Update: Remember the Ever Given? Your New Bike Might Still Be Stuck

Apr 27, 2021
by Alicia Leggett  

Remember that ship that had its 15 minutes of fame last month when it blocked the Suez Canal, inspired a week of incredible memes, and threatened to upend the entire global economy?

As it turns out, although the news cycle has moved on and the iconic Twitter guy has mostly stopped posting, the 18,000 containers that were on the Ever Given have been seized by Egyptian authorities and are being held, along with the ship itself and the 25 crew members.

Canyon has a shipment of bikes stuck on the Ever Given, a spokesperson said in March, and Bird Cycleworks posted last week that there's a shipment of new hardtails aboard, too.


bigquotesWhy is this relevant I hear you ask? Well.... in one of those containers is our next batch of Zero AM 27.5 frames in three fresh new colours that we were hoping to be able to build about now. The Zero AM is one of three hardtail frames that we were planning to release this year.Bird Cycleworks

It was easy to imagine that the saga would end with the freeing of the ship, but that was just not the case. Once the ship was moved out of the way to the Great Bitter Lake in Egypt, the drama became more complicated. Now, behind the scenes, a logistical and administrative nightmare is unfolding.

When the Ever Given was cleared from the canal, the Suez Canal Authority seized the ship and demanded more than $900 million USD in compensation for the recovery effort, damage to the canal, damage to the canal's reputation, and lost revenue, though the nearly-billion-dollar figure hasn't been fully justified or itemized. Jai Sharma, a maritime lawyer with Clyde & Co, a London firm representing several insurers of cargo on board the Ever Given, told NPR that he has never seen a salvage demand of this scale.

And the $900 million is just in the negotiations between the SCA and Shoei Kisen Kaisha, the ship's owner. Since the ship is loaded with 18,000 containers full of all kinds of consumer goods, there are myriad stakeholders and a lot of lawyers and insurance companies involved.

Even when the financial side of things is sorted out, which may not be anytime soon, the actual removal of the containers from the ship will be tricky. The cranes needed to unload a ship of that monstrous size are not available outside of the world's major seaports, and certainly not at a lake in Egypt. The ship will need to be moved before the Canyon, Bird, and likely many other bikes are rescued.

The bike shortage is not new, and we knew the Suez Canal blockage would affect things even further, but the effects seem to be compounding in grimly surreal ways.


158 Comments

  • 364 2
 Darn it Egypt, let my people('s bikes) go
  • 49 0
 Is this the 2nd part of the plagues?
  • 33 2
 Worried about their reputation but then holds up goods meant for consumers all over the world. Time for a good plague eh?
  • 4 0
 @racecase: That was the first part this time around actually.
  • 8 0
 @racecase: never mind, I can't read and am not a clever man
  • 2 0
 I didn't realize the VolksFahrrad were onboard.
  • 2 8
flag noplacelikeloam (Apr 27, 2021 at 13:46) (Below Threshold)
 Very accurate, Exodus had a pretty messed up narrative and ending. Not exactly sure who really came out on top, which sounds about right for this mess also.
  • 8 0
 Cameron was in Egyptland...let my Cameron gooooo...
  • 15 0
 Speaking of people, am I reading correctly that the crew are essentially be held as hostages for ransom?
  • 2 0
 Send in the nukes!!
  • 1 0
 @TheLoamDeranger: username checks out
  • 2 0
 This is the most perfect comment I've ever read on this site.
  • 4 5
 America should invade Egypt. Oh wait. That's been done twice already.
  • 2 1
 @JohanG: New record for most upvotes without a single downvote total...199? @pinkbikeaudience is that a category?
  • 2 0
 @muscogeemasher: it is normal to be an hostage in Egypt Wink
  • 2 0
 @danielfox: Would be easier to just stop sending them food.
  • 1 0
 @JohanG: Hahaha
  • 1 0
 @ReformedRoadie: "How about a limo? A nice stretch job with a TV and a bar!?"
  • 106 3
 I've heard Specialized has a really good team of lawyers, maybe they can sort this out?
  • 2 1
 I wish... pretty sure my new Enduro is on that boat!
  • 3 0
 @Lokirides: US orders wouldn't go through the canal, would it?
  • 14 0
 @riccardoleumann: True... I was using my great American knowledge of geology!
  • 15 0
 @Lokirides: *geography
  • 2 0
 Only if they've got a model in the 2022 line-up called the 'Evergiver" or something of that ilk.
  • 14 0
 @Quinn-39: "Geology" was a self deprecating joke. Like our healthcare system!
  • 2 0
 @Lokirides: I did wonder... Razz
  • 94 0
 Going to be a hard problem to contain
  • 56 0
 Total ship show
  • 42 0
 Rudder we going to do
  • 32 0
 They'll have a hull of a time fighting this
  • 13 2
 @racecase: I already have a bike, no skin off my aft.
  • 34 0
 Ever a Given: things go sideways, and somebody Suez...
  • 17 0
 $900 million, someones going to need a stern talking too.
  • 11 0
 I don't know what all the fuss is aboat
  • 83 1
 A month has gone by and still waiting for my Calvin and Hobbes shower curtain
  • 4 1
 @artistformlyknowasdan You made my day LOL!!!
  • 47 0
 Don't worry, the lawyers will sort it out. Said no one ever.
  • 10 1
 I mean don't we basically try this in the States? Isn't most of congress lawyers?
  • 42 2
 What about manufacturing your bikes in Europe?
  • 9 1
 ZING!
  • 24 0
 Yep. It's like when companies say you can't do high end carbon bikes locally and boom, you have GG here, making everything in house around the similar prices of the stuff imported from China and I'm pretty sure workers at GG are paid normally.
  • 3 5
 Say it and shhhhhhaaazam, it’s done, just like magic eh?

Any idea of the scale of business and production you would need to keep up with demand?

I’m more than sure some companies are looking to re-shore after what has been an odd period of time but it’s not going to be an overnight thing, it will take years, possibly decades to see any large scale changes.
  • 5 1
 @justanotherusername: Of course, but do we really feel that is happening? There will be a moment, very soon where China will get on same level when it comes to wages / price to produce the stuff. I assume that majority of big companies does not own the factories so they dont have investments in tooling and people which of course is a big chunk and where eventually makers will try to make cuts to keep big companies still making stuff there.

And in Europe, we totally wiped out that manufacturing so no one wants to invest millions into manufacturing before it really pays off. I think it will be very interesting.

What could happen is that they keep producing in China while the prices for end consumer will keep rising but at no additional value for them. And how knows how far this will take and if it will actually help to move manufacturing back to Europe at any point at all.

However there is another side of this and thats dependency on one country to produce for the majority of the world. And we already know that is not the best experience and being dependable will probably do more harm on many other levels.
  • 2 1
 The Problem is, most of the knowledge of how to mass produce a frame is in Asia I doubt they will share it with the rest of the World
  • 3 1
 @dark-o: I see your point, however even if they mastered it over the time, this is not a rocket science. It's more about two other factors – tooling, which is very expensive and experienced workers. Europe definitely crippled the industry by wiping it out so there is less people having the true experience, but let's just look on all these small german makers. They are not here for a very long time and they can produce amazing things. The scale is just another step (that some will add and some not).
  • 2 0
 @kusa: Soon? - do a little research regarding wages in China (though the bike industry is mainly centred in Taiwan and likely pays more) - Average factory worker wages come in around $7500 per year, still a looooong way to go until they get to USA / European wages.

Making an aluminium frame in Europe isn’t an issue, nor is the funding it seems - an automated plant is either being built or planned to be built that can construct a HT frame in something obscene like 7 mins, but that’s low end stuff, not labour intensive like carbon, but robots are getting cheaper and people more imaginative with them so automation likely the cure there.

The big problem though aside from all of this and why I say it would take years maybe decades - the industry is centred in Taiwan / China, so you want to build a bike, frame is made in Taiwan, so are almost all of the parts required to build it, you send them down the road for assembly. Build them in Europe and Shimano / Sram etc are shipping you containers of parts over sea to build bikes, and we can’t automate bike building very easily so those $7500 annual wages now count.

I have said before, I know of a company that actually lost an order to an OEM as they manufactured in Europe and would have to ship to Taiwan for assembly.

Ebikes will only make this worse I would think, it’s a long way off seeing a bike built in Europe.
  • 2 0
 That's what you should do... However, producing in China still has significant points in favour such as low labour costs and the absence of controls on polluting emissions. As for the first point things are changing ... there are advanced companies that produce with robots and so having the implants in Southeast Asia is a higher cost than having them in Europe. For the second point, I see it as longer because we know how much china cares about the environment.
  • 2 1
 Very hard because of the high taxes and labor laws. Everyone who hasn't tried to run a manufacturing business in the West will now downvote.
  • 33 0
 What a lot of people dont realise is a maritime clause called general average. This means if you have a container on a ship that has been salvaged they spread the costs across the owners of the goods being carried. So you're liability is based on a percentage on the value of goods you are hoping to ship or receive. So Bird if they dont have a clause in their freight insurance could end up paying a nice bill on this one.
And if you were carrying millions of dollars or pounds worth of product I'd say some people are shittin bricks now.

"General average clause
The general average clause in ocean marine insurance obligates the insurers of various interests to share the cost of losses incurred voluntarily to save the voyage from complete destruction. Such sacrifices must be made voluntarily, must be necessary, and must be successful. For example, if a shipper’s cargo is voluntarily jettisoned in a storm in order to save the vessel from total loss, the general average clause requires the insurers of the hull and of all other cargo interests to make a contribution to the loss of the shipper whose goods were sacrificed. Other types of losses may also be covered. It has been held, for example, that losses suffered from efforts to put out a fire on shipboard, which result in damage to specific goods, can be included in a general average claim. Similarly, losses from salvage efforts to free a stranded vessel may qualify under a general average claim to which all interests must contribute."
  • 41 0
 Today I learned something about maritime law on Pinkbike...
  • 4 0
 amazing clause, I was actually wondering, how the hell is the ship owner getting out of this one? The company might save itself out of thise one, but it is definitely going to pull a lot of small customers under, if the clause passes through.
  • 3 0
 @ghotinori: dont worry tomorrow the water bottle carrying controversy will resume.
  • 3 0
 @Narro2: www.supplychaindive.com/news/ever-given-general-average-shipper-cost/597994

It doesn't happen often. But the Ever Given declared General Average
  • 1 0
 Funny you mention that, I have heard that one bike industry manufacturer with a container on the Ever Given has instructed them to chuck said container overboard for this very reason.
  • 7 0
 @hairybarnyard: I'd assume it's a token overboard ie, giving it up to the port authority in lieu of paying out on the General Average.
Otherwise... pass me my tricorn, a flagon of rum, and let's go smuggling!

Yarrrrr!
  • 1 0
 @hairybarnyard: Another funny thing about maritime law is that the carrier will still expect you to pay the shipping bill and/or deposit in lieu of GA declared once the box gets overboard.
  • 4 0
 @ROOTminus1: I like the idea that there's some Egyptian pirates out there discovering a whole new world of shred.
  • 1 0
 yep. this is largely fought between insurance companies though. maritime insurance is pretty universal in the industry. no one, and I am not even sure a shipping broker would let you, skip the insurance.
  • 1 0
 @Gremclon: but I dont think is really going to go through though, the Egyptian government is just looking for a quick cashgrab, the loses were definitely not 900M. There will be lots of back and forth before defining who's gonna pay, if someone will actually pay.
  • 1 0
 @hairybarnyard: Look at me. Look at me! I'm schralping berms now.
  • 1 0
 @hairybarnyard: good to know they'd be starting on hardtails!
  • 34 0
 oof
  • 33 1
 Yes. In technical terms. Oof. In even more technical terms, what a colossal fuck up.
  • 1 0
 @Jaib06: Now I know that there is a "technical term" and "even more technical term"
  • 22 0
 EVER TAKEN
  • 1 0
 Has to start with a G EVER GRIFTED
  • 15 0
 You know who really doesn't get enough credit? That excavator operator. I mean on a normal job, you have a boss, or a client clamoring and harassing you to hurry up, but he had like half the world clamoring at him!
  • 15 0
 Fun part is that the guy in digger claimed that they did not even pay him yet.... I wonder how much of those 900 milion he will see. Probably around 0.
  • 17 0
 Jokes on you. I don't have a new bike coming.
  • 12 0
 WAIT A MINUTE youre in australia mate
  • 13 0
 Did I skip too quickly or are they holding actual human beings hostage and no one is concerned about this? Unless that person is being charged with a crime is that not illegal to detain a human being over this?
  • 5 1
 Only one of the crew members (the captain presumably) got that boat stuck. The other 24 should be free to go home to their families.
  • 5 3
 That's actually normal in cases where foreign flagged vessels are seized. Technically the crew was responsible for driving their ship into the Canal in the first place.
  • 9 0
 @mi-bike: nope, that's not the case. They are being held as "witnesses," though reportedly two of them have been given permission to leave to attend to "urgent personal matters."

I think the legal loophole is that they are fulfilling their contracts in which they agreed to remain at sea.
  • 8 0
 @deeeight: There is always a guide from the Suez Canal Authority on every ship. To blame now the crew does not make sense.
  • 9 1
 @squarewheel: The ship owners should sue the SCA for letting them go into the canal when there were high winds and a sandstorm.
  • 3 0
 @alicialeggett: Fair enough. I understand the legal framework that allows them to be kept in country as witnesses. However, it should also be clear to most everyone that these (likely low-wage) crew members are not held because they have critical information to aid the investigation. Ergo, they should be allowed to leave.
  • 13 1
 @squarewheel: The guide tells the crew where to go but the crew is STILL responsible for operating the vessel though. Despite the advice of the two local pilots on the bridge, the Captain of the Ever Given chose not to go thru the Canal with the assistance of a tugboat (the two ships which went thru ahead of it that morning had tugs secured to their sterns to help keep them on course), and it also exceeded the speed limit in the Canal. The limit is 8.6 knots and the ship was doing 13.7 knots when coming out of its first turn (and 200,000 ton ships don't slow down very quickly once up to speed). Big ships in high cross winds in narrow canals are a recipe for disaster when going thru too fast and unassisted.
  • 1 0
 @alicialeggett: They'd be getting paid some serious overtime right, right?!
  • 2 0
 it is normal in Egypt ... we Italians are still awaiting justice for the death of Giulio Regeni !
  • 5 0
 Starting in 1967, several ships and their crews got stuck in the Suez canal for 8 YEARS. The crews invented their own postage systems and an Olympic games en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Fleet
  • 2 0
 @mattg95: the boats were stuck the crews had the ability to leave.
  • 11 0
 The canal authority is worried about the damage to the canal's reputation? Don't worry at all about that, you did that just fine yourselves.
  • 13 2
 I bet Guerilla Gravity will never run into this issue. \m/
  • 6 0
 The Beirut Explosion happened because a ship couldnt pay its fines, so the country confiscated all its goods and stored them in a building by the pier. Same thing here, everyone should just say goodbye to their stuff on that ship.
  • 4 1
 One does have the right to abandon cargo if one chooses... that or accept the General Average cost to release said goods.
  • 10 6
 What the Suez Canal Authority is doing is modern day piracy. It is literally a finger in the air demand.
Everyone with goods on that ship, including myelf, has been notififed by their importer that they are gettig hit for General Average. We must all share the cost of rescue. Standard maritime insurance only covers vessels lost at sea. In the case of a rescue or a fire, the owners of any salvaged cargo split the cost of the rescue (unless they had specific insurance to cover against that).
No idea how much it's going to cost, but $900M divided by 18000 is a lot more than the shipping service itself cost.
  • 8 0
 $50K per container and not everyone with goods is waiting on a full container. The value on each may not be high either, you can fill a 40 footer with $10K of product depending on what it is.

Egypt is just looking for a payday here, the most financially hit victims are the ones waiting on this shipment and the ones on all of the other ships that were stuck behind this one.

I have my doubts they get this money after pressure from surrounding countries forces them to back off. It's about the larger trade picture and politics.
  • 2 0
 What if you decide to cut your losses regarding receiving the goods - would they chase for payment do you think or is it a release fee as such?

Could be an expensive mistake for a lot of peeps this one, though the 900mil is absolute bullshit.
  • 1 1
 @justanotherusername: what I was told is that it might take a couple of years to get sorted out, in which time the fee may or may not change. No final charge has been calculated yet (for example I own 10% of one container, which is about £5555 assuming that there are no other charges added to the ridiculous number already quoted). If we decide our cargo is worth less than that, we always have the right to abandon it. It will then become the property of the ship’s insurer who will sell it on at an auction.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: damn, for work we have only ever used air freight from Taiwan as the product is light / small so I am entirely unaware (as most are I expect) of this law/rule.

Hopefully something is worked out for you and you aren’t in desperate need of whatever is still sitting on that boat.
  • 2 1
 @justanotherusername: imagine you lived in Taiwan with your family for ten years, then moved back to the UK. Everything you own minus what fits in seven suitcases is going to be shipped.
The shipper even said he never takes out extra insurance because nothing ever goes wrong. It’s a one in a million chance. And then to find out that if the ship actually sank we would be fully covered, but if it beaches it’s considered to be imperilment/rescue so they can apply general average.
Added to that, the cost of recovery is being paid by the ship’s insurer.
The SCA literally has costs of whatever ships diverted around Africa, which was very few. The ships that queued up all went through a week later, and they all paid.
It’s piracy I tell thee!
  • 2 1
 @jaame: Well shit, hopefully you get your stuff back, thats rough.
  • 5 1
 Cheap prices on goods and services means manufactured in China by slave labor and you risk stuff like this happening. Not often something like this happens but when it does there are dramatic effects. Be willing to pay more for domestic products.
  • 14 1
 Couldn’t agree more. The US has systematically given its manufacturing away over the last few years so that mini storage facilities can exist to be filled with cheap over seas shit that you don’t need. Trump acted like a 2 year old on social media, but he had it right trying to bring manufacturing and jobs back to the US. I’ll gladly pay more for goods made here under one condition—they have to be good quality. The US auto industry screwed up in the 70’s when they turned the biggest pieces of shit imaginable and watched the Japanese kill it by upping the quality of their vehicles.
  • 3 0
 @endoguru: Incredibly spot on assessment
  • 3 0
 @endoguru: buying American is often an easy task. Many times a made in America part may be 5-10% more than a China product. Take the time to read the labels and make the right choice. It’s much better for the environment and the country you live in.
  • 5 0
 Egypt is an interesting country. Im dying to go see some of the many sights post pandemic, maybe this ship will be one of them? "Here is the great pyramid, and the sphinx, and the new addition: the ever given."
  • 1 1
 Weren’t there also livestock on board? Now you can tour the vast containers of mummified sheep and cattle.
  • 1 0
 @blackthorne: oh I didn’t know that, I feel bad for them, wtf would they put animals on shipping container boats
  • 1 0
 @zombiejack33: I guess it is cheaper to ship the meet alive instead of meet that needs cooling.
  • 7 0
 @squarewheel: do you eet meet?
  • 3 0
 @callumreynolds: jes ei du ;-)
  • 6 0
 I would just like to say it makes me very happy to see myriad used without "a" before and "of" after. I know both are technically correct, but one is more correct damnit.
  • 3 0
 poor bird. all of the frames are worthless. i suppose it takes a long time until that mess is cleared up and the frames are at bird but then there are a zillion new standards on the market and the frames stuck on the ever given are pieces for a museum.
  • 16 1
 Well, they were 27.5s. How many years was that ship stuck anyway.
  • 8 0
 Ship happens...
  • 2 0
 Ship hattens
  • 6 0
 Sounds like a real fun time for everybody involved.
  • 3 0
 Sounds like they are doing more damage to their reputation right now by being complete wankers than that boat ever did. I doubt they plan on giving that digger driver a cent either.
  • 2 0
 Not too many Suez Canal competitors though so they can be a shit as they like and know it.
  • 1 0
 And what's the alternative? The Israeli's had ONE chance fifty years ago with that crackpot plan to use a bunch of fusion bombs to blast a path through the Negev.
  • 2 0
 This is one boat load, Taiwan drought may have a bigger impact on things,
its already affecting the tech industry. Combine human error, covid and the
enviornment and we got plenty to be dealing with, chuck in a few wars to
add a little spice to the mix, who cares as long as it doesnt affect me ?
  • 5 0
 At least the front didn't fall off.
  • 1 0
 @kenoath: sure am Smile
  • 1 0
 Why would bike parts coming from China to America go through there when there are *much* shorter routes (read: cheaper) used daily to Longbeach, Oakland, Houston, Savannah, etc? Smells like some folks are using this 1 ship as an excuse for other delays and expecting we don't know how to read a map.
  • 3 0
 One would think there was a lot more than just one Ever Given
Like one for every bike brand maybe?
  • 5 0
 NeverGiven
  • 3 1
 Suez itself doesn't have stuck boat insurance? Very suspicious.

All parties should counter sue Egypt for their negligent canal, negligent guide, and generally being idiots.
  • 2 0
 Lets pray there are no animals or human traffic being smuggled in those containers
  • 2 0
 there's certainly both. sadly. all dead now of course.
  • 1 0
 I bet my Transition Spur ist stuck on the Ever Given as well. It was supposed to become available in Germany around eastern. Suddenly that changed to until further notice. Frown
  • 3 2
 These shipping companies are biking around the bush, like take care of the problem already.
  • 3 2
 More reason to build bike in the USA. Calling all bike companies, STOP BEING SELLOUTS!
  • 5 0
 Can you imagine how much a domestically made Yeti would cost? GG should just become a USA Giant and make everyone’s frames.
  • 3 0
 Do you want a $12,000 basic full suspension bike? Because that's how you get a $12,000 full suspension bike.
  • 1 0
 Frames or bikes and all parts that go into one?

If it’s the former you still have this issue, where do you think the parts come from and how are they shipped.
  • 2 0
 Just received my USA handmade Litespeed. Took two weeks from order to front door. I really do hope companies and riders start looking into more domestic purchases. Frames are on sale right now.
  • 1 0
 @slayersxc17: Frames are one thing - but who made the parts that you will be building the bike up with?
  • 1 0
 @justanotherusername: yeah, thought about that two secs after I posted. You’re totally right, got SRAM all over the place. Thankfully right now I just moving parts from a old frame.
  • 1 0
 @Galaxywide: Lots of Americans are pushing for a national $15 minimum wage and guaranteed universal basic income, but none of them want to pay the price for that by supporting US made products because they are too expensive to produce. Go figure.
  • 1 0
 @justanotherusername:

Hope made my bottom bracket and Brakes in the U.K., headset made in USA hubs are swiss made, rims are French, Seatpost, handlebars & grips made in USA. Cranx made in USA by Boone, stem made in USA only Asian components on my bike are shifters, cassette, chain & tires FWIW. On my single speed the only Asian parts are the chain and tires.

It can be done. It isn’t cheap; but plenty of great stuff made with sustainable labor practices.
  • 1 0
 @330ci: So - out of a few parts of your boutique bike (you admit it isnt cheap, e.g. not affordable for the majority) you have gone out of your way to purchase USA made, but I am not sure what this proves - we all know these companies exist producing high quality components and there are a huge number of them serving in their own niche marketplace.

Unless said companies can develop the ability to manufacture at scale, reduce pricing by a huge margin and move to allow for ease of delivery for assembly the problem still remains though.

I didnt say parts couldnt be made in the USA, France, UK etc - But my consitant argument is that the reason bikes are made in Taiwan is much more complicated than just the manufacture of each individual component.

Your bike sounds really nice - but the person stretching to a $2000 bike on credit isnt going to be convinced.
  • 1 0
 @justanotherusername:

I guess my point is that it isn’t any more than top of the line components from Taiwan the marketing and margins just can’t compete
  • 2 0
 Only 25 crew members on that beast of a boat???
  • 2 1
 It's not an aircraft carrier doing crazy varied shit on a packed schedule so I'm guessing you don't really need thousands of hyper specialized workers on board.
  • 1 0
 @Peally:I was sarcastic 25 are probably high officers, a shit loads of people are needed to run a ship that big probably just 25 in the engine room to keep thing smooth then people to feed those guys, safety crew, fire team and more.
  • 1 0
 @ybsurf:
Nah, 25 is pretty much normal. Crew are expensive and robots work for free.

Ironically prescient article:
robertjprince.net/2015/02/23/global-container-shipping-bigger-ships-smaller-crews-a-formula-for-disaster

Gotta keep those profit margins yo.
  • 2 0
 No more jokes about the Suez canal, that ships sailed...
  • 1 0
 What tyres for the lawyers?
  • 3 3
 My bike was made in the US of A. Yeeeee hawwwww. Not sure where the aluminum came from though.
  • 4 0
 60% of "raw" aluminum comes from China, but a lot of the aluminum in the US is recycled, your bike might have aluminum mined since the Romans. It is very common for aluminium, copper, and other metals alike.
  • 2 0
 Your bike was? Or would that be just the frame itself and almost nothing else on it?
  • 1 0
 @Narro2: that 60% figure is only true because china has no qualms about digging asteroid impact sized holes all over the place. Austraila actually has a fuuuuuuck ton of Bauxite ore, but they have reconsidered the type of mining it takes to get to it.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: yep, thats probably true
  • 1 0
 Well, ship!
  • 1 0
 ahha YT bikes
  • 3 4
 Jihad, jihad! I steal you bikes, unclean peoples.
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