The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 114 - The Placebo Effect and Your New Mountain Bike

Apr 7, 2022
by Mike Levy  
Pinkbike Podcast
Art by Taj Mihelich


Is that new bike better... Or do you just want to believe that it's better? Bikes and components are (mostly) improving every year, but that doesn't mean that everything new is automatically superior, or that whatever you've bought is going to make you a better rider. Then again, if you believe that your new fork or expensive tires are allowing you to go faster, then maybe you'll be going faster, so who cares?

Today's show sees Kazimer, Palmer, Henry, and I talk about the placebo effect, new bikes and gear, and some of the strategies we employ to not let our brains be tricked.





THE PINKBIKE PODCAST // EPISODE 114 - THE PLACEBO EFFECT AND NEW MOUNTAIN BIKES
April 7th, 2022

"There's no stopping me now that I've got my new bike!"


Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.


Previous Pinkbike Podcasts
Episode 1 - Why Are Bikes So Expensive?
Episode 2 - Where the Hell is the Grim Donut?
Episode 3 - Pond Beaver Tech
Episode 4 - Why is Every Bike a Trail Bike?
Episode 5 - Can You Trust Bike Reviews?
Episode 6 - Over Biked Or Under Biked?
Episode 7 - Wild Project Bikes
Episode 8 - Do We Need an Even Larger Wheel Size?
Episode 9 - Why Are We Doing a Cross-Country Field Test?
Episode 10 - Getting Nerdy About Bike Setup
Episode 11 - Are We Going Racing This Year?
Episode 12 - What's the Future of Bike Shops?
Episode 13 - Are Bikes Too Regular Now?
Episode 14 - What Bikes Would Pinkbike Editors Buy?
Episode 15 - What's Holding Mountain Biking Back?
Episode 16 - Who's Your Mountain Biking Hero?
Episode 17 - XC Field Test Insider
Episode 18 - Electronics on your Mountain Bike: Good or Bad?
Episode 19 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 20 - MTB Conspiracy Theories
Episode 21 - Stuff We Were Wrong About
Episode 22 - Does Your Riding Style Match Your Personality?
Episode 23 - Grim Donut 2 is Live!
Episode 24 - Why Even Buy a DH Bike?
Episode 25 - Fall Field Test Preview
Episode 26 - The Three Most Important Mountain Bikes
Episode 27 - The World Champs Special
Episode 28 - All About Women's Bikes
Episode 29 - Freeride or Die
Episode 30 - Would You Rather?
Episode 31 - Wet Weather Riding Tips & Tricks
Episode 32 - What Needs to Change in the Bike Industry?
Episode 33 - Behind the Scenes at Pinkbike Academy
Episode 34 - Grilling Levy About Field Test Trail Bikes (and His Bonspiel)
Episode 35 - Story Time - Stranger Than Fiction
Episode 36 - Grilling Kazimer about Field Test Enduro Bikes
Episode 37 - The 2020 Privateer Season with Ben Cathro
Episode 38 - Editors Defend Their 2020 Best-Of Picks
Episode 39 - Predicting the Future of Mountain Biking
Episode 40 - The Pinkbike Awards!
Episode 41 - Racing Rumours and Team Changes
Episode 42 - Mountain Biking's Guilty Pleasures
Episode 43 - Dangerholm's Wildest Custom Mountain Bikes
Episode 44 - Mountain Bike Suspension Decoded
Episode 45 - What Makes a Good Riding Buddy
Episode 46 - The RockShox Zeb vs Fox 38 Deep Dive
Episode 47 - High Pivot Bikes: The Good, The Bad, and The Why?
Episode 48 - Rides That Went Horribly Wrong... & Why That Made Them So Good
Episode 49 - What's the Best DH Bike?
Episode 50 - Are Bikes Actually Getting Less Expensive? (Value Bike Field Test Preview)
Episode 51 - Should MTB Media Post Spy Shots?
Episode 52 - Our Most Embarrassing MTB Moments
Episode 53 - Should Climbers Still Have the Right of Way?
Episode 54 - Best and Worst MTB Product Marketing
Episode 55 - Big Dumb Rides & Staying Motivated
Episode 56 - What Were the Most Important Inventions in Mountain Biking?
Episode 57 - What Were the Best (and Worst) Trends in Mountain Biking?
Episode 58 - Debunking Mountain Biking's Biggest Myths
Episode 59 - Value Bike Field Trip Surprises & Spoilers
Episode 60 - What Kind of Mountain Biker Do You Want to Be?
Episode 61 - Athlete Pay, Lycra, Equality and More from the State of the Sport Survey
Episode 62 - Editor Preferences and Why They Matter
Episode 63 - Our Best (And Worst) Bike Buying Advice
Episode 64 - Who's On Your MTB Mount Rushmore?
Episode 65 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 66 - The Best and Worst of Repairing Bikes
Episode 67 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham
Episode 68 - Who Are Mountain Biking's Unsung Heroes?
Episode 69 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 1
Episode 70 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 2
Episode 71 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham - A Pinkbike Podcast Special, Part 2
Episode 72 - Hey Outers!
Episode 73 - The Details That Matter... and Some That Shouldn't
Episode 74 - The Best Trails We've Ridden and What Makes Them So Special
Episode 75 - Things MTB Brands Waste Money On
Episode 76 - MTB Originals and Copycats
Episode 77 - Interview with Outside CEO, Robin Thurston
Episode 78 - Modern Geometry Explained
Episode 79 - What's the Future of eMTBs?
Episode 80 - The Best Vehicles for Mountain Bikers
Episode 81 - You've Got Questions, We've (Maybe) Got Answers
Episode 82 - Behind the Scenes at Field Test
Episode 83 - Does Carbon Fiber Belong On Your Mountain Bike?
Episode 84 - Explaining RockShox's Computer Controlled Suspension
Episode 85 - Is the Red Bull Rampage Too Slopestyle?
Episode 86 - Greg Minnaar on the Honda DH Bike, World Cup Racing, and Staying Fast Forever
Episode 87 - How to Love Riding When it's Cold and Wet
Episode 88 - Mountain Biking on a Budget
Episode 89 - The Derailleur Pickle
Episode 90 - Is Supre the Future of Trouble-Free Drivetrains? (with Cedric Eveleigh of Lal Bikes)
Episode 91 - Riding Every Double Black in the Whistler Bike Park with Christina Chappetta
Episode 92 - Does Bike Weight Really Matter?
Episode 93 - Staying Motivated and Overcoming Burnout
Episode 94 - PBA Contestant Tori Wood on Her First Race and Finding the Right Mindset
Episode 95 - Field Test Down-Country Bike Debrief
Episode 96 - PBA Contestant Israel Carrillo on Riding in Mexico and Why It's Not Always About Speed
Episode 97 - Can We Predict the Future of Mountain Biking?
Episode 98 - Field Test Trail Bike Debrief
Episode 99 - New Year, New You?
Episode 100 - Q&A with the PB Editors
Episode 101 - MTB Tradeshows Explained
Episode 102 - Should MTB Media Be Going to Press Camps?
Episode 103 - Secrets from the World Cup Pits with Henry Quinney
Episode 104 - Lachlan Morton on How to be a Happy Bike Racer and the World's Longest Climb
Episode 105 - The 3 Bike Budget Challenge
Episode 106 - What's Your Ideal Ride Look Like?
Episode 107 - How (And Why) Did You Start Mountain Biking?
Episode 108 - Behind the Scenes at the Value Bike Field Test
Episode 109 - Berm Peak's Seth Alvo on Making Videos 24/7, Soul Rides, and Building a Bike Park
Episode 110 - Trying (and Failing) to Reinvent the Mountain Bike
Episode 111 - The Pinkbike Racing Podcast: Episode #1 - It's All Downhill From Here
Episode 112 - The Pinkbike Racing Podcast: Episode #2 - The Lourdes World Cup Post-Race Wrap-Up
Episode 113 - PB Editors Answer Your Questions (again)

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68 Comments
  • 18 0
 I often feel really goofy the first few rides out on a new bike while I get the suspension and cockpit dialled. It endss up making the bike feel worse for me. Except for shifting. Shifting is always better on a new bike.
  • 4 1
 "I often feel really goofy...". Well, stop changing bikes every two months then ;-) !
  • 17 1
 Thanks for talking through the 11/12 speed convo! Definitely not trying to beat a dead horse, but having used a 28t chainring with my 10-42t 11 speed cassette for a while, I wonder why more people with 11 speed cassette's don't downsize to a 30 or 28t chainring to accomplish the climbing gear they want. My gripe with the word "range" is only when using it to describe how easy or hard a bike is to climb, because that is not dependent on range, its dependent on climbing ratio. The 12 speed cassettes happen to have a better climbing ratio AND range. Range can and should be used to reference the range of the cassette which is just that, but the climbing ratio is heavily dependent on the chainring size as well. But I do think it is an interesting thing to talk about, since an 11 speed drivetrain can be lighter, cheaper, similar range, but they are not often seen as a good spec, and I understand that. That being said, I am likely using GX 12 speed on my new bike but I would love to see Sram or Shimano put out a high spec 10/11 speed cassette with 500% range. I personally don't need 12 gears, I guess I am not as picky about cadence as some are! Okay I got my rant out, I'll shut up about it now. Thanks boys!
  • 6 1
 Because lots of people like to ride really fast on their bikes while pedaling as well. The range that works for you depends on where you ride and what you like doing on a bike. Having strictly lower gears as you propose would mean that you run out of gears on the top end. Gear ranges are a bit too narrow right now in my opinion. We need to be closer to 6:1 for general usage total coverage. That's really not very feasible without dropping to a 9-tooth small cog, which the engineers seem to avoid for a reason, or a stupidly large cassette and derailleur. The bigger range is really what I'm looking forward to on someone figuring out gearboxes well enough.
  • 5 0
 @Explodo: If I'm riding fast enough to spin out my 32:11, it's downhill on pavement and I'm perfectly happy to accept that as a speed cap. Meanwhile my 32:46 is low enough that if I need another gear, I'd be falling over anyway. (On that end I do see an argument for going a little lower for extended steep climbs, but I don't personally want it). I think most of us have all the range we need... But it does depend on your terrain, those of us with steep hills can probably get away with a narrower range as we aren't pedalling on the downs.
  • 4 0
 @Explodo: Yup, that's definitely valid. I rarely top out my 10t cog with a 28t cassette, but that is definitely terrain dependent, a lot of my riding is steep tight tech. That being said, a 10-42T 11 speed cassette has very similar range to an 11-50t NX 12 speed cassette but nobody is complaining about the range of NX 12 speed.
  • 3 0
 @Explodo: I've been running one of the e13 9-50 cassettes with a 28t chainring, and I love it. The 9 does impart a weird vibration/ pulse to the chain, but it doesn't really bother me for the small amount of time I'm in it compared to the time I spend in that 28-50 combo.
  • 1 0
 @AndrewHornor: I was just looking at a Sea Otter preview and If you look at the hills in the Sea Otter area you can see that there are probably lots of trails around there where you can spin out on 32:10. The preview actually looks like it could be fun in a flat-out-hauling-ass sort of way. It almost looks like they had to add the jumps to keep speeds in check.
  • 1 0
 @Explodo: yeah, I can see that - if you are looking at xc racing or even just that style of riding, with light wheels and fast tires then my experience on a trail bike is totally irrelevant.
  • 3 0
 I’m going SRAM 12 speed from 11 and my new 52T XX1 cassette is noticeably heavier than my 11 speed XO! I was surprised..
But, did Slickrock Trail in Moab backwards a few years ago with my 1x11 and got my ass kicked by my friends on rented bikes with 12 gears. There was nothing I could do, they were seated and I was having to stand every climb! That sucked, and ruined me for the rest of the weekend.
I was running a 30 tooth chainwheel. A 28T would mean I’d top out on flat pavement. 12 gears it is..
  • 3 0
 Totally agree with going to a 30t or 28t chainring on a 11sp. I've found the 11 speed Shimano has better durability than the 12 speed stuff I've tried and much much better durability per dollar spent. When I wear out my GX 12sp I'm going back to 11sp XT for the same weight and less than half the price. If I lived in big mountains and I needed to pedal down fireroads, 12 speed might be beneficial, but I almost never use the top 2 gears unless I'm on asphalt.
  • 12 3
 But, But.. The only thing holding me back from ALL the Strava KOM's on my local trail is that my reach is 10mm too short, hta is .5 deg too steep, and chain stays are 5mm to short! I am a 190lb fine tuned machine! My old bike is the final piece of the puzzle that's been holding me back!!! Once I get this new bike, it will be perfect, geometry has plateaued, I'll never need a new bike again!!!
  • 3 0
 I think it depends on the jump, from a 2020 frame to a 2022 frame, probably not a difference. I went from 2 2013 bikes to a 2021 bike and the difference was huge. Much more stable, bigger gear range, much better air suspension, brakes were much better too. My modern 29" enduro bike is definitely faster and more confidence inspiring than my 2013 (26") DH bike.
  • 4 0
 @melonhead1145: in 2017 I went from a fairly dialed specialized big hit to a new kona process 153 and it blew me away. Sold my DH bike the next day. Makes me wonder how good a brand new 29" DH bike feels.
  • 1 0
 @nskerb: soapytits. Thats how a new DH29 feels. I sold the Gnarvava chainstay a few rides after I got used to my Gambler, didn't expect a DH bike to become my favorite steed, but with a dropper & better trail gearing it is definitely the funnest bike I've ever ridden. Check one out if you get a chance
  • 4 0
 I came here to say all these things... and more. I think PB should do double blind bike testing, because although I kinda believe that THEY can sus out the super minute differences, the rest of us? Seriously doubt it. 5mm here and there, no way, I don't buy it. But people act like it is a total game changer... "I just can't ride 170mm cranks! 172.5 or it totally sucks!!" No
  • 6 0
 I feel like if your new bike isn't significantly and obviously better then you are replacing bikes too often. Or you're doing things like servicing your suspension when you're supposed to instead of just letting the performance slowly deteriorate.
  • 3 0
 Exactly this. I tend to upgrade around 5yrs... and lately the improvement over such a timespan is hugely noticeable!
  • 2 0
 My recent upgrade was from a 2016 to a 2021. Big difference in geometry, suspension layout, kinematics, drivetrain. But really, we saw such a big progression in design over this time period. For most models, advances since 2018 or so have been very minimal in comparison.
  • 4 0
 New bikes are fun because it starts a new round of fiddling. It's very satisfying to be able to fiddle a bike into as-good-as-it-can-be. It kicks off buying new parts to make things just like you like, and who doesn't like new parts of your own choosing?
  • 4 0
 As long as it's 5lbs heavier than my old bike, with most of that weight as rotating mass, has geometry totally unsuited to where I live, is less manoeuvrable and less fun, has gears which require finer tuning tolerances than a formula one engine coupled with a cable path so tortured it could be in the next Saw movie, has a new handlebar standard so stiff I have hand ache while still in the car park, has thicker heavier forks for landing those 2 foot drops and of course is 3k more expensive than the last one for a lower spec, then hell yes it's better. Otherwise no.
  • 3 0
 Can't believe you could have an entire discussion about cassettes with fewer gears, without bringing up Box's Prime-9! After all, 9 is fine (or so I hear).

Just 9-gears, 11-50t, lighter, and they claim it's more durable and offers better performance than 12-speed cassettes.

I know I'm used to riding on a 12-speed cassette and that spacing, but I honestly don't think I'd really mind haveing 9 speeds that covered nearly the same range. The only challenge is that I haven't found a way to try one out without spending the $$s to buy it, and put it on my bike. But back when PB tried one out in 2019, they seemed to like it.

Next time I need a drivetrain on a budget-build, I'm gonna give it a shot.
  • 2 0
 The placebo effect appears to be getting stronger, so if we just wait with new marketing our current bikes can get better.


www.scientificamerican.com/article/placebo-effect-grows-in-u-s-thwarting-development-of-painkillers
  • 2 0
 All the PRs and KOMs being set on "trail I've ridden a million times, and I cleaned every section at 50% effort. This bike punches above it's (sic) weight."
Usually the "brand new bike" purchased on PB was only ridden 86 miles according to Strava. But that's a whole other discussion.
  • 2 0
 Everyone knows that The New Bike Syndrome is a real deal, shaving seconds, adds air time. Once its dialed of course. I struggled for a month with my new SB150, or lets say with Fox 38 fork. And it was the only time I was not so happy with a new bike. Then I realised the fork had 3 tokens inside, with only one I am getting the new bike syndrome delayed now, but its realy faster and better then my previous SB6
  • 3 0
 I get a new bike every 5-6 years - by that time, the technology might actually help make me a better rider, but it's by far the time in saddle and taking care of yourself that will make any bike feel new every year.
  • 2 0
 From this episode, not sure if it's just my 12 speed setup but I found the shifting sensitive to the derailleur B gap - at least know to check that first if the gears start slipping. From the last episode, thanks for the workshop tool tips, chaps, have a new chain whip and bleeding kit - agreed the bike stand, bought one in a sale a while back, game changer. One to add to the list of recommendations for SRAM 12 speeds, B Gap tool. Placebo... once I buy something I typically avoid any future reviews!
  • 2 0
 B-gap super important for those!
  • 1 0
 I came here just to find/add this. 12 speed generally works great but it is super sensitive to good tuning, in particularly b-tension. Has to be just right, it feels like if it is a mm out of tolerance, i get slipping gears or bad shifting.
  • 2 0
 I just got a new bike and wondered if the placebo effect was biasing my opinion on the new bike. So I recorded a lap on the trail I ride most on each bike on GoPro (and Strava but one of them failed) and compared the laps side by side. I was surprised to see my opinion actually did match the sections I timed.
I don’t think it’s necessary but it was an interesting experiment.
  • 2 0
 Love the flex stay discussions. Would also like to see yall talk to REEB at sea otter about their new steel flex bike. Does steel flex differently from carbon? Are they doing different tunes? Does the flex make a 120 bike feel like 130? What do coil vs air shocks feel like on a flex bike?

Excited for round 2 of this discussion!
  • 2 0
 Palmers note about Shimano also having a smaller range 12 speed cassette is right on. It’s 10-45 AND they offer the XTR derailleur in a shorter cage specifically for the smaller cassette. They also now make the XT with the shorter cage but you can’t find them anywhere yet.
  • 1 0
 That has been the only reason for me(and a lot of people I talk to) to hold out on a 12 speed drivetrain. I wish sram would do the same as I prefer their drivetrains over shimano. The 50/51/52 cogs are waaay overkill.
  • 1 0
 I went from a 2015 Process to a 2021 SB150. The new bike makes me feel more confident, which does help my skill level. Friends that would normally be able to pull away from me, I have an easier time keeping up with, sometimes even having to brake check. This is a huge upgrade though. I can't see replacing you bike every year or two making the average joe fast enough to warrant the need to purchase.
  • 5 0
 Will there ever be a DH bike field test?
  • 3 0
 Yup!
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy, Thank you for answering my question on the Stumpy. I would love to watch any product range comparison/ review where you make all the other parts the same and therefore isolate as much as you can that one element.

Question regarding suspension (front and rear from the two main brands). Where do you see the best value for money in their three tier suspension options? Is the lower tier good enough? Is the middle one the goldilocks of the bunch? or is the top tier just that good as it contains alien technology and feels and performs flawlessly?
Assume correct setup on all and continuous skills improvement.
  • 3 0
 Please tell me I'm not the only one who wants Henry to read me a bedtime story in his deep, soft, British accent... ‍♂️
  • 1 0
 If you are doing blind tests there are many ways. Here are three common ones. Difference tests are often best done with a triangle test. users taste or try 3 things two of which are the same. As humans are good with differences instead of absolutes the triangle test removes some of the subjectivity humans inject by self report differences if they can tell which is which.


www.taste-institute.com/en/resources/blog/which-taste-validation-method-is-right-for-your-company
  • 3 0
 Changing from a 26" 2002 Gary Fisher to a 2020 C2 Optic was empirically different, sans placebo.

And new bikes are a dream to ride vs the rigid frame MTB's of the 80's.
  • 1 0
 Other than my paycheck, this podcast is the best thing delivered to me by the internet.

What would make it better, on occasion, is the the dissenting opinion of a person who loves hard tails, small-brand suspension, and less-than-12 speed drives trains (or maybe even 2x's). You know the kind of person I'm taking about. They also spend hours per day on MTBR forums, prefer 2.8" tires, and know how to tune a shim stack on a Manitou Mattoc.

Sometimes Mike and Mike have to try to hard to disagree.
  • 1 0
 For me, my most recent bike change was about changing my style of riding because my 2019 Instinct BC Alloy was and is still an awesome ride. So awesome in fact, that I was getting my 52 year old body up to speeds and onto jumps I had no business being on. So sold it and got a slower descender, faster climber to balance things out. Enjoy the ride everyone.
  • 1 0
 What are your guys' thoughts on native land acknowledgement issues in Squamish/Whistler, or any other native land acknowledgement issues across the continent? Legitimate question, nothing accusatory. Could there be a way for everyone involved to settle on a sufficient compromise?
  • 1 0
 Oval chainrings are great. They are just not great for good, experienced riders.

I understand why many very fit and experienced riders don't care for oval chainrings: if you clip in and master a "round" pedal-stroke, you won't like the oval stuff. It will feel strange and somewhat "out of sync". But if you are a struggling with your form, if you find 300 m of climbing rather frightening and if you - like me - are closer to 60 than to 50 and you won't realistically get in any Hulk-like shape any time soon, then an oval chainring is a great addition to your bike.

Not overly expensive, easy to install and REALLY a game-changer on climbs. Like a 13th gear.
  • 1 0
 I find 1500 meters to be just a fun day of riding (on my 17kg bike) and race XC with a pro license. I run an oval chainring on my bikes.
  • 1 0
 I feel like you missed the most important thing about the Gravity Dropper... I had the remote lever on the handlebars and when you pulled the lever, the pin pulled out and the spring drove the seat up with amazing power. It would stop at the top of it's range OR - if you were not standing up tall enough - when powerful spring drove the seat into whatever body part was between your legs. From the manual "Always make sure nothing is in the way of post as it goes from the DOWN to the UP position. This can cause serious injury"
  • 2 0
 we won't see Henry on Coves then. They had the Handjob, Stiffee, G-Spot, STD, Hooker, Shocker. I'm sure there are more. @henryquinney
  • 2 0
 All I know is my new $1000 rear shock makes my bike better. Even if it doesn't I will not let that stop me from singing its praises about how it really "woke the bike up".
  • 4 0
 I feel like there's a pretty small overlap between the group of people who actually know how to set up their suspension and the group of people who buy really expensive after market shocks.
  • 1 0
 I think the new bike syndrome has a lot to do with motivation. You want to prove to yourself that this new toy is the best and you’re really going to push it those first few months
  • 2 0
 Question for the team:

Henry - is the PB WC team running inserts? Why or why not?

Kaz/Levy - you guys run inserts for 'regular' riding? Why or why not?
  • 2 0
 More bike parts should be named after sexual anatomy. G spot , clitoris.... mainly because nobody can find them
  • 3 0
 Strava says my new bikes faster therefore it must be faster.
  • 1 0
 My bike is obviously way better than any other, because if it’s not I’d worry about the second hand value when I’m selling it.
  • 4 0
 #RunWhatYaBrung
  • 1 0
 Linkglide, (did I get that name right?) will be 10 or 11 speed and built to last with a weight penalty. I want it although I don’t need it and have never seen it.
  • 2 0
 I thought the new episode was about the fantasy XC league…
  • 1 0
 When I get a new bike I ride it riskier and faster so I don't get buyer's remorse
  • 1 0
 I find, once I run a better Flat Peddle the previous 'best peddle' feels unrideable....
  • 1 0
 I have a buddy currently building me a custom hardtail... I cannot wait for the placebo effect!
  • 1 0
 My gf doesn’t ride but she thinks Squirt lube is the best. Kaz’s favorite trail saw is a Silky Big Boy.
  • 2 0
 Levy the way you're pronouncing Marin is making me die a little inside
  • 2 0
 So it's working then
  • 1 0
 By far the biggest example of the placebo effect on mountainbikes is a mixed wheel setup. Mullets are a right fad.
  • 1 0
 Favorite tagline from my guys:
You go first, i dont wanna crash…
  • 1 1
 For those wondering about the new Orange, it's a LDSP and is now front and centre on their website.
  • 3 5
 oval chainrings, cascade links...
  • 3 4
 Agree on the Cascade links...everyone that has one says it makes the bike 10x better but I'm not so convinced. I think for lighter and heavier riders I bet they are great but for middle of the road people I think it just makes it worse.







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