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THE TROLL SYMBIOSIS:
ARE TROLLS ERODING OUR CULTURE?



The first time I wrote an article for the Internet I was called a slut and a whore in the comments section. The topic of the article? Mountain Bike culture. It didn’t bother me, as baseless bullying directed at me on the Internet does not bother me to this day. (To clarify, in grade school I had braces, wore gumboots to school, and had a pet duck that lived in my bathtub. I was intrinsically raised to not give a f*ck about what other people think.) But that’s me, it is not everyone – and it shouldn’t have to be everyone.

It was not the last time that negative comments designed to elicit humiliation and shame would be attached to my articles, but I remain a fan of a format that allows readers to comment. It is a place where people can share ideas and information, post entertaining, witty banter, and connect in a supportive and positive way within our international community. One of the unfortunate side effects, however, in having a worldwide audience in today’s culture, is that it also gives a platform for those suffering from feelings of entitlement and inferiority to vent their hateful rhetoric.

To define trolling is a challenge. While cyber-bullying has become a plague, there is a vast grey area somewhere between the right to express opposing opinions and exercise free speech, and the unrelenting abuse that has on occasion driven people to suicide. Somewhere amidst this are the random and callous personal attacks, the derailing of conversations, contradicting purely for conflict, and offensive and nonsensical provocations all meant expressly to insult and provoke a host of negative feelings and reactions in others. These are trolls that live below the threshold and their comments are never helpful, witty, or intelligent. They are abhorrently cavalier in the delivery of their insults, displaying a cowardice made possible through the protection of the Internet and the seclusion of one’s own home.

In Norse mythology trolls are described as cave dwellers who exist in isolation and are unhelpful to humans. This seems rather appropriate when applied to the abusive and antisocial behaviour these commenters display online. But a 2014 study published in the journal of Personality and Individual Difference linked the personality traits of internet trolls to the Dark Triad of Machiavellianism (a manipulative attitude), narcissism (excessive self-love), and psychopathy (lack of empathy). Researchers concluded that cyber-trolling is an Internet manifestation of everyday sadism – a behaviour displayed in an average person who not only lacks empathy but also enjoys inflicting harm on others. It has also been posited that the anonymity of the internet, or at least the lack of personal presence and ability to read the emotions of another human being, brings this behaviour out in people. In other words, these internet trolls do not always exhibit these dangerous characteristics in other areas of their lives. Given this information and connection to a much darker psychology, the fairy-tale term for the gruff but lovable grump living under a bridge feels like a euphemism that falls a little short.
Created by WAKIdesigns
What is curious is that we have unwittingly created a symbiotic relationship with these commenters. As a community we often feed the trolls, getting sucked into a debate with someone whose sole purpose is to upset us. We scroll through articles and click below threshold comments, often before anything else, allowing those small and mean-spirited voices to become the content rather than the article itself. The drama can be entertaining and over time, we have accepted this as commonplace in our online community. But should we? We have gone so far as to adopt a ‘harden up’ attitude towards those attacked and through our apathy, we have lost our empathy, the effect of which is the slow erosion of quality content - writing, photographs, video, etc. - in our mountain bike culture.

As a writer I nurture relationships with the athletes and personalities I interview. An essential part of this process is the building of trust and often friendship that allows for a candid and valuable story to be shared. There seems to be an unspoken consensus in our community, however, that if you are willing to make yourself vulnerable for the benefit and entertainment of others, then you either deserve or at least should expect to be attacked. With comments like ‘spoiled brat, boycott his sponsors’, ‘get her ugly face off my newsfeed’, ‘please cut that hair you look gay’, ‘cry baby lil’ bitch’, and ‘[he] looks like a big fat pig’ directed at athletes I have worked with, I am increasingly at a loss for how to entice these people to want to share their stories - and naturally it’s a bigger effort for them to want to dig deep for the type of content that has true benefit to the reader. Instead, what we are progressively seeing are interview responses that are much more calculated and guarded – and who can blame them?

Maintaining these professional relationships is my job. Defending vapid free speech in the form of ‘too bad he is a cocky SOB that is too stuck up for his own good’ (note that grammar in these comments has been preserved for posterity) is not, and so I will not. By publishing interviews, I am essentially throwing the subjects of them to the wolves. I am dropping them off for their fist day of junior high in their dirty gumboots and protruding braces, and saying, “good luck, take the bus home!”

To be clear, the majority of Pinkbike.com users are positive, supportive, humorous and engaging. But when an athlete tells me after an interview that he feels like 'everyone' thinks he’s an a*shole because a few ass-hats derailed the comments into a barrage of insults, I take issue. Particularly as the abuse usually falls to the ones who are the most genuine; the ones who care the most about our community and make the time to contribute. They are putting their everything into racing World Cups, risking their lives at Red Bull Rampage, paying their own way to compete around the world, or sharing personal stories that they feel our community can benefit from, and yet because it is not a face-to-face interaction they risk being preyed on by the trolls. It has been said that humiliation is felt more intensely than happiness or anger, and humiliation is what these trolls seek. Why is it okay to hurl degrading slurs at another human being simply because they are in the public eye and distanced by a computer screen? It's not. Developing a thick skin, as I did as an awkward child, should not a be requirement for pursuing your life goals and dreams.

Pinkbike audience tribute

One well-known psychologist, who specializes in the study of cyber-stalking and harassment, advocates ending abuse online through the cultivation of empathy. Currently, we exist in a state where the more we read and absorb the negative comments, the more numb we become to them, and we very easily forget they are targeted at another very real human being. Somewhere between the temptation to engage with the nastiness, even with the most noble of intentions, and our acting on it we need to pause and remember that. Perhaps quietly stepping right over the purposeless negativity and re-engaging with the original content is a way to nullify these voices.

What the narcissists and everyday sadists want, what they feed off, are the replies. Knowing that they have caused us upset is how they win. The more responses we supply, the more triumphant and fulfilled they are in their mission and the likelier they are to repeat it. Don’t feed the trolls, invalidate them. Read the comments, shake your head at the ignorance and leave their hatefulness to wither and die. Protect the quality of our culture and engage as a community to keep the landscape of our content rich, diverse, and meaningful.


MENTIONS: @dbaker / @WAKIdesigns




387 Comments

  • + 121
 I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion... some ride more, some type more. We pretty much all just love mountain biking. The biggest troll is a front page article that looks like an advertisement or every review saying everything is ace IMO. I do like to read people's comments and giggle though, then head out to build some trails, getting the hill ready for the weekend. Enjoy the sport peeps, we only get 1 shot on this planet.
  • + 77
 I agree, the biggest trolling on this page are those biased reviews which states that everything is perfect (any imperfection is due to a pre-production error) and bla bla bla. The comment section is the true golden nugget of this page. I always briefly check the article and head straight for the comment section to read the funny shit people come up with. Big Grin
  • + 14
 I was going to say a similar thing here, a lot of articles posted lately (perhaps I'm just more aware of them now) seem to have the sole purpose of getting us all talking and I guess that's no bad thing but you can't expect to stir the pot without a few trolls coming to the top. The responsibility is still on the community and each of us as individuals to try and respond constructively but sometimes I do wonder "what did you expect"?.
  • + 41
 "....linked the personality traits of internet trolls to the Dark Triad of Machiavellianism (a manipulative attitude), narcissism (excessive self-love), and psychopathy (lack of empathy)"

This is possibly the most accurate description of marketing based "content" I have heard for a while.

We should keep in mind that many articles are often just as much about giving exposure and promoting something and not just about a "candid and valuable story to be shared" which I would wager is passed for editorial approval so as not to upset anybody.

Shure we all are bikers at heart but it is a bit patronising to suggest the internet is not largely a advertising medium, and most sites content has the purpose of generating sales as the main objective.

"...the slow erosion of quality content - writing, photographs, video, etc."

I doubt that "trolls" are the cause of this Wink


In a way this article is just a sneaky sideways troll, I liked it Smile
  • + 13
 " "....linked the personality traits of internet trolls to the Dark Triad of Machiavellianism (a manipulative attitude), narcissism (excessive self-love), and psychopathy (lack of empathy)"

This is possibly the most accurate description of marketing based "content" I have heard for a while. "

This this this this this this this this this!
  • + 19
 Imo the biggest troll is the mtb industry and its constantly changing standards in the name of 'improvement'... Trek, SRAM and other brands have a lot to answer for!
  • + 1
 @ctd07: This was clearly highlighted by Hope with their new cf enduro rig. Evolution is good to a point but then you need Revolution to upset the apple cart. I guess that's life generally. People put up with things until there enough resistance and the status quo is tossed out.... And the cycle begins again.
  • + 4
 @iffy: meta metatrolling?
  • + 40
 Calling people names (first sentence of the article) is not trolling in my opinion. That's just straight out rudeness from people that should be banned.
  • + 0
 @jinx: me too ✌????
  • + 17
 @Mattin

^^ I agree with you, monkey breath. Razz
  • + 3
 @iffy: I thought name calling was what 5 year olds did in the playground.... Anyway you're all a bunch of poo poo heads.... Razz
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: is your name accurate? I would put a smiley face in here too, but I don't know how to!
  • + 1
 @john260164: I have been told once or twice I flatulate too often... It gives me that extra 1% percent on the trails which is useful Razz (colon P gives you a tongue out smiley...)
  • + 0
 @john260164: also its like being on an e-bike up hill. The secret is eating lots of beans (burritos are also a good source now you can get them here in these fair isles).
  • + 5
 @iffy: Good stuff. Just to add a bit to this; By not addressing the heirarchical structures of our culture and those who may, for various reasons feel their power is threatened, whom they decide to blame for all their troubles and how this manifests through the comments sections across the inter weebs, one will never really get fully whats going on. I also feel that these trolls make us uncomfortable sometimes because they remind as that we can be like them as well in some situations. By that I mean externalizing our problems and focusing them on a scape goat. That could be the undeserving poor, the hippy tree huggers, indigenous peoples, immigrants, women etc etc. They represent and express a yukky part of our humanity we all want to pretend we don t have in us.
  • + 15
 Yeah, it's funny how EVERY bike that comes out is "compliant yet stiff", "climbs like XC hardtail, descends like Gwin's DH bike", etc.
  • + 9
 @ctd07: All you guys commenting that the industry and its marketers are trolls need to give your head a bit of a shake, or at least a wiggle. 1. We wouldn't know what's out there if they didn't do this - and I wouldn't be riding what I'm riding if they didn't. 2. They do it because it works - it works because when you buy something you are telling the company and its marketers that you like what they are doing (essentially, you're voting with your dollars).
  • + 26
 Proper trolling is an artform. Beautiful, subtle, profound, ironic. Gently taking the piss, skewering sacred cows and new industry standards, while not quite provoking a flame war. There have never been many great trolls, and few remain still in this social media age, across all websites and forums. Appreciate their talent, denigrate the mere haters.
  • + 7
 @CliffRacer: great use of prose ol' chap
  • + 0
 You just got pranked
  • + 9
 @ThomDawson: One man's troll is another man's truth teller.
  • + 2
 Everyone loves funny and smart trolls. Like Shrek.
  • - 4
flag sevensixtwo (Apr 19, 2016 at 9:43) (Below Threshold)
 @harrisonwright: Statistically speaking, most homophobes are in fact, homosexual.
  • + 2
 "We only get one shot"... deepest comment I've ever read
  • + 3
 @CliffRacer: All too right.. too many people use personal attacks as an attempt at trolling.. but thats not trolling, its just being a dickhead
  • + 3
 @ctd07: In the last couple of years the price of used bikes has dropped dramatically (this includes the bigger wheels too) . If you want to sell a year old bike you'll take a loss of 50 percent of its original price. All thanks to this new standards.
  • + 25
 I can say only one thing about positive reviews. Most of the bikes these days are truly amazing. Back in 2007 when I bought SC Nomad, there were no more than 5 good bikes in this category. These days even Canyon delivers sweet geo and My God, their Torque AM from that time was utter rubbish. I remember buying Spec P.AM. 69 degree static head angle with 150mm fork. The 2010
Niner EMD that I had was horrible beyond belief. Today you take Stumpy 29 and it feels more agile than my 26 Nomad, while being fast as fk. Suspension got so good. 160 Pike is undoubtedly a better fork for DH track than 2008 Boxxer World Cup at the same time as good climber as 2008 Reba. Current brakes like Zee provide immense stopping power under great control at good price and are virtually fade free, without weighing a ton. Super strong alu rims, only slightly heavier than insanely expensive carbon ones.?Dropper posts, dialled UST. It's really hard to buy a fkd up bike these days and that's why I give them the benefit of doubt because it's very little to whine about. Yeti SB6c got a positive first impression. Then I heard a rumor that Pinkbike reviewers broke two chainstays and I thought, wow they didn't mention that aye?. What happens though is that few months later a long term review comes and Yeti gets smacked for that, then Mike Levy cooks up a long rant that he doesn't like to be fed with "pre-production BS".

So yea, it feels authentic to read about something being wrong but at the same time, those bikes really are fkng awesome
  • + 32
 I find it really ironic that one of the biggest trolls on this website is the one who provided illustrations for the post.
  • + 6
 I do think we struggle as a group not to demonstrate one third of said 'Dark Triad of Machiavellianism' (narcissism) when everyone insists on responding to the top rated comment despite the fact what is being said rarely has anything to do with the comments that went before.
  • + 3
 @thestigmk1: I like turtles
  • + 5
 @sevensixtwo: Shrek is an ogre (29" troll with boost)
  • + 1
 @NYShred: HA! Me too...I saw this "MENTIONS: @dbaker / @WAKIdesigns" and thought she was calling out the biggest troll Smile Seeing @WAKIdesigns certainly set off my TrollDar
  • + 4
 @BikeEveryDay:
For sure we do only get 1 chance.
Keiran McKandie was my best building and riding buddy, that weekend (1 month ago today) was the first weekend we hadn't ridden together this year because I was away racing. Keiran was a fantastic trail builder, awesome young man and loved to shred and dig from first light to last light.
I ride 4 k-dawg.
No matter what is written in an article on here, a comment etc. How Keiran lived for mountain biking was so refreshing.
We all need a guy like Keiran on the trails, it makes them a better place.
www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/877984/cyclists-tribute-to-keiran
  • + 2
 @betsie: Grim news, I'm very sorry about your friend.
  • + 0
 @CliffRacer: Beautifully said.
  • + 1
 @NYShred: at least he is a talented troll, whatever that means
  • + 1
 @fartymarty: globalisation matey, its a thing of wonder
  • + 52
 I'd count myself as generally stoked on most things, but constructive criticism/ dismay at what gets pushed on the market sometimes can't be automatically written off as trolling. That's how totalitarian states discredit those who disagree with them, by labelling them as unpatriotic and only out to make trouble. I've seen several below threshold comments that are voted down despite what is actually a valid and constructive criticism. If someone has taken time to formulate a well reasoned argument, it's not trolling.
  • + 14
 Absolutely, too often valid points of view and arguments get silenced and other trolls are left free to roam. Mostly I think we do a good job of down voting true trolls but I wish people would respond to an argument if they have a differing opinion instead of just hitting the neg button. I'm not just talking about my own comments here :-P
  • + 1
 @ThomDawson: I think we as readers have a good idea of what "is" and "isn't" trolling however the powers that be may not always share this view point. Hence "constructive criticism" comments sometimes being below threshold.

Maybe we keep everything above the threshold and let the people decide and voice opinions.

@ThomDawson I agree we should respond more to those we think are trolls. There's nothing like a little intellect to sort the wheat from the chaff.

And another point... who sensors the sensors???? If there is no sensorship we have to make up our own minds... maybe this is a little too liberal a concept to work in reality but you would hope that on a mtb website we can all act a little bit like grown ups...
  • + 38
 Trolling is getting people mad for the sake of getting people mad. They revel in attention and they get it by pushing your buttons. Flaming is insulting people because you can. There is a little bit of both on PB but not all that much.

You can't start calling people names just because they disagree with you. You're not a troll because you're fed up with this month's new standard and you aren't a ludite because you aren't jumping on the latest hype train. A healthy dose of skepticism and critical thinking has never been a bad thing. I agree the the conversation level isn't as great as it could be but to me it is better than being stuck with politically correct statements that never rub people the wrong way, or no comments at all.

There are lots of "opinion" editorials these days trying to calm down the angry mob but I don't think it is going to work. Pinkbike, or the bike industry, isn't the only place this is happening. This is 2016, things got a lot more transparent in the last 20 years as people have access to more information than ever. they're starting to see through the shady stuff. Business/political models based on screwing people aren't as opaque anymore. This isn't going away, You WILL get called on your bullshit and if you want to stay relevant, you'll have to deliver or die. I really do not see this as a bad thing at all.

If everyone seem to hate what you do, take a look at yourself before blaming it on everybody else.
  • + 6
 @PLC07: This. I find this is a better explanation than the article.
  • + 4
 @PLC07: Dood, well put.
  • + 12
 This isn't a simple issue. Like you say, thoughtful critical comments get down-voted, while leering boob comments get up-voted.

This piece is wonderfully written like most of what Baker does, but I think there's a problem lurking on the edges that it never confronts. When you're talking about nurturing relationships with the people you write about, building their trust and friendship -- trying to ensure that the experience of being covered is a positive one -- then you're moving out of pure journalism and moving into a gray area between journalism and industry PR.

Look, I'm not defending the trolling and the infantile name-calling PB has allowed to flourish in its comments. Especially because the real viciousness is aimed at women. But I do think -- sometimes, and less often than other MTB media -- PB stakes out a position as an industry defender/explainer/PR-problem-solver. When PB writers aren't giving voice to the legitimate frustrations riders feel, then it's natural for readers to swing back in the comments.
  • + 0
 I hate trolls like I hate floods, fires, and earthquakes. They are just a destructive force of nature. Helpful they are not, stupid and hurtful they are, but it is just simple human nature. Protagonist and antagonist. Yin and Yang.
As thoughtless and stupid and hurtful as they are, they can in time and through some twisted way lead to something positive.
I think the key for myself regarding trolls is not to ignore them, but to analyze them. I like to see their comments because it helps me understand them, and understanding them often makes me laugh and feel a little sorry for them rather than be hurt or offended, and react in a way that disarms them. Sometimes people will be contrary for the sake of it, without reason and without care and nothing you could say or do will change them since their only purpose is to create conflict through conflict. And sometimes people cling to an idea and defend it blindly without really giving it any consideration, but they are in reality not very invested in that idea. Identifying which type of these trolls you are dealing with is also important.
Trolls are everywhere and not at all just on the internet. History is full of trolls because history is full of people, and sometimes, even horrifically often, people SUCK. But people can also be great, and people can also change.
This was a good article @dbaker @WAKIdesigns and provided more insight into the challenges of producing content nowadays.
  • - 2
 @Phillyenduro: Aimed at women? Spare me. Boohoo.
Please show examples.
  • + 2
 @Metacomet: The whole term/concept of an online troll is to control the groupthink by shaming alternate opinions to the current zeitgeist. I have never understood why everyone gets so worked about true trolls when they are so blatantly obvious you can just ignore them. Legitimacy is earned by responding. Don't take the bait.
  • + 1
 @chasejj: That's something different than what I am referring to. Simply sharing alternate opinions is a very very good thing, and is not really what defines a "troll" in my opinion.
I think the term/concept that better fits the shaming of an alternate opinion is the use of "Hater". Calling someone out as a "hater" just because they genuinely have a different opinion is not constructive at all, and yes, can absolutely be used to manipulate the opinions of an audience.
Trolls function a little bit differently than the "Oh well your just a hater" crowd, but there is obviously some overlap.
The "Your just a hater, or your just a kook" folks are the more dangerous ones really, as they create an us vs them mentality that does not encourage people to come forward with their ideas or allow them to share their opinions in a constructive way.
The trolls usually just want to push someones buttons for the sake of it, create a commotion and gain a lot of attention and just say things they know are going to annoy or offend people. They are predictable.
  • + 1
 @Metacomet: The 26er and e-bike threads here seem to make trolls(your definition) out of the majority. My god. The e-bike thing is just ridiculous.
  • + 4
 @PLC07: Perfectly put. People's distaste for the 'reviews' on the home page now is very rarely without due cause. People are constantly pissed at pointless new standards because:
a) It makes f*ck all difference to 99% of riders
b) It totally devalues our bikes for re-sale
c) Stuff we have isn't compatible any more so it's totally worthless
d) A lot of the time it couldn't be more of a minuscule irrelevant change if they had done it for any other purpose than to piss us off.
e) We want bike bits to get cheaper. If Trek/Sram/Specialized keep changing every minute detail in the name of 'progress' that will never happen (and we know that is a big part of the business model)

I think the readership is better informed than most realise, but that is the first line of attack from most 'in-the-know'. If you want an idea of what Pinkbike's loyal fanbase have to say about the website of late, this comment section is an oddly well put together damning report.
  • + 2
 Let's make this clear: "contradicting purely for conflict" is playing Devils advocate and an age old method to have a discussion about something. It is part of the scientific method and in debate, is necessary to discuss all points. In competitive debate, you are assigned a position to argue irregardless of your belief. If people are not equipped to defend their position against a contrary argument, they have no business writing it on the internet, where they will inevitably be challenged for it.
  • + 39
 @WAKIdesigns one for you, bro
  • + 2
 yeahhhh waki
  • + 12
 @Wakidesigns You've made it mate, you are a hot topic. You can write a parody article about yourself now!
  • + 1
 @Clarkeh: Shhh, he's going to have get a bigger helmet if he gets anymore popular.
@WAKIdesigns Eroding culture or eroding trails, which one should we all worry about more? All jokes aside I knew you would be in the mix just from reading the title. Thanks for all the laughs!
  • + 4
 Literally though..."Ha this is totally @wakidesigns"

Sometimes good points, other times feels like just commenting for the pure sake of hearing the keyboard make noise haha
  • + 2
 @bendroid you do know who did the artwork for this entire article right? I feel like waki usually is being sarcastic, but that's just my impression. I can think of a few others who just split negative and crap on others constantly who fit the bill though.
  • + 9
 @Bigbike99: Waki is no troll. As misguided and esoteric he can be. I can almost always extract a truly well developed argument hiding under from the mass of a good Waki rant session.
  • + 6
 @chasejj: agreed. Waki is not a troll by definition. He's opinionated as hell, criticizes often, but ultimately contributes knowledge to the conversation, albeit with a colorful cheeky commentary that many mistake for trolling. He's not eliciting a negative response but rather engaging in cynical banter.
  • + 2
 Your a whore and a slut Waki. I kid, I kid.
  • + 29
 Whatever happened to Protour?...
  • + 4
 I miss him ye know... come back protour all is forgiven...
  • + 0
 The void has been filled with badboyleroy. I miss deeeight too. We lost the only person who likes new standards.
  • + 3
 Protour kept on bashing the spesh's demo almost daily back when Gwin had a hard time, then disappeared when Gwin started doing great again. As much as I disagreed with deeeight, I still thought his input was valuable.
  • - 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 19, 2016 at 4:57) (Below Threshold)
 @PLC07: deeeight was valuable, no doubt about it.
  • + 23
 @WAKIdesigns: you are the biggest keyboard warrior out here, if you rode your bike as much as you posted on Pb this site would be a better place.
  • + 2
 when Waki arrived, or at least started commenting on every article Protour was already calming down, on the good times he had more than 100 downvotes consistenly. I made an account just to read him
  • + 7
 @JoseBravo: I am here since like 2007 Razz I changed username from SzfetBB to Waki later on. Around 2010 my first midlife crisis started and I became a Green-Leftist loonie for at least 3 years. I remember quite well getting over -200 props on one comment and at least -1000 in the whole article. Now I am part-time sociopath with nihilistic tendencies. @Protour was like @Redburn in the beginning. He became the Demo slayer while Gwin was still on Trek. From single, two liners he went into novel writer and extreme debator during Lance Armstrong's coming out on Oprah. He famously said that Gwin left Trek because as a devout Christian he did not want to be sponsored by a company that supported a cheater like Armstrong. Aaron was asked about this particular Protours comment in video interviews by DirtTV and VitalMTB.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: @deeeight is still here! He was going pretty hard yesterday!
  • + 2
 holy fuck, that's a lot of time in here hahaha as I see it sometimes some people are seen as trolls when they just want to start a debate or play devil's advocate.
  • + 0
 @fedz: NOOOOOOOOO!
  • + 10
 @JoseBravo:

Has it ever occurred to anyone that waki IS protour ? I've known many a troll to have many accounts.
  • + 11
 @VwHarman:

Yes because not giving a shit for the feelings of morons without a command of the facts is considered trolling on a site that lets everyone behave as such and in fact encourages it with up/down comment voting. You lemmings DO all realize the website counts prop votes as clicks for viewing things just as it does replies don't you ? This is important to advertisers to prove the website is worth their time and to brands who submit things for review.
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 19, 2016 at 10:29) (Below Threshold)
 He's back! Partying hard! I like your reasoning Kristin, slicing right through the scam. Isn't MojoMaujer your second account? He also looks for conspiracy patterns and tries hard to let everyone know, how terrible Pinkbike really is Big Grin
  • - 2
 @deeeight: nnaiiled it. they do it for the hits.
  • - 3
 @deeeight: lol for a while, to piss protour off i made another account named protourr
  • + 2
 @deeeight: Of course I get it, advertising is the ONLY reason any of us get all this great content for free! Whether or not people call you, Waki, or anyone else a troll matters not to me. I actually personally think the world would be better with more debate about all things. The only way any of us can learn anything is by talking to people who hold different viewpoints from our own. I suppose some people might get frustrated by people who adhere to the views and are unwilling to consider a different viewpoint, I know that is my biggest pet peeve among the PB faithful is the small percentage that comment but don't converse. Its great to share an opinion. Its even better to then talk about that opinion and try and move things forward instead of just being stuck in the mud.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns - badboyleroy isn't a troll. His opinion and experiences may not be the same is others on this site, but he says what he believes. Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean that he's a troll. It's a fascist attitude that makes people spread hate over disagreements. I don't agree with everything he says either, but that doesn't make him a troll.
  • - 12
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 19, 2016 at 14:52) (Below Threshold)
 @dualsuspensiondave: what?! He comes here with purpose of starting a fight in vast majority of cases. Shows up to show his penis, that is exactly why you get an impression that he says what he believes. You can tell right away that he just can't help himself, just waits for the opportunity to project the sht in his head on any victim, anyone will do, regardless of the topic. And... how exactly is it of any value, to say what you truly believe? I believe you are an idiot, I base it on nothing, but it is my right to think so. I say it to you right in your face and expect credit for being brave to say so, because not everyone would say it in your face. So - How does that feel to you? Deeeight also comes here to start a fight but he does it in a different way and he actually has something to say that is worth listening to. As long as you filter out condascending and paternizing tone, you can actually learn something. Still, they are both higher trolls in denial - sorry. I take deeeight over badboy any day and I am happy to have argued with him many times. I learned things about bikes from him. AS to badboy he may die in car accident tomorrow or die from cancer before Christmas. I will never ask why he stopped commenting. Here, I said something I believe in.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: That's totally not true. I've never seen him do that. And seriously man, the words you said are brutal and completely unacceptable. For you to say that kind of stuff and be a part of this article is the most disgusting, hypocritical thing. You are what this article is about. I'm not friends with badboyleroy, however I've lost a lot of friends over the years. One should never joke about death like that. Karma is a bitch man.
  • - 5
flag VwHarman (Apr 19, 2016 at 15:33) (Below Threshold)
 @dualsuspensiondave: I think you missed the tongue in the cheek with some of those comments. If you take the individuals names out, all waki is saying is that some people give info in a patronizing way, others are just patronizing. I think if good info is contained, the patronizing bullshit is more palatable.
  • + 5
 @dualsuspensiondave:
Unreal. What a piece of shit this wackjob is..
  • - 1
 @VwHarman: So it's tongue in cheek to talk about someone dying?! No, it's not. Waki talks down to more people than anyone else here. @badboyleroybrown talks very straight and direct. No political correctness that has eroded our society. @deeeight does something similar, but a little more harsh. My only problem with him is he acts like Trek has a good warranty program. Haha.
  • - 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 19, 2016 at 15:47) (Below Threshold)
 Because what Dave, does it make it more probable for him to die? Wow. I guess I won't be talking about my 4 year old daughter getting kidnapped and raped tommorrow... What a disgrace to death of one of 4 billion human beings, especially one who said that he regrets that he can't go to Iraq and shoot people. Yes Religion is bad but ride in peace McGazza. Tell me please, did I crossed the line by hurting badboy or did I just stand against common idea how should we talk about dying? It is a tough complex you see, because it affects all of us, and unlike birth we see it as something bad. Am I supposed to think that death is bad? Or is it just sad for those who actualky feel genuine sorrow? Do I sound like Hannibal Lecter to you? No? Let's try Liam Neeson - Listen! I have a very special set of skills, I will find you and I will kill you.
  • + 5
 @WAKIdesigns: you should get banned for that, waki. that was wrong. please don't try to justify the comment with analogies.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: No, it's just disresectful, irresponsible, distasteful, and low class.
  • - 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 19, 2016 at 16:09) (Below Threshold)
 No worries, I've been there. Won't push the subject. Some things are uncomfortable. But look at the end of the day I made a bad man of myself, no fame made with my artwork appearing in the article thanks to that I am a distasteful, disrespectful , irresponsible piece of troll sht, everything matches the normality we can all go to sleep knowing the world is back in order. Is there a purpose in this madness? Didn't you find my rant at least a bit comforting Dave? You are after all in pisition of being a respectful, rasteful, responsible man. I congratulate you.

Yours truly: the fool.
  • + 4
 well said. things not quite right in the bird box saying things like that
  • + 1
 @dualsuspensiondave: No, it's not. I stopped reading waki's comment when he hit on deeeight. I completely glazed over the rest. Wishing or envisioning death on anyone is uncool. Even those that were suggesting a Kardashian over Mcgazza. Uncool across the board. I stand mistaken.
  • + 9
 Oh God, the irony of this whole discussion is almost too good. Wakitroll goes trolling on an article about trolling which used his images of trolls but he's trying to call other people trolls... trollception. Waki should market a new line of russian matrollshka dolls.
  • - 4
flag makripper (Apr 19, 2016 at 18:44) (Below Threshold)
 @WAKIdesigns: hahaha you win again Wink
  • + 2
 Internet world problems... arguing over internet trolling. Waki saying he couldn't care less about another troll dropping dead tommorow is like the sky is falling or something here.

Real world problems... saudi arabia is the leading money spender when it comes to promoting jihadism and world terrorism, not to mention the greatest threat towards the world's economy. This week they threatened to sell off $750 BILLION in US treasury notes if congress passes a bi-partisan senate bill that would allow US citizens to sue foreign governments and corporations that sponsor terrorism. President Obama's response to that threat is that he's considering declassifying the 28 pages of the 9/11 Terrorism Investigation that have been unseen by anyone outside of government circles for 13 years now.

Myself I'm more concerned about the outcome of the later than the former.
  • + 1
 @badbadleroybrown: I think trollception might be the single best word here. Nicely done!
  • + 20
 I was basically told to 'Man up' by someone a third of my age when I challenged a troll regarding their on-line behavior. They hinted that I was so new to the internet that I didn't understand that it was acceptable to be downright horrible to people just to get a rise out of them. This person wasn't even the troll. I'm not sure how these people get on in the 'real' world.
  • + 5
 Funny thing is most of the trolls are gonna be spot poppin teenagers who wouldn't even look you in the eye let alone insult you in person. Saying that tho some of the worst on this site are in 30's and 40's
  • + 5
 pussy.:-)
  • + 3
 @bigburd: gotta love gross generalizations! They are never misguided...
  • + 16
 It is funny how people with a legitimate gripe about a company, or product are automatically labelled as Trolls for not following the company line. If the bike industry does not want to receive critical feedback, then the first step it need to make is to stop messing around with new "standards" all the time.
Of course, there are real trolls but expecting everyone to marvel at everything new is unreasonable. This isn't North Korea.
  • + 3
 People have no idea the difference between trolls, plain old wankers or some one with an opinion! as you say just disagreeing with opinion gets you labelled a troll, calling some one out on a bullshit statement does also,
  • + 6
 @bigburd: I like pinkbike. They write good and occasionally brilliant articles but they clearly class anyone who doesn't react to a product they showcase with overwhelming positivity as a troll. Waki's (excellent) illustration is a perfect example. Either "take my money" or "residing under a bridge".
They also delete perfectly valid comments if it doesn't suit the advert....erm review.
  • + 1
 @bigburd: yep I'm an old wanker and I'm never gonna changeWink
  • + 5
 You can't just make shitty unreliable brakes for nearly a decade and then be angry because bitter people piss on your new product release parade. Or create a new standard by adding/removing a millimeter here and there and wonder why there is a backlash when we've been against frivolous standards for years (and we know you got your ducks in a row 2-3 years ahead of time anyway). Or make expensive tires that fall apart on the first day riding them and wish people don't complain. Or sue small bike makers and expect it to go unnoticed. Or have bad customer service and hope people trust you.

This whole article (and most others) circumvents the real issue here; there is a cause (dissatisfied people) and a consequence (bad publicity). They're trying to squelch the angry mob without addressing the problem. I got bad news for them; as much as you'd like it, the consequences to your actions will not go away if you refuse to solve the cause. And if you believe it is a viable strategy, then I've got a bridge to sell you...
  • + 13
 Wow, I would rather have the reviews on all the stuff that I can't afford and don't want, than this teary eyed drivel that was not at all about any MTB related topic..Pinkbike, this whole article is way below threshold..new writer, new writer.
  • + 6
 social engineering
  • + 4
 bingo.nice one weebles.... atrokz is right.
  • + 13
 We get it. You are very upset at life from your past and you think these "trolls" are amount the same type of people who hurt you. You must be. I mean you wrote an entire article of about your dislikes and how people who do not articulate their thoughts into comments as well as you annoy you. And you want us to agree with you and be annoyed at them with you, the same way you are. The fact is your labeling people that you don't know and are judging it on a comment that they spew out with a lack of empathy. And anyone who rides a 26" bike is a troll? Your just the head troll, someone who wrote an entire article not just a single comment and directed towards something you dislike. "Narcissist and sadist" feed off comments? Are you full yet? We understand, you and your friends are so intellectual, like wine and to discuss what annoys you in the world and how your better than everyone else. "Hmmm back in 1273, The Norse.." blaahw as she's sipping that box red wine.. Your not fooling anyone Troll go back under the bridge now lol.. FYI 26" bikes = trolls everyone.
  • + 2
 If I could up vote a 1000 times I would.
  • + 2
 Seriously, the only comment worth reading out of 300somish. Thank you for calling it like it is.
  • + 2
 and i thank you too. great call out.
  • + 1
 Wow, there does not exist a better example of what the article was about than this comment. Awesome job at completely missing the point and proving the writer's.
  • + 1
 @handsomened: Pure ass Hattery
  • + 16
 ....before I continue reading - the name of your pet duck?
  • + 11
 I have a pet duck named Lord Shaxx. I might eat Lord Shaxx someday.
  • + 2
 @thrasher2: Destiny? I would see no other reason to spell it Shaxx.
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: Yep. I can blame a good deal of my current lack of fitness on Destiny... Also beer.
  • + 1
 @thrasher2: We would get along haha. I usually don't start Destiny without a beer in hand.
  • + 2
 ducks are cool
  • + 10
 "Developing a thick skin, as I did as an awkward child, should not a be requirement for pursuing your life goals and dreams.".............Really? Life is hard. If internet trolls are a problem for you, you must have a pretty easy life. Don't like a comment? Downvote it.
  • + 5
 thank you for sayin what many of us who have been around the block a few times were thinkin...... and actually, a thick skin is exactly what you need to have if ya want to be successful in this world.
  • + 14
 Dosent look like a Session, but sure feels like a Session,
  • + 10
 If words bother you, there is something wrong with you. If you don't care for what someone says, avert your glaze to something you prefer. This article has VERY sinister undertones.
  • + 3
 It also has bad spelling and poor grammar to boot.
  • + 6
 Mr T's mother (I know, I know, but hear me out) taught him to "consider the source". If someone who doesn't know you insults you, you can ignore it because there is no basis for the insult. If someone who knows you says you are a lazy and your feet smell, you better go mow the lawn and then go have a shower.
  • - 4
flag fercho25 (Apr 19, 2016 at 6:47) (Below Threshold)
 im sorry but if you kill yourself for something someone on the internet said, that is not a tragedy is natural selection at work.
  • + 7
 "Offense is taken not given" -one of my favorite quotes
  • + 2
 @axleworthington:
It's a fantastic quote!
  • + 2
 @axleworthington: That is such a good quote. Why is this phrase not used more?!?
  • + 6
 @fercho25: man, you have no idea what people deal with in their own lives. That comment, and the general attitude it represents should be something you are embarrassed by, not something you want to share with people...
  • + 2
 @VwHarman: @fercho25 Hasn't the internet removed some natural selection? Subconsciously we all take into account personal safety and the ability to defend ourselves. But there is no perception of physical size and capabilities on the internet. Even if it is illegal to assault someone and it shouldn't even come to that, all of us would think twice about insulting another human in person based on if you could defend yourself or not.
Also suicide and emotional turmoil is unique to each person. The brain is a mysterious place and chemical in balances and fluctuations also attribute to our emotional stability. To say every human should be impervious to words is not viable.
  • + 2
 I dont care what people have to deal with in their lives is not my duty to feel pity. other people are not my responsability.
  • + 4
 @fercho25: nope they aren't. But don't mind me for suggesting that is a selfish, arrogant viewpoint held by an immature, short sighted individual.
  • + 2
 @fercho25: Being offended is one thing, but if it comes to suicide it most likely was not a one time thing or harmless joke and was a case of repetitiveness. To be fair though, you're right it isn't your duty to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders but we all have a responsibility to realize when sarcasm and trolling turn into something much bigger and hurtful.
  • + 1
 @KottonGin: you are absolutely right. But if it comes to a matter of repetitive personal attacks we are definitely outside of the sphere of trolling and are in front of a case of harassment. that is an actual crime.
  • + 1
 @fercho25: The fine line between the two are lost on some I think. Also prosecution of internet crimes must me a nightmare. It's good for people to read dialogue like this though so they can see multiple points of view and make their own assessment. Bigotry hurts us all.
  • + 1
 @fercho25: @fercho25: ...until your turn comes. When the other shoe you didn't know was there drops it can be an interesting shift in perspective. Quick note: empathy, sympathy and pity are not the same thing.

Just sayin'.
  • + 2
 @iammarkstewart: excellently put. That is what my poorly worded effort early was getting at. Pity is unneeded. Empathy and compassion could go a long way though. Even just a little bit.
  • + 9
 I think empathy can also help not let Trolling get to you. If I read some abuse online I just imagine the person it's coming from.... someone who is angry at life, feels inadequate and is trying to bring people down to their level of misery. I believe that people like this are already serving their punishment by living their lives as the person they are. PS. Comments are without doubt the best thing on PB.
  • + 2
 That's a great perspective which also helps to dissipate any negative energy projected from the 'troll'.
  • + 9
 I think Pinkbike comment section is pretty soft (maybe because mods eliminate comments?) compared to YouTube comments for example, wich I think is one of the wildest places in the internet, a place that you can't leave and feel hope for human kind at the same time lol
People sucks in real life too, it's not like internet creates something new, it's already there. I guess I'm one of the people that got used to trolls or I should said that I get used to humanity.
  • + 2
 mira los comentarios de emol, eso si que es la mierda más mierda
  • + 1
 You're right, the internet didn't create people that suck. The internet opened it up so that people that normally wouldn't get into confrontation or spew vulgar insults at people can get into it. Some pipsqueak talking shit over the internet probably wouldn't say that to your face if you could snap him in half with just a dirty look. I have seen it first hand in real life.
  • + 12
 Keep the website about bikes and biking. I'm not interested in opinion pieces on culture.
  • + 2
 @minion I ask then why did you choose to click on this article? It says culture right in the title, so you easily could have ignored and moved past it. Those of us who do appreciate these kinds of articles thank you for doing your part to get something taken away that you could just not click on though.
  • + 8
 I think it can be very hard to define trolling, and my experience on this site is that the definition can vary from one comment section to another. You certainly can't use below threshold comments as a guide, People can be massively neg propped for posting perfectly reasonable comments or questions (don't even think about asking what song was used in an edit).

The piece on e-bikes yesterday springs to mind, anyone in favour of them was pretty much lambasted and Waki was accused of being a troll.

It also made me laugh that it was OK to say how attractive Hannah Barnes looked in the background when the last guy was being interviewed,but anyone admitting to finding the Yoga Girl sexy and commenting on it gets ripped apart.

One persons idea of a humorous comment can be the next persons idea of trolling. Who decides?
  • + 6
 HEY YOU STOP TALKING ABOUT YOGA GIRL YOU PERVERT IT'S PRACTICALLY A RELIGION
  • + 1
 Uh, it doesn't take Internet-Etiquette Genius to get that "Yoga Girl is sexy" posts don't belong here. Women and girls don't exist in mountain-biking to serve as eye-candy for us.
  • + 5
 @Phillyenduro: I was merely pointing out the discrepancy between what is deemed OK in one comment thread and not another, and BTW I have never posted that I thought she was sexy or otherwise, I was using it as an example.
  • + 14
 I think there's a numbers game at work with whether commenting on someone's appearance online is trolling. Maybe one person saying she's beautiful is a complement, but when it's coming from a zillion people on every post, it starts seeming rude, even if the commenters mean well. If the person is an athlete, not a model, and if the content they're featured in is something besides a swimsuit photo shoot, then you'd hope the comments would reflect that.

As a woman, I rarely find the need to post that male athletes are hot (I mean, they all own mirrors, right? They probably know already), so mostly I don't really understand why so many dudes just HAVE to share with the world that they think Yoga Girl (or whoever) is sexy. Then again, maybe I'd ask Yoann Barelli to marry me in the comments more often if I didn't think my dashboard would immediately explode with 100 variations on HAHA UR GAAAAY Razz
  • + 0
 @metaam: That's cool. I was responding to your suggestion that it's hard to decide where humor ends and trolling begins by suggesting that, in lots of cases including the example you mentioned, it actually ain't that hard.
  • + 2
 @Phillyenduro: I find people have too much time in their hands..bored you know? I started work down pit when 14 years old.never had day off.some folk have never had a reet proper job...
  • - 4
flag chasejj (Apr 19, 2016 at 9:01) (Below Threshold)
 Yoga girl has internet photos of herself shitting in a bucket. Not HOT.
  • + 0
 @Phillyenduro: WTF are you talking about?
  • + 8
 What a terrible article, you basically want to stifle free speech. You have become as bad as the people you are complaining about. You are the biggest troll. This website wouldn't be what it is without the comments good or bad. What a pity party. Tough up or move on. Your a ; racist, troll, bigot, xenophobe, bigot, chauvinist, sextet etc etc. Typical liberal attacks. This article seeks to filter opinions good or bad. What makes a good comment, opinion? What makes it bad......opinion? This article is a joke.
  • + 8
 I just want to live in world where everyone is nice, a world full of rainbows and unicorns, a world where I get hugs from teddy bears and compliments from everyone about how wonderful I am. And whenever I crash my bike I land on a cloud of pillows full of unconditional love...
  • + 4
 Drop some acid. Your dreams of a alternative happy reality might or might not come true. Good luck!
  • + 1
 axleworthington................after the first sentence, all i could think of was..............

www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PgiBpTtao


no control!
  • + 7
 would love to see th e article you wrote and the comment section where people called you a slut and a whore. I have a hard time believing it happene. it will still be there. Link Please. I kind of feel like we are being trolled.
  • + 13
 Shut your whore slut mouth Jeff!!! Lol
  • + 10
 Are you mental? You think that the described commentary is not the standard directed towards women on the internet? Time for someone to pull their head out.
  • + 0
 most probably was a private message
  • + 3
 seriously besides the slightly creepy comment on emilly batty videos I dont think ive ever seen a mysoginist comment on pinkbike
  • + 11
 @avidthrasher: Then she should be able to prove it. I googled and went through her articles and couldnt find anything. There was a bike article on bike cultures that she wrote and I didnt see those comments.

There is nothing wrong with asking someone to prove a claim, It should be easy as everything on the internet is there forever... So just a link a link to prove this article isnt trolling. That she wrote an article and males called her names to the point she feels that she has to develop thick skin so she can follow her dream.

And honestly... the answer is yes, male/female you need to have a thick skin if your putting yourself out in public. Look what I have to put up with just to make a comment from that homo Jamez... ;>
  • + 5
 @vernonjeff:
That's is I reported you!
19000 hour ban for you!!!
  • + 0
 @vernonjeff: You know that comments can be deleted, right?
  • + 3
 If they were deleted then you cant make reference to them cause if it cant be factually checked then it should be disregarded. Da mihi factum, dabo tibi ius. Is a principle valid in all the west wich translates give me the facts and I will give you the law. I know this is not a court but that doesnt mean her arguments wont have to stand a test.
  • - 7
flag makripper (Apr 19, 2016 at 10:34) (Below Threshold)
 @vernonjeff terrible trolling job, i'm going to go and tell your wife.
  • - 1
 @vernonjeff: I agree you should question whatever you like. I just think it's laughable to think that such a comment would be unbelievable when the most common comment directed at women on the internet is still "TITS OR GTFO", lol.
  • - 3
 Well being that a slut gives away for free what a whore would charge good money for, sounds like the author let the trolls get to her if she identified with either/both of those comments, and then turned around and wrote this shitty article so everyone could get a second chance at poking fun
  • + 4
 @weebleswobbles: I agree. I don't really see how this article is a good fit for this outlet in particular. There are so many other places where it is far more relevant. For the most part I don't see a whole lot of trolling or flaming at PB (outside of the rate my bike type posts Big Grin ) other than people who know one another giving each other shit. And to second what others have said, people saying that shitty "reviews" of products are shitty is not trolling or flaming. Consumers aren't looking for reviews that amount to nothing more than paid advertisements as they are worthless.
  • + 2
 @makripper: i dont like you and you know it. mention my wife again and see what happens. its not a threat but I would take it seriously. You are a creepy creepy dude
  • + 2
 @vernonjeff..I found this article from Dec 06, 2012 from bike mag.. Written by Danielle the bakery baker..the title was thebpower of not giving a f*ck..
seems she was trying to not give a f*ck back four years ago and is still struggling with it
www.bikemag.com/blog/the-bakery-the-power-of-not-giving-a-fck
  • - 4
flag makripper (Apr 19, 2016 at 12:58) (Below Threshold)
 @vernonjeff: lol your wife would like to hear about these threats you make.
  • + 5
 @makripper: You two need to calm down. Feelings might get hurt and then we'll get another one of these shitty f*cking articles. Cut the shit!
  • - 5
flag makripper (Apr 19, 2016 at 14:35) (Below Threshold)
 @avidthrasher: it's just jeff trying to troll the writer of the article. I know her personally and I find it dis-tasteful and pathetic that people need to dig into something that comes from honesty and openness and shit on them for it. Even if I didn't know her I would still think it's a childish move. She has a legit point and was using it as just one part of MANY in her article. Here is the pinkbike issue. People her like to pick one of the many things in an article, and try to build something from it for no reason and take offence when others don't see it they do. Good on PB for capitalizing on it but it's too bad some people try to take it too far.
  • + 2
 I would like to see the link too. I have only ever seen positive comments on Danielle's articles.
  • + 5
 @avidthrasher: and we really as a community of mtn bikers don't want to ever read another one of these shitty articles, although the comic relief has been refreshing.
  • + 2
 @avidthrasher: Makripper follows me from comment to comment trolling. He also does it to another PB member and recently started to try and guess that members personal information to try and freak him out. Makripper doesnt like that when its directed at him though.. Right Mike? Im pretty sure this is the troll we are talking about.
  • + 0
 @vernonjeff: is this for real? Thats not exactly trolling. Harassing is a better word.
  • + 6
 @fercho25: @fercho25: all true. vernonjeff is a standup guy, and makriper and waktard are just fist magnets in the real world. both of them need a personality intervention, but its likely too late.
  • - 2
 @obee1: @fercho25 i'm the creepy one? dude sent me a PM of some phone number he thought was mine and I assume tried to call it, then PM me again asking if he had the right number. Also PM'd me about where I work. I'm pretty sure that's harassment and way way up there on the creepy meter. It's cute because my work is public information but still. He must really like me Smile

edit: I dont' follow him from post to post. He's got his head so far up his ass he thinks he has followers? pahahaha
  • + 2
 @makripper: Nobody cares. Your psychobabble bullshit is obvious. You want to talk about the guy you send his address etc that you had no connection to? We have mutual friends idiot. you shouldn't be surprised your not anonymous. I called you, not just PMed you because I thought you had something to say. Turns out your just a coward. Call me if you ever grow a set.
  • + 4
 @makripper: this might not be the right platform for this discussion, but from one adult to another- researching someones personal identity and information including their address and posting it online in public is threatening behaviour. talking to someone about their wife is threatening behaviour, and very poor form on your part. you are a smart enough guy and i do know that you have posted insightful comments in the past that i appreciate. I'll bet lots of people on this site would appreciate more of your mtb related insight and banter than this kind of dross.
  • - 2
 @vernonjeff: who's our mutual friend? I highly doubt this as no one i've ever talked to has mentioned you once. Why would I call you? I didn't get any calls from anyone besides work over the last few days, but it's still creepy how you tried calling me. You're a creepy dude. What is this psychobable you speak of? stop your trolling. its pretty lame dude.
  • + 3
 @vernonjeff: Your friend seems to have made this thread all about himself. As a woman I have never been called a slut or a whore online but boys seem to get excited as soon as they notice that there is a girl posting. It is a little embarrassing.
  • - 3
 @obee1: hahahah have you been to the internet lately? I just made vague statements about someones wife. So you're saying that taking 2 seconds to google someones name and finding ALL of their info is bad? especially if you work in IT and claim to be the head of it? shouldn't your security practices be a little bit of a higher profile? and your buddy creeped on me and found an old phone number from YEARS ago from work. This is all very sad and pathetic for sure but you and your "internet friends" drove the bus here.
  • + 1
 @makripper: I left you a voice mail and you know it. So you are a liar also. Im not involving anyone else but when I was bitching about you they told me to call you. That your an idiot but not dangerous. Anyways, I think people are a little sick of this thread. Thank you for derailing it and making it about yourself. I guess it is the only attention you get. Im done with it. If you have something to say to me PM me or call me but keep the BS off line as it is you and people like you that have ruined the front page with your anger and bullshit.
  • + 2
 @makripper: drop it dude.. Quit typing..just walk away..no one wants to read your internet bullying
  • - 3
 @weebleswobbles: bullying? how about you get PM'd from a random guy who asked if your phone numbers working and tells you where you work? that's some good ol' fashioned harassment right there. Please tell me how that makes me a bully?
  • + 3
 @makripper: everyone else quit commenting on this thread 15 hours ago and you woke first thing this morning to keep running your mouth.. What gives brah? Just drop it..
Uci dh race # 2 is this weekend, everyone else on here will be watching.. You will probably still be running your mouth
  • - 3
 @weebleswobbles: Are you trying to troll me? is that it? You don't answer my last question because you had your foot in your mouth and now you are trying to desperately go into reverse, but your stuck in the ditch.
  • + 2
 @makripper: just shut up now for f*ck sakes. you now have 4 people telling you too.
  • - 1
 @vernonjeff: I didn't get no voicemail. Just saw this comment now guy. Who do we know mutually? you're full of BS. I'm glad you can see that i'm not dangerous. is that why you attempt to threaten people and try to find their information online? Why would I call you? I don't have your number, and i'm good without it. I have no anger towards anyone, not even you, even though you attempted to call me and are creepy as all f*ck. I'd PM you my number if you want but you blocked me. I've invited you down a few times now to go for a ride and you never accept. You are the instigator of the BS when you say that Danielle didn't have what she said happen to her. Why the hell would someone make that up? You post BS you get BS. have a nice day Smile
  • - 2
 @vernonjeff: LOL now if I did what people told me to do all the time, I may as well be a robot Jeffory.
  • - 2
 @vernonjeff: Who is this mutual friend we have? You're more full of shit than a coachella portapotty
  • + 3
 @makripper: @vernonjeff: I've ridden with Jeff and hung out socially with him, and I know what he does for the wider MTB community. Mike - I don't know you and based on what I've read here and other threads I don't particularly want to. Your trolling, stalking, and borderline threats/harassment (real or implied) are very creepy. Behaviour such as that wouldn't last 5 minutes in the grown up world of real adults, where there are consequences for actions and words. But hey it's PB and MTB so we allow people to act like spoilt brats, bullies, and shit throwing apes. Mike- You've thrown the gauntlet down and gone into very dubious territory with a couple of people I have great respect for. I would suggest either of you take the initiative to contact the other and discuss this ongoing e-battle or better still have a face to face meet up to discuss in person. The valley ain't that big that it's not a viable possibility. From personal experience of the lowest of the low that dwell amongst us and claim to be mountain bikers, when the onus is taken and offers are made to meet up, the bullyer/stalker/creep/weirdo never accepts this opportunity. Hmm - I wonder why? Seems like Jeff made the effort but was rebutted with claims of stalking. Be the bigger man. Either way. Meet, talk, or do not. Regardless, I suggest you both end this online diatribe.

tl;dr too much drama and BS
  • - 2
 @gnarbar: lol I've made the effort plenty of times. Such is life.
  • + 9
 Good article, well said. The older I get, the more I dislike the human race.
  • + 3
 Hard not to isn't it. Keep smiling (and riding)
  • + 1
 matter of perspective I guess it actually makes me very to know people still care enough to fight about something is when we all agree when ill be sad.
  • + 7
 Just came here to be a smartass: the concept of trolling actually derives from the fishing practice of dragging a line through the water waiting to catch a bite, not the creatures the live under bridges.
  • + 0
 Thank you. That's why they call it a trolling motor on the front of the bass fishing boat. I'm glad someone cleared this up for the majority on here has been using it all wrong. Cheers
  • + 7
 Fantastic article! (I did have to look up the meaning of a few big words Razz ) Raises some very good points, and is very well written. @WAKIdesigns some bloody good sketches there man!
  • + 4
 Thank you Smile Just to clarify, the bike on the screen is Santa Crux Noman with 250W Bosch engine.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: it also looks like a 29er+
  • + 1
 @Milko3D: wouldn't it be cool to take an article with bike checks from Cairns WC and Photoshop in electric engines into every single bike?
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: then feed it to Pinkbike to feature it as a top story article, I can almost hear the internet screaming.
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: engines run on combustion. Motors run on electric.
  • + 5
 @properp: You couldn't let this one slide, could you...we didn't ask for facts here Razz
  • - 2
 I think after I read that, I am going to agree with everything properp says. He'd make a great Republican on a TV debate.
-"I am pretty sure there is no evidence for existence of God, mr O'Reilly"
- Oh no senator, we saw your memo from 1971 and in it, you can't tell the difference between an engine and a motor. Then we found a speech of yours from the times when you were running for a Governors seat in Ohio in 1988, where you said nuclear instead of nucular. Your grammar and vocabular defficiency makes everything you say invalid. I would not even trust you if you said that 2+2 equals 4.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Thanks for talking to me again. I knew when you said you'd never reply to me again it was a fib. I must speak the truth. It is on the internet. How could false facts ever make it on to PB. Please see my trust score on trailforks. Its way way way way way higher than yours so theirs that to. lol
  • + 6
 Wake up people! If you cant take a little rub online the real world is going to gobble you up. Nothing wrong with busting on a fellow rider. This is what makes a unique group of people. Being able to get slammed. Then we get right back up shake off the dust. Then do it again and again until we conquer that obstacle.
  • + 2
 So true, some people who work for this site can't handle some ribbing. Interesting they chose a profession where they are subjected to criticism from anyone and everyone.
  • + 10
 You cannot have Free Speech without HATERS AND TROLLS!!
  • + 5
 Writing a whiny article about trolling....with the express purpose of ?not? creating an argument? What's next on Pinkbike, click bait? ONE EASY TRICK TO MAKE YOU A BETTER MOUNTAIN BIKER or THIS MAN BOUGHT AN E-BIKE YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? If its a problem don't allow comments on articles, leave it for the forums, otherwise just shut up about it.
  • + 5
 First off, I wish I could have an inside view on when Richie Schley complained to pinkbike about too many people making fun of him in comments. Second, Waki is just about the only one who should be able to call out trolls, as he is the only one to do so who doesn't pretend like he only gets on the internet for a few minutes between rides in order to tell people to get off the keyboard and hit the trails.
  • + 1
 Did he really get butt hurt and complain? Haha spoiled little rich kid
  • + 2
 Probably not. It was a joke because it's the only article I can remember where so many people made fun of the athlete. But if it's at all believable, that speaks volumes.
  • + 2
 @thedeathstar: actually they did call his ride a douche canoe. He probably did cry about it a little.
  • + 2
 There was also that Ben Cruz article where people were calling him out for being addicted to Amazon prime whilst hating on yuppies
  • + 0
 @cuban-b: I had almost forgotten.. Man all this comedy today is really moving my recovery from surgery along..I'll be back on the bike really soon. Laughter really is the best medicine..
  • + 5
 Why do people on this website make a big deal out of trolls? If you're letting some kid grind your gears or just get to you over the Internet you're just as bad as them. Trolls have been around since the dawn of time, popping up however they can and obviously the Internet is great place to piss people off. Going on to a Linkin Park forum and proclaiming Justin Bieber as the greatest musician to have ever lived was pretty fun for the 12 year old me. Only once have I ever seen 'trolling' escalate to a serious enough level that needed authorities to deal with it, because guess what, it stopped being trolling and became cyber bullying. Big difference.
When you get a large enough community of people you're gonna get pricks. it's physics or something. Let's all get a straw each, and suck it up.
  • + 4
 Trolls are everywhere! Even in your own head. It takes practice to create a critical mind. A mind to see thrue things. People should see the potential in other people rather than shortcomings. Do not judge and accept instead. Simpele things yet hard to accomplish by humankind. Be awere for these trolls inside! Thanks waki, for filosophical inspiration!
  • + 2
 It's Danielle Baker who wrote it, I just drew stuff. I can't write like that, even in Polish Big Grin
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I love the audience drawing dude, good work!
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Nice art work! Like always. Very Nice imagination and clean rythme of lines.
  • + 7
 Once i saw the photos by waki i didnt even read this article as you are promoting a trolls work. Way to be a hypocrite
  • - 1
 I don't consider @waki a troll. Troll is getting thrown around way too much, the same way if someone doesn't like your opinion they call you a racist. It's a way to bully someone into not expressing their opinion. Liberal bullying tactics are very deceptive, go look up Ben Shapiro on YouTube listen to him break down the liberal bullying culture. This article is attempting to bully us into not to say ing how we really feel which I thought was the idea of this site. A troll is someone who stalks you and attempts to make your day/life miserable. Let's not get it twisted.
  • + 6
 @norcal77: make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them
  • + 0
 @airmiller44: how can you prove it was deliberate? You can assume. Sometimes it obvious. Sometimes it's just opinion. Be wise enough to not be offended and you will never get trolled.
  • + 5
 @norcal77: my opinion is he trolls every article i dont need proof to form an opinion. Here is a recent comment of his and it speaks for itself. We are on a bike site.
WAKIdesigns vernonfelton's article
15 hours
Random Thoughts from Monterey - Sea Otter 2016
I just got paid a fat sum of Canadian pesos, by Sierra Club and I'm going to dress up as Lawrence of Arabia, take that electric fatbike and ride it on sundays through national parks shouting "Allah snackbar! I am a mountain biker! Chris Kyle was a fg and was killed by his disappointed lover." - bullet proof vest from Leatt will be nice too.
  • + 1
 @airmiller44: I personally got a chuckle out of that, but i didnt take it seriously. This coming from someone who shouldnt as im a Registered Republican so i should be offended right? Its like when my buddy i play PC games with gets called the N word when PC gamers hear his voice and want to get at him. It doesnt bother him. One consider the source. People who say things like that are depressed, need attention and/or are so far beneath you that it holds little weight. I guess i consider trolling coming after someone personally, all the rest is just someone being childish. Those comments for sure should be removed, but its not trolling
  • + 1
 @norcal77: hes trying to get a rise out of people and pollutes this site all day with his keyboard diarrhea. He's trolling everyone that comes here to ride bikes and read about bikes with all his political and conspiracy theory b.s. he is no value added and is featured on the site often. Its contradictory to this article.
  • + 4
 It's interesting how many articles we've seen about quelling negativity. The bike industry and media should think about why so much negativity exists these days rather than putting the blame on riders. Just maybe things like putting motors on mountain bikes and not supporting two year old bikes that cost more than used cars might have something to do with it. There's always been negativity and there always will be, but when it grows to the extent we have these days it's time to look in mirror rather than blame riders.
  • + 6
 This has to be the worst article that I've ever read at a mtb site , go to your safe space in tumblr if you don't want criticism
  • + 6
 We ride bikes: it's the inner child. There's enough negativity about in the world: remember - we ride bikes. Pretty simple really. Chill -Smile
  • + 4
 people are so sensitive these days.... sheesh it's the Internet not a church... this is what it's for... hiding behind a screen and flaming everyone and everything.... if you can't handle it... well there's a log off button and tonze of apps u can do on your own... or hey.... go outside and meet some people and keep social media out of your hands... alot of people come on here because their home life's are un satisfying and they can pretend to be someone they are not... take it with are grain of salt...
  • + 1
 My friends and I have a saying, which is, "mad cause bad". It basically means that people who are bad at things (say you're not very good at biking) are also usually angry to accompany their shortcomings.
  • + 4
 This aspect of our culture is very journalist-centric. The online comments section is a humorus offshoot of mountain bike culture, not really representative of actual mountain bike culture...you know, riding on trails with other riders. Kind of a non-issue in reality. Turn off the computer and go ride.
  • + 4
 I don't think this article displays a great understanding of how and why people interact in the comment section. Actual bullying and trolling are incredibly rare. Instead, most of the negativism we see is simple rudeness or merely callous criticism. It is almost never targeted at an individual. It is rare that someone is commenting just to piss everyone off. Instead, people genuinely think their posts are correcting incorrect or deceitful info. Rather than railing against the negative comments and viewing them as a problem with our culture, I choose a more soothing and hopefully more enlightened perspective. That is, when you reach a mass audience and allow for feedback, much of the feedback will be critical and negative. The people who agree are just less likely to comment. On the other hand, when people see something they think is wrong, it is more likely they are to jump in and rectify the situation. So don't let the percentage of negative posts get you down. It's just the nature of receiving feedback from a large group of people. If you think that's bad, imagine being a politician!
  • + 4
 If you think the comments here are bad, try the comment section on YouTube! lol I grew up in an age before comment sections, online personas, social media, etc and yeah it's all just digital text that isn't real. Those people furiously typing wouldn't dare say speak a word to another person.
  • + 3
 Unfortunately, Trolls are part of any community, and I support said Trollers. They look for your weakness and pray on it. This isn't any different than in our natural world. Birds pray on the fish that swim in shallow water because they are easier to see and have less a chance to escape. And over time hopefully people will view said weakness and fix them. If someone is viewed as a "cry baby lil bitch" then maybe they are. Maybe the author of the article presented the individual as an a*shole (maybe they didn't mean to but simple word choice can have drastic miscommunication effects). I'm labeled. I know I am. I'm intelligent, focused, and stoic. However even by this someone is going to focus on my use of intelligent, and find some horse shit reason to say I'm not (not using correct verbs or punctuation, etc...).

So just because you think that the comment comes from a "Troll" maybe it comes from a different view point.

So lets talk about the athletes you interview. While I don't care about any of them, I also have no sympathy for them either (We can about empathy all day, but lets be real I don't sympathsize for individuals that are doing things that most would love to take their place and would take the issues that arise as, shit happens get use to it). You mention they risk their lives everyday for the sport in RedBull rampage, that is their choice. At least they get to have fun doing it. There was a story in my local paper about how an older gentle man killed 2 police officers when they arrived at his home to exercise an eviction. They have a dangerous job that serves public good. We could all find some other sort of entertainment.

Maybe what this article should be about is ego. If you read an article about yourself and you don't like what you hear, it's either the voice in which you were portrayed or you think your shit don't stink, and it smells like (insert clever anecdote).

I'll leave you with this, Think outside, no box required.
  • + 3
 Prey.
  • + 1
 What you have just described is called Spencerism, the application of Darwin's theory of evolution to human society. As an intellectual person this should immediately ring alarm bells- the parrallels to the 20's and 30's are exacting. By the way, for there to be prey, something has to be killed. With people we call this murder. With races of people we call this genocide.
  • + 0
 @R-trailking-S:

I prefer this definition of prey- a person or thing is the victim of an enemy, a swindler, a disease, etc.
Lets's use prey in a sentence - The creepy old guy at the club was preying on the young women.
But to each his own. But it takes a true master of thought to define my thoughts as a concept you learned (Do you understand my thoughts or are you classifying my thoughts so you can explain them to yourself).

Am I going to Genocide the internets on the line?
  • + 3
 Its just type on a screen. If it bothers you that bad hit the power button and enroll in some self a steam classes. Negative rubs drive progression. Not all will see it this way and I respect your opinion. If some type on a screen bothers you that much your issues are much bigger than a trolls post. THERS NO CRYING IN MOUNTIAN BIKEING.
  • + 8
 and no spelling, either, I guess Smile
  • - 1
 @RunsWithScissors: No mountains just fun flow trails. Some of the best year around riding in the U.S. There is also Snowshoe and beech mtn. Just a days drive away. FL riders do it all year.
  • - 1
 @properp: snowshoe is west Va. And beech is in north Carolina not really close
  • + 2
 @weebleswobbles: I guess you don't understand the statement a days drive away. That means you get in a car and drive for a day.
  • + 6
 There are no trolls you only choose to be offended.
  • + 2
 We live and share a small world, even smaller in the sport we love. Every moment of your life through interactions with others we can make an impression. Why not make a good one, not for other but for ourselves. Smiles tend to feed my soul, I hope that for everyone.
  • + 2
 Im a reader of most of the popular cycling websites. The best part of them is the comments section to see what the opinion of the everyday rider is. Its cool to see the different perspective of people that live in different parts of the world. The comments section is essential in my opinion to post a legitimate article about a product or service. Having said that, I do feel that pinkbike's commenters are generally much ruder and less accepting than some of the other cycling forums. On other sites the commenters don't seem less critical, they just do it in a friendlier and more constructive way. A product that has no use to me, might have value to someone else with different experiences and abilities. I choose not to get upset about someone making that product. If its useless, people won't buy it, and I won't have to see it again. The point I'm trying to make is, constructive comments are essential and entertaining, but lets remember that people are putting their time and effort into their articles and comments so we should try to be more considerate. lets keep it just as hilarious though!
  • + 3
 I find this article "playful" yet "stable" in the "chunder," "stiff but compliant" in it's message, "climbs like a goat" at the high point, & was a great article "despite it's mid-grade component spec."
  • + 4
 Pinkbike can be a troll sometime. Like reviewing 500$ floor pump you know ? On a site where the average user run a 2-3000$ bike.
  • + 3
 Wah! trolls are commenting because Pinkbike publishes press releases on products that consumer in no way wanted or asked for! Wah! Cry me a river! Create real content, I support your sponsors. Internet math is easy.
  • + 2
 In real life, I pretty rarely meet a jerk on a mountain bike and I'd say that 99 times out of 100, the jerks that I do meet on mountain bikes are not really mountain bikers, they're roadies riding a mountain bike ;-) But man, turn on the interwebz and you find the nuts.
  • + 5
 I think Pinkbike should hire "PC Principal" to monitor these forums.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=xZDK_LG9DuU
  • + 2
 You PC bruh?
  • + 3
 Pinkbike is free to ban any commenter. The fact that Pinkbike allows a certain amount of trolling makes me think it provides more income/clicks etc. than it hurts the website.
  • + 2
 Far from eroding culture, trolls are an important part of culture. Maybe they are more often counter-culture, but culture is sometimes as much about what you aren't, as about what you are.

culture:

: the beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular society, group, place, or time
: a particular society that has its own beliefs, ways of life, art, etc.
: a way of thinking, behaving, or working that exists in a place or organization (such as a business)

(reference, merriam webster)
  • + 5
 It's less about the trolls and more about the armchair experts that can barely pedal a bike...
  • - 1
 This right here^^^^^^^^^^! Out all of the PBers I'v called out for a ride not one has ever stepped up and put treed to dirt. Anyone up for a shred hit me up.
  • + 5
 @properp: haha do they even have mountains in Florida
  • + 1
 @weebleswobbles: They have cars and planes to take me everywhere.
  • + 1
 @properp: yes..my apologies man was just making a joke..not a personal attack.if I still lived on the east coast I would definitely be up to ride any of the sick trails w you. Cheers
  • + 1
 @weebleswobbles: I'll be at Bootleg NV next week. Then Palm springs CA. Just a short flight away. Ready to shred if your down.
  • + 1
 @weebleswobbles: Never a apologia needed. I don't really give 2 squirts of pee what's typed on a screen. Actions in real life is what it's all about. Not all this BS on PB. I'm going to go huck my self off a cliff now since you made fun of flat Florida.
  • + 1
 @properp: unfortunately I'm recovering from surgery..I havea couple of weeks of rest then the physical therapy will begin..luckily i will be back on my bike late spring early summer..have fun at bootleg that place is sick
  • + 5
 call me crazy but I've always been a believer that if you have to write an article about something.. then it bothers you..
  • + 7
 Too many words
  • + 6
 Agreed, and hardly any of them about bikes. Mountain bike website mountain bike content please
  • + 2
 Comment threads can get pretty entertaining as they digress further and further from the content of the article. What we don't need is people hating on each other. The "too expensive!", "Boost: ain't care", etc stuff can be hilarious.

As a community, we could allow this fun to happen as long as we engage our own empathy in judging whether a comment is worth another comment or an upvote / downvote. Also, the idea of bringing the discussion back to the original topic probably needs to happen every hour or so, since this place can be like a kindergarten with free sugar.

This is a brilliant article and I think we can really benefit from the ideas that are presented here. We can take the power out of the negative comments by using empathy to adjudicate comments and still keep the fun of the comments section alive.

@dbaker you are awesome! Great article.
  • + 2
 I went out for a TROLL on the interwebs this fine Tuesday morning and found this article..insert your own comments here... I wouldn't want to upset the writer or scratch her thin skin as she might bleed out
  • + 1
 Just like anything in life, trolling is done a million different ways for a million different reasons and here are a few of the main ones I have seen over the years on many different sites and forums. Like others have said, the most obvious reason is to get a reaction from people on a mass scale, like going to a World War 2 video and saying "Hitler was awesome". They automatically know it will get a thousand plus angry responses which is all they were looking for in the first place. The more people reply, the bigger their smile gets, sadistic but true.
Believe it or not, some people troll or attack others as a form of dealing with being depressed or hurting and they're too immature or lack the understanding to deal with it in a way that doesn't bring down others. This in turn makes them feel "better" to bring others down with them.

Lastly, some people do it just because, no other reason needed, they want to see peoples reactions like saying "only good riders use 29r bikes" knowing that comment is going to get down voted into oblivion, That was the point, so they could say "Hey look at MY comment, look I did and how everyone gave it attention".
The less attention you give them the better and in some cases (depending on the individual doing the trolling) trolling them back with a little logic added in with get them to either digress or admit why they're trolling in the first place.
  • + 4
 Pinkbike is a nice place. Visit a german forum to enjoy real hardcore trolling (trolling is part of german dna).
  • + 1
 didn't read all that, late to the game and someone probably already said this. But anyone, PB included, who were apart of releasing the metric shock thing the day before Aprils Fools gets TROLL of the year award... that timing was BS. Especially with Sea Otter so close. Could have done a proper press release like grown ups...
  • + 1
 Very interesting article. I always assumed that the pro riders probably didn't bother reading the comment sections on their articles. It is interesting to hear from an interviewer in the industry about how these comments affect the writers ability to get a good meaningful interview and the athletes willingness to give one. Very good read. Thanks!
  • + 1
 Surely the best response to trolls is to remove the comment section...
Or remove the anononimity and use real names (which is impossible to police). So it's a double edged sword. To get the banter and the wit you have to put up with the trolls. It's simply a part of the internet.
  • - 5
flag Jamminator (Apr 19, 2016 at 2:48) (Below Threshold)
 Just replace comments section with Facebook comments... So people have to use their Facebook account. Problem solved.
  • - 1
 Real names don't stop anyone from commenting in a very rude manner. There are many sites of all kinds with FB plugin showing your profile when you comment, and my experience with them is while there is less commenters, they are usually more aggressive. I think it comes down to the fact that taking away anonymity creates a threshold above which only the most determined assholes want to comment. As to taking away comment section, that is a big no. Most sites envy Pinkbike that feature and it is one of it's biggest strengths. It provides uncomparable feeback and makes users keep on returning, making the site fantastic for advertising. Then If your product makes it well in the comments here, then you've really made it.
  • + 6
 @WAKIdesigns: actually I've heard it does have a very strong effect on the rude comments. People are more likely to say whatever they feel like if they can hide behind an anonymous page where no one knows who you are. As soon as people use their real name, they'll think again, because everyone can read the unacceptable comment and will know it was you. From your grandma to your girlfriends parents to your boss. Especially since it will probably appear in Google if you search your own name.

There is a reason why companies such as YouTube try to force this on the users.

Personally I think banning people for long periods (1-5 years) will also teach them. As long as you make sure no one can create a new account from that same IP address.
  • - 1
 PS: loved your drawings in this article WAKI Beer
  • + 2
 Yeah, and if PB removes the comments section, well.......
  • + 0
 @Jamminator: Yes to this.
  • - 8
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 19, 2016 at 3:44) (Below Threshold)
 @Mattin: I have no scientific data to support my assumption, but the impression I get is that lack of anonymity filters out most people and leaves you either with banal approvals or absolute crap. Them you start moderating and you end up only with banal approval. All that gives fantastic opportunity for manipulation. Facebook discussions are not anonymous and sht that goes there daily is waaay worse than anything I have seen on Pinkbike. Again policing the thing creates opportunity for manipulation and causes site a great deal of trouble to run staff that is meant to be smart enough to accurately determine when something is too rude. Sites want comments, and people (mostly men in that case) comment because they like conflict. It's a game. Nobody comes out and shouts E-bikes are stupid, 29ers are gay, that feminist btch, for appraisal only. You shout it to hurt, and as Danielle writes, they want the feedback of the hurt animal, they want to hear their punch hit someone, and closer to home the better. And nothing tastes better for a saddist than hurting someone, get him winded up in descussion, get an edge over him and then get a few other dudes on your side, gang up and kick the sht out of him/her. Also remember that policing will just create hidden mobbing. Sarcasm and is unstoppable and is a fantastic, crueal weapon against any form of censorship.

We should simply be better at taking responsibility for what we write. My trolling ethic has always been, to not hide behind an avatar and user name and always be willing to take sht.
  • + 7
 @Jamminator .... but then I'd have to join Facebook which is never going to happen!
  • + 0
 Then we need to start talking about things like that because right now commenting is percieved as a dirty, stupid thing to do, a waste of time. Yet so many people do it, so often and with passion. We will get there, we will establish some social norms, but organized censorship is the worst idea. I guess limited intervention in extreme cases only, is what keeps Pinkbike relatively healthy (unless a new standard or E-bike comes along).
  • + 3
 @Mattin: have you used Facebook before? People do not give a shit that their names are shown and carry on with some of the most disgusting and offensive comments
  • + 2
 @bigburd: my favorite was some dude on Dirt website ranting how gay 29ers are and how stupid are people buying them. He finally completely dehumanized me and other two blokes arguing with him. I looked at his profile picture and there he is on a pic from his wedding, kissing his wife. Then first pic on his Timeline is him, holding his small child. The contrast was incredible.
  • + 0
 @Jamminator: If people can be groomed and enticed into joining Daesh (or ISIS or whatever) on Facebook then it's unlikely it will stop trolls
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: you guys are right, some of the most horrible things get written on FB where people are about as far from anonymous as it gets on the interwebz. When you look at PB comments by comparison it's not so bad!
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: I do think there is a difference between Pinkbike users and Facebook users. I like to think that mountainbikers are often more civilized than average people. For example just look at how we responded to SixSixOne advertising on social media with a nude girl. Now compare it to car tuning where every single page in a magazine has at least 2 sets of boobs or a camel toe in it.

Facebook has a much wider audience, thereby also a higher percentage of scum.

For a fair comparison you should compare mountainbiking groups on Facebook or comments underneath the links that Pinkbike shares on Facebook. To me it feels like there's less trolling and calling names inbetween mountainbikers on Facebook then on Pinkbike, which I think is the result of the anonimity here on Pinkbike due to usernames.

Not saying that switching our nicknames to our real names will solve the problem. But I do think the amount of childish behavior would go down by a certain percentage. No idea how much that certain percentage would be, could be 1%, could be 80%. But I do think it would go down.
  • + 1
 @Mattin: I'd never give any larger group of people any benefit of doubt when it comes to being supposedly more decent than the unspecified rest of population, be it Mountain bikers, roadies, engineers, scientists, board members at Green Peace. Being in bikeparks, on MTB Marathons, large local group rides, or DH World Cups, taught me that MTBers are like everyone else. Some great guys, some rednecks, cool guys, some a-holes and just regular, normal people as a majority. It is your choice to focus on a particular part of the genre. I appreciate funny, thoughtful people, even if they are Jehova witnesses. But if someone is a bouffon or absolute idiot, He may as well be a congressman or a professor at MIT. I will avoid him.
  • + 3
 @NR8productions: some of us really will never be on fakebook. That really is the worldwide waste of time
  • + 1
 @weebleswobbles: depends. It makes it much easier to keep in touch with my family who live 1200km from here, as well as with other friends and colleagues I met during my travels. Also a good place to meet up with fellow cyclists for rides. All the messaging for our local group rides and all the invites to cycling events go through Facebook. I'd be missing out on a lot of real social life without facebook. You shouldn't use Facebook to socialize on instead in reality. You should use Facebook to help you socialize and meet up with more people in reality.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: you are right and there is science to back you up studies have discovered although a particular individual may be unpredictable in his actions a colective of those individuals will act in very predictable ways. Is not a new theory even conan doyle's sherlock holmes references it.



So guess what im trying to say is people will be a*sholes regardless of the group they belong.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Bravo! Well said.
I enjoy the hilarious puns displayed on the most mundane product intro on PB. And the instant and misguided e-bike HATE on display whenever it rears its ugly head.
  • + 1
 @Mattin: fortunately I do pretty well meeting people in reality because I talk to them..conversation really is a lost art form..I don't need the interwebz or fakebook to help me meet and socialize with people like myself who like riding bikes and having fun with friends. I do see your point and realize that social media can help people and be a positive influence I wasn't hating on others use of social media, it just isn't for me personally
  • + 1
 @Mattin: fortunately I do pretty well meeting people in reality because I talk to them..conversation really is a lost art form..I don't need the interwebz or fakebook to help me meet and socialize with people like myself who like riding bikes and having fun with friends. I do see your point and realize that social media can help people and be a positive influence I wasn't hating on others use of social media, it just isn't for me personally
  • + 1
 Great article, Danielle. An aspect of the trolling issue that is often overlooked, is age. The anonymity aspect of internet commenting allows frustrated youngsters to express themselves in ways they can't in "real life". Proof of this can be found in vicious Youtube comments where the average age of viewers on the most popular channels is often well below eighteen. Mountain biking heroes are rewarded for being aggressive, showing off, doing crazy, dangerous things... You'll find similar childish trolling on skiing and other action sports forums where kids (let's just say it: boys) are discovering and trying to understand themselves in terms of all this high-testosterone action. In light of this, the only way to curb trolling is by requiring proof of age, which would require bank account/credit or other official id info. Punishing all young readers for the trolling behavior of a few is not exactly a great way to welcome future riders to the sport. Strict moderation is probably the only viable approach; a man-power issue. I suggest not reading comments on articles you write. At least not in the action sports field.
  • + 4
 The real troll is Fox and their stanchion covering social class colour scheme
  • + 1
 asking the hard questions
  • + 1
 Thanks for the article. I'm relatively new to PB, more as a refugee when Dirt Mag UK went out of print. The other week I was definitely surprised at how a simple discussion on bicycle suspension got out of hand. It actually seemed like my more on-topic ideas about suspension simply went unnoticed. Even though there is more I could have said, I eventually pulled out. Seems indeed like you can't win it as those who are in for trouble just pull something small out of context and blow it up like someone has to die right here right now. Now I am aware I should just pull out earlier and no longer bother.
  • + 2
 We ride bikes, we are all here for the same reason. Why hate? I don't have anything to contribute but I wanted to shout out my support for this article, it's writer, and this great community. Peace!
  • + 2
 EMERGENCY ALERT: PB you must post a video over this one of hucking to flat on the Shore with Offspring, Greenday or Metallica background songs ASAP!!!! Lmao
  • + 5
 Yer all wrong !!!! Wink
  • + 4
 Article about trolls on the Interwebz.....Irony?
  • + 9
 Google irony.
  • + 5
 You cannot avoid irony in MTB mountainbiking causes muddy clothes, which leads to lots of laundry which becomes piles or irony.
  • + 4
 drunk trolls who ride e-fat bikes are the best.
  • + 3
 When the parks open and your on a 26",,just know according to her you belong under a bridge
  • + 0
 A very well written article that begins to address the negative side of having open comments on articles.

I read many of the comments that followed the article and noticed that some of the comments were positive but unfortunately the negative comments started and then dominated the remainder comments to the bottom.

Those that post negative comments really don't realize that they discourage people from posting quality content about the sport we all apparently love which is the reason we are at this website.....right?
  • + 3
 Sadly those days are long gone when I was called a slut/whore. Any smokin chica trolls out there.......
  • + 2
 I still think you are...
  • + 2
 @vernonjeff: haha thanks buddy. The young hotties just call me sir. FACK!!
  • + 3
 So... there is a "journal of personality and individual difference"? Yowza there's a journal for everything.
  • + 1
 I would hate to be on a panel reviewing THOSE articles: "Oh no, this article is poorly written and makes spurious claims against unsubstantiated data, but I can't say that or I'll be judged as having a personality disorder. Best just say good things and let it be published."
  • + 3
 Great article, superbly written. This stuff needs saying. Keep up the great work Danielle.
  • + 3
 @dbaker thanks for inspiring article! Ride on!
  • + 2
 Wow this is Gay! If you let dat trolls get to you. dat troll is doing a good job
  • + 1
 Words, words, words...ain't nobody got time for that.

I do like how they have the one chick article as "The Bakery" though. Lulz.
  • + 1
 quite a boring article.isnt there something more interesting,beneficial,or even funny to read or look at,hope they arent paying you more then peanuts...shit
  • + 3
 This article looks like a session.
  • + 0
 I encourage everyone to check out this beautiful little cartoon, that I think sums up the internet trolling community quite nicely...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=670if6Etx0o
  • + 3
 made me cry, so sad
  • + 1
 The person who made that video is trolling, don't you get that. Eye for an eye right? The author attacks and belittled the person who they perceive as a troll. Too many people on this planet, too weak minded people looking for an excuse to blame others for their misery.
  • - 1
 I'd say the the PB props works way better than any other system I've seen for patrolling trolls in the comments after articles. In part that's due to qualities of the community - care about the content and haves many shared ethos. Props works way better than the MTBR forums reputation meter, which basically just rewards people who post a lot, and some of those people are frequent trollers. If a negative comment rises to the top then you really need to look closely at why that's the case. For example, people here hold grudges, and maybe rightfully so, against things like large companies with aggressive lawyers, or faulty dropper posts or brakes. When you are the little guy (consumer) there isn't much other recourse than talking about these problems on the internet.
  • - 1
 Great article and good food for thought. I think a lot of readers are missing the point, trolling is different from a simple complaint because the purpose of the troll is to get people to react thereby reinforcing the troll comments. Any attention is good attention especially if from people you don't know or care about is the troll way of thinking. I'm pretty sure if well liked and respected pro's were active in the comments section it would be a different place. And I love the comments section, 90% of the negative comments are witty, inoffensive and well thought out words at the expense of products that don't need to exist and don't have feelings that can get hurt.
  • + 1
 i feel like the picture with the troll licking their lips, the bike should have been like a schwin and the comment said "looks like a session"...
  • + 3
 What does she mean? There aren't any trolls on PinkBike ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • + 2
 Drawing: Richard Cunningham is a chubby middle aged mountain biker not god.
  • - 1
 Sometimes is problem the forum itself. You think something but you cannot express everything the way you feel and there a lot of misunderstanding / misinterpretations happen.
But trolls are part of this community also, maybe underestimated human being whoever this might be, there is always a problem within hinself and society is helping to cure this problem much. People tend to relay on stuff coming from "society" e.g. a good marketing department of a company. And there is a lot of people who can't keep up and if you count another frustrations from family, work, neighborhood, you name it... they are looking for compensate the aggression which is growing inside of them. Trolling is just an expression of something worse.
  • + 1
 My favorite trolls are the people that call everyone weak in any of the drive train articles for spinning anything lower than 1:1 gears.
  • + 3
 Are there really that many trolls on pinkbike to warrant this post?
  • + 2
 this all seems pretty heavy for a MTB website.
  • + 3
 Boring!
  • + 1
 The anonymity of the internet is what breeds trolls. Take away the anonymity and you'll see way less trolling.
  • + 0
 @laminar true, but define troll. Is a troll someone expressing opinions or someone stalking someone in an attempt to make them miserable. Example, I'm not a racist because I want to stop illegal immigration and I'm not a troll because I don't like something or disagree with it. We choose to be offended. Political correctness is killing us. Let people say what they want and then choose whether you like then or not. We need to stop labeling people so quickly though
  • + 0
 @norcal77: I totally agree. I think political correctness has become oppressive. People get offended by the most ridiculous things. I'm not easily offended, but sometimes people say shocking things, merely to provoke others. Kind of a sad existence really. If there was an actual name/person associated with commenting, I think people might be more cautious or at least more articulate when stating their views. People have opposing views - nothing wrong with that. Fact-is, most of these people who say horrific things about others (for example) would never have the balls to say these things publicly. News websites are some of the worst. I remember when Tineke Kraal was busted for sabotaging North Shore mountain bike trails - man, some of the comments were brutal. Lots of people were condoning her behaviour in the commenting sections of news sites (behaviour that could have easily killed or permanently maimed someone). These people were hiding-behind their computers; I highly doubt they'd have the courage to approach a mountain biker and voice those same views.
  • + 1
 @norcal77: I agree that this climate of being overly politically correct is partly to blame. Similar to what is happening in American public schools where everyone gets a medal and no kid gets left out. When you post an article online where thousands are expected to view your content, you have to be prepared to take the good with the bad.
  • + 2
 Pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows
  • + 2
 What about triggering and microaggressions?
  • + 8
 Pinkbike is my safe space.
  • + 10
 My trigger word is microaggression
  • + 1
 @jasdo: Word.
  • + 1
 If you are perusing the comments in this forum and you can't tell who the trolls are; you are a Troll.
  • + 1
 Raceface know how to deal with "trolls"...

#chestergate
  • + 0
 did they ever sent you the pedales?
  • + 0
 @fercho25: Yes they did, and in all fairness they are great. My problem was with the marketing. But hey-ho, old news now Smile
  • + 1
 So does this mean 26" is making a comeback?
  • + 1
 What culture, f#ck bikes
  • + 0
 I only looked at this because i wanted cupcakes
  • - 1
 WTF are gumboots?
  • - 2
 i love lamp
  • + 0
 @upchuckyeager: don't make fun of the author's gumboots she may take it personally..and yea wtf is a gumboot?
  • + 1
 Man I wish I was riding the kitsuma trail right now.. I bet the only trolls out there are under the bridge at the bottom in the picnic area before you turn to go back up old highway 70.. Bet its beautiful right now
  • - 1
 @weebleswobbles: hey now, got in a quickie this afternoon at kitsuma. conditions are sick, it was awesome.
  • - 1
 @upchuckyeager: haha nice...moved out west a year ago..gonna hit the downieville downhill this year..grew up in NC i love the trails there. Cheers. Happy trails.
  • + 1
 Bikes. Bicycles.
  • + 0
 Can't handle the bants tbh.
Where's waki at?
  • + 1
 Trolls are Richards !!
  • + 1
 Cry me a river
  • + 0
 Some important points in this article. Thanks for posting.
  • + 0
 Great article Danielle! Glad you posted it!
  • + 0
 nice story
  • - 1
 @WAKIdesigns those illustrations are sick!
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