First Ride: SRAM's 12-Speed Eagle Drivetrain
After months of rumors, leaked photos, and plenty of heated internet speculation, it's official: SRAM's new XX1 and X01 1x drivetrains go to 12. Twelve speeds that is - both groups are based around a massive looking, 10-50 tooth cassette. Called 'Eagle', the project initially began with the goal of improving SRAM's current 1x11 offerings, but as the company's engineers dove deeper into their tasks, they realized it was possible to add a 50 tooth cog with only a minor weight penalty, a move that would increase the drivetrain's gear range to 500%. That number is greater than the range of a typical 2x10 drivetrain, effectively squashing the complaints of anyone who'd been hesitant to commit to a single ring drivetrain due to the available gear range. In fact, SRAM is so certain that 1x drivetrains are the way forward that they've disbanded their mountain front derailleur division. Front derailleurs have already become a rarity on most high-end mountain bikes, and they'll be even more of an oddity when the 2017 models debut.
It's easy to puff your chest and scoff at a 50-tooth cog as being only for out-of-shape riders, and there's no denying that the dinner plate-sized ring does look odd at first, but Eagle is about more than being able to ride up vertical walls. It's about having a wider gear range, and SRAM encourages riders to choose the chainring size that best suits their needs. For instance, if you're perfectly happy with the climbing gear on a 1x11 setup with a 32-tooth ring and a 10-42 cassette, going with a 36 tooth ring on an 10-50 cassette will feel nearly the same when climbing, but greatly extend the higher end of the cassette, making it much less likely that you'll spin out on a high-speed descent.
There will be two different Eagle drivetrains - XX1 and X01 - when the groups hit stores this June. XX1 is positioned as SRAM's flagship cross-country group, while X01 is aimed at more aggressive riders, those who prefer more technical terrain, and may even find themselves rolling up to the start of an enduro race.
PC-1290 Eagle Chain
Most of us don't spend much time thinking about a bike's chain unless it's making noise, skipping, or coiled in a snake-like heap by the side of the trail, but the new PC-1290 chain is worthy of a closer look. It's an impressive feat of engineering, one that required a new manufacturing process and the German-made tooling to go with it.
The inside of each plate has had any square edges removed, a measure that's said to create a quieter and longer lasting chain. In fact, SRAM say that the new chain is the “quietest, strongest, and most wear resistant chain in the world.” Those are bold claims, and we'll be putting them to the test once we have an Eagle group in for review.
Any sharp edges on the inside of the links have been removed.
The chain itself is slightly narrower than an 11-speed chain, and the pins on each link are now completely flush with each side, a space saving measure that allowed SRAM to squeeze in that extra cog without needing to resort to a different driver body.
The XX1 and X01 Eagle cassettes are identical...
But XX1 is available in a flashy gold color.
Cassette
The tooth count of the first 11 cogs on the Eagle cassette are the same as they are on SRAM's 11-speed 10-42 cassettes (10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42), with the 10-tooth cog sitting in exactly the same position. The spacing between each cogs is ever-so-slightly tighter, and the final 50-tooth cog sits a little closer (2mm to be exact) to the spokes than the 42-tooth cog would on an 11-speed cassette. Despite the extra cog, the cassette still works with a standard XD driver body.
The 10-50 tooth cassette weighs a claimed 355 grams (87 grams more than 11-speed XX1), and is constructed using SRAM's X-Dome technique, where nine of the cogs are machined out of a single piece of steel billet. Two of the three remaining cogs are also made of steel, and the final 50-tooth cog is aluminum. For the numbers oriented out there, a 10-50 tooth cassette offers a 500% gear range, versus 420% with a 10-42 tooth cassette. Both groups share the same cassette construction, although XX1 comes in a snazzy gold-colored option that adds to the bling factor, and $60 to the final price.
The B-knuckle has been revised, and the Cage Lock button is now tucked farther out of harm's way.
The lower pulley wheel now has 14 teeth (two more than before) to accommodate the wider range cassette.
Derailleur
To accommodate the wider range cassette, the Eagle's 12-speed specific rear derailleur has a 14-tooth lower pulley wheel, two teeth larger than its 11-speed sibling. Other updates include version 3.0 of SRAM's roller bearing clutch mechanism, a revision that's designed to create a smoother feeling as the cage moves forward, although it's still not externally adjustable due to a patent held by Shimano. The Cage Lock button has also been relocated away from the front of the derailleur to better protect it from impacts.
Even the B-knuckle (the portion of the derailleur that's threaded onto the hanger) has been tweaked to help keep the mounting bolt from unthreading itself. There's now a bushing around the mounting bolt, allowing the derailleur to pivot forwards and back without bringing that bolt with it. The XX1 Eagle derailleur gets a carbon fiber cage and a titanium spring, features that allow it to weigh in at 12 grams lighter than X01. 12 grams isn't much, but remember that XX1 is aimed at elite-level XC riders, where gram-counting is a way of life.
My, what sharp teeth you have.
Chainring
The teeth on the Eagle chainring look dramatically different from SRAM's previous narrow-wide offerings, with a deeper, more hooked profile that's supposed to increase chain retention, along with reducing the amount of noise, even when the chainring is worn.
Notice how material has been machined away at the top of each tooth? That's the spot where a little nubbin of metal used to develop as the chainring wore, which could create a grinding sensation, especially when the chain was shifted to the far ends of the cassette. On the topic of chainring wear, SRAM says that the new design should last more than four times longer than their previous narrow-wide rings – that means most riders should be able to get multiple seasons out of one ring.
The teeth on the Eagle chainring look dramatically different from SRAM's previous narrow-wide offerings, with a deeper, more hooked profile that's supposed to increase chain retention, along with reducing the amount of noise, even when the chainring is worn.
Notice how material has been machined away at the top of each tooth? That's the spot where a little nubbin of metal used to develop as the chainring wore, which could create a grinding sensation, especially when the chain was shifted to the far ends of the cassette. On the topic of chainring wear, SRAM says that the new design should last more than four times longer than their previous narrow-wide rings – that means most riders should be able to get multiple seasons out of one ring.
SRAM claim that the new rings are more durable than ever.
It's also worth mentioning that the X-Sync 2 chainrings are backward compatible with 11-speed drivetrains. Available in 30, 32, 34, 36, and 38-tooth options, they're direct-mount only, and will retail for $99 USD.
The XX1 carbon cranks are completely hollow and intended for XC and trail applications.
While the X01 cranks use a foam core and are suitable for anything up to and including enduro racing.
XX1 and X01 Eagle Cranks
The carbon XX1 and X01 cranksets are both suitable for XC and trail usage, but the X01 cranks have been constructed to survive the rigors of all-mountain and enduro riding as well. The XX1 cranks are completely hollow, while the X01 cranks have a foam core, and are tested to SRAM's gravity standard.
Now if I could only get this Steve Miller Band song out of my head...
5 Quick Questions
Who is Eagle for? Riders who want a purpose-built, single ring 12-speed drivetrain with a 500% gear range.
Do I need a bike with 12x148 rear spacing to run Eagle? Nope, and it works with a regular XD driver body. The ability to run an Eagle drivetrain isn't dependent on your rear axle width. That being said, Boost spacing can help frame designers create enough chainring clearance to fit the larger chainrings that many riders will be using with Eagle.
Why not go to 13 speeds? Or 15? Why the one cog jump every few years? According to Chris Hilton, SRAM's drivetrain product manager, “Sometimes people, including ourselves [SRAM], need time to acclimatize to change. When we looked at XX1 originally there was a fair bit of internal stress about the aesthetic change that XX1 had.... People getting used to these things slowly has made it easier for us. Can you go bigger? Yeah, you can go bigger, you can go more. Any of these things are possible, but we try to understand how much are people going to take, and I think that if you look at things like hub standards right now people have pretty clearly told me they don't want any more... People have had enough.”
When will a more affordable version hit the market? It took four years for SRAM's more budget-oriented 1x11 drivetrains to hit the market, but the trickle down for Eagle could be quicker, although SRAM couldn't reveal an exact timeline.
What do I need to make the switch to a 12-speed drivetrain? At the minimum, if you already have an XD-driver equipped hub and SRAM direct mount compatible cranks, upgrading to Eagle requires the purchase of a cassette, derailleur, shifter, chain, and chainring.
I was able to spend a day on each group riding the trails of Massa Marittima, Italy, in order to start getting a feel for Eagle's real world performance. Of course, how a drivetrain fares after months of use and abuse is the true test of its worth – keep an eye out for a long term review later in the year, once we've put in some serious miles.
Day one was spent aboard a Scott Spark, one that had been stripped of its usual mess of cables and remotes and turned into a lean and mean, SRAM and RockShox equipped cross-country machine. That day's loop wasn't particularly technical, but it was full of short climbs and tight, twisting descents, the type of terrain that regularly requires multiple quick shifts. Shifting performance was exactly on par with what I've come to expect from SRAM's top-tier offerings – there's a crisp and precise jump from cog to cog, with a distinct 'thwunk' as the chain settles into place. The most immediate sensation was just how smooth the drivetrain felt. Sure, a brand new drivetrain will always feel better than one that's had the snot beat out of it for months, but this was something different. The interaction between the chain and chainring feels absolutely seamless, almost as if it were somehow one unit rather than two separate components. How much of this is due to the chain and how much is related to the chainring is hard to tell, but it will be interesting to see how an Eagle chainring feels with an 11-speed chain (the chainrings are the only part of the system that are 11-speed compatible). In any case, the drivetrain felt remarkably smooth, no matter what gear the chain was in.
What about the jump up to the 50-tooth cog? That didn't pose any problems, and even though it's the largest jump on the cassette, the chain hopped right up without any hesitation. The 8-tooth spread does mean that the 50-tooth cog feels like more of a bailout gear, one that you would shift into as a last resort, whether that's to grind out the last miles of a soul-crushing climb, or when suddenly faced with a near-vertical section of trail.
Day one's ride, an XX1 Eagle equipped Scott Spark.
Lapierre's Spicy Team, set up with X01 Eagle.
After spending the last few years aboard 11-speed drivetrains it did take a little time to get used to having a wider spread of gears, and an extra click at the shifter. I found myself glancing down a couple times to see just how many gears I had left on the cassette, and in each instance there were more remaining than expected. That's a good thing, especially when compared to the alternative, where you fruitlessly stab at the shift lever hoping for just one more gear. I've honestly never had any issues with the gear range of a 1x11 drivetrain with a 10-42 cassette, but there have been plenty of rides where I would have shifted into an easier gear if it were available, which is what the 10-50t cassette accomplishes. I usually run a 32-tooth chainring on 11-speed setups – that's what works best to tackle the long, steep logging road climbs around my home – but with Eagle I'd likely bump up to a 34-tooth ring, thus gaining a slightly easier climbing gear, as well as a harder gear for high-speed descents.
The second day of riding was a little rowdier, located on the trails that were going to be used for the first round of the Superenduro race series. My ride was the Lapierre Spicy, a bike that epitomizes the saying, “don't judge a book by its cover.” Despite its ugly duckling looks, it's a good representation of the style of bike many riders are gravitating towards, with 160mm of travel and longer, slacker geometry, the type of bike SRAM expect the X01 group to end up on. Like the XX1 group, X01 felt extremely smooth, with accurate shifts and no dropped chains, even on the rougher, rockier trails. Other than price, and a minor weight difference, there's no functional difference between the two groups, and in a blind test it would be virtually impossible to tell one group from the other.
 | The battle for drivetrain dominance continues to rage on, but this is a fight that benefits the consumer, and mountain bikers now have more options than ever. One thing is abundantly clear - the front derailleur's extinction has never been more imminent. The launch of relatively inexpensive 11-speed drivetrains from SRAM and Shimano, along with the plethora of conversion kits and aftermarket cassettes from smaller players means that there are 1x choices to fit just about every budget. Eagle's ultra-wide range and the host of refinements that went into producing the 12-speed group will undoubtedly make it a popular choice on 2017's top tier bikes - it will be interesting to see how Shimano chooses to respond. - Mike Kazimer |
Visit the high-res gallery for additional images and spec sheets.
Photos: Adrian Marcoux / Mike Kazimer
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$1200 USD for the XO1. What is that $50,000 CAD?
Gear range comparison: wheelsizeagnostic.com/sram-1x12-x01-eagle-sram-gives-us-crazy-gears
If the bike industry sunsets my doubles and I'm forced into a single then this will help keep me riding.
(I'm still pissed about the whole 27.5 things though I have to admit)
If I saw such a thing back when my body wasn't beat up and worn out I'd of scoffed I'm pretty sure ~ time and tide catch up to us all and trolling / trashing on something because you're not broken yet (everyone breaks eventually) is pretty arrogant in my opinion.
For a throwback thrusday classic, go back to pinkbikes review of the first 11 speed drivetrain, the XX1, and read the battle that was waged between Protour and Waki on multiple threads.
You forgot
"You crazy Dutch bastard!"
More is better? We need this?
At this point, if I were going to give something a shot it would probably be the e.thirteen 9-44 11 speed cassette, so I could drop another 2 teeth on the chainring and get a little more climbing power and clearance while not affecting the top end because of the 9 tooth, and it only comes at a 50g weight penalty at the axle. I guess we really are in the golden age of choice and horses for courses in MTB.
The Alfine won't work for people who beat their bikes. They do work for those who ride with skill, finesse and on smoother trails. The Alfine isn't ideal for off road at this time but it certainly could be and most likely will be if Pinion equipped bikes start to take off.
If your riding and your trails only require 10s, then, in fact, your rig will never be outdated.
or maybe 3x12?.... We'll see..
Mwa mwa mwa mwa mwa mwaaaaa
Yeah. We would totally hate computers. ; )
Because drivetrain components are wear parts, there's a huge business in supplying stuff for years to come. And that stuff, over time, becomes better while still being compatible. So if have to replace a derailleur due to rock strike, hey, all of a sudden you can put an 11speed drivetrain on your bike instead of the old 10sp setup for about what the old parts would have cost you a year ago - or you can get those 10 speed system parts at a discount. There's so much the bike industry does that ends up screwing over consumers - this continuing evolution of drivetrains allowing upgrades to existing bikes, or cheaper-than-before maintenance/replacement of wear parts is not one of those things.
What will happen is 12 speed will trickle down so getting XT or X9 9 speed gets more difficult as stock sells off. The up side with Shimano is every they also trikle down tech as they develop DA and XTR. Look at today's 9spd Alivio. Its beautiful and the RDR bears a striking resemblance to the first shadow XT RDR.
More and more people are getting tired of this crap though so more and more are calling for internal gear systems. Have a word with yourself if you think the up coming internal systems won't be superior in every way. Had gearboxes for bikes been developed along side derailleurs for the past 116 years derailleurs would have died decades ago. If getting rid of a 2x derailleur was good for bike design getting rid of a 12 speed one is 6x better.
Don't believe the companies who say IG is less efficient or whatever. They make millions of the high maintenance short life products they are pushing. Shimano has the IG tech in their IGH hubs and so does Sram. If they were to build a BB around that tech the weight where it should be.
People use the Alphine for MTB a lot now. Shimano's main warning is a bent axle will seize and destroy the hub. Great, so why not build it around a Saint axle or a hollow tech BB axle to make it stronger and lighter? Because you won't have to replace it at least once a year.
Sorry SRAM: meh.
Give me 14 Speeds on a wider FH body, I won't give a tiniest crap either. Original XX1 was great, N/W chainrings and wide range cassette changed the way I ride my bike. But this? Get your balls out in 4 years and give me an electronic gearbox instead of electronic XX1. I still believe that SRAM will be the one to make if Shimano can't even let go of idiotic tripple chainrings.
Years ago Shimano was prototyping a system called FM5. It had a 7 spd internal hub and 5 spd internal crank. Top racers like Greg Herbold used it and loved it. We were told it would never be produced for MTB because Shimano was too invested in derailleur. They sold the crank for urban bikes in europe and/or Asia not in NA and of course they continue to sell their IH hubs for commuters and city users who want clean maintenance free long life gear systems... Yeah, who the hell doesn't right?
The take away is Shimano could easily develop their existing IGH technology that sells very well and is very well known and accepted in the market place but they choose not to. Shimano will say there is no market or demand for it... but then they say there is no demand for wireless gear systems either. Clearly if you could find Shimano in the dictionary "stubborn" would be one of the definitions.
Everyone is focused on the range, little gets said about the chain line. It does get mentioned here because Sram knows everyone knows it IS a problem they just made worse. This chain may be better than the current 9/10 speed chains, its hard to imagine them being worse, but will it actually last longer than a 9 speed chain used and maintained properly in a 9 speed system? What if they applied this new design to a 9 speed chain? How much longer would that last? A hell of a lot longer than this new 12 speed chain but where's the profit in that?
@sram - you will get my middle finger for that extra 50t cock
Here's the problem, though - yes, a gear box would make that ritual a bit quicker - but I'd still have to do a quick clean on suspension parts; I'd still have to do the quick hose down (to make sure mud/rocks/debris don't collect around the pivots or block the bleed holes in the frame). So while the traditional drive train adds time to the routine, the gear box wouldn't get rid of the routine completely.
So where does this leave us? Yes, the gearbox is lower fuss. But at current state of the art, there's a lot of resistance to overcome. The box is expensive at the outset (offset by lower maintenance over time - no derailleurs and cassettes and rings and chains to replace), so you have a sticker shock issue. The box requires very different frames, so you can't make them an option on the high end trim for the early adopters (like you can with stuff like special suspension bits, or electronic shifting, etc.), but have to make a dedicated bike. And you can't sell them to retrofit.
SRAM has a lot of experience with in-hub shifting from their Fichtel & Sachs roots. With cassettes getting bigger and thus heavier, it's hard to imagine SRAM wouldn't be able to come up with a better in-hub system that's not too much heavier than an 11sp derailleur system - so you'd get all the low-maintenance benefits, even if you didn't have the benefit of moving the weight to the center - and that wouldn't require different frames. That's perhaps an easier route to imagine - but then you're looking at a more expensive, slightly heavier, slightly less efficient (at least in clean state) setup, so that's perhaps not the clearly better mousetrap people will flock to.
Pinion is probably closest to having a gear box that's ready for prime time. And they've gotten it to be pretty compact - but it's still a lot bigger than a bottom bracket. So it still requires some serious adaptation to existing frames, or a dedicated frame.
But damn, the nasty old derailleurs have finally gotten pretty damn good. Even a neglected one will work for a good long time; they no longer need constant adjustment; they shift well even under power (a gear box will require learning to anticipate your shifts a lot more on the uphills); chains don't fall off they way they used to; etc.; etc...
It's a pretty damn steep hill to climb, and meanwhile SRAM and Shimano are duking it out leading to better and cheaper drivetrains readily available and compatible with what people already ride. This may end up as another case where good enough beats better...
Derailleur technology is 116 years old. Yeah it works but imagine if IG systems had been the focus of most of the R&D in that time. IG systems can use a gates belt drive. The complete gates drive, belt cog and chain ring, weigh about the same as your roller chain and last at least twice as long with virtually no maintenance.
I got to ride a city bike with the 8 spd Alphine hub and agates drive. It was awesome, absolutely quiet and smooth. Its a system that would kill chain driven derailleur bikes if it were paired to an IG system that had as much effort put into developing and marketing it for performance as the S guys have put into their derailleurs.
Sunrace and Microshift both already have cheap 10 and 11 speed wide range cassettes and Sunrace even has a decent looking rear derailleur. I'm well aware of the difference in quality so no need to point it out. Point is cheap systems are already out there and the s guys aren't going to devalue their product because like IG its not in their interest to do it.
The future is IG not this crap and I'm betting Sram didn't think so many people would be looking at this and saying enough of this crap, you've gone to far. I'm glad to see it finally.
The Pinion box weighs over 1000g more than Shimano's Alphine 11 spd hub, it weighs 1665g with 409% gear ratio
I think someone (maybe even me) needs to draw a tick-box-chart of compatible Mechs-Cassettes-Shifters. Please.
While I'm here:
Gearboxes - All the technology exists. Cost is clearly not an issue: The top Trek Emonda SLR is £12,000. People ARE willing to spend a LOT of money on bikes. Frame design and suspension mechanics are issues that can be solved. Weight, would at least be 'unsprung mass' (not seen that term mentioned in a review since about 2007...) Benefits: @g-42 is right, most people are happy with deraileurs and wouldn't see much benefit from the increased cost. Which reminds me of that new groupset...
Or you could buy a Nicholai or a Cavalrie with an Effigear.
Or you could just keep posting complaints which go nowhere on every pinkbike article and not actually do anything.
Until there are other manufacturers taking a chunk out of their derailleur sales they have no motivation to develop anything and as long as people keep saying "Oh, the pinion is too expensive, I want one from a big company" that isn't going to change. That's what people mean by vote with your wallet.
For those of us willing to speak with our wallets, where do we get a proper gearbox bike in the US?
ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb13305543/p5pb13305543.jpg
Benefits:
Increasing overall ratio (internal ratio approx 1:1.5)
Small chainring > less weight but more important for engineers: increasing space at bottom bracket, this is the most difficult area to design due all the stresses at that particular point.
Smaller cassette > less weight thinking about a 7 speed downhill XG-795 miniblock (136 gram!)
Smaller derailleur > less change on hitting it.
Future
Changing the (stupid) SRAM design on XG-795 cassette and body to make space for wider hub flanges (boosting) within a standard 142x12 versions.
Program it with Di2 (shifts itself internal or external with one shifter)
My goal is to reach a solution which is even a bit more lightweight then a 1x11 drive, and I am slowly reaching it. By then maybe Shimano or Sram have it already on the market
Greets from Holland
...at least until next month.
babump####
Curtain opens on their new shark tooth sprokit to solve the issue!
Also worth considering that SRAM is setting their sites on the road bike market with their 1x stuff. A few months ago I was going with the idea of building a 1x road bike, and some quick math told me that a 46 ring with a 10-42 cassette would give me pretty much the same range as a compact double on a standard race bike. This 12 speed cassette will have an even wider range then that. Less front derailleurs in the world means less headache for everyone. I know super cadence nerd roadies like the tiny jumps on their tiny cassettes, but for many, many people, super wide range 1x gearing is a good thing.
....Yeah stoodi because the massive weight of a shifter, FDR and its cable are slowing you down so much. Did you factor in your longer 1x chain to your weight loss equation? A lot of people, even elite XC racers still use a chain guide so you don't necessarily loose the weight of an FDR either. You also have the same number of chain wheels in 1x11 as you do in 2x10, 2x9 has 1 less so most of the time you don't loose any chain wheels you just move them from front to back. Funny that the extra weight on the back wheel is a criticism of IG hubs but we have no problems or concerns pilling more weight on the back wheel with more and bigger cogs.
You seen SRAM E-Tap Red? For road riding. Completely wireless shifting. www.sram.com/sram/road/family/sram-red-etap
are you joking?
My first proper mountain bike was 2x5. I rode it to the shops last week when I visited the parents. It was horrible.
God I feel like I am living behind the moon with my bike.
- A 3x9, all XT except an SLX front derailleur and FSA crank. It doesn't shift as crisp as my other bike.
- The other one is a 3x10, full XT drivetrain, no issues or complaints. Shifts are crisp and precise.
These may be outdated technology, but I'll be enjoying them for years to come. They work, so why upgrade? I don't earn money riding my bike. I'd rather be spending $ on biking events and trips.
I like seeing this new technology. And when I will need a new bike, it will be a 1x drivetrain. But the goal is enjoying the ride, not feeling down that you're riding an outdated bike.
AHAHAHAHAHA this is coming from the company who gave us the XD Driver, Boost, and help to proliferate the use of pressfit BBs. That is rich. Piss of SRAM.
When it was time to switch her worn out cassette and rings, my lady's bike got the 1x10 treatment - replace the 2 front rings with one narrow/wide (that fits right on the 104BCD crank) and the cassette with a 10sp 11-42 Sunrace cassette. All that works really well with her SLX derailleur and shifter and driver and cranks. Net cost over just replacing parts outright was pretty minimal - and well worth it for the simplicity. She lost a gear at the bottom end (she's not missing it), and one at the top (let's just say that she's definitely not missing those). But she wasn't forced by the evil industry to go 1x - she could have very cost effectively stayed 2x10, and the parts for that are only getting less expensive as stuff is all of a sudden 'obsolete'.
And my new bike came set up with X1. Nope, not top of the line - but damn, it's really working well. If I have to replace parts, I can go cheaper (GX is becoming super affordable these days). If I really want to go crazy, I can upgrade to X0 when the time comes - yes, that will mean a new shifter and rear derailleur. But since my cranks were thoughtfully spec'd by Kona to be 94BCD, and since I don't need more top end (I've shifted onto the 10t sprocket exactly once, and that was on asphalt, downhill, in an attempt to see what the range actually was), I could always change from my 30T ring to a 28T ring (for under $30 for the basic SRAM NW) and get more bottom end. So there's little upgrade pressure, I have a very nice drivetrain, I'll be able to get replacement parts for years, and now will be able to do so at ever lower prices (for equivalent stuff) or with lower end replacement (if I really want to go cheap and don't mind a bit of extra weight).
The industry is doing lots of stupid stuff related to standards. And some of that is leaving people stranded for replacement parts, making their bikes hard to keep going (think 26" tires and wheels getting harder to get, or limited selection of hubs that will support the old 135mm QR standards, etc.). But drivetrains are a rare example of all that refinement (I don't want to call it innovation, as there's no "new" stuff, just refined and better versions of existing concepts) actually working to make current bikes less expensive to maintain or even upgrade.
I think the hub standards are going to change again and more gears will be coming.
So with the 12 speed, as @jonokonko says.. albeit in different words.. if you ARE a stronger rider, could to get a 12 speed 10-42 and have even smoother jumps? like the level of incremental steps given on an 11 speed 11-25 road cassette vs. 11-32, The racers go smaller and the leisure riders go big?...
Would be interesting to see a bit of variation... although whether tis worth the investment is another thing.
Which is the awesome part about a 2-by drivetrain. You have actual choice as to how big the gear jumps should be, where a 1-by is always the same gear spacing (at least for SRAM).
Unlike when SRAM surprised the market with it's initial 1x11 system the competition is MUCH more prepared to compete against this. A whole industry has been created since then and these companies seem well-positioned to adapt their products around the concept of a larger granny gear (whether 10, 11 or 12 speed). Also, the people who are hating on this concept didn't catch the part about being able to run a larger front chain-ring while keeping your climbing gear acceptable.
Finally, Eagle? Why don't you just call it the 'Murica drive-train and be done with it?
You should be excited that your wicked bike is slightly inferior to the current bike because it's kind of hard to imagine bikes getting much better than they already are, but then they always do. It'll keep getting better and better forever. You can't hate on the industry for moving forward.
I think their idea behind it is, you match the 50T rear to your 34/36/+ front in order to optimize your climb speed, and you are left with WAY more high end pedal speed.
Now, looking at this from first hand use of a current 11 speed drivetrain… I use the top 3, the bottom 2 and everything in the middle is whatevs.
I'm digging One-Up's 44T rear cog replacement for the 11 speed, over this Eagle setup. 2 teeth on the rear should gain you an easy 2 up front, putting most guys into a 34T front. With that? I'd have more top end speed than I care to pedal out.
Thoughts?
www.oneupcomponents.com/collections/all-products/products/50t-shark-sprocket-18t-1x11
I think the issue is that a lot of racers are running a 36 up front for races (at least my buddies are, I'm not quite so rad) and then going to a 32 or 34 for training/longer rides. Not that its a big deal switching rings, the 50T just eliminates that need for good.
Then eventually 1x1 DH.
Carbon chain-ring, carbon cassette( can't mess up the hub spacing), Composite printed, crank and pedals.
Extra Value Price 15,999$
People will always cry about change but whatever, this is really good for the sport. Sure it enables people to have really easy gear ratios, but it also enables people to have insanely wide and powerful gear ratios. Or however you want it to be basically. It's a lot of range and the chain/derailleur revisions are a big deal. Cry all you want, that gold cassette is pimper than pimp.
The fact that there's one more gear (i.e. closer ratios) isn't as significant to the average dirt rider as it would to a roadie.
So I'd need: derailleur, cassette, chain, shifter, chainring, AND xd driver??!! I'll stick with Shimano XT 1x11 that I barely put on this past December for about $300 total--or the price of this new Eagle derailleur.
"Any of these things are possible, but we try to understand how much are people going to take, and I think that if you look at things like hub standards right now people have pretty clearly told me they don't want any more... People have had enough"
WRONG. You know what people have had enough of? 4mm this year, 3mm next year. 1 gear this year 1 gear next year...
This incremental shit is exactly what everyone is sick of. Just get it over with already and go 153.33333mm hubs, 14 gears, 40mm bar clamp dia, 1.6" steerer, 81mm BB with 35mm axle and quit f*cking around already.
I am fed up with this, this is going to be after a while dictatorship in bike parts!!!!!!
hardly see the need to need an even wider range tbh, especially not for over $1k!!
Few cogs when defending rough trails due to the unnerving extra noise. (Yes my chain is sized as tight as possible).
All these "advancements" are incremental changes that do not really give the consumer useful choices to say, with their funds, where they value innovation. A true spectrum of choice would be different styles of well implemented drivetrains entirely not adding another, gigantic gear to the cassette and giving is some goofy name.
I understand why they advance these kinds of things rather than other drivetrain options but don't feed us the choices line and expect us to buy it, it is just a farce.
www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Shimano_Eagle_derailleur_(1st_style).html1st_style
so what you're saying is, in order to make the switch to a 12- speed drivetrain, all I need is an ENTIRE NEW DRIVETRAIN.
Thanks.
We're going the same way as we did with longer forks 20+ years ago: Bigger doesn't always = better people.
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1 x 10 already eats chains pretty fast .... 1 x 12 will have be even worse. no thanks
I can't think of an application where this would make sense, are you seriously going to need that much of a range for climbing and descending? if so, what kind of voodoo magic bike are you riding?
$1200-1500 US for this is crazy. this is why I only buy used bikes now. I'll buy a used bike that someone else already did this upgrade IF I decide to adopt what SRAM is telling us we have to have.....
And you thought she hated Jeffsy....Glitter makes the mascara run as fast as he can now climb.....
An article about a new drive train with a 50t cassette, and not a single picture of them climbing with it!
We get the obligatory air shot as per usual and the semi downhill slope picture!
Come on pink bike......
1х10/1х11 will fit most of average consumer needs, and thats awesome that we have different options;
The real thing that I'm willing to see, is more options of the cassettes in 10/11 segment;
10: 11-42; 9-42
11: 9-42/ 9-36 and so on
also more options from hub manufactures regarding cassette drivers options;
Personally I do not need smooth shifting btw larger cogs, however I would prefer 10x cassette with 9-42; from shimano or sram
or new modified derailleurs with shorter cages for the following cassettes
Also SRAM does not have multi gear shift which is ridiculous on such cassetes
Will there be a Fat Bike compatible Eagle crankset?
Move to 2mm and keep the same chain strength, allowing more cogs in less width.
Oh it will requires steel cogs and platter for sure, as Aluminium could bend with such width.
I use it to go to work and some flat land stuff too, but so rarely do I need more speed than the 32x11x26" gives, I just don't care about this stuff....
Way cool for somebody I am sure....
Me I will likely run this 10sp 32x11-42 setup till I die.. or something similar as it wears out.
This seems almost perfect for me and the trails I ride. However, I've been wanting to upgrade my XT cassette to the 11-42 just to make a few climbs more "enjoyable"
With the release of 44t and 50t I keep thinking about slapping a 36T on the front and going HAM. I like that idea.
I have a feeling that they knew that Eagle was coming (wasn't that much of a secret), and they preemptively addressed it:
Feb 29, XT cassettes will be available in 11-46 - www.pinkbike.com/news/shimano-tweaks-11-speed-offerings-2016.html
Feb 10, Price dro of high end groups (in USA mostly) - www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2016/02/10/shimano-slashes-component-pricing
The next week, they release the SB6 and discontinue any 26" in their lineup
Now this..... You know what cycling industry, f*ck you
that was a looong time ago now look at this crazy 12 speed stuff. bet i could set one of these up ghetto and itll work fine
10-12-14-15-16-17-18-20-23-27-32-40 with a 42t chainring, preferably 110 and 130bcd chainring standards so stupid-light cranks still work.
electronic shift availability desired so I can shift from the aero or the drops.
At 61 I need near 1:1 just to get up my driveway, which I used to do in 50-18 fixed. And I need aero so I can still average 19mph to work on the best days. Look at the desired cogs; the 42-16 is what you would use for 19-20 mph, right in the middle of the close ratio.
I have a rohloff, bought 15 years ago; the bottom 7 gears are joyless riding and life is much better when the bike is a joy to ride.
Yes I know proper shifting technology started on the mountain and progressed to the road. Let it happen again.
Where do you sit on this curve? My money says the late end, but you will - I'm sure prove - me wrong
If I install a new chainring (XX1 or XO1 12-s) on my current XX1 cranks (actually with 11-s chainring), and install the new components X01 Eagle or XX1 Eagle 12-s (chain, derailleur and cassette), it should work properly. What do think about?
I'm currently running 34 x One-Up 44, so I could go to a 38t front with this beast and give the mid range gears a better work out
Then again does when does adding gears start to add little to no benefit and actually start to hurt the products strength and performance? How big will hub spacing have to get? When is it we will just get smaller and smaller gaps between gears? Is the latter already upon us?
For now my ten speed drivetrain suffices for me, but I am also not the one you would market brand new products to. Especially if they offer little to no benefit over cheap used parts.
We don't like proprietary parts! It only limits us to what we can use and that sucks! I ride your 1x11 Sram drivetrain which needs a XD driver that doesn't provide any added benefits except I have to pay extra for more SRAM parts. I can't switch to Shimano unless pay more for parts. Your cassettes, chainrings, and whole drivetrain parts are over priced and wear out easily. Quality doesn't meet the standards of other bike components.
As a side note, I ride a giant with a 1.5 steer tube. No company in their right mind is going to make that size stem and no other companies are following this trend. Do I feel a difference from a taper steer tube? No. I had to buy an overpriced stem from Giant.
STOP IT WITH THESE TWEAKS THAT DON'T DO ANYTHING!!
I'm going out to ride now.
Peace out!
I still wish 10 speed was getting more refined, not the newest 12 speed system.
CHUCK: Hmmm? ... ... ... I've got it!! Introduce another gear!
CEO: Brilliant!!!
I can't speak for the XX1 as I haven't tested it yet, but the X01 is flawed.
Someone explain this shit?
(Won't comment on the ridiculous switch to 12 speed: what a joke!)
11 12 13 14..
but good looking drivetrain..are they still shining after get in the muddy track?
11 12 13 14..
but good looking drivetrain..are they still shining after get in the muddy track?
Huge marketing miss!
ps: thanks for the write-up!
Front mech with perfect indexing and less unsprung weight in the back.
i can use a 50 t cog to ride up & over my wood piles in the backyard!
sweet!
Each one more up-dated than the last.
F*ck this.
Going to Motocross.
Isn't anyone worried about that thing getting smacked around on the trail?
its "RACUN" Lol
Can you clarify if you can use a 1x11 chainring with eagle or do you have to change the chainring as well?
"Boss, the new 12 speed is ready. Shall we announce it?"
"No, we better wait until after Shimano kick our arse with their first 11 speed groupset. That way the dentists will still think we are the best."
"Good plan Boss, we could even paint it gold and charge more for it!"
What inclines are people riding up? 34t chainring with a 10 speed cassette with top cog been a 23t. This is my only bike and it's a pivot point 4x, the only thing I struggle on with climbs is the low seat height.
Mechanical efficiency.
I think the real problem is derailleurs are, despite the holy war between sram and shimano, really fuggin good these days. About their only two failings are shifting under load and vulnerability to rocks.
Gearboxes, while neat and awesome, are still heavy, inherently less efficient, and a bit of a challenge for frame design.
Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than a gearbox that, while maybe being a bit pricier than the derailleur setup, could match them for efficiency and compatibility, but that's asking for a huge amount of engineering fairy dust. Dunno, I've though of some ideas but there's always obstacles.
And @bananowy : my money is on singlespeeds. And "good'ol" 1x10. I just think that with the current level of engineering displaying on this really nice Eagle group the two big of transmission could certainly put on the market a fuc**ing good gearbox.
I'll never use anything other than my pick > 2x > 3x> 1x10>11>12> is stupid marketing.
Anyone who doesn't use insert massive front chain ring> single speed is week and pathetic.
That about covers it.
Oh yeah forgot about
Wheel insert number> is lame
You mean you truly don't know the history of SRAM. I'm waiting to learn?