Video: SRAM's Wireless Eagle AXS Drivetrain Explained

Feb 6, 2019
by Mike Levy  



Thankfully, the next step in drivetrain progression doesn't look like it involves adding yet another cog into the mix. SRAM's new Eagle AXS 12-speed drivetrain ditches the cable and housing for an encrypted wireless network, a tiny electric motor, some circuit boards, and a few batteries.

The battery-powered Eagle AXS system will be available in two different flavors: the XC-focused XX1 group sports titanium hardware and a carbon fiber derailleur cage at $2,000 USD, while the X01 setup is said to be more enduro-friendly and skips the fancy materials to save $100.

Both versions of Eagle AXS employ the same cranks, cassette, and chain as the mechanical version, with the only difference being the 'oil slick' finish (officially called "Rainbow") on the latter two (XX1 only) that is sure to divide opinions. If you're fine with the color, you'll be able to pick up either group this coming April, although SRAM won't be selling the components separately for at least another month - you'll have to wait a while if you just want the shifter and derailleur.

Surprisingly, an entire Eagle AXS XX1 group is claimed to come in 5-grams lighter than its mechanical sibling, putting it at 1,451-grams without a bottom bracket. X01 is 15-grams lighter overall, so it sits at 1,487 without a bottom bracket. SRAM declined to provide me with individual component weights, but the numbers above do include the 25-gram battery, too.

Eagle AXS Details

• Intended use: cross-country, trail, enduro
• Wireless encrypted network
• 12-speeds
• 20+ hour battery life
• AXS app configures buttons
• Weight: 1,451g (XX1, claimed); 1,487g (X01, claimed)
• MSRP: $2,000 USD (XX1), $1,900 USD (X01)
• Availability: April, 2019
• More info: www.sram.com/sram





Historically, the progression of mountain bike drivetrains has mirrored the ever increasing number of cogs out back and, more recently, the disappearing chainrings up front. As the number of cogs increased, so did the performance, with today's top drivetrains offering 11 and even 12 cogs, along with lower weights and shift speeds that should impress even the saltiest curmudgeon who's still saving that 8-speed XT drivetrain for ''just the right bike.''

What will a 13th cog do at this point? Not much and XTR Di2 proved, at least to me, that we've got to the point where it's going to take electronics to improve shifting speed and precision. Apparently, SRAM thinks the same, although they are at pains to stress how Eagle AXS is in no way a replacement for existing mechanical drivetrains, but rather just an option. Fear not, cables and housing aren't going anywhere for a long, long time, and owning an AXS drivetrain doesn't lock you into any proprietary parts, save for the shifter and derailleur. The same XD driver and standard Eagle chain, cassette, and cranks will play nice with the AXS parts.


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Look ma, no cable. After plenty of teasing, SRAM's wireless mountain bike drivetrain will finally be available this coming April for $2,000 and $1,900 USD.


The Eagle AXS Derailleur

The real crown jewel of the AXS system has to be the new derailleur that hides a small electric motor, an even smaller gearbox, and TWO different clutches inside of a design that looks like it belongs on Batman's trail bike. There's a lot going on inside this thing, and it's been in one stage of development or another for the past six years after first starting life as an 11-speed prototype.

It was still very early days back then, and it was decided to focus on the mechanical 12-speed Eagle group rather than a wireless system. At least for a while.


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Just a small selection of prototype AXS derailleurs. With six years of development behind it, you can bet there are plenty more behind closed doors.


Those six years saw the AXS prototypes go from roughly constructed proof of concepts to specially designed units that included small windows so the engineers could literally look inside to see how the gearbox was holding up. Wait, a gearbox? The electric motor spins at around 80,000 RPM, which is far too fast to be of any good when it comes to shifting... Unless there was a tiny transmission that turned it into the torque required to move the derailleur left and right.

That's exactly what SRAM did by designing and manufacturing their own gear wheels that, according to them, will last the life of the derailleur.


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See that little window? That was installed so engineers could see how the gear wheels were holding up during testing.


If the battery that clips onto the back of the derailleur looks familiar, that's because it's the same as you'll find on the wireless Reverb AXS and their existing wireless road groups. And speaking of wireless road groups, you wouldn't be silly for thinking that Eagle AXS borrows tech from SRAM's RED eTap setup, but you'd also be wrong for the most part.

Aside from the battery, the derailleur has no relation to the RED eTap unit whatsoever. It uses a more powerful motor, a completely different gearbox that's more robust, and the derailleur itself gets much wider pivots for more rigidity. SRAM also increased both the chain wrap and the ground clearance (by 10mm) compared to the mechanical Eagle derailleur.

You're probably wondering about why this thing has two clutches. There's the now-normal one-way clutch that helps keep the chain on, but there's also the "Overload clutch." That important-sounding device isolates that aforementioned tiny gearbox from the forces of you smashing the derailleur into a rock. Internally, it's basically a one-way bearing, a friction device, and a little cylinder that slides in and out that releases the gearbox from the derailleur.

With all that stuff in there, it's a wonder how the complete group comes it at basically the same weight as the mechanical system, even with the missing cable and housing.
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Weight? Price? SRAM wasn't keen on sharing individual specifics of each component yet, but it's probably fair to assume that the first one is low and the second one is high.


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Wait, who forgot to string the cable and housing?!


The Eagle AXS Shifter

With no need to pull or release a silly shift cable, SRAM could come up with any arrangement of buttons that they wanted, and they did exactly that over the previous six years of development. Early prototypes included simple push-buttons that, while working just fine, were also really more to test the system as a whole then resemble anything a consumer would be offered.

SRAM pulled out a half-dozen of these at the demo, and some of them looked pretty clever to me, but the version that they went with wasn't what I expected to see.


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Just four examples of what SRAM came up with for testing shifter design.


Rather than a nearly invisible collar and button arrangement, the AXS shifter looks kinda like, well, a shifter that doesn't have a cable sticking out of it. It's a bit smaller than a normal SRAM clicker, and it attaches to the handlebar via the usual MatchMaker clamp, but that's where the similarities end.

Instead of a thumb paddle and release trigger, there are actually three 'buttons' to choose from: the two under the bar would usually be setup to move the derailleur in opposite directions, and the third button that sits on the front of the shifter is designed to go to a harder gear if you bump it with your knuckle. SRAM is calling it the "secret sprint paddle" because it seems to work really well in those settings, but you can make any of the three "touch points" (that's what SRAM's calling the buttons) control shifting in any direction or even take command of your Reverb AXS dropper post, all via the AXS app. More on that later, though.


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The ''secret sprint paddle'' is a button that you can easily hit with your knuckle while out of the saddle. I found it difficult to hit by accident, too.



How it All Works

If you made it this far, you'll probably want to know how this whole Eagle AXS thing works. So, what exactly happens when you shift?

First, the AXS components will all auto-sleep and auto-wake, just like the Reverb post, and you grabbing your bike is enough to tell the computer to get ready for action. When the time comes to shift, a signal is shot out to the derailleur over an encrypted wireless network, at which point the little motor fires up from 0 to fast as hell near instantly. That's put through the gearbox that converts it to torque and moves the derailleur left or right. Sounds simple, right? It happens in the blink of an eye, and you'll hear a tell-tale 'vvvvt' as the derailleur moves the chain.


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Will encrypted wireless networks spell the end for shift cables? Highly unlikely, at least not in the foreseeable future.


There's no cable, so that means that tension adjustments are a thing of the past, but you'll still need to setup your limit and B-tension screws. And what if you bend your hanger or the derailleur itself? First, you'll need to calm down after nearly destroying your very pricey derailleur, and then the solution, at least to sort the shifting out temporarily, is to use the button on the underside of the shifter. You can trim the derailleur a tiny amount in or out using this button.



The AXS App

No, you don't need to use the AXS app to use computerized Eagle on your bike, but you'd be missing out on one of the group's neatest features: the ability to customize which button does what. The app is free and available for both iOS and Android devices, and it looks like it was designed for a simpleton like myself because it's very easy to use. Want your Reverb AXS remote on the left to shift to a higher gear, the shifter button in the right to move the chain to an easier gear, and the ''secret sprint paddle'' to control the Reverb? Not a problem and as easy as tapping your phone's screen a few times.


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You need to press that small button on the back of the remote to pair your Eagle AXS, something that also keeps ''friends'' from messing with your bike. The AXS app lets you choose which button controls what, from the shifter to the Reverb remote.


I did exactly that on the side of a desert singletrack in Tucson, Arizona, and managed to figure it out in around 30-seconds, which means that most people will do the same in about half the time.


The AXS Batteries

Just like the Reverb AXS dropper post, the Eagle AXS drivetrain employs two different batteries. Up in the shifter is a common CR2032 that you can get from anywhere, and SRAM says to expect around two years of life until it needs replacing.

Down at the derailleur, you'll find the same clip-on battery that powers the wireless Reverb post, as well as SRAM's RED road drivetrain, and you can even swap between the three if you needed to. Because the motor requires a decent amount of juice, you can expect around 20-hours of battery life from this little guy, which is half the time that it's supposed to last on the Reverb. Still, that's probably many thousands of shifts, and there's a battery display light that'll tell you when it's time to plug things into the wall.


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The Eagle AXS battery is the very same as what powers the Reverb AXS post and the RED eTap drivetrain.


Of course, 20-hours and thousands of shifts is a far cry from forever, so if you're the kind of person who doesn't remember the last time you checked your tire pressure or lubed your chain before a ride, you might not be the ideal AXS customer.

What happens if your SRAM battery goes flat on you during a ride? You're stuck in that gear, I'm afraid, or you can swap in the Reverb's battery if you prioritize shifting over seat height. Or, at just 25-grams each, you could slip a spare battery into your bag or pocket as a backup. While SRAM won't share the exact price of an Eagle AXS battery quite yet, a RED eTap battery can be had for around $50 USD, so expect a spare AXS unit to be around the same price.
SRAM Eagle AXS Quick Hits

Is this stuff waterproof? It is, at least as much as a mountain biker would ever need it to be. The components come with an IP69K international standard rating that validates systems that require regular pressurized cleaning. Lake jumping? No. Spraying off mud? Zero issues.

How long will the batteries last? That depends on how much you shift, of course, but SRAM says to expect 20-hours (or more) from the derailleur's power supply and two years from the CR2030 that's in the remote.

Do you need to download the AXS app? If the last thing you want on your phone or iPod is another app, then no, you don't need it to use the AXS drivetrain. But you'll need it if you ever want to play with different button settings.

Is my drivetrain going to get hacked? Highly unlikely, but that tinfoil hat does look good on you. The shifter and derailleur, as well as the Reverb AXS and its remote, all talk to each other through an encrypted wireless network that SRAM says is proprietary to them. In order to change the functions, you'd need to have the app, know the targeted derailleur's serial number, and have physical access to do the pairing. If your riding buddy does all that, I think he deserves to be able to play a prank on you.

What's this Eagle AXS drivetrain compatible with? Any bike that can run a normal, 12-speed mechanical Eagle drivetrain can be AXS-ified as well. You'll have to use the now common XD driver, of course, but that's it.

What does the Eagle AXS group include? You'll get the AXS derailleur and shifter, and it also comes with the cranks, chainring, cassette, chain, charger and cord, and the Chain Gap Tool so you set it up correctly. Oh, and some batteries, of course. Interestingly, SRAM is only offering the group as a whole kit, for now, but I'm told that individual components will be available around four weeks from now.

What's up with that rainbow colored chain and cassette? I think it looks neat, but it isn't going to be for everyone. AXS XX1 will only be available in what SRAM calls "Rainbow" but the slightly heavier X01 group can be had in a more subdued black finish.

Batteries surely mean that it's heavy, right? The batteries weigh just 25-grams each, so not really. An Eagle AXS XX1 group is said to come in 5-grams lighter than its mechanical sibling, putting it at 1,451-grams without a bottom bracket. X01 is 15-grams lighter overall, so it weighs 1,487-grams without a bottom bracket. SRAM declined to provide me with individual component weights.

When is it available and how much should I sell my organs for? The roadies will be able to get their AXS components pretty much today, but us dirty mountain bike types will need to wait until sometime in April before it's on the shelves. An entire Eagle AXS XX1 group will go for $2,000 USD, while the X01 group sells for $1,900 USD. You should probably just save up instead of selling your insides.





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Without a cable in sight, this Yeti SB130 was probably an extremely easy build.


On The Trail

So, how does all this fancy stuff perform? I spent a few days using the AXS group down in Tucson, Arizona - not enough to call it a review - but my first impressions are that I need to take back some of my shit talk. I went into the rides probably thinking the same thing you guys are: "Why do I need this? Cables work fine, and I can fix that stuff in minutes. And even an entry-level drivetrain shifts really damn well these days.''

Well, no one needs it, but then I hit the buttons a few times and, well, it's pretty frick'n neat if I'm honest. The thing is that it should always nail the shift, no matter what. If it can offer that type of consistency, day in and day out, then it has a reason to exist. It did exactly that during my all too brief time on it.


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Tucson's trails are rocky and unforgiving. I slapped an Eagle AXS derailleur on a rock hard enough to lift the rear wheel off the ground. Damage? Only cosmetic, and I actually heard the Overload clutch do its job.


There's no pushing the lever this far, feeling the mechanical clunk that lets you know something happened and then releasing the lever. I know that we all do that sub-consciously now and it feels like it takes no time or effort at all... but this wireless stuff makes that feel old and slow. Thing is, I don't think it shifts any quicker - it's the same chain and cassette - but the difference between hitting a button and pushing a paddle is more noticeable than I expected on the trail.

I think I'd be just fine if you told me I would be using an SLX or GX group for the rest of my life, but this Eagle AXS stuff is pretty neat. Long-term, we'll see. I have an AXS group coming for exactly that reason, so expect a review sometime in the spring. Questions that need answering include how the group holds up over the long haul, and if it has the metronome-like consistency that an electronic drivetrain must possess for it to make sense in my mind.

Time will tell, but with what we know right now, do you see a wireless Eagle AXS drivetrain in your future?


584 Comments

  • + 312
 But it's okay, shimano almost has xtr figured out.
  • - 49
flag avg-roadie (Feb 6, 2019 at 7:25) (Below Threshold)
 Because it’s readily available months after release?
  • - 18
flag Tr011 (Feb 6, 2019 at 7:29) (Below Threshold)
 Just wait till they go electronic, what a shit show that will be
  • + 14
 @avg-roadie: Hahaha, shimano threw in the towel on drivetrain
  • + 265
 Who cares about eagle or XTR?

I'd still rather pay for a solid SLX drivetrain which works day in, day out with zero issues and has more than enough range, and only a few grams heavier.. And its... like 1/8 the cost.
  • - 12
flag Chridel (Feb 6, 2019 at 7:58) (Below Threshold)
 I just want the XTR chain on that drivetrain!
  • + 67
 @Tr011: My problem with it is I have replaced two derailleurs in the last 6 months from damage and I was bummed it cost me $60 for a new one each time! But can you imagine $400 everytime you hit a rock or have a bad crash! This is NOT for me. maybe some loaded doctor but not me!
  • + 41
 @hbar314: xt 11 speed is like $200 and works perfectly. Not everyone wants or needs a $2000 drivetrain
  • + 49
 So now the narrative is “Shimano can’t do drivetrains, look to Eagle for reliability”? I find this hilarious given the history, but maybe the rough roll-out of XTR will leave a mark.

Like people who still insist SRAM brakes are awful because Avid Juicys suck. Have you tried current Codes? Best I’ve ridden.
  • + 21
 @Drew-O: rough roll out is an understatement considering shimano cant even deliver product to sponsored teams
  • + 29
 So, the main question is:
What are they going to do with the information they collect from the app. ?
  • + 9
 @rockchomper: You my friend might be a good candidate for going single speed or getting a gearbox bike. Just a thought.
  • + 8
 @ratedgg13: XT shifter really is nicer. Otherwise SLX is damn good.
  • + 17
 @Bikethrasher: Oh buddy as soon as they make a slack 180mm travel front and rear gearbox bike with a reasonable price tag, im gonna be on it like flies on a turd!!
  • + 16
 @ratedgg13 : I run an XT shifter with an SLX derailleur because i like the feel of the XT shifts and the SLX derailleur is cheaper to replace when I smash it up! When not if haha! My advice go XT shifter and SLX derailleur. @yzedf: knows whats up!
  • + 1
 @rockchomper: you should check out sick! bicycle co. They came out with one called the sleipnir, 180mm f/r 29er that is plenty slack with a steep seat-tube!
  • + 2
 @norcorider-13: It's sick! I like the sleipnir, but I don't think its for sale yet, I think its just a prototype?
the gearbox bike i've had my eye on is the Deviate cycles Guide! Its got everything long, low, slack, high pivot, long travel, and a gearbox Drool

theres only one problem, THE PRICE!! Madder
  • + 6
 @ratedgg13: You clearly didn't go to dentist school.

In all seriousness though, the most reliable and long lasting drivetrains that I've owned have always been low-mid level, and another plus is that if you trash it, it doesn't cost you +/-300 to replace.

That being said I always did like the "extra crispy" feeling of XTR..
  • + 5
 @Drew-O: Try the Hayes Dominion A4s, then they'll be the best brakes you've ridden.
  • + 6
 @ratedgg13: I went on a ride yesterday and a small section of trail was flooded, I rode through, and then 10 minutes later my cables froze and I couldn't shift any more. I would have loved to have this instead of a cable.
  • + 8
 All the guys on here talking about how amazing Shimano XT 11sp drivetrains are clearly haven't ridden their 11-46 cassette or have wisely used a SRAM GX 10-42. Hard to say that drivetrain is all you need when that cassette is hot garbage with a 37t to 46t jump hack job they did on it just to say they had it. I do like the XT set tho a lot, just not the brakes and cassette.
  • + 11
 @rockchomper: I feel you. I personally run XO1 level everything except the rear derailleur, which is a GX for the reason you stated. The derailleur is a "dumb" part and only does what the shifter tells it. I run a nice shifter, cassette and chain and a cheap derailleur in case/when I smoke it on a rock/stick.

Cheers,
-A
  • + 3
 @norcorider-13: and @rockchomper Have a look at Cavalerie Bikes!!
i've ridden the Anakin for 7 years and i can tell you that this gearbox bike is by far the best bike i've ridden!! (even on Whistler bike park)
  • + 4
 @audric: Thanks ill definitely look them and the gearbox revolution cant come soon enough!! #downwithderailleurs
  • + 3
 @bobsaget: wouldn’t the small gears in the derailleur freeze up too if immersed in water during sub zero temps? And what about the battery contacts/electronics? Too many potential issues to risk for that sum I think.
  • + 2
 @onlyontwo06: I agree with this.
  • + 2
 @ratedgg13: I hear Ya.. But some of us like those blingy bits.
  • + 0
 @bohns1: like Eleiko bar Big Grin
  • + 1
 @rockchomper: they had it up for crowdfunding and have started to make the ones they sold for that. Unsure as to when they will be making anouther batch of them though. The deviate guide is a sweet rig as well! I’m with you about the long, low, slack, plus a gear box and high single pivot, that combo sounds like a dream! But hey, the price is still cheaper than speccing this new eagle.
  • + 8
 Came here expecting the top comment to troll Shimano. Was not disappointed. Big Grin
  • - 11
flag JeremyLomenick (Feb 6, 2019 at 12:37) (Below Threshold)
 @rockchomper: I think your problem is most likely you don’t seem to know how to ride.... I haven’t replaced a derailleur in 1.5 years and I ride every single day....
  • + 3
 @norcorider-13: funny when a groupset cost the same as some complete bikes (decent quality bikes at that!)
  • + 9
 @JeremyLomenick: hahahaha trust me man I know how to ride! I broke my last derailluer when I threw a nac nac in virgin utah and the wind hit me so I chucked the bike to its doom! don't belive me check my page i got suicide no hander, nacs, you name it! that being said I think ive proven its not a matter of me knowing how to ride its the fact that derailliers are a weak point for most people who ride hard!

Secondly my wife ride aswell so that doubles my chances of breaking one! it gets pricey!
  • + 4
 @JeremyLomenick: Actually better yet forget about me! Are you saying Gwin didn't know how to ride when he broke a derailleur at the World cup costing him the race? a broken derailleur dosen't mean you don't know how to ride!
  • + 0
 @rockchomper: wasn’t a derailleur, it was a chain from him having insane power out of the start gate
  • + 2
 @Svinyard: sunrace 11-46 is a massive upgrade! And cheap too! Brings the shifting well ahead of GX
  • + 8
 Breaking a rear mech - unthinkable! Hasn’t happened to me since 3 years to break two in one year. I killed at least 10 in 18 years I ride. I can’t even count how many hangers I messed up. 500$ for a rear mech... no rear mech is worth more than 100$ and you can get as good one as they get for 80$. Namely XT. Electronics, hydraulics, Jesus magic - I don’t care, throw anything at me, I’ll buy it when in need - As long as it costs no more than 80$. And 50$ would be desireable for a virtually disposable component
  • + 1
 @JeremyLomenick: either way breaking components doesn't dictate whether your a good or bad rider!

So im done feeding the troll at this point! good day sir!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: this guy gets it!
  • + 0
 @HurricaneCycles: I am here to suck balls of Sunrace cassettes. Great products. Have 10sp 11-42 on wifeys bike, rode it a dozen of times, nothing to complain about, better than 11sp XT
  • + 1
 @Svinyard: agreed but the 11-46 Sunrace cassette solved that crappy lower gear range on my XT.
  • + 2
 @rockchomper: it's actually two grand as you can't buy individual components for now Wink
  • + 3
 @rockchomper: if we all don’t give our money to bike companies, how are they going to come out with “new stuff” for us to buy?! I think it’s TOTALLY reasonable, nay, our duty, to buy $2,000 drivetrains, $900 poorly functioning wireless dropper posts, the newest boosted “capable” frame and then throw it on our $500 cars and go ride with our strava on to show everyone we did it. We all need to make the cycling experience better for the industry CEO’s, not for us.

I love sarcasm.
  • + 3
 Once Pinion dials in their gearbox system with electronic shifting like this and figures out how to shift while pedaling, they will be the winner. They must be getting close.
  • + 1
 @animatedcorpse: It's waterproof. So no, that wouldn't happen. See the first question Levy posed in the heading "SRAM Eagle AXS Quick Hits" in the article.
  • + 1
 @Beez177: Agreed. Works flawlessly and I have money left over to take my wife to dinner!!
  • + 1
 Just found a product called Xshifter that converts any mechanical to Wireless shifting:
www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598276649/xshifter-worlds-first-universal-wireless-smart-shi
  • + 1
 I would tear that shifter up, And then be out of all that money. That’s how that one would play out...
  • + 0
 @Drew-O: I've just bought a new bike with GX12 speed and SRAM Guide brakes. My 2012 bike with XT discs (that have never been bled in six years) easily beat the quality, power and modulation of my 2019 Guide brakes. Sorry, but SRAM doesn't know how to brakes.
  • + 1
 @ratedgg13: agreed
  • + 1
 @RollinFoSho: wireless 9 speed?
  • + 1
 Would be nice if the rear d was rebuildable and all parts could be purchased separately
  • + 1
 @Svinyard: check out the sunrace rear 11-46 cassette. Cheap and much better gear spacing
  • + 0
 Sounds like you need to learn how to shift or avoid obstacles @rockchomper:
  • + 1
 @evaneisenhart: actually neither of those things I've never broken one while shifting or while on the bike! I've only broken them in crashes.
  • + 2
 @ratedgg13:
Damn you nailed it!
I am on ZEE components (not slx) but the result is the same - very low price and works day after day with zero issues...
  • + 1
 @Svinyard: I ended up using an 11-42 XT cassette with a Oneup 18/47 cog kit. Works the way Shimano should have made it.
  • + 1
 @rockchomper: Same story here. I had two XO1 derailleurs on both of my bikes. I crashed both and I was literally tearing up because it was 180eur for each derailleur. I replaced them with the GX derailleurs (70eur), which have an awesome price-performance ratio.

When there is one thing I learned in gravity over the years, is that some parts of the drivetrain have to come by cheap especially when they are super exposed like derailleurs. Cranks and cassettes are a different story. > Or there should be more spare parts available to fix the derailleurs once you have crashed. Like when the cage is bent etc. But not receiving that option as a customer, I guess that's planned obsolescence in a certain way.
  • + 1
 @RollinFoSho: Just thinking the same. This or Sram and/or Shimano investing those loads of money in bringing gearboxes to the masses instead of taking MTB to be the new golf...
btw I'm in search for tartan mtb shorts Big Grin
  • + 1
 @yzedf: SLX is for brakes, or if you like big cassettes. Otherwise it's Deore vs. XT. There's no improvement in SLX shifting over Deore.
  • + 1
 @yzedf: zee too
  • + 1
 @norcorider-13: @norcorider-13: they came out with drawings of one. Was due for Feb delivery but no news since the crowdfunding finished. Lots of people cancelling orders for HT frames that seem to be endlessly delayed too (6 months plus...)

I was interested but one of the owners told me to **** off. So I bought a Deviate Guide instead (160mm R 180mm F 27.5 gearbox bike, with modern if not super progressive geo)
  • - 4
flag will-burr (Feb 7, 2019 at 9:40) (Below Threshold)
 SRAM Eagle AXS is probably still chain clacking and dropping without the firm clutch that SHIMANO has a patent on. "Look mom, I bought a $2000 drivetrain that is noisy as hell down the trail beating the hell out of my chain stay and drops occasionally". Mom says, "Son, your an idiot and hurry up putting your chain on!!!". No thanks SRAM.

And yes, I stupidly bought the NEW Eagle stuff and the "anti-clutch" chain clacking is a real pisser... Going back to Shimano...
  • + 2
 @rockchomper: Same set up here. The XT shifter feels much sturdier and can do two upshifts at once which is really nice. Definitely worth the extra $15.
  • - 1
 @will-burr: you must not have set up your bike properly then, I havent had any issues and all sram equipped bike in the ews are silent compared to their shimano counterparts
  • + 5
 @Tr011: "all sram equipped bikes in the EWS are silent" - wow! were you wandering the tracks with a sound level meter? Honestly... your post is a testimony how X vs Y debates turn people into idiots. You want to tell me that you can tell whether a bike passing you is on Shimano or Sram. You must have not set up your brain properly, sorry... that is the dumbest thing one could read on this site in a long time, where WAKIdesigns wasn't the author. Even if you were a team mechanic with 10 year experience (which you aren't) it would still be a damn dumb thing to say.
  • + 1
 @HurricaneCycles: Right, not Shimano tho Wink So XT drive train doesn't work well if unless you use someone else's parts...even with amazing Shimano quality and testing and slow release time.
  • + 1
 @ratedgg13: we ain't all broke boizzz
  • + 0
 @Drew-O: avid juicy's sucked* they've been gone a long time now. No one ever want's to talk about the weepy pistons on ALL the Shimano brakes over the last 3 or 4 years.
  • + 0
 @tomhoward379: they have definitely had their issues With delays, but they are also one of the few companies that truly gives you insight into the development of a bike from idea, to 3d rendering, to the manufacturing process and for a company as small as theirs I think they’ve dealt with themselves well for the demand they’ve had. I find it hard to believe that Jordan or Tim would have told you to F*** off in a serious manner without reason.

As far as the deviate guide goes, I think it looks like a great bike, but it’s a quite the stretch to call it progressive, as even with a 180mm fork it would only have a 65 degree HTA, and the B.B. drop would be around 1mm... the Commencal SX supreme would take the cake in the battle of progressive geo with a HSP and neither of those bikes come anywhere close to the progressive geo that sick! Is putting out there.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: @WAKIdesigns: and @Tr011. My bikes are setup properly including the b-adjustment screw set at sag with rider including gear (not naked). Old 1x11 was good with real friction clutch. The NEW Eagle non-adjust pseudo clutch 1x12 is noise ridden. I know... I'll ride with sub-woofer headphones cranking MESHUGGAH. Problem solved? I love music, but not so loud to solve SRAM patent product issues.

I'm not the only one warning people of the Eagle noise... I'm sure there are many links, but I just put one below.

forums.mtbr.com/trek/slash-excessive-chain-slap-1089047.html
  • + 2
 @norcorider-13: I'm saying the guide is modern, but not progressive... its all well and good saying they struggle to keep up with demand, but they supply based on preorders, as it lowers the risk. i know exactly why Tim told me to' f*** off if you want to be a miserable c***', I suggested that a mag might not whoop and holler about how successful they were, having sold 2 frames (the slepnir, think they got 6 frames sold in the end, still no pics, 6 months on). Their manufacturing process seems to be 'order it from A.N. Other builder '(Marino, Downland, FTW etc)

Plus, seems chromag and Pole now have them licked in the 'most progressive' game now.
  • - 1
 @tomhoward379: sounds like you deserved it...
  • + 2
 @ratedgg13: that's what all the fanbois said too, the ones that were queuing up to not buy one.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Rogue for me bud.. Ha
  • + 1
 @bohns1: both fail to adress fundamental practical solution. A grip allowing you to easily carry two 25kg plates from one side of the gym to another. I often use some “not so elite” weights quite often because they are way more practical. Wake up Rogue and Eleiko
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm talking mainly for my home basement gym.. I like the durability of their cages and plates are awesome.. I'm mostly a dumbell guy anyways for constant imbalance correction.. That being said.. Its the fitness depot rubber hex dumbells.. Awesome product for the price..
  • + 1
 @Svinyard: XT shifter, SLX mech, XX1 cassette and chain flawless shifting, durable, light weight all the setup I ever need. The GX cassette is better value but I broke a tooth off suprisingly easily getting a stick caught up and if you forget to oil everything up after a ride once the black has worn off it rusts.
  • + 1
 @StevieJB: just get the xT rear mech, it is tougher and the pulleys are better. At least if one lives in shitty muddy place, the SLX/Deore pulleys wear out fast. Then XT has tougher cage and parallelogram. I’d say if you go for SLX mech you may as well shoot for Deore.

After Eagle took off, one can get 11sp cassettes cheaper, especially the used ones. I just hooked myself up with a barely used one for 100$
  • + 1
 @rockchomper: ive been running a similar set up. x01 eagle shifter, derailler, cassette and chain with a gx derailler. i think soomeone needs to come up with a way to stop hangers/deraillers bending or snapping. something like a mechanism that lets the derailler move when it is hit by a rock to stop it snapping
  • + 1
 @tommatson: that's, literally, what the second clutch in the AXS mechs does
  • + 1
 @tomhoward379: Thats cool! I don't think I caught that part. Should be standard on every highend drive train moving forward.
  • + 103
 Honestly this is awesome, if I could afford I would ride.

Not sure why people are resisting the electronics. I charge my phone and GPS before every ride, and this time of year my riding light as well. Why is this any different?
  • + 116
 I just want that oil-slick cassette Drool
  • + 9
 Yeah, you will charge phone, GPS, light(s), rear mech, seatpost and a shifter. Ok, you may buy one spare and be so lucky that you will run out only one mid-ride.
  • + 17
 Because the last thing I want to think about before going riding is: are my batteries charged? Bike shouldn't be an E-Bike. In any respect.
  • + 56
 Senator: When I shift down, will the shifter send a message to Facebook and tell Facebook I'm watching Black Panther?
  • + 4
 So you think those 4K frames look good with holes in them?

What about when you're racing and Russia hacks your drivetrain and seatpost on the last lap/stage?
  • - 9
flag jeansebille (Feb 6, 2019 at 7:43) (Below Threshold)
 Well I am charging my #2000Wh battery to power my sick #1500W motor on my Ebike so adding this is gonna be even better!
  • + 11
 I want to see what Levy says after he puts it through the paces in the wet and mud and rocks, but I think would be way cool if it's as durable as a mechanical. If that's the case, I think it would be worth the splurge.
  • + 13
 Ill buy it when the price comes down in 3-4 years.
  • - 21
flag nouseforaname (Feb 6, 2019 at 8:18) (Below Threshold)
 I just wish it wasn't SRAM doing it TBH. If it was Shimano (and I know that everyone loves to hate one or the other) I'd be excited.
But Eagle GX has turned me off SRAM. I can run an SLX derailleur just as long as an XT. Eagle GX - not so much. So the thought of mid level electronic derailleurs in the future - not that exciting.
  • + 3
 Because smashing that derailleur will cost way more than I'm willing to ever pay for a replacement. I could make a million dollars a year and still not see the cost benefit here.
  • + 9
 Why is this any different? Because it's a bicycle! I'm not throwing a saddle on my smart phone and riding it! A bicycle is freedom and enjoyment of not having these technical bits and pieces to rely on! Life will really suck when your batteries die anywhere on the trail or on the way home. I'm going to kick my friends in the nuts when I get a text message excuse saying "sorry mate I forgot to charge my freaking derailleur!"
  • + 1
 @goroncy: so you ride a rim brake rigid single speed? Cool story bro.
  • + 2
 @moefosho: Yep, I'll wait a couple years after they they release the GX version.
  • + 13
 Because some of us don't need a phone, GPS, or riding lights to ride, either. I ride to escape electronics (among other things), not embrace them.
  • + 1
 And E-bikes are nog cool?
  • + 2
 @moefosho: XT Di2 came out a few years back and its still stupid expensive. though i hope in the next couple SRAM will have a GX available option, or shimano with a 12spd XT..
  • + 2
 @maxlombardy: yeah man! An all black + oil slick details would look sick!
  • + 16
 This isn't technology in the same vein as an iPhone where it's taking over your life and being a distraction, and it's not an e-bike where you to sit back and the machine does all (or a good portion) of the work. That's just a dumb comparison. It has the exact same function as your cable and shifter, only better, potentially -- I guess I'll have to wait for the full review to see if works well.

What if your battery dies? Well, what if your cable breaks? (Happens at least once a year for me). What if you smash it on a rock? Yes, that's legit. Replacing them would be expensive. But replacing Enve wheels is expensive. Replacing carbon cranks is expensive. Also I've had derailleurs last for YEARS without this being a problem. If these are nearly as durable, for the most part, you will be fine. That's what I'm waiting to see and hear in a longer review.
  • + 3
 @yzedf: he is clearly disliking electronic parts, not better mechanical parts. big difference.
  • - 6
flag yzedf (Feb 6, 2019 at 10:47) (Below Threshold)
 @crsimmons: anti-technology is how I read it. Not seeing the difference between electronics vs anything new in the last 50 years.
  • + 1
 @foggeloggliod: you sound like someone who's never had a cable snap or a shifter explode. I expect this will be much more reliable than a mechanical system.
  • + 2
 The matter for me is not about the tech.... is about the care level you need to have while riding aggressively.... and this without telling you how much would it cost to replace a broken part or the whole thing.....In my opinion, this develop suits more the pro racers and the fancy easy riders out there...though
  • + 4
 @tripleultrasuperboostplusplus: I'm usually riding by myself, never leave for a ride without the phone and GPS having a full charge. Eh It's not like I'm sitting there scrolling insta at the top of the hill bud. And if you don't need light to ride at night I tip my hat to you sir

I don't understand these no-phone purests, right up there with the people who brag about still having a flip phone that that clips to their belt. Go ahead and ride with no phone or electronics i sure af don't care what you do, but unless you're riding a rigid beach cruiser down fire roads in Marin County don't act like you're a superior moral being bud
  • + 6
 @TheR: Totally with you, but damn, if you break a cable at least once a year something's set up wrong.
  • + 2
 @yzedf: You read it incorrectly.
  • - 1
 @goroncy: I read it just fine, I chose to interpret it in such a way as to write a snarky response. The follow up with @crsimmons was just me being difficult. Most people think of “technology” as being somehow only related to electronics, which I find annoying.

Feel free to hate on this new group set. I do too. I already know two guys that have tried to order it... damn stuff costs more than I paid for 3 of my last 4 bikes combined. I’m not the target audience for this!
  • + 2
 @nouseforaname: what problem have you had with the GX I’ve put 1.5k miles and mine still works amazing?
  • + 1
 @woofer2609: It's usually because I bend my derailleur hanger, and the cable rubs against it or something.
  • + 4
 @jmedina: "The matter for me is not about the tech.... is about the care level you need to have while riding aggressively.... and this without telling you how much would it cost to replace a broken part or the whole thing.....In my opinion, this develop suits more the pro racers and the fancy easy riders out there...though"

Word for word what everyone said about carbon frames five years ago.
  • + 1
 @chyu: this made me laugh too hard
  • + 1
 Another negative aspect is that there will be more weight on the back wheel with the heavier derailleur (battery...) I like the concept with Zerode gearbox bikes. Once they get the gearbox to shift like this, I think it will be the better way to go.
  • + 0
 Just found a product called Xshifter that converts any mechanical to Wireless shifting:
www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598276649/xshifter-worlds-first-universal-wireless-smart-shi
  • + 4
 @kookseverywhere: it's the same stuff it always is...my setup is correct. Everyone with less than I have is blowing it, everyone with more is cheating. Bikes golf whatever. Insecurity rules.
  • + 0
 @RollinFoSho: it already is IMO. got a taniwha a while back and I'm ploughing through chop like never before. the shifting is a piece of piss - anyone with a problem with it needs a "first world problem" pill.
  • + 1
 @RollinFoSho: That seems like a much smarter way to approach electronic shifting. It's just a wireless actuator that gets hooked up to any derailleur.
  • + 1
 @tripleultrasuperboostplusplus: My exact thoughts. Not knocking the technology and to each their own. I just need time to disconnect. And riding does that for me.
  • + 1
 @kookseverywhere: My job requires me to be on the phone constantly, fielding phone calls, text messages and emails. It’s a constant flow. If I can get away for a few hours it’s a slice of heaven. ( as I write this on my phone sitting on my couch. Lol ) If electronics are your thing, awesome. I just need time away. I think having more electronics would make me feel like I’m still connected. One less thing to think about when I grab my bike for a ride.
  • + 1
 @jayacheess: The major selling point of electronic for me is being able to move the chain to the right place at the right time individually for each gear with much more precision. A servo allows you to treat the 10t different than the 50t. In theory it can even compensate for a bent hanger. An electronic cable actuator doesn't give you any benefit, since you're still beholden to the mechanical design of the parallelogram and cage to move the chain.
  • + 0
 @dthomp325: I can deal with electronics shifting. I can't deal with NWO plans of the "internet of things", AI integration and hive mind society
  • + 2
 @TheR: You have a point, at least about relative complexity, as a smartphone typically has many different components interacting.

The things not being mentioned, are the traits this new group has that are truly novel or solve universal cycling issues. From where I'm sitting, the only remotely novel bit is the loss of wires, but you're trading one inconvenience for another AND added cost. Since this is what's commonly referred to as a halo product, it's plain to see not many bikes will be built around it. Frames will STILL HAVE HOLES OR CABLE ROUTING.

It does remove a minor maintenance point(cable replacement), but cables don't fail if replaced occasionally. Current mechanical groups are about as efficient and light as we can hope--especially given the near identical weights of these groups.

This is really just a consumer influence campaign to drive consumers to SRAM. Those 2 identical prices(ignoring the cassette difference), should tell you they aren't trying to sell those groups. SRAM is trying to sell credibility and wipe the slate clean of their brake issues.
  • + 1
 @goroncy: absolutely the last thing I want to rely on when out on my bike for hours are batteries.
  • + 80
 Wow, I can build a $20,000 enduro bike now. Between this (2000), fox live valve (3500), and Trust linkage forks (2700) ax-lightness Ultra Race 29 (3200) Robot Bike co frame (5700) Mcfk stem (400) i9 wheel set (2000) Electric dropper (1000) Magura brakes (700) Herzog bike seat (1700). I already hit $20,000 grand and I am not done building my bike Awesome!
  • + 10
 Those things add up to way more than 8 grand, though.
  • + 6
 @mikelevy: Dang it, I will I have to wait till I am out if med-school now lol
  • + 45
 but why would you run maguras on a bike that expensive. go for trickstuff
  • + 2
 @jaybobo: Good point.
  • + 15
 Dude get some syncros carbon sl wheels for $5000
  • + 49
 Buying a Trust fork would be useless if you had live valve...Just saved you 2,700 dollars.
  • + 15
 Don't forget the cost of the little bungs to fill the holes in your frame where the cables used to go.
  • - 1
 @jeffhall124: Or use two forks!
  • + 7
 @bigtim: just tell the robot bike guys not to put holes in it, it is custom after all
  • + 1
 AND.....there is still something you'll find alluring on next years model!
  • + 9
 We've built a $23,000 DH bike on vitalmtb few years ago, I'm pretty sure we could build $30,000+ enduro these days with those numbers (including stuff like ceramicspeed 3d printed titanium mech pulley upgrade for 800€) Smile
  • + 1
 @winko: That would be insane!
  • + 27
 XTR Di2 with kcnc casset (2370), Push Elevensix shock (1200), trust fork (2700) Syncros SL carbon wheels (3500), electronic dropper (1000), UNNO Dash Frame (5680), Magura Brakes (700) Herzog Eberhardt saddle, (1700), Thompson riser bars (450), enve stem (300), Enve bottle cage (70), speedplay pedals (380), Chris king bb (300), shwalbe racing ralphe (206), YBN titanium chain (220) Carbon ceramic rotors (180) ceramic speed jockey wheels (750), CAN CREEK TITANIUM (cranks only) (999), ceramic headset bearings (430) lizard skin grips (30) invisiframe frame protection (100), cushcore (150) water bottle (10) all in multi tool (fits In bb) (100) i9 MatchStix (145), Garmin Edge 1030 (600) quark Tirewiz (200), custom stem caps and bar ends (70), bike mounted shock pump (50), NUKEPROOF SAM HILL FREAKING HAND GAURD (70) = $24,657
Not including tools, helmet, pads, etc.
  • + 2
 @AidenGowans: Yep, it gets crazy
  • + 9
 @AidenGowans: You need to look deeper into Germany for expensive parts, Reset racing pedals are 600€, Trickstuff maxima brakes are supposed to be 1000€ on kickstarter (then add carbon-ti rotors for 200€ a piece)...
  • + 1
 @AidenGowans: gotta keep with money busy spending it
  • + 10
 THERE EXISTS IN THIS WORLD A $1700 BIKE SEAT?! Eek
  • + 2
 @AidenGowans: This is insane and all, but the bike industry needs to keep up with the ski industry www.foilskis.com/product/oro_nero These are something like $60k a pair. The saddle is a step in that direction, but why not a carbon frame with a wood veneer and gold plated hardware left and right.
  • + 2
 @taquitos: depleted uranium spokes, diamond crusted nipples
  • + 3
 @mkotowski1: I've heard diamond pegs on pedals give good grip. Especially platinum pedals.
  • + 1
 @mtbikeaddict: I too saw the chilling gaze of the abyss! Big Grin
  • + 1
 @AidenGowans: Don't forget to add some Stages power meter too, and you can add some truly powerful blinders that could take on Tomorrowland...
Trickstuff Direttissima brakes go for like 900USD, Intend Aero rotors go for like 120USD each,...
Good times for bike riders, these times...
  • + 0
 @Fulgacian: power meter cranks with power meter pedals and power meter shoes. Just to be sure! That’s easily 3000$.
  • + 1
 @Fulgacian: Trickstuff Maxima brakes are approx 1300USD...
  • + 65
 Sorry, good luck to the guys who want this but I just yearn for the fun of a simple human powered vehicle. No motors, servos, bluetooth, circuits, whatever...old fashioned I know but that’s me.
  • + 18
 I feel you bruh. The last thing I want on a mountain bike ride is an electric machine that will undoubtably be harder to fix if anything went wrong. I'd rather see the industry shift towards mechanically actuated gearbox technology than wireless-electric derailleurs. But hey, what do I know.
  • + 9
 @crispycritter: I hear you, but it’s only a matter of time before this sorcery becomes the norm. It’s an inevitable wave on which we all shall ride some day. It wasn’t that long ago people said the same about dropper posts.
  • + 1
 only way to be imo.
  • + 15
 Anything requiring a battery can go fuck off.
  • + 11
 100% with you there, I love that my bike is one of the few things in my life that is mechanical head to toe, nothing you can't figure out if you look at it for long enough. Also environmentally batteries are a bit of a disaster so ethically I'd rather minimise the amount of them I use, especially when they are replacing something that works really well.
  • + 2
 Aww man, but at least I wanna keep my little Sigma wireless PC. I like having a clock and a miles counter.
  • + 12
 @chriskneeland: said your girlfriend/wife never
  • + 7
 @Samuel-L-Jackson: E-components are the men's version of a dildo.
  • + 5
 I disagree that a modern mechanical bike is old fashioned. They're loaded with technology; mechanical systems take expertise to development and years of testing. I don't like electronics on my bike either, but I heckin' LOVE all the technology on my bike!
  • + 3
 @Samuel-L-Jackson: I agree that crazy stuff eventually becomes norm, but the big difference here is the electronics. Better tech (like a dropper) that is still mechanical is more likely to be norm quickly. Once you have to plug stuff in/rely on batteries, more people will draw a line. Or the price draws the line.
  • + 6
 No cables, no cable stretch or lube, no internal tubing, less frame bosses, less rattling etc. It may not be simpler to manufacture, but its simpler for the rider.
  • + 2
 @your-pal-al: This! No expensive deraileur to smash to bits, less unsprung weight.

Would love to see them become lighter and easier to shift.
  • + 1
 @crsimmons: You make a valid observation there. It’s a vote up from me.
  • + 1
 @chriskneeland: Just playing man, seemed too good an opportunity for a dildo joke to let let slide ;-)
  • + 2
 @motard5: Until it fails and then you can't fix it. And everything fails at one point. And then you take a 2$ cable from your pack and go on.
  • + 1
 @Fulgacian: You honestly carry a $2 shift cable in your pack? Even my world is going to end lets be prepared 8-speed cassettes 4-life friends don't do that. Hardcore.
  • + 57
 bikes look so clean with only 2 brake hoses.
  • + 42
 that's why I run singlespeed
  • + 48
 You still use brakes? That's so last week.
  • + 5
 Only if there's no holes in the frame.
  • + 6
 @jclnv: i can see the marketing now: "zero holes in your frame prevents water from getting in and also increases your aerodynamics!!"
  • + 8
 But brakes can also be wireless Big Grin
  • + 5
 Electric brakes coming next, watch out!
  • + 0
 @zyoungson: When this comes up I sincerely hope that some insane people Here in Austria and Germany wont "hack" your brakes.
The are not afraid of installing metal wire in 1.5m height...
  • + 2
 Pretty sure that's why brakeless BMX is a thing, it looks sick!
  • + 2
 @elliottglynn: now you get the same clean lines, with gears!
  • + 48
 An app? Am I going to start getting weight loss ads when they see I only climb hills in granny gears?
  • + 13
 RynoPower....
  • + 35
 None of the actual tech matters, everyone just wants the new fancy color
  • + 2
 Yup. Looks like ti dye spokes from back in the day.
  • + 24
 I like to go cheap on the derailleur and splurge on the shifter. That way I don't feel too bad when a scrape it across every damn rock in the Southwest. I've been doing this for a while and notice no compromise in shift quality. Rear D's are expendable items...and that's, like, just my opinion, man.
  • + 20
 Can confirm: you do like to hit every rock in the Southwest.
  • + 4
 @Klainmeister: every. damn. rock.
  • + 3
 But a nice rear derailleur really ties the bike together, does it not?
  • + 4
 Agree. GX, $100, FTW.
  • + 23
 Wish I could hack sram and watch random reverbs popping up mid race stage
  • + 5
 WEP used to be thought secure. When someone figures how to hack a reverb, they will literally be messing with your ass.
  • + 7
 hacking is unnecessary. Just broadcast a strong enough signal on its wavelength and it can't communicate.
  • + 1
 So much potential here. The easiest thing would just be an 802.11 repeater...can be bought at Wal-Mart for like $30. Set it to the same channel AXS runs on and you'll shut down every AXS bike you pass.
  • + 16
 Kudos to sram for providing backward compatibility. You don't see that too often in the bike world. I'm also impressed by the road/gravel/mtb interchangeability. I think sram has done well here so long as long as it works consistently and remains durable.
  • + 19
 Before everyone starts complaining, I'm going to say this is cool and then move on with my day
  • + 0
 Yeah its, cool, but a 2,000 drivetrain isn't on my shopping list.
  • + 4
 dude, being able to control your dropper from the "sprint paddle" is wicked cool. Eventually may see a trickledown version that I'd be willing to try (ie in my price range) definitely pretty damn neat.
  • + 0
 @connorjuliusjohnson: dropper can't be controlled with the sprint button independent of the shifter as it is one button. The sprint paddle is connected to the shift buttons.
  • + 1
 @Bflutz625: Look at the AXS App paragraph - "Want your Reverb AXS remote on the left to shift to a higher gear, the shifter button in the right to move the chain to an easier gear, and the ''secret sprint paddle'' to control the Reverb? Not a problem and as easy as tapping your phone's screen a few times. "
  • + 15
 Sram really missed out on the chance to call this E(agle)-Tap...
  • + 5
 They missed the chance to add 2 teeth to the giant saucer and trump Shimano by one. 520% range is better than 500.
  • + 53
 @WAKIdesigns: they have already trumped them by actually producing it
  • - 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 6, 2019 at 7:35) (Below Threshold)
 @Tr011: Unless Shimano will discontinue it which will make an impression to some people that SRAM got played since after all electronic shifting is a bag of bollocks. The question would be then, if Shimano made a dildo shaped trigger would sram feel the need to make a bigger one?
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: shimano produced a dildo shaped price tag to f*ck your wallet
  • - 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 6, 2019 at 7:44) (Below Threshold)
 @Tr011: cuz 2000$ for a drivetrain is cheap
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: cheaper than di2 or eps
  • + 6
 Shimano who? Didn’t know you like Fishing Gear?
  • - 12
flag WAKIdesigns (Feb 6, 2019 at 7:59) (Below Threshold)
 @Tr011: yeah, only double of what mechanical X01 costs. Makes perfect sense. Should we also discuss prices of Carbon Fibre disc rotors of different makes whether one makes more sense than another? We could maybe compare Cashemere cycling socks? Goretex hydration packs? Kashima coated gear cables?
  • + 1
 @Tr011: It looks like the DI2 is about $400 cheaper online.
  • - 7
flag JohanG (Feb 6, 2019 at 9:46) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: I think the $2000 is just for the rear derailleur and handlebar switch.
  • + 4
 @JohanG: its 2k for the ENTIRE drivetrain..
  • + 2
 @TylerG96: bargain for what you get! So much gains!
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: also worth mentioning that Shimano groupsets include brakes where SRAM doesn't. At XTR level that can easily be $400-500.
  • + 11
 What drugs were they on when they decided on $800 USD? You can buy a brand new Magura VYRON wireless dropper for $470 CAD/$355 USD.

More than DOUBLE the cost of the Magura...
  • + 13
 But then your dropper wouldn't match your drivetrain. #trailfashion
  • + 10
 Can’t wait to program my friends bike to shift all the way down to the 50tooth when he tries grab his final upshift at 40mph
  • + 6
 I have the current gen of etap on my road bike and I love it. I think people will really come around once they start figuing out all the benefits. One of the really overlooked parts is ease of travel. If you've every had to pack your bike for a flight, you know what a pain it is, particularly dealing with a hydraulic dropper! Being able to leave it extended and just pull it out will make life so much easier!!! Also, no more cable tension issues with eagle RD? Sign me up! Currently, it takes me around a month to get eagle dialed in when accounting for cable stretch. No more of that!

Finally, battery life really isn't a big issue. I have a little charger station near my front door where I leave my GPS, lights, gopro and etap batteries charging before rides. Never an issue (it is a bonus theft deterrent though; if you need to use the facilities, put your bike in lowest gear and pop off the battery, no one is escaping quickly on that!).
  • + 3
 Agree no doubt functionality will be excellent just the pricing point for now, give it 2 or 3 years Battery ok but could do with being 48hrs to last the wkend without thinking I need to charge them all.
  • + 8
 @enduroFactory: you do 48 hours of riding over a weekend? You are one fit bastard!
  • + 6
 My biggest source of curiosity is what if we already have a X01 Drive train and want to switch the derailleur and shifter to the wireless version. Is that possible? If so I may be on board. I like that there isn't a lot of insane cable routing.
  • + 6
 This all sucks ... until it ends up on MY bike, in which case it'll be awesome.

On a similar note, all the whining on here reminds me of the infamous customer-feedback quote (incorrectly) attributed to Henry Ford:

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

"If I asked cheapskate Pinkbike forum denizens they wanted, they would have said cushier saddles."
  • + 5
 has SRAM said how low of a temperature these batteries will operate? the last couple rides in the polar vortex had my buddies shift cable frozen and stuck in low gear. but the lithium batteries typically dont like below freezing conditions either.
  • + 1
 Not to mention your 20 hour derailleur battery is probably good for 12-15 hours.
  • + 0
 @yzedf: 12-15 mins
  • + 1
 Should be the same as eTap, or at least similar. People using it for cross all over the place, right?
  • + 1
 Hopefully they can operate at a lower temp than my regular reverb does.
  • + 9
 Did anyone notice the new Pike with the RC2 damper? Big Grin
  • + 1
 Goodbye Fox 34
  • + 7
 No I went blind after I saw the price of this.
  • + 1
 The Pike, Yari and Lyrik all use the same 35mm chassis so the RC2 is cross compatible between all of these forks. Fox used to make a 34 RC2 not sure why they stopped. Those who wish to have RC2 in their 34 would find the advantage of a 36 through the added weight.
  • + 6
 I think it's really cool that some companies are releasing products that we will actually be able to buy instead of looking at them on a companies instagram and re-reading 6 month old "first ride" reviews.
  • + 10
 The E-Eagle has landed.
  • + 7
 Say what you want about the electronic shifting but that oil slick cassette+chain combo looks sweet!
  • + 4
 I've always had this daydream about a 1x drivetrain with 2 shifters for right hand shift up and left hand shift down. Just like the flappy paddles in a race car! Now, finally, I can make that a multi-thousand dollar reality.
  • + 4
 The one thing I really like about my mntb is that there are no batteries and its kept very simple. I have enough batteries in my life....dont need any more. This should work for the techy crowd though that loves power gadgets.
  • + 9
 laughing my wallet off
  • + 8
 I'm going to call it free bird
  • + 7
 Not Seagul?
  • + 4
 @mikelevy: I was hoping every time I shifted, it would play some Lynyrd Skynyrd
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: SRAM Shit Hawk when it breaks !
  • + 2
 @mikelevy: I think you meant Seagal.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: Steven seagull?
  • + 2
 @mkotowski1: Steve’n Seagulls. Your welcome. m.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Ao-iNPPUc
  • + 1
 @HurricaneCycles: haha wasn’t expecting that, they’re pretty good
  • + 1
 @mikelevy: We call mechanical X01 Seagul here, because it's not as good as eagle.
  • + 7
 So that's a new RockShox Pike?
  • + 5
 Same chassis by the looks of it with different decals... HOWEVER! It does like the Yeti here and other bikes fitted with the new groupsets have Pikes with an RC2 damper inside... Look at the compression adjuster, that's not standard Pike fair!
  • + 2
 角度刁钻,我猜只是把lyrik RC2的阻尼搬上PIKE而已。其实现有款式你也可以直接把lyrik的阻尼拧下来装上PIKE。至于外观,贴纸罢了
  • + 7
 @squirrelbomb: couldn't agree more!
  • + 7
 @squirrelbomb: well, can't argue with that
  • + 1
 @squirrelbomb: 所以还是新Pike。
  • + 3
 I'm sure everyone on this thread that resists product change (probably in all facets of their lives) would grab this electronic group if offered at no cost. Personally, I'd love to have precise shifts via electronics any day of the week. My GX Eagle works amazing...but why would I resist this technology? Keep pushing the "norm" SRAM!
  • + 3
 Funny, when one by narrow wide came out, so many people were complaining and fighting it, saying they’ll never need it, use it, whatever. Also that it was way too expensive, and here we are, years later, saying the same things about the obvious direction and progression biking is going, and 99 percent of us have one by drive trains on our bikes. Sit back, enjoy the innovation and wait for the trickle down-in five years electric will be a standard spec and we will all be riding it, bitching about the next great thing in biking. Damn ya’ll. Chill. This is awesome!!!!
  • + 3
 Honestly I'm impressed. Cheaper than Shimano XTR, no hassle with cable (well I guess it's wire now) routing, and no extra battery to mount. Also glad to see that they are actively marketing this as another option to mechanical and it sounds like they'll be keeping mechanical around for the foreseeable future. If you're scared of the electronic witchcraft, no worries, just keep buying mechanical!
  • + 7
 My dream: Electronic Grip Shift, who's in?
  • + 2
 Yes, I miss accidentally shifting if I land wrong or get too crazy through rough sections.
  • + 1
 1000% in. The videos show this has a sprint shift option where you can upshift using your right index knuckle moving forward in a gripshift motion.
  • + 1
 I will wait for the grip shift version of the shifter. @TypicalCanadian: not an issue I've ever experienced with gripshift. It's better in tricky rough stuff because you never have to release your index finger thumb grip.
  • + 3
 "Step right up folks, step right up - for the same cost as a complete alu bike, I'll sell you this shiny new wireless derailleur that you and your Joey-ass friends will likely smash to bits on the first ride. No bike? No problem! I have a van full of $10k carbon bikes from last season that were just sitting around our warehouse waiting for a pro just like YOU!"
  • + 2
 Cables fer life! I like fancy new shit as much as anyone else but I think my line has been drawn. Even if it was cheaper ($2K for a drivetrain??!!) I'd probably still want a cable. I can change $8 worth of cable in minutes and be good for the season.
  • + 2
 @pinkbikeaudience @mikelevy — okay, I’m going to say it. I think that’s the best video Mike has put out. Very well articulated. Loved that he called-out the ‘controller’ nomenclature and went with shifter (because that’s what everyone outside of SRAM’s marketing department is going to call it). Even the uplifting poppy music in the background was awesome. Great work allround.
  • + 1
 Smile
  • + 4
 Should hook SRAM up with Pinion for wireless gearbox shifting. Buuuuut, then there wouldn't be truckloads of replacement derailleurs to sell!
  • + 2
 I wonder if shifting under-load is vastly improved or not. That seems to be a functional gap that has seen meager improvements too but nothing that just made it and complete "non-issue" like "shift under load all you want, its the best". Was wondering if maybe these gears and extra clutch make that a reality. Guessing not? I haven't ridden new XTR, they claim that its a bit better on that tho.
  • + 2
 It would be pretty cool if that 3rd button could lock out a rear shock.

This system would be real nice for those that move parts between bikes often.

If it shifts better than Eagle under load, I'm in. After discounts on just the parts I need and selling my old Eagle parts I'll be out $450 or so, no biggie if it improves my experience.
  • + 3
 no gripshift actuation? ;-)

also, will that derailleur work with an 11sp cassette? i'm guessing the spacing is different, but since it's not a mechanical shifter, it should be able to work...
  • + 3
 On my engineering team we subscribe to a basic rule: KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID! While this is a neat technology, I fail to see how this actually benefits the end user, it just adds complexity to the drive train IMO
  • + 6
 Makes sense if you're designing gates, ladders and alike
  • + 4
 I could sort of see the case for e-shifting for 2x drivetrains, since it takes the thinking out of the equation (go for a chainring or cassette shift?). For 1x, that benefit is gone. Meaning this thing has to be awfully rock-solid to overcome the risk and cost from the additional complexity - rock solid not just in mitigating those factors, but in delivering some sort of real benefit. It would be interesting to line this up against both a current XX1 drivetrain and the new XTR (which, availability issues aside, at this point seems to be the new benchmarks on how tolerant a modern drivetrain can be of shifting under load, both up and down). If the only benefits are no cable routing and whiz-bang, the cost/benefit is going to look a little weak. If there's some seriously awesome shifting performance that comes from this, it might be worth it to the people willing to invest that much in their drivetrain. I'm more of an SLX/XT guy in search of pretty awesome performance at a solid-value price point, so I'm definitely not the demographic for this - but I'd think that for those who are, there'll still be a bit more to convince them to go there. I see a lot of things that would make a real difference on even a high-end bike (custom shock tune, carbon wheels, what have you) people would want to invest into before e-shifting...
  • + 2
 I imagine that in a race a broken derailleur could be changed in seconds in a pit stop. It'll be be like a Formula One tyre change. Someone will work out a quick way of threading the chain through. ZZZT, ZZZZt, changed in four seconds!
  • + 2
 So - does this mean they could also implement automatic gear changing pretty easily - they could link in a power meter, or something, that triggers the gear shifting based on how hard you are peddling - they did it with cars ... the future is now people

OR

Voice control -- "OK SHRAM . shift up .. shift down .. seat up .. seat down ... front brake .. " .. ahhh... the future is looking so rosy ...
  • + 1
 Shimano has auto shifting on their Alfine Di2 8 speed hub gear. It actually works pretty well for casual riding but for anything more aggressive it is super annoying and that's on the road. Auto shifting a derailleur is a recipe for a mangled mech and a long walk home.
  • + 2
 I've used etap on road and its flawless but always in my mind was if I lay this bike down it is going to cost me 700 for a new derailer. Expensive yes but if it works as good as the road stuff many will be very happy and I'm sure axs gx will be sick!
  • + 6
 No lake jumping ?
Sorry I‘m out Wink
  • + 3
 All the journalists praising electronic shifting who would buy this paying from their own pocket, raise your hand. No worries, take your time, I will be checking this space until 2025
  • + 4
 I can already feel my internal routing just staring at me like my bike is naked
  • + 1
 It's cool that if you are already running Eagle you can (at some point in the future, anyway) just throw down for the derailleur and shifter. I'm sure the individual component costs will be really expensive, but nowhere near $2,000. I'm guessing $900 +/-MSRP for shifter and derailleur? Maybe $700 dealer cost? That's clearly outrageous, but in the realm of what we'd expect given current prices for exotic MTB frames & parts.
  • + 1
 I'm on board for the second or third gen, when the bugs have been worked out and the price drops.
I think it addresses a LOT of drivetrain issues. Any minor amount of crud in cable housing, or kinked cable housing screws up shifting, especially in wet muddy climates. This solves that issue.

I'm kinda on the fence for wireless droppers, I mean the cables are internally housed with near zero chance of contamination. It's not a precise actuation device (only requires on/off).
  • + 2
 I like how it's designed and how it works and would definitely like to have it on my bike.
But it also got me thinking that a Pinion gearbox with a wireless shifter would be awesome.
(getting rid of their massive gripshift)
  • + 1
 This times a million. All the pinion needs to shift is a small rotating servo to act as the gripshift does, that could be controlled by a wireless shifter PLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEEE!!!!!
  • + 1
 My question would be:
What does really happen if you bend your hanger, it was written that you could move the derailleur by using the app.
But could you programm the derailleur on the position of each cog? Because that's the problem I experience using mechanical ones, you can change the tension of the whole system, but often it is one gear that's not working quit perfect.
If wireless shifting could offer a solution for that problem it would be a real gamechanger.
  • + 1
 Current GX 12 speed is fantastic and this electronic groupset seems to be a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Sorry SRAM, but the next evolution of current drive trains should be lightweight gearboxes. Not hanging a $500+ mech out the back of your bike to get smashed to pieces.
  • + 2
 So in theory, you could just buy a derailleur, shifter and seatpost and do away with the reverb controller? Seems easy to just use the two rear buttons for shifting and the front "knuckle" button for the seatpost?
  • + 1
 These will sell, but all that proves is that some folks have more money than sense. The last thing I spend money on is drivertrain, my money in order goes to a frame with good geo, a suspension that works well, tires that do the job, and a functional cockpit. My drivertrain is all GX, works well, durable, cheap to replace.
  • + 3
 Soon to come; frames without cable guides --- the next logical step in forcing expensive technology onto consumers that they really do not need.
  • + 1
 The UK is getting a ripped off on the prices. In the US, XO1 AXS is $707 more than standard XO1. That's £546 at today's rates. In Europe it's 694 euros more, which is £607 at today's rates. In the UK, however, in GBP, it's £895 more. £900 POUNDS!!!

XO1 AXS should be about £1600. But it's not, is it. It's £1900. It's also $1900. Just awesome.

BTW, it's even worse on the XX1 prices, £777 GBP more vs 575 euros (£504) and $583 (£450).
  • + 1
 The shifter communcates to the derailleur via Ant+ and Bluetooth which might foreshadow a Gen II version where the shift and seat post data can be downloaded or used in other applications like trail based auto shift, Strava etc. MotoGP bikes know where they are on the track and adapt engine braking, wheelie and traction control based on location so why not bikes.
  • + 2
 the future showed up on a wednesday and all you notice was the price. Excited to see this Technology move forward and become price competitive just like the current NX eagle group.
  • + 2
 Can’t wait to order my new Nomad29/Megatower/Whatever its called CC XX1 AXS for 13k.

However, if they don’t remove the internal cable routing and plug the holes, I’m out.

Needs to be totally clean.
  • + 1
 I still don't get it. Why is this such amazing news? Shimano brought Di2 to the masses in 2014. And now people are flipping about this nonsense? Progress is great and all, but this is .001% stuff. Trickle-down through the years may be helpful in some way/shape/form, but calm down people...
  • + 2
 I expect it will be amazing, right up to the point where I smash it off on a rock & it cartwheels off the mountainside.

Then I can add insult to injury & pony up $800 for a new rear mech.
  • + 3
 Article: "encrypted wireless network"
Hackers: "I should buy one, hack it, and test my skills at an EWS race. Challenge accepted, SRAM"
  • + 1
 I bet you there are people working out how to jam them right now.
  • + 1
 @Treadly: someone likely is just based on simple principles of cyber/hardware security. Granted, I imagine that SRAM has hired a firm to test it.

If not, anyone from SRAM can slide into my DMs
  • + 1
 I gotta say, the idea that you can have a bike run off of anything but steel cables is pretty cool. Definitely not practical and the cost of entry is more than enough that most of us won't even be lucky enough to find out what it rides like, but it wasn't too long ago that no one even considered this possible.
  • + 1
 That looks gorgeous, however giving previous SRAM reliability experience - no

Whats look promising - any frame could accomodate this, no di2 ports needed, also no stupid displays;

What it not - 12 specific, comparing to shimano
  • + 2
 Wish i was interested in the cableless system but im more in to the oil slick cassette and chain dont get me wrong the eagle is excellent but the cassette iv had an accident in my pant sorry lol
  • + 2
 (Phone rings)
Me: Hey, dude! Would you mind waiting for me like 1 hour or so?? I forgot to charge my derailleur batteries!
Dude: Ok, mate. I'll put a set of brackets to a child while waiting.
  • + 1
 Hope it's reliable, My current Etap experience shows otherwise! Two bikes I regularly service at work were upgraded to Etap just over a year ago, they've had 5 rear mechs between them over that time, they just stop shifting or develop major lag i.e. you press shifter gears don't move for 10-20 crank revolutions, then it goes and testicle/stem interface is likely! All replaced under warranty thankfully, hopefully the AXS version is better. Just for balance I see a fair few Di2 problems to, tend to be able to do something about those though, rather than a straight warranty claim.
  • + 4
 Dentists: heavy breathing
  • + 3
 Would be really cool if the battery could recharge off of one of the pulley wheels. Next version maybe?
  • + 3
 didn't read the article , just glad sram knocked that pos niner off the banner of the homepage.
  • + 1
 NINO Schurter lost a WC XC short track race due to this crap. No matter how much you encrypt wireless it will be allways prone to jamming. Shimano got it right with DI2 and used cables and only one battery.
  • + 2
 The jamming attacks are going to be epic. All they have to do is put it in a backpack and sit at the foot of a climb.
  • + 3
 I'm already working on a drone-borne jammer. Gonna be the best TDF prank since Watson hucked the peloton.
  • + 1
 @dfiler: Unfortunatelly for you all the teams abandoned SRAM in the TDF pro pelloton. Might be for this reason. It is all dominated by Shimano a Campagnolo who have both wired systems.
  • + 0
 Until SRAM stop producing their components out of some kind of soft cheese I’m out.

Had SRAM drive trains oem on a number of bikes and never has a mech lasted me more than 2 months. Every time I try it it’s a waste of time and I end up back on the fit and forget XT and saint
  • + 1
 So I can use the 3rd button for the reverb? Getting there. Gives me the left for on the fly wireless compression adjustment on my hectic coil setup. Will only go wireless when I can have ALL the above.
  • + 0
 yay! more batteries where will it stop? when the world turns to a giant open pit mine, maybe

On a more serious note, now we just need a frame with an integrated zero point energy generator, but then no one will know what to do with so many batteries.
  • + 1
 Electrical Regenerative braking. Applying the brakes will charge the battery.
  • + 1
 @Treadly: Yeah right, forget thermodynamics and battery wear... and there isn't a working zero point generator, so... the solution really is exponential growth in open pit mines.
  • + 1
 I hate E-Bikes, but this! def this! maybe not at this price but the GX 2 $1000 and not have to bring bike into shop to get the shifting just right cause i suck at that! Worth it
  • + 2
 @mikelevy what are you nicknaming your carbon wheeled, electronic shifting, electronic dropping, trust fork equipped wonderbike? Troll Bait? Anger Machine? Rageahol?
  • + 0
 So between this, the E-Verb, and the Message fork, I'm at $5,500? No I just need a frame, wheels, cockpit, brakes, tires, saddle, and pedals - shouldn't run more than another $7,200 for those? Definitely under $14k out the door!
  • + 1
 shimano is so far behind at this point. looks like theyre playing catchup big time across the board lmao. once this tech trickles into gx and their road groups are down into the cheaper end well.
  • + 2
 How does it perform when downshifting 3-4 gears at a time? This is something that the road version wasn't awesome at but it's not a frequent move on a road bike.
  • + 1
 So I'm trying to think here. if I got a Pivot Mach 5.5, highest build kit, with the wireless XX1, wireless dropper and Fox Live-valve. Has anyone done the math on that pricetag?
  • + 1
 Close to 12,000 13,000 I'm guessing
  • + 1
 What I would like to see is a wireless electronic rear shock remote to toggle the three positions on my rear shock without having to reach down near my feet when the going gets rough!
  • + 2
 Direct to Consumer brands: "lets make biking cheaper and more accessible to more people!"

Sram: "Hold my 30 year aged scotch"
  • + 1
 Direct to Consumer brands: Let's make more money for ourselves by cutting out the distribution/lbs channel.

FTFY
  • + 0
 Hey @mikelevy , how does the AXS shifter clikers and functionality _feel_ when you compare to XT(R) Di2 clickers and shifting action?

Which has better clickers and does one have "crispier" shifting than the other..?

I don't expect there to be any major difference, but is there any noticeable difference..?
  • + 2
 Let’s hang something really expensive on one of the lowest parts of the bike.....why not develop a gear box like the Pinion
  • + 3
 You only save $100 dollars by getting the cheaper version???? Can that even be called a cheaper version?
  • + 1
 The only differences are the crank (XX1 is hollow), and the colour. Identical otherwise.
  • + 1
 @tomhoward379: Also stainless bolts instead of Ti and an aluminium cage rather than carbon on the mech.
  • + 0
 If it shifts better with no weight gain, I'm in. If it has any more than a few grams weight gain hanging at the end of the chainstay, it's going to need to REALLY shift better. I don't find cables to be particularly reliable and I don't like how mine hangs below my BB either.
  • + 2
 We're there any positive comments?

Just skimmed through and didn't see any.

Feels like we are in the gold rush technology boom of mountain biking before the big crash...
  • + 0
 Why has everybody forgot that shimano has had this for years? Who cares about wireless, 20 hours battery? I charge my di2 twice a year, thats well worth a wire in the existing cable port. Its not like wires need replacing and maintenance like cables.
  • + 4
 I’ll take “shit we don’t need” for two thousand, Alex.
  • + 1
 I’ve been thinking about this for a few days , and I really do think this is going to take off. I’m not even in favour of it, but I think it will really have an impact on the mtb industry.
  • + 1
 If I was filthy rich..........I still don't even know. Keeping a battery charged so you can shift? This is some nerdy ass shizz. I'm glad it exists, but don't see ever using it.
  • + 1
 I'm interested in if this stuff is good for gated racing, 4X an dual. Shifting like a C#nt under super heavy sprint loads. Modifiable for small 3-7 speed blocks?

As soon as it reaches my price point I'm on it!
  • + 2
 That’s the thing with all things e. Lots of negativity and shit talk and then you try it and it works and it’s better and it leaves a smile on your face.
  • + 0
 Potential markets:

1. Irritating fuktards that can't separate their smart phone from their bike.
2. The slowest person on every ride.
3. People that basically don't like mountain biking.

Potential marketing tools:
1. Pro athletes that are going to be PISSED when a system or battery failure blows a result for them.


Its going to be harder to tell when a total no-talent ass goon is coming. The go pro cameras, matching kit, and full DH armor on a trail ride used to be a dead giveaway. Some electronic cables and a little servo aren't so obvious.
  • + 3
 It's already happened to Nino on a prototype
  • + 2
 Anyone think we will see these on World Cup bikes soon (XC or DH) ? Curious if the accuracy is worth the potentially slight increase in weight for the top guys and gals.
  • + 4
 Nino ran this last season, at least in a couple of rounds.
  • + 1
 @mikelevy good question here for DH. This AXS is 12speed, is there any way to remap via your phone into a 7sp (actual 11sp)?
  • + 1
 @qreative-bicycle: Nope, no such function within the app.
  • + 2
 Man, people are aggressive with the down arrows on here. Seemed like a legitimate/ interesting question to me.
  • + 1
 ive been running SRAM gx eagle on my santa cruz. super reliable except for the fact that the jockey wheel has exploxed twice...... warranty covers this at least and only 150 bucks for a brand new one
  • + 0
 It isn't wearing a tinfoil hat when you worry about the security of an embedded device. By rolling their own protocols and claiming encryption is going to somehow prevent someone on the sideline from muddling with their device, they haven't exactly given me a lot of confidence that's the case.
  • + 2
 source: I work with embedded manufacturers on devices just like this in other fields and have heard the same claims several dozen times, but when we started to reverse engineer and test the device, found a lot of problems in their implementation that allowed exactly what they didn't think was possible.

...but hey, some people do it right, although they are in the minority.
  • + 2
 @shinook: This protocol is the same as 11 speed eTap, and I haven't heard of any issues with that one. The protocol is probably the most tested piece of the whole thing.
  • + 0
 @mobaar: The issue is less about reliability/functionality and more about someone with nefarious intent doing something outside of what the designers of the protocol or device expected. An example would be spoofing as the shifter and forcing gear shifts or trim changes to throw off the drivetrain or shift gears when the rider wasn't expecting. If you consider the level these drivetrains will be used in competition, that could be a big concern.

I'm sure that they considered that with whatever association process they have between the two, but my experience is that most manufacturers of embedded devices like this develop the protocols and devices around functionality first and security is an afterthought, which often means there are ways of forcing the devices to do things that aren't intended, although it has to be done intentionally. An example would be pairing the shifters, they probably designed the protocol to ensure there was no accidental interference with other drivetrains, but not to prevent someone on the sidelines from intentionally forcing a gear change and spoofing someone else's shifter.

Granted, it's a fair amount of work to get there, but I've heard a lot of device vendors claim their devices are 'secure' simply because they use encryption and proprietary protocols, but once you take a look at what they are doing, it's implemented incorrectly and doesn't solve the problems they think it does. If you consider these components will likely be used at high level competitions (e.g. Olympics), the implications of someone doing nefarious could have impacts on the competition, at best, and at worst, cause injury.

As for your experiences, unless you were intentionally being targeted by someone or made an effort to reverse engineer the devices, protocol, and communications, then that's really not the issue. I have no doubt it's reliable, the question is what can someone do to it with a little RE work and with bad intentions.
  • + 3
 I’ll wait for the GX Bluetooth version so it can play Immigrant Song when things really get rollin’.
  • + 0
 So the whole downside of an electric derailleur is that it needs batteries (and the cost obviously), You wanna go out for a ride but, oops you forgot to charge your derailleur. I think it would be nice in the to see a self charging model in the future. To harness power from the spinning wheel literally right next to it, it's the same idea as a Prius that recharges its battery using breaking power. That would be the ultimate electric component, all the perks of no cables and easy shifting but no batteries to worry about.
  • + 3
 Within few years Skynet will take control of it. And your bike will ask "Are you Sarah Conor?"
  • + 2
 Shame the unit isn't able to self-charge with pedalling... that would be impressive
  • + 3
 Sweet so i can buy one in 10 years maybe once prices become reasonable
  • + 0
 Can it be ran as a 7 speed? It would be great to have the ability to change the limits of the derailleur. I hate having all those pointless gears in the back. Did I just give an idea to Sram's development team?
  • + 3
 Is this the AXS of Eagle that GW Bush was on about?
  • + 1
 Just doing the math...$585 for an x01 crankset, bb, and chain. So that means $1315 for a shifter and derailleur (and charging stuff). So about $657 each for those components.
  • + 1
 You may want to add the cost of the cassette into that little equation..
  • + 1
 @tomhoward379: +$385, adjusted priced: $930 for shifter/derailleur or $465/each.
  • + 0
 If this was $500 for the derailluer and shifter it would be worth it. Once it comes down in price it will be on everyone's bike, but for what it is the price seems high, even for mountain bikes
  • + 1
 If I sold my entire bike I could *almost* afford an Eagle wireless derailleur... At least it wouldn't get damaged if I didn't have a bike to put it on.
  • + 2
 I'm diggin' that XO1 Crank, but the whole drivetrain does look pretty clean, I must say.
  • + 0
 It's good to see all the progress in technology, but it would be great to see some progress on a field "the bikes are good enough these days, let's see how to make them affordable"
  • + 0
 It’s only a matter of time before cyber-warfare becomes a part of MTB racing. Imagine if all of Ninos’s competitor’s drive trains suddenly “malfunctioned” and slipped into a low gear on a climb...
  • + 0
 Cool, but here is the reality: because I'm reasonably forgetful, dumb or just plain busy I will eventually forget to charge it. I foresee many ruined sessions because, 'damnit, forgot to charge it!'.
  • + 2
 To me, the real game changer is being able to ditch the dropper remote and control everything with one shifter/remote.
  • + 3
 The jet fuel cassette looks pretty slick.
  • + 1
 Very cool, very out of my price range. I look forward to working on these for rich friends. I will give it a few years for the trickle down to kick in.
  • + 0
 Excited! Hacking challenge of wireless sram is now open. And i´m sure some of the first few samples go to some of Ninos rivals. And batterie time is not 20, it is 19.99 minutes!
  • + 0
 All of you should buy this so that in 3-5 years it's at NX level prices. I'm not much for electronics on my bike, but it's hard to argue with never worrying about cables or housing or even a battery hidden in the frame.
  • + 5
 I never worry about cables or housing.
  • + 1
 Terrapin, that would be Sram, Sunrace, MicroShift and Ztto. Companies who understand everything Shima-who? doesnt about what the market wants now not 7 years ago.
  • + 3
 Make wireless brakes! Remove all the cables/hoses from the bike.
  • + 1
 Knock knock....who's there... XTR.....xtr who....XTR mix match. Sorry I don't know you. Knock knock ...who's there... Sram Eagle XRS .....hey bro what's up come on in!
  • + 3
 Barspins are back on the menu!
  • + 2
 I cant wait to see an enduro bike with this, a front brake routed through the topcap and 9 feet of back brake hose wrapped around the headtube 4 times.
  • + 1
 @garb0: "A proper bike" in other words.
  • + 1
 Maybe get the regular eagle group set and reverb to work reliably before you double the price tag and stick some batteries in it
  • - 1
 I love this. While Shimano is 7 years late and counting for a hub that fits a 10t cog... And 3 years and counting with no wireless Di2 Sram drops Shimanowho? Again. While Sram markets the inter compatibility of all Eagle and Dub, MicroShift markets all mountain and road shifter tyoes for their XCD 11 speed and Sunrace does wide 1x from 9 to 12 speeds and 1 RDR for 10 to 12 speed Shimano shows us they are too off the back and too arrogant to get no one wants another chain, ring and crank standard. Shima-who?
  • - 1
 Glad to see Sram dropping Shima-who? again. Staying relevant while their bloated counter part Shimano stuggles to stay relevant with a 7 year old hub that they cant get to work and more new standards while the market and all their competitors are currently focused on simplifying standards and compatibility.
  • + 3
 I figured we would all be on gearbox bikes by now..
  • - 1
 seriously...derailleurs are such a moneymaker for sram and shimano
  • + 2
 why are you not?
  • + 1
 @coney: im going to get a pinion bike as my next steed. the positives outweigh the negatives
  • + 1
 @housem8d: definitely bro. running a taniwha now and it's sweeeeeeeeeeeet. negatives are so minor and the mega traction is way worth it. best bike I've ever ridden hands down.
  • + 1
 Looks cool, don't need cables, it's light, tune it self, it's electric and don't have Shimano logo, cost same as pretty good used bike. Do I need one? NOPE...
  • + 3
 White text on white background photo...maybe not the greatest idea
  • - 1
 Puzzling why they went with such a clunky shifter when it seems like all that are needed are two small buttons or levers, like on one of their prototypes. And why not just give this an automatic mode, where it auto shifts up or down depending on cadence...
  • + 3
 clearly pinkbike should adopt a new unit of measure - the Timbit.
  • + 1
 Just one more thing to remind us that this sport is insanely expensive. 2K for this insanely impressive kit. I paid 2K for my used 2018 Norco range A3...Wow
  • + 3
 Dear Pinion, hurry up and bring on your electronic shifting.
  • + 1
 and honestly i would run this if if i had it on an e-bike. only because i have to charge the bike anyway so i would just plug in the drivetrain in as well
  • + 1
 How much can you custumise it?
Can it connect with the road derailleur? Or vice-versa?
Will it be able to work with 11 speed drivetrains?
  • + 2
 I don't think it'll work with 11 speed stuff, but part of the idea of AXS is that it's completely compatible with other AXS devices. MTB shifters on your road bike? Road shifters with 1x 10-50 cassette? That's all covered. That might not be appealing to everyone, but I really like that MacGyver junk.
  • + 1
 @ilikepinkcrayons: aren't those road shifters 11 speeds?
Is it just a program difference or more?
I didn't figure out how you pair a shifter and derailleur.... Maybe I missed something.
I was hoping it will be future compatible with all the 13 and 14 drivetrains that are on the way. But you can trust the bike industry they won't let that happen.
  • - 1
 Adding mass to the 2nd worst spot on the bike, 1st is front axle. Heavy derailleurs and cassettes increasing the unsprung mass which, over bumps, will need to be turned to heat dissipated by the rear shock or motion translated to the front triangle, which makes the ride rough. I wish we would see more innovation in variable ratio transmissions on the main triangle. This would be a smoother ride (lower unsprung mass of rear suspension), more reliable, cheaper (accounting for smashed derailleurs) and will have more ground clearance.
  • + 2
 @mikelevy Maybe add a photo of the back side of the shifter? Seems like a pretty important aspect of this story...
  • + 3
 "DS, No cable"
Did nobody take a second to question that font color?
  • + 1
 Now they j ust need hybrid technology to recharge the batteries when you pedal and brake.
  • + 0
 What a time to be alive! $300 pedals, $800 seat posts, $2000 wheel sets, $150 shorts and on and on and on....

Let me tell ya’. When I first got into mountain biking...
  • + 1
 To be honest, the reason why I clicked on the artzicle was that I just wanted to see this sick oilslick paint job.
  • + 1
 Still waiting on that XTR quality wide range 10-speed drivetrain over here.
  • + 2
 Can I program the system to fit 11s or even 10s via APP??
  • + 2
 Nope, good question but that's not a function in the app.
  • + 1
 This, I forsee a version where you program your cassette in to the app an it adjusts the parts to work. Imagine showing up to a dual race on your trail bike, swapping the wheel an a shorter chain an then just selecting pre programed slalom mode on the app an the bike is ready to go
  • + 2
 When do we get the wireless brakes!?!?!?!
  • + 3
 Need some guinea pigs to test them....you first :-O
  • + 2
 I go through at least 2 derailleurs a year, this is unaffordable.
  • + 1
 Buys the AXS group and immediately searches for trails with zero, pointy rocky stuff.
  • - 1
 The quote under the Yeti says: "Without a cable in sight, this Yeti SB130 was probably an extremely easy build." Not true, I see 2 cables! That is revolting! I'm waiting for wireless brakes!
  • + 2
 Brakes aren't cable though. Those are houses. Either way it's a lot easier to set proper cable tension than bleeding brakes.
  • + 2
 Hoses*
  • + 1
 I can already foresee this trickling down, SRAM is much faster to trickle down than Shimano, when can I have my GX AXS??
  • + 1
 Sunday morning grabbing the bike and suddenly: "shit forgot to charge the batteries". Back to bed !
  • + 2
 I like the knuckle-dragger switch
  • + 1
 I bet they build in a small generator into the rear hub next. It can be used for a seat post az well
  • + 2
 Put this shifter on a pinion gearbox and I'd pay $2k for it
  • + 0
 If Levy dies, because some hacked his AXS, than I......"put on tinfoil hat".......blame the russians! xD
Muhhh, that's derailleur meddling.
  • + 1
 Oh quit teasing us Sram! You know what we're really all holding out for is a good set of wireless brakes!
  • + 2
 Brace yourselves! The warranties are coming!
  • + 1
 Hey @mikelevy any news if the new XTR will be di2 as well? Gotta admit, I'm a big fan of the clean cockpit look too!
  • + 1
 Are cables really that bad, they’re reinventing the wheel . It’s not that bigger difference, especially for the coin
  • + 1
 *not reinventing
  • + 2
 I am holding out and waiting for wireless brakes.
  • + 1
 “but my first impressions are that I need to take back some of my shit talk.”

@mikelevy never....
  • - 2
 "we've got to the point where it's going to take electronics to improve shifting speed and precision" .... well ... what Di2 proved was the advantage of electronics when it come to shift chain rings, and a marginal, at best, advantage for the rear. Sure SRAM shifting is not as good as XTR so the advantage might be a bit more in this case, but frankly spending this much money for a derailleur + shifter that probably will come out heavier (not lighter) than the mechanical derailleur+shiter+cable and have basically the same performance seems a bit silly.
  • + 2
 So now you need a phone to ride a bike ?...
  • + 1
 If a ride's not on Strava, it didn't happen. Wink
  • - 2
 "An entire Eagle AXS XX1 group is claimed to come in 5-grams lighter than its mechanical sibling..." So the weight savings to go electronic is 5 grams plus the avoided minimal weight of one shifter cable and housing? I applaud innovation and progress but I don't see the value proposition
  • + 1
 Where did u guys ride in tucson? Id have nightmares of exploding one of those der on a rock in the first week!
  • + 3
 TMP for one. I rolled up to a group in full Scott kit at the five-way. 'Which one of you guys is Swiss?'--no reply. Courtney appeared, asking the mechanic if he had her gloves in his sizeable backpack. After all but mechanic departed down lower Rock Wren, mechanic averred that they were at Marriott Starr Pass for SRAM camp, and had I recognized Schurter?--nope. He looks bigger at a distance of five feet.

A few days earlier I had the pleasure of seeing a fellow dump his decked-out S-works following me on the Explorer traverse. He and his unfriendly buddy had no time to chat, but did mention the nearby hotel. I'm sure they were SRAM Europe dudes.

If one can afford an $800 der, one can probably afford another.
  • - 1
 It’s to expensive! This sucks! Why make this! Cables are fine! All the Hack armchair pros and Enduro dudes on here. Same hacks you see trying to fix their “Enduro” bike in the parking lot.
  • - 2
 Shimano won this fight ,shifting with your what ,when I’m charging I’m still with my fingers on the brakes ,and wireless right, if it is like almost the other stuff it will lost the signal for no apparent reason like it has a will of it own ,and after some real riding that thing that holds the batteries in place might just seems like a stupid thing ,but hey don’t stop
  • + 1
 Interested to know if the shifter is compatible with the road mech and cassette. I've got no need for silly eagle ratios.
  • + 0
 Love the idea of it, but I won't be doing this until the cost comes down and the battery life improves. I am a late adopter of stuff for a reason.
  • + 3
 WTF is a Timbit???
  • + 2
 @mikelevy that 'moustache' is distracting
  • + 1
 It's great! If you have several bikes you can swap it from one to the other in no time!
  • + 2
 They should have called it Eagle Tap.
  • + 1
 Couldn't agree more! How is this not the top comment???
  • - 2
 It’s time for Sram and Shimano to get along on one monumental thing.
To make OUR lives better.
Because it’s about us.
The riders.
Work together.
To deliver more.
Trade Srams cage lock for Shimanos adjustable clutch technology.
Then you guys can keep on doing very different things to take the same money from the same people.
  • + 1
 This is where you get it wrong. Sadly, this is not about us but about making the more money they can.
  • + 1
 @Biggs427:
Just because that’s true doesn’t mean things don’t change one day.
I don’t run my life that way and a lot of others don’t also.
  • + 2
 Prototype shifter name...Elvis V3
  • + 0
 No wireless charging, to transfer some juice from the smartphone to get back home? Bike racks / stands that recharge the bike? Bike frames and helmets with solar panels?
  • + 2
 Those internal housing ports going to look awkward.
  • + 1
 waiting for electronic cable actuated by hydraulic rear shifting technology myself.
  • + 2
 Cables never run out of battery power. No thanks.
  • + 1
 Every day closer to the 20000$ bike, just add some Enve to the mix and it's all done
  • + 1
 I salute all you people who are buying this for the next few years. In five years when it's $500 I'll get it.
  • + 1
 I wan't a magic carpet with a carbon rear diffuser and a cup holder. All for fo'tee nine nine'dee nine.
  • + 2
 So, how does it compare to XTR Di2? Better, worse, the same?
  • + 2
 This new casette color is wild
  • + 2
 Now I've seen everything.
  • + 2
 Me: It won't shift
LBS: Have you tried rebooting it?
  • + 1
 Lots of nope here ... not interested, thanks though ~ want some Pizza? Help yourself.
  • + 1
 Is that a new Pike on the front of the yeti? Maybe just next years hawt sticker job?
  • + 1
 They should be working on a rechargable battery using the energy produced by the derailleur wheels. This tip is for free.
  • + 2
 that fork decal is the coolest part of the article Smile I just love it!
  • + 0
 sure ill just throw my wallet out the window every time i have a bad crash and replace this thing for half the cost of a nice bike.
  • + 2
 I think it's awesome, wish I could afford it
  • + 2
 When can I get this with 13 gears
  • + 1
 Ill never embrace electronics on my bike.
  • + 1
 Blazer details and reviews please
  • + 1
 omg now a gearbox in a derailer...fuck me. theyre supposed to be seperate
  • + 0
 You see this is why me and my bike shop rocks because it doesn't stop and ofcourse pinkbike.com.
  • + 1
 Big news here imo is the 1cm more RD clearance.
  • + 1
 I thought sex robots were cool. Oh eem gee
  • + 1
 I just figured out how to turn on the new TV. I suspect this isn't for me.
  • + 1
 Id like a 7 speed short cage.
  • + 1
 1 word.... GEARBOX

Seriously, what are we waiting for?
  • + 1
 sram makes some nice cassettes
  • + 1
 I am NOT buying any of this. Bikes are already too expensive. NX for life
  • + 0
 Nothing I would ever buy .... Why would anyone other than a Moron want this?
  • + 1
 My $25.000 bicycle. Damn, what a money.
  • + 1
 Just gimme that multi color chain and I'll be happy
  • + 1
 That's cool and all, but I want those new graphics on a Lyrik!
  • + 1
 Is that a calibrated Timbit?
  • - 3
 Very cool and, as with anything that first comes out, expensive as all hell. I am guessing over the years, this will come down in price significantly.

That said, a derailleur cage at $2,000? Seems to be a relatively expensive proposition for something that can be damaged very easily. What would be cool is if the electronics could be pulled off and easily transferred to a "new", much less expensive derailleur if it has to be replaced (e.g., replacement minus the electronics costs $500).
  • + 4
 the entire drivetrain is $2k.
  • + 1
 @mobaar: Thanks for clarifying!
  • + 1
 That is a ridiculous price!
  • + 1
 Now, if only SRAM was capable of producing a functioning brake....
  • + 1
 Doesn't matter if the derralier explodes in 3 weeks
  • + 1
 In Soviet Russia Bike SHIFTS YOU!!!
  • + 1
 the weight comparison with the timbit made my day
  • - 3
 Love the technology of it BUT... I'd rather Sram make a system that isn't alway just out of tune! 10 years of Sram and Shimano and my Sram systems are always off, two weeks on then not quite right for the next month. Shimano has been bomb-proof for me. I'll take smooth shifter function over glitchy tech. Work it out Sram!
  • + 1
 Is the pike in the last image a new one?? Only graphics?
  • - 3
 I love when companies decide to write their own proprietary network code and encryption. First one to find the hard coded back door for shops to service the units wirelessly wins. This will fall down like a ton of bricks and be hacked and reverse engineered in the coming months.
  • + 4
 eTap road has been out for 4 years.
  • + 0
 Kudos on these videos. Really enjoy the explanation of the weird wheels and this one too!
  • + 1
 Hey Mike thanks for keep this shit real. I appreciate it.
  • + 0
 I want it. My bike wants it. But I can also buy/build a sturdy but light carbon XC rocket for just under $2k..
  • + 1
 20 hours battery? No thank you
  • + 4
 Is a 1-2 week battery supply not enough for you?
  • + 1
 @Randomacity: depends if you're an endurance racer doing 24 hour races I guess.
  • + 2
 @yzedf: True. I'd be psyched if SRAM included an extra battery pack since they look so easily interchangeable.
  • + 1
 @Randomacity: I doubt they will. Hopefully it’s the first thing they sell as in individual item.
  • + 3
 @yzedf: Its the same battery as 11speed etap. $36 and available everywhere.
  • + 1
 @mobaar: good to know. Did they fix the derailleur drift problem Red eTap has? That is the big question, given the abuse a mtb drivetrain experiences compared to road.
  • + 1
 It does just run out in 20hrs... Its 20hours of shifting.
  • + 1
 Out of interest, what brakes do the 'cables work fine' crowd run?
  • + 1
 What, no radio controlled brakes?
  • + 1
 Where’s the GX version? Lol
  • + 1
 Never going to buy - diamonds on the soles of your shoes -
  • + 1
 The price will eventually drop, so well done SRAM Wink
  • + 1
 I'm triggered by Levy abusing that derailleur.
  • + 1
 That looks like a sweet K5 in the background. More pix please
  • + 1
 This will be the next thing on E-Bikes, kind of perfect tech for it.
  • + 1
 I just want the chain for my... gearbox!
  • + 1
 Seriously though I'd like to see left-handed rear shifting...
  • + 1
 But we need hoseless brakes more! Big Grin
  • + 1
 My bike weighs 725 Tim Bits
  • + 1
 next up... electronic brakes
  • + 1
 Stop moaning you fuckers, one day hopefully this will be affordable.
  • + 1
 Imagine ripping that rear mech off on a rock, ouch
  • + 1
 Anyone know what stem that is on the Yeti?
  • + 1
 $2k and doesn’t even come with voice activation or finger recognition?
  • + 1
 Baiting hackers is a really bad idea. You just layed down a challenge.
  • + 1
 Only cables youll need will be every night while it sits at your desk
  • + 2
 That truck is awesome!
  • + 1
 So we're back to 12sp? 'll wait for 7sp to be released!
  • + 1
 Two thumbs up! Now the "BRAKE" cables- Or is SRAM on that too hmm.
  • + 1
 500
  • - 1
 I thought riding a MTB was to get ppl off their lazy asses and away from the Wireless BS and be physically mechanical. TF!
  • + 1
 Take my money!
  • + 1
 that chain...
  • - 1
 And, suddenly, mountain bike discover electronic shifting... which has been used for years on road bikes :'D
  • + 2
 MTB Di2, mid 2014. I have a feeling this article might be more about wireless?
  • + 1
 Mmmmm love the color!
  • - 1
 MATES WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!we are mountain bikers,we like cables!we dont need wireless tech sh***
  • + 1
 Nahhhh, no thx
  • + 0
 Damn, the cassette and chain a mega ugly.
  • + 0
 Is that a new Bronson color or some new bike (hightower, nomad 29er...)?
  • + 0
 Definitely a Bronson. In one of the photos, you can see Bronson spelled out on the left chainstay.
  • + 0
 It's the current primer grey color on the current Bronson.
  • + 0
 GX level please. I'd love to get rid of more cables on my bike.
  • + 0
 Can they work out how to make a clutch last more than one season now?
  • + 0
 Looks nice, but not going too pay that for gearing ever!
  • + 1
 I want the chain.
  • + 0
 Electric brakes in 2021. You heard it here first
  • - 1
 Best add-on since 1x drivetrains...ordered... can't wait! (1x12 xtr looking even more ugly now ????)
  • - 1
 Where's the real innovation - like a lightweight AND inexpensive 10-44 11 spd cassette?

Wireless be damned.
  • + 0
 finally, im going to go harass my lbs about preorder now
  • + 1
 wtf is a “tombit”?!
  • + 0
 My pals done 3 gx mechs in a year , fuck buying a cordless one
  • + 1
 About time!
  • + 1
 No thanks dude.
  • + 0
 saw the cool oil slick chain...... then i saw "dub" and almost threw up
  • + 0
 $2000go hope SRAM your Drunk
  • - 3
 Sram is low quality junk, I've had nothing but problems everytime I try sram anything, fork seal kept popping out because of stupid o ring, brakes are a total nightmare, cassettes wear out really fast!
  • + 0
 I'm holding out for wireless brakes
  • + 1
 Hmmmmm... gearbox
  • - 2
 Looks awesome, but there's no way in f*ck this costs anywhere near $2k to manufacture.
  • + 1
 No shit. Companies aren't in business to sell things at their manufacturing costs, which is just a fraction of their actual cost that includes development, management, building production facilities, sponsorships and so on.

The idea is to turn a profit after all of that is paid for after all.

The materials and assembly costs for a $50K truck are less than $15K. The rest is all those other costs, and of course profit.
  • - 1
 I am waiting for the twist shifter.
  • - 1
 LGBT chain and cassette. SRAM are so progressive
  • - 3
 I dont get it.
  • - 3
 Worth every penny.
  • - 1
 Freebird has landed
  • - 2
 Cables are about to be dead!
  • - 1
 26 ain’t dead...
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