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The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 124 - Bike Parks or E-Bikes?

May 26, 2022
by Mike Levy  
Pinkbike Podcast
Art by Taj Mihelich

Bike park season is finally upon us, at least for some riders on the top half of the world, which means party laps, jump lines, and maybe some tired hands.

Episode 124 of the Pinkbike Podcast sees Henry Quinney, Mike Kazimer, and myself talk about the bike parks we've been to all over the world, from Texas to Europe to New Zealand and a little one just up the road from Pinkbike HQ called Whistler that you may have heard of already. We get into what we love about lift-accessed riding, the bikes we prefer to ride in parks, our favorite trails, some stuff that we could do without, and we even argue about riding a lift versus riding an e-bike.

Got an opinion about bike parks? Have a favorite lift-accessed riding area? Tell us about it in the comments below.

May 26th, 2022

No chain, no cares.

Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.

Previous Pinkbike Podcasts
Episode 1 - Why Are Bikes So Expensive?
Episode 2 - Where the Hell is the Grim Donut?
Episode 3 - Pond Beaver Tech
Episode 4 - Why is Every Bike a Trail Bike?
Episode 5 - Can You Trust Bike Reviews?
Episode 6 - Over Biked Or Under Biked?
Episode 7 - Wild Project Bikes
Episode 8 - Do We Need an Even Larger Wheel Size?
Episode 9 - Why Are We Doing a Cross-Country Field Test?
Episode 10 - Getting Nerdy About Bike Setup
Episode 11 - Are We Going Racing This Year?
Episode 12 - What's the Future of Bike Shops?
Episode 13 - Are Bikes Too Regular Now?
Episode 14 - What Bikes Would Pinkbike Editors Buy?
Episode 15 - What's Holding Mountain Biking Back?
Episode 16 - Who's Your Mountain Biking Hero?
Episode 17 - XC Field Test Insider
Episode 18 - Electronics on your Mountain Bike: Good or Bad?
Episode 19 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 20 - MTB Conspiracy Theories
Episode 21 - Stuff We Were Wrong About
Episode 22 - Does Your Riding Style Match Your Personality?
Episode 23 - Grim Donut 2 is Live!
Episode 24 - Why Even Buy a DH Bike?
Episode 25 - Fall Field Test Preview
Episode 26 - The Three Most Important Mountain Bikes
Episode 27 - The World Champs Special
Episode 28 - All About Women's Bikes
Episode 29 - Freeride or Die
Episode 30 - Would You Rather?
Episode 31 - Wet Weather Riding Tips & Tricks
Episode 32 - What Needs to Change in the Bike Industry?
Episode 33 - Behind the Scenes at Pinkbike Academy
Episode 34 - Grilling Levy About Field Test Trail Bikes (and His Bonspiel)
Episode 35 - Story Time - Stranger Than Fiction
Episode 36 - Grilling Kazimer about Field Test Enduro Bikes
Episode 37 - The 2020 Privateer Season with Ben Cathro
Episode 38 - Editors Defend Their 2020 Best-Of Picks
Episode 39 - Predicting the Future of Mountain Biking
Episode 40 - The Pinkbike Awards!
Episode 41 - Racing Rumours and Team Changes
Episode 42 - Mountain Biking's Guilty Pleasures
Episode 43 - Dangerholm's Wildest Custom Mountain Bikes
Episode 44 - Mountain Bike Suspension Decoded
Episode 45 - What Makes a Good Riding Buddy
Episode 46 - The RockShox Zeb vs Fox 38 Deep Dive
Episode 47 - High Pivot Bikes: The Good, The Bad, and The Why?
Episode 48 - Rides That Went Horribly Wrong... & Why That Made Them So Good
Episode 49 - What's the Best DH Bike?
Episode 50 - Are Bikes Actually Getting Less Expensive? (Value Bike Field Test Preview)
Episode 51 - Should MTB Media Post Spy Shots?
Episode 52 - Our Most Embarrassing MTB Moments
Episode 53 - Should Climbers Still Have the Right of Way?
Episode 54 - Best and Worst MTB Product Marketing
Episode 55 - Big Dumb Rides & Staying Motivated
Episode 56 - What Were the Most Important Inventions in Mountain Biking?
Episode 57 - What Were the Best (and Worst) Trends in Mountain Biking?
Episode 58 - Debunking Mountain Biking's Biggest Myths
Episode 59 - Value Bike Field Trip Surprises & Spoilers
Episode 60 - What Kind of Mountain Biker Do You Want to Be?
Episode 61 - Athlete Pay, Lycra, Equality and More from the State of the Sport Survey
Episode 62 - Editor Preferences and Why They Matter
Episode 63 - Our Best (And Worst) Bike Buying Advice
Episode 64 - Who's On Your MTB Mount Rushmore?
Episode 65 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 66 - The Best and Worst of Repairing Bikes
Episode 67 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham
Episode 68 - Who Are Mountain Biking's Unsung Heroes?
Episode 69 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 1
Episode 70 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 2
Episode 71 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham - A Pinkbike Podcast Special, Part 2
Episode 72 - Hey Outers!
Episode 73 - The Details That Matter... and Some That Shouldn't
Episode 74 - The Best Trails We've Ridden and What Makes Them So Special
Episode 75 - Things MTB Brands Waste Money On
Episode 76 - MTB Originals and Copycats
Episode 77 - Interview with Outside CEO, Robin Thurston
Episode 78 - Modern Geometry Explained
Episode 79 - What's the Future of eMTBs?
Episode 80 - The Best Vehicles for Mountain Bikers
Episode 81 - You've Got Questions, We've (Maybe) Got Answers
Episode 82 - Behind the Scenes at Field Test
Episode 83 - Does Carbon Fiber Belong On Your Mountain Bike?
Episode 84 - Explaining RockShox's Computer Controlled Suspension
Episode 85 - Is the Red Bull Rampage Too Slopestyle?
Episode 86 - Greg Minnaar on the Honda DH Bike, World Cup Racing, and Staying Fast Forever
Episode 87 - How to Love Riding When it's Cold and Wet
Episode 88 - Mountain Biking on a Budget
Episode 89 - The Derailleur Pickle
Episode 90 - Is Supre the Future of Trouble-Free Drivetrains? (with Cedric Eveleigh of Lal Bikes)
Episode 91 - Riding Every Double Black in the Whistler Bike Park with Christina Chappetta
Episode 92 - Does Bike Weight Really Matter?
Episode 93 - Staying Motivated and Overcoming Burnout
Episode 94 - PBA Contestant Tori Wood on Her First Race and Finding the Right Mindset
Episode 95 - Field Test Down-Country Bike Debrief
Episode 96 - PBA Contestant Israel Carrillo on Riding in Mexico and Why It's Not Always About Speed
Episode 97 - Can We Predict the Future of Mountain Biking?
Episode 98 - Field Test Trail Bike Debrief
Episode 99 - New Year, New You?
Episode 100 - Q&A with the PB Editors
Episode 101 - MTB Tradeshows Explained
Episode 102 - Should MTB Media Be Going to Press Camps?
Episode 103 - Secrets from the World Cup Pits with Henry Quinney
Episode 104 - Lachlan Morton on How to be a Happy Bike Racer and the World's Longest Climb
Episode 105 - The 3 Bike Budget Challenge
Episode 106 - What's Your Ideal Ride Look Like?
Episode 107 - How (And Why) Did You Start Mountain Biking?
Episode 108 - Behind the Scenes at the Value Bike Field Test
Episode 109 - Berm Peak's Seth Alvo on Making Videos 24/7, Soul Rides, and Building a Bike Park
Episode 110 - Trying (and Failing) to Reinvent the Mountain Bike
Episode 111 - The Pinkbike Racing Podcast: Episode #1 - It's All Downhill From Here
Episode 112 - The Pinkbike Racing Podcast: Episode #2 - The Lourdes World Cup Post-Race Wrap-Up
Episode 113 - PB Editors Answer Your Questions (again)
Episode 114 - The Placebo Effect and Your New Mountain Bike
Episode 115 - We Are One's CEO Talks Future DH Bike, E-Bikes, & Domestic Manufacturing
Episode 116 - New Bikes and Gear from Sea Otter
Episode 117 - Mountain Biking's Worst (or Best) Cliché Crimes
Episode 118 - Music and Mountain Biking
Episode 119 - Road Trips Gone Horribly Wrong
Episode 120 - Gee Atherton on Titanium Additive Manufacturing, Million Dollar Machines, and 3 New Bikes
Episode 121 - How To Film Rampage & Field Tests with the PB Team
Episode 122 - Do Social Media & Mountain Biking Go Together?
Episode 123 - The Pinkbike Racing Podcast: Episode #3 - Fort William World Cup Wrap-Up

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Member since Oct 18, 2005
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  • 41 17
 Apples and Oranges. I know eBike enthusiasts like claiming a huge increase in the number of runs you're able to do (at least before the battery runs out), but realistically there's a limit. A 22 minute climb to get back to the top on an analog bike will maybe take you 15 minutes on the eBike. Some rides that means another descent, some rides it doesn't, depending on how much time you have. But rarely does riding an eBike mean you get 10 descents when you'd otherwise get 2.

And I'll add that the vast majority of people using them in my area don't use them to go much faster or get more laps in - they just use them to not work as hard, often going the same average speed they did on regular bikes, but getting fatter.
  • 24 3
 Your expertise on ebike riders is uncanny
  • 11 3
 @SterlingArcher: it's a heavy burden to bear but someone's gotta do it
  • 47 6
 Maybe the people you've encountered do use ebikes to ride the same trails in a lazier fashion. But in my personal experience, I'm able to triple or quadruple the number of runs I get in at my local shuttle zone and climb the road in about a third of the time it takes on a regular bike. That doesn't take into account the areas I ride my emtb in which I would never ride my normal bike due to the extremely steep climbs, which make for wicked descents. Those of us who don't have a problem climbing a normal bike can use the e-bike to its potential and actually pack in a bike-park number of descents in a day. That being said, I'm a huge fan of bike parks. I'm also a huge fan of long slogs in the backcountry. I like all bikes and all rides. What a wild concept.
  • 13 6
 @Lando406: people forget that ebike riders also own acoustic bikes as well.
  • 10 2
 I think you mean 40 minutes climbs made in 20, much faster flat and rolling terrain speed in the 4th hour of riding.

Then is the lvl of energy you consume. Maybe on your terrain, you'll reach the start point of the trail 5 minutes later but, by the second half of the day, you would have consume a much higher amount of energy that will, effectively, influence the way you ride and the speed you are riding with.

..I was a seriously doubter and emtb, actually, hater... and I still don't own one but, having seen what and how much they add to the riding time(experiencing them), I do understand people who buy them; especially if they live at the bottom of a mountain, they make 120% sense.

personally, as any mountain trail is at a minimum 150 miles from me, having an e-bike isn't justified(and, emtbs are still too heavy) but, if I'd have a mountain in my backyard.. then, my bike would be an electric one, 100%!
  • 8 0
 @eugenux: I'm not a hater in the slightest, just correcting the misconception that riding an eBike is always a huge descent multiplier.
  • 5 1
 @eugenux: I just looked back at my latest eBike ride, and a climb that usually takes me 40 minutes on my analog bike, going hard, took me 29 minutes on the eBike, going hard. A time savings, for sure. But not enough to make that ride have two descents instead of one. It varies by ride of course, but in general, I think the increased number of descents that eBikes give you is overestimated.
  • 8 3
let me put it this way, my last mountain ride consisted in 25 miles of natural trails with roughly 3000ft of elevation and double of that amount on the downs.
By the time of the last hour of riding, I was dead!, on the last climb, I had to push the bike for 10-11-12-15 minutes(I don't recall exactly), while the local guys, on their emtbs, were waiting me at the trail head.
At the end of the day, even after a couple of cold ones, my body was sore and my legs felt that riding for the next 3 days.
The guys on the e_bikes were ready to ride again, "immediately" after the beers; their batteries were at 40-45%.
Ok, I'm in no way some stand out for fitness and stamina... but still, it was a fun but hard day. For the emtb local guys, it was just normal Friday riding.
That's the difference, at least for an average Joe like me.
  • 14 2
 @eugenux: guess whose fitness improved more after that ride? Smile
  • 4 1
 @rickybobby18: you are correct but, they ride the next day and in the day after that so, in my opinion, more riding time compensate well with a much harder effort but less riding... especially since, well.. you ride more.

I'll still not get an ebike as, in the flat fields where I live, I could have a cruiser bike and get the same amount of effort I get when I go out for a post work ride on my mtb but, like I have said, for those who have the mountain in their backyard, it totally makes sense, especially since you can link easily a bigger variety of trails, which on a normal bike, woud be much harder due to the short time and hard elevation required.
  • 29 0
 @Lando406, totally agree - I'm on the same program. Regular bikes are great, chairlifts are great, and e-bikes are fun toys too.

Just think how much time everyone would have to ride if they went outside instead of debating about silly things on the internet.
  • 5 1
 Fact is, the best use of ebikes is to self shuttle very steep / generally unclimbable access roads for dh laps. I don’t do loops I would do on my trail bike, why would I? E bike is heavy af, it’s only fun in the steep / gnar.

Not sure how this relates to the bike park…i love taking my dh sled to the bike park and would never consider one a replacement for the other.
  • 3 0
 @nvranka: I’m so out of shape that climbing on the ebike feels like my regular bike on flat ground LOL
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: false dilemma i have plenty of time for both
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: you'd be riding on your own time though. Since this job would be gone.
  • 1 0
 I don’t ride a bike, but at one of the awesome pedal up parks near me, Kanuga (built by Nico Mullally) ebike riders are getting 3 to 4 times as many laps as pedal up. So a big pedal up day for me is 5500 or 6000 vertical but there are some ebike rides at 20 to 25,000 vertical in a day so that’s a lot… 3-4 x the uphill speed
  • 1 0
 TYPO: i don't ride an Ebike… DO ride a bike or I wouldn't post shit here. I need a voice to text secretary
  • 2 0

Like on the downhills, the shape/tightness of the trail makes a big difference.

On some singletrack/more technical/tight climbs, I could understand only being mildly faster, as there isn't enough room/is too chunky to go much faster than a muscle bike (my favorite non-normal term for a "normal" bike).

But on more wide open fireroad type climbs, I'd expect that ebikes have the ability to be 2-3x faster at least, simply because they greatly increase system power (rider + bike). So in those situations people would likely be substantially reducing their climb times. At least I'd think.

Based on the really simplified math/assumptions of:

Average cyclists FTP is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of ~250w.
Most class 1 ebikes have assistance that maxes out between 250-750w.
  • 2 0
 @eugenux: Whoa whoa whoa...nobody said we had to do math today.
  • 2 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: I’ve been there on my e bike and can verify. I was towing my 10 year old on every lap as well so we could get more laps in. And yes I have other non E bikes and yes I’m not lazy and yes I love riding my non e bikes too and yes I seek the most fun possible on a bike which is why I have different bikes for different rides and why I don’t ride my e bike on dirt jumps I ride my DJ and yes I just won the longest run on sentence award.
  • 1 0
 @txcx166: Wild - all the way from OK. How'd you like Kanuga? (And you go w/ those run-ons, its fun. I do science editing (in part) for work so I prefer the casual nature of message boards - its like street art.)

Interesting to hear about the bikes - this is the case with everyone I ride with that has an ebike. I'm not at ebike $tatus (!) yet but I can see it being an option in the future if costs drop, battery life and fine tuning goes off - its just cost prohibitive to me now, but even if I had it I'd wanna wait 3-5 years til things get even better (and they seem good now).

In the national forest of western NC, ebikes are not formally allowed on trails but are on roads (so naturally some people poach), esp in remote areas. I'd seen ebikes are Windrock, Snowshoe, or other lift access parks but on my 1st trip to Kanuga I got lapped at the entry and then again at the top by a rider - caught up with him later and he had done 4 times my elevation & mileage almost exactly - 15000 vert (30 full laps) and like 60 miles. Strava data shows even 60-70 mile days out there too. I could easily see the reason to have an ebike at park, but also just for big lap days (since ebikes are not allowed on national forest). Def made sense to me that being less tired at the top plus all that extra lapping is pretty badass.
  • 2 1
 True, but the eBiker can do this 7 times a week. The analoge will have to to content himself with 3-4 rides a week.
  • 2 0
 @filsdanvers: I don't content myself to 3-4 rides a week and often ride daily as many d, given the chance (esp if on vacation) and weather pending (esp in my area which is year-round). The difference is just going to be elev / distance, not strength or effort, motorized help is going to give (in my opinion).

Question tho: assuming you did full-battery use day every day - how long would a battery even last? No idea...
  • 3 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: Shimano says their batteries will
Lose 20% capacity after 1000 cycles. I’m about halfway through that (2750 miles) and it seems accurate.
  • 1 0
 @owl-X: Word, thx for the intel. Im sure Im 5-10yrs out on an ebike, but still doing my homework & watching… not a hater
  • 1 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: I don’t know where you are in your life’s journey but ebikes already won over here. I put a couple hundred miles on a new megatower recently and I couldn’t wait to get back on my Eeb. Riding trails. Lots and lots of trails.
  • 1 0
 @owl-X: Ebikes are illegal on Nat'l Forest / western NC trails (not gravel) which is the majority of bike-habitat around here - thats not looking like it'll change & I fully support that..it would become a disaster zone of noobs & hacks and its already crowded & eroded enough in much of Pisgah, even with a couple of trail-redo's recently.

But ebikes are def'ly a park thing here - totally cool w/ that, but I like pedaling analog just fine (nearly 3 decades deep...no spring chik'n or slowpoke either). Also at current prices I'd buy 2 moto's instead for now - the prices are absurd in comparison and for insanely less power and legal trail access for now. Anyway - I totally get it - just not snapping one up for now...but it doesn't make sense for 95% of places I ride. For now, would def rather collect a few affordable bikes / self-builds first, fill out the collection. That being said if I ran into unlimited cash (and I don't know where you are in your life's journey!), prob would buy one in a year or two.
  • 2 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: one thing I realized is the fact that electrics work better even with more average components and suspension.

If, on a normal bike, I put light wheels, x01/xx1/xtr components and top of the line suspension, to make it as lighter and as much performance oriented as I can... on an electric, I wouldn't botter. Good brakes and tires and middle of the ground everything else. I don't know if it is placebo or not but they work very good with average specs. (one of the reason for which I don't understand 16k usd elecrics... as in, with those money, I can get a nice small Aprilia for some twisties and still be left with almost enough that I could afford a medium spec electric mtb)
  • 2 0
 @eugenux: I have heard this on the PB podcast several times - the avg' components ironically seem to work better than everything being high end so I don't think you're off. This draws the question of why such high expense then when mid-range components are (mostly) being utilized? However, I get that years of research, engineering etc need paying for.

Speaking of Aprilia - I don't know the costs and models (looks great tho), but do you think the fact that I could buy 2 trail motos (in the US anyway) with many more moving & complex parts (etc) for the cost of one good ebike due to the fac fact of moto manufacturing scale / history / trajectory / efficiency of for motos vs. mtb??? Seems ironic - bikes have been manufactured for over 100 years now the sky-high ebike cost still perplexes me though I'm sure its not just purely inflated.
  • 1 0
 @eugenux: why wouldn’t you want high end suspension? Lol
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: because, on an ebike, for me, it felt like little to no difference. 36 performance and 36 rythm felt on those ebikes like 95% of my factory, with little time into adjustments settings
  • 1 1
 @eugenux: then you’d find little difference on your regular bike…wouldn’t you?

I don’t see how this is an ebike specific thing for you (or anyone). Most people do not need factory level suspension. If anything, having a proper damper and most adjustability is more important with a heavier bike imo.
  • 2 0
 @nvranka: disagree. on the factory, every little difference counts and I feel those differences on the trail. That's why we take so much time and adapt fork set-ups to different types of trail/courses.

On cheaper forks for ebikes.., sag.. and sufficient rebound and compression to keep the heavies under control, all of which takes the maximum of 5 minutes.
  • 1 0
 @eugenux: you’re aware most of the pointy end doesn’t change their settings that much per trail right? Especially ews
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: I'm no ews.. not even national.. so, I'd stop and adjust the rebound and LSC IF I feel I need to. I am doing it 100% when I run down dh tracks, which are more serious and rugged. The(my) usual comfy set-up does not work on dh trails/black runs.
In the end, I really don't care what X and Y are doing with their suspensions.. I'm doing me and I'm ok with that.
  • 1 0
 Spoiler alert: Lift access and e bikes are the same thing.
  • 22 7
 Look forward to listening but want to get something off my chest.

I am a lurker on the Cleveland (Ohio) Area Mountain Bike Association facebook group, someone posted a picture of an e-bike with the caption "cheating?". The overwhelming response was "not cheating, just different". I can accept that but start your own group (not that I am really a member).

It is freaking Ohio. You aren't accessing some undiscovered back country. There is very little elevation change so if a climb is steep, then it is very short.

Bottom line for me (Ohio perspective), if it isn't an accessibility issue, then you are either lazy or it is a different sport. It is hard enough to tell people with a straight face that you are a mountain biker in Ohio. They just look confused.
  • 8 3
 I'm in Ohio, and love my eeb. I ride bikes (all kinds) for fun, and not for any other reason. I find it odd that people care how other people get their fitness.

You should come to Horns Hill and ride maybe you'd see the other side of the eeb argument. Although, if you tell people that you're a 'mountain biker in Ohio', you probably already have.
  • 3 1
 I think that I would only get an e bike if i lived somewhere flat to go quicker and make trail more fun
  • 2 0
 @zanda23: They're also great for commuting.
  • 1 0
 It’s funny how jealous people are. We get it, they’re expensive.
  • 6 0
 I would 100% sign up for Henry Quinney's Give No Shits Seminar. It would be an excellent 8 part op-ed series and good to hear in light of today's 'care about everything' vibe.
  • 1 0
 Seconded, this would be great
  • 1 0
 I'll join you on that one. The man is wise beyond his years.
  • 1 0
 Agreed. I'm already on board with and practicing this attitude so I could be a guest lecturer, but having Henry give a master class, esp w/ his English background where DO give a shit is a thing (if not a defining thing) - would be a pay-per-view event
  • 12 7
 Oh E bike filter broken.

This gives me the opportunity to address the Santa Cruz battery recall. Apparently the battery can fall out causing an explosion or a fire .
Non modified E bikes that can catch on fire .
E bikes should be licensed , E bikes are excellent for commuting.
Motor bikes do not belong on trails . The "E" stands for electric motor.
  • 6 0
 Henry's only reasonable view. DH bikes are great.
  • 6 1
 Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but hating on silky bike bark berms is literally the thought train of a schizophrenic.
  • 4 0
 @pbfan08: #banberms
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: How bout for every smooth berm that bike brands shoot wheels exploding on, the bike park has to have one gnarly off camber section? Deal?
  • 2 0
 It is completely strange around here. I see most e-bikes in the bike park using the chair lift or cable car. Why would you do that? Maybe the shops only rent e-bikes these days???

Otherwise I am completely with you. Had a great day in the Port du Soleil bike park once. At the end of the day just doing what I thought I love, I did not feel satisfied. My friends looked at me as if I would be an alien when I told them that I do another 1000m climbing to ride the last trail once more after the cable car had already closed.
  • 5 0
 Ebikes on chairlifts is to troll ebike haters.
  • 2 2
 Possibly because they prefer the handling of a heavier ebike. Less chatter, better sprung/unsprung weight ratio, lower center of gravity, etc.

Or they only have one bike, so they use it in the bike park and outside the bikepark
  • 2 0
 At 50:30 in the pod, Levy asked Henry about lift vs. ebike usage as contradictory.

I'm not seeing how riding lift & shuttle access for DH (or just normal pay-free shuttling, whatever bike type) and wanting to ride an ebike is contradictory or at odds. I also don't see either as a laziness issue as if I've had a massive DH day of 45-50,000 vert dropping, I'm pretty exhausted by the end of it than any of my biggest pedal days. Lots of people I know are cooked in just 3-4 hours.

Nearly every DH bike rider I know also has other bikes (including ebike) and are shredders on any of them - so park is just added bonus with high numbers of runs in terrain w/ built features that often even shuttling (around here anyway) won't get you into. Likewise, all the ebikers I've seen at my local pedal-up park are pushing pretty hard uphill (I can get lapped twice in 500 vertical) but motoring clearly makes the climb less exhausting - thus, more runs, elevation & mileage.

I don't ebike, so while ass-glamping up a lift is 95+% less exhausting than me biking up that - I'm far faster on my DH bike in a park than any ebikes I've ridden (all single crown so far) though with dual crown ebikes, maybe that's the same. So I don't really see the advantage of ebikes in most park situations (vs. remote, non-lift access where ebikes will make going 2-4 times the distance / elevation an easier task) except with dual-crowned ebikes - but maybe its to get more speed in less steep situations at a park where slower pedal-bike times would normally be had. .
  • 2 0
 @outsideceo @notoutsideceo @brianpark No mention of the Beta closure, in the news after 3 months of hype? Where do we go for refunds on our subscriptions?

  • 2 0
 So I'm having a Holy Shit moment here - so 1) this means Beta just died and 2) if so how am I the only person to have commented on your post yet; 3) maybe I'm naive but I'd think PB would cover that.

My next thought is then did PB just get staff slashed? Did the fierce resistence from PB fans have anything to do with it? I was never a Beta-Hata but I didn't see a reason to subscribe though I do love paper mags and collect them...love Freehub, but it seems plenty.

Also what does this mean for Ryan? He was formerly with BikeMag and that closed, then Beta and now that closed... I like the guy and hope he stays w/ PB at least.
  • 2 0
 I swear less than four weeks ago they just announced print subscriptions available outside US. WTH? Manic ceo.
  • 2 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: Sounds like they only killed the Beta print magazine. They're planning on keeping the website.
  • 1 0
 @reindeln: *add thumbs up emoji here*. Well at least the website will be there for PB fans to piss on! I'm ambivalent. Debated subscribing for yucks, since I like print, but - didn't. Don't see why I'd subscribe to online Beta only. Plus: the name Beta. Why be second or in test mode? Never got the name...
  • 4 0
 Nothing against e-bikes but the point of a bike park is to not ride uphill at all, not just to make it easier
  • 1 0
 Agreed - I don't ebike (don't hate em either) but at zero bike parks would I want to spend time pedaling up EXCEPT at Kanuga and Berm Park (local parks) which are small enough that its not a biggie and in fact, is part of the experience. If I'm dropping coin on a pass and/or daily rates anywhere I def wanna max the drop vs. sweatin' it on the ups. @mikelevy might disagree though - I think he might actually want a down-lift and then ride back to the top - do it again.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark @mikelevy how about doing a pinkbike bike park world tour? Come to the UK, ride Dyfi with the Athertons, Revs, Bikepark Wales, Windhill with GMBN crew, some fresh cut loamers and herbal highs with 50:01 and the Loose Riders.

Our scene here is subtly different to yours, and to the crazy steep lines in France. I don't know the German scene, but I bet that's way different too. I reckon they'd all make for fascinating visits and stories.

I'd love to see the PB crew trying to smash some fresh cut loam turns with the locals and trying to understand a few rich local accents and vocabularies! Go on, take the show on the road!
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 great podcast - like the format of general chat and slightly more detail on a specific topic for the meat of minutes. has kept me well entertained on a roadtrip recently

ebikes - if I had a spare $20kNZD I might buy one that's up to self-shuttling grade 5s, but I don't, so I'm happy flogging myself up hills to get fit and enjoying the bikes I've got. it's nice just being in the forest under your own steam, particularly after being injured and off the bike for 6 months. I could've sold everything up in that time and bought one bike, but yeah nah - I like working hard and doing it unassisted. There's pride in it.

two things bug me about ebikes - one is about people overtaking me when it's unsafe to do so. I'm on grade 2s and 3s for a bit while rehabbing and yeah, some stupid overtaking going on. one family forced me off some doubletrack uphill to get around and almost took out a guy coming downhill. wonder how many people are getting hurt as others develop their etiquette?
the other thing is seeing younger kids rolling around on such expensive and assistive machines. maybe I'm romanticising the past, but it just doesn't seem right. guess that happens everywhere, and maybe there are cheaper analogue bikes for the kids without wealthy parents as a result of trickledown, but I just want my kid to appreciate what hard work looks like, and how bloody lucky they are to be riding bikes at all, rather than expecting a machine to do the work for them. it's like anything - how many kids don't know how to cook because their parents order take out all the time? opting for easier alternatives and avoiding hard work is ingraining bad decision making skills from an early age.

I dunno...get off my lawn etc
  • 1 0
 I have this really nice plugin for my browser that lets me replace or remove words on web pages. So I've replaced "analog", and "acoustic" with " ". The comments are finally making sense!
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 Did I mention that we have not been able to listen on our company phones since December 3rd, '21? Labeled as explicit material and no downloads allowed, so now we can't burn drive time with you all anymore! Miss you all.
  • 1 0
 Oh wow, that’s crazy. Didn’t know they could do that… because of a few F-bombs haha
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 @mikelevy: I listen on my own phone… problem solved.

Don’t no use the f bombs. It adds some sugar to listen.
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 @clipless101: Not gonna pay for a phone when somebody else does. Anyways, I haven't listened to the podcast since last December and haven't died.
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 Future podcast - If you had unlimited budget and the era was not a factor, what would make up your dream professional race team. Riders, mechanics, managers, sponsors etc. Could make for a good bench racing session.
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 It’d be amazing to see bike parks, like WB, start building uphill climbing trails rated green, blue , black by they’re difficulty level, that take you to the top of the descent trails as an alternative to riding the lifts.
I’ve ridden my 2018 Kenevo and my current Levo in the park and performs outstandingly.
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 The lift ticket sales wouldn't suffer one bit.
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 One of my local bike parks has several routes to climb to the top. As far as I can tell, I am the only person who does it. It kind of falls into a grey area as you aren't supposed to do it, but from what I have been told no legal way to stop it as long as you are on an actual bicycle.
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 Bike Parks because they already have a designated zoo. Give e-bike customers a normal bike and a 'bike park pass for life', please. /s.
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 First park experience was whistler 1996 on my Santa Cruz heckler. They barely had any trails back then.
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 Regarding the tire naming, Specialized totally missed the mark by not using the "Napalm Death" when they had Shaun Palmer on their roster... NaPalm Death Grrrr!
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 @mikekazimer listening to this podcast 2 years too late but wondering if you've been to mountain Creek in New Jersey, and if you have, thoughts?
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 E-Bike Parks!
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 That's Skypark basically nowadays
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 @office: Went there for the first time in a year or so (I was a pass holder from the time they first opened until last year) and decided I won't be going back. I think I have the (unofficial) record for the largest ride there.
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 @JSTootell: Not going back because of the eBikes? I see quite a few of them there, and there are *some* dicks riding them, but I haven't noticed any more dickish behavior from eBike riders than regular bikes. Granted, we live pretty close by and try to avoid going on weekends when it's more crowded. Way better on Thurs. or Fri. if you can swing that.
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 @SoCalTrev: Weekdays isn't an option. I am not taking a vacation day to ride SP, better places to burn vacation on.

Not interested in spending that much money to be surrounded by that many people on eBikes. I can ride for free (minus fuel) with very few to no bikes not far away in Big Bear (which is what the GF and I did this past weekend).
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 @JSTootell: Understandable. Until recently (Back in the office part time now, which makes for a less flexible schedule.), we could arrange our work schedules to put in extra hours at other times during the week, so that we could do a Thurs. or Fri half-day up at SkyPark w/o burning vacation hours. For us it makes sense 'cause we're less than an hour from there and I have young kids. There's plenty there to keep them entertained besides just riding, which makes it a good family destination. Only the 6yo is riding trails, and he's only good for a few runs before he gets tired of the climb and wants to go do something else. Definitely with no kids/older kids, it might be a different choice.
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 I can barely hear @henryquinney
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 Nothing beats party laps with a good crew.
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 For wrestling fans, Specialized needs a tire called the Blade to go with the Butcher...
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 Henry should ride in Mont Sainte-Anne. It's vertical tech and there's almost no berms.
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 When will pink bike make an app
  • 2 1
 The Stevens Pass bike park was my gateway drug to E-bikes.
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 Soooooo screw Vail?
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 @kokofosho: #f*ckvailresorts ; always and forever.

They are single handedly destroying ski/snowboard culture in North America.
  • 1 0
 The disemboweler will clearly be specialized's spike tire.
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 When will we bring back fork boots?
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 There’s just too much stanchion to cover now. It would be too much front end weight, OTB’s all over the place.
  • 1 1
 The ebike debate seems like the current version of the 29er debate from years back.
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 Why not both?
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 Oh yup - bike parks WITH ebikes. No shame!!! Big Grin
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 @SterlingArcher: I’ve seen this before, pretty funny.

But he probably means e bike at home for dh laps, and bike park w dh sled
  • 2 0
 @nvranka: oh for sure. Ebike at the bike park would be like adding a shot of vodka to your beer. Yes please!!
  • 1 1
 @nvranka: This ^ ; 10 years ago the ideal set up was a DH sled/park bike and a trail bike(status and stumpjumper for me back then), today its an ebike(levo) and a racey enduro rig(newish spesh enduro ). Covers everything I need it to and its nothing but fun everywhere I go..

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