The Impossible Bike: Carbon Built Here in the USA - Sea Otter 2016

Apr 17, 2016
by Vernon Felton  
Sea Otter 2016

Alchemy Arktos

You can’t make carbon-fiber, full-suspension mountain bikes in the United States. This is a simple truth. The sky is blue, water is wet and the odds of you ever buying a cutting-edge, plastic-fantastic, dualie crafted here in the states are somewhere between slim and not-a-damn-chance. Cue the math. Back in 2014, 99 percent of the 17.8 million bicycles imported into the United States, came from overseas—the vast majority from China and Taiwan. Ninety. Nine. Percent.

And yet, look at this bike here—the Alchemy Arktos—a very sleek, very sexy, very carbon bike that was very much built here, in the United States. The people at Alchemy somehow made the impossible possible. How (and why) did that happen?

Breaking the Mold

Alchemy Bikes started life eight years ago. For seven of those years, Matt Maczuzak, Vice President of R&D, has been wielding the protractor and welding torch. The Denver, Colorado-based company still has a few ti frames in their line, but composite bikes like the all-mountain Arktos model, have quickly become the bulk of their business. Everything is done in house—cutting the molds, molding the frames, painting the bikes. Raw materials roll in, complete bikes roll out. Built in the USofA, soup to nuts.

So, how the hell do you do that when the rest of the bike industry has shrugged off the very idea of building in America as too expensive a proposition?

“Well, it’s about investing in the engineering and design up front. We spent a lot of time and effort figuring out how do we build this thing as smartly and efficiently as humanly possible. It’s the way we mold it and the way we process it afterwards.”

Alchemy Arktos
Alchemy Bikes' Vice President of R&D, Matt Maczuzak.

Fabricating a frame isn’t cheap. Building a composite, full-suspension bike frame—what just might be the most labor-intensive, hand built sporting goods’ product on earth—is a whole new level of pricey….which is why most full-suspension frames (carbon and aluminum alike) are built in Taiwan and (increasingly) China where labor costs have traditionally been low. How can a bike company pay someone in North America or Europe a living wage to build a carbon bike without the bike becoming ridiculously expensive in the process?

“Labor is the big differential,” admits Maczuzak. “Technology is equal here and in Asia, so what you are paying for is labor. We pay our employees very well, we have very highly skilled people working for us and that makes a difference. If you go to an Asian factory you’ll see that they break down one process into 50 different steps because it is no longer a skilled labor. One person does one little task and the next person in line does another little task. We have very skilled guys who handle it all the way from the mold to paint. To make that work, you have to design a process that lets you do it this way while still being efficient.”

Okay, if this can be done, why isn’t it done more often?

“Because it’s so easy not to. It takes a whole lot of blood sweat and tears to get to this point. It’s much easier just to call up somebody in Taiwan or China and say, ‘Here’s my design. I’ll pick up my bikes in nine months.’

Alchemy Arktos
Alchemy's Arktos frame (with shock) sells for $3.799. That's not cheap, but it's also not as expensive as you might guess when you consider that plenty of frames made in China are selling for nearly $3,000. Are you willing to pay 25 to 30 percent more for something made in America?

Labor costs in China are still significantly lower than those in North America, which is why you are undoubtedly reading this story on a smart phone or computer built in Asia. Wages and energy costs in China, however, are beginning to rise. Don’t expect carbon bikes to start popping out of molds from Texas to Toronto, but if the cost of building in China continues to rise, bike brands will need to start investigating their options all over again.

It’s easier—a lot easier—to build bikes in China and Taiwan, but is there actually a downside to doing it overseas that way?

“Look, there are great bikes being made all over the world—and that includes China and Taiwan," says Maczuzak. "I’m not trying to say one thing is inherently better. But we grew out of a program where we did everything in house, so it was only natural for us to attempt to do this in house as well. And there are other companies giving it a go. Trek is making some great bikes in the States. Cannondale used to make great carbon bikes in the States. And you see a lot of the people in our group, the NAHBS [ed. North American Handmade Bicycle Show] builders, doing it. The Alchemys, the Crumptons, the Argonauts…it’s growing this movement of companies doing composite here in the states. So, it can be done and you’re starting to see more of it happen organically."

Alchemy Arktos
Photo by Logan VonBokel

Is Alchemy hoping to spark something bigger here? Something like a movement of building more composite bikes in the States?

"That'd be great," says Maczuzak. "But I can't say that we’re not setting out to do that. We just want to build the best bike we can ourselves. But if we helped start something bigger than that, that’d be a nice perk. Absolutely."

Okay, let's get down to brass tacks here. The Alchemy Arktos frame sells for $3,799. How does that price compare with what you'd pay for a carbon super bike made overseas? You can currently expect to pay between $2,200 and $3,500 for a carbon full-suspension bike from Taiwan or China. Devinci's latest Troy frame, for instance, has a 2017 price tag of $2,239, whereas Yeti's SB6c frame sells for $3,500. The mean average is about $2,850. I realize that a data set of just two bikes isn't a representative sample size, but still, it's a starting point. Most riders currently expect to pay about $3,000 for a carbon dualie frame. Is a 25 to 30 percent up charge (based on that average price) worth it to you if it means you're getting something that's been made in America?

No one, not even the Alchemy guys, is suggesting that all bikes made overseas are of the same quality. Nor are they saying that bikes made in the U.S. are of inherently higher quality than bikes built in Taiwan or China. So, what are the actual benefits of buying a composite bike made in the USA? Alchemy has the technology and capability, so they’re doing it, but why should a rider looking for their next bike actually care?

“Well, we like making bikes in the United States, because we have complete control of everything going on,” says Maczuzak. "I’m the guy designing the molds. I’m cutting them on our CNC machine and I’m putting the bikes into production. I’m there every day in the shop, watching every bike come through. It’s not a USA versus Asia thing for us. It’s just what we know and what we do best. The only advantage for us is that we have our hands on what’s coming out of our factory. We have control over the product that has our name on it. If riders are into that too, we have bikes for them.”


229 Comments

  • 215 4
 That is a damn sexy bike...
  • 13 0
 a real looker
  • 5 1
 too sexy! 2015 news says you can have it in 15 different colors!
  • 16 17
 Aren't the 2016 Ellsworth bikes made in usa too?
  • 178 8
 @pigit77: let's talk about something people might actually purchase
  • 4 3
 @pigit77: Last I read they outsourced their carbon frames to Asia. I think the aluminum frames are made in the USA though.
  • 4 3
 Amazing bike. No doubt but in the same category as Enve; really great but just way out of reach.
  • 56 3
 'm as patriotic as anyone, but it's difficult to pay 30% more on a bike that becomes obsolete every 2 years. If bikes stuck to standards for a reasonable time, the cost might be easier to consider.
  • 8 11
 I just creamed my shorts. That is with out a doubt the best looking bike I have ever seen. I would buy one even if it rode shit just because it looks so cool. 3800 for the frame though, so you pay the price for a USA build. And the top tube needs to be 10-15 mil longer in each length.
  • 8 1
 That frame has lines and curves in all the right places! I'd hit it!
  • 7 3
 So they're no longer just giving Yeti's fancy paint jobs?
  • 34 1
 it would be killer if companies like Santa Cruz would bring back production to the US - it sucks how their bikes were made in USA and cheap- now made overseas and expensive
  • 56 1
 @sevensixtwo: I think obsolete is the wrong word, it's still going to serve its full purpose 10 years after purchase date, and the 2nd hand market should cover you for spares/upgrades long term. I'm still riding my 09 Giant Trance and it still serves my purpose 8 years post release. 'Standards' might change every 2 years but that doesn't mean you need to listen to the marketeers.
  • 26 2
 @darkmuncan: might be the most calm, reasonable comment on standards I've read in a while, kudos!
  • 7 3
 Love the look of this bike. But, two things - put some bottle cage mounts on that thing, and, please fix the kerning on ARK TOS.
  • 37 1
 @sevensixtwo: Raise your hand if your bike is older than two years.
  • 22 8
 I have an Intense with a Made in America sticker on it. Its a warranty replacment for another Intense with a Made in America sticker on it. I have mates with the same. I had a Cannondale once that had the came sticker. That broke too. Im borrowing a Made in America car at the mo which has a habit of being 'intermittent'. Equally, most Hope products I have owned that are made here have not faired well either. Where a frame is made means nothing at all. Its how good it is that counts. Dont use a flag to rip folks off.
  • 7 7
 First mtb featured on Pinkbike in the past year where no one thinks it looks like a Session!
  • 10 1
 @ilovedust: where it's made is actually quite important to a lot of people. Just pick up an economics textbook and figure it out.
  • 1 5
flag Waldon83 (Apr 17, 2016 at 18:10) (Below Threshold)
 @gonecoastal: yeah, looks very similar to my SB66..... Which I thought was 'hand built in Colorado" ?
  • 1 0
 @scott-townes: Ironically, it's not out of the question that a carbon Session would be made in the USA, as the top of the range carbon Treks were still made in Madison, WI, not sure if that is still true now.
  • 1 0
 @AIexM: Typically 3-4 seasons out of any given modern bike now that I have kid$.
  • 3 0
 @ilovedust: I quote: "No one, not even the Alchemy guys, is suggesting that all bikes made overseas are of the same quality. Nor are they saying that bikes made in the U.S. are of inherently higher quality than bikes built in Taiwan or China." .... yup ... might as well read "We're insisting our product is superior!" You took the time to comment, take the time to read.
  • 4 1
 @sevensixtwo: I was racing an enduro last weekend and offered a guy help with his puncture, turned out his Enve rim was split in two! Crazy!
  • 3 0
 @ilovedust: I've been using be abusing Hope products for years and never had a problem with their reliability, performance or support from them. I'm not a fan of their brakes but that's just because I prefer the look and feel of other brands. I'm happy to support homegrown products and companies. If we don't support our own manufacturing industries and buy cheap from overseas we'll lose them. For an example this look at the UK Steel Industry, govt. and companies buy cheap from China and Japan and now Tata and such like are pulling out of UK and we'll be left with nothing. I bet you my next pay check that within 12 months of them closing Japan will suddenly have a price hike on their 'cheap' steel and we'll be screwed.
  • 1 0
 @CustardCountry: price hike is their exact long game - the UK too blind and/or horsewhipped by the EU to do anything about it - even if they wanted to put the money into preserving industries they can't
  • 1 0
 @ReformedRoadie: Only assembled, the layups are still brought in from overseas last I heard.
  • 1 1
 @ilovedust: "made" can also be twisted to mean "assembled"...
  • 1 0
 @scott-townes: I distinctly recall that the top comment on the Canyon Sender was "That doesn't look like a Session"
  • 2 0
 @Waldon83: think again... Yeti's haven't been made in the USA for years. All their carbon is Taiwan.
  • 5 0
 @sevensixtwo: Obsolete? I had no trouble moving the drivetrain on my 2014 bike to my 2003 bike, nor do I expect to have any trouble finding new parts for it in my lifetime. Just because a new model, technology or "standard" arrives doesn't make the old ones useless.
  • 2 0
 @ilovedust: Brother, I hear ya. My first foray into Hope because of the "made in the UK" badge bit me in the ass when I dealt with their ever present bearing problems. It never struck me right that they wave the union jack around, charge a premium for a "premium product", then cheap out on the number and quality of the bearings. RF did the same thing with their bottom brackets and bb bearings. On the other hand, i9 is made in the USA and worth more than every penny. Just goes to show...

That said, alchemy never once waved the flag in their interview, and their frame looks every bit as good as my SC LTC or a Pivot Carbon. I hope things go well for these guys. Their linkage is spot on too.
  • 1 0
 @ilovedust: they are not ripping people off because of sticker. It is more expensive to make in the u.s.a
  • 2 0
 @themouse77: Correct! Predominantly labor costs I assume. Unlike Asia, the builders of the US-Made Carbon bikes can actually probably afford to buy the products they are making.

Being an Australian though, I wouldn't pay an extra 30% for US-Made. I would pay extra for Australian made though... I do see the 'bigger picture' value in keeping all profits inside the local economy.
  • 1 0
 @ilovedust: first of all made in usa almost always means asembled in usa. If they assemble a certain percentage in usa they can say made in usa. Total bs. But i agree. I dont care where my bike or whatever was made. If it works well then its all good. A more expensive bike that works the samen or maybe even not as well as others doesnt make sense to me. Just me though...
  • 1 0
 @paulclarke: Incorrect: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA
It's actually a pretty rigid legal term. "Assembled in USA" is a different term, which is likely what you're thinking of.
  • 1 0
 @Catfood-Johnson: you're one of the few. That's awesome. Most of us have new wheel sizes, new bottom bracket standards, new hub width, and new fork steerer tube size/shape (to name that major ones).
  • 2 1
 @Catfood-Johnson: made in usa does not mean its all made in usa. Im sure of it. Alot of companies not just bike do it. Some bike companies weld in taiwan make all parts there, send parts here assemble in usa and they are allowed to say made in usa. Im not talking crap about these companies. Just saying.
  • 1 1
 @paulclarke: exactly my point..and totally accurate
  • 3 0
 @omendelovitz: Hey dude is that really the perception you guys have overseas of Hope? Ever present bearing problem is the last thing I would have ever, ever expected someone to say of Hope. Their bearings and seals last for years and years and years.

Not saying youre wrong in any way if that's your experience, but from the countless Hope products I've used and still have running nearly 7 years later (pro 2 hubs, headsets and BB's - I've had a couple of these...) they're honestly as good as new and that's in Grim and Gritty British Weather! Same could be said by every person I've ever talked about Hope stuff with. Really surprised you've had issues with them! Also if you do have issues their customer service is quite simply astounding. Give em a call and they'll go out of their way to make sure you get sorted. not trying to argue or anything. Cheers, Sam.
  • 1 0
 @paulclarke: And I'm not suggesting you're "talking crap", I'm just saying you're factually incorrect. According to the FTC - the regulating body - any company that is required to, or voluntarily uses "Made in the USA" labeling (the latter being the case here) must adhere to the following:

"That is, all significant parts, processing, and labor that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. Products should not contain any – or should contain only negligible – foreign content."

Again, you're confusing "Made in USA" with "Assembled in USA". They are completely different, and the former cannot be used as a substitute for the latter under Federal Law.

www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/tools-consumers/made-usa
  • 1 0
 @sevensixtwo: That's certainly annoying, but I actually had to adapt my new bike's crankset (new bike is press fit) to my old bike, which is threaded. To make matters worse, the new bike has a wider BB shell than the old one. I got some pointers at the forms over at MTBR (which, of course, was tremendously appreciated), but the whole thing was pretty easy. The only new part I needed was the BB itself, which was $20 and came with adapters. Was actually one of the easier parts of the rebuild.

I get that the world of ever-changing "standards" is annoying, but I still think referring to it as obsolescence is a bit much. If even a few people want to buy something, someone's going to make it.
  • 1 2
 Catfood-Johnson: i am not mixing them up. It is clearly listed as a certain percentage.

madeinusachallenge.com/2012/defining-made-in-america

75% of all manufacturing costs.
  • 2 0
 @paulclarke: If you'd simply clicked on either of the links I shared, or even your own, you'd know that the 75% benchmark was proposed, but never accepted. Frankly, it doesn't even support your argument, because it doesn't mention sourcing of parts, which is what you were talking about to begin with.

I get the feeling you're pretty sold on whatever it is you want to believe here, and best of luck with that, but again, you're wrong. The FTC's own words make it clear that only negligible content can be foreign sourced. Literally look up three posts and you won't even have to bother clicking on any links, because I quoted the FTC for you.
  • 61 3
 Main thing I took from that, the first stage of US based manufacture is to have an epic beard. Hope things keep going well for you Alchemy guys, you should be bristling with pride.
  • 48 3
 Man, when this first came out, I was planning on getting one, super impressed with it... me and my bro stopped by their booth yesterday. We were super chill and literally asked two geometry questions, just so it would help me figure out what size I should buy, and man, the alchemy booth were PRICKS! We were both blown away! We just turned around and left... We totally weren't expecting that. And out of 3 people, non of them knew anything about their geometry.. Frown not to confidence inspiring. That shot a hole in me pursuing to buy one.
  • 34 1
 @diggerandrider: $3800 frameset and douchebag employees = recipe for failure.
  • 20 2
 @diggerandrider: man it really sucks to hear that. It's a real shame honestly. I had to turn my back on Chris King ten years ago after I had had my final bad experience with their customer support. I still like what they make but am proudly repping Profile now. Companies pissing on customers and potential customers makes no sense in an era of Yelp and things of the like.
  • 13 0
 @diggerandrider: Oh, well that's somewhat unfortunate. Maybe they need to remember that the beard is only stage 1...
  • 5 1
 @diggerandrider: that sucks! and is still 30% more expensive :/
  • 8 0
 @diggerandrider: are they trying to out yeti Yeti?
  • 8 2
 @EnduroriderPL: and just because it's made in America it doesn't mean it's 30% better...
  • 4 0
 @diggerandrider: That blows. I hate hearing crap like that. I was sitting here thinking my next bike could be this because I'd love to support manufacturing with actual labour laws and standards, but if the guys are a bunch of pricks... Who needs it.
  • 2 4
 @diggerandrider: I wouldn't worry about sizing or suspension kinematics, they're simply not relevant for a US made product by a man with an epic beard. Just bend over, close your eyes, and repeat: "At least they aren't asian".
  • 1 1
 @TomasK: thank God that my Hilo is made in Taiwan Wink
  • 1 0
 @diggerandrider: As a Coloradan who has pretty frequent interaction with Alchemy on the Cyclocross side of things I'd say that the Prick to Chill ratio is about 40% getting blown off, 40% good and cool interactions, the other 10% is mostly just race interactions which I'd say is more of a personal issue.

I'd say try talking to them after Sea Otter and it'll probably be a better experience.
  • 2 0
 @speed10: love profile! Running their hubs on my evil!!! Great customer service!
  • 10 0
 @EgoLicentia: Cracking maths... ;-)
  • 2 0
 @OrangeGoblin: Theres a reason I'm not an engineer...
  • 42 8
 No thanks I enjoy my mountain experience more knowing I've contributed to some unfortunate factory workers future health problems because hey, it's ok to decide that their lives aren't worth as much as ours as long as there's an ocean in between us.
  • 6 4
 Amen brother
  • 13 4
 @jflb - I get the sarcasm and it is perfectly true. At least on paper doing things in Western democracies increases chances of workers getting good pay and social welfare, while environmental regulations increases the likelyhood of company managing waste in good ways.

But on another hand, spider eats the fly. Stronger survives, nature never favors weakness. Only time will tell if the fly wasn't poisonous...
  • 3 1
 These people are just trying to make ends meet in a place where safety is still pretty much a wild wild west thing. Like most here, most of the younger ones enjoy counting down to Christmas too. I did a small donation to a fallen shredder from across the ocean not long ago...
  • 17 3
 You do realize that many of those workers wouldn't have any jobs at all if it weren't for manufacturing exports? I sympathize that their working conditions are complete shit, but let's not act like buying a foreign made product ruins their lives.
  • 18 3
 @DH777: You are right in a way (or in most ways actually), I am no raging fruitarian leftist Hippie but we just don't know how life looks like in there, either Taiwan or China. I guess size if the country cries for being more specific. The fact is people work hard as fk and environmental concerns are very high. I have no clue how bike industry operates but clothing industries are absolutely nuts. I no longer buy any clothing made in Asia. Companies like H&M "hire" kids for slavish work and dump chemicals like paint and dies right into rivers. Then farmers all over Asia are fkd deep in their arses by large corporations and it is undeniable. Local authority comes and Uses various forms of threat and leverage to make you work for a major company. You have to buy their fertilizers and anti-pesticides, your fields are used beyond their capacity, ground waters pumped out for intensive agriculture and you are fkd. Isn't itfascinating that certain regions of India produce lots of export whilethere's famine all over theplace? Isn't troubling to say the leastthat countries like Ethiopia are such huge exporters of coffee while people have nothing to eat and drink? Why aren't they growing
something to eat instead, and use water from their wells for fuking drinking? Therefore I also try to buy as much food produced in EU as I can. Is biking industry clean of such practices? Especially when it comes to environmental pollution, while bikes are made using tons of dangerous chemicals? How can we say that it is better than 16 yr old gets anything and is exposed to chemicals, than if he had nothing to do? Pushing on Cheap pricing is not developing their life quality in any way. That's my problem. Mybiggest problem though is all those people whining on high prices while I see plenty of products out there which are too cheap. They are so cheap they smell sweat shop. Then there are things going inother direction: how come a Nukeproof or DT350 hubs (made in Asia), cost the same as Hope made in UK? WHAT ThE fk? When things are made locally there's better controlover what is going on. As simple as that.
  • 1 4
 @WAKIdesigns: Not going to lie, I didn't read your entire comment in detail, so I may be missing something. I'm also not very knowledgeable on the situations in countries like India and China, but I'll have a go at explaining my relatively uninformed point of view. I'd speculate that concerned citizens of NA and Europe would be making a greater contribution to those employees' lives if they bought the foreign made products and donated a portion of their savings to charities that help those people get out of the poor working conditions (not sure if such organizations exist?), instead of not buying foreign made products.

As for Nukeproof or DT Swiss, perhaps they have proven that they're able to produce the same (or better) quality of product abroad as consistently as their domestic competitors. Aside from marketing, that's the only way I could see Americans paying the same amount for their products. I can't actually speak to the quality of either, but Gwin's 2014 Leogang run indicates that DT Swiss products aren't exactly unreliable.
  • 6 1
 You guys have no idea and are making assumptions . Do a bit of googling and the images you'll find of carbon layup areas in Asia and they are environment-controlled cleanrooms as good as anything in Germany. Other MTB websites go on factory tours there so go have a look.
  • 9 1
 @DH777: charities in most cases are a hypocritical piece of sht. It is about taking 9 pieces of a 10 piece pie from a guy in 3rd world country, then eating them, getting so full you spit one out, sending the chewed up bit back and expecting a medal in the end. On top of it all getting a tax deduction. You should watch a documentary about people growing soy beans in Africa, Mali I think. They were slavishly growing soy as fodder for cows in Europe. Then company buying their soy for nothing was so "generous" they were sending them outdated meat and used up clothes. Can you imagine that? Produce food for someone instead of providing for your family, for no money at all, and then getting that food back but in out of date state? Examples are many and in most cases horryfyingly ironic, like activists using smartphones promoting campaigns against women rapes in Kongo, the exact reason why such horrendous situation takes place: extraction of rare earth materials in conditions defying all human rights. Why are there Somali Pirates? Because European vessels fished out their waters, same happens on Ivory cost at the very moment. You know what happens to a large part of this fish, the livelyhood of thousands of people? They are cut in pieces and fed to Salmon in Norwegian fiords, or at the coast of France. Why is middle East looking like Europe in middle ages? Because Americans and Brits did turn the region into middle ages by buying oil from the Saudis?

As I said I am no hippie idiot, I hate them, but many things in our liberitarian world are fkd up. I can live with alot of that, stronger survives and nature never favors weakness, but I am not going to say that My hands are clean. They are full of sht.
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'd be lying if I said mine weren't either. The point I was trying to make is that, in isolation, buying foreign products has relatively small impacts on the people making them.Yeah, they're working conditions and the expectations placed on them are absolutely terrible. Is that because of people buying the products they make or the result of a combination of the system in place in those countries and their (China and India's) rapid expansion?

If I understand correctly, the argument the OP was making was that by not buying these products, companies would be forced into providing their workers humane conditions. But those companies might also decide to pack-up and leave China/Taiwan/Bangladesh, etc. entirely and move back to their domestic markets. Are the employees that were let go substantially any better or worse off? I'm not entirely sure, so I'm not going to try to answer this.
  • 7 1
 I think North Americans and Europeans enjoy turning a blind eye to their own shortcomings. Also Elon Musk has managed to manufacture almost all parts for Space X, Telsa Motors and Solar City all within the United States, but we are calling a carbon fiber frame built in the United states " The Impossible Bike". Sorry, but I would consider this a home grown boutique bike, nothing near impossible has been accomplished here.
  • 1 2
 @DH777: orrr they could have just lived on their farm happily with their families ...
  • 8 1
 @schofell84: Seriously?

"Hey mom, I am leaving the farm...you know I love it here, but there is a job where I work 12 hours, 7 days a week, and get paid next to nothing...oh, and will shorten my life due to exposure to chemicals and other environmental hazards...tell dad I said goodbye."

said no one ever...

I don't pretend to know the details of overseas work conditions, but I understand there is demand for the jobs. If the alternative to working in the factory was better, that wouldn't be the case. Again, apologies for me ignorance, I was just using logic.
  • 2 1
 Start making a difference by not ever using computers or cars, then move to bikes. Best of luck...
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Haha, you said western democracies! #democracydiedb4thetwentysixinchwheel
  • 6 0
 For the immense majority of the mid to high end bicycle related factories in Asia (Taiwan, China, Vietnam and Cambodia mostly) the working conditions are not those we could imagine watching TV reports. They are often located near big cities or industrial parks, rules exist, there are plenty of job opportunities around and workers would have no reason to stay if they would not feel good enough. Workforce turnover is often the number 1 issue for these companies. They have to give a good enough environment for their workers. Things differ when talking about dirt cheap products made in the countrysides at "chicken" factories. That's what these TV reports show about garment.
  • 1 2
 @ReformedRoadie:

I take it you've never worked in a factory saying crap about farmers being exposed to chemicals haha

Factories are full of chemicals. Not grass and corn.
  • 2 1
 @schofell84:

Check out the amazing documentary "manufactured landscapes"; both awe inspiring and depressing showing the devastating impact mass market manufacturing has had on the environment and workforce in Asia
  • 1 2
 @schofell84: That's kind of exactly what I inferred. Unfortunately, so are many farms.
  • 26 0
 Don't get too excited - only the front triangle is made in the US of A:

reviews.mtbr.com/interbike-2015-alchemy-launches-27-5-arktos-trail-bike

The rear is still made in good old Asia.
  • 12 0
 A convenient fact to skip over in the article, I'm sure.
  • 24 0
 I really like what alchemy is doing. Feels like the craft beer movement 20 years ago. And their frames are stunning.

Don't be over the top though. Black stickers on those Enve rims would showcase the frame better. And is it just me or are the rider and bike a huge mismatch in size in the last image?
  • 14 0
 Looks like he's riding a kid's bike...Also looks like it has 26" wheels, but on their website it says 27.5
  • 6 2
 @atxgravity052: Some of us big guys like riding mountain bikes too.
  • 9 0
 @YManCave: Doesn't mean you shouldn't ride a bike that fits.
  • 2 0
 The TT/reach is a bit short compared to other brands. You probably want to size up with this bike.
  • 3 0
 @atxgravity052: Just a really big dude. It's 27.5
  • 21 1
 "99 percent of the 17.8 million bicycles imported into the United States, came from overseas"
...where else would they come from? Mexico and Canada? 99% sounds about right to me.
  • 7 3
 why not Mexico? better environmental, child labour, human rights standards. cheaper transport costs by land, a more interstates economy. but less cheap, so yeah let's build everything possible in China
  • 1 3
 @gnarbar: Nothing against Mexico. It just doesn't surprise me that they don't build a lot of bikes shipped here.
  • 5 0
 If you did the math, wouldn't you realize that 100% of imports are from overseas, or maybe 1% comes overland.
  • 10 1
 This. This what we need more of: more bikes designed, manufactured & built right here is the US of A. If I were in the market for a new carbon (or aluminum) bike, I would most definitely pay 25-30% more, knowing I was supporting an American business, paying American workers, doing things right here in America.
  • 15 2
 you are the exception my friend, and I applaud and respect you. but most people don't care and want to save $100 or bitch about price. unless more people vote with their wallet nothing will change in this retarded race to the bottom/WalMart mentality economy
  • 8 0
 Man I get it. I really do, but most of the time I have this thing called a budget. For me to be able to realistically ride I have to shop used or on the cheap. If I could afford to buy one of these things in a reasonable amount of time I might consider switching to an American made bike as long as said company had strong ethics, but until that happens I'm out. Little to hard on my wallet.
  • 6 0
 @gnarbar: $100? The base price for a complete Troy Carbon is the same as the price of this frame, and Evo has the 2015 available for $2800. That is $1000 cheaper to buy a complete carbon bike over just this frame.
  • 5 0
 I bought my locally hand made Devinci because it supports local workers. It was a bit more expensive than some other options made oversea but it was well worth it. Not only customer service is better/faster but if you believe better jobs, a better economy and a better environment are important things, sometimes you'll have to walk the walk, even if it implies spending a bit more.
  • 10 0
 Fantastic looking bike! I too try to buy localy produced stuff. My carbon frame is made in Poland, and most of components have been made in EU. Cheers!
  • 17 10
 Why would I pay 25-30% more for a bicycle frame that is not better than the 25-30% less bicycle frame? It's called international trade...and that has been going on in the world since WW2 when we built Japan's factories for them. Americans are so uneducated when it comes to economics...and the old adage, "buy American to support your local community" is bunk. It's called global specialization...hard to come to terms with but since $$$ are the PRIORITY of the WORLD, not health, not family...etc. that will be the reality for the remainder of human life.
  • 45 2
 Americans are good at 1: complaining it's not made in America, 2: complaining about the price of items that are made in America, and then 3: Wondering why more stuff is not made in America.....
  • 1 2
 @weezyb: ^^ Exactly. I have many parts made in USA/Canada/Western Europe. But those parts, and frames are higher in cost (Hope Brakes, Thomson Stems, Devinci Wilson frame, King Hubs, etc.). Anytime an article arrives on PB, shows how awesome those or other similar products are and the $$ that goes along with it, the bitch fest begins
  • 8 3
 Yup, personally I give 0 shits if it's made in the US or not. Prove that this company is great with warranties and QA and that there's some reason to buy their frame other than some form of patriotic charity. Prove up their product is worth paying a premium for, other than just having the "made in America" sticker on it. I'd be happy to pay a premium for a legit better product, but having something made somewhere within my country does not necessarily make it a better product.
  • 5 9
flag WAKIdesigns (Apr 17, 2016 at 13:42) (Below Threshold)
 It is a loonie dream of homeopsychopathic part of leftists that we should start making all stuff locally and world would be a better place. They never tell you that while it may be a meaningfuland just cause, it would mean a significant lowering of the quality of our (Western) lives. On another hand, the fk all dumb part of liberitarians cannot comprehend that we do have some serious surplus of sht which complicates our lives. It is undeniable that our homes are full of sht we don't need, then we could do rather well by sharing stuff like tools. When I hear about needing 3 bikes I want to laugh. I thought two including a commuter is more than enough. So I am not buying any leftist crap, but I am not into free market neoliberal utopian bullcrap where some idiots believe that market self regulates and greed and overexpansion, monkpoly practices don't exist. This slf regulating bullshit works on a principle that If you let the tiger on an arc full of animals, he will die 2 days later from overeating.
  • 9 3
 Americans are idiots, duh. Why else would Trump have a very real chance at being a presidential candidate?
  • 5 3
 Hey Einstein, if you dont buy things made in the USA, guess what goes away? Your job. If you not directly employed by a manufacturer, theres a damn good reason your job exists because of manufacturing. But hey, keep on keepin on with the whole ignorance is bliss lifestyle.
  • 3 2
 @schofell84: Damn I better stop eating bananas and papayas then...
  • 2 0
 @BullMooose: I give a few shits if it's made in the US or not, because I like to see people involved with the end use (riders) involved with the construction. But, I completely agree that the product has to stand on its own merits first. No charity.
  • 10 0
 Do a ride report on this!
  • 2 1
 +1 to that! I've been eyeing this bike recently, looking for shops that offered it as a complete bike. It's crazy light if wrenchscience got the weights correct compared to other frames of it's calibre. Actually, i've been following it since news came out way back 2015 and I'm so happy that we're seeing it today. I'm not even american but I want this!!!!
  • 6 0
 I'm a materials scientist. The materials giant I work for is interested in making thermoplastic CF composite... so you could injection mold a frame. They say the bike market isn't big enough... but would there be a benefit to manufacturers that could bring down frame cost? Discuss... I want to tell the bean counters they don't know 5hit.
  • 6 0
 Well lower production cost can go a couple different ways. They could pass the savings onto customers(unlikely), invest in new frame models, ect, ect. Lower cost usually means bigger bank accounts for company owners.
  • 1 0
 double post
  • 4 1
 Injection molding hollow tubes sections bikes are made out of would be difficult. You could change the shape, but then you'd end up with a heavier bike. Many of the carbon bike are made in low wage areas, so material cost is big portion of part cost. There isn't a big price difference between CF reinforced thermoplastic and thermal setting material. Look, Time, injection mold bike components from CF resins, but don't make frames that way.
  • 2 1
 Wouldn't injection molding a frame defeat some of the purpose of carbon? It's all about layering the weave in different orientations for ride characteristics. But I am unfamiliar with thermoplastic CF
  • 6 0
 @puttsey:
Injection molding uses shorter fibers than what you get with a laid up thermosetting cf process. Typically the part stiffness and and drops off also with the shorter fibers. It works reasonably well for smaller parts where the chopped fibers are closer in length to part geometry. Look and time use that process for some road pedals. Magura uses something similar for brake levers. It doesn't transfer over as well to making frames. There have only been a few companies to try and metal cast a frame. They weren't very successful.
  • 1 0
 @the-vault: such as those Kirk magnesium frames?
  • 2 0
 Both thermoset and thermoplastic composites would rely on continuous carbon fiber for frame strength and stiffness. But TS (basically all current frames) is much easier to lay-up by hand. Processing is improving in thermoplastic, much of it automated, and the material is generally just as strong/stiff as current TS but tougher; and can be recycled. You'll likely see more of it in the coming years. Note there were TP bikes in the 90's, made in the US, but materials and processes weren't as consistent or high performance. Agree with other comments that injection molding short fibers alone won't match current performance in frames.
  • 2 0
 Thanks everyone. Good info here, I'll take a look at the current and past examples of parts made.via this route. Maybe I should license the IP and start my own company making frames and parts :-)
  • 6 1
 These bikes are short. XL reach of 448. Longish CS of 438. Having given a Kona a try, I'd not likely buy a bike with such a short front of center and long chainstays. Seems funky geo to me.
c6f0254acae2379adbaf-b685a5c391567f3cd4529e66a6c0bf41.r21.cf2.rackcdn.com/f10edad6bbe24350976ac8cd5bdc88c6.pdf
  • 1 0
 Same here...
  • 2 0
 It's almost identical to v1 bronson geometry, so they were probably trying to make something competitive/comparable with that, being the "hot" bike, when their molds were cut. I imagine they'll update as they can, though I know how much work is involved in actually bringing a concept to reality.
  • 1 0
 @b26-4-Life: Mhm, valid point. It just seems the cost of the molds will be a challenge to adjusting this design if they ever choose to - though admittedly the Bronson is a very popular, and proven design so I suppose they may not have difficulty with people's geometry preferences.
  • 2 0
 For the record, I value that these bikes are made in the US first because the jobs are highly technical and involved and second because it keeps the employment here in the US.
  • 1 0
 448 reach on an XL is not that short. My current XL DH bike has a reach of 431, and that's with a 7mm reach adjust headset. Or maybe my bike is just unridabru
  • 1 0
 @csermonet: DH bikes tend to be far shorter and while your right that it's not considered short, in comparison to my lanky frame it is indeed quite short. I need to be on something 480 and above.
  • 1 0
 @Pastafarion: How tall are you? Just curious. I'm 6'1 and the reach recommendations that alot of the bike manufacturers and media outlets give for my height are significantly longer than i prefer. All comes down to personal preference at the end of the day I suppose.
  • 5 1
 Very nice bike, imho I see the resemblance of the Saracen Ariel I think they are called? But much more expensive, and built in USA is a plus as well, although that price tag means I won't be riding one any time soon!
  • 3 0
 I remember reading that they made the front triangle in house and the rear triangle in Asia. Has the production entirely moved in house now? Not that it makes a difference, the design of the bike is amazing. There were good articles on it's kinematics when it was released that showed how much thought and effort went the design so I'm sure the production has seen the same levels of care. One of the most interesting frames in the last few years.
  • 2 0
 Absolutely right, last year when Alchemy was making the tour with this bike, they were saying the front triangle was made in Denver but the rear triangle was made in Taiwan... but now all the publicity is making it sound like the whole frame is made in Denver.

Did something change, or did the minor detail that half the frame isn't actually made in the U.S.A. get buried... and, as you say, it makes a difference because they are clearly touting the "MADE IN 'MERICA" story, NOT because Taiwan.
  • 3 0
 Now if they went the consumer direct route, costs would be similar to or less than competitors like Santa Cruz. Bike prices are too high because there are too many hands in the pot. Why the hell am I paying a cut to a distributor back East for the Scott I just bought? Why in the past did I have to get a Banshee ordered through Trident when Banshee was based here in North Van. There are plenty of cost savings available but until the big players start taking a more significant hit in the pocketbook by companies like YT, unfortunately that will not change. I think this is where small manufacturers could make a nice niche for themselves.
  • 1 0
 This would be a wise route! That'd make their prices comparable to top range carbon instead of raising the ceiling. Small businesses stand to gain greatly over more well established by brands by capturing those niche markets.
  • 4 2
 " Back in 2014, 99 percent of the 17.8 million bicycles imported into the United States, came from overseas—the vast majority from China and Taiwan. Ninety. Nine. Percent."
This is a very poorly worded stat. And it's not very helpful. I don't know how may bikes were made in 2014, and I don't know how may were made in Taiwan or China.
  • 4 0
 Its not just badly worded, its wrong. Surely, 100% of bikes imported into the United States came from a different country. That's what imported means...
  • 2 1
 And we still don't know what proportion of bikes were made in the USA.
  • 1 1
 @BenTravis: coming from a different country does not necessarily mean from "overseas", yknow?

fun fact: the US of A is connected to a whole bunch of countries by land.
  • 2 0
 @jaycubzz: the sentence needs to be something like "Ninety-nine per cent of all bikes sold in the USA were imported." (if that is the stat the author intended) and forget the confusing part about 'overseas'.
  • 5 2
 Dick comment: "Back in 2014, 99 percent of the 17.8 million bicycles imported into the United States, came from overseas" .... Actually 100% of imported bikes are imported.
  • 12 2
 True, but not 100% of them are from overseas - there's no ocean between the US border and Canada or Mexico.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: That's not what he meant though, is it. Because he was talking about bikes made in the states, not the americas. Overseas is used as a synonym for foreign even if there are no seas involved.
  • 3 1
 All I can say after reading this wonderful thread. keep up the very good work. When bikes are so expensive why wouldn't you pay the extra and get something built in your own country. I think that's a little special to me. Great bike.
  • 2 0
 I for one will honestly not pay more for something based off of where it is made. I am far from rich and if i am looking for a new product and there are 20 different kinds all of the same quality, I will always shop for the best price. If, however, there are 20 bikes and they are all the same quality AND PRICE, I will then lean to one that is made in North America. Just my two cents.
  • 2 0
 I love the idea of buying a (somewhat) locally made bike. That is also happens to be a damn nice looking bike. However I did the math and it is 36% more then my frame. Does it look like that bike has better build quality, for sure. Does it look 36% funner to ride, no way. Tossing around the idea that $1000 dollars difference is a simple matter of ideology is just silly or stupid take your pick.
  • 2 0
 Happy to see some Made in (North America) USA Content. Yes it costs more, and I dislike hearing people say it costs 30% more then the same for a Overseas bike so I wouldn't buy it. Proper comment is... it is out of my price options, but super awesome that production is happening on home soil.
Could ultimately bring more onto home soil, and prices will change with production numbers..... or, not everyone can afford a Porsche, so buy an Audi because it is in your price range.
  • 2 0
 All the SB66 owners are thinking that it is basically shaped like a 66 from back a few paces...... Now take it out hard every day and in 3 to 5 yrs ( when the average dude finishes paying for it) and talk about just how good it is? I hope I live long enough to see good bikes ( and other stuff) that are affordable built in the country they are purchased and rode in. Interesting comments that offer interesting views from experienced consumers based on what the owned in the past and where it was made.
  • 5 0
 Mountain Flyer was all over this bike.
  • 1 0
 The frame looks good but the standover geight seems to be huge. For my preference these frames are too short. 431 reach in L and 448 in XL? Oh mann, that's so 2012...

I heared their margins for distributors are very bad, so they won't sell a lot of bikes outside the US.
  • 1 0
 I think the "it can't be done" still applies to large quantities, which is why you dont see more of these kinds of producers. It's a whole lot easier to find low skilled labour than highly skilled labour with a specific but broad skill set. It becomes harder and harder to increase production as it gets harder and harder to find people with the right skillset. Also, its harder to take advantage of economies of scale so you continue to price high. The whole concept of specialisation and division of labour allowed economies to advance and become more efficient producers. This is going backwards. Having said that, its not a bad thing but i dont think Alchemy will ever be a big producer with this business model. And im sure many peeps will prefer it that way.
  • 1 0
 "The only advantage for us is that we have our hands on what’s coming out of our factory. We have control over the product that has our name on it."

This is actually a huge plus if they stay on top of quality control. I used to work for a company who specialized in aftermarket performance car parts, Even after visiting/intelligently choosing factories on the front end, we used to cross our fingers when products would leave China. Although the cost savings was phenomenal, we had to offer a "no questions asked", lifetime warranty on product, for Customer satisfaction & PR reasons ughhhhhhh
  • 2 1
 Yes I'd pay 25-30% more for a hand made American product. Because that is where my paycheck comes from so the bike maker can have have a better life and spend more of his American dollars on my product therefore giving me more work and dollars for that sweet Dvo dropper. Simple.
  • 2 1
 USA based carbon manufacturing isn't viable for any real significant scale of operations. If you're going for niche market, hipster sheik you can sell a few frames a year but there's no way to scale up. Between labor costs and environmental regulations in this country, there's no way to take advantage of economies of scale so there's no hope for growth. Get another liberal yoyo in office who wants to jack up payroll taxes like Bernie and even small scale shit like this won't be possible for much longer.
  • 1 0
 Nice bike made in USA its always great to hear. Of course when you have a bunch of skilled guys working on your bike, its much cooler than coming off an industrial factory in China. It gives things more meaning and character. If you can support product made locally, its better in the long run. Soon or later, as the working condition improves over-seas and western countries mid-class get stretched financially, there will be no gain or saving on manufacturing stuff off-shore. Its a stupid short term vision manufacturing model, wasteful and not made to last anyway. Soon or later manufacturing jobs will have to return to the people locally because we can't all work in an office and keep buying shit at Walmart!. And Its cool to have small shops everywhere and in your town making unique and quality stuff! That's how life should be I thing.
  • 1 0
 Has anyone ridden one that could comment without going off on a political tangent?
Obviously only a few have hit dirt with reviews tricking in slowly and positive yet vague thus far. I'm an Ibis rider but interested in the sleek lines and geometry. The TT seems a touch shorter than I might like but I'm interested in a comparison if anyone can provide? HD3 to Arktos? SB6c to Arktos? Pivot...anyone got an apples to apples educated comment or review?
  • 3 0
 downplaying the "buy US made" aspect? not sure why, it's a huge opportunity missed here
  • 2 0
 Side note, if our dollar ever gets back to alright because they are made in the states there's no duty/customs!
  • 2 2
 Total support, I always buy products from Europe or North America when possible, I'm sick of all the excuses how the Asians are more experienced etc. - they only are experienced because American and European companies let them manufacture for them (same goes for smartphones etc.)
  • 1 1
 You always hear about how expensive the CNC'd molds are. I just dont buy it. CNC machines are not the elusive and rare pieces of equipment like they used to be 20 years ago. Aftermarket aluminum car wheels are machined from giant single blocks of aluminum where 90% or so of the material is waste and they're abundantly available for under $200 bucks a piece. Now I understand making thousands of one wheel helps bring price down, and a bike mold is a little larger than a 20" car wheel. But I recall hearing of molds costing in the tens of thousands of dollars. That just doesn't add up. In todays world its completely reasonable to take your mold plans to a CNC shop and have them cut a mold or two for you. With the precision of modern CNC equipment, there would be little to know quality sacrificed and a company wouldn't need to even buy a CNC machine if they didn't already have one.
  • 1 0
 Making a mold vs making a wheel is far more labor intensive with much more precise tolerances.
  • 2 0
 A relevant example would be how Trek just made a one-off mold for Gee Atherton this year. Didn't even both prototyping in aluminum, just did carbon. Which shows how cool it is to be doing things in-house.
  • 1 0
 I bet they paid less than $10,000 for their Fadal mill they cut the molds on.

The costs are how much engineering time they have into it. I bet at the end of the day, after utilities are paid, and material is purchased, they have $1000 into a single mold.

Design time on the other hand.....
  • 1 0
 @xxsurlyxx: a lot of which is offset cost from designing an aluminum frame. Hydroforming and other methods of crafting custom tube sets cost some money too. I think a lot of pricing for carbon is due to it being the marketable thing right now.
  • 2 0
 Some other articles on the bike mentioned that the rear triangle is being produced overseas. I wonder if that has changed, was just not mentioned.
  • 1 1
 I've had less experience of comparing things in the cycling world but compare a USA Fender guitar with a far east Squire and you'll find a chinese guy can plug in a CNC machine and assemble the parts just as well for a quarter of the cost and yet most would still prefer the "status" of the made in USA brand.
Vans skate shoes were made for years in So Cal by cheap Mexican labour before the family business decided it made sense to exploit people further afield and i still wear vans and play fender guitars so neg prop away for my half baked ill informed global economic bullshit
  • 3 0
 Not if the the 25-30% is an $1,000 dollars. Thank goodness for international trade.
  • 1 0
 "Back in 2014, 99 percent of the 17.8 million bicycles imported into the United States, came from overseas" - Surely 100% of the imported bikes came from overseas...... otherwise they wouldn't be imported......?
  • 1 0
 Great bike and even better it is made in the states. To really have a advantage they need to be more competitive on price and once US riders truly determine this thing is rad they would be able to charge a premium.
  • 2 0
 Who said it can't be done ? And for what reasons ? Sounds like you have been listening to idiots.
  • 3 0
 the MTB industry, because they are lazy and take the path of least resistance (and can blame far east company for quality/production problems)
  • 2 0
 That's more of a case of can't be bothred/don't want to though really.
  • 1 2
 @gnarbar: they're not lazy, but greedy for money. Why the far east....? Cheapness. The benefits are not passed along to the consumer. Instead you have companies like Trek that turn a billion dollars and fad followers buying the latest and greatest. I am guilty of spending lots of money on mountain bikes and components.
  • 4 1
 Looks like Yeti sold some tooling
  • 1 1
 I live in Denver, and I was thinking the same thing.
  • 3 0
 In pic is it 26?or is that chap just big?
  • 11 8
 I'd rather pay 25-30% less IF something is made in Amerika
  • 3 1
 If they could design a bike like the Zerode Carbon bike with a Pinion gearbox they would have money now.
  • 3 0
 Am I the only one noticing the fanny-pack on the guy in the last picture?
  • 1 0
 I looked at the Davinci Troy recently and it had a big sticker on it stating it was made in Canada. I asked the sales person if this was true and he said I was.
  • 4 0
 Devinci's high end aluminum bikes, including the Spartan and Troy, are all welded in Quebec.
  • 1 0
 @kazyamamura: the carbon troy and spartan have a made in Canada sticker on them. I own a carbon spartan and have confirmed.
  • 1 0
 @rnayel: The carbon parts are actually molded overseas, but the chainstays are made in Quebec and the whole bike assembled in Quebec, which is why they are allowed to put 'Made In Canada' on their frames.
  • 2 0
 Id like locally produced stuff,but the only thing produced near me are turnips.miles and miles of em.
  • 2 0
 Pela redução dos preços das bikes de carbono, meu voto é SIIIIIM!!!

Os gringos não vão entender nada!!!
  • 1 2
 Impossible bike? Get a grip, if the USA, supposedly one of the largest and greatest countries in the world producing a carbon bike is classed as 'impossible' then you might as well say that sun in summer and snow in winter are impossible feats. Dicks.
  • 1 0
 This should say "Mostly Made in the USA carbon frame" The rear triangle they outsource to Yeti's over seas factories. But the front end, paint etc is all done here in CO.
  • 1 0
 "Back in 2014, 99 percent of the 17.8 million bicycles imported into the United States, came from overseas" loving this fact!
  • 1 0
 I have a turner dhr made in the USA and i have a demo8 made in taiwan if you look at the craftmanship the dhr is stunning. But they both ride sweet
  • 2 0
 Good on you. Alchemy bikes!
  • 1 3
 Cool looking bike...probably room for a couple of these ultra expensive companies as some people will have an affinity for the exclusive and are completely impractical in their decision making process but when you have the likes of Santa Cruz, Ibis, Pivot, Devinci producing frames that are at the top in terms of performance/technology at 20%+ less it will be more likely Alchemy will be a bike brand you rarely if ever hear about again.
  • 4 2
 Am i the only person here that thinks this bike looks like shit?
  • 2 0
 The devinci troy has a made in Canada sticker on it.
  • 2 1
 Very nice build, look, and design! Thanks for supporting our country showing the quality and skills!!
  • 1 0
 Ww that last photo really shows the bike being ridden hard such an amazing photo absaloutly crazy
  • 1 0
 Lots of riders in Colorado rocking Alchemy bikes! It is great to see innovation taking place here in the US.
  • 1 0
 Please bring it to Germany!

We like bikes that are not made in China/Taiwan like our Nicolais or Litevilles :-)
  • 1 0
 Liteville bikes are made in Taiwan. They are really nice bikes though.
  • 1 0
 People are willing to pay more if the quality is substantially higher. Wish they would have shown the linkage
  • 1 0
 I want one.... must save many loonies!
  • 2 0
 Lead in to gold!!!!!
  • 1 0
 Perhaps it's lead sold at the price of gold
  • 2 1
 Looks like a high quality product, best of luck
  • 2 1
 Made is USA means I will buy it!
  • 1 0
 Giant man or just a little bike?
  • 1 0
 fanny pack is limiting air time
  • 1 0
 Looks like a nicer version of a bronson....
  • 3 2
 Another plastic bike waiting to blow a huge hole in the down tube!!
  • 1 1
 This bike used to give me s hard on until I read that only the front triangle was US made....
  • 1 0
 It almost looks like it has switch infinity suspension
  • 1 1
 Looks more like the original "Switch" suspension from the SB66. Just uses a very short link instead of an eccentric pivot as in the original Yeti/Sotto design.
  • 1 1
 Is it me, or do the lines on this bike seem to have been inspired by the Yeti SB66c and SB6c?
  • 1 0
 It looks nice and clean . I would love one in cian !
  • 1 0
 Where's the link to their website?
  • 1 2
 Hey @vernonfelton - back in 2014 100% of imported bikes came from overseas - because that's the definition of imported!
  • 3 0
 See the earlier statement. We do produce bikes in Canada Eh.
  • 1 0
 @kathwill: Doesn't matter. Canada isn't the US, eh?
  • 1 1
 @wingguy: not overseas though is it.
  • 1 0
 @poah: Depends how you get there.
  • 1 1
 copied santa cruz nomad i think..
  • 1 1
 I am way more concerned about the paint job RIP OFF
  • 1 2
 Look at what we have here @theminsta
  • 1 2
 Um trek session carbon Waterloo Wisconsin
  • 2 0
 @brusmaster: oh the horror
  • 2 3
 That is so ridiculously beautiful.
  • 1 3
 no wonder it costs more when they can't spell labour properly lol being made in the country you live in means feck all.
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