid people want to turn it upside down cuz they know better?
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: nursing at the RN level is about 9:1 female to male.
  • 153 44
 I picture a horde of incels suddenly waking, wiping the hot pocket and cheeto crumbs off their chests, and furiously pounding away at a keyboard at this very instant.
  • 22 8
 To be fair those folks probably aren't out even riding a bike Wink Nor do they have any idea what SRAM is. Unless they changed the name to something like "SheRAM".
  • 30 7
 @gumbytex: I guess you skipped wiping yourself down before posting in order to have the first word.
  • 4 2
 What's an incels???
  • 27 42
flag ClaytonMarkin (Mar 2, 2020 at 11:14) (Below Threshold)
 @jjhobbs: Anyone who disagrees with social justice droning
  • 6 9
 @ClaytonMarkin: lol,goddit, cheers
  • 16 1
 @ClaytonMarkin: ahh, actually I just looked it up.. there's a tad more to it than that, and it's all a bit sadder, thanks for the lesson though 'bro
  • 5 6
 Best comment I've ever read on PB.
  • 15 7
 I imagined a load of bearded, urbanites sipping soy lattes saying “Yes! End the cycling industry patriarchy!!!”.
  • 1 14
flag jcklondon (Mar 2, 2020 at 14:54) (Below Threshold)
 God bless those incels covered in hot pocket crumbs and cheeto dust complaining about fairness, without their sacrifice bridges would have collapsed, our planes would regularly fall from the sky and any meaningful achievement in sport would be attainable by a some loser like you @gumbytex
  • 6 9
 I actually ride over 4000 miles a year including commuting and use SRAM products. After reading this and when the components start wearing out I will probably start switching to SHIMANO, as they seem to concentrate having the best people to do the job and no following some politically correct dogma to please the public.
  • 9 5
 @konrad1972: f*ck me mate. That's just pathetic
  • 7 1
 @johnnyboy11000: It’s not untrue though. Do you honestly think SRAM are doing this to produce better products or is it a PR move reflecting the political climate of the times?
  • 13 4
 @jclnv: why not both? And what's wrong with a PR move if it includes rather than excludes people?
  • 5 1
 @johnnyboy11000: Well as has already been shown above, the majority of women do not gravitate towards these fields. By excluding a majority of applicants to enforce equality of outcome you’ll end up with suboptimal products.
  • 2 2
 People who don't understand why @gumbytex is a loser and his statement is way f*cked up just try the shoe on the other foot: Go mock women who complain when men are awarded roles simple because they're men. Laugh at her because she is clearly only upset at being single, covered in cup-cake crumbs and cat hairs. Furiously pounding away at her keyboard this very instant, incensed about having spent a decade training in her profession and then denied a role because of no more female spots are left and, oh yeah, they'll be taking a man with a quarter of her experience.
  • 3 2
 @jclnv: nobody is enforcing equality of outcome. This isn't a scenario where there are people applying for a job and now only women need apply. It's attempting to address an imbalance which may or may not be caused by latent attitudes towards gender roles in the workplace, by encouraging the under-represented party to get involved more.

And p.s. In case you weren't already aware, the majority of applicants are excluded for every job.
  • 70 12
 I got an idea! how about removing all gender related references from your marketing, then just targeting getting kids on bikes!? perpetuating bias isn't the way you're going to undo any bias, if there is any to begin with.
  • 53 3
 If I was trying to sell something and found that 50% of the population...call them "Flarkenharvens"....was buying a fair amount of product but the other 50%...call them "Garkenmarkens".... was buying almost nothing, I'd probably invest more marketing towards the Garkenmarkens. The Flarkenharvens don't have nearly the growth potential and already know a lot about my product and see tons of other Flarkenharvens using it. Given the possibility of expansion for the Garkenmarken, those marketing dollars would probably go much farther and as we know from the Flarkenharvens, it helps if they can easily imagine themselves using the product. But that's only be cause my motivation is to fully serve 100% of the market. I might not care about the Garkenmarkens if I had some conscious or unconscious bias that caused me to behave irrationally towards them.

*note Flarkenharvens and Garkenmarkens are entirely fictional and bear no resemblance any persons real or imagined.
  • 11 20
flag conoat (Mar 2, 2020 at 12:07) (Below Threshold)
 @Sardine: except for the fact that ignoring the men(I shortenened your made up name becuase i really don't want to type it 31 times), and shifting all of the ad dollars to women, will ultimately erode the the market you have already established with them. It's a shell game that ultimately has more potential for loss than it does gain. Marketing isn't simply about growth. It's about smart growth. You don't satisfy shareholders with % gains unless the gains are in the correct areas.

the hard numbers say that women spend several TIMES less on MTB related products than men do. It's around 4:1, and that's of similar age and income levels. if gaining 2 women into the sport costs you 1 male customer, you have just shot yourself in the foot.
  • 30 1
 @conoat: I missed the part where SRAM announced they are "ignoring men". Including women is not the same thing. I agree your imaginary scenario sounds really stupid for SRAM but that is not at all what is happening.

Right now on PB I see SRAM's logo underneath some dude doing a tailwhip for Crankworx. Santa Cruz and Yeti have had female specific brands for years and on their site's front page I see a combined 12 dudes and one girl (...and an ebike! Yikes!) What is your business outcome for: continue mostly what they've been doing and throw a few more % at a massive potential market? Maybe we can chill out on the MTB apocalypse?
  • 1 9
flag chasejj (Mar 2, 2020 at 13:39) (Below Threshold)
 @conoat: Bingo
  • 8 11
 @Sardine: Just make the best product and they will come. Male or Female. But men will come 4:1 and no amount of SJW virtue signaling will alter that.
  • 7 1
 @chasejj: Simply making "the best product" doesn't work. Everyone has different budgets, uses and expectations. If men will truly come 4:1 and that's the only market you target, then you are missing out on a huge segment of the market.
  • 4 1
 @Paddock22: I've been in this sport in the retail side, engineering/production side and just participating side for going on 35 years. 4:1 is probably including road riders. MTB is probably 8:1.
It is what it is. Always has been. Every MFG and retailer has been trying to alter this market in some fashion for the whole time. It just doesn't shift much.
  • 5 7
 @Sardine: How will they ignore men. Very simple. Next time they have an opening for an engineering position the amount of male applicants will probably be much higher than female ones. Yet to fulfill their agenda they will hire a woman even thou she might not be the most qualified.
  • 2 4
 @konrad1972: Exactly.
  • 10 2
 @conoat: Can you be the 1 male that we lose by marketing to & gaining 2 more women in the sport?
  • 3 3
 @mmmurrow: More than that. But you won't get the 2 women. Just not gonna happen.
  • 2 3
 @Sardine: your position is one where you assume Sram's marketing budget is infinite. if you can show that to be true, I will recant my statement. Otherwise, if you increase the marketing in one area, that money has to come from a different area.
  • 4 8
flag Hayek (Mar 2, 2020 at 18:50) (Below Threshold)
 @conoat: SRAM doesn’t have shareholders. Privately-held firm.
  • 8 1
 @Hayek: Private does not mean 'no shareholders'. It just means the person(s) or group(s) who are owner(s) don't own public shares or have approval from a public facing board.
  • 52 1
 What could possibly go wrong beneath this article?
  • 32 9
 Today the Swedish Ministry of Health announced that schools received an order to no longer provide vegan meals in school restaurants because all kids need to receive nutritious meals and according to them vegan diet is nutrient poor. For a brief moment I became a cell for the devil himself, The kind of laughter that came out of my chest and mouth was rather odd. Oddly evil. Oh the amount of people who must have gotten offended...
  • 5 6
 In late evening update, Ministry of Heath received so much butthurt vegan protests, they said they will reconsider. I am actually against it myself, Who would not like to know there are kids that are less developed than theirs, come oooon!
  • 7 7
 @WAKIdesigns: In my house we offset it with a strictly carnivore diet. Expensive but tasty.
  • 9 4
 @chasejj: I have as much respect to paleo folks as I have to vegans... please help yourself. If you have an autoimmune disease and it helped and you want to share, then yeah, but if you think you found a way to get an edge over somebody, then please keep your eating disorder to yourself.
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: we need to get that shit growing in incubators though. The UK (my body's in the French Alps, my mind is in Manchester) will be farm free in the medium term, so the meat factories have very few obstacles left ahead of them.
  • 2 1
 @Dropthedebt: Just missed that era. But at least I'm not 5 years older.
  • 5 4
 @BenPea: Meat shaming is on the way in Sweden. We Corpse eaters will need to grow some thicker skin. God damn wind... can’t even go for a road ride!
  • 1 1
 @BenPea: I was incredibly lucky to finish school in the summer of '88 so my further education and Uni years were very interesting, but not completely productive.
  • 1 0
 @Dropthedebt: it was like that for a while...
  • 4 3
 @WAKIdesigns: Never felt better. Blood tests are optimum. BP dropped significantly. Lost 60lbs in 8 months. So there is that. The Veg dietary propaganda is a lie. Discussion derailed.
  • 3 1
 @chasejj: the issue is vegans say exactly same thing...
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: just that I am not so annoying that I tattoo it on my body , ,preach about it or try to force people through legislation to adopt it. It works , try it and see. Otherwise I don't care.
  • 1 1
 @chasejj: I give you that 100%
  • 2 1
 Bore off you’re always all over the comments like your opinion matters @BenPea:
  • 2 1
 @CrispyNuggs: well my aim is often to amuse myself by trying to pierce through the thick carapace of a mindless, regressive oik, so at least in that sense I have been successful today.
  • 3 0
 You need to get a life then, if that amuses you@BenPea:
  • 1 1
 @CrispyNuggs: please show us your high life. Are you a stoic?
  • 55 11
 I won't be satisfied until Maxxis releases a more LGBT friendly tire compound.
  • 68 1
 the Assegal
  • 6 2
 @johnnyboy11000: lowkey best comment of the whole thread right here
  • 1 1
 @johnnyboy11000: Assegal sounds nice
  • 7 2
 Comes in Exa casing
  • 8 1
 Maxxis will change their name to MAXXYS, that way they have males, females, and those with Klinefelter Syndrome covered. And, as always, people who go by the name Max.
  • 3 2
 @iamamodel: Please confirm that the new tire plugs in fact be called "Tire Tampons" and actually be red (to easier spot them).
  • 52 23
 Solid and forward thinking E.S.G. standards (environment, social, and governance) are becoming a prerequisite for a corporation's success. It's good to see that these values are front and center in this industry.

There was a time when no one cared what a brand valued and as long as they produced good products, they would sell those products. That is becoming increasingly unique, thankfully.
  • 47 4
 Honestly it's just part of the advertisement now. just like gluten-free bikes, err, bread.
The ones who think companies do this "because they think it's the ethical thing to do" are naive at best.
  • 11 10
 @bankz:

I bet if you did a blind poll at SRAM, you'd find that the majority of the employees and board members would have values in line with the ones detailed here.

And regardless of the reasoning you come up with, these values do matter. You can call it virtue signalling if you wish but the that isn't going to stop the momentum that ESG is gaining. The consumer has the power at the end of the day and embracing values that consumers hold is crucial.

Being on the capital side of an industry myself, I can tell you that raising money isn't the same process that it used to be. Fundamentals (profit and revenue growth) are required of course, but private equity and public funds alike do now look at a corporation's ESG record and initiatives before investing.
  • 19 12
 @MRwillP: It’s public relations... to me as a male it’s nothing else but virtue signaling to gain some poor souls to allocate their feelings and resources in Sram. Both my wife and daughter prefer Shimano shifters, short Shimano levers and quiet Shimano hubs. Sram can suck it with their shitty hubs, dumb cranksets, even worse bottom brackets, and clunky, fast wearing cassettes costing a fortune. No amount of social justice or environmentalism will make me gladly buy their stuff, other than Code brakes. I buy their subpar forks because they are 40% cheaper than Fox I would chose if money were no object. They better spend energy fixing their stuff. I support women not pseudo humanitarian actions for women
  • 5 2
 @WAKIdesigns:
You never know, by garnering a new base of support with fresh ideas to the established at SRAM, they might start making shifters that are suitable for smaller hands, start making freehub bodies out of a harder cheese, or come up with all new BB standard that fixes all the issues with DUB called the Dynamically Universal Movement Bracket.
  • 3 0
 @MRwillP: I think the vast majority of people share similar values really. But the real pain points tend to be around defining the problems that require societal intervention, and those that are driven by individual choice and talents. Once that hs been established the argumen then becomes how best to address them.
  • 4 0
 @SmashySmashy: "the real pain points tend to be around defining the problems that require societal intervention, and those that are driven by individual choice and talents. Once that has been established the argument then becomes how best to address them."

This.
In spades.
Humanity hasn't managed it quite yet, and somehow, establishing and defining which problems require which kind of intervention appears, to me at least, to be getting ever distant...

Bugger.
  • 2 5
 I am blessed in the fact that I can afford almost any car I desire. Years ago, shopping for a new car (wagon) I was looking at my options. Due to the socio-political ramblings of one particular (popular) brand, I opted to NOT buy a Subaru (plus, I am not a lesbian). So, I ended up with a Mercedes Wagon....fast forward a few years. I still have the same options, still will not drive a freaking Subaru and can piss off the enviro-wacko's while dripping unburned gasoline from my tail pipes if I so desire.

So, your right. Political leanings can alter the consumers decisions. Sent me to the other direction. I know for a fact I am not alone.
  • 3 1
 In the U.K. at the moment Starbucks has adverts running promoting transgender people with using the name that a person prefers to be called by. Last night a channel 4 documentary was investigating the same said Starbucks for using coffee beans supplied by farmers that used children workers. Most companies are only interested profits and not the people that work for them or the who buy their products. Their appearance to their customers is all that matters to them.
  • 2 1
 @mattvanders: I agree, as StarSchmuck is publicly traded, all that should matter is profits. If someone wants to pretend they have some delusion of being a higher authority on ethics or values, do it on your own.
  • 5 1
 @mattvanders: I remember being early to a meeting and a boss of a rather big company was telling some marketing drone to keep the "Guinea thing" away from the monthly update infomail. He said something in the lines of: "we are not like those other a*sholes, we didn't do it for publicity". Later on he said they helped to build a hospital in Africa and was against publicizing it becaue it all makes him sick, even though! people in there don't really mind. They either get a hospital or not... I have been on a lecture of these folks later, man they were offended when someone asked "does this humanitarian thing really help?" - he said his first kid was born in a tent, second in a room. So well... sometimes we just like to hear some scandalous sht and get o nthe high horse because 99% of news is absolute lowlife shit... don't forget that some people do good stuff too. I am a piece of crap of a cynic myself quite often and it stops me from seeing good stuff at some point.
  • 38 7
 Shimano brakes are more supportive to women.
  • 23 17
 So are all dropper posts not made by SRAM.
  • 7 1
 Shi-Man-Ooooh Seems 50/50
  • 4 2
 @Jaybirdy: I reckon in 2022 Shimano will rebrand itself as Shemano+ in the name of gender equality.
  • 33 3
 It's always so funny that we do NOT call for parity in careers that aren't so "fun".
Can we have 50/50 in sanitation work?
  • 10 3
 I'm in civil engineering and there very much is a drive to get more women to consider these less glamorous roles, through volunteering, outreach into schools of all ages and mentoring. I can't speak for sanitation work though.
  • 6 10
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 2, 2020 at 12:03) (Below Threshold)
 @johnnyboy11000: I prefer civil engineer womens over men. Sorry... communicative, disciplined, almost never guessing, motivated, organized
  • 7 3
 @WAKIdesigns: I wouldn't disagree with you. But think about how much more harshly a woman would be judged if she wasn't all of those things compared to a man.
  • 6 6
 @johnnyboy11000: not sure how it is in UK, but try to tell a woman in Sweden she did something wrong during a project meeting and you can book a disciplinary meeting with your boss yourself. Nobody here would judge her harsher, on the contrary, and you can wonder if that’s fair to her.

There are other ways men get to the top here, by having women take care of their kids while they are working long over hours. I worked with some clients, I would never be able to work like they work. 5h Meeting ends at 18:30 and bloke says he says he’s off to meet a lawyer because he’s signing a contract with construction company next morning.

Bossy woman would tell everyone to chill the fk up, she’s going home and wants us to check everything again tomo.
  • 5 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I think it depends on the person really, I've noticed that some guys can make a few mistakes which cause people to moan a bit, but if a girl makes mistakes you hear the guys talking about whether she's good enough or whether she deserves to even have a job. But that's just my own experience.

Personally I think it's a bit f*cked up that in this day and age you have to give up your work life balance to be successful (in most cases). I've seen a few guys completely burnt out by the age of 30. Fortunately for me I'm a lazy bastard who loves my kids too much as well as the weekly blast out in the woods of course
  • 3 1
 @WAKIdesigns: @WAKIdesigns:
I have read a bit about the Swedish experience of the past decades on its journey towards a society where gender plays no role in determining outcomes, where people are "judged not by their gender (sic) but by the content of their character", and as part of that I keep seeing suggestions in articles / published academic papers that it has come at the expense of discrimination towards immigrants in society.

Here's just one example: www.jstor.org/stable/45084067?seq=1

I would be interested to hear your take on the validity of those suggestions, in your experience. As ever, if you are busy, don't waste your time.
  • 4 0
 @orientdave: it’s hard to judge it by abstract although the subtitle is not encouraging. I can only compare my blurry understanding of Polish culture with Sweden. Swedes are indeed trying treat each other equally but not just on the gender spectrum. We... I kind of have To say “We” at this point try to be open minded, prejudice is there off course but we do our best to not let it run rampant and develop. The only problem is people who try to find hole in everything and point a finger calling “hipocrisy”. No system is perfect, I do believe though that we have a really good structure of society and if you filter the records of discussions from regular political banter. state receives much more respect Than it does in Poland. I perceive Savic culture and Even more, the mediterranean Cultures as much more individualistic, there’s much less “what does my decision do to others”. The downside to that in Sweden is that interpersonal relations, friendships are not as deep, people are not that eager to form groups where a certain way of thinking is prevailing, the tribalism is lower but so is bonding. That affects family as well. Divorces and separations are common and seem as a solution people reach for rather early BUT! Children are often finding their way in the society, the society does take care of them, because after all it is a “we try to not be dicks to anybody”. Now in Poland, a country where religion is still quite important, divorce is obviously considered as something rather dirty, children are considered victims and consequently as worse type of citizens. You can’t treat someone as victim without introducing the duality of victim/ bastard. Family is much stronger in Poland or Italy and that makes them think Swedes are cold and kind of barbaric. In Sweden you are kind of obliged, it is seen as a virtue, to bind with your work mates, no, not the pub after work like in Britain, it’s a bit more of participating in organized geoup activities, parties, seminars, coffee breaks, lunches etc. it was a hard one to swell for me but now I See big benefits of that. Quite simply, you can Almost always find a group that will take you in, never so deeply like in Poland, but Still. Sure the depressed folks will say otherwise but with all the respect, after being one, I know that in such state no group feels welcoming.
  • 3 0
 @orientdave: but back to women. They surely have more equal rights in areas where male treats are not dominant, that is where ultimate, pathological workholism or physical strength are not the deciding factors of success. That is at least my experience. For instance managerial positions in big companies, man, in a way yeah it’s not equal, in another way, I haven’t met a single highly placed male who wouldn’t be fkd up on the job sacrificing their family and friends, including the boss of our whole company. Women are more free to express themselves so they are also more eager to voluntarily spend time with their kids. That would never go in Poland: you are either a housewife or more than a regular employee, so when you are an employee you better keep that family stuff to yourself and show that you can work as hard as men. Whatever reason your increased oxytocin may want to bring to the table, will be used as excuse and something against you.

Other differences? Well, Swedish women are more promiscuous but at the same time men (and other women) are much less likely to treat them as sluts if they lets say one girl ffkd one dude at work. Ironically it is manifested by how foreigners treat Swedish girls. My girl colleagues say that when on holidays in Spain, France, Italy, men are approaching them As if they were sure they will score, treating them as if they were “easy”. Now my sister in law living in Italy says Italian women are very insecure about scandinavian “chicks” since they are considered sluts... it doesn’t work like that in Sweden, they just have more freedom to express their sexuality. The most interesting bit I found is that you have to be honest with women here, they generally don’t like males coming up to them and kind of fancying them, flirting just for the sake of flirting. They seem to find it insincere. You either want something and she can consider it, or you keep it to yourself, or be as open as you can that this is just a game.
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns:
Interesting.

The phrase "what does my decision do to others" instantly made me think that there are some similarities then with my adopted home here in Japan, where some of the core concepts of Japanese society such as "kizuna", "enryo", "amae", "omoiyari", "taiou" are all based on the concept that the individual exists as part of a group, and that when choosing a course of action, consideration of the group is something that cannot easily be ignored.

What this ends up creating IMHO after a quarter of a century here, is a society with many faces (most of which the occasional visitor will never, ever, ever see), one where people can change their masks instantly to meet the needs of any situation. I have been long enough here to see them, and know them, and occasionally when people realize that I "get" this aspect of Japanese society and culture, I get labelled as "Japanese not British".

But all that "playing the game behind a mask" ironically means that the group that receives the least consideration is family, because that is the only place where you are free from obligation to the group... (seriously, you should hear the differences between how people talk to outsiders compared to those in their families.)

This means that whilst there is no "open hostility" to any gender, race, creed, religion etc, you can never be sure that you are just not seeing any "hidden hostility".

Similar to Sweden maybe, bonds here between people here rarely run as deep as they do in my experience of the UK (unless you go down into the Japanese underworld). and it is a common experience here to hear of non-Japanese who make their lives here bemoaning (complaining about) how the people closest to them seem cold sometimes compared to how everyone treats people outside of the family (visitors to Japan, the company offices, the home etc).

What this means in practice here is that if you visit Japan for a short period of time and only float about on the surface of society you leave with an image of Japanese people as being the friendliest, most accommodating people on the planet...

But....ask a young Japanese 23 year old who has just started work at their first full time job, who works 16 hours a day (unofficially, because officially it is 7.5 hours), never finishing the never ending list of jobs thrown on their desk by their boss, (who constantly tells them their work is substandard), and who has no time to do anything except collapse on the sofa bed that is their only furniture in their small, cramped, overpriced one room apartment in downtown Tokyo next to the train line when they eventually get home at 11:30 pm how friendly Japan is, and you may well get a very different answer.

All this comes together to create a society where everyone is seen to be working to support each other, even at the expense of their own well-being; so even though the state here gets so much respect as a result (the response to the Corona Virus has been exemplary... people stay home voluntarily mostly, and make a lot of effort to be seen to be doing the right thing), it is often openly criticised but only behind the safely closed doors of the front door.

This place suits the workaholic in me.
As for the relationship between men and women here... I am afraid I don't have the 3 hours it would take me to get all that down; nor the inclination to deal with the PB audience's reaction to some home truths about gender roles in Japan and how they are different to where they live.....and that that is OK if people here are OK with it...I have a mask to put on and get things done.
Take care.
  • 3 0
 @orientdave: I have never been to Japan, but there is surely a huge difference because Swedes are conforming to social norms rather than submitting, we have too little self discipline. I like your notion of “hidden prejudice”, “hidden hostility” and it is surely a thing, it is surely a mask, but what can be observed in some areas of Countries who said “screw PC” is that the leaders not only said it is ok to not wear a mask, they inspired to out on another one. The self fueling effect of Hatred and prejudice, possibly an evolutionary mechanism allowing us to More effectively get in packs and invade in case of an actual threat. It is undeniable that there is a very pragmatic side of tribalism, it is all a matter of circumstances. We live in times where that is unnecessary hence it is being pushed down. So “repressed prejudice” is currently a very desired and incentivized/ rewarded behavior. You see the modern Young leftists take it too far, because they don’t understand it, they ideologize it In the very same way chirch ideologizes “marital purity” or state ideologizes drug prohibition- don’t do it! - or what?! - terrible things will happen! SJWs want to eradicate certain behaviors and impose others with zero regard to our biology. This is why they are -as aggressive (even though the aggression is directed the other way) as bloody neonazis. Another “species” who have no clue what is going on in their brains and why their life looks like it looks.

Back to Swedes, one of the things that really struck me when I came here was how students dressed up. Some of them would be mildly mobbed in Poland, even in the 3rd grade, people would laugh at them. In fact such bizarre dresscodes would never work at almost any office job here. But in Sweden When it is allowed, ehich is most of the time, then it is allowed... to be an idiot. For good and bad. I really think this sums it up. “It is ok to be an idiot”. And if it is ok to be an idiot, if idiot will find Some job anyways, then it is ok to have different skin color, gender, voice, I mean for heavens sake some of the folks here are literally hurting themselves visually, you just see someone on the street and you go... fine, I guess I’ve seen everything... potentially pretty girl or handsome dude, who gave up the hope and somehow put everything together (or apart, depends on how you look at it) to look as unattractive and unemployable as possible. And I respect that. So while there is some ideological background to this tolerance, in many cases people just don’t care. They just don’t give a damn.
  • 3 1
 @orientdave: sorry. Last thing about masks. I talked to my boss about our “feedback chat” and she (a professional but at the same time, good, warm person, not affraid to speak her mind) she Made a remark that she Appreciates that I am not wearing a mask, even on salary negotiation. What was interesting though she didn’t mean “a success mask”. I didn’t ask but I could sense she meant that some other folks put on the martyr mask in front of her, which - I initially thought - makes no sense. But then I thought about it and one could make a case that they deserve more of something because they are “working so hard and they are so tired because Of that”. You know... the older my kids get, the more they try various manipulation methods the more I understand people around me Smile
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns:

"in some countries who said “screw PC”.... the leaders...".

This is one of the more interesting, and terrifying, parts of modern political discourse as far as I am concerned. Leaders across the world, and not only in the obvious places, are encouraging their supporters to be openly hostile, as you say. It doesn't look good for a blood-free future.

The UK satirist Tom Watson (Jonathan Pie), that you are probably well aware of, did an excellent analysis of the reasons why the very vocal SJW left, (but still a minority on the left, just very, very vocal) have helped in the process: SJW politics has created a "repressed tribalism", that evolutionary biologists will point to as being a part of the human condition, and it is this "repression of the self" that has allowed the centre-right to shift far more to the right, and given the politicians calling for open hostility, a willing audience.

That audience has shown it is more than ready for the message...

As for "not wearing a mask", I am glad that your boss appreciates it. Over here, only tourists and visitors perceived to be here for a short time are permitted to "not wear (figurative) masks in public"!! Stay any length of time and the warm welcome guests from overseas received disappears into the ether..

You had better get your masks sorted out quickly when coming to live over here; there is no other way IMO to integrate into society. The more I understand the world is essentially just mutual manipulation, the easier it is to ride along on the crest of its wave, and the more I like living in highly structured societies like Japan.

That only works though once you understand that there is a personal benefit from co-operation that outweighs personal benefit arising from "the freedom of the individual". The Nordic countries are famous for such a system; their taxation structure to promote funding of social services are they not.

Somehow, I don't expect the majority of the PB crowd to really be at that point in their lives though!
  • 3 0
 Thank you for this conversation lads!
Very good points and thank you Dave for explaining how creepy Japan really can be!
Honestly, living here has been great and has really opened my eyes to how humans exist amongst each other while trying to make way with harming others.
In doing so the society here is all wearing masks seeking social acceptance or placement rather than actually working to improve practicality and efficiency! ( points Dave already explained)
Its frustrating but once you can grasp this aspect of the culture, step back and learn to work around it to actually turn the normal negative depressing conversation into a positive forward thinking theme, Japan can be a very unstable place to live!
I can very sadly and deeply hurt to say that I have very little trust for even my best friends or students.
They would turn their back on me in a second to meet the eyes of Japanese standards!!!
I have realized Im nothing to this society and I mean nothing as my ideologies don't run along the same grain as what is portrayed on the news or national media!
I don't know how to say it other than society here feels fake! Fake bows, smiles and promises are made daily to make people feel warm!
Thank you Waki for talking about Sweden!
Its wonderful hearing about how other societies are trying to beat this social awkwardness that is just plain silly!
  • 36 10
 To all the women reading these comments. I'm sorry about all of the men complaining about companies trying to include you. Representation matters, we need you in the industry! Thank you SRAM!
  • 9 13
flag freekstylejim1 (Mar 2, 2020 at 21:54) (Below Threshold)
 @themalegeenadavis Good luck getting laid via PB, simp.
  • 2 1
 I think you would find most people are happy to have equality to happen but not in the way that it is currently happening or marketed. Examples of what I mean would be is if there was a company with 10 members of staff with 8 male and 2 females, I’m sure it would be able to call it lacking diversity. So how are you going to change it then? Only take on women to fill the next 6 vacancies? What if only 4 of the applications are female, do you wait for more female applicants in the future or do you take on males known full well that it does not help ratio for diversity? How about getting rid of 3 males by firing them or waiting till they leave or retire? Would you be willing to give up your job or not apply for a job so a quoter could be met? What about industries that are predominately female workers, should there be a push to get more males in said industries? Or should companies try and get quotes based on the ratio of male to females that studied said subject at school or uniy?

I would want the best person for the job regardless of their sex or race, and not favouritism to fill a quoter. The other thing is there is difference in what males and females want from life and their priorities are.
  • 22 4
 If anyone was wondering how ugly the world wide community of mountain biking can get, look no further. So sad and infuriating to see this much vitriol in the comments here, almost all made by men. Have any of you stopped to even think how this is received by women or better yet asked some?! You are so quick to be enraged by a brands commitment to what they believe furthers the industry and sport that you fail to even account for how women, the group the article is about, feel about this.
  • 6 3
 Exactly. It's funny how those who think that women simply aren't cut out for anything technical are blind to the fact that it is this very attitude that they and many others hold which contributes to gender disparity.
  • 3 2
 @johnnyboy11000: please show me to the comments saying women are not cut to do anything technical. I want to throw crap at them. Or are you just projecting?
  • 2 2
 @WAKIdesigns: calm down mate. I wasn't referring specifically to you. Maybe I was wrong and nobody actually did say that. It was late last night and I can't really be arsed to argue semantics on an MTB forum.
  • 23 8
 I don't think I understand how an effort to bring more women into cycling can inflame these commenters so badly. Yeah, maybe it's driven by marketing and insincere but as far as I can see adding more women to the community and the industry isn't going to harm any men who are already here. What about this is threatening?
  • 14 6
 @pinspanner it's the same people who threw a tantrum when equal prize money was announced despite those people having zero chance of winning anything ever
  • 3 5
 I swear, if I see a pink pussy hat out there I'm gonna lose it. :-)
  • 21 3
 Lower your prices, that's empowering!!!!
  • 13 11
 You mean that women can’t afford same bikes as men?
  • 15 2
 Lots of scared angry white men in the comment section eh? I will probably choose SRAM products over another company if they are making this a serious investment. The female mountain biking community is growing around where I live and It’s creating a really great overall feel to events and races. It would be really awesome to see some female business owners In the scene as well, and I hope that SRAM can help with that too.
  • 40 28
 Equality of opportunity is a right.....equality of outcome is a disaster. This could ruin not only Sram, but the entire industry. If you question my comment then you haven't thought about this much and are just bandwagon jumping.
  • 17 10
 Do you think a company like Sram would not have done their due diligence when making this choice of how they wish their business to move forward?
  • 28 14
 I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that by employing more women, SRAM and the "entire industry" will be ruined? LOL
  • 11 15
flag Ohiomtbwannab (Mar 2, 2020 at 11:21) (Below Threshold)
 @Dropthedebt:
You can’t sell quality products simply with a pitch of “well we now have a 30% women workforce on the blue collar front line”.

Rip Sram.
  • 18 8
 Competency is the ultimate equalizer, and we must do our best to allow the most competent people to have opportunities to see what they're good at and excel at it to all of our benefit. If men are on average better at engineering, there seems to be an actual sex/genetic basis to this fact, then you'll see more men in engineering just as you tend to find more women in fields related to care. There are always exceptions, heck, I'm a male social worker in a field dominated by women and it's fine with me. I'm worried about forcing people into things they don't naturally do well or want to do in order to accomplish some type of social engineering project; how is that not extremely unfair and selfish of society to demand that men and women do things they don't want to so that we all feel more "inclusive."
  • 7 2
 @Ohiomtbwannab:
That really doesn't answer my question but thanks for stopping by.
  • 7 2
 @wasea04: Thank you for the measured, logical post on this. #truth
  • 6 3
 @bman33: I'd adjust my response slightly by saying that I implied that equal opportunity must allow people to find their competencies not just "competent people." Can you imagine if someone like Elon Musk was told he had to go into nursing because there were too many men in the STEM fields...Thanks, bman33.
  • 5 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Mar 2, 2020 at 11:46) (Below Threshold)
 @wasea04: I will be honest, prejudice can be warranted, it’s nothing more but pattern recognition. As an architect, If I was to do several job interviews per day, for a position of a supporting architect or civil engineer, and had bad day, I wouldn’t invite a single male, because by average, women are better architects/ civil engineers. Their social skills, discipline and multitasking skill make them better than men. City planning, I wouldn’t take men even on a good day. Come back to me when you find that offensive.
  • 5 4
 @wasea04: I'd argue that (from my experience) gender had nothing to do with engineering ability, it seems more like a certain type of aggressive, dominant personality is a bigger factor in how successful you can be in a quite stressful and competitive environment. The most effective project manager I ever worked for was a tiny quietly spoken Scottish woman. I think the perception that men are better on average is because men who are attracted to those kinds of work tend to have the right personality traits to succeed in that environment. Certainly not due to some innate engineering ability, Christ some of the guys I've worked with could barely read a tape measure.
  • 10 3
 Cognitive ability has little to do with women in engineering. There is some evidence that men perform better in spatial awareness, and other engineering related things, but that evidence is new and still not solid. What is solid, and almost completely explains the gender disparity in engineering is preference. Women prefer other jobs. QED. Thats it. Controlling for everything we can control for. Even if you use data from more egalitarian countries like the Nordic ones, gender disparity in certain occupations is actually higher. There are 20 female nurses for every male. The only people worried about gender disparities in Engineering are people who have no actual interest in engineering.
  • 2 5
 Ahhhh.....a Canadian Libertarian. Adorable.
  • 4 3
 @hamncheez: As an engineer worried about gender disparities in engineering, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. And I definitely have actual interest in engineering (I am working towards a PhD).
  • 2 4
 @hamncheez: in my experience women by average indeed are not as good as men when it comes to giving form to something that does not exist, finding quick solutions that will do, but more than often that’s a small part of the job. Managing the project, Contact with client, organizing the project, keeping track of taken decisions, following up, fixing the budget... I have never met a woman in project management or an engineer who would say “fk it” or would answer to a question by guessing. They are quick with finding a source of information and replying with facts.
  • 5 2
 @wasea04: OMG !!!! You said "if men are on average better at engineering, there seems to be an actual sex/genetic basis" Watch out man! A guy named James Denmore lost his his job at Google by stating something very similar. You may get banned from this forum. Wink
  • 4 2
 @konrad1972: Lol, poor guy. I read about him recently. Sex differences, average differences that is, are small, but still significant and something to be grateful for versus feared and repressed. As long as people are free to choose, or as close to as they can become because otherwise it's a philosophical straw man/rabbit hole, and they group as they do, then why have any problems with it. Diversity (of ideas, competencies, and backgrounds, NOT JUST sex, age, gender, etc.) is strength, and so let it be!
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: I think we're semantically agreeing, choice and competency typically align though not always.
  • 5 2
 @WAKIdesigns: The actual scientific evidence for cognitive differences is kinda weak. I don't think its strong enough to use as an argument for less women in engineering. However, choices women make just about completely explains why we observe few women in the field.
  • 5 2
 @hamncheez:
"The only people worried about gender disparities in Engineering are people who have no actual interest in engineering"

So according to you this bunch of engineers, directors & managers of engineering companies must have no interest in engineering? They are speaking at a conference which attempts to address the gender disparities in construction:

www.womeninconstructionsummit.com/speakers
www.womeninconstructionsummit.com/speakers
  • 16 1
 Yeah Women are cool but where is the Grim Donut?!
  • 10 0
 So many of y'all are over thinking this. SRAM as a brand might or might not care about the intrinsic value in equality. What SRAM definitely cares about is the money that women have who aren't currently spending it on bikes and components.
  • 11 1
 Props to SRAM for putting it out there. Now the market (probably mostly men) can decide if they want to support that or, if they don't like it, can spend their money on other producer's products.
  • 3 1
 We can all sleep well knowing that it was Chinese slave labor producing our bike bits though....when it comes to slave child labor, I am not so sure the Chinese discriminate against gender
  • 9 1
 Holy hell you guys really think that this is going to ruin SRAM or that the quality of your parts are going to suffer are out to lunch. I think its fair to assume that the hiring pool for these positions are likely male dominated, and that sifting through these with more effort to put a higher focus on hiring more women that are equally qualified is great and wont hurt anything. I think everybody in a huff about this is looking at it wrong, but hey yeah keep thinking you know what is best for a company or the future of mountain biking better than a gigantic industry leading firm that is obviously paying close attention to metrics and trends
  • 30 20
 What about getting more virtue signalers on bikes?
  • 9 1
 They're all waiting for the new ebike from Tesla.
  • 21 14
 "SRAM believes that achieving gender parity in cycling is imperative for the long-term success of the industry as a whole."

LOL
  • 9 7
 Just when Black History month ended... LOL
  • 4 1
 SRAM is right. Now that pretty much every new bike has a water bottle mount inside the frame there is no reason to ever buy a new bike. This is a problem if most guys who were going to get into biking have already done so.
  • 2 3
 @WAKIdesigns: Its now Womens history month. Not even joking.
  • 3 1
 The long term success will be to figure out how to make their product less expensive , because as of right now I know friends who refuse to even entertain the sport due to it's outrageous cost of entry for them and their kids. BTW these people make $300K + a year.
  • 4 4
 @hamncheez: which is the Black women history month?
  • 3 2
 @WAKIdesigns: Thats leap day, Feb 29
  • 4 3
 @hamncheez: it sounds be womans history month...that's degrading. A month for anyone's history is degrading.
  • 11 6
 Money talks in this world: this will not bring the same attention as male WC racers get. It’s just like girls soccer, you can have it, but you can’t force me to watch it. Similarly to why top models like Gisele Bundchen makes way more money than whatever Joe modeling out there...
  • 25 16
 Good Grief... So many fragile male ego's.
  • 10 3
 You really believe there are no women who dislike this kind of marketing?
  • 15 1
 @IntoTheEverflow: It's one thing to dislike ads that make a big deal out of promoting equality, when more women on bikes obviously means more money for SRAM.

It's a very different thing to argue that increasing women's participation is going to ruin the bike industry, drive SRAM out of business, etc., as many commenters here are doing.

So while there are definitely women who dislike this kind of marketing (and not just for the reason above), there are also some ridiculous overreactions from men happening.
  • 5 0
 My employer has an initiative to actively approach women in the organization to ask them if they are interested in working in the bike shop, and then provide training to them. There are lots of dudes who do the same program as well, and it's not like the dudes who wanted to work in the shop can't now because women took their place. It's really not that competitive at the shop level.
Our shop culture is the best I have ever worked in for other reasons besides this initiative and the women do an equally good job as the guys. But boy do the customers treat them like shit sometimes! I've even seen older female customers ask to speak to "another mechanic" when they get a response they don't like from a female tech with 5yrs experience. I've never had a customer ask to speak to someone else but I'm a dude, members of the public trust a mechanic who is a dude more. I think eventually it will change thanks to awesome female techs out there.
  • 3 2
 Women on the sales level is a smart business choice. Some women are so intimidated by a smiling, friendly man that they would only frequent a bike shop that employs women. How do I know this? I ride with women who feel this way. Here's a snippet of an actual conversation the day after I took one of my girlfriends to demo some bikes: "Rob was treating me like I was stupid at xxxx bike shop yesterday" Me: "He really went into detail about that Norco, but what did he say wrong?" Her "I know, all that tech stuff made me feel stupid" Me: "So he treated you like you were smart.You just felt stupid because.....". Her: "Stop oppressing meeeeee!". I SHIT YOU NOT.
  • 1 1
 @JohanG: I've never met anyone like that, but it's true that people are more likely to buy something from someone who is similar to them. Sounds like both parties are at fault. You have to get to know your customer, and listing off specs without context is like the #1 nono described in all of the B2B sales courses provided by Shimano, SRAM, Cannondale, etc... Also this girlfriend of yours sounds cringey AF
  • 13 10
 Yet another corporation joining the lunacy of o equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity. Whenever I go to a hospital, get a haircut, or fly I am attended by mostly females. Mind you, nursing is becoming quite profitable profession. Yet I don't hear "progressive" voices screaming about the lack of gender parity in those areas. And I don't here males feeling left out because they are not encouraged to engage in those professions. Also I am yet to see a female working as a car mechanic. The gender parity in every aspect of our lives has become an absurd and undeniable dogma. When are the "progressive" social engineers going to understand that that the difference between male and female is more than the genitals, and the lack of parity in certain professions or activities is a result of our male/female biological differences and not of some kind of discrimination. Mountain biking is quite a young sport and I have never heard or seen any kind of discouragement toward females. Since the beginning of the sport females simply did not show as much interest in it as males. Majority of women that I know and I talk about the sport have absolutely no interest in mountain biking because it is too tough and rough. Many of my riding buddies say "My wife despite encouragement" has absolutely no interest in it." So the fact that females need special encouragement to take up mtb simply proves that females are different. SRAM can fire all men and hire all women. They can stop sponsoring men. I am sure that that will not achieve parity in the sport. Finally what's wrong with the fact that more men than women prefer Mountain Biking. There are other activities that are preferred by women and it does not make the world any better or worse. Let people do what they like and stop seeing discrimination where it does not exist.
  • 6 1
 I'm also concerned about the gender bias among drywallers, plumbers, electricians, roofers, coal miners, and concrete crews. There are zero women in these trades and it really shows the unfairness of the system. Women need to break through these glass ceilings if we want to progress as a society.
  • 3 1
 @JohanG: Sarcastic or not, I agree with this
  • 2 3
 @JohanG: but my nails........
  • 8 2
 If a public space has to suppress others for the sake of your presence, you are toxic.
  • 3 1
 If you want gender parity, there shouldn't be women's day or men's day! People day would make more sense! Im sorry but that video was hard to watch it feels more awkward than the moral reality of how most perceive people! World, people don't care WHAT you are! If you get the job done customers are satisfied!
  • 7 2
 SRAM is always a step ahead. In marketing.
  • 6 1
 Ouf, some real rancid comments up in here.
  • 4 1
 Just produce the best parts regardless of what gender / color / creed / religion you happen to be. All this equality stuff is bullshit.
  • 2 2
 Considering how crappy a lot of SRAM product is, they need new people to look at how they do stuff anyway. By attracting women, they might gain the perspective to get over their "buyers are beta testers" mentality. If this initiative's goals are met-we'll see in a few years.
  • 7 2
 Props SRAM!
  • 4 3
 How long have they in business and fail to realize the potential profits? To forget other genders in the industry is bad for business!
  • 3 1
 Hard pass on the virtue signaling nonsense. I don't care what someone is. Make good stuff and ride fast and I'll be a fan.
  • 3 3
 So that's why Sram won't hire me. I told em "My old man is a television repair man, he's got an ultimate set of tools; I can fix it!"
  • 2 0
 Holy Shit people...more controversial than wheel size.
  • 1 0
 hahahahahahahahahahhahahah lol
  • 3 1
 Yet again the true face of the mtb community comes into the light.
  • 1 0
 Wow, I'm going for a ride.
  • 1 0
 Meanwhile in America...... youtu.be/Dvw4H4XrdPM
  • 8 11
 Now this shit here too!! Come ooonnnn... There is less women in this industry because in general they are less interested in it. Just comper the number of coments by women and men to see who is really into the bike world
  • 5 5
 Long term success of the industry? You mean more profit, right?
  • 1 2
 Yes, thank you for explaining what success in business usually implies. Since you say it like it's a bad thing, I take it you work for a pat on the back each month?
  • 3 3
 y i k e s
  • 4 6
 SRAM: Go WOKE, Get BROKE.

Bye bye rock shox and sram, better buy DVO and Shimano
  • 1 4
 SRAM Commits to Greater accessibility for his product and the rest & 'More people to the Start Line'
  • 15 17
 Cool “#metoo” virtue signalling
  • 9 3
 I don't see how this could possibly have anything to do with #metoo
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