Tech Briefing: Bikes, Colourful Components, New Shoes & More - April 2020

 It's because neither SRAM or Shimano have a gearbox option.

 @Davec85: i think i saw somewhere that Shimano is up to something with gearboxes.. i can't seem to remember where i saw it though.

 @wowbagger: There was an article mentioning a patent Shimano put in relating to a gear box I believe.

 Im surprised they havnt caught on despite coming and going over the years. Cant see the derailleur setup being developed too far beyond where it is now so gearboxes are the next logical step.

 Exactly. my next bike will be an e-bike with hydrogen battery, internal gearbox and belt drive, coming out in 2030...or never

 Yawn....

 Because the demand isn’t there.

Look at Deviate bike, the brought out an amazing gearbox bike, next bike is conventional gears.

I wonder why that was?

 @Richt2000: I don't think there is no demand. It is just not on the market... So we can't actually buy it ! Look how much they have been pushing 29ers and E-bikes. People were reluctant but it happened anyway.

 @ibex-rider: Do you have a gearbox bike?

 @Richt2000: the demand is not there cuse there's no major players and is not being pushed by the industry, people will want whatever they're told to want.

 @ismasan: it’s a two way street though. If no one buys the kit from smaller players, why would the big players get involved?

 too expensive still.

 Beacause $$
gearboxes are harder to break ... How much money do they make with XTR's and xx1's and so on ?
Money speaks louder than efficiency...

 @tomhoward379: big players often grab the idea of small ones and make it work thanks to more r&d, exposure and marketing. Also 'no one buy it' is not accurate, there's a few brands there and they have their public, with positive reviews (albeit the usual mention to drag)
Imagine Sram's marketing paving roller, a few 'impartial' reviews here and there and a gearbox with 28.99% less drag build in 10k Treks , people will die for it. Damn, they made people believe that the axs derailleur moving upon impact is a revolutionary feature XD

 Twist grip shifters... No trigger or wireless shifter, no sale!

 @Willis24: triggers are available for pinion gearboxes (and rohloff hubs). The effigear system uses a trigger.

As for bigger r&d budgets, fair enough, but it would have to take a massive leap of faith from traditionally very conservative manufacturers. Big bike brands have experimented with the idea on big money bikes, but it hasn’t taken off, partly because of cost, partly because of perceived issues with the tech. Also, the bike buying public are very fickle, look at the NAILD suspension bikes from polygon and Marin, the polygon is winning DH World Cup overall titles, but where do you see them outside of that? The marins are being sold off at 60% off, all because it looks weird, never mind if it’s any more or less efficient than the norm. People seem to be in love with the idea of gearboxes, but when push comes to shove, they go back to what they know.

 Because the shifting is clunky AF. It will catch on when the shifting is electronic and has an automatic clutch so it can shift smoothly. Ride one and you'll see what I mean.

 Noooooo...... it's because you have still have to make the decision and act upon that decision to change gears. This is Twentitties. Why should we change gears when we could just...fondle?

 Higher margin to sell conventional derailleur. Keep milking unless the cow is dried up.

 BIG DERRALIER created fake gearbox efficiency data stating that gearboxes have to much drag to eliminate gearbox companies mtb drivetrain market share. Sorry guys truth hurts

 No one is on a gearbox bike because there has been 0 marketing towards gearboxes as opposed to shiny oil slick cassetes

 I don't think they are light enough, efficient enough or cheap enough. But theres another reason.

You can buy a decent hard tail for $500 with a derailleur system. You can buy a pretty good Bossnut for $1400? with a derailleur system. Then of course you can waste money on AXIOS for your $11k Mondraker build. The derailleur technology can appear at every price point. With a gearbox, you're stuck in the top tier pricing only. Even if price comes down, no way $2000 and under bikes could have a gearbox on them. A larger company needs consistent technology across all its major offerings.

 @bigtim: I think that was e-bike specific to be incorporated into the motor

 100% is the future. And I won't buy a new bike until it has a gearbox

 @stumphumper92: there’s loads available, what are you getting?

 Lets just wait for the shimano gearbox. This thing is promising big things. Also, coming from shimano, it must work properly!

 @tomhoward379: waiting on Shimano's

 it's because of the noticeable drag and inefficiency (not to mention another "hub" inside that leads to even less instant engagement). I want gearboxes to take off, I love the concept, but having ridden them, they just aren't there yet. It feelsl like your bike is 7lbs heavier, and the points of engagement are a detriment to me. I dig the idea of a belt drive system though.

 Have you also seen this 11ants hardtail with gearbox: www.instagram.com/p/B9iw8wulRjl

I love the gearbox concept, I could adapt to way you have to shift gears, but the pricing...

 Because of Drag

 @stumphumper92: I’ll bet it will be attached to a motor. Also, that patent goes into a suspiciously high level of detail about some lubes and oils (fnar fnar) wouldn’t be surprised if the gearbox was just a cover for that. Or it will be decades away. Remember they have a had a 14speed derailleur setup patented since the 90’s. Enjoy your wait.

 My point being, everyone has a reason to not get one. Its always, ‘I’d have one but... It’s too expensive (about the same as XX1, cheaper than AXS or Di2), it’s gripshift (triggers are available), it drags (not once bedded in), it’s clunky (not once you get used to the shifting) , not enough POE (really not a big deal), it’s not Shimano (wtf...). No one is going to put the effort in if, every time it’s mentioned, folk stamp them down. Show the big guys there is a market by backing the smaller guys, then things will improve.

 @tomhoward379: XX1 is too expensive haha.

 @tomhoward379: depending on where you ride and how you ride, engagement is a big deal. its my #1 reason why it doesn't interest me.

 @hamncheez: still sells shit tons though despite not being the future, according to the comments section.

 The only people that want gearboxes are the ones that haven't tried them.

 @tomhoward379: The poe is a big deal, because it's compounded by the poe in the hub too. So if you have 6* in the pinion (for the sake of an example, I have no clue what it is), and 6* in the hub, you now have a 12* engagement. It definitely matters.

I've ridden a few pinions, and the one that felt the draggiest was over 6 months old with thousands of miles on it. I demoed it from zerode, who was keeping them maintained. It felt like my tires were full of water. I didn't feel it the first 3 miles, but after that everyone left me in the dust, including the people that I'm usually waiting for. It was an exhausting experience. It was too bad too, because I really wanted a zerode at the time.

 @hardtailparty: so use an instant (or close to it) engagement hub. I’m not saying there’s no drag in them, but ime it certainly lessens over time. If it was that bad, the touring community would have binned them off years ago, but they haven’t. While you do notice the fewer points of engagement, after a ride or two, you get used to it and adjust your riding accordingly, hence not a big deal. Seems like part of people’s problem with them is that they don’t ride like derailleur systems...

 @fishybob: just in time for the grim donut review

 shimano filed a patent for a gearbox recently because with e-bikes becoming more popular, the next innovation would be electronic auto-shifting. SRAM's new app where they look at AXS shifts and dropper position also supports this innovation. the data from SRAM's AXS app would then help programmers write software that would be able to predict when your drivetrain should shift. Once this tech is developed, gear boxes can be utilized in a practical manner since there is less manual shifting occurring. automatic transmission of MTB. you heard it here first.

 Because they went straight to focusing on adding motors.

 Thanks, just found the EZ kit on eBay for £12

 @picariello81: you & others 're welcome. )

p.s. been using EZ kit for 6 years (shimano, avid, sram, tektro, hayes)! Often! Still like new and working flawlessly!

 @cedrico: and? What's your point?..

 @ka81: If you buy cheap Chinese tools, they will probably not last as long or work as well as quality Parktool tools. In the past, I've gone the route of cheap Chinese tools and quality Parktool tools, and given my experience with both, I regret buying the cheap Chinese tools but I don't regret buying the Parktool tools.

 @cedrico: epicbleedsolutions.com/

I've bought a kit from these guys previously and been very happy with the results. It's my view that if you clean them thoroughly after each use then it alleviates the issue of the seals swelling whilst in storage. I've previously owned the SRAM kit for bleeding my Reverb seat post, I left the oil in one of the syringes and it destroyed the seals.

The Park Tools stuff is very nice, I own a few of their bits and pieces but like most tooling companies (insert your favourite brand here, Snap On, MAC etc) I believe there's a price you pay for the name too.

 No doubt Park is really good, but there are options. The bleed kit is actually pretty sweet, and 10 times better that the other (not SRAM, but almost as much) kit I have. You don't always get what you pay for, and that works two ways, if I pay premium, I expect premium, which doesn't always happen.

 @cedrico: do you even read??..
6 long years of hard using - like new and bleeding is perfect every time!
Got a lot of parktool's tools, birzman's, unior's, cyclus tools's,... So, plz, leave your wet fantasies with you.

 By the way, I'm one of those rare owners of www.parktool.com/product/wheel-holder-wh-1 ad I had to customize it by myself cause it sucks in stock version! 100$ for primitive holder and sucks!! Nice!

 @ka81: You are one data point.

 @ka81: typical of Park to mess something up on the first go-round. Look at their "pad pusher". It was too thick, wouldn't fit into smaller calipers, mechanics were taking brand new tools and grinding them down. One year or so later, their v1.2 comes out, done better.
Don't get me started on their crap-tastic scissors

 @cedrico: Fill yer boots, it's your choice. $258 to have a kit for the SRAM and Shimano, vs my $12 universal (excellent!) set. I'm good with my choice.

 @ka81 @fodermonk: The reviews are good on aliexpress so there's lots more data points actually. And when you put the prices side by side, you have a point. Maybe you don't get what you pay for in this case of the Parktool bleed kits.

 @cedrico: Isn't Park Tool "Chinese stuff" too? I've got some of their tools but I don't know if any of it is not China made.

Either way, I don't see the point of getting a universal disc brake bleed kit. Unless you've got loads of different bikes (yet all using the same type of oil) I'd say just get a specific bleed kit for every brand. Doesn't have to be the original brand, the stuff from epicbleedsolutions seems nice. Yet I'm still using this same old 2002 "mini service kit" from Magura for my Magura brakes and it just still works. If a syringe snaps (as the plastic ages), just get a new one from the pharmacy. If you need a new hose, get one from the hardware store.

 @vinay: I emailed them about this and was told that 75-80% of Parktool products are made at their factory in Minnesota, USA.

 @cedrico: Alright, yeah my cone spanner is made in the USA according to the laser etching. Not sure if it is any better than the other ones I have from different brands. I had the PCS10 Park workstand which was made in China. I thought the adjustability was nice. Turned out it just means there is more to move in unwanted directions. And if you attach their worktray it jams against the pedal. I eventually gave it to my neighbour when he got into mountainbiking and went back to my old Tacx Cyclestand. No adjustability whatsoever (or actually two orientations for the bike) and the arms to keep the front wheel straight are so short it is a laugh (so I stick with the nose down orientation as that keeps the front straight too) but at least the bike stays put. Designed and made in Wassenaar, The Netherlands. Like all their stuff. But that doesn't mean it is all quality. I hate the Tacx chain breaker and I am happy with the portable one from Park.

So yeah US made stuff from Park may be nice but so goes for other stuff from other countries. No doubt including Chinese made stuff. There is good and poor quality made stuff everywhere. At the end of the day I choose the components I can get spares for.

 @vinay: Like most in cycling, Park Tool is an great company - good people trying their best to be competitive and manufacture in Minnesota. Of course not everything is perfect, and there will always be 'Gierig' saying "my Chinese $5 kit is just as good", but you'll never see these extremely cheap products in daily commercial use.

 @SvenNorske: Yeah, just saying that there is good and bad stuff, expensive and cheap coming from all over the world. Obviously the cone spanner was fine, got their spoke tensiometer and trust it too. The workstand was a massive disappointment. Lots of adjustability yet the telescoping part of the assembly can't be tiight enough to keep the two pieces from rotating with respect to each other whereas the way the lower legs fold up just sticks too much and doesn't quite operate the way it does in the video. Not living in the US myself, the company being in Minnesota doesn't hold much value to me. I bought my Tacx workstand in the bikeshop I was working at the time as a student, about ten kilometers from where I lived. Which was another ten kilometers from the Tacx factory/office/distribution center which we were dealing with directly. I thought they were competitive too as the workstand wasn't particularly expensive. In turn of course it had little adjustability but the position it does go in is actually stable. I think it is cool that they do pretty much everything in house, including the machining of their own injection molds.

So yeah, not necessarily everything that is affordable consumer grade stuff comes from China. And not everything that comes from China is affordable consumer grade stuff either. Tacx is from The Netherlands, Polisport is from Portugal. Magura eventually built a big plant in Taiwan for production of some metal parts and final assembly for the Pacific market, but they actually moved production of plastic parts (which has become an increasingly larger part of their brakes) out of their cramped plant in Bad Urach just a few km down to road in Ulm and I'd argue they can offer brakes at a pricepoint that's competitive against the Asian brands.

At the end of the day though, what matters is that the stuff performs at least half decent. For me the Tacx workstand does and the Park Tool one didn't. On the other hand the Park Tool chain breaker has served me well for years whereas no Tacx chain breaker properly served me once (which is unacceptable for trailside repairs). I value buying local but for me that's Europe. US is nice and I perceive the worker and environmental regulations there may be better than those in China though it would be tricky to make a blanket statement like that. And obviously there is much Asian production outside China too and for me US production doesn't hold any more value for me than high tech Taiwanese or Japanese production.

As far as epic bleed solutions goes, don't they just assemble bleed kits from UK parts? I'm pretty sure they assemble these kits themselves and the parts are made mostly using automated processes so there is no point going for "far away cheap labour".

 @cedrico: Parktools are way overpriced here. A complete box for a mechanic (that may need something else for suspension too) is 50 thousand reais (albeit, 6 grand) I've got a lot of quality tools to do everything on my bike for less than 200 bucks (some 600 reais). Yeah, can get cheaper quality tools instead of overpriced tools.

 Eh I have a pair of the lites and I think they are great. They do fit a little different but you definitely get used to it, and imo the lighter weight and slightly less baggyness is perfect.

 It basically looks like an engagement reducer? Probably won't be long before I see one with i9 wheels hanging off the back of a $60k pickup.

 @jason475 what didn't you like about them? I have been seriously considering them for my next grips.

 I used to be into Ergon GE1 until I found the ODI Troy Lee Design grips. I have them on two bikes and about to be three.

 www.instagram.com/p/B8ha4XmH5yE/?igshid=unozxojktq5p

 If you can't find any info, they're almost guaranteed not made in the US, otherwise they would advertise it. As they also aren't an european company, eastern Europe doesn't make any sense either, so I would be surprized if it wasn't China or Taiwan.

 @NickBosshard: thats what my assumption was.

 You're paying for the lifetime warranty on the hoops, not necessarily the product itself.

 Two things really, the first is that you need a split stay to get the belt on/off which can effect stiffness, and second, speaking for old gates drive systems, when they get mud/dirt on them they tended to drop the belt or damage it.

 Well ,I'd like a cotic again.