We hucked 32 bikes to flat in 2021, everything from lightweight XC hardtails to high single pivot enduro machines. So brace your ankles and enjoy 32 bikes bottoming out in glorious 1000 FPS slow motion! I
@Trudeez: everything I've owned from them has been rock solid FWIW. and their sales/service team is super nice and easy to reach. No, they're not paying me to say that
It's pretty amazing to me to see the chains bouncing around as much as they do and still staying on the chainring. With narrow-wide chainrings I take for granted that my chain isn't going to fall off, but it's very cool to see how well they do their job.
@Tmackstab: That guide keeps the chain properly catching on the first few teeth of the ring which I believe stops the chain bounce while pedaling - resulting in the next link to be picked up by the chainring missing and subsequently derailing the entire front ring scenario. Also if it bounces off the bottom of your ring there is a (debateable) chance that it will re-rail itself on the next pedal stroke if the chain is still properly interfaced on those first few teeth.
@Tmackstab: Upper chain guide makes sense because if the chain come off at the bottom, it will come back om the chainring the next time the cranks are turned.
@minesatusker: Exactly my thought - it was interesting to see how much variance there appeared to be in clutch tension on the Sram mechs. That one in particular looked like it was freely swinging forwards even after the chain inertia had let up.
Also looks like fork chassis have strengthened a lot in the last generation or two. In the first ever PB huck to flat the amount of fork flex was the most eye opening thing, doesn’t appear to be as dramatic now even though head angles are mostly even slacker.
What type of crank is the one that snapped from a huck to flat so I know never to buy that brand. Imagine having your crank snap while riding a steep bike park double black with successive hits.
Praxis. It’s not uncommon for their carbon cranks to break.
Also RaceFace doesn’t make very good carbon cranks. They are very prone to breaking (all of them. Next SL, Next R, and SixC).
For carbon cranks the only ones I can really recommend are the SRAM X01 (as well as the DH variant) and Truvativ Descendant Carbon. They are the strongest carbon cranks on the market.
Also the X01 and XX1 cranks are identical except for the fact that the X01 has a foam inside which adds ~13g (negligible) and makes it much stronger. And somehow cheaper as well. Same thing with the Descendant and Stylo cranks. Idk about the GX ones tho. The Descendant is the exact same as the X01 except that it uses stainless steel pedal inserts rather than aluminum. (Same thing with Stylo/XX1).
I don’t know much about e*thirteen’s carbon cranks but I have never heard of them snapping so I guess they’re good.
@louiefriesen: Interestingly I have only broken a SRAM XO1 while my 2 Next R cranks have taken quite a beating. One on a hardtail that has handled good chunk at speed and upwards of 10' drops. I am careful about not scraping the surface at all on either.
So why bother with carbon for these critical parts. Look at the sharp point, this could easily have gone somewhere into his leg, especially considering a failure like this would have you fall over/on-top of the bike.
@louiefriesen: I have run X01 on my last 3 bikes with no trouble,and I'm heavy and hard on gear,just recently broke the left eyelet out of one, luckily on a very simple jump following my wife.no injuries thankfully but if it had snapped the day before on the nasty jank I was riding I would have eaten a very large shit sandwich, probably equivalent to a subway foot long?. anyhow,back to xt for me!
Seeing as how the tires compress and rebound much faster than the bikes’ shock or fork in these slo-mo videos, does it have any real world consequence out on the trail? It would seem that whatever suspension curve the frame engineers work into their designs don’t necessarily account for the tires’ reactions to these big hits, given that we can see that distinct pause partway through the bikes’ travel until the tires compress a second time after the initial hit.
I've noticed this in earlier HTF videos. The tyres rebound before suspension is fully compressed. So at some point the fork and shock are fighting against the additional force of the tyres springing back.
Interestingly, this has been the motivation behind development of Pro-core and some of the tire insert brands... not just pinch flat protection, but making your tires and suspension play together better. I believe they run cush-core in these videos, but obviously it doesn't completely dampen the tire rebound.
That said, full-compression huck-to-flat is a very specific scenario that doesn't occur very often unless you're seeking out that kind of thing. I also recall the PB staff saying they run pretty high pressures for these huck-to-flat videos (>30 psi), which will dramatically affect how fast the tires rebound and mess with the suspension compression rate.
It looks as though almost all the duallies go through 2 stages of compression. Like there's the initial impact and shock compression, then they pause for a bit, then proceed to go through their remaining 25% of travel. It looks most minimal on the single pivot Starling.
Yeah I'm interested why this is too. Is it because they interact with the rider's reflexes? like the first stage is taking impact of bike and rider before the rider responds, then a big pause while the rider soaks up the hit, finally suspension again for whatever is left?
@sideshowb: Two reasons, one is that the rear tyre compresses, rebounds then compresses again during the time that it takes for the suspension to compress, so the wheel is moving up and down as the bike travels down. That means the speed of suspension compression is very high as the wheel is coming up while the bike goes down, but then drops again as the wheel starts coming down into the tyre again, so you see what looks like a pause. The other reason is to do with the rider as you say, but not really reflexes, more just that there's a lot of slack between the bike and the riders weight, particularly as you are dropping toward the ground. So by the time the riders feet are mashed into the pedals and the rider has started to resist the impact, the riders weight is really only fully acting down onto the bike in the very last bit of the compression (watch his legs and ankles), so there is a bit of compression from the weight of the bike landing on it's own, then the suspension is just about to start recovering when the riders weight really hits the bike and pushes it all the way through to bottom.
The tire rebounds so quick, the tire almost looses its contact to the ground, creating a counterforce to the downmovement. So there is no force reacting towards the shock, hence no shockmovement. Once the tire reacts to the downforce again, shock starts moving.
I think that's how the rider is landing with his weight shift as he comes down. You'll notice that when he lands rear first, the flex on the fork is much greater.
IMO it shows that really stiff suspension is faster as the bikes are almost stopping as they go through the fork travel only to continue with momentum on bottom outs... Times this "stalling" by the 1000s of hits in a race run and the time lost would add up significantly...
Late to the party i know,but im stuck in hospital watching everything to relieve the boredom,ive watched this a few times and never noticed,on most landings jason is on the brakes,some not,and he brakes to fully compress the front fork,just wondering .
Amazing to see how much the single crown forks flex compared to the triple clamp forks. I wish more companies would make smaller lighter triple clamp forks for enduro and trail riding.
It's wild to see the seat stays flex on the Santa Cruz Blur. I'm assuming that flex is designed into the stays to add compliance. Also cool to see how some suspension goes right through its travel while others have a second push at the end of the stroke. @Jason, could you feel these separate stages of the rear travel?
Yeah, exactly my thought. Seemed to be the only bike where the seat stays flexed, or at least the only bike where it was visible. Even if it is by design, would it be too much to think that those would eventually snap?
Norco Range gets the prize for weirdest imagery! Because the lower link is hidden behind the left crank, it looks like the chainstays are not attatched to the front triangle. :-D
Awesome and fascinating video, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the movement of multiple suspension designs. Also interesting to see the Cushcore come to life in some of those tires....
That's a new feature on the new Trance X, supposed to give you that chainless ride feel. Another positive side effect is that the chain keeps smooth by bouncing of rocks and the ground.
If I remember right, they were using a single set of wheels for all of these bottom out tests and the BMC set up for rotors so they just took them off the test wheelset.
Interesting to note that everyone rags on SRAM for not having a strong enough clutch on their Eagle derailleurs, but the video shows the Shimano derailleurs are the ones shown flopping around like ragdolls.
Today I watched for how hard a slap the rear mech took and how much chain 'wave' there was and how close the chain was to coming off. I didn't think it would be so varied.
went back and watched a different video...you mention 35psi...nobody actually rides at 35psi though...probably nowhere near that...I wonder about adjusting that to say 25psi for future?...be interesting to see how many more rims actually contact the ground.
youtu.be/XyAbIpOO0Zs
Rhetti, you're hired. Here's your Outside+ subscription signing bonus.
Jason's ankle okay after that one?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmUsOcZQUvE
Upper chain guide makes sense because if the chain come off at the bottom, it will come back om the chainring the next time the cranks are turned.
Also looks like fork chassis have strengthened a lot in the last generation or two. In the first ever PB huck to flat the amount of fork flex was the most eye opening thing, doesn’t appear to be as dramatic now even though head angles are mostly even slacker.
Also RaceFace doesn’t make very good carbon cranks. They are very prone to breaking (all of them. Next SL, Next R, and SixC).
For carbon cranks the only ones I can really recommend are the SRAM X01 (as well as the DH variant) and Truvativ Descendant Carbon. They are the strongest carbon cranks on the market.
Also the X01 and XX1 cranks are identical except for the fact that the X01 has a foam inside which adds ~13g (negligible) and makes it much stronger. And somehow cheaper as well. Same thing with the Descendant and Stylo cranks. Idk about the GX ones tho. The Descendant is the exact same as the X01 except that it uses stainless steel pedal inserts rather than aluminum. (Same thing with Stylo/XX1).
I don’t know much about e*thirteen’s carbon cranks but I have never heard of them snapping so I guess they’re good.
As someone else said, Gwin broke one in practice causing an ankle injury which some would argue has completely changed the trajectory of his career.
e13s are great www.pinkbike.com/photo/14944026
That said, full-compression huck-to-flat is a very specific scenario that doesn't occur very often unless you're seeking out that kind of thing. I also recall the PB staff saying they run pretty high pressures for these huck-to-flat videos (>30 psi), which will dramatically affect how fast the tires rebound and mess with the suspension compression rate.
It looks most minimal on the single pivot Starling.
The other reason is to do with the rider as you say, but not really reflexes, more just that there's a lot of slack between the bike and the riders weight, particularly as you are dropping toward the ground. So by the time the riders feet are mashed into the pedals and the rider has started to resist the impact, the riders weight is really only fully acting down onto the bike in the very last bit of the compression (watch his legs and ankles), so there is a bit of compression from the weight of the bike landing on it's own, then the suspension is just about to start recovering when the riders weight really hits the bike and pushes it all the way through to bottom.
I would be more concerned about smashing the stay into a rock in a crash, but that’s a concern with any bike regardless of designed-for flex.
You can use a Sender Ramp for all your hucking needs...to flat!? Of course it goest to flat!
Couldn't help thinking it looked like they went a bit gingerly on the Capra/Crackra compared ot the others.
I'm 16 stone or 100+kg and will bottom the eff out of the bikes.
Also I enjoy a good huck to flat.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmUsOcZQUvE
Isn’t it obvious?