The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 102 - Should MTB Media Be Going to Press Camps?

Feb 3, 2022
by Mike Levy  
Art by Taj Mihelich

Flying around the world to ride and write about new bikes sounds like the dream, and it is, but there's more to MTB press camps than you might think. Today's show sees Brian Park, Sarah Moore, Mike Kazimer, and I explain the ins and outs of press camps, from flights, presentations, star athletes, huge crashes, to how they can cost an insane amount of money, and whether the media should even be going to them at all.

We also recount some of our most interesting camps, like the time Kazimer flew to Sweden for two days to visit Mips (which he mixed up with POC in the podcast) and ride a rib boat to a lighthouse. From a bike brand's perspective, Sarah Moore tells us about organizing a press camp and having none of the bikes be available at the last minute; while Brian reveals just how costly a high-end press camp can be, which really blew my mind. And speaking of blowing it, I share a story about the time I cartwheel through a vicious rock garden while testing the new Tomac Supermatic 120 back in 2011. Oh, and John Tomac himself happened to be watching from about fifty feet away.

Got questions? Put 'em in the comment section below and we might answer them in a future podcast.

Feb 3rd, 2022

Flying around the world to ride other people's bikes is weird. And fun, but also weird.

Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.

Previous Pinkbike Podcasts
Episode 1 - Why Are Bikes So Expensive?
Episode 2 - Where the Hell is the Grim Donut?
Episode 3 - Pond Beaver Tech
Episode 4 - Why is Every Bike a Trail Bike?
Episode 5 - Can You Trust Bike Reviews?
Episode 6 - Over Biked Or Under Biked?
Episode 7 - Wild Project Bikes
Episode 8 - Do We Need an Even Larger Wheel Size?
Episode 9 - Why Are We Doing a Cross-Country Field Test?
Episode 10 - Getting Nerdy About Bike Setup
Episode 11 - Are We Going Racing This Year?
Episode 12 - What's the Future of Bike Shops?
Episode 13 - Are Bikes Too Regular Now?
Episode 14 - What Bikes Would Pinkbike Editors Buy?
Episode 15 - What's Holding Mountain Biking Back?
Episode 16 - Who's Your Mountain Biking Hero?
Episode 17 - XC Field Test Insider
Episode 18 - Electronics on your Mountain Bike: Good or Bad?
Episode 19 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 20 - MTB Conspiracy Theories
Episode 21 - Stuff We Were Wrong About
Episode 22 - Does Your Riding Style Match Your Personality?
Episode 23 - Grim Donut 2 is Live!
Episode 24 - Why Even Buy a DH Bike?
Episode 25 - Fall Field Test Preview
Episode 26 - The Three Most Important Mountain Bikes
Episode 27 - The World Champs Special
Episode 28 - All About Women's Bikes
Episode 29 - Freeride or Die
Episode 30 - Would You Rather?
Episode 31 - Wet Weather Riding Tips & Tricks
Episode 32 - What Needs to Change in the Bike Industry?
Episode 33 - Behind the Scenes at Pinkbike Academy
Episode 34 - Grilling Levy About Field Test Trail Bikes (and His Bonspiel)
Episode 35 - Story Time - Stranger Than Fiction
Episode 36 - Grilling Kazimer about Field Test Enduro Bikes
Episode 37 - The 2020 Privateer Season with Ben Cathro
Episode 38 - Editors Defend Their 2020 Best-Of Picks
Episode 39 - Predicting the Future of Mountain Biking
Episode 40 - The Pinkbike Awards!
Episode 41 - Racing Rumours and Team Changes
Episode 42 - Mountain Biking's Guilty Pleasures
Episode 43 - Dangerholm's Wildest Custom Mountain Bikes
Episode 44 - Mountain Bike Suspension Decoded
Episode 45 - What Makes a Good Riding Buddy
Episode 46 - The RockShox Zeb vs Fox 38 Deep Dive
Episode 47 - High Pivot Bikes: The Good, The Bad, and The Why?
Episode 48 - Rides That Went Horribly Wrong... & Why That Made Them So Good
Episode 49 - What's the Best DH Bike?
Episode 50 - Are Bikes Actually Getting Less Expensive? (Value Bike Field Test Preview)
Episode 51 - Should MTB Media Post Spy Shots?
Episode 52 - Our Most Embarrassing MTB Moments
Episode 53 - Should Climbers Still Have the Right of Way?
Episode 54 - Best and Worst MTB Product Marketing
Episode 55 - Big Dumb Rides & Staying Motivated
Episode 56 - What Were the Most Important Inventions in Mountain Biking?
Episode 57 - What Were the Best (and Worst) Trends in Mountain Biking?
Episode 58 - Debunking Mountain Biking's Biggest Myths
Episode 59 - Value Bike Field Trip Surprises & Spoilers
Episode 60 - What Kind of Mountain Biker Do You Want to Be?
Episode 61 - Athlete Pay, Lycra, Equality and More from the State of the Sport Survey
Episode 62 - Editor Preferences and Why They Matter
Episode 63 - Our Best (And Worst) Bike Buying Advice
Episode 64 - Who's On Your MTB Mount Rushmore?
Episode 65 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 66 - The Best and Worst of Repairing Bikes
Episode 67 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham
Episode 68 - Who Are Mountain Biking's Unsung Heroes?
Episode 69 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 1
Episode 70 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 2
Episode 71 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham - A Pinkbike Podcast Special, Part 2
Episode 72 - Hey Outers!
Episode 73 - The Details That Matter... and Some That Shouldn't
Episode 74 - The Best Trails We've Ridden and What Makes Them So Special
Episode 75 - Things MTB Brands Waste Money On
Episode 76 - MTB Originals and Copycats
Episode 77 - Interview with Outside CEO, Robin Thurston
Episode 78 - Modern Geometry Explained
Episode 79 - What's the Future of eMTBs?
Episode 80 - The Best Vehicles for Mountain Bikers
Episode 81 - You've Got Questions, We've (Maybe) Got Answers
Episode 82 - Behind the Scenes at Field Test
Episode 83 - Does Carbon Fiber Belong On Your Mountain Bike?
Episode 84 - Explaining RockShox's Computer Controlled Suspension
Episode 85 - Is the Red Bull Rampage Too Slopestyle?
Episode 86 - Greg Minnaar on the Honda DH Bike, World Cup Racing, and Staying Fast Forever
Episode 87 - How to Love Riding When it's Cold and Wet
Episode 88 - Mountain Biking on a Budget
Episode 89 - The Derailleur Pickle
Episode 90 - Is Supre the Future of Trouble-Free Drivetrains? (with Cedric Eveleigh of Lal Bikes)
Episode 91 - Riding Every Double Black in the Whistler Bike Park with Christina Chappetta
Episode 92 - Does Bike Weight Really Matter?
Episode 93 - Staying Motivated and Overcoming Burnout
Episode 94 - PBA Contestant Tori Wood on Her First Race and Finding the Right Mindset
Episode 95 - Field Test Down-Country Bike Debrief
Episode 96 - PBA Contestant Israel Carrillo on Riding in Mexico and Why It's Not Always About Speed
Episode 97 - Can We Predict the Future of Mountain Biking?
Episode 98 - Field Test Trail Bike Debrief
Episode 99 - New Year, New You?
Episode 100 - Q&A with the PB Editors
Episode 101 - MTB Tradeshows Explained


  • 209 6
 Should Pinkbike have paywall articles with no comment section?
  • 21 0
 We don’t need a whole podcast to answer that question…
  • 48 0
 I seems they think nobody buys Beta/Outside because they are under marketed. So I have a good news, after one day my attitude for Beta changed from "I give a sh*t" to "If I see one more Beta article link I will vomit". Congratulations.
  • 131 2
 I’ll look into having an option for people to hide Beta stories (the same way people can hide eMTB/XC/DH/etc. stories etc in their settings).
  • 72 9
 As an engineer with a bmx background, let me give you some career advice. The second a marketer/other MBA type has any control/say over your product design, whether that be a list of articles rendered on a page, or a physical product spec, it's over. The plane is heading into the ground, it's time to bail. People with 0 ability to bring anything to the world are doing the equivalent of tearing the copper wiring and plumbing out of your building to sell it for scrap. Time to move on to the next thing with the lesson learned.
  • 20 0
 @brianpark: “we have top men working on it right now…” - Brian Park
  • 9 0
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: all I heard is "BMX background". When is the shreddit dropping?
  • 23 8
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: a BMX background you say?
  • 112 4
 If an article exists behind a paywall, but nobody clicks on it, does the paywall exist?

Be safe be well,
Incognito Robin
  • 6 4
 What paywall? Everything loads just fine…
  • 18 1
 Yeah, it seems like a very counterproductive marketing move. Just makes beta and outside look bad. It looks like a desperation move to me, I wonder if Beta is circling the drain.
  • 18 0
 At least the Beta articles headlines are things I wouldn’t have clicked on even if they were free.
  • 25 1
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: Okay, serious question: Why do literally ALL engineers pre-qualify their statements with: "As an engineer..."
  • 11 0
 I really think they underestimate the extent to which people here will go to not click on this content. It doesn’t matter if it’s a joint McCaskill/Semenuk raw must-watch with Brage chopping wood in the mud. People here won’t click on it out of spite, just to give two middle fingers to Outside. They’re fighting a losing battle and really need to rethink their approach.
  • 11 4
 @Chadimac22: Ugh...reminds me of my CTO...we get it, you have no social skills!

Be safe be well,
Incognito Robin
  • 20 0
 @Chadimac22: As an engineer I would never say that.
  • 13 9
 @rickybobby18 Oh man, it sounds like we've got some stuff to talk about on the next podcast.
  • 6 0
 @Chadimac22: when they follow it up with BMX background I’m all ears
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: I did it with uBlock Origin
  • 31 0
 @mikelevy: So the plan emerges, I guess? Beta was already paywalled, so now Beta becomes the "member exclusive content" sub-brand of PB. I guess now we keep an eye on what gets the Beta tag; my expectation would be that over time better and better stuff ends up in that bin, 'till the free feed is all brand advertorials and things like group tests are paywalled. Prove me wrong!
  • 17 6
 All the hate about paywall aside...Beta has a great product. Articles have a totally different feel than PB and I really enjoy them...the physical magazine is also a nice touch...kinda like Freehub, just fun to sit and read a magazine cover to cover. Well worth the money IMO.
  • 9 6
 @MikeyMT: Yeah, if you live in US, otherwise why pay extra for printed Beta, if you cannot have it?
Honestly, if I pay someone, it will be Paul Aston or alike, not Robin, sorry.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Please do.
  • 8 4
 @lkubica: You're breaking my heart my friend. How can I convince you otherwise?

Be safe be well,
Incognito Robin
  • 18 4
 @TheR: I'm not sure if you are correct. Sure there are a bunch of people on the comments banging on about the beta links (myself included), but I'm willing to bet we are a vocal minority when compared to the volume of non commenting public that visits PB and are fine with the beta links. Take the Budget vs Baller videos that are really smashed in the PB comments. You would think it's going to be a failure. But look at the view numbers and comments on YouTube - It's was a complete success there.

Let's face it we are all acting like a bunch of angry gatekeepers! That said it makes for interesting reading in the comments.
  • 16 3
 @Drew-O: Beta was ~30% paywalled, it's now ~99% paywalled and they don't have to compete with the stuff that Pinkbike is doing. Pinkbike stays free and pretty much as it is, except you'll have to scroll past some Beta articles if you're not interested. I'll write a little update asap.
  • 7 3
 @IMeasureStuff: You're right in the sense that it won't be 100 percent. Some people who already have Outside+ accounts will click through. The vast majority of users here, though, not a chance. Outside needs to read the room here.
  • 9 5
 @TheR: You're clearly wrong. You think they are just making these decisions willy nilly? They know your (and everyones here) browsing patterns - and you give it to them by accepting their cookies policy - this is not complicated stuff, any digital marketing team worth their salt can track this stuff and make decisions on how to best cross-promote content. You think all those article compilation articles over the last 6 months were just a coincidence? lol...they are collecting data on you with every click you make, every comment you make then taking that data to push you to purchase...its just how the internet works.
  • 4 1
 @TheR: I know everyone worries about comments being killed...why on earth would they do that? You know how much free market research and insights they get from all of us in these comments...hell I'd venture there is a revenue stream in here in you found an interesting way to package 'user sentiment' on certain topics that could be sold to bike/product manufacturers. You should welcome the paywall...anything that is 'free' online simply means YOU and YOUR data are the product not the content you're consuming.
  • 2 0
 @unrooted: *slow clap*
  • 3 4
 @Chadimac22: Because the nerds somehow think we'll take them seriously. But we don't. Because they're nerds.
  • 10 2
 @MikeyMT: Oh yes, our almighty overlord, the a l g o r i t h m..

Nah, I agree with @TheR Sure, PB can use data collected to make a *best guess* on how to roll something out, but that does not automatically mean that it will be successful. It's been said dozens of times--what makes PB is the comments section, followed by the buy/sell, followed by PB staff personalities. I don't want to watch Levy shuckin' and jivin' his way through some scripted advertorial, and I think Kaz would rather ride gravel before having to do so. Commentors called out when Chapetta did a Trek comparison when she's sponsored by Trek.. even though it was literally marked as a Trek advertisement.

People can spot BS. Sneaky shoehorning of an Outside+ brand into PB leaves a bad taste for some, and at least does not go unnoticed for others.
  • 5 1
 @Chadimac22: they need to know that we know they are an engineer and that they are better than us.
  • 7 0
 @brianpark: If Pinkbike essentially stays how it is I think a lot of people will stand down with their pitch forks. Right now there is clearly a justifiable huge fear it's about to dissappear behind a paywall. It's an almost unique site in the world of MTB in that the active chats and comments are seen as important as the article its self. A Paywall would mean you rip the soul out of what makes Pinkbike great.
  • 2 0
 @MikeyMT: If they are monitoring all the comments, how could they possibly think people are going to click through? Stevie Wonder can see the overwhelming response. I could be wrong, of course, but in this case I don’t think so.

As for all the other stuff you’re talking about, it’s unrelated to this particular point. That’s not what I’m discussing.
  • 4 0
 By putting beta stuff on pb it does make us all mad and thus gets pb more clicks and more comments... It's like super liberal or conservative news outlets using clickbaity headlines designed to make people outraged and thus interested. Same for articles like henry saying that internal routing and more proprietary parts is better, it gets hate clicks. It's gross but it works, I mean here we are commenting on it.
  • 2 1
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: only trust engineers with the right backgrounds
  • 7 2
 @kcy4130: Bingo. Also let me all clicked the Beta link 'just in case' right? lol. Its working...vocal minority will always be mad about something. The analogy is bros complaining about ski tickets being too think Vail wants your and your cheap ass buddies that drink PBRs in the parking lot there in the first place, lol.
  • 17 12
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: As an MBA with a mtb/motorsports background who runs a gigantic capital program in an engineering heavy industry, let me give you some career advice. The second an engineer type has any control over your product aesthetic or implementation plan or overall management of steering that initiative forward, its over. The plane is heading into the ground, its time to bail. People with 0 ability to be able to describe something in layman's terms, coordinate with other silo'd departments and people they would need to rely on as stakeholders to get the task completed, or have any ability to interact with others as a normal human being, are doing the equivalent of drawing up 50 iterations of plans to tear out copper wiring and plumbing, and never be able to sell it because they can't actually get anything moving. Time to move on to the next thing with the lesson learned.
  • 2 1
 @brianpark: At least they haven't put a padlock icon on the article to rub it in your face like over at Velonews...... YET.
  • 1 1
 @Sweatypants: shots fired
  • 12 10
 @rickybobby18: I mean... he asked for it. As a single group, there is no one more socially inept and awkward/oblivious to the actual business running, than a group of engineers. And the few that actually CAN do both and are personable and business oriented, end up either becoming the chief engineer of whatever their field/dept. is, or they start a consulting firm or their own business. All the other ones sit in a cube like a weirdo for 20 years surrounded by piles of schematics and design drawings, and look like somebody that might get caught masturbating in a trench coat in a public park on a Wednesday.

Anecdotally with race cars and motorbikes, never in my life, have I seen a more meticulous people, that will build something so mechanically amazing and top notch, and then tear it all down and totally redo the engine setup or suspension design/geometry 15 times, before they'll just spend the couple hundred bucks and powdercoat their wheels one single color so it actually looks like a decent, finished car and not some scrap heap... than engineers.

The two sides compliment each other most times, not recognizing this goes back to the "socially inept" part above. At least have some introspection about yourself and what you do and what you don't do.
  • 4 1
 @Sweatypants: *Grizzly Adams Nodding*
  • 3 1
 Every time I see "Photo Essay" Beta mtb Link it reminds me of similar articles we used to see here but now all that's going to be at Beta MTB now.
  • 7 0
 @Sweatypants: You sound like the type that puts fancy rims on a race car to distract people from the fact that the engine keeps overheating and the handling is dangerously awful cause it's only half tested. But seriously, it obviously takes both types. Companies are ruined when one type tries to do the job of the other. Engineers want to test and design for every possible contingency, the ones that lack confidence often take this too far and cost too much time/money. Basically engineers want to design and sell products that will last for years, be repairable, and have inexpensive wear parts/consumables. This means more design/testing time and thus slightly higher up front costs. Business types want products that look good, sell well, breakdown early/often for more replacement parts sales, then catastrophically fail early to lead to more sales of new units. This is why engineers and consumers hate business majors, because they put the short term profit margins of a company above long term survival/profit margins of the company. Well anyways, I'm off to the park in my trench coat, have a nice day.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: An engineer with a bmx background completely eroded my trust in his professional work. I’ve seen too many “repairs” performed with precision tools like hammers, vans slip-one’s and hitting rims against hard objects to straighten for me to trust that combination. Maybe he’s in demolitions.
  • 2 3
 @kcy4130: no, I'm the type that finishes a job completely, instead of getting 90% of the way there and giving up at the last minute then changing my mind a million times because I have brain spiders. Personally its just annoying to my OCD tendencies. But I agree with you, it def takes both. Companies need the the product to perform well, they also need somebody to sell the product, handle the customer service, plan for and handle the money, etc...

The motorcycle industry is by far the WORST offender of any of that. There are so many mega talented welders and fab dudes that have zero business, actually running a business, and they're terrible at it, and it hurts their name, and product, and future profitability. Seen it so many times I couldn't even tell you.

Also, I've never wanted planned obsolesce, I'd say most "business types" do not want that. I DO want something that doesn't experience 4 months of delays for redo's to the spec drawings though, and something that doesn't sit in procurement for 12 months when it should have been 2 because nobody followed up on it, and something that does pay the contractor an extra 20% in inefficiency claims because an engineer forgot to coordinate materials or resources properly. Those would do just fine in my dream world. Enjoy the park!
  • 4 0
 @Chadimac22: probably the same reason I usually start off unsolicited advice with " I'm no engineer, but"
  • 1 0
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: this is exactly what is playing out at Arc'teryx right now
  • 1 0
 @GorgeousBeauGaston: This homie thinks he's Steve
  • 3 0
 @kcy4130: not to be overly rude to them but they failed as a business as Bike not too long ago and nothing really has changed so its not hard to imagine history repeating itself
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: wait, what? I can hide eMTB content?! I’ve stumbled around and can’t those settings. Any pointers on where to look? I’m on mobile.
  • 1 0
 @Krackity-Jones: step 1: change to desktop view.

Step 2: click around until you figure it out.
  • 31 0
 When I visit Pinkbike I see a long list of articles, some of them I read, and some of them I don't. Sometimes I lay in bed awake, wondering if the articles I didn't read were written in spite, by people who hate me and want to steal everything from my life. I wonder if they realize how much they hurt my feelings, or if they understand the daily sacrifices I make by coming to this website and reading a bunch of stuff for free.

Thanks Mike & the rest of the team for writing the articles that I read. I plan to continue reading some, but not all, of Pinkbike's stuff.
  • 8 0
 Ha, you're welcome. Thank you for your sacrifice.
  • 31 5
 Paywall articles have begun. The beginning of the end.
  • 22 0
 Levy: "This one time, at press camp, I put some Tim it's into my swatbox."
  • 10 0
 *Timbits..... the disrespect.......
  • 3 0
 Haha swatbox
  • 14 0
 @dairydolores: ugh. At least I caught the auto correct to 'sweatbox' before I posted.
  • 31 1
 Unfortunately, most bike brands don't hold their press camps near any Tim locations due to extremely poor planning and misplaced priorities.
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: sounds like you need to open a Tims near the next press camp
  • 6 0
 As one of the many Tim's in the world, I'm not sure how I feel about it.
  • 11 0
 Sorry, did someone mention me and my box, I wasn't really listening?
  • 1 0
 @bigtim: It was your bits actually Tim.
  • 32 13
 Can I get this f-ing Beta Garbage off my feed? Really not happy how the Outside merger is going. I already have to deal with this big dumb white banner taking up the top of my screen
  • 35 14
 Is there a category above 'first world problems'? Asking for a friend.
  • 6 14
flag clapped-out-46 (Feb 3, 2022 at 19:36) (Below Threshold)
 @mikekazimer: It's in the same category that has mechanics to tighten slayer axles.
  • 5 2
 Independent mountain bike media lost a big player when outside knocked on the door.
  • 24 4
  • 13 0
 From all the podcasts where journos talk about press camps.
It seems they have no real value or relevance beyond reconnecting with old friends and getting a holiday.

You hear that the bikes/product are talked about over a seminar/sales pitch. Then the next day you all have about 20-30mins to ride a poorly setup bike on trails you dont know. Then go home and type something for the "magazine" to sell the thing. And that your opinion is skewed, as a too damning write-up will not see you with future invites.

Ps paywall sucks. Whether it's $1 or $10 the barrier of entry managing another subscription is a pita.
The excitiment of seeing a real article typed up and not just a shared video, quickly vanished.
Send my apologies to Martin Whitely that I couldn't read his piece on uci teams.
  • 1 0
 I’ve been at a trailhead in pemberton while a bunch of editors were attending some type of press camp for Giro….the only people there who seemed the slightest bit happy to be there was the people who were obviously working for Giro. It doesn’t seem like a good way to get a fair write up about the products if the editors don’t even appear to be having a good time.
  • 9 0
 That's the gist of it, but I do think that press camps can be mined for some really good content. The engineers who designed the bike (or product) are on hand, so it is a chance to get unique information that wouldn't show up in a press release, but I can't stand seeing bold declarations about a bike's performance after three hours of riding it on some boring trails that took ten hours to fly to Smile
  • 7 0
 @unrooted: To be fair, we often have a ton of fun at press camps. I mean, it is riding bikes after all.
  • 5 0
 Apology accepted!
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: to be fair, this experience of mine was during Crankworx, so I’m sure the journo’s were a bit worn out….so it didn’t look like they were excited to ride their bikes.

I was also taken aback because it was the least friendly trailhead I had ever encountered in, at the time, 26 years of riding.
  • 1 0
 @captain23: I folded.
The temptation to have some long-form written articles over shreddits had me lay down my $24 for the year.

So far I'm impressed with Beta's articles and their spread of topics.
  • 16 0
 Sounds like a lot of these are depress camps!
  • 6 0
  • 18 4
 What about the sneaky "Still in service" headline in the middle of the rest of topics, taking you outside to beta to check paid review? Who the hell pays for pedals review?
  • 30 36
flag mikelevy Mod (Feb 3, 2022 at 12:36) (Below Threshold)
 I mean, just don't click on it?
  • 5 1
 @mikelevy: Is it possible, they hate paywalls MORE than I hate E-bikes?? Naaaaah
  • 6 2
 @Moonie2123: It's likely they hate paywalls even more than I hate e-bikes.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: I will remember this for next time!
  • 12 0
 @mikelevy Episode idea! MTB youtubers, the good, the bad, and the ugly. How has youtube platformed change the sport, the industry/marketing side, and the community? Also - y'alls favorite MTB youtubers? Things you hate youtubers doing.
  • 8 2
 For sure. I've got some YouTuber guests coming up as well for interview podcasts Smile
  • 13 26
flag wobblegoblin (Feb 3, 2022 at 9:25) (Below Threshold)
 @mikelevy: I’d love to hear Kyle Warner talk about his (very rare issues) health problems from the Covid Vaccine.
  • 8 1
 I hate YouTubers making heavily promoted "shedits" or whatever on illegal but tolerated trails with sensitive landowners who get upset by the publicity. There are some YouTubers in the sth of England who defiantly seem to put self interest before the interests of the local riding community.
  • 5 0
 On that same note, how Strava changed the sport/trails. Kind of a chicken vs the egg thing, but in general it's now more about the fastest line and not necessarily hanging out and sessioning features with your buddies.
  • 2 0
 @subwaypanda: Any examples?
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: I hope one of them is Hardtailparty! Competent rider, yet probably not quite an enduro bro, I feel like he does a good job relating to a lot of us average riders. His input on geo vs fork travel has informed some of my recent purchases.. I'd definitely listen if you guys sat down to shoot the sh*t for a while.
  • 2 5
 @subwaypanda: oh get over it. stop being a subject, and start being a citizen.

demand access. don't ask.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: the guy from Toronto that does LoveMTB is amazing. His videos are short and to the point and always answers the questions I have in my head.

Cheers guys, cheers.
  • 11 0
 Can you please let people comment on the Beta articles.....They dont read most PB articles before commenting so why not let me, I mean them, do it on the Beta ones.... asking for a friend.
  • 7 1
 We're trying to add comments to the Beta website.
  • 21 8
 Hide this paywall crap. This is a huge fuck up and massive BETA move
  • 3 0
 I think it's all Outside related, case in point Outside now owns Velo News and every Velo News article I try to read I get pay walled so I just I just leave
  • 9 0
 How do you block this beta paid article link shite that is now on the pinkbike news page.
  • 6 0
 On the disclaimer subject: It should be an ethical consideration, not an informational one. It's about voluntary transparency. Obviously anybody who's paying attention knows that brands are going to try to get journalists to try their product, and spending money on it to make that experience favorable. but when you make it clear that the article was written while being schmoozed by the brand by providing a disclaimer, you forestall any claims that you were influenced by the brand, and were hiding that fact.

It can also be a huge public service: If PB posts a "meh" impression of a new bike, with a disclaimer that it was at a press camp, and somebody else posts an absolutely glowing impression at the same time, but doesn't acknowledge the press camp, it helps the reader understand which outlets are beign honest. You guys have talked about there being some "shillnalists" out there in a few previous podcasts, this is a step you can take to actively hurt the ability of those people to pretend to be unbiased.
  • 3 0
 Agreed, those are great points.
  • 6 0
 I know it isn't a gripe about paywalls, but I'll say that everyone on the podcast sounds like a bunch of doctors. The reason? Unconscious bias.
They say "Nope, I don't have any bias after accepting a cool trip/experience/large bar tab from said company."
The issue is that even if you think you aren't being influenced, you are. A physician accepts a pen from a drug rep and is more likely to write a prescription for that medicine. The physician will tell you they are not influenced because they are so well educated they couldn't be influenced, but the data does not lie - many studies have shown this to be an issue - even if they only get a pen!
Hubris indeed if you think a trip doesn't influence how your thoughts, beliefs and articles are altered afterwards
  • 1 0
 Definitely a thing. And one good reason to not “review” bikes at press camps.
  • 10 1
 pinkbike for bikers, Outside for dentists...
  • 8 0
 Comical the first paywall/beta article is a whitely article, at least do a pay worthy article.
  • 5 2
 Wow, grasping for content eh? JK, but not JK about - where's the podcast on 1) Henry's Northern Lights Magical Mystery Tour 2021 Plus How He Met a Lady That May or May Not Be His New "Lady Friend" and/or 2) Henry's Ridiculous Sayings So Far (or homepage link)...that should be a cumulative thing. I'm sure there's plenty of other content, but damn, give Henry the mic for an hour and let him rant about that Shroom Sideways event & we'll all be happier, just mention bikes here & there.

Oh, you convinced me that aliens actually do exist @mikelevy - and we are them. Who could possibly be more high-tech for their primate boots and not only know less (individually and collectively) about the very planet that sustains us or how to actually live on it without having a tantrum than - humans? The most alien being to ever live on earth....
  • 7 0
 Beta... pay ME, or I won't read your trivia,
  • 3 0
 That sounds so POC.
Stockholm have so much good mtb trails, some of which have very good potential to really test the riders protection.
And they put you on a lame RIB "shake the fillings put of your teeth" "sightseeing" and some glamping.
They say you can never be a prophet at home so maybe I'm biased, but I really don't appreciate POCs marketing. They are not swedish owned anymore anyway, sod off.
  • 7 0
 I'm just here for the paywall comments
  • 5 2
 Hey everyone, here’s an idea… how about we do more than complain about the changes to pb? Maybe we can all pick a day a day to not visit pb every week? Maybe throwback Thursday until they at least engage us in a conversation about the planned changes?
  • 4 0
 We talk about the changes a lot on the podcast and do answer plenty of questions in the comment section Wink
  • 4 1
 @mikelevy: like the random introduction of beta articles?

What’s the roadmap?

What is going to be paywalled?

Is there a mechanism to have the data we have to pb removed from outsides database?

Where is the awesome content beta promised?

If there was ever a time waki was needed.
  • 3 1
 @mikelevy: maybe hold an AMA and be honest?

I remember talking to one of your devs about Trailforks during that acquisition and boy-howdy has this strayed from the vision.
  • 14 0
 @mgrantorser: I'm sure it's not "random" to those who are planning these things, which isn't me, but I can try to get answers for you in the next podcast. The Beta articles aren't taking anything away from Pinkbike or the content we deliver - they're an addition - so I just don't see the fuss about it, especially as nothing made by or for PB is behind a paywall. Speaking of what we deliver, we've got more employees making more and better content than ever before, and none of it is behind a paywall.

I understand some of your concern - this has become a community to a lot of people and change can suck - but I've been working here A LOT longer than the large majority of users who are posting accusatory comments like yours about the possible changes to Pinkbike, so put yourself in my shoes. If you think we haven't been honest, you always have the option of not coming here. We share what we know when we know it.
  • 2 1
 @mikelevy: WE. DON’T. LIKE. CHANGE.
  • 7 0
 @mikelevy: First up, I know you guys are probably also at the mercy of Outside and their parent company. Please dont think my comments are actually directed at you personally. I've been on here since '07, so not new to the party (you've got me by 2 years). While I do think you have an unreasonable love for srams weak ass drivetrain, in general I value your opinion on all other things bike related, and have to give you credit for some pretty cool impact on the industry as a whole.

Re the sale, it did feel like we as a community were taken advantage of/misled in the lead up. The survey on socioeconomics and buying habits which was posted the week before the sale is something I would never have filled out for the benefit of a US hedge fund. That was underhanded as the sale had to be a done deal by then. For an oddball canadian company, f*ck yeah, take my data, sell to me, but their shareholders can go kick rocks. I was also totally down with the trailforks plus accounts, despite having had a convo with a dev while mapping trails during beta re keeping it free as a gift to the community that made PB what it is. Again, servers cost, no problem, bought my premium membership like so many others.

Looked at in hind sight, this, plus the cycling tips purchase and so many other things were clearly laying the groundwork for the sale, and as a long standing community member, it feels really crappy. PB is one of the last places I know of on the internet that still has the internet 1.0 flavour - just a community of kooks who were the customers, instead of a product that wealth is extracted from for a faceless shareholder. The comments section hasnt been infiltrated by nazis, and you can still make an offside joke within reason. For what its worth, I think you guys all deserve a pay day (hope you got yours), and I would have been happy to pay a membership or whatever keep PB independent, while ensuring you could all to afford cars made this century with airbags and a back seat and sized for an adult. I bet a lot of other users here would have too.

Regardless, the sale happened, I know this place cant keep being what it was, but gods do I hope it doesnt turn into what facebook has. The unannounced changes, the ominous statements that some content will always be free, and the lack of clarity or direction do not help anything. I think I (and I expect a lot of other folks) would love to have the Outside admins come in and do an AMA. After all, we are the product they sell to their shareholders, and while my 2 second ineffectual attempt at organizing isnt going to change anything, without the users this site is worthless. If things continue and NSMB or someone else puts a little effort in people will leave. It would be cool if outside could give all the frogs a little heads up re just how hot the water is going to get.
  • 7 5
 Should Doctors be allowed to get their continuing education credits from pharmaceutical companies?

Should we trust what media companies tell us when they have a story about a product from one of their advertisers?

Should I only buy products if the only research I’ve done is read their companies websites information about the product?

Should I only give my daughter what she wants to eat?
  • 5 0
 It's February - where is the article for the top comments of 2021? Behind a paywal?
  • 2 0
 E-Bike etiquette- ask to pass when climbing and wait for a good place to overtake, just like a ‘regular’ bike.

But here’s where things get weird. If you stop and take a break after passing, and then pass again, and do that like 3-4 times on a climb it will get old and the rider working their butt off on the regular bike will get tired of this.

Also, if you’re slower on the DH, please get the heck over for the more skilled rider on the ‘normal’ bike, especially if they were nice enough to let you pass one or more times on the climb.

That’s it. Thanks!
  • 4 0
 Are press camps like band camp? If yes, then you should definitely be going.
  • 2 0
 Specialized also have a lot of repair work in house now as far as wheels, suspension etc with a 48h "guarantied" turn around. Curious to see how that will cut some local shop work also
  • 3 0
 I must of missed something, where did the Specialized 48hour guarantee come from? Was this included in the new direct to consumer model released last week? This is for warranty parts, not repairs I assume?
  • 1 0
 @JDFF: yes warranty and service parts like suspension or wheels. I read about the 48h a while ago. May not be as “garantied” now days
  • 1 0
 @redmountaingoat: thanks. As much as I don't want to admit it, Specialized has been one of the best in dealing with warranty claims. Just wasn't aware of the ambitious goal of 48 hours. To me, two weeks seems reasonable.
  • 1 0
 @JDFF: i looked again and the 48h is for the brain shock service
  • 1 0
 @redmountaingoat: ha! Interesting. Definitely not one to know much about the Brain Shock. Good follow up.
  • 1 0
 As a journalist (not an engineer), I'd say yes - definitely disclose paid trips associated with product launches.
As well as transparency generally being good, it gives the reader insight into how the bike industry works and an understanding of the limitations of what they're reading.
On the question of should press camps even exist - probably not for various reasons.
Not least because of the clueless write-ups which follow them on some MTB media outlets. Some of which I suspect "pay" their contributors with review gear and free trips.
Perhaps you also thought that, but didn't want to "punch down" by saying it?
  • 1 0
 Rather than a disclaimer. I think that a document or manifesto linked permanently on the home page. It would explains the review, first ride process as well as separation of advertising and editorial would answer a lot of peoples questions.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark ref the comparison to the motor industry press launches, I listen to a lot of motoring podcasts too and stories of the extravagant glory days, they are very much over. Be interested to hear if there are other parallels with the media side, people demanding bikes to test on specific dates like the influencer demanding a car from BMW because they had a weekend away. Or brands being very particular about thier bikes for tests, especially group tests, for example Ferrari and McLaren sending engineers with cars to locations versus Porsche dropping the car off and asking for it back in the same condition.
  • 1 0
 If it can reassure Levy, I'm sure John got to watch plenty of people cartwheel themselves and bikes over the years and some of them might have ended up being supercross/motocross champs...
  • 1 0
 see top of browser:

"Pinkbike is now part of Outside! As of December 3, 2021, please refer to the Outside Terms of Use and Privacy Policy which govern your use of the Pinkbike website and services."
  • 3 0
 Can't wait for the Lachlan Morton interview! One of the heroes.
  • 3 0
 Where's the fake press camp invite? @brianpark
  • 2 3
 Press camps are payola. Always have been, always will be. Get the budget to throw yourself a party while bribing the magazines for a good review.

Ah, are you guys still under the impression that any of this is on the up-and-up? Is that why you're so mad about someone else cutting the checks with the Outside thing? They're so good at it they get the writers to defend them. Come on! Nobody writes this shit for free.

It's Squid Pro Quo. Accept it and move on. Free yourselves!
  • 2 0
 This is the kind of content i live for......
  • 1 0
 If you feel you shouldn't be attending these press camps, send me a plane ticket... I'll do it for you..
  • 1 0
 Southern Bavaria is a nice place....don't bash that place;-)
  • 2 0
 It's so nice, I can't wait to go back.
  • 1 0
 Press camp? Is that like band camp?
  • 1 0
 @brianpark where is the joke press release? I need to see this
  • 1 0
 wheres the joke email!!!!!!!!!?
  • 2 2
 Paywall? No problem, just get rid of the vocal fry in the podcast first.
  • 5 6
 The era of pinkbike is over. Time to move our quality content and quality comments to reddit. r/mtb r/hardtailgang anyone?
  • 2 0
 Reddit is cancer.
  • 1 1
 More paywall pleases!! Clean this place up
  • 1 1

Copyright © 2000 - 2023. All rights reserved.
dv65 0.071450
Mobile Version of Website