A Deeper Look at SRAM's Patent Application For a Wireless Automatic Suspension Controller

Jun 23, 2021
by Seb Stott  

SRAM has published a patent application for an electronic and wireless suspension controller, which could be used with sensors to automatically adjust the compression damping of the rear shock. The patent was filed in December 2019 and published in June this year.

Of course this is not the first system to promise seamless and automatic adjustment of a bike's suspension.Fox Live valve has been around since 2018, and RockShox, along with Lapierre and Ghost, showed off their e.i system as early as 2012, but that's no longer available. So what makes this different?

Fox
Ghost AMR with e.i electronic suspension and RockShox Monarch RT3 shock
Both Live Valve and e.i offer noticeable benefits, but downsides too. Neither caught on in a big way.

It's Wireless

Both Fox Live Valve and e.i use wires to connect the various sensors (accelerometers and, in the case of e.i, a pedaling sensor) to the shock via a separate frame mounted battery/controller. This meant that, in both cases, it wasn't compatible with many frames. SRAM's new system appears to be a self-contained unit (battery and all) that sits on top of the shock. That means it should be possible to mount it to almost any frame.

It looks like the electronic controller won't work with existing shocks, as the architecture of the head valve (at the top of the piggyback) is quite different, but the controller is removable and replaceable. I'd be interested to see if it's possible to replace the electronic controller with a manual adjuster, in case of failure or a flat battery, or to allow one shock design to work with the electronic actuator or a manual dial.

The electronic controller is removable.

It Has at Least Three Settings

Instead of using a solenoid to toggle the compression circuits in the shock and fork between fully open and fully closed like Fox's Live Valve, SRAM's system uses a rotating electric motor and a system of gears to turn a threaded plunger, which then moves into or out of the shock's head valve. The patent art depicts three settings for the plunger. Open, where oil is allowed to flow past the plunger and through a port below; partially closed, where the plunger closes off the port but allows oil to flow through the parallel high-speed shims, and closed, where oil can't flow through either of these paths and is forced to go through the lockout shims above. How oil flow is regulated is nothing unusual. It's how the shock/controller changes between the three modes that's different.

The three states of the compression assembly: (from left to right) open, partially closed and closed. The arrow on the left of each diagram is the compression oil flow path; the arrow on the right is rebound. When the plunger (924) is at the top, oil can flow freely through the low-speed port; in the middle position, the port is closed, but the oil can flow through the high-speed shim stack (916); and in the closed position (right), the oil is forced to flow through the lockout threshold valve (912).

I say "at least three" modes because it might be possible to minutely adjust the position of the plunger in the open mode, without fully closing the port, in order to fine-tune the low-speed damping in a sliding-scale sort of way. The patent document doesn't go into this, so this is pure speculation, but that could allow the shock to be fine-tuned to the terrain at hand while descending, either by automatic sensors and an algorithm, or by a bar-mounted controller. You could imagine, for example, the system automatically firming up the compression just a few clicks on a smooth flow trail, or if it detects you've been in the air a long time suggesting a big landing is imminent.

However, there are a couple of reasons to doubt this "sliding scale" theory. Most importantly, the patent doesn't explicitly talk about a graduated scale, and the power requirements to regularly adjust the valve position might be too much for a small battery if you want to have a reasonable battery life. So while the sliding scale adjustability might be possible with this screw-in plunger, I think it's more likely that the system is intended to switch between three distinct compression settings.


It May Use Both Rider & Terrain Input to Determine Settings

The document is fairly detailed on the system's output (how it can control the compression damping) but it's less clear on what the system's inputs would be.

It does mention a handlebar-mounted remote that could manually control the shock. Anyone who's ridden - or indeed looked at - a Scott TwinLoc bike will appreciate the benefit of a wireless lockout system over current offerings, but this isn't exactly groundbreaking. The patent refers to automatic adjustment of the suspension, but remains vague: "the bicycle may have one or more sensors to measure and/or detect various parameters ... e.g. speed of the bicycle, a pitch angle of the bicycle, a crank assembly torque, etc."

So while Fox's Live Valve takes input from accelerometers in the fork, swingarm and frame, opening the shocks if vibrations are detected, it looks likely SRAM's system will be using speed, pitch and pedaling sensors as inputs which feed into an algorithm to decide what to do with the damper. There may be other inputs, perhaps including an accelerometer on the fork which can detect bumps and open up the shock before said bump reaches the rear wheel. After all, this is how the e.i. system worked.

The patent doesn't refer to a controller for the fork, but a wireless symbol is seen on the top of the fork in one image, so this could suggest an input sensor/transmitter on the fork (e.g. an accelerometer) which might communicate with the shock controller. The same drawing shows two wireless symbols on the stem, which could be a central computer and/or a manual remote switch.

The wireless symbol on the fork top cap could be an accelerometer communicating with the shock.

The phrase "crank assembly torque" is particularly interesting. E.i. used a simple magnetic cadence sensor in the bottom bracket to detect when the rider was pedaling and opened the compression damping whenever pedaling stopped. A torque sensor might do the same job but with a faster reaction time, making it harder to catch the system out.

I also found this patent for a crank sensor, which also was filed by SRAM in 2019 and published in 2021. It's not a torque sensor, but it is claimed to fit inside a crank axle and "measure angular velocity or position [of the crank] in less than a single revolution of the crank axle" In other words, it would detect pedaling faster than a magnet in the BB, which only detects pedaling once per revolution. Here's the really juicy bit: "The apparatus also may include a wireless transmitter to communicate with another component, such as a suspension controller."

So perhaps this crank sensor is one of many possible inputs for the suspension controller. It may work like an updated version of e.i., with faster pedal detection, three (or possibly more) compression modes, and no wires. It could be that SRAM are aiming towards a complete wireless ecosystem, building on their existing wireless AXS gearing and dropper post. Perhaps the wireless shock controller could be used with an array of detectors (cadence/torque, speed, accelerometers, bar-mounted remotes etc.), and be configures to respond to multiple different input sensors at once, adjusting the shock to suit the terrain and/or what the rider is doing.


Disclaimer

To be clear, I don't know anything about this product other than what I can glean from the patents linked in this article. I don't know if the product will launch tomorrow, or in a year, or never. And of course, much of the speculation I've made about how it might work could be way off.

With that in mind, feel free to have a look through the patent document yourself (I'd recommend a strong coffee first) and let us know how you think it could work in the comments.


Editor's note: There have been accusations of journalistic impropriety regarding this article from Wheel Based. Dan at Wheel Based wrote an article about this patent before us, and he feels that we've taken inspiration and information from him without credit. We didn't do that, and I've personally reached out to him to try to get on the same page, and offered to show him some information on how we got our info. We've acted in good faith, but I should apologize for our salty pushback in the comments. I understand how it could seem like we're just ripping off the little guy, but it's really disappointing to see people attack Seb's hard work when that's not the case.

We didn't get onto this patent through the Wheel Based story. We have plenty of sources. I've been aware of and chasing down info on this shock since 2019, and we go looking for new patents on a regular basis. In this instance, digging into whether this dropper post on Nino's bike is a new RockShox product (before this patent was public), got me some information on this project that lead to this patent. We've been writing patent-based articles since 2018 (likely earlier, but that's the earliest one that comes to mind), and it's a common practice across cycling media. Never mind that, being first doesn't grant exclusivity on a topic; we don't get mad when other media outlets report on a bike we spotted and reported on first, and we're not going to get mad if Wheel Based ever talks about the pedal sensor patent we're the first to assess in this article.

We're always keen to work with people and our policy is always to give credit when our reporting is coming from somewhere else. Whether it's Vital or Bike Mag/Beta or Bicycle Retailer or users here, we're not insecure about credit. We have had communications with Wheel Based in the past, but not for quite a while now. Dan is a smart guy doing interesting stuff, and while I don't agree with some of his assessments, he's been quicker than us to look at several patents. All the power to him—I need to improve our systems to monitor the major players' filings. If we ever come to a story through him or build off of his work, we will absolutely give credit, but he doesn't have exclusivity on assessing public patents.

Several of Dan's comments have been deleted for violating our TOS, but he's welcome to criticize us or give his perspective. I appreciate having his voice on the site, and I'm hoping to have constructive dialogue with him.

And finally, I'm looking at his analysis now, and he has come to some very different conclusions than we did—for example, he didn't mention the pedaling sensor patent, and from my limited understanding he seems to think this is going to be a terrain-reading system while we think it'll be based more on rider input. I believe people who read our respective stories closely can see that they're independent takes on publicly available information.

I hope this helps shed some light on our perspective. Regardless of if you think we're in the right or wrong here, please don't attack Seb Stott for it. He's not a thief, trash, scum or any of the things being said. I'm the one who's responsible for assigning him to analyze that patent and write a story, so if you've got a problem with our approach, blame me. And by all means if you enjoy his work go follow Wheel Based. It's all cool bike stuff, and I'm genuinely excited to see what this technology looks like if and when it comes to market.

Thank you,
Brian Park, Head of Editorial



169 Comments

  • 138 6
 Maybe if livevalve didn’t cost a metric crapload of money it might have caught on. Just a hunch.

For me, I don’t want any batteries on my bike, whether derailleur, suspension, or moped but I am probably not representative of the mainstream
  • 37 5
 ...you assume this won't also cost a metric crapload of money...because I got the opposite impression, its going to cost a a metric crapload of money to basically get a more pure wireless version of Fox's setup. I'm with you on the batteries on the bikes...I don't want something I need something else I need to charge in addition to my phone, watch, and lights. Going out on a ride should not feel like your about to launch the space shuttle
  • 4 4
 @SATN-XC: You are both right - as a person new to MTN and all that jazz, my initial foray into AXS is what it is..that said, more so than the batteries, IMO - they collectively need to make up their minds (PTL, PUL) Push to Lock, Push to Unlock...both RockShox and Fox...why, oh why cant a brand keep at least THAT consistent?

That said, given a chance, my new bike would been Live Valve. But, it has to have special things built into the frame. I did tear of the RS shock from it for a customized Fox...and then...well, SC34 is PTL, rear is PTU...and I hate all suspension companies. I use my lock out all the time, all the time....
  • 8 1
 It would be smart to add a self powering system to a shock, as absorbing Kinect energy is it's sole purpose, so it would be truly free of cables and chargers.
  • 9 4
 Suspension lockout is the only place I'd want electronics because it's the only place it could fail and not ruin a ride (assuming it defaults to open). You can't say that about dropper or gears.
  • 5 0
 @Caiokv: And free of the laws of thermodynamics...
  • 2 0
 @mattg95: If it doesn't have a manual external adjustment, that could also ruin a ride. Imagine it goes full closed on compression. Ooof
  • 20 15
 maybe if pinkbike didnt steal articles from wheelbased they would be a little less shitty
  • 5 9
flag Tamerw (Jun 23, 2021 at 18:47) (Below Threshold)
 @mattg95: I agree that your electronic dropper or derailer not working would ruin a ride. But the flaw in that argument is that that happens to traditional droppers and drivetrains too. A few months ago my acoustic dropper got stuck up and I had to ride the downhill with it up. And I am constantly smashing my derailer on the ground so my chain falls into my spokes while I am riding quite often.
  • 3 4
 @mattg95: Have u tried the dropper post or shifting? It's awesome. Expensive but awesome. for somebody who's been around for awhile it's a gamechanger when your a gearhead. with the proliferation of e-bikes biking will become much more integrated and it will be more fun. Analog (lol) bikes are way cool, but as technology advances so will bikes with batteries.
  • 1 0
 @Thisisscott: I expressed myself badly, but you get the point.
  • 2 1
 I wouldnt mind the batteries really. there are a few other things to think about. 1. price, everything with a battery for bikes is stupidly expensive. those AXS sets, the wireless dropper you name it. theyre making BIG money off you. If anything breaks you can forget cheap repairs as well. no cheap deraillers anymore. you have to buy the electric one. and they all cost a fortune. 2. standards. this isnt a problem today regarding batteries. but i bet in a few years there will be more groupsets etc in the market. I seriously question if old batteries will fit new components. knowing the bike industry by now. this isnt unlikely.
  • 11 1
 @Tamerw: downvote for saying 'acoustic dropper'
  • 1 0
 @Tamerw: sure, mechanical drivetrains and droppers fail. But speaking for myself, I think electronic ones would fail much more often simply from me forgetting to charge them. Assuming it defaults to open, it should be entirely possible to go for a ride with a non-charged lockout system
  • 1 0
 @RecklessJack: $$$ now but there will be eastern knock offs in just a few short years that will cost far less and be almost as good. Just take dropper posts and consumer appliance electronics as examples... I'm not saying that doesn't have its own downsides, but paying for the latest technology at the forefront of development is always going to be and always has been expensive.
  • 1 1
 @Caiokv: I agree with your thinking here. And, if not from the shocks directly, then maybe from the giant hamster wheel that is a person on a bicycle... I mean, these electronics aren't exactly using massive amounts of power are they? Some kind of concentric spinning magnet system in a bottom bracket as a random idea...
  • 2 3
 @Tamerw: You should try learning to ride a mountain bike. If you do you'll smash your derailleur much less often or maybe not at all, and you'll be better at maneuvering your bike so downhills with a full up seatpost will only be a minor inconvenience.
  • 1 0
 @Kimbers: oh that’s why
  • 1 1
 Do you ride with a candle if you ride at night?
  • 59 2
 Doesn't matter how sophisticated the suspension is...with a head angle that steep, it's gonna suck on the descents.
  • 19 1
 hey now, my 69 (nice) degree head angle is fine
  • 4 8
flag CamC127 (Jun 23, 2021 at 14:24) (Below Threshold)
 @mior: if you never point it downhill, sure
  • 3 0
 @mior: niiiice
  • 11 10
 maybe if pinkbike didnt steal articles from wheelbased they would be a little less shitty
  • 97 58
 Am I missing something? No credit to Dan Bacon from www.wheelbased.com who brought this to people’s attention last week?????????
  • 63 18
 Thank you dude
  • 90 87
 @Cord1, it's not very hard to type in "SRAM LLC" into the patent search box; it's something we do occasionally, and will continue to do in order to get glimpses of what might be coming down the road.

Give it a try yourself if you'd like: patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html
  • 50 46
 @mikekazimer:

That’s a shit excuse. Borderline plagerism. Do better pinkbike. This feels dirty.
  • 99 46
 @Frontrange, there's zero plagiarism happening here - the patent application is public record, and the words and analysis are 100% Seb Stott's.
  • 37 20
 @mikekazimer: It does seem a little suspect from people that follow Wheelbased to see something he writes about appear here just a few days after he posts. (on more than one occasion) Just seems like there should be some credit given somewhere since we probably wouldn't have the Pinkbike version if Wheelbased hadn't posted his.
  • 42 19
 @mikekazimer: clearly there's zero *actual* plagiarism. There is also zero journalistic integrity though.

It might be public information, and this article may well be independently written, but it's easy to put 2+2 together and work out where the inspiration for this "analysis" has come from.
  • 31 10
 @mikekazimer: If there is no rip off occurring then how come every single pink bike patent article lately is on the same subject as wheelbased and coming a few days after the wheelbased article?
  • 16 9
 @mikekazimer: but, you are using someone else's work to inform your article topics
  • 15 26
flag pbullard2017 (Jun 23, 2021 at 19:16) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: I remember the last time I saw real journalism on PB, and the author was Paul Aston
  • 51 21
 I'm sure everyone will pile on here, but I'm ultimately responsible for Seb getting assigned this patent story.

I have been aware of and chasing information about this shock since 2019. We keep an eye on patent filings from all the major players. I'm obviously not giving up specific sources on this one, but I can assure you it wasn't Wheel Based.

He does interesting stuff, we've discussed working with him in the past, and I'm stoked that people are digging into patents, it's fun stuff. Either way, everyone's mad so I guess we're taking the L and moving on. Smile
  • 8 19
flag Cord1 (Jun 24, 2021 at 0:43) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: Wow, from that salty ass reply, I’ll guess it hit a nerve. Like teacher said after I got caught copying someone else’s homework “The only person your cheating is yourself”
Keep up the good work Pinkbike.
  • 1 0
 @Frontrange: there are other options..........
  • 7 26
flag parkisatool (Jun 24, 2021 at 3:58) (Below Threshold)
 @JoeRSB: lmao are you calling kazimer a journalist? He's just a salty ass blogger with no ethics
  • 5 4
 @parkisatool: and you are a tool?
  • 33 3
 Have you all lost your minds? In what world does the first media outlet who covers a story get exclusive rights to do so? Pretty sure it's normal for a publication to write their own story about a current event even if they're a bit late to the party.
  • 43 5
 Read the wheelbased.com report after reading PB's write-up. Both touch on the same topic but they are two completely different articles that discuss the same matter from two different standpoints. I actually found the PB one more in-depth and that's not a knock on wheelbased's reporting, both were good. Everyone needs to chill on the plagiarism claims b/c there is nothing of the sort going on. Just b/c one website was the first to report on information that is publicly available does not mean every subsequent article written on the matter needs to make a shout-out to the first one who published. If "JOE" goes to the park and sees a rare flower growing and writes a blog about it then "MIKE" after reading JOE's article goes to the same park and sees the same flower and writes his own blog on the subject....that's NOT plagiarism, its called reporting on information that is publicly accessible. If there was a word for word copy of language used in JOE's blog in MIKE's, that would be plagiarism, but that is not what is going on. I get the need/desire to defend the little guy but not sure PB deserves the hate. Furthermore, there was nothing in PB's article claiming this was an "exclusive report" or "first time disclosure." Everyone needs to R..E..L..A..X
  • 4 12
flag MrJwoj (Jun 24, 2021 at 10:47) (Below Threshold)
 @SATN-XC: @SATN-XC: Sure, maybe if this was the first time it happened one could think that way, but this is like the 4th time a pb article comes up just days after the other wb one on the exact same topic.
  • 14 1
 @MrJwoj: because it's public information! Not proprietary research. Pinkbike doesn't have to beat him to publish to have every right to also write about it. Your argument makes no sense.
  • 10 1
 @MrJwoj: I don't believe you read my comment. I does not matter if wheelbase beats PB to the punch on a 1,000 articles discussing patents, its not a race nor is PB reusing the analysis of the matter published by wheelbase. There is literally nothing wrong with PB's reporting on this matter. Let me give another analogy....you discover a great BBQ joint hidden away in some city and write up a review on their food. I read your review (or simply see the listing on google maps) and decide to check it out. I eat there and then write up my own review using my own words and opinions...do I need to credit you? No, absolutely not.
  • 9 2
 @MrJwoj: from wheelbase...."I’m not accusing anyone of explicit plagiarism. But, I’m having a very hard time believing they just happened to pick four straight topics that overlap with my research – those are some incredibly low odds." Thing is, even if PB did get the idea for the article based on wheelbase's research, its not plagiarism nor is it even bad faith. Show me where PB reused original source material (images, analysis, calculations) generated exclusively by wheelbase (and not otherwise publicly available). This entire thing is ridiculous.
  • 3 11
flag bedell99 (Jun 24, 2021 at 11:41) (Below Threshold)
 Hey PB, got to give some credit to Wheelbased. So odd not to give at least credit and note the differences in the article.
  • 11 2
 I've never heard of wheelbased before. So he runs a blog focused on reporting on bicycle industry patents and everybody is salty that 4 times he has reported on something before pinkbike wrote an article on the same patent? Just looking at the timing of the articles, it looks to me like he checks for patents every week (or more) and pinkbike checks every month or two. I honestly would be more surprised if he didn't beat pinkbike to the punch on every single one of these patents. That doesn't mean that Pinkbike is doing anything improper.
  • 5 0
 @MrJwoj: Yeah that's a completely illogical argument. When the largest manufacturers of cycling products releases new patents the largest media outlet of cycling is going to cover them. The fact that they are in no rush to report on things that may or may not ever even make it to market doesn't make it a coincidence.
  • 7 5
 @texascrane: I think what a lot of people would like to see is,

"We here at Pinkbike were alerted about the existence of a new patent filed by SRAM from an article on Wheelbased.com. Here is our take. . ."

gives credit to wheelbased for bringing the patent up while also affirming that their take is their own research on the patent.
  • 8 0
 @Spencermon: if that’s where they find out about the patent, cool. But what if they check the patent website once a month or so, find an interesting patent and write a story on it? Just about anything they write is already going to have an article on wheelebased because he’s checking every day or two - that doesn’t mean that he’s their source.
  • 8 0
 @Spencermon: also, I don’t find “they wrote about a patent 6 weeks after I wrote about a different but related patent” to be a very compelling argument that pinkbike is ripping off another site.
  • 3 0
 @texascrane: ^^^this.
  • 5 0
 @texascrane: yeah, the more I think about this and look at things, it may be that there has just been increased interest in patents brought on by Wheelbased, but that Pinkbike is not necessarily getting their ideas from him, but rather noticing the engagement that patent based articles get and creating more. Of course Wheelbased will have more patent articles and be more up to date with them since that's all he does.

so, after reviewing, I think I agree more with you.
  • 33 0
 Oh great, now I can improperly set my shock up via my phone instead of randomly turning dials with a wrench.
  • 5 0
 If you've ever seen or used a Shockwiz, you'll know in a way that's already viable. The shockwiz talks via Bluetooth and of course you currently then have to adjust the dials, but it tells you to what settings. This has been invaluable for me in recent years as my son has gone from frame to frame and from small jumps to big gaps, it's helped both of us with feel and knowledge as to what suspension is doing and also removed some of the "have i really go this right" questions every time. We're now getting to the stage where we can set the bike up ourselves and the Shockwiz only verifies we've got it correct when we put it on, which is a massive help.
  • 19 0
 Even without the pedaling sensor, a feature to firm up the suspension when the dropper is fully extended will be helpful on some of these long travel enduro bikes. So I could see this being introduced in phases, initially just linked to the dropper, then linked to the torque sensor, and then finally to a fork accelerometer.
  • 17 0
 I'm surprised nobody has just made a straight forward wireless shock/fork lock-out to get rid cable actuated ones. Scott bikes would definitely be much cleaner with such a thing.
  • 6 4
 Honestly that might be an option with this. Fingers crossed.
  • 2 0
 Reliability and longevity are good reasons to those that dont buy new bikes that often. The cable for the Reba remote lockout on my 2006 Trance has been replaced once in 14 years and it still worked a treat when I rode it today and last week. The best wireless system will be obsolete in 4-6 years, will be impossible to find parts and will just be likely ditched for a standard fork or shock.
  • 2 0
 Wireless twin-lock??? Dangerholm has entered the chat.
  • 12 1
 This is an interesting area. A lot of time I feel like I'm always making a compromise with rebound and compression settings. I want to bike to be playful and poppy on flowy trail sections, but I also want to survive high speed rock gardens and accidentals drops to flat. I've been curious about how it would be to ride with something like a suspension clutch. Pull it in to tighten/speed things up for fun, then let it out to get out of trouble.

I have no idea how to best integrate a hand control, or if this would be as fun as I imagine, but this article is the first thing I've seen that is remotely related.
  • 1 0
 hadn't thought of that, I love it. Maybe instead of it being spring loaded it could be a little slide next to the grip that you could just slide up and down in order to adjust shock tune on the fly.
  • 16 1
 I love hardtails more and more every day.
  • 9 0
 Why doesn’t etap wireless suspension adjustment already exist? For XC lockout front and rear suspension. For Enduro/DH maybe firming up compression rear only or front and rear. Those cable lockout mechanisms are horrible and barely function half the time.
  • 12 1
 Anyone who has ever bought AXS has seen this coming. I say bring it on.
  • 5 7
 Just packed my car for a weekend trip, two bikes, two ASX systems...five batteries and two chargers.... ;-)
  • 5 1
 @JustAnotherRiderHere: Sounds like a nightmare.
  • 8 0
 I'll stick with a manual system so I can be assured that in any given scenario, at least one or more of my suspension settings is incorrect!
  • 2 0
 Ha ha. Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.
  • 9 3
 I can’t believe how ridiculous the comments are regarding plagiarism. This is open source material that anyone can find on their own. With the logic that is being used here, every news item of any kind, including bike/product/gear test is stolen from whoever first reports the applicable information. Good on whoever gets there report up first, but that’s all it is—the first one to report it. Of course their will similar things in the second report to the market. They are reporting on the same thing. To say that automatically means theft of reporting is silly. I have always enjoyed any journalism from Seb Scott. His 10 min guide to suspension setup, from “that other” bike site, is still my go to for any new bike. And no, I am not a Pinkbike fanboy. I read all the bike news and reviews from as many sources as possible.
The negative accusers need to just go out and ride and get over it.
  • 8 1
 German BIKE magazine did a "Ze future of ze all terrain fahrrad" article describing a system like this. If I'm not mistaken this was back in 1969,
  • 5 0
 I get my suspension settings from the PB AI comment bot, it is so good I don't need a lock out or electronic adjustment. I will wait to see what it has to say about this before making my own decision.
  • 11 5
 I bet you we see more patent talk on here soon to try and defend there move and what they did to Wheelbased and show you that they supposedly dig through patents themselves
  • 3 0
 This will be a wireless lockout system for xc. With an auto unlock in the event of a hard hit, as in if a rider forgets to unlock it before a descent. Anything else is live valve ish. Which isn't used by any xc racers, or anyone for that matter.
  • 7 0
 Just waiting to see what's in Loic Swedish carbon taco box
  • 7 4
 Swedish fish tacos?
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: fermented stank fish lol. Keen to seen what ohlins is cooking on loic's race bike
  • 4 0
 Are you sure it doesn't just vibrate and they are entering the market with an expensive industrial 'adult toy'?
  • 3 0
 That'll be pretty cool if you can pimp your ride. That way, you can program a button to eject the ride when your friend wants to try out your bike. Wink
  • 3 0
 More than wireless suspension, I want a dropper with a down button that doesn’t require a push from my ass to get it to go down.
  • 2 0
 At first I thought this is crap because live valve was an utter failure and then I remembered AXS vs DI2. Still won't be for me but if past trends continue this will be another smash hit from SRAM/RS.
  • 8 8
 Isn't this what Fox already has on market with its Live Valve system?

EDIT: actually read the article now....so basically a pure wireless version of the Fox Live Valve system which was already a wireless version of simply having lockout controls on your handle bar. gotcha...don't need. Smile
  • 1 0
 Sort of, only this system is wireless. It will likely have AXS integration as well.
  • 1 0
 @seraph: true, but the Fox system was technically wireless in that you didn't have to control the lockout and there were no switches/levers for you to control. There were/are wires connecting the brains to everything else though...which I agree with the article, is a big pain if the setup is not coming directly from the factory like with the Trance X Adv. Pro 29 0. This is basically a more user friendly of that setup.
  • 3 0
 @SATN-XC: I think what's distinctly different about this setup is the potential for it to integrate into the rest of the AXS lineup from SRAM. How about suspension that gets stiffer as you shift into lower gears? And then opens back up as you shift closer to the middle of the cassette? Drivetrain integration sounds pretty cool to me.
  • 9 4
 This seems to have a very different approach than Live Valve. Live Valve is trying to read the terrain and adjusting the suspension accordingly, while what RockShox SEEMS to be doing here is having the system read rider input (are they pedalling, etc.) and adjusting the suspension to that.

To me that SEEMS like a good idea. Live Valve doesn't know you're about to hit a bunch of chunky roots until you start hitting them, while this system COULD just go "okay, the rider stopped pedaling, time to open up" before you even get to those roots.

(mega caveats for speculation)
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: But you're talking milisecs, is it really any different
  • 6 0
 @brianpark: I'm with you on this. I'm guessing semi-automatic, as in input from the crankset etc and perhaps manual adjustment too via handlebar remote. If it was sensor based to read terrain, they most likely would've shown that on the fork lowers or swingarm since that's where you'd want to collect that input from. Also, I'm not sure how it would be fast enough?
So the wireless symbol on top of the fork would be something similar to the rear shock.

Either way, stuff like this and LiveValve is really interesting since we're really just at the beginning. Theoretically you could go anywhere from a "simple" wireless remote and automatic stuff like LiveValve or crank sensor all the way to GPS or even download track specific settings like on a hyper car.
  • 2 0
 @seraph: Okay, that makes sense, was not thinking about it that way. @brianpark also mentions this above. Good info
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: It will be interesting because in biking there's always a balancing act. So if the suspension did firm up under pedaling, what happens when you encounter a techy climb where you want the active suspension? I'm curious to see how this whole thing plays out.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Yes, but live valve works at the speed of light (nearly), .003 second changes if I’m not mistaken. I love my live valve setup, as it just works so fast that is can be in a reactive mode and still be very effective due to its speed of actuation. Now, do I want less cables and the grip damper? Yes. Of course!
  • 14 11
 @brianpark: would be nice to see at least a first reported by to @wheel_based ...
  • 1 1
 "in the middle position, the port is closed, but the oil can flow through the high-speed shim stack"

The oil "must" flow through the shim stack in the middle pos. It "can", and probably does at high shaft speeds, even in the open position.
  • 10 9
 Id rather Rockshox spent their time developing suspension products that don't fall apart, rather than adding extra features (that most people don't need) on top of shitty base products.
  • 4 0
 No, it won't be expensive...
  • 3 0
 Didn’t Noleen do this 20 years ago? I seem to recall piezo electric valving was the magic back then.
  • 3 0
 K2 Smart Shock. It acted more like a Specialized Brain - opening and closing compression based on being bumped.
  • 3 0
 But yeah, Noleen did it for K2.
  • 3 0
 I miss the wild girvin and k2 stuff. What a shame they got shut down.
  • 4 0
 It's finally happening
  • 2 0
 Can't wait to integrate all the bike electronics (shifting, dropper post, suspension, and ringy bell) with Neuralink!
  • 5 6
 So the 40 or so people who follow WheelBased are acting like a preschooler when another kid is playing with their favourite toy. I don't know how to tell you this but it's not your toy! Talk about the vocal minority blowing up the comments section. Sheesh.
  • 3 1
 I would be shocked if there going to be wireless brakes!
  • 2 0
 Looking forward to a group test. This against a Kona Magic Link bike.
  • 1 0
 This is already a problem that's been solved with bikes with a suspension design with high anti-squat values.
  • 4 1
 Full review tomorrow
  • 1 0
 I just want my suspension to firm up when my dropper is up, and maybe have an override button or something.
  • 5 4
 Same. I've been looking into how this might be possible, but an AXS post isn't aware of where it is in the travel so it'll need a separate position sensor. I don't care if someone beats me to this idea, I just want it done.
  • 5 3
 Blah! E-Bike suck No electronic shit on my bikes!
  • 1 0
 So all this time, the bike industry is telling us we've been biking all wrong.....hurry up with the autopilot biking mode!
  • 1 0
 Great another reason to avoid SRAM product. Now we can wirelessly change the non existent range of control.
  • 1 0
 What's up with the derailleur being connected to the lower Horst link on that 20 year old bike?
  • 1 0
 Before we all get excited...
Its SRAM, will it work in wet mud straight out of the box?
....though not
  • 1 0
 does it have 42 way damping ? i think not.
  • 3 3
 How do i block Eshock content. eshocks are for pussys, iv got strong fingers that's can turn nobs.
  • 1 0
 I saw this out in the wild back in Fall 2020.
  • 28 30
 Ya because a “strong coffee” made you see the matrix… def wasn’t @WheelBased post you industry rats
  • 12 17
flag WheelBased (Jun 23, 2021 at 17:13) (Below Threshold)
 Thank you
  • 17 18
 Just hire wheel based at this point.
  • 13 13
 No get vital too, they're chill. @WheelBased deserves better than these pb asshats
  • 7 7
 Rip Seb
  • 15 17
 Common guys, posting this article and not acknowledging wheelbased is pretty sh!tty.
  • 11 12
 Weird I just read about this from Wheel Based...
  • 43 46
 Just cite wheelbased already
  • 14 10
 That’s crazy you mention that…I was going to say it’s interesting how this author writes this a week after he does all the digging and releases his own article, less than shady on Pinkbike’s part. Unsurprising at this point.
  • 18 8
 Yeah… all it takes is a simple link to wheelbased to not be a dick. Unless you’ve also been trawling patent applications @seb-stott
  • 21 8
 Thank you
  • 10 7
 Or the Vital MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation thread, since it seems like PB's primary source of news
  • 13 7
 Yes I saw this days ago on wheelbased. It must be nice to be able to pull off such low effort "journalism" @seb-stott it looks like it may be time to remove my pinkbike bookmark unless they decide to start paying the originator of the content they rip off.
  • 6 8
 @WheelBased: Same greedy bullish*t as when they monetized trail forks
  • 7 5
 Discovering a current event doesn't give you exclusive rights to write articles about it you muppets
  • 3 3
 @sdurant12: they write about patent applications regularly. You must be new here.
  • 4 2
 @pbullard2017: GREEDY?! Do you have any idea what the costs are to develop and run that kind of an app. Yes they used user data to do so. It's called crowdsourcing. Go google that I'll sit here and wait.
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