The Complete 2021 Santa Cruz Nomad Lineup Compared

 Forget the paint, why does the fork crown look backward in the first picture?

Mega offset experiment?

 @ninjatarian: haha good spot, just saw it myself!

 @ninjatarian: Seems like they had the fork sent in for service to the pb academy contestants

 @ninjatarian: That's the new negative offset, full review tomorrow...

 @shr3d: Looks like they did the video as well.

 @shr3d: hahahahahahahaha oh man that was awesome

 @ninjatarian: Fell off my chair :-D
I find that frame with loong fork and super long and slack seattube pretty ugly, so they probably tried to unweight it with that flipped fork crown.

 2020 Norco sight colour

 From the looks of these paint colors, they just went right over it and let it blend

 Headtube looks weird and oddly shaped. Also why haven't they done an alloy version of this model?

 @ninjatarian: This was addressed by @mikekazimer over in the field test. It's not backward, just an illusion.

 @ozarksagd: Likely used the same bike that they did in the video that got thrown into the back of a van. Could be damaged. Who throws a 10 k cdn bike in the back of a Van? Likely the same person that comes up with the procing?

 Luckily you're getting more than just a drivetrain for the money . That said, I do believe that brands would be better off to forego the cheaper specs if the frame is expensive already. You're only going to get complaints like above. Are people even buying these? They might get them to immediately swap parts but obviously that's a waste. Especially as the biggest complaint about NX and SX seems to be that the cassette doesn't have a 10t sprocket and the used HG hub body wouldn't accept that either. So upgrading is costly. Of course as you're still getting the other parts you may still end up cheaper with upgrades than if you'd build a complete bike from scratch, but it is still a waste. Why not do as Cotic does? If you don't want a part on your bike then they're not going to put it on. They don't like wasting parts either. Or have the middle ground option like Stanton offers, a rolling chassis.

That said about the lowest end spec. Go one spec higher and you're getting the DT 370 hubs. These are getting more than enough dislike too.

 @vinay: +1, I really wish all bike manufacturers would sell rolling chassises or even just frame+fork kits like some of the smaller manufacturers do. You'd still get that OEM pricing benefit for the most expensive components of the bike and the ability to build up the rest to your liking.

Not to mention that with Fox, they don't even sell performance elite to the masses, so the end user is forced to pay a lot of extra for some shiny gold paint.

 Seriously, Santa Cruz bikes have terrible components and frame for the price.

 Look at the aud pricing; 6k for a frame! And only 2 bikes under 10k, and one pushing 15k!!! Santa Cruz, you've lost your minds; either that, or the world has...

 This. I would've found GX barely acceptable at these prices. Can you imagine BMW selling a 5 series with plastic Chinese tires as every level model? Omega selling a watch with nasty cheap bracelet? Snap-On selling a ratchet with plastic sockets? SRAM selling a MTB specific groupset with a nasty cheap feel and plastic parts that explode on impact? O wait...

 Came to the comments to say nearly the exact same thing. Ouch!

 @freeridejerk888: that's a wildly subjective statement.

 @freeridejerk888: In what way are Santa Cruz frames “best”? They certainly don’t offer the features of other brands. Their frames aren’t particularly light. Durability is on a similar level to many brands. Nothing about Santa Cruz frames justifies their ridiculously high cost.

 YOU SUCK CORONA!!!

 Yeah I though my forbidden druid at 4000cnd was expensive but it was the deal of the century after looking at rocky mountain altitude at 4500$ and now the nomad at 4650$

 Or $9,799k CAD and not even get Fox Factory 38 or an X2???. I know its just the Kashima coating that makes the difference Performance Elite to Factory (and its been disputed that it does anything at all) but almost $10k and not get Fox's top model fork and shock? I know they make good bikes but something doesnt add up for me.

Imagine the SantaCruz brand image if they didnt have Petey or Greg?

 But think of the evolution:
This year's new frame: longer, lower, and slacker
Next year's frame: longer, lower, and slacker
The year after that: longer, lower, and slacker
The year after that: longer, lower, and slacker
The year after that: revolutionary new frame with 26" wheels

 Durability is way higher than most if kit all brands. Everything is thought out paint is super nice. Customer service is the best. I’m not sure what else you need. I’m on my organ bearings after two years. Spin as smooth as day 1. Not sure why that’s bad @WalrusRider:

 @lastminutetech: It does come with a factory 38 and factory FloatX2 or DHX2 on that build...

 @freeridejerk888: disagree about the paint. It looks nice but it’s nothing special and if you strip it off there is a LOT of filler underneath.

 @leon-forfar: on the cheaper frame only

 @Rusettipasta:

You can buy Fox's performance elite forks, not so sure about shocks.

Here's a 38 performance elite on Jenson: www.jensonusa.com/Fox-38-FLOAT-Performance-Elite-Grip-2-29-2021-2

 What bike did you strip?@wibblywobbly:

 Santa Cruz has been in dentist territory for a while now.

 @WalrusRider: I would agree, the majority of other brands have caught up or surpassed SCs nifty features such as good internal cable routing.

 @lastminutetech: Ah you were looking at the XT reserve option. I guess it's for people who value carbon wheels over Kashima stanchions and 200g frame weight difference. At least there is a proper benefit to the carbon wheels.

 It is the "value" option. My LBS will not carry NX Eagle which really should be called "NX Gerbil".

 @leon-forfar: very true

 Is owning a SC compensating the same way a short man does in a jacked up pick up truck?

 @WalrusRider: their carbon frame price is essentially the same as everyone else. Why does everyone keep saying this shit?

 @Solorider13: you are right actually. It’s just their builds that are ridiculous. Go figure.

 @wiffle: and compare it with Canadian pricing with the currencies almost at parity. Tax can't make that much difference.

 @Solorider13: I’m saying it because their frames are expensive. Specialized Stumpjumper or Enduro frames go for $2700 and $2800 USD and have storage in their down tubes. Nomad CC frame is $3400. But you’re right, Santa Cruz frames aren’t too out of line. Their builds definitely are though. Unlike Trek and Yeti trying to charge $4k for a frame which is outrageous.

 @Rusettipasta: Yeah, something has got me wondering whether this has to do with how OEM deals work. "Ah, you want to buy suspension, yes? Yes, possible yes. If you buy our fine drivetrain products, we can perhaps make you a nice deal. This table please..." During the time when all Pinkbike visitors were claiming all complete bikes were OEM spec'd with a SRAM drivetrain, a company like Cotic (who offer you to leave the individual parts behind if you don't want them) were still speccing Shimano drivetrains primarily. But yeah, I hope that now that the collective thirst for more and more gearing range has finally been satisfied, people no longer require a new drivetrain when they want a "new bike" and the rolling chassis option becomes more interesting. I can then definitely see Hayes/Manitou run with this one. Or Suntour. Both have interesting options at the budget end where we currently still see SRAM/RockShox dominate the OEM market. But I think both Suntour as well Manitou have the production capacity to meet demands as well as the successful athletes to raise demand.

 It hurts me to say it but there's plenty of inventory on their 27.5" bikes

 I love how every one is complaining about Santa Cruz bikes, and they are back ordered. I know some one who bought a hightower's in September, and they don't get it till March.

 Yeah, I'm quite keen on the idea of having a nackered old transit now but not so bothered about the nomad

 Yeah- but that will cost you another 200$.

 The problem is it depends on which country you're in. France & Germany have different prices to Italy, which has different prices to Spain. I'll put in a full pricing chart at the bottom now so you can compare for your region

 @jamessmurthwaite: Thanks for the update

 Never realized there was such a huge difference in prices between EU countries. Especially between Germany and Italy for the C XT model (the one that seemed most interesting to me, didn't check them all). 500 euro difference for the same bike, wow!

 @jamessmurthwaite: is it a mistake or C costs less than CC in Us and Can $ but is more expensive in GBP??

 @vinay: Yes, lets milk those Italians!

 @vinay: I didnt realise such price differences in each euro country. Strange because nothing stopping most folk from buying the bike from Germany anyway like a lot of people are doing now.

If you are in Italy why pay the higher price when its so easy to order from germany

 I had no idea either, it's caused by government set taxation rates in the individual country is it?

 @leopaul: There’s no customs between Germany and Italy...

 @FuzzyL: do you know what makes the price difference?

 @nordland071285: i would say that it comes from the distributor's margin in the country. I think it's a different comment for each country.

 @leopaul: Customs is not applicable to commercial transition within UE country, but as you say correctly, Sales Taxes are charged depending to which country the part/bike/what ever is shipped

And for all US/CAN/UK, if it seems strange all this Taxes flotoation, You can't imagine Car prices through Europe! And thing is... you can't live in a country (Tax address), and have a car from another country.
For a simple Toyota LandCruiser in Germay starts at 66.773€
(www.toyota.de/automobile/land-cruiser)
In Portugal starts a 129.825€
(www.toyota.pt/new-cars/land-cruiser/index.json)

welcome to UE TAXes, where U means anything but Union!

 @nordland071285: company, sorry it's quite tricky with a French corrector on ????

 @nordland071285: Don’t know how Santa Cruz handles this, but it’s possible that the distributor, in order to get a certain price, has to commit to order a certain number of bikes, the guy in Germany could of course agree to a much larger figure than his Italian counterpart...

And then there’s VAT, which, as far as I know is 20% in Italy, but has been reduced to 16% in Germany to support trade following the Corona crisis.

 Santa Cruz is very close to Silicon Valley...maybe they know something about the future of the E.U. . .

 gave an inch and felix took a mile

 Santa Cruz bicycles is currently owned by Pon Holding. Their primary business is car import (though Ben Pon actually designed the iconic Volkswagen T1 van). The German cars in their portfolio (Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche...) are considerably cheaper than the Italian cars (Lamborghini, Bugatti...) so they probably just extrapolated that to the bicycle market.

 @GuinnessRCD: I lived in Italy for years and my guess is theft is responsible. Italy is a nation of thieves. It's kind of a sport for them. If any Italian here objects to my saying this, I have one word for you: Furbo.

 @leopaul:

 @nordland071285: tax rates are different for example. Germany has 19%, Hungary has 27%.

 @vinay: Bugatti is French and it is a S.A.S. Plus Molsheim is still in France.

 @Ba1rog: They’re all just Audis these days...

 Second to Intense but I agree most of the time the SC are hideous. Strangely, the identical Julianas are always so much better looking.

 Nope, i like their colours!

 Not their pricing tho,...

 Well when you paint on top of the colors of nomad past..there tends to be bleeding

 I dunno what happened, they used to look sweet.
Some of my faves:
m.pinkbike.com/photo/8922628
images.app.goo.gl/JUPTrbigjTCSADs89

 I would buy a V3, to replace my Faithful V2

 yeah your right, im someone who owns a v4 and used to own v3. v3 defo the better looking but theres no question that the v4 rides better than the v3

 The Marin Alpine Trail Carbon 2 is a rad bike, and has great value,
but it's not really a fair comparison with the Nomad XT build, IMHO.

Marin Alpine Trail Carbon 2 has an alloy rear triangle, made from four separate pieces,
vs Nomad's carbon rear triangle, which is one single piece.

Alpine Trail Carbon 2 has a mixed bag of components: Shimano XT rear derailleur, Shimano SLX cassette, KMC Chain, FSA Gradient crankset, SLX brakes, Shimano HB-MT510B rear hub, and Shimano HF-MT410B front hub, house brand rims, and 180 SLX rotors front/rear)
Nomad XT has full XT drivetrain, including crank & chain, XT brakes, 203/180 IceTech rotors, and DT350 hubs with RaceFace rims.

Alpine Trail Carbon 2 comes with X-Fusion Manic seatpost.
Nomad XT comes with Reverb.

Also the Santa Cruz is assembled in Santa Cruz (www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUu7Ma3Dv8A)
which doesn't make things any cheaper.

Alpine Trail Carbon 2 definitely has it on the Nomad R Build though, and maybe the S-kit arguably.

 @monkeybizz: lol aluminum chain stays are preferred by who? not me lol also you would rather replace shitty rims a hundred times rather than get a bike with ones that don't need to be replaced? lol seems cost effective.

next off new reverbs have a self bleed button so non issue.

Are you really so dull that you think a company like santa cruz can't setup logistics to make bikes over seas? and you obviously don't get how business works if you think every company should pay for american workers but some how do it at the same cost as child labor in china?

also life time warranties don't matter because people replace bikes every couple years? lol must be nice to have thousands to throw at new bikes every couple years...oh wait didn't you just complain about costs??

last off super conservative numbers? lol yea 63.7 HA is SUPER conservative.... said no one ever

so you don't wanna spent 2k more but wanna pay for wheel rebuilds a few times a year, waste cash on buying into every new bike trend the pops up every other year and want to support sub par labor practices...what a keen shopper you are lol

 @nismo325: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i support Devinci #CanadianOwned sooo yea! seems I hit a sore spot

 @monkeybizz: "Because any SC is shit value the more you look at it"

It's funny, I would argue the opposite when comparing with the Devincis, Rocky, and Specialized we have on the floor at our shop. SC commit to FULL drivetrains, no half assing like almost all other brands. The spec proper aftermarket Maxxis tires (yellow logos that come with warranty) in well thought out compounds and tread patterns front and rear. The only OEM part you will find sometimes is their own carbon bar (which is a great bar honestly) and their wheels (which are also great, and have top notch after sale support).

Sure, the lower end kits have compromise in areas, as do all brands. I think they typically strike a good balance for the price point, and they focus on things that matter. It's great that their base level bikes (alloy D-kit) still come with the same tires you will get on the top end model. You still won't find OEM "Santa Cruz" parts except for grips on the base level bikes.

When you work in a shop, it's hard not to be biassed towards SC. They ride well, look good, they're very easy to work on, and their after-sales support is as good as it gets (free bearings, basically no questions asked warranty with priority shipping). They may be the same price, or a few hundred bucks more than some other bikes, but 100% worth more than the small savings of going with another brand.

 @leon-forfar: oh Jesus Christ the free bearings thing.

 @leon-forfar: so how does an oem xt drive train differ from a non oem?

 @blcpdx: I don’t much care what the triangle is made of, front or rear, the fact that Marin can get away with shaving a few lbs on the complete bike for far less is more important than vpp. At least to me. I wouldn’t pay almost 25% more just for that and a brand name.

 @CM999: What? It's the same. I'm talking in-house brand components (bar, stem, seatpost, tires, incl. white logo maxxis etc). SC typically spec all aftermarket parts except their own, grips, carbon bar (high end kits only), and wheels (high end kits only).

 @monkeybizz: BTW Reverbs are insanely easy to bleed with the RS kit.

 Guns don't kill people rappers do, Ask any politican and they'll tell you its true, Its a fact music makes you violent, Like Michael Jackson telling little Timmy to be silent,

 @BreakLikeTheWind: I got a van like Jeffrey dahmer
But I like to think that I am much calmer

Lyrical genius!

 "Your mother's got a penis..."

 Let's see how long my comment stays up for for those who don't know the context

 “It’s a banana Michael. What could it cost, ten dollars?!”

 @rickybobby18: Deep cut obscure reference wins the day and Internet. There’s always money in the banana stand

 Maybe SC is sending a message that 27.5 is not going anywhere? not every bike has to be a race bike, some bikes can just be there for to maximize fun in the park and on the trails.

None of us commenting here are ever going to be successful racers probably, and it makes sense for many of us to just use whatever is the most fun. I can see 29ers being fun if you like going fast, but if you like me just want to have a fun, flowy, agile bike why would we ever go 29?

 I want a 27.5 or 29, both doesn't really appeeal to me. Maybe my mind will change if I try a good one. I also like putting my new tire on the front and moving the current front to the back. But that's a minor detail in the grand scheme of things.

 @waldo-jpg: just sized down on a short travel 29 er, gives great balance of agility and stability.

 @Murfdog: my argument was never to say 29ers can't be agile or 27,5ers can't be stable plowing machines.
If you look at the 50to01 guys obivously 29ers can be agile. But with a 'similiar' bike the 27.5er will always be more nimble and playful than the bigger wheeled bike (Nomad vs. Hightower or even bikes where both sizes are available).

 @waldo-jpg: yep wouldn’t disagree, and having helped film the 50 to01 boys they could ride a shopping trolley faster than most on here!! Most if not all are as good on a BMX as they are on a big wheeled bike, however pretty much without fail they size down.

 @Murfdog: if you ever film with them again maybe pitch the shopping trolley idea, you might be on to something

 @waldo-jpg: agree 100%

 Bronson?

 @Habaden: That's a 'side-grade' at best. But thanks for the recommendation. I just gotta hope I can find an extra small nomad v4 somewhere.

 Juliana Stregas pop up in the buy/sell often in XS. Perfect park bike.

 @bendjosh: They also sell right away. I check often. Haven't been lucky enough to see one available. I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat.

 Ibis mojo hd5 comes in xs

 @CM999: Thanks. I'll check it out.

 @CM999: Nope. Just checked. They only go down to small. Not gonna work. My wife's 4'11". She runs her saddle so low that her tire hits her saddle on even just a 5 foot drop. That's even with all the tokens and only 25% sag on her shock. Hehe

 @mtb-duke: if all you’re after is a park bike that is pedalable, the clash jr could probably be upforked to 170 and/or use an angleset and be upgraded over time
www.commencalusa.com/Mobile/clash-jr-dirt-2021-c2x32567999

 careful knolly might sue you

 nah i have a v4 and no issues at all with swing arm or bearings I think its simply been brought into line to follow the same design language as the other frames

 V4 Nomad moved shock to lower location, V3 Bronson moved shock to lower location and added second brace. Things have now gone full circle and the Nomad is getting the second brace.

 C S build used to be ~$4600 couple years ago...

 I know this is a wild idea for Santa Cruz riders, but, maybe you don't have to buy the new version of your bike every time it appears. If it's not an obvious upgrade just keep your current one for longer.

 @TommyNunchuck: But my accountant says it's more efficient to write down the purchase of a new CC frame in this tax year as my earnings are so high.

The truth is I generally buy frames second hand via pinkbike but this kind of bike is a bit of a dying breed. Search for used SB165's and you'll see there is no used market because new owners aren't buying them. Maybe the N5 will be the same and there will be hardly any second hand ones for sale in 9-12 months. I won't buy new but I may not be able to buy 2nd hand either...

 @unclesomebody: Both the yeti sb165 and the nomad are just highly overpriced freeride bikes. they aren't as fast as the long travel 29ers and just as good at freeriding. I hate to admit it as this kinda bike was my first one but they are going extinct. The megatower feels just as great on a jumpline as the nomad but can decent much better

 Add a Cascade Link and you'll stretch your chain stay to 439 as well as get more travel. Then add some offset bushings to get to a HTA of 64.5. Not exact but, hey its like a new bike feel. The link raises the BB, which is nice, and also steepens the HTA, which is not nice.

 @leopaul: Yeah, I'm starting to agree with this. Think a long travel 29er might be my next bike.

 @unclesomebody: make sure you get some time on one first. I didn’t and now I’m on a bike I don’t like as much as my last bike that was 27.5 wheels with similar travel and geo.

 @unclesomebody: I think you can get either option on competitive for 30% off. Pro’s closet swooped on all Yeti’s demos. Hence why they have any of then

 @TommyNunchuck: Why can’t I just be happy?!

 I would consider one if they offered it in aluminium.

 Likely coming next year. They did the same with the last version Nomad, launched it carbon only for a year then added al.

 Mad isn’t it. Clearly no progress in the engineering department

 @CM999: I guess that a lot of it is just from the switch to 38 from 36 forks

 Hmm, not sure what bashing. But purely visually speaking, I have a hard time to believe the numbers in the chart.

 @2pi: while the effective seat tube angle night be 77.5, the actual angle looks to be in the high 60s, so if you have the seat reasonable high that effective angle gets alot slacker very quickly

 @melonhead1145: they've managed to make it just like a road bike where the head tube and seat tube have to be parallel to avoid hurting people's eyes...

 @mountainsofsussex: yeah SC seems to be wanting to do this. Honestly a steep seat tube and slack head angle doesn't look bad.

 @melonhead1145: Fully agree. It looks masculine and rad.
The parallel lines look too symmetrical and boring to me. But other people's mileage may vary.

 Correct me if I'm wrong but not seen them do a XXL 27.5 yet?