The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 15 - What's Holding Mountain Biking Back?

 Amen to that.

 Yeah agree, I wish surfing was like that too...

 I second this. Mountain biking is an extreme sport at its core, and going mainstream means dumbing it down. We already see this happening with trails getting nerfed, or young able bodied people getting ebikes.

 To me, it's the idea of doing something difficult and reaping a hard-earned reward that makes MTB appealing. Running, martial arts, surfing, adaptive sports, and mountaineering/rock climbing are a few others that follow the same vein, but each is unique in its own right. Ultimately, these are not celebrations of one individual’s victory over another, but celebrations of mind over matter. That's why these endeavors can’t ever reach “mainstream” status. They require a specific environment, at least basic equipment, and a willing, engaged participant. A balance between these inputs cannot be found in all places at all times congruently - like mainstream things can be. The value of these activities is derived from their exceptional and difficult nature, not their regular-ness. Attempts to force the sport into the mainstream can only erode that intrinsic value.

 hahah totally agree, but I have to say, that there is also a lot of young people out there on Walmart bikes or hardtail steel bikes with lots of talent, that ride a lot better than a lot of the rich kids with fullsus bikes. Thats talent not reaching its full potential just because of $$$ sadly.....

 Agree. Which is one reason I never go to bike parks. Lines & hoards of people are the antithesis of what MTB'g is to ME.

Granted, I know there is some cool-ass shit I'm missing out on trail wise. But I hate people enough in general that I don't care.

 Price of bikes and poor wages for riders is what’s holding the sport back

 @dirtbag-tyrel16: A $400 hardtail from Specialized, Trek, or Giant isn't holding anyone back. That shiny new iPhone or Nike's aren't holding anyone back and they are sold by the millions

 Totally agree. When something goes mainstream, its value is lost. Let mtbing remain obscure, let it be for the few and not the many.

 It's also scary sometimes, which means posers and the feint of heart need not apply. Works for me!

 I can't agree enough. I miss my quirky, dorky, outcast solitude. The same goes for climbing, jebus

 @hbar314: I'll assume you're being sarcastic, but people who ride with Bluetooth speakers are super duper annoying.

 Yeah. You been to a ski hill lately. Its fuckin bonkers here in WA. Last winter some resorts stopped selling day tickets. Meaning you had to order them days in advance. No thanks.

 MTBing is fun and while it desirable to have high barriers to entry, there are many benefits to the sport if it gains more popularity. More people involved equals more support for trail building and general MTBing infrastructure and less opposition. More people equals, more demand for more supply , which allows companies to achieve economies of scale and reduce costs for the end consumer. More people involved increases opportunities for more people to earn a living in the sport they love. More people involved increases opportunity for more riding buddies.

 @ryane: Actually, those cell phones, labeled clothing, video games, these are holding people back because those "things" are far easier to master than participating in a sport, as well, they are much safer and more mainstream.

There was a time when the "thinkers" of the world (Greeks) believed that more leisure time would lead humans to engage their minds and bodies ... they were wrong. Humans are inherently lazy.

 RC nailed it in his interview in the downtime podcast, I think. www.downtimepodcast.com/richard-cunningham (@approx. 1h21min). Mountain biking is probably a peak right now – we have parks, can use shared access trails, and in many places can even ride what used to be hiking trails. If mountain biking were to become even more mainstream, it will bring with it a fundamental change to how trails are shared between user groups.

I know this sounds selfish. I'm in favor or reducing the entry hurdles to biking and getting more people into the sport – but we have to be conscious that it will bring with it some restrictions to keep the sport alive.

 @grizzlyatom: extremely good post sir

 @nurseben: what? are you the new Waki?

 @grizzlyatom: one of the most articulate statements I’ve seen in over a decade on Pinkbike.

 It’s quite selfish and elitist but I tend to agree. It depends a lot on where you live and ride too. I think often those most interested in “growing the sport” are those most interested in growing their income. I truly love mountain biking for many reasons, but in the end it’s not important that anybody do it, including myself. It is pure privilege.

 @BiNARYBiKE: it is privilege. my 2014 self would lose his mind if he knew 2020 me spent 4000 on a bike.

 @krka73: sounds like you have some issues you need to address. People are great, really where would we be without them ?

 The mainstream is where mediocrity thrives, take music as a great example: the most popular music is the least complicated and least original type of music. If MTBiking becomes mainstream then the trails will be built or “fixed” for the average rider.

 I agree, doubt the park riders agree. Me, my bike a couple of my core riding buddies and some fast AF, tech trails.

 It's not selfish; not everything needs to be accessible to the masses.

More bikes, runners, etc on the trails don't necessarily mean the sport will progress. Where I live (Marin), people are constantly bickering over any new trail that's built, who can use it, who can't.

Mostly I've had positive experiences, but there are a lot of unhappy people around, and lot of them are vocal about it. I'd say in this area there is a lot of money and a ton of trails, both of which improve access and maybe that easy access is also what leads to negative vibes and incidents on the trails.

 Truth. Nothing beats the alone time, away from the crowds.

"Wherever the crowd goes, run the other direction. They're always wrong." - Charles Bukowski.

Is Bukowski telling me to peruse my dream of building a 38''/34'' mullet bike?

 @ybsurf: it is in February

 @hbar314: people dont understanding your level of sarcasm is just beyond me.

 So true. I was big into snowboarding for about 10 years and then it exploded and I just couldn't/didn't want to deal with huge lift lines, even during the weekday.

 @LagunaSunrise: no I think it's a 16"/26" mullet

 @riklassen: If you think that more people will equal costs being reduced, you will be massively disappointed.

 @SlodownU: increasing demand doesn’t lower costs??? I guess I should’ve paid more attention in my economics class...

 @unrooted: Not when it comes to MTB

 @the-one1: I always forget how stupid the rest of you dipshits are, and that even the most obviously sarcastic comments have to have a sarcasm tag.

 @bhoodlum: you should look into the backcountry. Although even that is starting to get crazy depending on where you live.

 @makripper: really you havent been south island during a good swell, or even chesterman and surfing in general meaning in tropical country as well. Unless you go camp in remote location big crowds will wait for you.

 @ybsurf: i sure have! And it's been dead mid winter. Jordan river and Tofino. Summer is busier lol. I lived on the island for a few years. Even when I was in Australia surfing there, what is called "busy" is nothing like the surf spots in Cali.

 @grizzlyatom: Don't forget skateboarding.

 Spoken like someone with lots of money

 @unrooted: Totally agree. Glentress in the scottish borders is an exellent example of just that. It has increasingly become a family playground rather than a fun involved bike park.

 @TreeBeak: We have a lift access DH spot that gets more business from families who want a mediocre view from the top, even though there are lots of riders. Hard times for the hardcore!

 @jesse-effing-edwards: I guess the balance is that it keeps the masses away from the good stuff outside the bikeparks

 @4thflowkage: It was extreme until FLOW TRAILS happen!

 27.5 and 29ers bicycles made that high barrier $$$$$$ happen! Don't forget the $200 a bicycle hammer!!

 Unpopular opinion. Yeah it is selfish. The more people and kids interesting the sport the better. More trails, more everything. The sport is hard to get crowded anyway, on a one way trail.

 @danbgbg: ....most trails are NOT 1 way...

 Agreed. These days it’s hard to find parking at hiking trail heads. This is never the case when I go mountain biking.

 THIS

 Well, I mean the Yeti SB165 is an all-mountain bike and the trail centre is on the mountain, right? And the weight savings on those enve rims will come in handy on the gentle rollers.

 @igxqrrl: I ride mtb for over 20 years an never paid neither of those price tags... you can go around that easy...

 @brajal: Not everyone can rock the Y-front/flip flops/hollowed out melon look and get away with like you do.

 Its up to the riders to determine what kind of bike and what kind of gear you need, pinkbike comments have this idea that companies make people buy stuff and its absolute nonsense. You say their marketing mini DH bikes at people who don't need them, yet at its core marketing is about making your name and brand known to the people/audience who values the traits of your product, but it's up to the consumer to decide what their needs are. Everyone is aware there are used markets available, and its up to consumers to be informed on what they need prior to making big purchases. Also, every brand has entry level products that are marketed as such and pinkbike literally did a whole field test dedicated to budget bikes and entry level bikes, yet I still saw countless people moaning on PB and instagram about how $2k isn't budget. If a sport isn't in your price range, that's unfortunate, but I know countless people that have been able to enter the sport this year on a budget and enjoy themselves, my girlfriend included. Yeah MTB is expensive, but so are most sports and hobbies, that's life for ya. If you feel you need a $6k mountain bike great do it, if you think that's ridiculous, also great, do your thing, but this gatekeepy culture that people who have nice things are inferior needs to stop, god forbid someone new to a sport buys themselves nice things cause they can afford it. Plus if they never use it, someone lucky gets a good deal on the used market, win win.

 @LAM: Exactly. When was the last time you saw the base-model car from any manufacturer reviewed or put in the ads they show? Yeah, you CAN buy a $20,000 F150, but the one they show in the ad is always the Crew Cab, 4WD, 3.5L Ecoboost, Platinum Edition that goes for $80,000.

 @LAM: At it's core marketing is about selling you shit you don't need under the pretence it will make you happy.

 @LAM: Fly fishing is my other main hobby, and it's generally viewed as an expensive hobby. But I can buy a Echo Carbon XL/Lamson Liquid combo for a few hundred bucks and have a rig that lasts years of hard fishing, with a full lifetime warranty to boot. I own many much more expensive setups of course (rods in excess of a grand, not including reel or line), but the point is that it's possible to have a legit fly fishing setup for a reasonable price. I wish I could recommend a good mountain bike that will last years of hard riding to people new to the sport, but you really do get what you pay for and below a couple thousand the bikes are just not very good. Pretty sad state of affairs.

 @TheLoamDeranger: Man I'd like to agree but I just can't. I can buy a mountain bike for what I view as a reasonable price, but I can't buy a really great car with good tires and gas and insurance for that same price. Not everything is created equal sadly. I bought my current bike, a 2014 Kona process 153 DL in 2017 for $2500. I can still sell that bike for about $2k meaning it has cost me $500 (obviously not including maintenance and repairs) to ride my 2014 bike for 4 seasons and while I spent a fair bit on replacement parts, I also ride way harder and am way harder on my bike than someone new to the sport is or would be. That bike has given me 1 day a week for 3 summers at a local bike park, countless rides around my local spots, bike trips through the PNW of the US and Canada and hours and hours of enjoyment. Everyone has their priorites, but that price to me is entirely reasonable and I have no issue paying to do what I love.

 @LAM: well said. Buying used and going for a mid level build certainly means you can ride a great bike for a few hundred in depreciation a year. I bought a 6 month old giant trance advanced in 2017 for 3k. In this covid market, I could easily get 2500 for it, if not the same 3k (missus maintenance and upgrades of course). Before that, I had a process 111 that I lost less $500/600 on after two years of hard use. It does take a lot of experience to buy used well though. I try to help newer riders find good used bikes.

 I started as a poor 15 year old on a crappy 8 speed Deore Specialized P.2 with my skate shoes, no padded shorts, bmx helmet, and bald tires. I rode more in those days with crap gear than I do now. I even used more crappy gear when I rode BMX. Price is not a barrier to this sport.

 @TheLoamDeranger: "years of hard fishing" hahaha. A fly fishing rod doesn't have to support many times your body weight, isn't a significant safety liability if it breaks, has VERY few parts to it (and only a couple of moving parts), has generally very simple parts, doesn't have significant demands on strength to weight or even weight as a whole, and you honestly think that's a reasonable comparison to something as complex as a mountain bike? Even if nothing else, there is SO MUCH MORE material in a bike than a fishing setup. Not many people flinging 35lbs of fishing rod around.

LAM is on the money. Mountain bikes are pretty complex pieces of equipment, but nobody's forcing you to buy anything outside your budget. High end bikes are built with a lot of the same materials and tech that are used to build F1 cars, rally cars and planes. You can buy a brand new $600 bike in the same way you can buy a $15,000 car - it'll get you from A to B, but it won't be a rally car and will break if you thrash it off-road. But in the trail/enduro market for example, what you get for $2-3k now is actually a legitimately better bike than the best bike you could buy 12 years ago.

Furthermore though, nobody owes it to you that you "should" be able to afford a sport. I don't complain that I can't afford car racing or heli skiing or whatever - that stuff just costs a lot of money and if you don't have the money you can't do it. It's not a defect in the industry.

 @Socket: I've got a nice bike and a decent bike, so no complaining from me personally, but I've also been at this many years and am somewhat desensitized to sticker shock. It's newer folks who have a hard time swallowing the cost of a decent bike. I mean sure, just settle on a Walmart bike or a sub-$500 box bike from Cube and mountain biking is cheap and accessible for most, right? Hope you don't have ambitions to really thrash that thing though, because it likely won't hold up to the abuse for long.

Anyway, I don't really care who rides a bike or who doesn't. I hate crowds.

 I'm not sure these are limitations to anyone who is truly passionate about the sport. As @grizzlyatom put it so eloquently, at the heart of the sport is mind of matter. Expensive helps reduce the matter side but not the path. I have been riding for 21 years and did not have a pair of bike shoes or shorts until 3 years ago. It didn't stop me from racing, or putting thousands of km's on my low end bike. I am now in a position to have nice things including a nice bike, but if my financial position dictated, I would drop it all and find a cheap hard-tail to shred on. It would not remove me from the sport.

That being said, I do have gripe with the unnecessary cost of bike items and maintenance cost when you do end up with a decent bike. It's pretty easy to amass a $1000 bill during winter maintenance.

 @Adamrideshisbike: I had a newish Commencal meta then bought a mint condition 2009 Specialized sx trail for just $465 this year, why, because I always wanted one. I put on my bars and 1by10 and it whipped my expensive new Commencal. I sold that and got used to the extra 5lbs of weight. Still going hard all over BC.
It’s up to the buyer if they want to get sucked into spending big money.

 @LAM: u a G

 @LAM: Yes, it seems that pinkbike comments request you to price your bike according to your skill level. You are only allowed to ride a 7k bike if you are pro. My skill level is about a 3.5k Canyon. Not even a 4k Commencal, I do not shred hard enough. My skills will never go up, buy my disposable income did. So I am riding Yetis and whatever. And I like it.

 the only ones asking that question are people from the industry...

 this...

 @jzPV: Asking what donhjr said or what the article asks? Because industry 100% want mountain biking to be more mainstream (which might be what your saying) .

 I see your point and definitely resonate with it at times,, but to offer something of a counter point... I'm involved with the trail building efforts in my town and I'll offer my perspective. Mountain biking has helped me tremendously to deal with stress, build healthy habits, meet new people, support local businesses, and more. This is something I truly want to share with my community because I think it will make it a better place and slowly, over time, make people healthier, happier, and better all around. So yes, I work very hard to grow the sport, build trails, and get more people on bikes - especially people who may be excluded because of the high cost of entry, because I think they may also have the most to benefit from involvement. When there's a big influx like there has been during covid, there's going to be growing pains, but at least in our community I think more riders will ultimately bring with it more pros than cons.

 "If you build it, they will come" the Field of Dreams cliche... but flipping this around "if they come, you must build it". As in if the crowds start to overrun a riding area, it's an indication that more trails can be built, and probably ought to. MTB is a great sport and there is tons of land for this sport. Good for kids, families, and communities... Of course this is just a simple way of looking at it, so much more depth to this discussion. BUT one fact is that there is something irreplaceable about being able to enjoy riding without the sense that there's anyone in front of or behind you, that you're riding through a natural world undisturbed... More trails is the answer, it has to be in some kind of direct proportionality to overall participation (because no one gets into the sport to constantly be aware of and cognizant of other riders). I show up to my local trails, NO CARS in the lot: ok cool A COUPLE OTHER CARS: Ideal. FULL HOUSE WHOLE FAM DAMILY: much less than ideal

 @jfleming10: Great point. However with the experience in my community, I'm somewhat less optimistic. There was and is a very small group of dedicated people who build (illegal) trails and maintain them. These trails are the reflection of their "vision" and are in parts quite hard to ride with big, non straight gap jumps. Enduro bikes and ebikes have led to a huge trend since and tons of people use trails in that area, most of them don't care at all about maintenance or even trail etiquette and treat these delicate illegal trails just as a bikepark. Some lines were even altered to be easier, jumps were torn down and build smaller (and worse), which is ridiculous. If I can't ride something I build my own line or practice until I'm able, but I won't ever destroy the work of others. Some guy who is not originally from here even led journalists from magazines around these trails and they printed a story with GPS files! That was followed by a huge influx of riders from other regions and it all went downhill from there...officials closed trails and put up signs with threats of fines and everything. Even if there will be a legal trail center, which the ranger told us is unlikely, I doubt these original difficult lines will be tolerated. So for us and a handful of others all the work was pretty much in vain because of mountain biking becoming mainstream. Without a proper plan how to realise legal mountain bike areas in the state and enough space to adequately build trails I won't see a difference here anytime soon.

 @jzPV: In our city, the more people involved, the more the municipal government wants to keep it "safe and inclusive". Nice words to anyone who doesn't want challenging trails.

 Yeah, coulda fooled me with the implication that mtb isn't mainstream now... especially with the influx of covid riders. My local has never been more blown out.

 @jzPV: @jfleming10 - We had a very similar situation happen here as what happened to @jzPV Small spot for dirt jump trails. A couple lines that were challenging but nothing like Catty/Posh/East Side. With Covid we saw a big increase in people finding the spot. Instead of telling them to get lost we build a roller / pump / table line that so many people enjoyed and it cultivated skill and interest in riding bikes. But the knowledge of it became to big and the trails were recently plowed. It was great to see new riders of all ages (4-50) trying something new but also frustrating that very little knew the etiqutte or respected the amount of work that was done and care put into the spot. I'm sure you guys know that making the big stuff is easy. It's the little roller/table line that took most of the work as you would have to make constant updates based on where you would see tire tracks going. IMO, difficult lines are what make riding as awesome and unique as it is. It gives better riders something to enjoy, mid-levels riders something to improve upon and beginners that excitement to get into riding. And all riders should respect the levels others are at.

@jfleming10 - I wish more towns were like yours. You list the reasons why they should be unfortunately many do not have that same outlook. Meanwhile there are plenty of courts and fields for ball sports and skateparks for skateboarders (all of which are great but...)

 Agree with #4. I'm totally cool with newbies, we all were once, but I really don't like "families with little kids" all over the damn place. Had two different fams with like 5 or 6 yr olds on a big fast Blue flow trail last week. And of course they were stopped in the middle of trail bc they were in way over their heads. Lovely.

 @mybaben: I have never seen a family with little kids on a black or double black holding up traffic.

 @mybaben: You don't like them? Sounds like you need to rethink your perspective. Big blue flow trail sounds like a good trail for all. Gotta push yourself as a rider sometimes, which is what these families might have been doing. Have you ever ridden a trail where you've had to get off your bike and check stuff out? And if they made you have to stop to wait or slow down that is fine. Plenty of riding to be had.

 @acrowe: lol. So true. Not even on a blue jump trail. It's almost like blue trails are meant for novice riders and are not always the best place to come flying down at full pace.

 @mybaben: I dunno man, seeing a family with 6 years old hitting a blue at a bike park is pretty rad.

 @mybaben:

Families are out with their kids because there no playgrounds, little leagues or amusement parks to take them to right now.

 New flow trails and boring because the build them as lame XC trails and call them flow. Another problem is that trail difficulty ratings are totally off. Green trails have been labeled blue etc. This leads to beginner riders and non mountain bikers to believe that they are more skilled than they are. When they ride other trails properly rated and they can't ride them this leads them to making the trail easier and/or change the trail rating is enough people complain.

 1. I guess it depends on the bike park, but out of the three lift serve places I have been, all of them had easy options that even a novice can ride.
2. $40 lift ticket is like 1/3 the price of Disneyland. If you add in the cost of renting a bike, probably still cheaper than "the happiest place on earth". A $500 bike and $50 helmet is all you need.
3. Bike, helmet, what else is needed?
4. I mostly pick unpopular trails. Usually they involve lots of pedaling, so I get away from people.

@acrowe: I nearly ran over a kid, guessing 10 years old, with no supervision on a black trail this weekend. He got to the first rock garden and stopped. If I was there 5 seconds later he would have been out of sight until it was too late for me to stop. This happens to me on that same section of trail probably every 10 times I ride it. That is just that ONE spot of the trail. That doesn't include the next 5 minutes of trail that I am being held up by more novice level riders, which I consider the price I pay for going to an amusement park (bike park).

 @WestC0astWanderer: I honestly agree that trail ratings are kind of screwy. Some bike parks order the difficulty of the trails within the various categories, so there will be 5 blue trails, but the easiest blue trail is listed first and the hardest at the bottom...

Around me, the variation in what is considered a "black diamond" is absolutely nuts. Some black diamond trails have massive slabs, huge roots, and gnarly drops... others have like a few rocks after the corners...

It's hard for a beginner to know what they are getting into.

 @bikekrieg: This is why I got one of those annoying cow bells for my bike. If I see others at the trailhead whom I do not know, I flip the bell on for the fast sections. Just today it saved me from nearly running into someone hiking up the trail with their bike, a couple hikers, and some new to the sport types checking out line choices. It might not be great for my peace and quiet, but it gives other trail users time to respond to my coming down the trail, and I don't have to bail at the last second while hoping that I don't run anyone over.

 @WestC0astWanderer: this is a hot topic in my area. There is a lack of consistency between trail systems that is a real hazard for beginner and intermediate riders, and an annoyance for experts. It seems apparent that the ski area model with four categories isnt really sufficient.

The whistler method of labeling flow/tech/xc is a good start, and I'd like to see it in more places. I think part of the problem is the grading criteria aren't necessarily capturing what makes a trail difficult, and some trails have had their ratings bumped up (presumably) due to being more remote or more committing, as opposed to actually requiring bike handling skill.

 @CaptainBLT: Generally trail ratings are specific to trail system. My local spot we follow the imba system. some of the blues are actually harder to clear but the only trails with truly steep downhills, larger drops (even if optionial) and heavy exposure are labeled as a black. if they did that at my other main spot everything but one trail would be labeled black And it would be impossible to discern the actual progression of the system. There the labeling is purely at the community’s discretion.

 Its always about race..

 Come to nz. Theres all kinds of people riding flash new or cheap old bikes here. Dont have to buy in to the new shi7.

 @Thirty3: It's the flag in your bio - there's a reason race plays into it like it or not.

 @Thirty3: No one is immune to propaganda including yourself. What do you even mean by minds of "the weak" lol

 This is not at all the case where I live.

 @Thirty3: it’s not about race but rather income level. It just so happens that the highest earners globally are white. No shame to feel about it, these are systemic issues biking cannot solve on its own but it’s ignorant to ignore it.

 @Thirty3: When you have long standing systemic racism that leads an entire group of people staying in a lower income class, it suddenly becomes race.

The local, retired, pro basketball player is one of the few black mountain bikers I know.

 It's definitely an upper class white sport. I don't know how that can be argued. Hopefully that will change and open up to folks that don't have as much free time and expendable income. That is a change I could support.

There does seem to be a lot more females riding then when I started 20+ years ago which is pretty cool.

 Wait what?

Here in Switzerland its totally mainstream.
After the lockdown, ive never seen so many people on a MTB and on the trails

We've got a lot of problems in our forests right now, with the hunters, rangers, forest owners etc...

and the chairlifts are over filled with people.

thats how i see the scene in switzerland

 I am at a level where it's great for my body (except for my horrific looking shins), but that might change once I start going to bike parks regularly. As far as bank balance, coming off motorcycles it's a (slight) improvement!

 @Hamburgi: And here Mt Stromlo has never been so busy in winter.

 This guy is onto something

 Def not a place to go for beginners.

 Pinkbike comments put me off of riding more often than not. I've been riding for years, Pinkbike gives me the impression that 90% of the riders that aren't in my local are crybabies.

 @RonSauce: If PB represented all riders certain brand positions would be flipped. The vast majority of mountain bikers aren't as Levy puts it “Pinkers” or whatever he said. PB is the squeaky wheel.

 Then they discover mobilitEbikes........

 This is always pushed by the industry in sports like this. Basically the big companies want us all to be part-time salesmen, full time sport embassadors for them. They give you a hyped up "support the industry" or "do it for the culture" talk and act like you are getting some profit shares.

Keep in mind the NFL is still currently making efforts to be even more massively popular. 90% of the population can be fans and they will still push for the last 10.

 As an ultra runner...I totally agree. While I have worked into some decent gear over the years, it wasn't always that way. I did a triathlon on a free bike and crap shoes. Ran 50 miles on a pair of shoes I paid $50 for and used a hand held bottle. Cost of entry is nearly nothing.

And yet...trails are empty. Americans don't like to work.

 @JSTootell: Seems most will work to cook up excuses. lol

I was a dirtbag trail runner for years, then a dirtbag mountain biker (in ragged out running gear, $20 helmet and $600 bike) and I'm now a reasonably equipped trail runner and mountain biker. And, yes, once you get a 1/2 mile past the crowded trail head and the smell of perfume and hairspray (always cracks me up), you can have the trails mostly to yourself.

Of course YMMV.

 Casey Stoner wuz robbed!

 @roma258: Stoner was one of the OG Aliens.

 @JSTootell: For sure, it would have been so cool to see him mix it up with Marquez the last couple of years. Rossi's been cooked for a solid 5 years and Lorenzo lost his juice. It's been a boring couple years, though now some contenders are finally stepping up....and Marquez broke himself.

 @billyballa33 - cheap and minimal space requirements - this is why I thought street trials would become more popular. You can get a bike for cheap and ride anywhere, even in a garage or basement. BUT, it's not easy and it takes a LOT of practice, and for most, that's a high barrier. Trials seems like the best thing for skill development other than riding on a pump track, but pump tracks are scarce.

 @albert03: I agree. When I have more time in a year or so when life settles down a bit and my little kids are a tad older I’m going to get a trials bike. I like practicing some of that type of riding on my regular mountain bike but don’t have the time to do that and ride for fitness...trials skills are so useful and very cool IMO

 I agree with most of what you said, but I take issue with the ball-sport part. One thing all ball sports require is another participant, which tends to be easier to find in densely populated areas. One of the big reasons I started riding bikes was cuz the next nearest kid to me was miles away.

 that is 100% accurate!!! I never see so many people on the trails in my life in México, seriously I miss the time when only a bunch of guys where outthere in the wild

 It’s a supply chain issue... that’s why most bikes won’t be back in stock until the end of the year

 @Zimbaboi: definitely both. LOTS of people who are bored wanting to ride a bike, and less of them available. My GF was in the market for three during Covid to keep her and her kids busy (and seeing how much I like it).

 Wait,does that mean you sold all your bikes for a the same price you bought them?!

 @nozes: pretty much,.. always did good service on them, upgrade a bit, and 7 years old bike does not loose that much value...

 @Spiral23: Good job! Most of us are happy just to make half of what it was worth new after a few seasons.

 @nozes: thats why my bikes are usually used, same for cars

 Fatter people go up slow but go down faster......

 Maybe in your friends case this is true. However, most people saying this type of thing have £1,000 I-Phones, 65" wide-screen TVs and new shiny cars on lease. It's all about what you choose to spend your money on. I choose to spend my money on bikes and I do that by not spending money on other things. Can't have everything unfortunately.

 Stop trying to convince your "friends" that they need a $2000 bike?

You don't need that kind of bike to enjoy riding. Put any first time mountain biker on a $10,000 bike and they still wouldn't have a chance of keeping up with me on a sub $1000 bike. So why convince them to spend all that money?

 I can relate with #2.

It's also the perceived sense of danger as well. I know a lot of people who will never give mountain biking a chance because they've heard "mountain biking is dangerous".

 @MrGouda: I'd say they're right seeing as in the last year I had a broken elbow and torn rotator cuff from separate wrecks. My two riding buds are out right now (broken foot, dislocated hip). That's just the way she goes!

 Yup, look at ubiquitousnes of BMX a few decades ago. Single speed, steel, cheap. Every kid was on one.

 Seriously tho.... overly sanitised trail centres with nerfed out trails

 @nojzilla: that’s depressing

 Agreed. Years ago I used to live in an area that was pretty flat and had very few interesting trails or features so I had ZERO interest in mountain biking ... until I moved to BC! Once I tried biking on trails on a mountain I was hooked!

 Where I live its pancake flat but, we used to have miles an miles nice tech an flowy forest single track made from left over moto enduro races. Almost pump track like. When lines got too muddy, (it rains a LOT here so we ride in the wet) instead of repaired they are replaced with contractor built flat lifeless gravel all weather paths that take 3 or 4 attempts to get running any where near safe an then another 4 or 5 years for the gravel to bed in (NO exaggeration) by that time the trails are dead again.Ive volunteered with the local trail club but they're hands are tied by the forestry comish that really have NO clue what makes a good trail.
Yeah its depressing
Even when travelling to the hills of the Welsh holy land, many forrestry trail centres are the same.
Thank fk for some locals only lines

 "its pretty much the only sport I know were youtubers are the top dogs instead of the fastest ridersor the riders that are pushing the limits of what can be done on a bike."

That's a good point. I think the lack of traditional infrastructure (TV contract, large crowds at events) leaves kind of a void that Youtube and Red Bull kind of fill in. But that makes it more personality driven than necessarily performance driven. Basically you're relying on the stars to create their own content, instead of having a whole ecosystem to create content around the stars.

 It's not like youtube personalities are being pushed by anyone. They made videos,their audience found them, and the sponsors followed. It's really the fault of the riders not capitalizing on that. Sam Pilgrim did and he has a huge channel. I love rampage and world cup racing but the youtube personalities reach a completely different audience which helps introduce new people to the sport

 @vntim: like I said. Its the only sport where people rather see middle of the road riders, like bkxc or those mo and Hannah . I mean , i do understand why people see them " they are at a level I can attain and I can relate to them". Yes, youre correct.. Sam pilgrim is amazing also skills with phil is super legit and I enjoy watching him. They make me wanna push myself. But different strokes for different folks.

 This, absolutely, at least in pioneering communities. Mike lives and rides here in Bellingham - frankly, it's hard to find another sport that's this mainstream. I'd say we have a lot more mountain bikers than tennis players or golfers now, and even though we're right down the highway from Mt. Baker, I'd be surprised if there were a ton more skiers than mountain bikers in town.

If you're at the hardcore high end of the sport, testing 8k bikes for a living, it's probably easy not to notice that - but the fact that our trails association (WMBC - be sure to donate if you come visit) is about to break ground on a 140 stall parking lot on the south side of Galbraith is a pretty good indicator for where things are going. Or that there is a very successful coaching company (March Northwest) putting on summer MTB camps for probably close to 200 kids this summer (and that's after reducing group sizes and capacity for COVID) - and that they have built a team of a couple dozen teenage coaches locally. Or that we have 8 bike stores that do significant MTB sales volume. Or that we now have a set of dirt jumps, two dirt pump tracks, a Velosolutions-style asphalt pumptrack about to open, and a number of other pumptrack projects in progress.

All that in a mid-sized college town with plenty of other recreational opportunities. It's so mainstream that our elected representatives decided to devote significant resources to a recreation easement on Galbraith. It's a virtuous cycle - we get more people into the sport, we end up with more trails (both because those people contribute time and/or money, and because the numbers are so big now that we are an important stakeholder group when it comes to planning and access), which feeds an ecosystem of local stores and services and volunteerism, which broadens opportunity for more people (and more diverse groups of people) to get into the sport. And then you look around other communities in the PNW and you see the same thing.

Sure, all the dedicated high-end stuff costs a lot of money. But compared to skiing/snowboarding, or wakeboarding, or horseback riding, the barriers to entry are pretty low. The shit-eating-grin-per-dollar ratio is one of the more favorable ones among action sports, and because the sport is year round (at least around here) and not all that conditions dependent (unlike, say, wind/kitesurfing or skiing), it's a pretty reliably awesome thing to add to your quiver.

Nope, it's not as cheap as running, or hiking, or recreational soccer or softball, but do claim it's not mainstream is a hot take that's about a half decade past its expiration date.

 @g-42: Yes 99% of the faces are white, and they drove their 2019 Tacoma with a Recon rack to park in the dollar lot.

Its only mainstream for upper middle class white people that live in upper middle class white towns. I fall into this category too , but c'mon guys...lets be real.

(full disclosure I have not finished the podcast episode yet)

 @g-42: I mean that sounds great, it really does, but I hope you realize you live in a bit of a bubble, right? I mean come on, how many medium sized college towns have not one, but two decent sized mountain bike manufacturers headquartered there? As far as the vast majority of the rest of the country goes, yeah MTB is definitely still quite niche. But it's growing by leaps and bounds. Coming from the motorcycle world, the dynamism and energy behind mountain biking is off the chart (meanwhile motorcycles are slowly dying).

But there's still a long way to go to reach the kind of virtuous cycle you're describing, at least in most places where people live.

 @roma258: Yep, it's a bit of a bubble - but it's only ahead of the curve by a few years. Open up Trailforks for Washington and Oregon and zoom out - there are a lot of trail systems (as in, full-on clusters of trails being developed by a local trails association) where there weren't before. Bellingham, Hood River, Darrington, the Methow, Leavenworth, Tiger Mountain, Duthie - that's the preview. I used to live in Austin, TX in the late 90s. MTB was definitely fringey; now there's a riding community in a place that's pretty unforgiving (too damn hot much of the year; limestone and sharp spiny plants and rocks everywhere; not a lot of public land to build on), and geez, there's now a lift served bike park in the Texas hill country serving both Austin and San Antonio. Duluth, MN is now a hub for mountain biking.

 @MikeyMT: We've got a long way to go before MTB is truly inclusive; yet the same can be said for all kinds of sports people would consider "mainstream". And there's progress on that front, which (as it is in all outdoor recreation), and while it is pretty slow and totally insufficient, it's a start. There's mainstream as in basketball (zillions of YMCAs, boys and girls clubs, school playground pickup leagues, what have you) or rec soccer - that's not the kind of mainstream MTB will ever be. But then there's the outdoor rec version of mainstream, like hiking - and I'd argue that MTB is rapidly going in that direction.

 @g-42: I agree with you. More trails and better bikes are helping. i thought Christina made the right point about scene (and Kaz's take is simply wrong), dude-bro scene is not inclusive and toxic in general.

 Lol

 Agree. I think everyone's FIRST MTB should be a HT (child or adult), I don't care where you live.

 I agree with this.. I heard the term 'forever bike' recently and id love that to be achievable

 @fatduke - I'm actually seeing more reverse snobbery - as in, people getting down on people who ride very nice bikes despite not having EWS-level skills.

 Thats slowly creeping in here too.

 In Vancouver and Toronto bike theft is a cottage industry and police will not actively investigate. The only time a stolen bike is recovered is when the owners find it listed for sale and sets up a sting .

 Buy GG, be part of the solution.

 Right? I think the plastic wrapping must give them extra flavor.

 @mikekazimer: I think it's sitting for months on the shelf till someone buys one.

 Most people don't like to exert themselves. And economy of scale for MTB hasn't been working. There's more people riding now then ever, yet prices just keep creeping up.

 Golf is easy, it can be watched as well as played, it's less work, and it's see as being more "refined".

Mountain biking is hard, painful, and dirty.

Golfers don't mountain bike.

 @nurseben: mmm Peaty, Needles, Stevie Smith (rip).... All golfers

 @jemscott: It's like people can't enjoy different sports eh

 i dont know man, all i know is he deleted his account, i guess he trascended beyond the realm of pinkbike comment section...