Unno's Showstopping Carbon DH Bike: First Ride - Crankworx Whistler 2017

Aug 15, 2017
by Mike Kazimer  


Whistler is positively brimming with exotic bikes this week, and all it takes is a quick lap around the village to spot everything from Enduro World Series race bikes to one-of-a-kind slopestyle weapons, and everything in between. Even with all that eye candy in close proximity, rolling into the lift line aboard Unno's upcoming downhill bike is a sure way to turn heads.
Unno Ever Details• 27.5" wheels
• 200mm travel
• 63.5° head angle
• 445mm chainstays
• 455mm reach
• MSRP: €5500 (frame only)
www.unno.com

Cesar Rojo's carbon creation is simply stunning in person, the type of bike that almost looks too good to ride. Almost, but not quite, which is why I jumped at the opportunity to take a few laps in the bike park, curious to find out if bike's performance could match its looks.

We first covered the story behind Unno a little over a year ago, when the company began to lift the curtain on the projects they were working on. Born from the creative mind of Cesar Rojo, the brand's goal is to create the best bikes in the world, with no expenses spared. These days, the vast majority of carbon frames are built in Asia, but Unno decided to keep things in-house, setting up a carbon manufacturing facility in Barcelona, Spain. There's a full line of mountain bikes in the works, everything from an XC hardtail all the way to the Ever (short for Everest) downhill bike shown here.
Cesar Rojo
Cesar Rojo, the man behind Unno Bikes.

According to Cesar, they'd hoped to have production bikes already out in the world by now, but a combination of factors pushed that timeline back a little further than originally expected. Little things, like finding the right vendor to produce the cardboard boxes the frames will come in, to deciding who would produce the frame's decals ended up being more time consuming than anticipated. The wait is almost over, though, and the first trail and enduro frames should be available this October, with the downhill bike to follow, likely near the beginning of 2018. What does a handmade, small batch carbon fiber mountain bike cost? It's certainly not cheap – an Ever frame will retail for €5500.


Unno DH
Unno DH
The Unno's integrated bar / stem combo only adds to the bike's futuristic look.


Design

The Ever's distinctive frame shape wasn't done purely for looks – the goal was to build in a slight amount of lateral compliance in order to keep the bike from feeling overly stiff. The woven carbon fabric isn't just for show either; Cesar explained that the decision to incorporate the fabric was done to increase the frame's durability. “The fabric is mainly for strength and impact issues. UD (unidirectional) is aligned fibers, so when you get an impact it's very easy for them to separate. I don't get why the bicycle industry doesn't use woven fabric on the outside – you won't see a Formula One car without fabric on the outside, because it's just much better for impact resistance and safety,” says Cesar.

Unno DH
The shock is routed through the split seat tube, and rotates on bearings housed in the swingarm.

The Ever uses a dual link design for its 200mm of travel that's been oriented to create a more progressive curve towards the sag point, and then the progression becomes more linear as the shock continues through its travel.

As far as geometry goes, the Ever has a 63-degree head angle, 445mm chainstays, and a reach of 455 millimeters. Once production is underway for this size, the next size available will have a 495mm reach, but that's still a little ways down the road. Cesar doesn't believe that one size will work for everyone, but due to the company's small size they decided to start with a bike that will fit the widest range of riders.

Unno DH

Ride Impressions

At this time of the year, the trails in the Whistler Bike Park are rougher than ever, and despite the best efforts of the hard working trail crew, blown out berms and knee-high braking bumps abound. It might be a little harder on bikes and bodies, but that doesn't mean it's any less fun to ride; if anything, it's even better suited for testing out a bike like the Unno Ever.

Cesar is a little lighter than me, but not by much, so I was able to ride the bike without adjusting his suspension settings. The Float X2 shock was set up with 40% sag and no volume spacers, and the BoXXer fork was set to be on the firmer side of things – Cesar prefers to run a stiffer fork in order to preserve the bike's geometry as much as possible in steeper terrain. It's worth mentioning that the bike I was on had a slightly shorter reach than what the production model will have, but the head angle and the chainstay length were still the same. For that reason, my focus was more on how the suspension design performed and less on the exact fit of the bike. With a quick pre-flight checkup completed, it was time to head downhill.

There are plenty of downhill bikes out there with 200mm of travel, but there aren't many of them that can deliver that travel as smoothly as the Unno Ever. Those giant braking bumps seemed to disappear underneath the wheels, and I found myself letting off the brakes for longer than usual simply because of how composed the bike felt. There's a calmness to the way the back wheel dispatches with obstacles, and no matter how big the rock or root the bike was unfazed. Balance is the key when it comes to a downhill bike, and I'd say that's what impressed me most with how the Ever's suspension felt. Not too plush, and not too firm, it had that 'just right' feeling that's the ultimate goal for any bike, with plenty of grip to keep the wheels on the ground in the loose, slippery corners, and enough support to keep it from wallowing when a few extra pedal strokes were needed, or for popping off the lip of a jump.


Unno DH
The cables are routed through the top of the downtube to make it easier to mount a number plate to the front of the fork.
Unno DH
Plans are in the works to give the bike an aero carbon seat post, to match the look of the seat mast.


The coil vs. air shock debate is still in progress, but on the Ever the air-sprung Float X2 felt perfectly suited to the bike, with a level of sensitivity that's not always present on bikes equipped with air shocks. And that's without resorting to any special tunes or shock modification; in fact, the X2 on the bike I was aboard is two years old.

The Ever is the type of bike that seems to work its way into your subconscious, convincing you to go even faster, or to send it even farther. The laps I got in on the Ever felt like a tease, like only being able to take one lick of an ice cream cone on a hot summer day, but it was still worth it – this is one remarkable machine. Even though I'll never be able to afford one, I like that fact that companies like Unno exist, producing bikes on their own terms, free to experiment and create exactly what they want.






203 Comments

  • + 306
 I didn't know this site posted pornographic material.
  • + 42
 That awkward moment when you have an erection at your laptop, but can't walk off because if someone asks what you were looking at. . . . .
  • + 90
 Waking up to the sight of BBC ... ... ... Beautiful Black Carbon ... Will let myself out
  • + 4
 Ok, I'll say it, and I have no doubt that negative props will come flooding.... but I don't get it. Sure, it's certainly not an ugly bike, but it's not the best looking bike I've seen. Having said that I'm definitely in the 'function over form' camp, so if it is the best ride ever then that trumps everything else.
  • + 27
 3 way with a Unno and Antidote. [lubes hand]
  • + 2
 @Spark24: It's grand, have a beer on me
  • + 4
 Amen! This is one sexy ride, pure simplicity.
  • + 5
 If you are into hearing people around you talking about your bike, coming up to you, complementing you, asking stuff allowing you to show them how smart you are, buy Antidote or Unno. I even got a random girl on the street stop and start asking me questions about my Carbon Jack. She was not bad looking and I have a witness for it.
  • + 3
 @AntN: Rock'N'Roll Gold chain lube.... right.....right???
  • + 14
 Pinkbike to be renamed pornbike
  • + 4
 simply loveleh!!!!!
  • + 3
 So you like beards...
  • + 34
 @WAKIdesigns:... That awkward moment when she wants to ride your bike and not you Wink
  • + 4
 www.pinkbike.com/photo/15057193 here's a photo of her all laid out
  • + 2
 @bigtim: Do you follow them on Instagram? If not, it's well worth the history lesson to see the stunning progress they've made over time in visual form with excellent explanations by Cesar.

Keep in mind, he was behind much of the design concepts of the original Mondrakers which eventually proved themselves on track. Very shrewd and focused guy and FORMER WORLD CUP DH RACER.
  • + 10
 All other bike companies take note, make a black bike with carbon weave and people will loose their shit.
  • + 2
 Needs painting to highlight the sculpting
  • + 3
 @McNubbin: Hit the nail on the head. The front end is basically a Demo, but if this were an article about a Demo, responses would range from "Meh" to the usual hate for Specialized.
  • + 3
 @TheR: couldn't agree more, but this is and article about UNNO DH bike not about the Demo, which for some reason is considered as devil's spawn designed to destroy lives of World Champions and corrode the very core of mountain bike values. Lately I come to realize that if one was to determine what mountain biking is about, basing on Pinkbike comment board it would not be: ride to the top talking with your friends and race them on the way down, all on 26" bikes... no... it would be more or less: whining at every new piece of bike tech... yes please keep on. I wonder... if you walk along the pavement and a Ferrari stops by, a guy walks out... do you run to him shouting: I BET YOU CANT DRIVE YOU FKNG RICH WANKER!!! or... MCLAREN FOR LIFE!!! MAZDA MX5 IS CHEAPER AND ALREADY FASTER THAN WHAT I NEED!!!
  • + 4
 @WAKIdesigns: Not entirely sure of what to make of what you wrote here, but I wasn't whining. Just kind of puzzled why this bike would receive the praise of the choirs of angels for how it looks, when a very similar-looking bike (which has been out for more than a few years now) from a big company would receive a lukewarm or hostile response. Maybe some faint praise here and there.

For the record, I dig this bike and the Demo for that matter.
  • + 4
 @TheR: sorry it wasn't directed at you. Rather general attitude. Demo is a fkng amazing bike, one that really stands out - off course not as good as the bike owned by [insertpinkbikeusername]. But nothing can compete with that, unless it is a long, slack, super light bike with 26" wheels, 135 rear end spacing, high enough bottom bracket, no bottle mount and costing no more than 1599$, preferably kitted with Hope, Deity or some other vegan stuff. UNNO rolls on added emotional value, which means a lot, especially in the world where most bikes look like session.
  • + 3
 @bizutch: I find the idea of history and instagram in the same sentence really funny how long have you been riding?
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: I understand that the general attitude isn't great. However people angry about the death of 26 have a good leg to stand on. As well as those who are angry about the price of a bike have you worked in a bike shop or better yet a bike shop in a poor town in the last ten fifteen years? My retail 900$ bike from 05 had much better parts than my co worker who bought an 850 retail price bike last year I tried to help him find the best deal and they were all the same he spent 400 or so on a new fork got new brakes for 200 new cranks because nowadays at that price they mostly have square tapered wtf. And looking through my old magizines full suspension are the same I've looked at all kinds of bikes and the parts on a 2400$ Now verses then is a joke. But if you never look at the entry levels than you cant really say anything. Bikes have become much more expensive with little gain.
  • + 2
 @loganflores: no bikes have not got much more expensive and gains are not small. I ride since 2000 and up till around 2012 was successively improving from rigid Diamond Back traverse with cantilevers and Altus to 11.3kg Blur TRc with carbon rims and XTR. I remember well anough what were the prices of stuff and how anything under XT was pretty much crap, how anything other than Marzocchi was worthless, which by today standards is worthless too since Marzo had no low speed compression and came with springs that were good maybe for 65kg lad. It's just lunacy to claim otherwise. Current Deore doesn't cost more than old Deore and tops 2010 XT. Have you looked at brakes? That's a fuk-hing joke right there. I had HFX-9 and Juicy mate... and paid more for each than I pay for XT today. We all know how they worked. More expensive?! Really?! Bikes before online shopes were cheaper right? I bought Manitou Black for 600$, Psylo which was utter shit, was my dream fork back then and it costed 1000$ in top dual air version. Marzocchi Monster costed 2000$ or os. Do I need to say more?!

The top bikes got more expensive, but it is also worth mentioning that level of tech got up among companies. I still have a bike catalogue with Cannondale Scalpel at 10 000$ and Gemini DH Replica at 7000$. I bought my first real MTB in 2008. Santa Cruz Nomad. It was among 2, max 3 other bikes, the only rideable thing in this class. Canyon from that era was utter sht. These days it can compete with the best.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: there is a lot to unpack there I talk about bike to bike and the poorer side of things and people just starting and you talk about parts/upgrades that someone who has been at it a while would buy yes parts and bikes have come a long way brakes and suspension especially I remember how much better my dads xtr rim brakes where versus my deore rim brakes back in 98. If your building a bike than its much better buying components parts are cheaper than ever and better but buying a lower end bike has gotten worse and that's bad for the industry. I've been at it a while too I learned trials on a 90 Bridgestone b4 17 in. The bike I got In 2005 had a manitou skarab elite thing was insanely light air adjust compression rebound it had bb5s or bb7s Mavic wheels SRAM 9 or seven can't remember my coworker got a bottom barrel fork with no adjustments,8 speed low end SRAM,shit wheels,square taper, bb and crap brakes he had to upgrade almost everything and almost all bikes in that price were the same.
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns: also i have a 96 or so xt that works perfectly still after thousands upon thousands of miles. How long does a derailure last nowdays?
  • + 1
 @loganflores: Amen brother
  • + 1
 Checkout the UNNO Instagram page XXX rated pics!
  • + 1
 @loganflores: pfff, it's operated by cable, you should perhaps try a Di2 derailleur before you bring up some old stuff up. Not to mention that you can't use that XT on 11 speed drive train that allows for massive rear cogs yet allows smooth gear transitions. Honestly man I am just trolling you.

Now for real though, how long a modern derailleur survives? That's a rather naive question: as long as no rock hits it? I had 2001 XT and it took 10 years to get a real hit that finally bent it. I still have 2010 X-9, then another X9, this time type 2 that survived 3 derailleur hangers and some hits where rather brutal. Current Shimano derailleurs are excellent, have you seen SLX/ Zee?

I've been on luddite band wagon, not a cool place to hang out
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Are you kiding I asked about a modern derailure and you bring up one from 2001 and another from 2010 I have a 2008 x 7 that has been through the the ringer and still works and some 2000s xt derailures as well a 9 speed despite its range has a far better cassette life as well as chain life and now they make them with better range. And yes I have tried di2 and it works but my point about my 20 year old derailure is that I don't think a di2 servo motor will last anywhere near as long as a spring and cable system. I'd also like to point out that a clutch is nice in theory but it's impossible for a clutch derailure to last as long as a non clutch they want you to throw your shit out after a few years back in the day my dad and I used to dream of buying ti frames for Xc and steel hardtails for dh and all mountain but back then people bought a frame or fork to last a long long time. The forks weren't so grate but better than my manitou six I think. I'm not talking about smashing it I'm talking about life cycle when moderately cared for. although I bet your 2001 xt will stand up better to a smash it's heavier than a new one I've Seen a lot of twisted xts and xtr's
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: also 11-40 or 42 wasn't enough? You must remember 32 and the anticipation of the first 11-36?
  • + 1
 @loganflores: I just meant that most derailleurs above SLX level end their lives not due to low quality but due to collision. Just like it was happening in 1996, although in those years we weren't riding as har das we ride today.

I run 38-36 on HT, 34-40 on FS. I am a renown Eagle hater. I'll write a 1000 word long rant shitting on boost in the middle of the night. But that doesn't stop me from appreciating modern forks, NW chainrings, 42t cassettes, modern tyres, geometries, fkng modern aluminium rims, anti puncture inserts etc. etc.
  • + 1
 @loganflores: Not fokking long term time capsule"history". The history of the company itself and how it has developed it's designs, the company, their offices and culture. Just go check it out. Look at some of their original pics and how they've come along. I think it will impress you.
  • + 1
 How can someone have a modern derailier that's lasted as long as your old deraiier???? I have a 2016 zee mech and it's still going strong and couldn't have lasted any longer than it has. @loganflores:
  • + 1
 @darransandwich: well I damaged a Zee and a SLX rather quickly. They got back to service after severe treatment in vice&hammer clinic. For comparison my Sram x9 type 2 lived 4 years and outlived 3 derailleur hangers. Shimano has two weak spots: shadow connector plate between rear mech body And the hanger ( bends easily and is hard to source as a replacement) and alu cages are made of cheese. It takes a considerable amount of time to put them back to straight so that chain doesn’t drop between pulley and the cage plate.

I think the measure of rear mecha durability is changing the pulleys for the third time. However most bitchin about rear mechs
  • + 72
 This bike would look great in black & yellow cuz UNNO what it is
  • + 3
 Actually some pinstripe yellow lines on the edges of this would look very clean my oh my.
  • + 40
 The Lamborghini of bikes. This actually makes me jealous of wealthy people and the bike isn't even for sale yet
  • + 45
 How dare you? Koenigsegg!
  • + 6
 Does that make the ARBR Saker some kind of McLaren abortion then?
  • + 4
 @excavator666: I'm really sorry for ARBR and they probably didn't deserve it... but... that was the fkng funniest comment board of all times. "That bike fell from the ugly mountain and cased every jump on the way..." I still remember that...
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: If I ever had money to burn, it would be burned by Koenigsegg. The piston-driven valves alone are awesome.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: In fairness I've seen pictures of the Saker with a paint job and it looks MUCH better! It just looks hilarious in raw carbon though.

www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/arbr-saker-distinctive-enduro-bike-50370
  • + 1
 @excavator666: it's not bad looking at all. I just enjoyed the comments.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I'm definitely a function before form guy, but the Saker is fugly as fck lol.

I'm sure it's a great bike to ride, but it looks bloated and boxy, whereas other superbikes are usually svelt and sexy.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: very good.full marks sir.
  • + 27
 Put a cantilever fork on that bad boy, and sign me up.
  • + 22
 So I'll be putting absolutely everything I own on Ebay later
  • + 13
 The Pagani of bikes should have the price tag to suit and that it does, but I'm not complaining that thing could not get more niche or cool
  • + 15
 I dunno if I ever liked a bike more, that is one beauty.
  • + 14
 The price of a complete bike for just a frame....
  • + 2
 without mentioning the inaccessible shock valve even when you pay so much more.
  • + 4
 Or even two complete bikes...
  • + 20
 Ask TREK why a session carbon frame costs the same money when it is a full production model. At least this one is a Pagani of bikes as mentioned above...
  • + 4
 @gapos999: The Unno is indeed a seriously beautiful bike, but regards the Trek, it's probably because the Session 9.9 is a USA built frame set (with associated higher production costs) - the majority of Trek's carbon stuff is Asian made and hence cheaper.
  • + 6
 @Corinthian: I do not think it is more expensive to build a bike in the US than in Spain....
  • + 3
 Yes and you could buy a Merc AMG, BMW M or Audi RS.... but it ain't no Ferrari ( or Lambo, Pagani or whatever, you get the point)
  • - 1
 it is not so far away of other hi-end bikes. UNNO and HOPE bikes are dream machines more than regular bikes.
  • + 1
 @JBSDesigns: fair point, but I don't either - as it happens, I completely agree with you!
A 9.9 is £4500, an Unno is €5500 (~£5005 today) so it's a little more expensive.
My (maybe badly put?) point was really more that's it's good to make the comparison between these two frames - both the Session and Unno are up there as 'top tier' offerings from their respective companies, unusually for the bike trade, are made in Europe/US, and the list price isn't much different to each other. However both are made in countries with higher labour costs vs what we're normally used to seeing frame wise (Asian made, cheaper price point) - they're both made in a more expensive fashion then the norm, is all!
  • + 0
 So people will be outraged by the price of this DH frame, which is probably one of the best performing bikes out there, but then not think twice to pay the same for a handmade steel gravel grinder frame that actually performs worse than a more main stream brand.
  • + 4
 @homerjm: UNNO as a brand is a tour de force for CERO Design really. It is there to showcase studio's capabilities more than make money alone. That will come from doing work for other brands like Mondraker, Intense and likes of them. If in the process they make some buck from selling these hyperbikes that's OK as well.
  • + 3
 @Spark24: yeah or you could buy a mitsubishi evo for way less which will destroy any of those overpriced peacock cars in the turns.
  • + 0
 @Corinthian: And the Unno also looks like it has a real suspension design (DW-link variation) vs. Trek linkage driven single pivot.
  • + 3
 @JBSDesigns: @Corinthian - judging by the horrific cut out (by luescher_teknik on instagram) of Madone 9.9 which is same premium model of TREK, made in the same way as Session 9.9, the Made in USA is worth absolutely nothing in terms of quality. It may give you a bit of nationalistic buzz if you are into it. Trek doesn't even do monocoque construction of the front triangle, they make it in pieces and glue it together. Whereas at least judging by their instagram feed, UNNO took some big measures to make sure their carbon structure is top notch.
  • + 3
 @JBSDesigns: Nobody said it was more expensive to build in the US over Spain though. The point is that carbon manufacture outside of Asia is more expensive. Trek have a huge experience in doing it, Unno do not frankly. If Trek want to charge similar prices (less actually) for their frame to the Unno then why shouldn't they?
  • + 3
 @WAKIdesigns: Certainly, the country of origin is absolutely not indicative of any sort of innate quality - In the past, I've owned two high end US made frames that couldn't hold a candle to the weld quality on a mass produced Far Eastern £300 hybrid - hence in part, the unfortunate confidence that a European or American carbon factory worker or company can, on occasion, f*ck things up just as well as their equivalents elsewhere in the world!
  • + 1
 @Corinthian: I think the main issue is that its much more difficult to do quality control when the manufacturing and assembly process is not only thousands of miles away, but the factory managers and workers speak a different language and have different cultures.
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: yes but with all due respect that culture may be more disciplined... quite frankly, after what I saw at Raouls website makes me think that Unno or Antidote are possibly top players while everyone else is just a mine field and it may be that there is no point in paying premium for Santa Cruz CC over C, or SWorks over Expert Carbon. After that story with cracking "pre-production" swing arms from Yeti, I have no trust in Yeti offering something more over Canyon in structural terms. Yea suspension is better and looks are waaay better but...
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Does Specailized use a different carbon layup for s-works over expert?
  • + 2
 @hamncheez: Yep, I think you're spot on in a sense, although I gather some brands keep staff either permanently or frequently in the local area to smooth over such issues. It's an other piece in the "why country of origin alone, doesn't point to much necessarily, quality wise" point too. And I suppose why some companies choose to keep part or all of their frame building operations 'in country', in so far as possible.
The reality is that the quality of the initial design in terms of tube shaping and carbon layup design, quality of carbon, resin and other materials used, overall factory quality, manual labour quality (skill, training, pay, care, attention to detail) of the people working on laying it up, and the unit price point being worked to, are all just as important in the process - and all this, plus many more considerations I'm sure, can be done utterly superbly/screwed up beyond all recognition, just as well in China / Taiwan etc as in the UK/USA etc. And yep, absolutely, some brands and or factories, do this better all round then others. Hence why you sometimes see such price discrepancies between seemingly similar frames - the more expensive may well have been built to a higher overall standard by a higher quality factory, with better carbon and a better thought out layup/build design, by better people.
I've no doubt at all that the Unno will deliver in all these aspects and more, but that's because of the man and the brand ethos - he could be building them in the Antarctic and I bet the standard wouldn't budge.
  • + 1
 A complete Phoenix is almost a grand less, is DW, and is available. KAty WInton won't ask you about it though, nor @WAKIdesigns.
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Do you get some nationalistic buzz as well when proclaiming Antidote being a top player? Nothing against Antidote here. I like (the looks of) their bikes, but without any insider knowledge of the manufacturing process or having an ownership experience I can only take your word for it.
  • + 1
 @jollyXroger: Yep totally agree, I mean is not far away in cash $ € to other brands. Those bikes are like a showcase,call it hyperbike. Custom bikes are the future in all disciplines IMO.They make a great job at new Intense DH bike, looks awesome too.
  • + 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I feel there are only a few brands who be proud or trust 100% on their stuff to send one random frame or part to this guy. I would like to see this guy cutting MTB bikes.
  • + 0
 @jollyXroger: not much, more of a nostalgia
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: It's a powerful drug as well.
  • + 0
 @jollyXroger: yes, but the side effect of nostalgia is suicide, side effect of nationalism is mass genocide. You do the math Big Grin
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Can't argue with that Big Grin
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Suspension is way better ? Says who(m) exactly.. ?
  • + 1
 @Schbeemb: sorry, I lost track, quote please...
  • + 13
 I think I'm in love.
  • + 8
 "Those giant braking bumps seemed to disappear underneath the wheels, and I found myself letting off the brakes for longer than usual simply because of how composed the bike felt"

Lol...statements like this totally invalidate the article. Then again, he was running 40% sag....so maybe it was plush on the brake bumps and shit on everything else?

What a joke
  • + 2
 My thoughts exactly... Aside from the integrated bar/stem thing, I don't see what's so special about this bike. Thought it looked like a prototype demo at first.
  • + 12
 Yes, but is it the best DH bike Ever? Unno what i'm sayin'?
  • + 7
 So aside from the cool factor of a woven carbon wrap (isn't that the opposite of UD?) and getting to brag about how exclusive my bike is, why would someone actually want one? I'm all for pushing the envelope, but it sounds like a Bugatti ideology of building to a price point first. When Dave Turner finds out what he could sell a new DHR for with a pretty wrap, he's going to s--t himself.
  • + 3
 It does say that he designed a fair amount of flex into it, using ~3k woven instead of UD may be the way he achieved this. But I agree, even if I could afford it I'd be hard pushed to justify the spend. I suppose it's a bike for people that really just don't care about money.
  • + 1
 correction - I mis-read the UD vs. woven thing!
  • + 1
 Because they want to do their bikes right, not cheap. So that the whole production is in their own hands, start to finish. I'm not sure how light this one is, but i bet it's not heavy, considering their xc frame weighs roughly the same as some very high end road bike frames! And they are supposed to the the abuse of really hard riding. And of course the bling factor.
  • + 2
 The point is to sell bikes. Are Bugatti cars selling well?
  • + 1
 Bugatti was more of a Halo product for the VW group - they lost money on every Veyron they built. The Chiron is more of a business case I believe. That said, you're paying for something that's really pushing the boundaries of car design - not just an expensive lump of carbon. I'd expect it to be along the same lines here - producing a very high end product in low volume is always going to be expensive, regardless of whether that's what you're aiming for or not. As with the car industry, brands make their money on the cheap and high volume models - allowing them to fund the more niche areas.
  • + 8
 Not sure how you can test a frames suspension when you're running 40% sag, setup for someone else...
  • + 2
 right? that was my first thought.
  • + 6
 Cesar Rojo was the brain behind Mondraker´s frames and designed the Summum frame a the zero susp geometry. The man is an amazing engeneer and will always be inovating!
  • + 7
 Wow, just wow. Think this could be a contender for the best looking bike ever! Gotta love that raw carbon look.
  • + 4
 I'm probably in the minority here but I think it's pretty ugly. I hate exposed carbon and don't really like the shape of the frame. My opinion tho. But if it rides good then looks don't really matter
  • + 3
 What actually makes this "the best bike in the world"? It is incredible to look at, but what about it is specifically pushing technology; what about it is a significant evolution in design or manufacturing? Look at hyper cars these days, Koenigsegg as an example is literally creating new technology and new ways of doing things to push the boundaries of what is possible with an automobile. How does this bike do that?
  • + 3
 Hey Mike, Lucky you for getting a run on that beauty. One thing though "the goal was to build in a slight amount of lateral compliance" think you may have meant "vertical compliance".Unless Cesar has somehow managed to allow flattened tubes to defy the laws of physics.
  • + 7
 He means when you table top, or throw it into a wallride.
  • + 5
 I believe Specialized was talking about lateral compliance with the modifications to Gwin's black proto frame at that time. Moto GP bikes purposely had lateral compliance built back into the swing arm to aid in traction vs sliding in corners with super stiff setups. It may be counter-intuitive, but it seems like a common trend when manufacturers decide to roll back stiffness in certain areas. My guess is that vertical compliance is in the same plane as the suspension whereas lateral stiffness can only be dealt with by engineering in flex and removing material from the frame.
  • + 5
 There's 200mm of vertical compliance on that bike. Pretty sure he was referring to lateral compliance designed into the chassis, to avoid harsh feeling feedback.
  • + 1
 @Ron-C: Allowing some flex in a design goes back to the early 90's actually. A good bit before the MotoGP era. Marlboro Yamaha at the time was the first to call it for what it was in '93 during pre-season testing.

@foreveryoneelse: Compliance really is not the same thing as suspension movement. Compliance refers to the ability of the system to comply or give a little before the suspension could ever hope to react. This is why running sky high tire pressure is so bad because that first thing that normally provides compliance... the sidewall... has now become harder and less forgiving.

I suspect this is why Minaar has experimented with spoke tension as well.
  • + 2
 @BDKR: I think you were trying to reply to me, with regards to the vertical compliance vs. suspension (Edit: nevermind, noticed that's not the case). I was mostly joking about the 200mm of vertical compliance, but trying to point out the horizontal compliance is usually what designers are trying to hone in with their designs, as these forces aren't mitigated by any other means.

As far as Minaar experimenting with spoke tension, I read/saw that as well, but I was pretty sure that he was trying to accomplish some horizontal compliance at the wheel, after the team switched to ENVE carbon rims. In a similar way that a lot of riders like the feeling of Dorados and Shivers, and how they are a bit more complacent with the terrain and line choices.
  • + 1
 @mammal: Right on! Wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything. It's hard to get across tone on here.
  • + 6
 Looks like a 2005 Turner DHR. I like it.
  • + 1
 This is the most beautiful impractical bike I have ever scene. This is a perfect example of the future. I imagine some new materials that will allow you to essentially use processes similar to plastic injection molding to pump out highly integrated bike parts similar to these handlebars but more financially feasible.
  • + 2
 good to see someone finally admits carbon fiber is weak, thats why the frame is reinforced with woven fabric. Alloy is out of fashion these days but doesn't need external armors.
  • - 3
 He didn't say it's weak nor did he say it's reinforced with woven fabric, read it again.
  • + 10
 I did, let's see....
Fabric is some kind of external armor to protect aligned fibers because "when you get an impact it's very easy for them to separate"
And then César says "I don't get why the bicycle industry doesn't use woven fabric on the outside", meaning the vast majority don't use it, so that they don't increase the price I guess.

So when you buy a "common" carbon bike you are buying a bike made of an innately weak material. Piece of advice, choose an alloy bike or put more money and get a proper carbon bike, not the shit they usually sell.

my conclusion is the same, what's yours?
  • + 9
 @Benito-Camelas: To be fair I think the comment meant that 'standard' carbon is weak compared to his carbon with the protective layer. That weak carbon *may* still be stronger than aluminium - there is no point of reference.
  • - 8
flag Benito-Camelas (Aug 16, 2017 at 4:52) (Below Threshold)
 @slimboyjim: I don't think so, carbon is not a material known for its ability to aborb impacts, it just cracks. Like comparing limestone (carbon) to sandstone (alu). Xc and road carbon bikes are not subject to abuse enough to make that weakness appear, and let's face it, a large percentage of weekend warriors don't punish their bikes enough either. Bike makers know this and take advantage, selling standard carbon as if it were high end. At the end of the day average Joe is paying the warranty of those who do abuse their enduro bikes.
  • + 15
 @Benito-Camelas: he's merely differentiating between unidirectional carbon (where it all runs in one direction) and woven (where it runs in two opposing directions - the woven has much better impact resistance but is heavier per given area. So using the UD fibres sympathetically to the frame members direction means it's strong but light. Making the outer layer woven rather than UD means that portion of the wall thickness is much stronger. Mixing the two types means a better compromise between weight/strength and impact resistance and also allows tuning of the rigidity/flexibility.
  • + 2
 Benito Camelas, en serio??? jajaja
  • + 0
 @Benito-Camelas: I disagree that carbon is weaker, but I think that we can agree that carbon has some advantages over aluminium and aluminium has some advantages over carbon. We all get to choose what we want and assess the pros and cons for ourselves.

Oh, and since you've seen me and everyone else on pinkbike ride and smash their delicate carbon frames I expect you are in an excellent position to make sweeping statements about weekend warriors. Thank you for uncovering all our eyes as to the conspiracies out there!
  • + 1
 @OrangeGoblin: sorry but he's not merely differentiating between unidirectional carbon and woven carbon fabric, he's saying with no room for doubt that the industry at large doesn't use that outer layer (woven fabric) to get better resistance and safety, and when using just aligned fibers (a regular thing) the material is very easy to separate under impact.
And that is a fact hidden by most of the brands or, if you like, not flogged to death as other features of carbon fiber (the good ones).

@slimboyjim agreed. Everything in this world has its cons and pros, vaya putada eh?
  • + 1
 @slimboyjim: about weekend warriors: it's what I see around here. Maybe things are different up there.
about conspiracies: you're welcome, my pleasure
  • + 6
 A weave is better for out of plane loads, UD is better for in plane loads. Impact is out of plane so a weave makes sense as armour. The rest of the loads are internal (in plane) so UD makes better sense. He merely stated that too many companies forget to armour their UD fibres with a weave.
  • + 4
 This argument in 2017?

Next topic: flats vs. clips. Ready, Go!
  • + 2
 @Benito-Camelas: But he didn't actually say it is 'weak' though did he.
  • + 5
 The fibres are as strong as they are but only in their longitudinal direction. So if you want strength and stiffness in the longitudinal direction of a tube, orient the fibres in that direction and you use them most efficiently. It is like pulling a rope. It will orient in the direction of the force in which it is most efficient. If you restrict it from doing so (by impregnating it with a resin, like glue) it will behave brittle and might crack. Or the glue matrix will crack. So that's the deal with UD. Orient your fibres in the direction of the force and they'll perform great. Be a bit off and you'll run into issues. But for out of plane loads, you want a safety net. You don't want a safety net made out of ropes all in one single direction, it won't catch you. You want a lattice of different directions. Another analogy: wood vs bamboo. Bamboo is considered stronger than wood for the weight it has, provided you load it in the right direction. Bamboo fibres are more UD so to speak than most woods. But in wood you can drive a nail, the fibres will keep it together. Bamboo requires a different approach, you can't use a nail or it will split. In this case the nail is the out of plane load. Smash wood and it will hold, smash bamboo and it will split. But that doesn't mean the fibres are weak or that the material is inadequate. It is strong if used properly. It is likely to encounter unfavourable loads, you have to protect it.
  • + 1
 @vinay: Take your actual science and go elsewhere! There is no room for it on the Internet where we must all make uninformed and sweeping statements on a daily basis!

(Ps. Is there any way you can delete your comment as it doesn't fit in here?)
  • + 1
 @slimboyjim: Sorry, couldn't help myself Wink . I do get and like the joke but I do like to comment too. Mountainbiking as a sport/activity covers so many fields of science that it is probably hard for anyone to go down into the basics of everything. I'm fairly proficient in mechanics and material sciences and I'm trying to relate it to more everyday structures and materials like a rope, a net, bamboo and wood. Suddenly it isn't that "scientific" anymore and approachable for everyone. Then again there are definitely fields where I'm out of my dept. If Leatt claims neck braces are great and POC claims there not so much so, who am I to believe? I consider both as respected companies. If Abi teaches me an exercise to strengthen or mobilize whatever part of my body, I believe it. If some physio then tells me it is completely wrong then I'm confused again. That's the thing right? There is some stuff we're really proficient and confident in and there is some stuff we learn from others to the point that we just believe it is correct. And then we start to teach others the same thing. That's how we learn, we can't be proficient in everything and can't verify everything down to the absolute fundamentals. So yeah, I think we just need to accept that people make uninformed statements here. As long as we also accept that others respectfully inform us that we're wrong.
  • + 1
 It surely is beautiful but the routing on the top tube would certainly get a lot of water and crap inside! Swapping the bearings on that very expensive swingarm should be interesting too?!
  • + 5
 I'd Unno
  • + 3
 Caution sheeps, unwanted wet spots on your pants, what is so special on this bike that others don't have, beside price?
  • + 4
 Looks like a Demo
(hides under desk)
  • + 2
 It does, but you will be given negative props, leaving you feeling as though you're the crazy one who can't recognize shapes and patterns.
  • + 2
 Why would you want a bar and stem in one? I think the bars and stem look shite, and also how are you ment to adjust your bars
  • + 1
 It might be a silliness, well... it really is but I wonder how that bikes stand by himself in the pictures. Such a mistery. Btw, this is not a MTB bike this is a MTB masterpiece.
  • + 3
 Looks like a bling Canyon Sender
  • + 0
 Careful you'll get @kleinblake all hot under the collar. I said the same thing and he popped a blood vessel. my comment seems to have vanished.
  • + 1
 Dammn, I shoulda stayed in school and become a dentist/doctor/lawyer! I'd definitely get one if I had the money (and skills to ride it fast enough).
  • + 1
 A carbon bike that actually looks like it's made of carbon fibre. Why do bikes get painted again? Is it to impress the girls?
  • + 2
 amazing bike, that handlebar looks so crazy light.
shame there is no weight of the bike... I guess around 14.5 kilos?
  • + 2
 Starting off with medium frames... I guess you never see tall guys buying Ferraris either
  • + 1
 Not a fan of the weave look. Would look hot in unidirectional matte carbon.
  • + 1
 WHEN does somebody start making Aftermarket CF fork lowers to pimp these awesome bike builds?
  • + 1
 Am I the only one liking the idea and thinking that went in it, but not the look of this thing?
  • + 1
 Asked my wife to guess the price of the frame $5600! Clearly looks fancy even to the non cyclist
  • + 1
 That is one sick looking bike, now there's a bike that's worth a wad of cash. Freakin' sweet.
  • + 1
 no one words about wheight!
and why so f##kin ugly seat and post on topbike??
  • + 0
 hard to believe that the most important information about this bike is missing. it's like testing a race car and not mention how much horse power it has.
  • + 1
 Late to the party is an understatement, but is Ever really short for Everest? Would Unno Ever be... First Ever?
  • + 1
 Pleeeeease don't add an aero seat post to this bike... that is just so pointless and lame.
  • + 1
 I second this!
  • + 1
 Finally!!!!! A carbon frame builder talking about not making the bike too stiff. There is hope yet!
  • + 2
 Looks like an (ob)session.
  • + 1
 Damned ... as nice as that looks, I do not think I will Ever be able to afford that frame...
  • + 2
 Um...I like the seat clamp
  • + 1
 Unno looks as Intense as Ever!
  • + 1
 Is there any specs for frame and complete bike weight??
  • + 1
 I would argue, session looks way better
  • + 1
 How do you wipe off the shock dust seal, looks hidden
  • + 1
 What's happening here! I'm seeing a lot of pornography here! damn!
  • + 1
 Dear park rats, carbon doesn't matter hint hint....
  • + 1
 The front end looks almost exactly like a Demo.
  • + 1
 ha ha 5500 E's for plastic frame only...looks like a nice VPP... Nah
  • + 1
 looks almost like the brand new intense ??
  • + 2
 Well, the same guy is involved in the design process for both bikes - Cesar has been helping Intense develop their latest line of bikes.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer: oh makes sense !
  • + 1
 6400 dollars for a frame! Wow
  • + 1
 Would still look better in UD carbon, the weave looks cheap
  • + 1
 No water bottle mounts...pass.
  • + 1
 Adjusting bar roll shouldn't be too hard?
  • + 1
 Drop dead sexy Drool I want it but know I can never afford it !!!!
  • + 1
 Why wallet... WHY!!!!! I want that thing!
  • + 1
 I saw this in the lift que on Monday. Its amazing
  • + 1
 i want it to make sweet love to me ...
  • + 1
 Are you going to sell uh ... posters of it?
  • + 1
 Damn. I need to go change out of my bibs now! #sexybike
  • - 1
 I saw a prototype in Vallnord in september 2016, and it blew me out of my mind. Would fap to it again.
  • + 1
 badass....looks mint
  • + 1
 Meh
  • + 1
 Bad ass.
  • + 1
 is the rear rim damaged?
  • + 1
 Badassery at its finest.
  • + 1
 Don Quijote on his bike.
  • + 1
 Proper sic!
  • + 1
 This is a wannabe FRM
  • + 0
 Nice frame, where and when can I buy the handlebars?
  • + 0
 "FIAT"
  • + 0
 Looks sik
  • - 1
 오호 ~~
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