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Video: CathroVision Track Walk - Fort William DH World Cup 2019
May 31, 2019
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Scotland has lived up to its reputation and put on a banquet of moisture and rocks for racers this weekend. Ben Cathro takes a look at the track and checks out the new Cannondale DH bike.
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(May 30, 2019 at 20:02)
I can't believe the level of insight and rider access Cathie is getting. This is the best thing on PB
(May 31, 2019 at 11:56)
The rider interviews are getting better and better - they really added to this episode (if that's what you call it...).
Red Bull sign him up!
(May 30, 2019 at 14:55)
Cathrovision is my gossip girl
(May 31, 2019 at 2:32)
Please don't try to bum her/him.
(May 30, 2019 at 18:29)
Cannondale. Talk nerdy to me. I want it deep.
(May 31, 2019 at 6:46)
More Cannondale tech! “Just like a fork, one spring leg, one damper leg”
(May 30, 2019 at 16:05)
Every body should be paying attention to what Cannondale is trying to do. The challenge has always been with a single coil over or air spring damper is both work best with there own unique leverage curve. Data acquisition will be even more important now to make the most out of it. Without it setups will get way out of wack quickly.
(May 30, 2019 at 18:39)
At 16:04 Finn saying he gets a lot more grip with the Maxxis haha
(May 30, 2019 at 18:47)
Could Cannondale not just use a linear rate linkage with progressively wound spring to achieve the same goal?
(May 30, 2019 at 19:22)
: Creating progressive rate coil springs with specific load curve is easy said than done. Than changing that curve for the riders personal preferences and at how many different average rates and you will end up with an unlimited number of combinations.
(May 30, 2019 at 22:05)
: Why do you say that progressive coil springs are easier said than done?
I'm not familiar with the state of the art in bike coil mnfr, however I am familiar with other simple mass manufacturing and the gem that is a CNC wire forming machine.
Its interesting to think about. Isolated damping leverage is not represented in progressive-coil only solution. In pursuing that: are there ways to modify a damping curve without a separate linkage system?
Wonder if a compressible disk with holes for oil-pass thru that dilate under high velocity would do it?
Back on thread topic:
I'm not ruling this bike out by any stretch; however, given Cannondale's other flagship suspension product is a single stanchion fork, it makes you wonder how much marketing and engineering handshake over the product specifications.
(May 30, 2019 at 23:01)
: It is not hard to produce a progressive rate coil spring but to get the curve to be what you want with the beginning and ending rate where you want it in the envelope available is. Than to produce all the combos that would be requested because of every riders differences in preferences. There are many ways to skin a cat. Some might do a better job but are very difficult to pull off. As with any thing when you are trying to squeeze out that last 10% it might take 100% more effort. Will C-Dale ever go into production with it is a big question. They do have a history of pushing the limits. This is not the first time they have gone down this road. I would say out of the larger MFG's C-Dale has probably been the one that works the farthest out side of the norms.
(May 31, 2019 at 2:36)
: “a compressible disk with holes for oil-pass thru that dilate under high velocity would do it ?”
Brilliant! Had a laugh at that. ;-)
(May 31, 2019 at 3:26)
: well put on the difficulties of using a progressive rate spring. Also, it would still effect the damper the same way, as the softer initial spring rate would compress faster than the harder end rate therefore creating the same variation in damper shaft velocity that they're trying to avoid.
(May 31, 2019 at 10:23)
: you really nailed it with your comment. I also tend to be fairly skeptical with the approach when thinking of the Cannondale Lefty fork
(May 31, 2019 at 15:09)
: a genuine progressive rate coil Spring must have variable wire thickness through the length of the Spring. I've never seen an actual progressive rate MTB Spring. There are lots of claimed progressive springs, but merely putting a few turns closer together doesn't make it progressive - the rate comes from the wire thickness and length of wire in the spring.
As to separating Spring and damper, race cars and bikes don't do this, and it would seem super difficult to tune. You will move from an over damped Spring to under damped through its travel. Desirable? I couldn't see why. I hope we learn more from Cannondale techs.
(May 31, 2019 at 15:18)
: You could also very the mean diameter as well as a combo of two different rate springs stacked. You are correct pitch angle is a result of the total amount of material used and free length. There is also a point where too much pitch leading into very little or no pitch will cause the material go from torsional forces to acting as a lever. As long as we are only referring to a given modulus.
(May 30, 2019 at 16:52)
I would love to see that in depth video talking about what's going on with the Cannondale!
(May 31, 2019 at 17:07)
Would love to see more on it too.
(May 30, 2019 at 15:26)
Thanks for the tip on Matt Walker cathro. Fantasy team updated
(May 31, 2019 at 6:20)
I'm like a freaking curse. I put Luca Shaw on my team just prior to last race, then he finds out he has a broken collar bone. Yesterday morning, I put Matt Walker on my team and this comes out. I'm going to quit DH Fantasy to keep from hurting any more riders.
(May 31, 2019 at 7:41)
: Add Gwin’s bike thief to your team. Let’s use your powers for good.
(May 31, 2019 at 7:43)
: I liked Gwin's take on the theft. I actually said something similar when Lenosky's bikes were stolen. REEB hadn't had that much publicity in... ever... probably.
(May 30, 2019 at 17:27)
Nice catch on the tire Finn... Wouldn't want to make give those non Spec tires any extra credit
(May 30, 2019 at 19:49)
@cathro - Yes, can you do a more in-depth Cannondale tech geek out.
(May 31, 2019 at 2:39)
Please let it be! Moar nerding is needed for the people, well me at least
(May 31, 2019 at 4:49)
64 spring and damper options on the Canondale, while over at Intense, Gwin cannot decide between L & XL
(May 31, 2019 at 7:03)
He decided on large weeks ago lol
(May 31, 2019 at 7:20)
: haha, I was more poking fun at Canondale. I hum and ha over my sag
(May 31, 2019 at 8:24)
When I first watched his reports I thought ‘who is this oddball trying to create a YouTube channel. How wrong was I, he is fantastic and his insight is amazing. He deserves to be a part of the full coverage for Red Bull. While Rob W and Claudio can do commentary we need Mr C to explain tech to the viewers
(May 31, 2019 at 18:11)
Claudio can do commentary? If that's what you want to call it...
(May 31, 2019 at 9:13)
These bikes have 2 shocks. Most bikes only have one.. does this mean its better?
Well, its one better. Most bikes bottom out on 1 shock.. where do you go from there? Where?
If we need that extra push off the cliff, you know what we do... On more shock.
(May 31, 2019 at 11:55)
To be fair that was about my level of understanding! Long live Spinal Tap!
(May 31, 2019 at 1:06)
"Well, that's above my pay grade"
(May 30, 2019 at 21:39)
Not enough rain or midges here, I'm going to Fort William today.
(May 31, 2019 at 3:04)
Lucky basterd - have fun
(May 30, 2019 at 17:25)
How does it manage to rain so much up there?! I live in Wales, not far south, and it’s been gorgeous today. Bone dry dusty tracks, well tidy. Jocks must be rain dancing.
(May 31, 2019 at 12:30)
“not far south”
(May 30, 2019 at 15:05)
Ah, been waiting all week for a dose of Cathro.
(May 30, 2019 at 14:56)
I love me some Cathrovision!
(May 31, 2019 at 5:47)
Really insightful trackwalk. And I like the Cathrovision logo.
(May 31, 2019 at 8:53)
Love Wynn Tv but Ben's version is way more informative. Great insight into the DH scene.
(May 31, 2019 at 10:33)
The Cannondale guy really struggled in trying to explain the benefits of their wonky shock. Not sure I see the benefits or the results on that contraption but time will tell
(May 31, 2019 at 22:23)
@cannondale: let’s combine the air spring and damper on the lefty fork and split them on the shock. Alright....great idea
(May 30, 2019 at 20:03)
GB autocorrect + mobile = Cathie. Sorry Cathro
(May 30, 2019 at 17:16)
MTB shocks are so bad that now we need two of them? : )
(May 30, 2019 at 19:39)
Keep in mind that when the term shock is used that really only refers to it being a damper. A shock can also be the mounting location for the spring "coil over". What we traditionally have on the rear of a bike. There are not two shocks the device that the spring is mounted to has no damping control. However the bike can be ran with a traditional fully functioning coil over shock. Think about a car that the spring is not mounted over the damper. An in depth interview would be interesting but it really is not all that complicated. They are just trying to create a system where shock shaft speed is only influenced by the impact forces that are created by the tire to ground/obstacle not a changing leverage rate.
(May 31, 2019 at 14:21)
: thx for the explanation. I honestly never thought about vehicle suspension as anything other than a single coil over and damper.
(May 31, 2019 at 3:34)
(May 31, 2019 at 6:14)
nice DHF on finn's new demo
(May 31, 2019 at 2:51)
Nerd me up buttercup
(May 30, 2019 at 14:50)
Below threshold threads are hidden
(May 30, 2019 at 14:40)
Noooo!!!! So boring and over analyzed.
(May 30, 2019 at 14:48)
Silence, infidel! Long live CathroVision ™
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