The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 24 - Why Even Buy a DH Bike?

Sep 24, 2020
by Mike Levy  
Art by Taj Mihelich


I've you've spent any time on a proper downhill bike, you'll know why we love 'em. All that suspension, traction, and geometry, combined with more reliable components, can turn seriously scary terrain into a good time, and any downhill bike on the market can make you feel like a World Cup pro. So how come we're wondering why you'd buy one?

The answer is obvious and the same reason you might buy anything: Because they're fun and that's all the reason you need. But thinking a bit more practically, as many riders must, does the modern enduro bike make more sense for anyone who's not planning on doing lift-assisted three-minute race runs on the weekends? After all, they won't hold most of us back on most trails, and they can be pedaled to the top of the mountain easily, making them much more versatile than a downhill sled. So if you want a capable bike and the most saddle-time for your money, an enduro machine might make the most sense.

Don't worry, the downhill bike isn't going anywhere, no matter how enduro it gets around here. We've also got a couple of the latest downhill rigs in for testing, so stay tuned for those.

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever else you get your podcasts.




THE PINKBIKE PODCAST // EPISODE 24 - Why Even Buy a DH Bike?
Sept 24, 2020

But what DH bike would you buy?

Hosted by Mike Levy (usually) and featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike Podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.

Previous Pinkbike Podcasts
Episode 1 - Why Are Bikes So Expensive?
Episode 2 - Where the Hell is the Grim Donut?
Episode 3 - Pond Beaver Tech
Episode 4 - Why is Every Bike a Trail Bike?
Episode 5 - Can You Trust Bike Reviews?
Episode 6 - Over Biked Or Under Biked?
Episode 7 - Wild Project Bikes
Episode 8 - Do We Need an Even Larger Wheel Size?
Episode 9 - Why Are We Doing a Cross-Country Field Test?
Episode 10 - Getting Nerdy About Bike Setup
Episode 11 - Are We Going Racing This Year?
Episode 12 - What's the Future of Bike Shops?
Episode 13 - Are Bikes Too Regular Now?
Episode 14 - What Bikes Would Pinkbike Editors Buy?
Episode 15 - What's Holding Mountain Biking Back?
Episode 16 - Who's Your Mountain Biking Hero?
Episode 17 - XC Field Test Insider
Episode 18 - Electronics on your Mountain Bike: Good or Bad?
Episode 19 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 20 - MTB Conspiracy Theories
Episode 21 - Stuff We Were Wrong About
Episode 22 - Does Your Riding Style Match Your Personality?
Episode 23 - Grim Donut 2 is Live!


266 Comments

  • 94 2
 Cause having a solid cheap dh bike (giant glory) to thrash shuttling or riding the lifts, keeps the pedal bike from getting too destroyed to ride the next day. I bought a cheap slightly used dh bike the day after I broke the frame on my pedal bike shuttling.

I ride the heck out of both of them.
  • 8 0
 Exactly. Even though my dh is worth more than my trail. Building up an old clapper too
  • 12 0
 @HaydukeLives yay, someone gets it
  • 39 0
 It “feels” different on a DH bike, maybe it’s the triple clamp forks, the geom or suspension set up. I ride both and wouldn’t take the trail bike to uplifts on Dh tracks regularly, it gets nailed. As someone who owns both I get constantly challenged by mates as to why I have a dh bike, not really sure why, if you can afford it and want one do it
  • 8 0
 100% agree...shuttling/park is hard on a bike. Definitely like having a dedicated rig for it.
  • 9 0
 I think there’s an argument for being able to run lighter duty parts and tyres on anything that you’re pedalling up or using on mellower trails too. And not have to muck around switching tyres for all-dayers or uplift.

And for proper DH stuff they’re better in every way. The powder ski analogy is a good one.
  • 3 0
 @commentsectiontroll: this times infinity.
  • 5 0
 @Altron5000: where I live ( BC Interior) that is not really true. Parks here are smooth and mostly flow. Trails are rocky and punishing. So if I have to chose DH casing ill get it on my trail bike. Or on both,... so I end up with one bike again.
  • 6 0
 True I use to never have to replace parts (I just did it for fun) on my DH bike when I still had it. I seem to be always working on my enduro type rig as it gets ridden hard as the "one" bike pedaling and plowing. If I had a DH again, the small bike would just last longer. Plus nothing feels as solid riding like a real DH rig.
  • 4 0
 Dh rig give me confidence more comfort and dont need to have dh casing or big brakes on my trails bike which make it easier to climb and do what the bike is intended to do.
  • 3 0
 This! Also as a heavier rider (usually 200-215 with gear) the added stiffness a dual crown fork adds when charging a fast, steep rocky and rooty line is unmatched. Mind you I’ve yet to try one of these new 38mm forks.
If I was under 180lbs with gear I feel would be more inclined to have a do-it-all 170-180mm trailbike... I mean freeride bike.
  • 5 0
 @Spiral23: That's not the case in the two places I've lived that have lift access reasonably close. Lift access has been as rough as pedal access. Even if it's smoother trails, in a day of riding you'll be getting ~ten times more descending with lift access compared to pedaling up. So still a lot more wear and tear on the bike. Less wear on the chain tho!
  • 3 0
 @kcy4130: exactly and at way higher speed than regular trail riding which add to wear on equipment
  • 2 0
 @Spiral23: makes total sense. For me it’s a question of casing AND tyre type. My DH/Uplift riding is steeper and faster as well as rougher, so I care less about rolling resistance and more about tyre support and grip (DH bike is Assegai/DHR in DH casing, Enduro is DHF/MinionSS Exo casing with slightly higher pressure.)
  • 12 0
 The real question is why buy a $10k trail/enduro bike and pretend its a DH clanking thru rock gardens that weighs the same as most DH race bikes that cost less. Slowly pedaling uphill in granny gear is ?
  • 3 12
flag dthomp325 (Sep 24, 2020 at 12:31) (Below Threshold)
 Problem is dh is heavy and slow on most trails. You're probably not bashing laps on double blacks all day even if you ride a ton of park. They are overkill for A-line flow style trails that people spend most of their time on. A 160-180 enduro bike will be better for what most people ride at most parks and if you're worried about ruining you're fancy race rig you can pick up an cheaper alloy park bike from a company like Commencal for much cheaper than a full dh bike.
  • 10 0
 @dthomp325: overkill on a-line? Dont think so far from it and A-line is the exception of flow trail as its smooth AF but freight train or other bike park jumps line are littered with brake bumps and nowhere better on a 170/180mm bike. On a dh I can do 3 days open to close non stop while on a enduro after 4 hrs I'll be dead.
  • 5 0
 @dthomp325: btw my dh bike is 31.25lbs so not heavy or slow
  • 1 0
 @Altron5000: for cheaper than a second bike you could get a second Wheelset and tires just for the park
  • 2 0
 @MattF51: Your frame takes a beating and can ovalize where the bearings sit. Cheaper short term, but you pay in the long run if your frame claps out.
  • 2 0
 @MattF51: Yeah, it’s still not cheap though, by the time you have wheels, tyres and a cassette (in my case an expensive sram one). And you’re forks and frame still take a beating. And the bike isn’t as good!
  • 93 4
 If you aren't held back by an Enduro bike on a downhill track then you are riding the wrong downhill track
  • 12 12
 100%. If your no-compromise DH bike isn't faster than your all-compromise enduro bike then your priorities are compromised. DH bikes are still the real mountain bikes - everything else is a pale imitation.
  • 58 0
 Anybody who’s ridden a DH bike on a proper DH trail knows nothing comes close! Plus they are super fun to ride #plow
  • 6 0
 Earlier in the season there was a double header race weekend at Blue Mountain in PA, enduro Saturday DH Sunday. We used the DH course for a stage of the enduro. I crashed on Sunday losing at least 10 seconds on the ground and was still 17 seconds faster on the same track in the same conditions on my downhill bike even with the fall. It’s no comparison. The trail bike lap FELT faster but that’s because I was way closer to the limit of the bike.
  • 29 1
 Why buy any bike? Because we see a purpose for it and have the money to do it. I just bought a DH bike. Did I 'need' it over my "enduro" bike? No. Did I want it? Yes.

Bikes are toys/recreation. There's no bad reason to buy one.
  • 23 1
 Not a comment directly on the episode content @mikelevy, but please consider publishing an audio transcript to go with your podcasts. It makes it accessible to all, and some of us prefer to read not listen. Cheers.
  • 4 0
 Yup, we'll look into getting it transcribed.
  • 5 1
 Reading banter....ew.
  • 4 1
 @RonSauce: you can read a 2hr podcast in like 10 minutes though.
  • 2 1
 @Socket: listening to idle chit chat and conversation is fine, reading transcriptions of it is not exciting.
But different strokes and all that.
  • 6 0
 @RonSauce: Yeah, it's not about enjoying the read as much as listening to the banter, but it also means that deaf and hard of hearing MTBers can still have a chance to consume it.
  • 19 0
 people always bring up how much enduro bikes have improved, but downhill bikes have improved just as much if not more. is my current meta am 29 as capable as my last downhill bike? yes, maybe even more capable - i rip everything in the bikepark on it and bring it up on days I want something playful and nimble. is it as capable as my supreme 29? hell no, I cant even describe how insane this bike is. its otherworldly. I feel like im playing a videogame when I ride it, just point it off anything and it goes. I'm blessed to live somewhere where the terrain is steep and gnarly enough to warrant bringing the big rig out at all, and I highly recommend anyone with access to this type of riding to try a day on a modern dh race bike.
  • 19 1
 Cuz nothin beats good 'ol DH racin'.
  • 17 2
 Why do you need a DH bike... nsmb.com/articles/paul-astons-210mm-do-everything-nicolai-g1 when this is the future of enduro bike.
  • 4 1
 This bike does look sick. Really well thought out. And if I could only have one bike, it might look like that.

It’s basically a more pedal friendly DH bike though right? It must weigh about the same. If you live in finale and regularly hit the alps I’m sure it’s ideal.
  • 15 0
 Cheaper used DH bike for endless park laps saves the good bike from undue wear and destruction.
  • 15 1
 When I see people at the bike park without DH bikes I just feel bad for them.
  • 13 1
 Maybe they're really into barspins?
  • 15 0
 @mikekazimer: It's usually Jerry and his brother on matching Hightowers safely making their way down the pro lines.
  • 3 1
 Not everyone wants to go Mach 2 down the mountain. For many, it's just a thrill to ride downhill for a long duration without the need to pedal. I feel bad for those that try to do Mach 2 on a low travel bike and find that their body is just getting rattled to pieces from the harsh impacts. But again, that's a small percentage of the bike park riders.
  • 3 0
 @SuperHighBeam: When you can't clear the jumps, and walk half the lines, you're either on the wrong bike, or the wrong trail.
  • 1 1
 @chriskneeland: I'll give you benefit of the doubt, if you can't clear the jumps, then you shouldn't be on the trail. If you walk half the lines then you're also on the wrong trail. I do not, however, agree that those shortfalls are related to the bike ridden. You don't need a DH bike for jumps. You do need a DH bike for drops. You don't need a DH bike to ride through gnar, you do however if you want to go through it fast. I'd even argue that you only need a DH bike for Black and Double Black in a big mountain environment. Everything else is plenty feasible for Trail and Enduro, and those trails make up the bulk majority of the trails on the mountain. So again, the DH bike is truly for a special case and best suited for riders in pursuit of that special case. Again regarding your statement about jumps and walking lines, that's more to do with rider skill than bicycle capability.
  • 10 1
 Most bike parks are built around trail/enduro bikes these days - which everyone has. They follow the cash and build them suitable trails. The guys with DH bikes have less and less terrain to ride as they smooth pave everything and put in endless jump trails. I DH'd for nearly thirty years now - first on my trail bike- it's all we had (proper DH bikes were just coming in) to my reg DH rig now. There is nothing like hammering with confidence on a full blown DH rig. But sadly, I find myself at the end of my DH days on my DH bike - the trail bikes(enduro) and the DH trails have come full circle. Todays enduro bikes are just a triple clamp away from being a DH bike and can handle 90% of a bike parks terrain.
  • 5 6
 95%

Our national DH champs (20-29 and 30-39 age groups have been won on burly enduro rigs(pumped up megatowers and spez enduros), while only the masters were on full DH rigs(and considerably slower); the juniors were all on DH rigs also ..but yeah..they're kids, what do do..they think blizz-ing DH bikes on city side-walk stairs or in the parks is a cool thing to do.
  • 3 1
 Yep at my local parks the black diamond trails are just huge jump lines. I got rid of my DH Bike because I only rode it 2-3 times per year.
  • 17 3
 @SeanC1: Come visit us north of the boarder and find out how wrong you are. Our bike parks are built around DH bikes. Sunpeaks is infinitely better on a DH bike, same goes for kicking horse, Fernie and even Whistler.

If DH races are being won on Enduro bikes, it's because the track isn't steep or fast enough.
  • 1 0
 @z-man: totally agree having a dh bike for park make you run a smaller trail bike which is more fun to ride and able to use lighter tire casing for easier climb. Myvoark is way better on a dh park even the flow jump trails
  • 10 3
 @eugenux: lmao. Clearly the track you are racing isn’t a dh track.

Guys be real FFS...the ews boys say it over and over, and dh bike is simply better on a real dh track. Period. It’s faster and feels better.
  • 7 8
 @nvranka:
Clearly have no ideea to what track our national champs have held on ...there is a 3 meter drop to a root infested ramp between 1.5 meters narrow, between 2 trees; and that's just one example..is hard as f*ck.
It is the ppl, the racers(not me), that feel they don't a bike bigger than 170-180mm. You got to realize that your perceived relation between current big enduro/trail bikes and current DH bikes is not the one from a couple of years ago when Sam Hill took 6th ar the Worlds on his Mega. In the meantime, the big enduro bikes have become much-much faster and I'm telling you, believe me or not, it is our skill that's stop us to access the full performance of these fast AF big-enduro bikes, not themselves. On normal DH trails, the only diff is the slighty bigger safety margin 200mm or more offers..but even that probably gets canceled by a 63HA 180-190mm Zeb forked big-enduro bike.
What I am saying...get real guys and get out of that comfy, cosy comfort zone of what riding you are used to and start open and test these new bikes. I'm telling you a 29er with a 180mm 38 is more bike than you'll ever need as an amateur/average rider.
  • 12 14
 @eugenux: you are wrong and clearly on the ‘amateur’ side of the spectrum if you believe the load of shit you just vomited onto my screen.
  • 9 11
 @nvranka:

I'm so sorry I offended your full racing skills and abilities. Best of luck to you my man at the DH world champs in Leogang in October. I hope to see you on the podium! big ups!
  • 6 9
 @eugenux: you’re arguing about travel as if that is the end all...you’re clueless bud. I don’t need to be on the podium of an international race event to see it.
  • 4 1
 @nvranka:

What are bikes if not geometry and susp. travel?
  • 1 1
 @nvranka:
Ffs, Maes won a DH on a 180mm lowered Fury.
  • 3 0
 The dumbing down of bike park designs is unfortunately a real thing that is happening at happening with more and more bike park designs. If you can't have fun in a downhill bike park with a DH bike then somebody has really failed with the design of it. There does seem to be a new trend of building bike parks for trail bikes to capitalize on the family crowd and these type of bike parks deserve to be called out as lame, unprogressive, and a rip-off for real downhillers.
  • 3 0
 @DoubleCrownAddict: Timberline bike park on Mt. Hood..after a decade of permitting it finally opened and is basically a family fun center, bike park light, where my big rig is dissapointingly overbiked, and is mostly used for the proper gnar at skibowl next door..
  • 3 2
 @nvranka: yeah i can smell it from here too. Dude's @sshole must get jealous from all the shit that comes out of his mouth
  • 9 3
 Question: Why are some brands so reluctant giving specifications that they undoubtedly are in possession of?
 
Several brands catering to the $10k high-end “nerd segment” are not stating bike weight, despite “light weight” and weight savings compared to previous generations being a central part of their marketing. I refuse to believe that a major brand like Specialized doesn’t know the exact weight of each model in any possible frame size and build configuration, so why not just give us that piece of information instead of all the smoke and mirrors BS? I am aware that weight tolerances play a role in this, but that could easily be handled by stating claimed wight with only one decimal and a +/- tolerance, or by just stating the highest weight within their tolerances (like car manufacturers do with rated engine output – no one gets upset if a model says 200 hp on the spec sheet but deliver somewhere between 200-210 in reality).
 
Another huge annoyance is the lack of geometry numbers and the new trend of ONLY providing effective top tube length and seat tube angle. Yes, those are generally more relevant than the actual numbers – but still irrelevant numbers, unless you actually ride with the saddle placed in the horizontal line in relation to the top of the head tube. I think it should be expected that buyers of expensive/niche bikes are also interested in details, so why not provide an additional length or angle and make it possible to calculate the REAL effective top tube length and seat tube angle, based on the individual riders preferred saddle height? Or make it even easier for everyone with a simple “enter your preferred center of bottom bracket to saddle measurement” calculation function on their website?
  • 1 1
 Do you own a building in Torrance?
  • 8 2
 Agree .. unless you have access to serious terrain with lift access, a dedicated DH bike won't see much use. I used to have a DH bike and a Enduro/trail bike (this was 10 years ago) .. .but as my days of riding gets smaller every year due to small kids a full blown DH rig isn't worth it ... my Megatower can handle it all ... including the 2-3 park days I do a year. Plus most DH bike have become dedicated RACE Bikes ... and a lot of bike parks around where I live are starting to cater more to Enduro bikes ... so more flow trails less gnar.
  • 4 0
 1hr away from the park and I can tell you I spent 28 days on the dh bike this year with a hopes at 30.... Next purchase will be an enduro or a very aggressive all mountain.
  • 7 0
 If you think of the percentage of the worldwide population that live within an hour or two of *big* terrain, it's no wonder the market for true DH bikes is vanishingly small. For most of us there's no way of justifying it, especially when modern enduro bikes are so capable. And if we're lucky enough to go somewhere big occasionally, it probably makes sense to rent.
  • 3 0
 @PinkStatus: sadly the popularity of Enduro bikes means some resorts are dumbing down the trails for that market. Like you I get 30 or so lift days a year but whether I take the DH it Enduro rig depends on the park I go to. It's about 50/50 right now as the rise of modern flow trails means the Enduro is often more fun.
  • 3 0
 @catweasel: Can you give some examples of which bike parks are dumbing down trails? I'm genuinely interested to know, so I don't accidentally go to one of those places.
  • 2 0
 @catweasel: I think good beginner trails are good for mountain biking.
  • 4 1
 I've ridden most of the colorado area parks both on various DH and enduro bikes. My 2 cents.

Trestle: DH bike on Trestle DH trail. nearly everything else is more fun on an enduro
Keystone: DH bike on Jam Rock and the drop zone. nearly everything else is more fun on an enduro
Steamboat: everything is more fun on an enduro bike, although a DH is ok on rawhide
Crested Butted: DH bike on Captain Jack's. nearly everything else is more fun on an enduro
Snowmass: everything is more fun on an enduro
Granby: everything is more fun on an enduro
Vail: DH bike on Old 9 Line. everything else is more fun on an enduro
Angel Fire: DH bike on Upper Boogie/Upper Supreme. nearly everything else is more fun on an enduro

You've got probably less than 10 lift served trails in the state suitable for a full-DH, plus a handful of shuttle-able private/secret/bootleg trails.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: have you ridden the new Telluride bike park? Also, I would say being able to huck to flat harder is always a plus of a DH rig
  • 1 0
 @wilbersk: I have been to the "old" Telluride bike park, but not the new one. Is it any good? The old one had short runs, but it was cool to ride the WC course.
  • 2 0
 @kcy4130: of the ones I've ridden:
Trestle, Snowmass, Vail : Enduro
Angel Fire, Granby, Keystone : DH
Steamboat : could go either way
Whistler : DH
Bike Park Wales : Enduro
The Alps stuff I've ridden is really variable, overall I'd prefer a DH bike but usually take my Enduro so I can ride out of the park too. The resorts I've ridden that were most DH oriented are probably Les Arcs and Les 7 Laux, I'd kinda add Pila cuz although most of it's doable on the Enduro it beats the crap out of you.
  • 6 0
 Where I live and ride the trails outside of the bike park hardly justify full enduro bikes but the bike park has some pretty wild stuff. Ended up deciding to get a used dh frame to build up for the bike parks and a short travel 29er for most the other riding.
  • 3 0
 Living in Boston this is what I’m leaning towards now. I don’t need a 160mm enduro bike for any of my regular riding that I’m lucky to get 1000’ of climbing in in 90 minutes, but I’m done with riding a Fuse at Highland and Thunder Mountain. Next year I’m going for a real DH rig unless I can be convinced otherwise.
  • 2 0
 @sjma: go for it I'm in the similar situation my trail networkniant rough enough for an enduro but my park is so much better on a full dh bike. You wont regret it.
  • 6 0
 If I lived in a mountain town with lift access id surely consider it. The feeling of a true DH sender on big mtn's is like no other. As for which one...So many good options. Perhaps a V10 or Pivot.
  • 8 0
 Enduro bikes aren't as capable, can't go XXL and DH bikes all-in-all are more fun. That's why you buy both.
  • 1 0
 Haha!
  • 4 0
 @mikelevy Question: Now that we are seeing companies put tools in the steerer tube and make it mounts on the underside of the top tube, how do Pinkbike tech editors carry their shit for rides? How do you mount stuff on the mounts on the underside of the top tube?
  • 6 0
 I've been using a WolfTooth B-Rad strap to hold a tube and tire lever. That's a good topic - we could definitely ramble on for a while about the things we do (and don't) carry.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: but do you have a banana guard? I mean I am assuming you do, going out on the trail with a full compliment of easily mounted tools is one thing, but an unguarded banana in your pocket or bum bag for sustenance, well I don’t even want to think about it

www.hartsofstur.com/eddingtons-banana-armour-56bg.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwh7H7BRBBEiwAPXjadp9CbEkkDwlAX-zsDNiMNrU_IrYM9Ff6G6bDgdGlUG8zSCTwEfP0WBoCzEAQAvD_BwE
  • 2 0
 I strap a tube and levers to every test bike, use a OneUp pump (with zip-times, tire patches, super glue, plugs, 12-speed link, and some bills in the handle) mounted beside a bottle cage, and put a small folding knife and the same rusty, 20-year old Park Tool multi-tool in my bib pocket. There might also be a small pancake in a different bib pocket.

I need a setup that I can move from bike to bike pretty easily - sometimes that's the last thing I want to do before a ride - so I almost never use any sort of integrated/hidden/clever storage tool, even when they come on the bike as SWAT does.
  • 4 0
 I sold my DH bike last year and spent a week in Whistler last week. I split my time evenly on my enduro bike, a pretty stock DH bike and rented a few higher-end demo bikes. If you only ride park 10 days a year I'd suggest you just rent a high end DH bike and enjoy yourself. It costs a fair bit but the economics work better than owning the same rig (especially with the damage waiver!) and I had no problems with a decent setup for my riding & size.
  • 6 2
 If I had space for 3 or more bikes and had regular affordable access to a lift accessed bike park, I would consider an affordable DH bike, otherwise in my opinion it is not a realistic option. Currently in my situation i have space for two bikes. One of those bikes is my daily commuter and the other one has to be a do it all MTB. Plus I have a personal preference for riding my bike up and down, and abhor shuttling, Before I had a family and in my youth when i was full of piss and vinegar I owned a DH bike and used it for everything. It was fun and I enjoyed that bike. But years passed, technology improved and todays trail bikes are super capable , more versatile and cheaper to own. A DH bike is a luxury.
  • 2 0
 Understand your point of not needing a dh bike but I think you can easily find a dh bike way cheaper than any all mountain bike out there, might be a luxury if not fitting where you live or ride but expensive I dont think so.
  • 1 0
 @ybsurf: Given that my view point is that a DH bike is a luxury, pretty much means that any money spent on one is considered expensive. DH bikes are fun, not denying that, I owned one for 7-8 years and rode the hell out of it. But If I can only own one bike, I will buy the trail or AM bike everyday of the week and twice on Sundays even if the DH bike is cheaper. The lack of versatility and fit to my needs has a steep cost associated with it beyond the MRP of the DH bike.
  • 5 0
 If DH racing is the Formula 1 of bikes, then Enduro must be the World Rally Championship. High end equipment that works on a wide variety of terrain and looks (sort of) similar to the Fiesta on the dealer's lot.
  • 1 0
 Yup, agreed. Wish I had said that in the damn podcast.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: Me too. You'll get 'em next time. Keep up the good work; always look forward to hearing what you all have to say.
  • 2 0
 I always thought a better analogy would be that DH bikes are like trophy trucks....but yes, enduro is more like Rally compared to that. Are trophy trucks practical?... hell no. But I bet they’re a ton more fun to go Mach stupid in than that WRX that you can still take to the grocery store. DH bikes are a specialist tool, nothing wrong with wanting or owning one. Fun doesn’t need to be practical.
  • 4 1
 This topic also begs the question of : 'Just how massive are enduro bikes going to get?' Is a Rockshox boxxer stiffer than a zeb, or a Fox 38? Enduro bikes weigh as much nowdays as DH bikes with weight weenie builds.

The new Intense, and Norco DH bikes have pretty steep looking seat tubes, they'd probably pedal alright. Does the slack seat tube angle on a DH bike do anything for you, when you stand up through rough terrain?
  • 3 0
 I have the same question for trail bikes. Sure, it might have 140mm of travel, but that 160mm fork changes everything... is that a trail bike now?
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy:
For sure, and a Minion or a Magic Mary up front can make any bike feel so much more capable in the rough stuff. Probably the easiest way to add weight to a bike unfortunately.
  • 6 2
 What eventually led me to sell my DH bike was realizing that at Mammoth it forced me to hit the same few trails, whereas a 6 or 7” sled with wide gearing that climbs decently meant I rode all the good trails.
  • 2 3
 Uh what? I’ve ridden mammoth probably 15+ times, a few on my am when lifts were closed early season we climbed, all other trips on dh. Ride all the trails I want to every trip....

Are you saying you’re too lazy to climb the dh a bit or what?

Bullet DH / flow / velociraptor require the most effort to get to, but super doable on a dh...maybe out of saddle for a few minutes.

You don’t want a trail/enduro bike on bullet dh / velociraptor....sure you could use one, but you can’t ride those trails at speed with one.
  • 8 1
 Because DH bikes are beautiful !
  • 1 4
 No really a valid argument when their are equally beautiful and insane looking trail and enduro bikes on the market now. The double crown fork is definitely a unique cool factor though.
  • 6 0
 Lol, ride an enduro bike for 1 lap at Whistler or Sun Peaks, then ride a DH bike and the answer will be obvious.
  • 1 3
 For you, no doubt. But not for many, many other riders.
  • 3 0
 Word. @mikelevy Are you seriously saying given the choice between a dh bike and an enduro rig at Whistler people would CHOOSE the enduro? Look, I get that a DH race bike is too specialist for most people to justify owning...but to say they’re not more fun, fast, capable, stable, and confidence inspiring than something lesser is fallacy.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy... and yes, I’m speaking as someone who owns both a modern dh bike and a burly enduro rig.

PS, sorry for the double post...no idea how that happened.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: They'll know the answer - most will ride the enduro/trail bike - it suits them better on the trails they'll ride.. A DH rig wouldn't be justified under them. And sadly, the Bike parks are closing ranks on the dedicated DHer.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: Doubt if you gave most people the choice that they'd choose an enduro rig in a bike park. As an everyday do it all'er, then for sure. That's like saying most people would choose to drive a stock Porsche in an F1 race. They're both fast and awesome but one clearly has an advantage given the specific circumstances.
  • 8 1
 I Only Ride Park
  • 1 1
 YOu must live at the base of a lift accessed or shuttled mountain. That is fortunate, but that is also not the majority of us. Visiting those venues for most of us is a luxury that we do very infrequently for a multitude of reasons.
  • 1 0
 @SuperHighBeam: Pajarito Mountain is 10min up the road from me!! stupid virus shut it down for the season though
  • 2 0
 Having started on a DH bike and working down towards trail bikes I can definitely say my skills are lacking line choice, just used to not having to worry about it. I also commonly over send the 140mm bike. But I can also say that I have the feeling of having fought many knife fights with a claymore.
  • 5 0
 Look how many Enduro bikes did well in the DH events of the Crankworx Summer Series, they can definitely cope these days.
  • 2 0
 Skiing or boading analogies work well, some folks only ride piste, other ride pow, BC, race gates, and ride big lines. When I skied and boarded, I had a big quiver, multiple boots, etc...

I guess because bikes are so expensive, haerder to swap out during use, and require a lot more upkeep than skis/boards, folks try to make them cross over as much as possible.

My DH days are done, all I need is a trail bike and an enduro bike.
  • 1 0
 well stated. And yes bikes are much more expensive that ski/board setups. Looking at what $800-$1200 per board setup, and $3000-$6000 per bike, that's a big difference.
  • 1 0
 And an E bike once you get old.
  • 1 0
 @steveski: There you go in that case plan on $4000-$8000, or like 4 nice snowboard setups for one bicycle.
  • 3 0
 I love my dh bike but I live next to a bike park(in Christchurch NZ) and also have numerous trips to Q'town each year so it just makes sense to have one.Plus my trail bike should last a little longer too.
  • 2 0
 If I frequented shuttle accessed mountains or bike parks once or even twice weekly I would definitely own a downhill bike. I used to own a Santa Cruz V10, but eventually I found myself doing far more trail and XC riding and decided it was better use of funds to sell the DH rig and put that money towards a higher quality Trail Bike. I've also realized that the terrain best suited to downhill bikes (not to mention the speed) is just not something I'm really that comfortable with and those features are not of much interest (risk management). That said I do think probably 70% of trails frequented by DH bikes past or present are very suitable to modern Enduro bikes. All said, there is a niche circumstance where a DH bike is awesome. I would love to ride a 29er V-10 on a big mountain, I'm sure that would be awesome, but I don't do that but once or twice a year these days, hence a rental makes a lot more sense. That said, my 130mm travel modern geometry Trail bike meets my riding needs very well for 90% of my riding. I would eventually, however, like to expand my bike quiver to include a fat bike (need one for riding snow in Alaska, currently get by with 27.5 plus studded on my trail bike), and an Enduro Bike. The Deviate Highlander seems like an awesome option. Don't think I'll ever have a desire to own a 180mm travel bike, but 160mm could be nice for the bigger gnarlier rides.
  • 4 0
 If I don't record my rides with a GoPro how will I get karma on reddit (r/mtb) for posting "my first time hitting this drop" videos
  • 2 0
 Guess I'll join the misfits here then... I downsized my burly enduro bike (Knolly Delirium) and got one of the crazy capable new short travel trail bikes (Banshee Prime V3 set up 130R/160F). I find this bike rides everything in the bike park and does flow trails even better than an enduro. Then my other bike will always be my dh bike (Commencal Supreme XL)... there is just nothing like it and I hated the feeling of the compromise, the "almost as good" that I got when pushing the Knolly to it's limits. Besides my injury count when way up when I started riding enduro style rides on a too fast bike... too much bike on an unknown trail seemed to be my personal recipe for broken collar bones and ribs.
  • 2 0
 Any u boys who like to ride hard, then drink hard; as in all fall, winter and spring (drinking that is) - ok I admit, summer too, AND stand above 6ft know what it's like huckin DH while weighing WELL noth of 200lbs. I'm not saying fat. . . Just burly AF (that's what I tell myself). Its this select group that can understand many bikes just start coming apart after a few hard lift days. This is where the pigs shine. Also; u can hack a few darts if you're sporting a triple clamp fork and u dont get too many horrified looks. Sooo many dudes this year were saying "man my fox 38 enduro set up can do anything ur dh bike can." And I'm like "yeah it can - with your 160lbs of human on it - sure. Let me ride it." - birds chirping. Ya I get it, I wouldn't let me break my bike either.
  • 3 2
 Only way I could see myself justifying a full DH bike would be if I lived in a town where lift access happens on a regular basis... My Slash let's me hit everything I used to do on my DH bike and I can pedal it up a hill.. Yes, DH bikes are fun... But even less practical than ever.. I guess if I was looking for a DH bike, I might look at the Session... Maybe a V10...
  • 2 0
 I got a top fuel, a remedy and a session. My GF has a fuel ex and a slash. You get the bike for what it's intended to do. The session fucking rips downhill, the Slash is no slouch, but there are no point of comparison. Is like comparing the slash to the remedy. Nowhere as playful. So, to each its own.
  • 2 0
 @HopeFbn: only sell Trek in your town? Nice quiver, btw.
  • 1 0
 @CircusMaximus: nah, there are few other brands, but I hate when sales person treat me like shit, so I just buy where they treat me nice.
I also buy a lot of components on one shop that carries other brands, still making my mind to get a Transition or something different. The Nukeproof Reactor looks like might be my next bike.

I have some other bikes tho, not only mtb.
  • 2 0
 @HopeFbn: I hear ya. I won’t bother with stores where the sales team cops attitude as soon as ya walk in.
  • 6 5
 I stopped listening once they started talking about reinstating skin suits.

I don't understand how you have a podcast about downhill bikes without having an actual downhill rider present!? This just some garbage echo chamber regurgitation from a some turquoise helmeted media enduro/xc hacks
  • 1 0
 Iam waiting for new bike and in the meantime I modified my old orange 224 with longer seatpost and sutible drivetrain and some lighter tires and it works...if your not in a hury on the way up,it will be fantastic on the way down..but it is not possible with dh bikes with ,,strange,,angles of seat tube..or go from the other end and put boxxers on megatower or np mega...like that nicolai g1...greg herbold used boxxers on his enduro bikes,and ex owner of mojo suspension use dh forks on his geometron...try them on grim donut..
  • 2 0
 YES! I owned a 222, 223, and 224 for that reason: The full-length seat tube. I used a wide-range cassette and not 1,500-gram tires. It worked okay for what I was doing at the time, which was just pedaling up a steep gravel road and bombing back down. Would obviously be terrible on any technical climb.
  • 1 0
 I’d love to own a DH bike, but the few times that I’d ride a DH bike It makes sense to rent, but only If more places rented DH bikes in my size ( xl or xxl) that we’re well maintained, with tubeless tires, cushcore, and the tires weren’t worn out I wouldn’t even consider buying one. But if I’m gonna buy a big travel bike I would have to get a 180mm pedal-able bike...
  • 1 0
 Got to agree with Levy on the brake lever thing. I've always run rear brake right hand - because I'm right handed. The reasons for them being the other way ( motorcycle history and hand signals for left hand drive roads) are immaterial these days imo.
  • 2 1
 I don't know why but I love the DH as a daily driver. Sure its shit to peddle, lots of pushing up hills...but... that feeling that your never going to push the bike past what it can do and the bike wanting more and more rough...priceless.
  • 2 0
 Can't argue that. You're ready for ANYTHING. And have no excuses...
  • 1 0
 You can get a tues with fox 40 and dhx2 tough wheels, downhill casings and spend under 2k used. That is a lot of bike, and no worries abusing the hell out of it. I see no reason not to have it vs incremental upgrades to a shockingly expensive enduro making it worse and worse for uphill. Put the carbon and lightweight stuff into an xc or tail bike for all the other riding involving distance and climbing. Best of both worlds. Right tool for the job.
  • 1 0
 I really think you guys should do a series of reviews of some great vintage bikes, DH and all. A lot of car vloggers do reviews and rides of vintage cars and they are interesting and popular, this would be the same imho. I will put it out there again, you can have use of my 99 Chuck CRFS, Darren Murphy's oil bike company, to text out if you want. Side note I sent a DM to Tim Hortons making them aware of your Pod Cast Grim Donut and all, for the sponsorship idea.
  • 4 0
 I'm puzzled to why the "DH" platform wasn't the first Ebike platform....200+mm
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer If you were not in the MTB industry, what would you do? Given you are from near Hartford, I would have said Insurance or attorney Razz

@mikelevy Same question, I would have guessed Tim Horton's franchise owner or investigative journalist in NYC.
  • 1 0
 @penguinni, ha, definitely not. I'm allergic to suits and ties. I'd probably be doing something in the ski world if I wasn't working with mountain bikes.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Fair enough. After hearing the podcast, wanted to mention it wasn't a slight. I guess it is more of an inside joke about Hartford. Since I'm from Fairfield County, I should be in finance by the previous logic, but pretty sure how much everyone's parents complained about finance drove their kids away from NYC finance Smile

I ended up as a Scientist on the West Coast. No tie required Smile
  • 2 1
 My first bike was a downhill bike and I started riding at age 23. Back then I saw downhill riding as an extreme sport like I see motocross, snowcross, or rafting. I didn't even compare other Mtb disciplines to downhill. It was like if you had a bike with a single crown fork, you were a cyclist. And cycling is not the thing I'm interested in. I get my adrenaline fix from full gas descents, not pedaling uphill. I agree that modern enduro bikes are capable enough with their burly single crown forks, but still a bit too spandex ish for my aesthetic eye.
  • 1 0
 Question for Brian, Sarah, Levy, Kazimer, and James, do you wear back protectors while trail riding? I heard the EWS requires that riders wear not only knee pads and a full-face helmet, but also a back protector. I considered purchasing the POC VPD back protector for when I go on trail rides, but didn't know if this was overkill. Any thoughts?
  • 1 0
 I have a Pivot FB 29.

Last week I followed a friend on an e-bike the whole day on shuttle-less trails. I did ok, sweaty climbs and great descents.

Today, I followed a friend on a dh bike in a pretty intense bike park (ste-anne, qc). sketchy descents.

« Follow me » was an okay proposition for the leader but line selection was not as obvious for the trailer as it was for the van.

So Enduro, to me, is a great compromise for a 1 bike quiver, but I don’t necessarily have the skills to lead in any situation.

Tomorrow I am taking my 10 yo son on blue trails.

I am looking forward to spending a great time with him, but I will be stupidly overbiked, whereas I feel a 120-130 trail bike would let me look to have more fun.

So at the moment, I am considering next season with an ok dh bike and an ok light trail bike for next season.
  • 1 0
 you can ride a ton of stuff on an enduro. They are so damn capable for sure. But everytime i'm at windrock. it reminds me why I bought a dh bike. its nice walking out at the end of the day with a bike still in once piece. rather than a clapped out enduro that needs a full tune up. Trust me. enduros are crazy capable, but they just don't take the abuse as well as a full blown dh rig.
  • 1 0
 Enduro Bikes are like DH bike?
Yes it is true until you sit and ride one than is not true anymore.
DH will never die. I spend days, month praising on how good and capable my Enduro mtb. First day i spend on a real and dialled dh bike i immediately think that i dont want to ride anything else.
It gives you that superpower to smdo everything you usually do, risking less and having 10 times more fun.
In addition i would also say whistler days really hurt small bikes.
  • 1 0
 I ride a Knolly Delirium 200/170 Mullet and a Knolly Fugitive LT 150/135

I have always said a DH bike is unnecessary buttttt this year I took my "big" single crown bike to a dual crown, and let me tell you the thing is a BLAST. JUmping, flow, and gnarly chunk it straight rips and I have zero desire to take it back to single crown and ride it that way. Honestly once I pulled the dropper and went to a 10 speed DH setup it is actually lighter or about the same as my Fugitive. With all that said I think the way to go is the free ride type bike like my Delirium that isnt't full DH. It is still very fun and playful.
  • 1 0
 I'm lucky enough to live within 1.5 to 2 hours of some of the best uplift bike parks in the UK and go to Morzine every summer. I don't need a compromised DH bike that I can pedal up a hill because I can always get a lift to the top of my favourite DH tracks and there's nothing that I can pedal to the top of locally that would need that much travel. I ride a lot of trail centres too but an enduro bike would be overkill at all of those so happy to take my hardtail or now my 140mm ebike.
  • 1 0
 I don’t think I’m worthy of a DH bike, but it sure helps me not get beat up in the bike park as much. On many runs it’s overkill, but it’s safer to ride fast and plain more comfortable on lap after lap.
  • 3 0
 Wasn’t Honda trying the ‘lets see what we can make without having to sell it’ game?
  • 3 0
 Can't believe you mentioned totem and sherman and not the all star Marzocchi 66! ;-)
  • 3 0
 Doh, sorry. I had so many great rides on that fork too.
  • 3 0
 Haven't listened to the episode yet, but it seems to me the answer is obviously "because N+1..."
  • 1 1
 What I’m hearing is that a dual crown enduro fork would create the total package for someone looking to smash on an enduro bike with the support and front end stiffness of a DH bike. I never thought that you guys would come around on that
  • 3 0
 Can't barspin or tailwhip that bad boy, so even though nobody here is doing that on their enduro you'll get lots of complaints!
  • 4 1
 im about half way through this podcast, and have yet to here about the topic!
  • 3 0
 the pinkbike podcast definitely rambles more than comparable ones.
  • 3 0
 @adrennan: I like the rambling!
  • 2 0
 @rob-chambo: the handful i listened to it felt like they were reciting the front page of the site for the first 15 minutes
  • 1 0
 @adrennan: Yeah, that's exactly what we do Wink But we'll be doing some different stuff soon to mix it up, more interviews and whatnot. Maybe Kazimer and I need to argue more.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: I just felt like there was part I would just skip as a regular reader of the site. Maybe that's just me
  • 2 0
 Great discussion. I have no intention of ever buying a DH bike. I love the look of them. I am actually downsizing from my enduro setup to a more trail bike setup.
  • 2 0
 Still have my SC VP Free with 40mm stanchioned Totem fork and over 200mm of travel in the rear for the park...don't want to destroy my enduro at WBP
  • 2 1
 Why buy a dh bike? Because I don’t want to spend twice the money on a half as capable bike lol. The real question is why the 12 speed SRAM Eagle when you’re riding dh trails?
  • 1 0
 Am I the only one who's really excited about the Salsa reviews? I love my Timberjack frame and I'd keep it forever if my knee wasn't telling me that it can't do a hardtail anymore.
  • 2 0
 I'm pumped to ride the Blackthorn more. Great looking bike, too!
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: I'm glad you're excited about it and I look forward to the review...good or bad!
  • 11 12
 You can also ride a rigid bike with cantilever brakes on the majority of trails also. So why do we even need bikes with full suspension and disk brakes? Pinkbike totally talks out of their ass when they say riders are stuck in the past when they don't want new standards. Yet they release stupid articles like this.
  • 1 0
 TRUTH
  • 1 0
 Sorry
  • 1 0
 It’s good to see the overwhelming majority of people agree with you. LMAO
  • 1 0
 You're right. DH bikes are the best at DH. The best enduro bikes can't hold a candle to how much traction and control a DH bike provides at speeds. If you arent capable of using that speed i can see how one would try and justify them being useless but the empirical fact remains that DH bikes are capable of controlling speeds other bikes arent. So if you have lift access noting beats them. Either way, good way to generate more views/listens
  • 3 0
 We want a video of an enduro vs DH bike
  • 6 7
 Such a stupid discussion amongst a bunch of gapers who truly don’t need any specific bike for the ‘riding’ they are doing.

I’ve said it a few times, but Christ listen to Melamed or any of those boys...they’ll tell you DH bikes are superior on DH tracks, period. By a fair margin.

So...let’s see here...

1) enduro bikes are just as fast? Easy, No.
2) enduro bikes are just as fun? Assuming proper track, Easy, No.

Different tool for different job. No one prefers a single crown when shit gets heavy.
  • 7 0
 Did you actually listen to the podcast? We never said DH bikes aren't ridiculously fun.
  • 2 0
 @mikekazimer: should have been clear. Referring to the comment section. My bad.
  • 6 1
 Do you want to lend my username bro;
  • 1 2
 @commentsectiontroll: I don’t think you know what a troll is
  • 4 0
 @nvranka: well I mean I met your Mam
  • 4 0
 Bike park. That's why.
  • 2 0
 P.S I feel bad for people that can only have one bike
"The Jack of trades is the master of none"
  • 1 0
 That's how I feel about these big, 140/160mm "trail bikes."
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: LOL as the next bike I'm thinking of is a 140 trail bike! I'm currently riding a 140 HT for training at my local trail loops. Where I live its flat as but still plenty of tight,fast twisty single track AND I'm getting too old for a HT. So looking at a Banshee spitfire V3 because 140 & 26" just makes so much sense for the trails I usually ride and maybe,occasionally getting agro on a road trip to to some Welsh hills. Could I go for more travel? Yeah but, I dont wanna be pogo'ing i that travel when pedalling around my flat as FK local.
  • 3 0
 YoU ARe foRgETtinG aBooUT fREeRiDerS
  • 2 0
 They are the fast powder skis of biking! In their specific environment they are best tool! Smiles for miles.
  • 2 0
 Once upon a time DH bike were the only thing that could handle abuse, Enduro bikes have improved alot...
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy question for next episode, what happen to behind the number series? Figured the xc field test would have started a new series.
  • 2 0
 It's only a matter of time until Levy actually gets a Tim Hortons sponsor.
  • 2 4
 Probably a full DH rig is faster for a racer...but for a normal rider...I didn't fell my 180mm Sanction was holding me back on any black/diamond run I had it on. Hell, I can(albeit slower) ride black diamonds with my sub 65HA, 130-150mm trail-ish-all-mountain-semi-enduro bike.
When indeed, I reach my limits, those 130mm can't be there for me and, to complement it, I buy next year one of those big enduro(new freeride) alu bikes in the shape of a Norco Shore or a Nukeproof Giga or a Commie Clash...or something similar. Any of them will probably be much faster than my former Sanction. So...if that wasn't holding me back and these new ones will surely not going to, why will the average rider need a dedicated DH rig?, a big enduro(new freeride) is still pedalable, a DH is not.

Especially since most of us don't live at the entrance of a bikepark...and not any bikepark but one with really big and nasty trails on it or else, even in that case you'll not need a DH bike.
  • 6 1
 This isn’t a question of is it possible to ride a trail bike on dh trails....of course it is.

Dh bikes are simply superior on tracks that warrant them.

The EWS guys have said the same thing many times.
  • 1 0
 My next bike will be a canyon sender CFR............. if I can afford it Frown
  • 2 2
 I have limited storage space and already have too many bikes because of it. On top of that...we don't have any downhill trails in SoCal. So I just ride my enduro bike.
  • 2 0
 Uh......wut?
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: I was stating why I don't buy a DH bike.
  • 1 0
 @JSTootell: you also said there aren’t dh trails in SoCal....which is clearly a joke?
  • 3 1
 @nvranka: None that I have seen. Nothing that requires a DH bike. If you know of any I have missed, let me know. I would like to check them out.
  • 7 0
 @JSTootell: I love how people on here say things like “nothing requires a dh bike”...yeah no shit man, I can ride my trail bike on most tracks, we are only limited by our skill to get down. Doesn’t mean you can ride at pace or even have fun (depending on your definition...).

You said ‘require’, but since that is debatable, I will list some of my favs where I/anyone I’ve met would prefer a dh bike 10/10

-idyllwild dh shuttle...they go by a bunch of names.
-crestline
- PGs
- Valhalla
- telonics
- silver surfer
- Gwin trail / Sam Hill trail / skid marks / Elsinore in general

So many more.

I would never claim to know of all of them either, there are probably so many great ones that are kept in the scene / under the radar.

We may not have alpine / vert heavy dh, but saying there are no dh trails in SoCal is comedic at best.

Is mammoth considered SoCal? Lol, must be. Bullet DH / velociraptor are proper.

Big bear has some out of bounds stuff that is pretty legit too.

I can’t even believe I’m responding to this it’s so ridiculous. Oh well there you go.
  • 5 4
 @JSTootell:
Nevermind him. He has done all his training for the next's months world champs in Leogang on the big and burly, techy, nasty ultra-mega-quadruple-black-diamond DH trails on the coast of California. He will be on the podium, you'll see...he knows everything about DH bikes. He goes to the beach on one...surfs on one. "DH for life bro"!
  • 4 1
 @eugenux: are you my groupie?
  • 1 3
 @nvranka:
Yes, I'll be right there near the podium celebrating your succes!, can't wait to see Loic's face when you push him off the top 5! #fanforlife
  • 2 4
 @nvranka: I also said:

"I have limited storage space"

Sure, a DH bike might be fun at Mammoth. But, nothing there needs it at all. Those aren't DH trails. I ride my road bike 5 days a week, I only got two days at Mammoth this year*. I can comfortably ride anything at Mammoth on my enduro, but a DH bike would suck on my daily commute.

I love SoCal, and not trying to denigrate the trails, but we don't have DH here. We just have lots of great trails and nearly unending good weather to ride them in. So yes, I do agree it is debatable, I can't see getting rid of my XC bike or road bike in place of a DH bike, when my enduro does all our local DH well enough, and lets me pedal back up for another lap without paying for a lift ticket or shuttling with people (I prefer to ride solo).

*I also hate shuttling/lifts. I will do a full day at Summit (I'm in RIverside) without ever using the lift line. I was going to try and do a no lift day at Mammoth, but, well, fires.
  • 4 2
 @JSTootell:

"None that I have seen. Nothing that requires a DH bike. If you know of any I have missed, let me know. I would like to check them out."

...I dont care about your lack of storage space, I was responding to what you wrote.

"Sure, a DH bike might be fun at Mammoth. But, nothing there needs it at all. Those aren't DH trails."

Please post a clip of you smashing bullet dh / velociraptor on your enduro bike, let's see it. The pros all chose DH bikes at the GRT, but hey, nothing there is DH right?

Why are you telling me about how you hate lift lines and would prefer to pedal all day alone? wtf does that have to do with this discussion.

Have you even ridden half of the trails i listed?

I'm done with you. This wasn't argument about whether you need a DH bike in your shoebox apartment storage cage, you said there aren't DH trails in socal.
  • 2 3
 @nvranka: I'll just peacefully disagree. Because really, it is all just opinion based on this one. Yes, I have ridden some of the trails you listed. Great trails.

I am not in a shoebox apartment. I am basically homeless right now, working on trying to move into a converted ambulance. Long story you don't want to hear.

In a hypothetical scenario where I had space, I would consider a DH bike for Mammoth.
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: good luck dude, positive vibes.

Can you give me some examples of what you consider DH?
  • 1 0
 Fontana? Big Bear? Downieville? Definitely DH around if you know where to go. Yes it's not likely to be in Los Angeles or San Diego, or anywhere along the coast (maybe around Big Sur) if that is your context of SoCal. SoCal is a big territory though.
  • 2 0
 @nvranka: Something I would see a WC rider doing that I would say "Uh, nah".

I haven't personally seen a trail yet that I wouldn't be willing to ride because it was outside of my skill set. Though if you consider a singular feature stopping me, then that changes the equation. Example, I rode Project X in Idyllwild twice, one of those times I saw an optional gap jump that I don't think I could get enough speed to clear even if I tried.

Maybe my opinion is unfairly shaped. Maybe I should recalibrate my opinion on what qualifies as DH? I know without having to enter a race that I am not as fast as a DH racer on a "DH trail", even if I was on equal equipment.

If Bullet is considered DH, and the consensus agrees, then I will change my opinion. Would a "Pro Line" label (again, Bullet as the example) be a DH trail? Summit lists 10-Ply as double black, does that qualify? I won't ask about the unlisted BB trails since it's hard to fairly rate a trail that doesn't officially exist...

I really have no problem with being proven wrong here.

@SuperHighBeam: I am in the Inland Empire, I am actually quite close to Fontana. Though I only ride there for XC races, which sadly have gone away (I hope that changes as the ProXCT course there is my favorite that I have done). I camp out and ride the trails of Summit almost every weekend of summer, my escape from reality.
  • 1 0
 Ha, I think I found a video of Gwin skipping the same feature, so maybe it's not just me lol

THough I assume he is skipping it because it wouldn't be photogenic, poorly built, it didn't make the cut, or some other reason. I know he sees bigger than that on a WC course.
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: lol dude

That gap jump on project x isn’t even what comes to mind as far as why I’d prefer a dh bike....I’ve never hit it with a single crown as I’ve never brought one there, but none of the gaps require anything other than speed and have decent run ins and outs for any bike.

The rock gardens at proper pace are heavy for a single crown man, it’s just a fact.

Same thing with bullet dh...the garden and many of the features (especially if doubled) really benefit from a dual crown at race pace/any proper pace really...which is why the pros all run dh bikes at that race.

You haven’t referenced velociraptor at all...heaviest trail at mammoth without a doubt.

If you don’t need a dh bike because you like to slowly creep down trails, that’s fine, but that doesn’t make them non dh trails. Also who tf cares about resort trail ratings?

You’re looking for WC features? Those trails have them lol. I’ve ridden VDS, MSA, schladming, lenzerheid, fort bill...I’m not sure what you think is so intense about them in comparison?

The dh circuit has some great tracks, but this was never a comparison of SoCal dh to wcdh tracks....you said there isn’t any dh in SoCal.

Plenty of videos of wcdh pros, including athertons/Gwin doing testing and training on many of the tracks I listed. Why would they do that on trails you don’t consider DH?????

I feel like you’re just f*cking with me.
  • 1 0
 @nvranka: Unfortunately the two times this year I went to Mammoth Velociraptor was listed as being closed. The one time I went last year I was with friend who didn't want to ride it. So I can't reference what I don't know. I really do want to ride it though and was bummed when I saw it listed as closed. 10-Ply is the one locally I know best which is why I reference that one. My Strava PR (bearing in mind few truly fast guys are using Strava) is pretty good, I don't like to "slow roll" features.

Not f*cking with you, why I said I have no problem being proven wrong. If I am wrong, then, I am wrong. Unless someone can convince me that I am right, then I am wrong on this. And honestly, being proven wrong on this one is kinda ideal.

Time to go ride...
  • 2 0
 @JSTootell: You go to the bike park and pride yourself that you don't ride the lifts? Ewww...that guy. There's nothing wrong with fun just being fun, man. And ya know what what? Bike parks are usually more fun on a DH bike. Do you "need" one? Of course not...I can ride my hardtail on almost anything. But I guarantee I'll be slower, more beat up, more out of control, and have less fun on proper rough trails. Hardly anyone "needs" a DH bike. But whoever said fun had to be practical?
  • 2 0
 @b-mack: well, fun is why I skip the lift line. Because RIDING my bike is fun. Sitting in line is not.

Last season I compared how long it took me to ride to the top, and compared it to a guy I know who just does lift laps. Took my an hour to the top, took him 50 minutes. Of course then he went to the parking lot to drink beer while I went up for another lap.

Maybe his idea of park laps is fun for you. Clearly it is fun for a lot of people. It is not fun for me. I would rather pedal up and be on my bike instead of sitting in a line.

I'm not giving up my limited storage space for a DH bike just so I can sit in a line. My 170mm bike is close enough and still fun to ride up singletrack.

Your mileage may vary.
  • 1 0
 @JSTootell: So you admit there is DH trail in SoCal, and yet you denied it. I'm confused.
  • 1 0
 A fair question from the guy who spent his whole summer riding uphill bikes!
  • 2 3
 “ any downhill bike on the market can make you feel like a World Cup pro”

Hahahahahahhaahahaha.....thanks for that.

Simple answer to this nonsense....if you have to ask, you don’t get it.
  • 2 0
 Cause dual crowns are sick
  • 1 0
 speaking of the field test, how much of a douche am I for ordering a revel rascal with a 150 fork :l
  • 2 0
 Nooooooooo Smile
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: pls say sike right now
  • 1 0
 Bike parks and shuttles. I see it all the time, someone beating up their 8K carbon trail bike.
  • 2 0
 Please make a T, hoodie or jersey with "Pinkers" on it.
  • 2 0
 "But what DH bike would you buy?"

Already have:
2001 Straight 8
2013 Jedi
  • 1 0
 I'll be listening to it tomorrow, I just hope it isn't 42 minutes of why I don't need to buy one ????
  • 1 0
 Solid podcast this week. I like that you kept want out and just talked about need.
  • 1 0
 Will less people will buy DH bikes if there are only 6 world cups in a year?
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer
I have a question for one of the podcasts - advantages/disadvantages of 35.0 vs 31.8
  • 1 0
 I ride an Intense 951 EVO and let me tell you I will stay committed to riding DH FORVER!!! DH OR DIE POINT BLANC PERIODT!
  • 2 0
 so yes to a DH bike
  • 2 5
 More importantly, why do some companies choose not to offer a DH bike, market too small, not financially viable or is running a World Cup programme just prohibitively expensive versus any market return. Riders such as Richie Rude, Sam Hill etc could pretty much turn up to any DH World Cup with their Enduro bikes and finish in the top 20 and with Enduro bikes getting more press through the EWS and more DH riders crossing over to that discipline the clever marketing money will naturally follow.
  • 6 2
 You’re clueless if you think those guys can just ‘show up’ to a WCDH race and place top 20 on an enduro bike.
  • 1 0
 Small market. Much much bigger rider pool for trail and Enduro hence more money to make. That's also part of the reason for why DH bikes typically cost $6K plus. Low volume, high cost per to offset developement and manufacturing costs means cost per unit must be high to stay profitable.
  • 2 0
 no, no they can't. Also they would turn up with DH bikes on proper DH tracks because DH bikes are empirically quicker down mountains.
  • 1 0
 The best thing to come from this podcast is the term "Pinkers"
  • 1 0
 I’m all for it. But I’m coming from the Seattle area where we just named our NHL team the Kraken. I just bought a team sweatshirt. Does that make me a Krackhead?
  • 1 1
 FC and RC ratios should be used so you can have a small sized bike ride similar to a large.
  • 2 0
 Tour De France Road Gap
  • 1 0
 Hell yes, Haribo.
  • 1 0
 Double post.
  • 1 4
 and.... THERE ARE NO BIKES, ONLY GRIM DONUT!
  • 1 0
 Agreed.
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