Spotted: SRAM is Testing Something (But It's Probably Not a Dual Caliper Brake)

Jun 17, 2021
by James Smurthwaite  

We've had a set of spy shots beamed over from the Whistler lift line that seem to show a SRAM test rider with twin caliper brakes fitted to their downhill bike.

Unfortunately, most of the interesting stuff is hidden by a plastic shell but we can take a few educated guesses about what's going on based on what we can see. The most obvious thing to notice is the hose splitter on both brake lines that is used so that one lever can actuate two separate calipers inside the shell. The calipers use a fitting that's similar to SRAM's Level brakes, with a locking nut to attach the hose to the caliper, rather than the banjo that is used on the Code or G2, but we don't know what the lever is at this time.


More calipers, more power?

So why are there two calipers when one does the job just fine for most of us? Well, the most obvious answer would be to increase the power of the brake - twice the calipers, twice the power and twice the heat dissipation.

This isn't the first time we've seen twin calipers on a mountain bike, but traditionally the two calipers have been laid out like a motorbike with each one paired to a separate rotor on opposite sides of the wheel. Those designs didn't catch on in mountain biking though as in reality, riders didn't need that much power at the time.

RAM bike and fork
The RAM URT prototype used twin calipers for its front braking but it was designed for a 6'6" rider who tipped the scales at nearly 290 lbs.

However, with the increasing speeds and weight brought on by 29" downhill bikes or eMTBs, we've seen an arms race for power in the braking world. 200mm rotors simply don't cut it for a large number of riders anymore and 220mm or even 246mm rotors have been developed in recent years.

It could be that SRAM believes two calipers will be better than a larger diameter rotor, but we don't think that's actually what's going on here, and for a number of reasons we don't expect a twin caliper brake to be coming from SRAM in the near future.


It's probably a test rig

We think the more important thing to note is the Quarq Qollector rear disc rotor. We've seen this previously on Cecile Ravanel's bike at the 2017 Val di Sole downhill World Cup but haven't heard much about it since. Four years ago it was being used to measure brake forces, specifically focussing on how much Cecile was dragging her brakes but we've no doubt it could measure other useful metrics.

Having two calipers on the same rotor would allow SRAM to A/B test things like pad wear, modulation, heat dissipation or the performance of two different components. We think it's more likely that we're looking at a brake testing rig that can compare and contrast between setups during a run. Putting both brakes on at the same time allows SRAM to cut out the variables that would change between runs and also save time swapping out parts.

We reached out to SRAM for comment on the photos and they told us they are, "always working on product developments but cannot comment at this time."

What do you think? Is this a clever testing set up or will be all be running four calipers on our bikes in the future?


380 Comments

  • 384 83
 So sram's brake might finally have enough power? Nice.
  • 237 86
 bruh get on the codes you havn't lived
  • 113 34
 Code RSCs are where it’s at
Oh wait… SaInTs ArE tHe BeSt!
  • 45 15
 I weight 225lbs with no gear, and find they have plenty of power with the correct rotor size.
  • 78 17
 And twice the amount of squealing noise. Earmuffs not included.
  • 18 4
 To be honest I'm mostly joking. Mostly. My code rsc's aren't too bad, but even on relatively short (tho steep) descents they seem to heat up and get a little weak.
  • 21 0
 @kcy4130: try galfers 2.0mm rotors and some mtx pads. That combo has taken away every complaint I could ever have about the brakes. They are so phenomenal now
  • 3 0
 @kcy4130: aka no fade, no noise, more power with smooth delivery
  • 4 0
 @kcy4130: Try larger rotors, they will headstock less, and have more area to dissipate heat.
  • 46 9
 @kcy4130: "Aren't too bad" defines my feelings on Codes. They aren't too good either.
  • 6 0
 @jomacba: Same here I'm loving mine
  • 7 5
 @cdkozeluh: codes lol. Trp quads were better lol
  • 7 4
 I have guides and even then I find theres lots of power but bleeding is a bit finnicky and they have to be perfectly bled to get the power
  • 33 67
flag conoat (Jun 17, 2021 at 11:08) (Below Threshold)
 @cdkozeluh: Codes suck. like, the lever pull and fade are worse than any....and f*cking mean any, option from Shimano. Power? sure....for the first 90 sec of a DH run, or until they get wet. Worst part? the RSC's are nearly 300 bucks a pop! You can buy Saint or Hope or Magura for far less and get better power, lever feel, heat dissipation, you f*cking name it....

at this point Sram should just do the honorable thing and commit Seppuku.
  • 11 0
 This is going to get the SRAM brake fans all lathered up.
  • 13 8
 @jomacba: If I need more than 180mm rotors on a trail bike... That kinda indicates that they do in fact lack power.
  • 38 9
 @salespunk: That depends if your comparing the code R to RSC. They are not comparable.
Code RSC fit every catagory such as
-Quality 4/5
-Price
-Durability 4/5
-Stopping power 4/5
-Ease of service 4/5
-Consistency 4/5
-Maintinance 4/5
-Part availability 5/5
-Part pricing 4/5
-Warranty 5/5
I dont feel there is anything truly amazing about them, except they work the way they should 99% of the time. I have broken a pair, and I have had one seize up. SRAM delivered in warranty each time with brand new brakes within a couple days.
From the factory, the assembly is a bit lackluster. With a rebuild and some proper DOT grease on all seals, I have had zero issues beyond the regular service required to maintain them.
I feel there aren't really any other companies that are as consistant in all aspects of the categories mentioned that match SRAM on this. While I do agree other brands do excel in several of the categories, none have provided the same consistency in terms of meeting all that criteria as SRAM. I would love to see some other brands prevail however... But SRAM has set the bar.
  • 3 2
 @salespunk: price was supposed to be 4/5 sorry
  • 23 7
 @stormracing: Naw man, Magura Mt7's are the way to go!!!
  • 20 8
 Codes are the best. Tons of power, consistent bite point, rarely need to be bled, just throw in new pads once in a while and you’re golden.
  • 14 10
 I have Code Rs and I think they are pretty crap. It's impossible for me to get them to bite properly and the lever feels super soft and squishy, unless I take the wheel out and advance the pads, and then the lever is firm but the brakes drag drag slightly which makes an awful noise. The pistons also don't seem to advance as the pad wears, meaning the levers get progressively softer. They also seem to get pretty hot pretty fast and as a result provide inconsistent performance. The bleeding process is also more finicky and time consuming compared with shimano and hope brakes for example.
  • 1 0
 @stormracing: I found them to heat up quickly as well, till I put on Shimano hybrid rotors: tis not been a problem since. Cheap fix
  • 2 1
 @kcy4130: Use sram metallic pads or truck stuff power pads if you want ultimate performance but aren’t bothered about changing pads every other month. Can’t use organic pads pads on steep trails. They just overheat to fast.
  • 16 10
 @its-joe: agree. i am a shimano person through and through. got a new bike that came with R's aswell and wow they're even worse than i remember. they're soooo squishy, each pull is different. i don't understand how it seems pinkbike commenters are so pro sram... whenever i end up with sram brakes i switch them out happily with shimano.
  • 14 2
 @crysvb: Totally!!!
Shimanos or Maguras are the way to go!
Any one out there run maguras too?
  • 6 0
 @stormracing: Those are some nice rotors you have there
  • 3 0
 @Franken-Bike: Until youre levers get sticky youll be rebuilding them every week.
  • 1 1
 @DBone95: I've already put my banana hammock on, just gotta rear way down here to get the soap...
  • 9 2
 @endurogan: I last bled my guides rsc’s over two and half years ago. I should really bleed them but since they’re still working faultlessly, I’ve always had more important things to maintain with my free time. Running 200mm rotors five years old and they never overheat. I’ve flat out abused them best brakes I’ve ever used. I’m not enjoying the race matrix pads I’m currently using though.
  • 6 0
 @kcy4130: Rotor size doesn't always have to do with power, it also has to do with heat. Shimano uses aluminum sandwiched with steel. Aluminum heat soaks and dissipates heat much quicker than steel. Also what is your reasoning behind limiting rotor size? Wheels have gotten bigger... but rotors shouldn't? Your increasing leverage by changing the rotor size.
  • 48 15
 i HOPE, all these people talking about using Codes are joking. that is the wrong FORMULA for a fun time on the trail if you're an AVID rider. i may be a tad HAYES-ey here, but i always remembered every SRAM brake being the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked. now, I'm no SAINT, but i'm being sincere when i try to tell people that the little XTra money they could spend on something else would be worth it. Codes may look the business, but they don't have any of the other TRPpings of the better brands.

MAGURA. (i got nothing for that one)
  • 2 0
 @kcy4130: I've been on different sets of code rsc since 2018. No issues. Just regular maintenance. How often do you bleed them? I do mine every 6 months because I have the kot
  • 5 0
 @crysvb: bleed your brakes lol. I have a set of code r that are great. Little less power than rsc but solid and reliable. Factory bleeds always suck.
  • 8 6
 @makripper: they were just bled and have new pads. they're garbage
  • 2 0
 @crysvb: I've ran saints for years and have a set of new xt but they need more attention and bite wanders. Once I find a way to make them feel like I want and have more consistency then I'll maybe like them more.
  • 1 0
 @its-joe: are you using DOT 3?
  • 3 1
 @crysvb: sounds like someone didn't bleed properly. I find shops hit and miss with most bleeds lol
  • 4 1
 @makripper: same, I have to bleed my XT’s all the time. At the lever at least every five rides.
  • 7 3
 @makripper: to each their own. i'm just surprised that so many people like their sram brakes. i think shimano is far more powerful, they aren't squishy and just all around more reliable. the R's i have now are staying until the pads are dead and i'll be replacing them with shimano. plus the sram levers suck IMO
  • 4 1
 @crysvb: that's air in the system
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: I WANT them to be solid really bad! They feel great half the time. I swap and ride them on shorter rides, then back to code rsc for longer more taxing rides. There must be a way
  • 27 2
 Ahhh good ol' biking tribalism. Pick a brake brand and be a D about it. I'm a bigger rider @ 6'0 and roughly 200lbs. I currently have four bikes (three with disc brakes as the fourth is a BMX). Also I do the work on my wife's and children's bikes who all have Shimano. I have Codes on my primary trail ripper and four piston Deores on my Gravel grinder/commuter/hipster hardtail. Previously rode XT and XTR for years. There was a time when absolutely I couldn't swap out a Sram/Avid brake fast enough. The "Taperbore" years for Sram/Avid were the worst IMO. Hated those finicky things. However, I am currently running Codes. They are great brakes. I intended to swap them but on the advice of a friend left them and gave them a go. While I know bikers love hyperbole and have a hard time accepting that the range of performance we are currently arguing about is tiny compared to the arguments we were having ten or fifteen years ago where some key components did genuinely suck- I would argue the chasm between Sram and Shimano is not as wide as fan boys/girls/[insert pronoun here] for either faction would argue. Both are great brakes with different feels and nuances- both will stop you, allow you to perform, will have blips in quality depending on the exact equipment on your bike...or at least that's my opinion. I loved Shimano and still do but have zero issues with my Codes and am now a fan.
  • 3 0
 @crysvb: do you mean lever blades? An easy upgrade is to rsc lever with the swinglink. Swinglink plus contact adjust kick all the ass
  • 3 0
 @will-burr: Try Koolstop pads or even better Galfer - more power and 99% silent
  • 1 3
 @crysvb: Make sure your pistons are out evenly and loosen your calliper bolts and pull the brake and see if the squish goes it’s an alignment issue. If bled properly you hardly ever have to bleed sram brakes. 9 out of 10 times its alignment that’s got your brakes feeling off with sram. I check alignment before every ride along with tyre pressure.
  • 1 0
 @Johnsonbodie88: There's a fix to permanently fix that. I bought a pair for really cheap that were stuck down and fixed them, haven't had an issue since.
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: what are the Code Rs missing? I've been riding them for the past 3 years and have been happy with them on my Capra 29.
  • 5 0
 @jomacba: It's not so much that they lack power, it's that the braking force (for a given lever pull force) reduces when they get hot. Making it harder to predict how hard I need to brake in a given situation. I've never had that issue with shimano brakes. I wonder if there are some riders who brake by applying a given force and others who brake by pulling to a given distance? Might partly explain the sram vs shimano inconsistent power vs inconsistent bite point shit throwing in the comment section every time brakes come up. Just a thought.
  • 1 1
 @kcy4130: u runin sintered or metallic pads? sounds like a sintered problem
  • 3 0
 And they can sell you twice as many pads
  • 3 0
 @Sweatypants: LOL, I had my popcorn out just waiting to see how you'd SQUEEZE Magura in there. Nicely done.
  • 5 0
 @Franken-Bike: Me! Got MT5s front and back with 180mm rotors. I love them
  • 3 0
 @emiliooo35: Nice! I got a great deal on MT7 HC3's, They are the best!!
  • 2 0
 @lognar: sintered and metallic are the same thing but yeah he needs some sintered or metallic pads.
  • 4 0
 @stormracing: my code RSCs with mtx reds and galfer rotors fade every time on a few fast steep dh trails and I’ve boiled them multiple times as well. Definitely not the best brakes at all, but I can’t deny that they do feel great when they aren’t hot
  • 2 0
 @Bstat918: Use the MTX Golds
  • 1 0
 @stormracing: Do you run red or gold MTX pads?
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: tried trickstuff pads. Loved the power, but they're basically water soluble. Had a couple of dry rides on them, then one wet gritty ride they went straight down to the metal. Back to SRAM sintered for me...
  • 1 0
 @Bstat918: Aren’t those ceramic pads? Try metallic pads they just increase in power as they get hotter until you boil your fluid.
  • 3 0
 @stormracing: that might work for all brakes... MTX on some TRP's went from mild w/ great modulation to stop the F'n world w/ great modulation. MTX are good stuff.
  • 5 0
 @Sweatypants: I zee what you did there.
  • 6 0
 @Bstat918: Have you tried our Pro compound or even our E-Bike compounds pads? They did okay this past weekend in Leogang. 2nd and 3rd on the podium for the elite men
  • 29 5
 Just want to shout out that on a dyno, Codes are as strong as Saints.

Love how often Sram does something neat just to have some hater shit on them for trying. Shimano hasn't updated their DH line in what, 7 years? Stop the fanboyism.
  • 11 0
 @Sweatypants: Ha, you were doing so well until you got to Magura, then you found your pun store was MT.
  • 2 3
 @jojotherider1977: The issue isn't so much the architecture, it's the raw internals. This is the same issue most shimano brakes are plagued with. I'm sure when bleeding your code Rs the brake fluid comes out black. Shimano brakes do the same. This is due to the corrosive nature of the brake fluid and mineral oil. The black your seeing is corroded aluminum accumulated in the fluid, which in turn causes the seals to not seat correctly. This is why shimano brakes and code Rs require more maintenance.
Is you notice and XTR brake or an RSC, the fluid comes out fairly close to the same color as when you initially bled them.
The challenge with the Code Rs is their lifespan. Some work well for a long time, while others shit the bed immediatly. That being said, the swing link does provide better top and power as well as more modulation with a shorter lever throw.
  • 5 9
flag crysvb (Jun 17, 2021 at 13:42) (Below Threshold)
 @snl1200: i mean, i don't think i'm being a dick, i'm just throwing in my experience which is every time i've had sram brakes i've been unhappy with them, shimano has been totally solid for me so yeah, that's what i had to say lol
  • 2 3
 Is this your way of saying you haven't used SRAM brakes since 2015? Thank you for sacrificing your dignity for this joke.
The CODE R have plenty of stopping power, and while they're not as good as my MT7s, they're most of the way there and I wouldn't have any problems riding them on even the most aggressive trails. Are they stellar? Nope, not at all. But, they're quite a bit better than the old Guide brakes and absolutely better than the trash avid brakes.
  • 1 1
 @its-joe:

It sounds like you need someone to teach you how to work on brakes, because mine were never squishy. Even with pads that were almost done. The SRAM CODE brakes are the easiest brakes to bleed on the market because of the caliper bleeder tool.

I do agree the lack of pad advance is annoying as the pads wears.
  • 2 0
 @Bstat918: so I use the gold label from MTX. They do better with heat
  • 2 0
 @suspended-flesh: I use the Gold from MTX
They do a bit better for me with the heat etc
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: I agree, the gold is where it’s at and the best option
  • 1 0
 Are you using the thicker rotors? And what size rotors?
  • 2 0
 @NoriDori: I have some guides on my Reign and had to use Koolstop as a replacement because my shop doesn't have SRAM pads in stock and they're even worse than SRAM
  • 3 0
 @cdkozeluh: That ship sailed long ago. Magura has been my port of choice after I had a Code-burning bonfire last year.
  • 1 0
 Well said lol Smile
  • 2 0
 I've given up on mine and i've got some Hope E4s that are going on instead Smile
  • 2 0
 Freshly serviced from Hope, ready to go Smile no more sram brakes Smile
  • 3 4
 @cdkozeluh: hahaha... my SLX w XTR blow away my Codes w bigger 220 front and a 200 rear out of the damn water! Codes suck balls once they heart up!
  • 1 0
 @its-joe: you bled them though?
  • 7 0
 Srams R&D team sitting in a meeting with marketing "you know those guitars that are like, Double guitars."
  • 1 0
 I assume anyone that has problems with the codes has bought them second hand or just tried them once on their buddy's bikeWink

Last time I had a problem with them was maybe 10 years ago, and they warrantied everything. Rode Whistler 3 months
straight in 2017 without a bleed. New ones have been even more reliable for me.
  • 1 0
 @cdkozeluh: I got upgraded to Codes on my Revel due to guides being out of stock, bruh lemme tell you they’re sweeeeeet
  • 1 2
 Nahhh...as an old user of MT7 I prefer Code...the might have less brake power but way better modulation. It's also noise free and easier to bleed. Good luck aligning the MT7 caliper. They are also super noisy. Magura's bleed kit is a joke.
  • 3 0
 @kcy4130: I've felt this way for a while. Shimano's brakes work like an automotive or motorcycle brake, where braking force is dependent on lever pressure, whereas SRAM's brakes feel like a bicycle cable pull brake, where braking force is dependent on lever position.
  • 2 2
 @BlackVR: rumor has it that the arm pump world champions train on sram brakes. #notfakenews
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: 300mm ??
  • 2 0
 @stormracing: i agree, I got the mtx ceramic pads with 2mm thick magura ebike rotors and they are really good now.

I still bleed them once a month.

Lever rebuild and caliper rebuilds once a year.
  • 1 0
 I just HOPE the figure out the CODE to finally stop making them gobble like a turkey! Noisy a$$ brakes!
  • 1 0
 @makripper: Re-bleed with a less viscous oil than the stock Shimano.
  • 1 0
 @MaplePanda: or just ride Shimano brakes.
  • 3 1
 @SterlingArcher:
You’re joking, but it’s been 3 years now since riding sram brakes and I’m still suffering from wrist and elbow pain as a result of their trademark brake fade.
  • 1 0
 @FaastEddie: Makripper was asking what to do about Shimano brakes that have the bite point issue...
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: so, I bled my brakes august 2020. Rode hard through the fall in all sorts of weather from sun to rain. Then last week after some descents where I didn't feel like is as getting the power I normally do. I installed new pads/rotors. Figured I would do a bleed as well. To my surprise, the fluid was very clear. As I was doing the bleed, I actually couldn't tell when the new fluid was pushing into the second syringe. I can't remember what it looked like last august when I did the bleed.

At any rate, I'm going to look into this swing link. Is that something I can retrofit onto the R?
  • 1 1
 @jojotherider1977: That is definitely surprising, but awesome if that's the case. As I stated, functionally the code Rs work fine. The swing link unfortunately can't be retrofitted. The the lever body requires a second pivot pin located at the flat round spot closer to the lever clamp. I also am not sure if the swing link can be sold separately. But it is the same across the guides and codes.
  • 2 0
 @galferusa: That is the combo I have in my bike,Pro in the front and e-bike in the rear. I had a ton of troubles with the stock SRAM pads in my CODE brakes.
  • 1 0
 @DBone95: it sure did! LMFAO
  • 1 0
 @sherbet: if a product works up to the expectations, no need for an update. Great products last in time! Indeed you should stop your fanboyism (fanatism) for SRAM.
  • 1 0
 @its-joe: I can't speak for SRAMs latest generation of brakes, but their previous codes and XO 4-pot Trail calipers both have the same issue of pistons becoming sticky and not pushing out evenly. This can be improved with regular attention but I agree that getting a good solid bite point without any drag is hard to achieve on these brakes...
  • 1 0
 @MaplePanda: try bleeding with 2.5 wt fork oil
  • 3 0
 @SonofBovril: This issue plagued the early generation guides as well. The issue was the material used for the piston and plunger in the leverbody. It would swell causing it to jam. There are rsdily available G2 intervals available. If your the original owner, and have proof of purchase, sram will warranty those brakes with a current gen. The pisons in the calipers however (if they are phenolic) tend to get brake dust build up which creates a hardened lip. This can be scraped off with a dental pick. Reassemble with dot grease and you should be good to go.
This issue was made worse with their non anodized calipers, as the aluminum woukd corrode and contaminate the brake fluid.
I personally would avoid the sram G2 brakes all together as they are just a cheap version of the older guides with a larger reservoir. The code RSCs seem to be consistant and reliable for the majority of riders. I've yet to see any major issues with them in terms of reliability and performance.
  • 2 0
 @MaplePanda: I highly reccomend bleeding with shimano brake fluid only. DO NOT USE ANY FLUID NOT RECCOMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER, as stated by some.
While in the short term this may work, long term reliability is unknown and could result in failure.
Once you have completed a good bleed. Ensure the brake lines are in a vertical position with the calipers at the lowest point. Apply a zip tie to the lever and compress the pads together on a pad spacer. Allow to sit for 30 minutes to an hour, tapping the brake line every few minutes. Cut the zip tie, and reorientate your brakes. This works most of the time with any brake with a wandering bite point.
  • 3 0
 @jomacba: my experience of my Guide RE has been that they're probably the lowest maintenance component on my bike after the handlebars and cranks! I've bled them once because I thought I ought to. I'm only 75kg, and I'm not a brake dragger, but they coped absolutely fine in Morzine (remember when we were allowed to go abroad? :-(
  • 3 0
 @makripper: change oil to putoline hpx r 2,5. that will solve your problem with wandering bite point. its quite a common hack here in germany. the original oil is a bit too thick and has a low VI which causes a vacuum in the hose for a short period when you release the lever. when you pull it again rapidly youll pump up and overfill the system. very low temperatures make it even worse. i tested it last weekend in a bikepark with servowave levers and it works very well. the bitepoint is soft and the lever has a better modulation, but still all the power when you squeeze it. another hack is to use the cheap deore, non servowave levers. youll sacrifice a bit of max. breaking power but gain a lot of modulation, even with the standard oil. the leverage mechanism of the servowave levers multiplys the wandering bitepoint. maybe you can get back some of the max. power using trickstuff power pads with the non servowave levers. its one thing i still have to test. i already ordered them, but the original sinter pads just last for such a long time.
  • 1 0
 @jojotherider1977: I haven’t bled my guides in over two years. When I eventually get around to bleeding them the fluid will not be black that’s a shimano thing.

Your best bet is to replace the levers with rsc or ultimate levers if you live somewhere where it’s often cold. The rsc levers are a lot better than the standard levers.
  • 3 0
 I was so glad to get rid of the Guide's my enduro bike came with (Yes, Spesh specced Guide's on a 170mm bike) and replace them with XTs. No shite brake fluid. More power and better quality. After 3 years, the Guides were losing paint on the reservoir thanks to fluid seepage I think, one lever piston was sticking (costly rebuild) and the other was also dodgy when it got warm. I think bike shops loved SRAM brakes - more servicing and work to do. In contrast my 8 year old SLX brakes on another bike are far from perfect but still offer more power than the Guides. Code RSC's - hugely expensive for similar power to an SLX or even Deore 4 pot. No thanks SRAM. You are not even close.
  • 1 4
 @headshot: Guides have more power than XT and SLX though they don’t feel like that in the car park due to the poor modulation on shimano brakes though it’s super apparent out on the trails that shimano lack power. Quite a few of the German magazines have tested this if you want to see for yourself. I don’t know what planet your living on to suggest shimano are better quality. Not only do you have to live with the risk of being seriously injured by the random bite point issue, you have to endure noisey brake pads and leaky ceramic pistons and minerals oil.
  • 2 0
 @Sweatypants: I'MA GU RA'id ma bike
  • 1 0
 Must not be going fast enough lol @jomacba:
  • 2 2
 @thenotoriousmic: I don't know where people get this stuff about organic pads heating up faster. Metallic compound pads against metal rotors generate so much more heat. And I've got a full week's Alpine riding out of a single set of good quality organic pads before - because the weather stayed dry.

And organic pads are at least as good as sintered when it comes to power. In fact organic ones usually feel like they have a better initial bite to them.

Wet weather grit & mud is the only reason to ever run sintered pads. Admittedly here in the UK it is a solid reason.
  • 4 1
 @Franziskaner: resin pads lose power at a much, much lower temp than metallic pads. that's the difference.
  • 2 0
 @cdkozeluh: exactly. If you use CODES, you won't live. For long...
  • 3 0
 @Franziskaner: resin or organic pads lose power as they heat up and sometimes glaze over and fail at high temperatures where metallic pads increase in power right up to the point you boil your fluid but if you boil your fluid you’d have glazed you resin / organic pads at that point anyway. 90% of the time you’d be better off on metallic. Just had a great experience using trick stuff power pads which are a resin pad, currently using uberbike race matrix pads which are pretty poor. Once I’ve gone through them I’m going back to metallic pads only.
  • 2 0
 @Franziskaner: organic pads do have more power from cold, you need to get some heat into metallic pads before you get the best out of them.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Thats true, which is why organic pads feel better in the parking lot. To get brakes hot enough for metallic pads takes to surpass organic takes about 10 seconds of braking....
  • 1 2
 @conoat: Nope. Neither sintered or organic pads 'lose power' unless a) you fail to bed them in properly and they glaze, or b) you burn through the pad material down to the backing plate. Most of the time, if your brakes feel like they are fading, it will be the brakes themselves, not the pads.
  • 8 4
 enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy

If your Codes have no power, you set them up incorrectly, didn't bed them correctly, or contaminated them. It's really funny people posting here to talk down on a functional brakeset inadvertently advertising they f*cked up their brake. Guides have certainly had reliability issues. Codes seem mostly uneffected.
  • 4 1
 @sherbet: same argument can be made for people who set up their shimano brakes wrong lol
  • 4 4
 @SterlingArcher: Absolutely correct. Wandering bite point aside, Shimano's stoppers are extremely good. It's just interesting to see people compare Sram and Shimano directly when in most regards, they're pretty similar in power. If you need more power than what a Code offers, you want an MT7, not a Saint. Saints just feel more powerful as they're servowave and the power doesn't come in a linear fashion.

This has all been well known for years, but we still have people sounding off on Sram Codes and praising Shimano Saints. At the end of the day, that complaint is people admitting there was a setup issue that they weren't aware of.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: the fluid may very well be black, but I wouldn't worry about it.
  • 3 0
 @SterlingArcher: Shimano brakes, from what I've experienced don't cool as fast. I guess that's why they have that cooling tech all over the system...
  • 1 0
 @Franziskaner: with metallic pads the metal softens with heat giving more power they’re also quite abrasive so they wear your rotors out fast but always give you a similar effect to a freshly sanded rotor which is one of the reasons they work so well in the wet. Organic pads are basically designed to be less grabby and quieter than metallic pads, they also insulate the pistons. All resin pads will glaze when taken past temperatures they’re not designed for. You’ll probably be fine down south with them but here in the lakes they’re next to useless. I’d show you my rotors from last weekend. Covered in melted pad material. Overheated less than halfway down a two min descent (race matrix). Really steep descent where you have to brake as hard as you can all the way down it.
  • 2 4
 Not in any way are sram brakes nearly as powerful. @sherbet:
  • 5 2
 @freeridejerk888: You see that link I posted earlier? That's literally a dyno test of brakes from 2018. You'll notice the Shimano unit is about 6/7 percent stronger, while the MT7 and otherwise score vastly higher. The factual empirical data is available, and it's more stout than your anecdotes. Codes certainly have enough power for anyone other than the most clydesdale of riders.
  • 2 3
 @sherbet: 83 Nm vs 71.7 Nm (saint vs guide ulitimate) is more like a 16% increase, which is pretty significant. it's pretty obvious in the real world too (anecdotally as you say). even the data used in this example shows sram brakes suck LOL.

so then, flip your own question, why do people put up with arm pump and shitty braking power by buying sram brakes which are more expensive too? fanboy-ism? Wink
  • 3 1
 @SterlingArcher: I don't get arm pump or feel the power is inferior. Arm pump is often caused by improper lever angle.
I run sram brakes for those reasons, adding in their warranty is superior to most on the market, the durability of the brake itself is sufficient. I'm unsure why there is such a distane for any brake brand really. Shimano excellent in one area while sram excellent in another. You need to weigh out the odds subjectively and choose accordingly. Your personal distane and bashing of sram in comparison to shimano followed by the comment "fanboy-ism" is rather ironic. It makes zero differance what brake you choose individually, and any dislike for the brand itself in terms of what they produce is one thing, but calling out others for ther personal choice of what brakes they run is quite comical. Who cares?
  • 1 0
 @SterlingArcher:

Code rsc came on my last bike. Bleeds and rebuilds take awhile to reach the replacement cost of somthing marginally better. Untill I cam really ball.out with trick stuff. I'll make them work for as long as I can.
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: you don’t think that irony is intentional lol ? it’s for the sake of argument - pointing out the original irony. Suppose that nuance is lost in non verbal communication.
  • 2 0
 @thenotoriousmic: LOL you're kidding right. I only ride car parks so it's cool anyway
  • 2 2
 @jomacba: You're dead right about RSC vs R, no comparison. From your list you've omitted modulation or lever feel. Too many people think modulation = power. SRAM brakes have actual modulation. Shimano brakes give it all up on the very first date, and what you get is what you get forever (plus leaky calipers).
  • 2 2
 @Apfelsauce: too many people think power = modulation. Shimano brakes have actual power. Sram brakes are just blueballers, and what you get is what you get forever (arm pump and shitty brakes). LOL
  • 4 0
 @SterlingArcher: 72nm at caliper shows the power is more than plenty. Maybe you forgot skidding isn't the correct way to slay a berm?

Also, again, if you want to talk real power, you want to talk Magura.
  • 1 0
 @headshot: car parks are super underrated.
  • 1 1
 @sherbet: wait but your argument was “what has more power”. Not “is 72Nm considered sufficient for one person versus another”. LOL
  • 1 0
 @sherbet: also if you’re so concerned about skidding and too much power, who cares about any brake more powerful than the shimano, right? Just trying to point out this obvious bias. I ride Trickstuff so I don’t care what u ride. And I never skid berms, unless someday I ride with you, then I’ll do it all day just to piss you off Wink (since you threw that bit in there)
  • 1 0
 @Franken-Bike: I run both, at the same time. LOL Shimano levers and Magura calipers... zero complaints.
  • 3 2
 @SterlingArcher: I never claimed Sram had more power.

I'm a mechanic and get this stuff on my desk. I just find it funny when people shit all over one brand and prop up another, when both work well in real life. I run 2 piston Hope brakes, so vastly less power than anything in discussion here, and they're still more than plenty.

Enjoy the skids I suppose.
  • 2 1
 @sherbet: power doesn’t really mean much if you can’t use it. Try braking late rough loose corner on a set of saints and see how it goes. The reason you can brake better with a set of codes even though they have less power is because they easier to modulate and control.
  • 2 1
 I do this every time I ride and it’s fine. @thenotoriousmic:
  • 2 1
 @sherbet: again I only skid in your presence, just to make you mad
  • 3 1
 @sherbet: you don’t ride fast enough - hence no need for strong brakes
  • 1 0
 @jomacba: rotor size is a highly over looked factor
  • 1 0
 @ripcityBlazer: I would agree
  • 82 1
 Now you can chase your friends down the mountain with the soundtrack of four turkeys instead of just two. This is genius.
  • 5 20
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jun 17, 2021 at 21:59) (Below Threshold)
 This is the silliness they waste their resources on instead of developing a e bike motor with a gearbox, which is obviously the most important development for the future of the sport.
  • 6 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: dude.....be the change you want to see in the world!

I know a patent attorney when your design is ready!!!!!!111!!
  • 1 10
flag DoubleCrownAddict (Jun 18, 2021 at 1:46) (Below Threshold)
 @conoat: I'm not a mechanical engineer, just a writer, researcher, and musician. But I'll continue to think about it and would like to create it, thanks for the encouragement.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: researchers often write and file patents
  • 7 0
 It’s intentional, the two calipers resonate at opposing frequencies and cancel each other out, leaving you free to brake in complete silence. Genius
  • 31 6
 Am I the only person that is fine with the way things are and wants nothing to change ONLY for the sake of change?
  • 65 12
 If there is something in this planet that needs change that´s sram brakes
  • 18 0
 And get off my lawn!
  • 11 1
 @auzb: have you ridden a set of sram brakes (other than guide r) in the past 5 years?
  • 2 0
 @Darwin66: I have G2 RSCs and they're ok, I have to clamp them down hard for a stoppie but its definitely possible and do them all the time, (I weight like 165 - 170lbs). I also run max grips in the rear and can lock them all the time no prob, caveat that I use Galfner Race pads
  • 3 0
 I'm just speculating here, but I bet with two calipers, sram would have any easier time dialing in the completely erratic bite point feature that seems to be so popular on the shimano brakes.
  • 2 1
 I'm with you! They should work on getting the pads and rotors to a lower price point. I am aware of economies of scale, but a set of rotors and pads for my bike costs about the same as a set for my car which is ridiculous
  • 1 0
 @thats-joe: Simply overcharging I imagine.
  • 2 1
 @toast2266: learn how to bleed brakes lol
  • 3 0
 @thats-joe: either you drive a car with super cheap spare parts or prices in the United States vary wildly from them in Germany.

I pay about 30€ for two pairs of trickstuff brakepads and about 60€ for a pair of rotors.

The last time I bought a set of pads and discs for my car I paid about 500€ in total.
  • 2 1
 @SterlingArcher: when it just happens to my brakes, I should learn how to bleed them. When it happens to every single brake shimano has made in the last decade, shimano should hire some new engineers.
  • 1 1
 @toast2266: “every single brake” … not hyperbolic at all!
  • 2 1
 @SterlingArcher: there are two kinds of shimano brakes: those that randomly pull to the bar, and those that will start randomly pulling to the bar next week.
  • 1 1
 @toast2266: okay keep telling yourself that. Hey good luck with all that
  • 1 1
 @SterlingArcher: well, I don't ride shimano brakes, so that means my brakes actually work consistently and reliably. So I guess that's good luck, eh?
  • 1 0
 @Pukeproof: It must be a combination of those factors. I drive an older Subaru Impreza and I paid just over $100 for new pads and rotors all around. A new set of Shimano Zee pads and rotors set me back about $140. Subaru uses similar parts on many vehicles so that probably plays a factor.

The bike brakes are undoubtedly higher quality, but for the amount of material and shipping costs, plus the fact that I'm buying twice as many, I'd expect the prices to be closer to what you quoted.

I think it's super cool of trickstuff to make their consumables that cheap for how high quality their brakes are. I also feel for y'all when it comes to car mods and parts. All I need is a VIN and insurance here, and I could pretty much drive a tin can on wheels. I understand that y'all in Germany have to comply with rigorous inspections and TUV. That said, There's no way I'd drive on an unrestricted autobahn without all cars on the road being in perfect shape
  • 1 0
 @toast2266: weird that my shimano brakes work reliably and consistently. Your skills need to improve is clearly the issue here Smile
  • 1 1
 @SterlingArcher: just wait till next week...
  • 1 0
 @toast2266: twenty years going strong never an issue. You’re doing it wrong
  • 27 9
 So much SRAM hate here.

I've never had anything but great experiences with their 12 speed drivetrains (X01 and new GX), brakes (two sets of Code RSCs) and droppers (four flawless Reverbs).

I've run RS until recently and have always been impressed by their easy setup and great customer support (thanks Fluid Function). Not to mention that they are dead easy to service and the upgrade parts like air springs are under 100 bucks.

Hate all you want but SRAM will be getting my money in the future.
  • 5 2
 Every SRAM article has comments hating on SRAM, every Shimano article has people hating on Shimano. It's actually kind of amazing, I feel like there could be a study conducted on it.
  • 3 2
 Meh. I’ve had mostly bad luck. About 3 droppers let me down along with 2 rear shocks. That and their BB bearings are made of jelly. Their brakes have been good for me but I won’t forgive them the squishy reverbs and leaky monarchs.

That and the fact they keep on changing standards. Now get off my lawn!!!!
  • 3 0
 @vp27: my sram press fit bottom bracket is still going strong after 3 years. I’ve just got 2 and half years out of a gxp cheap threaded bb also, not bad for £20. Less than a set of brake pads. Definitely don’t feel cheated.
  • 2 0
 I once had a GX Eagle derailleur, a Reverb, and a Monarch Plus out for warranty - all at the same time and off the same bike! The latter two have been fine since, but ditched the Eagle for 11 speed.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: Oh yeah, I don’t doubt many people never have any issues at all and their stuff works great. Just my experience. In the same vein, I’ve never suffered from creaky Fox forks whereas I bet it’s turned a lot of other people off. The way of bike gear right.
  • 1 1
 Sram: overpriced stuff that underperforms lol
  • 3 0
 You had me untill flawless reverb.
  • 2 1
 @spinzillathespacelizard: I think reverb users have never tried any other post. Sad cuz the reverb is the shittiest one LOL
  • 4 0
 @SterlingArcher:

It comes OEM on too many bikes. The best thing I can say about them is the warranty is great
  • 2 0
 @Ty927: Magura articles have ZERO people hating on Magura. Magura has 100% satisfaction rating.
  • 20 2
 If it's using both calipers at the same time to " A/B test" it makes no sense. The stronger caliper or higher friction pad compound will do more work and make whatever results meaningless.
  • 17 2
 They may have an on off on the brake line at the caliper to direct the fluid into a single caliper.
  • 5 3
 @jomacba: Though that may be the case, it wouldn't be a true A/B test as there would be too many variables changing at a time. Unless they could somehow guarantee that the flow of fluid to both calipers was the exact same when switching a valve. Even then, the position of the caliper on the caliper mount and the subsequent pad contact points on the disc would confound an A/B test as well.
  • 2 0
 @TET1: Your guess is as good as mine, I was simply providing an educated guess.
  • 3 0
 @jomacba: charging system for wireless? Small turbine presses against rotor and charges battery? Some type of regenerative braking system for bikes… obviously we can’t run a motor as a generator like an electric car but we can scavenge some wasted energy.
Again, just a thought. Looks like there’s definitely not enough gear there but it could still be in very early stages.
  • 2 0
 @gmiller720: Doesn't look electrical to be honest, but we can't rule anything out.
  • 3 0
 Yeah A/B testing seems like overthink.

The front rotor looks standard to me, can’t see any Quarking. And it’s obviously on a DH bike. Dual calliper testing is the simplest explanation
  • 3 0
 Yeah I don't see how a fancy data-collecting rotor could be used for collecting input forces from two calipers "on the same run". The rotor can't tell which calipers is creating what percentage of the forces. You'd have to be doing multiple runs, and valving one caliper or the other on/off, and then comparing the two.
  • 1 0
 @nogirlsatgt: I think if you were going to be measuring the difference between two pad compounds in terms of wear and heat dissipation then this setup would work perfectly. At least for basic benchmarking before doing testing on a different setup where they are independent. Having data from the rotor would be important for providing some clues about why there is a difference if there is any- or rather how each compound responds to different conditions that you can define/quantify through data from the rotor. I think you’re right that A/B testing the caliper itself would be odd, but I’m not an engineer.
  • 3 0
 @bicimane: Different compounds doesn't make sense - disc brakes work by depositing a layer of friction material on the disc surface (this is what you're doing when you "bed in" pads) so that you have friction material on both sides of the interface. Running two different compounds on a single disc is likely to end up with one pad stripping off the layer deposited by the other, but in any case, you're not going to get the same results as you would running them on dedicated discs.
  • 1 0
 @gmiller720: Perhaps as an initial prototype, but I imagine extracting energy from vibration (or even the fork/shock damper!) would ultimately be a better solution. It’s basically free energy.
  • 18 2
 Who had enough grip for this much power? I can lock up my breaks on pretty much anything with single piston, and absolutely anything on dual piston.
  • 9 1
 *brakes
  • 8 0
 Definitely needed on the rear for epic skids.
  • 13 1
 it's about having to pull less hard to lock up the brakes. If I give you a brake with enough power to lock the wheel, but it takes 85lbs of lever pull to do it. cool. but what if I offered you a brake that takes 11lbs of lever pull to do it? which one do you want on a park day? on an epic 5000ft descent? in general?
  • 3 0
 Said every roadie ever about caliper brakes too.
  • 2 0
 @dirtyburger: I think the main thing that got roadies to switch was wet weather performance and heat build up on carbon rims not actual power
  • 3 1
 @jj12jj: and now they’re all crying because they’re tiny callipers with 140mm / 160mm rotors are overheating as they drag them constantly down mountain roads that go on for miles. Honestly they’re a lost cause, XC riders and roadies hate of technology really confuses me.
  • 2 0
 It’s not about lockup, it’s about modulation. When a descent takes several minutes, big rotors and multi piston brakes require less grip strength and handle heat buildup better.

I run 203 rotors and 4 piston calipers, and wouldn’t want to go back to weaker brakes.

If you live in the flatlands-yeah, it’s more brake than is needed. Bolted to more bike than is needed. But for mountain biking in the mountains, big brakes are awesome.
  • 16 0
 Did anyone else immediately look at the hoses to verify they were hoses and not electric cables?
  • 1 0
 Look at the first phot with the raw aluminum Y connector. That's a barb and olive setup.
  • 4 0
 My thought was electric brakes, which sounds scary.
  • 1 0
 Seems like they hydraulic, but I thought "it looks like they've got radiator fans in there", maybe to cool it down
  • 1 0
 One function for wires could be for regenerative braking. Like how hybrid cars store energy from braking action.
  • 8 0
 Could be a true double pad set up to test the real-world upper boundary limit of braking force that the Qollector could possibly see by eliminating brake power as a variable completely.
  • 11 0
 Hold my beer
  • 4 0
 I've got your beer. Now show me what you've got!
  • 4 0
 @vinay: Super Codes
  • 1 0
 @CascadeComponents: Sounds like Schwalbe nomenclature. That's it, just grippier tires? Makes sense actually...
  • 6 0
 Don't quite get the principle of design here. The whole idea with hydro braking power is that the higher the ratio of master cylinder x-section to piston area, the higher the clamping force for a given master cylinder force (just based in pressure being force/area, assume equivalent force, area difference is all that's left). So yeah, massive piston area will give huge power...

But on the other hand, the larger the piston area, the less piston motion per lever motion. So squeezing these to the bar will only move the pistons a tiny amount, right? In other words, wouldn't you have to set the brakes up with the pads basically on the rotor, dragging constantly?

Maybe that doesn't matter for the DH use case...?
  • 9 2
 Unless the master cylinder is engineered to push a proportionally larger volume of fluid for the lever stroke.
  • 2 1
 The Master piston size would/could be larger diameter to move enough fluid easily for the added caliper pistons.
  • 10 0
 @KGR: It is about the ratio. If master:slave = small:big then big lever stroke and a lot of power. If master:slave = big:small then short lever stroke but not much power too. One way to have a short lever stroke and still much power is to either have a short free stroke at the master (so the master piston quickly moves past the port closing off the reservoir) or have the pads close to the disc. Or both, obviously. I trust most brands already try to have the port closed as quickly as possible but for reliability they always need some room. After all, if the master piston doesn't retract enough (and the port stays closed) you basically have a closed brake system. If the oil gets too hot, expands but can't migrate to the reservoir then the brake will slowly lock up. Or on the other hand, if the pads wear quickly but you can't pump them closer to the pads (the automatic pad wear mechanism where the slave pistons slide in the caliper rather than only deform) then your bit point will only become later. Obviously just having a smaller gap between pads and rotor works as long as the rotor is perfectly straight. Rub can be annoying and put off customers. But some people actually prefer the quick bite point at the expense of some rub. For these a closed system would be better, like the Giant MPH (if I recall correctly) or Hope C2 brakes. The only current closed brake I know now is the BFO (Brake Force One) brake. But I can imagine some trials riders use closed system brakes too which I don't know about.

One system that has kind of an elegant solution is the Shimano Servo Wave. It changes the ratio inside the lever so the pads move quickly towards to rotor and when they touch, the ratio shifts so that you get more power. So that's elegant, in theory at least. In practice, it seems quite a few people have issues with this system.
  • 4 0
 @vinay: This guy gets it. Making the master bigger just negates some of the advantage of the big piston area. And the free stroke thing is correct, but you're eating into other margins here.
  • 1 0
 Wouldn’t it be the lower the ratio? You want small master to big slave to get lots of pressure.
  • 1 0
 @MaplePanda: Yeah, flipped it
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Last I checked, "proportionally" does imply "ratio".
  • 12 3
 Guys, this is ABS. Look at the quark spider on the rotor...
  • 3 0
 This was my first thought as well.
  • 7 3
 do you know how ABS works? I assume not....otherwise you wouldn't make this comment based on the photos.
  • 1 0
 If it was ABS I'm pretty sure you'd want the solenoid upstream of the splitter. Not sure if ABS makes sense at all for MTBs of course. Adventure motorcycles have been trying to do it for a long time and they have much more generous SWaP-C parameters.
  • 6 0
 @ProChargedZ28: I refuse to be prevented from skidding!
  • 13 1
 Anyone who thinks ABS is a good idea on mountain bikes should be locked up
  • 3 0
 Normally... more pad area, more heat dissipation, more power or better still consistent power and better feeling, principaly if it is used different piston diameter

Or....

It could be SRAM adopting Honda's Combined Brake System?
Smile
  • 5 0
 2022 Honda RN01 V2 now with combined brakes and V-Tec Minaars podium dominance is just starting
  • 1 0
 @endurogan: LOL! But in that way, SRAM to buy Nissin and dominate 2 wheel brake system? :p
  • 9 1
 1.99 calipers
  • 3 0
 Code rsc imo are an amazing brake second only to my trickstuff maxima. Mt7's are ok but levers kinda flexi/flimsy and not as good feel as code rsc. Got rid of all my saints and new bike with xt were removed and sold instantly.
  • 8 3
 I have code Rs on my 2020 Enduro. Don't see a point in needing more power than that.
  • 7 1
 It had code levers on it I was with the guy who took the pics.
  • 3 0
 I suspect SRAM is testing brake by wire with electric assist and ABS. Power will be able to be selected though their phone app. It’s a wild ass guess but I’m going with it
  • 1 0
 Bosch/Magura actually has an ABS system for heavy/fast commuters with pedal assist. But the ABS system is quite a unit. And I can see it make sense for commuters but not quite for mountainbikes. On a mountainbike you need the brake feedback to get a good idea of what's going on. Seems to me the pulsating sensation of an ABS system messes that up.
  • 3 0
 The split hose actually hides that one of these lines is to bring the regenerative braking power from the second "caliper" to a battery. Theyre testing regen braking for ebikes in the bike park.
  • 2 0
 I’m not sure that your assumption about the reasoning for “twin calipers“ is correct: The likely limiting factor in brake performance is not stopping force, but heat dissipation. I bet that the best set of rear brakes outperform tire adhesion, whereas in a rowdy downhill race, heat dissipation becomes the challenge. I also bet that the twin caliber set up is merely a test rig to see if the extra thermal mass helps on long brutal descents. If they were ever to market this my bet is that they produce one larger caliper, perhaps four pot.
  • 5 0
 New Avid Juicy. Don't quote me on that.
  • 4 0
 They lost the rights to the name and the term juicy is being cancelled.... like the Totem.
  • 1 0
 @bkchef2000: man I’m still so angry about the Totem name being cancelled!

I loved these crazy heavy forks back then and the design was incredible!

Nothing „cultural inappropriate“ there, just an amazing working fork (for the time) that also happens to look the part!

Every oldschool huck to flat freeriders dream died with that ZEB name.
  • 3 0
 Momma always used to say, there’s only one thing better than a brake with a finned caliper. It’s a brake with two finned calipers!
  • 1 0
 I can picture the noise that would make and it looks exactly like a booby trap from the movie Home Alone.
  • 4 1
 Codes and dinner plates = more power than anyone could ever need. If that's not enough for you that means you're riding your brakes WAY too much.
  • 1 0
 Single lever - smart brakes.
Just as the eliminated the need for a second or third chainring, that's what's going on.
Two smart, wireless or not, sensors, on each caliper (similarly to the Fox live valve), will control the stopping power and liquid flow to each one at any given time.
And then you'll have a single brake lever attached to a single shifter (controller), and it'll leave you with a lever less.
Maybe I'm just crazy..
  • 1 0
 I think Grimeca used to have that (their red brakes for mountainbikes). They had a brake with four rear pistons and six front. But two of the opposing front pistons were actually actuated by the rear lever.
  • 4 0
 Managers: „We need to double our revenues.“

Engineers: „Hold my beer!“
  • 1 0
 I don't understand. Why are people so aggressively angry about any brake they don't use? SRAM people hate Shimano. Shimano people hate SRAM. Magura/hope/trp people hate everyone and everything and think they're elite. I've seen people get kicked out of Facebook groups for getting so into brake arguments they result to personal attacks and harrassment. What gives?
  • 3 0
 Has it not occured to anyone that this could just be a genius plan form SRAM to mess with Shimano? Lead them away from what they are really working on?
  • 3 1
 Hilarious conspiracy theory.
  • 1 0
 Publicity, click bait from SRAM?
SRAM will have enough test rigs and setups in the lab to not need this kind of testing in the Whistler bike park queue.

Next for e-bikes... the hysteresis brake as high end motor drives have had them for years.
  • 1 0
 I quickly read through the comments, but if someone already wrote it, sorry.
Maybe it´s just a simple first prototpye to test another way to deal with heat, which is actually to use 2 calibers, or let´s say 2 pairs of brake pads with a bigger distance from each other. The heat directly at the pad area (both pad and disc) is pretty high compared to some centimeters further on the rotor. So you just apply another "brake" where the rotor is cool enought again. I´ve seen this in the batman arkam knight trailer and it actually makes sence (sorry for the long link to the picture)

www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F0MOyWepku_g%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0MOyWepku_g&tbnid=68VA2zYO0qhOuM&vet=12ahUKEwiUkemN96DxAhXEGewKHTjtADoQMygHegUIARC_AQ..i&docid=aVZ2b6gajnA4UM&w=1280&h=720&q=batman%20arcam%20knight%20brake&ved=2ahUKEwiUkemN96DxAhXEGewKHTjtADoQMygHegUIARC_AQ#imgrc=KulIj_sT1QpNfM&imgdii=WwqOgIOcrSD6NM

The best position would acutally be on the oposide side of the rotor. But when you keep weight ratios, price, new standards in mind, maybe a smaller distance like 10cm and smaller cylinders might be a sweet spot here. So they might test different distances and cylinder diameters right now. For that the cover. Maybe just 2 level cylinders mounted on a plate
  • 1 0
 If it is a test rig to minimize variables between brake calipers, I think they introduced a new significant variable. The 2nd caliper in the sweep will have a hotter rotor coming into it than the first as it passed through the other caliper. 180 degrees from each other would make more sense, and I'm not sure how this testing couldn't better be done in the test lab.
  • 1 0
 Call me crazy but I'm satisfied with guide RS that have never been bled (in 2.5 years since the bike was new) with 200mm rotors and metallic pads on the steepest trails in the Midwest (Shepherd Mtn.). you sqeeze em enough and they will lock up... Idk what else i need them to do.
  • 1 0
 I've had a variety of SRAM brakes, with 2 pairs currently active: some old Levels and some new G2s. They all work to varying degrees, but their unifying factor for me is that they make too much noise. And, for a bigger guy, what some people call "modulation", I call lack of power per given rotor size. I'm a wandering bike-point skeptic, and prefer Shimano equivalents at all comparable spec levels. All my opinion, of course YMMV.

With that said, if anyone has a audio clip of a bike with 2 sets of 2-caliper SRAM brakes going downhill in the wet, that could be fun to hear. Wink
  • 1 0
 No dog in this fight, I really like Shimano stuff and would prob spec all shimano if building from scratch. That being said, my bike has all Sram GX drivetrain, Code RCS brakes, Lyrik Ultimate fork and Superdeluxe shock. I have rode the crap out of my bike last season with shuttle and bike park days every weekend and trail rides in between. Rough, rough treatment, hucks, mud, tons of dust, crashes etc.
I haven't touched the drivetrain since the initial break in and it shifts crisply and perfectly every time. I've serviced the fork once and still haven't touched the shock (I know, doing it this weekend), and love the performance.
That being said however, I've bled the brakes five times following SRAM instructions and the feel still sucks. I read a post recently about how to pressurize the caliper at the end of the bleed to get rid of the squish. Going to try that this weekend.
  • 1 0
 I'd think, from a testing perspective, that running two calipers in series on the same rotor would skew the results as the trailing caliper would be getting pre-heated rotor surface from the leading caliper. Changing which caliper is the leading one between front and rear might help even out the difference though.
Twin calipers seems like a step down from just designing a six or eight piston single caliper though this might be a way to test a lever that can displace enough fluid for an upcoming eight piston caliper?

With this much brake on one bike there's definitely a stick-in-the-spokes joke to be made here somewhere.
  • 5 1
 Can’t stop this breaking news from getting out.
  • 4 0
 8 brake pads per bike, brilliant..
  • 5 0
 MO POWA BABEH!!
  • 2 0
 I'm a bit disappointed, I was expecting two calipers on each each side. Not lined up behind each other. We are probably due another hub standard anyway
  • 3 0
 it's so the test rider doesn't know which of the two calipers hidden inside is being used. blind testing!
  • 3 0
 ABS? At a braking threshold measured by the Qarq rotor, the pistons are able to be robot-modulated to not lock up?
  • 1 2
 It would have to be one insanely fast and responsive abs system to work with mtb. Imagine it having to process braking hard over roots while the wheel is always bouncing around.
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: How many ms does the Fox Live Valve have to adjust suspension inputs to control the damping in the fork and shock? In can't be much different in terms of reaction time required. I'm just guessing, but given what they can already do with telemetry and shock valving, Its got to be in the realm of possibility.
  • 1 0
 Would trust that into a steep chute section littered w/ roots, rocks and catch berms. More robots now! Maybe even profile my braking using social media based alhorithms? Finally! My brakes can tell me I need Test therapy and viagra!
  • 1 0
 @PartridgeSkillz: I have absolutely no idea just that it would have to be an impressive bit of tech for abs to work effectively on a mountain bike.
  • 3 0
 4 piston g2 on my new bike weaker than the 6 year old xt 2 piston on old bike, so how would these compare?
  • 1 0
 This is my peeve with sram. You shouldn't have to buy the Code to get power. If they want to make a brake like the G2 lighter by sacrificing heat management, fine - just don't kneecap the it with smaller pistons. It's dumb. Code R should be the baseline.
  • 1 0
 Electric brake. Room for battery and solenoid. The brake line may just push a switch and provide feedback. I'll bet there is an electrically actuated brake in there. It's the logical next step in the AXS system.
  • 1 0
 I wonder if one of the lines is a dummy, hiding a DAQ cable or electronics with a receiver in that Y intersection. Would be pretty crafty! Then again that could all be covered by the plastic shield, so who knows.
  • 2 0
 Saw this last week in lineup. It's the bike park managers bike, Pete. I got a few close up pics but can't see anything underneath.
  • 1 0
 The tires can't even handle that amount of braking power, that is your limiting factor. How are people still trying to figure out how to make a good hydraulic brake in this day and age?
  • 1 0
 If you need less lever force for the same braking power, then that’s better.
  • 2 0
 Agree. Getting rid of heat is our main problem. I mean, Troy Brosnan went with a 220 rear rotor in Leogang. He's 65kg. (143 lbs)
  • 1 0
 As sarcastic as my comment is.... don't doubt it at all. An the last part of your comment is very correct if, by innovation you mean a complete fkng mess of useless "standards "
  • 1 0
 this comment was meant to be a reply, too tired sorry
  • 3 0
 My bet is an axs brake and they have a traditional brake hard lineed incase the axs brake fails.
  • 1 0
 Everyone missed it! The extra calipers are the Parking brakes of course! Well discs are just a fad anyway, as we'll soon rediscover the 559mm rotors of V-brakes and 26" rims...
  • 4 0
 Welcome back to 2000's
  • 2 0
 Is there a Quarq disc brake rotor I'm not familiar with. The pictures of the rear brake rotor like new tech also
  • 2 0
 What they need is dual levers so when one seizes you have a backup. Presto!
  • 3 2
 Sram testing their new All Bullshit System.
  • 1 0
 2 calipers. So if one set fails the other one still works. Are they working on a two lever per side design for the master cylinder failures too??

Maybe a double Reverb?
  • 3 0
 Bluetooth. Hoses are just too throw us
  • 1 0
 :-D :-D
  • 4 0
 Banana warmer
  • 4 0
 air conditioning
  • 2 0
 Just a guess based off something else shown a while back.... anti-lock brakes?
  • 2 0
 It’s mechanical ABS. Likely similar to the MOTORINO system (but different enough to not infringe on the patent)
  • 3 0
 Meh, just put some coaster brakes on mountain bikes. Lol.
  • 3 0
 More complicated harder to bleed brakes are always welcome.
  • 1 0
 What goes around comes around! Huge calipers, that is - when were these, about 15 years ago?

ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9520036/p4pb9520036.jpg
  • 2 0
 the second rotor is a Tesla recharging station. You plug it into you legs Smile
  • 2 0
 It's an new training device for raw MTB Recruits, the OTBLT. Over The Bars Launch Trainer.
  • 2 0
 Please for the love of all things stop saying ‘reached out’!!

Expand your vocabulary!
  • 1 0
 Comparing the same brake with someone you dont know the weight, speed og terrain of is apples and pears. Also. Poor bleeds do happen way to often. Also for "good" shops.
  • 2 0
 They did it to solve the problem of lazy pistons, 4 sleep by day and 4 at night
  • 1 0
 Management-"Brakes are getting so easy to bleed that anyone can do it."

Sram engineers-"We can fix that. We'll add junctions and more hoses."
  • 1 0
 Why not a carbon rotor around the inside of the rim, like street bikes have.
You would have a ~26” rotor and a bonus of rim stiffness potential.
  • 3 0
 Gimme' a brake!
  • 1 0
 They're hydraulically hosed and caliper challenged!
  • 1 0
 Rather than developing a new brake, might they be collecting data on and comparing two different callipers?
  • 3 1
 SRAM should just use car brakes
  • 1 0
 Weird that it is on what looks like a syndicate frame... They have been full shimano for a hot minute.
  • 1 0
 Boxxers and DT wheels would also suggest otherwise…
  • 1 0
 @jmpalmer: indeed sir
  • 2 0
 This new model is called the Billboard RSC.
  • 2 1
 Guarantee you if those make it to market, the splitter will be a problem spot.
  • 3 0
 ABS?
  • 2 0
 ABS was also my thought. I would love to see how biking would be different with ABS installed. Another nice piece of innovation would be disc brakes which don't need a bleed... Like my 25y old HS33 raceline.
  • 2 0
 Did anyone notice the Quartz Meter on the rear rotor hub?
  • 3 0
 Yes, everyone who read the article…
  • 2 0
 Good lord that bike is a hideous monstrosity.
  • 2 0
 Ya'll wanted AXS brakes, you got 'em.
  • 2 0
 are we bringing back the Mammoth Kamikaze!?!
  • 2 0
 This is why there's a components great depression
  • 2 0
 wireless controlled brake. The hoses are fake
  • 1 0
 240 before gear codes work fine with 220 front 200 rear and enc reds....stops and works flawless
  • 2 0
 looks like an 8 pots big brake
  • 2 1
 Is it two calipers, or 2 fluid paths into the caliper to get better/more even pad actuation from side to side?
  • 2 0
 Less braking = more winning!
  • 3 0
 Can't stop this.
  • 1 0
 I think this plastic thing is just a noise reduction - very neccessary esp in the wet.
  • 2 0
 Great way to get another $600 out of us!
  • 2 0
 If I wanted two calipers, I'd also want two rotors for heat purposes.
  • 1 0
 Looks like like a Magura. Gustav anyone?

m.pinkbike.com/news/article2707.html
  • 2 0
 Wireless brake with 'back-up' hydraulic brake caliper for testing?
  • 1 0
 Frankly this is BS, 220 rotors paired to mt5's or 7's and decent ebc pads will stop anything unless you're on ice. End of
  • 2 0
 These will be great for turkey calls, probably twice the volume.
  • 2 0
 Electric brakeset? More batteries?
  • 2 0
 my shigura feel 100% better than those stupid code rsc
  • 1 0
 I weigh 190ish with gear, and ride a 36lb bike with guide T's. I ain't dead yet so...
  • 2 0
 At some stage Im expecting to see ABS brakes on bikes
  • 2 0
 yeah.... finally a parking brake
  • 1 0
 Perhaps some kind of regenerative braking device?
Recharge one’s ebike and stop at the same time??
  • 2 0
 Regenerative braking to recharge the AXS battery?
  • 1 0
 Welp, reading through these comments just killed off the first half of my work day.. Thank you, Pinkbike
  • 1 0
 Upgrade ur new 18 piston brake to a 36 piston brake just to upgrade it to a 54 piston brake later!
  • 1 0
 Sram finally figured it out... by incorporating 8 pistons, 4 should work at any given time.
  • 1 0
 That RAM frame will forever give me nightmares.
  • 1 1
 I'm not interested in SRAM brakes unless they start making drum brakes for bikes.
  • 2 2
 SRAM brakes that brake and keep working for more then a few weeks would be a step in the right direction!
  • 2 0
 Induction drive
  • 1 0
 That weirdo bike is so steampunk
  • 1 0
 Is an animal/human clone testing that bike too?
  • 1 0
 Gatorbrakes called, they want their calipers back.
  • 1 0
 Now this is something I like to see!
  • 2 0
 Anti lock.
  • 2 0
 Regenerative braking?
  • 2 0
 MO POWA BEBEH
  • 1 0
 Something to tame those buff horses!
  • 2 0
 So ugly
  • 1 0
 That is intense Eek be cool to see what comes out of this!!!
  • 1 0
 It's a waterheater!!!! YEAH!!!
  • 1 0
 ABS (anti-lock-you know the rest....)
  • 1 2
 The only way you can make people buy SRAM brakes is by removing them from your bike and replacing them with Shimano brakes.
  • 1 0
 $ram
  • 1 0
 Wireless braking?
  • 3 5
 NaH mAn My OpInIoN Is bEtTeR tHaN yOuRs... go ride ur fricken bikes nerds
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