The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 90 - Is Supre the Future of Trouble-Free Drivetrains? (with Cedric Eveleigh of Lal Bikes)

Nov 19, 2021
by Mike Levy  
Pinkbike Podcast
Art by Taj Mihelich


Remember that time when a new, wildly different standard was proposed and pretty much everyone liked the idea? If you missed its debut last week, Matt Beer's in-depth look at the prototype Supre drivetrain showed that a lot of us would be open to a completely new layout if it eliminated some drawbacks of a traditional system. Cedric Eveleigh, the man behind Supre, says that the four key elements are durability, efficiency, chain damping, and a lower unsprung mass, all on a proprietary high-pivot full-suspension platform, and we've got him on today's show to hear how it came to be and where it might be going.





THE PINKBIKE PODCAST // EPISODE 90 - IS SUPRE THE FUTURE OF TROUBLE-FREE DRIVETRAINS?
Nov 19th, 2021

It's like a gearbox but a lot better.


With the Supre drivetrain, Eveleigh has split the traditional derailleur's duties - shifting and providing chain tension - into two different components. First, the low-hanging derailleur that we're all used to seeing is gone, replaced in part by a mini-derailleur of sorts that moves the chain across the cogs and is tucked up safely into the swingarm. You know, where it's far less likely to get ripped off or bent. The other main component, the tensioner, rotates around the bottom bracket and does the job of the now missing derailleur cage - to add chain tension.

Supre works with mostly conventional components, including a normal hub, T47 bottom bracket, cranks, cassette, chain, and shifter, but does require a purpose-built full-suspension design that uses an idler pulley, a necessity that Eveleigh explains in the podcast interview below.


Supre Drive Details
• Requires a high-pivot suspension design, idler pulley
• Uses standard hub, cranks, cassette, shifter, and chain
• 12-speed, 10-51T gear range
• Custom mini-derailleur with large, single jockey wheel
• Generous ground clearance
• Hydraulic chain tensioner
• Approximate constant chain tension across all gears
• More info: lalbikes.com
• Instagram: @lal_bikes



Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.




Previous Pinkbike Podcasts
Episode 1 - Why Are Bikes So Expensive?
Episode 2 - Where the Hell is the Grim Donut?
Episode 3 - Pond Beaver Tech
Episode 4 - Why is Every Bike a Trail Bike?
Episode 5 - Can You Trust Bike Reviews?
Episode 6 - Over Biked Or Under Biked?
Episode 7 - Wild Project Bikes
Episode 8 - Do We Need an Even Larger Wheel Size?
Episode 9 - Why Are We Doing a Cross-Country Field Test?
Episode 10 - Getting Nerdy About Bike Setup
Episode 11 - Are We Going Racing This Year?
Episode 12 - What's the Future of Bike Shops?
Episode 13 - Are Bikes Too Regular Now?
Episode 14 - What Bikes Would Pinkbike Editors Buy?
Episode 15 - What's Holding Mountain Biking Back?
Episode 16 - Who's Your Mountain Biking Hero?
Episode 17 - XC Field Test Insider
Episode 18 - Electronics on your Mountain Bike: Good or Bad?
Episode 19 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 20 - MTB Conspiracy Theories
Episode 21 - Stuff We Were Wrong About
Episode 22 - Does Your Riding Style Match Your Personality?
Episode 23 - Grim Donut 2 is Live!
Episode 24 - Why Even Buy a DH Bike?
Episode 25 - Fall Field Test Preview
Episode 26 - The Three Most Important Mountain Bikes
Episode 27 - The World Champs Special
Episode 28 - All About Women's Bikes
Episode 29 - Freeride or Die
Episode 30 - Would You Rather?
Episode 31 - Wet Weather Riding Tips & Tricks
Episode 32 - What Needs to Change in the Bike Industry?
Episode 33 - Behind the Scenes at Pinkbike Academy
Episode 34 - Grilling Levy About Field Test Trail Bikes (and His Bonspiel)
Episode 35 - Story Time - Stranger Than Fiction
Episode 36 - Grilling Kazimer about Field Test Enduro Bikes
Episode 37 - The 2020 Privateer Season with Ben Cathro
Episode 38 - Editors Defend Their 2020 Best-Of Picks
Episode 39 - Predicting the Future of Mountain Biking
Episode 40 - The Pinkbike Awards!
Episode 41 - Racing Rumours and Team Changes
Episode 42 - Mountain Biking's Guilty Pleasures
Episode 43 - Dangerholm's Wildest Custom Mountain Bikes
Episode 44 - Mountain Bike Suspension Decoded
Episode 45 - What Makes a Good Riding Buddy
Episode 46 - The RockShox Zeb vs Fox 38 Deep Dive
Episode 47 - High Pivot Bikes: The Good, The Bad, and The Why?
Episode 48 - Rides That Went Horribly Wrong... & Why That Made Them So Good
Episode 49 - What's the Best DH Bike?
Episode 50 - Are Bikes Actually Getting Less Expensive? (Value Bike Field Test Preview)
Episode 51 - Should MTB Media Post Spy Shots?
Episode 52 - Our Most Embarrassing MTB Moments
Episode 53 - Should Climbers Still Have the Right of Way?
Episode 54 - Best and Worst MTB Product Marketing
Episode 55 - Big Dumb Rides & Staying Motivated
Episode 56 - What Were the Most Important Inventions in Mountain Biking?
Episode 57 - What Were the Best (and Worst) Trends in Mountain Biking?
Episode 58 - Debunking Mountain Biking's Biggest Myths
Episode 59 - Value Bike Field Trip Surprises & Spoilers
Episode 60 - What Kind of Mountain Biker Do You Want to Be?
Episode 61 - Athlete Pay, Lycra, Equality and More from the State of the Sport Survey
Episode 62 - Editor Preferences and Why They Matter
Episode 63 - Our Best (And Worst) Bike Buying Advice
Episode 64 - Who's On Your MTB Mount Rushmore?
Episode 65 - The Hardtail Episode
Episode 66 - The Best and Worst of Repairing Bikes
Episode 67 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham
Episode 68 - Who Are Mountain Biking's Unsung Heroes?
Episode 69 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 1
Episode 70 - The Good, Bad, and Strange Bikes We've Owned - Part 2
Episode 71 - The Story of Mountain Biking's Most Interesting Man: Richard Cunningham - A Pinkbike Podcast Special, Part 2
Episode 72 - Hey Outers!
Episode 73 - The Details That Matter... and Some That Shouldn't
Episode 74 - The Best Trails We've Ridden and What Makes Them So Special
Episode 75 - Things MTB Brands Waste Money On
Episode 76 - MTB Originals and Copycats
Episode 77 - Interview with Outside CEO, Robin Thurston
Episode 78 - Modern Geometry Explained
Episode 79 - What's the Future of eMTBs?
Episode 80 - The Best Vehicles for Mountain Bikers
Episode 81 - You've Got Questions, We've (Maybe) Got Answers
Episode 82 - Behind the Scenes at Field Test
Episode 83 - Does Carbon Fiber Belong On Your Mountain Bike?
Episode 84 - Explaining RockShox's Computer Controlled Suspension
Episode 85 - Is the Red Bull Rampage Too Slopestyle?
Episode 86 - Greg Minnaar on the Honda DH Bike, World Cup Racing, and Staying Fast Forever
Episode 87 - How to Love Riding When it's Cold and Wet
Episode 88 - Mountain Biking on a Budget
Episode 89 - The Derailleur Pickle


96 Comments

  • 56 0
 It's really nice to hear an engineer talk about bike stuff instead of a marketing person.
  • 9 0
 Agreed. Eye-opening to hear the commitment Cedric has had over the last two years.
  • 8 0
 As a linguistologist, I'm super impressed. Cedric speaks Pinkbike very fluently. All the best to him.
  • 21 0
 He's delightfully Canadian.
  • 15 2
 27+ years of riding and 3 broken derailleurs/3 bent hangers. Maybe I've been lucky. To me the two biggest problems to solve in MTB's are: 1.) Shifting without needing to pedal. 2.) Droppers that can drop down automatically without body weight (insert Reverb joke here).
  • 4 0
 I’m with you. Seldom ever a smashed mech or broken hanger. If I bike came stock with the Lal system I could be intrigued but at this point, I feel my current setup should be work great for the next several years. I can’t say anything is a nagging pain in the ass that requires regular maintenance or keeps me from riding. (2021 Slash with 11sp XT drivetrain and XT brakes and Trail SPDs, Synthesis wheels, Maxxis tires, Highline post, SQLab saddle, and Lyrik fork.)
  • 10 0
 Same here. I rarely destroy derailleurs (one in the last 4-5 years?) but plenty of other riders have more problems with them. That doesn't certainly doesn't mean there isn't a better way to do it, though. I'd put my money on this before any sort of gearbox design.
  • 17 0
 I think people like us have evolved to ride in a way that doesn't put our derailleurs in harm's way too often... but what if we didn't have to adapt our riding to protect the dangly bits? The old adage of "good mechanics make bad racers because they care about the bike's longevity" is probably true.

Also, there are some other potential benefits of Cedric's system beyond derailleur smashing. The constant chain tension and lower unsprung weight are both pretty interesting propositions.
  • 2 0
 Have been riding mtbs since 1993 and have broken countless derailleurs! I'm guessing you're much smoother (maybe lighter) rider than some of us that destroy derailleurs and other standard drivetrain components.

Back when I lived in a crappy place with a bunch of dudes I used to make derailleur wind chimes with all sorts of broken parts to decoratively hang to impress the ladies if they were ever to come over (not very often haha!)...... I would seriously consider this system over a gearbox as well! I'm guessing it is probably a bit more efficient although it would require more maintenance.
  • 1 0
 @derekr:

Seriously, how many derailleurs have you broken in the last 8 years? Back in the 90's and early 2000's derailleurs generally sucked. I remember some hangers back in the 90's were part of the frame so it was much easier to break a derailleur straight off your bike. But, nowadays the soft aluminum hanger is way more likely to bend out vs breaking the derailleur itself. Usually you can just bend it back into place to make it back to the trail head. Perhaps your location/terrain plays a bigger role in how often you blow up your mechanicals? PB SURVEY PLEASE!
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: @derekr My riding style has definitely changed (I’ll use the word “improved” very loosely). No more riding ‘street’ on a DH bike, no more attempts at trials and skinnies, teeter totters, and the like. These days my riding is straight up trail riding littered with lots of well-shaped jumps and largely free of jank. I’ve migrated to an all-Shimano drivetrain after years of composite stuff from the other big S. I find the Japanese stuff lasts a lot longer. The other factor is the UDH on my Slash - a really robust solution.
  • 1 0
 @dirtdiggler: Broken at least 6 or 7. in the last 8 years which I would say is not as much as I used to. The thing is, once you bend one you can break it if you really torque on it which is why I figured maybe you aren't a lard-arse like me Smile . The thing is when derailleurs break they sometimes take other stuff with it like spokes, chain etc. And if you're way out in the bush on an all day epic, it could mean the difference between getting home and staying the night.

I bikepack in the boonies (ie chilcotins) so reliability is very important to me. So, even breaking one derailleur a year is unacceptable for me. Just my opinion sir!
  • 1 0
 @sngltrkmnd: You betcha I love Shimano! Just wish they'd come out with that darned gearbox they teased us with a few yrs ago!
  • 1 0
 @dirtdiggler: after a bunch of hits derailleurs get floppy and less precise. And bent or broken hangers also suck.
  • 1 0
 @derekr:

Damn....that's a lot of derailleurs! I've lived in the north east (U.S.) for most of my riding and there hasn't been that many situations where I worry about killing my derailleur, even on shuttle and lift runs.

I'm not against innovation and improvement. One thing that struck a chord was not needing to worry about which side you drop the bike down on. It will be interesting to see the refined version and hopefully Cedric can make a non high-pivot version in the future.
  • 2 0
 @brianpark: my three dead derailleurs in the past two years were all victims of the drivetrain ingesting a stick. I'm not sure how I can modify my riding to avoid sticks on the trails, other than not riding.
  • 1 0
 @paulwatt: I agree, if the hanger is slightly bent it will drive you crazy. But, I'm more likely to have problems with my tires burping or my brakes not grabbing right vs breaking a derailleur. It's not like I need to tape an extra derailleur to my down tube in case one breaks. Although, that would be hilarious!
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: I'm with you on using this system over a gearbox. It's funny, when I look at some gearbox bikes now they remind me of e-bikes.
  • 1 0
 I haven't broken or bent a derailleur since at least 2012. I have broken one broke a derailleur hanger in that time though, and that was pretty annoying. Prior to that maybe I bent some ancient XT thing?

While I was a bit confused by him dramatically saying that current derailleurs "EXPLODE ALL THE TIME", I do agree that this system, in premise, makes a lot of sense for MTBs. Similar how QR was adapted from road bikes but makes much less sense than rugged through axles.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: As much as I know why you do not see this as a gearbox, but could just be a gearbox with out the box?
  • 1 0
 @aljoburr: one could say the same about a conventional drivetrain!
  • 1 0
 @derekr: Yes that is the point, why not!
  • 3 0
 @brianpark: I agree with your statement on how we’ve learned to ride. I would like to ride more narrow rock chutes where now I’m thinking about smashing my drivetrain.
  • 10 0
 Great hearing someone talk passionately about their work. Would be great to get more engineers / designers on the podcast whenever new products are released to talk about their perspective on it, be that from big or small companies.
  • 12 2
 Not going to lie, that's super cool. Better chain wrap should reduce chain and cog wear, obviously no more dropped chains... Guessing with less leverage on the derailleur pins and mounting points derailleurs will last longer before ultimately wearing out as well. Decreasing unstprung weight on the rear is also another plus. Would love to ride a bike with this setup. #license agreement with Shimano please
  • 3 2
 If Shimano or Sram have any sense they will be on the phone trying to snap up Cedric for an Engineering position.
  • 10 0
 I was back from work on the bike, after what felt like the shittiest day of the shittiest week of the year. Turned up PB's podcast and heard @mikelevy reading out loud a comment I posted made on the bottom of the last podcast. The good surprise gave me the grin for the rest of my ride and I'm very thankful for that. Cheers and thanks, you guys rock.
  • 8 0
 Oh no, they have started bleeping Levy! Frown Turned a blind eye to ad reads as it's an understandably strong market and accept it as a good thing for the business overall, but a shame on the censoring :'(
Yes the podcast is great blah blah, but it's like....
... It's like have a Subway sandwich each week, to find out they no longer offer your choice of bread. It's still a good sandwich... but I liked the bread as part of it...
  • 1 1
 I bleeped myself Wink
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: hopefully Henry can make up the difference ☺️ British swearing doesn't count/warrant bleeps, right?
  • 1 0
 @idiot-on-bike: drat and blast
  • 2 0
 I agree! I loved the loose format to the PB podcast! Never too serious and always enjoyable to listen to with their different personalities and opinions... Levy getting bleeped is no longer Levy, and I'm only here for Levy!
  • 6 0
 @Basketcase889: I'm mostly just teaching myself how to edit the podcasts and wanted to know how to bleep - it won't be a regular thing Smile Recording two or three podcasts this week and I'll drop a couple extra F-bombs in them to balance things out haha
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: Thank you sir, I appreciate the additional F-bombs! Looking forward to them
  • 10 0
 Wow, what an impressive guy.
  • 3 0
 Agreed, super cool interview. Way to go Cedric
  • 6 0
 On a different topic and important to many, I would think. Early in this podcast everybody dismissed AXS as just OK and not any kind of truly important. For those of us with impaired grip ( I broke my neck 2 and a half years ago, ulnar nerve damage) the AXS system is a complete game changer. Not having to swing the thumb through a complete lever travel is a real difference in maintaining grip. I'm guessing there are many riders out there that for one reason or another have grip strength issues that would be very very happy if they invested in the switch. The shifting is nice and I wouldn't go back, it's that good, but the dropper operation if you have grip issues is off the charts better.
Great podcast PB, I listened to them all, saving them for while I did neck therapy. It's the little things that get you through the tough times.
  • 6 0
 For sure, that's a great point. A buddy of mine is missing some fingers on both hands and he loves his AXS drivetrain for the same reason.
  • 2 0
 Def agree! I ripped my tendon off my left thumb in a bad crash a few years ago. It's hard to find dropper levers that don't require me to use my palm to drop the seat. luckily my shifting thumb still works well.
  • 3 0
 on this bandwagon as well. I'm digitally challenged (3 fingers RH, 4 fingers LH) and AXS is a game changer for me..... and... I didn't read @mikelevy comment - that's me! haha
  • 8 0
 amazing idea and development of it, congrats to @cedric-eveleigh

i'll be following closely
  • 3 0
 Cedric is ambitious and that is great. Glad to hear there are companies willing to work with him too. Would be ideal if a company could engineer the front triangle to be the same between the standard and the Supre so only the rear would need to be different.

If there were a way to do it without the idler pulley/high pivot I think it would be even more exciting. But I understand the need to create space for the tensioner to move enough to take up slack too. But that will be a hurdle for more widespread adoption.

This product would be a great fit in rental and bike park fleets I bet. Could cut down on a lot of repairs.

I will be putting off any bike purchases until we see what comes of this.
  • 3 0
 Good point about rental bikes. And about putting off bike purchases - that's high praise, and I'll be working hard to make it a short wait.
  • 2 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: I’m basically in a similar setting as @Andykmn. As I approach 40, I’m finding myself less worried about ‘the next best thing’ and the lightest bike I can to just wanting my next bike to be as set and forget as possible. Lube a chain, service suspension when needed, and be done. I’ve been looking hard at a Zerode Kapito for the lack of maintenance and no low hanging RD up here in the PNW.

A Supre Drive in the 140 /140 travel area would really pique my interest. Best of luck with this!
  • 2 0
 @padrefan1982: Noted. Thanks for your comment.
  • 3 0
 I found this very interesting. One challenge that wasn't mentioned was that if the system uses standard Shimano cassette, chain, shifter and cranks, I think when companies buy those for a production bike they buy them as a whole set with the derailleur for a discount compared to individual pieces. Shimano may even make it cheaper to buy the whole drivetrain, and require as a term of sale that there parts be sold and installed as a system. I would consider building your own shifter and looking to use other parts from companies like praxxis, E13, Garbaruk or KMC to get around this. Don't want a competitor controlling your product.
  • 2 0
 Somebody should be paging the BOX people. Honestly, their widerange 9 speed cassette seems about perfect in this set up to me. I love my 10-50 spread, but I often find myself double shifting out on the trail, so I’d be all over less shifting, and maybe a less sensitive set up.
  • 3 0
 I haven't broken many derailleurs, but I've broken a ton of derailleur hangers. Seems like this would reduce that at the very least. Excited to see a few of these rolling around someday.
  • 5 0
 Thanks! But to be clear, the Supre Drive doesn't reduce hanger failures, it eliminates hanger failures.
  • 5 0
 Genius. Great podcast guys.
  • 1 0
 Pretty happy w/ my drivetrain but would take a Supre I suppose

Anyway, can we maybe get one podcast that's just devoted to Henry's Incredible Sayings? Or how about a collected page so far of all his phrases like "2 inch grip on a 4 inch turd" or something like that - maybe just a rolling list link to all these. We need to see them all in writing.
  • 1 0
 Damn you kids and your smarts. Quit coming up with new designs and making me feel like I have done nothing with my life. Props to you and your drive towards bettering the sport. Success does not come without failure. You discussed the trials and testing you did. Keep pushing on no matter what anyone on here tells you. CHEERS!
  • 1 0
 Derailleurs have been a problem? But have they? Safe to say I haven't been aware of that. In 14 years of riding I've ripped exactly one derailleur off my bike and that particular crash was so bad that the derailleur was the least of my worries.
  • 2 0
 He's solving a problem, wether or not it's a major problem is irrelevant. If it improves the sport then I'm all for it. Great podcast guys!
  • 1 0
 Two podcasts in a week? I'm so confused. Is it Christmas already? Is it my birthday?
I should be ecstatic but I am left so puzzled.
I guess I should listen before some finds the error and it gets taken away.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark did you use “pinkers” of your own volition? What is going on here, must constitute a win for @mikelevy

Also cool to see calm and collected Brian with such a man crush on cedric :-)
  • 3 1
 There's trouble with drivetrains? I had a broken chain in 1997 but other than that....
  • 3 2
 Start racing, you'll see...
  • 2 0
 Or crashing...
  • 5 6
 I feel like the Supre drive train is like people asking for a faster horse/carriage before the advent of the automobile. It’s trying to solve problems with an outdated technology. I’m not on board with gearboxes yet but I hope they improve. For now, I’m content with my current drivetrain. I have an NX Eagle on No new bike and an X01 on the other. Neither seem to be as crisp as a Shimano but they work for me and I never have problems other than the occasional tune up to adjust shifting.
  • 2 0
 It is... it's a great response for now, but definitely not future. There needs to be a more radical innovative answer to our drivetrain dilemma. Again, not snuffing the wind out of his design, I love it and would be stoked to own it, but I think there's more to explore in this space.
  • 2 0
 Gearboxes are like fusion, 30 years out. Now keep in mind we were probably saying they were 30 years out 30 years ago...
  • 14 0
 If gear boxes can reach their theoretical minimum resistance, they will still have more resistance than current chain-driven drivetrains. There's no big innovation left to happen on gear boxes...it's mature technology that's used in all sorts of machines. Sure, they could be made lighter, the added resistance will always be there
  • 1 0
 I'm with you, it's a nice system but it's the same overall, with even more pulleys and gears. Imagine the chain coming of on this. Plus it requires frame to be made differently which may impede some suspension design. Gearboxes remove the trouble of the chain tension and dirt getting in your system and some of them can be install on older bikes.
  • 2 1
 Chain drive systems are far from outdated and will not be going anywhere anytime soon as explained by @skylerd. They are the best compromise of efficiency, cost, user serviceability and modularity.
Solving a primary reliability problem by moving vulnerable components out of harms way is a big step.
  • 9 0
 @m47h13u: What will we get first: a gearbox that actually works or fusion power?
  • 8 0
 @taouin: Chains are really, really good at their jobs. Belts are far too inefficient, and there's no hope of a realistic bevel-drive of any sort coming good. Chains require care, of course, but nothing is as efficient and that matters when you put out as little power as the human body does.
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy: Fusion is more likely in all honesty.
  • 1 0
 @skylerd: Yeah, there would need to be a huge break thru discovery in material science or lubrication in order to change the existing max efficiency of the a gearbox. I mean some material science or lube break thru coming from automotive research or similar.
  • 1 0
 @mikelevy: I didn't meant to remove the chain, just that you don't need a the same tension system. You can have a chain on a gearbox system, no need to go belt drive.
  • 2 0
 One of the best episodes so far!
My guess is Brian Park (the industry guy) introduced Cedric to Rocky Mountain!
  • 3 0
 I hope it's Rocky! I'll hang on to my Slayer another year or so to get a Cedric shifting Rocky for sure
  • 1 0
 This sounds like a conversation from a few years ago with the guys from Trust... Don't underestimate how much people are afraid of change!
  • 1 0
 I appreciate the advice, but Trust wasn't solving a big problem.
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer @mikelevy @brianpark - how bout an interview with the Supre developer? That would be an super damn interesting podcast & low hanging fruit in terms of: easy.
  • 2 0
 Isn't that this very podcast?
  • 2 0
 @mikelevy - I got punked! Dropped 2 shows in 2 days so I clicked what I thought was ep 89 and didn't even know ep 90 had dropped the very next day. Damn I'm thick...and stoked there's a new cast to hear.
  • 2 0
 It’s good to a solution that solves a problem.
  • 1 0
 Serious question: will you need to splice 2 chains to cover the full chain wrap in 1st gear?
  • 2 0
 It's a few extra links but definitely not two full chains. Shimano and others might start offering longer chains as high pivot bikes continue to get more popular.
  • 2 0
 Sad no one asked him about the dampener.
  • 2 1
 I swear we talked in the podcast about how he switched to a hydraulic damper, but not sure when.
  • 3 0
 @mikelevy: sorry, esoteric MTB humor attempt on my part. Re:
damper vs. dampener mtbyougoober.home.blog/2018/12/29/damp
  • 1 0
 The tides turn. (And the moon is full, at least where I'm listening from). f*ck yes, optimism.
  • 1 0
 How is it that Shimano can make a complete salt water proof bait caster fishing reel, yet can't make a gear box....?
  • 1 0
 Can’t see this getting anywhere
  • 1 0
 Don't fight BigLube!
  • 1 1
 My next derailleur will be a Pinion..
  • 1 3
 Just say it - the 'person within the industry introducing you to bike companies' is RC.
  • 7 0
 The person is actually Brian Park! I helped him with learning some CNC stuff, and he was mega helpful by introducing me to folks in the industry.
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