Tradeshow Trendspotting - Opinion

Sep 15, 2016
by Mike Kazimer  
Spinning Circles Mike Kazimer



It's tradeshow season, which means that just when my Eurobike-indjuced jet lag has subsided and I'm no longer having strange dreams about pretzels and bratwurst, it's time to head to the gaudy desert wasteland of Las Vegas for Interbike.

The endless waves of new products and marketing speak can start to feel like déjà vu all over again, especially given the cyclical nature of the bike industry (no pun intended). Products that went out of fashion ten years ago are back (3.0” tires, anyone?), albeit in an updated and improved form. That being said, these massive exhibitions of all things cycling do provide a good opportunity to view the new products that are coming down the pipeline, and to get an idea of what the near future holds for the sport.

What's on the way? Here's a quick rundown of what to expect in the coming months.


e thirteen TRS Plus dropper post
There are more dropper post options than ever, including e*thirteen's upcoming TRS Plus post.
Eightpins dropper post
Will Eightpins' integrated dropper design catch on?

Dropper Posts With More Drop

It's taken a little longer than I would have expected, but more and more bikes are now coming with 150mm or even 170mm droppers posts as standard options, at least on medium and large sized bikes. It makes sense – after all, why would you only want to move your seat partially out of the way before a steep descent?

There are also a several new players entering the dropper post arena, including e*thirteen, Ritchey, and PRO. Despite the increasing number of options, prices still haven't exactly plummeted, although they are heading in the right direction, a trend that I'd expect to continue as competition increases.

Eightpin's integrated dropper post was one of the most interesting products at Eurobike, and while Liteville is currently the only brand using the post, it's a development that's worth keeping an eye on to see if other companies decide to adopt the technology.


Rocky Mountain Slayer Photo by Margus Riga
Rocky Mountain's new Slayer has 165mm of rear travel and a 170mm fork up front.
2016 Specialized Enduro Launch
The new Specialized Enduro has 160mm of travel in the 29" version, and 170mm in the 27.5" wheeled version.


More Travel

A few years ago, the long travel single crown fork was on the verge of going extinct, left behind in the mad rush towards 27.5” wheels. That's no longer the case, and with both RockShox and Fox offering 170 or even 180mm single crown forks for 27.5” and 29” wheels we're starting to see a new crop of longer travel bikes enter the market. What would have once been called 'freeride' bikes are now being pitched as enduro race machines, but however you categorize them, it looks like 2017 is going to be bringing a new batch of these burly longer travel rigs.

Specialized's new Enduro, with its 170mm of front and rear travel, and Rocky Mountain's revamped Slayer with 165mm of rear travel are two models that immediately come to mind, and I have an inkling that we'll see other companies adding or updating their longer travel options this year, especially since we saw so many new mid-travel options launched in 2016.


E-Bikes

This is the elephant in the room, especially in North America. In Europe, the idea of pedaling around in the woods with a electric motor and a battery attached to your bike doesn't seem to be raising too many eyebrows, and at Eurobike every other booth seemed to be filled with motorized contraptions. While it may be big overseas, trail access in America is much more tenuous, and the general attitude towards motorized assistance isn't quite as easy to read.

E-bikes aren't my cup of tea, to put it nicely. I could go on a long-winded rant, but let's just say that I view e-biking as a completely different sport, one that I have little interest in. All the same, given how much money and marketing dollars major bike companies are devoting towards developing and producing e-bikes, it's certainly going to remain a hot topic for years to come.


The racers can shuttle half of this climb in practice but must pedal all 1000 meters on race day. The media crew however just might cheat a bit with E-Bikes.
Electric assistance allows photographers to justify packing even more lenses and flashes into their monstrous packs.


Drivetrain Dueling Continues

At the moment it doesn't look we're going to see any drastic changes in the drivetrain world, at least for the near future. SRAM's 12-speed Eagle drivetrain is going to be a common sight on higher end bikes next season, especially since the popularity of 1x drivetrains (and 1x specific frames) continues to increase. Shimano has their 11-speed Di2 XTR and XT drivetrains, but the demand for electronic shifting doesn't seem to be as high as it is for a wider gear ratio. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if SRAM responds with an electronic drivetrain of their own (they already have a wireless electronic road gruppo), but I'm not holding my breath that it'll be anytime soon.

Shimano XT Di2
Shimano have expanded their electric offerings...
SRAM Eagle
...while SRAM added a cog and increased their gear range.


Wide, But Not Too Wide

The hype machine was running in overdrive for 27.5+ bikes in 2016, and most of the major manufacturers now at least have one plus-sized option in their lineup. They don't seem to be replacing any particular style of bike; instead, they're being billed as another option for riders looking for a particular ride quality. They also help make 29” wheeled bikes even more versatile – bikes like the Santa Cruz Hightower or Trek Fuel EX can be set up to run 29” or 27.5+ wheels, giving riders the option to try different wheel sizes without needing a completely different bike.

At first, when 27.5+ was introduced it was originally based around 3.0” tires, but now 2.8” tires are the more common option. We're also seeing the introduction of 2.6” tires, which split the difference even further, allowing riders to toe the edge of the plus-size waters without diving completely in. Maxxis, Specialized, and Schwalbe all have 2.6" tires on the way, with more to follow.

Schwalbe 2.6
Expect the number of 2.6" tires to increase in 2017.

All the hemming and hawing about rim widths and tire size only goes to show just how much room there is for experimentation and innovation in the mountain bike world – little things like rim or tire width can have a big impact out on the trail, and our sport is still new enough that all of the variables haven't been figured out yet.


Vegas
Interbike is coming up - get ready for another wave of new bikes, components, and gear.

More to Come

Interbike kicks off on September 19th, and we'll be bringing even more tech news from Vegas once the show starts. In the meantime, forget about the future and get out for a ride - that's much more important than stressing over frame geometry, gear ratios and rim widths.



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304 Comments

  • 268 19
 The most obvious trend is rehashing old ideas and selling them at a pricepoint higher than ever before. Going around in circles and increasing the price by 10% for every lap.
  • 60 7
 There's no one to blame but the market, if the demand is there people will sell it. Also the ideas may be rehashed but most of them are probably better than the first iteration 10 years ago, I mean who other than XC boys were interested in 29ers 5 years ago?? Now there's loads of bikes fitting that ilk that people actually want.
  • 33 20
 @sewer-rat: you discounting the power of marketing and suggestion completely seems a bit naive, no? if it didn't work, that entire industry/profession/college degree would not exist. and your "better than the first iteration" comment is also a bit flimsy. my buddy's Intense Tracer 29 had basically the same travel and geo as a lot of these new bikes coming out. so did a bunch of the Niners. knew a dude with Dorrados on his Niner like 6 years ago. KHS had 29er DH bikes 5 years ago. besides the change from 26" to 650b, my Intense Tracer 2 was running a 170 Lyrik DH with a 66* HT and fairly short stays. that also was like 5 years ago. now burly 29ers are "in"? Enduro rigs (with the same exact travel/geo as my T2) are the new standard bread and butter, when 5-6 years ago a fair amount of companies were making 180 single crown bikes still, then it all but completely dried up, now its back again at a higher price point. dude is completely right. its not even a decade, we were already here half a decade ago... the churn is real.
  • 47 6
 @Sweatypants: Those bikes were heavy and the geometry wasn't quite dialed.... So I can not completely agree with that, although I've been riding "enduro" bikes long before that was a buzz word. The bikes you speak of have gotten expensive, yet if you compare apples to apples, or in this case aluminum to aluminum, you will see you can get more bike for your money today than ever. The ceiling has gotten higher is all. Is there marketing? Yes. Are there trends? Yes. Welcome to life. You can choose what to ride and vote with your wallet. Or stick on your old bike and go explore the woods. Bikes are better than ever, that is simply undeniable.
  • 22 4
 @Sweatypants: You discounting the purchasing decisions of consumers, and suggesting that the industry is based solely on marketing is also a bit naive, isn't it? That bikes have become lighter for every given class, stiffer, and sport better dampers and suspension designs might have something to do with the popularity of longer travel single crown bikes and burly 29ers, no? Simply because you can cite examples of each from 5 years ago, doesn't mean that the average consumer even knew that they existed, since the mostly likely weren't on the sales-floor down at the local shop.
  • 7 2
 @sewer-rat: I disagree, I am part of the market. I have a 27.5 bike in my collection part of an insurance claim from theft. I wanted a 26" bike but the market place did not have a 26" bike. Most of the Lbs in my city (at least Cool have few to go dh bixe for sale.
  • 13 2
 Also, if you look at Specialized, a lot of their bikes have gone down in price for 2017. The Enduro for example is $400 cheaper for 2017, this is true for a lot of other companies.
  • 19 1
 @pedalfast-huckgnar: because the US$ is strong meaning cheap supplies for Spec....and because they are getting eaten by direct sales with high-spec components at half the price
  • 14 4
 @hllclmbr: Spot on comment. At one point I was dead against all these new standards, rim width, tyre width, wheel size, axle size, bar length, stem length, alu, carbon etc etc. I have however now started to embrace it, whats wrong with making existing designs better? We are now in the age where a 170-180mm bike for pedaling around is achievable, there aren't many bikes from off the top of my head (I'm sure I'll be corrected) that can match today's releases. You could argue about residual values etc but I buy my bikes (now) to last etc, and I think the industry changing so frequently is not hitting the market that much (again I'm sure I'll stand corrected). It's a great time to be a biker at the moment, in my 29 years of MTB it has never been soo good with soo much choice. As for the 29er statement by @sweatypants , yeah there were some good bikes but unfortunately at that time the wheels were flexy, enter boost - yeah I agree we could of used 150mm hubs but I doubt many people would appreciate running the last generation of forks etc hence the new standards, you also mentioned a truly unique and brilliant bike in the Intense tracer 2, that paved the way for a lot of what we have now.
  • 4 0
 @Sweatypants:

Feal the Churn!
  • 10 0
 @hllclmbr:
" That bikes have become lighter for every given class, stiffer, ..."

I think this is more true than people who get new bikes every few years realize, because you get used to the changes. I rode a 1995 Gary Fisher for 20 years. It never stopped being fun. Then I bought my wife an entry level mountain bike (30% cheaper in 2015 than my 1995 bike, so really entry level). I threw a leg over it in the driveway and rode a small circle. Holy crap, the improvement was astonishing. Immediately obvious stiffness improvement, noticeable in the driveway; comparable weight; better fork; better shifting.
  • 10 0
 Do you think 26" will ever come back? Obviously 27.5 and 29er are better rollover but 26" is the best for big jumps/drops. Of course dj and slopestyle will always be 26", and even at Rampage a lot of big guys ride 26". Andreu's Tues is custom made for 26". My opinion is that 26" is dead in that bike companys will soon stop making 26" bikes, but 26" will eventually become a kids size. Commencal makes a 27.5 160mm kids "dh" bike. I don't know who they're trying to fool, its a Enduro bike make for really small people, I remember when I was younger riding a 26" felt so uncomfortable compared to a 20 or 24, so I can only imagine what it must be like for kids to ride a 27.5, and its especially crazy when you see the price of it. So yeah, 26" will become a kids size. Even at Wal-Mart and Target they're bikes are 27 and 29 with few 26 bikes. Where do you think 26" will go as far as manufacturing, because there will always be people who like 26" better for dh, enduro or whatever they ride
  • 4 2
 @Husker2112: I honestly think that's because those guys grew up riding 26 and learned tricks on them. Their livelihood is performing on those bikes so adapting to a larger wheel size is an unneeded difficulty. It's mostly the dj/slopestyle guys who insist on 26 even for their big bikes. The 27.5 isn't that much bigger. Unless you are into tail whips ect, I think they are a win all around.
  • 4 0
 @Husker2112: It will deffo need to be there in kids.....I had to buy a 27.5 for a lad (outgrew his big 24") as there was nothing but a few bits of crap at 26" available....the wheels are enormous for him...its going to be much harder to learn skills.
  • 9 0
 @DARKSTAR63: Exactly. My speciality is dh, and I like 27.5 best for it. But if someone likes 26", then they should ride 26", not because its whats cool now, but because its what they like
  • 2 0
 @Husker2112: Absolutely.
  • 3 0
 @Travel66: Yeah basic skills are better to learn on smaller wheels. Also getting him a bmx might not be a bad idea to learn manuals, bunnyhops and other basic skills because they're so light and not that expensive
  • 2 0
 @Husker2112: I think Kona are doing some and found this yesterday

singletrackworld.com/2016/09/eurobike-2016-wtb-26-tyres-carbon-rims
  • 7 0
 @DARKSTAR63: The aluminum bikes today are not that much lighter, if at all, than the Free ride 26" bikes from 5-6 years ago, especially with bigger wheels and tires. The hype machine is just that, but the scale does not lie.
  • 1 2
 @sewer-rat: 26+? Thats a neat idea but isn't that the thing with 275+? For people who want fatter tires but not 4" 26" wide balloons? Again its a neat idea but it seems like it won't take off that well
  • 4 0
 @Husker2112: "Not because it's what's cool now, but because it's what they like" Spot on comment mate.
  • 5 1
 @Gasket-Jeff: You are *part* of the market. But not *the* market.

Your experiences are desires are not the same as the experiences and desires of everyone else.

If 650b didn't sell, it wouldn't now be ubiquitous. The fact is, 650b caught on very quickly, sold well, and this is the result.
  • 2 0
 @Husker2112: yeah probably right fella, as stated I think Kona and Cotic are still keeping em 26" on certain models - definitely the minority though

www.konaworld.com/stinky_26.cfm

www.cotic.co.uk/product/BFe26
  • 4 2
 @SlodownU: The frame itself, perhaps not, depending on what bike you are looking at. Although the tube sets have come along, more refined engineering, they are better. Nearly everything else has become lighter, stiffer and more reliable, and the last two apply to frames without question. I usually buy a frame and ride them till they die so a new one every few years. Each bike I buy is leaps and bounds better than the one before. Have they plateaued ? A bit, yes, that is the nature of progression with machines like these, we have passed the glory days of rapid innovation. But your stance that bikes are not better than five years ago and that it is all a ruse.... it simply isn't true.
  • 5 0
 @sewer-rat: You are exactly correct. The market decides, and blaming marketers is like blaming alcohol companies for DUIs - some people do, but in my opinion it's flawed logic.

@Sweatypants we have decided they are "in" because for one reason or another they catch on. As much as I snub my nose at e/plus/"whatever is newly fashionable for what I think are dumb reasons", I have to admit that each time, it's done better. I have some 2.6 (relly like 2.8 with tread) Kenda telonix that I got for pennies on the dollar. A few buddies and I thought they would be good to destroy doing bike park laps and one of the girls who rides with us used one for her winter bike. They worked fine, but trust me, they feel like a small moto tire on your wheel. However, compared to these new, lighter, better designed "plus" tires, I don't think they hold a candle. True, they are quite different, the telonix being monstrously lugged beasts, but that just shows you the market then and the market now. They are bringing back old concepts that may have had potential and doing them well.

Just ignore the hype and be happy that "normal" bike gear can be found cheaper now that the latest and the greatest is something else. You don't have to buy it just because Pinkbikers say it's cool Wink
  • 5 2
 @recipher: 650b sold well because every bike mag, website & bike shop starting yelling 26 is dead in late 2013 early 2014. People were afraid to buy the 26'er that were still available for fear of bad resale.
  • 5 4
 @Darknut: I think that is your perception. I bought my first 27.5 bike because I simply liked the bike better. Even still I am not afraid that my 26 inch Wilson is going to be impossible to buy wheels for. In fact I just bought new wheels for it and there is plenty of selection still out there. This fear you speak of is in the heads of a very select few people who are resistant to change.

If every other industry gave in to people like you, we would have a very stagnant car/motorcycle/atv market. I don't get why cyclists are so up in arms about changes in wheelsize when in most cases there are at least 5 or 6 different bikes that use the same parts. I can't even pull the fork off of my 2007 WR250 to put onto my 2007 YZF450 or vice-versa and those are made by the same company in the same year. Get over it.
  • 2 1
 @DARKSTAR63: can't argue that bikes have gotten better but we aren't getting more bike for our money. More bike but not more for the money. I'm quite sure that the profit of a single bike has grown over the years.
  • 1 0
 Yeah but look how far bikes have come. Sure, 10 years ago $6000 got you a top of the line bike while today a mid-spec bike costs that much or more. But a mid-spec bike in 2017 is so far superior to a top of the line bike from back then. Bikes cost more but that's largely because people expect so much more than they did 10 years ago. In my opinion, we're getting way more bike for the money.
  • 4 0
 @h-beck83: I don't know about that. In 2005 the second-highest level Nomad was priced at around $5750US (couldn't find the price of the top-spec). With inflation that works out to a whopping $7,085US today. Conversely, a 2016 Nomad Carbon can be had with an X01 build for $6700. Pretty much blows a hole in your theory.
  • 2 2
 @DARKSTAR63: I never said bikes where better 5 years ago, don't put words in my mouth, nice try. However Bikes have progressed in terms of construction when it comes to carbon, not so much with aluminum though. They still double and triple butt tubes, and hydroforming is nothing new. As a matter of fact, some of the older frames from Titus or Turner are still constructed way better than most modern frames. They used high-end butted tube sets from Reynolds, with CNC machined parts as well. You only find that shit on Litevilles, Canefields, Nicolai, boutique brands these days. If I'm gonna buy a mass-produced bike from Taiwan, it's gonna be carbon. If I want pretty aluminum, I'm going boutique.
  • 6 2
 And this notion of 160mm bikes coming under 30lbs is bullshit, carbon or not. The only way your maybe getting to 28.5-29lbs is with $2000 carbon wheels, a top of the line gruppo, and baloney-skin tires with 2oz of sealant. Your not getting your xt or X1 bike with aluminum wheels close to that, especially after you put pedals and dropper on. The only bikes that tipped the old Park scale anywhere near the 30lb promised land were $7-8k bikes with carbon hoops. And frankly speaking, I don't want my 160mm bike to be that light.
  • 2 0
 @h-beck83: I disagree. I think the price for a top of the line bike may have gone up, but if you actually compare entry level or mid level bikes- you get a much more capable, ridable machine for less money (adjust for inflation) than you did 5-10 years ago.
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU: check out Radon and Propain bikes , incredible value and weight
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU: I didn't say you said they were better... you said its all a "hype machine" inferring that the bikes have not improved that much, I think they have. That and I may have confused you and SweatyPants. Lot going on here haha
  • 1 0
 @brandonf: Amen Brando look at a Kona Explosive from 1992, same price today but the fork and brakes work.
  • 2 0
 @SlodownU: seriously man. i had overbuilt DH wheels on my T2 170/165mm f/r travel. DBair, Lyrik Air DH, HR 2.35"s, Atlas FR cranks... 30.5lbs. the only things lighter these days in the Enduro/FR category... have Fox 34's and dumb tires... or carbon. and even then by at most what... 2lbs.?
  • 10 1
 @recipher: How could 650b not sell? Within 12-18 months it was the only option. That isnt "catching on", it's changing the default. After riding a couple 650b bikes i will concede some advantages, but these were certainly not worth throwing the established user base out the window in such a short time. Large greed disguised as small innovation...
  • 4 1
 2.6 and 2.8 plus size already indicates some back tracking on the plus size trend and it will be interesting to see what else back tracks in the next few years as the outer limits of many current trends are upon us.

The increasingly long low slack bikes are sure to inspire shorter quicker bikes shortly. It won't be long before people start looking at the 11/36 cassette and 24t chain ring beside an 11/42 or better 10/50 and wonder how they thought an 11 or 12 speed cassette would improve the efficiency of their bikes. Seriously look at the 3 items together and ask yourself that.

As bikes become more complicated due to more adjustments, electronics and expensive materials there will be a back to basics trend for more robust simpler and less expensive bikes.
  • 1 0
 @Husker2112: And the wheels rarely need truing, especially with 48 spoke wheels on 20" rims. The whole bike will rarely if ever need any maintenance.
  • 1 0
 @trialsracer: no doubt man... i've been riding 29er trail bikes for a few years now and 26 DH bikes. i personally just don't care, but i find it funny that its blatantly recycled from the not-so-distant past and people try to justify that as the market wants, like consumers are all knowing... when often the market doesn't know what you want until you tell it so. depends on the specific circumstances at hand though i guess.
  • 1 1
 @Sweatypants: Yep nothing really new this year and people are sick of the ever increasing costs but limited if any increase in value per dollar spent. Bike sales were down for the industry last year and that trend will likely continue as higher prices push more people out of the market.
  • 1 2
 @DARKSTAR63: Not in all ways, many materials are not as robust so things cost more and have to be replaced more often making it a double whammy increase.

Most of the latest trends aren't better for most riders and things like geometry are cyclical. Longer and slacker now will turn into shorter steeper and quicker soon enough.
  • 2 0
 @davemud: What's stopping anyone from getting a sweet 140-150mm forked single-speed hardtail with the material and wheel size of their choice? That's as simple as it comes and you can get dozens of them right now on the open market.
  • 1 0
 Still waiting for Shimano's 14 gear patent to be realised.
  • 1 1
 @pedalfast-huckgnar: That's because sales were down last year.
  • 4 0
 @SlodownU:

Bone stock Giant Reign Advanced 2 size large is 28lbs

Source - both me and my best bud ride one.
  • 2 1
 @SlodownU: Have to agree. If you have a 160mm bike even at 30lb, don't expect to ride it hard with out breaking something real quick like.
  • 2 0
 @FarmeR57: Kind of have to agree. I personally like having wheels as small as necessary because it gives the bike a certain nimbleness with the added lighter weight and higher strength. I probably will always ride 26" because you should be able to find rims and tires well into the future and I make whatever frame I want.

I don't remeber any consumer demand screaming for 27.5 wheels. It was industry driven to create sales. I think overall sales were kind of slowing down so it was a good tool to say LOOK, BUY, THEY ARE SO MUCH MORE FUN. And I can't stand to ride 29'ers. They just feel awful. Not sure why they have gotten so popular.
  • 1 0
 @Peregrinebikes: Consumers don't have to demand anything. They just have to purchase things. The consumer bought 27.5" wheels.

Now, imagine had "the industry" pushed 24" wheels instead. Stiffer! Stronger! Accelerate Faster! More Nimble! all of which are true. How would the market respond?
  • 1 0
 @hllclmbr: They would probably buy into it. They can be quite fun because you can whip them around like nothing, lower center of gravity, and wicked strong without BOOST even!
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU:

My nomad s weighs 30.5 lbs with pedals

It has i9 32 spoke aluminum wheels, x1 build, heavy s1000 crank with a steel chainring and a dropper. I'm using 2.3" exo dhf/mss and 203mm xt brakes.

I could get it to 29.5lbs with different cranks and a saddle. 27-28lb 3rd gen cc nomads exist with the builds you describe.

I'm not trying to brag about my bike, i just think your numbers are a bit exaggerated.
  • 2 0
 @Husker2112: It could take off. It's been around for a decade or so. Personally been rocking old school 26 x 2.8 Duro Leopards for a few years now and they suit my riding style quite very well despite being excessively thick and heavy. Indestructible though. Surly has some good modern 26+ tires for quite some time now. I can get low on the rear for the steep stuff. 27.5+ rear will limit that somewhat, while 24+ is really the best for getting low.

Some more benefits of 26+ being the fact that they will go into a regular 27.5 frame (with enough clearance) and your wheels will be similar outer diameter thus maintaining proper geo.

There's around 10 or so pretty decent tires available in this format already, and there word of a number of new 26 plus tires in the pipeline from a number of brands including some 26 x 2.8 Minions!
  • 1 0
 @Travel66: direct sales, I now too many having prolonged warranty claims.
Cheap to buy in but painful if you need support.
  • 1 2
 Boo Hoo. sell your bike and quit mountain biking for the evil that is ruining everyone's fun.
  • 1 1
 @FarmeR57: Agreed, anything will sell when its the only option. Most of the time there is no added value for changes like 27.5 just added cost all the way down the supply line and something to point at and talk about that is different.
  • 1 1
 @hllclmbr: You obviously realize such a bike isn't suitable for the mass market/average rider and thats what I'm talking about. The industry pushes the average ride looking for a typical trail bike in ways many of us don't want to go.
  • 1 0
 @brandonf: that is a nonsense argument with all due respect
  • 1 0
 @Gasket-Jeff:
This is my camp, argumentatively speaking. I want smaller wheels and I have good rational reasons, but the market won't let me buy them.
Part of that is the insane proliferation of options. Good luck keeping a full selection without being CRC.
I mean, Norco, er, I mean LTP isn't even big enough that they're comfortable carrying Danny Macaskill's signature rim despite carrying most of the Spank line, basically just because it's 24". Your grandma has probably seen Danny's riding and yet
  • 1 0
 @Fattylocks: are you OPA?
  • 1 1
 @DarrellW: another old hand disappearing is 48h bmx wheels. Just TRY and find one today.
  • 2 3
 @sewer-rat: Don't confuse the demand to participate with demand for unwanted products offered as the only options available to participate. Makes you look as dumb as the MTB industry. :/
  • 3 1
 @Trials-FTW: Oh I'm sorry - I didn't realize the industry was holding a gun to our heads saying we must buy these products. I just thought that if they are going to spend the time developing them, manufacturing them and stocking them then there must be some demand from the consumer market - how dumb I am
  • 1 0
 @sewer-rat: Couldn't agree more. It gets on my tits when people complain about new standards. Just don't buy them if it bothers you, stop crying about it.
  • 91 8
 Mike glad you pointed out that EBikes aren't Mountain Bikes. They have a motor witch makes them, well a (Motor Bike) . End of story.
  • 19 48
flag sewer-rat (Sep 15, 2016 at 4:54) (Below Threshold)
 its not all about Merica

www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
  • 35 16
 E-bikes use a combination of human power and electric power; They're hybrids. A Toyota Prius is a hybrid. I rest my case.
  • 6 1
 @sewer-rat: cheers. We should be calling them EAPC then and not E-bikes. At least the government is taling a sensible view on it.
  • 9 1
 @sewer-rat: I ride a CAPC (caffeine assisted pedal cycle) and a DHAPC... you can probably work that one out...
  • 24 2
 @MTBrent: when does a human pedal a primus?
  • 3 0
 @fartymarty: and also one of the nicest Krampus I've seen
  • 1 5
flag Marcusthefarkus (Sep 15, 2016 at 6:00) (Below Threshold)
 @sewer-rat: keep telling yourself that....
  • 43 38
 Anybody who uses lifts or shuttles has no right to complain about e-bikes. Actually, the e-bike is the least bad of these three options.
  • 32 4
 @cvoc: It's not about actual environmental harm, its about the perception and trail access issues. Mike is not alone in his feelings that this is a different sport. In this continent when people see a motor and two wheels, it's a motorcycle. The struggle for trail access and the rate at which trails are being taken away in some places in the US would be absurd in most of the world's perception... I'm just lucky enough to live in a place where trail access isn't really an issue Wink
  • 3 1
 Ebikes in germany are motorbikes if not mistaken. Mtb areas are hard enough to find...
  • 5 0
 @jrocksdh: unfortunately you are mistaken. Only the 45kph(27mph) model are considered light moterbikes.
  • 6 0
 @jrocksdh: unless they can go faster than 25kph with assist, you are mistaken. Most E-Bikes here take you anywhere up to the 25kph mark. Legally speaking they are bicycles. Anything above is like a small motorcycle and needs a plate and insurance.
  • 18 0
 Of course manufactures are all over this. Make it Easy, make it easy always sells more. Increases the masses of people accessing trails that have little skill or fitness. part of the brotherhood of mtb is knowing what it takes to be on the trails and ride. hopefully some respect of the trails and others on it. Leave ebikes to the commuters too lazy to pedal.
  • 3 1
 @cvoc: I certainly agree with that view, except I would like to qualify that it's the least bad (actually quite a good option) if you are using it on 4x4 roads or auto routes. However, I think you should at the least have to turn it off on the trails or remove the battery and throw it in your pack... kinda like keeping a dog on a leash or electric collar - it shows other users you aren't a selfish twat.

and trail access becomes the real issues, here in the states.

@ajjrsons amen.
  • 10 26
flag Dustfarter (Sep 15, 2016 at 9:32) (Below Threshold)
 With e-bikes WAY too many people ( Mike Kazimer included apparently) are letting ignorance, jealousy and an unreasonable bias cloud their perspective and that is the biggest issue with electric assist. The negative perception of the riders and the general public alike.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most riders bitching about them have never ridden one. I was like that too. Riding one was a revelation though.
It's no where close to riding a motor bike and not the same thing at all. It's not true mountain biking either but it's extremely close and the actual physical impact on the trail is the same. Contrary to popular belief you don't go roosting around the trails like a dirt bike would and to ride an electric assist on dirt bike trails would be as safe as riding a moped on a Los Angeles Freeway.
IMHO if more people adopted e-bikes the world would be a better place. The negative impact that dirt (motor) bikes have on trails is undeniable and just imagine a world where there were more e-bikes than cars or small motor bikes (like in many large Asian cities). The air would be cleaner and the general population would be much healthier (you DO still have to pedal).
  • 7 1
 Ultimately does it matter? People use them for different reasons. Some people use em instead of shuttles, some use em for trail riding and some for commute but does it matter ?? Surly if people are riding instead of being on the couch that's gotta be a good thing
  • 8 1
 @sewer-rat: Not necessarily. The issue is the amount of traffic a trail can handle annually, both from an erosion and bike vs other users standpoint. E-bikes up that traffic depending on a number of things (proximity to major city, difficulty of trail, etc). This increase can be substantial. Trail traffic is self limiting by the physical exertion needed to access it. This is removed with the introduction of e-bikes, and is exactly why motorized trails exist.
  • 3 0
 @gdnorm: That is a very fair and valid point for some areas but in reality how many new people are going to go out and buy a very expensive e-bike ( one that can handle real trails) and then have the skills to take it out on real trails? So far the only people I've seen in a scenario like that are people that are already real mountain bikers. Myself included.
  • 3 1
 @sewer-rat: Exactly. I'm using mine to self shuttle trails that myself and others are already shuttling and riding super fast on DH and Enduro rigs.
Yesterday I met a lady on an e-bike on a fire road who must have been north of 60. She was just enjoying nature and the sunset. This is a person who definitely is also a hiker/ equestrian who's eyes are now open to the benefits of a bike. Those are typically the people who are very anti-bike in my area.
  • 6 0
 @Dustfarter: Quite a few here in Utah. Enough that Park City passed an ordinance specifically banning any e-bike from trails. Also as the BLM and NFS ruled the same last year I am betting it's more of a problem than people think.

I don't understand how people think electric assist is somehow ok because for what I assume is a percieved non-pollution aspect of e-bikes. You burn coal or natural gas, dam rivers, or create nuclear waste to charge the batteries in most of the world.
  • 3 0
 @gdnorm: any enemy of Park City is a friend of mine!
  • 1 0
 @owl-X: HA! Liked. PC is pretty goofy. I should correct that and say Summit County.
  • 1 1
 @MTBrent: they use two motors actually, electrical and gas. A hybrid configuration of two different types of motor. So your notion is....... I rest my case
  • 4 1
 I really enjoy MTB. Kept riding these since I got my first one. I've had to go through open heart surgery lately, and I believe I won't be able to push it as hard as I used to before, and I even think about the point where I won't be able to do biking as soon as it gets too rough. For me an electric-assisted bikes in my older days will be something I'll be looking at rather than giving up biking. I looked at these E-bike without much interest frankly before, but I believe I'll be happy to get one, one day.
  • 5 2
 @gdnorm: True but that is not a valid reason IMHO to keep a pedal assit bike off trails that are legal for mtb use. IMHO they have no more impact on the trails and pose no more dangers to others users than a regular mtb.
Although they do have a "motor" you can't roost a trail or ride down any faster than a regular mtb. They're actually slower descending and that's the crux not climbing 3-4 mph faster than a spandex clad XC guy. While is may be demoralizing getting pissed because an old fat guy passes you on a climb is not a reason to limit them.

If it's o.k. to drive to shuttle , or worse, cut down vast swathes of trees for ski lifts then a quite, pollution free ( obvious big picture electric issues notwithstanding) e-bike should really be o.k.

They're getting banned due to a unfair and uninformed negative bias rather than a real issue.
What are the REAL issues with e-bikes other than this? I simply just don't see it.
  • 2 1
 @Dustfarter: That is not why they are being banned. Trail usage is the issue and is why they are illegal already on BLM and national forest/park land. It's about sustainable traffic load on the trail. You can read up on it for a better understanding as to why those entities made the decision they did.
  • 3 2
 I do lots of riding with LOTS of extended climbing (2500' elevation gain is normal). There are people who literally can't do that, but they want to enjoy the fun of riding their bikes. E-bikes make that a possibility for those who aren't able to make the climb, and it keeps them grounded (with the weight... literally) as they enjoy a nice downhill. They don't destroy trails like horses or motorcycles, but they offer access to riding that they otherwise would not have.
  • 5 2
 @Thustlewhumber: And that is why motorized trails exist.
  • 2 5
 @gdnorm: With respect I think that is total BS for most areas. E-bikes are not magically going to increase the number of users to a level where trail usage / and wear is an issue. They'e too expensive ( the real ones that get you on real trails). Newbie riders are limited by their skill set not the bike. It's as hard if not harder to climb and descend tech trails on an e-bike. Fire roads are a different story.
It is a handy excuse to ban them though.
  • 4 4
 @gdnorm: To suggest that e-bikes should be relegated to motorized trails is just ignorant and dangerous for all. You don't ride at even close to the same speeds. It would be equally dangerous for e-bike users and moto users to share trials.
  • 6 0
 The way I see it is that ebikes will essentially open up back country and remote area to the masses. Some of these areas were never meant to be accessed easily on electric motorbikes. It reminds me of a park not to far from me is 1000's of miles of lakes and rivers. No motorized boats are allowed on any of it. This keeps the numbers down impacts low on environmentally significant land. If you were allowed motors on any of the boats this area would be overrun with people fishing camping and over using the park.
  • 5 1
 Ebikes : mtb :: crossfit : powerlifting
  • 2 0
 @Dustfarter: luckily people who actually understand trail usage issues have already made these decisions.
  • 4 0
 @gdnorm: not in the UK, some trail centers actually hire out these bikes to riders. I know in the US its different but there have been no major issues that I know to over here, other than people shouting cheat from the shuttle bus Smile
  • 3 5
 @sewer-rat: @Dustfarter: Lots of good pragmatic points guys.

ALSO CAN PEOPLE PLEASE STOP DOWN VOTING JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T AGREE ON A DEBATABLE TOPIC. FAIR ENOUGH DOWN VOTING FOR DUMB ASS COMMENTS. (rant over).

I think the US is different to elsewhere. Access it fairly good in the UK as long as everyone is sensible about it - I am talking multi use trails eg bridalways. As such I don't think EAPC's are ever going to be an issue on these types of trails in the UK - if used sensibly.

I think the debate needs to occur in each country. It doesn't make any sense for someone from the US to talk about EAPC's in the UK or vice versa without living in the area and understanding the local issues. In some US states their use will be fine, others it wont.

As for them being classified as MTB - I think they are and don't have an issue sharing trails as long as everyone is sensible (ditto MX bikes, horses and walkers). Maybe when I am 70 and my body starts giving up I will buy one. Hopefully I will still be fit and can pedal.
  • 1 1
 @Bikethrasher: Mike didn't say that. He doesn't say they aren't. Instead he is pretty considerate saying it is his personal view. Which is fine. Many (like Sheldon Brown) didn't view downhill racing as mountainbiking either. I think it is now more widely accepted. It takes time, apparently.

Don't ever start a thread on a public forum ending with "end of story". It isn't by any means. You just opened a can of worms. Now look at that mess. Damn.
  • 4 2
 @vinay:

Here is a statement from someone on an while forum that I agree with

There's a raft of reasons that knowledgeable pedal cyclists have some distaste for e-bikes and those who ride them. First of all, most e-bikes are comparable to the cheapest and nastiest pedal bikes in their build quality, whether they're turn-key or DIY. Second, most e-bikers tend to set themselves up in an ineffective position that indicates they're uninterested in expending any effort. That connotes lameness/phoniness/laziness, which is unattractive to anyone.

E-bikes as a group overwhelmingly go for gimmicky, tawdry, hideously cheap and/or obviously uninformed equipment and fit choices, compared to most pedal cyclists. While a few of those choices make sense in context, others are telling of the e-biker's inexperience as a bike rider, and none of them make a good impression on a seasoned cyclist. To be fair, this is not fundamentally different from the impression many noob or playtime pedal cyclists make.

E-bikers are also more likely to be car people, and that puts them in the category of abuser to many cyclists.

You may notice that all the differences I've noted are chiefly cultural. Those are intractable differences-- someone who's enchanted by the newest power toys, happily trades money for physical effort, and chafes at power and speed limitations is unlikely to find a whole lot of common ground with those who have chosen quiet, slow, simple, time-tested methods that demand both physical effort and personal commitment. These extremes of course leave us a lot of space in between that contains both pedal end electric cyclists"
  • 1 0
 @tigerteeuwen: I just can't seeing noobs dropping the big sums of cash it takes to buy an EAPC.

IMHO the following are more likely to buy one:

a) Riders who want to ride to the trail rather than taking a car or an uplift.
b) Older riders who still want to get out for a lengthy ride, maybe with younger riders.
c) Riders with injuries that prevent them from riding.
d) Riders who just want to go further and explore more trails in a given time.

These people are already among us. Personally I can see the appeal of them for reasons a) and d).
  • 3 0
 @fartymarty: e) Riders that will have to be rescued after getting 40 miles from the trailhead & their 55 lbs E-bike fails & they are not fit enough to ride it back.
  • 1 0
 @Darknut: LOL.

Although not in the UK as you're no more than a few miles from a pub. Just sink a few farty ales while you wait for the missus to pick you up.
  • 2 0
 @dtm1: This is funny on a number of levels
  • 2 0
 while i wouldnt ever get an e-bike, it was good to see the author give an example of non-lazy uses to e-bikes. photographers aren't out there for a ride, they're there to work, and still need to keep up with unencumbered riders. i wouldnt feel so bad about using one if i had a 50lb pack of gear.
  • 2 0
 @fartymarty: sounds like performance enhancing drugs to me. #banned
  • 1 2
 @Dustfarter: make a well spoken and rational point = negative props. sorry bro.
  • 1 0
 @fartymarty: this is everything that is wrong with the world in my eyes: make the reward easy. But by doing so the lustre of the reward is mostly or completely lost. If you don't know what I mean then you don't get it and ebikes are ok, just like chairlifts, shuttling, heli, etc.

IMO, skinning for hours for one great descent blows on taking a cat or heli for multiple runs.

I really think many need to find this out if they don't already know it.
  • 1 2
 How does are so few on here seeing that the potential for a rapid influx of trail traffic is the issue here? It has nothing to do with how you "feel" towards e-bikes, who is earning what, cheating, how much they weigh, how fast they go, "people drove there anyway", allowing access to physically disadvantaged groups. It's about keeping trails usable year after year, not widening or otherwise altering them to handle more public use, and seeing access restricted to all bikes as a result.
  • 1 1
 @gdnorm: for the US yes, for Europe no. Broaden your viewpoint fella
  • 2 0
 @rexluthor: If the mountains are big (im talking the alps etc with thousands of metres of elevation) I fall into the shuttling, chairlift category. There's no way in hell I would want to ride to the top of Alpe Dhuez for a run down the Mega (if you haven't ridden it you should as its fun).

However in Southern England the biggest hills are a few hundred metres and I don't have a problem riding up.

At the end if the day it depends why you ride and what type of ride you want to have. Each to their own I say.
  • 2 2
 @sewer-rat: Erosion doesn't occur in Europe? Trails don't widen with increased use?
  • 2 0
 @gdnorm: Ive said it before , I'll say it again- here in the UK we ride in rain week in week out! Trail erosion happens but we still ride, dig and repeat. Looking at the ranks and our riders we aren't doin too bad
  • 2 0
 @sewer-rat: added to that we have 8x the population density of the US (and more than that for Canada). Trail erosion isn't a huge problem here therefore should be no worse in North America. I just don't see tgis as an argument against EAPCs.
  • 1 1
 @fartymarty: and the fact on a lot of trails we use sustainable and hard wearing materials, Wales is literally slate and brick Beer
  • 2 0
 @fartymarty: In the US closed trail access to bikes usually happens because of "perceived" threats more than any actual threat.... IMHO. Horses destroy trails way worse than bikes do but it is not seen that way by most people.

Trail closures do happen in the US & E-bikes on trails just gives the anti bike crowd a giant bullet.
  • 1 0
 @Darknut: do you think there's the possibility that if more people are riding /there is enough to generate a change that the change may be for the positive and more trails open?? I don't know the US but here MTB and trail centres are getting more and more popular with more people employed through this industry. it's just a thought that maybe they could sway it in the opposite direction
  • 2 2
 @MTBrent: I stand corrected. That makes them a Moped. Hmmm when was the last time I saw someone pedal a moped? All I know is that mtn bikes don't have motors or throttles. I don't have a problem with Mopeds. Just don't put them in the same catigory as regular pedal bikes. That's pretty much like lumping us with Motorcycles. And if you live in America and follow politics even a little bit. You know being attached to motor bikes is a Death blow to trail access and usually leads to trail closures. Sorry, but we have worked extremely hard to separate our selves from the motor weilding crowd. It's taken years to prove our sport is low impact. Again I'm sorry but anything with a motor is Not low impact. Don't for a second give me that. Well it's only pedal assist Bullshit. Bullshit! Bullshit! Damned. You people obviously know very little about today's motors and batteries. It's not too difficult make your 20mph Moped into a 50mph tire smoking, trail shredding Monster. Lots of People are already doing it. The only Moped I've seen on the trail was able to spray roost at the twist of the throttle. It was strange without the usual Braaap. Shit even the manufactures are making Moped specific tires and Suspension. Albeit they are heavier and much sturdier to handle the abuse of the power just waiting to be unleashed.
With that kind of power and speed the climbs are lots of fun, but our trails get torn to shit in a hurry. But at least now you can Roost the shit out of those angry hikers! They don't care. They would'nt be pissed enough to tell anybody their pissed. They don't vote either. Get a clue People. Mopeds Are Not Mtn Bikes! Industry people you need to segregate this shit before it hurts your real business. IMBA you will not receive another Penny from me or anybody I know until you take a firm stand. Stating. "Mopeds /E-bikes are not Mtn bikes and you don't support their use on non motorized trails". You are a Mtn bike advocacy group not a Motor bike advocacy group aren't you? You should also demand their name be changed to E-MOTOR BIKES OR Mopeds. To further clear up all the confusion on this topic.

For those of you who don't live in the US. You can do what ever you want. I'm not here to meddal in your business like our government does.

Full disclosure. The actions of our government Do Not Represent the wishes of the majority people living in this country. Only 2% get heard here. The rest of us get the bill and little more.
This isn't a complicated topic. It's Black And White. Don't make it Grey. Make it what it is. A Moped. Period end of Story.
  • 1 0
 @Bikethrasher: Rant liked! www.imba.com/sites/default/files/motorized%20position-IMBA%202010.pdf

Pretty weak answer on their part, but at least you can see they only want them on motorized trails.
  • 1 0
 @lyophilization: I agree in that one aspect. If I were a photographer and a rider with decent but mortal level skills I sure as hell wouldn't be able to keep up with the likes of Semenuk, or Zink, Kintner, Nate Hills or whoever regardless of what I were riding. Much less with 50 lbs of gear on my back.
  • 62 2
 Can someone direct me to a place where I can buy a 27.5"+ 170mm e-bike, ideally one with a drop in 29er option? My 2015 Process is now obsolete and I need to ensure I stay 100% on trend!!

Oh yea, must also have a 200mm dropper post for future proofing and be in zanny lumo colours
  • 9 0
 make sure it has boost + (20mm 115mm front and 16.5mm 160mm wide in back) and shimano di2 xtr panda (electronic 12 speed 11-52 cassette) and tripple piston brakes with water-cooling system* (team propain patent-pending*).
  • 4 0
 ... an "e-dropper 200" at that with a new saddle rail standard Smile
  • 3 0
 You can easily find one 5 years in the future. Of course you'll have about a year after you buy it to enjoy it before it becomes obsolete and you'll need to spend another $10k on a new one
  • 3 0
 Oh, and 27+ will be gone by then, you'll have to settle for a 29+ or 36er
  • 2 0
 Lumo is only in for the next 6 months then it's pastel colours through til early 2018 so your bike will be obsolete again....sorry
  • 49 3
 Nice that a journalist actually takes a stand on ebikes. Glad to know you have a set, Mike.
  • 7 1
 Interesting comment on the picture though about how photographers could carry much more equipment on a shoot. Hadn't thought about that one...
  • 6 1
 @PRCVT: As someone who has had a cr*p load of gear to carry into the trails, I actually think this could be really damn helpful.
However that's the only situation I would personally use one.
  • 4 0
 @EDBProductions: Agreed but where do we draw the line!!! As a biker, I say no to ebikes. I pedal my mountain bikes and the pedaling part is important to me. As a rock climber, I envision being able to reach far away locations for climbing trips, humping in all my gear on an ebike cause biking isn't what I am really doing on that trip....Its all so conflicting and confusing. Damn you ebikes!
  • 12 0
 Props to you Kazimer for the public stand from canuckistan
  • 3 0
 I think he hit the nail on the head. It's a different activity (because it surely isn't a sport.) We can share some equipment, sure, but I'd just as soon they have their own trails. I'm not sure why an expectation exists that just because it rolls on two wheels and has some similar pieces it should be allowed the same access.
  • 2 1
 But if you really want a squid perspective on ebikes, head on over to Bikerumor... They've got you covered.
  • 3 0
 @PRCVT: I read an interview somewhere with a Specialized ebike marketeer who was arguing that ebikes are awesome for mountainbiking, and would actually increase trail access, because it would allow trail builders to take tools to more remote parts of trail networks without endless hiking or the need to get there via moto. Throw that together with their line about how it's all about increasing access/participation for folks with disabilities, and man, you can just tell the manufacturers are trying very hard to make these things palatable to the community in some way.
  • 1 0
 @PRCVT: Yeah and you can carry more tools to do trail maintenance Smile
  • 2 0
 @Rucker10: Is MX a sport to you?

I don't like E-bikes neither, but saying it's not a sport is like saying MX is not a sport...
  • 1 0
 @Mountain-Dalek: Ok, maybe Ebike riders are what 4-wheeler riders are to MX riders then.
  • 1 0
 @PRCVT: its a solid point really. really big of him to throw that out there after stating he was against e-bikes.
  • 1 0
 @g-42: another great point. to build trails at our bike park (no trail crew on staff, all volunteer work) i have to drive my car up the hill partway, then hoof it to the build spot. if i had an e-bike (will never happen) it would solve several access issues i have, and allow me to build more shit.
therefor e-bikes = more trails!
  • 48 10
 (rant)
  • 21 0
 I disagree
  • 10 3
 It is a fact, Ratboy went for E-bi... (rant)
  • 10 0
 @WAKIdesigns: e-bi-gum lad?
  • 4 0
 [disagrees with all, in the least constructive way]
  • 5 2
 @Caiokv: (I insult you)
  • 1 0
 that metaphor was so obscure.
  • 29 1
 "At first, when 27.5+ was introduced it was originally based around 3.0” tires, but now 2.8” tires are the more common option. We're also seeing the introduction of 2.6” tires, which split the difference even further, allowing riders to toe the edge of the plus-size waters without diving completely in. Maxxis, Specialized, and Schwalbe all have 2.6" tires on the way, with more to follow."

So we start out with a 'new' standard of 3.0" 27.5+ and gradually get narrower and narrower until we reach where we started from in the first place at around 2.3" - 2.4"... Sounds about right!
  • 5 0
 or, going back further, 2.6" on 26" rims... probably closer to a 650B diameter than using 650B tires haha
  • 28 1
 If you can make a light bike and stop it bobbing about and pedal efficiently, then why not have 170mm of travel in a trail bike. More fun on the way down charging.
  • 13 0
 agreed.....these really aren't like the old 26" big travel freeride bikes at all...
  • 16 0
 I might prefer the "Lotus Elise Approach" and keep a bike who doesn't need alpine's rowdiness to feel lively and behave sprightly. Overkilling is not always the funniest IMO
  • 6 1
 Soon we might see 200 mm super enduro bikes!
  • 7 0
 Geo is always a compromise... Even 2 bikes with same geo and set to the same sag, the one with more travel will slacken the HA by 3 degrees uphill rather than 2 and vice versa downhill, and same drawback concerning BB height. So we want a good downhill geo and somehow the rear to stay high in its travel uphill. Suspension settings help but not much. When shapeshifter equivalents become reliable, light, easy to use... There will be good reasons to install them on those big travel trail bikes
  • 7 0
 @Caiokv: You mean downduro. Already a thing.
  • 2 0
 @Uuno: sounds like they need to bring back the u-turn features on the pikes and lyrics.
  • 1 0
 @burnadette: And boxxer
  • 3 0
 @Uuno: this. can everyone keep commenting this until they we get some more options than shapeshifter and bionicon
  • 2 0
 @freebikeur: That's why I got a scout over a patrol
  • 2 0
 Depends on what that does to the fun factor when riding anything but downhill. I demoed some longer travel bikes where I was truly surprised by how little bob/inefficiency there was when just cranking up the fire road. So if all you're doing is cranking up fire roads, then riding down, yes, it makes sense to go to more travel if it's efficient. But those same bikes aren't as much fun if you're climbing single track. So if you get tired of the fire roads, the shorter travel opens up geometry to allow for more fun up, with a bit of a tradeoff going down.

For me, a short-ish travel aggressive 29er (Process, Smuggler, etc.) is a great compromise, because while I do think of going uphill as earning my turns, I do most of it on singletrack instead of grinding up roads (because I dislike the monotony of climbing roads, and ride in a place where there are climb trails). If I lived in a place where all the ups were fire roads, I'd probably rock a little more squish.
  • 2 1
 One thing to consider is that 170mm of bike when you really don't need it can feel just downright squishy. If you like going fast, you are probably running stiffer suspension anyway. Same reason dual slalom bikes aren't trail bikes unless the course necessitates them. It's always a trade-off, of course.
  • 1 0
 @g-42: @g-42: I rock a little more squish and climb roads. You wouldn't be able to climb up the trails I ride down for the most part.
  • 26 4
 Is it me or that Eightpin integrated design is the best new thing since sliced bread?
  • 3 0
 Need a better way to set maximum height on it.
  • 18 2
 It's you.
  • 8 0
 But when it fails, can you go back to your car/home and switch it for a rigid post while the faulty is being serviced?
  • 8 1
 I'm failing to see how this is any more integrated that something like a Reverb for example. It seems like it is still a removable seatpost but the top collar bit looks a bit more flush.
  • 2 0
 @bigtim: The seat can drop lower by another inch and a bit it seems.....that's a good thing!
  • 1 0
 I wouldn't say that... but I would say that out of most of the coverage from these events it's one of the few things that really has my attention. I think it's a great option for companies to partner up with them or other companies and create something like this. Probably specific to the higher end offerings... but still. You're going to get one anyways. Why not get one that's integrated, cleaner and lighter. I think it's pretty bad ass.
  • 2 0
 @Mountain-Dalek:

It's a single tube design. In theory it should be incredibly reliable. They're also very easy to remove to send out to have serviced. And servicing should be relatively quick since numbers are still pretty damned small right now.

This is literally only available on one manufacturer right now. I think it's the kind of thing that should be looked at and it will be. I don't see other companies being too far behind. Why could Fox and Santa Cruz partner up for example. They're right next to each other essentially and could co-develop.

I am curious if you could tap a rigid post to work with their mounting system though. Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard.

Or ride a back up bike...
  • 20 2
 Phuck Rockshox and SRAM! In the "mad rush" toward 27.5, Sr. Suntour never stopped making a 180mm single crown!!

And never mind all those X-Fusion Vengeance HLR's out there.

Clearly some people zigged when they shoud've have zagged.
  • 18 0
 Being 6ft5, I warmly welcome longer travel dropper seatposts.
  • 4 0
 Indeed, my fellow lankyonian. I could happily run a 200mm drop seatpost on my massive XL Mondraker Foxy.
  • 8 0
 Yep, 5 inches doesn't satisfy me.
  • 3 0
 @iian: I'm only 6'1", and rather ape like in build (32" inseam, but longer torso/arms). And even with those relatively stubby legs, I would appreciate more than the 150mm of drop I currently have. At your height, current droppers must seem like a cruel joke.
  • 12 0
 E Bikes attract just as much disdain in The UK, most people are pretty snobby about them. The only good thing I see is that it helps really out of shape people actually get outside and do some exercise. Ive seen a few quite overweight people riding them and they certainly wouldn't be riding otherwise. So that can't be a bad thing.
  • 5 0
 Just to be controversial, I love 'em. But I wouldn't have one as my only bike. I've not got one, but I really wish I did 12 months ago. Had a pretty horrendous injury which required 2 operations and a knee rebuild on one leg and also spinal surgery and it would have been so amazing to have got back on a bike earlier. Also, when you do eventually get back on a bike after that long off it absolutely sucks to be so unfit compared to your riding buddies who just keep disappearing off into the distance.
  • 4 0
 Last week i almost got hit by 2 women riding them downhill while i was going up. They couldn't stop in a controlled manner and almost plowed me over. Their husbands were obviously the avid bikers and i know they were trying to keep up with them. I just worry the peope using them don't respect the power they've been given
  • 2 0
 ebikes are the rage for commuting. That's where I see most of MTB ebikes, not on trails.
  • 1 0
 @Mac-Aravan: E MTB are great for urban assault riding. having fun on your way to work and home.
  • 16 4
 All this makes me glad that I still ride a 26er with 2x9 and 140 travel front and rear, even rocking the straight steerer tube!
  • 9 4
 everything is fine minus the 2x9.. seriously 1by, get on that.
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: I like the choice it gives, also I'm a student and groupsets aren't cheap!
  • 3 0
 @kraken2345: just saying, there is 2 things that have changed my world and allowed me to ride substantially harder, Dropper post and truly functional clutch / NW drivetrains.
  • 1 0
 I'll one up you with a 3x8 drivetrain, 140mm travel and straight steer tube
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: I've been looking at dropper posts but they're so damn expensive and it's another thing that needs maintenance
  • 1 0
 @kraken2345: I will agree on the expensive side of things, its totally ridiculous, but for maintenance, I rode my fox DOSS for a good 3 years through all the seasons, and it still works just as good as new.
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog: Just get a Pinion gearbox, then you can have a 1x1 setup and still have more range!
  • 1 0
 @Peregrinebikes: If the brand I like ever makes a Pinion equiped model, I buy!
  • 1 0
 @Mountain-Dalek: Sounds good buddy.
  • 8 0
 I'm glad everything is evolving in the mtb world. A few years ago I wanted to see more long travel 29ers and then poof! Here they are! Along with awesome geometry, suspension and carbon for days all across the board.
  • 9 0
 Expect the tire size to increase....gearing to increase...and your wallet to decrease.
  • 7 1
 Good roundup.

I agree with you on e-bikes. Here in Marin County, mountain bikes have been banned from all but one good trail (on private land). I am quite certain that within a decade the introduction of e-bikes and the resulting influx of less skilled/trained/polite riders will lead to the banning of mountain bikes on all trails except fire roads (and perhaps even fire roads). E-bikes will be the kiss of death for areas with "tenuous" trail access, and add nothing to the experience except or the lazy and fat.
  • 2 1
 True. However, I suggest not living in Marin county... go somewhere bikes are welcome! That's not to say I don't applaud you guys for keeping the fight strong in places like Sierra Club-brainwashed NorCal
  • 1 0
 ask yourself why normal MTB's were banned from all but one trail?? was it because people were going flat out riding like idiots ? was it because they were building in areas of conservation? Was it because of litter etc? Ultimately it sounds like whether ebikes were used or not those trails are on the decline / close to closure.
Ultimately trying to categorize the riders as less skilled / less polite is also a bit impolite from your side if you get me. Many guys I know who have them are the most polite people you can meet who use them for a set window of riding each week instead of shuttles. Many of these guys are also older and therefore more respectful to people they meet, they have been riding years but just fancy getting more fun in, whats wrong with that???? Ultimately I meet good and bad people in every walk of like , MTBers included unfortunately
  • 1 0
 i said the same thing about downhill bikes in the early 2000's. boy was i right!
  • 2 0
 sarcasm aside. this is one of the most closed minded comments ive seen on PB.
first, you didnt get banned from trails because of e-bikes, so thats on your biking community. dont scapegoat someone else, just help fix the problem.
second, the funny thing about less skilled people/trained bikers is, they get better with practice and time! an e-bike isn't training wheels, it's still a bike and they will go from a noob to a intermediate rider in a year or so.
stop being an elitist and show an e-biker proper trail etiquette, and techniques.
  • 11 2
 Where is the return of 26" - enough of this sick joke, bike industry?
  • 4 0
 I'm guessing 7-8 years should be about the right time for 26 to come back... Although, Trek is marketing the 26in Fuel EX Jr as a bigger wheel for the kids..
  • 3 0
 26"+ is one of the new fads haha.
  • 1 0
 We are still rocking 26"
  • 1 0
 26" full suspension, dc fork. Thats It.
  • 1 0
 @DerkGort: You got that right.
  • 6 0
 Just imagine for a moment,all that time and money put on e-bikes,spent on making real mountain bikes better and less expensive.
  • 4 0
 People want to see DH bikes make a comeback. Won't happen unless MTB man stops charging over $10 000 for a 33lb TOP KIT one or $4-6000 for a frame only. If not the longer travel Broduro bike trend will continue.
As of 2016 you can still get a TOP KIT Broduro bike around $7000. However I see the top kit 2017 ones are up in the 8's now. By 2018 the top kit ones will all be over $10 000 and people will stop buying those too just like DH bikes.
Then some bright guy will say they didn't sell because no one wanted them.
There's a ceiling around $7000ish for top kit MTB. Once over that you really have to consider what else you can do with you're recreational money.
  • 3 1
 I dont see DH bikes being crazy popular again without a lot more support from bike parks. If you're only going a couple times a year then pick up the broduro bike which you can also pedal around. I dont see entry price being a major issue for DH. Sure, there's your twelve grand session 9.9's and v10s out there , not to mention an M16C frame is 4000 bucks at LBS cost. However, for every one of those there's four ex rental glorys and aurums with 27.5 wheels, good enough kit and modern geometry. They even get a fresh finishing kit and often carry the frame warranty over.
  • 1 0
 Nah, remember nearly 10 years ago when super high end race bikes were the popular dentists ride? The scott spark and genius were like $10k (that's like $50k CAD Wink ) Prices will come down; you can get a nice, carbon, XT equipped bike for a good price these days, and we have so many options. Yes, we have to pay for those options. For anyone who doesn't like that, PLEASE MESSAGE ME! I have tons of old 9 speed stuff to sell you. I've also got some old frames for ya!
  • 4 2
 The future of DH bikes is being rental machines at bike parks. Enduro needs to chill down a bit, just like this ridiculous 120 hype needs to cool down. Then people will go "actually... DH bikes are very durable and provide plenty of error margin, how about I ride one since I take lift anyways". But we're still in denial of "I cannot utilize a DH bike, 120mm of travel is all I need" - then puts 160 Pike and Minions on it, gets tossed around the bike park shouting "I'm okaaaay!"
  • 2 1
 You're way off track.

The reason DH bikes are going away is because they don't offer enough advantage above what a 6 inch travel bike can do to justify dropping 3 grand on an entry level dh bike and only be able to shuttle with it. And yes I said 3 grand. Your 4-$6000 frames? You're basically accusing the industry of not making the Honda civics and only the Ferrari's when that's clearly not true. Kona and giant make very capable cheap dh bikes. Along with many others. YT's cheap dh bike frame geo is under one of the most winning riders in the world right now.

Back to my point. In a world where owning one nice bike is a privilege and owning two nice bikes is a rarity, thats where you'll see people reach for the bike that can be used daily as well as in the park.
  • 2 0
 @joalst: DH bikes are tougher, because they do not need to compromise for weight, that's it. So no, they will not be dead as long as bike parks are around.
  • 1 0
 I remember the highest spec session being introduced for €4000 in 2009.
Just about buys you the lowest end version now...
  • 1 0
 @hubertje-ryu: i remember full suspension Canny Scalpel for 9k back in 2003
  • 5 1
 What if a rock climber used a small electric motor to "assist" their ascent? Would that still be rock climbing? I think you have no choice but to answer no to that. e-bikes are not mountain bikes (yes i have ridden one) but our society is based on making money from making things easier so mankind will continue to circle the drain...
  • 1 0
 I can agree on your answer but I can't agree on your analogy. For many mountainbiking is not just about the climb. It might be better to compare mtb to hiking. If hikers use a gondola on part of their hike, does that still make them hikers? I'd say yes. If you say no then we have an equivalent disagreement. Which is fine. It doesn't quite matter what everything is called after all.
  • 2 0
 @vinay: Hi vinay...Equivalent disagreement Smile I like that description and may use that going forward. I meant to limit the assist analogy to the activity. By taking a car (gondola) to the trail to hike you are still a hiker, but if you use an exoskeleton for the hike then you are not.
  • 1 0
 @FarmeR57: I'm not really into the exoskeleton thing but it seems like a bit of a crutch. In that sense it is analogous to a long (or extended dropper) seatpost for seated pedaling (as in not being able or not willing to carry your own full bodyweight). the pedal assist only works at a speed lower than 25km/h. Exceed that and you are on your own. Maybe more analogous to having a sherpa on a hike. Help you with your stuff until you hit the properly challenging stuff.

I'm no native English speaker (I'm from The Netherlands) but I'm glad to contribute something to language (unless you're from the French speaking region of course). I'll keep an eye on the new dictionaries Smile .
  • 4 1
 I rode an iron horse 7point7 for a few years. That thing got beat to hell, never got serviced, stored outside. Sure, it weighed 40 pounds and even with the double up front it was still a suffer fest up the climbs.

But I guarantee any of these "new, burly longer travel rigs" would wince at the thought of getting thrashed about.

Does anybody on pinkbike remember when everybody had to have a Transition bottle rocket? Lightweight slopestyle builds to 180 forked free ride machines...those bikes could tell some stories.
  • 5 2
 You guarantee it? I have two 2012 slayers which are both heavily ridden and neglected in terms of maintenance.... Both have thousands of miles + numerous crashes on them and are perfectly fine. I guarantee Rocky didn't go backwards in terms of reliability with their new slayer......
  • 1 0
 @shredjekyll: is your 2012 slayer carbon? I rest my case. I bet you all these new, longer travel, "burlier" machines would be piles of useless plastic if they took a tumble down the mountainside. I'd rather have dents than cracks. BTW I have a slayer 70 as well, 2013 or 14...nice ride but the 3:1 shock ratio is a bit high for a "freeride" rig
  • 1 0
 @shredjekyll: actually I'm starting to think you didn't read the article
  • 2 1
 @SeaJay: Yes the original Land Rover Defender is a hell of a lot more reliable than Porsche Panamera. Guess which one I'd prefer to take to Laguna Seca? Oh yes defender can cross the Amazon, which might be the adventure of my life... I opt for Laguna Seca... the point being: kids they want to have fun - if it's broke, they'll buy another one. Let's leave consumption ethics, please. Modern bikes are not disposable by any means, by average they are tougher than pre 2010 bikes. 2005 Spec Enduro vs 2016 Enduro, 2001 Kona Stinky vs 2016 Process, Trek Remedy 2008 vs Remedy 2016, Boxxer 2007 vs Boxxer 2016. Oh yes there were those legendary Marzocchis... with no low speed compression damping what so fkng ever and rebound worth sht.
  • 3 0
 A lot great new product being shown off since Sea Otter and we still can't get most of it. 6 months out, backordered for ever or not until spring next year. FFS. Distribution is killing the sales of bike products here in Canada. Direct to LBS or direct to the end user without ridiculous brokerage fees is needed immediately. If not it's time to sell it all and move on to something where I can actually get what is being shown. And no I don't want you're full build bike with parts you think I may want MTB man.
  • 2 0
 Distribution/distributor issues, I'd love a whole series on that. Either it's two years old or out of stock. I can't tell you how many suppliers have said, "we decided not to bring that into Canada....", so you try some overseas online site and end up with a cheap knockoff.
  • 3 0
 "That being said, these massive exhibitions of all things cycling do provide a good opportunity to view the new products that are coming down the pipeline, and to get an idea of what the near future holds for the sport."

Well, is new gear realy so strongly connected with the future of the sport ? For athletes for sure, but most of us ? Sure, bikes are more convenient, let you ride much faster but is it more fun than 10 years ago ? The real invention would be to pause wife and children for a day ;-) Ride more, buy less.
  • 3 0
 When I rode my first mountain bike back in the 90s, if someone said that one day I'd be riding a 28-pound carbon fiber mountain bike with 160mm travel front and rear, a dropper post, and a 1x12 drivetrain and that it can actually be pedaled up a hill, I'd have laughed. I stop and think about that before I bitch and moan too much about the bike industry.
  • 3 0
 Sometimes with tyre choices I think maybe there are too many, but then I look at all the tyre and wheel options for cars and wonder if people have wheel size debates on the equivalent car website..
  • 6 0
 That and every single part on your car fits ONLY your model of car (obviously maybe a few others of the same make depending on the part) .....that's an expensive hobby to be in, when I spent more time in my jeep than on my bike I was mostly broke.
  • 1 0
 @DARKSTAR63: Correct. Standardization arguments are ridiculous. This isn't jogging, Lots of innovation goes into mountain bike design from many different directions. Stuff is gonna change. If you don't like, start running after work, or start racing motobikes. You can be bored, or really see what an expensive 2 wheel hobby is like.
  • 4 2
 Been running a 165mm rear travel and 170mm front (RS Lyrik) on my 2008 Scott Ransom since 2011. Now I am not only at the leading edge for NEW long travel ideas, but I have been redisgnated from Free ride to Enduro.

This industry can truly market the REPOLISHED SHINY thing for the naive and CREDIT CARD IDIOTS.
  • 2 0
 What I'm not sure I understand about this article is that Interbike really isn't the venue that new product gets introduced. Sure a few manufacturers from the US will debut some new product but generally the new stuff comes out all year. New introductions happen more at Eurobike and even Sea Otter than Interbike. Interbike is just an industry get together.
  • 1 0
 They're all industry get-togethers at this point. They exist as places to take vacation with your wife after the show's over.
  • 2 0
 20mm Front Axles will come back on trail bikes soon....As Mike Ferrentino noted in the current issue of Bike, when the 15 vs 20 battle went on, there were no 160mm 29ers. Now with Boost 110 and plus tires, it's only a matter of time. Should've just kept the 20mm and call it done.
  • 1 0
 He also said it was a Fox vs Rockshox thing. I think it was more of a tool-less thing that won out.
  • 2 0
 "This is the elephant in the room, especially in North America. In Europe, the idea of pedaling around in the woods with a electric motor and a battery attached to your bike doesn't seem to be raising too many eyebrows"
Really? Then why does everybody and their brother(Trek, Scott, La Pierre just to name a few) sell e-mountain-bikes in Europe,
but only Specialized sells one here? I think you have that backwards
  • 1 0
 Well I don´t know if you the reply was to me but I think so. I agree, for some people the ebike is the elephant, not for me. In mine mind the lack of gearbox is an elephant that nobady has even noticed yet Wink
  • 2 0
 People like me still riding on 26. Been on it for over a decade. Your telling me these bike manufacturers finally figured out a better geometry, better everything? Just wait a year, you'll hear same shit. The bike you bought now is already shit from their view. who's the fool?
  • 7 6
 I sure don't hope the industry goes for a 170-200mm dropper option on all their bikes, just like we all had the 27.5" stuffed down our throats. For 2017 we need leg extenders or spd cleats with 50mm rise. Electric cleats that is.
  • 5 0
 Been running a 2.7 minion for years does this make me a hipster?
  • 2 0
 Naw.. those are only actually 2.5 even on a wide rim. Supposedly Maxxis will be coming out with a proper 26 x 2.8 soon.
  • 1 0
 @Kyle201: It's true.
  • 1 0
 @Maxxis: That's awesome! I wonder if there will be a 2-ply version or perhaps DD model? It seems most modern plus tires are compromised by thin, flimsy and easy to puncture side walls/casing trying to keep the weight down. Thicker casing can help to slow the rebound as well, reducing some of the inherent bounciness of a large volume tire.
  • 1 0
 @Kyle201: yep measured at just over 2.5 on a 521 - strange its not like people to over estimate inches eh
  • 3 0
 I like where these longer travel plus bikes are going! Now let's see the coil fork and rear shock factory options come back... air is ok but coil feels so much nicer!
  • 4 1
 At what point do we as mountain bikers need to embrace the truth that we don't need more travel, we just need to collectively learn to ride our bikes better? Discuss.
  • 1 0
 For me the e-bikes are not the elephant in the room. The elephant is the fact that we´re still using deraliuers!! Give us gearbox SRAM and Shimano!
And to those that say that gearbox are not efficiant, if SRAM and Shimano would put in the same amount of resources as on crap like 50 teeth cogs in the rear (and deraliuers) we would have a very efficiant gearbox by now!
  • 1 0
 "All the hemming and hawing about rim widths and tire size only goes to show just how much room there is for experimentation and innovation in the mountain bike world"

Tire sizes & rim widths = innovation like a fart = a hurricane. :/
  • 5 0
 Where's the new Saint?
  • 1 0
 Yeah, cuz the BR-M820 are not so awesome... for the price...
  • 4 0
 Both Rockshox AND SRAM! Wow, that seems like a lot.
  • 2 0
 I find it hilarious we're making special frames just to fit 2.6 and 2.8" tires.... This was the normal tire size back in the early 2000's for most Dh and Freeride bikes.
  • 1 0
 Right, ive seen so many bullet points on new bikes that fit 2.35 tire...well dah, it better
  • 1 0
 I really have no interest in a small incremental improvements that costs massive cash for minimal improvement in rider joy. Current bike industry progression today leaves me blah.
  • 1 0
 None of this stuff is game changing and so none of it excites me. What DOES excite me? Two words: Zerode Taniwha. With the Christchurch Adventure park opening this is the bike I'm seriously considering.
  • 1 0
 "All the same, given how much money and marketing dollars major bike companies are devoting towards developing and producing e-bikes..." I felt that I had to mention them since some of that money will come to Pinkbike.
  • 1 0
 VOODOO bikes are back! They have totally redesigned the line but are keeping true to the roots. Steel offerings, 27.5+, squish, road bikes... I can't wait! Look for 'em this year at the big interbike.
  • 5 3
 personally, 125 mm of drop on my saddle post is enough, more than that and my knees hurt from an old injury

#itsnottrials
  • 12 1
 Good thing everybody's not you
  • 5 0
 I've got a 170mm one on 2 different bikes and good knees, I thought it was brilliant and made a massive change, but after reading that now I realise i was totally wrong.
  • 1 0
 @pbuser2299: It's not trials, but trials illustrates a point, that the further the seat is out of the way (or at the far end of the scale is non-existent) the more bike control you have, and wouldn't you want the maximum amount of control you can get out of a bike while descending? especially if your trail has big features. Which a lot of mine do.
  • 2 0
 I think the bike industry has lost their way for the most part & it is very unlikely I will ever buy a new bike again.
  • 1 1
 I, on the other hand, think almost every new bike is pretty awesome. What WOULD make you buy a new bike? Is it a lack of certain features (ie 26" wheels) or price that scares you off?
  • 1 0
 @hllclmbr: The new standards every year nonsense & the forced death of 26'ers are the biggest issue I have.
Change is fine if there is a legitimate reason but most of the recent changes are just gimmicks to drive the market.

I have a sick 2014 Transition Carbon Covert that I hope will last a while.
  • 1 0
 @Darknut: Come over to the 26" side with us Darknut. Get a Pinion gearbox to go with it. Which model do you want 203mm travel or 165mm travel?
  • 1 0
 you really can't go wrong with any e*thirteen product. Glad to see they finally came out with a dropper post. as for the RM Slayer, that is one sexy bike!!!
  • 1 0
 I wouldn't be surprised if we see a 29" DH bike at some point being raced in the world cups. I can see the potential on tracks like fort bill.
  • 2 0
 "forget about the future and get out for a ride" Why Thank You Mike, I think I will!
  • 2 0
 Give us the black Kashima already, what could be taking so freaking long, GRRRRR!
  • 1 0
 Dropper post break.they all do. Fat tires weigh much more. Heavier wheels no thanks. 12 speed cassets . joke. More travel i like. Carry on...........
  • 2 0
 Eightpin dropper going to be available any time soon?
  • 4 0
 The Eightpin dropper requires a thru-hole/axle in the seat tube, so likely it will only be offered as an OEM option as frame designers will have to integrate the design accordingly.
  • 1 0
 When they done with suspension travel, they will start with dropper travel.
  • 12 14
 Here's my thoughts.

- DH bikes are dead, instead get a long travel enduro and cover your trail riding and dh riding needs all at once. Hell bikes are so damn expensive now days, the hay days of having a fleet are slowly dwindling down.

- drivetrains are at there peak. whether its 10speed, 11speed, or 12 speed, as long as its clutch with a narrow wide up front you've essentially got what you need. 11-42 spread gives you sufficient range, if your needing much wider, then please explain to me what kind of rides your going on. Either pony up on the climbs or learn to shuttle. Prick!

- plus size rims and tires are for recreational riders, put it on a carbon highball, you have yourself the dentist / lawyer special. The wider you go the weaker the wheel, the thinner the rubber. Enduro and dh will never go + size.
  • 6 0
 While DH racing remains a million times more entertaining to watch than Enduro, I don't see DH bikes going anywhere. Where's Santa Cruz's famous Enduro team? Do they even have anyone racing Enduro? I've no idea....

Sure DH bikes sales remain low and I don't see that changing any time soon but the sport 'needs' something exciting to make it marketable. Rampage, Slopestyle, DH etc get people excited about cycling even if they ultimately buy a more suitable bike for their needs. I don't think anyone has ever got pumped on bumbags, goggles with XC lids and water bottles Wink
  • 4 0
 @wallheater: more like enduro is slowly turning into the new dh and lots of dh riders are opting for the ews circuit with more events. the bigger the bikes the bigger the features. sooner or later it will be the same thing.
  • 2 0
 I can't see DH bikes dying any time soon.

You get the people who like the idea of DH but don't fully commit and after a few years of feeling inferior to their DH shredding mates turn to a shorter travel bike and low and behold it works well (they never really rode DH anyway, lets be honest) and they can ride the same trails as they always did on their DH bike. It's not that the shorter travel bike is any better just better suited to their speed and riding style!

DH and freeride FTW

Long live 26 inch wheels and dual crown forks!
  • 4 0
 >11-42 spread gives you sufficient range, if your needing much wider, then please explain to me what kind of rides your going on

Rides in the mountains.
  • 3 0
 I've got both a modern DH bike as well as a modern "Enduro" bike. DH bikes aren't dead, sure I can ride the same trails, but no matter how hard I charge my Enduro bike into stuff, it just is not the same as ridding a DH bike.
  • 1 0
 @WolfStoneD: We have yet to get our hands on a bike like the Slayer and the next evolution of "enduro bikes".. just saying, that thing has got some legit DH geometry going on.
  • 1 0
 @BoneDog:

I've got a 2015 Reign Advanced.

The geo numbers between that and the slayer are very very similar. Slayer has a seat tube laid back 1 degree more and slightly less reach. But has 20mm more travel.

Which is still 20mm less than my Glory and not as slack.

Plus I'm more of a ride by feel guy and not ride by numbers. Blasting info gnar is more forgiving on the Glory.
  • 2 2
 just saying, dh frames and enduro frames are so close, and with the advancements in suspension as well as additional shock mounting and wheel position adjustment, its just a short matter of time until you buy a bike and you choose it with the dh spec or the enduro spec. Share the same frame.

I think this primarily because companies sometimes even loose money manufacturing dh framesets and many even pull out completely. As a result, it would only be practical for a manufacturer to produce one frame to share both disciplines if technology enables it to be optimized in both areas. It's not much different than how many companies are making these 29 / 275+ bikes which are optimized for both application.

Put some additional shock mountain locations on the slayer, offer a model in full enduro air sprung suspension, offer the other in its slackened position with a coil over and extra travel. Not impractical by any means.
  • 4 1
 Where is the new Nomad?
  • 1 0
 E29 is 165 at the rear if I'm not mistaken. 29er Lyric goes up to 180 now....
  • 1 0
 Wow lyric to 180 now, thats sik..missed that story
  • 2 0
 What no black Kashima coating?
  • 1 0
 Riding 2.7 tires in 2012 was making me "old school", should have kept them, would be in again
  • 1 0
 > There are more dropper post options than ever

Apparently not for my 34.9 seatpost. Still stuck with Reverb.
  • 2 0
 Rocky Mountain Slayer looks good. Pretty impressed.
  • 1 0
 All these new droppers and all I want is for the ones that come out of the box now to work.
  • 1 0
 Hahaha, that is true.
  • 2 0
 Can't wait to go to the interbike and check out the long travel 29ers .
  • 1 0
 And lots and lots of pajama mtb looking gear....again, and again. Year after year
  • 2 0
 I'm still waiting for dh bikes with 300mm dirt bike like travel.
  • 1 0
 Stack is coming back. And more coverage options for helmets between half shell and full face.
  • 3 2
 Bring back the Totem Rockshox!!!!!!
  • 1 0
 Rode a coil one for a few years. Great burly fork. Couldn't see any reason to get a triple until a couple years back.
  • 1 0
 WHERE ARE THE GEARBOXES??!
  • 1 0
 Cough Zerode cough cough
  • 1 0
 Sold out. Pinkbike gearbox lovers bought them all.
  • 1 0
 They are right here under your nose.
  • 1 0
 Bound & gagged in the basements of $hitmano & $CAM until they either escape or can be as brainwashed to not tell the truth as PB is bribed not to.
  • 1 0
 EBikes don't overpopulate trails, Trailforks does!
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