Video: Top Fuel vs Element vs Jet9 vs Trance 29 vs Blur TR vs Lux Trail - Field Test Roundtable

 Comes to us all pal.

 Come to the not so young side, join us

 I think we need a term for getting older and less rad. Downward country seems about right. Welcome to the club from a long time member... Fortunately, they are making bikes for us and they keep getting better!

 Right there with ya.

 @fracasnoxteam: *in my best Darth Vader voice 'I am your Grandfather...' *very heavy breathing...

 After 40 it's all downcountry

 On the flip side, they can work for not-so-old guys (like Levy) too. Those who unwisely like to get sideways and a little scared on the descents, but also like to mash the pedal to the floor the entire climb.

I've had one for a little while, it's a f*cking dog fight every descent and climb and I'm totally hooked.

 @50percentsure: My favorite bike right now is actually a hardtail - such a blast to ride on the edge of control without needing extreme terrain to get that thrill. But my aging bones can't take the beating for long and I'm leaning toward trading in my trail bike for something downcountry. Totally aligned with Levy' comments. Downcountry - bridging the generation gap!

 So that's what it is... I wondered why these kind of bikes are so appealing to me now.

 @gomeeker: Deradification?

 @50percentsure: 100% agree with this. Was on a Troy until recently, and unless I was bombing sketchier trails, it made my usual solo routes a little uninteresting, and it was a dog on the climbs (2017 alloy version). Took an epic Evo around my favourite loop, its way more fun going up hill, and makes the downhill way more spicy/interesting.

It's not for everyone, for sure, but I think a lot of people could stand to go down in travel a bit more than they'd think.

 @number44: Nailed it right there....

 ...welcome to the "i'm not as rad anymore, my son sends it bigger now" club.

 I'll direct you to 12:35 when Levy shows the universal hand sign for shorter stem and riser bars on the XC weapon

 @jason475: I have 2 sons who are now sending it bigger than me

 All about finding the sweet spot for me. My YT Izzo is a tad too XC firm and the Jeffsy is too tankish to me. I want something that falls somewhere in between. Hoping I can tweak the Izzo to find the right balance. The Spur and the Element might be the sweet spot. But neither were available. In normal times, I would have demoed a bunch of bikes and found the perfect one. The bike shortage has made bike shopping very tricky.

 @wutamclan: the spur is not plusher and more squishy than the in izzo though... If anything, the spur is the more xc/downcountry and the izzo more of a trail bike...

 @powderhoundbrr: thats truly awesome!

 No problemo PowderHoundbrr! I'm 75 YOA and help coach a high school MTB team. I tell them "I used to go fast and far; then far; now I just try to go!"
Rubber side down! Rule #1 is FUN! :-)

 I’m 40, so “over the hill.” It’s all downhill from here!

 @wutamclan: the new stumpy is what you want

 @number44:
I resemble that but took me 10 additional years to figure it out.

 @bryce77: Indeed. I think many of us have followed a similar path over our riding lives and as the industry evolved.

Started on a GT Outpost and quickly upgraded to a custom Zaskar and that build evolved from a MZ Flylight 100 to a DJII to a Z1 or drop off, I don't recall but it was an anchor.

Wanted more squish but still ability to ride trails with one bike, say hello to the Coiler (far ahead of its time).
Meh, I want to go bigger and ride rougher, but still don't shuttle and occasionally ride park... enter 1st gen SX Trail (if only you could raise and lower the seat with a button!).

Hmm, still want to push harder on DH trails but can't justify a DH specific sled so let's just rent for park. Trails seem so much smoother, but let's be honest, I'm no Sam Hill and there's now kids running around the house so maybe I should try more XC oriented riding...

Hang up the pads, jump the ship and buy an Epic. Holy smokes this thing is FAST - accelerating uphill? what is this? - but TWITCHY! Covering more ground, but even the slightest air or sketch makes my sphincter uncomfortably tight.

Well, what do we have here, a Fuel? hmm, better geo, more travel - just size up and shorten the stem and enjoy this nimble toy while the 29er world figures itself out and then bam, geo and components come together in these wonderfully capable new breed of Downcountry/Trail machines that honestly make me wish I had my Tall Boy for the past 25yrs. It's perfect for what I ride. Too bad I had to wait two decades for the industry to produce what I had tried to build with my Coiler back in 2004.

 At 57 I know what you mean! Still pedaling though...

 @pourquois-pas: Amen.

 Yep, we're not going to stop doing the Value Field Tests any time soon - we've got another one already on the calendar for early(ish) 2022.

 @mikekazimer: Would be cool to see a hardcore hardtail field test, there haven't been many hardtails tested Would be interesting to see how you would ride/review and like them compared to all the fs bikes

 @NuclearNachos, we had a handful of hardtails in the last two value field tests, and there will be more in the next one as well. You can find those here: www.pinkbike.com/news/welcome-to-the-2021-pinkbike-value-bikes-field-trip.html and here: www.pinkbike.com/news/welcome-to-the-2020-pinkbike-field-trip.html.

 @mikekazimer: Providing the links...not sure Frank can call THAT a "large disservice".

 @mikekazimer: I've seen those, but those don't scratch the steel hardtail itch I have haha. Still great you included them, would love to see some chromags, niners, ragleys, stantons, etc. Only issue is most hardcore hardtails are just frame only or not the greatest value, but at least we have hardtailparty for great reviews and info on a ton of bikes

 @mikekazimer: Not to sound like that guy who cries about "X" bike brand not being included in any test, but I'd love to hear PBs take on the Bird Aether 9 AL as it recently won trail bike of the year in a British publication. On paper at least it looks like great value, so any chance you'll be able to obtain one for next value test @mikekazimer ?

 @MumblesBarn, I'll see what we can do - it all comes down to availability, which is extra challenging right now.

 @NuclearNachos: It would be great to see a field test of the Kona Honzo ESD, Cotic BeFe Max, Chromag Rootdown, Rocky Mountain Growler, and I am sure people can add more to that list. I admit a field test like that would not be for everyone, but it would totally be my favorite to watch.

 @Offrhodes: @NuclearNachos So basically you want to watch Hardtail Party on YouTube. don't worry, he hasn't been bought by Outside.... yet.

 @andwrong: But I want them all tested on the same trails, same weather, save few days period for a true head to head comparison.

 @Offrhodes: Could bring in @hardtailparty as a guest editor to join the PB crew for a mashup. Would be a fun cross-channel exercise.

 @Offrhodes: Good selection. I'd like to add the Pipedream Moxie, Ragley Big Al

 @dennis72: Yup. I'd also throw in a local - the Knolly Tyaughton; possibly also something like the RSD Middlechild or the Passila Ramakka.

Would be ideal if they could keep the components aligned too (e.g., every bike runs the same general suspension - Fox Performance 34/36, OneUp bars, Code R brakes, etc. I get that the build kits all differ, but for HTs it makes sense to compare like with like to the extent possible.

 @andwrong: I do watch most of steve's videos, I just think it would be interesting to see other people with drastically different trails review some hardtails

 @Alexisjmorgan: I've been wondering if this would be possible. Have a control fork and component set and be able to move it bike to bike. Time sensitive and maybe need a couple sets of components and swap between but would be interesting to add even more controls. Like wheels down to the individual setup of a singular set down to spoke tension and it being the same fork with the same bushing movement and for there to be equal resistance in the hubs, etc.

 @NuclearNachos: *Hardcore ridged fat bikes.

 @mikekazimer: that's great, but why split everything into dentist level bikes and basic pleb sleds? Seeing as the vast majority would consider the middle tier gx/slx/xt builds, why not focus on those.
Ive reviewed my share of bikes back in ghe day and i get the appeal, and manufacturer preference too, of testing top of the line models but there's mo denying it is far less relevant.

 @foxinsocks: I would test the entry level 12 speed, the shimano deore variety. Best transmission per dollar.

 @BirdBikes Any way you can get an Aether9 AL to @mikekazimer to review?

 Sign me up.

 dogs are the best

 @mikelevy: If the Santa Cruz Blur TR was a dog, what breed? Also... what about the Rocky Element?

 I have two Dachshunds, they're very "downcountry" – long and low, with short-travel legs. Underdogging FTW.

 @mikelevy: Double Down Country!!!

 @NoahColorado: I have two mini schnauzers... They are "Loud Country"

 @NoahColorado: ride like bitches.

 @NoahColorado: I am also a serial dachshund owner - too. The also frequently have "over-personalities" say acting like 170 mm when they are only 100 mm. Very poor performance in rock gardens and steep tech. Not to mention the "Live Poop Valve" which typically opens in the house during poor weather. These doggies never perform in the rain.

 Ok, I got Sloughi to beat them all

 @NoahColorado: LOL! Great bit metaphorical mash up!!!

 @dldewar: These doggies never perform in the rain. Had a mini that used to look at me and gave a look akin to - "Do I look like a U-Boat to you?"

 *Napoleon Dynamite voice* Luckyyyyy... looking like June or so for mine, at the earliest. Enjoy it in good health!

 How did you manage that? When I asked, I was told I had to order it back in May to get one.

 @yonderboy: I called around and found a shop that had the bike I wanted on their Rocky booking. Put a down deposit and waited 30 days and now my bike arrives at my door monday.

 GROTBOX

 I looked at the 9.7 too vs the Element. The 9.7 is unobtainium.

 @dmackyaheard: yeah seems like real deciding factor with all these bikes is which ones you can actually get your hands on.

 @loudv8noises: Yeah pretty much. I called like 11 Trek shops, all they had were 9.8's for $6500, and I didn't want to spend that much, so I located a C50 Element... and boom... bought it.

 I went with the c50 element for the dual bottle cages, The better fork, Better brakes, and Dt rear hub. The price difference was worth it for me. Also rekon tires over the xr4s… i would have changed those to xr3s if i could.

Trek dealer offered to order me a 34 130 or a 34 sc for a discount but i would have to sell the stocker.

Dual bottle cages still won even tho i have that lyne dual bottle bracket but not sure how the storage door would have liked 2 bottles yanking on it.

I really see no point on the c70 for the price tho. C50 is a deal

 I have one. 6-12’ gaps, drops, it climbs fast and feels so good! Ride it everywhere but double blacks and bike parks here in BC.

 @Jvisscher: I just got a Spur at the end of this fall, I only got a couple rides on it but wondering if you have any insight on rear shock settings. I found that my rear end feels like it's just skipping off the top of chattery stuff. I guess really my only option is to run more sag and play with my rebound but thought I'd ask if you have any tuning tips!?

 @sledshed: If the bike is loosing traction after the impact and feels like its not gaining composure fast enough, decrease the amount of rebound clicks so that way the rear end can return faster to a full stroke position. If that does not solve it drop pressure until you achieve consistent damping in the rough section. sag percent currently?

 @tprojosh: thanks. Mine was set too soft and I have been working on getting my DH figured out at the park so ignoring this so far. Also i used to like a supple 160psi and now run 250 in the rear on the DH so this spur will change for the spring.

 @sledshed: they want 30% sag on that bike, but I feel like it is definitely too little psi for hard riding. Good for xc marathon and keeping the tires on the ground.

 @Jvisscher: Yeah it almost sounds like a more progressive shock tune would help the bike for your riding style.

 @tprojosh: no. I just need to keep it on my xc rides and use my enduro for enduro riding! Geometry just feels so good that it isn’t hard to take it past it’s designed use.

 While I loved my Tallboy 4, it's not really a downcountry bike anymore. Most people are riding them with 140mm forks and big tires. IMO the essence of a downcountry bike is taking a lightweight XC bike, jacking up the front travel by 10 or 20 mm, putting some 30mm internal rims on there, and picking the gnarlier line on the descent.

 @mikelevy - Just curious if you remember your ride impressions of the V4 Tallboy? How does it compare to the Element? The geometry is very similar with identical travel. Thanks!

 The new Element was designed with the BC bike race in mind. So the same niche "marathon XC" could be used to decride it.

 @agnostic: except for BC Bike Race the Element was fitted with a 120 mm fork and steeper head angle
so maybe Rocky will be coming out with an XC or Marathon spec'ed version of the Element one of these years

 @agnostic: Literally what I was thinking as I watched the Element review. It would be so good on BCBR. Man, the Element has come a long way from my 1998 Element Race with a coil shock!

 When Yeti updates the SB150 t0 470-480mm of reach on the medium, Richie Rude will still be the fastest guy out there.

 @Hardnacks: Richie Rude purposefully chose the medium over the large to get shorter reach, but as you mentioned he will still be the fastest guy out there, even with 420 mm reach ;-)

links didn't work above so try enduro-mtb.com/en/enduro-race-bike-mtb-review/#toc_erkenntnisse

 @taprider: maybe you missed my point. My point is, don’t look to racers to get what will be ideal for everyone. Racers are going to stick to old standards, because for them consistency is more important than anything else.

As for progression in geo for racers. There is also a reason why barelli upsized his GG after riding the grim donut. He’s way faster on a long bike. It’s not as black and white as people like to make it out.

 @Hardnacks: longer wheelbase vs relatively longer front centre are not equivalent

 @taprider: true for the donut, not so much when just upsizing his gg.

 I'm wanting a comparison too. I think it would've fit right in on this field test.

 Seems that the two most wanted tests are Blur TR vs Epic Evo and Element vs Spur. The two bookends of downcountry.

 The Epic Evo isn't as rowdy as some of the bikes in this test. I would say it's pretty similar to the Blur TR though. Basically a regular Epic with a longer travel fork and bigger tires.

 Have ridden the prior Blur TR and current Epic Evo. Pretty close feeling, I would imagine more so now with the Blur having flex stay in the rear instead of the VPP i rode.

 Add the Scott Spark RC into it too.

 I've just bought an epic evo to sit alongside my enduro as I wanted something better suited for xc missions. After 4 rides I'm really enjoying the epic. It's really fast and it can handle a lot more than you would expect of such a light short-travel bike. I can see it being the bike I end up riding the most as its so versatile and it makes the flat stuff and the climbs enjoyable.

 Also known as the Specialized "Out of Stock" or OOS for short.

 Giant went with: expensive, heavy, slow, you can have all 3!

 Also @mikelevy how would you compare the budget review Ripley AF to the new element

 I feel like the giant trance is definitely a full on trail bike, but since it has 120mm suspension they tried to squeeze it into a downcountry category.

 I hear ya. But what’s surprising is that They are saying the short travel trail bikes are better climbers and more efficient than the “downcountry” bikes.
But how do these short travel trail bikes compare to the Stumpjumper? Surely it climbs just as good and is similar weight.

 @Bay1: the more of these tests i see, the more happy i am i got a hold of a new stumpy. I considered a more "downcountry" The thing climbs so well but has more capability than any of these bikes, I ride it on long XC laps and enduro tracks accross alberta and BC and it just crushes everything. Super light too, mine is around 28lbs with no carbon other than the frame.

 Clones actually I believe

 I don't think an alloy spur is in the works. It uses a flex pivot so the entire suspension linkage would need changed to make it alloy.

 @HB208: Alloy flex stays have been around for at least 20 years, so that shouldn't stop them.

 @Genewich: A lifetime warranty probably does.....

 Why would you want a bike with that little travel that would be 30+ pounds? Aluminum bikes ARE HEAVY unless you have a dentist style income.

 his long shocked and overforked tallboy sure is sweet!

 @andraperrella27: that's definitely an aggressive trail bike in enduro bike clothing

 m.youtube.com/watch?v=dIjQxEOgqIo
He sure knows how to ride it tho. To me this is Downcountry! a xc style bike that is more fun to ride and you wear a T shirt and shorts and smash a beer.
Funny thing is that now the Tallboy is a short travel trail bike.

 I have the current Spark. And It's an absolute rocket. Also love the twinlock. It's my favorite feature on the bike and a game changer for me. If you like it, go for the Spark. If you don't go for the Blur.

 Meh, just Element v Spur

 Following vs Ripley vs Element vs Spur

 We did some of that here: www.pinkbike.com/news/the-pinkbike-podcast-episode-95-field-test-down-country-bike-debrief.html.

 @sjc115 Hello there - I mean, I think context is important in terms of weight. On anything but short travel bikes, the bikes we spend most of our time riding, then yeah, weight doesn't matter. However, I would contend on something with as little travel as 120mm it starts to become more important. For me, anyway. It's not that weight isn't always a metric of performance, but rather on a bike that's made for thrashing downhill, it's just far lower on my priorities.

In terms of how much bikes cost - yes, this is a very fair point. I'm not going to say it doesn't make our job easier as everything just works so well that it means you can isolate the frame characteristics easier. That said, if I have decent suspension, brakes and wheels then I couldn't give a monkeys what drivetrain is on there.

I wouldn't imagine much would change, but it's certainly not a bad idea! I'll have a think over it. I think it would be a forgone concusion though - probably not much slower but just a little less luxurious. I think sometimes the difference in components is like the interior of a car. It's not going to drastically change the experience of driving, and all interiors normally comprise of the same thing (a dashboard, a wheel, a few seats etc.) however, we all know the large difference in feel between an expensive interior over a cheaper one. It's not the end of the world at all, and won't get your from A to B quicker, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't nice.

For the record, we don't request the expensive bikes, but that's just what we're sent. Currently, with shortages just getting these bikes was hard enough. If I had my own bike, I would go Rockshox or Fox Elite suspension, good brakes, and then SLX. That would be great for me. Thanks for the suggestion.

 Ripley

 Too heavy. I love Banshee's. I had a Rune and a V3 Paradox, but the frame weight pushes it out of the category.

 Agreed, and Trek does sell a spec with a 130mm.

 Haha!

 Fat bikes are RAD!

 Hahaha, we need to take a stand against seriousness. Make mtb great again.

 Blizzard wins due to only bike actually updated since 2017/18 like every other brand

 I think the worst thing about delivering the Lux review was how much I like everyone I've ever crossed paths with at Canyon. Honestly, that f*cking sucked.

Sorry, but you're talking a load of nonsense. Where did I even say anything like "The carbon that went into the frame would be better spent making pencil points"? Honestly, what a load of absolute waffle.

I mean, we should leave it to the philosphers whether any opinion can ever be anything but subjective but here's what I think: Alot of this is subjective opinion, undoubtedly, but if you don't think any type of review is subjective then you're off your rocker. As a team, I would say we're pretty good at challenging eachother to make sure we can back any claim up. Any claim I had made at any point I could absolutely back up. And yes, I have an idea of what a downcountry or trail bike is - so do Canyon. I judge these bikes not only by what I think they should do but what the brand says they'll do. If they use words like Trail and downcountry then yes, it can't just be an XC bike. It has to actually do something different. I was equally critical of the Blur - but at least the Blur excels in other areas. If you rode them back to back you would feel it in an instant - it's not bias. The Lux is an okay bike, but if you think it doesn't have significant shortcomings, such as the ones I explained, then I don't think you can argue that you yourself aren't showing a great deal of bias by what we understand the needs of a modern mountain bike to be.

Thanks for reading all the same. Cheers.

 Reading the book "The Art of Thinking Clearly" right now. Your statements ring true. I have a Blur sitting in a box waiting for me to take possession of it. I too am suffering from the Sunk Cost Fallacy as I have an urge to get a Spur or Element I am fighting but at the end of the day - I will keep the Blur. The riding around Pemberton and Squamish may be completely different from your riding.

I have a feeling that the Lux would have done really well in other riding areas. My general impression based on being a long time Pinkbike follower is that neither reviewer liked the bike - period. Heck they completely crapped on Live Valve and the Giant. Giant and Fox likely throws the best parties...

Given the terrain they are riding -I can tell you that changes in Geo will make a noticeable but maybe not a huge difference.

I feel your pain!

 @AnBun I imagine you wrote this while wearing a scarf over a very high turtle neck and claiming everyone else in the Starbucks is derivative and bourgeoisie

 How would you recommend they deliver the goods differently?

 Don’t you hate it when your feet fall asleep from sitting on the can too long?

 I guess I should say thanks for writing up a reply and not dismissing me out of hand.

You stomped on that bike pretty hard. That statement about the pencils is the sentiment you leave the readers with, at least me. There are other reviewers who also have spent some time with a bike between their legs that found plenty to like about this bike (check out nsmb and flow).

This is not a judgement of your character as such, but all of you working in pb should come to terms with the fact that you are pushing a consumer culture. The articles generating traffic on this site seem always to be about tech-reviews. You have to buy this or that to be a REAL mountainbiker. I guess most of the readers in this here joint wont share my views on this - seems if you spend your time here and dollars on 10k+ bikes you`re already drinking the kool aid. Im part of the same hypocrisy, for sure. But at least my eyes are open.

On this review of the lux I think you missed the mark. And I think you did so because of biases towards a something that in your mind is what a real bike should be.

 @Cameltoby: Yeah, you can think of me like that guy, I do read a book from time to time. I also ride 6000-8000k each year, while being a dad and working fulltime with on-call 24h once a week and 72h every 4th or 5th weekend.

 @dldewar: I appreciated your post, always pleasant to see a fellow thinking man. I will enjoy my bike, thank you, it just made me annoyed how one-sided and negative this review came across.

 I.Can there be such a thing like "objective ride characteristic testing" when biking has a phenomenological aspect and do we want it? When reading such tests I myself am not only interested in comparing objective physical data like geometry, weight or KOMs but I am interested in the very subjective experience testers have while riding. There is a phenomenological aspect to riding bikes which numbers can’t display; it is a highly subjective experience which has to be communicated in exactly such tests, in exactly the way they did.

II.How could we know that one of the testers is cognitive biased (evidence)?

III.Speaking of Kahneman and Tverskys - Could it be that your hermeneutics of suspicion are the result of the bad lux review (it cannot be what may not be)?

IV.It would be a good thing to increase consumer maturity, maybe pb could to a podcast on that topic (manipulative marketing, biases,…)

 Hey, don't sweat it, you must have done some thinking and analysis before choosing? Build a spreadsheet, work out your RAD, etc etc.

I was split between the Blur and the Lux, and if they were the same price I'd pick the SC as I've brought their bikes before and have been impressed.

They're £2000 apart though, and the Blur would - maybe - have arrived in March. I've had two months already on the Lux.

There are facts you can't get around though, the geo means if you've not got gangly legs you'll have to run a short dropper.

I got mine for 90% mellow (in terrain, not heart rate) XC days, and 10% trail centres where I have to chase my buddies on 150mm+.

If Henry's reading this, don't change, is rare to see strong opinions voiced in bike reviews, I assume because some reviewers are scared of being blanked..... What did you say to Evil??!

 @Cirest: Good points.
I would add:
V Location matters. A bike is a tool for a purpose and the purpose is a combination of terrain + time.

VI Body type. I wonder to what degree their body type (proportions) influence their impression. I guess that's why I like META so much, the testers/reviewers they have are very different from each other in terms of build and physique.

 @Cirest: Thank you for picking up the gauntlet. Allow me to retort.

I: No, in my opinion that is a tough thing to do. My issue is that pb performs pseudoscience with efficiency testing, timed descents etc., when in reality what you are getting here is the subjective opinion of the reviewer. That opinion is shaped by external pressures, and the industry is a strong force as such. What`s on sale here is identity as a MTBer, and pb is telling you what you need in your garage to be a cool kid. The reviewer in question have legitimacy as a good judge of bike characteristics, and used that legitimacy to take a flame thrower to a perfectly fine bike. I think he`s wrong, other reviewers have different opinions as well. If you want to pick your bike by what pb says you`ll end up with bikes costing around 10k usd, and of course the stylish clothing on display. Then of course, you`ll need N+1 for those extra gnarly trails, or a dedicated race machine for the xc races and BCBR. That kind of subjective opinion doesnt do much for me.

II We are all cognitive biased. Seeing how you know your way around a dictionary I would assume you are of the same opinion. It is really hard not to be biased, nigh on impossible. In medical research this happens all the time, and the stakes there are somewhat higher than what kind of bike you buy.

III. Absolutely. I would say you are spot on, and I`m not apologetic about it either. However, this was merely the trigger. My resentments about consumerism and how the bike industry makes you buy new gizmos every year goes way deeper. Again, I dont like that reputable bike journos like pb are pushing this agenda.

IV. No doubt.

 Look here, it doesnt matter. We`re all worshipping the same god here - capitalism. If we had any human decency we wouldnt spend 6k+ USD on bikes - we`d give that money to NGOs that feed starving people. The world is messed up as it is, how about we leave the hate behind. Im sorry pb didnt like the lux. I hope that some of my commentary might inspire a change of agenda, but I`m not one for optimism, really.

Cheer up. GO ride.

 @AnBun: It has been shown to be linked financially and organizationally to the entities which cause the problems the NGO's are set up to solve.
One of the richest (filthy rich) people I met on a dating site was a woman who set up a charity for sick babies.

Everyone who knows her as the charity founder, thinks of her as some saint because they aren't aware the artwork in her mansion costs more than the equipment her fundraising has purchased.

 @sonuvagun: Yes, there are some rotten apples, ey? There are reputable NGOs though that can document where and how the money are spent. If you have a moral-philosophical interest in this I suggest you read Peter Singers "a life you can save" (or listen, the book is a free audiobook podcast). I think Singer makes a strong case for his brand of utilitarianism. Singers problem though is ignoring peoples psychology (or biases if you`d like - ref. my previous rant). Although his arguments are strong, it doesnt always play that way in the real world.

 @AnBun: Peter Singer, eh? Noted.
I think most of us have a very low level of empathy for total strangers whose existence we aren't even aware of. We know there are people in dire straits, but we don't "know" them. If we were programmed (psychologically) to seek out those who are in need then the world would never be as it is.
We're selfish, it's in our nature. We're tribal and fearful, with a bias towards the glass being half-empty. So any thrill that frees our spirit is sure to draw us in.
I mean none of this to refute anything you're saying or conclusions you may have....probably I'm saying nothing that hasn't been said before.
Cheers

 @sonuvagun: I think you're onto something there. From the looks of it you seem like a good bloke to have a beer with. Cheers

 @AnBun: sounds like a session

 @henryquinney:
I wish to restate my position in manner-of-factly and polite prose without insulting you. Meaning I`ll avoid the argumentative hyperbole. This thread is days old now, but I`ll leave my closing remark here for posterity, as they say.

We, humans, are not objective. We are all biased, this is inherent in the human condition. I dont really feel the need to be argumentative here, the evidence is just overwhelming. I made the reference to Kahneman because his book was a NY times best seller, and perhaps known amongst pb journalists and readers. I`ll give you another example from pop culture; moneyball. Yes, with Brad Pitt. Like every movie, it seems, its based on a book. In this case by a journalist who`s taken an interest in biases (and also written a nice biography of Kahneman and Tversky), Michael Lewis. I encourage you read his stuff, its both engagingly fun, as well as educational.

All of the bikes in the first round of the field test are, talking ballpark here, similar. Its 29ers with droppers and some front and rear suspension. It`s not like we`re comparing hardtails to endurobikes. It is my contention that they are more or less similar in performance, but they will feel different when riding them. My stand on this is that the lux was undeservedly bashed. What got my gall flowing was the summary video where one of the Mike`s tried to be diplomatic and offer the lux as a good bike for someone not riding in your backyard in Pemberton, but you and Mike#2 shut him down hastily. You said: This bike does nothing well, it doesnt climb, its not efficient, it doesnt descend. Now, having bought this bike and taking real joy from riding it, that struck a chord. I became emotionally invested, and that engendered the angry post.

I cant say I didnt mean it though. It is a profound thing in human psychology to form an identity, and most of us have several, e.g. father, husband, employee, bike rider. Consumerism sells identity, quite successfully too, and I think reviews like this propagate consumerism. This is a powerful machine and its so easy be a little cog in the machinery without even noticing it. Really, it just happens by itself. Our psychology and the development of factory production of consumables is whats makes capitalism such an enormous engine for economic growth - its what make your line of work even possible. I`m not saying that`s inherently a bad thing.

I`ll stop here without going further into the philosophical implications of this, not to mention the sustainability problem and environmentalist perspective. I for one I`m starting to really not like what I see around me. Incidentally, one escape from this is riding bikes. And yes, I have an expensive bike (two, actually - but combined they`re still less $$$ than the most expensive DC-bike in the test). Yeah, mea culpa. I did say I was a hypocrite and I pay for that with self loathing from time to time. I try to keep it balanced though. My classic roadie is ten years old and I pedal that thing around 3000 km every year. I`ll keep doing that till the frame snaps.

Heres to a better world. Cheers.

 @AnBun: Yes, so much of what you said is true and I think there's a lot of common ground between us. I think the only way to get anything close to objectivity is to accept the fact that our experiences are all subjective if that makes sense and to embrace that acknowledgment and challenge it.

I'm always happy to explain things but please just ask instead of taking what could be perceived as a slightly more damning tone. However, my small notes would be this.

Sadly, it's absolutely my job to distinguish the differences between those bikes. A lot of that means that it's in comparison to the other bikes in its genre. In that setting, if you wanted a down-country bike, and a lot of people don't, it does come off worse in some of those comparisons. But the Lux is still a 2022 mountain bike - it's not that it's going to blow up if you ride something gnarly - it just didn't come off as well in our comparison, which involved almost solely back to back testing.

As stated though, if you wanted to ride this bike on singletrack that isn't demanding loads of spring rate, you could probably make the bike far more comfortable. That's really important. Like the Blur, for 120mm, it should at least be comfortable. I never found the desired level of comfort because of the bottom outs I was experiencing on our test track.

In regards to my comments about "off road bicyclist" this comment was the product of conversations Mike Levy and I had during the week. I'm not saying it's only suitable for that but a lot of people probably just want a good value bike that they can see the countryside on. Mike took it as if I was trying to be insulting but I genuinely wasn't. Lots of people just love the great outdoors and do half mountain biking mixed with gravel biking. And that's great. More power to them. This bike isn't as slung out as a true XC race bike in terms of the cockpit and could be great for that, if that's what your after. I actually spent a reasonable amount of time on an XC Lux and, if you want to just get outside and enjoy it, then the Lux Trail is, I believe, slightly more accomodating in terms of fitment (if you can get the sizing right).

The bit that got my back up, if I can just be very direct here, was the assertion that I give some brands a fairer shake than others. This is simply not true. That's not to say that I don't like certain products less than others but what brand they come from is of no odds to me. I obviously have no idea what you do for a living but if you're anything like me you'll find being called "bad" tolerable as it's something you are probably already aware of in lots of ways and are really motivated to improve. This is exactly how I see my presenting. However, to be called biased or disingenuous just f*cking hurts because it's more of a comment on your character than how you're performing in the role. Honestly, the day before I got called a "liar" for my review on that Canyon and it's just annoying and I think wholly unfair. At the end of the day, we're all people.

Thank you for taking the time for the comment and, yes, absolutely. Cheers.

 Would be interesting to see how much extra $$$ buys you in the timed tests.

I think the availability issues are the biggest problem though, so many bikes that would be interesting to compare that aren't here, Scalpel SE, Scott Spark etc etc

 Plus TB4!

 Hello there - thanks. They were a ton of fun to make and feels great now that they're out there. I did experiment with positioning. However, with those bikes already being slightly on the shorter side it was a hard balance to get the height without eating into reach. It is a personal preference thing though undoubtedly. Thanks.

 Good point. You go back about one third you go up. With risers you just go up. I will eat crow on this one. I got a XL Blur based on that shortest top tube. Santa Cruz to me is half a size down.

Keep up the great work. I really like the fact that you freely express your opinions for debate. @henryquinney: