The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 26 - The Three Most Important Mountain Bikes

 My three most important are the 3 in my garage. One is mine and the others are my boys, 9 and 13. It is so amazing taking them out to ride!

 Kona Stinky- if we had phones and YouTube/insta in 2009, Friday Fails would be 96% fullface-sunglasses, Roach pads and Kona Stinkys

 The right answer is obviously the 2012 Trek Session as no other bike has created as many Pinkbike comments as that dang bike.

 OG process 111 is king!
I haven’t been at it for terribly long. But I’m thinking maybe the First specialized enduro with 29” wheels is a good choice (ahead of its time). Maybe the gen2 patrol also since it kind of sparked the super slack and short offset fork trend?

 Kazimer is SOOO close if not spot on, imo. The 13/14 Enduro was SO FAR ahead of its time, and basically created that segment for mountain bikes a decade before anyone else used that term. I understand the Nomad choice by Brian but it was a reaction to the Enduro. The M1 absolutely needs to be on the list. There is NO other mountain bike that got rebranded and raced by SO MANY WC teams in any disciplines. I certainly don't follow xc trends as much but the Blur 4x and a lot of other 4x bikes during that time were essentially downcountry bikes decades before anyone thought of that silly term.

 No Iron Horse Sunday? Bike first released 15 years ago and still been loved that much by the community. Still active discussion about it on some portals after 125+ pages. I don't know any other bike that was re-welden by some owners to make it longer and slacker, I think there was a version for a new size of wheels too. Awesome bike and I miss my one soo much.

 Slingshot, Klein Mantra and Softride.

 First Enduro 29 for bringing big wheels to the long travel bikes, Trek session for the memes and Schwinn Cruiser from 1973 without which we wouldn’t have this whole fun sport.

 For better or for worse, I don't know how you can look at what wheelsize everyone is running and not mention a Gary Fisher or Niner 29er, at least a trailbike like the Hifi or WFO.

 Some great picks but where is the Sunday??

 2 things:
1: Brian, your anti rocky bias from your friendly departure is palpable in this episode


And 2: you guys gotta wrangle up RC for an episode. Dont care which topic it is.

 Original 1984 Fat Chance, complete with magura moto levers, since "mountain bike" components weren't even a thing yet. Mountain biking had to start somewhere.

Sam Hill ~2008 Iron Horse Sunday World Cup

2005 SC nomad, the original enduro bike

 DMR Trailstar (original)
I'd view this as one of the original do it all hardtails. You could argue the original Klunkers were that too but I don't think these were being used on the jump lines quite the way the Trailstar was. Yet the Trailstar wasn't a DJ bike exclusively. It really was up for anything. A blueprint for most versatile (steel) hardtails we're seeing today.

Specialized Enduro SX 2003
A "supercross" (BSX, DS, 4X, anything) bike with 80mm rear travel. Raced to second place in the Lisbon urban DH race by Anneke Beerten, used for messing about by Matt Hunter in The Collective. Basically a bike designed to be competitive in a specialized (no pun) discipline but used way outside that. It eventually became the inspiration for the later Enduro (SX) models and obviously other brands jumped in too. But I view this one as the bike that started it all.

Orange 222 (or whichever DH bike they made at whichever point)
Obviously it is always in the rider but I don't think there is another bike brand that has supported more different riders who at some point in their career have become World Cup and/or Worlds champion. Greg Minnaar, Josh Bryceland, Tracey Hannah, a guy named Peaty. I could be very wrong here and it may not matter shit if they haven't become champ on their very bike. And you are all more right than I am here. But this is my comment so I all that's left for you to do is respond and vote, sorry. Orange bikes are legendary. There, I said it.

 When I heard the topic, I started going through 3 bikes in my head and then thought how could the OG Stumpjumper not be on the list? So it’s really a top 2. The other two I thought of were the Amp B2 (which I owNed and @Mikelevy the chainstays are still on one piece—cause the top tube snapped first) and the Enduro 29. So partial agreement with @mikekazimer but @brianpark wins fo sho.

 There are two bikes that are without any question. With third i have hard time. First one is. AMP. I think it doesnt make difference what model. But as a birth of Horst link type of suspension its just absolutelly crucial in taking us from prehistory into bikes as we know them now. System was purchased by Specialized, but licensed by countless companies. Now since patents are over Its still being used on new bikes. Second one is Outlend. Small canadian company in mid nineties created something that became another step up from Horst link system. And now in 2020, basically whole world rides on one of few variants of Virtual pivot. Third one is debatable. But despite otherwise im not so much in the fanclub of that guy, I think that when Gary Fisher in early 2000s created those hardtails with Genesis geometry, he started really breakthrough in how we looke at geometry. Till then it was short frame/long stem.. But after Genesis concept paradime shifted.

 As a Canadian I think it is important to remember those early days In the bike industry when Pippen Osboren (syncros banshee) designed and Paul Brodie built those first Rockys with wildly sloping top tubes. Paul perfected it in his hand built bikes. And the sloping top tube is a design element that all mountain bikes share today.

 Any glossy Klein for the 90's, Manitou Full Suspension bikes and Specialized Pitch. The pitch was my first real enduro bike.

 1. Kona Hardtail from the mid 90's. Sloping downtubes FTW 2. OG 29er Tallboy. Start of FS 29ers not sucking 3. Process 111. Modern, long, low and slack 29er

 I had to come back with more... Hans reys 1995 Gt Zasker LT that sketchy Cannondale we all got to know Aaron chase on. Waders 2001 RM7, the one he won the first rampage on, oh baby.

 I honestly cannot believe the Mountain Cycle San Andreas is not on the list for anyone. It was ahead of it's time with Monocoque Construction, and inverted fork, and disk brakes. As this bike was "Improved" (using Improved loosely here). Racers like Shaums March and John Kirkcaldy were on the Mountain Cycle Team in '96. I would also lump Foes into this era as well. These frames were ahead of the Intense M1 - although everyone as you all pointed out was racing on the M1 in the late 90's which was pretty awesome to see.

 I did so much googling during this one.

 QUESTION FOR THE PODCAST: We're starting to see more brands have bikes that have proportional dimensions that scale with bike size (Norco's 'Gravity Tune' being an example). What do you guys think about scaling TRAVEL with bike size? For example, someone who is 6'4" tall (76") is ~27% taller than someone who is 5' (60"). Should this person be looking for a bike with ~27% more travel? All other angles being the same, should the 5' person be on a 130 bike, while the 6'4" person is on a 160mm bike? The travel on these bikes is proportionally the same when compared to their height.

 You gotta put a Banshee runner up in there somewhere. Modern/adjustable geo and wheel sizes/drop outs. If you had a banshee with a 1x10 hack you were already years ahead of the game.

 My first bike, Bridgestone MB-6, got me into riding, The Trek 8700 allowed me to do some racing and was a great, first “good bike”, and my current Banshee Prime has been wonderful on the techy riding I’ve been fortunate enough to ride like: Squamish/Whistler, Blackrock, Pinecrest Peak, etc... it even works great on long rides!

But for mountain biking I’d have to say the 3 most important bikes in history was the first Stumpjumper because it brought off-road riding to a larger audience, the first intense DH bikes radically changed gravity riding, and the Rocky Mountain Fro-ride bikes.

 I would have to say that the original Norco two50 deserves a place on the list of most influential bikes. It is the grandfather to all the modern slopestyle bikes and helped usher in a new style or riding with mountain bikes (dirt jump bikes) invading the streets, skate parks and dirt jump spots.

 The original Stumpjumper definitely deserves a spot.. The M1 changed the game as far as DH goes.. The Enduro 29 is a good choice... That bike showed that longer travel 29ers were possible.. The Amp bike, also the Outland VPP, Iron Horse Sunday, and the GT DH-I all honorable mentions..

 #1 Santa Cruz v10 Carbon - “First” production carbon DH bike when everyone thought it would snap.

#2 Kona Stinky - Cover bike of every MTB mag/advert from 1999 to 2010. Plus World Cup winner.... or was that the stab?!

#3 Specialized Stumpjumper - For all the reasons Brian said...

 Next podcast theme:

Bike frame/parts materials. Is Carbon here to stay, will Aluminum make comeback?

Is Carbon really the best material for mountain bikes, or is it just a industry push.
Was that only bad luck that I was beating or aluminum for years and years and crack carbon frame in 2 months?

Will bikes get enough expensive so Titanium does not seem to be too expensive anymore?

I guess its hard to test durability while always riding new bikes for testing, but is durability even relevant?

 Cannondale Prophet: introduced in 2005
140mm travel,
67.5degree head tube angle,
steepish seattube angle for the time (73.5-75.0)
low bottom bracket
leftymax with 1.5 inch head-tube, which was extremely stiff/precise made me realize my fox 32s/revelations/OG pikes were total garbage,
tubeless tires f/r rear stock on all models vs many bikes at the time that you had to convert

 Transition Bottlerocket! And the two other bikes in my garage.

 Another great one from the Pinkbike crew. Was thrilled to hear the Stumpy on there, as that's the one that kicked it off. Always wanted to own an M1, but I don't do a lot of gravity riding so it would be garage art....Nice hearing the 'why' of each choice and I can't disagree with any of them.

 I live in wisconsin and the winters get really harsh so I store my bikes indoors during the winter months but what should I do about the sealant in the tires, will it dry out? Do I have to worrie about the oil in the forks and shocks? What else do I need to do to winterize my bike for a long winter in a dry basement?

 I had that 1st gen Nomad. Put a dhx coil on the back and a 66 coil on the front. The crown on the 66 was so wide that I had to put a spacer under the lower headset race so that I wouldn't dent the swoopy downtube. Looked like a chopper. Yep...so much dumb fun.

 GRIM DONUT!

 Kona Stinky, Norco Shore, and Rocky Mountain RMX were all a huge part of freeriding and the evolution of longer travel, burlier bikes, etc.

 Santa Cruz Bullit. Who remembers the superheros? And Shaums on his Mountain Cycle San Andreas. Plush was the first freeride vid I remember.

 Most important Bike Parts...:
Marzocchi Z1
Rockshox Boxxer
The first non square ended BB and crankset
Hayes Disc

Next podcast topic?

 The first YT Wickeds and Canyon Torques that showed everyone that it was possible to make a well specced full suspension bike for a decent price. 26" wheels and laughable geometry by today's standards but imo those were the bikes that really made people think about how good direct sales could be.

 Perhaps this one didn't make as much of an impact on the west coast, but where I live the bike that put 29ers on the map was the Surly Karate Monkey. I remember talking to the owner of a local shop who got a bunch of the framesets in and was building them up for anyone he could get to listen to him. I don't remember what I thought at the time, but at least for me, that was the beginning of the wheel wars that are still raging today!

 This might sound weird, but the most important mountain bike isn’t a mountain bike. It’s the Gravel bike. The modern gravel bike is part 90’s mountain bike, part road bike, is environmentally friendly ( can be ridden from your house, not matter where you live), created its own bike and racing segment, has brought in tons of new riders and makes fire roads and tame trails challenging and fun.

 Well, i still ride my 2014 Enduro 29, but i have to admit i'm looking for something new.

Specifically i'd like a bike that has more reach, around 480mm.
A shorter seattube, that's very important bc i have short legs
and it should be more efficient to pedal.
Probably a 29er, maybe mullet.
Around 140 to 160 mm Fork and between 130 to 150 mm of rear travel.
It must withstand a heavy rider
I have some ideas but i'd like some input, maybe @mikekazimer can weigh in too?

cheers

 The original Kona Satori (2013) came out before the process 111 (2014), that bike changed my mind on what you could do with a 29er. 29ers were no longer only xc race bikes at that point in my eyes

 question for next podcast.
what do you think about the debate of dose politics have a place in mtb.

for example should mtb be an escape form the badness and stress of the real world and everyone can just get along and ride their bikes all having fun together.

or dose the conversations around things in the world at the moment have a place in the sport

(im wondering what your opinion is im not trying to start a fight)

i am asking this after seeing the 2020 commencal world champs dh bikes
and some other stuff i have seen from brands and riders on social media
and reading the comments.

 2004 Norco six... rode it downhill and uphill.. first truly capable all mountain bike

 The STUMPY has bridged generations. I haven't had one since the 80s, but it's been significant the entire time.

 I would agree with the first stumpjumper.
For me it s the 2007 Yeti 575. It was already a long (6”) travel trail bike at the time with agressive geo, for the time.

 Nothing from Turner? DHR, RFX, Highline, Rail were known work horses at the time. And they all still look really good today!

 I know it won't be my 2005 Gary Fisher Cake DLX

 Pivot Firebird circa 2009. 166mm travel and fully pedal-able all day.
DW link
Floating front derailleur
#26forlife (not really)
My wife still has hers for park laps, mine was stolen in July.

 I pick the Balfa BB7, the Trek 69'er, and the Cannondale Raven!

 Tallboy...made 29" work.

 Chris Porters Nicolai G16 would be on my list. This bike pushed geometry more than any other bike.

 Bianchi BASS (and all its relatives)

 The Santa Cruz TR / TRC seemed pretty groundbreaking. I may have been living in a bubble but can’t remember another like it at that time.

 The first SC Nomad, and Kona Process 111 are at the top of my list for sure.

 I always like it when I learn something from the podcast. The news was sorely missed though. It's become my weekly info session.

 San Andreas Mountain Cycle, Intense M1, 24Bicycles Le Toy3

 Kona Stinky in the PNW for sure

 Manitou Bradbury ... " the least clever way to make full suspension"... this hurts to ear, please how many years all mx motocross linkage was like that?

 Surly Pugsley; name another bike that has started such a distinct category in the past 20 years.

 since its episode 26...should be the 26ers from the 90's that got mountain biking on the map

 I’m still kicking myself for choosing a 2013 giant reign instead of a 2013 specialized enduro.

 1986 Brodie Romax - 1st bike with a sloping top tube - everything lies in it wake for design.

 Pitch
Process 153
Privateer 141?

 Klein Attitude, Willits (the first real MTB 29er) and Porter´s Nicolai Ion 16.

 Rockhopper if we are talking the bike that has gotten so many oriole into riding

 How about the 1981 Stumpjumper? That bike spread mountain biking across the country in the blink of an eye.

 I guess:
- Breezer number One
- GT LTS
- Specialized Levo

 when stevie smith won at MSA DH

 niner’s first bike for me it was a 2010 RIP

 The 2018 Transition Sentinel basically changed bike geometry.

 previous bike, current bike, next bike

 Brian nailed it!

 Why not the Ibis Bow Ti? That seems right up Levy’s alley?

 Trek Liquid. Kind of the first mainstream "all mountain" bike

 Kabush was on a Turner Nitrous XC full suspension.

 My own list of 'big 3' brands for MTB is Specialized, Kona, Santa Cruz

 Ibis Mojo?

 as someone new to the sport, the pole stamina kicked it off with the long and slack movement

 Session Hardrock Stumpie

 Trek Y-33

 The Cannondale Magic bike by Alex Pong, Bender's Karpiel, and the Specialized Levo.

 #1 imo Banshee spitfire.

 The 3 in my garage.