The Privateer Episode 2: Testing Begins & It’s Time to Train Like a Pro

 James Wilson, Dee Tidwell, Lee MCormack, Dane Delozier, Ryan Hughes.

Or mix thenx.com with Mark Rippetoe.

Mobility > Stability > Strength > Power

 ditto

 @WAKIdesigns: which would you recommend for a novice rider with decent gym experience?

 @WAKIdesigns: I would start with Health >. And avoid any specialization if I'm not riding for a living.

 @danielmessem: I think the important thing is to see how a program looks like. Just get an idea. James Wilsons UMTBW is good. Lee McCormack with his “Pump up the base” had lots of focus on cardio side of things. But if you have decent gym experience it’s hard for me to say. You should be good I mean I assume you have at least 1xBW/ 1.5xBW/ 2xBW on BEnch/ Squat/ Deadlift. If so you just need to get lots of plyo and sprints/ intervals depending on what you want to achieve. I don’t know about those balance skills on most videos, I think it works mainly for strenghtening ligaments for durability of your body. Although some claim you can do it by doing negative reps with lots of weight. One thing is sure, explosiveness + intervals translate well into endurance, volume doesn’t translate into power. The trade off is that strength training and plyo wears out quickly, you can lose 6 months of progress if you bum out or even just crank 3 months without gym. Endurance training lasts longer. Which may be attractive if you are into most steady pace olympics

 Keep note of the gifts that you were born with and cater to them. I'm better at endurance than sprinting. After a decade of gym work I was lucky to put on two kilos. @Janosch hints at this when saying 'avoid specialization if not riding for a living".

If you are already in decent shape, I'd say honing your skills will give you more seconds off your race time than training harder. And taking up dirt jumping, BMX racing, and/or trials will do you the world of good if you've only ever been a trail rider.

 @iamamodel: yes, about your last paragraph: one thing is power and endurance, another is efficiency. Skill gives efficiency. Efficiency is the use of power and fitness. That is why Adam here was able to be fkng fast while being in worse shape than I am. Georges St Pierre was talking about it extensively on Joe Rogan. Strength is your horse power, cardio is size of your tank, skill is miles per gallon.

 @iamamodel: from what I've seen you also have phenomenal explosive power. In a roadie sense, you'd probably make a good puncher.

@danielmessem from my experience, if you've got decent gym experience and are a novice rider, try some exercises that isolate each leg/side. Split squats, lunges, one-legged deadlifts, aim for lots of reps (mainly for muscle endurance). Work on explosiveness with lunge jumps (go into a lunge position and jump, swapping legs). Box jumps too, plyometric stuff.

This will mimic riding a lot better than things like squats and conventional deadlifts, as well as work on many more stabilising muscles that will help on the bike,

 I ride on weekends, and gym during the week. Thinking gym 3 times a week, weights and 30min intervals on the bike. Is this on the right track?
Any nice resources anyone can point me to? (Will check out Lee McCormack)

 @danielmessem it’s going to be hard for you to get much better without biking more. It’s about bike specific cardio (can be theoretically done on spinning bike) but skill will suffer a lot if only from the fact that your neurologic system will be understimulated for moving over the bije and grnerating the right movement patterns. This can be aleviated with skill drills. Sometimes 2x 30min skill sessions a week can do wonders. How’s your skill bag? Bunnyhops, manuals, jumping, cornering?

The good news is: if you have decent physique it’s like a chunkof good clay that can be formed to almost anything. Most people start with nothing or worse, with a bag of bad habits to unlearn. This is why it is very easy to transform a BMXer in to a good MTBer but very hard to make a roadie or CXC dude into one.

 @WAKIdesigns: not too bad, endurance and climbing are the weak points

 @danielmessem: then check out Lee McCormack. He's an approachable man and knows his stuff since he worked with at least 2 coaches I mentioned above. he likes Watts

 @WAKIdesigns: thanks will definitely check him out. And thanks for all the help everyone.
Reading through Joe Friel's Mountain Bikers training bible at the moment

 @danielmessem: just be careful with roadie stuff if you want to improve your singletrack technical climbing. Sitting on your bum and cranking up even a steep fireroad is a totally different story than yanking through a rock garden. On the former you have all the time in the world the get into first world problems of cadence, pedal stroke patterns and gear ratios, on the latter you better show up with some low RPM power, modulation and trials skills. While doing a tech climb just can’t sit on your bum spin circles and make weird turns around every rock, you have to be prepared to get on top of things. That takes lower gear, high power output and skill.

 @WAKIdesigns: Have you tried all these programs? I've got James Wilson for strength and RLC for everything else.

@iamamodel Naturally I've got good endurance too but it is the element I care least about. People told me I could run a marathon in less than three hours if I prepared a little, but I don't want to wear myself out through overuse like that. Plus it seems less fun. I'd rather work on all the other stuff and it will help my endurance too.

 @vinay: I did James Wilson, Rhyno gym, Thenx and Dane Delozier from Revo. A good thing about checking a few programs and sticking to them for some time is that you start seeing patterns. For me workout is a cool thing on it’s own. MTB is the main motivation for this but it’s just a good lifestyle. It benefits everything, posture, mood, self confidence, injury prevention, everything. At least as long as one is willing to educate him/herself and doesn’t take too big steps ahead of the form because it’s a real shame to hurt yourself on the gym.

 @WAKIdesigns: Personally I just don't like shopping. I just get something from someone I trust and go with it unless I really really don't like it. I do love James' pedals and he got me some of his programs. Didn't see a need to switch. At the end of the day I'm better off sticking to a program than wondering every day "should I do this exercise, pick the other one or browse the internet for something new". I do have something from Lee McCormack, but that's only about the pumptrack .

 @pretzelgirl: don't forget to add in the glute ham raise bench.. This alone aided in my deads and sprint power for intervals.. Also aids in strengthening those ligaments in behind the knee like the pcl..

 @bohns1: erm... how can glute ham raise bench add sprint power? I mean how can these two things be discussed together? It's like saying bench press can improve your bunnyhops. GHRB is totally, 100%, definitely beneficial for deadlifts which then may be beneficial for sprint power but what deadlifts? And do you follow it with plyo, power lifts and sprints to utilize the strength you built with deadlifts considering we talk about high load, low rep? Because high rep low load doesn't necessarily require additional conditioning with GHRB. But then we can talk about developing upper core to aid squatting which also benefits deadlifting (like my legs can easily push 130-140kg now, but my back starts to bend so effectively there is no point for me to go over 105kg) I just mean, that was quite indirect. One thing is sure, possibly the best thing for sprints is sprint ladders. Most of us fail both at maintaining the high power output (like for longer than a minute), and at maxing momentary output per stroke. Average Joe is a master of even pace. If you can generate speed quickly and maintain it for short period of time, you'll save plenty of energy by generating momentum big enough to flow through trail (allowing you to clear obstacles by jumping from one over another or more) instead of ramming into every single shit on it and pedaling again and again to regain speed.

 @WAKIdesigns: Amen

 @WAKIdesigns: dude your reading too far Into it.. Ermm it's called its adding to the things that aid in strength and injury prevention.. Thus when coupled with actual sprint intervals the gains are hugely noticeable... You need to do it all for it all to come together... I'm not going to get Into another semantics pissing contest with ya brah over scientific studies and bull shit.. I do what I do.. I do what works..

 @bohns1: i was just curious why you chose this particular exercise since as you mention yourself everything matters especially since it helps bunnyhops and manuals in a lot more obvious way than sprinting. You know I respect you

 @danielmessem: You are on the right track.
Its what you do at the gym that counts.

I used to ride loads, but find more benefit from mostly gym and riding for sharpness and some confidence/technique stuff. I have a new family so time is at a premium.

I do no deadlifts, no squats, I do do step up's onto an old tree stump with 1 leg ensuring I am weighting through my heel to instep rather than toes, walk 15000 or more steps a day, mostly at a brisk pace, play up to 5 hours badminton a week.
Muscle memory from the gym and reaction balance training is better than heavy weights for legs. Look at how Nino trains, some great combination exercises there.

1st thing on a bike is balance, far easier to come from the gym than on the bike using combination exercises.
balance also comes from hip mobility... do tricep dips with one leg on the ground, the other as high as you can get it with the toe forced towards you hard. (this is covered in the video). Pressups with 1 leg up as high as you can get it, activates the gluts and hip mobility as well as core stability.

2nd thing on the bike is chest and shoulder or tricep strength, depending on how you ride. You cant attack a corner without a strong upper body. Bench press with wide grip, flies, lat pulldowns, seated rows, bent over shoulder flies etc. great one is using a balance board and a kettle bell, shoulder extension from the ground (think starting a lawn mower motion), picking up the kettle bell with the opposite hand. The better you get the higher the platform and slightly heavier weight. Forces hip mobility, core stability, correct hip position (sliding hips back rather than dropping down as dropping straight down will mean you weight your toes and loose balance).

Cardio... you can be super fit but if you are doing things wrong due to poor stability you will just tire very quickly and get frustrated and being dropped through corners and technical sections then have to pedal to catch back up. Far better to be fit, and have great core stability, muscle memory etc. be able to pump every back side because your brain to limb communications are on point

Just my thoughts, worked for me last year and seems to be doing well this year, just staring on the big bike, 6 weeks before world masters, but still mostly at the gym, up to 2 times a day with a short fasting workout of the same 3 key exercises every morning, 2 sets of 10 reps of Bench, lat pull down and seated rows. Evening workouts more targeted and balance work twice to 3 times a week. 2 turbo sessions a week targeting sprint and recovery, using some old school rave and when the bass drops you match it, when its not there you ride at 75% effort or something that is sustainable for well over 1 hour. 1 session is 1hr, the 2nd one up to 1hr or as long as your mind/body can hold out! 2 badminton sessions, 2 hours each, love this game and its a free lunges workout.

 @WAKIdesigns: I find it attributes aiding in my sprint due to the fact that I'm pulling up with the opposing leg on the pedal stroke..I should've said it helps with being explosive on the sprint.. Its just another tool in the excercise shed I like to utalize as it hits me more in the lower part of the hamstring behind the knee vs romanian deads or lying one legged leg curls.. Also noticed I don't pull hams nearly as much since I started to incorporate them...

Yes, they help bunnies and manuals exponentially! ???? ???? Too!

 @betsie: For the record Nino squats and does incorporate heavier days under the rack.. People that don't squat or do Bulgarians and deads are doing a huge disservice to themselves by not incorporating these staples.

 @betsie

Deadlifts done properly build a strong core. Directly and indirectly. There is no heavy deadlifting or squatting without strong upper core. Like I said above, it is irrelevant if my legs can push 140kg upwards on the deep squat, because my back starts arching forward on the second rep of 120. The third rep is a disaster. Legs still can, back can’t. Same with deadlift, I can do 150 which is 2x my body weight, but on second rep my spine starts arching and my hands start losing grip on th bar. A fool will then pick up the belt and wrist straps. Smart person will do more GHRB, work his scapulas even more, squat more and work on his grip in several ways. Maybe weighted hip lifts, but those are taxing on the lumbar spine. Maybe other tyles of deadift can work well too. Also nothing builds MTB strength as well as deadlift, which can be then converted to power with plyo and sprints. All that with minimal increase of muscle mass compared to high rep exercises. Finally lifting heavy activates your Central Nervous System which among other things lowers cortisol levels, and more importantly, especially for dudes above 40, triggers production of testosterone. One could add that heavy compound movements and sprints if done hard enough (in a smart way) will also demoilsh depression since those will trigger adrenaline response and your brain will realize that there’s more to life than particular cadence or carbon cranks, it will simply know the difference between Holy sht! something’s really going on here and first world problems. Deadlift is one of th best bang for the time buck one can get

If you have no barbell around do pistol squats and bulgarian squats. Beef cake!

 @WAKIdesigns: I have had 1 anthroscopy on my right knee for a bucket tare and a hernia when younger from squats. I introduced dead lift into my routine for 2 months and tracked my times with gorpo. It amazed me how I was all of a sudden nearly 5% slower down my local hills. So I removed it and the times came back to where they were. The human body is interesting and everyone is differect. It's about finding what works for you and sticking with it. I weigh the same as you and can deadlift 150 also. It just doesn't work for me. Maybe the old injuries (knee was football and I can't even play the game) are catching up with me. Lol I pyramid most weeks and lift heavy on a 1 of 6 week rotation. Excluding badminton twice a week I am currently training 5 mornings and 4 evenings a week with no burn out. 2 cardiovascular session and 3 gym workouts during the week. It's amazing what you can lift in a deadlift without doing deadlift if you replace it with more dynamic exercises. Grip strength is always going to be a slight issue for me. I have broken my hands 6 times, different bones. Rolondo fracture being the worst. I should just fit stabilisers.

 @betsie: but we were speaking generally, your injuries obviously play a role here. And off course if you do such load of training you may not need to deadlift, however knowing what pros of different disciplines of MTB do, you work out more than they do. For someone like me with max 3 gym sessions a week, max 3 rides a week, deadlift is the best bang for my time buck.

 @WAKIdesigns: The pro's work out much more than I do, thats for sure. But at 43 I have to train, I dont have the natural wild side to go fast and have to rely on technique and training. 3 rides a week... I am on about 3 rides a month normally. We have 5 kids between us, a dog and cat, the youngest child 6 weeks old (she is amazing), the eldest 13, a full time job and commute 1 hour each way to work! Luckily my partner is into spin and body pump so understands training, my sessions don't last long, its about impact and not duration these days.

 @betsie: you'd be surprised, they ride so much that gym is a cherry on the pie for them. I bet most of them put between 20-30h a week on different bikes. So 1-2h on the gym 3 times a week is pffff. If you have so many kids you can throw away any regeneration philosophies to the garbage. When I read some article and they talk of importance of sleep patterns I want to punch the author in the face. I have 2 kids, it's more than enough for me. I barely manage them and my wife.

 @WAKIdesigns: I remember a couple of the current WC juniors getting the program of their elite rider and thinking the gym work schedule was nuts, let alone the biking. I also remember some of the current elites not getting their Dh bike until a couple of weeks before the first world cup and only having a road and trail bike, mental that this happens at that level. We don't really have any uplift up here and its a pretty small community so to have a few WC juniors and a few Elites in WC finals is awesome as well as some who have done EWS.

Having kids is a joy, I had 1 2 years ago!, add a divorce, new partner, her previous kids and 1 of our own and we have 5. They get on so well and being 13, 13, 11 and 7, most of them pretty much take care of themselves. It does mean I ride much less than when it was just me and my son and don't spend weekends camping and in the mountains but its a different kind of fun these days.

 @WAKIdesigns: just read pump the base, exactly what I was looking for around fitness. Now to add in some more specific moves into the gym routine, check that everything is good mobility wise, and ride harder and harder

 @betsie: 5 kids.. Holy shit balls! I'm still struggling to see where I could fit one into my life! Then again iam a bit selfish with my time.

 @WAKIdesigns: I barely manage me! ????

 @danielmessem: it also depends what sort of terrain you ride in. If your on bike cardio consists mostly of cimbing fireroads, even steep ones, you will need to work on sprints and intervals to observe gains on the trail. But if your terrain is like mine, with lots of tech steeps where each climb puts me into higher pulse zones, it won't matter that much. It takes me no more than 2 months in spring to get prime cardio. Few rides with stronger friends and the body goes from zero to hero. Also different bodies respond differently to endurance or sprints. I am a interval/ sprint type, volume training does almost nothing for me.

 I don't really have much else to compare it to, but I started to do Ironman triathlons, and can really recommend Dom Finks's Iron Fit program (do the competitive one). Its tough and long hours, but the 6 months completely transformed my cardio performance, in MTB, running, road TT and triathlon events. I went from coming in the last few places in local events to podium finishes. I'm still not great, but it massively boosted my stamina and CV thresholds, not least my tolerance for pain when pushing it on the runs.

 @WAKIdesigns: been on 'pump the base' for a few weeks now and really starting to notice a difference in fitness

 excellent, Lee knows his stuff! I’d really love to get his riprow rig.

 This was exactly what I was thinking when he said that.

 My girlfriend used to be into karate and was baffled to find out how short my hamstrings were. She got a yoga teacher training last year and gave me some lessons, but some poses like downward facing dog weren't really happening. More like a plank with my arms stretched out. Pretty tough plank to hold. Back in the days I really tried to stretch them, but it helped next to nothing. Today I dropped by my physio (for a soccer-related injury) and she helped me with some dynamic stretching. Results were impressive, better than I've had in years of static stretching. So yeah, just like with Adam here, there is still hope. Just find someone to help you on your way.

 I've had a physiotherapist make the same comment towards me lol

 @vinay do Romanian deadlifts - they will stretch your hamstrings better than th most focused Yoga lessons

 @WAKIdesigns: Turkish get up, Bulgarian and Romanian deadlifts, there sure must be some Russian and Spartan stuff in there. We can thank our Eastern European friends for their contribution to our fitness . Nothing Polish in there? Either way, I'll look into it. I think James Wilson also had some exercises to stretch the hamstrings though I'm horrible at extracting information from video material. I'll look into those Romanian deadlifts though I'm currently out with a nagging knee injury. Kind of silly. Was a spontaneous game of soccer and I happened to be on 5.10 impact. Great grip and stable on rocks, horrible grip on grass. So I kept sliding out and eventually that knee has had too much. My physio is ok with me riding bikes (except for the BMX) but not with deadlifting just yet. I will look into these when she says I'm ready for it.

 @vinay: Romanian deadlift is done with straight legs

 @WAKIdesigns: I f*cking love Romanian deads dude... Such a great stretch!

 @bohns1: I don't know how it works but I learned it from Caliesthenics that whatever is your exercise in focus, doing variations of it benefits it, even if you take a break from that exercise. So Romanians, Sumo, single leg deadlifts they work great. Then weighted bulgarians are just amazing for pedaling. Adjust weight for 3-5 rep range and then do single leg box jumps. Boom! The thing I learned about plyo though... just like deadlifts, it's an art on it's own. Stupid box jump or kettlebell snatches or lunges with dumb bells are not so stupid once you get into it. Which makes me think of all poor fkrs doing crossfit with focus on reps in time...

 @WAKIdesigns: Ya I've been Dou g Bulgarians for awhile now.. I actually been doing super sets lately to lessen time in gym... Or like a circuit if u will.. Squats/box jumps/weighted Bulgarians /drop weights and finish with body weight Bulgarians... Same results in way less time plus extra calorie burnage!

Or romanian deads /ghr hamraise bench/one legged deads.

 @bohns1: I read somewhere that drop sets are the fastest way to get strength and then some power with it, but they are not the most efficient in terms of muscle mass to strength ratio which may be important for cyclists and runners. They claimed there's too much hypertrophy at least for later part of the season.

Did you notice gaining lots of mass after doing drop sets?

 @WAKIdesigns: I'm doing supers not drops.. Although I do sometimes do drops.. I don't really gain mass it seems probably do to my caloric burn from daily commuting to my job.. 22k each way 3-4 days a week.. Despite eating a ton of clean food.. What I do notice is the muscle gets harder and more dense strength goes up considerably... I don't do this every work out but when I'm pushed for time and just want to be efficient and get it done..

I got craft beer to drink as well so I can't be wasting all my time training! Lol

 @bohns1: I meant muscle mass. Some people bulk up quicker than they get strong. I know a two studs whom you'd never tell can lift 200kg+ and see pumped brick heads who can barely do 10 pull ups.

 @WAKIdesigns: Ya that's more me.. I'm tall super small boned and lanky AF.. Never really look like I gain size.. Just get more solid, toned and strong.. Ya I know bloated blokes who look jacked but aren't that strong or agile.. Then again they don't give a f*ck.. Their all about the beach look.. Ha

 @bohns1: I saw a super bloated bloke on outdoor gym few weeks ago, he couldn’t do sht. Sucked at pull ups, sucked at dips and his push ups were pathetic. But then dude like that takes 100lbs dumbbells and pounds rep after rep. On the opposite side there is a bloke at my gym who snatches 60kg bar and looks like iron man competitor. Fk him... my first interaction with him was at thentime i could do 10 dips and he could do 15 with 60lbs on weight belt. Deadlifts 350lbs, squats 300, benches at least 250 all on 3-5reps. You could put a bunch of hottest girls doing squats in there I’d still b looking at him hahha

 @WAKIdesigns: f*ck him but can he Perform a mean front hack free weight squat! Ha

 @WAKIdesigns: It's like during welness testing at my fire dept.. The guys pounding out all the reps with strength are like the midgets.. Pull up king does 37 ups wide grip.. But understand he's 5 feet 7inch..Im 6 foot 3 plus.. Force x lever length always plays a role... So i don't pay much attention to these feets of strength and reps anymore by others.. Body types vary so greatly that really at the end of the day, I'm only in this for myself anyways!

 i thought "this guy shreds like a pro how can he get bad scores"

 @baraydatunca: He is fast, but lacks the fitness and endurance of an elite pro.

 @headshot: Isn't that this guy?

 @captainspaulding: Nah, Adam is a proper rapid rider, despite what the coach makes it sound like at the start.

 @GrandMasterOrge: Yes, with a few podiums in his past according to the intro video.

 @GrandMasterOrge: Gotcha, I honestly totally forgot what happened in the first episode. It looked like he was reasonably quick in the videos..

 They've definitely chosen somebody who is going to make for a good series and show a lot of improvement. The guy clearly already has the skill and the talent to be properly fast. By giving him the elite coaching and bringing up his strength and mobility it's going to allow him to express the skill and talent he already had.

 Good luck!

 @RONDAL Maybe if Segan hadn't just ridden 220km at race pro road pace on the 5th day of racing in the Tour De Suisse when he posted the numbers you have cited he would have been able to produce a few more watts. Also it was 2022 not 2200...

 Don’t know anything about stages power meters and can’t vouch for them one way or another, but using even an inaccurate power meter for training is better than none at all, because it’s always relative to itself and will do the job of showing one where they are compared to their established thresholds.

Also, take into consideration that these guys are also not built like pro road cyclists and because of increased mass and overall muscle mass they may very well have better peak power #s, comparitively. The roadies, on the other hand, are very powerful when considering w/kg and have incredible stamina, but lower on peak power than a track sprinter or similar. I can put out fairly big short term power numbers, even at 42, being 6’2” and 230lb and a former BMX nationals winner, but when paired against my weight and stamina they’re absolutely terrible compared to road cyclists’ #s when it comes to w/kg as my my FTP is only like 325w which works out a hair over 3w/kg, which is super pedestrian, of course my stamina and cardio is nowhere near the same class. Put me on any kind off-road sprint track that requires bike handling skills though... It’s all horses for courses.

 A fair amount of people can produce that kind of power for 3s. However, very, very few can sprint with those kind of numbers after 200+km, especially when the last 50km where spent wound out at 50kph+.

 @WhatAboutBob: precisely

 I really have to read into how these Stages meters work and how it makes sense before I can completely support or slay it. But as far as I understand it (it measures the deformation of the crank) it seems to me there are so many variables involved.

1. It may measure how hard you're pushing down on one crank, but does it also substract how much you're unloading the other side? If you're pushing down on both sides, it will deduct from the torque pumped into the cranks. Basically how efficiently you pedal.

2. When sprinting, you tilt the bike and don't entirely push in plane with the chainring. How does this axial force component affect the measurement?

3. Most cranks wear a lot due to heel rub etc. He's probably doing his baseline tests on fresh cranks. Later this season his cranks are probably slightly worn hence slightly less stiff. Not sure how much it matters but then again not sure what margins he's looking at too. Or do Stages owners regularly have their cranks recalibrated? Shouldn't be too hard to do and much cheaper than new (Stages equipped) cranks.

4. As @catfish9797 mentioned, the absolute number may not matter too much as you should look at it in relation to itself. Which makes absolute sense. But then what's the point of getting the road bike out instead of the bike he's using for racing? I get that a road bike is probably a good choice for that type of racing but if it is just something on the side, I'd say do the same test on a predictable (road) surface but just on your mountainbike with the same Stages equipped cranks.

 @remrem: How about comparing it to elite track cyclists? They put out around 2000w at peak power. Unless Remi is simply a freak of nature, I think something is up with the power meters considering Adam supposedly has terrible peak power according to his tests.
www.researchgate.net/publication/224817006_Power_output_demands_of_elite_track_sprint_cycling

 it also sheds light on how much work pro's put in when they're not in front of the camera. really hope this reduces the amount of "these guys have it so easy with the free bikes" comments.

 @cuban-b: yup too true. I tried a full on gym based programme over winter and it was too much so had to back off. You see these days that the support goes way beyond coaching, it includes physio, massage, nutrition and a bit of Jedi practice.

 found it : performxracing.com/WEB/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/PerformX-2017-Base-MTB-Training.pdf

For other packages, check their website. Not bad, if i was close I'd go for it.

 @mrkamot: Definitely worth it if one has never been through such a program before for education/experience alone.